April 30, 2025 • 45 mins
In this episode of the Bear Grease podcast, host Clay Newcomb travels across the border to the 33rd annual Ada Oklahoma Mule Sale. Johnny Kelso and son Justin Kelso talk about their family history with mules, history with the sale, and what it means to be "mule folks." Mule buyer and seller Max Bishop describes what he looks for in a good mule as the mule sale moves along. We answer the question of what a mule is and how they compare to a horse. Listen closely for the auction of the High Selling Mule.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You take a leggy mule like that that will let
down and walk in the mirrors of rolling, they'll probably
walked three and a half four miles an hour. Who
covered a lot of ground like that. And that's what
I was saying earlier about me get a more general
diverse five. I mean it. No, those horses are out there.
I mean, don't get me wrong, they're out there. But
I promise you, I promise you we go to the
mountains and go riding that mule. Little step out and walk.
(00:29):
You may keep up with me, but I'm gonna kill
your horse and your back's gonna be hurting time more night.
I mean, it's just a fact.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, we're in Oklahoma at the thirty third annual Ada
Oklahoma Mules Sell to learn about mules, the Kelso family
who runs it, and to get some insight into rural America.
This auction is a rare jewel in today's time, full
of showmanship and tradition and a heck of a place
(00:55):
to pick up a good mule. And I really doubt
that you're gonna want to miss this one. And hey,
if you enjoy episodes like this, please share our podcast
on social media and leave us a review on iTunes.
We truly appreciate all of you listening, and I think
that we're about to learn some stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
It's hard to explain to your horse people. But if
your horse people ever get bit by the bug and
they get them a mule, then they can't explain it
to their buddies either. It's just a mule thing. We've
thought about getting some T shirt. Sometimes you know, it's
just a mule thing.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
My name is Klay Nukem and this is the Bear
Grease Podcast where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search
for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell the
story of Americans who live their lives close to the land.
Presented by f h F Gear, American made, purpose built
(02:03):
hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged
as the place as we explore.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
So the kids around here on Fridays, every Friday, they
ride a Chick fil A. It's a big deal. They
go through the drive through on their mules. They've been
on Oklahoma City News with it. It's been all over Facebook.
It's fun deal. Not time comes around. They're allowing to
go ride to town down the world. On the edge
of town we're on right here in Antion Town, right
here and there they're right downtown doing what kids do,
(02:38):
I mean, having a big town whatever. We didn't know
this was going on. Our kids used out riding all
we know, and I'm We're in the office up to
the front of the river and I see bloot. I said, well,
what's going on across the road? Over blue lights all over?
By the time my phone rings, it's my son.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
Answer. He said, Dad, what's my social Curity number? Said why,
he's with the cops. Needed I said, do what I said,
Are you under arrest?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
This is kind of the way things roll when the
mule sell is in town. This is fifty one year
old Justin Kelso. He's the seventh generation muleman and his
family has been involved in the ad to Oklahoma mules
sale since the first auction in nineteen ninety two. Today
they run the whole thing. But this story is about
his son, Jack Kelso.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Are you under arrest?
Speaker 5 (03:26):
He said?
Speaker 1 (03:27):
He said, hey, mind trouble. They said, no, he's no,
I'm not trouble. I said, are you under arrest or anything?
Speaker 4 (03:32):
No, No, he won't.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I said, your mother will be over in just a minute. Well,
This is on Friday night. They were cross the road
here on Broadway south south of where we're at, and
they'd rolled downtown. But if young lady stuck her head
out of this apartment complex, this y'all helped me throw me.
My man has thrown me out, and he had he
had throwed her all her close out the house there
and there. So they go over there. I don't know
(03:54):
that demand hitter. I'm not accusing him. I have no
idea what he done. So somehow or not, they're gonna help.
They go to her. They go to the front door. Now,
I mean, she's begging for help. So boys being good
boys that maybe little rambus just but good boys.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
The lady needs help. You help. I raise my son.
You take care of people, you know, if you can.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
And so they get this guy from porks and pretty
good scuffle and sues and the boy, my son was
probably fifteen sixteenth the time. The other boy's twenty twenty one.
And they get in a fight with this guy. They
get my son. I think he might have helped a
little bit, but he gets it broke up because his
buddy's pooping on this guy pretty good. And it's getting
(04:33):
almost out of hand. So Jack gets and broke up.
The guy goes back in the house, grabs his knife
and comes back out after that boy and Jack, by
this time he got back on his k meew when
he had alert rope. He just freaks out and ropes
this boy and drags him off by his feet, thumped
him down pretty good. And my wife Candy gets over there,
and these cops are just in stitches laughing. They're saying
(04:54):
this is the gratty saint's ever happened here to a
clumber and said, we've never seen so it turned out
he turned out he wrote the guy and drinking down.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
I mean, I'm not the greatest rope in the world.
My son, he was five.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Years old, sadad. He teached me how rope. This win
not a very good rope. I said, I'd give a
little play rope. That's here rope everything you see. So
the kids play with ropes and s's five years old
and he can usually really well. And he just reached
up jerk this guy. Now it's wondered he didn't hurt him,
Jersey because he wrote him and the loop dropped around
his legs and I mean he took his feet out
from So did.
Speaker 6 (05:23):
The guy get a racetrat?
Speaker 1 (05:24):
I think yeah, as far as I know, I didn't ask.
I'm just glad my son would into a white you know,
That's all I needed.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Was in court dating eight Oklahoma two.
Speaker 6 (05:31):
Welcome to aight Oklahoma.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Yeah boy.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
The eight of Oklahoma mules sell was three days long
and the main event is the mule auction on Saturday,
where they'll sell between one hundred and fifty and two
hundred mules. A sorrel colored mule, a red one is
being loped around the arena exactly.
Speaker 6 (06:00):
Honest.
Speaker 7 (06:00):
I've ever read as far as you want, all day long,
multiple days in a row, and if you do this round.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Three years.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
The owner of the mule has stood up in the
crowd to deliver a heartfelt sales pitch for this honest mule,
and the rider chimes into. The arena is surrounded by
bleachers filled with potential buyers, tire kickers, and onlookers. Everyone
is kind of here to see what the high selling
mule goes for. The mule sold for fifteen thousand dollars
(06:50):
to an online bidder from Idaho. Yeah, this place is
pretty high tech, but that wasn't the high selling mule.
The way this works is that one by one, each
mule that's up for sale is ridden through the arena
while the auctioneer and the owners seeing its praises. The
rider has the crowd's attention for just a few minutes,
(07:11):
and he's got to show the years of work that's
gone into this animal. People in the crowd bid by
raising their hand or yelling to the auctioneer. But the
thing about an auction is that this is a spectator sport.
Will there be a lot of people here that are
just spectators just come to watch.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
Come see the big deal. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
And there's people here come here to vacation. They just
want to see what the mules bring. Yeah, I hate
you here with that mule brought eighty Yeah is there
and I seen it. They talk, you know, coffee shop
talks like going to a ball game. Some ways, a
lot of the spectator and you'll see the tricks and
the shows. I mean in a way, horse and mule
seals are almost entertainers in a way too. Yeah, there
are show offs. I mean because you're showing the mule.
(07:54):
That's the reason the mule and horses are sold. In
my opinion, I've sold stuff all my life. I sold equipment,
sold cattle. Mules and horses are the most fun to
sell because you can do the tricks, you can show
off in you.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
There's some showman, there's some showmanships. So I have been
selling at a live.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Auction, and there's disbandaged that showmanship. The reason my Hilberts
was here ten fifteen years ago. This mule but somebody off.
I wrotehim with the house a little. He rode fine more.
I wrote this mule Barry got I mean he got
to ride well, I mean really was going to show good.
And I think we had at nineteen hundred bed on
this mule, which was more than we thought he'd bring
(08:29):
because we weren't bragging on you know, we didn't bring
on how gentle he was. I just showed him what
he would do. Guaranteed him sound. Didn't guarantee him be
gentle because we knew he butt somebody off. I'm not
gonna guarantee that when I know that. And uh Dad
had his back turned trying to catch bed somewhere. I
stood up my saddle and I fell teen bunch. I
knew he was gonna I didn't think he but I
thought he might kind of try to jump out from
(08:50):
under me or something done unto a thousand times. Just
step off. That's a five foot drop to step off.
He was a turn he could. He knew he could
take advantage of me in that point because I have
no control that.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Morning, I'm trusting you.
Speaker 6 (09:02):
You've lost.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, But I mean I've been doing this kind of
stuff since I was seven eight years old.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
Just jump off.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And when I did, I had both feet and the
seat of my saddle, my spurs I had. I used
to write center high school and college. When I stepped
off my left foot leading, I hung my right spur
and fell off this thing like a sack of potatoes
from a turnip truck.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
And all my weight landing on my left hip. Standing on.
Speaker 6 (09:23):
He went out from under you, and that spur caught.
Speaker 5 (09:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
When I would step now I went. I lay on
my right hip and it hurt so bad I couldn't breathe.
And my dad come over. He said, what is wrong
with them? Because he didn't see it.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
He just turned around. I'm on the ground.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Something else has caught my mule stepped on it finished
right by the way. We got no more bids on
he so, anyway, Dad's over to me, and I just
hold my hand a butt. I love my dad. I
maybe talked back to my dad twice in my life.
I mean, I'm mortified as a kid. I mean, it's dad,
you know. And I just held my handle. Lot shut up,
I keep talk. I'm not going to talk for me.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
And I finally I said, he said, what happened? I said, well,
I stood up on.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Him, and he said, on that sign of a blank
is what were you thinking?
Speaker 4 (10:03):
I said, said my good idea at the time.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
So there's some there's some showmanship in, yes, in.
Speaker 6 (10:10):
Selling these mules, and that's that's what makes it fun.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
To watch, yeah, exactly, and in which we get animated
taking bids. I mean, when I was younger, I can't
do it now. I'd be selling them you and have
a bit on each side of the auction ring. I'd
rope from one side, jump off, catch bid, jump back on, go,
get the guy back in the backup bit on another side.
And I know there were some people that done that
just to see me do it. I mean they thought
it was funny. You know, the emotions go running. Yes,
(10:33):
you can get mules or horses sold higher as high
or higher at home. There's certain scenarios. You got that
that one customer that always comes to you, or whatever
you can get. I'm not saying you get more at
auction every time. However, every time somebody bids, you're taking
ownership of that animal or that car, whatever you're buying
an auction, when you bid, you just took ownership. It
(10:54):
may be for one second, maybe thirty second, but it's yours.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
At that moment.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Well, if you want it enough, Why don't think I
got to have my mule, that's my mual. Why's he
bidding against my bed again? And so I think that's
the reason auctions work well for a lot of things
is and I think sometimes you get more for one
and sometimes we've gotten I mean, I've sold mules and
horses that at auction.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
I wouldn't ask you that much for it.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Hot a live auction can be a seller's market. But
the benefit to the buyer is how many mules they
get to look at all in the same place. And
what I've learned is that meal trainers or the people
selling these mules who come year after year can get
reputations good and bad, and buyers tend to know what
(11:38):
they're getting just because of whose mule it is. This
can be good or bad. How many on average mules
would you sell at the aid of mule.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Sell, it's always average around one hundred and fifty seventy five.
Since we moved here properly year, you're gonna have close
to I'd say.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
We have two hundred.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
We got nearly one hundred in the catalog, so we
usually get it varies.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
You just don't know. More people are putting their muals
in the catalog.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
The catalog sale is where you can sign the mule,
you pay a consignment fee, You get the information and
pictures videos to us ahead of.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Time, so it's a it's a you're coming to consignment sale.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Would be a better way for a lot of people
to under people know what they're getting.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
That's right.
Speaker 6 (12:23):
A catalog mule is going to go through the trail course.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
Go through a trail course.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
So at this cell there's going to be two categories
of meals. There's the catalog mules, which are vetted in
some degree, they've gone through a trail course.
Speaker 6 (12:36):
They you know this mule's coming.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
But then there's also people that are just going to
show up that on Saturday, and they're gonna say, I
want I want.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
This mule sold.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
Who is buying mules at this cell?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Is it the individual guy that just is like, Hey,
I want to go buy a meals so that I
can you know, ride and trail, ride and hunt. Or
is it mule buyers and mule traders. Is it people
from all over the country. Is it regional? Like who
are these people?
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Yes to all those, it's we got sero individuals that
you know, they trail right, maybe their mule died, maybe
got older, maybe they remarried and they lost their last
mule and divorce and everyone.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
Sounds like a tough situation.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
She could be. But then the outfitters, mule traders or sellers.
One guy I know, he called me he's got a
couple of customers that, you know.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Somebody might be here that that is representing such back home.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
And that's I know, we got a couple of outfitters
going to be here in the fall of the internet.
We have one outfitter in a Wyomi that bought seat
so online. So yeah, we kind of get all of it,
you know. So so it's got several benefits stoning for
the seller. But asso for the buyer and that they
can look and uh yeah, there's four in the cattle
and everybody like I think I'm gonna go, or they
(13:43):
don't have one I'm looking for I'm yeah, you know,
I'll stay at home.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
What are some of the things that people are wanting
to see in that ring? Like if I could go
in there right now and make my mule lay down
and I can get on.
Speaker 6 (13:56):
And off of it, I mean, that's kind of kind
of lashy.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
One thing does show with some willingness to please.
Speaker 6 (14:02):
Yeah, it's indicator. It's like he'll lay down, lets you
get on off of him. There's probably other stuff he's doing.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Right, but but you don't need to buy him just
because it's kind of like that stock live mu or
a grave mule when we're talking about earlier. It's okay,
they got that, But you don't need to buy him
just because he's got that. Yeah, that needs to be
an added bonus. That sorrow or baby mule has no
light on him might take.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Care of you just as good or better, you know.
Speaker 6 (14:24):
So, so what impresses you in the ring when you
see him?
Speaker 1 (14:28):
When that mule comes in slow lope, you don't have
to have that real short lope, just a nice, comfortable slow,
not not charging head down, loping on a loose rain
in a circle. If you can get a mut or
horse to lope a circle in a square pin on
a loose rain, it shows me you've done your work
and that mule has got a lot of potential, has
got a good mind on it. It's not it's not
(14:48):
looking for now that mule knows at least. Look, you're
asking a lot of circle. That's what that mule is
going to do it. It's not trying to do what
it wants to do, it's what you want to.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Max Bishop is a longtime muleman and buyer. He makes
this complete living buying and selling mules. So he has
a lot of experience and has been to a lot
of sales. Here's what he has to say about this
eight of sale.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
There's a lot of good mules here.
Speaker 7 (15:22):
There's gonna be some more average type mules here, so
different different budgets. You're gonna have some hot sellers here
that are probably a loss as any of the mules
that are in the big cells like the J. Clark
cell or crom in the canyon. But in those cells
they're almost for sure, all the mules are super high,
so it's kind of limited for who can buy them.
Or this is going to have some mules that are
going to go really really cheap, when some are going
(15:44):
to go pretty high. So I'd say this is more
of a sell for everybody.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yeah, Max is about to mention these Saturday night sales,
which refers to a small scale local livestock auction, and
he compares buying there to buying catalog mule or a
vetted meal that's gone through the trail course.
Speaker 6 (16:04):
At a sale like.
Speaker 7 (16:05):
This the Saturday night cells, you know, they're gonna have
some cheap mules there, but they're generally there for a reason.
They got problems and stuff like that. So those are
you know, that's that's the danger of going to a
regular cell cell. These are a lot of these are
catalog mules. And so these mules are booked, you know,
a month or two in advance, probably two three months
in advance, and uh, you know, people believe they're good mules.
(16:25):
They're trying to get a top dollar for them, and
they have to come out here in the open and
compete in a course, you know, you take it to
a cell barn. You got that little bitty arena and
get away with a lot of stuff, and you can
drug them up and get away with things a lot better. Here,
they're gonna have to be out and open. They gotta
go through this course. They're gonna have to back up.
They're gonna have to lope. They're gotta walk trot. The
trot's gonna show if they're lame or not lame. If
they're off, you know, you can kind of see. They
(16:46):
gotta go over a bridge. They gotta go through, uh
some pull noodles and things that would spook or book
or some they have before that you don't see here,
but they've already done it before they're allowed to come
in here. They have to go there and take a
bridle on and off. See if they're earshi or not earshot.
It could buy their feeds if they're gonna kick her.
So those things ought to be preapproved in the catalog mules.
If it's a catalog mule and you buy it and
(17:07):
you go and you check it after the cell and
there's something wrong with it, mister Johnny, and then we'll
make you take it back. You have to pay it,
so you kind of have a not a long time guarantee,
but you have a guarantee if something happens, like in
the next day or two.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I'm still trying to figure out who's here at this cell.
I step outside and I see some young fellas riding
mules through the parking lot.
Speaker 6 (17:30):
I stop and talk to them. Where are you from?
Speaker 8 (17:34):
Are at City, Oklahoma?
Speaker 6 (17:35):
Why are y'all selling these mules?
Speaker 4 (17:37):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (17:37):
Are they? Are they?
Speaker 6 (17:38):
Is this mule yours?
Speaker 5 (17:39):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (17:39):
Or she is? She's eight years old and been hogging
it off of and drove kids and been everywhere you
can really put a mule pretty much.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
So when you sell this mule for the high high
selling mule and you make twenty grand, what are you
gonna do with it?
Speaker 8 (17:56):
Probably go buy me a trick.
Speaker 6 (17:58):
He's full of it, isn't he.
Speaker 5 (17:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (18:00):
Now, y'all, are all these mules y'all worked?
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (18:05):
Yeah? Have you done this before? Have you raised up
a mule and sold them? Yes, sir?
Speaker 8 (18:09):
I got two more in the sale, and I've bring
one up here almost every year and I sell them.
Speaker 6 (18:14):
How old are you?
Speaker 8 (18:15):
I'm fifteen.
Speaker 6 (18:17):
How long you've been doing that for about five years?
What do you hope to get for this meal that
you're on right now, hopefully nine thousand old. For real,
you think it's worth nine thousand? I hope she is.
Speaker 8 (18:29):
I think she is.
Speaker 6 (18:30):
Really.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
You can learn a lot about a group of people
by talking to their young folks. And I'd say that
these boys are probably bucking the American trend of living
their lives behind a screen. This boy's been training and
selling mules since he was ten years old. And what's
unique about a mule is that the more you ride it,
the more you take it places and get it into
binds and see how it responds, the more money it's worth.
(18:54):
So time in the saddle equals money. But you've got
to be able to prove that to the crowd in
a really short time. I hope this boy gets his
nine grand for that mule.
Speaker 6 (19:08):
What's the like? Prim prim mule? For age?
Speaker 5 (19:13):
Color?
Speaker 6 (19:15):
Size?
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Like?
Speaker 6 (19:16):
What the mule?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
That is the top sailing mule on Saturday? What do
you predict it's gonna be?
Speaker 1 (19:24):
The age has crept up over the years, but I
predicted to be over five or older, probably not over
ten or twelve. As a rule, the mule is gonna
stand fourteen three to fifteen one weigh one thousand pounds
and ask it. You ask it to do it, it does it.
It's gonna loap off right over its tracks if you
want it to. It's gonna ride, maybe not exactly pretty
(19:46):
one handed, graining ride, but it's gonna ride between the
bright rangs. For what I mean by that is for them,
it's gonna stay neck, is gonna stay between your bright
rings where it's at, and it's gonna work off your legs.
Look to some degree, be a gentle, very kind eye
on it. Just a nice meal.
Speaker 6 (20:01):
I mean, what about the colors? Color means anything?
Speaker 1 (20:04):
No, it means absolutely nothing to me. It's us to
some people. It does to some people, and I get it,
I understand it. My thing is in My older brother
taught me this one. He said, look at one with
color as if it had no color, and would you
still buy?
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Color doesn't mean much? And some even think that solid
mules you're better. But it's kind of like the vanity
of picking a car color. But if you're buying a mule,
you know, why not get one you like? And flashy mules,
which are ones that aren't solid but are multi colored,
often having some wide add on, often sell better at auction.
(20:40):
Mules are measured in hands, and one hand is equivalent
to four inches, so a fifteen hand mule is sixty
inches at the top of the shoulder. A mule can
be ridden at two or three years old, but it
reaches its prime often around eight years old, and has
a long working life, stretching to over twenty five years.
Speaker 6 (20:59):
Mules can live longer than horses.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
I once asking old coon hunter in Arkansas how long
he'd been married. He paused for a minute and he said, well,
I got my mule the year that we got married,
and that mule died just a couple of years ago,
when it was fifty four years old. Yeah, so I've
been married fifty seven years. That's a long time for
(21:22):
a mule to live and a long time to be married.
But I think we're getting ahead of ourselves here. Do
you even know what a mule is? This is Johnny Kelso,
Justin's father. He's kind of a legend in the mule community,
and he's been at this for a long time.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Well, a mule is a cross between a female horse
and a male donkey, and that gets the best of
both worlds. I would say, I don't care about a
donkey or a horse. But when you blind them together,
I like it real good. They've been used and known
for years. As far as a kindergarten knowing about it,
(22:06):
I'm not sure most of them think. If you drive
a pair of mules in a parade, they think.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
They're all horses.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
And I will tell them to look at the ears.
The ears are longer. The first thing you notice the
unique characteristics of a meal is to what you can
do with one. You can get the job done with ease,
with less feed, with less vet bills, They live longer,
and the list goes on. It's the economics that makes
(22:36):
a mule.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
But that same year you get a let's say, a
fifteen hundred pound horse in the field working a mule
weigh twelve fifty or thirteen hundred to do the same
work well. Gas consumption of flat better term on a
mule or a horse is not based on how efficient
the engine is. It's based on a body. Where you
feed an animal a percentage of your body weight. So
(23:02):
if this mule weighs less than that horse does, I
got to feed them less, get less of a here
to haul off. It's just it's less work in the
grant skip and he's in the same amount of same
amount of work, so more more work per pound of
that trap.
Speaker 6 (23:15):
Ecline flesh that trap.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I wanted to ask Max Bishop how mules compared to horses.
Speaker 5 (23:25):
They've got stronger feet.
Speaker 7 (23:26):
You know, if you're out in the rockies, in the
high country, you're after sheep hunting or all cutting or something.
You throw a shoe on a horse that might go
bad lane before you get back in. The mule probably
never notice. They eat less, They live and work probably
ten years longer than a horse. Their cardio is insane.
So you take two of the best horses you can
find out on a ranch and I'm gonna wear them out,
(23:47):
you know, just cardio.
Speaker 5 (23:49):
Was I think.
Speaker 7 (23:50):
I think they get more of their skeletal structure from
the horse, but they get the muscle structure more.
Speaker 5 (23:54):
For the donkey on average musto them.
Speaker 7 (23:56):
If you're up in the mountains, you're climbing, you're climbing
hills or something, and let's say it's real sketchy, the horse's.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
Answer is gonna be I'm gonna throw the gas to it.
Speaker 7 (24:05):
I'm gonna try to get to the top, and it's
either gonna look really good, or it's gonna flip over.
The mule is gonna want to downshift and pick its feet,
climb up, spear end, get on its knees if it
has to.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
And they're more full of drop.
Speaker 5 (24:17):
Minded on the average. And then a mule, if you look.
Speaker 7 (24:20):
At its eyes, it's set out more on the side
like a donkey instead of more forward. So the horse
sees two feet at a time. It seize the left
side of the right side of the mule can see
all four feet at the same time. So it gives
them an advantage of a little where they see when
they know they can see where they're putting.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
The foot.
Speaker 5 (24:40):
There.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
And they endure too.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
I mean they're just a hybrid between the dulky and
the horse, and they're and they endure.
Speaker 5 (24:49):
They just do.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
They take care of drought situations. They can stand the
heat better. They were used all through the South through
the years, and more horses than the noise, and that
had something to do with a climate.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Duck guess.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
But the meals have been used in the United States
for a long time.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
The common Knowledgy, the first Jack's brought to America, was
gifted to George Washington by the King of Spain. He
was gifted too. They weren't mammoth donkeys, they were mammo sized.
It's a different breed, the longer hair, I think curlier is.
It's a Spanish type donkey.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
It's believed that the first jack donkeys arrived in America
in seventeen eighty five to produce our first mules.
Speaker 6 (25:31):
But why mules? There's more.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Part of it is their temperament both ways. One is
the safety of it. If you're going to the mountains,
they're more sure fitted like their daddy was. You can't
hardly knock a donkey down. So they get their shere
food and it's from daddy. Because like we was talking earlier,
their shoulders are more in narrow, so you got less
replacement for their feet, and they walk more in the
lateral motions, so they can go where a goat goes
almost you know, because there where a horse stays out
(25:56):
square on the corners, which makes a horse in a
way more stable in some ways. For for opening performance
SAT kinds, they got more muscle and more masks to them.
The mule is leaner by comparison, my opinion, they're more
comfortable to ride as far as just the way the
saddle feels moving underneath you going trail riding, especially in
the rough country, is more comfortable on your whole body,
(26:19):
just based on the way a mule moves versus the
way horse moves. But some people don't want the mule
because they don't like the quote unquote stubborness. You almost
got to think a little harder sometimes riding that proper mule.
But people in the mountains on them for safety and endurance,
buy and large. You can get a little more out
of the mule without killing it. You can kill a
horse by you can run a horse to death. You
(26:41):
can't hardly kill them. I mean it's really hard to
ride them hard.
Speaker 6 (26:44):
Enough to kill it. Yeah, go away mechanisms inside of them.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
And it's the same with a feed. We keep a
lot of mules on feed in the wintertime. We sell
mules Lamish sell probably one hundred and fifty head a
year up there, So we go through a lot of
feeding on and we're gonna try off out for one
though we bought to be but three eight bells the mules.
We couldn't keep bedding to them because the protein so
much in an alfalfa. They knew they didn't need that much.
(27:08):
They eat the straw we bed them with, and the
hay lasted probably fifty percent longer than a normal grass
mail would, But they knew they had to absorb some
of that protein with something else for a horse or
the gorse itself on the alfalfa them. If I'm gonna
go cowboy all day, no, I know I probably need
that good bread cow horse that knows what he's done,
knows how to work a rope and all that. Can
(27:29):
I do it on my mule, yes I can. But
if you say we're gonna go hunting now with this fall,
I'm you're probably gonna get me on that horse. It's
fall gonna cost you money to make me ride a
horse up in the mountains. Sure, it's gonna take that
good bread cow horse up there. But my mule, yeah,
it's it's bred into him genetically to handle that brofer train.
And one another difference on a mule and horse. And
(27:51):
that's why I tell a lot of people. They'll ask
me what's the difference, I said, riding them wise, I said,
you could have mew and horse, start them the same way,
have the same I ride both of them and they
respond to everything just a lot. That's the difference, says
I said. If that trash bag that's one hundred yards
out there, that horse might not seeckly gets ten yards away.
That mule said it when he stepped down even one
(28:11):
hundred yards. He's watching.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
He knows what.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
He may not. He might not spook at it, but
he's already seen it. Yeah, and that's a that's a
bear out there. I'm confident that's a grizzly bear and
he's gonna eat me, you know what I mean. So
he may not be scared to get eaten. He may
walk right by it, but he's seen it, he knows
where it's at.
Speaker 5 (28:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
But mules are more of a there by far more
of a one person type animal versus a horse. And
it's almost a mental thing there there more apt to
be just more have to be yours where a horse
to be years is. I mean you, yes, you get
that one horse special might do that little extra for you,
but we'll still do everything very except meal is more
(28:48):
apt to do something for the person they like the most. Yeah,
I step on a mule that's broke, and when I
step on it with a you say authority confidence, whatever
whatever term you want to use it. They may not
check me very hard that my chick may be well,
I gotta, you know, encourage a little more to leave
the barn. Whatever the case is. You put an office
on it, don't eith Maybe get a little fear in
(29:08):
them because they don't know the mule. That mean wan
my buck with them, whereas a horse you're not gonna
have that. That horse gonna buck with me too, It's
not gonna Just so.
Speaker 6 (29:16):
There's there's more predictability in a horse.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
I think so. And he goes back to that quote
unquote stubborness of that mule's self preservation that if I
book him off, I don't have to do this.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
But me was also smart enough. No, Hey, this guy here,
he's sitting pretty firm in that saddle. I bet I
can't shake him.
Speaker 6 (29:34):
So, just to summarize what you're saying, because it's really interesting,
if you.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Have a good broke horse, you could put a kid
on there, or your grandma or the best cowboy in
the country, and that horse is probably gonna treat them
the same.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Same.
Speaker 6 (29:50):
If you take a twenty thousand dollars mule.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yep, that twenty thousand dollars mule be just like that
horse is well, okay, so that's why I'm saying that
mule all right.
Speaker 6 (29:58):
So maybe my, my, my, my example is not the best.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
No, it is because it's kind of the point.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
It's not a straightforward answer on which is better a
mule or a horse. It really matters what you're doing
and your experience level. What makes a mule special is
also the thing that can make them more difficult than
a horse. And going back to the question of why
there are probably twenty times as many horses as mules,
it's partly because horses are just easier to get along with,
(30:27):
but it's also because mules are sterile, meaning they can't
have offspring, so they're just harder to make. But to
summarize why people love mules, it's that a good one
is the safest, most comfortable ride in rough country period.
I've heard it said that you can train a horse
to run off a cliff, but a mule has so
(30:48):
much self protection in it often viewed as stubbornness, and
he ain't running off no cliff. So the safest place
to be is ride in that saddle and just to
be honest about it. A bad mule can be a
much bigger outlaw than a bad horse. It's complicated, but
I think Johnny probably sums it up best right here.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
If you're a mule person and you enjoy mules, you're
going to know that feeling and all those answers. But
it's hard to explain to your horse people.
Speaker 5 (31:22):
But if your horse people.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Ever get bit by the bug and they get them
a mule, then they can't explain it to their buddies either.
It's just a mule fame. We've thought about getting some
T shirt sometimes, you know, it's just a mule fan.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Insurance is high in today's world, my one.
Speaker 6 (31:48):
You can ride tomorrow with confidence. Right there.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
The Kelsos have had a lot of time to develop
their opinions on mules. Here's some family history.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Kelso's come from Scotland through Ireland Appalachians. To our knowledge,
they didn't stay in the Carolina's long. They come straight
to West Kentucky because they got here right around the
Jackson purchase time, which has been the eighteen twenties during
the New Indian Removal Act, when Andrew Jackson bought.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
The typical western tip of Kentucky. JB.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Kelse and his dad moved back there. JB fought the
Civil War and I sent you a picture through texts
of him holding a big black, white nose jack. He
finished the Civil War on top of Lookout Mountain. Come back,
and a lot of dark fire to back that was grown.
It still is grown right there where we're out. In
the winter time. He would haul he drive six mules
go to Banuka to the river front, hauling back up there,
(32:51):
and they bring dry goods back to all the little
country stores that were three or four.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
Miles apart in the area.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
So mules has been our family since and ever since
we've always had mules. By great grandaddy traded a little bit.
He raised family. My great grandmother died very young, so
he raised four kids and he would borro and trade.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
But he would trade mules.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
And back then you had you know, this is even
up to the sixties, you had a lot of people,
especially our country in the back country, still using mules
for agriculture purposes. So you had a lot of undesirable mules,
horses that would the slaughter. He would buy slaughter mules
to feed hogs with. And he had a mule that
he would use to skin those mules with. He would
(33:30):
hook that single tree to the hide, and she was
broken enough he could tell her.
Speaker 6 (33:34):
To buy mules to feed his hogs.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Yeah, because he could give three to four dollars for
the meal skin the mew once he needed hog feed,
because that's the feed that holds itself. It won't go
bad laws it's living, so it's fresh meat for the hogs.
And people that don't know hogs, I mean, you've been
around enough. Wht holes don't eat anything. I mean they're
worse than the goat. I mean they're gonna eat anything.
And he would hook that single tree in that hide
as he's skinning this mule, and he would tell her
(33:59):
to ease up, and she would lean in the collar,
not step lean and keep pressure.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
On that on that hide. So he cut it away.
But anyway, so my granddaddy grew up. When he was
a little boy and his daddy brought the first car home.
He was mad, he's, daddy, how in the world we're
gonna hook a horse up to this thing. I mean,
we just had that ingrained in us all our life,
you know. And then dad always traded livestock, farmed grew
hay grew tobacco, worked local sail bar and traded whatever anything.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
And this had been seventy nine. My granddad was visiting
the army buddy in Montana and they were out somewhere.
I don't know how they come back. This guy got
talked to him. Back then, if you wanted a mule,
you had to get at least to Missouri East to find.
I mean that's not Center wasn't out layer of breeders,
but for the most part, all the mules were in
the East. And he said, I need these mules. You know,
(34:48):
may get them. So yeah, my son can, dude, and
he backed out. Dad ended up going to Bishop, California
in nineteen seventy nine the first time, and it just
steam rolled from there, you know. Just we were trade
horses and cattle. Dad was there all through the eighties
and I mean I still remember him trading cattle through
the late eighties. But as time went on, it was
specialized more mules, and it was a niche market, but
(35:11):
it's what we pursued because you didn't have a lot
of guys trading just mules.
Speaker 6 (35:16):
See, y'all became known for mules.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Yes, Counsel yes, sir, me and my granddaddy's a great
granddaddy was J. B. Kelso, James bethdon Kelso, but he
was the first Kelso. We know they had mules, and
every generation since sins had mules, just something either made
a living farming with him or made to live in
trade them one or two. And I'm the seventh generation
So and my kids they messed with mules. Son, but
(35:38):
not Jodie's boy.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
He'll be the eight.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Generation right now that he's graduated college with a business act,
business career and he's trading mules.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
So he's eighth generation and out.
Speaker 5 (35:48):
Lie far Ago.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
I think Justin is underselling his kids. You remember the
story of his son, Jack Rope and that guy. But
his daughter is a heck of a rider and as
tough as nails too. I heard a story where a
few years ago that she got kicked by a mule
just before the auction, but rode the mule in the
arena that she was trying to sell and she sold it.
(36:13):
After that, she finally went to the hospital and found
that she had a lacerated liver. That's tough as nails, boys,
But we still haven't really learned how the Kelso's got
into this aid of mule sell. It's a very interesting
story that involves selling mules into Old Mexico.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
There was a guy named George Wynn from this area.
Hesh lived north here, I think, but he was an
older guy and he dealt with the Mexicans that would
come up and trade racehorses one time. This is a
race coarter horse, racehorse capital the world, right or no
calmut selling. You're going to have a track. You used
to have a track of sell sow the tracks still there.
I'm not even sure they racehorses there anymore, but a
lot of those horses raised in this area, and they'd
(36:54):
have a good quarter horse, sell in a shawne ol'cloma
called the triangle sell three days sailing heat up his
buddies get their horse sold to these Mexicans. I don't
know this for a fact. Probably that you call them
cartel now more likely. I don't know that they traded drows,
but it was there, had a lot of money, That's
what I'm trying to say it. I'm confident it probably
wasn't allegal. Yeah, but George with his ties, we were
(37:17):
selling mules, sending into Mexico some teams and stuff draft
mules down to their some plantations and stuff, and they
would use the mules.
Speaker 5 (37:24):
I don't I don't know why they used them.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
I was just a kid at the time, barely probably
enough drive, maybe starting for us.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
So these Mexican guys were coming here to buy racehorses
when they found y'all and said, hey, we need mules too,
And so y'all started selling mules to these high dollar guys,
taking them back to the.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Money they went through. George never met them. We actually sold.
George called Dad one time because we sent a lot
of man the jack stand there to bring some of
their marriors that raised their own mules. And he called, ease,
I need a sixteen hand white jack, not a great jack.
A white jack. Dad called everybody he knew in the
United States trying to find it. Say, I mean one
of the sixteen hand jack in the late eighties was
(37:59):
tough to find anyway, bling alone a white sixteen andred.
Speaker 6 (38:03):
That's a big jack.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Yes, that's a huge anyway. So this jack, Dad finally
finds me. It's forty five miles from our house. They
got raised jack stock. This jack end up going to
the Mexico City University as a mascot.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
The stories just keep getting more interesting. I bet you
wouldn't have guessed that these guys were potentially selling mules
to the cartel. Hard to say, but this guy, George
Wynn got the Kelso's, who are from Kentucky selling mules
in the Ada, Oklahoma area. Johnny Kelso actually had multiple
mule sales across the country at one time, but today
(38:38):
they've settled in on Ada.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Eight, Oklahoma is a nice little town. It's real centrally located,
like the people that lived in the West, and I'm
saying west, like Utah and Colorado.
Speaker 5 (38:52):
A lot of them people there.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
They could drive in there in the day and that
makes it better for him. And we've been I've been
doing business there since ninety three, two sales a year,
and we just keep a having it because we've made
so many friends contacts up there. There's people in that
country and a lot of people from Texas that comes
up there and their families, couples that say, we take
(39:18):
our vacations and come here and they camp and visit
with other people, and I just kind of hate not
to have it. Really, I've made so many friends over
the years and don't want to quit. I could, but
I don't want.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
I asked Justin why mules seem to be in such
demand right now. I was surprised by his answer.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Part of it is nobody's breaking these things anymore, starting
them as a as a hobbyer, even as a job.
They're doing it. There's trainers that I'm not saying that.
Speaker 5 (39:52):
Part of it is.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
We've made our kids softer. That's just a fact. I mean. Now,
I see like this generation coming up now a little
grittier than they was. And I'm not saying there's not
some thirty year old gritty kids out there. I'm not
meaning it that way, but because my kids all rodeoed
and watch these kids grow up, and there's some gritty
kids out there, that's all I mean. But as a whole,
how many kids, all right? How many kids farms that
(40:15):
you live with or grew up on a farm when
you was in school? Most of them? How many your
son bear? How many those? How many of those group
on are living on a farm. And so that translates
to the mule world too.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
So you don't have those kids like there's more, there's less,
there's less or less and more demand.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Yeah, well, out the demands increased as much as you
just don't have that quality of animal. And like I
used to buy a two or three year old, right
it for six months and reselling them because there will
be somebody to buy a two year old. That's going good.
They worked, They used to want to get the bucket
of it, you know, they didn't want to They didn't
want to do the rough stuff. They want to train
it theirself. Well, now everybody works, You work at office,
you're busier. You know, back then everybody worked on a
(40:56):
farm or you have them knock off of ups because
there's raining, go home rides and mules at home or something.
Speaker 6 (41:01):
So is there not like a mule revival though going on? Culturally?
Speaker 4 (41:07):
Oh it is.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
That's reason these older mules are treating so well.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Going back to the question of why the Kelso's like
mules better than horses, This story about sums it up.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
When I worked in California in nineteen ninety five, the
last trip I went on, and I'm bull headed, especially
and what how way worse billheaded when I was twenty
one years old and they had a new horse that
hadn't been in the rocks yet, So any of hem
rolls the rocks on him. He uh, four or fifth day,
he's were climbing up on a slick rock, just a
(41:46):
huge rock, and he slips and falls over backwards on
me and cracks two ribs, tears ligament in my left knee.
I get it's a horse. I get flown off that mountain.
I call my mom and dad the next day when
I get landed, and I'd just spent the night on
topic at nine thousand feet in a tent, which is
so luckily the trip had a bunch of nurses.
Speaker 6 (42:07):
Doctors broke up pretty bad.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
No, not hurt me, but they had enough drugs. I
think I could have flew off that mount with a helicopter,
but c XP come in the next day and flew
me off the mountain. And I called my dad the
next day to something what happened, and he said, that's
what you get for riding a blanket horse and hung
up on me. I'm two thousand miles from home, never
been that far from home in my life, hadn't seen
my parents in three.
Speaker 6 (42:29):
He's upset with you for riding a horse and not
of mules, right, he hung up on me.
Speaker 4 (42:33):
The auction is.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Coming to a close, and a fine looking Grula colored
mule named Della enters the arena. Grula is a kind
of tannish gray or what they call a mouse color,
which is rare and desirable in a mule. It's a female.
This is what they call a molly mule, and she's
out of Missouri. She's fourteen hands tall, ten years old,
(42:58):
and a young girl in a pink western shirt and
a huge cowboy hat is riding Della in circles around
the arena. It looks like she's well broke, safe and
clearly has what they call a good handle on her.
Speaker 6 (43:13):
The crowd is eating it up.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
I don't care where you gotta go, but you gotta
find them before you can buy.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
We don't know three and a half years you've done
bigger and bigger places.
Speaker 8 (43:35):
But I'm right now, God, you are right here.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
If it goes with that's a thirty five.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
You me.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
You don't.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
Get seventeen thou.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
For your wrong.
Speaker 6 (44:21):
E eighteen.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
I hope you understood that Della just sold for seventeen thousand,
five hundred dollars, and I hope you understood what the
auctioneer said before that. He said seventeen thousand dollars won't
get you a new truck or even buy you a
proper burial at the funeral home. And ended up selling
as the high selling mule for the twenty twenty five
(45:05):
Spring Ada, Oklahoma sale, and she was purchased by somebody
from Texas. This was a lot of fun and if
you're looking to go to a sale this year, AIDA's
got another sale coming this fall in early October, and
I'm sure you'll be seeing me at Ada again. I
(45:25):
know on this episode we've learned a ton about mules
and I can't thank you enough for listening to Bear
Grease and Brent's This Country Life podcast.
Speaker 6 (45:35):
Please leave us a review on iTunes, Share this podcast
with a friend.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Keep the wild places wild, because that's where the bears live.
You take a leggy mule like that that will let
down and walk in the mirrors of rolling, they'll probably
walked three and a half four miles an hour. Who
covered a lot of ground like that. And that's what
I was saying earlier about me get a more general
diverse five. I mean it. No, those horses are out there.
I mean, don't get me wrong, they're out there. But
I promise you, I promise you we go to the
mountains and go riding that mule. Little step out and walk.
(00:29):
You may keep up with me, but I'm gonna kill
your horse and your back's gonna be hurting time more night.
I mean, it's just a fact.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, we're in Oklahoma at the thirty third annual Ada
Oklahoma Mules Sell to learn about mules, the Kelso family
who runs it, and to get some insight into rural America.
This auction is a rare jewel in today's time, full
of showmanship and tradition and a heck of a place
(00:55):
to pick up a good mule. And I really doubt
that you're gonna want to miss this one. And hey,
if you enjoy episodes like this, please share our podcast
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Speaker 3 (01:16):
It's hard to explain to your horse people. But if
your horse people ever get bit by the bug and
they get them a mule, then they can't explain it
to their buddies either. It's just a mule thing. We've
thought about getting some T shirt. Sometimes you know, it's
just a mule thing.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
My name is Klay Nukem and this is the Bear
Grease Podcast where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search
for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell the
story of Americans who live their lives close to the land.
Presented by f h F Gear, American made, purpose built
(02:03):
hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged
as the place as we explore.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
So the kids around here on Fridays, every Friday, they
ride a Chick fil A. It's a big deal. They
go through the drive through on their mules. They've been
on Oklahoma City News with it. It's been all over Facebook.
It's fun deal. Not time comes around. They're allowing to
go ride to town down the world. On the edge
of town we're on right here in Antion Town, right
here and there they're right downtown doing what kids do,
(02:38):
I mean, having a big town whatever. We didn't know
this was going on. Our kids used out riding all
we know, and I'm We're in the office up to
the front of the river and I see bloot. I said, well,
what's going on across the road? Over blue lights all over?
By the time my phone rings, it's my son.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
Answer. He said, Dad, what's my social Curity number? Said why,
he's with the cops. Needed I said, do what I said,
Are you under arrest?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
This is kind of the way things roll when the
mule sell is in town. This is fifty one year
old Justin Kelso. He's the seventh generation muleman and his
family has been involved in the ad to Oklahoma mules
sale since the first auction in nineteen ninety two. Today
they run the whole thing. But this story is about
his son, Jack Kelso.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Are you under arrest?
Speaker 5 (03:26):
He said?
Speaker 1 (03:27):
He said, hey, mind trouble. They said, no, he's no,
I'm not trouble. I said, are you under arrest or anything?
Speaker 4 (03:32):
No, No, he won't.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I said, your mother will be over in just a minute. Well,
This is on Friday night. They were cross the road
here on Broadway south south of where we're at, and
they'd rolled downtown. But if young lady stuck her head
out of this apartment complex, this y'all helped me throw me.
My man has thrown me out, and he had he
had throwed her all her close out the house there
and there. So they go over there. I don't know
(03:54):
that demand hitter. I'm not accusing him. I have no
idea what he done. So somehow or not, they're gonna help.
They go to her. They go to the front door. Now,
I mean, she's begging for help. So boys being good
boys that maybe little rambus just but good boys.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
The lady needs help. You help. I raise my son.
You take care of people, you know, if you can.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
And so they get this guy from porks and pretty
good scuffle and sues and the boy, my son was
probably fifteen sixteenth the time. The other boy's twenty twenty one.
And they get in a fight with this guy. They
get my son. I think he might have helped a
little bit, but he gets it broke up because his
buddy's pooping on this guy pretty good. And it's getting
(04:33):
almost out of hand. So Jack gets and broke up.
The guy goes back in the house, grabs his knife
and comes back out after that boy and Jack, by
this time he got back on his k meew when
he had alert rope. He just freaks out and ropes
this boy and drags him off by his feet, thumped
him down pretty good. And my wife Candy gets over there,
and these cops are just in stitches laughing. They're saying
(04:54):
this is the gratty saint's ever happened here to a
clumber and said, we've never seen so it turned out
he turned out he wrote the guy and drinking down.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
I mean, I'm not the greatest rope in the world.
My son, he was five.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Years old, sadad. He teached me how rope. This win
not a very good rope. I said, I'd give a
little play rope. That's here rope everything you see. So
the kids play with ropes and s's five years old
and he can usually really well. And he just reached
up jerk this guy. Now it's wondered he didn't hurt him,
Jersey because he wrote him and the loop dropped around
his legs and I mean he took his feet out
from So did.
Speaker 6 (05:23):
The guy get a racetrat?
Speaker 1 (05:24):
I think yeah, as far as I know, I didn't ask.
I'm just glad my son would into a white you know,
That's all I needed.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Was in court dating eight Oklahoma two.
Speaker 6 (05:31):
Welcome to aight Oklahoma.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Yeah boy.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
The eight of Oklahoma mules sell was three days long
and the main event is the mule auction on Saturday,
where they'll sell between one hundred and fifty and two
hundred mules. A sorrel colored mule, a red one is
being loped around the arena exactly.
Speaker 6 (06:00):
Honest.
Speaker 7 (06:00):
I've ever read as far as you want, all day long,
multiple days in a row, and if you do this round.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Three years.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
The owner of the mule has stood up in the
crowd to deliver a heartfelt sales pitch for this honest mule,
and the rider chimes into. The arena is surrounded by
bleachers filled with potential buyers, tire kickers, and onlookers. Everyone
is kind of here to see what the high selling
mule goes for. The mule sold for fifteen thousand dollars
(06:50):
to an online bidder from Idaho. Yeah, this place is
pretty high tech, but that wasn't the high selling mule.
The way this works is that one by one, each
mule that's up for sale is ridden through the arena
while the auctioneer and the owners seeing its praises. The
rider has the crowd's attention for just a few minutes,
(07:11):
and he's got to show the years of work that's
gone into this animal. People in the crowd bid by
raising their hand or yelling to the auctioneer. But the
thing about an auction is that this is a spectator sport.
Will there be a lot of people here that are
just spectators just come to watch.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
Come see the big deal. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
And there's people here come here to vacation. They just
want to see what the mules bring. Yeah, I hate
you here with that mule brought eighty Yeah is there
and I seen it. They talk, you know, coffee shop
talks like going to a ball game. Some ways, a
lot of the spectator and you'll see the tricks and
the shows. I mean in a way, horse and mule
seals are almost entertainers in a way too. Yeah, there
are show offs. I mean because you're showing the mule.
(07:54):
That's the reason the mule and horses are sold. In
my opinion, I've sold stuff all my life. I sold equipment,
sold cattle. Mules and horses are the most fun to
sell because you can do the tricks, you can show
off in you.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
There's some showman, there's some showmanships. So I have been
selling at a live.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Auction, and there's disbandaged that showmanship. The reason my Hilberts
was here ten fifteen years ago. This mule but somebody off.
I wrotehim with the house a little. He rode fine more.
I wrote this mule Barry got I mean he got
to ride well, I mean really was going to show good.
And I think we had at nineteen hundred bed on
this mule, which was more than we thought he'd bring
(08:29):
because we weren't bragging on you know, we didn't bring
on how gentle he was. I just showed him what
he would do. Guaranteed him sound. Didn't guarantee him be
gentle because we knew he butt somebody off. I'm not
gonna guarantee that when I know that. And uh Dad
had his back turned trying to catch bed somewhere. I
stood up my saddle and I fell teen bunch. I
knew he was gonna I didn't think he but I
thought he might kind of try to jump out from
(08:50):
under me or something done unto a thousand times. Just
step off. That's a five foot drop to step off.
He was a turn he could. He knew he could
take advantage of me in that point because I have
no control that.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Morning, I'm trusting you.
Speaker 6 (09:02):
You've lost.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, But I mean I've been doing this kind of
stuff since I was seven eight years old.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
Just jump off.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And when I did, I had both feet and the
seat of my saddle, my spurs I had. I used
to write center high school and college. When I stepped
off my left foot leading, I hung my right spur
and fell off this thing like a sack of potatoes
from a turnip truck.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
And all my weight landing on my left hip. Standing on.
Speaker 6 (09:23):
He went out from under you, and that spur caught.
Speaker 5 (09:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
When I would step now I went. I lay on
my right hip and it hurt so bad I couldn't breathe.
And my dad come over. He said, what is wrong
with them? Because he didn't see it.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
He just turned around. I'm on the ground.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Something else has caught my mule stepped on it finished
right by the way. We got no more bids on
he so, anyway, Dad's over to me, and I just
hold my hand a butt. I love my dad. I
maybe talked back to my dad twice in my life.
I mean, I'm mortified as a kid. I mean, it's dad,
you know. And I just held my handle. Lot shut up,
I keep talk. I'm not going to talk for me.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
And I finally I said, he said, what happened? I said, well,
I stood up on.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Him, and he said, on that sign of a blank
is what were you thinking?
Speaker 4 (10:03):
I said, said my good idea at the time.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
So there's some there's some showmanship in, yes, in.
Speaker 6 (10:10):
Selling these mules, and that's that's what makes it fun.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
To watch, yeah, exactly, and in which we get animated
taking bids. I mean, when I was younger, I can't
do it now. I'd be selling them you and have
a bit on each side of the auction ring. I'd
rope from one side, jump off, catch bid, jump back on, go,
get the guy back in the backup bit on another side.
And I know there were some people that done that
just to see me do it. I mean they thought
it was funny. You know, the emotions go running. Yes,
(10:33):
you can get mules or horses sold higher as high
or higher at home. There's certain scenarios. You got that
that one customer that always comes to you, or whatever
you can get. I'm not saying you get more at
auction every time. However, every time somebody bids, you're taking
ownership of that animal or that car, whatever you're buying
an auction, when you bid, you just took ownership. It
(10:54):
may be for one second, maybe thirty second, but it's yours.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
At that moment.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Well, if you want it enough, Why don't think I
got to have my mule, that's my mual. Why's he
bidding against my bed again? And so I think that's
the reason auctions work well for a lot of things
is and I think sometimes you get more for one
and sometimes we've gotten I mean, I've sold mules and
horses that at auction.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
I wouldn't ask you that much for it.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Hot a live auction can be a seller's market. But
the benefit to the buyer is how many mules they
get to look at all in the same place. And
what I've learned is that meal trainers or the people
selling these mules who come year after year can get
reputations good and bad, and buyers tend to know what
(11:38):
they're getting just because of whose mule it is. This
can be good or bad. How many on average mules
would you sell at the aid of mule.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Sell, it's always average around one hundred and fifty seventy five.
Since we moved here properly year, you're gonna have close
to I'd say.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
We have two hundred.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
We got nearly one hundred in the catalog, so we
usually get it varies.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
You just don't know. More people are putting their muals
in the catalog.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
The catalog sale is where you can sign the mule,
you pay a consignment fee, You get the information and
pictures videos to us ahead of.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Time, so it's a it's a you're coming to consignment sale.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Would be a better way for a lot of people
to under people know what they're getting.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
That's right.
Speaker 6 (12:23):
A catalog mule is going to go through the trail course.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
Go through a trail course.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
So at this cell there's going to be two categories
of meals. There's the catalog mules, which are vetted in
some degree, they've gone through a trail course.
Speaker 6 (12:36):
They you know this mule's coming.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
But then there's also people that are just going to
show up that on Saturday, and they're gonna say, I
want I want.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
This mule sold.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
Who is buying mules at this cell?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Is it the individual guy that just is like, Hey,
I want to go buy a meals so that I
can you know, ride and trail, ride and hunt. Or
is it mule buyers and mule traders. Is it people
from all over the country. Is it regional? Like who
are these people?
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Yes to all those, it's we got sero individuals that
you know, they trail right, maybe their mule died, maybe
got older, maybe they remarried and they lost their last
mule and divorce and everyone.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
Sounds like a tough situation.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
She could be. But then the outfitters, mule traders or sellers.
One guy I know, he called me he's got a
couple of customers that, you know.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Somebody might be here that that is representing such back home.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
And that's I know, we got a couple of outfitters
going to be here in the fall of the internet.
We have one outfitter in a Wyomi that bought seat
so online. So yeah, we kind of get all of it,
you know. So so it's got several benefits stoning for
the seller. But asso for the buyer and that they
can look and uh yeah, there's four in the cattle
and everybody like I think I'm gonna go, or they
(13:43):
don't have one I'm looking for I'm yeah, you know,
I'll stay at home.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
What are some of the things that people are wanting
to see in that ring? Like if I could go
in there right now and make my mule lay down
and I can get on.
Speaker 6 (13:56):
And off of it, I mean, that's kind of kind
of lashy.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
One thing does show with some willingness to please.
Speaker 6 (14:02):
Yeah, it's indicator. It's like he'll lay down, lets you
get on off of him. There's probably other stuff he's doing.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Right, but but you don't need to buy him just
because it's kind of like that stock live mu or
a grave mule when we're talking about earlier. It's okay,
they got that, But you don't need to buy him
just because he's got that. Yeah, that needs to be
an added bonus. That sorrow or baby mule has no
light on him might take.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Care of you just as good or better, you know.
Speaker 6 (14:24):
So, so what impresses you in the ring when you
see him?
Speaker 1 (14:28):
When that mule comes in slow lope, you don't have
to have that real short lope, just a nice, comfortable slow,
not not charging head down, loping on a loose rain
in a circle. If you can get a mut or
horse to lope a circle in a square pin on
a loose rain, it shows me you've done your work
and that mule has got a lot of potential, has
got a good mind on it. It's not it's not
(14:48):
looking for now that mule knows at least. Look, you're
asking a lot of circle. That's what that mule is
going to do it. It's not trying to do what
it wants to do, it's what you want to.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Max Bishop is a longtime muleman and buyer. He makes
this complete living buying and selling mules. So he has
a lot of experience and has been to a lot
of sales. Here's what he has to say about this
eight of sale.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
There's a lot of good mules here.
Speaker 7 (15:22):
There's gonna be some more average type mules here, so
different different budgets. You're gonna have some hot sellers here
that are probably a loss as any of the mules
that are in the big cells like the J. Clark
cell or crom in the canyon. But in those cells
they're almost for sure, all the mules are super high,
so it's kind of limited for who can buy them.
Or this is going to have some mules that are
going to go really really cheap, when some are going
(15:44):
to go pretty high. So I'd say this is more
of a sell for everybody.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yeah, Max is about to mention these Saturday night sales,
which refers to a small scale local livestock auction, and
he compares buying there to buying catalog mule or a
vetted meal that's gone through the trail course.
Speaker 6 (16:04):
At a sale like.
Speaker 7 (16:05):
This the Saturday night cells, you know, they're gonna have
some cheap mules there, but they're generally there for a reason.
They got problems and stuff like that. So those are
you know, that's that's the danger of going to a
regular cell cell. These are a lot of these are
catalog mules. And so these mules are booked, you know,
a month or two in advance, probably two three months
in advance, and uh, you know, people believe they're good mules.
(16:25):
They're trying to get a top dollar for them, and
they have to come out here in the open and
compete in a course, you know, you take it to
a cell barn. You got that little bitty arena and
get away with a lot of stuff, and you can
drug them up and get away with things a lot better. Here,
they're gonna have to be out and open. They gotta
go through this course. They're gonna have to back up.
They're gonna have to lope. They're gotta walk trot. The
trot's gonna show if they're lame or not lame. If
they're off, you know, you can kind of see. They
(16:46):
gotta go over a bridge. They gotta go through, uh
some pull noodles and things that would spook or book
or some they have before that you don't see here,
but they've already done it before they're allowed to come
in here. They have to go there and take a
bridle on and off. See if they're earshi or not earshot.
It could buy their feeds if they're gonna kick her.
So those things ought to be preapproved in the catalog mules.
If it's a catalog mule and you buy it and
(17:07):
you go and you check it after the cell and
there's something wrong with it, mister Johnny, and then we'll
make you take it back. You have to pay it,
so you kind of have a not a long time guarantee,
but you have a guarantee if something happens, like in
the next day or two.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I'm still trying to figure out who's here at this cell.
I step outside and I see some young fellas riding
mules through the parking lot.
Speaker 6 (17:30):
I stop and talk to them. Where are you from?
Speaker 8 (17:34):
Are at City, Oklahoma?
Speaker 6 (17:35):
Why are y'all selling these mules?
Speaker 4 (17:37):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (17:37):
Are they? Are they?
Speaker 6 (17:38):
Is this mule yours?
Speaker 5 (17:39):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (17:39):
Or she is? She's eight years old and been hogging
it off of and drove kids and been everywhere you
can really put a mule pretty much.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
So when you sell this mule for the high high
selling mule and you make twenty grand, what are you
gonna do with it?
Speaker 8 (17:56):
Probably go buy me a trick.
Speaker 6 (17:58):
He's full of it, isn't he.
Speaker 5 (17:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (18:00):
Now, y'all, are all these mules y'all worked?
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (18:05):
Yeah? Have you done this before? Have you raised up
a mule and sold them? Yes, sir?
Speaker 8 (18:09):
I got two more in the sale, and I've bring
one up here almost every year and I sell them.
Speaker 6 (18:14):
How old are you?
Speaker 8 (18:15):
I'm fifteen.
Speaker 6 (18:17):
How long you've been doing that for about five years?
What do you hope to get for this meal that
you're on right now, hopefully nine thousand old. For real,
you think it's worth nine thousand? I hope she is.
Speaker 8 (18:29):
I think she is.
Speaker 6 (18:30):
Really.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
You can learn a lot about a group of people
by talking to their young folks. And I'd say that
these boys are probably bucking the American trend of living
their lives behind a screen. This boy's been training and
selling mules since he was ten years old. And what's
unique about a mule is that the more you ride it,
the more you take it places and get it into
binds and see how it responds, the more money it's worth.
(18:54):
So time in the saddle equals money. But you've got
to be able to prove that to the crowd in
a really short time. I hope this boy gets his
nine grand for that mule.
Speaker 6 (19:08):
What's the like? Prim prim mule? For age?
Speaker 5 (19:13):
Color?
Speaker 6 (19:15):
Size?
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Like?
Speaker 6 (19:16):
What the mule?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
That is the top sailing mule on Saturday? What do
you predict it's gonna be?
Speaker 1 (19:24):
The age has crept up over the years, but I
predicted to be over five or older, probably not over
ten or twelve. As a rule, the mule is gonna
stand fourteen three to fifteen one weigh one thousand pounds
and ask it. You ask it to do it, it does it.
It's gonna loap off right over its tracks if you
want it to. It's gonna ride, maybe not exactly pretty
(19:46):
one handed, graining ride, but it's gonna ride between the
bright rangs. For what I mean by that is for them,
it's gonna stay neck, is gonna stay between your bright
rings where it's at, and it's gonna work off your legs.
Look to some degree, be a gentle, very kind eye
on it. Just a nice meal.
Speaker 6 (20:01):
I mean, what about the colors? Color means anything?
Speaker 1 (20:04):
No, it means absolutely nothing to me. It's us to
some people. It does to some people, and I get it,
I understand it. My thing is in My older brother
taught me this one. He said, look at one with
color as if it had no color, and would you
still buy?
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Color doesn't mean much? And some even think that solid
mules you're better. But it's kind of like the vanity
of picking a car color. But if you're buying a mule,
you know, why not get one you like? And flashy mules,
which are ones that aren't solid but are multi colored,
often having some wide add on, often sell better at auction.
(20:40):
Mules are measured in hands, and one hand is equivalent
to four inches, so a fifteen hand mule is sixty
inches at the top of the shoulder. A mule can
be ridden at two or three years old, but it
reaches its prime often around eight years old, and has
a long working life, stretching to over twenty five years.
Speaker 6 (20:59):
Mules can live longer than horses.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
I once asking old coon hunter in Arkansas how long
he'd been married. He paused for a minute and he said, well,
I got my mule the year that we got married,
and that mule died just a couple of years ago,
when it was fifty four years old. Yeah, so I've
been married fifty seven years. That's a long time for
(21:22):
a mule to live and a long time to be married.
But I think we're getting ahead of ourselves here. Do
you even know what a mule is? This is Johnny Kelso,
Justin's father. He's kind of a legend in the mule community,
and he's been at this for a long time.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Well, a mule is a cross between a female horse
and a male donkey, and that gets the best of
both worlds. I would say, I don't care about a
donkey or a horse. But when you blind them together,
I like it real good. They've been used and known
for years. As far as a kindergarten knowing about it,
(22:06):
I'm not sure most of them think. If you drive
a pair of mules in a parade, they think.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
They're all horses.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
And I will tell them to look at the ears.
The ears are longer. The first thing you notice the
unique characteristics of a meal is to what you can
do with one. You can get the job done with ease,
with less feed, with less vet bills, They live longer,
and the list goes on. It's the economics that makes
(22:36):
a mule.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
But that same year you get a let's say, a
fifteen hundred pound horse in the field working a mule
weigh twelve fifty or thirteen hundred to do the same
work well. Gas consumption of flat better term on a
mule or a horse is not based on how efficient
the engine is. It's based on a body. Where you
feed an animal a percentage of your body weight. So
(23:02):
if this mule weighs less than that horse does, I
got to feed them less, get less of a here
to haul off. It's just it's less work in the
grant skip and he's in the same amount of same
amount of work, so more more work per pound of
that trap.
Speaker 6 (23:15):
Ecline flesh that trap.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I wanted to ask Max Bishop how mules compared to horses.
Speaker 5 (23:25):
They've got stronger feet.
Speaker 7 (23:26):
You know, if you're out in the rockies, in the
high country, you're after sheep hunting or all cutting or something.
You throw a shoe on a horse that might go
bad lane before you get back in. The mule probably
never notice. They eat less, They live and work probably
ten years longer than a horse. Their cardio is insane.
So you take two of the best horses you can
find out on a ranch and I'm gonna wear them out,
(23:47):
you know, just cardio.
Speaker 5 (23:49):
Was I think.
Speaker 7 (23:50):
I think they get more of their skeletal structure from
the horse, but they get the muscle structure more.
Speaker 5 (23:54):
For the donkey on average musto them.
Speaker 7 (23:56):
If you're up in the mountains, you're climbing, you're climbing
hills or something, and let's say it's real sketchy, the horse's.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
Answer is gonna be I'm gonna throw the gas to it.
Speaker 7 (24:05):
I'm gonna try to get to the top, and it's
either gonna look really good, or it's gonna flip over.
The mule is gonna want to downshift and pick its feet,
climb up, spear end, get on its knees if it
has to.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
And they're more full of drop.
Speaker 5 (24:17):
Minded on the average. And then a mule, if you look.
Speaker 7 (24:20):
At its eyes, it's set out more on the side
like a donkey instead of more forward. So the horse
sees two feet at a time. It seize the left
side of the right side of the mule can see
all four feet at the same time. So it gives
them an advantage of a little where they see when
they know they can see where they're putting.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
The foot.
Speaker 5 (24:40):
There.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
And they endure too.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
I mean they're just a hybrid between the dulky and
the horse, and they're and they endure.
Speaker 5 (24:49):
They just do.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
They take care of drought situations. They can stand the
heat better. They were used all through the South through
the years, and more horses than the noise, and that
had something to do with a climate.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Duck guess.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
But the meals have been used in the United States
for a long time.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
The common Knowledgy, the first Jack's brought to America, was
gifted to George Washington by the King of Spain. He
was gifted too. They weren't mammoth donkeys, they were mammo sized.
It's a different breed, the longer hair, I think curlier is.
It's a Spanish type donkey.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
It's believed that the first jack donkeys arrived in America
in seventeen eighty five to produce our first mules.
Speaker 6 (25:31):
But why mules? There's more.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Part of it is their temperament both ways. One is
the safety of it. If you're going to the mountains,
they're more sure fitted like their daddy was. You can't
hardly knock a donkey down. So they get their shere
food and it's from daddy. Because like we was talking earlier,
their shoulders are more in narrow, so you got less
replacement for their feet, and they walk more in the
lateral motions, so they can go where a goat goes
almost you know, because there where a horse stays out
(25:56):
square on the corners, which makes a horse in a
way more stable in some ways. For for opening performance
SAT kinds, they got more muscle and more masks to them.
The mule is leaner by comparison, my opinion, they're more
comfortable to ride as far as just the way the
saddle feels moving underneath you going trail riding, especially in
the rough country, is more comfortable on your whole body,
(26:19):
just based on the way a mule moves versus the
way horse moves. But some people don't want the mule
because they don't like the quote unquote stubborness. You almost
got to think a little harder sometimes riding that proper mule.
But people in the mountains on them for safety and endurance,
buy and large. You can get a little more out
of the mule without killing it. You can kill a
horse by you can run a horse to death. You
(26:41):
can't hardly kill them. I mean it's really hard to
ride them hard.
Speaker 6 (26:44):
Enough to kill it. Yeah, go away mechanisms inside of them.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
And it's the same with a feed. We keep a
lot of mules on feed in the wintertime. We sell
mules Lamish sell probably one hundred and fifty head a
year up there, So we go through a lot of
feeding on and we're gonna try off out for one
though we bought to be but three eight bells the mules.
We couldn't keep bedding to them because the protein so
much in an alfalfa. They knew they didn't need that much.
(27:08):
They eat the straw we bed them with, and the
hay lasted probably fifty percent longer than a normal grass
mail would, But they knew they had to absorb some
of that protein with something else for a horse or
the gorse itself on the alfalfa them. If I'm gonna
go cowboy all day, no, I know I probably need
that good bread cow horse that knows what he's done,
knows how to work a rope and all that. Can
(27:29):
I do it on my mule, yes I can. But
if you say we're gonna go hunting now with this fall,
I'm you're probably gonna get me on that horse. It's
fall gonna cost you money to make me ride a
horse up in the mountains. Sure, it's gonna take that
good bread cow horse up there. But my mule, yeah,
it's it's bred into him genetically to handle that brofer train.
And one another difference on a mule and horse. And
(27:51):
that's why I tell a lot of people. They'll ask
me what's the difference, I said, riding them wise, I said,
you could have mew and horse, start them the same way,
have the same I ride both of them and they
respond to everything just a lot. That's the difference, says
I said. If that trash bag that's one hundred yards
out there, that horse might not seeckly gets ten yards away.
That mule said it when he stepped down even one
(28:11):
hundred yards. He's watching.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
He knows what.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
He may not. He might not spook at it, but
he's already seen it. Yeah, and that's a that's a
bear out there. I'm confident that's a grizzly bear and
he's gonna eat me, you know what I mean. So
he may not be scared to get eaten. He may
walk right by it, but he's seen it, he knows
where it's at.
Speaker 5 (28:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
But mules are more of a there by far more
of a one person type animal versus a horse. And
it's almost a mental thing there there more apt to
be just more have to be yours where a horse
to be years is. I mean you, yes, you get
that one horse special might do that little extra for you,
but we'll still do everything very except meal is more
(28:48):
apt to do something for the person they like the most. Yeah,
I step on a mule that's broke, and when I
step on it with a you say authority confidence, whatever
whatever term you want to use it. They may not
check me very hard that my chick may be well,
I gotta, you know, encourage a little more to leave
the barn. Whatever the case is. You put an office
on it, don't eith Maybe get a little fear in
(29:08):
them because they don't know the mule. That mean wan
my buck with them, whereas a horse you're not gonna
have that. That horse gonna buck with me too, It's
not gonna Just so.
Speaker 6 (29:16):
There's there's more predictability in a horse.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
I think so. And he goes back to that quote
unquote stubborness of that mule's self preservation that if I
book him off, I don't have to do this.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
But me was also smart enough. No, Hey, this guy here,
he's sitting pretty firm in that saddle. I bet I
can't shake him.
Speaker 6 (29:34):
So, just to summarize what you're saying, because it's really interesting,
if you.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Have a good broke horse, you could put a kid
on there, or your grandma or the best cowboy in
the country, and that horse is probably gonna treat them
the same.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Same.
Speaker 6 (29:50):
If you take a twenty thousand dollars mule.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yep, that twenty thousand dollars mule be just like that
horse is well, okay, so that's why I'm saying that
mule all right.
Speaker 6 (29:58):
So maybe my, my, my, my example is not the best.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
No, it is because it's kind of the point.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
It's not a straightforward answer on which is better a
mule or a horse. It really matters what you're doing
and your experience level. What makes a mule special is
also the thing that can make them more difficult than
a horse. And going back to the question of why
there are probably twenty times as many horses as mules,
it's partly because horses are just easier to get along with,
(30:27):
but it's also because mules are sterile, meaning they can't
have offspring, so they're just harder to make. But to
summarize why people love mules, it's that a good one
is the safest, most comfortable ride in rough country period.
I've heard it said that you can train a horse
to run off a cliff, but a mule has so
(30:48):
much self protection in it often viewed as stubbornness, and
he ain't running off no cliff. So the safest place
to be is ride in that saddle and just to
be honest about it. A bad mule can be a
much bigger outlaw than a bad horse. It's complicated, but
I think Johnny probably sums it up best right here.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
If you're a mule person and you enjoy mules, you're
going to know that feeling and all those answers. But
it's hard to explain to your horse people.
Speaker 5 (31:22):
But if your horse people.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Ever get bit by the bug and they get them
a mule, then they can't explain it to their buddies either.
It's just a mule fame. We've thought about getting some
T shirt sometimes, you know, it's just a mule fan.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Insurance is high in today's world, my one.
Speaker 6 (31:48):
You can ride tomorrow with confidence. Right there.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
The Kelsos have had a lot of time to develop
their opinions on mules. Here's some family history.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Kelso's come from Scotland through Ireland Appalachians. To our knowledge,
they didn't stay in the Carolina's long. They come straight
to West Kentucky because they got here right around the
Jackson purchase time, which has been the eighteen twenties during
the New Indian Removal Act, when Andrew Jackson bought.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
The typical western tip of Kentucky. JB.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Kelse and his dad moved back there. JB fought the
Civil War and I sent you a picture through texts
of him holding a big black, white nose jack. He
finished the Civil War on top of Lookout Mountain. Come back,
and a lot of dark fire to back that was grown.
It still is grown right there where we're out. In
the winter time. He would haul he drive six mules
go to Banuka to the river front, hauling back up there,
(32:51):
and they bring dry goods back to all the little
country stores that were three or four.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
Miles apart in the area.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
So mules has been our family since and ever since
we've always had mules. By great grandaddy traded a little bit.
He raised family. My great grandmother died very young, so
he raised four kids and he would borro and trade.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
But he would trade mules.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
And back then you had you know, this is even
up to the sixties, you had a lot of people,
especially our country in the back country, still using mules
for agriculture purposes. So you had a lot of undesirable mules,
horses that would the slaughter. He would buy slaughter mules
to feed hogs with. And he had a mule that
he would use to skin those mules with. He would
(33:30):
hook that single tree to the hide, and she was
broken enough he could tell her.
Speaker 6 (33:34):
To buy mules to feed his hogs.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Yeah, because he could give three to four dollars for
the meal skin the mew once he needed hog feed,
because that's the feed that holds itself. It won't go
bad laws it's living, so it's fresh meat for the hogs.
And people that don't know hogs, I mean, you've been
around enough. Wht holes don't eat anything. I mean they're
worse than the goat. I mean they're gonna eat anything.
And he would hook that single tree in that hide
as he's skinning this mule, and he would tell her
(33:59):
to ease up, and she would lean in the collar,
not step lean and keep pressure.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
On that on that hide. So he cut it away.
But anyway, so my granddaddy grew up. When he was
a little boy and his daddy brought the first car home.
He was mad, he's, daddy, how in the world we're
gonna hook a horse up to this thing. I mean,
we just had that ingrained in us all our life,
you know. And then dad always traded livestock, farmed grew
hay grew tobacco, worked local sail bar and traded whatever anything.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
And this had been seventy nine. My granddad was visiting
the army buddy in Montana and they were out somewhere.
I don't know how they come back. This guy got
talked to him. Back then, if you wanted a mule,
you had to get at least to Missouri East to find.
I mean that's not Center wasn't out layer of breeders,
but for the most part, all the mules were in
the East. And he said, I need these mules. You know,
(34:48):
may get them. So yeah, my son can, dude, and
he backed out. Dad ended up going to Bishop, California
in nineteen seventy nine the first time, and it just
steam rolled from there, you know. Just we were trade
horses and cattle. Dad was there all through the eighties
and I mean I still remember him trading cattle through
the late eighties. But as time went on, it was
specialized more mules, and it was a niche market, but
(35:11):
it's what we pursued because you didn't have a lot
of guys trading just mules.
Speaker 6 (35:16):
See, y'all became known for mules.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Yes, Counsel yes, sir, me and my granddaddy's a great
granddaddy was J. B. Kelso, James bethdon Kelso, but he
was the first Kelso. We know they had mules, and
every generation since sins had mules, just something either made
a living farming with him or made to live in
trade them one or two. And I'm the seventh generation
So and my kids they messed with mules. Son, but
(35:38):
not Jodie's boy.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
He'll be the eight.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Generation right now that he's graduated college with a business act,
business career and he's trading mules.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
So he's eighth generation and out.
Speaker 5 (35:48):
Lie far Ago.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
I think Justin is underselling his kids. You remember the
story of his son, Jack Rope and that guy. But
his daughter is a heck of a rider and as
tough as nails too. I heard a story where a
few years ago that she got kicked by a mule
just before the auction, but rode the mule in the
arena that she was trying to sell and she sold it.
(36:13):
After that, she finally went to the hospital and found
that she had a lacerated liver. That's tough as nails, boys,
But we still haven't really learned how the Kelso's got
into this aid of mule sell. It's a very interesting
story that involves selling mules into Old Mexico.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
There was a guy named George Wynn from this area.
Hesh lived north here, I think, but he was an
older guy and he dealt with the Mexicans that would
come up and trade racehorses one time. This is a
race coarter horse, racehorse capital the world, right or no
calmut selling. You're going to have a track. You used
to have a track of sell sow the tracks still there.
I'm not even sure they racehorses there anymore, but a
lot of those horses raised in this area, and they'd
(36:54):
have a good quarter horse, sell in a shawne ol'cloma
called the triangle sell three days sailing heat up his
buddies get their horse sold to these Mexicans. I don't
know this for a fact. Probably that you call them
cartel now more likely. I don't know that they traded drows,
but it was there, had a lot of money, That's
what I'm trying to say it. I'm confident it probably
wasn't allegal. Yeah, but George with his ties, we were
(37:17):
selling mules, sending into Mexico some teams and stuff draft
mules down to their some plantations and stuff, and they
would use the mules.
Speaker 5 (37:24):
I don't I don't know why they used them.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
I was just a kid at the time, barely probably
enough drive, maybe starting for us.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
So these Mexican guys were coming here to buy racehorses
when they found y'all and said, hey, we need mules too,
And so y'all started selling mules to these high dollar guys,
taking them back to the.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Money they went through. George never met them. We actually sold.
George called Dad one time because we sent a lot
of man the jack stand there to bring some of
their marriors that raised their own mules. And he called, ease,
I need a sixteen hand white jack, not a great jack.
A white jack. Dad called everybody he knew in the
United States trying to find it. Say, I mean one
of the sixteen hand jack in the late eighties was
(37:59):
tough to find anyway, bling alone a white sixteen andred.
Speaker 6 (38:03):
That's a big jack.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Yes, that's a huge anyway. So this jack, Dad finally
finds me. It's forty five miles from our house. They
got raised jack stock. This jack end up going to
the Mexico City University as a mascot.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
The stories just keep getting more interesting. I bet you
wouldn't have guessed that these guys were potentially selling mules
to the cartel. Hard to say, but this guy, George
Wynn got the Kelso's, who are from Kentucky selling mules
in the Ada, Oklahoma area. Johnny Kelso actually had multiple
mule sales across the country at one time, but today
(38:38):
they've settled in on Ada.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Eight, Oklahoma is a nice little town. It's real centrally located,
like the people that lived in the West, and I'm
saying west, like Utah and Colorado.
Speaker 5 (38:52):
A lot of them people there.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
They could drive in there in the day and that
makes it better for him. And we've been I've been
doing business there since ninety three, two sales a year,
and we just keep a having it because we've made
so many friends contacts up there. There's people in that
country and a lot of people from Texas that comes
up there and their families, couples that say, we take
(39:18):
our vacations and come here and they camp and visit
with other people, and I just kind of hate not
to have it. Really, I've made so many friends over
the years and don't want to quit. I could, but
I don't want.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
I asked Justin why mules seem to be in such
demand right now. I was surprised by his answer.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Part of it is nobody's breaking these things anymore, starting
them as a as a hobbyer, even as a job.
They're doing it. There's trainers that I'm not saying that.
Speaker 5 (39:52):
Part of it is.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
We've made our kids softer. That's just a fact. I mean. Now,
I see like this generation coming up now a little
grittier than they was. And I'm not saying there's not
some thirty year old gritty kids out there. I'm not
meaning it that way, but because my kids all rodeoed
and watch these kids grow up, and there's some gritty
kids out there, that's all I mean. But as a whole,
how many kids, all right? How many kids farms that
(40:15):
you live with or grew up on a farm when
you was in school? Most of them? How many your
son bear? How many those? How many of those group
on are living on a farm. And so that translates
to the mule world too.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
So you don't have those kids like there's more, there's less,
there's less or less and more demand.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Yeah, well, out the demands increased as much as you
just don't have that quality of animal. And like I
used to buy a two or three year old, right
it for six months and reselling them because there will
be somebody to buy a two year old. That's going good.
They worked, They used to want to get the bucket
of it, you know, they didn't want to They didn't
want to do the rough stuff. They want to train
it theirself. Well, now everybody works, You work at office,
you're busier. You know, back then everybody worked on a
(40:56):
farm or you have them knock off of ups because
there's raining, go home rides and mules at home or something.
Speaker 6 (41:01):
So is there not like a mule revival though going on? Culturally?
Speaker 4 (41:07):
Oh it is.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
That's reason these older mules are treating so well.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Going back to the question of why the Kelso's like
mules better than horses, This story about sums it up.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
When I worked in California in nineteen ninety five, the
last trip I went on, and I'm bull headed, especially
and what how way worse billheaded when I was twenty
one years old and they had a new horse that
hadn't been in the rocks yet, So any of hem
rolls the rocks on him. He uh, four or fifth day,
he's were climbing up on a slick rock, just a
(41:46):
huge rock, and he slips and falls over backwards on
me and cracks two ribs, tears ligament in my left knee.
I get it's a horse. I get flown off that mountain.
I call my mom and dad the next day when
I get landed, and I'd just spent the night on
topic at nine thousand feet in a tent, which is
so luckily the trip had a bunch of nurses.
Speaker 6 (42:07):
Doctors broke up pretty bad.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
No, not hurt me, but they had enough drugs. I
think I could have flew off that mount with a helicopter,
but c XP come in the next day and flew
me off the mountain. And I called my dad the
next day to something what happened, and he said, that's
what you get for riding a blanket horse and hung
up on me. I'm two thousand miles from home, never
been that far from home in my life, hadn't seen
my parents in three.
Speaker 6 (42:29):
He's upset with you for riding a horse and not
of mules, right, he hung up on me.
Speaker 4 (42:33):
The auction is.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Coming to a close, and a fine looking Grula colored
mule named Della enters the arena. Grula is a kind
of tannish gray or what they call a mouse color,
which is rare and desirable in a mule. It's a female.
This is what they call a molly mule, and she's
out of Missouri. She's fourteen hands tall, ten years old,
(42:58):
and a young girl in a pink western shirt and
a huge cowboy hat is riding Della in circles around
the arena. It looks like she's well broke, safe and
clearly has what they call a good handle on her.
Speaker 6 (43:13):
The crowd is eating it up.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
I don't care where you gotta go, but you gotta
find them before you can buy.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
We don't know three and a half years you've done
bigger and bigger places.
Speaker 8 (43:35):
But I'm right now, God, you are right here.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
If it goes with that's a thirty five.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
You me.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
You don't.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
Get seventeen thou.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
For your wrong.
Speaker 6 (44:21):
E eighteen.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
I hope you understood that Della just sold for seventeen thousand,
five hundred dollars, and I hope you understood what the
auctioneer said before that. He said seventeen thousand dollars won't
get you a new truck or even buy you a
proper burial at the funeral home. And ended up selling
as the high selling mule for the twenty twenty five
(45:05):
Spring Ada, Oklahoma sale, and she was purchased by somebody
from Texas. This was a lot of fun and if
you're looking to go to a sale this year, AIDA's
got another sale coming this fall in early October, and
I'm sure you'll be seeing me at Ada again. I
(45:25):
know on this episode we've learned a ton about mules
and I can't thank you enough for listening to Bear
Grease and Brent's This Country Life podcast.
Speaker 6 (45:35):
Please leave us a review on iTunes, Share this podcast
with a friend.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Keep the wild places wild, because that's where the bears live.
Host
Clay Newcomb
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