January 30, 2024 • 29 mins
Scotland, home of the Brave Hearts, but better yet, and certainly better than that joke. It's home to a lot of castles, so many we couldn't invade all of them in one episode, which is why this is part two of our Scottish Castle's Special. And if you were here for our Burns Night episode you'll already be familiar with Kildrummy Castle and Sterling Castle. On this episode, we're heading further south to Edinburgh Castle and further still to the borders. Thanks to my guest, this episode also provides me with a great opportunity to brush up on my Scottish insults! So buckle up, yer wee fuck bumpers 'cos we're off to Edinburgh! Todays guest is Eleanor Morton, who's a fellow stand up comedian and also a self confessed history nerd and makes TikTok videos as Craig the unenthused tour guide.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Scotland, home of the Brave Hearts, but better yet, and
certainly better than that joke. It's home to a lot
of castles, so many we couldn't invade all of them
in one episode, which is why this is part two
of our Scottish Castle's Special. And if you were here
for our Burns Night episode you'll already be familiar with
(00:25):
kill Drummy Castle and Sterling Castle. On this episode, we're
heading further south to Edinburgh Castle and further still to
the borders, so watch out for reavers. Thanks to my guest,
this episode also provides me with a great opportunity to
brush up on my Scottish insults, So buckle up. Yeah
(00:46):
wee fuck bumpers, We're off to Edinburgh. Join me on
the podcast. Today we have Ela Morton, who's a fellow
stand up comedian and also a self confessed history nerd
and makes TikTok videos as Craig the unenthused Piastic tour guys.
Eleanor is also up in Scotland and I'm up in England,
so the rivalry is already set. Hi, Eleanor, thank you
(01:07):
for joining us. How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I'm okay, thank you? How are you?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I'm very well, thank you go to talk castles with
you because you are you're you're a fan of castles.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I am. I'm very excited to talk to someone who's
lived in a castle.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
And a past tense sad. Sorry, we've already heard about
Sterling Castle with people being thrown out windows and people
dressed as chickens jumping off cliffs and kill Drummery with
(01:40):
Blacksmith being covered in molten gold. But today we are
going to move away from those two castles and we're
going to focus on firstly, Edinburgh Castle. I'm assuming this
one's your favorite. Is this the top castle?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah, well it's not. It's not the most dramatic or
the most romantic, but it has got the most history,
in the most stories. I guess it's the Tower of
London of Scotland.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
So yeah, definitely, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, it's where everything happened, and it's where all the
important things happened and therefore all kind of gruesome stuff
as well. And I think what I like about it
is that it sort of has continued to have a
life after the unification of the crowns, like it was
no longer the royal home, but then it became barracks
at a prison, and all sorts of different things happened.
So yeah, there's a lot of history.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
The unification of the crowns, by the way, happened in
sixteen oh three after the death of Queen Elizabeth I.
Lizzie had died unmarried and childless, so the English crown
passed to her next available heir, her cousin James, the
sixth King of Scotland. England and Scotland now shared the
same monarch, and the Scottish and the English lived happily
(02:50):
ever after. If by happily ever after you mean they
continue to hate each other for years to come. An
has been as I look at my notes, the most
besieged car mm hmm have three record attempts to take it.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah, definitely a lot of attempts. The thing about Edinburgh
Castle is, obviously, if you've been there, you know that
it's at the top of the Royal Mile, which is
like and it's on this rock, this volcano, extinct volcano,
I should say, And the reason it was besieged obviously
is because it's in this it's you know, it's only
about seventy miles north of an English border, so it's
in a perfect position to be constantly attacked. And then
(03:26):
the reason that the Royal Mile and all the old
town is sort of all costed around the castle is
basically because of this constant fear of invasion. So that's
why the old town is sort of all this rickety
tall old buildings will kind of smush together, is because
Edinburgh is constantly being attacked for years and years.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Let's delve deeper into the let's do it juicy histories
of the castle. Let's start with the Stone of Destiny.
So tell us about this.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
The Stone Destiny is a stone massively surprising and it's
from I think it's from Scone originally, which is sort
of up in Perthshire. And basically this it was traditionally
what the old Scottish kings would get crowned on, like
you'd sit on the stone and you'd stand on the
stone or your chair would be on the stone and
not quite sure. And then when you know, the unification
(04:34):
of the crowns happened, they took it to England and
to Westminster and it's it's sort of for whatever reason
they were like, yeah, we'll do we'll do this as well.
We like this as a as a thing, and so
then all the British monarchs were crowned with it. So
it was stolen by King Edward the First of England,
who is the one in Braveheart.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
The Hammer of the Scots.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yes, he didn't, he didn't like them. It was stolen
by Edward's First and then it was in England up
in until Christmas nineteen fifty, when four Scottish students nicked
it back.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Sorry four Scottish students did.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Four Scottish students stole it from Westminster Abbey on Christmas
Day nineteen fifty.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Oh my god, Yeah that's amazing. Who what do we
know about these guys?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
I think they were just nationalists with a big Christmas
break and they didn't want to study for their exams. Yeah,
so they thought what else can we do with our time?
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Are we going to get our stone back?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah? Basically, I mean I would. I'd be far too
lazy to bother.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
If kings are being it's a big stone, it's going
to be a big stone, a.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Big, chunky kind of flagstone type thing.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
So they like dressed up as you know, like workmen
and stuff, and had a whole like proper oceans eleven style.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
I was pictured on more like a Paddington fast.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
But yeah, just in one rucksack they've got this massive
stone and one poor guy looking like bent over double him.
Oh no, he's just he's just unwell.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
He's just hungover, you know, students. And then and then
I think since then it's been it's been back up here,
and obviously it just got used again in was it April?
When when was the coronation? Yeah, they just got used
again for the for the coronation, so.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
They had to transport the stone back down they did, Ye,
had to.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Be shunted back down and then shunted back up again.
So apparently it's very important. But yeah, there's not really
any information on why. I guess it's just very old
and people like things that are very old, and.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Hey, we love a good stone, stonehenge. There's all sorts
of stone around here. Yeap of stones, the stones over
the years, rolling stones, the.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Rolling stones, lots of stones.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Stone raises. What's your favorite story from the castle?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I like that they briefly had an elephant as a mascot.
In eighteen thirty six, the seventy eighth Highlanders. They were
in Sri Lanka, and they brought this elephant back. I
don't know how they brought the elephant back.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
It was four students on Christmas Day getting drunk and
they took an.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I don't know what a mascot elephant does, but it
lived in the castle.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
How do they make it a mascot, like glue pompons
to its feet and make it do star jumps at
the side of them. I think they just wore.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
I think they just take photos, like pointing at it,
like look at this guy, and yeah, apparently like drinking beer. Yeah,
theyed they fed it beer. I guess you'd have to
drink a lot of beer as an elephant to get drunk, so.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
I imagine so it feels like a thing that you'd
actually send into war rather than mascot, like if you
were going against an army and then suddenly there's pissed
elephant just starting into with this. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Well, it used to suck up the beer with its trunk,
which is a charming, if slightly dubious way to treat
an elephant. So I think they also had a bear
at one point.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Is it a drunken bear as well?
Speaker 2 (07:51):
I don't know if the bear was drunk, but I
mean there is a there's a pet cemetery as well.
In Edinburgh Castle. There's a little dog cemetery for sort
of military dogs that have died, So you can go
and look at all the little headstones and read about
all the little little dead sad dogs.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
I'm imagining you as a child walking around these little
dead dog graveyard amazing day out. Do you remember any
of the names of the dead dogs in this cemetery?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
No, that would be great, but I don't. I imagine
it was stuff like Captain Chops and Sergeant Waggy. I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Sergeant wagg is a great one.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, it's cute, but you know, fun fun military dog names.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Not gravefires Bobby, that's the other one. That's that's the
famous Scottish one.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah. No, he was never in the army. Sadly he
used to hang around the pubble animals drunk.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
One common theme in Edinburgh. Everything's just getting drunk.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
All the animals is getting drunk, all the people getting drunk.
That's fair.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
I've heard tell that you're a fan of a good
ghost story. Ilen't know.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I am, Yes.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Again, much like the Tower of London, Edincastle is full
of ghost stories. Yep, I'd like to hear the one
about the young piper.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
That's a good one. That's that's a classic. So basically
a long time ago. Obviously it's not a specific time
that would ruin it. Whoever was, you know, the people
at Edinburgh Castle, the royals or the military, whoever discovered
that there was a tunnel, a subterranean tunnel underneath the
Royal Mile that went all the way down to Holyrood,
or they thought it did, which is not like, that's
(09:33):
not unbelievable because there are lots of vaults and underground
streets in the old town, so it's actually like not
an impossible story. But they decided the best way to
find out how deep this tunnel went was to send
down a young piper, you know, send the send the
runner kind of thing, send the intern.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
And he was mary down in mine, isn't he?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah? In some stories he's a drummer, but you know
he's got he's got a loud instrument that you can
hear above. And the idea is a saxophone.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Follow that jazz.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
The sound of sketchazz has stopped, yeah, and so they
want to you could follow the sound and just see
how deep it went. And then so they're following the sound.
I can hear the pipes or the drums or whatever
instrument is, and they eventually it fades away and it
stops and they can't find him, and he never comes back,
and he disappears, and you're supposed to be able to
hear occasionally the ghostly sound of the pipes under the streets,
(10:29):
which is spooky but very unlikely.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
There he is. There, he is, that tiny dead child
is doing a scat number. Again.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I don't think you could. I don't think you could
hear him because because as you know, if you've been
on the Royal while, it is full of bagpipers, constantly bagpiping.
So I have no idea how you're meant to be
able to hear this ghost because it's very noisy on there.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Let's not dwell too long and the truth of the
whole thing, let's just go. Yeah, absolutely, although I will
say that's my hometown in Richmond, North Yorkshire has a
similar story about a little drummer boy who went send
down a tunnel.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
I just think back in the day it was very
lazy trying to think of ideas like how do we
solve this thing, I'll just stick a child down it
and see what happens. That can't be the first.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
No child label laws, and I think a lot of
the time, I mean they used to. This is another
Edinburgh town story that I'm sure has happens in the
rest of the UK as well. But Amerkings Close, which
is sort of like a it's a tourist attraction now,
but it used to be this underground city. There was
the bones of children found shoved up the fireplace because
children would go and clean the chimneys and get stuck
(11:42):
and then they just leave them there. So it's not
unimaginable that they would send a child with a drum
or pipes down a tunnel just to see some strings.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
The amount of orchestras that are no longer able to
operate because the lack of would wind section because where
are they. They're all stuck down some bloody crevice. As
a fan of a dinner party, I can't not get
you to tell me the story of the Black Dinner.
(12:14):
This sounds very Game with.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Thrones, So a lot of Game of Thrones is actually
weirdly based on Scottish history, but in particular, this is
this is the Black Dinner, which took place in fourteen forty,
which was, oh god, which James would this have been
on one of the James second who was ten, so
a picture that very ruthless, and he invited the Black
Douglasses over us. There was two, There was two clowns
(12:38):
of Douglasses. There was the Black Douglasses and the Red Douglases,
because you know, Scotland had a clown system and everyone
was vying for power. So even though the king was
the king, there was still quite a lot of other
people with power and sort of trying to get, you know,
get as high up as they could, and the Black
Douglasses were quite don't I don't know what the equivalent
today would be, but maybe like the family from succession,
sort of ruthless and kind of out for themselves, and
(13:03):
they come over for dinner, very nice, and then the
king or you know, his servants presents them with a
bull's head, a severed bull's head, which apparently I don't
know this, I've never had this happen to me, but
apparently that means you're going to die.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
And Jack and did the Blacks know that that was
a sign of death or did they at the time
and go, oh, this is a nice gift.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I don't know, because people used to eat Ball's head,
so maybe I don't know if they would have been like,
oh is this a is this a course?
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (13:35):
I think maybe yeah, I think maybe it was sort
of shorthand a bit like I guess, a bit like
the head and the horse's head and the bed. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Animal heads kind of are not a good sign. And
they were killed there and then, which is pretty scary
because it sort of sent a message to the nobles that,
you know, it doesn't matter how important or powerful you are.
If the king doesn't like you, that's it, So you
(13:57):
better be careful. Even though he's ten, well he's.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
More of a little Geoffrey character from Yes.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Very Geoffrey, Very Jeoffrey. And also, you know, ten ten
year olds they don't necessarily have a lot of emotional control,
so he might have regretted it immediately.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
I don't know, But would you even properly understood what
was going on although he'd been advised to do it,
and he's given this this this head over then everyone
gets murdered in front of him, and he's like, oh
my god. I didn't realize really, I thought that was
like a joke.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
This is horrible, is putting off.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
A lot could imaginated to stay and nowson Timau what
does that mean?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
What? What does represent? Indigestion?
Speaker 1 (14:43):
What we're learning about Scotland so far is that sending
children underground means they're going to die. Being a military
dog means you're going to die. A bull's head on
your dinner table means you're going to die. And timasu
means you're gonna get indigestion. So what did Glenn's represent
spoiler alert indigestion.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
So glen Coe, it's a big valley. Basically, it's what's
a Glenn That's what Glenn is and the McDonald's were
the clan that lived there. And this is during the uprisings,
the Jacobite uprisings. There's a lot of you know, everyone's
sort of fighting with each other. Everyone's taken sides and
the Campbell's, which were a rival clan, were hired by
the British government. I think it's William and Mary at
(15:30):
the time to kill the McDonald's for you know, betraying
the crown or whatever, not being politically aligned with them.
To compare it to another story, it's very Trojan horsesh
because they came Campbell's came over, they said, hey, can
we can we stay here for a bit? You know,
it's we're in the middle of nowhere, we need someone
stay in. The McDonald said, of course you can, Yeah,
(15:51):
come in, have some food, you know, his us spare rooms.
And then in the night, whenever one are gone to sleep,
the Campbell's massacred the McDonald's. So it's very I guess
what you call it, not cricket. And to this day
I don't think I've been in the presence of a
mcdonaldna Campbell at the same time. But to this day
they still they still don't get on. So uh so, Yeah,
(16:13):
scott Schistra is littered with horrible dinner parties where people
end up stabbing each other and inspiring George R. R. Martin.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
The next castle on your list is Hermitage Castle Hermitage, yet, yeah,
which is known as the guard House, the bloodiest valley
in Britain, very violent history and unpleasant reputation. So I
can see why you like it. It sounds delightful already, Eleena.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah, it's called it's called the bloodiest valley in Britain
because it was on it's in the Borders, and that
was obviously because it was a border that was a
very contentious place where lots of battles and rivalries and wars,
and also the border reavers, which were these kind of
basically cattle thieves used to sort of go in and
out of England stealing cattle and raiding things.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
And there have been some pretty spectacular deaths in this.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Place, right, Yeah, it's linked to a few people who
have had some horrible deaths.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Horrible deaths.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Well, it's so William Desulis, so I think, was sort
of like a Norman lord based on his name, was
involved in a plot against Robert the Bruce. And also
they say witchcraft, but I think people like to throw
witchcraft in just as an.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Extra scribble that on at the end. Witchcraft probably.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
But the fun thing about William is that he had
a familiar, which is for people who don't know, a
sort of I guess like a pet or a mascot
for witches.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
And it was.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Well, it was its own thing. It was a it
was a red cap, which is a Borders creature, and
it's like a little goblin it's a little goblin and
they wear little red caps. It sounds quite cute.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Actually, like Trump supporters.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Make the borders great again. No, it's it's somehow, it's
worse than that. It's actually the cap is red because
it's covered in blood from bloody battlefields and various other
horrible things. According to legend, William de Soulis had a
red cap called Robin red Cap, which again sounds quite adorable.
(18:25):
But yeah, what he was accused of was using and
again this is very like classic sort of tactic to
bring down your enemies. He was apparently using the blood
of local children in demonic rituals with this, with this
red cap, yeah, which is again it's quite like Gilderray,
who is this sort of one of Joan of ARC's
contemporaries in France, who was similarly accused of that kind
(18:47):
of thing. But yeah, so him and this little demon
were in Hermitage Castle with the blood of children, making
spells and trying to overthrow the king, and people didn't
like that apparently for some reason.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
And pair it myself.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Well, you know people will wrap the children nowadays, don't they.
Oh yeah, yeah, sure, a little bit of ritual sacrifice
is good for you.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
I think you couldn't even get a kid near a
burning body nowadays, and.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Health soft awful. But they went to the people, went
to the king and they said, please, can you stop
this guy? And the king basically went, yeah, do what
you want, what you can. You can boil him in
lead if for all I care. And they took that
very literally, and they did. They boiled him in lead.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
So you're saying that, actually that was just like an
offhand remarked the king made it. Yeah, just do what
you have to do.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
And according to the stories, yes, he just went he said,
he said, boil him if you must, but let me
hear no more of him, and they went okay. And
I suppose I suppose there was lead in the building.
And I guess it melts quite quickly.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Sure, I mean, obviously not quite as fast as water. No,
no another option.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
But it's not as good as story, I suppose, so
it's not. And now he's unsurprisingly haunts Hermitage Castle, wandering
the halls, all covered in hot lead and annoyed heavy
footsteps or lead legs, lead legs. You can also hear
the ghostly sobs of the children. He tortured. So so yeah,
(20:30):
pretty grim. I didn't hear any of that when I.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Was there, but no, sure if you were. If you
were boiled in lead, your body dissolve.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Like are you asking me?
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yes? As the lead expert on lead currently on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
I'm gonna say yes, why not. There's actually another sort
of spooky death linked to Hermitage Castle, but it didn't
happen in Hermitage Castle. One of the owners was James Bothwall,
who were was Mary, Queen of Scott's third husband and
all her husbands were terrible, but he was the worst one,
which is saying a lot for her husband. But he
(21:10):
sort of was involved in various different plots to murder horrible.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
You know, he was.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
He also had a claim to the throne apart from
being married to the Queen, and it's just a nasty guy.
Unfortunately for him, he upset the rulers of Denmark I
think it was, and he ended up chained to a
pillar in a dungeon in Denmark.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Mad and raving people pay a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
But yeah, I know, so almost could have could have
monetized that, but so he didn't die there. But I
think there's a kind of association that the owners of
this castle seemed to be cursed for horrible deaths, although
they also seem to be nasty people. So you know
what you say, Yeah, basically.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I've got some quick fire questions too. Yep, quickly fire
at you, as is the nature of quick fire. So
aside from the two castles you talked about today, where
is your favorite castle or stately home?
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yester Castle as in yesterday and that is now just
a ruin in in. I think it's an e Slothian.
But this one also had a wizard. Scottish castles just
seemed to come with wizards called Sir Hugo de Gifford,
who again must have been like a Norman noble, and
he was also reputed to be a necromancer and a warlock.
(22:39):
And he appears in the history books as a as
a sort of legendary local figure who used to sit
in his dungeons of Yester Castle doing witchcraft.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
And because there's also like the Edinburgh necremancy, there's also
lots of the grave robbers as well. It's a great
you have got a obsession with digging up the past.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yeah, literally, Yeah, Scottish.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
People won't just get over it if Christ it happened
over can we move on, please, Scotland, I bring it
up again. I'm so sorry that's I could possibly imagine that.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
No, it's really it's really interesting to hear. If you've
ever been to Gray Friars Kirkyard, which you might have done,
because it's in the middle of town, it has a
reputation because it's got so many people buried in it
that when it rains, sometimes when the soil gets muddy,
sometimes bones will just sort of rise to the top
(23:39):
because it's full of so many bones. Yeah, that actually happened,
that's true. And my sister found a jaw bone once,
what found a human jaw but she gave it in
she hasn't kept it.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
That's amazing, I don't yeh that's that's Oh yeah, that's
the one that's sort of just up from Great Fires.
Bobby has all the Harry names on.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
That's right. Unfortunately, that's what it's known for now. But
it's got a much more interesting history than Harry.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Was more interesting.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, corpses everywhere. I think it's because we have had
such a tumultuous history. I think you know, you see
that places where there's been a lot of battles and
stuff like that. You get lots of folklore that's very
grim and.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Amazing, nice romantic walk around a graveyard and suddenly some
somebody's great great granddad's pelvis just wriggles up through.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
The ground on skeleton like an old Disney cartoon.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
If you could go to any place at any time
in history, when would it be? Ah?
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Well, I want to say now, because that's even though
it seems terrible, it's still the best time to be alive.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Well, I've got some great news for you. Are here,
So dreams do come and manifested that it's your time travel.
You do what you want with it.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
If you could meet any character from history, who would
it be?
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I think Thomas Paine, I'm a big fan of who
was a sort of revolutionary philosopher and I like a
lot of his ideas. He was very sort of quite
modern in a lot of his ideas.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
But what were the main ideas?
Speaker 2 (25:20):
No religion, no monarchy, everyone gets a vote, that kind
of thing.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
So yeah, before John Lennon wrote Imagine.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, it's the John Lennon of his day. But I
think he was nicer to his wife. But he he
also had a really interesting life because he lived through
he was English, but he lived through the French Revolution
and the American Revolution. He sort of because those were
happening and he was interested in revolution, he sort of
went to visit both of those and became embroiled in
them and is kind of one of the founding fathers
of America. Now. So he nearly got executed once during
(25:51):
the French Revolution, but he managed to get out of
it because the executioner forgot So basically Thomas Paine had
the flu. He was allowed to keep his prison door
open to some fresh air in. Then the guard goes
round and sort of marks across for the people getting
executed the next day, because this is the middle of
the terror and people are constantly being killed, and he
(26:11):
marks it on the inside of the door because the
door's open. So Thomas Paine just gets up and closes
the door, and then when they come around the next
day to see who needs to get executed, they miss
amusing and that's how he gets out of here.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
So we did say we get some Scottich insults in yes,
do you have any good Scotch insults?
Speaker 2 (26:32):
We had to swear right.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Oh yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
This might this might sound like not that impressive, by
honestly think the best one is just calling someone a fanny.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Fanny, yeah, because it just is in the accident.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
It works, I think so. But also like for me
to call someone a fanny is to say that they're
a dickhead, but at the same time they're a sort
of laughable.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Let's really break this down. There's more sort of malicious
intent with a dickhead, whereas a fanny is just like,
oh you're pathetic, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, And I like that. I think I don't know,
I just think it works. It works on a lot
of levels. This is not the most it's not the
most interesting of insults, but I guarantee it will make
people angrier than some of the other Why do.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
I feel like it's a very male directed insult? You
directed as as a man? Do you think it works
for a woman as well?
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Maybe call anyone a finally, but yeah, like a man
who needs to be taken down a peg or two
and made to feel stupid.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah, so that's how I feel it's it's it's best
utilized towards an alpha male to really rob him with
his balls off.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
I don't know if I should do the accident anymore,
but its go away and boil your head. How would
you say A one bil your head?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
What and bile your heat?
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Which means go away and boil your head?
Speaker 2 (27:59):
It does, yeah, and it sort of means fuck off basically,
but in a more yeah, I guess, in a more
visceral way.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I'm just very agod with it, with all the boiling
stuff that we've talked about.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, it's ideal, I mean, yeah, I guess. I guess
people took that literally sometimes.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Eleanor, thank you so much for coming on. It's been
an absolute pleasure talking to you. I'm sure the next
time I see you will be backstage in a green
room somewhere. But thank you, thank you for having me.
There was a pause there, Eleanor, like you weren't too sure.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I wasn't.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Yeah, to be honest that yeah, well it was lovely
and then a bit awkward at it at the end,
but hey, fine.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
You can take out, you can edit that.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
I'll keep it in. Keep the struggle. The struggles are real,
it certainly is. Until next time, boil him. If you
must put an X on the inside of your Door
and the mind Joy Manners. I don't know why I'm
trying to do a Scottish accent Mind your Manners. Thanks
for listening to Bad Manners. If you like the pod,
please share it with your friends on the iHeartRadio app,
(29:01):
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Leave
a review and make sure you spill the tea on
any of your favorite Bad Manners that we could feature
in future episodes. This podcast was produced by Atamei Studios
for iHeartRadio. It was hosted by me Tom Horton. It
was produced by William Lensky, Rebecca Rappaport, and Chris Ataway.
(29:23):
It was executive produced by Face Steur and Zad Rogers.
Our production manager is Caitlin Paramore and our production coordinator
is Bellasolini.
Scotland, home of the Brave Hearts, but better yet, and
certainly better than that joke. It's home to a lot
of castles, so many we couldn't invade all of them
in one episode, which is why this is part two
of our Scottish Castle's Special. And if you were here
for our Burns Night episode you'll already be familiar with
(00:25):
kill Drummy Castle and Sterling Castle. On this episode, we're
heading further south to Edinburgh Castle and further still to
the borders, so watch out for reavers. Thanks to my guest,
this episode also provides me with a great opportunity to
brush up on my Scottish insults, So buckle up. Yeah
(00:46):
wee fuck bumpers, We're off to Edinburgh. Join me on
the podcast. Today we have Ela Morton, who's a fellow
stand up comedian and also a self confessed history nerd
and makes TikTok videos as Craig the unenthused Piastic tour guys.
Eleanor is also up in Scotland and I'm up in England,
so the rivalry is already set. Hi, Eleanor, thank you
(01:07):
for joining us. How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I'm okay, thank you? How are you?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I'm very well, thank you go to talk castles with
you because you are you're you're a fan of castles.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I am. I'm very excited to talk to someone who's
lived in a castle.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
And a past tense sad. Sorry, we've already heard about
Sterling Castle with people being thrown out windows and people
dressed as chickens jumping off cliffs and kill Drummery with
(01:40):
Blacksmith being covered in molten gold. But today we are
going to move away from those two castles and we're
going to focus on firstly, Edinburgh Castle. I'm assuming this
one's your favorite. Is this the top castle?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah, well it's not. It's not the most dramatic or
the most romantic, but it has got the most history,
in the most stories. I guess it's the Tower of
London of Scotland.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
So yeah, definitely, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, it's where everything happened, and it's where all the
important things happened and therefore all kind of gruesome stuff
as well. And I think what I like about it
is that it sort of has continued to have a
life after the unification of the crowns, like it was
no longer the royal home, but then it became barracks
at a prison, and all sorts of different things happened.
So yeah, there's a lot of history.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
The unification of the crowns, by the way, happened in
sixteen oh three after the death of Queen Elizabeth I.
Lizzie had died unmarried and childless, so the English crown
passed to her next available heir, her cousin James, the
sixth King of Scotland. England and Scotland now shared the
same monarch, and the Scottish and the English lived happily
(02:50):
ever after. If by happily ever after you mean they
continue to hate each other for years to come. An
has been as I look at my notes, the most
besieged car mm hmm have three record attempts to take it.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah, definitely a lot of attempts. The thing about Edinburgh
Castle is, obviously, if you've been there, you know that
it's at the top of the Royal Mile, which is
like and it's on this rock, this volcano, extinct volcano,
I should say, And the reason it was besieged obviously
is because it's in this it's you know, it's only
about seventy miles north of an English border, so it's
in a perfect position to be constantly attacked. And then
(03:26):
the reason that the Royal Mile and all the old
town is sort of all costed around the castle is
basically because of this constant fear of invasion. So that's
why the old town is sort of all this rickety
tall old buildings will kind of smush together, is because
Edinburgh is constantly being attacked for years and years.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Let's delve deeper into the let's do it juicy histories
of the castle. Let's start with the Stone of Destiny.
So tell us about this.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
The Stone Destiny is a stone massively surprising and it's
from I think it's from Scone originally, which is sort
of up in Perthshire. And basically this it was traditionally
what the old Scottish kings would get crowned on, like
you'd sit on the stone and you'd stand on the
stone or your chair would be on the stone and
not quite sure. And then when you know, the unification
(04:34):
of the crowns happened, they took it to England and
to Westminster and it's it's sort of for whatever reason
they were like, yeah, we'll do we'll do this as well.
We like this as a as a thing, and so
then all the British monarchs were crowned with it. So
it was stolen by King Edward the First of England,
who is the one in Braveheart.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
The Hammer of the Scots.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yes, he didn't, he didn't like them. It was stolen
by Edward's First and then it was in England up
in until Christmas nineteen fifty, when four Scottish students nicked
it back.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Sorry four Scottish students did.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Four Scottish students stole it from Westminster Abbey on Christmas
Day nineteen fifty.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Oh my god, Yeah that's amazing. Who what do we
know about these guys?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
I think they were just nationalists with a big Christmas
break and they didn't want to study for their exams. Yeah,
so they thought what else can we do with our time?
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Are we going to get our stone back?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah? Basically, I mean I would. I'd be far too
lazy to bother.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
If kings are being it's a big stone, it's going
to be a big stone, a.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Big, chunky kind of flagstone type thing.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
So they like dressed up as you know, like workmen
and stuff, and had a whole like proper oceans eleven style.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
I was pictured on more like a Paddington fast.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
But yeah, just in one rucksack they've got this massive
stone and one poor guy looking like bent over double him.
Oh no, he's just he's just unwell.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
He's just hungover, you know, students. And then and then
I think since then it's been it's been back up here,
and obviously it just got used again in was it April?
When when was the coronation? Yeah, they just got used
again for the for the coronation, so.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
They had to transport the stone back down they did, Ye,
had to.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Be shunted back down and then shunted back up again.
So apparently it's very important. But yeah, there's not really
any information on why. I guess it's just very old
and people like things that are very old, and.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Hey, we love a good stone, stonehenge. There's all sorts
of stone around here. Yeap of stones, the stones over
the years, rolling stones, the.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Rolling stones, lots of stones.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Stone raises. What's your favorite story from the castle?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I like that they briefly had an elephant as a mascot.
In eighteen thirty six, the seventy eighth Highlanders. They were
in Sri Lanka, and they brought this elephant back. I
don't know how they brought the elephant back.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
It was four students on Christmas Day getting drunk and
they took an.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I don't know what a mascot elephant does, but it
lived in the castle.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
How do they make it a mascot, like glue pompons
to its feet and make it do star jumps at
the side of them. I think they just wore.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
I think they just take photos, like pointing at it,
like look at this guy, and yeah, apparently like drinking beer. Yeah,
theyed they fed it beer. I guess you'd have to
drink a lot of beer as an elephant to get drunk, so.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
I imagine so it feels like a thing that you'd
actually send into war rather than mascot, like if you
were going against an army and then suddenly there's pissed
elephant just starting into with this. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Well, it used to suck up the beer with its trunk,
which is a charming, if slightly dubious way to treat
an elephant. So I think they also had a bear
at one point.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Is it a drunken bear as well?
Speaker 2 (07:51):
I don't know if the bear was drunk, but I
mean there is a there's a pet cemetery as well.
In Edinburgh Castle. There's a little dog cemetery for sort
of military dogs that have died, So you can go
and look at all the little headstones and read about
all the little little dead sad dogs.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
I'm imagining you as a child walking around these little
dead dog graveyard amazing day out. Do you remember any
of the names of the dead dogs in this cemetery?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
No, that would be great, but I don't. I imagine
it was stuff like Captain Chops and Sergeant Waggy. I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Sergeant wagg is a great one.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, it's cute, but you know, fun fun military dog names.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Not gravefires Bobby, that's the other one. That's that's the
famous Scottish one.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah. No, he was never in the army. Sadly he
used to hang around the pubble animals drunk.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
One common theme in Edinburgh. Everything's just getting drunk.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
All the animals is getting drunk, all the people getting drunk.
That's fair.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
I've heard tell that you're a fan of a good
ghost story. Ilen't know.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I am, Yes.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Again, much like the Tower of London, Edincastle is full
of ghost stories. Yep, I'd like to hear the one
about the young piper.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
That's a good one. That's that's a classic. So basically
a long time ago. Obviously it's not a specific time
that would ruin it. Whoever was, you know, the people
at Edinburgh Castle, the royals or the military, whoever discovered
that there was a tunnel, a subterranean tunnel underneath the
Royal Mile that went all the way down to Holyrood,
or they thought it did, which is not like, that's
(09:33):
not unbelievable because there are lots of vaults and underground
streets in the old town, so it's actually like not
an impossible story. But they decided the best way to
find out how deep this tunnel went was to send
down a young piper, you know, send the send the
runner kind of thing, send the intern.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
And he was mary down in mine, isn't he?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah? In some stories he's a drummer, but you know
he's got he's got a loud instrument that you can
hear above. And the idea is a saxophone.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Follow that jazz.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
The sound of sketchazz has stopped, yeah, and so they
want to you could follow the sound and just see
how deep it went. And then so they're following the sound.
I can hear the pipes or the drums or whatever
instrument is, and they eventually it fades away and it
stops and they can't find him, and he never comes back,
and he disappears, and you're supposed to be able to
hear occasionally the ghostly sound of the pipes under the streets,
(10:29):
which is spooky but very unlikely.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
There he is. There, he is, that tiny dead child
is doing a scat number. Again.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I don't think you could. I don't think you could
hear him because because as you know, if you've been
on the Royal while, it is full of bagpipers, constantly bagpiping.
So I have no idea how you're meant to be
able to hear this ghost because it's very noisy on there.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Let's not dwell too long and the truth of the
whole thing, let's just go. Yeah, absolutely, although I will
say that's my hometown in Richmond, North Yorkshire has a
similar story about a little drummer boy who went send
down a tunnel.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
I just think back in the day it was very
lazy trying to think of ideas like how do we
solve this thing, I'll just stick a child down it
and see what happens. That can't be the first.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
No child label laws, and I think a lot of
the time, I mean they used to. This is another
Edinburgh town story that I'm sure has happens in the
rest of the UK as well. But Amerkings Close, which
is sort of like a it's a tourist attraction now,
but it used to be this underground city. There was
the bones of children found shoved up the fireplace because
children would go and clean the chimneys and get stuck
(11:42):
and then they just leave them there. So it's not
unimaginable that they would send a child with a drum
or pipes down a tunnel just to see some strings.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
The amount of orchestras that are no longer able to
operate because the lack of would wind section because where
are they. They're all stuck down some bloody crevice. As
a fan of a dinner party, I can't not get
you to tell me the story of the Black Dinner.
(12:14):
This sounds very Game with.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Thrones, So a lot of Game of Thrones is actually
weirdly based on Scottish history, but in particular, this is
this is the Black Dinner, which took place in fourteen forty,
which was, oh god, which James would this have been
on one of the James second who was ten, so
a picture that very ruthless, and he invited the Black
Douglasses over us. There was two, There was two clowns
(12:38):
of Douglasses. There was the Black Douglasses and the Red Douglases,
because you know, Scotland had a clown system and everyone
was vying for power. So even though the king was
the king, there was still quite a lot of other
people with power and sort of trying to get, you know,
get as high up as they could, and the Black
Douglasses were quite don't I don't know what the equivalent
today would be, but maybe like the family from succession,
sort of ruthless and kind of out for themselves, and
(13:03):
they come over for dinner, very nice, and then the
king or you know, his servants presents them with a
bull's head, a severed bull's head, which apparently I don't
know this, I've never had this happen to me, but
apparently that means you're going to die.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
And Jack and did the Blacks know that that was
a sign of death or did they at the time
and go, oh, this is a nice gift.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I don't know, because people used to eat Ball's head,
so maybe I don't know if they would have been like,
oh is this a is this a course?
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (13:35):
I think maybe yeah, I think maybe it was sort
of shorthand a bit like I guess, a bit like
the head and the horse's head and the bed. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Animal heads kind of are not a good sign. And
they were killed there and then, which is pretty scary
because it sort of sent a message to the nobles that,
you know, it doesn't matter how important or powerful you are.
If the king doesn't like you, that's it, So you
(13:57):
better be careful. Even though he's ten, well he's.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
More of a little Geoffrey character from Yes.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Very Geoffrey, Very Jeoffrey. And also, you know, ten ten
year olds they don't necessarily have a lot of emotional control,
so he might have regretted it immediately.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
I don't know, But would you even properly understood what
was going on although he'd been advised to do it,
and he's given this this this head over then everyone
gets murdered in front of him, and he's like, oh
my god. I didn't realize really, I thought that was
like a joke.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
This is horrible, is putting off.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
A lot could imaginated to stay and nowson Timau what
does that mean?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
What? What does represent? Indigestion?
Speaker 1 (14:43):
What we're learning about Scotland so far is that sending
children underground means they're going to die. Being a military
dog means you're going to die. A bull's head on
your dinner table means you're going to die. And timasu
means you're gonna get indigestion. So what did Glenn's represent
spoiler alert indigestion.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
So glen Coe, it's a big valley. Basically, it's what's
a Glenn That's what Glenn is and the McDonald's were
the clan that lived there. And this is during the uprisings,
the Jacobite uprisings. There's a lot of you know, everyone's
sort of fighting with each other. Everyone's taken sides and
the Campbell's, which were a rival clan, were hired by
the British government. I think it's William and Mary at
(15:30):
the time to kill the McDonald's for you know, betraying
the crown or whatever, not being politically aligned with them.
To compare it to another story, it's very Trojan horsesh
because they came Campbell's came over, they said, hey, can
we can we stay here for a bit? You know,
it's we're in the middle of nowhere, we need someone
stay in. The McDonald said, of course you can, Yeah,
(15:51):
come in, have some food, you know, his us spare rooms.
And then in the night, whenever one are gone to sleep,
the Campbell's massacred the McDonald's. So it's very I guess
what you call it, not cricket. And to this day
I don't think I've been in the presence of a
mcdonaldna Campbell at the same time. But to this day
they still they still don't get on. So uh so, Yeah,
(16:13):
scott Schistra is littered with horrible dinner parties where people
end up stabbing each other and inspiring George R. R. Martin.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
The next castle on your list is Hermitage Castle Hermitage, yet, yeah,
which is known as the guard House, the bloodiest valley
in Britain, very violent history and unpleasant reputation. So I
can see why you like it. It sounds delightful already, Eleena.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah, it's called it's called the bloodiest valley in Britain
because it was on it's in the Borders, and that
was obviously because it was a border that was a
very contentious place where lots of battles and rivalries and wars,
and also the border reavers, which were these kind of
basically cattle thieves used to sort of go in and
out of England stealing cattle and raiding things.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
And there have been some pretty spectacular deaths in this.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Place, right, Yeah, it's linked to a few people who
have had some horrible deaths.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Horrible deaths.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Well, it's so William Desulis, so I think, was sort
of like a Norman lord based on his name, was
involved in a plot against Robert the Bruce. And also
they say witchcraft, but I think people like to throw
witchcraft in just as an.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Extra scribble that on at the end. Witchcraft probably.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
But the fun thing about William is that he had
a familiar, which is for people who don't know, a
sort of I guess like a pet or a mascot
for witches.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
And it was.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Well, it was its own thing. It was a it
was a red cap, which is a Borders creature, and
it's like a little goblin it's a little goblin and
they wear little red caps. It sounds quite cute.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Actually, like Trump supporters.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Make the borders great again. No, it's it's somehow, it's
worse than that. It's actually the cap is red because
it's covered in blood from bloody battlefields and various other
horrible things. According to legend, William de Soulis had a
red cap called Robin red Cap, which again sounds quite adorable.
(18:25):
But yeah, what he was accused of was using and
again this is very like classic sort of tactic to
bring down your enemies. He was apparently using the blood
of local children in demonic rituals with this, with this
red cap, yeah, which is again it's quite like Gilderray,
who is this sort of one of Joan of ARC's
contemporaries in France, who was similarly accused of that kind
(18:47):
of thing. But yeah, so him and this little demon
were in Hermitage Castle with the blood of children, making
spells and trying to overthrow the king, and people didn't
like that apparently for some reason.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
And pair it myself.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Well, you know people will wrap the children nowadays, don't they.
Oh yeah, yeah, sure, a little bit of ritual sacrifice
is good for you.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
I think you couldn't even get a kid near a
burning body nowadays, and.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Health soft awful. But they went to the people, went
to the king and they said, please, can you stop
this guy? And the king basically went, yeah, do what
you want, what you can. You can boil him in
lead if for all I care. And they took that
very literally, and they did. They boiled him in lead.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
So you're saying that, actually that was just like an
offhand remarked the king made it. Yeah, just do what
you have to do.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
And according to the stories, yes, he just went he said,
he said, boil him if you must, but let me
hear no more of him, and they went okay. And
I suppose I suppose there was lead in the building.
And I guess it melts quite quickly.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Sure, I mean, obviously not quite as fast as water. No,
no another option.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
But it's not as good as story, I suppose, so
it's not. And now he's unsurprisingly haunts Hermitage Castle, wandering
the halls, all covered in hot lead and annoyed heavy
footsteps or lead legs, lead legs. You can also hear
the ghostly sobs of the children. He tortured. So so yeah,
(20:30):
pretty grim. I didn't hear any of that when I.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Was there, but no, sure if you were. If you
were boiled in lead, your body dissolve.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Like are you asking me?
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yes? As the lead expert on lead currently on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
I'm gonna say yes, why not. There's actually another sort
of spooky death linked to Hermitage Castle, but it didn't
happen in Hermitage Castle. One of the owners was James Bothwall,
who were was Mary, Queen of Scott's third husband and
all her husbands were terrible, but he was the worst one,
which is saying a lot for her husband. But he
(21:10):
sort of was involved in various different plots to murder horrible.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
You know, he was.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
He also had a claim to the throne apart from
being married to the Queen, and it's just a nasty guy.
Unfortunately for him, he upset the rulers of Denmark I
think it was, and he ended up chained to a
pillar in a dungeon in Denmark.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Mad and raving people pay a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
But yeah, I know, so almost could have could have
monetized that, but so he didn't die there. But I
think there's a kind of association that the owners of
this castle seemed to be cursed for horrible deaths, although
they also seem to be nasty people. So you know
what you say, Yeah, basically.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I've got some quick fire questions too. Yep, quickly fire
at you, as is the nature of quick fire. So
aside from the two castles you talked about today, where
is your favorite castle or stately home?
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yester Castle as in yesterday and that is now just
a ruin in in. I think it's an e Slothian.
But this one also had a wizard. Scottish castles just
seemed to come with wizards called Sir Hugo de Gifford,
who again must have been like a Norman noble, and
he was also reputed to be a necromancer and a warlock.
(22:39):
And he appears in the history books as a as
a sort of legendary local figure who used to sit
in his dungeons of Yester Castle doing witchcraft.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
And because there's also like the Edinburgh necremancy, there's also
lots of the grave robbers as well. It's a great
you have got a obsession with digging up the past.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yeah, literally, Yeah, Scottish.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
People won't just get over it if Christ it happened
over can we move on, please, Scotland, I bring it
up again. I'm so sorry that's I could possibly imagine that.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
No, it's really it's really interesting to hear. If you've
ever been to Gray Friars Kirkyard, which you might have done,
because it's in the middle of town, it has a
reputation because it's got so many people buried in it
that when it rains, sometimes when the soil gets muddy,
sometimes bones will just sort of rise to the top
(23:39):
because it's full of so many bones. Yeah, that actually happened,
that's true. And my sister found a jaw bone once,
what found a human jaw but she gave it in
she hasn't kept it.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
That's amazing, I don't yeh that's that's Oh yeah, that's
the one that's sort of just up from Great Fires.
Bobby has all the Harry names on.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
That's right. Unfortunately, that's what it's known for now. But
it's got a much more interesting history than Harry.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Was more interesting.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, corpses everywhere. I think it's because we have had
such a tumultuous history. I think you know, you see
that places where there's been a lot of battles and
stuff like that. You get lots of folklore that's very
grim and.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Amazing, nice romantic walk around a graveyard and suddenly some
somebody's great great granddad's pelvis just wriggles up through.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
The ground on skeleton like an old Disney cartoon.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
If you could go to any place at any time
in history, when would it be? Ah?
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Well, I want to say now, because that's even though
it seems terrible, it's still the best time to be alive.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Well, I've got some great news for you. Are here,
So dreams do come and manifested that it's your time travel.
You do what you want with it.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
If you could meet any character from history, who would
it be?
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I think Thomas Paine, I'm a big fan of who
was a sort of revolutionary philosopher and I like a
lot of his ideas. He was very sort of quite
modern in a lot of his ideas.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
But what were the main ideas?
Speaker 2 (25:20):
No religion, no monarchy, everyone gets a vote, that kind
of thing.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
So yeah, before John Lennon wrote Imagine.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, it's the John Lennon of his day. But I
think he was nicer to his wife. But he he
also had a really interesting life because he lived through
he was English, but he lived through the French Revolution
and the American Revolution. He sort of because those were
happening and he was interested in revolution, he sort of
went to visit both of those and became embroiled in
them and is kind of one of the founding fathers
of America. Now. So he nearly got executed once during
(25:51):
the French Revolution, but he managed to get out of
it because the executioner forgot So basically Thomas Paine had
the flu. He was allowed to keep his prison door
open to some fresh air in. Then the guard goes
round and sort of marks across for the people getting
executed the next day, because this is the middle of
the terror and people are constantly being killed, and he
(26:11):
marks it on the inside of the door because the
door's open. So Thomas Paine just gets up and closes
the door, and then when they come around the next
day to see who needs to get executed, they miss
amusing and that's how he gets out of here.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
So we did say we get some Scottich insults in yes,
do you have any good Scotch insults?
Speaker 2 (26:32):
We had to swear right.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Oh yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
This might this might sound like not that impressive, by
honestly think the best one is just calling someone a fanny.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Fanny, yeah, because it just is in the accident.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
It works, I think so. But also like for me
to call someone a fanny is to say that they're
a dickhead, but at the same time they're a sort
of laughable.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Let's really break this down. There's more sort of malicious
intent with a dickhead, whereas a fanny is just like,
oh you're pathetic, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, And I like that. I think I don't know,
I just think it works. It works on a lot
of levels. This is not the most it's not the
most interesting of insults, but I guarantee it will make
people angrier than some of the other Why do.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
I feel like it's a very male directed insult? You
directed as as a man? Do you think it works
for a woman as well?
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Maybe call anyone a finally, but yeah, like a man
who needs to be taken down a peg or two
and made to feel stupid.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah, so that's how I feel it's it's it's best
utilized towards an alpha male to really rob him with
his balls off.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
I don't know if I should do the accident anymore,
but its go away and boil your head. How would
you say A one bil your head?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
What and bile your heat?
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Which means go away and boil your head?
Speaker 2 (27:59):
It does, yeah, and it sort of means fuck off basically,
but in a more yeah, I guess, in a more
visceral way.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I'm just very agod with it, with all the boiling
stuff that we've talked about.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, it's ideal, I mean, yeah, I guess. I guess
people took that literally sometimes.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Eleanor, thank you so much for coming on. It's been
an absolute pleasure talking to you. I'm sure the next
time I see you will be backstage in a green
room somewhere. But thank you, thank you for having me.
There was a pause there, Eleanor, like you weren't too sure.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I wasn't.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Yeah, to be honest that yeah, well it was lovely
and then a bit awkward at it at the end,
but hey, fine.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
You can take out, you can edit that.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
I'll keep it in. Keep the struggle. The struggles are real,
it certainly is. Until next time, boil him. If you
must put an X on the inside of your Door
and the mind Joy Manners. I don't know why I'm
trying to do a Scottish accent Mind your Manners. Thanks
for listening to Bad Manners. If you like the pod,
please share it with your friends on the iHeartRadio app,
(29:01):
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Leave
a review and make sure you spill the tea on
any of your favorite Bad Manners that we could feature
in future episodes. This podcast was produced by Atamei Studios
for iHeartRadio. It was hosted by me Tom Horton. It
was produced by William Lensky, Rebecca Rappaport, and Chris Ataway.
(29:23):
It was executive produced by Face Steur and Zad Rogers.
Our production manager is Caitlin Paramore and our production coordinator
is Bellasolini.
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