January 21, 2022 • 54 mins
This week in the Amity Island classifieds, we place an ad for 500 unwanted armoured catfish, sell you on stocked steelhead and make a little dough, buy horrible 90s movies on VHS and feed them to mako sharks, and have a casual encounter with our lack of US Naval history.
Connect with Joe, Hayden, and MeatEater
MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and Youtube
Shop Bent Merch
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I will not be handed a rod with a fish
already on. And I hate that. I hate that. If
I were on a sinking boat and I had a
Great White on the starboard side and I had a
Mako on the port side, I would jump off the
side of the Great White. Did you ever try and
catch any of the fish in your fish tank when
you're a kid? You can't flush because it would be
like flushing a metal porcupine. You can run it over
with a truck and it'll be fine. Good morning to
(00:29):
generate anglers. And welcome to Bend the Fishing podcast that
Jess wants you to go to the end of the
pulpit so you can give the dink Walleye had just
called a little more scale. I'm Joe Surmelie, and I'm
hating samac and I have a sneaking suspicion. I guess
what's about to happen. Well, look, you kind of set
yourself up for it a few weeks ago when I
(00:51):
when I said I'm not talking about bull trout and
I'm talking about shark and and and what what was
perhaps a moment of weakness for you on the show.
You said you didn't know what I was talking about
that is what you said at the time. Yeah, yeah,
I know I did say that, and uh yes, following
that episode, I actually there were like four or five
(01:11):
folks who like lift me up on the old ins
to slam, like just giving me a ship for not
instantly recognizing that that was from It was the bull
trout thing that threw me off, you know what I mean.
And I defended myself and let everyone know that I
have in fact, i've seen Jaws. Well I know, I
know that you did that, but but I know and
(01:32):
I know you is my favorite. Oh god, that's terrible.
You did jump on there and and defend yourself and
say I have seen it. But it wasn't good enough,
was it? No? No, no, and you're an asshole. Uh.
There was one guy that said, uh that we need
to have a Jaws quiz or something on Ben to
(01:53):
test my knowledge. And I mean we talked a little
bit earlier, but I think that that's where or this is.
You asked me a question that was very like niche Jaws,
and I was like, shit, he's lining up a quiz, dude,
I absolutely am uh. And that one guy specifically was
at Money Mustache and I don't need more than one
(02:15):
listener comment to get me to create a Jaws quiz.
And I think that this is important, man, right, your
reputation is a bit on the line. And I'm not
saying you haven't seen Jaws, but around here, like you
don't just see Jaws, like you absorb it. You make
life decisions around its teachings. It becomes a part of you.
So we're gonna We're gonna see, thanks to money mustache,
(02:38):
how well you really know Jaws? Fine? Thanks? What do
I win if I, like, say, I hit it out
of the park? What do I win if you? If
you get them all right? All right? I will send you.
I will send you a selection of hard baits from
our glorious sponsors thirteen Fishing, including one of their locos
(03:00):
special jerk bits that I added a hint of customization to.
About that. You know, I have pretty much all of
th stuff. I want a I want a Jaws inspired
articulated streamer deal. That's why I will come up with that.
And and one more thing. Getting them all right is
(03:23):
a high bar. I need like some leeway, Like what
what is like the passing grade here? What is my
c plus? I would say, so, all right, So here's
what I've done. I've devised four questions and they're they're
ranging in in a degree of difficulty. Will start easy
and get harder. Um, And I would I would like
to say, first of all, I want you to succeed.
(03:43):
I want you to ace this. But so you know,
there's no inside baseball here. They're not like things that
like only like the highest caliber Jaws freak would know
happened behind the scenes or anything like that. Like these
can all be answered simply by watching the film and
paying attention. And I would say, a, I don't know, man,
it's only four questions. Three out of four want to fail?
(04:04):
That fair? Okay? All right, okay, so here we go.
H folks at home, please play along. I'm I'm god,
I'm enjoying this so much. This was so fun, alright,
question number one? UM. And also, I'm not giving you
multiple choice because that might jog your memory. You might
just guess, and that's not that's not proof positive that
you know the answer to these questions. So you know,
(04:27):
maybe take a wild stab if you don't know one.
Question number one, tell me on which naval warship did
quint serve during World War Two. Um, okay, it was
the one that went down by sharks, and that's the
origin of his hatreot or. It didn't go down by sharks,
but it was the one I think it was in
the Pacific Japanese sub slam two torpedoes in the water. Yeah, yeah,
(04:53):
I know, I know, I remember it. Um. I wish
the people could see you on the computer right now,
like he is legit agonizing. There's a beat of sweat.
I guess I could give you partial credit. Remember I
remember like that, I forget what the ship is called.
(05:14):
What is the ship called? Give me? Give me that one?
So like if I half asked another one? Okay, I
give is the USS Indianapolis? Say, I wish I just
knew my naval history better, man, I remember the event
I couldn't recall, like the name. Al right. Next question,
that was the easy one, all right. How much was
(05:37):
Quint charging the mayor to catch and kill the shark? Oh?
You got that one? Good on yet that is correct.
He'd find it for three kill and catch it and
kill it for ten okay, good, alright, alright, doing good,
doing good? All right? What specific material did Quint use
(06:00):
as a bite leader in his shark rigs that would
be the question, man um piano wire, that's correct. It
was that a guess. I remembered it. I remembered it
being like something obscure, and then I thought, what was
(06:20):
like the only thing that would be obscure and that
could also be used as a leader, And I thought
piano wire. So so there's a talking about inside Baseball.
There's the leaded scene where they show him buying spools
of it in the local music shop that got cut.
But even on the boat, he gives Hooper a hard
time when when Hooper says it was a stingray and
he says stingray bit through that piano wire. So it
(06:41):
is mentioned the film piano wires correct and serious shark guys.
After the fact, we're like, that's the dumbest thing. Piano
wire sucked. Like that was just you know, completely for
you know, drama and spice. Nobody ever really used piano wire. Okay,
last one, you're you're you're doing You're doing good. I
like it. In the scene Hooper and Brody are dissecting
(07:02):
the tiger shark that they thought was the man eater,
Hooper pulls a license plate from its stomach. What state
is it from? Okay? Well, and it is supposed to
be in Massachusetts, right, correct, But I don't think it
would be from Massachusetts. M remember where they said it
(07:27):
swam up from? Well y New York. I'm saying New York.
I don't know. Okay, it was Louisiana sportsman's paradise. Oh,
it's a tiger shark, not a white shark. The tiger shark,
(07:49):
they said, probably swam up from the Gulf Stream, from
southern waters. And you know you can buy those license
plates online there. It's it's very cool. That wasn't bad, though, Dude,
that wasn't bad. I'm a little I'm more. I'm more
depressed about the Indianapolis than the license plate. That was
a hard one. You gotta really be paying attention to
(08:09):
know the license plate. Yeah, that was pretty good. Yeah.
Can I get like a bonus question? I really wanted
this streamer. I will tell you what. I will tie
you the streamer anyway, just for being a good sport
and playing along. Oh thanks, Joe, I appreciate that. That
that was. That was pretty fun. Man. All I'm gonna
(08:30):
do is cut some yellow foam into the shape of
a barrel and superglue it to a hook so it
will only take a hot minute. As long as articulated.
I don't care, you know. Actually that would be the ultimate.
You tie a bunch of little barrels onto and articulate
like the whole thing making the chain of barrels. Oh man,
you're gonna get me in trouble because now people are
gonna be like, you have to do that, and I'm
(08:50):
gonna have to spend time doing that. Anyway, that was fun.
Uh money munstache, there you go. Okay, it was if
we give him a little bit for the first one,
but hell, look why not keep the fun and the
trivia going. This all rolls beautifully into a trivia segment
I recorded a while back. Um pre hating times. That's
okay with our good buddy and and Mako Angler extraordinary
(09:12):
Conway Bowman and like Jaws, these questions Marry Shark fact
with Hollywood Shark Fiction. Started from the bottom. Now we're here,
started from the bottom. Now the whole team here, uh
joining me today for trivia. My old buddy Conway Bowman
is back. What's going on? Man? How are you Joe?
I'm doing well? Man, hanging in there. Excellent, excellent. So
(09:36):
just to recap, you're a pioneer fly fishing from Mako sharks,
guided all over the world, written all kinds of books,
been in all kinds of TV shows, And the first
time I had you on, we did covering Water, we
did the rapid Fire thing, and really got to know
who you were. We learned that you don't like large
mouth bass, that you love body and point break and
um are big. You took black Flag over social distortion,
(09:57):
if I remember correctly, and I admired that. So we're
gonna do We're gonna do regular trivia today. So this
is multiple choice, right, not rapid fire. You can take
all the time that you need, sort of bar room style.
Um and uh, just so you know that there's there's
there's nothing to You can lose some dignity, but you
win nothing. I have no prize for you if you
(10:18):
if you ace both of these. But um, I think
I think, well, I really try to like tailor these
questions to my guests, you know, like really drill down
on on who you are. So hopefully I I did
a good job here. So are you ready to play trivia? All? Right?
Here we go we'll do two questions today. Here comes
number one. Short fin Mako sharks are one of the
(10:38):
fastest sharks in the ocean. As you know, they can
also be very aggressive, which has led people to wonder
how dangerous they are to humans. The International Shark Attack
File or I s a F, is kept up to
date by the Florida Museum. So the question is, between
the years of fifteen eighty and seventeen, how many unprovoked
mako attacks on humans does I s a F have
(11:00):
on file? Keep in mind, we're not talking about Marty
and already getting bit bringing one into the boat off Montauk.
These are completely unprovoked attacks. Is it A three, B
ten C one or D six three? Uh? The answer
is actually ten. Now I question the accuracy of those
(11:21):
distant records. They say this is accurate going back to
the late fifteen hundreds, But according to the I s
a F ten people have had unprovoked attacks by makos
and a whopping four and thirty seven years. So actually,
like they're one of even though they're mean looking bastards,
they're one of the least dangerous sharks to humans. Well
that's really interesting, I think. Um. Uh. The because they
(11:43):
inhabit deeper water. If you believe me, if I make
a shark inhabited shallower water, right, they would be right.
They're they're just really not where people are as part
of the deal. They're an open water fish. To be
honest with you, if I were on a sinking boat
and I had a Great White on the starboard side,
and I had a Mako on the port side, and
they were a people size, I would jump off the
(12:04):
side of the Great White hands down, wow, just because
because that was a hot tip right there. If ever
that sharks are so crazy, unpredictable, goofy, they are, like,
they're right, they're scary. Okay, Well, speaking of having a
shark on the starboards side, we'll go on to our
next question here we'll keep up with our shark theme.
Ready for this one. In the classic rom com Joe
(12:27):
versus the Volcano, Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan do a
little trolling off the sailboat that's taking them to the
island of Wa pony Wou, where you might recall the
natives drank nothing but orange soda. Anyway, Hanks only catches
one fish during that trolling session, and it's a shark,
which kind of shark. Was it a a great white,
be a tiger shark, see a black tip? D a
hammer head? Hammer head? Did you get Is that a
(12:52):
guest or do you know that that's correct? That's correct
because that's so Hollywood because it looks cool. It's a well,
I'm getting the impression you're not too faglary with Joe
Versus the Volcano, where many people are not. Oh, that's
a shame. It's not really because it's a shitty movie.
But I think it's a shame because I was gonna say,
bonus question, what does the hammer head shark do when
(13:12):
Hanks hooks it? You wouldn't know that, but it bends
its eyes inward to look right at him and it roars,
which is very very Hollywood. Um anyway, dude, um No.
So that's your your one for two, your one for two.
You just got lucky on Joe Versus Volcano. Your homework
next time we talk is you have to see that
movie and watch all the bonus features if there are
(13:32):
any on the Blue Red tonight. I'll be watching with
the kids. Are you gonna tell me that I have
to watch Joe Versus the Volcano? No? I mean I
mean you should, right, it's no turner and hooch, but
I do highly recommend it. But no, no, no, no.
(13:54):
Knowing knowing Joe versus the volcano inside and out is
not a requirement to be my friend. So it's okay,
you don't have to you don't have the I don't
want to be your friend, man, I don't want to
be your friend, at least not for the next twenty
five minutes while I'm kicking your ass in that weekly
competition we like to call fish news. Fish news. That
(14:19):
escalated quickly. So before we get all news, e guess
what we are happy to inform you, in case you
haven't figured it out already, that there is now a
line of new Bent merchandise in the Meat Eaters store. Yes, sir,
we've We've been getting asked about that since about a
(14:39):
week after this podcast first launch, but anyway, it's finally here.
So what have we got. We've got the Degenerate Angler
hoodie with the Bent logo over the back shoulder, which
I find that to be like very Boston hardcore. I
love the placement of the logo on the back shoulder.
We've got Degenerate Angler T shirts and we also have
a fresh design courtesy of um noted fish tattoo artist
(15:01):
Drew Wilson. I'm pretty pumped about. Yeah, it really captures
what Ben is all about. I'd say, you know, it's
a small amountain in its mouth. It's a broken off
streamer and a popper and and alive helgramite. Yeah. Yeah,
because like we were kind of like, we don't give
a ship. How you fish, That's what we're all about here,
Like all are welcome, uh, peace, love and harmony. If
(15:22):
you throw flies, poppers and live it on the same day,
that's totally cool with us. So that designed from Jews
sort of sort of captures the Ben ethos. I would say,
I I agree, and uh a Joe before we move
on here, man, Um yeah, yeah, we gotta kind of
address something. This is sort of serious um at Ben here,
Like we like to joke around, and I've realized recently
(15:45):
that we've crossed the line with something that we've said. Um,
you're making me extremely nervous because I could think of
like ten things in the last three episode we at
Ben uh continuously joke about how unfun wally or to
catch And I gotta say, Joe, I was totally don't
apologize that they don't fight. That's the big apology. I
(16:11):
stand by Seth and Chester in particular because Man, I
was out on the ice the other day and Joe,
I caught my first walleye ever through the ice. Congratulations
and you'll never forget it. Your arms still hurt, honestly, Man,
you know, I was kind of delighted. Man, you know
we so first off, it's ridiculous first off, And I mean,
(16:36):
I know that may surprise people that I've never caught
a walleye. Um. I think that there are a lot
of fish that, you know, people would expect folks to catch,
and like you're just like kind of like a I
don't know, a species that just kind of evades them
for like one reason or another. Maybe it was like
a lack of interest in going out for maybe it
(16:56):
was something you've tried a couple of the more interesting
fish swimming in shot. What's what's a fish? Joe? Actually,
this would be a good question for our listeners. What
is a fish that it seems like everybody but you
has caught, well, like like like a fish that you
would be expected to catch, but for whatever reason have not,
(17:17):
Like maybe like a catfish like a flathead or something
like that. Maybe, uh, maybe somebody would expect you to
have caught I don't know, pike or something. Do you
have one of those, um man, the one that comes
to mind. People are always surprised that I've never caught
a bourbon. I um, I recently saw my first bourbon
(17:37):
being caught, uh two days ago with my buddy Sam
longren Um. You know I called bourbon. No, I've just
never been on the ice where they are northern Michigan.
I've had some invites. I've had some invites. I just
haven't gotten there. But don't let's enough about me. I
want I want to hear more quickly about why this
walleye was so memorable and why you're apologize, Because every
(18:00):
time I've caught a walleye through the ice, even a
big one, right, you were you using a flasher? Yes,
I was, okay, So that's exciting. You see him on
the flash, You're like, oh, well there he is, boom,
got him And before you can even say got him,
his head is coming up through the ice. Every time
I did it, well, it's like that's done. Yeah. I
mean to me, as a lot of things and fishing
(18:23):
tend to be. This was the more of a realization
of a long time goal. When I first got into
ice fishing, like as a kid, it was on a
lake called Lake wall and Pop back in Pennsylvania, and
I remember when we were going to visit this lake,
my dad told me that there were a wallly in
this lake. And up until then, I had primarily fished
(18:43):
for where like you know, trout and bass and like
sunfish and just ship like that, because that's what was
accessible in most of the bodies of water that we
had gone to. Up until this point in time. I
had never like gone to like a species sort of destination,
you know what I mean. Like I'd never like gone
somewhere with like the promise of, oh, by the way,
(19:04):
there's something that you don't normally come in contact with
swimming around on the bottom. So we got into ice
fishing that year, and the first goal that I ever
had ice fishing was like, I'm gonna set all these
tip ups and I'm gonna catch a wall that was
like eleven ten years old, and uh, you know, I
just never did it, and I ended up not ice
(19:27):
fishing very much more because it doesn't seem like we
get that much ice in Pennsylvania, you know, as of
late anyhow, And um so pulling a wal live through
the ice was like ten year old me was real
excited about it. And you catch this one on a
tip up jagged and I jagged it with a thirteen
flashbang no less. Oh nice. Nice. We got a bunch
(19:52):
of pictures of it. Um yeah, man, Because I'm no
Wally Ice expert, but all the Wally Ice guys that
I've hung out with, they're like, tip ups isn't the
way to go for wall No, Like you gotta tease them,
you gotta make them, you gotta make them want it,
you know what I mean. Yeah, And another like kind
of like unique challenge out here is that we can't
use live bait in the form of shiners or anything
(20:12):
like that. So basically all your tip ups are dead sticks.
I mean, we do like nightcrawlers for trout, which like
move around a little bit, but it's not like the
same as you're having a shiner on there. But anyhow, Yeah,
I really issue that apologies more of a way to
kind of segue into talking about my first walleye And
that was pretty great experience and I think my attitude
(20:35):
is going to change on them. I kind of do
see the appeal of the walleye, particularly when you eat them. Dude,
Holy crap, that is a good inating fish. Anybody who's
a walle eye through the ice or like the best
eating fish man, I think you're probably right. Anyhow, any
any fresh water fish for the ice is better eating.
I'll give you that much cold water baby, that's where
it's at. So cool. So you're a walleye guy, now
(20:56):
you could you could just transcribe everything you just said
for the fore whatever your book walleye and me by
hating samac when that comes out a memoir. Anyway, you've
gone on way long enough here. Um, you know, so
you're you're patting yourself against those walleyes. Now we're peating
ourselves against each other. Let's not forget this is a competition.
At the end of this Dog and Pony Show, and
while I extravaganza, our mentor colleague and Audio Addonna's Phil
(21:19):
Taylor will declare a winner and uh you, sir, have
the floor to lead off this week with news. Okay, dook,
So this morning we're gonna talk a little bit about
hatchery steelhead because I'm sick of talking about how bad
it is for wild steelhead in the Pacific Northwest. Oh okay,
(21:40):
of course we are going to talk a little bit
about that too, of course you are. So this is
gonna be a little bit of a non traditional fish
news story, as I'm going to kind of touch on
a couple of different stories to paint a bigger picture.
The overarching theme of this story comes from the news
motion who reported on researchers explore new ways to make
(22:00):
hatchery steelhead more like wild fish. Now, we all know
that hatchery steelhead, uh, they don't spawn even kind of
as well as wild steel head. Spawning ability, or the
ability to reproduce in general, is known as fecundity. Uh.
Now that's one term. There's another term, another f word,
if you will, and that is fitness. When fisheries biologists
(22:24):
use the term fitness, what they're describing is a hatchery
fish's ability to survive and thrive in the wild. So, right,
fecundity and fitness speak of wild let's talk about the
state of wild steel head. Here are some statistics. Isn't
that what you just said you weren't going to talk
about I said I was going to touch on it.
Here are some statistics, as reported by the Vancouver Sun.
(22:45):
In less than forty steel head ran up the Chilco River. UH.
In the Thompson River, just two hundred and three steel
head were observed returning to spawn. I think that was
last year. I'm not sure that. Um. The Vancouver Sun
also reports that ten percent of the steelhead population in
(23:05):
the Chilcotton River system, and by ten percent, I mean
to fish, uh, they ended up in gillnets. It's very,
very not good. And that's like that's mostly interior steelhead.
But so it makes sense that we're investing in the
betterment of these fish hatchery programs not only to increase
angler opportunity, but also as a way to eventually boost
(23:27):
the numbers of fish that behave as if they were
wild and hopefully increase the population to self sustaining numbers.
So let's talk about the I'm gonna wait for the
end here. I want to hear the conclusion. But I
mean what you just said, Like, you know, there's a
lot of people listening in the Pacific Northwest who are
totally disagreeing with Oh yeah, I mean, I mean sure,
and real quick like to touch on that I understand,
(23:50):
and like, yeah, I am. I'm of the mind that
habitat restoration and like aggressive environmental policy is probably the
way to go in order to maintain these wild steel headstocks.
And you can look at other examples in wildlife management,
like for instance, um, you know, one of our great
success stories in American conservation, right is the reintroduction of
(24:15):
the wild turkey. And when they first tried to reintroduce
the wild turkey, uh, they would raise these pulse you know,
in captivity and then they would release them. And you
know what would essentially had there was a put in
take program, because those wild turkeys wouldn't really develop, you know,
populations that could sustain themselves, Like they weren't reproducing in
(24:38):
meaningful ways and it's just kind of a waste of
time and money. Then what they did was they recaptured
a lot of wild wild turkeys in like strongholds like
I think in Alabama, like places like that, and then
they repopulated their native range with these captured birds. A
(24:58):
couple decades later, you know, we got wild turkeys everywhere.
So I don't think that like stocking basically stocking a
bunch of steelhead is the answer. But then I also
don't think that, you know, raising I'm not sure it's
entirely analogous, Like just because it didn't work in that
instance doesn't mean it won't work in this instance. And
you also got to think about the purity of the
(25:19):
stocks and the specific strains, and you know, I, I
don't know, man, I I think it's like a discussion
to be had. I'm not maybe not the one to
have a discussion about that. If you know a fisheries
biologists in the Pacific Northwest, I talked to him or her.
So anyway, all that aside, we're going to try and
talk about a an instance where these programs aimed at
(25:45):
giving hatchery steelhead wild qualities is like kind of being
implemented and and we're so because of that, we're going
to talk about the American River in northern coast essentially. Right,
it's like, for lack of a better way to put it,
they're trying to make better the hatchery fish. Yeah, yeah,
that's a good way to put it, right, Okay, So,
(26:05):
per the stocking record, the California Department of Fish and
Wildlife have already observed over nine hundred fish a mix
of wild hatchery bread and juvenile fish entering the hatchery,
which is up from just like three hundred fish counted
at the same time last year. Now they're siting, Yeah,
they're siting higher than average flows as one of the
(26:26):
main reasons these fish are having a good year. So
earlier we talked about fitness and fecundity. Again we see
reduced fecundity of these hatchery fish because they don't have
the same fitness as wild steelhead. Basically, hatchery fish going
to the ocean get their asses kicked. This returning population
of steelhead is a good thing and the reason that
(26:48):
it's a good thing is that the American River Fish
Hatchery seems to be experimenting with ways to reduce negative
consequences associated with hatchery fish and it I guess it
appears to be working. Um. According to the c d
f W it's California Department Fish and Wildlife Fisheries, biologists
at the American River Fish Hatchery are hoping to perpetuate
(27:09):
a specific strain of steelhead, and that's the Eel River steelhead,
which is it's a it's a larger strain, right, Whereas
a lot of these wild fish get up to like,
you know, eight ten pounds. These ones kind of tend
to top out at fifteen, sixteen, seventeen pounds so they
can fight off the giant squids and stuff when they're out. Yeah, yeah, exactly,
they were larger and therefore presumably tougher. The American River
(27:32):
Fish Hatchery is doing this by selecting fish exclusively of
the Eel River strain. Like when they return, they okay,
that's a Neel River strain, that's anil River strain, and
they're only spawning returning hatchery origin fish, right, so they're
kind of going, Okay, this one went out of the ocean,
it came back big and strong. That's probably a good one.
So they're like, you know, working on selection there. Um.
(27:55):
So it's an example of ways that we're trying to
use the hatcheries system, or fisheries bologists are trying to
use the hatchery system and put a hand in selecting
these fish that are gonna have higher levels of fitness
and higher levels of fecundity and hopefully, because of that,
make a a stronger strain of fish that could one
(28:16):
day have self sustaining stocks. So, I mean, is this
good news for steelhead on the level of a complete
return of a wild run. No, But is it a
step in the right direction for hatchery fish looking to
create a sustainable population of Steele's Like maybe? Um. Either way,
it's a big year for steelhead in the American River.
And no matter how you look at it, that's a
good thing for anglers. It's it's very interesting and I
(28:40):
appreciate what they're doing. And I feel like, no matter
how you slice it, you're gonna get a different answer
from anglers out there. This is good or this is bad.
And you know what, I I fully understand it. I'm
not well versed in West coast steel but I will
say and I think most anglers would agree. Wild fish
are it's cooler, They're sexier. That's always what we want
(29:02):
to catch. You love great legs, steel, I love great
lakes steel. Are they fun? Hell? Yeah? But like is
that as cool as catching a wild No? It's not so, man,
It's kind of like, is this is this really? Maybe?
Sort of the the best thing we can hope for
is building a better hatchery fish based on fish that
(29:24):
are going to the ocean. Maybe. But then if I
look at it, like if my beloved striped bass all
went away, all those wild runs up to Delaware, I mean,
everything we have here. If it was just like down
to nothing and somebody was like, m, we can create
hatchery fish, and and maybe it's hard to say like it.
I would say, yes, it's better than nothing, but it
(29:47):
would never it would still never be the same. You're
still not fixing like the big problem. But that doesn't
mean it's not cool science. Like I said, I appreciate
what they're doing. Um, there comes a point with like
any sort of wildlife management, right where you have to
look at what you have and what you can reasonably
expect to regain. Right In a lot of cases, you're saying, okay,
(30:14):
I would rather have wildfish, and I think everybody would
agree with you. There is not a single fisheries a
boulogist that would be like, no, we'd rather have hatchery fish,
of course, of course. But the question I would pose
to them is this, if you could have a strain
of wild steel head, because you know, like the Eel
(30:37):
River steel head, that's where a lot of these like
stocks are coming from. If you could have that strain
of steel head preserved in such a way that like
they continued to exist, even if the genesis of that
was an artificial hatchery condition. If you don't have nothing anyway,
why not have that? I completely agree, and I think
(31:01):
that's what I'm saying, like, like, it would be foolish
to be like stop this madness were wildfish like you, like,
these people are doing some cool stuff, and it is
there is a preservation tactic there. And again we're not
talking about like putting it in uh you know, we're
talking about the American River here, and if you don't know,
like the American River, it's like it's in Sacramento, you
know what I mean. We're not we're not talking about
(31:21):
doing it like the you know, the babbying. But it
could be a model for that if it ever got
to that that. I think, as with so many tools
in conservation, I think it can be tailored to like
the fishery in which the biologists are discussing, like, is
the model for the American River going to be the
(31:41):
same model that like you know they take to the Frasier. No,
of course it's not gonna be the same model. Well yeah,
I will say, like I know, we've got some steelheaders
listening right in. Let us know what you think I would.
I'd be happy to read some of those responses known
to show down the road. Please enter your pass word.
(32:06):
You have one unheard message hidden. Where are you? What
we were supposed to be at? My parents? Has an
hour on my way with the dog. You're out fishing.
We need to have a conversation when you get home,
because this is getting absolutely ridiculous. Community. At this end
of the message, delete press seven save deleted. So I'll
(32:27):
move it over here. From fish, we're trying to get
more of two fish. We are completely trying to get
rid of about that. Uh and and I will I
gotta say I was tempted to grab a story for
for this week with the following headline. Hamas claims it
has captured and Israeli spied dolf and equipped with weapons
and capable of assassinating its fighters off of Gaza. Because
(32:47):
the image of the dolphin with the spear gun on
its head is just straight Austin powers. You know, I
have one simple request, and that is to have sharks
with freaking later beans attached to their heads. But while
I was intriguing, it was just too far off the mark,
Like it was just too far off mark. Plus so
many of you sent along the catfish story out of Texas.
(33:10):
I felt covering it was the right thing to do.
So let's go to Texas and learn about um an
invasive species that's a real pain in the ask and
offers zero benefit to anglers, absolutely none. So we are
talking about the sucker mouth armored catfish, otherwise known as
plecos in the aquarium trade. And according to the story
on Yahoo Knews, a team of researchers from Texas, A
(33:31):
and M in Texas State recently pulled four six sucker
mouth armored catfish from the San Marcos River quote during
a dewatering event at a public park. So scientists are
hoping that studying some of the fish collected will help
them figure out how best to control them um. The
story says, originating from the waters of South America, the
(33:51):
sucker mouth is an aquarium fish that was released into
the wild and has grown out of control of the
Texas Parks and Wildlife Department said. The armored catfish is
a long way from home swimming around Texas waterways, but
it has thrived anyway to the detriment of the state's
natural ecology. Um So now these fish might be commonly
labeled as Pleco's at the pet Smart. I don't know
(34:12):
if you had these as a kid. I always called
them algae eaters. Yeah. I had these as a kid.
And um, if you remember a couple of months ago,
I told a story about the fish tank that burned
your house down almost the fish tank that almost you know,
killed my entire family, and uh, there were plecas swing
around that thing. Yeah, those are always my favorite ones.
(34:35):
Oh see really, because I was gonna say, like if
a lot of people had these when they were a kid,
and the appeal was they were supposed to eat all
the green and brown algae in your tanks, which was
great because cleaning fish tank sucks and when you're a kid,
a lot of times your tank just goes to complete hell.
It's just like, you know, disgusting. But I was gonna say,
other than that, like they were I thought they were
the most useless, ugly, boring addition to any tank. They
(34:56):
don't they don't do anything, man, I see. The appeal
to me was like they kind of look like sharky. Yeah,
I mean, but I don't know. I thought they were
just like an eyesore, like just sucked onto the glass
somewhere like they would move overnight once and not again
all day. But that's neither here nor that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Did you ever try and catch any of the fish
in your fish tank when you're a kid? No? I
(35:17):
never did, And I even had later in life some
game fish in the tank. I love feeding them, but no,
I never caught them. My brother and I did try
and catch that plico once or twice. Yeah, but it
was but it was hard, Which is kind of going
to tie into the rest of this story, because the
thing is, they are apparently indestructible. So according to the piece,
and doesn't this sound familiar snakehead lovers, they can breathe
(35:40):
out of water for quote at least twenty hours and
walk on land. How they would calculate this at roughly
two point three miles per hour one of them, Yeah,
that's what that's that's what okay? For how long? Like
if it can move apparently up to twenty hours, If
it can breathe out of water for at least twenty
hours and walk two point three I would I have
(36:03):
friends that cannot maintain a two point three base. They
can get from Center City to the Philly Airport in
thirteen point nine minutes. I don't know, um anyway, One
of the most common ways they get moved is by birds,
because plecos are really easy targets, but they are so
sharp and hard and spiky that a bird usually drops
(36:26):
them pretty quickly, and assuming they survived the fall, depending
on how high up they are um quote, the fish
could potentially walk for hours until it finds a body
of water that's horrifying. That sucks. They can't swim for
more than ten minutes straight, so how they can walk
for hours? I don't understand. They're a lazy as fish. Um. Now.
(36:50):
While these fish are primarily eating algae and plant matter,
they do compete with some native species for food. But
the story says they've also taken over in parts of Florida,
and they're so many in some places they'll actually swarm
manatees to eat the algae off their skin. And there
can be so many plecos on on the manateee that
it gets severely stressed out like mad manatees stress. So
(37:13):
that's clearly an issue. If you're in the manatees story,
to tell you when we're off the air in a minute, Okay,
fair enough, I do too, kind of now, everybody's gonna
be curious. Yeah, mine ends with a cracked transom on
a flat skiff anyway. Um So, a bigger issue with
the catfish than what they eat is actually how they
(37:35):
like to burrow in soft banks, and the people in
Texas are worried that's gonna ramp up bank erosion and
like destabilized river banks and things more quickly. Uh So,
you know invasives never good, right of course, but this
one has absolutely no silver lining. And I'm not surprised
this happened because those fish, I don't know about yours,
(37:57):
but they eventually get big in your tank and they
live forever. So whether it outgrows the tank, you just
decide to like go to college, and you don't want
your tank anymore, like pet stores don't want those things back. Right,
you can't flush it because it would be like flushing
a metal porkupin Right, you can run it over with
a truck and it'll be fine. Um, but in the wild,
it's not good for bait. It's nothing you can target.
(38:19):
It's just pretty worthless. So my opinion banned them, like, honestly,
if they're that much of a problem, we've banned so
many other aquarium fish that were much prettier and more interesting,
you know what I mean, like hashtags stop the pleco
Uh they're stupid fish anyway, So you know, it really
is like an interesting thing. Um, it's weird to think
(38:40):
that when you're talking about buying like mamillion creatures or
like like like a like a servile cat or something
like that spider monkey. Yeah, there's so much red tape
and like, right of those things finding each other in
the wild, even if you were to release them is
(39:01):
not particularly high up there. Yet you can buy like
all sorts of like invasive fish, and you can buy
breathing populations basically of invasive fish. Yep, there could easily
find their way into a waterway, and like that's like
still totally okay because it's fish, dude, it's underwater. Only
certain people care. People in the neighborhood will be worried
(39:21):
about a couple of loose spider monkeys. They don't give
a ship that there's armored catfish in the pond out there.
That's just that's just the reality. That's just the reality. Anyway. Um, Yeah,
there you go. Everybody who wrote in thank you for
that one armored catfish. Done and done, Let's go to Phil.
What does he want swimming in his river? Hatchery steelhead
or plecos And after we hear from Phil, we're actually
(39:43):
gonna hit end of the line. And this segment is
kind of the antithesis of an article I published this
week on the Meat Eater site for misconceptions about mousing
for trout. About that, so give that a read. And
if you decide mousing for trout sounds like too much work,
forget that article and pay even closer attention and to
the forthcoming end of the line segment. Hey, Hayden, you're
(40:08):
the winner this week. I just can't help but feel
bad for these hatchery steelhead. I mean, that would be
kind of like if a human were to spend most
of their formative years playing trombone and video games, and
then eventually down the road, maybe they got a job
in an office full of self sustaining hunters and outdoors people.
(40:28):
I mean, can you imagine what that would do to my,
I mean, this person's self esteem. M hm, well that's
not loud enough, Burt. If you listen to my last
(40:49):
end of the line on Swiss wings, you know I
have a soft spot for fishing related nostalgia, So it
should come as no surprise that we're going to walk
down those familiar back roads again now with a bait.
I believe every angler has had an experience with at
one point or another. I think everyone knows the smell
that musty, sweet, funky odor emanating from pretty much every
(41:11):
tackle box you know. It just smells like fishing. I
also think that everyone who has used this particular item
has had the shared experience where after a day on
the water, you walk in and a loved one gives
you a kind of amused look, then gets closer and
says you have glitter on your face. Of course, I'm
talking about power Bait. Now. Power Bait is actually the
(41:34):
brand name for a bunch of Berkeley Soft plastic creations,
but the forum I'm talking about is known as power
Bait Dough. Before we get into power Bait, let's clarify something.
Berkeley has been around for a while. The company was
founded in seven by a young man named Berkeley Biddell,
selling flies in Spirit Lake, Iowa. Let's fast forward it's
(41:55):
the mid eighties and Berkeley has since been taken over
by Berkeley Baddell's son, Tom, looking out for the next
big thing. Tombadel becomes focused on attractings and unless the
help of Dr Hermann Clear Cooper, a fisheries biologist from
Texas A and M who invents Strike. Berkeley's first scent product, Strike, however,
(42:17):
had a major flaw. It was a topical scent product
and washed off baits easily. But Dell knew he needed
to develop a longer lasting attracting and puts chemist John
proc Now and fisheries biologist Dr. Keith Jones up to
the task. Through meticulous research, over the span of three years,
proc Now and Jones began to develop what become power
(42:38):
bait by reverse engineering natural prey, breaking that prey down
into basic molecular components and amino acids. To test the
palatability of these individual elements, they soak cotton balls in
their formulas and fed them to fish in their lab.
They soon discovered that no single element was having the
effect that they wanted, so they began testing combinations of
(42:59):
natural and synthetic compounds. These combinations proved to be more effective,
and they eventually landed on an attractive formula we know
today as power bait. Power bait comes in many forms,
notably it's integrated into Berkeley Soft Plastics. But the form
I'm most familiar with is the power bait dough. As
any stocker fisherman knows, those pellet has just can't seem
(43:20):
to resist that sent and fused plato floating, tantalizing lee
just off the bottom. I still remember fishing Salt and
Creek with my grandpa and him carefully showing me how
to need little corn kernel size balls of this stuff,
then how to carefully mold it around my hook. An
interesting note about Berkeley power Bait dough. Many folks seem
to think it's toxic, and that's not the case. The
(43:42):
dough itself is made of a heat treated mixture of
PVC powder and oil resin and is completely digestible, although
it is very obviously not for human consumption, so please
leave leading to the fish. If you've got something on
the end of your line that you think belongs on
the end of our line, feel free to write into
Bent at the meat eater dot com with your suggestions,
(44:04):
and if you got a good story about power bait,
send that into you know what man. I vividly remember
the very first time I ever used power bait for trout.
Like I remember hanging out at my grandparents house the
night before opening day of the trout season in Jersey,
and my grandfather, Um, he'd just gotten back from the
bait shop, and you know, he picked up our nightcrawlers
(44:26):
and mealies and salmon eggs and he busted out this
jar of power bait and said something like, you know, here,
here's some here's some new ship. That guy was saying,
we'll catch more trout than anything, like super skeptical. Like
it was almost like an ad on sale, like the
guy got him here. Sorry, you should try this, you
know how it works. You know, I honestly don't recall
if that O G bottle of orange PB caught trout
(44:49):
or not an opening day, but it must have, because
like my grandfather was never without it again, you know
what I mean, Like from there on out he had
power bait, and I even think he kind of phased
out salmon eggs in favor of it. So I definitely
called fish. I just don't remember if it did the
first time out, you know. Yeah. Yeah. The thing that
you know, I I mentioned this and the thing but
(45:10):
the thing that I think about when I think of
power bait is like it was almost like every person
used power bait to try and like seam seal the
inside of pockets, and they're like old school fishing vests,
you know what I mean. Like everything it would be
like it just had a way of like crusting in there,
and like I just feel like every like cre would
be in your zippers, yeah, be everywhere that Yeah, because
(45:32):
you would you would get it on your fingers and
like wipe it here, and then it would lock into
the FACTI I feel like I can smell it right now.
But you know, whatever gets your limit right, yeah, oh totally, totally. Well,
you know it's perfect that you bring up trout fishing
is a little kid, because we've got a question the
bent Helpline this week that speaks to any parents or
(45:53):
grandparents out there that have a little limit catching machines,
like young Joe used to be. What do you laughing at?
You're not an idiot, you're not a gamblooning help more,
You're a fisherman. What's your emergency? All right? Uh So
today on the bent Helpline, we have a question from
(46:17):
Evan Taylor, who writes Dear Ben. Let's say I am
fishing in a state where human does not need a
fishing license until there are fourteen. That's an interesting way
to say a kid. It's a very interesting way to
put it. Yeah, and let's say I like how this
all like framed and hypothetical. And let's say the daily
limit for bluegill and said state is twenty five for
(46:39):
easy math per day. If I have my kids who
are seven and five out fishing, does that mean my
cooler could theoretically have seventy five blue gill in it?
Or is the limit twenty five because I am the
only one who paid for a license. Now, of course,
anyone who's fished with kids, no, you're never going to
limit with them along. But SI signed Evan Taylor. M hmm,
(47:06):
you got any thoughts on that? Because I do you
know what, man, I don't have kids. This is something
that has never come up for me. I'm gonna let
you deal with this one entirely. I'm just gonna sit
back and listen. Yeah, And dear God, I hope I'm
not giving out wrong information here. But my understanding has
always been that if that basically legal is legal. In
other words, if you don't need a license within your
(47:28):
state till your fourteen. I think in some states it's
it's fifteen, maybe thirteen, it varies. But point being, if
you are not of legal age for a license, you
are still legal in the state's eyes to be out fishing.
So just thinking back to when I was growing up
and you know, fishing with my dad, Like on opening
day at trout, I would have my stringer and he
(47:52):
would have his stringer. You know what I mean? Um,
you know, I yes, I in theoretically you know now
where where it gets gray is Um, I I've I've
I've seen instances where you know, the kids aren't really
fishing too hard, Dad puts his twelve on the stringer.
(48:16):
That's shitty, Like that's that's that's sort of Also that
um you know, gets into that argument of like when
your saltwater fishing, is it cool for the captain to
keep his limit for the day too if you want
to bring home more whatever fluke or salmon on the
Great Lakes? But I think I mean, if you're if
your aim is true and your heart is pure, okay,
(48:40):
and um you you really you really want your seventy
five blue gills or whatever, and your kids are legit
catching them. Um. Yeah, legally, I think absolutely, your your
child is legal to fish and pretty sure that the
same limits would would apply there. Yeah. Um, now, what
if you were hooking the fish and the kids were
(49:01):
reeling them in? And I have a follow up question
of this you have? But see, now you're getting into
semantics like that's the that's the problem with this, like
is it? Let me ask you this, Let me ask
you this. Here's the follow up. What is the difference
between that and being on a charter fishing where the
first mate is the one hooking all the fish and
you're just reeling them in and gripping, grinning with them.
(49:26):
Plenty of people do that and keep well, sure they do.
But but again, man like, so in that scenario, if
you're out on a charter boat, right, and uh, I mean,
first of all, if I'm on a charter boat where
the maid is hooking the fishing hand, he's gonna that
is like a pet peeve of mine. I will not
take a a rod. I will not take I will
(49:47):
not be handed a rock. I got you. God, I
hate that, right, I hate that. But I would say, um,
you know, if you're if you're newbies, rookies, you booked
a charter somewhere, you know, and the maids setting the
hook on the troll or whatever it may be on
it doesn't matter, on the bottom, and he's handing you
the rod and you're okay with that, like that doesn't
(50:09):
bother you. As long as you're only taking your limit
as the angler, then what's the difference? You know what
I'm saying. But what I'm comparing that too is like
the kid on opening day where his dad is hooking
the trout and like letting him reel the trout in.
Now you kind of implied that you didn't think like
(50:30):
maybe that was so cool. No, no, no no, no, you're
misunderstanding completely. What I'm saying is, no, you are misunderstanding
what I'm saying. What I'm saying is there's I think
there's a little more leeway in taking your kid fishing
and your kids standing there fishing with you in the
water wade and sitting in the lawn chair whatever, and
(50:51):
maybe he's too little, so you hook one and handing
the rod. I mean, this is something I never have
to worry about because I'm I don't care about keeping
a limit right now of anything that my young kids
would catch. Like we're not doing that right, so that
that that's one thing what I'm saying is you go fishing,
you bring your kid, Your kids off running around in
(51:12):
the woods, are looking for fairies, flipping rocks and completely
unengaged in what you're doing. But you're going to keep
his or her six trout to if you're using them
as a body, so that if somebody flagged you, you'd
be like, well, I caught these six, and a little
timmy here caught the other six. You know. But it's
I mean, it's it's getting in the it's ultimately getting
(51:34):
in the weeds, you know. It's it's it's about you.
It's about effort. If you put in the effort, then
it's like whatever. If you're using them is like a
justification to keep you know, X amount of fish without
the expectation that they're going to be actively involved in
catching said fish, then that's what you don't like. Yeah,
I mean, all all Evans question really spoke to more
(51:55):
was the legality of it. Can I keep that a limit?
You know? Again, my two kids, I hope Evans not
like rounding up all the kids in the neighborhood. I'm
taking them all fishing. I don't know what the guy's
m O is, right, we can't. We don't read minds.
I'm sure that's not it. It's actually it's it's a
good question, you know. Yeah. And if he's a listener
to Ben, I'm sure that he is just an upstanding
(52:16):
member of society. Or he could be a degenerate angler.
Degenerate angler, you don't know, but yeah, listen, I just
just to sort of cover our asses. Maybe this varies
in different states. I'm not sure, but I mean I
I hold licenses in multiple states every year for freshwater.
You know, grew up traveling fish and fished all over.
(52:39):
I've never heard of such a thing where, you know,
a legal a legal unlicensed angler, meaning a little kid
I couldn't keep fishing, couldn't couldn't keep their fish or
keep their limits. Yeah, no rules there, it sounds right. Well. Anyway,
that's a great question, Evan, Thank you very much for
sending it into Ben. If you have questions yourself, you
can send him to either Joe on his Instagram, you
(53:02):
can send them to me on my Instagram. You can
send him into the bent inbox at bent at the
Meat Eater dot com. Um and yeah, send your question
via text, send in a voice memo. We like those
and you could hear yourself. You're texting them to my number?
Did you give out your number? Who did you text
them to? You said, send him in via text? Did
you give out your number publicly? Yeah? My number five
(53:25):
F five I meant in in a text based format. Yeah. Yeah. Look,
send your questions in and we'll do our best to
answer him on the Bent helpline. So that's it for
this week. Remember if you're taking the kids out with
the power bait looking for your makeo limbit, if it roars,
(53:47):
set it free. Also, please please keep those sale band items,
awkward photos, helpline questions, bar nominations, and all that good
stuff coming to Bent at the Meat Eater dot com. Yeah,
and keep using those Bent podcasts and degenerate angler hashtags.
And for the love of God, please stop suggesting quizzes
for me. No, no, keep suggesting them. What other movies
(54:09):
should we quiz? Haden on Perfect Storm, Mighty Ducks, Open Everything. Yeah,
I'm open to everything except Half Baked, because that would
just be too easy. He
I will not be handed a rod with a fish
already on. And I hate that. I hate that. If
I were on a sinking boat and I had a
Great White on the starboard side and I had a
Mako on the port side, I would jump off the
side of the Great White. Did you ever try and
catch any of the fish in your fish tank when
you're a kid? You can't flush because it would be
like flushing a metal porcupine. You can run it over
with a truck and it'll be fine. Good morning to
(00:29):
generate anglers. And welcome to Bend the Fishing podcast that
Jess wants you to go to the end of the
pulpit so you can give the dink Walleye had just
called a little more scale. I'm Joe Surmelie, and I'm
hating samac and I have a sneaking suspicion. I guess
what's about to happen. Well, look, you kind of set
yourself up for it a few weeks ago when I
(00:51):
when I said I'm not talking about bull trout and
I'm talking about shark and and and what what was
perhaps a moment of weakness for you on the show.
You said you didn't know what I was talking about
that is what you said at the time. Yeah, yeah,
I know I did say that, and uh yes, following
that episode, I actually there were like four or five
(01:11):
folks who like lift me up on the old ins
to slam, like just giving me a ship for not
instantly recognizing that that was from It was the bull
trout thing that threw me off, you know what I mean.
And I defended myself and let everyone know that I
have in fact, i've seen Jaws. Well I know, I
know that you did that, but but I know and
(01:32):
I know you is my favorite. Oh god, that's terrible.
You did jump on there and and defend yourself and
say I have seen it. But it wasn't good enough,
was it? No? No, no, and you're an asshole. Uh.
There was one guy that said, uh that we need
to have a Jaws quiz or something on Ben to
(01:53):
test my knowledge. And I mean we talked a little
bit earlier, but I think that that's where or this is.
You asked me a question that was very like niche Jaws,
and I was like, shit, he's lining up a quiz, dude,
I absolutely am uh. And that one guy specifically was
at Money Mustache and I don't need more than one
(02:15):
listener comment to get me to create a Jaws quiz.
And I think that this is important, man, right, your
reputation is a bit on the line. And I'm not
saying you haven't seen Jaws, but around here, like you
don't just see Jaws, like you absorb it. You make
life decisions around its teachings. It becomes a part of you.
So we're gonna We're gonna see, thanks to money mustache,
(02:38):
how well you really know Jaws? Fine? Thanks? What do
I win if I, like, say, I hit it out
of the park? What do I win if you? If
you get them all right? All right? I will send you.
I will send you a selection of hard baits from
our glorious sponsors thirteen Fishing, including one of their locos
(03:00):
special jerk bits that I added a hint of customization to.
About that. You know, I have pretty much all of
th stuff. I want a I want a Jaws inspired
articulated streamer deal. That's why I will come up with that.
And and one more thing. Getting them all right is
(03:23):
a high bar. I need like some leeway, Like what
what is like the passing grade here? What is my
c plus? I would say, so, all right, So here's
what I've done. I've devised four questions and they're they're
ranging in in a degree of difficulty. Will start easy
and get harder. Um, And I would I would like
to say, first of all, I want you to succeed.
(03:43):
I want you to ace this. But so you know,
there's no inside baseball here. They're not like things that
like only like the highest caliber Jaws freak would know
happened behind the scenes or anything like that. Like these
can all be answered simply by watching the film and
paying attention. And I would say, a, I don't know, man,
it's only four questions. Three out of four want to fail?
(04:04):
That fair? Okay? All right, okay, so here we go.
H folks at home, please play along. I'm I'm god,
I'm enjoying this so much. This was so fun, alright,
question number one? UM. And also, I'm not giving you
multiple choice because that might jog your memory. You might
just guess, and that's not that's not proof positive that
you know the answer to these questions. So you know,
(04:27):
maybe take a wild stab if you don't know one.
Question number one, tell me on which naval warship did
quint serve during World War Two. Um, okay, it was
the one that went down by sharks, and that's the
origin of his hatreot or. It didn't go down by sharks,
but it was the one I think it was in
the Pacific Japanese sub slam two torpedoes in the water. Yeah, yeah,
(04:53):
I know, I know, I remember it. Um. I wish
the people could see you on the computer right now,
like he is legit agonizing. There's a beat of sweat.
I guess I could give you partial credit. Remember I
remember like that, I forget what the ship is called.
(05:14):
What is the ship called? Give me? Give me that one?
So like if I half asked another one? Okay, I
give is the USS Indianapolis? Say, I wish I just
knew my naval history better, man, I remember the event
I couldn't recall, like the name. Al right. Next question,
that was the easy one, all right. How much was
(05:37):
Quint charging the mayor to catch and kill the shark? Oh?
You got that one? Good on yet that is correct.
He'd find it for three kill and catch it and
kill it for ten okay, good, alright, alright, doing good,
doing good? All right? What specific material did Quint use
(06:00):
as a bite leader in his shark rigs that would
be the question, man um piano wire, that's correct. It
was that a guess. I remembered it. I remembered it
being like something obscure, and then I thought, what was
(06:20):
like the only thing that would be obscure and that
could also be used as a leader, And I thought
piano wire. So so there's a talking about inside Baseball.
There's the leaded scene where they show him buying spools
of it in the local music shop that got cut.
But even on the boat, he gives Hooper a hard
time when when Hooper says it was a stingray and
he says stingray bit through that piano wire. So it
(06:41):
is mentioned the film piano wires correct and serious shark guys.
After the fact, we're like, that's the dumbest thing. Piano
wire sucked. Like that was just you know, completely for
you know, drama and spice. Nobody ever really used piano wire. Okay,
last one, you're you're you're doing You're doing good. I
like it. In the scene Hooper and Brody are dissecting
(07:02):
the tiger shark that they thought was the man eater,
Hooper pulls a license plate from its stomach. What state
is it from? Okay? Well, and it is supposed to
be in Massachusetts, right, correct, But I don't think it
would be from Massachusetts. M remember where they said it
(07:27):
swam up from? Well y New York. I'm saying New York.
I don't know. Okay, it was Louisiana sportsman's paradise. Oh,
it's a tiger shark, not a white shark. The tiger shark,
(07:49):
they said, probably swam up from the Gulf Stream, from
southern waters. And you know you can buy those license
plates online there. It's it's very cool. That wasn't bad, though, Dude,
that wasn't bad. I'm a little I'm more. I'm more
depressed about the Indianapolis than the license plate. That was
a hard one. You gotta really be paying attention to
(08:09):
know the license plate. Yeah, that was pretty good. Yeah.
Can I get like a bonus question? I really wanted
this streamer. I will tell you what. I will tie
you the streamer anyway, just for being a good sport
and playing along. Oh thanks, Joe, I appreciate that. That
that was. That was pretty fun. Man. All I'm gonna
(08:30):
do is cut some yellow foam into the shape of
a barrel and superglue it to a hook so it
will only take a hot minute. As long as articulated.
I don't care, you know. Actually that would be the ultimate.
You tie a bunch of little barrels onto and articulate
like the whole thing making the chain of barrels. Oh man,
you're gonna get me in trouble because now people are
gonna be like, you have to do that, and I'm
(08:50):
gonna have to spend time doing that. Anyway, that was fun.
Uh money munstache, there you go. Okay, it was if
we give him a little bit for the first one,
but hell, look why not keep the fun and the
trivia going. This all rolls beautifully into a trivia segment
I recorded a while back. Um pre hating times. That's
okay with our good buddy and and Mako Angler extraordinary
(09:12):
Conway Bowman and like Jaws, these questions Marry Shark fact
with Hollywood Shark Fiction. Started from the bottom. Now we're here,
started from the bottom. Now the whole team here, uh
joining me today for trivia. My old buddy Conway Bowman
is back. What's going on? Man? How are you Joe?
I'm doing well? Man, hanging in there. Excellent, excellent. So
(09:36):
just to recap, you're a pioneer fly fishing from Mako sharks,
guided all over the world, written all kinds of books,
been in all kinds of TV shows, And the first
time I had you on, we did covering Water, we
did the rapid Fire thing, and really got to know
who you were. We learned that you don't like large
mouth bass, that you love body and point break and
um are big. You took black Flag over social distortion,
(09:57):
if I remember correctly, and I admired that. So we're
gonna do We're gonna do regular trivia today. So this
is multiple choice, right, not rapid fire. You can take
all the time that you need, sort of bar room style.
Um and uh, just so you know that there's there's
there's nothing to You can lose some dignity, but you
win nothing. I have no prize for you if you
(10:18):
if you ace both of these. But um, I think
I think, well, I really try to like tailor these
questions to my guests, you know, like really drill down
on on who you are. So hopefully I I did
a good job here. So are you ready to play trivia? All? Right?
Here we go we'll do two questions today. Here comes
number one. Short fin Mako sharks are one of the
(10:38):
fastest sharks in the ocean. As you know, they can
also be very aggressive, which has led people to wonder
how dangerous they are to humans. The International Shark Attack
File or I s a F, is kept up to
date by the Florida Museum. So the question is, between
the years of fifteen eighty and seventeen, how many unprovoked
mako attacks on humans does I s a F have
(11:00):
on file? Keep in mind, we're not talking about Marty
and already getting bit bringing one into the boat off Montauk.
These are completely unprovoked attacks. Is it A three, B
ten C one or D six three? Uh? The answer
is actually ten. Now I question the accuracy of those
(11:21):
distant records. They say this is accurate going back to
the late fifteen hundreds, But according to the I s
a F ten people have had unprovoked attacks by makos
and a whopping four and thirty seven years. So actually,
like they're one of even though they're mean looking bastards,
they're one of the least dangerous sharks to humans. Well
that's really interesting, I think. Um. Uh. The because they
(11:43):
inhabit deeper water. If you believe me, if I make
a shark inhabited shallower water, right, they would be right.
They're they're just really not where people are as part
of the deal. They're an open water fish. To be
honest with you, if I were on a sinking boat
and I had a Great White on the starboard side,
and I had a Mako on the port side, and
they were a people size, I would jump off the
(12:04):
side of the Great White hands down, wow, just because
because that was a hot tip right there. If ever
that sharks are so crazy, unpredictable, goofy, they are, like,
they're right, they're scary. Okay, Well, speaking of having a
shark on the starboards side, we'll go on to our
next question here we'll keep up with our shark theme.
Ready for this one. In the classic rom com Joe
(12:27):
versus the Volcano, Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan do a
little trolling off the sailboat that's taking them to the
island of Wa pony Wou, where you might recall the
natives drank nothing but orange soda. Anyway, Hanks only catches
one fish during that trolling session, and it's a shark,
which kind of shark. Was it a a great white,
be a tiger shark, see a black tip? D a
hammer head? Hammer head? Did you get Is that a
(12:52):
guest or do you know that that's correct? That's correct
because that's so Hollywood because it looks cool. It's a well,
I'm getting the impression you're not too faglary with Joe
Versus the Volcano, where many people are not. Oh, that's
a shame. It's not really because it's a shitty movie.
But I think it's a shame because I was gonna say,
bonus question, what does the hammer head shark do when
(13:12):
Hanks hooks it? You wouldn't know that, but it bends
its eyes inward to look right at him and it roars,
which is very very Hollywood. Um anyway, dude, um No.
So that's your your one for two, your one for two.
You just got lucky on Joe Versus Volcano. Your homework
next time we talk is you have to see that
movie and watch all the bonus features if there are
(13:32):
any on the Blue Red tonight. I'll be watching with
the kids. Are you gonna tell me that I have
to watch Joe Versus the Volcano? No? I mean I
mean you should, right, it's no turner and hooch, but
I do highly recommend it. But no, no, no, no.
(13:54):
Knowing knowing Joe versus the volcano inside and out is
not a requirement to be my friend. So it's okay,
you don't have to you don't have the I don't
want to be your friend, man, I don't want to
be your friend, at least not for the next twenty
five minutes while I'm kicking your ass in that weekly
competition we like to call fish news. Fish news. That
(14:19):
escalated quickly. So before we get all news, e guess
what we are happy to inform you, in case you
haven't figured it out already, that there is now a
line of new Bent merchandise in the Meat Eaters store. Yes, sir,
we've We've been getting asked about that since about a
(14:39):
week after this podcast first launch, but anyway, it's finally here.
So what have we got. We've got the Degenerate Angler
hoodie with the Bent logo over the back shoulder, which
I find that to be like very Boston hardcore. I
love the placement of the logo on the back shoulder.
We've got Degenerate Angler T shirts and we also have
a fresh design courtesy of um noted fish tattoo artist
(15:01):
Drew Wilson. I'm pretty pumped about. Yeah, it really captures
what Ben is all about. I'd say, you know, it's
a small amountain in its mouth. It's a broken off
streamer and a popper and and alive helgramite. Yeah. Yeah,
because like we were kind of like, we don't give
a ship. How you fish, That's what we're all about here,
Like all are welcome, uh, peace, love and harmony. If
(15:22):
you throw flies, poppers and live it on the same day,
that's totally cool with us. So that designed from Jews
sort of sort of captures the Ben ethos. I would say,
I I agree, and uh a Joe before we move
on here, man, Um yeah, yeah, we gotta kind of
address something. This is sort of serious um at Ben here,
Like we like to joke around, and I've realized recently
(15:45):
that we've crossed the line with something that we've said. Um,
you're making me extremely nervous because I could think of
like ten things in the last three episode we at
Ben uh continuously joke about how unfun wally or to
catch And I gotta say, Joe, I was totally don't
apologize that they don't fight. That's the big apology. I
(16:11):
stand by Seth and Chester in particular because Man, I
was out on the ice the other day and Joe,
I caught my first walleye ever through the ice. Congratulations
and you'll never forget it. Your arms still hurt, honestly, Man,
you know, I was kind of delighted. Man, you know
we so first off, it's ridiculous first off, And I mean,
(16:36):
I know that may surprise people that I've never caught
a walleye. Um. I think that there are a lot
of fish that, you know, people would expect folks to catch,
and like you're just like kind of like a I
don't know, a species that just kind of evades them
for like one reason or another. Maybe it was like
a lack of interest in going out for maybe it
(16:56):
was something you've tried a couple of the more interesting
fish swimming in shot. What's what's a fish? Joe? Actually,
this would be a good question for our listeners. What
is a fish that it seems like everybody but you
has caught, well, like like like a fish that you
would be expected to catch, but for whatever reason have not,
(17:17):
Like maybe like a catfish like a flathead or something
like that. Maybe, uh, maybe somebody would expect you to
have caught I don't know, pike or something. Do you
have one of those, um man, the one that comes
to mind. People are always surprised that I've never caught
a bourbon. I um, I recently saw my first bourbon
(17:37):
being caught, uh two days ago with my buddy Sam
longren Um. You know I called bourbon. No, I've just
never been on the ice where they are northern Michigan.
I've had some invites. I've had some invites. I just
haven't gotten there. But don't let's enough about me. I
want I want to hear more quickly about why this
walleye was so memorable and why you're apologize, Because every
(18:00):
time I've caught a walleye through the ice, even a
big one, right, you were you using a flasher? Yes,
I was, okay, So that's exciting. You see him on
the flash, You're like, oh, well there he is, boom,
got him And before you can even say got him,
his head is coming up through the ice. Every time
I did it, well, it's like that's done. Yeah. I
mean to me, as a lot of things and fishing
(18:23):
tend to be. This was the more of a realization
of a long time goal. When I first got into
ice fishing, like as a kid, it was on a
lake called Lake wall and Pop back in Pennsylvania, and
I remember when we were going to visit this lake,
my dad told me that there were a wallly in
this lake. And up until then, I had primarily fished
(18:43):
for where like you know, trout and bass and like
sunfish and just ship like that, because that's what was
accessible in most of the bodies of water that we
had gone to. Up until this point in time. I
had never like gone to like a species sort of destination,
you know what I mean. Like I'd never like gone
somewhere with like the promise of, oh, by the way,
(19:04):
there's something that you don't normally come in contact with
swimming around on the bottom. So we got into ice
fishing that year, and the first goal that I ever
had ice fishing was like, I'm gonna set all these
tip ups and I'm gonna catch a wall that was
like eleven ten years old, and uh, you know, I
just never did it, and I ended up not ice
(19:27):
fishing very much more because it doesn't seem like we
get that much ice in Pennsylvania, you know, as of
late anyhow, And um so pulling a wal live through
the ice was like ten year old me was real
excited about it. And you catch this one on a
tip up jagged and I jagged it with a thirteen
flashbang no less. Oh nice. Nice. We got a bunch
(19:52):
of pictures of it. Um yeah, man, Because I'm no
Wally Ice expert, but all the Wally Ice guys that
I've hung out with, they're like, tip ups isn't the
way to go for wall No, Like you gotta tease them,
you gotta make them, you gotta make them want it,
you know what I mean. Yeah, And another like kind
of like unique challenge out here is that we can't
use live bait in the form of shiners or anything
(20:12):
like that. So basically all your tip ups are dead sticks.
I mean, we do like nightcrawlers for trout, which like
move around a little bit, but it's not like the
same as you're having a shiner on there. But anyhow, Yeah,
I really issue that apologies more of a way to
kind of segue into talking about my first walleye And
that was pretty great experience and I think my attitude
(20:35):
is going to change on them. I kind of do
see the appeal of the walleye, particularly when you eat them. Dude,
Holy crap, that is a good inating fish. Anybody who's
a walle eye through the ice or like the best
eating fish man, I think you're probably right. Anyhow, any
any fresh water fish for the ice is better eating.
I'll give you that much cold water baby, that's where
it's at. So cool. So you're a walleye guy, now
(20:56):
you could you could just transcribe everything you just said
for the fore whatever your book walleye and me by
hating samac when that comes out a memoir. Anyway, you've
gone on way long enough here. Um, you know, so
you're you're patting yourself against those walleyes. Now we're peating
ourselves against each other. Let's not forget this is a competition.
At the end of this Dog and Pony Show, and
while I extravaganza, our mentor colleague and Audio Addonna's Phil
(21:19):
Taylor will declare a winner and uh you, sir, have
the floor to lead off this week with news. Okay, dook,
So this morning we're gonna talk a little bit about
hatchery steelhead because I'm sick of talking about how bad
it is for wild steelhead in the Pacific Northwest. Oh okay,
(21:40):
of course we are going to talk a little bit
about that too, of course you are. So this is
gonna be a little bit of a non traditional fish
news story, as I'm going to kind of touch on
a couple of different stories to paint a bigger picture.
The overarching theme of this story comes from the news
motion who reported on researchers explore new ways to make
(22:00):
hatchery steelhead more like wild fish. Now, we all know
that hatchery steelhead, uh, they don't spawn even kind of
as well as wild steel head. Spawning ability, or the
ability to reproduce in general, is known as fecundity. Uh.
Now that's one term. There's another term, another f word,
if you will, and that is fitness. When fisheries biologists
(22:24):
use the term fitness, what they're describing is a hatchery
fish's ability to survive and thrive in the wild. So, right,
fecundity and fitness speak of wild let's talk about the
state of wild steel head. Here are some statistics. Isn't
that what you just said you weren't going to talk
about I said I was going to touch on it.
Here are some statistics, as reported by the Vancouver Sun.
(22:45):
In less than forty steel head ran up the Chilco River. UH.
In the Thompson River, just two hundred and three steel
head were observed returning to spawn. I think that was
last year. I'm not sure that. Um. The Vancouver Sun
also reports that ten percent of the steelhead population in
(23:05):
the Chilcotton River system, and by ten percent, I mean
to fish, uh, they ended up in gillnets. It's very,
very not good. And that's like that's mostly interior steelhead.
But so it makes sense that we're investing in the
betterment of these fish hatchery programs not only to increase
angler opportunity, but also as a way to eventually boost
(23:27):
the numbers of fish that behave as if they were
wild and hopefully increase the population to self sustaining numbers.
So let's talk about the I'm gonna wait for the
end here. I want to hear the conclusion. But I
mean what you just said, Like, you know, there's a
lot of people listening in the Pacific Northwest who are
totally disagreeing with Oh yeah, I mean, I mean sure,
and real quick like to touch on that I understand,
(23:50):
and like, yeah, I am. I'm of the mind that
habitat restoration and like aggressive environmental policy is probably the
way to go in order to maintain these wild steel headstocks.
And you can look at other examples in wildlife management,
like for instance, um, you know, one of our great
success stories in American conservation, right is the reintroduction of
(24:15):
the wild turkey. And when they first tried to reintroduce
the wild turkey, uh, they would raise these pulse you know,
in captivity and then they would release them. And you
know what would essentially had there was a put in
take program, because those wild turkeys wouldn't really develop, you know,
populations that could sustain themselves, Like they weren't reproducing in
(24:38):
meaningful ways and it's just kind of a waste of
time and money. Then what they did was they recaptured
a lot of wild wild turkeys in like strongholds like
I think in Alabama, like places like that, and then
they repopulated their native range with these captured birds. A
(24:58):
couple decades later, you know, we got wild turkeys everywhere.
So I don't think that like stocking basically stocking a
bunch of steelhead is the answer. But then I also
don't think that, you know, raising I'm not sure it's
entirely analogous, Like just because it didn't work in that
instance doesn't mean it won't work in this instance. And
you also got to think about the purity of the
(25:19):
stocks and the specific strains, and you know, I, I
don't know, man, I I think it's like a discussion
to be had. I'm not maybe not the one to
have a discussion about that. If you know a fisheries
biologists in the Pacific Northwest, I talked to him or her.
So anyway, all that aside, we're going to try and
talk about a an instance where these programs aimed at
(25:45):
giving hatchery steelhead wild qualities is like kind of being
implemented and and we're so because of that, we're going
to talk about the American River in northern coast essentially. Right,
it's like, for lack of a better way to put it,
they're trying to make better the hatchery fish. Yeah, yeah,
that's a good way to put it, right, Okay, So,
(26:05):
per the stocking record, the California Department of Fish and
Wildlife have already observed over nine hundred fish a mix
of wild hatchery bread and juvenile fish entering the hatchery,
which is up from just like three hundred fish counted
at the same time last year. Now they're siting, Yeah,
they're siting higher than average flows as one of the
(26:26):
main reasons these fish are having a good year. So
earlier we talked about fitness and fecundity. Again we see
reduced fecundity of these hatchery fish because they don't have
the same fitness as wild steelhead. Basically, hatchery fish going
to the ocean get their asses kicked. This returning population
of steelhead is a good thing and the reason that
(26:48):
it's a good thing is that the American River Fish
Hatchery seems to be experimenting with ways to reduce negative
consequences associated with hatchery fish and it I guess it
appears to be working. Um. According to the c d
f W it's California Department Fish and Wildlife Fisheries, biologists
at the American River Fish Hatchery are hoping to perpetuate
(27:09):
a specific strain of steelhead, and that's the Eel River steelhead,
which is it's a it's a larger strain, right, Whereas
a lot of these wild fish get up to like,
you know, eight ten pounds. These ones kind of tend
to top out at fifteen, sixteen, seventeen pounds so they
can fight off the giant squids and stuff when they're out. Yeah, yeah, exactly,
they were larger and therefore presumably tougher. The American River
(27:32):
Fish Hatchery is doing this by selecting fish exclusively of
the Eel River strain. Like when they return, they okay,
that's a Neel River strain, that's anil River strain, and
they're only spawning returning hatchery origin fish, right, so they're
kind of going, Okay, this one went out of the ocean,
it came back big and strong. That's probably a good one.
So they're like, you know, working on selection there. Um.
(27:55):
So it's an example of ways that we're trying to
use the hatcheries system, or fisheries bologists are trying to
use the hatchery system and put a hand in selecting
these fish that are gonna have higher levels of fitness
and higher levels of fecundity and hopefully, because of that,
make a a stronger strain of fish that could one
(28:16):
day have self sustaining stocks. So, I mean, is this
good news for steelhead on the level of a complete
return of a wild run. No, But is it a
step in the right direction for hatchery fish looking to
create a sustainable population of Steele's Like maybe? Um. Either way,
it's a big year for steelhead in the American River.
And no matter how you look at it, that's a
good thing for anglers. It's it's very interesting and I
(28:40):
appreciate what they're doing. And I feel like, no matter
how you slice it, you're gonna get a different answer
from anglers out there. This is good or this is bad.
And you know what, I I fully understand it. I'm
not well versed in West coast steel but I will
say and I think most anglers would agree. Wild fish
are it's cooler, They're sexier. That's always what we want
(29:02):
to catch. You love great legs, steel, I love great
lakes steel. Are they fun? Hell? Yeah? But like is
that as cool as catching a wild No? It's not so, man,
It's kind of like, is this is this really? Maybe?
Sort of the the best thing we can hope for
is building a better hatchery fish based on fish that
(29:24):
are going to the ocean. Maybe. But then if I
look at it, like if my beloved striped bass all
went away, all those wild runs up to Delaware, I mean,
everything we have here. If it was just like down
to nothing and somebody was like, m, we can create
hatchery fish, and and maybe it's hard to say like it.
I would say, yes, it's better than nothing, but it
(29:47):
would never it would still never be the same. You're
still not fixing like the big problem. But that doesn't
mean it's not cool science. Like I said, I appreciate
what they're doing. Um, there comes a point with like
any sort of wildlife management, right where you have to
look at what you have and what you can reasonably
expect to regain. Right In a lot of cases, you're saying, okay,
(30:14):
I would rather have wildfish, and I think everybody would
agree with you. There is not a single fisheries a
boulogist that would be like, no, we'd rather have hatchery fish,
of course, of course. But the question I would pose
to them is this, if you could have a strain
of wild steel head, because you know, like the Eel
(30:37):
River steel head, that's where a lot of these like
stocks are coming from. If you could have that strain
of steel head preserved in such a way that like
they continued to exist, even if the genesis of that
was an artificial hatchery condition. If you don't have nothing anyway,
why not have that? I completely agree, and I think
(31:01):
that's what I'm saying, like, like, it would be foolish
to be like stop this madness were wildfish like you, like,
these people are doing some cool stuff, and it is
there is a preservation tactic there. And again we're not
talking about like putting it in uh you know, we're
talking about the American River here, and if you don't know,
like the American River, it's like it's in Sacramento, you
know what I mean. We're not we're not talking about
(31:21):
doing it like the you know, the babbying. But it
could be a model for that if it ever got
to that that. I think, as with so many tools
in conservation, I think it can be tailored to like
the fishery in which the biologists are discussing, like, is
the model for the American River going to be the
(31:41):
same model that like you know they take to the Frasier. No,
of course it's not gonna be the same model. Well yeah,
I will say, like I know, we've got some steelheaders
listening right in. Let us know what you think I would.
I'd be happy to read some of those responses known
to show down the road. Please enter your pass word.
(32:06):
You have one unheard message hidden. Where are you? What
we were supposed to be at? My parents? Has an
hour on my way with the dog. You're out fishing.
We need to have a conversation when you get home,
because this is getting absolutely ridiculous. Community. At this end
of the message, delete press seven save deleted. So I'll
(32:27):
move it over here. From fish, we're trying to get
more of two fish. We are completely trying to get
rid of about that. Uh and and I will I
gotta say I was tempted to grab a story for
for this week with the following headline. Hamas claims it
has captured and Israeli spied dolf and equipped with weapons
and capable of assassinating its fighters off of Gaza. Because
(32:47):
the image of the dolphin with the spear gun on
its head is just straight Austin powers. You know, I
have one simple request, and that is to have sharks
with freaking later beans attached to their heads. But while
I was intriguing, it was just too far off the mark,
Like it was just too far off mark. Plus so
many of you sent along the catfish story out of Texas.
(33:10):
I felt covering it was the right thing to do.
So let's go to Texas and learn about um an
invasive species that's a real pain in the ask and
offers zero benefit to anglers, absolutely none. So we are
talking about the sucker mouth armored catfish, otherwise known as
plecos in the aquarium trade. And according to the story
on Yahoo Knews, a team of researchers from Texas, A
(33:31):
and M in Texas State recently pulled four six sucker
mouth armored catfish from the San Marcos River quote during
a dewatering event at a public park. So scientists are
hoping that studying some of the fish collected will help
them figure out how best to control them um. The
story says, originating from the waters of South America, the
(33:51):
sucker mouth is an aquarium fish that was released into
the wild and has grown out of control of the
Texas Parks and Wildlife Department said. The armored catfish is
a long way from home swimming around Texas waterways, but
it has thrived anyway to the detriment of the state's
natural ecology. Um So now these fish might be commonly
labeled as Pleco's at the pet Smart. I don't know
(34:12):
if you had these as a kid. I always called
them algae eaters. Yeah. I had these as a kid.
And um, if you remember a couple of months ago,
I told a story about the fish tank that burned
your house down almost the fish tank that almost you know,
killed my entire family, and uh, there were plecas swing
around that thing. Yeah, those are always my favorite ones.
(34:35):
Oh see really, because I was gonna say, like if
a lot of people had these when they were a kid,
and the appeal was they were supposed to eat all
the green and brown algae in your tanks, which was
great because cleaning fish tank sucks and when you're a kid,
a lot of times your tank just goes to complete hell.
It's just like, you know, disgusting. But I was gonna say,
other than that, like they were I thought they were
the most useless, ugly, boring addition to any tank. They
(34:56):
don't they don't do anything, man, I see. The appeal
to me was like they kind of look like sharky. Yeah,
I mean, but I don't know. I thought they were
just like an eyesore, like just sucked onto the glass
somewhere like they would move overnight once and not again
all day. But that's neither here nor that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Did you ever try and catch any of the fish
in your fish tank when you're a kid? No? I
(35:17):
never did, And I even had later in life some
game fish in the tank. I love feeding them, but no,
I never caught them. My brother and I did try
and catch that plico once or twice. Yeah, but it
was but it was hard, Which is kind of going
to tie into the rest of this story, because the
thing is, they are apparently indestructible. So according to the piece,
and doesn't this sound familiar snakehead lovers, they can breathe
(35:40):
out of water for quote at least twenty hours and
walk on land. How they would calculate this at roughly
two point three miles per hour one of them, Yeah,
that's what that's that's what okay? For how long? Like
if it can move apparently up to twenty hours, If
it can breathe out of water for at least twenty
hours and walk two point three I would I have
(36:03):
friends that cannot maintain a two point three base. They
can get from Center City to the Philly Airport in
thirteen point nine minutes. I don't know, um anyway, One
of the most common ways they get moved is by birds,
because plecos are really easy targets, but they are so
sharp and hard and spiky that a bird usually drops
(36:26):
them pretty quickly, and assuming they survived the fall, depending
on how high up they are um quote, the fish
could potentially walk for hours until it finds a body
of water that's horrifying. That sucks. They can't swim for
more than ten minutes straight, so how they can walk
for hours? I don't understand. They're a lazy as fish. Um. Now.
(36:50):
While these fish are primarily eating algae and plant matter,
they do compete with some native species for food. But
the story says they've also taken over in parts of Florida,
and they're so many in some places they'll actually swarm
manatees to eat the algae off their skin. And there
can be so many plecos on on the manateee that
it gets severely stressed out like mad manatees stress. So
(37:13):
that's clearly an issue. If you're in the manatees story,
to tell you when we're off the air in a minute, Okay,
fair enough, I do too, kind of now, everybody's gonna
be curious. Yeah, mine ends with a cracked transom on
a flat skiff anyway. Um So, a bigger issue with
the catfish than what they eat is actually how they
(37:35):
like to burrow in soft banks, and the people in
Texas are worried that's gonna ramp up bank erosion and
like destabilized river banks and things more quickly. Uh So,
you know invasives never good, right of course, but this
one has absolutely no silver lining. And I'm not surprised
this happened because those fish, I don't know about yours,
(37:57):
but they eventually get big in your tank and they
live forever. So whether it outgrows the tank, you just
decide to like go to college, and you don't want
your tank anymore, like pet stores don't want those things back. Right,
you can't flush it because it would be like flushing
a metal porkupin Right, you can run it over with
a truck and it'll be fine. Um, but in the wild,
it's not good for bait. It's nothing you can target.
(38:19):
It's just pretty worthless. So my opinion banned them, like, honestly,
if they're that much of a problem, we've banned so
many other aquarium fish that were much prettier and more interesting,
you know what I mean, like hashtags stop the pleco
Uh they're stupid fish anyway, So you know, it really
is like an interesting thing. Um, it's weird to think
(38:40):
that when you're talking about buying like mamillion creatures or
like like like a like a servile cat or something
like that spider monkey. Yeah, there's so much red tape
and like, right of those things finding each other in
the wild, even if you were to release them is
(39:01):
not particularly high up there. Yet you can buy like
all sorts of like invasive fish, and you can buy
breathing populations basically of invasive fish. Yep, there could easily
find their way into a waterway, and like that's like
still totally okay because it's fish, dude, it's underwater. Only
certain people care. People in the neighborhood will be worried
(39:21):
about a couple of loose spider monkeys. They don't give
a ship that there's armored catfish in the pond out there.
That's just that's just the reality. That's just the reality. Anyway. Um, Yeah,
there you go. Everybody who wrote in thank you for
that one armored catfish. Done and done, Let's go to Phil.
What does he want swimming in his river? Hatchery steelhead
or plecos And after we hear from Phil, we're actually
(39:43):
gonna hit end of the line. And this segment is
kind of the antithesis of an article I published this
week on the Meat Eater site for misconceptions about mousing
for trout. About that, so give that a read. And
if you decide mousing for trout sounds like too much work,
forget that article and pay even closer attention and to
the forthcoming end of the line segment. Hey, Hayden, you're
(40:08):
the winner this week. I just can't help but feel
bad for these hatchery steelhead. I mean, that would be
kind of like if a human were to spend most
of their formative years playing trombone and video games, and
then eventually down the road, maybe they got a job
in an office full of self sustaining hunters and outdoors people.
(40:28):
I mean, can you imagine what that would do to my,
I mean, this person's self esteem. M hm, well that's
not loud enough, Burt. If you listen to my last
(40:49):
end of the line on Swiss wings, you know I
have a soft spot for fishing related nostalgia, So it
should come as no surprise that we're going to walk
down those familiar back roads again now with a bait.
I believe every angler has had an experience with at
one point or another. I think everyone knows the smell
that musty, sweet, funky odor emanating from pretty much every
(41:11):
tackle box you know. It just smells like fishing. I
also think that everyone who has used this particular item
has had the shared experience where after a day on
the water, you walk in and a loved one gives
you a kind of amused look, then gets closer and
says you have glitter on your face. Of course, I'm
talking about power Bait. Now. Power Bait is actually the
(41:34):
brand name for a bunch of Berkeley Soft plastic creations,
but the forum I'm talking about is known as power
Bait Dough. Before we get into power Bait, let's clarify something.
Berkeley has been around for a while. The company was
founded in seven by a young man named Berkeley Biddell,
selling flies in Spirit Lake, Iowa. Let's fast forward it's
(41:55):
the mid eighties and Berkeley has since been taken over
by Berkeley Baddell's son, Tom, looking out for the next
big thing. Tombadel becomes focused on attractings and unless the
help of Dr Hermann Clear Cooper, a fisheries biologist from
Texas A and M who invents Strike. Berkeley's first scent product, Strike, however,
(42:17):
had a major flaw. It was a topical scent product
and washed off baits easily. But Dell knew he needed
to develop a longer lasting attracting and puts chemist John
proc Now and fisheries biologist Dr. Keith Jones up to
the task. Through meticulous research, over the span of three years,
proc Now and Jones began to develop what become power
(42:38):
bait by reverse engineering natural prey, breaking that prey down
into basic molecular components and amino acids. To test the
palatability of these individual elements, they soak cotton balls in
their formulas and fed them to fish in their lab.
They soon discovered that no single element was having the
effect that they wanted, so they began testing combinations of
(42:59):
natural and synthetic compounds. These combinations proved to be more effective,
and they eventually landed on an attractive formula we know
today as power bait. Power bait comes in many forms,
notably it's integrated into Berkeley Soft Plastics. But the form
I'm most familiar with is the power bait dough. As
any stocker fisherman knows, those pellet has just can't seem
(43:20):
to resist that sent and fused plato floating, tantalizing lee
just off the bottom. I still remember fishing Salt and
Creek with my grandpa and him carefully showing me how
to need little corn kernel size balls of this stuff,
then how to carefully mold it around my hook. An
interesting note about Berkeley power Bait dough. Many folks seem
to think it's toxic, and that's not the case. The
(43:42):
dough itself is made of a heat treated mixture of
PVC powder and oil resin and is completely digestible, although
it is very obviously not for human consumption, so please
leave leading to the fish. If you've got something on
the end of your line that you think belongs on
the end of our line, feel free to write into
Bent at the meat eater dot com with your suggestions,
(44:04):
and if you got a good story about power bait,
send that into you know what man. I vividly remember
the very first time I ever used power bait for trout.
Like I remember hanging out at my grandparents house the
night before opening day of the trout season in Jersey,
and my grandfather, Um, he'd just gotten back from the
bait shop, and you know, he picked up our nightcrawlers
(44:26):
and mealies and salmon eggs and he busted out this
jar of power bait and said something like, you know, here,
here's some here's some new ship. That guy was saying,
we'll catch more trout than anything, like super skeptical. Like
it was almost like an ad on sale, like the
guy got him here. Sorry, you should try this, you
know how it works. You know, I honestly don't recall
if that O G bottle of orange PB caught trout
(44:49):
or not an opening day, but it must have, because
like my grandfather was never without it again, you know
what I mean, Like from there on out he had
power bait, and I even think he kind of phased
out salmon eggs in favor of it. So I definitely
called fish. I just don't remember if it did the
first time out, you know. Yeah. Yeah. The thing that
you know, I I mentioned this and the thing but
(45:10):
the thing that I think about when I think of
power bait is like it was almost like every person
used power bait to try and like seam seal the
inside of pockets, and they're like old school fishing vests,
you know what I mean. Like everything it would be
like it just had a way of like crusting in there,
and like I just feel like every like cre would
be in your zippers, yeah, be everywhere that Yeah, because
(45:32):
you would you would get it on your fingers and
like wipe it here, and then it would lock into
the FACTI I feel like I can smell it right now.
But you know, whatever gets your limit right, yeah, oh totally, totally. Well,
you know it's perfect that you bring up trout fishing
is a little kid, because we've got a question the
bent Helpline this week that speaks to any parents or
(45:53):
grandparents out there that have a little limit catching machines,
like young Joe used to be. What do you laughing at?
You're not an idiot, you're not a gamblooning help more,
You're a fisherman. What's your emergency? All right? Uh So
today on the bent Helpline, we have a question from
(46:17):
Evan Taylor, who writes Dear Ben. Let's say I am
fishing in a state where human does not need a
fishing license until there are fourteen. That's an interesting way
to say a kid. It's a very interesting way to
put it. Yeah, and let's say I like how this
all like framed and hypothetical. And let's say the daily
limit for bluegill and said state is twenty five for
(46:39):
easy math per day. If I have my kids who
are seven and five out fishing, does that mean my
cooler could theoretically have seventy five blue gill in it?
Or is the limit twenty five because I am the
only one who paid for a license. Now, of course,
anyone who's fished with kids, no, you're never going to
limit with them along. But SI signed Evan Taylor. M hmm,
(47:06):
you got any thoughts on that? Because I do you
know what, man, I don't have kids. This is something
that has never come up for me. I'm gonna let
you deal with this one entirely. I'm just gonna sit
back and listen. Yeah, And dear God, I hope I'm
not giving out wrong information here. But my understanding has
always been that if that basically legal is legal. In
other words, if you don't need a license within your
(47:28):
state till your fourteen. I think in some states it's
it's fifteen, maybe thirteen, it varies. But point being, if
you are not of legal age for a license, you
are still legal in the state's eyes to be out fishing.
So just thinking back to when I was growing up
and you know, fishing with my dad, Like on opening
day at trout, I would have my stringer and he
(47:52):
would have his stringer. You know what I mean? Um,
you know, I yes, I in theoretically you know now
where where it gets gray is Um, I I've I've
I've seen instances where you know, the kids aren't really
fishing too hard, Dad puts his twelve on the stringer.
(48:16):
That's shitty, Like that's that's that's sort of Also that
um you know, gets into that argument of like when
your saltwater fishing, is it cool for the captain to
keep his limit for the day too if you want
to bring home more whatever fluke or salmon on the
Great Lakes? But I think I mean, if you're if
your aim is true and your heart is pure, okay,
(48:40):
and um you you really you really want your seventy
five blue gills or whatever, and your kids are legit
catching them. Um. Yeah, legally, I think absolutely, your your
child is legal to fish and pretty sure that the
same limits would would apply there. Yeah. Um, now, what
if you were hooking the fish and the kids were
(49:01):
reeling them in? And I have a follow up question
of this you have? But see, now you're getting into
semantics like that's the that's the problem with this, like
is it? Let me ask you this, Let me ask
you this. Here's the follow up. What is the difference
between that and being on a charter fishing where the
first mate is the one hooking all the fish and
you're just reeling them in and gripping, grinning with them.
(49:26):
Plenty of people do that and keep well, sure they do.
But but again, man like, so in that scenario, if
you're out on a charter boat, right, and uh, I mean,
first of all, if I'm on a charter boat where
the maid is hooking the fishing hand, he's gonna that
is like a pet peeve of mine. I will not
take a a rod. I will not take I will
(49:47):
not be handed a rock. I got you. God, I
hate that, right, I hate that. But I would say, um,
you know, if you're if you're newbies, rookies, you booked
a charter somewhere, you know, and the maids setting the
hook on the troll or whatever it may be on
it doesn't matter, on the bottom, and he's handing you
the rod and you're okay with that, like that doesn't
(50:09):
bother you. As long as you're only taking your limit
as the angler, then what's the difference? You know what
I'm saying. But what I'm comparing that too is like
the kid on opening day where his dad is hooking
the trout and like letting him reel the trout in.
Now you kind of implied that you didn't think like
(50:30):
maybe that was so cool. No, no, no no, no, you're
misunderstanding completely. What I'm saying is, no, you are misunderstanding
what I'm saying. What I'm saying is there's I think
there's a little more leeway in taking your kid fishing
and your kids standing there fishing with you in the
water wade and sitting in the lawn chair whatever, and
(50:51):
maybe he's too little, so you hook one and handing
the rod. I mean, this is something I never have
to worry about because I'm I don't care about keeping
a limit right now of anything that my young kids
would catch. Like we're not doing that right, so that
that that's one thing what I'm saying is you go fishing,
you bring your kid, Your kids off running around in
(51:12):
the woods, are looking for fairies, flipping rocks and completely
unengaged in what you're doing. But you're going to keep
his or her six trout to if you're using them
as a body, so that if somebody flagged you, you'd
be like, well, I caught these six, and a little
timmy here caught the other six. You know. But it's
I mean, it's it's getting in the it's ultimately getting
(51:34):
in the weeds, you know. It's it's it's about you.
It's about effort. If you put in the effort, then
it's like whatever. If you're using them is like a
justification to keep you know, X amount of fish without
the expectation that they're going to be actively involved in
catching said fish, then that's what you don't like. Yeah,
I mean, all all Evans question really spoke to more
(51:55):
was the legality of it. Can I keep that a limit?
You know? Again, my two kids, I hope Evans not
like rounding up all the kids in the neighborhood. I'm
taking them all fishing. I don't know what the guy's
m O is, right, we can't. We don't read minds.
I'm sure that's not it. It's actually it's it's a
good question, you know. Yeah. And if he's a listener
to Ben, I'm sure that he is just an upstanding
(52:16):
member of society. Or he could be a degenerate angler.
Degenerate angler, you don't know, but yeah, listen, I just
just to sort of cover our asses. Maybe this varies
in different states. I'm not sure, but I mean I
I hold licenses in multiple states every year for freshwater.
You know, grew up traveling fish and fished all over.
(52:39):
I've never heard of such a thing where, you know,
a legal a legal unlicensed angler, meaning a little kid
I couldn't keep fishing, couldn't couldn't keep their fish or
keep their limits. Yeah, no rules there, it sounds right. Well. Anyway,
that's a great question, Evan, Thank you very much for
sending it into Ben. If you have questions yourself, you
can send him to either Joe on his Instagram, you
(53:02):
can send them to me on my Instagram. You can
send him into the bent inbox at bent at the
Meat Eater dot com. Um and yeah, send your question
via text, send in a voice memo. We like those
and you could hear yourself. You're texting them to my number?
Did you give out your number? Who did you text
them to? You said, send him in via text? Did
you give out your number publicly? Yeah? My number five
(53:25):
F five I meant in in a text based format. Yeah. Yeah. Look,
send your questions in and we'll do our best to
answer him on the Bent helpline. So that's it for
this week. Remember if you're taking the kids out with
the power bait looking for your makeo limbit, if it roars,
(53:47):
set it free. Also, please please keep those sale band items,
awkward photos, helpline questions, bar nominations, and all that good
stuff coming to Bent at the Meat Eater dot com. Yeah,
and keep using those Bent podcasts and degenerate angler hashtags.
And for the love of God, please stop suggesting quizzes
for me. No, no, keep suggesting them. What other movies
(54:09):
should we quiz? Haden on Perfect Storm, Mighty Ducks, Open Everything. Yeah,
I'm open to everything except Half Baked, because that would
just be too easy. He
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.