August 6, 2020 • 33 mins
You don’t have to be a parent to recognize that parenting during COVID is a struggle. When the coronavirus shut down daycare facilities and schools across the country in March, parents became not only full time caretakers, but also teachers, coaches and playdates for their suddenly isolated kids. And working parents — those lucky enough to be able to keep their jobs or work remotely during the shutdown — have had to also find time in the day to do the job that pays the bills. For single working parents, or black or brown parents, that impossible situation, that non-existent work-life balance, is an even heavier burden to bear. But this isn’t new for Christine Michel Carter. In fact, the marketing strategist, working-mom advocate and best-selling author has been “Chicken Little” for the past five years, running around telling everyone the work-life balance sky was falling. COVID just exacerbated the reality. “The world is exposed to the fact that even in married two-income households — unlike mine — women are three times more likely to be the spouse who carries the additional burden of the mental load of just everything that’s going on,” she says. On this episode of Back to Biz with Katie and Boz, co-host Bozoma Saint John talks with Christine about about how to build a better employer-employee relationship, one that doesn’t compartmentalize mothers and fathers, but allows people to bring their whole selves — kids, school mishaps, doctor appointments, birthday parties and all — to the office (or the zoom meeting). Christine and Boz share their own struggles of being a parent in the corporate world, how communities of color are disproportionately affected, and what that so-called work-life balance could look like on the other side of this pandemic.
Check out Christine Michel Carter’s book, “Mom AF.”
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
All right, y'all. Hello, Hello, Hello again. I'm Bozma st.
John and this is Back to Biz with Katie and
Bose and my co host Katie Current is still out.
She is finishing up her book and she'll be back
next week. I promised this time, she'll really be back.
It won't just be me by myself, I promise. But
this week, this week, we have something so special and
(00:22):
Juice say, it's a very sensitive topic and a personal one. Parenting.
It's it's an industry like any other that we've discussed
on this podcast, but it is essential to running this country,
and it's never gotten the resources, time, respect, or attention
(00:42):
that it's needed in order to succeed, you know what
I mean. Like we talked about bailouts all the time,
but where is the parenting bailout? Right? I mean, I
think I need one. The pandemic has thrown working parents
into them possible situations, and we often wonder what we
survive it. I mean, I don't even know if I
was able to survive fifth grade math, and now we're
(01:03):
head into sixth grade and I don't know what that's
going to be like. But if we come out of this,
will we come out of it with a better work
life balance. I don't know. Well, we're gonna we're gonna
talk about it. Today. We have a very special guest,
Christine Michelle Carter, who is going to help me suss
out all of these topics, all of these questions and
(01:25):
hopefully give us the light to lead us in the
right direction. So welcome Christine, Thank you for joining me today.
Thank you so much for having me. I am so
thrilled to be on the podcast. Oh, thank you, thank you,
thank you for being here. Because you know this is
this is a big topic. There are so many challenges
that we've been facing. Um and although there have been
(01:46):
many jokes made about parenting in the time of COVID,
it is not a joke. It really isn't. So you
are a writer, your public speaker, your marketing strategist. Girl,
you've got a lot of time. Uh, but you've also
built a career out of advocating for working moms and
black women. Hello. So, so can you tell us a
(02:09):
little bit about that? How did you become such a
prominent voice for working moms? So you forgot one of
my titles, which is Chicken Little, Because I ran around
telling everybody that the work life balanced sky was falling
years ago, and people accused me of being unreasonably afraid
and dismissed me. But now people are saying, you know what, Christine,
the sky is falling. It's crazy because I've been writing
(02:32):
about the housework gap and the challenges that working mother's
face for the past five years. UM. I started writing
about it, UM when I ended up having to pump
in the bathroom stall after I gave birth to my daughter,
and I just thought it was absolutely ridiculous. I had
no idea what it meant to be a working mom
until I became one, and I think if you learned
(02:52):
at that point, it's too late. I've been writing about
the recession two years ago, and I knew that there
was gonna be an event that was gonna shift the
sustainability of our so called work life balance, and that
event was COVID. You know, the world is exposed to
the fact now that even in mary to income households
(03:12):
unlike mine, women are three times more likely to be
the spouse who carries the additional burden of the mental
load of just everything that's going on. And you know,
it costs uh sixteen thousand dollars in lost wages, and
for every dollar a man makes, we make just seventy one.
Sense And you know, men, even when we work remote,
(03:34):
they're more likely in the same situation and the same
job to make a hundred thousand dollars or more, three
times more likely in fact, than us. And this is
stuff that I've been writing about for years. So it's
it's crazy to me that all of a sudden the
world is listening when I have been crying out for
so many working mothers for so long. Yes, yes, yes, yes,
(03:54):
well I mean I I am so of course impressed
by your uh predicted of accounting what was coming. I'm like,
you got any other tips to give us, um, And
I'm sure we'll get to that. But it is very difficult,
especially because we are, um no longer saddled with distractions,
right that are outside of our homes, um, and we
(04:17):
are bringing the things that used to be outside inside
and so of course that's a big stress, you know,
on relationships, on parenting, etcetera. UM, what are some of
the struggles that that you're facing. You have two kids, right,
eight year old Maya and five year old West. I
have an eleven year old daughter, Leel and being a
(04:39):
single working mom with a child of course of school
ages a difficult, difficult thing. Um. But as you said,
you know you have certainly faced some challenges that you
had to make really difficult decisions about in order to
get to a place of peace. Can you talk though
about some of those challenge ranges and struggles that you
(05:01):
faced in some depth that would allow for us to
get a better sense of, uh, what you were actually
dealing with and then how how you came out of it.
So I guess I'm grateful that I went through a
divorce because I was preparing my children on how to
handle traumatic events prior to COVID even happening. So as
(05:21):
a single mother, I had to have very honest and
transparent conversations about my children when it came to work.
They understand that if my office door is closed, you
better be dying or bleeding and then you can come in. Um. Again,
very frank and candid. And I find that with mothers
that we do so much and we try so hard
(05:43):
to protect our children and shield them for the world
and just make sure that we are the barrier between
them and anything negative. That it's an emotional strain on us,
and it also doesn't prepare our children for the real world.
So in exposing my children to the that yes, your
father has an alcohol problem, he has depression. Your mother
(06:04):
is a single mom. Sometimes she has to work, sometimes
she has to travel for work. Exposing them to the
realities of their world makes them more well rounded and
balanced children who can adapt to change, versus trying to
shield them from everything. I feel like we're at a
point now where COVID has just exposed our world, our
(06:25):
personal and our professional worlds. Everything is out of whack.
We're constantly disrupted, and it requires us to shift our thinking.
If you have were already having very honest and transparent
conversations with your children or even with your employer as
a working mom, then you're probably the ones who are thriving.
Those who were trying to be that barrier for their
(06:47):
children or hide their authentic cells at work as a mother,
those are the ones who are struggling. Yes, okay, we're
gonna put a real quick pin in that employer relationship.
You know. One of the biggest challenges I faced as
a single parent. My my husband passed away from cancer
about seven years ago, and um in that in that trauma,
(07:12):
I had to find ways to ask for help. I
was so used to doing everything myself, you know, strong
black woman over here, Hello. I was so used to
going and trying to succeed. And you know, you don't
you don't ask for help because that's just a sign
of weakness, right, And so how and if, if, maybe
(07:33):
do you ask for help? And how do you do
it in your life even now? Because it's like people
can't come inside, right, So how are you getting help?
What happens? Tons of people can't come inside, but some can.
And it's so interesting. Many women actually have cited that
COVID reminds them of past trauma. And for me, it
definitely reminded me of what it meant to separate from
(07:57):
my husband and how I tried to blow through it
full steam head, strong black woman like you just said,
and how I really suffered. It's it's funny because many
moms are feeling like they're not important anywhere right now,
and it's accelerated burnout. It's that hold emotional and physical
and mental exhaustion from just having excessive and prolonged stress.
(08:18):
And I find that, you know, when I hit that
moment I'm very aware of when I'm about to reach it.
Some women may not be, but it's you have to
recognize it and then be real about your bandwidth. And
you know you're not a superwoman. You have to think
about what really drives you and really inspires you and prioritize.
(08:38):
And I know that for me. Whenever I have trouble
focusing on daily activities, or my anxiety is starting to
make me feel out of control, or I just can't
manage my emotions, then I have to take a step
back and lean on my tribe. And that could be
just getting emotional support through social media. You're right, people
don't have to be in my house, or I can
(08:59):
roll I on a couple a handful of people to
actually come and help me and give me a relief.
And that would be my aunt and my my brother
and my mom. Gosh, yes, he really do need to
ask for help, um, because burnout is real, it is even.
And that's the thing though, is that, like, how do
you recognize that it's coming? You just said that you
(09:22):
know it's coming. How do you know it's coming. I
know it's coming because if I can't focus on my
day to day work, even like the simplest things. And
if my anxiety is literally starting to make my hands
shake and I have to sit down because I'm just
like so frantic, That's how I know I'm about to
hit burnout. Professionally, I've always known that burnout is the
(09:44):
third stage of um the first stage being imposter syndrome,
the second stage being summit syndrome. And then when I
hit burnout, I know that, you know, it's like the
point of no return. But it took me a really
long time to to understand those those different tiers and
what it meant for myself go through those steps. Please, Yeah,
(10:08):
so there's no problem because because we need the steps.
You know, I need a map, Okay, these are the
steps to burn out. So so, imposter syndrome is just
that feeling like you don't belong and for me, I
would constantly feel that as a black woman who's successful
in the workplace, I'm also a millennial. I always felt
(10:29):
like I didn't belong in the room. So to combat
that before I hit step two, I used to keep
a list of my accomplishments and didn't feel bad about
advocating for myself in the workplace, reminding myself everybody about
my accomplishments, because we all know that performance reviews don't matter.
It's about what you do that day that really matters.
(10:50):
Um But if if I let my imposter syndrome get
out of control, then I knew I was hitting Summit syndrome,
which was that feeling of chasing an unattainable corps it high.
So just trying to get as many accolades and rewards,
and you know, team hustle and team do it all
the most. And like I look at this week and
I've shot a Walmart commercial, I'm talking to you, I
(11:11):
got a promotion at work. Like I'm in Summach syndrome hardcore.
So I'm gonna use this weekend to make sure I
don't hit burnout. And burnout is really that state where
you know, it's the mental exhaustion and the physical exhaustion
of all of that stress and trying to chase those
highs and trying to feel like you belong. I think
(11:33):
we can end the podcast on that, because I mean,
I don't I don't think there's anywhere else to go.
We're gonna take a quick break, but when we come back,
the hot topic issue schools to go back or not
to go back. Now, that is the question you're listening to.
(11:55):
Back to Biz with Katie and Bows and Christine and
I have so much get into about working moms in
the workplace, and I have my own stories on this.
I mean I share one with Christine about after I
gave birth to Layel and I was a new mom
returning back to the office and the advice I got,
so let's go there. When I had first had my daughter,
(12:18):
I was so proud of her, you know, and she
was so cute bias, hello, she's the cutest, uh. And
I was working at Pepsi at the time, and you know,
pretty successful, you know, getting promotions and all of that.
Hot shot I felt like. And I put my picture
of my daughter proudly on my desk, and well meaning
(12:39):
colleague came and told me that I should take her
picture down because people wouldn't take me seriously and they
would think that my priorities had shifted. And so I
didn't want that if I wanted to continue to accelerate.
Now throw in this situation where you may have, of course,
your kids are running around, Like you said, you shut
(12:59):
your office during your kids know not to come in there.
But there are things that happened and they disrupt the day,
and they disrupt meetings, and you know, you're thinking about
dinner or you're thinking about the homework that you couldn't
complete and all of those things. How how, how how
do you even open your mouth to say anything to
your employer? And how do you do it? What do
(13:21):
you say in order to remain feeling in control? And
at some point that guests trying to get empathy for
where you are. Yeah, so first let's just take a moment.
I have to, as a young black mom, thank you.
I'm in consumer goods, so I want to thank you
for paving the way because that is a very traditional industry.
(13:43):
And if it wasn't for women like you being authentic
and bringing your whole self to work and hanging up
pictures of your you know, two pounder like me, you're
nicky baby, then it wouldn't there wouldn't be room for
me to be having these conversations with my employer, with
other women to be able to have the conversations with
their employer. But um, I definitely think that if employers
(14:06):
want the best versions of their employees, then it's time
to walk the walk that because you've been talking the
talk for so long. There are so many moms right
now who are feeling out of balance and disadvantaged and stress,
and all of that is normal. We're going through a pandemic.
We were already at a disadvantage as working moms before COVID,
(14:28):
and as we lose the world that we knew, it's
natural to feel anger and fear and anxiety and loss.
We are we're not remote working. We're trying to work
in parent during a crisis, and it's a lot, and
it's normal for us to be triggered and to parallel
that to grief and to feel like we're bargaining or
field denial or sadness, all of the emotions that go
(14:51):
through grief. So instead of spending our wheels trying to
handle that kind of grief internally or worrying about obligations
we know we'll never get to or don't remember, we
need to let others in the workplace know that we
need help. You know, we we need to let our
partners know that we have to put them in charge
of two dues. We have to take advantage of technology,
(15:13):
using things like Zoom and using UM digital workspaces with colleagues,
and we have to stop feeling guilty that we're not superwomen. UM.
I think a big thing is we need to understand
the value of buffer space and communicating buffer space to
our employers. So it's one thing to say, I gotta
go feed my kids. I'll be right back, but you
(15:34):
won't be right back because you need to take the
time to prep. You need to take the time to
make sure the kids are eating, you need to decompress
from that and then get back into work. And and
we seem to not value buffer space UM and communicating
the importance of that to employers because booking meetings back
to back is draining, especially if their conference calls, so
(15:55):
you know, jumping from work immediately into helping kids is
draining too. We we have to take advantage of that,
take advantage of employee assistance programs, make sure that our
employers are walking the walk. And we have to use
our time off. Um. And that is something that a
lot of working mothers are very afraid to do, very
afraid to bring their authentic selves to the workplace and
(16:17):
say I need to take time off, I need to
take a mental break. But um, if you'll allow me
just one more minute. There's a vicious cycle that people
aren't aware of that occurs in the workplace. So what
ends up happening is moms get anxious about appearing uncommitted
to their jobs, so they and other caregivers opt out
(16:37):
of taking advantage of employee benefits. What happens is that
leads employers to think that moms and caregivers are fine
and can manage, and then that makes them feel that
they don't need to invest in caregiving benefits or sometimes
even track data associated with caregiving. So then that lack
of data leads to no changes in policy to support
(16:59):
care givers. So what ends up happening to moms and
caregivers They feel unsupported by employers, and then they struggle
to keep up with performance, and then that decline and
performance leads to stigmas and biases for other caregivers. So
I can't stress it enough that that cycle breaks if
you're burned out and you take advantage of those corporate benefits,
(17:23):
because it not only benefits you and the men your
mental health and the long term um, but it also
serves as a signal to employers that you're under strain,
and other caregivers in the office might be too the
kind of notes that I'm taking. Okay, we've learned about
impostor syndrome, SIM syndrome and burnout, and now we're talking
(17:46):
about the vicious cycle of benefits I mean, okay, so
switching gears a little bit. Right. Um, we're still talking
about parenting in the age of COVID, So let's talk
about school and going back to school, because that's a
hot topic. I got the survey from my daughter school
that asked me, right how comfortable I would feel if
she went back in person. Um, you know, do I
(18:10):
trust that they would have the you know, ability to
make the school safe? Do I want online learning? Oh?
My goodness, the survey. It gave me anxiety just looking
at the survey. You know. But the American Academy of
Pediatrics just release a statement in July saying that students
are should be physically present in school as much as
(18:30):
possible in the fall. Um, But there are many people
who don't want to do that, you know, who are
really really worried about their kids, uh, not just going
to school. But then on the other side, they're scared
if they don't go to school, they'll have an academic
social and emotional learning issues, Like there's so many challenges.
(18:51):
What is your thought about about this particular issue on
returning to school, to go back or not to go back?
What do you think? And what's happening where you are?
So and let me tell you something. I've got a
lot of thoughts on this. Okay. So, so you know,
teachers and the unions are pushing back against plans to
open the schools, and it's causing tensions with the parents
(19:14):
and the lawmakers. And there are some early predictions about
what school is gonna look like in the fall, but
they're just that because the classroom sizes are on a
much smaller scale at the summer school level, and it
doesn't include the regular volume of students. And then there's
talks of parents hoping to share teaching among parents. I
(19:34):
know a woman who's turning her basement into a homeschooling
center and creating homeschooling pods and hiring teachers. And yes,
that is a schooling option that feels safe. But it
and it allows kids to have fun and it and
it builds social schools, and it offers parents a break,
but they're pricey, and it's a privilege and it's complicated,
(19:56):
and it comes with its own homeschooling laws and going
to cause educational inequity. And that's just at the school level.
What really grinds my gears is childcare. And you know,
as I'm I'm out of the childcare realm right now.
I have a fourth grader and a kindergartener. But the
(20:20):
state and local officials in these schools and Congress needs
to know that we need a robust plan for childcare.
It's got to be a part of the plan to
reopen schools because childcare is the second largest monthly expense
for families after their mortgage or rent. In some instances
it's as much. And there are states that have shown
(20:41):
that they lose about a billion dollars annually and economic
activity because of childcare because there is no childcare, adequate
childcare available. I'm in one of those states. I'm in Maryland.
Childcare is it plays a critical role in people's ability
to work UM. Lower income households right now don't have
(21:03):
the economic resources to afford high quality childcare UM. According
to Paid Leave for the u S, which is an
organization I support, Paid Family and medical leave is paid
time away from work or for welcoming a new child,
can for a family member, or caring for your own
medical crisis without the fear of losing your job. And
right now, the US is the only industrialized country without
(21:25):
a policy, which means that one in four moms are
gonna go back to work in the fall within ten
days of giving birth. It means that people of color
and low wage working people are more likely to need
access to paid leave, but the least likely to have
it they're the ones of their essential employees. And then
the pandemic that looks like the grocery store employees that
(21:46):
we need, the delivery drivers, the health care workers not
having any paid leave to take care of themselves, their
kids or family member, and that's just it's dangerous and
it's wrong. Gosh, well, let's dog, let's dig a little
deeper into that piece, because you just brought up such
an important point about, of course, disparity. It's not a
new topic to us. We've we've been talking about this
(22:07):
a long time, and obviously it's not just even COVID,
but we see, of course the newly awakened racial and
social unrest um challenges that we see in the disparity
of how COVID is affecting brown and black communities. Um,
can you talk a little bit about that and about
how uh this time and even education and taking care
(22:30):
of our kids is disproportionately affecting communities of color. I
wrote an article for Forbes and Partnership. I found a
stat with lean in and basically they were looking at
data around childcare, and I wanted to break it out further,
and I found that black women during the pandemic spend
(22:51):
half a day more on childcare per week than white women.
So if you put that into perspective, I believe you're
in California, right, Yes, I am so send California stay
at home orders went into effect on March nineteenth. To date,
black women in that state have spent nearly two hundred
and thirty hours more on childcare, just on childcare than
(23:12):
their white counterparts. Yeah. Yeah, and you know, and it's
we're not crazy. The pandemic is hitting black moms harder.
We're more likely to be at risk from a medical
perspective more, we're more likely the women without children to
show signs of emotional, physical, cognitive, and behavioral stress in
the workplace anyway, including insomnia and heart problems were more
(23:35):
likely to be single moms, and the absence and lack
of involvement from our child's father contributes to the decline
of our health. So we were already disproportionately affected before
there was even a conversation about COVID or going back
to school. We spend nearly three times more hours per
week caring for our elderly or sick relatives. We live
(23:55):
in multigenerational homes, so it's it's very difficult to be
a black mom right now and going through this and
then thinking about how do I go to work and
have my child be in school. It's it's very dangerous.
It's it's worrisome, and I think that we're living through
a public health crisis and we need to ensure that
(24:17):
most of our women have paid sick days and paid
leave to actually keep the schools in public spaces safe.
I mean, we can't reopen without protections. It's paid leave
isn't just a benefit. It's a need for black women.
It's a need for all women and for families, and
for teachers, and if schools open, teachers need paid leave
to keep themselves and their students safe, and parents need it.
(24:39):
Not just to welcome new children, but to also make
sure that the older kids are healthy and safe and
able to learn when we come back. Child care isn't
a personal issue. It's a public issue. More with Christine
Michelle Carter. In just a moment, you're listening to Back
(25:02):
to Biz with Kay and Bows, and we're talking about
all the inequities and the disparities of being a black
or a brown mom. Right now, my question for Christina
is how can we give these moms a break? So
here's the gag. I read about this a while ago.
If you fix childcare and provide access to high quality childcare,
(25:25):
it advances progress on racial and economic equity. And people
really don't realize that. So once employers, once non government
companies like public and private sector, recognize the fact that
childcare is an economic development opportunity and it actually costs
state millions of dollars and and and lost income and
(25:49):
lost economic stimulus to their area, then we will solve it.
But right now, people think of childcare as a personal issue. Oh,
that's that woman's problem. She's a mom, and not a
community issue. So we need to treat childcare like we
treat public school and healthcare like an essential service that
is affordable and accessible for everybody, and it needs to
(26:13):
address the short term economic threat that we're facing with COVID,
but then also a more sustainable business model for the
childcare operators because right now they don't know if the
employers are coming back, and it's costly to operate to
it's a high demand and a low supply. So once
we treat that like it is a public issue and
(26:34):
it's an economic development opportunity, will then see a little
bit more racial and economic equity. Right, So then what
are the effects after the pandemic? Right? So if we
are advocating for this change in um not just policy,
but responsibility of non governmental businesses and organization sations, how
(27:01):
do we actually continue that conversation after we're not talking
a lot about after the pandemic? You know, people you
say going back to normal, and we realize now that
that's that's not a possibility and we actually don't want
it to be, right because a lot of what we're
facing we recognize as needs to change a system, this
(27:22):
being a very big one. But then what happens, So,
how how do you see this actually coming into effect?
And then how is our world different? Because of it.
So I can see two different scenarios happen. You know,
we get the paid leave and the medical leave for families,
and life just changes overnight like that for so many
(27:44):
different and disproportionately affected groups within our country. UM, I
see it happening as benefits happen within organizations, but on
a larger scale where people are reluctant to take the
support or they are viewed negatively for taking the support.
But there are so many organizations who have been fighting
(28:05):
this fight even pre COVID, like mom Congress and paid
leave for the US and you know Senators and the
Maternal Care Act and the Cares Act. There's so many
different initiatives a final Lawson's act Um that I wrote
about for for so many different that are trying to
support providing equity and fair solutions for folks who do
(28:28):
have children or or folks who are UM the minority,
which we know is actually the majority majority right now.
But so that would be the positive scenario. But I
actually am a big believer in history repeating itself, and
to me, the worst case scenario, which is if we
don't act, we could be faced with a repeat of
World War two, post world War two where men returned
(28:51):
from combat and women returned to the home. After the
surge of women in the workforce in twenty that could
look like women struggling to find childcare being force out
of the workforce. New rules for child care centers to
reduce the number of children per group were already there. Um,
we know that there's a there was a about one
fifth of parents who planned on having a nanny, and
(29:13):
turned out that only three percent were able to make
it a reality because of the supply and the demand.
We know that twenty three million working parents have no
access to a childcare provider. So you know, it's a
dangerous situation and it's very it's very likely that women
could be put back into the person post World War
two area where they pushed out of the workforce. Um,
(29:35):
which is extremely dangerous because a quarter of all children
in the US live with a single parent, higher than
anywhere else in the world. And not only are we
single parents, but again we're caring for family and friends.
So that's worst case scenario. God forbid that happens. I'm
hoping for the change like that that happens overnight. That
so many different nonprofits have been advocating for and are
(29:56):
prepared for. Yeah, oh my goodness, well you you certainly,
um you said the word in their hope. You know,
I am, I'm an optimist. You look at an optimist
as well. I mean, you're you're laying out the facts,
but all the facts are leading to a better future, hopefully.
Um So, really, let's let's get to that. What gives
(30:17):
you hope? Because we have been talking so much about
the challenges that we are facing as parents, the greater
challenges faced as single parents, the greater greater challenge face
because we are black moms, we're saying parents. But what
gives you hope? Like, what gives you hope right now? Gosh,
(30:39):
what's giving me hope right now? Is the level of
empathy as skyrocketed from I'm sure if you did a
year over year chart, it would just be exponential. The
fact that, you know, it's unfortunate that colleagues have said
that Black Lives Matter started this year, because we know
(30:59):
it didn't. We know what it's like to go to
the workplace in and watch Philando Castile get murdered in
front of his child and have to continue working and
not get any type of empathy from our employers or
our team members, but to see, you know, God rest
his soul. George Floyd did not die in vain because
(31:20):
the the just the current state of empathy towards black
women in the workplace, and the I see you, and
I'm going to become an ally and I'm gonna pass
the baton and give you an opportunity to elevate your
voice on a mainstream level like share the mic. Now,
I participated in that. That that's unprecedented, you know. And
(31:41):
and then I think that COVID. Had COVID not happened
and caused us to remember what it's like to be
humans first and to show empathy and and show a
bit of humanity for our fellow man, I don't think
that there would have ever been such an acceleration in
the Black Lives Matter movement. So I don't think that
he I'm in vain. I don't like to think that
anybody who is suffering with COVID right now or who
(32:05):
has passed from COVID, died in vain. There has been
tremendous strides in humanity, especially in America right now, and
I'm very thankful for that. That was Christine Michelle Carter.
You can check out her book Mom a f and
keep up with all she's doing on Instagram. And that
(32:27):
does it for this week's episode of Back to Biz
with Katie and Bows. You can also follow Katie and
I on Instagram check out our favorite moments from these
episodes and all that we're doing. And there's tons of
other episodes of Back to Biz to catch up on.
So if you haven't done already, go ahead and binge.
Go find us on Apple podcast, the I Heart Radio app,
and wherever you can listen to your favorite shows. Katie's
(32:49):
back next week, but until then, I'm Bosma St John
and this is Back to Biz with Katie and Bows.
Thanks so much for listening. Back to Biz with Katie
(33:12):
and Bows is a production of I Heart Radio and
Katie Currik Media. The executive producers are Katie currk Bozmas
St John and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen.
The associate producers are Derek Clements, Eliza Costas and Emily Pinto.
Editing by Derrek Clements and Lauren Hansen. Mixing by Derrek Clements.
(33:32):
Special thanks to Adriana Fasio for more information. About today's episode,
go to Katie kirk dot com. You can also follow
Katie Kurrik and Bozma st John on Twitter and Instagram.
For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows,
All right, y'all. Hello, Hello, Hello again. I'm Bozma st.
John and this is Back to Biz with Katie and
Bose and my co host Katie Current is still out.
She is finishing up her book and she'll be back
next week. I promised this time, she'll really be back.
It won't just be me by myself, I promise. But
this week, this week, we have something so special and
(00:22):
Juice say, it's a very sensitive topic and a personal one. Parenting.
It's it's an industry like any other that we've discussed
on this podcast, but it is essential to running this country,
and it's never gotten the resources, time, respect, or attention
(00:42):
that it's needed in order to succeed, you know what
I mean. Like we talked about bailouts all the time,
but where is the parenting bailout? Right? I mean, I
think I need one. The pandemic has thrown working parents
into them possible situations, and we often wonder what we
survive it. I mean, I don't even know if I
was able to survive fifth grade math, and now we're
(01:03):
head into sixth grade and I don't know what that's
going to be like. But if we come out of this,
will we come out of it with a better work
life balance. I don't know. Well, we're gonna we're gonna
talk about it. Today. We have a very special guest,
Christine Michelle Carter, who is going to help me suss
out all of these topics, all of these questions and
(01:25):
hopefully give us the light to lead us in the
right direction. So welcome Christine, Thank you for joining me today.
Thank you so much for having me. I am so
thrilled to be on the podcast. Oh, thank you, thank you,
thank you for being here. Because you know this is
this is a big topic. There are so many challenges
that we've been facing. Um and although there have been
(01:46):
many jokes made about parenting in the time of COVID,
it is not a joke. It really isn't. So you
are a writer, your public speaker, your marketing strategist. Girl,
you've got a lot of time. Uh, but you've also
built a career out of advocating for working moms and
black women. Hello. So, so can you tell us a
(02:09):
little bit about that? How did you become such a
prominent voice for working moms? So you forgot one of
my titles, which is Chicken Little, Because I ran around
telling everybody that the work life balanced sky was falling
years ago, and people accused me of being unreasonably afraid
and dismissed me. But now people are saying, you know what, Christine,
the sky is falling. It's crazy because I've been writing
(02:32):
about the housework gap and the challenges that working mother's
face for the past five years. UM. I started writing
about it, UM when I ended up having to pump
in the bathroom stall after I gave birth to my daughter,
and I just thought it was absolutely ridiculous. I had
no idea what it meant to be a working mom
until I became one, and I think if you learned
(02:52):
at that point, it's too late. I've been writing about
the recession two years ago, and I knew that there
was gonna be an event that was gonna shift the
sustainability of our so called work life balance, and that
event was COVID. You know, the world is exposed to
the fact now that even in mary to income households
(03:12):
unlike mine, women are three times more likely to be
the spouse who carries the additional burden of the mental
load of just everything that's going on. And you know,
it costs uh sixteen thousand dollars in lost wages, and
for every dollar a man makes, we make just seventy one.
Sense And you know, men, even when we work remote,
(03:34):
they're more likely in the same situation and the same
job to make a hundred thousand dollars or more, three
times more likely in fact, than us. And this is
stuff that I've been writing about for years. So it's
it's crazy to me that all of a sudden the
world is listening when I have been crying out for
so many working mothers for so long. Yes, yes, yes, yes,
(03:54):
well I mean I I am so of course impressed
by your uh predicted of accounting what was coming. I'm like,
you got any other tips to give us, um, And
I'm sure we'll get to that. But it is very difficult,
especially because we are, um no longer saddled with distractions,
right that are outside of our homes, um, and we
(04:17):
are bringing the things that used to be outside inside
and so of course that's a big stress, you know,
on relationships, on parenting, etcetera. UM, what are some of
the struggles that that you're facing. You have two kids, right,
eight year old Maya and five year old West. I
have an eleven year old daughter, Leel and being a
(04:39):
single working mom with a child of course of school
ages a difficult, difficult thing. Um. But as you said,
you know you have certainly faced some challenges that you
had to make really difficult decisions about in order to
get to a place of peace. Can you talk though
about some of those challenge ranges and struggles that you
(05:01):
faced in some depth that would allow for us to
get a better sense of, uh, what you were actually
dealing with and then how how you came out of it.
So I guess I'm grateful that I went through a
divorce because I was preparing my children on how to
handle traumatic events prior to COVID even happening. So as
(05:21):
a single mother, I had to have very honest and
transparent conversations about my children when it came to work.
They understand that if my office door is closed, you
better be dying or bleeding and then you can come in. Um. Again,
very frank and candid. And I find that with mothers
that we do so much and we try so hard
(05:43):
to protect our children and shield them for the world
and just make sure that we are the barrier between
them and anything negative. That it's an emotional strain on us,
and it also doesn't prepare our children for the real world.
So in exposing my children to the that yes, your
father has an alcohol problem, he has depression. Your mother
(06:04):
is a single mom. Sometimes she has to work, sometimes
she has to travel for work. Exposing them to the
realities of their world makes them more well rounded and
balanced children who can adapt to change, versus trying to
shield them from everything. I feel like we're at a
point now where COVID has just exposed our world, our
(06:25):
personal and our professional worlds. Everything is out of whack.
We're constantly disrupted, and it requires us to shift our thinking.
If you have were already having very honest and transparent
conversations with your children or even with your employer as
a working mom, then you're probably the ones who are thriving.
Those who were trying to be that barrier for their
(06:47):
children or hide their authentic cells at work as a mother,
those are the ones who are struggling. Yes, okay, we're
gonna put a real quick pin in that employer relationship.
You know. One of the biggest challenges I faced as
a single parent. My my husband passed away from cancer
about seven years ago, and um in that in that trauma,
(07:12):
I had to find ways to ask for help. I
was so used to doing everything myself, you know, strong
black woman over here, Hello. I was so used to
going and trying to succeed. And you know, you don't
you don't ask for help because that's just a sign
of weakness, right, And so how and if, if, maybe
(07:33):
do you ask for help? And how do you do
it in your life even now? Because it's like people
can't come inside, right, So how are you getting help?
What happens? Tons of people can't come inside, but some can.
And it's so interesting. Many women actually have cited that
COVID reminds them of past trauma. And for me, it
definitely reminded me of what it meant to separate from
(07:57):
my husband and how I tried to blow through it
full steam head, strong black woman like you just said,
and how I really suffered. It's it's funny because many
moms are feeling like they're not important anywhere right now,
and it's accelerated burnout. It's that hold emotional and physical
and mental exhaustion from just having excessive and prolonged stress.
(08:18):
And I find that, you know, when I hit that
moment I'm very aware of when I'm about to reach it.
Some women may not be, but it's you have to
recognize it and then be real about your bandwidth. And
you know you're not a superwoman. You have to think
about what really drives you and really inspires you and prioritize.
(08:38):
And I know that for me. Whenever I have trouble
focusing on daily activities, or my anxiety is starting to
make me feel out of control, or I just can't
manage my emotions, then I have to take a step
back and lean on my tribe. And that could be
just getting emotional support through social media. You're right, people
don't have to be in my house, or I can
(08:59):
roll I on a couple a handful of people to
actually come and help me and give me a relief.
And that would be my aunt and my my brother
and my mom. Gosh, yes, he really do need to
ask for help, um, because burnout is real, it is even.
And that's the thing though, is that, like, how do
you recognize that it's coming? You just said that you
(09:22):
know it's coming. How do you know it's coming. I
know it's coming because if I can't focus on my
day to day work, even like the simplest things. And
if my anxiety is literally starting to make my hands
shake and I have to sit down because I'm just
like so frantic, That's how I know I'm about to
hit burnout. Professionally, I've always known that burnout is the
(09:44):
third stage of um the first stage being imposter syndrome,
the second stage being summit syndrome. And then when I
hit burnout, I know that, you know, it's like the
point of no return. But it took me a really
long time to to understand those those different tiers and
what it meant for myself go through those steps. Please, Yeah,
(10:08):
so there's no problem because because we need the steps.
You know, I need a map, Okay, these are the
steps to burn out. So so, imposter syndrome is just
that feeling like you don't belong and for me, I
would constantly feel that as a black woman who's successful
in the workplace, I'm also a millennial. I always felt
(10:29):
like I didn't belong in the room. So to combat
that before I hit step two, I used to keep
a list of my accomplishments and didn't feel bad about
advocating for myself in the workplace, reminding myself everybody about
my accomplishments, because we all know that performance reviews don't matter.
It's about what you do that day that really matters.
(10:50):
Um But if if I let my imposter syndrome get
out of control, then I knew I was hitting Summit syndrome,
which was that feeling of chasing an unattainable corps it high.
So just trying to get as many accolades and rewards,
and you know, team hustle and team do it all
the most. And like I look at this week and
I've shot a Walmart commercial, I'm talking to you, I
(11:11):
got a promotion at work. Like I'm in Summach syndrome hardcore.
So I'm gonna use this weekend to make sure I
don't hit burnout. And burnout is really that state where
you know, it's the mental exhaustion and the physical exhaustion
of all of that stress and trying to chase those
highs and trying to feel like you belong. I think
(11:33):
we can end the podcast on that, because I mean,
I don't I don't think there's anywhere else to go.
We're gonna take a quick break, but when we come back,
the hot topic issue schools to go back or not
to go back. Now, that is the question you're listening to.
(11:55):
Back to Biz with Katie and Bows and Christine and
I have so much get into about working moms in
the workplace, and I have my own stories on this.
I mean I share one with Christine about after I
gave birth to Layel and I was a new mom
returning back to the office and the advice I got,
so let's go there. When I had first had my daughter,
(12:18):
I was so proud of her, you know, and she
was so cute bias, hello, she's the cutest, uh. And
I was working at Pepsi at the time, and you know,
pretty successful, you know, getting promotions and all of that.
Hot shot I felt like. And I put my picture
of my daughter proudly on my desk, and well meaning
(12:39):
colleague came and told me that I should take her
picture down because people wouldn't take me seriously and they
would think that my priorities had shifted. And so I
didn't want that if I wanted to continue to accelerate.
Now throw in this situation where you may have, of course,
your kids are running around, Like you said, you shut
(12:59):
your office during your kids know not to come in there.
But there are things that happened and they disrupt the day,
and they disrupt meetings, and you know, you're thinking about
dinner or you're thinking about the homework that you couldn't
complete and all of those things. How how, how how
do you even open your mouth to say anything to
your employer? And how do you do it? What do
(13:21):
you say in order to remain feeling in control? And
at some point that guests trying to get empathy for
where you are. Yeah, so first let's just take a moment.
I have to, as a young black mom, thank you.
I'm in consumer goods, so I want to thank you
for paving the way because that is a very traditional industry.
(13:43):
And if it wasn't for women like you being authentic
and bringing your whole self to work and hanging up
pictures of your you know, two pounder like me, you're
nicky baby, then it wouldn't there wouldn't be room for
me to be having these conversations with my employer, with
other women to be able to have the conversations with
their employer. But um, I definitely think that if employers
(14:06):
want the best versions of their employees, then it's time
to walk the walk that because you've been talking the
talk for so long. There are so many moms right
now who are feeling out of balance and disadvantaged and stress,
and all of that is normal. We're going through a pandemic.
We were already at a disadvantage as working moms before COVID,
(14:28):
and as we lose the world that we knew, it's
natural to feel anger and fear and anxiety and loss.
We are we're not remote working. We're trying to work
in parent during a crisis, and it's a lot, and
it's normal for us to be triggered and to parallel
that to grief and to feel like we're bargaining or
field denial or sadness, all of the emotions that go
(14:51):
through grief. So instead of spending our wheels trying to
handle that kind of grief internally or worrying about obligations
we know we'll never get to or don't remember, we
need to let others in the workplace know that we
need help. You know, we we need to let our
partners know that we have to put them in charge
of two dues. We have to take advantage of technology,
(15:13):
using things like Zoom and using UM digital workspaces with colleagues,
and we have to stop feeling guilty that we're not superwomen. UM.
I think a big thing is we need to understand
the value of buffer space and communicating buffer space to
our employers. So it's one thing to say, I gotta
go feed my kids. I'll be right back, but you
(15:34):
won't be right back because you need to take the
time to prep. You need to take the time to
make sure the kids are eating, you need to decompress
from that and then get back into work. And and
we seem to not value buffer space UM and communicating
the importance of that to employers because booking meetings back
to back is draining, especially if their conference calls, so
(15:55):
you know, jumping from work immediately into helping kids is
draining too. We we have to take advantage of that,
take advantage of employee assistance programs, make sure that our
employers are walking the walk. And we have to use
our time off. Um. And that is something that a
lot of working mothers are very afraid to do, very
afraid to bring their authentic selves to the workplace and
(16:17):
say I need to take time off, I need to
take a mental break. But um, if you'll allow me
just one more minute. There's a vicious cycle that people
aren't aware of that occurs in the workplace. So what
ends up happening is moms get anxious about appearing uncommitted
to their jobs, so they and other caregivers opt out
(16:37):
of taking advantage of employee benefits. What happens is that
leads employers to think that moms and caregivers are fine
and can manage, and then that makes them feel that
they don't need to invest in caregiving benefits or sometimes
even track data associated with caregiving. So then that lack
of data leads to no changes in policy to support
(16:59):
care givers. So what ends up happening to moms and
caregivers They feel unsupported by employers, and then they struggle
to keep up with performance, and then that decline and
performance leads to stigmas and biases for other caregivers. So
I can't stress it enough that that cycle breaks if
you're burned out and you take advantage of those corporate benefits,
(17:23):
because it not only benefits you and the men your
mental health and the long term um, but it also
serves as a signal to employers that you're under strain,
and other caregivers in the office might be too the
kind of notes that I'm taking. Okay, we've learned about
impostor syndrome, SIM syndrome and burnout, and now we're talking
(17:46):
about the vicious cycle of benefits I mean, okay, so
switching gears a little bit. Right. Um, we're still talking
about parenting in the age of COVID, So let's talk
about school and going back to school, because that's a
hot topic. I got the survey from my daughter school
that asked me, right how comfortable I would feel if
she went back in person. Um, you know, do I
(18:10):
trust that they would have the you know, ability to
make the school safe? Do I want online learning? Oh?
My goodness, the survey. It gave me anxiety just looking
at the survey. You know. But the American Academy of
Pediatrics just release a statement in July saying that students
are should be physically present in school as much as
(18:30):
possible in the fall. Um, But there are many people
who don't want to do that, you know, who are
really really worried about their kids, uh, not just going
to school. But then on the other side, they're scared
if they don't go to school, they'll have an academic
social and emotional learning issues, Like there's so many challenges.
(18:51):
What is your thought about about this particular issue on
returning to school, to go back or not to go back?
What do you think? And what's happening where you are?
So and let me tell you something. I've got a
lot of thoughts on this. Okay. So, so you know,
teachers and the unions are pushing back against plans to
open the schools, and it's causing tensions with the parents
(19:14):
and the lawmakers. And there are some early predictions about
what school is gonna look like in the fall, but
they're just that because the classroom sizes are on a
much smaller scale at the summer school level, and it
doesn't include the regular volume of students. And then there's
talks of parents hoping to share teaching among parents. I
(19:34):
know a woman who's turning her basement into a homeschooling
center and creating homeschooling pods and hiring teachers. And yes,
that is a schooling option that feels safe. But it
and it allows kids to have fun and it and
it builds social schools, and it offers parents a break,
but they're pricey, and it's a privilege and it's complicated,
(19:56):
and it comes with its own homeschooling laws and going
to cause educational inequity. And that's just at the school level.
What really grinds my gears is childcare. And you know,
as I'm I'm out of the childcare realm right now.
I have a fourth grader and a kindergartener. But the
(20:20):
state and local officials in these schools and Congress needs
to know that we need a robust plan for childcare.
It's got to be a part of the plan to
reopen schools because childcare is the second largest monthly expense
for families after their mortgage or rent. In some instances
it's as much. And there are states that have shown
(20:41):
that they lose about a billion dollars annually and economic
activity because of childcare because there is no childcare, adequate
childcare available. I'm in one of those states. I'm in Maryland.
Childcare is it plays a critical role in people's ability
to work UM. Lower income households right now don't have
(21:03):
the economic resources to afford high quality childcare UM. According
to Paid Leave for the u S, which is an
organization I support, Paid Family and medical leave is paid
time away from work or for welcoming a new child,
can for a family member, or caring for your own
medical crisis without the fear of losing your job. And
right now, the US is the only industrialized country without
(21:25):
a policy, which means that one in four moms are
gonna go back to work in the fall within ten
days of giving birth. It means that people of color
and low wage working people are more likely to need
access to paid leave, but the least likely to have
it they're the ones of their essential employees. And then
the pandemic that looks like the grocery store employees that
(21:46):
we need, the delivery drivers, the health care workers not
having any paid leave to take care of themselves, their
kids or family member, and that's just it's dangerous and
it's wrong. Gosh, well, let's dog, let's dig a little
deeper into that piece, because you just brought up such
an important point about, of course, disparity. It's not a
new topic to us. We've we've been talking about this
(22:07):
a long time, and obviously it's not just even COVID,
but we see, of course the newly awakened racial and
social unrest um challenges that we see in the disparity
of how COVID is affecting brown and black communities. Um,
can you talk a little bit about that and about
how uh this time and even education and taking care
(22:30):
of our kids is disproportionately affecting communities of color. I
wrote an article for Forbes and Partnership. I found a
stat with lean in and basically they were looking at
data around childcare, and I wanted to break it out further,
and I found that black women during the pandemic spend
(22:51):
half a day more on childcare per week than white women.
So if you put that into perspective, I believe you're
in California, right, Yes, I am so send California stay
at home orders went into effect on March nineteenth. To date,
black women in that state have spent nearly two hundred
and thirty hours more on childcare, just on childcare than
(23:12):
their white counterparts. Yeah. Yeah, and you know, and it's
we're not crazy. The pandemic is hitting black moms harder.
We're more likely to be at risk from a medical
perspective more, we're more likely the women without children to
show signs of emotional, physical, cognitive, and behavioral stress in
the workplace anyway, including insomnia and heart problems were more
(23:35):
likely to be single moms, and the absence and lack
of involvement from our child's father contributes to the decline
of our health. So we were already disproportionately affected before
there was even a conversation about COVID or going back
to school. We spend nearly three times more hours per
week caring for our elderly or sick relatives. We live
(23:55):
in multigenerational homes, so it's it's very difficult to be
a black mom right now and going through this and
then thinking about how do I go to work and
have my child be in school. It's it's very dangerous.
It's it's worrisome, and I think that we're living through
a public health crisis and we need to ensure that
(24:17):
most of our women have paid sick days and paid
leave to actually keep the schools in public spaces safe.
I mean, we can't reopen without protections. It's paid leave
isn't just a benefit. It's a need for black women.
It's a need for all women and for families, and
for teachers, and if schools open, teachers need paid leave
to keep themselves and their students safe, and parents need it.
(24:39):
Not just to welcome new children, but to also make
sure that the older kids are healthy and safe and
able to learn when we come back. Child care isn't
a personal issue. It's a public issue. More with Christine
Michelle Carter. In just a moment, you're listening to Back
(25:02):
to Biz with Kay and Bows, and we're talking about
all the inequities and the disparities of being a black
or a brown mom. Right now, my question for Christina
is how can we give these moms a break? So
here's the gag. I read about this a while ago.
If you fix childcare and provide access to high quality childcare,
(25:25):
it advances progress on racial and economic equity. And people
really don't realize that. So once employers, once non government
companies like public and private sector, recognize the fact that
childcare is an economic development opportunity and it actually costs
state millions of dollars and and and lost income and
(25:49):
lost economic stimulus to their area, then we will solve it.
But right now, people think of childcare as a personal issue. Oh,
that's that woman's problem. She's a mom, and not a
community issue. So we need to treat childcare like we
treat public school and healthcare like an essential service that
is affordable and accessible for everybody, and it needs to
(26:13):
address the short term economic threat that we're facing with COVID,
but then also a more sustainable business model for the
childcare operators because right now they don't know if the
employers are coming back, and it's costly to operate to
it's a high demand and a low supply. So once
we treat that like it is a public issue and
(26:34):
it's an economic development opportunity, will then see a little
bit more racial and economic equity. Right, So then what
are the effects after the pandemic? Right? So if we
are advocating for this change in um not just policy,
but responsibility of non governmental businesses and organization sations, how
(27:01):
do we actually continue that conversation after we're not talking
a lot about after the pandemic? You know, people you
say going back to normal, and we realize now that
that's that's not a possibility and we actually don't want
it to be, right because a lot of what we're
facing we recognize as needs to change a system, this
(27:22):
being a very big one. But then what happens, So,
how how do you see this actually coming into effect?
And then how is our world different? Because of it.
So I can see two different scenarios happen. You know,
we get the paid leave and the medical leave for families,
and life just changes overnight like that for so many
(27:44):
different and disproportionately affected groups within our country. UM, I
see it happening as benefits happen within organizations, but on
a larger scale where people are reluctant to take the
support or they are viewed negatively for taking the support.
But there are so many organizations who have been fighting
(28:05):
this fight even pre COVID, like mom Congress and paid
leave for the US and you know Senators and the
Maternal Care Act and the Cares Act. There's so many
different initiatives a final Lawson's act Um that I wrote
about for for so many different that are trying to
support providing equity and fair solutions for folks who do
(28:28):
have children or or folks who are UM the minority,
which we know is actually the majority majority right now.
But so that would be the positive scenario. But I
actually am a big believer in history repeating itself, and
to me, the worst case scenario, which is if we
don't act, we could be faced with a repeat of
World War two, post world War two where men returned
(28:51):
from combat and women returned to the home. After the
surge of women in the workforce in twenty that could
look like women struggling to find childcare being force out
of the workforce. New rules for child care centers to
reduce the number of children per group were already there. Um,
we know that there's a there was a about one
fifth of parents who planned on having a nanny, and
(29:13):
turned out that only three percent were able to make
it a reality because of the supply and the demand.
We know that twenty three million working parents have no
access to a childcare provider. So you know, it's a
dangerous situation and it's very it's very likely that women
could be put back into the person post World War
two area where they pushed out of the workforce. Um,
(29:35):
which is extremely dangerous because a quarter of all children
in the US live with a single parent, higher than
anywhere else in the world. And not only are we
single parents, but again we're caring for family and friends.
So that's worst case scenario. God forbid that happens. I'm
hoping for the change like that that happens overnight. That
so many different nonprofits have been advocating for and are
(29:56):
prepared for. Yeah, oh my goodness, well you you certainly,
um you said the word in their hope. You know,
I am, I'm an optimist. You look at an optimist
as well. I mean, you're you're laying out the facts,
but all the facts are leading to a better future, hopefully.
Um So, really, let's let's get to that. What gives
(30:17):
you hope? Because we have been talking so much about
the challenges that we are facing as parents, the greater
challenges faced as single parents, the greater greater challenge face
because we are black moms, we're saying parents. But what
gives you hope? Like, what gives you hope right now? Gosh,
(30:39):
what's giving me hope right now? Is the level of
empathy as skyrocketed from I'm sure if you did a
year over year chart, it would just be exponential. The
fact that, you know, it's unfortunate that colleagues have said
that Black Lives Matter started this year, because we know
(30:59):
it didn't. We know what it's like to go to
the workplace in and watch Philando Castile get murdered in
front of his child and have to continue working and
not get any type of empathy from our employers or
our team members, but to see, you know, God rest
his soul. George Floyd did not die in vain because
(31:20):
the the just the current state of empathy towards black
women in the workplace, and the I see you, and
I'm going to become an ally and I'm gonna pass
the baton and give you an opportunity to elevate your
voice on a mainstream level like share the mic. Now,
I participated in that. That that's unprecedented, you know. And
(31:41):
and then I think that COVID. Had COVID not happened
and caused us to remember what it's like to be
humans first and to show empathy and and show a
bit of humanity for our fellow man, I don't think
that there would have ever been such an acceleration in
the Black Lives Matter movement. So I don't think that
he I'm in vain. I don't like to think that
anybody who is suffering with COVID right now or who
(32:05):
has passed from COVID, died in vain. There has been
tremendous strides in humanity, especially in America right now, and
I'm very thankful for that. That was Christine Michelle Carter.
You can check out her book Mom a f and
keep up with all she's doing on Instagram. And that
(32:27):
does it for this week's episode of Back to Biz
with Katie and Bows. You can also follow Katie and
I on Instagram check out our favorite moments from these
episodes and all that we're doing. And there's tons of
other episodes of Back to Biz to catch up on.
So if you haven't done already, go ahead and binge.
Go find us on Apple podcast, the I Heart Radio app,
and wherever you can listen to your favorite shows. Katie's
(32:49):
back next week, but until then, I'm Bosma St John
and this is Back to Biz with Katie and Bows.
Thanks so much for listening. Back to Biz with Katie
(33:12):
and Bows is a production of I Heart Radio and
Katie Currik Media. The executive producers are Katie currk Bozmas
St John and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen.
The associate producers are Derek Clements, Eliza Costas and Emily Pinto.
Editing by Derrek Clements and Lauren Hansen. Mixing by Derrek Clements.
(33:32):
Special thanks to Adriana Fasio for more information. About today's episode,
go to Katie kirk dot com. You can also follow
Katie Kurrik and Bozma st John on Twitter and Instagram.
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