Ep. 81: Tequila Spot Burn Cream

This week, we boop the nose of a bait-stealing otter, tell you how to tie a little deer-hair cocktail umbrella that won’t impress anyone, help you choose knives or chains to deal with a buddy that blew up your honey hole, and spin the perfect mouse pattern for ruining someone’s wedding.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey guys, before we get started here, your boy messed
something up with the recording. I mean, for those of
you who don't know, Joe and I live on two
separate parts of the country, so we do a lot
of our recording via zoom and I managed to mess
that up this week, so the audio quality isn't gonna

(00:20):
be quite what you're used to. Um, this is my fault.
I'm sorry. Please don't stop listening to the podcast forever
and ever. All right, let's get to it. What do
you do when you take a buddy to a spot
and then show up in that spot and he is

(00:41):
there with someone else that you don't know? What do
you do? Then in the shot glass there's you know,
it's filled with epoxy and at the bottom of that
is a tied te kilo worm. What is the weirdest
thing that you've ever called? Foul ball? Hit by Muky Wilson.
The Quintussentio Honey Drift to Curler mouse By is my

(01:02):
current supercent. Good morning to Jennered anglers, and welcome to Bent,
the fishing podcast that has spent way more money on
laura and flymaking materials than the number of lawyers and flies.
It is actually produced, and I made it, samac and
I feel your pain, dude, because uh, I mean that's

(01:26):
that's what happens, you know. Yeah. Well I don't know
about you, man, but like here's the trap that I
fell into when I first started tying flies I made up.
It looked as if I was trying to make potions.
With the shopping lists that I put together. It was like,
oh yeah, I of peacock, uh mane of moose, and inevitably,

(01:52):
I mean, like the thing is is like you go
and you get a book that's like kind of like
the first thing, and it has all the patterns in it.
There was a series of mim I forget what they
were called, but they were like kind of coil bound books, man,
and each one of them had like, you know, a
hundred two hundred patterns in it, and you would go
through these yeah, and you would go through these things
and you'd be like, oh, well, if it's in here,

(02:14):
I obviously needed. So you'd end up with like like
jungle cock eyes and ship you know, just like it
you don't need, no, yeah, no, no, well yeah dude,
so I bought I mean, yeah, you're right, like you
can get carried away with lists and books. I also
I'll just find like you you go to buy like,
you know, buck tail, but then you see cool popper heads,
so you're like, oh, those are cool, and then you're like, oh,

(02:35):
that would look great with this, and then you just
buy all this material for flies you didn't even intend
to make. In fact, somebody even wanted. Like somebody gave
me a tube fly adapter for my advice years ago,
and it's sat here, and then one day I saw
it and I'm like, I'm about this, And I went
out and bought all the ship to make tube flies,
thinking I'd use them for trout, and I made three.

(02:56):
I didn't. I didn't really like them or catch anything
with him. But the thirty dollars worth material I just
for the tube flies is still sitting here, like I've
done all the things. Have you ever tried to build
yourself a rod? When I was in ninth grade, I
bought one of those like Cabela's rod making kids, And

(03:16):
I remember I remember spending Halloween in high school and
um spent all night trying to trying to build a
rod that didn't It ended up working. Okay, what actually
ended up happening to It was I didn't see the
blank far enough in the in the court grip there,
and I hooked a really big fish. I was. It

(03:37):
was actually you know, as I so often call out
on y, This was on lake wall and pop pack um.
I still remember. I was trying to catch like some panfish,
and I was on this dock, and this dock was
on a drop, and I was fishing this little white
streamer and all of a sudden, I'm kind of like
watching the streamer come back towards me through the water

(03:58):
and it gets about over this rop where it drops
from like a shoal to I don't know, like thirty
ft or something, and I just see the shape come
up and it was a striper, and yeah, the striper
waxed this thing. I set the hook and immediately like
the ride just like disintegrate to my hand, and it

(04:18):
broke in the grip. So now I was out a
hundred dollars um, and being in ninth grade, the might
as well have been ten thousand dollars, because like I, I
I sure wasn't gonna buy another court grip for this thing,
not to mention like it would involve like scraping the
epoxy off the end of the blank. So what I
did was I bored a hole through a bunch of

(04:41):
wine corks that my mother had a you know, I
didn't say yeah, yeah, yeah, And I cut the top
end of it off with wire cutters about two and
a half feet, threaded it through the hole in the corks.
And that show is a story of my first ice
fishing rock. Oh there you go, repurposed it. That's good.

(05:02):
See I didn't even do that. See, I got sucked
into it um one year and because I literally I
stumbled across discount blanks. There were some blanks in a
flea market and they were super cheap, and I also
found out later they were also jumped. You have known better, Joe. Yeah,
But here's the thing. I never gave rod building a
thought until that was in front of me. But like

(05:23):
ten bucks for five blanks turned into under it in
rod building material. I built one and it sucked. And
here's why. So also because quick man, you know what
the biggest problem with rod building is what it's so boring.
It's not the most fun unless you're really good at well,
even if you're really good at diamond wraps and stuff,

(05:44):
that's tedious work. I'll tell you what. I'll tell you
what if your favorite part about tying flies is like
building a good threadhead, then rod building rod building is
for you. Yeah. So here's what I did. This was
way back in the day, right, and I had just
gotten back from a trip to Quebec, h and I

(06:06):
shot a buck. So I thought it would be rad
to work a piece of the handler to the grip.
But it's just really hurt my hand, Like it was
just really stupid. Like I don't know why you would
do that. Well, you know what, man, you see all
these like, um my, I do have a friend, uh
Joey McAvoy who if you're in Pennsylvania. Yeah, he has

(06:30):
a He has a guide service called Captain Joe's Guide Service.
I might have to like redo that and plug it better,
but it's Captain Joe's Guide Service. I think he'd Lake
Harmony is like one spot that he guides on, which
is fun. Man. He does like a lot of cool
trips to post him on Instagram, and um he builds
rods too, but he builds a lot of the handles

(06:53):
out of like laithe turned wood. And I was always
interested in how that would be because like, on one hand,
you feel like could be uncomfortable, but on the other hand,
if it's like turned the right wings extremely like ergonomic,
it's like video game controllers don't really hurt your hands
and they're not made out of super like soft cork. Yeah.
I have a couple of customers that have really pretty

(07:14):
would turn handles, and they're they're okay, I mean to me,
like the ones I have are like really heavily varnished
in a pox seed, So it's great un till there's
fish slime on them. They're slipperies. He well, I'm sure
that I'm sure that Captain Joe's rods are not like that,
and I'm sure they're not. I think sure they're not.
And also it is Captain Joe's fishing. Just just if

(07:36):
you're if you're wondering, I gotta do my boy favor, man,
I gotta you gotta set them up anyway, While I
know that we have some very talented rod builders that
listen to this show, like my buddy Captain Joe. For
those of you that don't build your own rods or
botch them like another Captain Joe, that being Joe sir

(07:57):
Mellie and Hayden, you botched your too, I did about
to be fair, I was, uh, you need to get
friendly with our sponsors fishing. You do you do if
if you suck at building your own lords or pouring
your own soft flask, that you should link up with
them as well. Just throw that out there, but yes,
you should be familiar with them. I mentioned last week

(08:18):
that I had a few of thirteens pan fish trout
prototype rods um just a few days ago. Man, they
sent me the production models along with some some mini
kalen Sea reels. Let me tell you what like they've
done with the omen pan fish trout rods. What bass
companies do in that the range of models within the
series is pretty impressive. I really if they have a
five ft six inch ultra light that I love for spinners,

(08:42):
especially on smaller streams because the short rods really accurate,
and then a seven footer it's just the bomb for
for small hair jigs are like running afloat and jig
because the lank and softness lets you set the hook
from like a mile away. Really cool stuff. Killer rods
that is like one of the things that very much
impresses me about thirteen Fishing. It's like the breadth of

(09:05):
models that they put out, you know what I mean,
Like if you're trying to get into like some very
specialized fishing and you're really trying to like fine tune
your setup, I would say like a deep dive into
the thirteen Fishing catalog is uh, definitely worth your time
in consideration. And I'm excited to use uh, you know,

(09:26):
some of their open water rods, but I haven't gotten
I've gotten to those yet because it's uh, I mean,
as we're recording this up where I'm meant to be
fishing this week, it's like negative twenty two. Um. But
but I've been biting my indoor time to tie some
flies between these bouts of ice fishing. And I've always

(09:47):
been curious about how a fly makes a leap to
like commerci like you know how like sometimes you're tieing
something and you're like, I can sell this like this
this is a good this is a cool pattern. I know. Um,
now you, Joe, you have one of the premier mouse
patterns is credited to uh, to our very own Joe

(10:07):
sor Mellie Man. Yeah, the Mr. Splinter has made the
leap to commercial. I have one. It's my one. It's
the only one I'll ever had. Do you want to
know what the secret is to getting it there? I
just knew a guy. That's the secret. I just I
just knew a guy who would say yes, Um no,
I'm I'm I'm kidding. I mean, I didn't know a guy.
But that's really not all kidding aside there there is

(10:30):
more to it than that, um, some of which will
explore today in our Smooth Move segment. Now, normally this
is where we let guides and captains tell us about
wacky ship their clients have done. But we're putting a
little different spin on it at the vice. But I'm
bumped this week with my old friend Brian Schmidt. Why

(10:55):
so this is a little bit different. Um, you know,
smooth Moves, it's often a captain or a guy, but
we like to incorporate all people in the fishing industry
where applicable. So joining us today is my old buddy
Brian Schmidt, now currently of Brian Schmidt Bates. Right, you're
you're still you're still making the baits. I see them
on Instagram. Yeah yeah, yeah, so I I know you

(11:15):
make a ton of bass jigs that looks really really cool.
But it started out with wooden rats. I still have
your rats. You're still making the rats, the big swimmer rats.
You know, I haven't made one in a while. I
don't have I don't have my witch shops set up
right now. It's all kind of between my garage and
in storage. So yeah, unfortunately I can't. I can't get
to those at the moment. But I miss making those. Man,

(11:37):
those were a lot of fun. You know, I've been
seeing a lot as I get more into like the
fishing realm of things is a fishing podcast hosts want
to do. Um, I keep running into these, like these
giant wooden rat luers. I kind of assumed that they

(11:59):
were just for uh almost just for show man. Are
those like legit to people? Like? Are people whacking ship
on them? Absolutely? Yeah, I always I always thought it
was kind of like a double edged sword maybe like Brian,
If you'll agree on one hand, yes, they are just
kind of cool trendy to look at, Like, there is
that part of it, but like dudes in the know, man,

(12:21):
like you could do some gnarly stuff with big rat
top water swimmers. Are you hitting like large mouths with them.
Is that most most that's that's mostly what they're for. Um.
But yeah, man, I was wondered maybe if you weren't
making as many rats because they were on the down
swinging trendiness. However, you just said the wood shops not

(12:41):
set up. However, we did not bring you here to
to talk about baits, although we could all day and
I highly recommend everybody listening check out Brian Schmidt baits,
especially if you're a best dude. But we got to
talk about your former life before full time bait maker.
Remind me how many years you were the guy at
Unqua Fly that vetted every single submission that came through

(13:06):
from the tying hopefuls around the world looking to get
their patterned in the catalog and commercialized. Yeah, that was
That was almost ten years. Almost ten years of my
life I spent looking at people's quote unquote work. So well,
let me ask you something, man, because I've always been

(13:26):
like kind of interested in this. When I was a kid,
I was interested in fly tying, and I'm still interested
in fly tying. But like I would make these things,
I'd be like, oh, like I had a fly fishing
mentor I've mentioned before this bus driver Tony, and I
would show him this fly that I made, and he'd
be like, well, that's just a I don't know, like

(13:47):
a pheasant tails soft tackle variation. That's just a you know,
this variation, that variation. What what would you say, Like,
at what point do you go, oh, that's like a
different fly. Yeah? That was the That was that absolutely
best part of my job as far as looking at flies,
was you know, trying to find those those particular bugs.

(14:10):
You know, Um, you gotta understand kind of like what
what I was doing on a day to day basis
as far as Yeah, I was getting in looking at
a lot of flies, but we were looking for something
in particular, looking for something specific, not necessarily a batis
a merger, not that specific, but we were looking for innovation.

(14:32):
We were looking for something that did not scream pheasant
tail because it looked just like a pheasant tail. Because
you're not going to pay someone a royalty for another
pheasant tail. And so there was that aspect of it
that really it made the job a whole lot harder
because you really had the you had to dig into

(14:53):
why they were sending you what they were sending you. So, uh, yes,
the big the biggest fly manufacturer, they're going to get
whatever is you're going to get the guy who doesn't
understand why uncle exists and he wants to show off
that he took a fly class last week and look
at this wooly bugger I made. Doesn't understand that we're

(15:15):
not going to pay you anything for that because you
were one of how many people in that particular class?
How many classes went on that Tuesday? Now, dude, right?
So so what like what did catch your eye? What
caught my eye was innovative use of materials, innovative choice

(15:35):
of materials, and ultimately what really what really got me
excited was simplicity and a reason for the bug in
front of me. So when I would open up, okay,
I would have a pile of boxes and envelopes on
my desk in the morning, all submissions, and I you

(15:57):
could tell right off of the bat which ones you
wanted to open first because of the care they took
in packaging it. Yeah, you know that alone speaks volumes
of what you're about to see. In most cases, not
always right right? I mean one in particular, you can
wrap up a turd, real pretty man, I'll tell you.

(16:19):
I'll give you a great example of a wtf did
you bother to send me this thing? Why? I don't
even understand why. You know, well, wait a minute, hold
on one second before you do that, because that's kind
of that's kind of why we're having Brian on because
I thought, man, it would be fun all those years.
And I should also point out that you personally, you know,
came up with some incredible bugs during your tenure there.

(16:41):
I still throw the Schmidder schmitter bait and the schmitter bug,
which is the only fly I'm aware of that was
modeled after the jitterbug. So um, you know you you've
done this for a very long time. So that's what
we thought would be fun. Like, there have to be
some standouts before we get into there, because I I
know Joeys just gritting his teeth at how I'm derailing

(17:02):
this conversation, or maybe you want to get to the funny.
I want to hear about the w TS question, dude,
I'm just like voraciously curious man. Go man that I'm
not Dude. I've known Brian for a long time and
I'm always fascinated by this like that job and there
because there's so many people out there that that want

(17:22):
that so badly. So to have the guy that looked
at all those submissions ask away. Okay, um, you know,
I think an interesting way to contextualize you, Brian, for
our listeners. Is there a specific fly that many many
folks know that you bought to market via like a submission?

(17:44):
Oh god, yeah, the game Changer. Yeah, we had the
game Changer first. All right, yeah, um, you know as
far as what what people submitted and you know, making
getting excited and making that happen, that's a that's a
big one. Um. I mean most of Charlie Craven's Yeah,

(18:06):
I mean everything in the past. You know, while I
was there for ten years, a lot of that stuff was.
I mean, the guy's brilliant. You can you can drop
an idea on his on his plate and in a
week you've got exactly what you hoped for. So to
give you an example, okay, So the Juju series, Okay,

(18:27):
those all came out, you know while I was at Umpqua,
and it was like, hey, you know RS two sell
like unbelievably well, Um, your Juju sell It's like unbelievably well,
do you smell what I'm stepping in here, buddy, and
he's like, oh, the juju r as to emerge her.
I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I go for that. Yeah,

(18:48):
you know yeah that so oh on my side, I
got to see trends of sales too, and things that
would sell. And if Charlie Craven's name was attached to
it was gonna sell. And if it was a really
highly sought after pattern period, it was gonna sell. So
you blend those things together and holy you know, the

(19:09):
guy can come up with stuff, you know. Yeah. Um,
so a lot of those patterns came out. You know
that people, I mean, everybody knows those patterns. Um, does
that answer your question? Is that what you totally? Totally
It's exactly what I was interested in, man, that is
exactly what I was interested So I will now cease
to derail the conversation and I will pass it over

(19:30):
to Joe. Joe, we can talk about the greats all day.
I mean, yeah, Charlie Craven, awesome, Blaine Chocolate with the
game changer. But like, having talked to you in the past,
like you you were saying like you would get these
crumpled envelopes and It's like, why would you send a
fly that you want us to consider so poorly? So
so hit us, man, give us some examples of the
ones that have stuck with you after a decade of like,

(19:51):
I can't believe somebody just sent me this. Well, one
in particular was I remember when hairline came out with
fluoresce and be chein and you know, so this goes
back aways and within like a month, Man, I had
this envelope that it was smushed to begin with. It
was just like a letter envelope, and inside it we're

(20:16):
some like bait holder hooks, micro bait holder hooks and
white thread that they just lashed this colored be chain too,
and inch worms those were the green ones, the San
Juan worms was were the hot pink ones, and they
were all labeled differently. Right, they just made worms out

(20:38):
of a piece of bee chain and white thread on
a bait hold. Nailed it, nailed it genius, right. I
was surprised you didn't get Like, I'm surprised you didn't
just get like two of those little be chains on
that bait holder hook with a white thread and somebody
be like, this is a milted egg. Yeah, you know
that well that, you know, to give the guy credit.
Pretty I think it was a guy regardless, UM, give

(21:02):
give that person credit. The inch worm was exactly one inch.
He did cut that, you know. Yeah, so that was
one and it's just you open it up and you
you look at it and you're like, well, I responded
to everybody. You know, I had to, you know, I
wanted to let him know that it got there and
in what condition and if that's not the condition that

(21:23):
they meant it to be in, then you know, please
try again. UM and or hey we're interested in We're
not um and those some of those just leave your
scratch in your head, like do we pretend to got
lost in the mail? Like? You know, I don't want to.
It's gonna be an insult with no matter what I
say it, I don't mean it to be. But yeah,
you know. The funny thing about that one, though, is

(21:44):
I mean, I'm sure, I hate to say it, but
they'd probably catch fish. And if you needed to get
like a San Juan down in a run real quick,
I'm sure it would work. But I think the idea
of that becoming a commercial pattern, like that's where that misses.
That's what I need to know, would never like you're
not making that? Oh? I mean, can I guarantee it's

(22:04):
like one of the best croppy bluegill things you could
tie on, you know what I mean, like just got
under a bobber and wait, you know, and it's like
a great tip, but a terrible flock. Absolutely, you know.
And it's a great it's a great thought press process,
but but by no means royalty worthy, you know. And
if we're gonna tie up fingers, you know, this is

(22:26):
another thing I had to think about. Two. If we're
gonna tie up fingers, and then I mean when I'm
saying fingers factory time tying. Yeah, yeah, if we're gonna
tie up fingers, do we want them time red size
eighteen copper John's or or these right righte all month long? Man? Yeah?
You know, so the size yeah, those like you know,

(22:50):
what's what's good? Yeah, not gonna We're not gonna do that.
What was the smallest size atoms you guys sold? Oh gosh,
I bet you it was a twenty I think it
was a twenty six while I was there, jeez, I
think and I know we did. We did special patterns
for for shops that were smaller um but wow, but

(23:14):
you know those were Yeah, those were Silver Creek Outfitters
and this is that they were going to go through
them and they kind of needed something like that, but
it wasn't necessary for everywhere. You know. Yeah, yeah, got
the eight dollar tarpin flies. Man size Adams should be
thirty bucks, no kidding, no kidding, And yeah you're not.

(23:36):
I've I've I have literally watched girls just crying their
eyes out trying to parachute is I'm not even joking,
And you just stand there feeling absolutely side of fly fishing.
Nobody thinks about you just go into the nice shop
and pick them out with the little tweezers and put
them in a cup. It's like a woman cried making
that absolutely bowled her eyes out, contemplated life as she

(23:59):
knew it. Man, you know absolutely for that stupid twenty
six that you're gonna stick in the tree Garante. So
what else you got? Man? Sometimes you get these really
really well packaged boxes and you open it up and
you're like, oh this there's something, this could be awesome,
and and yet you keep digging at it and you

(24:21):
open up this diorama and literal like seventh grade school diorama,
and there's shot classes glued to this little picnic table,
and in the shot glass there's clear you know, it's
filled with a POxy and at the bottom of that

(24:42):
is a tied tequilo worm and there's mono tied to
a Yeah that's awesome, man, I's sweet. So absolutely, you know,
this is the kind of thing that you're like, Oh,
I'm gonna parade this around the building and show everybody.
Whatever of these flies ended up as like desk toys.

(25:07):
Everyone that we speak of today we'll have in one way,
shape or form, Yeah, for a for a short period
of time, until it was you know, returned to them. Um.
But yeah, the diorama, there was a if I'm not
if I'm not mistaken, there was actually a an umbrella,
you know, like a cocktail umbrella that was spundy and

(25:29):
then glued to make it look like it was really
poorly done, but it was made to look like an umbrella. Okay,
So this whole diorama you get and you're like, again
scratching your head, like what am I exactly looking at?
Because is the killer worm? The fly? Is the umbrella?
The fly? Is this just a you know, right, you know,

(25:53):
I don't. Yeah, so that was another one that I
was just left scratching. Man, I didn't know. I didn't
know what the of it. I didn't know. I didn't
really know what to do with it. Um. I couldn't
even get to the to the tequila fly because it was,
you know, under a POxy into the shot gun. Yeah. Yeah,
it did have mondo tied to it so that you
knew that it was to look at it, you know,

(26:14):
it did have but you had a little picnic table
that was made out of toothpicks, and uh at the
whole nine yards man, it was. It was a little
beach scene. It was. It was phenomenal. But but yeah,
what uh, I think you've given some great advice here
for anybody ag ainy of the hopefuls out there that
think they might have that pattern on what not to do.

(26:36):
But um, dude, let's let's let's leave it here, like
above all else, Like the the biggest thing to consider
if you're a fly tire and you're like, I think
this has chops, what's the number one thing like thing
to check off before you even go any further with it.
You really have to have a reason for why you
did it, man. I mean you have to know that
there isn't that it isn't duplicating something. And if it

(26:59):
seems as if it's duplicating something, there needs to be
an evolution of why the existing didn't work and you
needed to alter it. So that was that's what I
looked for. That was the innovation. Like I said before,
that was what I was looking for, you know. And
to be very honest with you, the Juju is probably,
in my mind, one of and this may sound silly

(27:21):
because of how simple it is, it's probably one of
the most innovative trout patterns out there because it took
something absolutely not trout midge pattern material and made exactly
what it should be. Sure sure. So in other words,
this fly catches a lot of fish for me and
my boys. Is not necessarily like a great jumping off points.

(27:45):
It's not. It's not not not unless your boys happened
to own like a really veil Valley Anglers or something,
you know, something like that. And that's the other thing
to think about too. You know, if you walk into
these shops, whether it's a flas shop or a retail
bass shop, every peg is taken, every fly box then
is filled filled you you need to you need to

(28:08):
relocate something to have yours in that real estate, right
you know, so if you look at a board of
winning patterns and you're like, oh, mine isn't gonna fit
in here? No, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's the business
side of it. Well this was fun, man, it was
good catching up. Hey, do you have any more questions

(28:30):
before we sign off here? I feel like you like
you're thinking. I could see you thinking, mm hmmm, um uh,
I can think I have some follow up questions, Joe.
You and I have been kicking around, ah, you know,

(28:50):
in an idea for a segment called Makers, So maybe
we'll have to revisit sometimes down the line. What do
you think about that? Brian would definitely fit if we
if we end up kicking off a maker's segment of
the show, for sure. Anyway, everybody needs to look up
Brian Schmidt Bates, that's all one word, correct, Brian on
the instagrams and uh yeah, and follow him because he

(29:11):
makes some some some badass stuff. And one thing I
can say about you is you are absolutely not making
anything to catch Fisherman. Everything has a reason, just like
you've talked about with the flies and um, it is
all very good stuff. So yeah, man, if we kick
off some maker segment down the road, we will have
you back. But in the meantime, dude, thank you, thank
you for the the funny fly fail stories. Yeah yeah, guys,

(29:33):
it was fun. Thank you for having me. So we
hinted at that segment about people who make stuff in fishing,
and props to you, Hayden. That was that was Hayden's
idea was Yeah, no, it was your credit yourself. Damnit. Uh,
let us know what you think about that, because we
really do value your opinion and we'd be curious to hear, um,

(29:54):
how many of you guys would be interested in something
like that. As a big fan of the show How
It's Made, I'm all for it. Yeah, you you also
like How It's Made? There, Joe, do you like How
It's Mad? Do you really? I see? I figured you, like,
I figured you were gonna give me crap for that. No, no,
no, no no, what I like? Here's the thing, man, here's

(30:14):
the thing. I can't stand to watch it that like,
I don't like it's hard for me to just watch
something that's like purely entertainment, like Family Guy is like
not something I'm interested in. It has to have some
sort of like even if it's drunk history. I watched
drunk History all the time because I'm like, Okay, well
it's funny, but I'm also like kind of learning some ship.

(30:34):
You know. I'm really surprised. I was expecting to get
some some flak for that, because it's like, at some
point robot Chicken loses its appeal and I just want
to like sit with a bourbon and listen to the
common narrative about how space heaters are made after a
long day. It's like it's like a sedative, but in
a very good way, you know how. Well, yeah, man,

(30:56):
I'm I'm gonna keep that in my back pocket next time.
I'm having trouble falling to sleep and I haven't watched
it in a little bit. But anyway, Uh, listeners, please
let us know how you feel about that maker segment
and let our audio engineer Phil know why you think
I was the dominator in this week's fish News. Fish

(31:17):
News that escalated quickly, real quick before we jump in,
you know, by listening to request. We spent a lot
of time on prostitutes on ice last week, which was
fun and formative at all. But um, some big things
also happened in Florida right recently that we've we've yet

(31:39):
to touch on, and we just want to do that
briefly here and you'll understand why. Um. Not long ago
I reported on what was a big win for Captains
for Clean Water. I say was, and that's going to
be important. Um. Back in November, the Army Corps of
Engineers finally revised its plan for how Lake Okeechobi's water
will get managed. As a reminder, um, Laco used to

(31:59):
let water naturally filter south to the Everglades, and that
water has now been diverted east and west, and that's
now killing the Everglades, it's starving them. At the time,
Captains for Clean Water said, you know, hey, look the
war is not over. But this new plan is a
great first step for the future the Everglades, as the
new plan made a lot more sense than m the

(32:21):
previous water management plans. So just a few short months ago,
this this felt like a step in the right direction. Yeah.
So uh, Now, the folks that benefit like the most
from water diversions are the folks in the sugar industry,
and in in Florida, that's known as big sugar. Right, Um,
these are incredibly influential people in Florida and now they're

(32:46):
trying to fast track bill s B two five zero eight.
And in simple terms, this bill is tied to budget
procedure and therefore is not intended to undergo like substantial
policy change. Uh. There would only be one chance for
public comment, and if it passes, Florida could be left
with outdated, like nineteen forties approach to managing their waterways.

(33:08):
It would also mean three million in Everglades restoration money
held hostage by the bills passing. So no good. Yeah,
it's it's a bad deal and it kind of came
up out of nowhere. So what we're encouraging you guys
to do to actually head over to the Meat Eatter
dot com and read the detailed story about this by
our colleague Maggie Hudlow. She was actually in Tallahassee on

(33:30):
the ground for the rally held by a ton of
captains to protest. Yeah, yeah, she was down there doing
her thing. And even if you don't read the story,
or if even if you don't ever plan to fish
in Florida, at minimum, take one minute to go to
Captain's for Clean water dot org and sign their petition.
It takes seconds. Uh, you don't get out on any

(33:50):
email lists, they promise, and I know for a fact
you won't. Just doing that can really make a difference. Yeah,
And while we're on this, like conservation be a little
bit here um listeners, Joe and I have been talking
and we came up with a little idea that we
I guess we'd also like your input on UM. We
only have so much time with you guys each week,

(34:12):
and because of that, we're only hitting one news story
of piece, and we like to have a little bit
of fun here on Ben. We don't want it to
be all like doom and gloom. We wanted to be entertaining,
but you know, we strive to kind of make a
combination here meet in the middle ground where we're giving
you some entertainment, but we're also giving you some like
important information, and sometimes that means that we're not able

(34:34):
to hit every conservation story out there. So we're going
to try something at the top of news starting next
week called Conservation Minutes. Yeah, because we think we think
it's important that you guys know what's going on. Even
if we're not detailing every one of those stories. So
this is gonna be just a very quick hit on
what's going on in the fish conservation realm, and of
course we'll keep working. The biggest stories are the ones

(34:57):
we think are our most important or interesting to all
right into the regular news coverage. But we're pumped to
try that. I think that'll be good. I think more informed.
I think it's gonna be good. And you know, we
have so many like talented colleagues over here at Meat
Eater that cover this stuff in ways that we might
not have time to in this like podcast format, so

(35:21):
you know, we'll we'll also be kind of directing you
to a bunch of that stuff. And man, I I
think it's gonna it's gonna be good. And I think
for the people who are really interested in that kind
of thing, like I am and like you are, Joe,
it's going to be kind of a valuable, like you know,
kind of what do they call it, like an aggregation
of important conservation news. Yeah, it basically just lets us,

(35:41):
you know, keep you keep you up on the important
stuff when like something so good like prostitutes on ice
comes along and we just can't leave that alone anyway.
So that's we did a joint report on prostitutes on
ice last week, which means getting back to normal. Here,
it's your lead this week. What do you got? Okay, Joe?

(36:02):
So I'm gonna start with the question, man, what is
the weirdest thing that you've ever caught? A foul ball
hit by Mooki Wilson bullshit. Yeah, I'm not kidding when
I was a little kid. Oh oh, I get it.
You're not You're catch got you? Okay, I'm messing with you.

(36:26):
I don't know, dude. I have caught so many weird
things that like, I don't even know. There's not one
that springs to mind, is like damn right right now,
we've all gone a barracuda in Jersey once. That's pretty weird.
A little tiny barracuda in Jersey about that. So we've
all gone out, we've all caught a non target species,

(36:46):
like you know, you're going for catfish or whatever and
you hit a I don't know, a barracuda in New
Jersey because those are definitely fresh and saltwater speak. But
have you ever have you ever caught the wrong class
of animal? Wrong class of animal, like the wrong phylum
in the in the in the Latin, I don't well

(37:08):
caught something that was an animal but not a fish.
I've hooked a million birds like throwing lures, a striper
blitz and like gulls, you know, every once in a while. See, man,
you don't gotta be about windmills. He don't gotta be
worried about windmills killing birds. It's just Joe Surmelie. Uh So.
So the story comes from NBC ten in Boston. Angler Keith,

(37:29):
I think it's pronounced plassan, which is uh it might
be anyway. Keith Keith was an ice fisherman from Massachusetts.
Uh And he knew he had something big on his
tip up, but I don't think he expected that something
to be thirty pounds and furry. You see, Keith caught himself.
There's a joke. There's a joke there. And what he

(37:49):
just said, I'll tell you what. I was ice fish
with my dog and he was running into into like
this group. Next was he ran into all their tip
ups and they almost caught something a thirty pounds in
furry in the in the way of Boone the yellow lab.
Uh So, he caught himself an otter um. There's a
video I saw young Lady did this. I had a

(38:10):
feeling you were going to. Yeah. So there's a video
of the incident itself, as well as an interview with
NBC ten that Keith decided to take in his car
for some reason. It's like hilarious. There are tubs of
gear and shipped behind him. So, I mean, I think
I would you for the news and you're sitting in
your truck. It's weird. I loved it, man, I think
I'd like this dude. Anyhow, the interview in the footage

(38:31):
they used are like pretty vanilla, you know, very NBC ten.
But I found the dude's Instagram and holy sh it,
is his video way more. I'll send it to It's
Keith's custom would flags do make some like pretty cool
wood flags? And the very first thing on that Instagram

(38:52):
page is the uh is the video? So to get
into that video, first off, the dude is swearing like
a sale and that's not only relatable, but it also
makes way more sense why NBC ten used approximately six
seconds of this minute long video because I'm pretty sure
I'm pretty sure those were the only six seconds where

(39:12):
there wasn't a swear share between the two anglers in it. Now,
that's part one that I really like about this video.
My next favorite part of the video is what Keith's
buddy tries to do, which, um, I mean it looks
like he tries to gill lift the otter in the
same way you might try to gill lift a pike. Uh,

(39:33):
there are ce I didn't see any of this because
I've only seen the NBC ten. It was very tame.
It's so funny. Um. The first problem is that an
otter does not have gills, making it hard to gil lift.
The second problem is what otters do have, and that
is insanely sharp teeth. If you want to see what

(39:54):
a piste off outer can do, go ahead and google
otter attack and Hotter? Will you up very well? They
want to kill him all over in Britain. Yeah, right right,
that's what we call a call back in the industry, fellas. Um.
Very wisely, Keith dissuades his companion from trying to handle
the otter any further. Now, you hear Keith say that

(40:15):
they're going to cut the line, But then he changed
his heart and things that he might be able to
get the hook out as it's already in the corner
of like the otter's mouth, like it's just barely in there.
It's not like this otter like swallow. No, that's another
thing that makes a story like palpable. If you had
had like a writhing otter in there, that would not
have been great Anyhow. This otter is, I got to mention,

(40:37):
the otter is adorable and honestly like remarkably calm during
the whole ordeal. It just kind of like comes up
like if you ever see like the National Geographic where
they like videotape like seals coming through like the ice
holes in the Antarctic. It's just like it's just like
kind of coming up and like taking some breaths, and
it doesn't seem overly angry. Um, It not thrashing, it's

(41:01):
not biting at everything. And dare I say it's snoot
looks very popable. Oh man, do you participate in Snooter
Saturday with your dog on Instagram? No? But I boomed
that dog Snoot all the time. Dude, I can't disagree
with this because I gotta tell you, like you can't

(41:21):
help but feel a little bad for it, right, because
like it's struggling down there, and then when they finally
do get it through the hole, and like his little
nose just comes up and he's just like, yeah, I
felt I felt bad for the otter. I felt bad
for him because he wasn't he was kind of cute anyway.
In the interview on NBC ten, Keith mentions that he
was sure he had a state record on the line,

(41:41):
and although it may not have been the walley or
muskie or whatever else he was hoping for, I'd say
you can confidently claim the Massachusetts otter catch and release
record through the ice. I think this was a cool story.
And what I appreciate is I know that feeling of
having something on the line and you're like I have
no idea what I have on here, dude, but like
whatever this is, like this is some crazy ship right now,

(42:02):
and like you're just going through your head of like
fifty muskie or thirty pound wall like crazy. I don't
think I would have like thought, I would have been
like god, damn, I would have been pissed. It would
have been pissed that it wasn't a fish. And then
I did feel bad for the little guy a little. Yeah,
I mean the otter is adorable, but you know what
I actually my question was how often does stuff like

(42:28):
this happen? And as it turns out, Joe, it kind
of happens like a lot. He is, by no leans. Yeah,
he's by no means like the first person to catch
an otter through the ice. If you if you just
google otter through the ice and you click the little
video thing, a bunch of ship comes up. I'm same
with muskrats, beavers not so much. But you know, it's

(42:49):
interesting the mamalion by catch that uh seems mostly through
the ice. Because this happened more. I would bet it
happens more ice fishing than open water. You've never heard
of it open world. Well, Joe are very own Brody Henderson.
I showed him this video and he told me about
a tangle he got in with a an otter while

(43:10):
he was streamer fishing one time. Yep. So I mean,
did it actually go for the streamer? Because because I
know people that have snagged beavers um. In fact, I
know somebody had happened to at night while mouse fishing,
but it didn't eat the fly. Yeah, no, I I
didn't ask him too much about I mean, like you know.
We we we're very hard at work in the mediator

(43:31):
office and sometimes it doesn't allow for extended conversation. I'll
ask him about it, um, but no, My my impression
was that the otter went for the streamer man. I mean,
that's what they do, that's how they feed. I can
see it. I've never I've never had that happen. I've never,
at least I've never seen anything in person, though I
do know of a confirmed account from a buddy of

(43:53):
mine that hooked a freaking seal in the mouth trolling
a rubber show for stripers. Now, they're extremely smart, like
kind of like dolphins. You don't ever hear anybody hooking
a dolphin that like, like a dolphin never eats your lore.
They eat and you know, yeah, because they know it's fake.
And I always thought, you know, seals were pretty smart too,

(44:15):
and not that one. But they were literally trolling back
Bay along these sod banks and I remember seeing the
video of it, the reels just dumping and they're like,
oh my god, this is an eighty pound striper or something.
It's a light rod. It's just dumping, and then like
a mile back up with it with with his a

(44:36):
storm had right in the corner of his mouth. That's
that's the only time I've no God, no, they just
ended up cutting a lot like you weren't reeling that
in that there was no way you were working it
to the boat, and as if you chased it, it
would just swim a million miles an hour the other direction,
like there was no catching up. So uh yeah, no,

(44:57):
please enter your password. You have one unheard message. Oh
hey man, thanks for us the audio for like a
sixth time in a row. Now, um, like I said,
if this happens to gonna find a new host. Totally unprofessional.
End of message, Delete press seven, save deleted. All right,

(45:25):
so we'll go from let's go from cute little otters
to stone called death. About that, because, as Sergeant Barnes
once famously said, everybody gotta die sometime, right, And if
you're a fisherman, why not give back to the fishes
when you kick the bucket by having yourself memorialized in
an artificial reef ball. It creates habitats for the things

(45:45):
you spent your entire life ripping from the sea and
dropping in hot conola oil. It only seems I needed
to point out that you just missed a way up
sleeping with the fishes. Pun but go ahead, Yeah, you're right. Yeah,
shame one, shame on me. Anyway. Reef ball memorials. This
is not new, okay. Florida Bay's company, Eternal Reefs, has

(46:05):
been providing this service since the late nineteen eighties. Uh.
And they take the cremated remains of folks, they mixed
them with concrete, cast them into a reef ball and
then drop that to the bottom. Let you get the story,
what is it? Because that's way more palatable than being
turned into chumh. Yes, we're gonna get to that though,

(46:26):
because I kind of suggest that later and you'll understand why.
According to the story I'm pulling from, and this is
in the Guardian, there are more than three thousand of
these memorial reef balls in twenty five offshore sites ranging
from Texas to New Jersey. Friends and family are then
provided with the GPS coordinates of their loved ones reef ball.

(46:47):
So if the dead coral wasn't enough for you, you
can also be dead. So well, hey man, but these
are you're jumping the gun because these promote coral growth, right,
So anyway, I get the impression that this service based
on your reaction because you've never heard of it was
kind of low key, right. I I had heard about
it many years ago. In fact, I remember reporting about

(47:08):
it almost twenty years ago at Saltwater Sportsman. But since then,
a couple of things have changed, right, people in general,
the next generation, maybe your generation, has gotten a lot
more eco friendly, and eco friendly alternatives to traditional burial
have gotten more and more trendy. Then you add in
the pandemic, which I guess made people think the entire
population of Earth was doomed, and reef ball memorials have surged.

(47:31):
In fact, Eternal Reefs says uh the number of annual
requests for information tripled during the pandemic. Right, so Eternal
Reef also has competition. Now there are other companies doing
the same thing. Matter of fact, according to the story,
and operation recently started doing this in the U k Um.
And it's not a simple startup because you need a

(47:53):
lot of government permits and permission to just go start
dumping things offshore. Right. You can't just run out there
in your in your boys boat. Um. But the guys
who run the operation over there say they are bombarded
by calls from folks looking to replicate the model. These
are people, Yeah, they want to get in on the
incorporating dead people into reef balls action. Personally, I've always

(48:15):
thought this was kind of cool, right, and and as
a man that has fished a lot of artificial reefs,
I'm very much for them. And they certainly do work.
Like you mentioned, Carl, it's not just habitat. They give
corals and things places to cling to um and so
there's no denying that they create habitat and it's a
way to promote life after you're gone. And here's a

(48:36):
quote from the piece. You're providing structure for fish to
swim through and a place for plants to grow, said
seventy seven year old Janet Hawk of Indianapolis. My first
impression was that they were really ugly. Then I thought, oh,
it would be so nice to be down there with
little orange fish darting through the holes in my ball.

(48:58):
No reaction to you, I'm going to take the joke
there on. Sometimes there's just no sport in it. Man.
That was it was a useless quote that I threw
in there just for that, and you just huffed at
me anyway. But you know, it's even more trendy than
eco friendly alternatives to shift these days, super hardcore eco
people cutting down trendy eco friendly alternatives and telling you
why they're not actually that good for the I love

(49:21):
this game. Okay, so uh. In the story, according to
Rosie Inman Cook, manager of the Natural Death Center charity,
cremation is a disaster because she says, it releases of
carbon dioxide into the atmosphere with each body. Furthermore, the

(49:42):
concrete manufacturing industry is responsible for eight percent of global
CEO two emissions. Okay, let me let me tell you
back to your chum, right, yeah, well, let me tell
you like the problem with her logic. You know, it
creates a lot more carbon dioxide people who are still alive.
You're right, So what's the alternative? Then you run up

(50:03):
the chum. I wasn't thinking that, but I mean, if
you think about it, what's what's more eco friendly? Is
an old school burial at sea? Right? Like if you
if you that also promotes and sustains life, does it not?
If you just weighed somebody down with sand in like
a biode garritable bag, the crabs would thrive and so
on and so forth. Um, anyway, I I still think

(50:26):
it's a neat idea despite the CEO two emissions, though,
I gotta tell you I was thinking about this right.
If I did it, I wouldn't want my reef ball
dropped on a reef I'd asked to be dropped in
like a really popular lake cove in the middle of
the night, so it would just like snag the ship
out of lures and stuff. So like every time your

(50:47):
boys are there, they'd be like, God, damn it, Smelli
just got another asshole, or or like put it. Put
it somewhere really inconvenient, like where voters had to market
to know to avoid me. But then sit, I can
watch boats that weren't aware of me lose props and ship.
So like I'm creating habitat and laughter in death. Heyden,

(51:10):
can we sign you up for a reef ball? I'll
make sure it gets wherever he wanted to go? Yeah,
I mean, um, gosh, do I have a lot of man,
I have so many thoughts about this. Man, I have
so many thoughts giself. You know, I'll tell you a
funny thing that I was thinking off air once we
once we stop this recording. Uh, They're welcome listeners. You

(51:33):
know what that is? Also like like do you know
what like the red tape around this is like primarily
is it just like creating structure. Does it have anything
to do with like the disposal of a body? No, no, no, no, no, no,
there's none, there's none of that there. There really is
no red tape, right. One thing I did not address though.
People are curious about a cost, so like a funeral

(51:54):
these days, you're looking at spending like ten grand on
a funeral, So you're looking at I think three to
six thousand to have yourself turned into a reef ball.
But there's there's no red tape. I mean they do
this alongside of organizations that build artificial reefs. So my
impression is that if you have one of these organizations
that has spent all the time and money cleaning you know,

(52:16):
twenty uh decommissioned subway cars, well it's like if they're
heading out and it and it lines out, like they'll
hang onto your reef ball in Florida and make sure
it gets to those people so that you end up
on the reef in your state or like where you
want to be. There's no red tape. People complaining yet,
like this is a dumb idea because of Ceo too.

(52:37):
You two can ride the subway for all of eternity. Um, right,
the you know what I want? I want when I die.
I would like to, uh what the ship is that
that stuff that they put Han Solo in in Star Wars.
I don't know, real quick, Phil, Phil, We're gonna kick

(53:02):
it to Phil, Phil, Please let us know what the
stuff was that they put Han Solo in. Um, if
you feel like it. I would also love to know
if you were a reef ball, where should we drop you. Uh, well,
hold on a second, no no, no, no no, no, no no,
I'm not gonna let you transition there because I need
to tell you my end game here. My end game
is I want to be preserved in that stuff, and
then I want to find like the most annoying tourist

(53:25):
snorkeling destination possible, and then I want them to preserve
my body in that take me out there and kind
of like just tuck me into the reef so I
can scare the ship out of tourist snorkelers as they're
trying to enjoy their holiday, preferably where a bunch of
little kids dive with their parents. That's good, but I
hate to break it to you. It's not that original.
They are underwater statues and things doing. Isn't there some

(53:48):
lake in Wisconsin where there's like a Jason vorhees at
you on the bottom where it I'm pretty sure I've
seen that. Unless it was a hoax, you're gonna have
to come up with something else. Man, Well, anyhow, make
cast out of mushrooms and something so you completely degrade
and then people can, like, you know, pick the bulllettes
where you died. Yeah, I want to just be buried

(54:10):
hole just in case there's like some weird caveat when
I get to heaven. Anyway, why don't we kick it
over to Phil Man. Yeah, we're gonna kick it over
and Phil now already tried to kick it over to Phil.
Uh Phil star wars reef balls. Um. Let us know
who won this week, would you? And when we've done
hearing with Phil, we've got a little sage lely wisdom
from the sultry lips of our bud river Horse. And
instead of talking about flies that won't work, this was

(54:32):
about one that probably worked a little too well. Joe,
Sir Mellie, you are the little orange fish swimming through
the holes in my ball. This week, you're the winner.
I think these reef balls are a rat idea. I
wanted to laugh at them at first, but then I
thought that I'm going to be that weird Disney adult
that gets his grandchildren apprehended by Disney security after they

(54:55):
scatter my ashes into the waters of Pirates of the Caribbean. Hey, now,
this is River Horse coming to you from the Deep
South with some sagely wisdom. Today's story is about a
big old mouse fly, but it's also about being a
lifelong learner, chasing your passions and not being afraid to

(55:19):
have some good old fashioned fun. Today's story is called
here Kitty Cat. There's fifty ft of seven eggs leading
from the red leather couch into the bedroom, and all
hell is about to break loose. She's in there, throwing
on a sundress and some boots for the day, as

(55:42):
angelic and stunningly beautiful and momentarily innocent as ever. I've
been testing endless variants of big gass mouse flies from
lakes to rivers all over Texas for most of the summer.
Even the supper table is covered with him. A rodent

(56:03):
hat gone wild. I've got one of them tucked just
under the dresser by her toes, ready for prime time.
Once I gently start stripping the tippet, it's all about presentation.
I pause for a few seconds and then get the
mouse guet rolling along under her feet molasses slow and

(56:25):
tantalizingly sweet. God damn it. Ribber horse comes the howl
from the flank of the house. She storms into the
front mouse number thirty eight, being strangled in her hand,
flings open the bungalow door and lets it fly onto
the lawn. Doesn't make it far getting stuck in the

(56:47):
cactus other than me being in the doghouse until I
make it up to her with white wine and steaks
on the girl. There's no damage done since you have
to clip the hook for these sort of fun tests.
Life only makes sense to me when I chase all
of the random and errant curiosities that have about the world,

(57:09):
exploring and delving in and trying to seek the highest
quality of whatever it is I'm into at the moment.
The quintessential honey dripper toe curler mouse fly is my
current self assignment. Even I sometimes wonder what gives fishing
a mouse with sack and grace. Ain't rocket science. There

(57:31):
are only a few things you have to do, including
fire a cast with a double hull that takes no prisoners.
About the only time I give a look seat of
my back cast is when I'm mousing it up. And yes,
I get an odd pleasure from seeing the fly cruising
past ten feet off the water, those precious tiny ears

(57:53):
pinned back hard, that tale, erect and proud, acting as
a fuselage stable, Sir, Always land the mouse fly on
something dirt, banks, tree limbs, lily pads, docks, floating logs,
and sandbars. Strip them slower than slow, for you have

(58:14):
nothing but time. Maybe begin with a few trembling whisker twitches,
then a strange refried bean aftermath wobble mm hm, the
old backfire too, and then make it happen with a
big old disco inferno. Get that mouse on back to you,

(58:38):
and don't forget to hang on tight for the wild eat.
With time and continued derelict waterborne mouse misadventures, the experiments
are finally whittled down to a last pair of mice types.
After all these months in cast, two backyard brawlers have

(59:00):
delivered the goods and done the most extensive damage to
lone starfish. There is the mesmerizing wooly deer hair version,
the size of a free range chicken, aptly monikered buck fever,
and the massive pauper too odd hook called here Kitty,

(59:21):
and he decide which one of these rodents wants the
victory lap. For a long while, I'm uncertain until I
get a wedding invitation in the mail for my buddy.
One of my friends, you see, is an absolute A
one certified dinghis He's the kind of guy that thinks
he's sexier than sexy, but he's a good friend and

(59:45):
we just deal with him. It seems like he's getting married.
What a perfect place to bring the mouse flies and
see what happens. I'm a very spiritual soul, and Mother
Earth and Great Spirit are always in my life. But
one of my favorite churches will always be the Water

(01:00:07):
for Church. Today. I arrive at the wedding way early
so I can set up the mice on long leaders
and unleash it once the ceremony begins. They will even
be video cameras rolland to record the whole event for
mouse and wedding posterity. On my wedding invitation. I even

(01:00:30):
take a sharpie marker and add river Horse plus two guests,
Buck Fever and here Kitty, dearly beloved, and all lovers
of wedded bliss and mouse flies, we are gathered here
today to absolutely freak the heck out of the first
twenty rows of people. And as the musician Prince once said,

(01:00:55):
let's go crazy. Do you, buck Fever and here Kitty
promised to unleash your steadfast love to all large mouth
bass and full moon brown trout for eternity. With everyone
finally at the altar and the wedding ceremony going full bloom,
I know it's time I start stripping the mouse flies

(01:01:19):
right to the feet of the bride and groom. It's
on and that's our sagely wisdom for today. My friend
is still at dinghis but he's found the love of
his life and maybe he'll forgive me someday. As for me,
fishing mouse flies always rules. I found the best one here, Kitty.

(01:01:45):
Let's always remember that in life. Don't take it all
too seriously. Laughter is the sweetest medicine, my brothers and sisters,
and there isn't much sweeter than a ten pound bass
eating a mouse River horse Man. Haven't heard from him
in a while. Kind of missed that, dude. This one
hit home for me for two reasons. One because I

(01:02:06):
love mousing for trout, that's an obvious one, but also
because I actually tried to do something similar once but
was halted for fear of hr disciplinarian. And and this
was way back when the live target Field Mouse first
came out. Hollow body Lord. Yeah, it's a hollow it's
like a hollow body frog, but it's a mouse um

(01:02:27):
and man like it's it is incredibly realistic. At the time,
it was like mind blowing how much this thing looked
like a little mouse, just like sitting there poised um.
At the time, I was still working in New York
City in the in the UH for Field and Stream
when they still had their offices there, and I wanted
to put it in the break room and set up
a hit on camera and just let it roll for

(01:02:48):
social media. But my boss was like, that is funny
as shit, but hell no, absolutely not, because like you know,
like old margin accounting would walk in and have a
heart attack or somethin And there was also the whole
like filming people unaware. Yeah, well, I'll tell me you're
not really supposed to do that. I'll tell you what,
there's no one in the office listen to the Bent

(01:03:09):
podcast anyhow, I'm gonna do that and you can vicariously through.
Did you ever tell you about my mouse pattern? No, yep,
it was. It was pretty good. It was a it
was a let me think about this. You tied it
on a streamer hook, right, and the tail you use
one of those squirmy wormy like in pink, and then

(01:03:33):
you would also tie those in for the feet. So
the first thing you do is you'd wrap the hook
down and thread tie in the tail, and then you
tie into each individual feet by just making like an
inch long section, crossing it across the hook shank in
two spots, and then you'd have like you know, like
the foot and the tail out. Then you'd take a
zonker strip and you'd wrap it all the way around

(01:03:55):
right um. And then what you would do is you
would take a little beasts of foam like what you
use for like a chubby or whatever, and you make
your ears with it. And then you would take a
bass or like a like a sunny um foam like
you know, like one of those popper bodies. Yeah, yeah,

(01:04:16):
actually you would. You would put that on first. Sorry,
you put that on first, like you were doing it
as a bead head, but you put it in reverse,
so it was like a cone pointing towards the eye
of the hook. It's a sneaky beat style head slider head.
And what was cool about that pattern is like the
because it was squirmy wearing material, the tail and the
feet would be like have like a ton of action

(01:04:38):
in them. And because you didn't have any foam towards
the back, it would kind of sit lower in the
water towards the back end, so it would look like
how a mouse swims. And then those foam ears you
could use that is kind of like a little poper.
It would displace a bunch of water um, you know.
So so to bring this full circle Man to tie

(01:05:00):
a couple of those and mousing is something that I
absolutely want to do, hopefully when I come visit this summer.
I do have a pretty good idea of where I
might pitch some ice around here, but you'll have to
share some spots when I come back east Man, which
leads perfectly into this week's installment of the bent helpline,

(01:05:20):
where we'll discuss when it is and it's not okay
to share fishing in funk? What are you laughing at, Marktini?
You're not an idiot, You're not a gamblooning. How more,
you're a fisherman. What's your emerging tee? So here's one
via the instagrams from at Blue Water Johnny. Okay, uh,

(01:05:46):
this is this is this is gonna be an interesting one.
I'm very curious to hear your take on this. So
so here's what he writes. He says, so, what do
you do when you get called into an insane bite
by some guys, you know, something that's on the dead
down low and lasts for weeks. But you get told
by the guys let's call them crew A, that you

(01:06:07):
can't tell anyone. You go and smash them on their advice.
Then your boys ask, hey, man, what yep to catching Annie?
You kind of have to lie to your bros or
burn crew a. What would Bent do? This is a
dilemma of biblical proportions sort of maybe yeah, kind of? Well,

(01:06:32):
I honestly, man, I think it's like pretty cut and dry, dude.
It's like, if you're gonna go hit that bite. Man Um,
you pretty much just have to like not tell folks
where you were. You can tell them like maybe if
it's a for instance, if somebody was like, hey, man Um,

(01:06:54):
I saw you like banging them on cough and flies
the other day. Uh where you know what's up with that?
You can we go do that? I would be like, uh, man,
I I can't really take you to like where I
was because like that's like something my buddies showed me,
and you know, they told me to kind of keep
it on the hush hush, but I will tell you that,
like it's kind of going off on like the West

(01:07:15):
Branch of the Delaware, And I also listeners for all
these examples, I always use the West Branch of the
Delaware because like yeah, yeah, yeah, like you know, it's
a large trout from New York Pennsylvania probably there, you
know what I mean in the summertime, millions of bugs
coming off. Yeah. I mean. So this is a tougher

(01:07:36):
one for me because, as I've joked before, like I
barely have one solid set of fishing friends, let alone
too that might conflict you know what I'm saying, Like
where one would be worried about the other one was doing. Um,
but I will say I am. I'm extremely loyal with

(01:07:57):
that kind of thing. If you if you show me something,
uh great example, I got let in this summer to
Sheep's Head in New Jersey. That's a thing. It's like
getting more and more popular. But the guys who were
good at it, they don't talk about it. And I
knew one guy and I pestered him until finally he
was like yes, And I realized that he was going

(01:08:18):
to give me like three years worth of of hard
work and knowledge in one shot. Hang on, shut that
dog up. My wife's yelling at me because she's on
a meeting too. Anyway, Anyway, what were we saying something
about fishing, fishing, Yeah, yeah, okay. So so I realized that, like,

(01:08:44):
this dude is about to show me in a few
short hours what took him years and seasons to dial
in in one shot. And we had a great day
and we took very strategic photos downward into the boat.
So you saw nothing. And I've been asked a million
times under no circumstances of my giving that up, like
I will not do that. So you know, I I

(01:09:05):
I'm very respectful of that, but to your point you
sort of hinted at it. Um, you can't be just
like a total jerk about it. But if you're if
you're doing this in one specific area, I might say
the river or be like, hey it's on man, get
out there and explore, like the whole river is on
fire right now, dude, just get out there and and
check it out. The other thing that you could do

(01:09:27):
is just be like straight up honest with your with
your secondary buddies i e. Not Group A. You just go, yeah, man,
I mean we had a really good day and like, dude,
it is on fire like in A. But you know
you can give them like a general area again, but
you can't. But just be honest, Just be like, but
the person who took me really asked me not to

(01:09:48):
tell anybody, so like, I just can't. I'm really sorry,
and they're gonna give you like the sheepish look like
a bit. Come on, bro, you just stick to it, man,
Just be like no really, because then you know, even
worst case scenario, your buddies and Group B will have
enough trust in you to take you to their spots
because if there's one thing they know about, you know,

(01:10:08):
it's not where you call it that giant brown trout.
But it said if you get a good spot, you
keep it on the download exactly. And that is that
is worth so much in fishing because another question he
could have asked, which might have even been a better question,
is what do you do when you take a buddy
to a spot and say, don't tell anybody, and then
show up in that spot and he is there with
someone else that you don't know? What do you do? Then?

(01:10:32):
I am lucky and that I have never you believe,
I have never had that happen to me. Though I
have had people call me up and be like, hey,
can I go to this spot with so and so?
And sometimes I'm like I'd prefer you didn't, and sometimes
depending on the spot, I'm like, yeah, go ahead. But
they had the courtesy to reach out and be like

(01:10:53):
that spot you showed me, I would like to take
my friend, Brian. Is that okay? Hey? I will say
this though, uh strong chance if y'all send some comments
about what you would do to that friend if if
you showed up and he was in a spot you
said not to be at with somebody else. I just
want to know, like, what your reaction would be, would
there be whips, chains, just fists, just words? What would

(01:11:15):
you do? Um? Let us know and keep those questions
coming to Bent at the Meat Eater dot com. Maybe
we'll answer them right here on the ben helpline. So
that's it for this week. If you were about to
unleash that streamer you thought was original to the masses,
sorry if we squashed your hopes and dreams, but I

(01:11:36):
would like to say thanks again to Brian Schmidt for
joining us. Also, I'll reiterate that if you prefer to
deliver your rodents on a swim bait rod instead of
a fly rod, look him up. He makes badass giant
rats in umbrella rig of rats. Also look us up.
Keep sending those sale bin items, bar nominations, questions, and

(01:11:56):
awkward photos to Bent at the Meat Eater dot com
and keep using those degenerate Angler and Bent podcast hashtag
so we can see what you got going on. Yes,
please do. And finally, keep in mind that ranting about
spot burns just raises your blood pressure and that's not good.
Just choose the healthier option, take out a bankload, and
just buy the entire river so we don't have to
listen to you anymore. Take your own advice joke