June 11, 2020 • 30 mins
As the first woman to helm one of the big three Detroit automakers, GM CEO Mary Barra has learned a lot about creating a more diverse and equitable company. “The mindset people have to have is this is never done,” she says. “I look for the day when it doesn’t need special focus, but I think we’re a long way off from having leaders being very deliberate about creating diverse groups, diverse opportunities.” In this episode of Back to Biz with Katie and Boz, Mary Barra talks with co-hosts Katie Couric and Bozoma Saint John about the letter she wrote to her employees about George Floyd’s murder and the actions GM is taking to move the conversation forward. Barra also talks about the early successes of opening the GM facilities as well as the ways the pandemic has accelerated trends that may forever change the GM automobile.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi everyone. I'm Katie Currict and I'm Bosma st. John
and this is back to Biz with Katie and Bows.
This week, bos we have a really exciting and very
inspiring guests. She's such a trailblazer, such an inspiration in
the business world. I know you haven't met her, but
you know all about her. So take it away, Bows,
(00:21):
tell us about our guests, Mary Barra. Katie, I am
excited about Mary Bara. She is all of my corporate goals.
She is the CEO of General Motors, one of the
big three Detroit automakers. GM is one of the largest
and historically importing companies to the American economy. And I
(00:42):
mean talk about male dominated. You can't get more of
a swaggering boys club than the car industry, that's for sure.
And when Mary was appointed Bows and two thousand fourteen,
only twenty of the Fortune five hundred chief execs were women,
and now we're up to thirty seven, which we should
note is still impossibly infuriating lee small. But as more
(01:05):
women take over those executive positions, we really have to
thank leaders like Mary Barra. Absolutely, she's incredible and it
was such a pleasure to meet her. Over zoom and
have this meaty, wonderful conversation. You know. She shared her
path to leadership and how she was able to make
such a massive company like GM act nimbly in a
(01:26):
time of crisis. But of course we had to start
in the here and now we had to talk about
this letter she wrote to a nearly two hundred thousand
employees in response to our current racial unrest. I have
to tell you, Katie, I was, I mean, I'm really
really impressed. You know, the company letter expressed some fiery
sentiments that I really haven't heard seen presented by many
(01:46):
CEOs at all, and a lot of people. Hopefully Bo's
will follow suit. And I've got a quote from that letter.
She says she is impatient and disgusted by the fact
that as a nation we seem to be placated by
the passive discussion of why we wanted to know where
her head was that when she wrote that letter, and
how she plans on turning those words into action. So
(02:09):
we started there, Ye, let's get into it. Well, I think, uh,
you know, there was this sense of sadness and frustration
that I had as I, you know, learned what was
happening and processed it and at a human level, it
was just unconscionable of what happened. And I'm an engineer
(02:30):
by degree, and so I'm a problem solver, you know,
I think we It just became very clear to me
there's been too many others that we can't just you know,
talk about why and then you know, something else replaces
the news cycle and nothing gets done. Became really important
to me that we do something and we find solutions
(02:51):
and we drive for lasting change. And I'm really you know,
I'm just passionate about really making changes and stopped talking.
Let's start doing that. Is that's That's so true and
refreshing to hear. I know that your letter also announced
the formation of an advisory board, UM, as you said,
which has the intention of making GM a more inclusive
(03:14):
company in the world. Um, what do you think that
the company and perhaps like yourself and the others who
are leading the company, UM, how do you actually get there? Like,
how do you make it a more inclusive company? Because
that's really the operative word here. You know, Diversity is
one thing, certainly, you know, we can have people of
(03:36):
all types of backgrounds and cultures, ethnicities, etcetera. But inclusion
is what actually makes it workable. It's what actually creates
the success. So what what is it that you intend
to do by creating this advisory board? What GM we've
been talking about for a while now that we want
(03:59):
to have a culture and an environment where everybody can
bring their true self to work because if you can
be your true self, you can be at your best.
And so that's been our goal. Uh. We recognize we
have more work to do, and so with the Inclusion
Advisory Board, one of the very first things we know
we need to do is listen because we don't have
(04:20):
all the answers. Uh. And so actually I'm excited because
this evening we have one of our first listening sessions
with several members of the Senior Leader team. And we
believe we need to listen, we need to talk, we
need to learn together. Uh. You know, as I said
in in the note, um, you know, listening and talking
(04:40):
will lead to the dialogue that will lead to change.
And so uh, that's one of the areas we need
to work on. I'm also personally very uh pleased that
I get to be a part of the b RT
group that is going to work on four areas of
the area of from a finance perspective, a health care
PERSPECTI to education and workforce, which is the committee I chair,
(05:03):
and then criminal justice because I do think we need
systemic change, and you know, when you a company like
General Motors, uh, you know, we feel a responsibility to
drive change within our environment and what we can do
with our dealers and our suppliers. So we have a
pretty wide footprint. But then in addition to working with
(05:24):
the Business Roundtable and all of those companies, I think,
you know, together we can really, we can really start
to dismantle um and and change systems for the better.
So again, we have much work to do to build
on things that we've already done, but we have much
more work to do, and we're gonna be working both
(05:45):
as a company and then as a collection of companies.
It seems to me that we've reached this new era
where it's not really okay to stay silent on some
of these issues. We've seen people like you Mary speaking out.
Jeff Bezos basically told a customer from Amazon that if
he didn't like it, you know, he could lump it,
and he didn't mind losing him as a customer, which
(06:08):
is a real shift for Jeff Bezos. And we see,
you know, people like Ken Fraser, the CEO of Mark
saying George Floyd could have been him. And you know,
I think that that we're hearing from these corporate leaders
in a much more palpable way right now. Why is
that so essential? And and what do you make of
(06:30):
this real shift in and speaking out? Okay, you know again,
when I when I look at General Motors, we've always
said we want to be known as a values based company,
and so as we have spoken out in the past
has always been to make sure our employees understood what
we believed in, what we stood for as it relates
(06:51):
to our values. And I think it is to a
tipping point now where it would be inconsistent with our
values not to speak out and not to work with
others and challenge ourselves and challenge others. When I when
I said in the note we want to be the
most inclusive company in the world, I don't want to.
I mean I want every company to be the most
inclusive in the world, because it's not something we should
(07:12):
compete on. It's something we all have to dedicate ourselves
to do. So to me, it's values based and you
can't stay silent when something is just fundamentally happening that
is so inconsistent with your values. You you have a
responsibility to act. That's um. That is quite a radical statement.
It really is to say that it's not just about
(07:34):
General Motors being the most inclusive company in the world,
that you want every company. I feel I have to
pause there because I don't know that I've ever heard
that before. I'm curious, Bows, do you think that's starting
to happen? Obviously Mary is a real leader in this.
Do you think that more and more people will follow
Mary Bara's lead. I hope that more people follow Mary's lead,
(08:00):
But I do think that this is a change. I again,
I have never felt the kind of movement and the
kind of personal responsibility that leaders are taking in this
very moment. I've never seen this before. Yes, this type
of thing has happened a lot. This is not the
first video we've seen. It actually makes me quite enraged
(08:23):
when we think about the countless people who don't have video.
But I do believe that there are several things that
are adding to this moment. I mean, obviously we cannot
ignore COVID nineteen and so when you see something like
George Floyd's video of his murder, I think it is shocking.
(08:47):
It is shocking, and it makes us all wake up.
And so I do believe that this is a turning
point for all of us. UM. And I've also said
that I wish more companies would make more statements like
Mary is making. But I I do wonder about the
some of the mixed reactions, you know that the companies
(09:08):
getting perhaps there are some fear from business leaders to
make the kind of bold statements that Mary and others
are making. Um. You know, because there's there's gonna be
mixed reaction. Sometimes people won't believe you right right. I
(09:30):
was going to ask you Mary about sort of you know,
we live in such a cynical age and I'm wondering if,
if if you're worried on behalf of other leaders like yourself,
that that some will view this as sort of flagrant
brand opportunism. You know, that they are jumping on the
bandwagon that they um that that they're not really that
(09:53):
sincere in their commitment, and I'm curious how you feel
about that. I would say I've I've had the opportunity
over the last couple of weeks to talk to a
lot of CEOs and uh, it's real there. I mean,
you know, it's a it's a deep concern and from
that comes a strong commitment. And so you know, from
(10:17):
every all the CEOs that I've talked to, I believe
it's it's real and it's sincere, and they're being very authentic.
And I would also say, you know, with the response
that I've received from the letter we shared at General Motors,
not only did we have hundreds in one day, we
had almost six hundred responses from our employees on our
internal site, but I've had dealers reach out to me,
(10:39):
suppliers reach out to me saying thank you. You know,
we believe in this too, and you know we want
to work with you. And so, uh, you know, we
expected there would be some you know, pushback or some
negativity and other than some skepticism, which I think is fair.
You know, some of our employees kind of said, hey, yeah,
I hear you, I read what you said. I want
(11:01):
to see what you're going to do. And I think
that's a very fair response. And that's why, you know,
we're taking steps with the fund we've set up in
the initial donation we've made to the a c P.
And the fact that we're already starting our listening to
as and it happens to be my first listening session.
There have been other leaders that have already been having
uh discussions uh to to to learn and to also
(11:24):
provide a resource to to their employees because this is
such a difficult time. Uh. I was talking to one
of our leaders today and she said, you know, people
are exhausted. This issue has been so troubling and so
so difficult. I'm wondering, Mary, how much you've learned about
(11:45):
how to tackle this challenge through your work on gender equality.
GM has been consistently recognized as one of the world's
leading corporations and establishing gender equality. Uh. First of all,
how do you get other people to follow suit? And
what lessons have you learned from those efforts that could
(12:08):
be applied to creating a more diverse and an inclusive
workplace and company. Well, I would say one of the
big lessons I learned because as I mentioned, you know,
there was work going on over twenty years ago that
allowed me to have the chances and the opportunities that uh,
you know, allowed me to be ready and considered for
(12:29):
the position I'm in now, you know, as the company
in the late oh eight oh nine time from as
we went through the bankruptcy, I realized as we survived,
we had to start again. So I think what a
mindset people have to have is this is never done.
This is something of you know, or I guess I
look for the day when it doesn't need special focus.
(12:51):
But I think we're a long way off from having
leaders very deliberate about uh, creating diverse groups, diverse opportunities. Uh.
And and you know, it really gets to I would say,
I'm an engineer, and so what I've had a challenge
myself to do is I think I would sometimes pick
(13:12):
people like me because I was like, Okay, well I
know I'll get it done. So if I pick someone
like me, they'll get it done. And recognizing you get
a really narrow slice when you do that. And so
we've worked really hard to have our leadership team not
only have you know, i'll say gender, race, from a
diversity perspective, but also experiences other companies. And then because that,
(13:34):
you know, very diverse thinking, I think has allowed us
to make better decisions and challenge each other. And so
I really think that we it's something you have to
continually focus and and make sure again it's a business
imperative just as much as you know, wanting our next
set of electric vehicles. And that's the mindset that we
(13:54):
have to have. And that's one of the learnings I had,
because I think at some point people said, Okay, well
we've got that. We're doing well. It's it's a continual focus.
You're listening to Back to Biz with Katie and Bows
and when we come back. Mary Barra on GM's decision
to stop making cars and start making ventilators. When Mary
(14:23):
Barra became CEO of GM, she was not only the
first female CEO in GM's history, she was also the
first woman to lead any of the Big three Detroit automakers.
Talk about a glass ceiling, Mary credits her role models
for helping her realize that it was hers to smash. Yeah,
(14:44):
I think, you know, for me, it starts um. I
had a phenomenal mother who made me. You know, she
just encouraged me from I think the day I was
born that my brother and I we could do anything,
we could be anything, and if we worked hard, we
could make it happen. And so she, uh, you know,
I think having that you know, through my life, I
you know, I always had this belief in myself, um,
(15:07):
and so I think that carried me uh into uh,
you know, many of the positions leading up to this
and gave me that confidence because one of the things
when I first was in this job, actually a daughter
of one of our employees said to said to me,
because you're in this role, I now see that I
can do this, and I hadn't again because of my mom.
(15:29):
Just you know, it was just such an encouraging person.
UM I had. I had a really step back and
think about that, and that caused me to realize I
had an extra role to play of not of of
championing um, young women because we've we've done a lot
of work as Katie mentioned earlier, from a gender perspective
(15:50):
and helping women understand some of the situations they put
themselves in. UM. You know. I always used the example, uh,
if there's a posting for a new job them and
will look at it and say, if there's ten requirements
and she only has nine of them, she'll be like,
oh bummer. Where a man will look at it and say,
I've got six and ten I'm gonna go for and
what I want to women exactly and it's like, no,
(16:12):
don't don't be mad at them. You go for it
because even if you don't get the position, you're going
to learn and so UM, I think when I got
to the role, it was something I very quickly realized
I could play an additional role of really encouraging girls
and young women and being a champion, but also working
within the company for that. And then as we did
(16:35):
more work from from a bias, you know, one of
everyone has biases, so being able to start talking about
that and sharing what we've learned because I have found personally,
as I realized some of the ways I was looking
at things, we're just not right. UM, it really gave
me the opportunity and we started having open dialogue and
conversation about it. And so I think that's been one
(16:56):
of the the things that I think has been power
full uh within our group. But I we also brought
We do a lot of high performance teamwork. We work
with an outside coach to um to really help us
know ourselves, understand our weak weaknesses, where we can be better,
where our blind spots. And I think that work has
(17:17):
been important and now lays the foundation for us to
have the very important conversations and take the actions we
need to take now and to hold ourselves accountable. So Mary, um,
let's talk about business first though, how the pandemic affected
your business, because while all this is going on, it's
against the backdrop of a pandemic that has uh laid
(17:40):
bare some serious social issues. But I'm just curious, did
you realize early on what a serious problem this was
going to be because you have facilities all over the world,
including China, Yes, and well before we transition and be
happy to to talk about that. I would say that
the issue we've been discussing, I do see as a
(18:01):
huge business issue, uh, for business to address and be
part of the systemic change that we need to make,
uh to uphold our our responsibilities as as citizens and
as corporate leaders. So um, but that's a good that's
actually a very good point. This is business, Um, It's
(18:22):
not the bottom line, It's it's workplace culture. So which
drive which drives the bottom line? And if you don't,
you know, people have choices. And if you don't have
a culture of inclusion and you aren't valuing everyone, over time,
people people can can choose. So I I just wanted
to say that. But as it relates to COVID, clearly,
(18:44):
um as as we were in the early part of
the year, late January early February, we started to see
the impact on China. Uh you know, we we had
to shut our facilities there and uh you know, really
work and make sure we were doing the right thing
for our people and you know, reaching out working with
our suppliers and dealers, etcetera. So at that point, though
(19:07):
it was still not clear if it would you know,
have the global reach that now clearly it has. Uh
as as we did see that happening, we were able
to take all of the learnings from China and then
from Korea and other operations around the globe, and that
very much informed what we what we did in when
(19:29):
North America UM was was impacted, and frankly, then as
as China came back, everyone was able to come back
to work. All the lessons learned informed what we did.
So one of the things that has been a silver
lining from this tragic pandemic has been, uh, you know,
I think in the past sometimes we'd have a mindset of, well,
(19:50):
I'm different because I'm in this country or I'm different.
You know, it's different here because r and this. With this,
everybody realized, you know, what they've you know, there's people
who have experienced with this pandemic and how it impacts
the workplace and and work and finances and on re
aspect of the business. And so the desire to learn
and the outreach across just general motors I thought was
(20:12):
very very powerful and has has made us, I think stronger. Uh.
And so, you know, it was something very significant because
when you're an automobile company and you stopped making vehicles,
it's pretty significant. And we're pretty capital intensive business, and
so we had to take dramatic action quickly of and
went through a zero based budgeting process to save money
(20:35):
to make sure we were going to be secured with
all the unknowns that you had in in March and April. Uh.
And so you know, we focused on those steps the
minute we had to shut our plans down, though in
the United States that there was a team already starting
to work of what do we need to do to
run and also because we did have some essential services,
how do we make sure we provide a a safe environment.
(20:59):
So one of our our leaders kind of coined this phrase,
but he said, first it's lives, then it's livelihoods, and
we're going to focus on lives and make sure we're
creating a safe environment, and then we'll focus on livelihoods
and that of the corporation. And that's what has guided
us through it UM and and continues to this day,
because I think we all sit not knowing will there'll
(21:22):
be will there be another spike, how will that be handled?
How long will it be till there's uh, you know,
medical treatments or a vaccine, and so you know, we're
we're doing a tremendous scenario planning of hoping for the best,
but being prepared for a less optimal outcome. And that's
how we're facing it. From a business perspective. I do
(21:44):
find it very impressive that, Yes, for a business like yours,
which requires manufacturing, which requires you know, um plants and
all kinds of operations that keep going to have to
pivot is a really big decision. I think after right
(22:07):
after you shut down the North American operations UM, the
team began working with Ventech right to manufacture ventilators. I
mean that is that's a huge decision to make, uh
and and to to put into action. How did that
happen and how did you facilitate this type of quick turnaround. Well,
(22:28):
I think it really speaks to the tremendous dedication of
the General Motors team. I mean I got a call
from ken Chanel. The next day, some of our leaders
were talking to the leaders of Ventech. Then they were
on a plane. And you know, from that first meeting
that we had with Ventech, a month later, we were
producing ventilators. And to do that, we had to engage
hundreds of our suppliers because we had to find suppliers
(22:52):
who could start making the parts because Ventech at the
time was making between two and three hundred ventilators a month,
and we wanted to scale that up to had thousand
a month. And so you know, with that challenge, um,
you know, everybody just came to the table because everybody
realized and like I said, it is just the dedication
and the strength of the GM team. People worked night
(23:13):
and day because they knew they had an opportunity to
save lives and and that's what motivated them. Our suppliers,
many of our suppliers worked around the clock, uh as
I you know, went and spent time, and in Indiana
at the factory and Cokeomo Indiana that was making and
still today is making ventilators. Everybody just did what they
(23:34):
needed to do. And um, you know, for them it
was incredibly empowering. But they knew every ventilator ment a
potential life saved, and that was the mindset. And you
know they just did they did what It took. Our
our head of manufacturing for North America, he he said,
as they started the project on the plane right out
(23:55):
to Seattle's uh said, UM, you know, let's let's just
assume one of our family members is going to need
event later. What would we do? That was the mindset
And so I can take very little credit. I can
only be exceptionally proud. You're listening to Back to Biz
with Katie and Bows and when we come back. How
(24:16):
the pandemic altered the future of the GM car. After
three months of closure to to COVID nineteen, GM reopened
its North American facilities on and for businesses around the
country looking to do the same, the automaker may provide
(24:39):
a peek at what's ahead. Our guest Mary bar tells
us how that process has gone and what business in
this new normal looks like so far it has gone well. Uh,
we have protocols in place, and we took the time
to train our employees to answer all those questions, their
questions because recognizing everybody's coming from a different place as
(25:01):
it relates to COVID. Some people don't know a single
person who has even had the disease, and other people
have lost loved ones or have family members on the
front line. And so the training and the and the
work we did, and really one of the things we
shared with everybody is is we need to, you know,
show empathy because everybody's living this a little bit differently.
(25:22):
And so as we welcomed everyone back, we put them
through the training. We also explained the why why do
you need to wear a mask? Why are we sanitizing,
why are we screening? And all those processes are working
for us right now. And you know, people, as I
visited our facilities, people tell me I feel safer at
work than I do at the grocery store. And so
and we keep involving everyone into how can we make
(25:45):
it even better? And the ideas are great, and so
we just and once we have an idea coming from
one facility, we spread it across the globe, so everyone
can get better. So so far, so good. We're not
declaring victory, but it is working UH, and we you know,
in our people have confidence that they are working in
a safe environment. I think the big unknown is will
(26:06):
this crisis change consumer habits? Will it change the way
people live? Will it change what they want? I'm just
wondering if this pandemic has shifted how you're looking at
the future and how you're predicting what your consumers are
going to actually want. We we've seen this as UH
(26:27):
and are trying to accelerate our move to electric vehicles
because we think that is a big part of the solution.
Even though it will happen over a period of time,
the sooner we provide affordable, desirable UH electric vehicles, we
think we can start that transformation. So that's one of
the things we've tried to accelerate as we go through
this process. UM. You know, I think there's also an
(26:49):
interest with customers wanting to have their own vehicle, not
you know, being sure of public transportation. And then we've
also been listening to customers and doing customer clinics to
has what has changed and what are they looking for
in their vehicle. And it's early days in that I
think it will drive some change. I think people will
still want to have vehicles. I think autonomous offers solutions
(27:12):
even in in rides sharing because it's one less dimension
of another person being in the vehicles. So we see,
you know, the transformation that we see happening in mobility
with especially electrifide vehicles and autonomous vehicles. We see that, um,
we haven't changed our commitment and our intensity in moving
in that direction. We think it's actually an opportunity to accelerate.
(27:36):
Perhaps in closing, are their thoughts that you have about
the your hope for the future and for recovery at
this time that we could take away even as we
think about our own individual businesses or our own individual
jobs and how we operate and what that timeline perhaps
(27:56):
looks like. Well, I would say I offer to to
different perspectives. One within general motors. We've learned how to
do things with much less bureaucracy, to do things faster,
to empower people. Uh, and they're going to do great
things and make great decisions. And you know, the rare
time something doesn't work out is not a reason for
when ninety percent of the time it's going to So
I think that's something I'm very excited about. You know,
(28:18):
as I look to the country and the and the globe,
I hope, especially in the United States, as things are
opening up, I hope people stay with understanding the virus
is still with us, and follow the safety protocols and
wear masks and practice social distancing. Because if we can
come through this without another uh uh, you know, Spike,
(28:42):
I think it's gonna be so important for the economy
and for everyone's life from a livelihood perspective. So that's
my hope that we all are responsible as we go
through these next several months to get to the other side.
It must be hard to run a big company like
GM with so many unser and teas looming in the future.
(29:02):
So um, I don't envy you, but I do admire you, Mary,
I have a great team. I have a great team. Well,
You're always quick to give them credit, which I think
is part of the reason behind your success. Mary, Bara,
thank you so much for spending time with us today.
Thank you for the opportunity. I have to say I've
learned a lot and I've really enjoyed the conversation, so
(29:24):
thank you both. Thank you hashtag goals and that does
it for this episode of Back to Biz with Katie
and Bows. If you're not already, you can subscribe to
the podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows, and please
(29:45):
do everyone, and you can find more about all the
cool people were talking to, as well as our favorite
moments from these episodes on our Instagram feeds and stories.
We're all about the Graham Until next time, everyone, I'm
Katie Couric and I'm Boss st On and this is
Back to Biz with Katie and Bo's. Thank you everyone
for listening, and we'll talk to you next time. Back
(30:12):
to Biz with Katie and Bows is a production of
I Heart Radio and Katie Curk Media. The executive producers
are Katie Currk, Bozemans st John, and Courtney Litz. The
supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. The associate producers are Derek Clements,
Eliza Costas, and Emily Pinto. Editing by Derrek Clements and
Lauren Hansen, Mixing by Derrek Clements. Special thanks to Adriana Fasio.
(30:36):
For more information about today's episode, go to Katie kirk
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st John on Twitter and Instagram. For more podcasts from
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Hi everyone. I'm Katie Currict and I'm Bosma st. John
and this is back to Biz with Katie and Bows.
This week, bos we have a really exciting and very
inspiring guests. She's such a trailblazer, such an inspiration in
the business world. I know you haven't met her, but
you know all about her. So take it away, Bows,
(00:21):
tell us about our guests, Mary Barra. Katie, I am
excited about Mary Bara. She is all of my corporate goals.
She is the CEO of General Motors, one of the
big three Detroit automakers. GM is one of the largest
and historically importing companies to the American economy. And I
(00:42):
mean talk about male dominated. You can't get more of
a swaggering boys club than the car industry, that's for sure.
And when Mary was appointed Bows and two thousand fourteen,
only twenty of the Fortune five hundred chief execs were women,
and now we're up to thirty seven, which we should
note is still impossibly infuriating lee small. But as more
(01:05):
women take over those executive positions, we really have to
thank leaders like Mary Barra. Absolutely, she's incredible and it
was such a pleasure to meet her. Over zoom and
have this meaty, wonderful conversation. You know. She shared her
path to leadership and how she was able to make
such a massive company like GM act nimbly in a
(01:26):
time of crisis. But of course we had to start
in the here and now we had to talk about
this letter she wrote to a nearly two hundred thousand
employees in response to our current racial unrest. I have
to tell you, Katie, I was, I mean, I'm really
really impressed. You know, the company letter expressed some fiery
sentiments that I really haven't heard seen presented by many
(01:46):
CEOs at all, and a lot of people. Hopefully Bo's
will follow suit. And I've got a quote from that letter.
She says she is impatient and disgusted by the fact
that as a nation we seem to be placated by
the passive discussion of why we wanted to know where
her head was that when she wrote that letter, and
how she plans on turning those words into action. So
(02:09):
we started there, Ye, let's get into it. Well, I think, uh,
you know, there was this sense of sadness and frustration
that I had as I, you know, learned what was
happening and processed it and at a human level, it
was just unconscionable of what happened. And I'm an engineer
(02:30):
by degree, and so I'm a problem solver, you know,
I think we It just became very clear to me
there's been too many others that we can't just you know,
talk about why and then you know, something else replaces
the news cycle and nothing gets done. Became really important
to me that we do something and we find solutions
(02:51):
and we drive for lasting change. And I'm really you know,
I'm just passionate about really making changes and stopped talking.
Let's start doing that. Is that's That's so true and
refreshing to hear. I know that your letter also announced
the formation of an advisory board, UM, as you said,
which has the intention of making GM a more inclusive
(03:14):
company in the world. Um, what do you think that
the company and perhaps like yourself and the others who
are leading the company, UM, how do you actually get there? Like,
how do you make it a more inclusive company? Because
that's really the operative word here. You know, Diversity is
one thing, certainly, you know, we can have people of
(03:36):
all types of backgrounds and cultures, ethnicities, etcetera. But inclusion
is what actually makes it workable. It's what actually creates
the success. So what what is it that you intend
to do by creating this advisory board? What GM we've
been talking about for a while now that we want
(03:59):
to have a culture and an environment where everybody can
bring their true self to work because if you can
be your true self, you can be at your best.
And so that's been our goal. Uh. We recognize we
have more work to do, and so with the Inclusion
Advisory Board, one of the very first things we know
we need to do is listen because we don't have
(04:20):
all the answers. Uh. And so actually I'm excited because
this evening we have one of our first listening sessions
with several members of the Senior Leader team. And we
believe we need to listen, we need to talk, we
need to learn together. Uh. You know, as I said
in in the note, um, you know, listening and talking
(04:40):
will lead to the dialogue that will lead to change.
And so uh, that's one of the areas we need
to work on. I'm also personally very uh pleased that
I get to be a part of the b RT
group that is going to work on four areas of
the area of from a finance perspective, a health care
PERSPECTI to education and workforce, which is the committee I chair,
(05:03):
and then criminal justice because I do think we need
systemic change, and you know, when you a company like
General Motors, uh, you know, we feel a responsibility to
drive change within our environment and what we can do
with our dealers and our suppliers. So we have a
pretty wide footprint. But then in addition to working with
(05:24):
the Business Roundtable and all of those companies, I think,
you know, together we can really, we can really start
to dismantle um and and change systems for the better.
So again, we have much work to do to build
on things that we've already done, but we have much
more work to do, and we're gonna be working both
(05:45):
as a company and then as a collection of companies.
It seems to me that we've reached this new era
where it's not really okay to stay silent on some
of these issues. We've seen people like you Mary speaking out.
Jeff Bezos basically told a customer from Amazon that if
he didn't like it, you know, he could lump it,
and he didn't mind losing him as a customer, which
(06:08):
is a real shift for Jeff Bezos. And we see,
you know, people like Ken Fraser, the CEO of Mark
saying George Floyd could have been him. And you know,
I think that that we're hearing from these corporate leaders
in a much more palpable way right now. Why is
that so essential? And and what do you make of
(06:30):
this real shift in and speaking out? Okay, you know again,
when I when I look at General Motors, we've always
said we want to be known as a values based company,
and so as we have spoken out in the past
has always been to make sure our employees understood what
we believed in, what we stood for as it relates
(06:51):
to our values. And I think it is to a
tipping point now where it would be inconsistent with our
values not to speak out and not to work with
others and challenge ourselves and challenge others. When I when
I said in the note we want to be the
most inclusive company in the world, I don't want to.
I mean I want every company to be the most
inclusive in the world, because it's not something we should
(07:12):
compete on. It's something we all have to dedicate ourselves
to do. So to me, it's values based and you
can't stay silent when something is just fundamentally happening that
is so inconsistent with your values. You you have a
responsibility to act. That's um. That is quite a radical statement.
It really is to say that it's not just about
(07:34):
General Motors being the most inclusive company in the world,
that you want every company. I feel I have to
pause there because I don't know that I've ever heard
that before. I'm curious, Bows, do you think that's starting
to happen? Obviously Mary is a real leader in this.
Do you think that more and more people will follow
Mary Bara's lead. I hope that more people follow Mary's lead,
(08:00):
But I do think that this is a change. I again,
I have never felt the kind of movement and the
kind of personal responsibility that leaders are taking in this
very moment. I've never seen this before. Yes, this type
of thing has happened a lot. This is not the
first video we've seen. It actually makes me quite enraged
(08:23):
when we think about the countless people who don't have video.
But I do believe that there are several things that
are adding to this moment. I mean, obviously we cannot
ignore COVID nineteen and so when you see something like
George Floyd's video of his murder, I think it is shocking.
(08:47):
It is shocking, and it makes us all wake up.
And so I do believe that this is a turning
point for all of us. UM. And I've also said
that I wish more companies would make more statements like
Mary is making. But I I do wonder about the
some of the mixed reactions, you know that the companies
(09:08):
getting perhaps there are some fear from business leaders to
make the kind of bold statements that Mary and others
are making. Um. You know, because there's there's gonna be
mixed reaction. Sometimes people won't believe you right right. I
(09:30):
was going to ask you Mary about sort of you know,
we live in such a cynical age and I'm wondering if,
if if you're worried on behalf of other leaders like yourself,
that that some will view this as sort of flagrant
brand opportunism. You know, that they are jumping on the
bandwagon that they um that that they're not really that
(09:53):
sincere in their commitment, and I'm curious how you feel
about that. I would say I've I've had the opportunity
over the last couple of weeks to talk to a
lot of CEOs and uh, it's real there. I mean,
you know, it's a it's a deep concern and from
that comes a strong commitment. And so you know, from
(10:17):
every all the CEOs that I've talked to, I believe
it's it's real and it's sincere, and they're being very authentic.
And I would also say, you know, with the response
that I've received from the letter we shared at General Motors,
not only did we have hundreds in one day, we
had almost six hundred responses from our employees on our
internal site, but I've had dealers reach out to me,
(10:39):
suppliers reach out to me saying thank you. You know,
we believe in this too, and you know we want
to work with you. And so, uh, you know, we
expected there would be some you know, pushback or some
negativity and other than some skepticism, which I think is fair.
You know, some of our employees kind of said, hey, yeah,
I hear you, I read what you said. I want
(11:01):
to see what you're going to do. And I think
that's a very fair response. And that's why, you know,
we're taking steps with the fund we've set up in
the initial donation we've made to the a c P.
And the fact that we're already starting our listening to
as and it happens to be my first listening session.
There have been other leaders that have already been having
uh discussions uh to to to learn and to also
(11:24):
provide a resource to to their employees because this is
such a difficult time. Uh. I was talking to one
of our leaders today and she said, you know, people
are exhausted. This issue has been so troubling and so
so difficult. I'm wondering, Mary, how much you've learned about
(11:45):
how to tackle this challenge through your work on gender equality.
GM has been consistently recognized as one of the world's
leading corporations and establishing gender equality. Uh. First of all,
how do you get other people to follow suit? And
what lessons have you learned from those efforts that could
(12:08):
be applied to creating a more diverse and an inclusive
workplace and company. Well, I would say one of the
big lessons I learned because as I mentioned, you know,
there was work going on over twenty years ago that
allowed me to have the chances and the opportunities that uh,
you know, allowed me to be ready and considered for
(12:29):
the position I'm in now, you know, as the company
in the late oh eight oh nine time from as
we went through the bankruptcy, I realized as we survived,
we had to start again. So I think what a
mindset people have to have is this is never done.
This is something of you know, or I guess I
look for the day when it doesn't need special focus.
(12:51):
But I think we're a long way off from having
leaders very deliberate about uh, creating diverse groups, diverse opportunities. Uh.
And and you know, it really gets to I would say,
I'm an engineer, and so what I've had a challenge
myself to do is I think I would sometimes pick
(13:12):
people like me because I was like, Okay, well I
know I'll get it done. So if I pick someone
like me, they'll get it done. And recognizing you get
a really narrow slice when you do that. And so
we've worked really hard to have our leadership team not
only have you know, i'll say gender, race, from a
diversity perspective, but also experiences other companies. And then because that,
(13:34):
you know, very diverse thinking, I think has allowed us
to make better decisions and challenge each other. And so
I really think that we it's something you have to
continually focus and and make sure again it's a business
imperative just as much as you know, wanting our next
set of electric vehicles. And that's the mindset that we
(13:54):
have to have. And that's one of the learnings I had,
because I think at some point people said, Okay, well
we've got that. We're doing well. It's it's a continual focus.
You're listening to Back to Biz with Katie and Bows
and when we come back. Mary Barra on GM's decision
to stop making cars and start making ventilators. When Mary
(14:23):
Barra became CEO of GM, she was not only the
first female CEO in GM's history, she was also the
first woman to lead any of the Big three Detroit automakers.
Talk about a glass ceiling, Mary credits her role models
for helping her realize that it was hers to smash. Yeah,
(14:44):
I think, you know, for me, it starts um. I
had a phenomenal mother who made me. You know, she
just encouraged me from I think the day I was
born that my brother and I we could do anything,
we could be anything, and if we worked hard, we
could make it happen. And so she, uh, you know,
I think having that you know, through my life, I
you know, I always had this belief in myself, um,
(15:07):
and so I think that carried me uh into uh,
you know, many of the positions leading up to this
and gave me that confidence because one of the things
when I first was in this job, actually a daughter
of one of our employees said to said to me,
because you're in this role, I now see that I
can do this, and I hadn't again because of my mom.
(15:29):
Just you know, it was just such an encouraging person.
UM I had. I had a really step back and
think about that, and that caused me to realize I
had an extra role to play of not of of
championing um, young women because we've we've done a lot
of work as Katie mentioned earlier, from a gender perspective
(15:50):
and helping women understand some of the situations they put
themselves in. UM. You know. I always used the example, uh,
if there's a posting for a new job them and
will look at it and say, if there's ten requirements
and she only has nine of them, she'll be like,
oh bummer. Where a man will look at it and say,
I've got six and ten I'm gonna go for and
what I want to women exactly and it's like, no,
(16:12):
don't don't be mad at them. You go for it
because even if you don't get the position, you're going
to learn and so UM, I think when I got
to the role, it was something I very quickly realized
I could play an additional role of really encouraging girls
and young women and being a champion, but also working
within the company for that. And then as we did
(16:35):
more work from from a bias, you know, one of
everyone has biases, so being able to start talking about
that and sharing what we've learned because I have found personally,
as I realized some of the ways I was looking
at things, we're just not right. UM, it really gave
me the opportunity and we started having open dialogue and
conversation about it. And so I think that's been one
(16:56):
of the the things that I think has been power
full uh within our group. But I we also brought
We do a lot of high performance teamwork. We work
with an outside coach to um to really help us
know ourselves, understand our weak weaknesses, where we can be better,
where our blind spots. And I think that work has
(17:17):
been important and now lays the foundation for us to
have the very important conversations and take the actions we
need to take now and to hold ourselves accountable. So Mary, um,
let's talk about business first though, how the pandemic affected
your business, because while all this is going on, it's
against the backdrop of a pandemic that has uh laid
(17:40):
bare some serious social issues. But I'm just curious, did
you realize early on what a serious problem this was
going to be because you have facilities all over the world,
including China, Yes, and well before we transition and be
happy to to talk about that. I would say that
the issue we've been discussing, I do see as a
(18:01):
huge business issue, uh, for business to address and be
part of the systemic change that we need to make,
uh to uphold our our responsibilities as as citizens and
as corporate leaders. So um, but that's a good that's
actually a very good point. This is business, Um, It's
(18:22):
not the bottom line, It's it's workplace culture. So which
drive which drives the bottom line? And if you don't,
you know, people have choices. And if you don't have
a culture of inclusion and you aren't valuing everyone, over time,
people people can can choose. So I I just wanted
to say that. But as it relates to COVID, clearly,
(18:44):
um as as we were in the early part of
the year, late January early February, we started to see
the impact on China. Uh you know, we we had
to shut our facilities there and uh you know, really
work and make sure we were doing the right thing
for our people and you know, reaching out working with
our suppliers and dealers, etcetera. So at that point, though
(19:07):
it was still not clear if it would you know,
have the global reach that now clearly it has. Uh
as as we did see that happening, we were able
to take all of the learnings from China and then
from Korea and other operations around the globe, and that
very much informed what we what we did in when
(19:29):
North America UM was was impacted, and frankly, then as
as China came back, everyone was able to come back
to work. All the lessons learned informed what we did.
So one of the things that has been a silver
lining from this tragic pandemic has been, uh, you know,
I think in the past sometimes we'd have a mindset of, well,
(19:50):
I'm different because I'm in this country or I'm different.
You know, it's different here because r and this. With this,
everybody realized, you know, what they've you know, there's people
who have experienced with this pandemic and how it impacts
the workplace and and work and finances and on re
aspect of the business. And so the desire to learn
and the outreach across just general motors I thought was
(20:12):
very very powerful and has has made us, I think stronger. Uh.
And so, you know, it was something very significant because
when you're an automobile company and you stopped making vehicles,
it's pretty significant. And we're pretty capital intensive business, and
so we had to take dramatic action quickly of and
went through a zero based budgeting process to save money
(20:35):
to make sure we were going to be secured with
all the unknowns that you had in in March and April. Uh.
And so you know, we focused on those steps the
minute we had to shut our plans down, though in
the United States that there was a team already starting
to work of what do we need to do to
run and also because we did have some essential services,
how do we make sure we provide a a safe environment.
(20:59):
So one of our our leaders kind of coined this phrase,
but he said, first it's lives, then it's livelihoods, and
we're going to focus on lives and make sure we're
creating a safe environment, and then we'll focus on livelihoods
and that of the corporation. And that's what has guided
us through it UM and and continues to this day,
because I think we all sit not knowing will there'll
(21:22):
be will there be another spike, how will that be handled?
How long will it be till there's uh, you know,
medical treatments or a vaccine, and so you know, we're
we're doing a tremendous scenario planning of hoping for the best,
but being prepared for a less optimal outcome. And that's
how we're facing it. From a business perspective. I do
(21:44):
find it very impressive that, Yes, for a business like yours,
which requires manufacturing, which requires you know, um plants and
all kinds of operations that keep going to have to
pivot is a really big decision. I think after right
(22:07):
after you shut down the North American operations UM, the
team began working with Ventech right to manufacture ventilators. I
mean that is that's a huge decision to make, uh
and and to to put into action. How did that
happen and how did you facilitate this type of quick turnaround. Well,
(22:28):
I think it really speaks to the tremendous dedication of
the General Motors team. I mean I got a call
from ken Chanel. The next day, some of our leaders
were talking to the leaders of Ventech. Then they were
on a plane. And you know, from that first meeting
that we had with Ventech, a month later, we were
producing ventilators. And to do that, we had to engage
hundreds of our suppliers because we had to find suppliers
(22:52):
who could start making the parts because Ventech at the
time was making between two and three hundred ventilators a month,
and we wanted to scale that up to had thousand
a month. And so you know, with that challenge, um,
you know, everybody just came to the table because everybody
realized and like I said, it is just the dedication
and the strength of the GM team. People worked night
(23:13):
and day because they knew they had an opportunity to
save lives and and that's what motivated them. Our suppliers,
many of our suppliers worked around the clock, uh as
I you know, went and spent time, and in Indiana
at the factory and Cokeomo Indiana that was making and
still today is making ventilators. Everybody just did what they
(23:34):
needed to do. And um, you know, for them it
was incredibly empowering. But they knew every ventilator ment a
potential life saved, and that was the mindset. And you
know they just did they did what It took. Our
our head of manufacturing for North America, he he said,
as they started the project on the plane right out
(23:55):
to Seattle's uh said, UM, you know, let's let's just
assume one of our family members is going to need
event later. What would we do? That was the mindset
And so I can take very little credit. I can
only be exceptionally proud. You're listening to Back to Biz
with Katie and Bows and when we come back. How
(24:16):
the pandemic altered the future of the GM car. After
three months of closure to to COVID nineteen, GM reopened
its North American facilities on and for businesses around the
country looking to do the same, the automaker may provide
(24:39):
a peek at what's ahead. Our guest Mary bar tells
us how that process has gone and what business in
this new normal looks like so far it has gone well. Uh,
we have protocols in place, and we took the time
to train our employees to answer all those questions, their
questions because recognizing everybody's coming from a different place as
(25:01):
it relates to COVID. Some people don't know a single
person who has even had the disease, and other people
have lost loved ones or have family members on the
front line. And so the training and the and the
work we did, and really one of the things we
shared with everybody is is we need to, you know,
show empathy because everybody's living this a little bit differently.
(25:22):
And so as we welcomed everyone back, we put them
through the training. We also explained the why why do
you need to wear a mask? Why are we sanitizing,
why are we screening? And all those processes are working
for us right now. And you know, people, as I
visited our facilities, people tell me I feel safer at
work than I do at the grocery store. And so
and we keep involving everyone into how can we make
(25:45):
it even better? And the ideas are great, and so
we just and once we have an idea coming from
one facility, we spread it across the globe, so everyone
can get better. So so far, so good. We're not
declaring victory, but it is working UH, and we you know,
in our people have confidence that they are working in
a safe environment. I think the big unknown is will
(26:06):
this crisis change consumer habits? Will it change the way
people live? Will it change what they want? I'm just
wondering if this pandemic has shifted how you're looking at
the future and how you're predicting what your consumers are
going to actually want. We we've seen this as UH
(26:27):
and are trying to accelerate our move to electric vehicles
because we think that is a big part of the solution.
Even though it will happen over a period of time,
the sooner we provide affordable, desirable UH electric vehicles, we
think we can start that transformation. So that's one of
the things we've tried to accelerate as we go through
this process. UM. You know, I think there's also an
(26:49):
interest with customers wanting to have their own vehicle, not
you know, being sure of public transportation. And then we've
also been listening to customers and doing customer clinics to
has what has changed and what are they looking for
in their vehicle. And it's early days in that I
think it will drive some change. I think people will
still want to have vehicles. I think autonomous offers solutions
(27:12):
even in in rides sharing because it's one less dimension
of another person being in the vehicles. So we see,
you know, the transformation that we see happening in mobility
with especially electrifide vehicles and autonomous vehicles. We see that, um,
we haven't changed our commitment and our intensity in moving
in that direction. We think it's actually an opportunity to accelerate.
(27:36):
Perhaps in closing, are their thoughts that you have about
the your hope for the future and for recovery at
this time that we could take away even as we
think about our own individual businesses or our own individual
jobs and how we operate and what that timeline perhaps
(27:56):
looks like. Well, I would say I offer to to
different perspectives. One within general motors. We've learned how to
do things with much less bureaucracy, to do things faster,
to empower people. Uh, and they're going to do great
things and make great decisions. And you know, the rare
time something doesn't work out is not a reason for
when ninety percent of the time it's going to So
I think that's something I'm very excited about. You know,
(28:18):
as I look to the country and the and the globe,
I hope, especially in the United States, as things are
opening up, I hope people stay with understanding the virus
is still with us, and follow the safety protocols and
wear masks and practice social distancing. Because if we can
come through this without another uh uh, you know, Spike,
(28:42):
I think it's gonna be so important for the economy
and for everyone's life from a livelihood perspective. So that's
my hope that we all are responsible as we go
through these next several months to get to the other side.
It must be hard to run a big company like
GM with so many unser and teas looming in the future.
(29:02):
So um, I don't envy you, but I do admire you, Mary,
I have a great team. I have a great team. Well,
You're always quick to give them credit, which I think
is part of the reason behind your success. Mary, Bara,
thank you so much for spending time with us today.
Thank you for the opportunity. I have to say I've
learned a lot and I've really enjoyed the conversation, so
(29:24):
thank you both. Thank you hashtag goals and that does
it for this episode of Back to Biz with Katie
and Bows. If you're not already, you can subscribe to
the podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows, and please
(29:45):
do everyone, and you can find more about all the
cool people were talking to, as well as our favorite
moments from these episodes on our Instagram feeds and stories.
We're all about the Graham Until next time, everyone, I'm
Katie Couric and I'm Boss st On and this is
Back to Biz with Katie and Bo's. Thank you everyone
for listening, and we'll talk to you next time. Back
(30:12):
to Biz with Katie and Bows is a production of
I Heart Radio and Katie Curk Media. The executive producers
are Katie Currk, Bozemans st John, and Courtney Litz. The
supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. The associate producers are Derek Clements,
Eliza Costas, and Emily Pinto. Editing by Derrek Clements and
Lauren Hansen, Mixing by Derrek Clements. Special thanks to Adriana Fasio.
(30:36):
For more information about today's episode, go to Katie kirk
dot com. You can also follow Katie Kurk and Bozmans
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!