Ep. 332: Render - Real Estate Scams, Short Pants, and The Southern Outdoorsmen - Bear Grease

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
My name is Klay Nukleman.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
This is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called
The Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper,
and look behind the scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast,
presented by f HF Gear, American Maid, purpose built hunting
and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as

(00:37):
the place as we explore. All Right, I have a
very very very strict agenda today, very strict agenda, and
I've got to.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Go through a list quickly so that we don't forget anything.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
Got it.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
We're going to talk about nobody talk. We're gonna talk
about real estate. I'm just gonna hit the high points.
I don't want to foreshadow too much.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
We're gonna hit. We're gonna talk about real estate.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
We're gonna talk about Ben Lee, We're gonna talk about
money laundering and cock fighting and Josh, you know how
much y'all love you?

Speaker 3 (01:16):
Right, I don't like how this is being set up.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
We're gonna start off the podcast by me asking you
why you decided to wear your your your kid clothes
today and not wear pants like a grown man.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
Well, let me explain this to you. Because there are
men who hunt and there are men who have real
jobs and they take people fishing. This is my this
is my work uniform. This is my kid closes, this
is my work uniform. And I'm you're lucky. I don't
have sandals on, flip flops on.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
I wouldn't.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
That's my work.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
I have that. So you look good. You look good.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
I know I look good.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
I don't know that you've ever shorts and a render.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
I've worn shorts and a render hundreds of times.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
You haven't.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
We're going back after this, guys, We're gonna sit down
and watch every render with gods.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
Tell us thinks there's something wrong with me because I
do not wear shorts.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
When I go to the gym.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
I tell us, wear shorts all the time.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
I know he usually when he's around me for more
than a couple of days, and I don't wear shorts.
He's he's trying to like psycho analyze me.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
It's like Clay, tell me about your childhood, and I
tell him. I tell him the story at the gym.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
I tell him the story about when I was at
the bow shop and Mina Arkansas. I remember the man's name.
I remember the man's name. I could tell you his name.
He's probably still alive, so I won't. And I remember
there was a picture of me on the wall with
a bow. I had won a bow tournament and he said,
who's the chubby little kid in the short paints?

Speaker 3 (03:00):
Are you that got it? Is that what Joannis was
able to like dig out of you over time?

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Actually, I don't know if I told you, but I
found it to be pretty pretty good advice for life.
So you look good, Josh, Thank you.

Speaker 3 (03:16):
Hey, I took a buddy. I took a buddy fishing recently.
And this guy is like a cowboy. I mean, he's
a real cowboy. And I was like, okay, let's go fishing.
And I go to pick him up and he comes
out in his wranglers and his cowboy boots and his
button up shirt, and I mean he was ready to
I'm surprised he didn't have spurs on.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
But fishing.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
We went fishing and he's in his pressed wranglers and
cowboy boots.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
I like it. I like it.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
So Josh is a trout fishing god. If you need,
if you need to go trout fishing in Arkansas, Josh
as your man.

Speaker 4 (03:47):
I'll be honest. My first that's why I thought.

Speaker 3 (03:49):
I was like, he gives off kind of guy the
guys working on, didn't you.

Speaker 4 (03:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
So we have two guests with us today.

Speaker 4 (03:56):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
We've been trying to do this for a while. This
is Jacob Myers. This is Andrew Maxwell. Yes, sir, from Alabama.
From Alabama, and so you guys are podcasters Southern Outdoorsman Podcast.

Speaker 4 (04:09):
Yeah, it's been a long, crazy journey. It's been fun.
Glad to find will be here. We have talked about
this for a.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
While, ye have.

Speaker 5 (04:15):
Yeah, I had just a quick note on the shorts.
H Jacob almost wore shorts and flip flops this morning.
He saw me putting on these jeans and he's like,
you're wearing jeans. I'm like, yeah, I'm grown up.

Speaker 4 (04:27):
You put those We just got I just got back
from fishing in Venice and we're tuna fishing for a
couple of days. And I'm like, that's the first time
I woren flip flops in years. And I'm like, man,
I'm like I'm kind of feeling it. I was, Yeah, anyway,
so I'm like, probably not, shouldn't wear that today. Plus
i'd be freezing.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
You would have had an advocate man.

Speaker 4 (04:45):
Josh, I would know you're on my side and I
would have done it.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, well it is comfortable, but it's just what do
you wear to the gym?

Speaker 1 (04:53):
I do wear shorts at the gym.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
You're gonna have like paparazzi now trying to get pictures
of you and shorts.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah, well, you know, just functional. Functional, that's what it's
got to be. Well, we're gonna we're gonna, we're gonna
talk about We're gonna talk. We're gonna talk about what
you guys do. But I've got to go through my list.
We got to talk about real estate. I want to
tell y'all story. I heard this yesterday. Tell me if
you've ever heard anything like this, this happened to. This
is not like an internet story. This happened to my friends.

(05:20):
Like I know the people this happened to, and I
actually heard the story from their their daughter, So like
the story happened.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
Just like this.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
There was a piece of land, piece of landlocked property
in a state that borders Arkansas, piece of landlocked hunting
pop property that's been in this family for several generations.
No really bad access, no houses, It was just a
hunting property. Guys had trail cameras out there. There's a
group of the family that had trail cameras. They randomly

(05:54):
in May. They still had batteries in their trail cameras
from deer season and uh. One of the family members
who lived out of state just decided to check his
cellar ca cam, pulls it up and sees a truck
drive past the gate. Bear, we go, holler at that dog, yep,

(06:16):
give them, give him a good one. We're leaving this in.
This is just part of life. You tell a lot
about a man by the way hollers his dog.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
See.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
So he he sees a truck drive by, and he
texts his relative says, hey, I like your new truck.
And the guy goes, my new truck, what you talking about?
And he said, a white truck just drove by.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
YadA YadA. Well, they don't think much about it.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
They go out there and put a padlock on the
gate or something, and two days later, two trucks drive
by and they get the license plate and they call
the sheriff and they say, who is this person. They're
trespassing on our land. The sheriff runs the plate and
it's a local realtor who's in on this land, And
he goes, what are y'all doing in there? And the

(07:05):
realtor goes, is a small town. They kind of knew
each other, you know. And the realtor goes, sheriff, that
land is being sold and we close in five hours.
And the sheriff calls the family and goes, is your
land for sale? And the guy goes, no, the land

(07:29):
is not for sale. What are you talking about? And
they say, Mark, you know whoever, this is a good realtor.
They're going to a closing in five hours on that
you know, one hundred and sixty acres or something. And
it is a scam where people from somewhere find like

(07:52):
obscure land with nobody living on it, that has tax
records that you know, somehow they're able to be like,
nobody's paying attention to this land. You know, it's been
in the family for generations. That's one thing where like
they just think like people have forgotten or people have
moved off, like if it changed hands three years ago,
you know, somebody's paying attention. And they forge all the

(08:18):
documents put it up for sale on out of state websites,
so it wasn't for sale in the state that it
was in, and somebody from some family from Colorado was
going to buy the land and move there and build
a house.

Speaker 3 (08:35):
That's crazy.

Speaker 4 (08:37):
So I've heard that on a podcast and on social
media that that's happening right now. So that's really interesting
that you just had that story, Yeah, because I'm like,
I haven't personally heard of anybody that had it happen
to them. But that's insane.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
How do I get in on this?

Speaker 2 (08:51):
That brings up money laundering that is on the list,
But that's crazy. It truly is an And they were
able to stop the closing obviously, but they they were
told that if it had gone through and the money
was like completely lost, that they probably would have had

(09:14):
to have fought like in court to I mean, it
would have been a massive ordeal between the people that
bought the land. Like it seems to me like it'd
be like, well, you just flush your money down the toilet,
like this is our land. But they apparently it would
have been harder than that, which would have just mean.
But the realtor wasn't in on it, no, that's my understanding.

Speaker 3 (09:36):
So who's benefiting, Like, how was that money getting back
to the people.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
That had well, i mean they're the seller seller the.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
Crook, the crooked seller interest to just get the money
and then I'm sure they got some elaborate plan to
make it disappear.

Speaker 3 (09:53):
Wow, that's crazy.

Speaker 5 (09:54):
What a nightmare for the people they were trying to
buy it too, because what if you bought that land
and then one.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Shows up and they're like no, Well, I mean they're
the people that would lose.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
I mean, because they're the ones that would have all
the money would be gone. So anyway, I thought that
was an astonishing story, just crazy.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
But yeah, I thought about.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
I mean, I can't imagine a human that could live
with that kind of I mean, we all know there's
crooks and thieves in the world, but like you think
about some guy just like you passing Walmart that you
don't know, Yeah, that would have stolen two hundred and
fifty thousand dollars from somebody, just literally stole it from them.
I mean somebody it was. It was It wasn't like

(10:38):
some overseas deal. It was somebody from here that really
knew the system.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
Nobody's stealing two undred and fifty thousand dollars from me.
I can tell you that because I ain't got.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
Well, okay, that's part one. That's part one. This is
this is part two. Do you are you guys familiar
with Ben Lee? Oh yeah, y'all would be for me Alabama?

Speaker 1 (11:00):
Oh yeah, very familiar. What's Ben Lee's reputation in Alabama?

Speaker 5 (11:04):
Everybody who's like a died in the world turkey hunter
knows like all the Ben Lee stories.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, and he's like an icon in Alabama.

Speaker 5 (11:12):
Almost every single person we interviewed in Alabama this year
about turkey hunting brought up.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
Ben Rogers Lee, all of them.

Speaker 5 (11:18):
And then we found out that his son is still
living and I think still selling some of his turkey calls,
and so we're like, we ought to track him down
really and.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
Get him on the show. But yeah, he's he's huge. Yeah, yeah,
is he is? His reputation good long pause? Yeah, I
mean with the.

Speaker 5 (11:36):
Turkey hunters, Yeah, I don't know with some of the
maybe state officials.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:41):
Yeah. And that's the thing, and like, we know some
guys who hunted a lot with Ben Lee and did
a lot of seminars with him, and he said he'd
a't you know know the stories he ever told supposedly
were true. But he liked to move, yeah, and move
a lot of stuff.

Speaker 5 (11:54):
Around, Like he'd be doing seminars and like one of
his like jokes he was doing the seminars would be
like the best turkey so is a no trespassing sign
or a posted sign, and like there's a story about
him saying that, and the director of Wildlife in Freshwater.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Was sitting in the audience. He just got up and
walked out, you know. So there's a lot of stories
like that.

Speaker 4 (12:11):
Yeah, we're having spray paint tennis shoes with some white
nikes or white new balances of spray paint and green
just so you could run if you know that Layne
ever finds out you're on the property. Stuff like that
where someone of the story.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah, yeah, he was pretty rough, rough around the edges.

Speaker 5 (12:25):
So yeah, apparently the turkey poaching culture goes way back
in the Southeast apparently.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Well, so we did an episode a couple episodes back.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
It was called Confessions of a Former Outlaw.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
So we interviewed this guy who had hunted with Ben
Lee and had spent quite a bit of time with him.
And our guy was a former outlaw, had a real
shift in his life, and that was kind of the story.
But he started talking about Ben Lee and and somebody.

Speaker 3 (12:54):
Well Aaron Mansfield.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
Aaron Mansfield. Where is he from?

Speaker 3 (13:00):
Probably Ala, Alabama?

Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yeah, Aaron Mansfield from Alabama. Just a listener sent me
this is a Ben Lee box call, which these are
hard come by, and it's.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
That one signed, that one apparently belonged to Ben Lee,
like that was one of his calls and he gave
it away.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
Wow, he gave it, just just sent it to me.
But sounds good. I mean I didn't chalco it. I
just like picked it up and it actually sounds really good.
It's called a twin hen because I think the other
side sounds quite a bit different.

Speaker 3 (13:41):
He also he you guys need to check him out.
This a PM Woodworks.

Speaker 5 (13:46):
Yeah, he made us two nets. Actually I was about
to say that he's from Georgia. That's right, I'm talking
about the same person.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
But yeah, yeah, he makes these beautiful hand nets man
all custom made with en lay for the fishermen in
the group.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
So yeah, he's a great guy.

Speaker 5 (14:03):
We met him at a trade show and yeah, he said,
I'm looking forward to meeting them.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah, he's a great guy man.

Speaker 4 (14:08):
Okay, see he made us some nets, and I feel
bad because we don't trail. We don't have trout in Alabama.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
Really, I use it on some you can send them
to me.

Speaker 4 (14:16):
And I feel bad about using a crappie fishing because
he's got a troutling laden in mine. And I'm like, dude,
I just feel I feel terrible using this for a
different species.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, very talented, beautiful stuff. What else is on my list?
I've lost the list?

Speaker 3 (14:30):
You lost the list of cock fighting?

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Well, okay, it's just come.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
Up a lot lately, and you want to go in
on some.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
I would like.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
To have fighting roosters. I don't want to gamble. I
don't want to fight them.

Speaker 4 (14:49):
You just want to have them.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
They're They're beautiful, beautiful animals. And I could take you
about any direction from right here?

Speaker 1 (14:57):
Is probably is it? Is it the same way in
Alabama where you'll see p people that are raising fighting.

Speaker 4 (15:01):
Yeah, I guess Tayler Parks and Albaim. I could take
you to if you want some.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah, well, I don't want to fight. I don't want
people to be confused. Like people could hear me talking
about outlaws and think Clay's an outlaw. I'm not perfect,
but I'm the furthest thing from an outlaw. You might
think of my interesting cockfighting as like, oh, Clay wants
to cockfight. Nope, I don't. I just think there. I
think it's I think it's an interesting sport and it

(15:28):
it it it. It's just been coming up a lot.
So I'm working on in a potential episode about about
cock fighting. I'd listen to that because there's some there's some.
I mean, it's a it's it's terrible, Like I'm not
I'm not trying to say that it's good, but uh so.

Speaker 3 (15:46):
Uh are we going to have like voices like like
the the voice changing thing like they do on these
expose as. Yeah, that'd be.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
Awesome, Yeah, John Doe. Yeah wait, so what's the different?
They looked different?

Speaker 5 (16:01):
Are you there's around just big, big, pretty roosters. Okay,
you know they like aggressive to people, get you, like
a home defense chicken.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
But that's pretty much good.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
I think they're pretty much aggressive to anything.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, you're you're probably right about that.

Speaker 3 (16:14):
There used to be a there used to be a
turkey here on this property.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
That aggressive mean foul on this place.

Speaker 3 (16:22):
I mean if you, if you showed any kind of
weakness at all, that that tom would come and just
attack you. If you were a female, it was coming
after you. When so we had it was a wild turkey.

Speaker 2 (16:35):
It was we didn't like gather from the while, but
it was bought as an Eastern wild turkey.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
It was tame.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
We started out with seven and and we ended up
with like three. And so it was a gang of
jakes that would running around our house free. We just
let them run free. And uh, there was a gentleman
that came here quite often, dear friend of ours, that
had had had a stroke and limped really bad.

Speaker 3 (16:59):
If you twisted your ankle.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
And man, when he would get out of the car
like a normal person get out of the car, turkey
didn't didn't didn't do anything when it saw that guy limping,
they would just just come.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
Over there and stretch. They would attack him.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
It's terrible.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
And then when Missy's grandmother would come over here, no
white haired lady, you know, kind of slow. When little
kids would come over here. If a little kid would
get out of the car and run out in front
to the house before their parents, it'd be on people's

(17:42):
cars when they left. You know, they like come in
the house and they'd come back.

Speaker 3 (17:46):
Out smoking cigarettes, turkeys on their car, you know, like
scratching up the pain.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Like, hey, we're really sorry about the turkeys.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
Anyway, they ended up getting killed by our neighbors actually
shot him thinking they were wild turkeys for like half
a mile from there. It was a it was a
different era. You guys both from Alabama. Did you did

(18:19):
you grow up in Alabama?

Speaker 4 (18:20):
Jacob? Yeah, I did. I've lived all over the place,
book from Alabama.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yes, what's your like?

Speaker 2 (18:25):
Tell me about your well, first of all, y'all full
time podcasting, yep, both of you. Yep, that's that's pretty incredible.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
Yeah, that's good.

Speaker 4 (18:35):
It's been a cool journey. It's been. It's been. It
was never a goal first off, Never a goal. Just
kind of happened. So it was like the decision of
there was one point where we're like, either when you
change something with the podcasts, or we might not be
able to continue the podcast because of how much time
was taken with our careers. Yeah, and I made the decision.
Like five years ago, I drew an eye with Lasus

(18:57):
Musslier Tag and ended up losing my pt O time
at work. Some stuff had happened, and uh, clocking in
clocking out stuff anyways, so.

Speaker 1 (19:05):
You didn't clock in or clock out for seven months.

Speaker 4 (19:07):
I was, I was, I was, I was present and
I was. I was working at a my career. I
was a Hunderscent commissioned so like, I was there making
What did you do? So I was working in the.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
Fun I asked you the same question.

Speaker 4 (19:18):
So I sold pre arrangements for funeral arrangements.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
Oh yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 4 (19:23):
So that's what I did for a handful of years.
And uh, anyways, so I was there doing what I
needed to do. But anyways, just wasn't going through the
whole clock in clock out since I lost my PTO time.
So I drew that tag. And it was getting to
like second week in November and the hunt started in December,
and I'm like, I'm not not going. And I talked
to Andrew. I was like, hey, man, like, you know,

(19:44):
talking some financials with the podcast, and uh, I thought
I had talked to you previously Andrew about like maybe leaving,
And all of a sudden, like I was like I
just got to go, Like if it doesn't work out,
I had money saved. If it doesn't work out, I'll
just go back into that career path or get back
into sales. I would love sales, and it I ended
up going going out there killing a buck, spent like
twelve days out there, killed a buck, came back and

(20:05):
never looked.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
Back, and that was twenty You quit before you left?

Speaker 4 (20:09):
Yeah? I quit? Yeah, correct, quit the funeral home. Quit
the funeral home and never been back. Been doing the
podcast for the last five.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
Are are you Are you okay talking about your career
in the funeral industry.

Speaker 4 (20:18):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Absolutely okay, because that's way more interesting than anything that's happened.

Speaker 5 (20:23):
Yeah, Andrew helped me here, I got I got, I
got details to add to this.

Speaker 4 (20:27):
Well.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
I've always when I when I've been to funerals and
seen people there, I've always wondered, how did you get here? Like,
how did you choose this? How did you how did
you get in the funeral industry?

Speaker 4 (20:41):
So I was doing previously before that was in medical sales,
and I'd lived in Nashville, just.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Went to the dark side.

Speaker 4 (20:52):
I've never looked at it a good point.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
It's like, we're either going to help people live or
we're going to help them when they're dead.

Speaker 4 (20:58):
Okay, well that's one way to look at So I
was doing that for I did that for a couple
of years. I was living in Nashville, then at transferred
to Atlanta, Georgia, and then moved back to Birmingham. When
I got back to Birmingham, wasn't working for the company
anymore and I was trying to find something else sales wise,
and it just came across like it was. A friend
of a friend was talking about it, and I'm like,
because you had to be a licensed insurance agent in order.

(21:19):
Because how the policies are held, it's held through whole
life policy, so that's how the funding goes into the
count so that when you pass away, everything's taken care of.
So I was like, oh, that's kind of interesting. I
was thinking about doing insurance anyway. So I went and
applied that interview and they're like, yeah, you're hired. Started
talking to people, and one thing I liked about more
so than when I was doing medical industry. In the
medical space, I was talking to market imaging directors at

(21:41):
hospitals and stuff, and it wasn't very personable. It was
very much bottom line, who can get me a certain
piece of equipment at a certain price, and that was it.
When I was in the funeral side of everything, it
was very much like you built relationships with everybody you
were working with and helping them through hard times and
make sure everything was taking care of. I was not
Andrew keeps joking. I was a date a grave digger,
which I was not. Never touched that, never touched, never

(22:04):
touched the show, anything like that. I was always working
with the spouses and everything else in fam members. I
really enjoyed it. But I did that for a handful
of years. So I mean, I don't know what all
you want to get in.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
You answer my question, and I knew there. I knew
there would be a real answer. But that that I
like it that you were you actually saw it as
you were helping people that were in a difficult time
in the relationship. Yeah, because I'm amazed at I mean,
there's something about human death that's close to you that

(22:36):
alters your life. I mean that's an obvious statement, like
people dying is significant in your life, but even even
beyond that, like, uh, I like for my kids to
go with.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
Me to funerals.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
I think sometimes people are like, I'll protect the kids
from that we're gonna go. I've always been like, come on,
let's go. Yeah, And it's just like a unique moment
in people's lives.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
So interesting, very interesting.

Speaker 4 (23:01):
It was one of those things, like getting dealt with
so many hard situations, you know, all kinds of stuff,
you know, children passing away, very elgly people pass away,
to everybody in between, and working with families, it was.
It was tough to work in that environment, but it
was something that at the end of the day, making
sure that just the family was taken care of and

(23:23):
everything about the arrangements were situated in a way that
gave them more peace of mind was fulfilling on that.
But it was, dude, it was a lot, but it
was one of those things. So I was doing that
and the problem with that career path a problem. But
one aspect of it was you were working typically six
days a week, and then every other week you would

(23:43):
work thirteen days straight. You'd work a whole weekend in
the whole falling week as well, so it did not
lean in very much time at all. Then. I think
the couple of years I was there, three years I
was there, I probably hunted a total of maybe ten
eight to ten times a whole dear season and we
have a very long deer season in Alabama. And after
a while to get to the point where it's hard
for me to do the podcast, Like I was living
my life through the podcast interviewing these guys. I got

(24:05):
a hunt all the time, and I wasn't getting to
be able to do that. And finally, you know, with
the Iowa Tay get me like, okay, I'm bouncing.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
And so what year was that?

Speaker 4 (24:14):
That was twenty twenty? Was twenty twenty? Maybe I think
it was twenty twenty. I have no idea it was
twenty that's want to kill that first year is twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
So when did y'all start your podcast?

Speaker 5 (24:25):
The Southern Outdoorsman started in October twenty seventeen.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
We're about to go to Wyoming.

Speaker 5 (24:32):
Me and Jacober Buddies were both I think we were
both in college at the time.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
He might have just dropped out of college.

Speaker 4 (24:37):
I was out of college and.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
Oh he dropped out of colle Oh that's very interesting. Yeah,
he was trying to get me to drop out too.

Speaker 5 (24:42):
He's like, hey, there's this medical sales thing you ought
to I used to work at a bow shop in
Birmingham and he came over there and he was there
for like four hours talking to.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
Me on my shift.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
He's like, dude, you heed drop out and do this.
I didn't do it. But anyways, Yeah, what was the
question I forgot?

Speaker 4 (24:56):
Well, when we start the podcast.

Speaker 5 (24:58):
Yeah, it was October twenty seven, started the website and
I was doing it for like a blog because I
wanted to get into outdoor right in twenty seventeen, twenty seventeen,
and I was like, I don't know, eighteen or nineteen,
I had like no business writing for like a field
and stream type magazine, but I was writing for local
magazines at home, and I was like, well, I just

(25:18):
need somethinghere. I can put stuff out there and like
publish my own stuff and get reps and kind of
build a portfolio. So I started that over the next
couple of months, and people were like, hey, I ought
to do a podcast because we all liked, you know,
Wired to Hunt and a Meat Eater and people like that.
We listened to those, but there was nothing for the Southeast,
and so like, we ought to start something. And I
approached Jacob about it and he was like absolutely not

(25:42):
not interested. And after a couple months, I wore him
down and in February twenty eighteen we started the actual podcast.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
Okay, yeah, fifty dollars microphone from Amazon.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
I remember when y'all started because of your name stood
out to me because at the time there was so
little media, podcast.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
Media, specifically coming out the Southeast. Yeah, real, wasn't it.
Oh yeah right?

Speaker 5 (26:03):
Oh yeah No, that's why we started it. I mean
because we we wanted something. Like I mentioned Wired to Hunt.
I enjoyed his show a lot and he did a
great job with it. But he was talking to so
many guys in like Iowa, Michigan and Midwestern Yeah, and
they're talking about cornfields. I'm like, I don't have a
cornfield within fifty miles of my house. It's all it's
pine farms, it's all pine plantations. So we just needed

(26:24):
we just tried to go create what we wish was
already there essentially what we did Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
Do you guys ever think about what like so they'll
look back in history at some point should the earth persist,
and they'll say, Wow, podcasts really blew up right there
because they have They're like every like, everybody's got a podcast,
Like it's like this flooded market.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
What what service I mean?

Speaker 2 (26:56):
And I know it's like you could say, well, you know,
we relay information, But have you ever thought about, like
on a broader scale, the impacts of podcasts, like what
is it?

Speaker 1 (27:07):
What will they say about us at some point?

Speaker 4 (27:09):
Well, it depends, but like, the one thing about podcasts
is a way to be able to get out information
very very quickly to the masses as long as the
masses find that show, no matter what the conversation is.
I get a lot of my news from some of
the different podcasts and how quick they can turn stuff around. Yeah,
and a lot of some of the hosts I listen to,
they don't really have a certain lean to it. They
just kind of tell you how it is, which is

(27:29):
really nice. But even the outdoor space, you're able to
get so much information out from hopefully reputable individuals and
people that have a lot of experience that you can
share that with other people and help shorten learning curse.
And that's really what we do. We've focused very much
on the educational side of everything. But I mean, like
you said, you know, a couple hundred years from now
or whenever they start talking about you know, podcast is
still a thing or a conversation, and maybe they change

(27:51):
to a different name. It would be interesting to kind
of see, how ever, things progress, because the one thing
we've noticed in the last three four years is that
the move we've bent towards a video podcast. This is
not just audio and people are now you know, they're
not they don't have a TV there, they're not subscribed
to cable TV or anything like that. They're watching on YouTube.

(28:13):
They just have YouTube at the house. And if you've
listened to podcasts or of watching stuff on YouTube, and
now with podcasts being on YouTube, people can watch at
the house. And that's the thing that's really blowing us away.
So how many people are actually watching the show, not
just listening to the show?

Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah? Yeah.

Speaker 5 (28:25):
Also with us specifically, we try to focus a lot
on just woodsmanship, and I don't know, some people call
it the old fashion wave of hunting with a lot
of people. We try to interview a lot of older
people for that exact reason, like fifty plus, you know,
especially like really older people, Like we've had a couple.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
Of eighty year old guys on the podcast.

Speaker 5 (28:43):
Yeah, And I like to think that one day people
will look back at that, and it's kind of like
an archive of what was hunting like in the sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties,
early two thousands, especially now with how technology is, I mean,
who knows what it's going to look like in twenty
thirty years, and so I feel like we're kind of
preserving that a little bit.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
Yeah, you know what, there's never been access to to
this type of information before in society, you know, like
like that's that's to me, what's interesting about podcasts. I
don't take I don't, I like, don't take any any
like pride in being a podcaster, Like I don't like

(29:19):
to I'm not a podcaster, like I don't.

Speaker 4 (29:22):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
To me, that's not a it's like being a used
car salesman almost, like I don't. But the access to
information and and the the informality of human conversation being
recorded is unprecedented. I mean, like all media from all
all time has been curated, like like I mean think

(29:48):
about the nineteen sixties. You could not have consumed media
that wasn't planned intentional. I mean, whether it was a
game show or a radio show or tell.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
But like like.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
Inform normal human communication, Like there's something to it.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
That's that's significant.

Speaker 4 (30:06):
Well, that and also not having a time constraint put
to it, like if it's on television, you know, depending
on what the show is, you know, it might be
a quick little interview with somebody for eight minutes and
then they're off to the next subject. On podcasts, I mean,
you can run as long as you want. We don't
do this anymore, but there was times back in the day.
We've had multiple five hour long podcasts, Oh my lord,
and it was sit down Interviewmaron I mean, and looking

(30:28):
back at it, I'm like we were insane.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
I don't know how many people actually got to the end.

Speaker 4 (30:32):
I don't know. I don't know, but it's their for them.
If they want to go check it out, we'll see,
we see a lot of the stuff we did with
the podcast was very much for me and Andrew as
in like we were curious talk to these people and
curious getting some questions answered and learning more about the guests.
And it was never so much like, oh, what would
do good with the audience, is very much like what
would we like to hear and what are we interested in.
If the audience mimics that, then great, If they don't

(30:54):
that's perfectly fine too, they don't have to. And yeah,
it's that's how we've rent it for the last eight
and a half years. Now we don't do the five
hour podcast anymore, but we have done that in the.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
So, Andrew, how did you get You kind of told
us a little bit how you got into us.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
But what career? What obscure careers have you had in
your life?

Speaker 5 (31:11):
I mean in college, I just I worked at that
bow shop. I did the night shift home depot.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
What'd you go to college for?

Speaker 5 (31:17):
I was trying to go for forestry. Oh, I got
a good story for you about that. Actually, I was
going to go to Auburn for forestry, and I went
to a community college in Birmingham to get all my
core class out of the way because it's cheaper and
I could live at home. And uh so I was
doing that and for summer for forestry at Auburn, you
have to do a summer practicum before you go into
your junior and senior year. So you go and it's

(31:37):
kind of like the like forestry boot camp or whatever.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
And uh it was.

Speaker 5 (31:42):
My last semester before I was supposed to go to practicum,
and I had this music appreciation class that I had to,
you know, go do because they make you do that.
And it was in Turkey season, and uh, I thought
the final was on Thursday, and so on Tuesday I
went Turkey hunting and then I showed up Thursday and

(32:03):
there was nobody there and I missed my final and
so I failed and that lowered my GPA and I
couldn't get into forestry school. So no, yeah, and then
I had to spend a year like taking throwaway classes
to get my GPA back up.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
So I just started right there. Who in your life
did you have to tell that story to? And they
were real disappointed in you.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
My mom, she was thrilled. She was just thrilled.

Speaker 5 (32:27):
So so then when I got to Auburn, they had
they just introduced a new program called gs Spatial and
Environmental Informatics. Makes me sound smarter than I really am,
but it's just GIS maps data in like with forestry
and ecology. So I was like, well, I like maps,

(32:47):
I'll do that. And I didn't have to go to
the summer practicum so I could get back into the
school forestry earlier.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
So I went to the School Forestry and did that.

Speaker 5 (32:55):
And then when I graduated, I ended up I was
trying to go into some kind of wildlife for forestry
related field, and I ended up getting a job doing
you know, I called Before You Dig.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Eight one to one.

Speaker 5 (33:04):
Okay, I was doing that in Alabama, and I was
the GIS guy for both.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
Of these guys. Both these guys are into digging. So yeah,
I managed a database. I sat behind a computer. Okay,
how long did you do that? Like four years? Four
and a half years.

Speaker 5 (33:20):
When I got out of college, I started doing that,
and that was when the podcast was starting to get serious.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
And I graduated college in twenty twenty.

Speaker 5 (33:27):
And right after I graduated when Jacob quit at his
job and started doing the podcast full time. And so
I was like, you know what, I'm just going to
stay at this job until I can go full time.
And so that's what I did, and I went full
time last year. Took me a little longer because.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
Like, oh, so you were in full time, you were
full time first a couple of years taking it.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
I was thinking it was the other way. Yeah, no, no, no, no,
he went full time first, old single prangle man.

Speaker 4 (33:52):
I saved money and I was living dirt poor for
a while.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
Actually, yeah, that's one thing I was gonna serious.

Speaker 4 (33:57):
Jacob didn't.

Speaker 5 (33:58):
He didn't like not to get in to his finances
or anything, but he took how much money do you have, dude?
He took a gigantic pay cut. I don't want to
say what he made the first two years, but it
was not a lot, because I don't even know how
he lived on it.

Speaker 4 (34:12):
Yeah, because i'd say considerably at that last job.

Speaker 5 (34:16):
But we're making money with the podcast, but very like
not enough money for like. I didn't think either one
of us equip but then he just did. I was like,
we'll figure it out. Hey, Pembur and JULLI, yeah, that's
deer meat.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
I'd marry you for that, man, I mean it.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
You know, some people people talk about people that are
in the outdoor industry full time, and there's sacrifices.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
I mean there's been.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
I'm sure there's been good stuff that's happened to y'all
that wasn't your fault, you know. I mean, something just
good happened on its own. I know that's been the
way for me. I can't take credit for being able
to do what I'm passionate about, but there are conscious
sacrifices that you made that got you where you're at today.

Speaker 4 (34:59):
Well, and that's my We've had conversations with like Couz Strickland.
We were talking to him about that, and he's like, everybody,
it's in the space. If they started taking it seriously,
they had to make some kind of sacrifice, like that
is a leap of faith because you don't know. I mean,
and I had the confidence. I'm like, if it doesn't
work out, I'm just going to go back to doing
what I was doing before hanging out. Was good at
it and just can get back into that space. But

(35:20):
it was one of those things that once you got
into it and you started making more content. I'm not
saying everybody try to go out and be a content
producer or creator, because I don't even think of it
that way. I look at like we're trying to add
value now to people's lives and help shortened learning curves.
That's like really what we're trying to do, and also
telling stories and adding some entertainment and mixed into it.
But I mean, every time we do this, like we're

(35:41):
traveling right now for nine days interviewing a bunch of people,
it doesn't really feel like work. I mean, it's a
lot of work, especially behind the scenes and the editing
and the producing and all that kind of stuff, but
we enjoy it, I mean to the utmost degree. And Andrew. So, Andrew,
I'm a little bit different. So I'm not married, don't
have kids. Andrew's got a kid to your old daughter,
and he's been married now for I don't want to
put you on the spot because if you might listen
to this.

Speaker 5 (36:00):
Episode, like six years, but right around six years, that's good,
that's good.

Speaker 4 (36:05):
You know. So he so he was really trying to
work with her on making sure that we can get
everything taken care of so that he could go full time.
And then she was actually just now able to quit
her job to be a full time stay at home
on which has been awesome.

Speaker 5 (36:17):
Oh that's incredible. Yeah, man, American dream Baby, that's great.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
Now y'all been doing this for eight years together, y'all
have navigated partnership.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
I don't I don't really know. I don't I don't
I don't know this, but I know this. How how
do y'all? Usually partnerships don't work out.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
Usually if like two people go into media together as like,
you know, I want to say equals usually that breaks up.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
Anything with more than one.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
Is there any Is there any mediation?

Speaker 2 (36:49):
The reason I bring it up, is there any mediation
that you need me and Josh to do? Between guys,
I'm going to have you go first. Tell us the
thing you hate most about Andre. Now it's a serious question.
They have you How do y'all manage us? Just like
being partners?

Speaker 4 (37:09):
So we We've heard that from multiple other people in
space that have done the same thing. Like, dude, it
never worked out. A lot of it I think comes
down to personality types and also or both of you
bought in to the same level. Because if one's real
casual one's trying to take it real serious, it's not
gonna work. If both are super serious the point that
they want to do it their own way, it's not
gonna work. The thing about me and Andrew is it's

(37:30):
a mix of like we take this very very seriously,
but also like we're both very humble and we'll listen
to each other. Like Andrew has plenty of ideas. I'm like,
that's fine, Like dude, I'm they don't have to be
my way and same thing by versus or vice versa.
So I think you have to have that in order
to make it, because that is is true. I mean
Andrew's wife jokes jokes with us all the time that
like it's almost like me and him in a marriage,
because like we spend so much time together and working

(37:52):
together that like just like a marriage, like you're gonna
have arguments and stuff, but you gotta be able to
work past it. And same thing with a business partner
that you're working a ton with.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
Yeah, that's trying to what I was about to say.

Speaker 5 (38:01):
It's like a marriage, and it's just like you know,
sometimes like I slack and he has to pull the weight.
Sometimes he slacks and I have to pull the weight,
And you just have to be willing to do that
with somebody. Yeah, and be forgiving about it, like whenever
the other person messes up or whatever, because I mean
eight years, I mean we've had our share of disagreements
and stuff.

Speaker 4 (38:18):
But I got a good story on that.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Oh God.

Speaker 4 (38:20):
So the second time I went to Iowa, okay, I
want it theirs. Oh anyways, so this is it was.
I was there for fourteen days okay, and completely neglected
everything I had to do for the podcast. And Andrew
called me a couples and he was living I'm talking
about upset man and after because I'm like I was

(38:42):
so focused on killing a big buck and I was
hoping with my uncle and we were driving me. We
were hunting, hunting a bunch of the evening, we were scouting,
bird hunting. I got a bird dog. We were hunting
quil hunt in the mornings and the deer hunting the afternoons,
late season. And when I got back me Andre Andrew
had a conversation with me because he's like, dude, you
cannot do that, Like that is not gonna fly, Like
we can't do this because responsibilities and everything else like that.

(39:04):
And really you got to have like a humbleness of
like not being super selfish that oh I'm full time
now can go a hunt all the time, because that's
not the case, Like there's other stuff that has to
get done before you ever get in the woods. So yeah,
that was a good lesson for me.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
How did you How did you take the rebuke? Did
you get mine at it?

Speaker 4 (39:19):
No, not at all, because I'm like it's rightfully so,
I mean, if you do that to me, I'd be
upset to But I was so hyper focus on hunts
like that. That just man, that's what that's.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
That's pretty that's good.

Speaker 5 (39:29):
I mean that your conflict, that's the key right there,
because that's one thing about him, Like he's always been
like that. And I try to be like that as
much as I can. But you know, like if you
mess up, just own up to it. Yeah, and that'll
get you far.

Speaker 3 (39:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
You know, whatever you're doing, leave your ego at the door. Yeah. Man,
that's great.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
That's like high level humanness for real, just being able
to get along with people and and and surprisingly it's
difficult for a lot of people.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
I mean, why are you looking at me like that?

Speaker 6 (40:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (40:01):
Sure, the reason I brought these two guys here, so
we need to mediate with exactly.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
Thanks for asking.

Speaker 4 (40:07):
Okay, one thing I wanted to bring up just because
I thought you'd find it a little interesting. So I
actually so, I lived in ourself for four years. I
went to see Biaco Academy, really private school up here
in northwest Arkansas. And at the time, we had a

(40:30):
hunting program. They don't do this anymore, okay, but we
could have firearms at school. I was living the dormitories
and we could have we couldn't have center fire rifles,
but we have twenty twos muzzliters and shotguns and we
would go hunt. The school has a bunch of acres.
We would go hunt all the time, like I play sports.
But was like if I didn't have practice or something,
we were going hunting. I got in so much trouble.

(40:52):
So one day I was gonna tell you the story.
So this is great. So so it's a it's a
bendict and monastery. So there's there's monks like at on
like campus, I'd have a monastery there. And one of
the monks who was overseeing the hunting program, he came
to me one day and he's like, hey, y'all want
to go rabbit hunting. I'm like yeah. And we had
gone rabbit hunt with him with some other guys down
the river with some beagles. He's like, well, there we

(41:13):
got a bunch of rabbits around the barns on the property.
He's like, dude, get your shotgun and get your buddy Marshall,
go down there go hunt. I'm like cool. So we
go down there with the monk. No, no, he left now, no, no,
we'd go unsupervised. Okay, like he just he'ld go check.
We'd check out the shotguns whatever, get ammo and walk down.

Speaker 3 (41:28):
To the barn.

Speaker 4 (41:29):
So, but barges are close to the campus. Like bargs
are like maybe three hundred four hundred ardsen campus. We
go down there and just cotontail rabbits everywhere. I'm just
shooting them and they weren't running or nothing like.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
We'd shoot them and then sliding them with a twelve games.

Speaker 4 (41:40):
Yeah, like it was like you just walked her. Anyways,
so we got like six or eight of them. I
started going around the hill and the schools up on
Big Hill. We started going around the hill kind of
falling rabbits. We get all the way to like a
cemetery right there and killing some rabbits. And at one
time I was like, we are very close to school buildings.
But it's like guy, it's also it's okay, Like you know,

(42:01):
brother Edge said we'd come down here. We end up
going back cleaning this, cleaning the rabbits on one of
the park benches on campus. Took the shotguns back, put
the shotguns away. But sir, cleaning rabbits, we had a
lunch lad that would cook us wild game. So they
don't do that anymore either. Wow, but like if we
think we see you, probably yeah. Well, so we'd run
trot lines there. We had a bunch of they had
a bunch of ponds that we'd run trot lines on.

(42:21):
We flay fish and we'd bring them back in the
lunch leaves. We cook it for me my buddies. But
the next day I go to class and the principal
comes in and me and him were pretty cool, Like
I go send his office, talk to him a good bit,
and he came in. He's like, hey, Jacob, I need
you to come to the office real quick. All right, cool,
So I went to the office. I was like, hey,
what's going on? And he's like, well, tell me about
this rabbit hunt. And I'm like, what are you talking about?

(42:42):
And he's like, well, I got reports that you were
shooting the rabbits on campus yesterday. And I'm like, brother,
I kind of went till like brother Edrew told me
to do it. You know, I'm like a fifteen, sixteen
year old kid at a time, and uh, He's like, yeah,
you can't do that. And I lost my hunting privileges
for the rest of the year. It was like I've
read I think a small game. Rabit season opened somewhere
time in October November something like that, and uh lost

(43:04):
hunting privileges for the rest of the year and got
Saturday attention for it for I think a month, uh
Me and Marshall both. But then was got in a
bunch of trouble and I was like, come to find out.
I learned this later. There was another monk on campus
that uh, I don't want to say his name, but anyways,
he was going after and feeding the rabbits. Oh brother Adrian,

(43:28):
which I'll mention his name. He's a fun he's a
fun guy, older guy. Actually he was old when I
was there, and he's he's still kicking great guys. A
year ago, they weren't getting along, I guess a whole bunch,
so we went down there and shot some rabbits that
he didn't want rabbits around the barns and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
But it was one on his fellow monk's rabbits.

Speaker 3 (43:48):
But that's why they were just standing Uh yeah exactly.

Speaker 4 (43:50):
They were like, oh, you're gonna come feed me.

Speaker 3 (43:52):
Oh no, we just didn't realize he was gonna feed
him a shot.

Speaker 4 (43:56):
Yeah, So number seven shot, I mean yeah exactly. But yeah,
we hunted a bunch out there had bows. I had
kept my bow in my climber, underneath my bed in
my in my dormitory, and all my camo and stuff
under there. It was a fun time.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
Wow, Subiaco, we played Subiaco.

Speaker 4 (44:12):
We played Me and a bunch.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I broke.

Speaker 4 (44:16):
My actually not wasn't mean Oh, it wasn't meaning. I
broke my arm playing football.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
Oh really Yeah yeah, wow, crazy man, good times crazy.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
That's a good story.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
So you guys, uh, you guys were the people that
introduced me to Pablo.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
Mmmmm oh yeah yeah, what a what an incredible guy. Uh,
I love Pablo. Now did y'all meet Pablo?

Speaker 5 (44:38):
Uh, Pablo kind of like he was talking about, Uh,
he got to know all those good deer hunters up
where he lives, like Tony Myers, Michael Perry, Daniel Williams,
Jamie McKay.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
These are like local legends.

Speaker 5 (44:49):
In Alabama, I mean, just killers and they all kind
of live in the same area. Well, those are a
lot of the guys that we interview, and we had
some mutual friends that also knew him, and we kind
of knew of Pablo and then he came to me
at the World Deer Expo, like I guess it's three
years ago now, that's where I actually met him, met him,
and I talked to him for ten minutes. I mean,
he had me in tears, just he's hilarious. Yeah, and

(45:11):
I was like, we got to do a podcast with you.
And then late last year we finally made it happen,
and yeah, it was just man, he's so fun. We're
gonna take him on a deer trip this year somewhere.
Oh we got we got to get him in a
deer camp.

Speaker 4 (45:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (45:23):
So he's one of those guys that he's so humble
because of like where he came from, the opportunities that
when he came to the States, he's like he wanted
to get into it and it was like just still
as a sponge soaking up information. And he's fun to
be around because he's super positive no matter how bad
the situation is, super positive. Like every buddy Daniel Williams
who did the episode with us of Pablo, they hunt

(45:44):
a bunch together and they're just telling all these different
stories of all these close calls, not like close calls
killing animals, but close calls like flipping kayaks over an
algadrinfest river and like getting bit by snakes and all
kinds of stuff that. I mean, Pablo, he he's such
an interesting guy that first off, when we did the
episode with him, a lot of people were like, where

(46:05):
is he from? Because his Accidenty're like, is he Cajun's
he from? Like South Louisiana. I'm like, no, not at all, man,
but but yeah, just like a guy like that, it's
nice to meet somebody who's, you know, not a younger
guy by any means, but is someone who's still so
hungry for information and is willing to go out there
and grind and go. Like his first couple of years
hunting never even solid hear yeah, and like but still

(46:26):
kept going. And it's like, man, it's it's amazing to
hear those stories.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
He's so respectful that he earns other people's respect.

Speaker 5 (46:32):
I mean, like we've got we know guys who've taken
out in the woods, taken him out in the woods scouting,
like just trying to show him stuff, and they'll be like, hey,
drop a pin on this, like you can come back here,
and like Pablo like doesn't even have his phone or something.
He's like, I'm not going to steer a spot or anything. Yeah,
like just very respect like he does everything the right
way and people just appreciate that. And so it like
everyone loves Pablo.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
Yeah yeah, yeah, well he was it was it was
cool having him on this podcast.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
So yeah, he was so excited. Man.

Speaker 5 (47:02):
Yeah, I was like I called him. I was like,
guess he was just asking about you. Man, he was
so excited. So yeah, he's a great guy. I love
to see it.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, cool.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
Who I want to ask both of you a question
who and all the people you've interviewed would be like,
people ask me this all the time, So it's a
fair game.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
Favorite interview you've ever done.

Speaker 5 (47:23):
I think we like, I'm going to take the easy
one and just say it's got to be Episode one
sixteen with Glenn Solomon.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
Glenn Solomon. Glenn Solomon.

Speaker 5 (47:31):
He's a gentleman from South Georgia and he was one
of the guys that kind of showed us what direction
we should go in. It was episode one sixteen. I
always tell people it took us like one hundred episodes
to figure out how to not suck at it. And
when we interviewed him, it just like it really clicked
and he gave us great information and we started getting

(47:52):
success stories from it.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
We started having more success.

Speaker 5 (47:55):
But also right after we interviewed him, he passed away,
like three weeks after we release the episod, and so
it kind of gave us the perspective of, like, hey,
we got to record these people stories and everything, and
that that episode kind of changed the game for us,
and it kind of gave us a direction that we
should go.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
Was he like really technical in the way he described
hunting or was he a good storyteller or was he
a character?

Speaker 5 (48:16):
He's he's a good old boy character, just South Georgia woodsman.
Like he's not talking about like, you know, all this
crazy technical stuff.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
That you hear about in like mobile hunting today.

Speaker 5 (48:26):
He's like, man, find you a thicket, get up in there,
you know, do whatever you gotta do.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
That kind of.

Speaker 4 (48:30):
Interesting about him. He was a He's one of the
only guys we ever met in the Southeast who was
successful being a bed hunter for bucks on public land
and killing the fire out of bucks because I think
it's two state tags you get in Georgia, and then
there had bonus buck hunts on different w mas where
like you can go for that day or that weekend
and get an extra buck tag if you kill one.
And he'd kill five mature bucks in one season in

(48:52):
Georgia on like four different pieces of public lan and
most of them were like bed hunting roughly, but he's.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
Just doing cool stuff.

Speaker 5 (48:59):
Like he was hunt those long leaf pine savannahs where
the long leaves aren't super tall yet and all the
all the grass underneath him is four or five feet tall,
and he would he was talking about taking a barstool
in there and sitting on top of a bar stool
in the middle of that stuff just so he could
barely see down into that grass.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
Wow. And killing deer that way.

Speaker 5 (49:15):
Wow, that's it was just that like ratcheting, uh, small
pines together, so get a tree stand on it.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
You know, it's just cool stuff like that. Wow, that's cool.

Speaker 4 (49:24):
And he was also an outdoor writer, so even though
he was he had real country drawl. He was very
well spoken and his writing style kind of mimicked that,
and his family when he passed away, ended up putting
a lot of his stories together. He had written for
all these articles into a book form, which was really
kind of cool. As well.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
It's called hunting on the fly.

Speaker 4 (49:43):
Yeah, but selfishly for me, uh, just so it changed
my hunting. Was a gyman. He's a gentleman from Alabama.
His name's Ron Waters. Would call him Coach. He's old
football and baseball coach in the state. He's in his
seventies and he is a turkey killing public land turkey
killing fiend. And I learned a lot from him. He

(50:03):
was kind of cut from that old school cloth, third
generation turkey hunter. His granddad got killed turkey hunting in
nineteen thirty nine. Yeah, had a guy killed him on
the National Forest with a shotgun mistake temper a turkey.
So he's got a ton of family heritage of turkey
hunters in the state of Alabama. And his big thing
that he really was talking about in the episode with

(50:24):
is that was impactful for me is what he calls
covert calling, Like, you know, you got all these guys
in public land, you know they kill a lot of
birds early in the season, being loud and aggressive, but
after a certain point like it's not going to work
as well, and being a little bit more of a
soft caller, being a little more patient can play huge dividends.
And I started doing that and it was unbelievable, like
a light switch should change for me. So but yeah,
so I take a little bit different able. But we've

(50:44):
interviewed so many different guys. It's the problem is we've
interviewed so many guys at this point, we're at almost
I think seven hundreds on the episodes now that it's
hard to remember everyone unless we've had him on multiple times.
There's some guys we had on, you know, one time
five years ago and unless someone brings it up, like
I kind of forgot about the episode because.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
We have a lot of that's a lot of episodes.

Speaker 4 (51:04):
Yeah. So it's been amazing though, because again, one thing,
especially when it comes to deer hunting, one thing I've
learned after we've interviewed so many guys is there's so
many different ways to be successful. There are some guys
that are big in the sent control. Some guys absolutely
don't care about sync control. Some guys are like mo
hunting redlines. Some guys like hunting scrapes, and they'll talk like, oh,
you can't do this one thing because it won't work,

(51:26):
And then we interview somebody who's like, no, that's what
I do and have a lot of success. And that's
one thing I like about White Tails to me, white
Tails specifically, it's so much based on your confidence level
and experience that molds you to who you are as
a deer hunter, and that's how you kill deer and
it's not necessarily like someone else that's out there.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
Yeah, well I didn't know y'all had that many episodes.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Yeah, man, it's a lot. That's a lot. Yeah, I think.

Speaker 5 (51:48):
I think today we released six ninety two on the
day we're recording this, that came out this morning, so yeah,
we're about to hit seven hundred.

Speaker 4 (51:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
Wow, that's great, man.

Speaker 4 (51:58):
This is one of those things that, like the journeying
I really enjoy is just talking to so many different
guys from different parts of the Southeast in the experience level,
because there's some similarities between guys and there's some that
like they're just upbringing is completely different. Like we interviewed
a guy in North Carolina last year, Western North Carolina
who didn't get into deer hunting until he was I
think thirty one, and he's like thirty five. He's killing

(52:18):
the fire at a big deer in the mountains. Both
of the bow and a rifle, and his background was
rock climbing and like and like long distance hiking. Then
he took that endurance athlete perspective into white tail hunting
and had a really good mentor hunting public land and
just took up on it and killing big deer in
areas that like aren't they're known for big deer but
have very small population size and herd densities. And he's

(52:41):
going out there killing big deer every single year, and
it's it's amazing, just because you never know who you're
gonna talk to and what their background is, because like,
I didn't grow up in a hunting family, like my
dad specifically never hunted. I got in a hunting through
my mom's two brothers and they were big deer hunters,
casual turkey hunters, and that's how I kind of get
the itch to go hunt. And then went with Super Echo.
It was like full fledged, like I can go run

(53:02):
wild and go hunt like crazy. And then college it
was like exponentially more because I found out about public lan.

Speaker 2 (53:07):
Yeah, that's cool, man Bear, Do you have any questions
for these guys?

Speaker 3 (53:12):
Mm?

Speaker 1 (53:12):
Where we talk about the Anazik.

Speaker 6 (53:13):
Child, So what are you guys hunting most and he
said white tails, But like, what do you do personally
like to It.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
Depends on what time of year you asked me that.

Speaker 5 (53:24):
Yeah, yeah, he's in the spring, it's turkey's in the fall,
it's deer. But I really would like to kill a
bear at some point, so I think I'm gonna try
that this year.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
But yes, it's white tails.

Speaker 5 (53:32):
Man.

Speaker 3 (53:32):
Do you guys have a bear season in Alabama?

Speaker 1 (53:35):
Not yet. I think we're getting there.

Speaker 4 (53:37):
Yeah, we're getting close. I've killed a bear, mule, deer.
I still love white tails and I love turkeys, like
it's one of those things. Like I traveled little bit
this year turkey hunting and it was an absolute blast.
And my biggest thing is I like the adventure of
going other places and seeing new scenery, even if it's
the same species. Like we've hunded white toes in Wyoming
and it was wild because we're out and it's like

(54:00):
finding white tails, getting on white taes, killing white tails,
but we're so far twenty nine hours from the house,
almost thirty hours from the house, but you're still hunting
an animal that acts similar, but the habitat is completely different.
And like, I love that aspect of just what we had.
The opportunity here in the United States, as you can
travel all over the place if you have a little
bit of funds and if you want to sleep in
your truck for seven days, you can do that and

(54:21):
have that opportunity. But yeah, I love white tails. Yeah
I've killed one bear in Arkansas. Oh really Yeah, and
killed a bear. My brother was going to school up
here in college and he started running some cameras on
one of the pieces of public up here and he
was trying to find deer and ended up just every
camera he had in this one canyon system had bears

(54:43):
on it. Like every day one of the cameras would
have a bear on it. He went out there killed
one with his bow. And then I came up here
for the Muzzlier hunt and opening day of Muzzlier season,
seen two bear, killed one, and had an opportunity at
a buck, and I'm like, I know that never happens,
Like Clay, your dad told me that as well, because
I texted about it. I was talking to Mo about too,
and he's like, that does not happen. So I'm kind

(55:04):
of just like, I don't know. I want to get
back into bear home. The meat was delicious, but it
was one of those things that that blew me away
because I'm like, I wish we had the opportunity in
the Deep South, but uh, we don't have that currently.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
We had a little bit of everything too though. We
both have bird dogs.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
Uh what kind of bird dog? I mean, like like
for pheasant or ducks or quail.

Speaker 5 (55:22):
He's got a gsp and I've got a small munster lander.
And actually yesterday my wife picked up our new English
shutter puppy. So really, yeah, just got an English cutter yesterday.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
You gotta train the English setter to quail hunt. Oh yeah, yeah,
I actually have wild quail. We have some.

Speaker 5 (55:38):
I actually just joined a hunt club by my house
and it's a timber company and they've started doing mitigation
areas on it where they're re establishing some bottomland hardwoods
and stuff like that. And uh, I keep jumping quail
out there. I've been out there a couple of times.
I've been jumping them. But we got a lot of
woodcock in Alabama. That's our main bird. When when you
get a good push of them because they're migratory when
they're here, it's awesome when they're when they're not there.

Speaker 4 (56:01):
They're not there, see, and I'd rather travel with my dog.
I've gone to Montana of hunter in Iowa, Wisconsin, Wisconsin
was fun, Northern Wisconsin hunting grouse, rough grouse, and then
eastern Montana was unbelievable. So it's that's the cool thing,
is kind of diverse, find what we like to do
in small game hunting.

Speaker 6 (56:16):
Two.

Speaker 4 (56:16):
It's like, that's why it's Southern Outdoors, not Southern deer hunters,
Southern turkey hunters. It's like there's so many opportunities for
being able to be in the woods and hunt. It's like,
don't just do one thing.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
Yeah, So so these guys are able to listen to
the podcast. So the last the last, well, it was
actually two episodes ago, right that we we had the

(56:49):
Mystery of America's Oldest Bones, and we had the one
filler episode not filler, but we had Lake.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
Pickle and T. L. Jones on Special Remnant and so
this one it's coming out then.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
But man, I my wife makes fun of me, like
ridicules me for how much I talk about this kind
of stuff. But uh, you know the Ice Age Paleolithic
people who were the first Americans and now the Anazac
child pretty pretty fascinating to me, and I love having

(57:26):
really qualified guests like doctor David Melson from SMU. I mean,
I don't really know the hierarchy of archaeologists and anthropologists
in America, but I mean he's probably at the top
of the heap in terms of his specialty, which is
the ice age, stone age and like who was here
and what they were doing and stone points. But he's

(57:51):
a fascinating guy and a really good communicator. It's like,
he's really good communicator. And uh so, y'all listen to it.
What what stood out to you? What was the most
interesting thing or what'd you learn? Or to me, would
you be interested in stuff like that? I mean, like
when you listen to that, where you're like, oh, this
would be cool or it won't be or this boring.

Speaker 4 (58:08):
I didn't know really what it was going to get
into and until the conversation really got started. But to me,
the most fascinating thing was the ghost gen in South
and like I think it was southeast Brazil where they
found a gene that connects to or is associated with Australia,
but it's not really found anywhere else. In Central and
North America. It's like, well, how did that get there?
And Andrew's like, maybe maybe those boys did have some
boats and some wild boys started paddling. Yeah, But I

(58:33):
mean the thing is is, I think everybody, if you,
especially if're gonna even if you're not an outdoors man,
you're fascinated with how North America got populated and how
just these early humans settled all across the globe and
specifically across North, South, and Central America. And it's one
of those things that's like, there's so many questions because

(58:54):
it's so old. And Andrew made the comment about like
the the Anziit child when they found it in the
sixties with the back ho It's like, we found that,
but we can't find evidence a big foot? What's going on?

Speaker 2 (59:05):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (59:05):
That podcast kind of ruined for me even more.

Speaker 5 (59:08):
I'm like, how can we not find sasquatch bones but
we can find this fifteen thousand year old bones?

Speaker 2 (59:15):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. The the uh, the data
points we have seemed so obscure to me that that's
what's that's what's so wid. I mean every time that
I as I learned about archaeology, which I wouldn't have
any formal training in it. So I'm learning all this
stuff and I'm always amazed at like some dudes were
out digging with a backo and found that, you know,

(59:37):
and then all this academic science builds around this like
one data point, you know, and it's just astonishing. But
going back to the ghost population, Yeah, when I heard that,
my first thing was, well, do you think people came
over on boats? I actually asked him that, and he
was like no, I mean he those a lot of times,

(01:00:01):
those guys aren't always real certain about stuff, but he
was so certain about it. I mean, the guys spent
his career understanding this stuff. But I mean, basically I
understood him to say that we pretty much know when
people developed the technology to be able to float across
huge oceans, and it was like thousands and thous I

(01:00:22):
mean way before that. But where'd they come from? I
mean I told I told somebody. I was like, it
may have been by accident. Somebody floated across the ocean on.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
A big log. Yeah, man and a woman. I don't know,
you know. I mean, it's like it is such a
it is such a mystery.

Speaker 4 (01:00:47):
No, it is, And that's the fascinating thing about it.
And that's why I like, I know a lot of
these researchers have up until the data they have now
like as much confidence as possible and what they've found.
But it's also like the randomness of them finding that child,
Like what's what's what's the the stat and the statistic
of that actually happened. Like you're just digging one hole,

(01:01:09):
doing whatever kind of expans you're doing, you find that
one thing. Oh, it's like and you made a good
point about like tilling up like the whole earth and
like trying to like what you could find. But it's
like it's not it's not possible. Yeah, and you know
who knows.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
What and how many if you know, baco operators, how
many baco operators could see a stone.

Speaker 3 (01:01:24):
Exactly, cab exactly and stop and get out and look at.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
It and not have just completely ruined it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
So it's just like how many of those things have
been ruined or not just not ever not I mean,
and and the answer is thousands, And I mean some
aren't in existence, Like the bones just were in a
place where they decayed and they're just like literally no
longer human bones. But certainly there are other human specimens
of that age that just never were discovered by science.

Speaker 5 (01:01:54):
You know, you brought up a good point when he
was talking about the the dam builders and the guy
found that clothes point. Yeah, and you're like, I bet
the dam builders appreciated that, and he was like, no,
it didn't disrupt it. But I mean, you hear about
that all the time where maybe it's a farmer, maybe
it's this or that, but they uncover some bones or
something and they just toss it in the river because
they're like, I'm not dealing with this. Yeah, you know,

(01:02:15):
because it's true whatever regulations might come with it. So
I that's a that's a good point because I always
think about that. I'm like, man, there's probably been like
the best ones, maybe even but the best sites are
probably lost due to things like that, either people not
even realizing it or people maybe realizing it and just
want nothing to.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
Do with it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
Well, it's like the the Boneyard guy up in Alaska
that's been on Rogan that has this incredible place that's
a gold it's a gold mine, literally, and.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
Who knows what's on that place. It just it sounds
the guy.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
Possible he embellishes a little bit. I mean he loves
to kind of like stir the pot. But I have
no doubt that it's an unreal place that for the
most part it has not been studied by the.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
Establishment of archaeology.

Speaker 4 (01:03:05):
Well, and we're I think Rogan has talked about because
I've listened to all those episodes, which I can't remember
the guy's name, but when he comes on kind of
at the end of the year the last couple of
years they've done episodes, it's it's a small area that
they're excavating. It's I think you said, because only a
few acres in size of like all the property guy has,
so it's like, who knows what else is out there.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
Yeah, it's astonishing, It's astonishing.

Speaker 4 (01:03:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
I love the subject though.

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
For real.

Speaker 5 (01:03:28):
Every time I find a stone point or a tool
or a flake or anything.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
Like that, I just I love that stuff.

Speaker 5 (01:03:34):
Because we went and found a bunch of arrowheads Mississippi
this year back in January on a buddy Var's property,
and I mean they're everywhere in that field. You find
like a little bitty high spot in that field the
Mississippi River drainage, and I mean they're literally everywhere walking around.
We're finding little what do they call them, like celts
or whatever, like little acts his oh points, like big

(01:03:55):
giant points, little bitty points, and everything in between. And
I'm like, these guys are hunting too, like right here
and this is where we're like, I'm hunting that tree
line over there, and here's this point where some dude
was here I don't know, a long time ago.

Speaker 4 (01:04:07):
The bean field.

Speaker 5 (01:04:09):
Yeah, it's in the middle of a bean field now,
but back then it was like, you know, who knows
what even looked.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
Like, yeah, what's that to you? Andrew and the whole
in the podcast, anything stand out to.

Speaker 5 (01:04:18):
The part where the guy was talking about that Clovis
discovery at the damn site and he was just saying like, hey,
it's out there and if you know where to look,
you can find it. And I don't know that just
kind of that was really cool to me because I've
spent a lot of time listening to that kind of
you know subject, and I try.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
To find it, like every time I'm in the woods,
I'm looking like if I'm.

Speaker 5 (01:04:40):
In a creek, if I'm in a field or whatever,
And that was just it kind of makes you think
there was there's probably I don't know, maybe not talking Clovis,
but after Clovis, there's so many people around making stone points,
Like there's just no telling how many. I read a
I think it was a book one time talking about
early settlers in the East and when they started plowing

(01:05:00):
up the first fields, you know, on the edges of rivers,
and they were talking about just how many, like they
didn't like the arrowheads because like their horses would step
on them and get hurt. And they were talking about
the big, giant, long flat arrowheads skipped the best on
the water.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
And it's like nowadays, you found, you find that you like,
frame it, put it in your house, but they're like, oh,
it's one of these things skip it.

Speaker 5 (01:05:19):
So it's like what's been lost, Yeah, that's incredible, or
what's on I live next to a lake in Alabama,
and all of our lakes are man made flooded, and
a lot of those sites are underwater now because they flooded.
You know, those the river and creek confluences. And you
have a nice little high spot, high flat spot right there.
There's almost always a sight on it, and a lot

(01:05:40):
of it's underwater now. Whether you're talking the lakes and
rivers in Alabama or the southeast, or even.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
The coast because the ocean used to be lower. Somebody,
what's under the air, Yeah, it's cool. Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
You know to me that there was something peculiar that
stood out with the Anzik Child because they linked this
Stone Age human back to Northeast Asia. And we've all
we've always known that, like we've always thought that's where
Native Americans came from. But it truly wasn't until twenty

(01:06:11):
fourteen that we were able to actually say, well, modern
Native Americans here, they can trace their genealogy back to there,
but we didn't know exactly the sequence. So to find
this twelvey seven hundred year old human and then go, yep,
they came from Northeast Asia was like this confirmation of

(01:06:33):
what we already knew. And this is what stood out
to me is that so I randomly talk about that.
I don't talk about this a lot. I'm in the
process of writing a book. The reason I don't talk
about it is because it's so far out it's ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
This book will be published in twenty thirty five.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
But there's this idea that this anthropologist came up with
back in nineteen twenty six is when he published the
paper on this what he called the circumpolar bear cult. Okay,
And basically he was studying the people in the boreal
forest in the northern latitudes, you know, because I mean,

(01:07:15):
you know, the globe has similar like Asia and North
America and even northern Europe all has similar boreal ecology,
you know. And as he studied, he was studying bear
ceremonialism basically, like how these ancient people interacted with bears.

Speaker 1 (01:07:35):
And I won't go.

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
Into all the detail, but he found oddly peculiar, bizarre
similarities in the way that all the people around the
earth talked about had stories about had here's one. This
will give you one odd, odd example. And all these
indigenous stories they talked about how bears sucked their paws

(01:07:58):
in the den to get nurse, to be able to
hibernate through the winter. It's just a random thing. He
found that all the way around the boreal forest, that's
what all the indigenous people kind of were in their lore.

Speaker 1 (01:08:11):
And basically the circumpolar bear call.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
His thing back in nineteen twenty six was that all
these people were connected culturally, even though they would have
never It's like, how did the people in northern Europe?

Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
How were they connected to people in North America?

Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
And basically the Anazac child confirms that they actually were
physically connected. So like the some of the biggest indigenous,
the most wild indigenous bear ceremonialism comes from northern Japan.

(01:08:49):
There's these people called the an u Ai Nu, and
the stuff they did with bears is just bizarre, raising
them in pins and fat and them them out like cattle.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
And they did that in North America too.

Speaker 2 (01:09:04):
But anyway, when I heard that, like, yeah, these people
in America are from Northeast Asia, I was like, I
could have told you that because of they all said
that that bear suck their thumbs in the den, you know,
you know, like you can you can confirm things culturally
to anyway, just a long lended way to see.

Speaker 4 (01:09:21):
I've always been fascinated and there's only so much information
out there. I've always been fascinated with their hunting style
back then, because you know, he talked about you know
that that woman had a like or the dietary. Yeah, yeah,
the breakdown was similar to like some kind of cat
because they're eating so much, you know, large mammal meat, right,

(01:09:42):
And I'm so fascinated with like how do they hunt?
And especially if there wasn't that big of a population
of people, how did they keep from getting super injured
and just getting killed all the time and be able
to populate, Because like that that's something I find super fascinating,
just as as a hunter's like how do they bring
down some of these large animals, these large mammals.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
Yeah, well, I mean they probably had a thirty year lifespan,
and I mean the population was small. I mean, you know,
I mean just think about they don't know, but you know,
I mean think about, you know, fifty thousand people spread
across all of North America. I mean that's like an
incredibly small population of people, but enough to you know,

(01:10:23):
like keep it going if you had a thirty five
year lifespan, you know, and and kids were dying and
I mean, you know, but.

Speaker 4 (01:10:31):
Well then also he was saying that there's been no
evidence found of any kind of inbreeding or anything like that.
You're thinking about if there's like these small person individuals,
you know, for a generation, and they're traveling at some point,
you think that would happen just because the lack of people,
but like again, they haven't found evidence of that, which
is fascinating as well.

Speaker 2 (01:10:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So this is what I was going
to say about the ghost population and the study on
how much these people were carnivor is so hard. Every
time that you learn something, you learn that it's like,
but some people don't buy it, Like the whole ghost population.

Speaker 1 (01:11:11):
There's a whole group of people and.

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
I don't know how credible they are that have that
thing completely figured out and they believe it's an error
in the way that we read genetics. So so like
Meltzer who and you know, you can just like kind
of trust the expert you're standing in front of it
at least that they've like done their homework, and I
trust what he says.

Speaker 1 (01:11:35):
He believes it, he thinks the science is legit.

Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
There's a point I'm gonna make about what you just
said too that I didn't I thought about saying the
ghost population, it's there, but there's skeptics. Well, so there
was this. So with the Anzac child, these people modern people.
Peer The reason I emphasized it was a peer researched
academic paper in this reputable journal is that they published

(01:12:02):
it and they did this deep isotope analysis, and basically
they said that the you know, they can tell what
the mother was eating when it breastfed this child, and
that she was a carnivore and that her diet was
most similar to the bones of a scimitar cat, which

(01:12:22):
would have been killing large mammals. There's a caveat And
I didn't say it on the podcast. Those guys that
wrote that paper, as I understand it, sold, they were
heavily invested in the Blitzkraig hypothesis that man was very

(01:12:42):
involved in all the Pleistocene extinctions, and basically they used
that paper to say man killed out all the big game,
which is a political play of just like it's a
political environmental about how terrible man is. And anyway, so like, actually,

(01:13:07):
I Meltzer said it, so I can say it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:09):
I just didn't put it on there.

Speaker 2 (01:13:11):
He when I told him about that study, he was like, Eh, yeah,
they think they know what that mama ate essentially is what.
So anyway, so I put it on there because it
was so dang interesting and there are legitimate people that
think it's credible. But anyway, it's just like when you're
talking about and I think This is what's most fascinating because.

Speaker 1 (01:13:31):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:32):
I think what I find interesting in modern times is
kind of our hubris of how smart we think we are.
And then and then when you really dive into stuff,
you realize even in modern times, we can fly.

Speaker 1 (01:13:46):
To the moon.

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
We know about the rings of Jupiter, but you know,
as Barry Lopez says in his book Arctic Dreams, we
know more about the rings of Jupiter than we do
nar Waals, like, there's all these things that we like,
we don't really know. And when you're talking about deep
human history, man, a lot of times we're just kind
of guessing, yeah, that's I love that because mystery remains

(01:14:09):
in the earth. I mean, it's like we hadn't figured
it all out. But that's what I like about a
story like the Anzik Child is just like the mystery
of it.

Speaker 3 (01:14:18):
I was fascinated by hearing the whole thing and the
grand scheme of things, of what made those people migrate
so fast, you know what I mean against the odds.
I mean, it was not a favorable environment to be
able to migrate across this vast amount of land, and

(01:14:39):
just you know, it didn't seem like there was a
shortage of food. Didn't seem like there was a shortage
of places to live. What caused them to move across
the country so fast? You know? And like doctor Meltzer said,
he's like, our job as archaeologists is to make huge
assumptions on very little evidence, you know, and it's it's

(01:15:02):
it's it kind of blows your mind to think about.
But it happened, you know what. I mean, we have
evidence that there were people all over at this at
this point in time, and I just I find the
idea of humans moving down the Pacific coast very interesting
during the ice age there. That was Yeah, I mean
just try to imagine that.

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):
Yeah, you know, I said on that podcast, and obviously
I didn't. I said it kind of tongue in cheek
in a way, but I said, what if there's a
technology one day in the bones of humans that will
tell you their motivation?

Speaker 1 (01:15:38):
Yeah, you know, like like because if.

Speaker 2 (01:15:41):
You would have said one hundred years ago that you
could in someone's bones, yep, be able to know what
their mother ate when they when you were breastfat, I
mean it's like you would have been like that's witchcraft.

Speaker 1 (01:15:55):
Yeah, and then and and uh.

Speaker 2 (01:15:59):
Who who knows the thoughts of our mind. Like you know,
stress can cause you to die, Happiness can cause you
to overcome actual physical elements and live longer. Maybe that's
inscribed in our bones. Yeah, and one day they'll be
able to be like hmm, it looks like Andrew's DNA
looks like he had a bump of stress in twenty

(01:16:20):
seventeen when two.

Speaker 5 (01:16:21):
Years had a bump of stress with Jacob went to
Iowa with us.

Speaker 1 (01:16:26):
That'd be like hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:16:27):
It appears that if a business partner went on very
uncalled for absence.

Speaker 1 (01:16:34):
Looks like it happened in the fall. Oh Man.

Speaker 5 (01:16:38):
On the migration thing too, by the way, something my
brain just kind of ties.

Speaker 1 (01:16:42):
It back to that.

Speaker 5 (01:16:43):
They think that the people moved across this big, giant
landscape and like relatively a short amount of time talking
Alaska to the southern tip of South America, and you
just think about those people migrating and moving. It's not
the same people you know that walk from Alaska, but
through generations they were in you know, rainforests, deserts, yep prairies,

(01:17:05):
rocky mountains and it's just all the different places. It's
like imagine if you were one of those people that
was nomadic and migratory and you went from like Montana.

Speaker 1 (01:17:14):
To Mexico or something in your lifetime.

Speaker 5 (01:17:16):
Just the amount of change and the animals that you'd
be hunting, the habitat that you'd be living in, the
scarcely of resources between, you know, if you're in the Pacific.

Speaker 1 (01:17:25):
Northwest versus the desert, right. I don't know, that's fascinating
to me.

Speaker 6 (01:17:29):
Do they have any idea of how many generations it
took for them to get from Alaska to South America?

Speaker 2 (01:17:34):
I asked Meltzer and we just kind of passed over
it real quick. But I initially said did they do
that in like a couple of generations? And he said no, no, no, no,
not a couple And I said five thousand years And
he's like, oh no, no, no, way faster than that.
I mean, you get the I got the impression it
is a couple hundred years.

Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
Yeah. And That's what I'm getting at too, is like
that's not a long amount of time.

Speaker 3 (01:17:55):
Really, No, especially when you don't know where you're going.

Speaker 5 (01:17:58):
You don't know where you're going and you don't have
have like a headlamp or anything.

Speaker 6 (01:18:03):
Is there a lot of evidence stacked on like the
Panama Canal there, because I mean, like so many people,
like everybody would have funneled like deer hunting.

Speaker 1 (01:18:11):
That's where you put your staff.

Speaker 3 (01:18:14):
If you were man hunting.

Speaker 4 (01:18:17):
Hunting, imagine when they were cutting the Panama Canal in
anything they might have found it just like disregarded, yea,
all that excavation. Yeah, I mean, in all honesty. I
mean that's a great point.

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
Bear Well, I mean, but in the tropics, everything just
I recycle so quickly. Only thing that would have been
left would have been lithic points, you know, stone points.
But I thought it was fascinating when he said that
in Europe we have just copious amounts of maybe not copious,
but like there's lots of ice age, human remains, animal

(01:18:48):
remains in uh In Metin Aaron, a former podcast guy.

Speaker 1 (01:18:55):
He said that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:58):
They have all kinds of human masted on kill evidence
in Europe, but here we have very little. And basically
Meltzer said, well, it's because there were so many people there,
like Europe was, there were way more people there than
there were here.

Speaker 1 (01:19:16):
But I mean it's just I don't know what it is.
I mean, we all know what it is.

Speaker 2 (01:19:20):
Because we all feel it like people that are connected
to the land, especially through hunting. When you think about
North America from Alaska to Florida, from from you know,
northern Canada down into you know, Old Mexico, they're being
like five thousand people on the continent. I mean, it's
just like it's just hard to hard to fathom. Yeah,

(01:19:42):
hard to fathom.

Speaker 5 (01:19:43):
But what everything even looked like too, because one thing
he said that kind of caught me off guard was
that that that those artifacts are below like nine meters
of dirt.

Speaker 1 (01:19:53):
Yeah, I'm like, oh my gosh, we're.

Speaker 2 (01:19:56):
Not going to be finding many of these, you know,
I mean, that's insane talking about people navigating the landscape.
This book, I'm reading a book called or I read
a book called Arctic Dreams. It's about the Arctic and
they he was talking about how when the Westerners came

(01:20:19):
to the Arctic and engaged with what they now call Inuits,
at the time they called them Eskimos. Still some people
call them eskimos. He called them eskimos. In the book,
he said that the Westerners felt like the Inuits didn't
have a good sense of direction because when they would
talk to them. They would be like, hey, how do

(01:20:40):
you get from here to here? And the language differences,
like they could interpret what was being said, but the
way they thought about the landscape was so vastly different
than the Europeans that they had a hard time communicating.
But in the book, he shows a modern map of

(01:21:03):
this intricate peninsula that's surrounded by the ocean, and it
looks like southeast Alaska or something with like just unreal coastline.
And they showed a real map of this peninsula, and
then they show a map of a hand drawn by
memory map drawn by an Inuit man sometime in the

(01:21:24):
eighteen hundreds when a guy just said, hey, draw me
a map of and this is like a fifteen hundred
mile long area in the in the the accuracy of
the hand drawn map by memory, it was unreal. I mean,
it looked almost the same.

Speaker 1 (01:21:46):
I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:21:47):
And my point is when people are turned loose on
the land people that I mean, we've lost so much.
I mean, the human ability to navigate land, to find food,
to understand natural systems.

Speaker 1 (01:22:06):
I mean, it's just unreal.

Speaker 2 (01:22:08):
But just thinking about, you know, it'd been interesting if
you could have asked these people generations later who were
in South America draw a map of this continent from
the stories of where you came from. I bet they
could draw pretty decent. I bet they would draw a
big land mass that got real skinny and then open
back up. I mean, because that's what they would have

(01:22:31):
known that, you know, they would have known there's an
ocean over there and an ocean over here and anyway,
just all that's so fascinating.

Speaker 4 (01:22:39):
Yeah. Well, I was actually talking to some guys about
this previously that with the implementation of newer technology in
the lastly fifteen twenty years, truly how bad not everybody,
but a lot of people's memory is because you don't
have to remember as much as previously just where I'm
like growing up and remember phone numbers. Yeah, now it's

(01:23:01):
like on your phone and like you just don't even
think about You just click it and go to their name,
their contact, and it's like imagine like those everything was
by memory, and it's like it's something that like it's
hard to like even think about of how good probably
their memory had to be in order to not only navigate,
but also communicate with younger generations of where they've been,
where they're going and things around them because it's all memory.

(01:23:22):
They didn't have any other way to you know, document it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:25):
I think that's probably a modern purpose person's biggest achilles heel.

Speaker 1 (01:23:30):
What if all the contacts in your phone got erased?
Just like how would you call your wife?

Speaker 4 (01:23:37):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:23:38):
Yeah, it's like, yeah, we don't remember. That's that's a
good example. Yeah, well, hey guys, we've been uh, we've
been going for an hour and twenty two minutes. Any
closing thoughts. I really appreciate you guys coming up here.

Speaker 3 (01:23:52):
Nothing.

Speaker 4 (01:23:52):
I mean, I don't really have any other than it's
great to kind of see the studio now and spend
some times with you guys, because I mean, the thing is,
it's all awesome when you know we could see each
other maybe once a year or something like that, but
also be able to spend some time together and get
everybody's different thoughts on like topics that we've discussed. I
love this is the reason why I love podcasting is
because it gives you a chance to express this that

(01:24:13):
you know you might not be able to do in
other settings and be able to document. So no, we
would just appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:17):
Clay, Yeah, man, Yeah, yeah, I mean I don't. I
don't have much to add to that. I appreciate it's
really cool to be say something, maybe a little more.

Speaker 3 (01:24:25):
Church it up a little yeah, church it up a
little bit.

Speaker 4 (01:24:27):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:24:27):
I'm just happy to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:24:30):
Thank you guys for coming. Southern Outdoorsman Podcast episode. We're
on episode six ninety two out here. Yeah, so these
guys have been pounding it out.

Speaker 4 (01:24:40):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:24:41):
We got a bunch more to do this week too. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:43):
Yeah, that's the that's the oneture going this week.

Speaker 4 (01:24:47):
Uh, we're gonna go to Missouri for this, So we'll
be in Missouri for a handful of days and back
to our sol interviews with more guys as we're heading
back south.

Speaker 5 (01:24:53):
Okay, then a two week break and then we're hitting
the road going up the Eastern seaboard.

Speaker 4 (01:24:58):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:24:59):
Awesome, man, Well, thank you guys for coming. Keep the
wild places wild because that's where the bears do

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Ep. 332: Render - Real Estate Scams, Short Pants, and The Southern Outdoorsmen

Episode Transcript

Host

Clay Newcomb

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 332: Render - Real Estate Scams, Short Pants, and The Southern Outdoorsmen