June 18, 2020 • 33 mins
After Stacey Abrams narrowly lost her historic gubernatorial run in 2018, she did not contest the race. She could have, but instead the long-time activist, lawyer and politician put all of her effort to fighting a broken voting system into ensuring fair elections in the future. “This is not about one politician or one race,” she says. “This is about an infrastructure that’s supposed to serve citizens and it’s not.” On this episode of Back to Biz with Katie and Boz, Stacey Abrams talks about the work her organization “Fair Fights Action” is doing to mitigate the harm of voter suppression and how their helping voters to prepare for November. Katie and Boz also talk to Stacey about her childhood, her love of “Star Trek,” that little VP rumor, and the key difference between the protests happening today compared with the ones that broke out after the Rodney King verdict 30 years ago. Stacey Abrams new book “Our Time is Now” is available wherever you buy books.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi everyone. I'm Katie Curic and I'm Bozma st John
and this is back to Biz with Katie and Bows. Bows.
I don't know about you, but I'm super psyched today
because Stacy Abrams is such a rock star. And I'm
sure you probably agree. Oh yes, I certainly agree. She
has that black girl magic. It can't be bottled. Hers
(00:23):
is coming out of her ears, out of her toes, everywhere. Gosh,
that magic. She's got it. Now, if you guys have
heard of Stacy Abrams, who probably know about her historic
run for governor of Georgia two years ago in two
thousand eighteen, she narrowly lost to Brian Kemp, who was
then the Secretary of State. And we'll be talking about
that obviously, bows right. And Stacy was the first black
(00:47):
woman in the US to win the nomination for governor period.
I'm first black woman. Did you? Did you hear me? Did? Okay? Ever?
In the US? Like ever? Okay? Well, I'm just saying
she's history making. She was born in Madison, Wisconsin, raised
in Gulfport, Mississippi, and her family moved to Atlanta, where
both her parents got graduate degrees and became Methodist ministers.
(01:09):
So she's also a p K, otherwise known as as
Preacher's kid. That's oh, that's a new one for me,
Thank you. Bo's Yeah, And I know that her family
really focused on education and it showed with Stacy. She
graduated Magnicum Loudie from Spellman and then she got her
law degree from Yale, so she's quite the smarty pants.
She then served in the Georgia House of Representatives for
(01:32):
ten years. She's been an activist her whole life, fighting
particularly for voting rights, and she's got a new book
out bows called Our Time Is Now. It's perfect for
this moment and this movement. It's a call to action
to protest, but also to participate and vote during this
age of transformational change. That's right, this is perfect And
(01:54):
I'm so excited to have her on this show. You know,
not only do we share being p k's, but she's
also a fellow trekky prosper baby. You know what. I'm
more of a Picard person. So we'll see where she is. Um,
we'll talk to her about her book, about November and
about all that has been happening in her home state,
(02:15):
from Georgia's primary debacle to the death of Ray Schard
Brooks in Atlanta. But first we want to get to
know her a little bit. So let's get to it. Okay,
So now here's the big question. Of course, are you
under the tutelage of Captain Kirk or Captain Picard? The card? See,
I knew, I knew it. I knew it all along.
(02:37):
I knew that we were sisters. I knew it. But
before you fall too deeply in love, I think that
Captain Picard is the archetype of a star Trek captain.
But I think Captain Janeway had the hardest mission and
did the best work, you know what. Say, so let
me tell you something. Okay, we we are. I think
we're meant to be because the way I'm feeling about
(02:58):
Jane Way, I just wish that she had more of
an audience, you know, But that could also speak to
our issues anyway, exactly right, which is why she she was.
I love the card. He will always be the archetype.
But look, it's it's it is much harder to be
a captain when you are stranded and have to hold
your values with no one else holding you accountable. You
(03:22):
know what, This could just start off the entire conversation. Well,
except I feel very left out, ladies, because I don't
watch Star Trek. I will say that. Just think about
it this way. In a pantheon of men who get
credit for everything, this was a woman who had the heart,
was sent away from everything, no resources, and still managed
to be just a badass. Yes, tell it. And I
(03:46):
feel like everything we need to know about life in
society we could learn on Star Trek. I'm gonna I'm
gonna have to start watching it, ladies, so I can
be part of this conversation. So welcome you into the cult.
Thank you, thank you, Live long and prosper. Right there
you go. Earlier I said, may the Force be with you,
and BO said no, no, no, that's Star Wars, completely
(04:09):
different universe. Anyway, Well, we want to talk about your universe,
Stacy Abrams, because it's so fascinating. We have so much
to cover, and we wanted to start with learning a
little more about you as a person. I know that
you share a memory in your new book called Our
Time Is Now that kind of tells us a lot
(04:30):
about what you were like as a child that informed
who you became as an adult, and that was when
you were six years old and you got into your
only schoolyard fight. Wait for it, everyone over the nineteen
eighty election between Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan. I love
that you got into a fight at six about politics.
(04:51):
Can you take us back to what you were fighting
about and what it tells us about who you were
as a kid. I grew up in Gulfport, Mississippi, which
was one of the more liberal places in the state
of Mississippi, but still fairly conservative. I went to elementary
school that was integrated, but I tended to end up
(05:14):
in classes. My classroom was predominantly white, and there was
a young woman in the class who she and I
actually became friends. But she we had this mock election,
and she called Jimmy Carter a communist and said that
he had destroyed America. And in our family, we grew
up watching morning news, we watched the evening news like
(05:38):
we were steeped in politics. Not in a overwhelming way,
but it was what was playing. And when she called
him a communist, I told her to take it back.
She wouldn't. I challenged her to defend her accusations. I
told her that that Ronald Reagan was a fascist because
I'd heard that terminology used as well, and she threw
(05:58):
a book at me. I also, I'm the second of
six kids, so I was raised to understand that if
you were ever in an you know, in a confrontation,
you should use overwhelming force to end it as quickly
as possible. She threw a book, I shoved a desk atter.
I won, harder lost, but you know I stood in
my in my ground. Wow, you really defended yourself and
(06:22):
and were you that sort of committed and passionate throughout
your childhood? I was? I mean, I'm not. I am
not a high emotion person, but I am very goal oriented.
I had four younger siblings and an older sister who
was just incredibly kind to all of us. She was
(06:43):
three years older than I am. But in our family,
we were raised to believe that you're responsible for those
who were weak, who are vulnerable, who are related to you.
But we were also raised to have strong opinions, not
necessarily to be confrontational, but to believe. And if you
leaved something, you should know why you believed it. Yeah. Well,
you also credit your parents with getting you where you are.
(07:06):
Did the lessons that you learned in your upbringing, or
the insight about your parents that they help you despite
all the obstacles that they faced. So my parents when
I was growing up, my mom and dad were both um.
They work, They were working people. My mom was a
college librarian. My dad was a shipyard worker. My father
was dyslexic, and even though he had a college degree
(07:28):
and is one of the smartest people I've ever met,
because he couldn't read functionally until he was in his thirties,
he couldn't get a job in an office. And so
this bright man with this incredible mind, because he could
not read and interact in the way they expected, he
worked in a shipyard, not really using his mind, more
using his strength. My dad really was the first person
(07:52):
who taught us about feminism, because he believed that gender
did not prescribe or circumscribe what we were capable of.
My mom was a college librarian who sometimes made less
money than the janitor who cleaned the college, and she
was raising six children with my father. They were always struggling,
but they always found time and the impetus to make
(08:15):
certain that our world was broader than just the little
house we lived in on South Street. And so as
a child what I internalized was this deep commitment to justice,
a commitment to engagement, the fact that our circumstances were
never going to constrain our capacity and our futures. And
when they became ministers I was fifteen. I mean, they
(08:37):
preached us our whole lives, but they formalized that when
they were forty. And when they became ministers, my parents,
who had raised us to believe the education was so critical,
instead of simply saying, well, we are we have this calling,
they applied to graduate school and at the age of
forty were both admitted to Emory University. Moved us to
Georgia because they wanted us to watch them not only
(08:59):
meet their hauling but practice what they preach, which is
that if you're going to serve others, you've got to
know what you're talking about. And even though they had
both grown up in the church, they knew they needed
their edition of the Seminary to make it stronger and
to help them guide their parishioners. And so what I
learned from my family was just this constant live what
(09:21):
you say from what my parents did. And I mean
they had struggles and challenges, but they never allowed those
things to overwhelm them, including poverty, including discrimination. You're listening
to Back to Biz with Katie and Bows. When we
come back, Stacy Abrams shares what we can do now
to ensure a safe and fair election this November. Let's
(09:52):
return to our conversation with Stacy Abrams. It's interesting to
me that in your book you said, thinking back to
your election, that it still made you angry today. By
the way, makes me angry. To f y, I makes
me right. All of us are angry. Um. And even
though you know you must have been livid when and
(10:15):
excuse my language because you know we both come from
preacher parents, but I'm just gonna have to say it.
The ship hit the fan. You know, language is important, Okay, exactly? Um?
But how how, how, how can Georgia be back in
this place again? Quite frankly the entire nation, but obviously
(10:35):
Georgia where you are. How can it be back in
this in this place again? What do you think happened
and what is happening? What happened in was the culmination
of almost a decade of voter suppression architecture, and the
new Secretary State had no interest in dismantling it. We
(10:55):
filed a lawsuit in two thousand and nineteen that articulated
almost every one of the challenges that people saw in
real time last Tuesday. But part of the issue was
that when we told our story, a lot of folks
didn't believe us. They thought that I was just, you know,
espousing salary grapes, that I was trying to explain away
(11:16):
the result. And as I've always said, I didn't contest
the outcome of the election. I could have filed a contest,
I could have tried to relitigate it, and I may
or may not have been successful. But the point for
me in what I didn't concede was to say that
it's not about one politician or one race. This is
about an infrastructure that's supposed to serve citizens, and it's not.
(11:40):
It is stealing their voices and denying their choices, and
that is wrong. But the problem we had was that
there were tiny fixes I think galvanized out of either
embarrassment or the lawsuits we filed, but there was no
structural determination that what was what was a rye needed
to be fixed and till it started hurting people other
(12:01):
than the folks that wanted to vote for me, What
was so devastating on Tuesday was that it showed the
broken machinery of democracy can spread everywhere. It's not just
those you target. When you break the machinery, you break
it for everyone. And that's why Republicans were standing in
long lines. The Speaker of the House a conservative Republican.
(12:22):
He had multiple counties in his district that had to
get court orders to extend the lines because of the
incompetence and the deliberate indifference of the Secretary of State.
You can't fix a problem you don't acknowledge. We shake
our heads at the terrible nous of our elections, We
shake our heads at the stories of disentranchisement and voter suppression,
but as politicians, we were taught you don't say anything
(12:45):
about it because if you do, you'll depress the turnout
and people won't trust the system. My point is, how
can you trust a system that doesn't trust you, that
doesn't trust that your citizenship is a sufficient reason for
you to be able to participate, Which is why my
response was not to concede. I conceded the I acknowledge
the legal sufficiency, but I will not concede that the
(13:08):
system is right And what I'm proud of is the
fact that in this election cycle, every single major candidate
for the Democratic nomination talked about voter suppression, talked about
the attacks on our democracy. We didn't simply whisper it
in corners, but we called it aloud. And that's allowing
people to finally see it's not their fault. Because the
(13:30):
last piece I'll say is this, voter suppression is the
most insidious when it convinces you that you're the problem,
that you should have known, you should have done. You
were in a long line because you didn't think about it,
or because people are so enthusiastic. No, you're in a
long line because people under the people in charge under
resourced your precinct and did not value your vote. And
that is not right. I still can't get over the
(13:53):
fact Brian Kent, your opponent, ultimately declared the winner, was
the Secretary of State and in charge of the electoral process.
How messed up is that? I just don't get it.
How can that be? I I gave a talk to
a group of foreign ministers UM at an event last year,
(14:16):
and when I described what happened, the just look of
just people were aghast. They were absolutely stunned. Then the
United States, the person who is in charge of the
elections got to be the contestant, the referee, and the scorekeeper.
It's like Tom Brady being allowed to be the rest
(14:38):
at his own Super Bowl. He gets to inflateable. I
don't maybe don't want to go down that, Maybe don't
go into that, but it is it is. It is
that grotesque that we would have a system that permitted
the person responsible for making sure people could vote, we
allowed him to cherry pick who would get to vote.
(14:58):
And the reality he is even Chris Kobak, who has
been cited by federal courts for his aggressive voter suppression,
even he had the grace to step down and not
oversee his own election. Has that changed at all? I mean,
is there any hope that there is going to be
some forward movement. My belief is that we have to
set a baseline that says, no matter where you live
(15:21):
in America, this is the basic guarantee of democracy in
our elections. Number One, that you can register and stay
on the roles in America, So automatic registration and then
same day registration. We are one of the few industrialized,
democratized nations that puts the responsibility on every single person
(15:42):
to learn the election laws of the state they move into.
I'm a lawyer, I'm a well trained lawyer. You're a
Yale lawyer. I have to spend a lot of time
writing a book, and I still can't tell you all
the rules. And so we need that baseline. The Heroes Act,
which is currently pending before the Senate, passed the House
(16:02):
bipartisan It says we have to invest three point six
billion dollars into making sure our elections happen in November
because states are going to see as we saw in Georgia,
as we saw in Pennsylvania, in Maryland, in South Carolina,
and north in Nevada, we are seeing a massive increase
in the use of absentee ballots because people don't want
to die. But the states are hemorrhaging money because of quarantine,
(16:26):
because of shelter in place. The federal government's purpose is
that it's supposed to be the backstop in the moment
of crisis to assist our states and counties and our
local elections officials. So give them the money so they
can scale the elections. But the reason this matters is
that it also puts in place guardrails. That says, at
least for the pandemic, everyone who wants to vote by
(16:49):
mail can do so you don't have to have an excuse. Alabama,
for example, says that you you must either be disabled
over sixty five, but having COVID being exposed to COVID
I team is not a valid excuse. The Attorney General
and the governor of Texas are fighting tooth and nail
to make sure everyone has to vote in person. And
let's not forget that in their February primary they'd shut
(17:13):
down more than four hundred precincts, which led to eight
our lines in the Democratic presidential primary. The reason they
don't want absentee ballots is that they don't want people
to vote. And people remember those lines from February, and
if they get away with it, you will see the
competitive races and Texas suddenly fall into the hands of
Republicans because voters are scared out of voting. M hm, well,
(17:36):
speaking of fear, I mean, I'm very nervous about November,
and maybe very nervous is putting it lightly. I'm sure
given all you said, you might have some fears as well. Um,
what are your your concerns about November. So the reason
I wrote Our Time Is Now is to articulate the fears,
(18:00):
which is that voter suppression is real, it's operational, and
its strongest protection is the ignorance of the voter. If
you don't know what you're facing, you can't beat it.
And so I wanted to write it down and really
explain so that people could understand that it's not you.
Voter suppression is the most effective when it convinces us
(18:21):
it's not worth fighting, because it's so inevitable that the
harm is done. I don't want people to be defeated,
want them to be angry. I want them to be energized.
I want them to say, you're not gonna take my
vote for me. I may not want to use it,
but it's gonna be my choice, not yours. But my
hope is born of the fact that not not only
(18:42):
did I write this book, but I launched an organization
called fair Fight that's working in eighteen states, working to
make certain that we can guarantee access to the ballot.
And we can't guarantee it, but we can mitigate the
harm of voter suppression. We can increase the number of
volunteers willing to help, We can provide hotlines, we can
work in concert with those who are filing lawsuits to
(19:05):
knock down some of these barriers. And so my hopefulness
comes from the fact that we now that we know
what's happening, Now that we know what the Republicans intend
to do with their voter intimidation tactics, Now that we
understand that they're going to spend sixty million dollars and
raise an army of fifty thousand whole observers to intimidate
voters of color. Now that we know that we can
(19:26):
fight back, because in every other election we just hope
that people would follow the Marquis of Queensbury rules, and
if they didn't, then Wed sue. We can't wait for
the harm to happen. We've got to interfere and interceed now.
And I'm proud of the fact that we're part of
a national coalition of organizations dedicated to expanding access to
the right to vote and protecting it for Americans. You're
(19:48):
listening to Back to Biz with Katie and Bows. When
we come back, Stacy Abrams on how we can fix
our policing problem. Welcome back to back to biz with
Katie and Bows. We're talking with Stacey Abram's inspiring activists,
(20:08):
politician and author. Let's get back to our conversation. We're
talking about voter suppression and the elections and all of this,
but and COVID and all kinds of things. But it's
also with the additional stories, uh that continue. I mean
thirty years ago, the Rodney King verdict unleashed you know
(20:34):
more unrest, right, I mean you're you're an activist of course,
and you protested. Then how are you viewing this moment
of our unrest. I I don't call it deja vous,
but it is the repeat of history that we've always
been warned about. Yeah, we know the history will repeat itself.
(20:55):
The question is what do we do when it comes again?
And what happened in two is eerily similar to what's
happening today. You had a man who faced recorded and
recorded episode of police brutality, and what set off the
demonstrations was the exoneration of that officer, the refusal to
(21:17):
take action in a way that was meaningful. In fact,
it was the tacit acceptance that this black man deserves
to be beaten because of something they couldn't have possibly
known at that moment when they used their force to
harm him. It was the dehumanization of blackness that we
saw play out there, and it's what we see today.
But here's the difference in when it happened. We heard
(21:41):
lots of chiding, lots of dismissal of the concerns. You
had a few promises, but in an election year for president,
you did not hear the president of the nominee prepare
himself and declare that he was going to do something
about it. That didn't happen. And I have a great
deal of respect for um President Clinton and what he
(22:02):
was able to do. But that was a failure, and
that was a missed opportunity that cemented for another generation
the legitimacy of that behavior. What we see in this
moment is a more instant response, of actual solution building,
of actual attempts to address the challenge. And what is
even more important is the persistence of those protesters. We
(22:26):
protested for a few days, and I was proud of
those protests. I was proud of the work I did
through the student organizations I was a part of. I
tried to tackle the issue of gang violence, of youth poverty.
I did a lot of my work, but I was
one person who was at the very bottom of any
totem polar power. In fact, I was like the sand
underneath it. We got kicked around. But what we see
(22:47):
today is that the protesters are actually driving change. When
Donald Trump came out yesterday with his you know, very
merely police reform, which basically is he's going to create
an Excel spreadsheet to try to solve the problem, even
that is a it's an analysis that says I recognize
(23:08):
that this is an issue and that I'm going to
be held accountable. But what's even more important to me
is that Joe Biden has met this moment almost every
single day by trying to offer both listening and solutions.
That we have people at every level of government who
are engaged and reacting. And that's what's so important, because
we can't disconnect this moment from voting. Voting is the
(23:31):
medicine we take to cure the disease of systemic racism,
of systemic injustice, the police brutality. Because we're gonna be
electing local officials, mayors who are gonna be hiring these
police chiefs. We're gonna be electing the state legislators who
can finally start to mitigate some of these things like
the citizen arrest laws that allowed a mod Arebrey to
be murdered. And we're gonna be electing senators and congressmen
(23:53):
and women who can make the decision that qualified immunity
is wrong and for for the first time, take it
back and say that you have to be held accountable,
that you cannot murder citizens under the color of saying
that you were just doing your job. Those are things
that can happen in this moment that we never had
a conversation about before. And it all has to do
with voting. And you know, the sustained crescendo of these
(24:16):
protests Stacy had. It's been so powerful, and you're right,
people are trying to figure out real solutions. But Joe
Biden himself, for example, said he was against defunding police,
which I think needs a rebranding. To be honest with you,
because defunding, I think is quite misleading. I think it
really means, to my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, please,
(24:40):
is reallocating resources and re examining these huge budgets that
go into police departments all over the country. Um, where
do you stand on defunding police, abolishing police, reforming police? So,
defund the police is a phrase that is being used
by activists as their rally and cry, and as someone
(25:03):
who was an activist, I do not feel it is
my place to critique the language that they used to
describe the urgency, the exigency, and the anguish that they feel.
As someone who is in policy making, it's my responsibility
to understand the substance of that vision, and I describe
it for myself as reformation and transformation. We have to
reform the behaviors and practices that oversee the the distribution
(25:28):
of public safety in our society. That doesn't permit Ray
Shard Brooks to be murdered because he stole a taser.
That is what we need to see. We need no
knock warrants to be outlawed so that Brianna Taylor does
not that she becomes the last black woman to die
in her bed because they didn't have to announce that
they had made a mistake. So there's that first piece.
There's the reformation of practices and policies, and then to
(25:51):
your point, it is the transformation of how we fund society,
how much money we put into what we call policing
versus what we should call public safety, because part of
public safety is making the safe, making the public safe
to be who they are and to give them opportunity
to thrive. And that means investing in education, in health care,
and community diversion programs and community building programs. It's also
(26:13):
about making sure people can bank, because if you're in
a black community, you're the least likely to have access
to banking. It's making certain that the reallocation of resources
speak to our values and that the budget decisions that
we make are actually the right ones. And if that
means taking some money away from programs that militarize the
police and putting those dollars instead and making sure that
(26:34):
kids have full and whole education, then I'm absolutely a
fan of that transformation. But what I don't want to
see get caught up in is this false dynamic that
says that it's one or the other, that you can
either reform or you can transform. It is a both
and conversation, and it's a both and imperative. Do you
think that it might hurt the Democrats at all in
(26:55):
the fall if some of these things aren't clearly enumerated
it and kind of explain because I hear you about
not questioning language, but let's face it, you know, language
can be misleading and people can become misguided. And that's
one thing I wonder about. I'm not saying you don't
(27:15):
question language. I'm saying I'm not going to question the
rallying cries used by the activist because I remind folks
that the Tea Party had some fairly strong invective and
some fairly outlandish ideas in two thousand ten, and it worked.
They were able to take over Congress. And so this notion,
if what galvanizes people to action, what drives them to
(27:37):
the polls is the fact that they believe that they
could hire people to accomplish their vision. I don't think
people care what you call it. They care what you do.
And what Democrats have to be willing to do is
speak to the policies they are willing to fight for.
If they don't like the language that's used to describe
it within the activist community, I I don't. I don't
hold them accountable for that, but I do think we
(27:57):
have to hold them accountable for the policies they pose
and for how they intend to meet this moment. You
know what, say, see, let me tell you something. Should
you be the vice president candidate, I would vote for you.
So can we can we talk about that a little bit,
because obviously it's it's refreshing to think of you in
(28:19):
that role. Can you give us your pitch for for
the job? Well, I want to be clear, you can't
pitch for the job of VP. That is Joe Biden's decision.
What I've said consistently since March of is that if called,
I will answer, and when asked if I'm qualified, I
say absolutely I am, And that's my responsibility. But it's
(28:42):
our responsibility to ensure that no matter who he picks,
that that person, that woman is going to be supported
in her work. Because the job of the vice president
is to be the chief lieutenant to the President of
the United States. To living out that vision, I believe
that we can tackle these challenges. I have a whole
(29:05):
section dedicate chapter dedicated to the census, because that's how
we get the economic and political power we need and
we so often ignore. I have a whole section dedicated
to identity politics because I am not going to let
anyone tell me that my experiences as a black woman
do not have relevance and how I make selections about
for whom I'm going to vote. And just as we
saw yesterday or I think it was two days ago
(29:27):
with the Supreme Court decision, identity matters. It tells us
who we are and who we can become, and it
tells us about the barriers to success. And the fact
that it took till two thousand and twenty for the
voting for the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four
to acknowledge the sexual orientation and gender identity deserve protection
is a perfect example of why identity politics matter. So
(29:49):
my belief is that we can win if we follow
the playbook that says we treat every voter, every American,
every person in our country as human, having value and
work and if we're willing to invest in their success.
And that's what I hope the next Vice president will
bring to the ticket. And it's why I'm so excited
to be a part of the conversation. But I know
(30:10):
it's Joe Biden's decision. How important is it to you symbolically,
policy wise, taking into account everything that it is a
person of color in that role. I've said this before.
I think we cannot presume to know what Joe Biden
needs as a partner in this campaign or in his administration,
(30:33):
because about the country needs no no, I'm getting here.
He's He's the only person who has held this job,
and I trust him to make the decision that's right.
I think that having a woman of color as his
running mate is an incredibly powerful signal that shows that
the face of leadership can continue to evolve and transform
(30:54):
and include more people. But I do not believe that
Joe Biden will take any community for granted. And and
if his choice is not the choice I would have made,
I am not going to disparage that choice, because we
are making advances in every single moment, including the fact
that he is willing to make a woman his vice
presidential nominee. But more than that, I want to know
(31:14):
what the president of the United States intends to do
about my community and about the issues that matter to me.
And that's got to be the fundamental point that I
look at. That said, as I said before, I think
it's an important signal, and I think it could be
a very critical and credible way to talk about the
future of our nation. Stacy abrahams, it's such a pleasure
(31:35):
to just have this conversation with you and to hear
your point of view so brilliantly stated in every way. Uh.
Both Bose and I admire you deeply and I can't
thank you enough for for being on our podcast. Thank
you so much. Thank you. And as we began, live
long and prosper thank you, thank you. Yes we will.
(32:04):
I'm really glad we had that conversation and I feel
very energized and motivated to do what I can to
help get out the vote and make sure that everybody
has an opportunity to have their voices heard. Agreed, Agreed,
couldn't be more of a perfect title. Right, Our time
is now. That's right, that's the title of Stacy Abram's
new book. That does it. For this episode of Back
(32:28):
to Biz with Katie and Bows Now. If you're not already,
you can subscribe to the podcast on the I Heart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows. And a personal plea for me and Bows,
please subscribe to our podcast and you can find more
about all the cool people were talking to, as well
as our favorite moments from these episodes on our Instagram
(32:50):
feeds and stories. Until next time, I'm Katie Curic and
I'm Bozma St John and this is back to Days
with Katie and Bows. Thank you all so much for listening.
Back to Biz with Katie and Bows is a production
(33:12):
of I Heart Radio and Katie Current Media. The executive
producers are Katie currk, Bozma St John, and Courtney Litz.
The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. The associate producers are
Derek Clements, Eliza Costas, and Emily Pinto. Editing by Derrek
Clements and Lauren Hansen, Mixing by Derrek Clements. Special thanks
(33:32):
to Adriana Fasio. For more information about today's episode, go
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Couric and Bozma St John on Twitter and Instagram. For
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Hi everyone. I'm Katie Curic and I'm Bozma st John
and this is back to Biz with Katie and Bows. Bows.
I don't know about you, but I'm super psyched today
because Stacy Abrams is such a rock star. And I'm
sure you probably agree. Oh yes, I certainly agree. She
has that black girl magic. It can't be bottled. Hers
(00:23):
is coming out of her ears, out of her toes, everywhere. Gosh,
that magic. She's got it. Now, if you guys have
heard of Stacy Abrams, who probably know about her historic
run for governor of Georgia two years ago in two
thousand eighteen, she narrowly lost to Brian Kemp, who was
then the Secretary of State. And we'll be talking about
that obviously, bows right. And Stacy was the first black
(00:47):
woman in the US to win the nomination for governor period.
I'm first black woman. Did you? Did you hear me? Did? Okay? Ever?
In the US? Like ever? Okay? Well, I'm just saying
she's history making. She was born in Madison, Wisconsin, raised
in Gulfport, Mississippi, and her family moved to Atlanta, where
both her parents got graduate degrees and became Methodist ministers.
(01:09):
So she's also a p K, otherwise known as as
Preacher's kid. That's oh, that's a new one for me,
Thank you. Bo's Yeah, And I know that her family
really focused on education and it showed with Stacy. She
graduated Magnicum Loudie from Spellman and then she got her
law degree from Yale, so she's quite the smarty pants.
She then served in the Georgia House of Representatives for
(01:32):
ten years. She's been an activist her whole life, fighting
particularly for voting rights, and she's got a new book
out bows called Our Time Is Now. It's perfect for
this moment and this movement. It's a call to action
to protest, but also to participate and vote during this
age of transformational change. That's right, this is perfect And
(01:54):
I'm so excited to have her on this show. You know,
not only do we share being p k's, but she's
also a fellow trekky prosper baby. You know what. I'm
more of a Picard person. So we'll see where she is. Um,
we'll talk to her about her book, about November and
about all that has been happening in her home state,
(02:15):
from Georgia's primary debacle to the death of Ray Schard
Brooks in Atlanta. But first we want to get to
know her a little bit. So let's get to it. Okay,
So now here's the big question. Of course, are you
under the tutelage of Captain Kirk or Captain Picard? The card? See,
I knew, I knew it. I knew it all along.
(02:37):
I knew that we were sisters. I knew it. But
before you fall too deeply in love, I think that
Captain Picard is the archetype of a star Trek captain.
But I think Captain Janeway had the hardest mission and
did the best work, you know what. Say, so let
me tell you something. Okay, we we are. I think
we're meant to be because the way I'm feeling about
(02:58):
Jane Way, I just wish that she had more of
an audience, you know, But that could also speak to
our issues anyway, exactly right, which is why she she was.
I love the card. He will always be the archetype.
But look, it's it's it is much harder to be
a captain when you are stranded and have to hold
your values with no one else holding you accountable. You
(03:22):
know what, This could just start off the entire conversation. Well,
except I feel very left out, ladies, because I don't
watch Star Trek. I will say that. Just think about
it this way. In a pantheon of men who get
credit for everything, this was a woman who had the heart,
was sent away from everything, no resources, and still managed
to be just a badass. Yes, tell it. And I
(03:46):
feel like everything we need to know about life in
society we could learn on Star Trek. I'm gonna I'm
gonna have to start watching it, ladies, so I can
be part of this conversation. So welcome you into the cult.
Thank you, thank you, Live long and prosper. Right there
you go. Earlier I said, may the Force be with you,
and BO said no, no, no, that's Star Wars, completely
(04:09):
different universe. Anyway, Well, we want to talk about your universe,
Stacy Abrams, because it's so fascinating. We have so much
to cover, and we wanted to start with learning a
little more about you as a person. I know that
you share a memory in your new book called Our
Time Is Now that kind of tells us a lot
(04:30):
about what you were like as a child that informed
who you became as an adult, and that was when
you were six years old and you got into your
only schoolyard fight. Wait for it, everyone over the nineteen
eighty election between Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan. I love
that you got into a fight at six about politics.
(04:51):
Can you take us back to what you were fighting
about and what it tells us about who you were
as a kid. I grew up in Gulfport, Mississippi, which
was one of the more liberal places in the state
of Mississippi, but still fairly conservative. I went to elementary
school that was integrated, but I tended to end up
(05:14):
in classes. My classroom was predominantly white, and there was
a young woman in the class who she and I
actually became friends. But she we had this mock election,
and she called Jimmy Carter a communist and said that
he had destroyed America. And in our family, we grew
up watching morning news, we watched the evening news like
(05:38):
we were steeped in politics. Not in a overwhelming way,
but it was what was playing. And when she called
him a communist, I told her to take it back.
She wouldn't. I challenged her to defend her accusations. I
told her that that Ronald Reagan was a fascist because
I'd heard that terminology used as well, and she threw
(05:58):
a book at me. I also, I'm the second of
six kids, so I was raised to understand that if
you were ever in an you know, in a confrontation,
you should use overwhelming force to end it as quickly
as possible. She threw a book, I shoved a desk atter.
I won, harder lost, but you know I stood in
my in my ground. Wow, you really defended yourself and
(06:22):
and were you that sort of committed and passionate throughout
your childhood? I was? I mean, I'm not. I am
not a high emotion person, but I am very goal oriented.
I had four younger siblings and an older sister who
was just incredibly kind to all of us. She was
(06:43):
three years older than I am. But in our family,
we were raised to believe that you're responsible for those
who were weak, who are vulnerable, who are related to you.
But we were also raised to have strong opinions, not
necessarily to be confrontational, but to believe. And if you
leaved something, you should know why you believed it. Yeah. Well,
you also credit your parents with getting you where you are.
(07:06):
Did the lessons that you learned in your upbringing, or
the insight about your parents that they help you despite
all the obstacles that they faced. So my parents when
I was growing up, my mom and dad were both um.
They work, They were working people. My mom was a
college librarian. My dad was a shipyard worker. My father
was dyslexic, and even though he had a college degree
(07:28):
and is one of the smartest people I've ever met,
because he couldn't read functionally until he was in his thirties,
he couldn't get a job in an office. And so
this bright man with this incredible mind, because he could
not read and interact in the way they expected, he
worked in a shipyard, not really using his mind, more
using his strength. My dad really was the first person
(07:52):
who taught us about feminism, because he believed that gender
did not prescribe or circumscribe what we were capable of.
My mom was a college librarian who sometimes made less
money than the janitor who cleaned the college, and she
was raising six children with my father. They were always struggling,
but they always found time and the impetus to make
(08:15):
certain that our world was broader than just the little
house we lived in on South Street. And so as
a child what I internalized was this deep commitment to justice,
a commitment to engagement, the fact that our circumstances were
never going to constrain our capacity and our futures. And
when they became ministers I was fifteen. I mean, they
(08:37):
preached us our whole lives, but they formalized that when
they were forty. And when they became ministers, my parents,
who had raised us to believe the education was so critical,
instead of simply saying, well, we are we have this calling,
they applied to graduate school and at the age of
forty were both admitted to Emory University. Moved us to
Georgia because they wanted us to watch them not only
(08:59):
meet their hauling but practice what they preach, which is
that if you're going to serve others, you've got to
know what you're talking about. And even though they had
both grown up in the church, they knew they needed
their edition of the Seminary to make it stronger and
to help them guide their parishioners. And so what I
learned from my family was just this constant live what
(09:21):
you say from what my parents did. And I mean
they had struggles and challenges, but they never allowed those
things to overwhelm them, including poverty, including discrimination. You're listening
to Back to Biz with Katie and Bows. When we
come back, Stacy Abrams shares what we can do now
to ensure a safe and fair election this November. Let's
(09:52):
return to our conversation with Stacy Abrams. It's interesting to
me that in your book you said, thinking back to
your election, that it still made you angry today. By
the way, makes me angry. To f y, I makes
me right. All of us are angry. Um. And even
though you know you must have been livid when and
(10:15):
excuse my language because you know we both come from
preacher parents, but I'm just gonna have to say it.
The ship hit the fan. You know, language is important, Okay, exactly? Um?
But how how, how, how can Georgia be back in
this place again? Quite frankly the entire nation, but obviously
(10:35):
Georgia where you are. How can it be back in
this in this place again? What do you think happened
and what is happening? What happened in was the culmination
of almost a decade of voter suppression architecture, and the
new Secretary State had no interest in dismantling it. We
(10:55):
filed a lawsuit in two thousand and nineteen that articulated
almost every one of the challenges that people saw in
real time last Tuesday. But part of the issue was
that when we told our story, a lot of folks
didn't believe us. They thought that I was just, you know,
espousing salary grapes, that I was trying to explain away
(11:16):
the result. And as I've always said, I didn't contest
the outcome of the election. I could have filed a contest,
I could have tried to relitigate it, and I may
or may not have been successful. But the point for
me in what I didn't concede was to say that
it's not about one politician or one race. This is
about an infrastructure that's supposed to serve citizens, and it's not.
(11:40):
It is stealing their voices and denying their choices, and
that is wrong. But the problem we had was that
there were tiny fixes I think galvanized out of either
embarrassment or the lawsuits we filed, but there was no
structural determination that what was what was a rye needed
to be fixed and till it started hurting people other
(12:01):
than the folks that wanted to vote for me, What
was so devastating on Tuesday was that it showed the
broken machinery of democracy can spread everywhere. It's not just
those you target. When you break the machinery, you break
it for everyone. And that's why Republicans were standing in
long lines. The Speaker of the House a conservative Republican.
(12:22):
He had multiple counties in his district that had to
get court orders to extend the lines because of the
incompetence and the deliberate indifference of the Secretary of State.
You can't fix a problem you don't acknowledge. We shake
our heads at the terrible nous of our elections, We
shake our heads at the stories of disentranchisement and voter suppression,
but as politicians, we were taught you don't say anything
(12:45):
about it because if you do, you'll depress the turnout
and people won't trust the system. My point is, how
can you trust a system that doesn't trust you, that
doesn't trust that your citizenship is a sufficient reason for
you to be able to participate, Which is why my
response was not to concede. I conceded the I acknowledge
the legal sufficiency, but I will not concede that the
(13:08):
system is right And what I'm proud of is the
fact that in this election cycle, every single major candidate
for the Democratic nomination talked about voter suppression, talked about
the attacks on our democracy. We didn't simply whisper it
in corners, but we called it aloud. And that's allowing
people to finally see it's not their fault. Because the
(13:30):
last piece I'll say is this, voter suppression is the
most insidious when it convinces you that you're the problem,
that you should have known, you should have done. You
were in a long line because you didn't think about it,
or because people are so enthusiastic. No, you're in a
long line because people under the people in charge under
resourced your precinct and did not value your vote. And
that is not right. I still can't get over the
(13:53):
fact Brian Kent, your opponent, ultimately declared the winner, was
the Secretary of State and in charge of the electoral process.
How messed up is that? I just don't get it.
How can that be? I I gave a talk to
a group of foreign ministers UM at an event last year,
(14:16):
and when I described what happened, the just look of
just people were aghast. They were absolutely stunned. Then the
United States, the person who is in charge of the
elections got to be the contestant, the referee, and the scorekeeper.
It's like Tom Brady being allowed to be the rest
(14:38):
at his own Super Bowl. He gets to inflateable. I
don't maybe don't want to go down that, Maybe don't
go into that, but it is it is. It is
that grotesque that we would have a system that permitted
the person responsible for making sure people could vote, we
allowed him to cherry pick who would get to vote.
(14:58):
And the reality he is even Chris Kobak, who has
been cited by federal courts for his aggressive voter suppression,
even he had the grace to step down and not
oversee his own election. Has that changed at all? I mean,
is there any hope that there is going to be
some forward movement. My belief is that we have to
set a baseline that says, no matter where you live
(15:21):
in America, this is the basic guarantee of democracy in
our elections. Number One, that you can register and stay
on the roles in America, So automatic registration and then
same day registration. We are one of the few industrialized,
democratized nations that puts the responsibility on every single person
(15:42):
to learn the election laws of the state they move into.
I'm a lawyer, I'm a well trained lawyer. You're a
Yale lawyer. I have to spend a lot of time
writing a book, and I still can't tell you all
the rules. And so we need that baseline. The Heroes Act,
which is currently pending before the Senate, passed the House
(16:02):
bipartisan It says we have to invest three point six
billion dollars into making sure our elections happen in November
because states are going to see as we saw in Georgia,
as we saw in Pennsylvania, in Maryland, in South Carolina,
and north in Nevada, we are seeing a massive increase
in the use of absentee ballots because people don't want
to die. But the states are hemorrhaging money because of quarantine,
(16:26):
because of shelter in place. The federal government's purpose is
that it's supposed to be the backstop in the moment
of crisis to assist our states and counties and our
local elections officials. So give them the money so they
can scale the elections. But the reason this matters is
that it also puts in place guardrails. That says, at
least for the pandemic, everyone who wants to vote by
(16:49):
mail can do so you don't have to have an excuse. Alabama,
for example, says that you you must either be disabled
over sixty five, but having COVID being exposed to COVID
I team is not a valid excuse. The Attorney General
and the governor of Texas are fighting tooth and nail
to make sure everyone has to vote in person. And
let's not forget that in their February primary they'd shut
(17:13):
down more than four hundred precincts, which led to eight
our lines in the Democratic presidential primary. The reason they
don't want absentee ballots is that they don't want people
to vote. And people remember those lines from February, and
if they get away with it, you will see the
competitive races and Texas suddenly fall into the hands of
Republicans because voters are scared out of voting. M hm, well,
(17:36):
speaking of fear, I mean, I'm very nervous about November,
and maybe very nervous is putting it lightly. I'm sure
given all you said, you might have some fears as well. Um,
what are your your concerns about November. So the reason
I wrote Our Time Is Now is to articulate the fears,
(18:00):
which is that voter suppression is real, it's operational, and
its strongest protection is the ignorance of the voter. If
you don't know what you're facing, you can't beat it.
And so I wanted to write it down and really
explain so that people could understand that it's not you.
Voter suppression is the most effective when it convinces us
(18:21):
it's not worth fighting, because it's so inevitable that the
harm is done. I don't want people to be defeated,
want them to be angry. I want them to be energized.
I want them to say, you're not gonna take my
vote for me. I may not want to use it,
but it's gonna be my choice, not yours. But my
hope is born of the fact that not not only
(18:42):
did I write this book, but I launched an organization
called fair Fight that's working in eighteen states, working to
make certain that we can guarantee access to the ballot.
And we can't guarantee it, but we can mitigate the
harm of voter suppression. We can increase the number of
volunteers willing to help, We can provide hotlines, we can
work in concert with those who are filing lawsuits to
(19:05):
knock down some of these barriers. And so my hopefulness
comes from the fact that we now that we know
what's happening, Now that we know what the Republicans intend
to do with their voter intimidation tactics, Now that we
understand that they're going to spend sixty million dollars and
raise an army of fifty thousand whole observers to intimidate
voters of color. Now that we know that we can
(19:26):
fight back, because in every other election we just hope
that people would follow the Marquis of Queensbury rules, and
if they didn't, then Wed sue. We can't wait for
the harm to happen. We've got to interfere and interceed now.
And I'm proud of the fact that we're part of
a national coalition of organizations dedicated to expanding access to
the right to vote and protecting it for Americans. You're
(19:48):
listening to Back to Biz with Katie and Bows. When
we come back, Stacy Abrams on how we can fix
our policing problem. Welcome back to back to biz with
Katie and Bows. We're talking with Stacey Abram's inspiring activists,
(20:08):
politician and author. Let's get back to our conversation. We're
talking about voter suppression and the elections and all of this,
but and COVID and all kinds of things. But it's
also with the additional stories, uh that continue. I mean
thirty years ago, the Rodney King verdict unleashed you know
(20:34):
more unrest, right, I mean you're you're an activist of course,
and you protested. Then how are you viewing this moment
of our unrest. I I don't call it deja vous,
but it is the repeat of history that we've always
been warned about. Yeah, we know the history will repeat itself.
(20:55):
The question is what do we do when it comes again?
And what happened in two is eerily similar to what's
happening today. You had a man who faced recorded and
recorded episode of police brutality, and what set off the
demonstrations was the exoneration of that officer, the refusal to
(21:17):
take action in a way that was meaningful. In fact,
it was the tacit acceptance that this black man deserves
to be beaten because of something they couldn't have possibly
known at that moment when they used their force to
harm him. It was the dehumanization of blackness that we
saw play out there, and it's what we see today.
But here's the difference in when it happened. We heard
(21:41):
lots of chiding, lots of dismissal of the concerns. You
had a few promises, but in an election year for president,
you did not hear the president of the nominee prepare
himself and declare that he was going to do something
about it. That didn't happen. And I have a great
deal of respect for um President Clinton and what he
(22:02):
was able to do. But that was a failure, and
that was a missed opportunity that cemented for another generation
the legitimacy of that behavior. What we see in this
moment is a more instant response, of actual solution building,
of actual attempts to address the challenge. And what is
even more important is the persistence of those protesters. We
(22:26):
protested for a few days, and I was proud of
those protests. I was proud of the work I did
through the student organizations I was a part of. I
tried to tackle the issue of gang violence, of youth poverty.
I did a lot of my work, but I was
one person who was at the very bottom of any
totem polar power. In fact, I was like the sand
underneath it. We got kicked around. But what we see
(22:47):
today is that the protesters are actually driving change. When
Donald Trump came out yesterday with his you know, very
merely police reform, which basically is he's going to create
an Excel spreadsheet to try to solve the problem, even
that is a it's an analysis that says I recognize
(23:08):
that this is an issue and that I'm going to
be held accountable. But what's even more important to me
is that Joe Biden has met this moment almost every
single day by trying to offer both listening and solutions.
That we have people at every level of government who
are engaged and reacting. And that's what's so important, because
we can't disconnect this moment from voting. Voting is the
(23:31):
medicine we take to cure the disease of systemic racism,
of systemic injustice, the police brutality. Because we're gonna be
electing local officials, mayors who are gonna be hiring these
police chiefs. We're gonna be electing the state legislators who
can finally start to mitigate some of these things like
the citizen arrest laws that allowed a mod Arebrey to
be murdered. And we're gonna be electing senators and congressmen
(23:53):
and women who can make the decision that qualified immunity
is wrong and for for the first time, take it
back and say that you have to be held accountable,
that you cannot murder citizens under the color of saying
that you were just doing your job. Those are things
that can happen in this moment that we never had
a conversation about before. And it all has to do
with voting. And you know, the sustained crescendo of these
(24:16):
protests Stacy had. It's been so powerful, and you're right,
people are trying to figure out real solutions. But Joe
Biden himself, for example, said he was against defunding police,
which I think needs a rebranding. To be honest with you,
because defunding, I think is quite misleading. I think it
really means, to my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, please,
(24:40):
is reallocating resources and re examining these huge budgets that
go into police departments all over the country. Um, where
do you stand on defunding police, abolishing police, reforming police? So,
defund the police is a phrase that is being used
by activists as their rally and cry, and as someone
(25:03):
who was an activist, I do not feel it is
my place to critique the language that they used to
describe the urgency, the exigency, and the anguish that they feel.
As someone who is in policy making, it's my responsibility
to understand the substance of that vision, and I describe
it for myself as reformation and transformation. We have to
reform the behaviors and practices that oversee the the distribution
(25:28):
of public safety in our society. That doesn't permit Ray
Shard Brooks to be murdered because he stole a taser.
That is what we need to see. We need no
knock warrants to be outlawed so that Brianna Taylor does
not that she becomes the last black woman to die
in her bed because they didn't have to announce that
they had made a mistake. So there's that first piece.
There's the reformation of practices and policies, and then to
(25:51):
your point, it is the transformation of how we fund society,
how much money we put into what we call policing
versus what we should call public safety, because part of
public safety is making the safe, making the public safe
to be who they are and to give them opportunity
to thrive. And that means investing in education, in health care,
and community diversion programs and community building programs. It's also
(26:13):
about making sure people can bank, because if you're in
a black community, you're the least likely to have access
to banking. It's making certain that the reallocation of resources
speak to our values and that the budget decisions that
we make are actually the right ones. And if that
means taking some money away from programs that militarize the
police and putting those dollars instead and making sure that
(26:34):
kids have full and whole education, then I'm absolutely a
fan of that transformation. But what I don't want to
see get caught up in is this false dynamic that
says that it's one or the other, that you can
either reform or you can transform. It is a both
and conversation, and it's a both and imperative. Do you
think that it might hurt the Democrats at all in
(26:55):
the fall if some of these things aren't clearly enumerated
it and kind of explain because I hear you about
not questioning language, but let's face it, you know, language
can be misleading and people can become misguided. And that's
one thing I wonder about. I'm not saying you don't
(27:15):
question language. I'm saying I'm not going to question the
rallying cries used by the activist because I remind folks
that the Tea Party had some fairly strong invective and
some fairly outlandish ideas in two thousand ten, and it worked.
They were able to take over Congress. And so this notion,
if what galvanizes people to action, what drives them to
(27:37):
the polls is the fact that they believe that they
could hire people to accomplish their vision. I don't think
people care what you call it. They care what you do.
And what Democrats have to be willing to do is
speak to the policies they are willing to fight for.
If they don't like the language that's used to describe
it within the activist community, I I don't. I don't
hold them accountable for that, but I do think we
(27:57):
have to hold them accountable for the policies they pose
and for how they intend to meet this moment. You
know what, say, see, let me tell you something. Should
you be the vice president candidate, I would vote for you.
So can we can we talk about that a little bit,
because obviously it's it's refreshing to think of you in
(28:19):
that role. Can you give us your pitch for for
the job? Well, I want to be clear, you can't
pitch for the job of VP. That is Joe Biden's decision.
What I've said consistently since March of is that if called,
I will answer, and when asked if I'm qualified, I
say absolutely I am, And that's my responsibility. But it's
(28:42):
our responsibility to ensure that no matter who he picks,
that that person, that woman is going to be supported
in her work. Because the job of the vice president
is to be the chief lieutenant to the President of
the United States. To living out that vision, I believe
that we can tackle these challenges. I have a whole
(29:05):
section dedicate chapter dedicated to the census, because that's how
we get the economic and political power we need and
we so often ignore. I have a whole section dedicated
to identity politics because I am not going to let
anyone tell me that my experiences as a black woman
do not have relevance and how I make selections about
for whom I'm going to vote. And just as we
saw yesterday or I think it was two days ago
(29:27):
with the Supreme Court decision, identity matters. It tells us
who we are and who we can become, and it
tells us about the barriers to success. And the fact
that it took till two thousand and twenty for the
voting for the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four
to acknowledge the sexual orientation and gender identity deserve protection
is a perfect example of why identity politics matter. So
(29:49):
my belief is that we can win if we follow
the playbook that says we treat every voter, every American,
every person in our country as human, having value and
work and if we're willing to invest in their success.
And that's what I hope the next Vice president will
bring to the ticket. And it's why I'm so excited
to be a part of the conversation. But I know
(30:10):
it's Joe Biden's decision. How important is it to you symbolically,
policy wise, taking into account everything that it is a
person of color in that role. I've said this before.
I think we cannot presume to know what Joe Biden
needs as a partner in this campaign or in his administration,
(30:33):
because about the country needs no no, I'm getting here.
He's He's the only person who has held this job,
and I trust him to make the decision that's right.
I think that having a woman of color as his
running mate is an incredibly powerful signal that shows that
the face of leadership can continue to evolve and transform
(30:54):
and include more people. But I do not believe that
Joe Biden will take any community for granted. And and
if his choice is not the choice I would have made,
I am not going to disparage that choice, because we
are making advances in every single moment, including the fact
that he is willing to make a woman his vice
presidential nominee. But more than that, I want to know
(31:14):
what the president of the United States intends to do
about my community and about the issues that matter to me.
And that's got to be the fundamental point that I
look at. That said, as I said before, I think
it's an important signal, and I think it could be
a very critical and credible way to talk about the
future of our nation. Stacy abrahams, it's such a pleasure
(31:35):
to just have this conversation with you and to hear
your point of view so brilliantly stated in every way. Uh.
Both Bose and I admire you deeply and I can't
thank you enough for for being on our podcast. Thank
you so much. Thank you. And as we began, live
long and prosper thank you, thank you. Yes we will.
(32:04):
I'm really glad we had that conversation and I feel
very energized and motivated to do what I can to
help get out the vote and make sure that everybody
has an opportunity to have their voices heard. Agreed, Agreed,
couldn't be more of a perfect title. Right, Our time
is now. That's right, that's the title of Stacy Abram's
new book. That does it. For this episode of Back
(32:28):
to Biz with Katie and Bows Now. If you're not already,
you can subscribe to the podcast on the I Heart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows. And a personal plea for me and Bows,
please subscribe to our podcast and you can find more
about all the cool people were talking to, as well
as our favorite moments from these episodes on our Instagram
(32:50):
feeds and stories. Until next time, I'm Katie Curic and
I'm Bozma St John and this is back to Days
with Katie and Bows. Thank you all so much for listening.
Back to Biz with Katie and Bows is a production
(33:12):
of I Heart Radio and Katie Current Media. The executive
producers are Katie currk, Bozma St John, and Courtney Litz.
The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. The associate producers are
Derek Clements, Eliza Costas, and Emily Pinto. Editing by Derrek
Clements and Lauren Hansen, Mixing by Derrek Clements. Special thanks
(33:32):
to Adriana Fasio. For more information about today's episode, go
to Katie Kirk dot com. You can also follow Katie
Couric and Bozma St John on Twitter and Instagram. For
more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart
Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your
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