January 27, 2025 • 50 mins
Beauty is in the eye of the modelizer…
Models and Mortals shocks us with some truly controversial behavior!
But, behind the hidden cameras, we can relate to not always loving what we see in the mirror.
Kristin reveals the adlibs, tricks to eating and acting, and mistaken identity.
And yes, that IS Gabriel Macht from Suits!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi. I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are
you a Charlotte? Hi? Hi, everyone, We're back. This is
Are You a Charlotte? And we are now looking and
at season one, episode two. It's called Models and Mortals.
Oh my goodness, me, I watched this last night. I'm
(00:24):
still in shock. I have more questions than I have answers.
There's a lot to dig into here. I honestly just
don't even really, I really am not sure what to
say about. This episode is super fascinating, though, So let
me just kind of go back in time a little bit.
I Charlotte only has one scene in this episode, and
(00:47):
it's a really fun and funny scene that I do
have a lot of memories about. And someone asked me, oh,
did you remember that you only had one scene? And
I didn't remember. And part of the reason that I
didn't remember is that one of the things, and I
don't really know if we're the only show who does those,
we probably aren't. But one of the interesting things about
how we film, and this is still true to this
(01:08):
day on and just like that, is that we crossboard
two episodes at a time, so we're always filming two
episodes simultaneously. And part of the reason for that is
that locations in New York City are so expensive. So
let's say you get a restaurant for the day. That
takes you know, a lot of money. You have to
get into all kinds of arrangements. You have to arrange
(01:29):
with the Mayor's Office of Location Management for parking and
for all the trucks, and it's a whole big to do, right, So,
if you get a location, you would divide it up,
Like let's say you got a restaurant, you might film
in front of the restaurant, and then you might also
film a different scene from a different episode inside the restaurant,
So you know, you're kind of cross purposing those actual locations.
(01:53):
So when you're filming, you're filming two episodes at once. Now,
sometimes it gets out of hand, Like I remember one time,
maybe season three of Sex and the City. Towards the end,
we had all these unfinished scenes and we had I
think four units filming, and we had to make T shirts,
different colored T shirts for the different crews on the
(02:14):
different units and all the actors. We just had to
run from soundstage to soundstage to do the different things
that we needed to do to finish the episode like
that was crazy times, and then just his past year
on and just like that. I think there was a
time when the call sheet had six different episodes listed
for Charlotte of things that I had to finish. So
this particular episode, I have a different storyline for the
(02:35):
next episode that I was also doing, so it's not
like I was just sitting around the whole time. But
I also didn't really remember that I only had the
one episode and my thoughts on that, which, you know,
I don't know if we're ever going to find out,
you guys, why they tried to demote me, As one
of our current writers said, because you know, the funny
thing about the reaction, I mean, there's many funny things
(02:57):
about the reaction to the first two podcasts. One is
that a lot of my closest friends don't even know
the stories that I told you guys. They're like, what
you know? And some of our current you know, very
beloved crew members and writers and directors and everybody don't
know that story. So everyone's just like, why what happened?
What happened? I don't know if we'll ever know. I
(03:17):
really don't know. I don't know the answer to it,
I feel when I look back on it now from
the perspective of twenty seven years later or whatever, having
read Candace's book, which was based on Candace's column, And
the thing that's important for this particular episode to remember
is that Candace's column in The Observer called Sex and
(03:38):
the City was I believe, based in true stories that
she was hearing and or participating in, but also hearing
around town that were true stories, right, So she wouldn't
use the names. She might imply who they were, so
that if you were, like you know, ran in this
circle of friends in New York, you might know who
the stories were, but you might also not know and
(04:00):
just you know, read it for some interesting like social archaeology.
I guess maybe I'm going to try not to say
like so much, because I did see the comment from
one of our listeners that I say like too much.
So I just said, like, I'm really sorry. I'm going
to do my best. It's not going to be easy
because I'm just sitting here by myself yaking, okay, but
(04:22):
thank you for being with me and understanding. So Candace
is writing this column in the nineties in New York
City and she is writing things she's hearing happened, or
was there for when they happened, or both or neither,
I guess, but you know, that's the genesis of all
of this. So when I watched this episode, episode two,
(04:43):
which was the first episode we filmed once the show
had been picked up, I'm assuming that this really insane
storyline about this character that Gabriel Mock plays Barkley film
these models. I'm just going to go with the fact
(05:03):
that this is something Candice heard about that happened and
put in her column and thus ended up in her book,
and thus ended up in our show because Darren Starr
optioned her book, Sex and the City. So that's what
I'm going to go with. I'm going to go with
the fact that they didn't just make this up or
whatever for the show. I'm not sure because at this
(05:24):
point also the important thing to remember for me is
that the writers were all in Los Angeles. They did
not come We did not know them very unlike how
the show went on to develop, where the writers were
with us every day. The writers were part of our lives.
They were very close friends of ours, still are a
very close friend of ours. You're going to be meeting
(05:44):
them along the way. They're wonderful, these particular group of writers.
Some of them I would not know them if I
saw them. If I ran into them and they told
me I wrote an episode of Sex and City for
the first season, I would just say, like, okay, I
would believe them, because I don't know what they look like.
We were in Los Angeles after the pilot, Darren, myself,
(06:05):
and then strangely Sarah Jessica. This is a funny story.
I was renting a house at the time in a
little canyon in the west side of Los Angeles, not
a particularly popular canyon, and one day I had gotten
a puppy and I was walking down the street and
we are in the waiting period of waiting to hear
(06:25):
if HBO was going to pick the show up, and
they had I feel like they had eighteen months to
decide something like that, maybe just a year. Whatever. It
was felt like eternity. And I would call my poor
manager Dave every day and be like, did you hear anything,
did you hear anything? Did you hear anything? And then
I would call my lawyer Jason, and I would say
did you hear anything? Did you hear anything? And It
(06:46):
just went on and on and on the waiting, and
sometimes I think I would call Darren Starr say like,
did you hear anything? I wasn't close enough to Sara
Jessica at this point to have her number to be
calling a buggy herm, which is probably a good thing.
But one day walking down the street in this little
neighborhood that I've rented a house in, and I'm walking
my new puppy, and who drives down this empty street
with Sara Jusica Parker in a rented Lexus And I'm like, hey,
(07:11):
you know what I mean? And she's like, Hi, what
are you doing here? And I said, I just rented
the house over here. What are you doing here? And
she said, oh, Matthew's here doing a movie, so I'm
here with him while he's filming this movie. And I said,
did you hear anything? She was like no, and she
didn't seem she didn't seem as anxious about it as
I was. And I was like, what do you think
is happening? You know what was going on? And she goes, oh,
(07:33):
I don't know, you know, I don't know. And I said,
what don't you wanted to be picked up? And she
said something like yeah, but I could tell she was
just trying to please me, you know what I mean.
I thought, oh, no, Sara Jusica doesn't want to do it.
I don't know. And I do think now, you know,
knowing her all these many, many years, that this was
back to her kind of reticence to being committed to
(07:56):
a show. Because, as I told you before, we did
have these massive, in your long contracts, which is the
norm for any kind of pilot. So for her, she'd
been kind of just this, you know, journeyman actress in
a way, like doing Broadway, you know, doing movies like
Honeymoon in Vegas. Most actors don't really want to be
committed one to one job forever. So anyway, Sarah Jessica,
(08:19):
I believe her nervousness was do I really want to
be committed? Do I want to be tied down? It
wasn't something that most actors like you didn't start to
be an actor because you wanted to do one job
for thirty years. That just wasn't even really a possibility.
And obviously for us has turned into this incredible opportunity.
But never, never, never, never, never, never would we have
(08:40):
thought of that at the time, I mean never, never,
Like we were just wanting to be picked up for thirteen episodes.
That was our dream. Like I remember Darren and I
when we did get picked up, we used to make
jokes about how maybe one day we could get nominated
for a Cable Ace Award. That was the highest our
hopes were. There's this thing there gone they were called
(09:00):
the Cable Ace Awards. They were just for shows on
cable because at that point, no cable show had ever
been nominated for an Emmy, much less one in Emmy.
So it wasn't even in our mind that that could happen.
But obviously it did later on happen, which is a miracle.
There's so many miracles involved in our show. Anyway, back
to this episode. So this episode to me is super
(09:22):
fascinating for so many different reasons. So we have a
different DP at this point. Her name is Maurice Albert Ti.
She's French, and I used to butcher her name all
the time, and for any French people, I'm really sorry
if I have butchered it again. But she was incredible,
and we also have this really interesting director, Alison McClain.
Now what I remember of the first season Okay, wait,
(09:46):
I didn't get to the point that they did finally
pick us up obviously. I guess that's obvious. So maybe
like a year of waiting and then we get picked
up finally. I also think, and when I watched this
(10:07):
episode two, I really really seriously think this that you know,
it was a really different, different time in our culture,
certainly in our entertainment landscape. HBO at that point was
known for having boxing. Yes, boxing, that was their claim
to fame, boxing and movies, right. That was why you
(10:29):
paid the hefty price to have HBO cable pay cable
on your television at home, because no one had iPads
because they weren't invented. It's crazy to think about, you guys. Crazy. Okay.
So they had had a show called dream On on HBO,
and on dream On every episode a different actress would
(10:49):
show her breasts. That was just part of the show
and it was theoretically to please the men who were
watching HBO to watch the boxing. I believe, I mean,
no one ever said these words to me, but this
is what I believe to be true. So I think
when we came along, one of the things that I
think is super interesting to think about for the first season.
(11:12):
Nothing had aired yet at this point, and back in
the olden days, we used to put a show on
the air and see the reaction as it went. Like
if you were on, say, for instance, a multi camera show,
you would start filming, they would come on the air,
you'd still be filming, right, so you could kind of
change and shift based on the audience reaction to things.
(11:33):
Back when we started, we filmed the whole thirteen without
anything ever being on the air, which was really unusual
at the time. Now with streaming, people do it all
the time. But no one knew what we were doing.
We didn't really know what we were doing. I remember
that someone made, probably production I guess, made a hat
for us to start. It was like a welcome, you know,
(11:54):
a welcome you get like swag right in the beginning,
and it said sex on the front of the baseball cap.
Back of the baseball cap it said and the city. Now.
I wore this hat all over Manhattan. Okay. So I
remember being into Starbucks one time with his sex hat on,
and some man is ahead of me in line and
(12:14):
he turns and he's like interesting hat, and I'm like, oh, yeah,
it's a show. And he said, oh, and I said,
you know, it's a show on HBO. It's a new show.
He said, are you on it? And I said I am, Yeah,
I am. And he said, oh, is it Real Sex?
And I was like, no, there was a show on
HBO in the wee hours of the morning, you guys
(12:35):
literally basically like porn. Okay. I only saw it once,
and I was like, what, Oh my god, So this
man in the Starbucks thinks that I, personally Kristen am
on this show called Real Sex in the wee hours
on HBO. And I didn't know what it was at
the time, but I was like, no, no, it's a comedy.
And he was like, oh, it looked like he didn't
believe me, So I kind of quit wearing that hat.
(12:57):
But these this is where we're at at this point,
right we're just kind of at a vacuum, you know,
so we're operating in a vacuum. We're trying to figure
out what we're doing. All the writers are back in
Los Angeles. Writer Darren had had a writer's room back
in LA which is kind of you know, like how
writers work, they have a writer's room, they pitch ideas.
(13:18):
I'm sure they were using Candace's book. Maybe Candace was involved,
I don't know, but they then they have the scripts,
and then they already have the scripts when we come
to work basically or the scripts are primarily done. Michael
Patrick King is the person that we will ask about
this because Michael Patrick's King. King's name appears on this
episode for the first time, hallelujah, and we get to
(13:40):
talk to him very soon. And man, the list of
questions is going to be long, you guys, I mean
so long, like things that I literally am. I feel
like I've never seen the show. When I watched these
early episodes, I feel like I don't remember this. I
don't know what's happening. I'm fascinated. But wow. So Michael
can hopefully answer some of these questions for us. I'm
(14:01):
sure that he can, and he is on. His name
is on, not as a writer Darren wrote this episode,
but he definitely is on as a co executive producer.
So that's super interesting. So this episode, Hey gosh, where
to begin? This episode has so many fascinating, fascinating points
(14:21):
to it, which you know, I really seriously need to
hear all of your feedback on it. Because of two reasons.
Number one, how does it seem to you if you've
seen it, like in the last couple of years, for instance,
does it seem really shocking to you in terms of
this storyline of men who only date models, And then
(14:42):
there's this one and they're they're kind of like, you know,
unembarrassed about it all, you know, like, yeah, of course,
you know, I just love beautiful women, you know, like
it's very interesting. And then also there's this one particular character,
bark Lee, who filmed these models that he's having sex
with secretly and tells Carrie that this is his real
(15:06):
art because he is also a painter. He's splashing some
paint and you know, like kind of in a slightly
Jackson Pollock way but not really on a big canvas
with Carrie talking about models. And then he's like, but
this is my real art, and he shows her this
wall of like super old fashioned, like nineteen sixties televisions,
and then shows Carrie the video of him having sex
(15:30):
with these different women who are models, who Carrie says,
it is like the entire fragrance section of Vogue magazine,
and you know what on earth I mean? I Ah,
I'm just still in Shock. Obviously he would be in
jail if this happened now, which you know, this is progress, okay,
But also Carrie has to really be like so kind
(15:52):
of game, like she just sits there and she's like, oh,
you know, And I just wonder what on earth Sir
Jusica was thinking. And I'm also wondering what on earth
Gabriel Mocked was thinking. I mean, he gets, in my
mind so much credit because his likability factor is so
(16:12):
high that he somehow makes this character likable almost I
mean not really, because no one doing this could really
be likable, but like you really are. You're kind of
with him and then you're like, oh my gosh. But
like then we see him again at the fashion show
and Carrie's like, hey, you know, like it's really fascinating.
And I honestly think if it were not Gabriel Mocked
(16:32):
to play that character, I just don't even know how.
I just don't even I just can't even picture it
even being remotely palatable in any way. So credit to you,
mister Mocked. I can totally see how you have a
very successful career on suits and all the other things.
I don't even know, And I really wish I had
gotten to work with you because you were great, but wow,
(16:53):
I'm sorry you had to play this part. You can
tell how I feel about this, this character and this storyline,
and I just also feel for Sarah Jessica and I
just can't wait to ask her, you know, what on
earth were you thinking when you had to do this
and be fine with it? And what I think about
it is that one of the things I think as
a kind of a thematic idea of watching the beginning
(17:16):
of the beginning of the show is one of the
things that we were struggling with, though I don't think
we would have had the words for it at the time,
was whose gaze is this story or show for and
or by? Is it the male gaze? Is it the
female gaze? Are we trying to be somehow filling this
(17:41):
area that HBO has carved out for itself of having
like kind of funny and slightly titillating shows like dream On.
Are we trying to do that for the men viewers?
Or are we trying to make a show about strong
women navigating relationships in New York City, which obviously is
we turned into Thank Goodness, But at the time I
(18:03):
don't think that we really knew. And part of the
reason I bring this up is that coming up in
a couple episodes is going to be a storyline where
Charlotte is in a situation that I saw happening one
way and the director saw happening in a very very
different way. And I ended up having to lock myself
in a dressing room and call my manager and it
(18:24):
was like two am. So Michael Patrick wasn't there, Sir
Jessca wasn't there. No one was there to help me,
and I just had to like hide and call my
manager and be like what I do? What shud I do?
What's happening? And it was very similar the more active
as this storyline that Carrie finds herself in terms of
like something that normally I think you wouldn't see on television, right.
(18:49):
I think that was kind of the thing too, Like
we were trying to push the boundaries, and I feel
like Candice in her column was also like trying to
push the boundaries, but investigate, like what is going on here?
You know, can women have sex like men? You know?
What do you make of modelizers? You know? Is it
worth trying to like push through that with a man
(19:10):
let's see you meet a man in New York, which
could still happen. Okay, these dudes are one hundred percent
still there. I mean there are some famous ones. I
am not going to say their name. I know you
all know who I mean. Like, I think it's really
fascinating and I don't know that it's been answered yet,
Like why, like why why would a man only date models?
That is interesting? Okay, is it, like Carrie says about
(19:34):
the status, you know, is it making them feel stronger,
more powerful better that they have kind of a trophy
kind of person on their on their arm. But I
also feel like there is this storyline kind of uh
sub subtext going on, or actually I think we actually
(19:54):
say it in the episode of like that they're not
that bright because the whole storyline with Josh Pace, who's
so funny as Nick, who is the main modelizer of
the episode, who takes Miranda on a date because his
friends gang up on him and tell him that they
want him to bring a woman who can actually have
a conversation, which is kind of funny, and so he
(20:15):
brings Miranda and then she finds out and then it
shows these beautiful women that he's previously brought and they
can't even really converse with his friends who are not models. Right,
So it does kind of continue on this kind of
idea that the beautiful women can't be smart, which is
not fair either. Right. So, like we've got some different
(20:36):
things that we're toying with in this episode, which I
think are fascinating, but also I don't know that we
go deep enough. I think that's I think that's what
I think. I mean. I love these two beautiful women
because we're still in the talking to the camera phase, right.
So at one point we got cut to a restaurant
and they're two beautiful women, and one of them says,
oh god, I was hopeful for a second. She goes,
(20:57):
you know, I mean people just don't think we're smart.
And I read all the time, and I'm like yay.
And then she says, I read sometimes a magazine from
cover to cover, and I'm like boo. So, like, you know,
this whole episode for me was really up and down,
really up and down. Now let's cut two for a second.
We now have the transition happening of Sir Jessica's hair.
(21:19):
It's brown in the pilot, which I personally love. Maybe
selfishly because obviously I'm a brunette and she's now blonde,
but it's not as blond as she ends up, right,
it's kind of in transition. She's got like really light
highlights around her face. I think it's so adorable, and
at one point she has ponytails and it's so cute.
(21:47):
This is when we get Pat Field as our costume designer,
so you don't totally see Pat's influence straight out in
this episode, and I remember it being very much a
pro right, like Pat, I had never really done a
television show. She does not think like a regular costume
(22:08):
designer at all. She thinks like a fashion designer, but
also like kind of an avant garde fashion designer. So like,
for me, in one scene that I'm in, I'm wearing
my own clothes. Okay, now they're not good. All right,
They're really not good, and I'm sorry. I apologize, And
very soon in this in real life, Darren takes me
(22:31):
out to dinner. Maybe these two episodes or maybe the
next two episodes. I'm not sure, because I'd started going
to my fittings with Pat and it was stressful. Okay,
I don't know how else to put it It was stressful
for me because I came from you know, more traditional
(22:51):
theater and TV and more traditional costume designers, and you
would go, you would have a fitting in a costume
room at a studio or you know, wherever you were filming,
and there'd be closed there and you'd try them on.
Pat did not work like that. I remember going to
stores with Pat and Rebecca her assistant slash girlfriend, slash wife,
(23:16):
and Mollie Rogers, who's still our costumes that are now
was also around, and we're going to talk to Molly
soon and I cannot wait. Okay, I cannot wait, because
she was around for all of it. But it was
a process with Pat. And I remember going to stores
and you would have a stack of cash in their
hand that they couldn't hold in their hand. It was
(23:38):
a big stack of cash, okay, and they'd carry it
in a bag. And the reason I remember this is
because at one point we left it somewhere we had
to go I can get it. I mean, like what
on Earth? Alright? One on Earth? It's so crazy to
think about, but like we would go to like Burgdorf
and I would just be like, uh, just be just
(23:58):
so riddled with Anxiet. We'd be looking at all the
you know, Dulja Gabon and whatever, and I didn't think
I could wear this, you know. And also we didn't
really know who Charlotte was. Charlotte. As I said last time,
when you read the book of Candace's column, she's not formed,
she's not cohesive. And later on I think Candace either
(24:19):
told me or said in an interview, I have no
idea that she. Charlotte was based on numerous different friends,
so it was really hard to tell, you know, who
exactly is Charlotte. Like, part of the reason I think
I only have one scene is that, you know whatever,
this idea was to make me a recurring role instead
of a series regular role, which I probably should have
(24:41):
explained in more detail because there are some whacked headlines
out there, which I find so frustrating because I just
want to come on here and talk freely to you
guys who loved the show. Ah. I somehow thought that
if it was me talking that they would not misinterpret
what I was saying. But I guess that that was naive.
A little bit of Charlotte happening here because there's some
(25:05):
very strange, first strange headlines in the world about what
I said last time. So I hope you guys are
just here with me. I'm going to try to explain
the contract thing a little bit more. Basically, the big
contract that you have to sign before you test for
a pilot is very negotiated, very lengthy for seven years
(25:25):
because they want to lock you up because if you
are on a show that turns into a hit, that's
obviously incredibly important for a network, and they need to
keep the players you know, available to them. Right. So,
back then, especially pre streaming, this was very important. So
when they knocked on my door and said, oh, we
have this, this paperwork you need to sign. Had I
(25:48):
signed the paperwork, it would have made my big seven
year contract null and void. That's why I didn't sign it.
So it's not that they only paid me five thousand
for the pilot, which I think is some headline. I
don't know. That's not true because I did not sign
the five thousand dollars paperwork, right. I was like, no,
I don't know what you're talking about. What paperwork? What
(26:10):
I left at home? Oh my god, I did a
lot of acting. Okay, there's a lot of acting in
my trailer about that paperwork. I knew. I knew that
it was a risk because clearly there was some thought
that maybe Charlotte wasn't integral to the story of Sex
and the City, and I felt like she was. And I'm,
you know, grateful that I had that confidence. I don't
(26:30):
know why I have that confidence or had that confidence,
but I'm very very grateful that I did. It came
from above, I guess, I don't know. But they basically
would have only used me when they felt they had
a storyline, I think, is the point. Right, So recurring
means that you wouldn't you were not booked for all thirteen,
(26:56):
So I would have gone home to LA and waited
for them to call me and say, like, oh wait,
a storyline for you in episode five or whatever something
like that. Right, So, like when I see myself in
this one scene in this episode, which I didn't even
remember at all, but when I see myself in this
one scene, I'm like, Oh, they did not know what
to do with Charlotte, which I also from this vantage
(27:16):
point understand because she makes no sense in the book. Really,
you don't the whole wanting to get married her coming
from a more traditional background and wanting to recreate that
her going to Smith. She's from Connecticut. All things that
we know about Charlotte now, we did not know that then,
so she was not formed. We didn't know how to
dress her. I remember being with Pat and Rebecca in
(27:37):
one of these stores and They've got this beaded dulce
tight wiggle skirt, as Pat would say, and I was like,
I can't wear this, and She's like, yes, you can,
and you know she was right. Of course she was right.
And so at some point Darren Starr takes me out
to dinner and he says, Kristen, you have got to
let Pat Field dress you. You've got to just do
what she says. And I'm like, okay, all right, I'm just,
(27:59):
you know, nervous. I don't know these clothes. I just
I don't know if I can pull it off, you know,
which was all totally true. And he says, doesn't matter.
You know, she is gonna dress you better than you're
gonna dress yourself. And I was like, oh, okay, you
know sure. So when I see myself in that episode
wearing my own outfit, which I believe I went out
(28:20):
and got at Fred Siegel, which is also kind of
adorable and funny in so nineties, any of you who
are my age remember Fred Siegel and how that was
like the spot for all of us people in Los
Angeles to go and spend our money. I just think
it was a whole process with Pat. And when I
see Sarah Jessica wearing the incredible dress that she wears
(28:43):
to the fashion shows, like a black dress with these
kind of silver jewelry chain pieces that hang off the back,
oh god that she ends up with them up Derek
in which we've got to talk about Derek. Oh my gosh,
you guys. So she ends up she goes Okay, backtrack
to the episode. So we've met the Gabriel Mocked character.
Carrie's trying to do her research on modelizers. She goes
(29:06):
to a modelizer to ask him about this. This is
Gabriel Mock, who is I guess like an uber modelizer.
Let's go with that. Okay, slash artist, just being kind,
all right. So then she goes to a fashion show
with Samantha and they run into Gabriel Mack's character Barkley
at this fashion show, and Carrie is wearing this fantastic
(29:27):
dress that then she then wears to the after party,
where she runs into Big, which is so incredibly likable.
I have to say, the two of them, I really
liked them a lot, and it was nice to remember
their original kind of chemistry and the way that it
was written where they just kind of keep running into
each other, but it's like casual, but then you can
(29:50):
see that she lights up whenever she sees him. I mean,
I really liked it. I really liked it, and I
was surprised that I really liked it because it's a
long time ago and I didn't really remember how c
leverly it unfolds. You know, it's not really it's not
like a television storyline. It's more like a film storyline,
but also set against this backdrop of Manhattan, right where
(30:12):
like you would theoretically run into people in your same
social circle out an event and whatnot. Anyway, back to
the modelizer, so they run into Gabriel Mark's character Barklay
at this fashion show, and Samantha really with incredible confidence,
decides that you know, she is up to the challenge
(30:34):
of dating someone who literally only has sex with models,
as Carrie tells her, and you know, you gotta really
have a lot of respect for how Kim plays Samantha
with such kind of a light touch, but also this
incredible confidence that yes, she is going to seduce this
(30:56):
modelizer even though she's not a model, and that she
likes that challenge. And then when Carrie tells her later no, no,
you can't do that because he secretly films the people
yes sex with She's like, yeah, yeah, I'm going to
do that, like it's crazy, and she does it so lightly,
like with with ease. Is what I was thinking when
I was watching her, And obviously, wow, you know, I
(31:19):
still can't quite get over the whole filming situation. But
you know what I think, I think what's happening? And
I you know, I guess we'll have to ask everybody,
But what's happening I think is that Candice in originally
in her column, is trying to say, you know that
(31:39):
we need to like pull the cover off of sexuality
and relationships and what's really going on and talk about it,
which obviously our show then did as well over the
years in different ways. And here in this early early
early version, like Samantha saying like, no, no, I want
to do this, I'm doing the on purpose because I'm
(32:01):
choosing to do this. I think that she Samantha, and
the show, I guess, is like trying to take the
power back. I think I'm not sure. I want to
know what you guys think about this, because obviously this
is something where you can say, oh, wow, look at
that show filmed in like basically I want to say
nineteen ninety eight, and how different things are now that
(32:23):
that would not be okay to secretly film people and
consider it your art, like you're going to eventually show
someone like it's very whacked, right. I mean, I'm pretty
sure that everyone feels this. And the other thing I
thought about when I was watching it is that I
do tend to think like sometimes I'll meet young women
or my friend's daughters and they'll say like, oh, I've
(32:46):
just started watching the show and I love it, And
I'll be like, oh, thank you, I'm so glad you
love it, Like are you learning a lot? And I'll
say yes, I mean I watched this show and I'm like,
oh no, they're watching this. Oh no, you know, it
doesn't seem it doesn't seem necessarily like the most empowering
situation that we're showing here. So it is really interesting
(33:09):
to me, and I'm just dying to know what you
guys all think, whatever age you are, young, old, please
tell me your thoughts on this whole situation. Let me
get my paper out because we are going to talk
(33:30):
about Skipper and Miranda. I mean, wow, you know, there's
so much here. My biggest favorite thing, Oh my gosh,
Carrie's wearing her coat. Let's talk about the coat for
a second as well. This is when we first see
Carrie wearing her vintage for a coat that Pat got her.
I think they found it in like just a really
no name store. We did recently get it back out
(33:54):
on and just like that, and it was a true,
true vintage for a coat. And I hope I'm allowed
to say this. I'm really sorry if I'm not, but
we eventually did get in a lot of trouble with
Pete about it. I don't really like to wear fur.
I think I'm okay to say this as well. Pat
back in the day really really really loved for and
(34:15):
every year, what would happen with us scheduling wise, is
that we'd come back to work in roughly February to
start filming. The show would come on HBO in June
and then play through the summer. So we had to
pretend in February like it was summer weather, but obviously
it really really was not right. So pat would always think, like,
(34:38):
wouldn't it be great to put them in some fun
for coats. I could try to do my patent impression,
but I don't want to really annoy you guys. She
has a very distinctive voice, I'm sure you know. But
every year, every year, at the beginning, she would try
to get me into a fur coat. And every year
I beg or please Pat no, please, Pat no, please,
please no, please know anything anything but that, and but
she'd be like, all of you are go to be
(35:00):
in fart It's going to be great. And I remember
having to go to I can't remember which store, like
a burgdor for maybe Barney's, but I don't think Barney's
had a first section. It was like a whole section
of fur coats, and she was like, you have to
come here. So I go. She puts this chinchilla wrap
cape on me, and she's like, it's fabulous. Her favorite
(35:24):
compliment was to say it's d So I go to
this store, I put on this chinchilla rap and she's
like it's so de and I'm like, oh God, help me.
So I'm like, I go home. I literally have nightmares
that the chinchillas have come alive and that they're crawling
all over me. So I go to work the next
(35:46):
day and I'm like, please, bad, I guess sleep think
about those chinchillas. Please. I'm begging and begging. So what
she would compromise on is that I would wear shearling.
So like, there's a really popular pink shearling jacket that
I wear one year that people still love to this day,
which for me seems very random out of all of
the fantastic things I ever wore, that they love this
(36:08):
pink cher link coat. But that was Pat's compromise that
I didn't have to wear like mink or chinchilla or
whatever it was. But we initially see Carrie in her
really fabulous Okay, I can totally understand that this was
a special coat. And of course, sir, Jessica has this
(36:30):
unbelievable gift of style, like just innate personal style, where
you know she can wear a pair of sweatpants and
you do not realize that they're sweatpants because of whatever
she has done to them and put with them and
a cessorized with them. They just look amazing. This is
just her personal like special talent. Okay, obviously you all
(36:51):
know that, but in terms of this vintage fur, that's
definitely what's happening here. Like if you or I went
into this door and saw this vintage fur and we
put it on, I don't know that it would be
so so fantastic. Also coming up, I think soon they
put me in a vintage outfit. I love vintage clothes.
You guys always have love vintage clothes. One of the
two notes that I know of coming from HBO is
(37:14):
do not put Charlotte in vintage. Very interesting. You're gonna
see why when we get to it. It did not.
It did not play so well on the camera. I don't.
I don't. I mean, I'm sure we could have figured
it out, but they were like, do not put Charlotte
and vintage. And I also kind of understand, like it's like,
you know, like kind of too on point in a
weird way. But that was kind of sad for me
(37:37):
because I do love vintage. But the first time that
we see the coat, Carrie is walking with Skipper down
the street and Skipper is going on about Miranda and
how much he loves her and how he's been calling
her and calling her and calling her and she won't
call him back. And then he gets out the most
hysterical cell phone you've ever seen in your life, which
I have such memories of, and Carrie pulls the antenna
(37:58):
up with her teeth, which is like so enjoyable, you guys,
and he flips open the thing like it's just so great.
And I remember these things so well, and for us,
we were just so thrilled to have them, like, you know,
to have an actual cell phone as clunky and strange
as it was very exciting in the day. So they
call her together and Carrie looks kind of nervous, like
(38:20):
she understands that Skipper is being like too needy and
that Miranda is not going to be into it, but
she doesn't quite know how to tell Skipper because he's like,
you know, very puppy energy and you know, like pick me.
And so then you know that Miranda has gone out
with a modelizer, right, which is obviously not a wise choice,
(38:41):
but how was she to know? And so she kicks
him to the curb, thank goodness, and she's so funny.
I mean, oh, I didn't even talk about the group scene.
Oh my gosh, you guys welcome to my mind. So
we have to back up. We have to back up
to the group scene, the one scene that Charlotte's said.
I do have so many memories of the scene because
it was the first time that we're in Carrie's apart.
We have Carrie's real apartment, though it also shows the
(39:04):
coffee shop sign and Neon from the pilot, so it's
an interesting jextaposition of the old with the new. But
it is Carrie's apartment, though it's not fully worked out yet,
but it's like the blueprint the set that we would
come to know and love, and we're all together. It
is the one and only time that we were told
(39:25):
that we could add lib. After that, it never happened again.
It was very, very very frowned upon after this. But
it was the sweetest reason why in this particular scene,
we're talking about models and men who only date women
who are models, and you know how we feel about
that or whatever? Does it make us feel less than
(39:47):
I think it's something like that, Carrie asked us, and
then we were each supposed to say what we felt
insecure about, and the writers didn't want to write that
on paper, so that was very sweet of them not
to want to write what they thought that we you
would feel self conscious about, to let us add lib
what we felt self conscious about, which was really kind.
It was also like four in the morning. This was
(40:07):
the beginning of our well, no, the pilot. Actually, I
think when I'm on the stairs of the met is
like four in the morning. We filmed all night long,
almost all the time. We would start Monday f five am,
and each day would get longer and longer because we
had night exteriors. Because as you remember a lot of
the show in the beginning, especially, we're out and about
at night. We're on the streets at night blah blah
(40:28):
blah blah blah. So we had to wait for nighttime,
which meant we had to film later and later as
the week went on. So as the week went on,
like we'd film probably Wednesday night till two, Thursday night
till four. By the time we got to Friday night,
we would film until the sun came up on Saturday
every single week, and then you'd have to turn yourself
back around by Monday morning to go to work at five.
It was a lot, okay. And also back then, we
(40:52):
really felt like we could never say this publicly like that.
We just had to be like, we're fine, We're great,
we love our show so much, and we're having so
much fun, because that's what everyone wild always say, like
is there so much fun? You'd be like yes, now,
mind you. Also, on the weekend, I had a pair
of shoes that was the whole size too big because
my feet would be so swollen because I wasn't used
to wearing these shoes. Everyone always says like, oh, the shoes.
I'm like, yeah, it's hard. It's a thing. It's not
(41:15):
just like easy. And this is obviously a long time ago.
So I would have a certain pair of shoes I
would wear all weekend that my feet could just be
swollen in. And then hopefully by the end of the weekend,
the short weekend, they would be back ready at five
am on Monday to be putting those minolas back on.
But it did take Pat a little while to get
me in the minolo's. So right when we see this
(41:35):
first episode, I'm wearing some boots. I think they're mine.
I don't know, They're not good Okay, Pat has not
worked her magic on me yet. It's begune and I'm
stressing about it, but it has not really fully happened.
So when we do do this scene in Sara Juska
Carrie's apartment, sorry, I can't keep us straight. It is
(41:58):
the wee hours and we are living and absolutely Kim
ad libs like she like touches Cynthia's face at one
point or whatever. I mean, it was really I just
remember giggling and that it was fun and exciting. And
then I also thought, and this is just because I'm
the only one here right now, I'm going to tell
you my own thoughts on myself. Previous to this show,
I had been on well, I had done some guest
(42:19):
star things in between, but I'd been on Melroe's Place,
Darren's other show, right, and when you were on and
Aaron Spelling Soap Opera, there were a lot of rules,
and the rules were non negotiable, and the rules had
to do with the fact that they wanted to do
three sizes of a camera shot on you, one of
which was a super close up that would literally cut
(42:41):
your hairline off right like be like your eyes and
your mouth, and to do that you had to hold
really still. So I played this character Brook who worked
in this office with Billy and Allison on Heatherlockler's character,
and I used to say like, oh, couldn't I have
some props? And they'd say like, well, why would you
want some prop? And I'd be like, well, we're working right,
(43:01):
Like like should I write something down? It'd be like no, no,
don't do that. They'd be like why why why wouldn't
I write something down? Aren't I supposed to be working?
And they were like, well, you can't look down? And
I'm like, what do you mean? What do you mean
I can't look down now? Mind you, I'd spent the
last fifteen years in acting class where they're just trying
to talk to you about being natural and doing things
and you know, being not self conscious or whatever, and
(43:23):
so then you're on a show that's like, no, you
can't look down, you can't have props, you can't do anything.
You have to just stare at the other person like
hardcore okay. And you can't change your hair. That was
the other Aaron Spelling thing, because he didn't want hair
in your face because you wanted to see your eyes. Okay, now,
I kind of get it because eyes are the windows
to the soul. But on the other hand, as an actor,
it's pretty hard. It's pretty hard to do that. So
(43:45):
when I watch myself in the scene with everybody in
the group scene, I'm just trying to be natural. I'm
just trying to be present. I'm eating, I'm touching my hair,
I'm touching my face. I'm you know, just trying to
be like un self conscious and in the show that
we're trying to make, which is much more realistic, you
know what I'm saying, like not like TV in the
(44:08):
way that I was, you know previously in So that
was one of the things I thought about watching watching
the Four of Us with the Chinese food, like, yes,
I'm eating. That was a big thing on our show. Yes,
we always ate, No, we almost, I don't. I can't
think of a time we had a spit bucket because
we're in a scene. You can't stop and spit food
out in a spit bucket. That doesn't work. You have
(44:30):
to keep talking. As you know, it's going to be
a Miranda like signature. I mean, you know, they would
like challenge her like how much food can you get
in your mouth? And Cynthia was ready. She was ready.
She's like, I'm going to go for it. We'd I'll
be like, oh my god, maybe it's too much. She'd
be like no, But it was so much fun to watch,
so to me that all of that is there in
the beginning, Okay, Skipper, Skipper, Skipper Skipper, and Miranda are adorable,
(44:55):
So he's there, he is. I don't even know that
we ever have a guy care character who is like him. Again,
I don't think we do. Where he's just like calling
her and calling her and calling her and kind of needy,
and everyone's thinking it's not going to work out. Then
they run into each other in the bodega, which is
also so New York and so adorable, and he very
(45:17):
beautifully tells her at the checkout that she's luminous, and
she is luminous and it just melts her cold heart.
So it's such a great, great, great scene and I
love it so much. And then he wants to finish
paying for his Captain crunch I believe or something, and
she's like, there's cereal at my house, which is so great.
(45:40):
There's cereal at my apartment, I believe. She says it's
so classic and great. So for me, there are such great, great,
great moments in this episode where you really see this
huge potential. But then there's also just really really strange
things like this dude who's filming model secretly having sex
with him. Right, So it's a very mixed thing. But oh,
(46:02):
the other thing I was gonna say is that, so
we filmed these whole we'd done the pilot obviously, and
then we filmed twelve more episodes before anything came on
the air. And one of the great things is that
HBO allowed us to find ourselves, right, So like we
would kind of, you know, shift this way and shift
that way, and one script might seem more pushing the boundaries,
(46:24):
like I would say this episode, and then a different
script might seem more comedic. And remember Darren, sometimes he
would come down the writer's rooms in the studio where
we were in Silver Cup at this point on Long
Island City. It's still there. It used to be a
bread factory. It's a very charming place. It's kind of
falling down, but we love it. And he would come
down sometimes and he'd be like, you know, you guys
(46:45):
got to be sexy. You gotta be sexy. And I'd
say like me, really me, are you sure me? And
he'd be like, yes, all of you, all of you.
And we'd be like okay. We kind of look at
each other. And then a different week he'd come down
and he'd be like, you guys, gotta be funny. You
gotta be funny. And we'd be like, okay, uh, are
you is there a rewrite? Like did something change in
(47:07):
the script? You'd be like, no, just make it funny.
We'd be like, okay, okay, Darren, Okay. So there was,
you know, definitely a growing period of the show and
the fact that HBO allowed us to kind of, you know,
slightly flail around a bit. I hope it's okay that
I'm saying this, because when I watch them, I am
really just like, it's been a long time. I vaguely,
(47:29):
vaguely remember this stuff, but like I one percent did
not remember this filming the model secretly part like it
is crazy. But I do also feel like, you know,
we've come a long way in some of these areas.
I mean, some of these areas we haven't, and then
some of these areas we have. And I think back then,
you know, I think that relationships and sexuality were kind
(47:54):
of seen from the male gaze more often than not,
at least in entertainment, so like in films, because that's
really where you saw sexuality. You didn't really see it
in television so much, right, So that was kind of
one of the ways that we started pushing that boundary.
And then what I think happened my perspective on it
is that as we kind of found ourselves and Michael
(48:16):
Patrick came, and other writers came, more women writers came,
we became more grounded in the fact that we were
about investigating things from the female perspective and not from
the male gaze, not from the male perspective, where we're
(48:36):
just trying to kind of deal with it and make
the best of it as we can, which is what
I feel like poor Kerrie's trying to do in that
one scene with the dude. You know, she's like hah,
you know, like kind of nervously laughing, but she's sitting there,
you know, it's very fascinating. But then she definitely tells
Samantha like, do not go there, you know what I mean.
So it's not like she thought, oh, it's fine, right,
(48:57):
So it's I think a very interesting thing, and I
think something that we'll be talking about more. And I'm
super curious what you guys think of it, meaning those
points of like, you know, did you feel uncomfortable watching
that or did you feel like, oh, yeah, this stuff
happens and let's uncover it, let's see it, let's see
(49:20):
it for what it is. And I do think also
that it should be said that I think that Candice
had a very non judgmental, you know quality. She was like,
I'm a social anthropologist and I'm uncovering what's going on
and I'm not judging it. And in that way, she
was kind of ahead of her time. I would say,
you know, I feel like now, in many ways, society's
(49:40):
much more non judgmental and like, well, this is what
you're into, but also there has to be consent hopefully.
I mean that's how I feel, at least as someone
with the daughter. I think we're there. I don't know
what do you guys think? I want to know from
you guys. All right? Those were my's dream of consciousness
(50:05):
thoughts about episode two, Season one, Models and Mortals. Thanks
for being with me everyone. Next week we have an
amazing guest. I can't wait. All right, bye,
Hi. I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are
you a Charlotte? Hi? Hi, everyone, We're back. This is
Are You a Charlotte? And we are now looking and
at season one, episode two. It's called Models and Mortals.
Oh my goodness, me, I watched this last night. I'm
(00:24):
still in shock. I have more questions than I have answers.
There's a lot to dig into here. I honestly just
don't even really, I really am not sure what to
say about. This episode is super fascinating, though, So let
me just kind of go back in time a little bit.
I Charlotte only has one scene in this episode, and
(00:47):
it's a really fun and funny scene that I do
have a lot of memories about. And someone asked me, oh,
did you remember that you only had one scene? And
I didn't remember. And part of the reason that I
didn't remember is that one of the things, and I
don't really know if we're the only show who does those,
we probably aren't. But one of the interesting things about
how we film, and this is still true to this
(01:08):
day on and just like that, is that we crossboard
two episodes at a time, so we're always filming two
episodes simultaneously. And part of the reason for that is
that locations in New York City are so expensive. So
let's say you get a restaurant for the day. That
takes you know, a lot of money. You have to
get into all kinds of arrangements. You have to arrange
(01:29):
with the Mayor's Office of Location Management for parking and
for all the trucks, and it's a whole big to do, right, So,
if you get a location, you would divide it up,
Like let's say you got a restaurant, you might film
in front of the restaurant, and then you might also
film a different scene from a different episode inside the restaurant,
So you know, you're kind of cross purposing those actual locations.
(01:53):
So when you're filming, you're filming two episodes at once. Now,
sometimes it gets out of hand, Like I remember one time,
maybe season three of Sex and the City. Towards the end,
we had all these unfinished scenes and we had I
think four units filming, and we had to make T shirts,
different colored T shirts for the different crews on the
(02:14):
different units and all the actors. We just had to
run from soundstage to soundstage to do the different things
that we needed to do to finish the episode like
that was crazy times, and then just his past year
on and just like that. I think there was a
time when the call sheet had six different episodes listed
for Charlotte of things that I had to finish. So
this particular episode, I have a different storyline for the
(02:35):
next episode that I was also doing, so it's not
like I was just sitting around the whole time. But
I also didn't really remember that I only had the
one episode and my thoughts on that, which, you know,
I don't know if we're ever going to find out,
you guys, why they tried to demote me, As one
of our current writers said, because you know, the funny
thing about the reaction, I mean, there's many funny things
(02:57):
about the reaction to the first two podcasts. One is
that a lot of my closest friends don't even know
the stories that I told you guys. They're like, what
you know? And some of our current you know, very
beloved crew members and writers and directors and everybody don't
know that story. So everyone's just like, why what happened?
What happened? I don't know if we'll ever know. I
(03:17):
really don't know. I don't know the answer to it,
I feel when I look back on it now from
the perspective of twenty seven years later or whatever, having
read Candace's book, which was based on Candace's column, And
the thing that's important for this particular episode to remember
is that Candace's column in The Observer called Sex and
(03:38):
the City was I believe, based in true stories that
she was hearing and or participating in, but also hearing
around town that were true stories, right, So she wouldn't
use the names. She might imply who they were, so
that if you were, like you know, ran in this
circle of friends in New York, you might know who
the stories were, but you might also not know and
(04:00):
just you know, read it for some interesting like social archaeology.
I guess maybe I'm going to try not to say
like so much, because I did see the comment from
one of our listeners that I say like too much.
So I just said, like, I'm really sorry. I'm going
to do my best. It's not going to be easy
because I'm just sitting here by myself yaking, okay, but
(04:22):
thank you for being with me and understanding. So Candace
is writing this column in the nineties in New York
City and she is writing things she's hearing happened, or
was there for when they happened, or both or neither,
I guess, but you know, that's the genesis of all
of this. So when I watched this episode, episode two,
(04:43):
which was the first episode we filmed once the show
had been picked up, I'm assuming that this really insane
storyline about this character that Gabriel Mock plays Barkley film
these models. I'm just going to go with the fact
(05:03):
that this is something Candice heard about that happened and
put in her column and thus ended up in her book,
and thus ended up in our show because Darren Starr
optioned her book, Sex and the City. So that's what
I'm going to go with. I'm going to go with
the fact that they didn't just make this up or
whatever for the show. I'm not sure because at this
(05:24):
point also the important thing to remember for me is
that the writers were all in Los Angeles. They did
not come We did not know them very unlike how
the show went on to develop, where the writers were
with us every day. The writers were part of our lives.
They were very close friends of ours, still are a
very close friend of ours. You're going to be meeting
(05:44):
them along the way. They're wonderful, these particular group of writers.
Some of them I would not know them if I
saw them. If I ran into them and they told
me I wrote an episode of Sex and City for
the first season, I would just say, like, okay, I
would believe them, because I don't know what they look like.
We were in Los Angeles after the pilot, Darren, myself,
(06:05):
and then strangely Sarah Jessica. This is a funny story.
I was renting a house at the time in a
little canyon in the west side of Los Angeles, not
a particularly popular canyon, and one day I had gotten
a puppy and I was walking down the street and
we are in the waiting period of waiting to hear
(06:25):
if HBO was going to pick the show up, and
they had I feel like they had eighteen months to
decide something like that, maybe just a year. Whatever. It
was felt like eternity. And I would call my poor
manager Dave every day and be like, did you hear anything,
did you hear anything? Did you hear anything? And then
I would call my lawyer Jason, and I would say
did you hear anything? Did you hear anything? And It
(06:46):
just went on and on and on the waiting, and
sometimes I think I would call Darren Starr say like,
did you hear anything? I wasn't close enough to Sara
Jessica at this point to have her number to be
calling a buggy herm, which is probably a good thing.
But one day walking down the street in this little
neighborhood that I've rented a house in, and I'm walking
my new puppy, and who drives down this empty street
with Sara Jusica Parker in a rented Lexus And I'm like, hey,
(07:11):
you know what I mean? And she's like, Hi, what
are you doing here? And I said, I just rented
the house over here. What are you doing here? And
she said, oh, Matthew's here doing a movie, so I'm
here with him while he's filming this movie. And I said,
did you hear anything? She was like no, and she
didn't seem she didn't seem as anxious about it as
I was. And I was like, what do you think
is happening? You know what was going on? And she goes, oh,
(07:33):
I don't know, you know, I don't know. And I said,
what don't you wanted to be picked up? And she
said something like yeah, but I could tell she was
just trying to please me, you know what I mean.
I thought, oh, no, Sara Jusica doesn't want to do it.
I don't know. And I do think now, you know,
knowing her all these many, many years, that this was
back to her kind of reticence to being committed to
(07:56):
a show. Because, as I told you before, we did
have these massive, in your long contracts, which is the
norm for any kind of pilot. So for her, she'd
been kind of just this, you know, journeyman actress in
a way, like doing Broadway, you know, doing movies like
Honeymoon in Vegas. Most actors don't really want to be
committed one to one job forever. So anyway, Sarah Jessica,
(08:19):
I believe her nervousness was do I really want to
be committed? Do I want to be tied down? It
wasn't something that most actors like you didn't start to
be an actor because you wanted to do one job
for thirty years. That just wasn't even really a possibility.
And obviously for us has turned into this incredible opportunity.
But never, never, never, never, never, never would we have
(08:40):
thought of that at the time, I mean never, never,
Like we were just wanting to be picked up for thirteen episodes.
That was our dream. Like I remember Darren and I
when we did get picked up, we used to make
jokes about how maybe one day we could get nominated
for a Cable Ace Award. That was the highest our
hopes were. There's this thing there gone they were called
(09:00):
the Cable Ace Awards. They were just for shows on
cable because at that point, no cable show had ever
been nominated for an Emmy, much less one in Emmy.
So it wasn't even in our mind that that could happen.
But obviously it did later on happen, which is a miracle.
There's so many miracles involved in our show. Anyway, back
to this episode. So this episode to me is super
(09:22):
fascinating for so many different reasons. So we have a
different DP at this point. Her name is Maurice Albert Ti.
She's French, and I used to butcher her name all
the time, and for any French people, I'm really sorry
if I have butchered it again. But she was incredible,
and we also have this really interesting director, Alison McClain.
Now what I remember of the first season Okay, wait,
(09:46):
I didn't get to the point that they did finally
pick us up obviously. I guess that's obvious. So maybe
like a year of waiting and then we get picked
up finally. I also think, and when I watched this
(10:07):
episode two, I really really seriously think this that you know,
it was a really different, different time in our culture,
certainly in our entertainment landscape. HBO at that point was
known for having boxing. Yes, boxing, that was their claim
to fame, boxing and movies, right. That was why you
(10:29):
paid the hefty price to have HBO cable pay cable
on your television at home, because no one had iPads
because they weren't invented. It's crazy to think about, you guys. Crazy. Okay.
So they had had a show called dream On on HBO,
and on dream On every episode a different actress would
(10:49):
show her breasts. That was just part of the show
and it was theoretically to please the men who were
watching HBO to watch the boxing. I believe, I mean,
no one ever said these words to me, but this
is what I believe to be true. So I think
when we came along, one of the things that I
think is super interesting to think about for the first season.
(11:12):
Nothing had aired yet at this point, and back in
the olden days, we used to put a show on
the air and see the reaction as it went. Like
if you were on, say, for instance, a multi camera show,
you would start filming, they would come on the air,
you'd still be filming, right, so you could kind of
change and shift based on the audience reaction to things.
(11:33):
Back when we started, we filmed the whole thirteen without
anything ever being on the air, which was really unusual
at the time. Now with streaming, people do it all
the time. But no one knew what we were doing.
We didn't really know what we were doing. I remember
that someone made, probably production I guess, made a hat
for us to start. It was like a welcome, you know,
(11:54):
a welcome you get like swag right in the beginning,
and it said sex on the front of the baseball cap.
Back of the baseball cap it said and the city. Now.
I wore this hat all over Manhattan. Okay. So I
remember being into Starbucks one time with his sex hat on,
and some man is ahead of me in line and
(12:14):
he turns and he's like interesting hat, and I'm like, oh, yeah,
it's a show. And he said, oh, and I said,
you know, it's a show on HBO. It's a new show.
He said, are you on it? And I said I am, Yeah,
I am. And he said, oh, is it Real Sex?
And I was like, no, there was a show on
HBO in the wee hours of the morning, you guys
(12:35):
literally basically like porn. Okay. I only saw it once,
and I was like, what, Oh my god, So this
man in the Starbucks thinks that I, personally Kristen am
on this show called Real Sex in the wee hours
on HBO. And I didn't know what it was at
the time, but I was like, no, no, it's a comedy.
And he was like, oh, it looked like he didn't
believe me, So I kind of quit wearing that hat.
(12:57):
But these this is where we're at at this point,
right we're just kind of at a vacuum, you know,
so we're operating in a vacuum. We're trying to figure
out what we're doing. All the writers are back in
Los Angeles. Writer Darren had had a writer's room back
in LA which is kind of you know, like how
writers work, they have a writer's room, they pitch ideas.
(13:18):
I'm sure they were using Candace's book. Maybe Candace was involved,
I don't know, but they then they have the scripts,
and then they already have the scripts when we come
to work basically or the scripts are primarily done. Michael
Patrick King is the person that we will ask about
this because Michael Patrick's King. King's name appears on this
episode for the first time, hallelujah, and we get to
(13:40):
talk to him very soon. And man, the list of
questions is going to be long, you guys, I mean
so long, like things that I literally am. I feel
like I've never seen the show. When I watched these
early episodes, I feel like I don't remember this. I
don't know what's happening. I'm fascinated. But wow. So Michael
can hopefully answer some of these questions for us. I'm
(14:01):
sure that he can, and he is on. His name
is on, not as a writer Darren wrote this episode,
but he definitely is on as a co executive producer.
So that's super interesting. So this episode, Hey gosh, where
to begin? This episode has so many fascinating, fascinating points
(14:21):
to it, which you know, I really seriously need to
hear all of your feedback on it. Because of two reasons.
Number one, how does it seem to you if you've
seen it, like in the last couple of years, for instance,
does it seem really shocking to you in terms of
this storyline of men who only date models, And then
(14:42):
there's this one and they're they're kind of like, you know,
unembarrassed about it all, you know, like, yeah, of course,
you know, I just love beautiful women, you know, like
it's very interesting. And then also there's this one particular character,
bark Lee, who filmed these models that he's having sex
with secretly and tells Carrie that this is his real
(15:06):
art because he is also a painter. He's splashing some
paint and you know, like kind of in a slightly
Jackson Pollock way but not really on a big canvas
with Carrie talking about models. And then he's like, but
this is my real art, and he shows her this
wall of like super old fashioned, like nineteen sixties televisions,
and then shows Carrie the video of him having sex
(15:30):
with these different women who are models, who Carrie says,
it is like the entire fragrance section of Vogue magazine,
and you know what on earth I mean? I Ah,
I'm just still in Shock. Obviously he would be in
jail if this happened now, which you know, this is progress, okay,
But also Carrie has to really be like so kind
(15:52):
of game, like she just sits there and she's like, oh,
you know, And I just wonder what on earth Sir
Jusica was thinking. And I'm also wondering what on earth
Gabriel Mocked was thinking. I mean, he gets, in my
mind so much credit because his likability factor is so
(16:12):
high that he somehow makes this character likable almost I
mean not really, because no one doing this could really
be likable, but like you really are. You're kind of
with him and then you're like, oh my gosh. But
like then we see him again at the fashion show
and Carrie's like, hey, you know, like it's really fascinating.
And I honestly think if it were not Gabriel Mocked
(16:32):
to play that character, I just don't even know how.
I just don't even I just can't even picture it
even being remotely palatable in any way. So credit to you,
mister Mocked. I can totally see how you have a
very successful career on suits and all the other things.
I don't even know, And I really wish I had
gotten to work with you because you were great, but wow,
(16:53):
I'm sorry you had to play this part. You can
tell how I feel about this, this character and this storyline,
and I just also feel for Sarah Jessica and I
just can't wait to ask her, you know, what on
earth were you thinking when you had to do this
and be fine with it? And what I think about
it is that one of the things I think as
a kind of a thematic idea of watching the beginning
(17:16):
of the beginning of the show is one of the
things that we were struggling with, though I don't think
we would have had the words for it at the time,
was whose gaze is this story or show for and
or by? Is it the male gaze? Is it the
female gaze? Are we trying to be somehow filling this
(17:41):
area that HBO has carved out for itself of having
like kind of funny and slightly titillating shows like dream On.
Are we trying to do that for the men viewers?
Or are we trying to make a show about strong
women navigating relationships in New York City, which obviously is
we turned into Thank Goodness, But at the time I
(18:03):
don't think that we really knew. And part of the
reason I bring this up is that coming up in
a couple episodes is going to be a storyline where
Charlotte is in a situation that I saw happening one
way and the director saw happening in a very very
different way. And I ended up having to lock myself
in a dressing room and call my manager and it
(18:24):
was like two am. So Michael Patrick wasn't there, Sir
Jessca wasn't there. No one was there to help me,
and I just had to like hide and call my
manager and be like what I do? What shud I do?
What's happening? And it was very similar the more active
as this storyline that Carrie finds herself in terms of
like something that normally I think you wouldn't see on television, right.
(18:49):
I think that was kind of the thing too, Like
we were trying to push the boundaries, and I feel
like Candice in her column was also like trying to
push the boundaries, but investigate, like what is going on here?
You know, can women have sex like men? You know?
What do you make of modelizers? You know? Is it
worth trying to like push through that with a man
(19:10):
let's see you meet a man in New York, which
could still happen. Okay, these dudes are one hundred percent
still there. I mean there are some famous ones. I
am not going to say their name. I know you
all know who I mean. Like, I think it's really
fascinating and I don't know that it's been answered yet,
Like why, like why why would a man only date models?
That is interesting? Okay, is it, like Carrie says about
(19:34):
the status, you know, is it making them feel stronger,
more powerful better that they have kind of a trophy
kind of person on their on their arm. But I
also feel like there is this storyline kind of uh
sub subtext going on, or actually I think we actually
(19:54):
say it in the episode of like that they're not
that bright because the whole storyline with Josh Pace, who's
so funny as Nick, who is the main modelizer of
the episode, who takes Miranda on a date because his
friends gang up on him and tell him that they
want him to bring a woman who can actually have
a conversation, which is kind of funny, and so he
(20:15):
brings Miranda and then she finds out and then it
shows these beautiful women that he's previously brought and they
can't even really converse with his friends who are not models. Right,
So it does kind of continue on this kind of
idea that the beautiful women can't be smart, which is
not fair either. Right. So, like we've got some different
(20:36):
things that we're toying with in this episode, which I
think are fascinating, but also I don't know that we
go deep enough. I think that's I think that's what
I think. I mean. I love these two beautiful women
because we're still in the talking to the camera phase, right.
So at one point we got cut to a restaurant
and they're two beautiful women, and one of them says,
oh god, I was hopeful for a second. She goes,
(20:57):
you know, I mean people just don't think we're smart.
And I read all the time, and I'm like yay.
And then she says, I read sometimes a magazine from
cover to cover, and I'm like boo. So, like, you know,
this whole episode for me was really up and down,
really up and down. Now let's cut two for a second.
We now have the transition happening of Sir Jessica's hair.
(21:19):
It's brown in the pilot, which I personally love. Maybe
selfishly because obviously I'm a brunette and she's now blonde,
but it's not as blond as she ends up, right,
it's kind of in transition. She's got like really light
highlights around her face. I think it's so adorable, and
at one point she has ponytails and it's so cute.
(21:47):
This is when we get Pat Field as our costume designer,
so you don't totally see Pat's influence straight out in
this episode, and I remember it being very much a
pro right, like Pat, I had never really done a
television show. She does not think like a regular costume
(22:08):
designer at all. She thinks like a fashion designer, but
also like kind of an avant garde fashion designer. So like,
for me, in one scene that I'm in, I'm wearing
my own clothes. Okay, now they're not good. All right,
They're really not good, and I'm sorry. I apologize, And
very soon in this in real life, Darren takes me
(22:31):
out to dinner. Maybe these two episodes or maybe the
next two episodes. I'm not sure, because I'd started going
to my fittings with Pat and it was stressful. Okay,
I don't know how else to put it It was stressful
for me because I came from you know, more traditional
(22:51):
theater and TV and more traditional costume designers, and you
would go, you would have a fitting in a costume
room at a studio or you know, wherever you were filming,
and there'd be closed there and you'd try them on.
Pat did not work like that. I remember going to
stores with Pat and Rebecca her assistant slash girlfriend, slash wife,
(23:16):
and Mollie Rogers, who's still our costumes that are now
was also around, and we're going to talk to Molly
soon and I cannot wait. Okay, I cannot wait, because
she was around for all of it. But it was
a process with Pat. And I remember going to stores
and you would have a stack of cash in their
hand that they couldn't hold in their hand. It was
(23:38):
a big stack of cash, okay, and they'd carry it
in a bag. And the reason I remember this is
because at one point we left it somewhere we had
to go I can get it. I mean, like what
on Earth? Alright? One on Earth? It's so crazy to
think about, but like we would go to like Burgdorf
and I would just be like, uh, just be just
(23:58):
so riddled with Anxiet. We'd be looking at all the
you know, Dulja Gabon and whatever, and I didn't think
I could wear this, you know. And also we didn't
really know who Charlotte was. Charlotte. As I said last time,
when you read the book of Candace's column, she's not formed,
she's not cohesive. And later on I think Candace either
(24:19):
told me or said in an interview, I have no
idea that she. Charlotte was based on numerous different friends,
so it was really hard to tell, you know, who
exactly is Charlotte. Like, part of the reason I think
I only have one scene is that, you know whatever,
this idea was to make me a recurring role instead
of a series regular role, which I probably should have
(24:41):
explained in more detail because there are some whacked headlines
out there, which I find so frustrating because I just
want to come on here and talk freely to you
guys who loved the show. Ah. I somehow thought that
if it was me talking that they would not misinterpret
what I was saying. But I guess that that was naive.
A little bit of Charlotte happening here because there's some
(25:05):
very strange, first strange headlines in the world about what
I said last time. So I hope you guys are
just here with me. I'm going to try to explain
the contract thing a little bit more. Basically, the big
contract that you have to sign before you test for
a pilot is very negotiated, very lengthy for seven years
(25:25):
because they want to lock you up because if you
are on a show that turns into a hit, that's
obviously incredibly important for a network, and they need to
keep the players you know, available to them. Right. So,
back then, especially pre streaming, this was very important. So
when they knocked on my door and said, oh, we
have this, this paperwork you need to sign. Had I
(25:48):
signed the paperwork, it would have made my big seven
year contract null and void. That's why I didn't sign it.
So it's not that they only paid me five thousand
for the pilot, which I think is some headline. I
don't know. That's not true because I did not sign
the five thousand dollars paperwork, right. I was like, no,
I don't know what you're talking about. What paperwork? What
(26:10):
I left at home? Oh my god, I did a
lot of acting. Okay, there's a lot of acting in
my trailer about that paperwork. I knew. I knew that
it was a risk because clearly there was some thought
that maybe Charlotte wasn't integral to the story of Sex
and the City, and I felt like she was. And I'm,
you know, grateful that I had that confidence. I don't
(26:30):
know why I have that confidence or had that confidence,
but I'm very very grateful that I did. It came
from above, I guess, I don't know. But they basically
would have only used me when they felt they had
a storyline, I think, is the point. Right, So recurring
means that you wouldn't you were not booked for all thirteen,
(26:56):
So I would have gone home to LA and waited
for them to call me and say, like, oh wait,
a storyline for you in episode five or whatever something
like that. Right, So, like when I see myself in
this one scene in this episode, which I didn't even
remember at all, but when I see myself in this
one scene, I'm like, Oh, they did not know what
to do with Charlotte, which I also from this vantage
(27:16):
point understand because she makes no sense in the book. Really,
you don't the whole wanting to get married her coming
from a more traditional background and wanting to recreate that
her going to Smith. She's from Connecticut. All things that
we know about Charlotte now, we did not know that then,
so she was not formed. We didn't know how to
dress her. I remember being with Pat and Rebecca in
(27:37):
one of these stores and They've got this beaded dulce
tight wiggle skirt, as Pat would say, and I was like,
I can't wear this, and She's like, yes, you can,
and you know she was right. Of course she was right.
And so at some point Darren Starr takes me out
to dinner and he says, Kristen, you have got to
let Pat Field dress you. You've got to just do
what she says. And I'm like, okay, all right, I'm just,
(27:59):
you know, nervous. I don't know these clothes. I just
I don't know if I can pull it off, you know,
which was all totally true. And he says, doesn't matter.
You know, she is gonna dress you better than you're
gonna dress yourself. And I was like, oh, okay, you
know sure. So when I see myself in that episode
wearing my own outfit, which I believe I went out
(28:20):
and got at Fred Siegel, which is also kind of
adorable and funny in so nineties, any of you who
are my age remember Fred Siegel and how that was
like the spot for all of us people in Los
Angeles to go and spend our money. I just think
it was a whole process with Pat. And when I
see Sarah Jessica wearing the incredible dress that she wears
(28:43):
to the fashion shows, like a black dress with these
kind of silver jewelry chain pieces that hang off the back,
oh god that she ends up with them up Derek
in which we've got to talk about Derek. Oh my gosh,
you guys. So she ends up she goes Okay, backtrack
to the episode. So we've met the Gabriel Mocked character.
Carrie's trying to do her research on modelizers. She goes
(29:06):
to a modelizer to ask him about this. This is
Gabriel Mock, who is I guess like an uber modelizer.
Let's go with that. Okay, slash artist, just being kind,
all right. So then she goes to a fashion show
with Samantha and they run into Gabriel Mack's character Barkley
at this fashion show, and Carrie is wearing this fantastic
(29:27):
dress that then she then wears to the after party,
where she runs into Big, which is so incredibly likable.
I have to say, the two of them, I really
liked them a lot, and it was nice to remember
their original kind of chemistry and the way that it
was written where they just kind of keep running into
each other, but it's like casual, but then you can
(29:50):
see that she lights up whenever she sees him. I mean,
I really liked it. I really liked it, and I
was surprised that I really liked it because it's a
long time ago and I didn't really remember how c
leverly it unfolds. You know, it's not really it's not
like a television storyline. It's more like a film storyline,
but also set against this backdrop of Manhattan, right where
(30:12):
like you would theoretically run into people in your same
social circle out an event and whatnot. Anyway, back to
the modelizer, so they run into Gabriel Mark's character Barklay
at this fashion show, and Samantha really with incredible confidence,
decides that you know, she is up to the challenge
(30:34):
of dating someone who literally only has sex with models,
as Carrie tells her, and you know, you gotta really
have a lot of respect for how Kim plays Samantha
with such kind of a light touch, but also this
incredible confidence that yes, she is going to seduce this
(30:56):
modelizer even though she's not a model, and that she
likes that challenge. And then when Carrie tells her later no, no,
you can't do that because he secretly films the people
yes sex with She's like, yeah, yeah, I'm going to
do that, like it's crazy, and she does it so lightly,
like with with ease. Is what I was thinking when
I was watching her, And obviously, wow, you know, I
(31:19):
still can't quite get over the whole filming situation. But
you know what I think, I think what's happening? And
I you know, I guess we'll have to ask everybody,
But what's happening I think is that Candice in originally
in her column, is trying to say, you know that
(31:39):
we need to like pull the cover off of sexuality
and relationships and what's really going on and talk about it,
which obviously our show then did as well over the
years in different ways. And here in this early early
early version, like Samantha saying like, no, no, I want
to do this, I'm doing the on purpose because I'm
(32:01):
choosing to do this. I think that she Samantha, and
the show, I guess, is like trying to take the
power back. I think I'm not sure. I want to
know what you guys think about this, because obviously this
is something where you can say, oh, wow, look at
that show filmed in like basically I want to say
nineteen ninety eight, and how different things are now that
(32:23):
that would not be okay to secretly film people and
consider it your art, like you're going to eventually show
someone like it's very whacked, right. I mean, I'm pretty
sure that everyone feels this. And the other thing I
thought about when I was watching it is that I
do tend to think like sometimes I'll meet young women
or my friend's daughters and they'll say like, oh, I've
(32:46):
just started watching the show and I love it, And
I'll be like, oh, thank you, I'm so glad you
love it, Like are you learning a lot? And I'll
say yes, I mean I watched this show and I'm like,
oh no, they're watching this. Oh no, you know, it
doesn't seem it doesn't seem necessarily like the most empowering
situation that we're showing here. So it is really interesting
(33:09):
to me, and I'm just dying to know what you
guys all think, whatever age you are, young, old, please
tell me your thoughts on this whole situation. Let me
get my paper out because we are going to talk
(33:30):
about Skipper and Miranda. I mean, wow, you know, there's
so much here. My biggest favorite thing, Oh my gosh,
Carrie's wearing her coat. Let's talk about the coat for
a second as well. This is when we first see
Carrie wearing her vintage for a coat that Pat got her.
I think they found it in like just a really
no name store. We did recently get it back out
(33:54):
on and just like that, and it was a true,
true vintage for a coat. And I hope I'm allowed
to say this. I'm really sorry if I'm not, but
we eventually did get in a lot of trouble with
Pete about it. I don't really like to wear fur.
I think I'm okay to say this as well. Pat
back in the day really really really loved for and
(34:15):
every year, what would happen with us scheduling wise, is
that we'd come back to work in roughly February to
start filming. The show would come on HBO in June
and then play through the summer. So we had to
pretend in February like it was summer weather, but obviously
it really really was not right. So pat would always think, like,
(34:38):
wouldn't it be great to put them in some fun
for coats. I could try to do my patent impression,
but I don't want to really annoy you guys. She
has a very distinctive voice, I'm sure you know. But
every year, every year, at the beginning, she would try
to get me into a fur coat. And every year
I beg or please Pat no, please, Pat no, please,
please no, please know anything anything but that, and but
she'd be like, all of you are go to be
(35:00):
in fart It's going to be great. And I remember
having to go to I can't remember which store, like
a burgdor for maybe Barney's, but I don't think Barney's
had a first section. It was like a whole section
of fur coats, and she was like, you have to
come here. So I go. She puts this chinchilla wrap
cape on me, and she's like, it's fabulous. Her favorite
(35:24):
compliment was to say it's d So I go to
this store, I put on this chinchilla rap and she's
like it's so de and I'm like, oh God, help me.
So I'm like, I go home. I literally have nightmares
that the chinchillas have come alive and that they're crawling
all over me. So I go to work the next
(35:46):
day and I'm like, please, bad, I guess sleep think
about those chinchillas. Please. I'm begging and begging. So what
she would compromise on is that I would wear shearling.
So like, there's a really popular pink shearling jacket that
I wear one year that people still love to this day,
which for me seems very random out of all of
the fantastic things I ever wore, that they love this
(36:08):
pink cher link coat. But that was Pat's compromise that
I didn't have to wear like mink or chinchilla or
whatever it was. But we initially see Carrie in her
really fabulous Okay, I can totally understand that this was
a special coat. And of course, sir, Jessica has this
(36:30):
unbelievable gift of style, like just innate personal style, where
you know she can wear a pair of sweatpants and
you do not realize that they're sweatpants because of whatever
she has done to them and put with them and
a cessorized with them. They just look amazing. This is
just her personal like special talent. Okay, obviously you all
(36:51):
know that, but in terms of this vintage fur, that's
definitely what's happening here. Like if you or I went
into this door and saw this vintage fur and we
put it on, I don't know that it would be
so so fantastic. Also coming up, I think soon they
put me in a vintage outfit. I love vintage clothes.
You guys always have love vintage clothes. One of the
two notes that I know of coming from HBO is
(37:14):
do not put Charlotte in vintage. Very interesting. You're gonna
see why when we get to it. It did not.
It did not play so well on the camera. I don't.
I don't. I mean, I'm sure we could have figured
it out, but they were like, do not put Charlotte
and vintage. And I also kind of understand, like it's like,
you know, like kind of too on point in a
weird way. But that was kind of sad for me
(37:37):
because I do love vintage. But the first time that
we see the coat, Carrie is walking with Skipper down
the street and Skipper is going on about Miranda and
how much he loves her and how he's been calling
her and calling her and calling her and she won't
call him back. And then he gets out the most
hysterical cell phone you've ever seen in your life, which
I have such memories of, and Carrie pulls the antenna
(37:58):
up with her teeth, which is like so enjoyable, you guys,
and he flips open the thing like it's just so great.
And I remember these things so well, and for us,
we were just so thrilled to have them, like, you know,
to have an actual cell phone as clunky and strange
as it was very exciting in the day. So they
call her together and Carrie looks kind of nervous, like
(38:20):
she understands that Skipper is being like too needy and
that Miranda is not going to be into it, but
she doesn't quite know how to tell Skipper because he's like,
you know, very puppy energy and you know, like pick me.
And so then you know that Miranda has gone out
with a modelizer, right, which is obviously not a wise choice,
(38:41):
but how was she to know? And so she kicks
him to the curb, thank goodness, and she's so funny.
I mean, oh, I didn't even talk about the group scene.
Oh my gosh, you guys welcome to my mind. So
we have to back up. We have to back up
to the group scene, the one scene that Charlotte's said.
I do have so many memories of the scene because
it was the first time that we're in Carrie's apart.
We have Carrie's real apartment, though it also shows the
(39:04):
coffee shop sign and Neon from the pilot, so it's
an interesting jextaposition of the old with the new. But
it is Carrie's apartment, though it's not fully worked out yet,
but it's like the blueprint the set that we would
come to know and love, and we're all together. It
is the one and only time that we were told
(39:25):
that we could add lib. After that, it never happened again.
It was very, very very frowned upon after this. But
it was the sweetest reason why in this particular scene,
we're talking about models and men who only date women
who are models, and you know how we feel about
that or whatever? Does it make us feel less than
(39:47):
I think it's something like that, Carrie asked us, and
then we were each supposed to say what we felt
insecure about, and the writers didn't want to write that
on paper, so that was very sweet of them not
to want to write what they thought that we you
would feel self conscious about, to let us add lib
what we felt self conscious about, which was really kind.
It was also like four in the morning. This was
(40:07):
the beginning of our well, no, the pilot. Actually, I
think when I'm on the stairs of the met is
like four in the morning. We filmed all night long,
almost all the time. We would start Monday f five am,
and each day would get longer and longer because we
had night exteriors. Because as you remember a lot of
the show in the beginning, especially, we're out and about
at night. We're on the streets at night blah blah
(40:28):
blah blah blah. So we had to wait for nighttime,
which meant we had to film later and later as
the week went on. So as the week went on,
like we'd film probably Wednesday night till two, Thursday night
till four. By the time we got to Friday night,
we would film until the sun came up on Saturday
every single week, and then you'd have to turn yourself
back around by Monday morning to go to work at five.
It was a lot, okay. And also back then, we
(40:52):
really felt like we could never say this publicly like that.
We just had to be like, we're fine, We're great,
we love our show so much, and we're having so
much fun, because that's what everyone wild always say, like
is there so much fun? You'd be like yes, now,
mind you. Also, on the weekend, I had a pair
of shoes that was the whole size too big because
my feet would be so swollen because I wasn't used
to wearing these shoes. Everyone always says like, oh, the shoes.
I'm like, yeah, it's hard. It's a thing. It's not
(41:15):
just like easy. And this is obviously a long time ago.
So I would have a certain pair of shoes I
would wear all weekend that my feet could just be
swollen in. And then hopefully by the end of the weekend,
the short weekend, they would be back ready at five
am on Monday to be putting those minolas back on.
But it did take Pat a little while to get
me in the minolo's. So right when we see this
(41:35):
first episode, I'm wearing some boots. I think they're mine.
I don't know, They're not good Okay, Pat has not
worked her magic on me yet. It's begune and I'm
stressing about it, but it has not really fully happened.
So when we do do this scene in Sara Juska
Carrie's apartment, sorry, I can't keep us straight. It is
(41:58):
the wee hours and we are living and absolutely Kim
ad libs like she like touches Cynthia's face at one
point or whatever. I mean, it was really I just
remember giggling and that it was fun and exciting. And
then I also thought, and this is just because I'm
the only one here right now, I'm going to tell
you my own thoughts on myself. Previous to this show,
I had been on well, I had done some guest
(42:19):
star things in between, but I'd been on Melroe's Place,
Darren's other show, right, and when you were on and
Aaron Spelling Soap Opera, there were a lot of rules,
and the rules were non negotiable, and the rules had
to do with the fact that they wanted to do
three sizes of a camera shot on you, one of
which was a super close up that would literally cut
(42:41):
your hairline off right like be like your eyes and
your mouth, and to do that you had to hold
really still. So I played this character Brook who worked
in this office with Billy and Allison on Heatherlockler's character,
and I used to say like, oh, couldn't I have
some props? And they'd say like, well, why would you
want some prop? And I'd be like, well, we're working right,
(43:01):
Like like should I write something down? It'd be like no, no,
don't do that. They'd be like why why why wouldn't
I write something down? Aren't I supposed to be working?
And they were like, well, you can't look down? And
I'm like, what do you mean? What do you mean
I can't look down now? Mind you, I'd spent the
last fifteen years in acting class where they're just trying
to talk to you about being natural and doing things
and you know, being not self conscious or whatever, and
(43:23):
so then you're on a show that's like, no, you
can't look down, you can't have props, you can't do anything.
You have to just stare at the other person like
hardcore okay. And you can't change your hair. That was
the other Aaron Spelling thing, because he didn't want hair
in your face because you wanted to see your eyes. Okay, now,
I kind of get it because eyes are the windows
to the soul. But on the other hand, as an actor,
it's pretty hard. It's pretty hard to do that. So
(43:45):
when I watch myself in the scene with everybody in
the group scene, I'm just trying to be natural. I'm
just trying to be present. I'm eating, I'm touching my hair,
I'm touching my face. I'm you know, just trying to
be like un self conscious and in the show that
we're trying to make, which is much more realistic, you
know what I'm saying, like not like TV in the
(44:08):
way that I was, you know previously in So that
was one of the things I thought about watching watching
the Four of Us with the Chinese food, like, yes,
I'm eating. That was a big thing on our show. Yes,
we always ate, No, we almost, I don't. I can't
think of a time we had a spit bucket because
we're in a scene. You can't stop and spit food
out in a spit bucket. That doesn't work. You have
(44:30):
to keep talking. As you know, it's going to be
a Miranda like signature. I mean, you know, they would
like challenge her like how much food can you get
in your mouth? And Cynthia was ready. She was ready.
She's like, I'm going to go for it. We'd I'll
be like, oh my god, maybe it's too much. She'd
be like no, But it was so much fun to watch,
so to me that all of that is there in
the beginning, Okay, Skipper, Skipper, Skipper Skipper, and Miranda are adorable,
(44:55):
So he's there, he is. I don't even know that
we ever have a guy care character who is like him. Again,
I don't think we do. Where he's just like calling
her and calling her and calling her and kind of needy,
and everyone's thinking it's not going to work out. Then
they run into each other in the bodega, which is
also so New York and so adorable, and he very
(45:17):
beautifully tells her at the checkout that she's luminous, and
she is luminous and it just melts her cold heart.
So it's such a great, great, great scene and I
love it so much. And then he wants to finish
paying for his Captain crunch I believe or something, and
she's like, there's cereal at my house, which is so great.
(45:40):
There's cereal at my apartment, I believe. She says it's
so classic and great. So for me, there are such great, great,
great moments in this episode where you really see this
huge potential. But then there's also just really really strange
things like this dude who's filming model secretly having sex
with him. Right, So it's a very mixed thing. But oh,
(46:02):
the other thing I was gonna say is that, so
we filmed these whole we'd done the pilot obviously, and
then we filmed twelve more episodes before anything came on
the air. And one of the great things is that
HBO allowed us to find ourselves, right, So like we
would kind of, you know, shift this way and shift
that way, and one script might seem more pushing the boundaries,
(46:24):
like I would say this episode, and then a different
script might seem more comedic. And remember Darren, sometimes he
would come down the writer's rooms in the studio where
we were in Silver Cup at this point on Long
Island City. It's still there. It used to be a
bread factory. It's a very charming place. It's kind of
falling down, but we love it. And he would come
down sometimes and he'd be like, you know, you guys
(46:45):
got to be sexy. You gotta be sexy. And I'd
say like me, really me, are you sure me? And
he'd be like, yes, all of you, all of you.
And we'd be like okay. We kind of look at
each other. And then a different week he'd come down
and he'd be like, you guys, gotta be funny. You
gotta be funny. And we'd be like, okay, uh, are
you is there a rewrite? Like did something change in
(47:07):
the script? You'd be like, no, just make it funny.
We'd be like, okay, okay, Darren, Okay. So there was,
you know, definitely a growing period of the show and
the fact that HBO allowed us to kind of, you know,
slightly flail around a bit. I hope it's okay that
I'm saying this, because when I watch them, I am
really just like, it's been a long time. I vaguely,
(47:29):
vaguely remember this stuff, but like I one percent did
not remember this filming the model secretly part like it
is crazy. But I do also feel like, you know,
we've come a long way in some of these areas.
I mean, some of these areas we haven't, and then
some of these areas we have. And I think back then,
you know, I think that relationships and sexuality were kind
(47:54):
of seen from the male gaze more often than not,
at least in entertainment, so like in films, because that's
really where you saw sexuality. You didn't really see it
in television so much, right, So that was kind of
one of the ways that we started pushing that boundary.
And then what I think happened my perspective on it
is that as we kind of found ourselves and Michael
(48:16):
Patrick came, and other writers came, more women writers came,
we became more grounded in the fact that we were
about investigating things from the female perspective and not from
the male gaze, not from the male perspective, where we're
(48:36):
just trying to kind of deal with it and make
the best of it as we can, which is what
I feel like poor Kerrie's trying to do in that
one scene with the dude. You know, she's like hah,
you know, like kind of nervously laughing, but she's sitting there,
you know, it's very fascinating. But then she definitely tells
Samantha like, do not go there, you know what I mean.
So it's not like she thought, oh, it's fine, right,
(48:57):
So it's I think a very interesting thing, and I
think something that we'll be talking about more. And I'm
super curious what you guys think of it, meaning those
points of like, you know, did you feel uncomfortable watching
that or did you feel like, oh, yeah, this stuff
happens and let's uncover it, let's see it, let's see
(49:20):
it for what it is. And I do think also
that it should be said that I think that Candice
had a very non judgmental, you know quality. She was like,
I'm a social anthropologist and I'm uncovering what's going on
and I'm not judging it. And in that way, she
was kind of ahead of her time. I would say,
you know, I feel like now, in many ways, society's
(49:40):
much more non judgmental and like, well, this is what
you're into, but also there has to be consent hopefully.
I mean that's how I feel, at least as someone
with the daughter. I think we're there. I don't know
what do you guys think? I want to know from
you guys. All right? Those were my's dream of consciousness
(50:05):
thoughts about episode two, Season one, Models and Mortals. Thanks
for being with me everyone. Next week we have an
amazing guest. I can't wait. All right, bye,
Host
Kristin Davis
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