Ep. 83: Hickory-Smoked Parachute Pants

This week on “Trout Vest Aficionado,” we shame a young man for his lack of clinch knot skills, pat Timmy on the back for a super duper shad, discuss the graphic violence in “Old Man And The Sea,” and smash big tunas with the butterfly effect.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Thick ass wuthering heights in Jane are not dog like.
I got stockers to catch. I ain't got time for that.
It looks like you try to catch somebody's ship zoo
with a hat exactly, remember, yeah, yeah, with the zebra stripes.
Yeah yeah, yeah, of course, real quick if you're the
listener already crafting an email in your head telling us

(00:28):
what your interpretation of the old man in the sea
has stopped. Yeah, good morning to generate anglers, and welcome
to Bent, the Fishing podcast that swears to God, if
you reel that barrel swivel into the tip guide one
more time, it will not take you out for froyo.
When we get back to the dot, I'm Joe Surmeli
and I'm Hayden Samac and uh and doesn't like that

(00:50):
they what do you call the f g eliminate that
issue like an instentirety. Yes, technically, yes, there's several mainline
the leaders places out there these days that, if tied correctly,
will allow you to reel the knot all the way
up onto your reel. But I brought up the swivels
in the tip top guide because here's the thing, um,
I think people have actually gotten so used to line

(01:11):
to line connections, especially newer anglers, that if they do
end up using a rig with a barrel swivel like it,
it just simply does not compute. Right, Like I learned
to fish with the barrow swivel connecting my leader to
the mainline. And you know what, like two palamar knots
against the quality swivel is a damned strong connection. Some
may even argue stronger than any line in line connection.

(01:32):
And I never, I never, or very rarely, only by mistake,
ever reeled my swivel into my tiptop. I was just
like cognizant of it and knew not to do that. Yeah,
I mean, I don't think that it's because beginners are
like used to line to line. That's probably a large assumption,
that is fairly big. But I mean, like, really, a

(01:53):
swivel in is uh not great? No, no, no, no no,
I mean it is the easiest way to cracker chip
the insert your tiptop guide. Which is why though getting
back to beginners for just one sec, you will rarely
see a charter captain rig his rods with barrel swivels
for his leader. For that reason, because I've been out
there and all day long, it's just click tink, click,

(02:15):
and one can only uh, you know, say, don't reel
the swivel into the tip top guide. So many times, um,
I've experienced that on on my boats. Uh and every
time you hear it, like you just you just WinCE. Um.
And I don't know, to me, it's just not that
difficult to remember. Yeah, yeah, I mean i'd agree with that.
But have you ever gotten any sort of like legitimate

(02:36):
damage because of somebody really or because you or somebody
barring your gear? Really? Yeah? No, totally. Um. I I
lent a surf rod to somebody one time, right, and
the next time I used it every third cast like
my ship is just flying off. I'm just like sending
storm shads off into the distance. Um. And it takes

(02:57):
a second so you finally figure out, like ship, there's
a hip in the tip top guide. And I guarantee
it's because that dude was reeling his swivel in. Um.
So here here's a hot tip, right, And something I
don't do often, but if if I'm going to be
fishing in the dark on the surfer sake, going like
popping for tune, it's something that really matters. When I'm
packing up my rods, I run a Q tip around

(03:18):
the inside of each guide, and if there's a chip
or a crack, it usually phrase the Q tip Because
to go back to that night on the beach, like
I mean, I had no I had to go home,
Like I didn't bring to nine ft surf rods. I
just brought one to go fish for the night. So
the night was kind of shot, you know. Yeah, yeah,
but like I feel like I feel like it's got

(03:39):
to be like some sort of like mcgiver fixed to that. Yeah,
but see, not a great one in my opinion. Like,
if you have duct tape, you can try wrapping a
tiny strip around the guide, but it doesn't cast the
same and the braid will eventually cut through the tape.
Um and those insertain materials are they're so slick that
even like super like trying to fill it with super

(04:01):
glimics and stick all that. Well, right, Um, the best
thing you you could do maybe would just be to
knock the entire insert out and and and fix the
whole guide later with the wire frame. Yeah, just fish
with a wire frame. Uh. And people will likely write
in with other ideas, but I'm talking about quick fixes
on the scene. Right. If you can afford to kill
the time and the hardware stories open, UH, you might

(04:23):
have better ideas. But I'm talking about midnight, all alone
on the beach. Um. So this is also why it
pays to have a good local rod guy. Shout out
to mine Rick Szakorski of rat Sticks. That dude has
fixed so many chipped guides for me. Anyway, you must
have mcgeivered something out there fishing or not. What have
you mgeivered? Yeah? Well, so I was like elk hunting

(04:45):
UH in September last year, and I needed to get
water out of this like little trickle. But it was
like super shallow. It was just like this little spring
coming out of this like little seep and it was
all muddy. So if I like try to like scoop
my water bottle in it, like I get all sorts
of yeah, pine needles and ship and um. So what

(05:07):
I did was there were like some reads next to UH,
next to the water. So I I clipped one of
these reads with my knife. It was totally hollow in
the middle. I built up like a couple of rocks
and like some mud around one end of the read.
Uh let the water build up behind it to the
point that it went through the read and over this

(05:29):
little ledge. So now you had like a little spickett
coming out of this spring. And I used I let
that run clear, and I used that to fill up
the water bottle. So that's something I'm scared. I believe
that there is an exhibit in the Natural History Museum
of ancient people's doing exactly that. So that is that
is very good. Anyway, Listen, if you've got a rod
that's just too beat up, let's say, to be worth

(05:52):
any kind of costly repairs, how about a new one,
perhaps from our sponsors thirteen Fishing. Um, I don't know
what it's been like at there. Why I kind of do,
because I mean pictures they we'll talk about in a minute.
I dude, it was it highs in the seventies here
last weekend, record temps, so uh. I took the old
oman pan fish and trout rods over the local croppyhole,
thinking they'd be all woke up, but not yet. So

(06:13):
I got a few good ones ago, but the water
temps haven't really caught up to the air. But I
was using the seven foot ultra light model, which is
fairly slow and um and whippy. But these fish weren't
like ripping the float under. It was a very subtle bite.
So that flex and softness, um really helped set the
hook on these fish that kind of like barely had
these baits in their mouths. So it worked out. The

(06:35):
uh you know, those thirteen rods are so sensitive that
me and my buddy Corey, we were we were doing
our last like uh like overnight urbit trip for the Yeah,
I saw what she did. It's cool, tell us tell
us about it. Well, I'll tell you about what I
think you're talking about, but I'll tell you something that
was less cool, but nevertheless a testament to the sensitivity

(06:59):
of a thirteen fishing rod. I was using one of those,
a medium action even widow maker dead stick, and we
were chunking like while we were going to bed in
like the in like the shels or whatever, and we're
just kind of like talking and watching our rods, and
mine just started to go like this. Listeners, you can't

(07:20):
see it, but I'm like very subtly lifting and lowering
my extended index finger. Here it looks it looks like
a swordfish bite on a deep drop rod. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
very subtly, and you know, I'd go, I'd pop the
rod out of the dead stick holder, like real carefully,
so it was not to disturb the bourb but that
was surely about to get stung. I'd set the hook

(07:41):
and then nothing. And this happened like five or six times.
It was maddening, and I'm like, dude, I can see
the bite, but I don't know what's going on. And
I thought about it for a second, and I remember
somebody telling me that there were crawfish in the lake
that would set off their tip ups. What I was
watching was a crawfish crawling onto my bait twenty ft

(08:05):
down with a medium action rod. Now tell me that
that's not like a very sensitive ice ory, very sensitive.
And then you go set and he just whooped backwards
and he's gone. And we found this out by dropping
a camera down the hole and literally just seeing the
bottom littered with crawfish just crawled. Dud. I'd drill another

(08:26):
hole and put a trap down. Cold water, crawfish boil,
you bet as soon as ice off, that's what's going
that's what's going down. And and we ended up we
caught more than crawfish. On that trip, we caught a
tagged bourbon. Yeah who tagged that? That was interesting? Like,
who's tagging? Yeah? I don't know. I know that Corey
submitted the tag to f w P the other day,

(08:49):
so we will I will report back on on what
came about that. Anyway, we've already shared a couple of
good tips here, that being always have a camera so
you can see if you're you're being attacked by cross
or Joe stupid, you know. Guide. So let's carry the
teaching over. We've got an awkward moment in angling for

(09:11):
you that captures a teaching moment that, um, it doesn't
look to be going particularly well. What did you take
a picture? A life? So today's photo comes to us
from Bent listener Rev. Crimson. Now I don't know if
that's his real name. Uh though if it is, that's

(09:32):
totally badass. He may he may be a real reverend,
like an actual man of the Lord, in which case
forgive us for some of the things we may be
about to say. Or perhaps it's just a symbolic reverend
title similar to Rev. Run Run DMC. I think it's
probably that. Yeah, either way, this is a great photo.
Especially if you're a dad. Now I am not a dad,

(09:54):
but this is still a great photo because there is
a father son moment being captured here. And whereas you
probably identify with Rev the dad, Joe, I could put
myself in the in the sun's position just like, just
like a little bit more easily, it's slightly more recent.
That's fair. That's fair. Okay, So let's set this up right. Uh.
In the foreground of the shot is Rev's son. He

(10:16):
didn't provide his name, that's okay, Okay. Now he's a teenager, right,
he's not a little little fellow. Uh. And he's wearing
a tank top and some some broken in jeans with
a kind of cloth belt that used to come standard
on a pair of cargo shorts from Pacific Sunwear. Okay. Uh.
He's wearing a leather necklace. And while the charm at
the end of it is obscured, right, I'm thinking I'm

(10:37):
willing to bet just just looking at it, it it is
a giant one of those giant tribal bone hooks, right,
which is which I assume people wear as a true
statement of angling prowess, which will make all this funnier
in just a minute, yeah, so the kids got this
like wild grown out hair is young is young teenagers

(10:59):
are sometimes to do. And he's got a flat brim
hat on backwards, but he hasn't tucked the hair under it,
so it's like one of those things where it looks like, yeah,
you know that look right, Like it's hard to describe,
and it's like it looks like you try to catch
somebody's ship zoo with a hat and now all you
can see is just like the tough to fur under it. Anyhow. Yeah,

(11:22):
he's also wearing frameless like Oakley style, and I guarantee
either gas station beat or sunglasses. And he's he's looking
down at his hands. Yeah yeah, I still insist on
referring to those style of glasses as ken Griffe junior glasses. Anyway. Yeah,
so he's looking in his hands and he's fiddling with
fishing line. Um. The expression on his face is totally blank.

(11:44):
Not much going on there. Uh So now we can
move on to the rev. Rev is the primary focus
of my roaths because I don't believe in U. If
say about revs, so I under stand that I couldn't,
so I didn't want want to lay into him too
hard you know. Okay, So Rev is standing behind him

(12:08):
and he's doing the open trout vest over a tank
top thing. Right. His arms are are sternly crossed across
his his chest. Um, he's wearing a pair of old
school Vietnam Eric Chamo pants covered up with hip boots.
Let's talk about hip boots for a second. By and large,

(12:29):
you just don't see them in fishing the way you
used to write, like, I started out as a kid
with hip boots, but nowadays I feel like the kids
go straight to chess waiters, just because so many companies
make little kid chess waiters. Right, did you start with
hip boots when he first started waiting? Well, you know,
I I like hit boots a lot. And here's why
if you're kind of doing like a like we've talked

(12:50):
about how I have an affinity for blue lining brook Trout,
and yeah, that's kind of a waste to wear chess
waiters for a blue So I get that. In case
you guys like don't remember, a blue line for brook
Trout is like or just any trout for that matter,
is finding just a small blue line on a topo
map and just going in and exploring and hoping that
there were some fish there more or less. Um, So

(13:13):
I wear them for that because you can wear your
hiking boots in pack those hip waiters in just super
easy and a lot of times you don't need them.
But it's good because a lot of those streams are
like you know, they have like a you know, maybe
like a real muddy bank where it's like two and
a half foot of mud, and even if you were
in wellies, which you didn't want to hike into in
the first place, or actually less convenient to carry than

(13:34):
a lot of these breathable like frog TG style hit boots, um,
you going past them and you'd be, yeah, I see,
I see, I see. I just in my observation, I
see more application in hunting these days because I started
out with hip boots and inevitably would go in over
them like it was just not enough coverage, like it
was just a disaster anyway. So Rev has that totally

(13:57):
old school like definitely like a or Ohio or West
Virginia trout fisherman look, and I diget his arms are
also like covered in tats and I can't make all
of them out, but I know one is a is
a big old rose and h Rev has kind of
a high and tight military haircut. He's rocking some dark

(14:18):
oval kind of ninety weren't really that man. What they
look like is their transition lenses, I think, is what's
going on? You know, you're right, they are transition lenses.
But they have that oval like oblong kind of shape about. Yeah.
And he as a killer like what do he called?
Like the James Hetfield man Chew chew? He has a

(14:39):
killer fu man Chew. Now most most critically though, Rev's
head is cocked to the side, looking upon his son
with a look of complete disdain and frustration. Looks like
he's in the middle of saying something too. He is,
he is, but here's why here's Rev, Rev writes with
his photo. The photo is of me and my son.

(15:01):
I have, for the twentieth time that day, tried to
explain how to tie a simple clinch knot, so that
ties the disdain in the photo together. It's funny. That's
gonna kind of mess up one of my burns, but
go ahead, so anyway, he says, anyway always makes me
laugh when I see it. As a side note, my

(15:21):
son has since absconded with my new thirteen fishing rod. Hey,
there you go somewhere with your boy lance V. Something
about hashtag Google squad, hashtag chunk bait not hate. Um. Now,
I I understand it's hard to get the full visual,
but Dad's know this look of what the you actually
doing right now, and it's been captured here perfectly. Like

(15:44):
I said, I i've i'm i'm personally yet well, no,
that's not sure. I'd give that look to folks all
the time, but not in a fatherly sort of way.
But I I and I have it on the receiving
end of it many times myself. Yeah, and Red looks
like a no bullshit kind of guy, frankly, major dad energy,
as you wrote in your response to him. Um, it

(16:04):
also looks like like you said, that Rev is mid
sentence and I can only imagine the words being uttered.
So now the boy is also in a high pressure
situation as he tries to tie eight years. Only he
could eat that chicken sandwich. Very impressive. Mike Fitzgiven's son
is a nuclear physicist and my shun kind, so I'm

(16:29):
very curious about the roast this week. I was gonna
ask if you're focusing on Rev, but you already said
on Rev uh my, my new favorite part of awkward moments.
Are you ready? We will put ten seconds on the
clock and go. Dude looks like he doesn't know if
he's more disappointed than the son's not tying or his outfit.

(16:52):
Dude looks like a fisherman character in Apocalypse Now. Dude
looks like Dude looks like the love child of Bob
the Garbage Man and Mike i Canelli. Oh my god,
you'll see it when you see the photo. Dude looks
like he's halfway through a rant about how not strength
is bogus and that big fishing just wants you to

(17:12):
tie complicated not so you spend more time tying and
less time fishing in an effort to save fish as
part of their secret green agenda. Wow, that was masterful.
Was that the last one? That's the last one. I
spent some time on that. That was masterful. That was masterful.
Oh my god, that was really good. Um wow, you

(17:33):
like you like took the spit out of my mouth.
That was so good. Anyway, Rev, thanks so much for
sending that one in. I'm sorry. If the boy is
going the way the Google squad, that's just too bad.
Tie him up, Rev and make him watch Roland Martin
DVDs for a few hours. You'll get him back. Um. Hey,
if you've got a good shot of yourself about to
open up a can of whoop bass on your child
while fishing, do please send it along to Bent at

(17:55):
the Meat Eater dot com. So that was a little different.
I enjoyed that one. That's for all the dad's um
and moms right out there. They get it. And if
you don't have kids yet, despite how you you may feel, now,
believe me, the day will come that no matter how
much you love your kids, you will find yourself, um
asking them if they are stupid, Like that's gonna happen

(18:17):
you just are you stupid? It just happens naturally. So
so why I appreciate that photo from Rev so much?
Man that that realization comes to some quicker than others.
Just ask my dad anyway. I've been asking myself if
I'm stupid all week long after hearing from you guys
about the Trojan Brook Trout story I covered last week.

(18:38):
So find out if I'm competent and qualified or not.
In this week's installment of fish News, fish News that
escalated quickly alright, so correction time. This happens on occasion.
Maybe this is less of a correction than just a clarification,
but the masses have spoken and I shall respond. Uh.

(19:01):
Last week I covered the story of the Trojan brook trout,
and while discussing how brookies found their way out west,
I said that the Mississippi River acted as a natural barrier.
In other words, you have all these native brookies in
states east of the Mississippi, right Uh. And while they
could conceivably reach the Mississippi, the chances of them populating

(19:22):
the western side of the country that way are are
pretty slim for a bunch of different reasons. Temperatures, predators,
all that stuff. Right. Um, well, everyone, everyone jumped up
and said, whoa buddy, there are native brook trout in
the driftless area of Wisconsin and Minnesota and Iowa, and
uh guess what, they live on the west side of
the Mississippi. So you're wrong. Um, And okay, apologies Driftless

(19:45):
area anglers. You are correct. But where I failed was
to specify that the Mississippi River, when referring to to
all the states east of it, which have a lot
more wild brookies than than the Driftless, right, you guys
have your own strain up there. Um. The point the
article was making that I pulled from was that brookies
were populated in the west by people bringing them from

(20:07):
the east, where you know. Once again, um, there are
a lot more Brookies than just in the Driftless. So yes,
there are brookies west of the Mississippi and the Driftless,
but even there, the Mississippi is still kind of a barrier,
like the Brookies and the Driftless would have to have,
you know, gone through generations of travel hell to populate
waters all the way out west. So basically, I'm saying
I apologize for forgetting our friends in the Driftless in

(20:30):
that little trout country surrounded by walleye and muskie country. Um,
it was just a little out of context, But I
fished in your waters. I love them dearly, and I apologize.
You do have wild brookies, native brooks. Yeah. I like
the guy that pointed out that you had talked about
catching tiger trout in the Driftless and was like, dude,
do the math in reverse. Yeah, yeah, you know that's

(20:52):
I I. Yeah, I just recently did say that, like
the Driftless is one of the few places that has
um wild native tiger trout, which would require brook trout. Again,
I'm sorry, okay, I'm sorry, it will. I think I
have a slight correction of my own on that same story.
Somebody brought to my attention that I I I miss

(21:14):
represented wild versus native trout, or like I I like
slipped and I said wild when I meant yeah, come on, people,
get over come on. That happens all the time. Native
is something that has been here always. Wild is something
that was introduced and has since developed, like a sustaining population.
So there's there's my correction. Joe. We're both we are

(21:36):
we are both now correct, we are coming correct. Okay, anyway,
enough on that quick. Thanks to everyone that tuned into
Hayden's Tuesday Night tie deal last week on Instagram. Um,
I had a bunch of fun chatting with you guys
while tying up the old master splinter. Now, so everyone
knows you're aiming to host that every Tuesday night on
your Instagram. Correct, I am a man um so real

(21:59):
quick this week, like this past week, from the point
that you were listening to it, now go back in
time three days that being Tuesday, we did not do
a We did not do a tie week, and that's
because I'm trying to get the whole thing sort of
under my fingers, trying to find some cool folks to
come on and teach us how to tie fly. Yeah,
to that end, I'd like because a few people reached
out to me, I am down to jump in there

(22:20):
when I can, but just to clarify, I can't necessaries. Yeah,
there's an ass to be wiped at that hour on
most Tuesdays. Okay, yeah, anyway, So yeah, the bent uh
tie along Tuesday series that is going to be taking
off soon on the old Instagram. If you follow me
at Hayden Underscore SAMAC, you will be tuned into when

(22:43):
that's going down. Basically, we're gonna have somebody cool come
on and show me how to tie a fly, and
by proxy, you how to tie a fly. We'll tie
one with a tutorial, and then we'll tie another one
while we're just kind of bullshit, and I'll what's our
show with the chicken wings hot ones? Kind of like yeah,
and dude and I I really did have fun. I
will jump in when I can, maybe not to tie along,

(23:04):
but just to like heckle and say in an ship. Um,
but no, that's good. That was a really good time. Uh.
Let's see, let's not forget our conservation minutes before we
get into the meat of news. It's a new thing
we're doing. Here's what I got. The state of Massachusetts
recently announced that motorist can now purchase license plates to
give back to striped bass conservation. Uh. If you want one,

(23:28):
you'll have to spend forty dollars every two years, on
top of the fee that comes with just having a
regular plate. Quote from the story reads, the purchase of
these specialty license plates will enhance efforts to conserve and
restore stripe bass, river herring, and other marine fisheries that
are vital to the Commonwealth's coastal ecology, economy, and culture.

(23:48):
The plate features a striper chasing l wife herring, painted
by artist Jane BEYONDI. Uh so we know, Bob the
garbage man is out because those ain't bunka and uh
A giant sebio Mattics member may have been more appealing
to the anglers in that state, since them only fish
the cape cod canal boom. I had to do it.
I'm going to hear about it. But there you go.

(24:10):
I'm not really sure the context, but I'm that's all right.
Onto my conservation min in here. I got to uh
one being a follow up to your conservation minute from
last week. That being that, um, the Goliath Grouper season
is is going to be a thing in Florida and
you can buy a tag. It was passed. So there's that.

(24:33):
Um now my more elaborate minute. On March first, New
Mexico officially declared landowner efforts to restrict public access to
rivers and creeks is unconstitutional. Landowners were taking advantage of
New Mexico's designation of waterways is being unnavigable. Uh So,
if you don't know, in much of the West, this
designation is like navigable versus non navigable. Is what separates

(24:55):
water you can legally access by like waiting or boating
or whatever, from water that you cannot. And people love
to debate navigable versus non navigable. It's a thing in
every state. It's crazy. Yeah yeah. So um, as it
turned out like there was a single lawyer in New
Mexico was processing a bunch of applications on behalf of

(25:16):
landowners to designate their creeks and rivers running through their
property is non navigable, allowing the landowners to block them
with like barbed wire, chain link whatever. The problem was
that the certification of a non navigable waterway was more
of a paid for designation rather than in natural certification process.
So it's not like somebody was like, yep, that's like

(25:36):
a thing. It's like this lawyer was literally just putting
in these applications and like the state was going, yep,
sure it sounds good. Um. So anyway, basically you could
pay to privatize water whether or not it was actually
navigable or not navigable. Um. You know, it's worth noting
that there are lots of rivers in New Mexico that are,
you know, fluctuate insanely in flows. So even like something

(25:59):
that would be designated navigable could go all but dry
during like the summer months, then come back up and
it's still navigable even though for a while it was
non navigable. If that's confusing, I think that that's that
was the genesis for this legislation. Anyhow, Um, that just
got trashed and good riddance. If you'd like to read

(26:20):
more about it, You can check it out on the
meat eater dot com in an article by Maggie Hudlow,
who I'm actually gonna be referencing later on in fish
News UH titled New Mexico's Supreme Court restores public stream
access laws. There we go, all right, moving along. Remember,
UH news is a competition. We do not know which
feature story the other fella is bringing to the table.

(26:41):
At the end, a winner will be declared by our
trojan audio engineer, Phil Uh. And it is your lead
this week, man, So what you got? All right? So
this week on fish News, we're taking a ride down
to Georgia. That's for you. For me, it's across and
down to Georgia to talk about one of your favorite fish,
Joe the shad. Yes. Before we get there, though, I'd

(27:03):
be interested to know what started your infatuation with the
shad Um. Is it just that they like fight hard?
Or do you like that they taste like shit? Or
is it something to do in the spring. So it's
it's sort of all the above. Don't taste like shoot
the yeah, I don't want to yeah yeah right. Um. Really,
the bigger answer is just tradition, I mean, growing up

(27:24):
around here, like that's something everybody did, Like it was
a big deal that my dad and his friends would
go to the Delaware Water Gap every year to do it.
And I remember, you know, like you're a little kid,
you're not allowed to go, you're not tall enough for waiters,
and then finally you get brought in. So it's something
I just grew up with as a spring happening here. Um,
but it's also it's also the kickoff to spring fishing.

(27:44):
Two good spring fishing here. And they do fight damn hard,
you know, light nice light tackle. Yeah, do they jump.
That's why we call them Jersey tarpin. Yeah. Now you
and I had uh, I forget what context we were
talking about it in, but you had mentioned, oh I remember. Folks,
if you have not seen Joe's B side on on

(28:07):
shad in the Delaware, you you ought to go check
that out. He gets deep into the history of it,
including how basically the folks at Valley Forge were relegated
to shad based eating for a long stretch of time
and we can basically owe our independence to eating the
fish that nobody wants to eat. Yes, and when you
finished watching that B side, read The Founding Fish by
John McPhee. It'll tell you more than the B side.

(28:29):
It's a very good book. Yeah. Anyway, So on that note,
last week, angler Timmy Woods um timm Yeah, yeah, and
his and his two pounds ten ounce fish beat the
record for Georgia's biggest ever hickory shad, overtaking the previous

(28:49):
record held by Christian Blake Jones of a two pound
three ounce hickory shad caught in. Timmy's fish was also
just four ounces shot of the world record hickory shad,
coming in at two pounds fourteen ounces. Prior to that,
the record had been a one pound, fifteen ounces hickory
shad caught in a record that stood for nearly thirty years.

(29:15):
If you didn't do that math over to yourself, Um, Joe, Now,
I know that a lot of the a lot of
the shad that you catch, or maybe all the shad
that you catch, I'm not too familiar with the shad
fishery where you're at, but or shad fishers in general
for that matter. Um, you catch American chad, and I'm
curious what your experience might be with hickory shad. Right. Well,

(29:37):
I actually I actually catch both and it's It's interesting
though where where I live on the Delaware River, we
have a much much higher percentage of the big American shad, right,
so they're the biggest shad that run in the country.
But I will pick off a couple of hickories a
season occasionally. Now. Subsequently, if you go just a little
bit further south to Philadelphia to the School River, you

(30:01):
have them. You catch way more hickory shad. What is
what is that fishery like, man in the School Is
it worth doing? Um? Yes, it's a very good fishery,
but I mean there's n damns on it. I mean,
these fish can only go so far out of the
Delaware before they hit the famous dam behind the Art
Museum in Philly. And yes there are fish ladders, but

(30:22):
everybody's shad fishing below the damn. That's the story of
a lot of East Coast rivers when I was When
I was living there, man, I always wanted to go
and catch the shad, but I never did. Yeah, well,
hickories are a lot of fun. Um, they don't grow
as big as the Americans. Interesting though, they are a
much more aggressive shad. Right. So, whereas American shad, you

(30:44):
have to set your your darts and your spoons out
so they run into them and then they bite them.
Hickory shad, unlike Americans, also bite in salt water, so
you catch them in the rivers. But then there's also
runs in the fall along the entire Jersey Coast around
a lot of the inlets where you can cast spoons
like you're casting for blue fish or or throw flies,

(31:06):
and like you will see hickory shad blowing up bait fish.
American chad don't do that, so they're smaller, but they're
scrappy um and just a little further south to me,
you see a lot more that we have a much
better run of Americans here. There you go, folks. In
difference between American and hickory shad via Joe Surmeli back
to the back to the article here. So the article

(31:27):
that I like lifted this story from was by Newsweek,
and uh, the first thing I want to get into
is how damn click baity the article title is. It's
borderline inexcusable. Man. Uh, it has to be the most
click baity way you could possibly uh frame a shad?
How well, how else are you gonna make people care

(31:48):
about a hickory shad. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, sure,
but I mean like sure shad spend most of their
time in the salt right and only migrate to spawn.
But to frame that as as the article titled itself,
record breaking fish normally found in Atlantic Ocean caught in

(32:08):
Georgia River is just like, what was this doing here?
Oh well, I mean that dude, that's honest to god,
That's what drew me to thing. I was like, oh
my god, what they do like catch like a red
fish like way up somewhere, and it's an andronymous fish. Man,
that's like calling a record steelhead, record breaking fish normally

(32:29):
found in Pacific Ocean caught in a Washington River. I mean,
not that we're doing that anymore, but it doesn't it
just doesn't make any I thought that was funny, and
it's very funny. It's an a nadrumous fish, though not androminous.
I think that's from a sci fi movie, just like
you know, an idiot. All right, Well, you know we

(32:52):
all have those words man that we just can't get around.
And like, for whatever reason, my brain sees that and
goes andronymous. I know, it's an ADRUMUS. Anyway, I'm moving on.
Let's talk about records. Lately. It seems like all sorts
of records have been broken, and this extends across the US. So,

(33:13):
as we mentioned in Georgia, the record had not been
beaten for thirty years, got beat, and then got beat
again within like another year or so. Um. And this
has been happening everywhere. For example, in one alone, Idaho
certified eighteen new record breaking fish. In the same year,
Montana broke seven records in North Carolina. As similar pattern

(33:35):
as we're seeing with the Georgia Hickory chad occurred last
year when the state record for channel cats was broken
twice in the same year. Prior to that, the North
Carolina channel cat record had stood for over half a century.
As our very own, wildly talented colleague Maggie Hill, who
I referenced in the minutes there, recently reported the mean
mouth that's a hybrid smallmouth large mouth world record was

(33:59):
bro looking for the third time in a single year
in Texas. So what's up with all the record breaking?
Man um Experts have varying theories. Some include climate change
induced warming, prolonging growing seasons for fish, resulting in obviously
more growth. I wrote that like an idiot. Another theory

(34:20):
is that angler awareness of potential state records has increased
in our digital age, and you keep going, but I'm
going with that one. I think that's likely with information
on state records available at angler's fingertips no matter where
they are. And another theory is that COVID just got
a lot more people actively fishing, whether that's first timers
or fishermen with more time on their hands. All of

(34:42):
these theories make sense, and it makes you wonder how
long the trend will continue. Now, Joe, I know you
had something to say about the state records in a
digital age. Yeah, well it's a snappy title, man, Spencer.
You can have that and and and COVID is accurate, right,
there are more people out fishing, but yeah, straight up, man, like,
I think there are more people that get off on

(35:04):
like posting their record, channel cat or chat like. They
are just more people that are looking to achieve those goals,
whereas I don't know, dude, I might have caught the
world record Hickory Chad nineteen times in my life, but
I don't care, Like I wouldn't even be thinking I
wouldn't even look that up. And I think that's how
people used to operate. So for a state record to

(35:27):
fall or something, first and foremost, you had to look
at that thing and have a sense of like, holy
sh it, this is so big. I need to check
what the world record is. If I ever told you
my channel cat story, I might have even told it
on the podcast, Like long story, short man. I I
caught this huge channel cat that I thought was I

(35:49):
don't know, probably mid twenties something like that, like pounds,
and I asked my buddy, I said, hey, look up
with the state record channel cat is, or I think
I I mess this up. I said, look up what
the state record cat is. And my buddy, who was
not as super experienced fisherman, gave me the flathead catfish record,

(36:12):
not the channel cat record, and I was like, I
was like, oh, dude, not even in contention through the
thing back. Turns out that the channel cat record was
obviously significantly less. I think it's like pounds something like that,
and I don't think it would have been a state record.
I'm not saying like, oh, I definitely threw back up
state record fish, but like, at least it might have

(36:32):
been in contention, right, But do you lose sleep over
that not having that title? No? No, no no, no no.
But I'm saying like that, you know again pointing to
like the digital age thing, like I was able to reference.
That's right, it's exactly right. Was incredibly easy to call
that information up, no doubt, way to go, Jack. But
there are just certain but there are just certain things,

(36:53):
shad being one of them that like I don't know,
I wouldn't even who can't like who it's a HiT's
no disrespect to Timmy, but like it's a Hickory shad Man. Yeah,
I mean, well you know it's like you know, it's
an extension to like lying class records and like you know,
like sicklid records. If I'm going to go through the

(37:15):
effort of state recording something, I want people to see
it and go, oh damn, you know what I mean,
Like you know, so it's hey, we've talked about record chase,
something that folks really care about, like snakeheads. Yes that
was sarcastic. Please enter your password. You have one unheard

(37:36):
message is Carl. So we're sending out another drone operator
with another drone, So if you could please keep an
eye on your back cast. Drones were great, mere terrible
and thanks man. End of message, Delete priss seven save deleted. Alright,

(38:03):
so let's move over from the downplaying of Phish records
to the downplaying of fishing in general. A couple of
people sent this along. It's a weird one, but it's
just too ridiculous not to share, okay, and it comes
from the u K's Guardian headline. University Warrens woke students
that Ernest Hemingway's classic novel Old Man in the Sea

(38:24):
contains graphic scenes of fishing now long ago, like just wait,
do you just wait? Now long ago they think about
death in the afternoon, or for whom the bell tolls.
I'm going I'm going to tell you, maybe not very specifically,
but close now long ago. I expressed my feelings about

(38:48):
Ernest Hemingway on this show, but today those feelings are
neither here nor there, right, I will have you know. However,
Old Man in the Sea is I think the only
required summer high school reading I actually read. The rest
were all cliffs notes, and yes, of course it was
because it was about fishing. But also it is extremely short, right,
is it? It? Is a very short book. Thick ass

(39:08):
wuthering heights in Jane are naw dog like I got
stockers to catch get time for that right. I was
in Advanced English, even though I didn't read the books. Anyway, great, anyway,
I was an English major and didn't read the books.
You can't even pronounce a nadromus, So that means what
happened in Finnegans wake me and nobody else can tell you.

(39:31):
So look, I do think though, on the off chance
you're not familiar with the story, here's the super cliff
notes like crazy cliff notes, what's fasting? It's a guy
who doesn't care about books or interesting films and things
that an old man heads out to sea to fish.
He catches a giant marlin. It's too big to fit
in his little rowboats, so he ties it along the side,

(39:53):
but then spends the next few days trying to get
back to shore as he fends off sharks trying to
eat his marlin, and returns, as I recall, with nothing
but the head and the tail. So some say this
is the story is a metaphor for life. Others say
it's a metaphor for Christianity. But it is a classic,
right lover hate hemingway, It's a classic. But at the
University of the Highlands and Islands in Scotland, the metaphor

(40:16):
is apparently too violent, too disturbing for some readers. Um,
and I guess. So as not to overwhelm the school
counselors or whatever, the university put a content warning on
the book, alerting students that it contain quote graphic fishing scenes. Okay,
before we get to that, real quick, if you're the
listener already crafting an email in your head telling us

(40:36):
what your interpretation of the old Man in the Sea is, stop, yeah,
send that to Miles Nulty at anyway. Okay, so you
brought up what do they think about this, that or
the other thing? This is not the first book that
the university has added the content warning too. And here's
the thing. This, this determination, these warnings are are being

(40:58):
figured out by like their historical and literal society, right,
So it's not like one guy. Um. Others include Mary
Shelley's Frankenstein, which the content warning says contains violent murder
and cruelty, as well as Romeo and Juliet, which contains
quote uh, scenes of stabbing poison and suicide. So that

(41:18):
graphic content warning just kind of ruins the entire book
if you hadn't read it. You know what I'm saying,
Like like you just told me everything that's gonna happen,
like you figure out in the beginning of Well, clearly
I know exactly what's gonna happen. Anyway. A spokesman for
the university said they are doing this so students can
make informed choices. Um, And that's great, except I bet

(41:39):
most of the choices they make are not to take
the old man in the sea out of the library
and stay in their dorms, like watching horrible pranks going
wrong on TikTok and like people getting blown up on
the news. Right, so like we're gonna worry about old
man and see. Um. And I'm sorry, but but there's
a part like this reeks to me a little bit
of like that one kid, Like that one kid that

(42:00):
got all offended by something and complained because he thought
Frankenstein was gonna be like the lovable goofball he was
in Monster Squad. You know what I mean. It was
like terribly wrong. Um. Anyway, what are other very smart
people saying about the move to add graphic content warnings
to classic literature. They're saying that it is extremely dumb.
Mary Dearborn, the author of Ernest Hemingway at Biography, said

(42:23):
this is nonsense. Oh, I bet you she doesn't have
any I bet you she doesn't have any skin in
the game. Probably not, She says, this is nonsense. It
blows my mind to think students might be encouraged to
steer clear of the book. The world is a violent
place and it is counterproductive to pretend otherwise. Much of
the violence in this story is rooted in the natural world.
And she's right, it's it's it is the law of nature.

(42:45):
Now here's the here' you're gonna see trigger warnings outside
of yellow ste So here's the best part. Jeremy Black,
emeritus professor of history at the University of Exeter, added,
this is particularly stupid given the dependency of the economy
of the Highlands and Islands of Scotland on industries such

(43:06):
as commercial fishing and farming. So like, that's kind of
the clincher. Like one of the biggest industries in this
part of Scotland is freaking commercial fishing. In Santiago, the
main character of the book was a commercial fisherman, so
not to get off I'm trying not to get off
on a ran here, because boy could I. But I'll
just tell you, like, this is what bothers me most.

(43:28):
And it's not the specific incident or the graphic content
warning on one book, but I think it speaks a
little bit to the vulnerability of outdoors pursuits in the
public eye in general. Right, Like if one organization can
decide fishing is worthy of a graphic content warning, is
it reasonable to assume And I'm I'm asking this, I'm

(43:48):
not stating things like, but is it reasonable to assume
that in time like fishing, books or videos could just
be labeled to something graphic? You know what I mean?
Like if you scoff at that, has it not already
happened in hunting? You know? If enough people speak up
and say that's wrong, and I don't want to see
that suddenly a pastime enjoyed Bible a lot of people
can be contained on YouTube or Facebook, you know what

(44:08):
I mean. I just want to close by saying I
don't think that's going to happen with fishing. I don't
think so. But putting the graphic warning on old Man
in the sea means that enough people within what you'd
assumes an organization of smart people signed off and said, yes,
I agree with this decision. We collectively agree there should
be a graphic warning about the fishing in a classic

(44:29):
Hemingway book. I think it's something to think about. Well,
you know they're in like why. I don't know, man,
I don't have anything smart to say about this. I
wish I did. Dude, did you read The Old Man
in the Sea? Yeah? Sure, did? I think that? Um,
all right, here's where I think. Take your time if

(44:50):
you need to do. We can pause for a second,
cut it if you want a noodle on it. No, no,
I got it. I think that. Um. I think a
lot of time there are things that we are exposed
to in life that we don't have the tools to
deal with, um, a shocking death, some sort of trauma.

(45:14):
I also think that literature is a safe space to
be exposed to those traumas in like a nonconsequential wealth
put and and at least help you develop the tools
you need to navigate things you're gonna come up in life.
For instance, when I was a when I was a

(45:36):
kid in fifth grade, we read a book called The K.
Have you ever read that one? I'm not familiar with
that one. Now. It's like it's a like a it's
like a little like novella kind of deal. It's like,
I I forget if it's like one of those well
known books or I mean, I'm sure it's well known. Anyway.
The K is about a a little privileged kid who

(46:00):
who's I think it's like the boat that his family
is on sinks and he's left with this dude I
think Timothy is his name, and Timothy is a blackfellow.
And this is at a point in time where like
racial like tensions are like high in society, right, So,
like in a lot of ways as a fifth grader,

(46:22):
that was like one of my first exposures to like
a a long explication of like the ideas of like racism,
and like, you know, it's you understand what I totally do.
I totally do that. That was so good. I may
have to get filled to put from the arms of
the Angel under under what you just did again. I'm

(46:42):
just God, don't do it and just let me like
I'm letting you anyway, So what is the whole point
of kids read books at different stages throughout their life,
like that's part, that's part. So I will say that that,
you know, twenty something years later, I'm still trying to
figure out what the Catcher in the Rye was about.
Like I just don't really get it, and I don't

(47:03):
want to get off on it. But that was one
it was like, Oh, Joey, it just kills me. Man,
it just kills me that you don't know that. It's
like all this hype, like next year we get to
read Catcher in the Rye. I'm like, I don't get it. Anyway,
We'll see what what Phil got this week. This should
be a good one from Phil based on these two
choices of story. And then after him, let's keep it salty. You.
I'm gonna do an end of the line on a

(47:24):
jig that you actually might be able to catch a
Marlin on um or if not, at least a big
s tuna. You know, it's been a while and I'm
feeling generous today, so I think I'm gonna give the
wind to Hayden this week. Congrats. I know we're over
halfway through the show and things like this generally go

(47:45):
up at the top of something, but I thought I'd
go ahead an issue a trigger warning for Bent, you know,
just in case there are any discerning listeners out there
who could use it. Okay, here we go warning. The
Bent podcast contains graphic depictions of two white guys talking
behind microphones and engaging in self congratulatory mental masturbation for
about sixty minutes, give or take. Also, occasionally a guy

(48:07):
named Bob the garbage Man will show up, and Uh,
at that point, I don't even know what to warn
you about. You're on your own. All bets are off. Well,
that's not loud enough. I was twenty two years old,
fresh out of college and working at Saltwater Sportsman magazine

(48:28):
the first time I ever heard the words butterfly jig spoken.
This was two thousand five, and our editor, Dave di
Benedetto had just returned from a trip to the Gulf
with Shimano where he got a first hand lesson about
the jig Shamano claimed would revolutionize saltwater fishing. Now I
was intrigued, of course, but not overly so. Why Because

(48:49):
at that age I was still glued to striper fishing
in the surf. That's what I knew, and more importantly,
that's what I could afford, and I hadn't been around
long enough to make friends and contacts with boats that
could take you off shore locally and actually use a
butterfly jig. But I clearly remember Dave being impressed with
its performance. It was also the first time American saltwater

(49:11):
anglers were introduced to the idea of a system, a
marketing strategy Shimano would continue for years to come. So
you couldn't just buy the butterfly jig and send it
down on your favorite ugly stick paired with the Mitchell
three hundred. For the jig to work properly, they said
it needed to be paired with their rods and reels
specifically designed for butterfly jigging. At the time I scoffed

(49:34):
the idea to fish Laura, I had to spend hundreds
more on your rod and reel. And I wasn't the
only one that felt this way, nor was I the
only one that questioned the productivity of this whole deal. Yes,
Dave had caught some red snappers and groupers, as I recall,
but as a giant blue fin tuna or yellow fin
tuna really gonna eat that little chunk of metal, and
if it does, with that little chunk of metal be

(49:54):
able to hang on long enough to land it. If
you take the design it face value, you can see
why an offshore angler may have been skeptical back in
the day. Butterfly jigs are thin profile, heavy jigs, some
wider and some extremely thin. Whereas the metal jigs we
were familiar with prior to two thousand five featured a
single or treble hook dangling at the bottom, butterfly jigs

(50:18):
came with assist hooks, something US anglers were not familiar
with at all. Assist hooks are heavy gage single hooks
tied or crimp to each end of a very heavy
piece of braided line or dacron, which is then looped
onto a solid steel ring. There are several configurations of
assist hooks, but regardless of the style, that ring they're

(50:39):
tied to is attached to the heavy duty split ring
on the top of the jig, not the bottom, dangling
freely as the jig does its thing. Now, that thing
is sort of a walk the dog action like you'd
see from a top water spook, only it's achieved in
a completely vertical orientation by pumping and reeling simultaneously at
a fast pace, thus giving birth to the now very

(51:03):
common term high speed jigging. What was a revolutionary concept
here had been common in Japan for more than a
decade before butterflies hit tackle shop shells. It's no secret
that many of the lures and tackle pieces we use
routinely today were developed by the Japanese first. But in
many ways, the butterfly jig had as much to do

(51:23):
with catching more fish as it did simple efficiency. The
Japanese love their fish right, and they want as many
in the boat as possible, as fast as possible. Now,
if you think about a traditional metal jake like a
Hopkins or a cast Master, your line is connected directly
to one end of the loure and the hook is
connected to the bottom of the loure. Any pressure you
put on the line is pulling directly against the heavy metal,

(51:45):
and as the lore flops around during the fight, the
way to the lord itself can in fact dislodge the hook.
The Japanese figured out that assist hooks provide a better
connection from the rod directly to the hook instead of
the loure, thus reducing fish laws. They also figured out
that by reducing the weight of their rods and reels
while simultaneously making them stronger. They could actually put more

(52:08):
heat on the fish and land them much faster. To
do that, of course, to make that kind of tackle,
you end up creating much more expensive rods and reels,
which is why back in two thousand five so many
people said, yeah, okay, Shimano whatever. Fast forward to today,
and high speed jigging is a part of the vernacular
of salty anglers on every coast in the United States.

(52:30):
Matter of fact, it's so yesterday's news that now Shimano
is leading the charge in the other direction with slow
pitch jigging, because if you think fast was cool, wait,
un do you see what happens when you pump the brakes.
But anyway, that's a whole other end of the line segment.
These days, high speed butterfly jigs are produced by hundreds
of companies and price ranges to fit almost any budget.
Light jigging rods that have the backbone to beat big

(52:53):
tuna are found in every tackle shop from variety of
makers to almost fit any budget as well. Since first
here about butterfly jigs way back when I was the
saltwater sports been intern I've gotten used them a lot
for everything from golf snappers, two keys, amberjacks to Jersey tuna,
but I don't think I'll ever forget my first connection
with one. It was during a Bluefin run a few

(53:16):
years later, after Butterflies hit the scene, and the buddy
whose boat I was on and who had a lot
more money than me at the time, was the kind
of guy that liked to stock his sled with the
latest and greatest. So when we came over a pile
of marks, he handed me a butterfly rod and said
drop it. Now. I've never used one before, so he said,
just real fast and pump. At the same time, I

(53:37):
was trying to say like this, but only got out
like before. It felt like I had snagged the Titanic.
It was one of the most impressive dead stop rod
bending hits I'd ever felt, and it is a very
addicting kind of hit. It's the brown trout crumpling the
streamer on steroids. It's the bass annihilating the frog times ten.

(54:01):
And if you've never experienced a high speed jig hit man,
you really should. And I will now be putting high
speed jigging on my list of things to do. You know,
I I don't really think it's it's translated over to
sweetwater at least not the exact SAMEE presentation. But you

(54:21):
you could scale it down like I don't see why
it wouldn't work for things like lakers and pike through
the ice. The one thing about high speed is that
it is designed for fish that are not messing around.
I mean, they can't be like nippers, like they gotta
be ready to just trash the thing. It's time to
start prototyping up some micro butterfly jigs that could Yeah,
there you go, that could be the next big thing. Man,

(54:42):
Just scale it down anyway. Um, that was a great
back story on a modern lure that has a stronghold
in the saltwater scene. But we're going to discuss another
one that has kind of taken over in the bast scene.
Joining us on the bent Helpline today is none other
than the aforementioned Mike I canelli to wait has made
fun of way In on this bait and whether it's

(55:04):
knocked another classic out of favor. What do you laughing at,
Mark Deiny? You're not an idiot, You're not a damn loony.
How Moore, you're a fisherman ever best what's your emergency?
So joining us today for the ben helpline? How about
this for help? How about Mike? I canelli to help

(55:24):
with the bass fishing question? What are the odds? Right? So?
Who who is the lucky listener? That is Kyle Alston
who sent this question in? And I gotta admit I've
been sitting on it because, like I told Mike, I
could kind a weigh in on this, but not nearly
as good as as he can. I don't think you know,
I'm gonna offer quite as much perspective. So Mike, how

(55:46):
you doing? Man? We all, as always we appreciate you
being here doing great, great, cool cool. So I'm very
curious to to get your take on this. It's a
it's a simple question, maybe with a complex answer, and
maybe you might disagree with it. So this is what
Kyle writes He's as growing up, I swear all my
dad would ever throw for bass was a spinner bait.
Therefore I used to throw a lot of spinner baits too,

(56:08):
he says. I try to stay up on modern bass tactics,
and I feel like, for the most part, people just
don't talk much about spinner baits anymore. Have they become obsolete?
I still catch fish on them, but it seems like
chatter baits get a lot more love. Yeah. Well, I'm
gonna let you go first, because you know you're Mike.
I can so I can tell you this, Kyle, that

(56:28):
was a great question. It really is a good question.
And um, fishing trends, fishing lores. It's a lot like fashion.
I always like to convert it to fashion. My wife
would be happy I'm saying this right now. Things come
in and out of style a lot. Right if you
look at fashion, Joe, come on, you remember where parachute pants?
Don't you? Zoo Baz? Do you remember zoob Yeah with

(56:54):
the zebra stripes. Yeah yeah, yeah, stuff is out. But
whether we want admit it or not, it's gonna come
back a style a little bit. Uh. Well, yeah, Hayden
wears them. Now they come back. Hayden's got him on
right now. That's but I really think the same is

(57:14):
true for the spinner bait. You know, the spinner bait
has definitely lost favor to other trending techniques. And I
would say the chatter bait vibration jig for sure is
something that has pushed the spinner bait out, But the
spinner bait is so important to me, and I'm serious.
It's always tied on one rod in my rod ocker

(57:36):
at all times, and that that's I'm talking about, super dirty, muddy,
water stained, crystal clear, fifty degree pre spawn to heat
of the summer eighty degree water temperature. It's always tied on.
And the one thing that a spinner bait does is
it is the perfect lore for a combination of flash

(57:58):
and vibration together. So you know, if we were just
looking for vibration, chatter bait might be a better bait.
If we were just looking for flash, a jerk bait
or a spoon might be a better bait. But that
spinner bait is the perfect combination of both of those attributes.

(58:21):
And to me, it's the original Alabama ray right. It's
when you look at that spinner bait, it looks like
a little school of bait fish coming through the water.
You add that to the safety pin design of a
spinner bait and you could throw it anywhere. Just to
give you a real quick example that a chatter bait.
I love a chatter bait. Don't be throwing a chatter bait,

(58:43):
no stumps and would because you're gonna be hung up
with that john every five seconds. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
But the spinner bait by design, right that wire is
it the fleck tour to the bait, and it stops
it from getting snagged on wood, rock, even grass. Um,

(59:05):
it's a terrific bait. So my answer to that is,
don't get rid of your spinner bait anytime soon. It's
still a really good bait. The main thing I would
say is the blades are the most important thing on
a spinner bait. And if you want more vibration, you
go to a Colorado. If you want more flash, you
go to a willow. If you want something that sits

(59:28):
right in the middle, you fish in Indiana style blade
right on, right on, now'll see. I would also say,
even though I know there's some very very well made
spinner baits out there, chatter baits aren't cheap, but you
can still get them like two job or spinner baits
at the Walmart, you know what I mean. So like
if if you if you lose a few of them,
you don't really care. Um, dude, I I have, I
have not much more to add to that other than

(59:49):
I agreed with the question that I feel the same
way like snakehead fishing and stuff. Everybody's got chatter baits,
chatter baitch chatterbaitch chatter baits, and like nobody seems to
be throwing a spinner bait anymore. But they're as they're
definitely not obsolete, so that's the wrong way to to
think of it. So just not fashionable. They're not fashionable
at the moment, but they're still just as good. Well

(01:00:10):
appreciate that. Mike um Kyle, you just got your question
answered by Mike. I can elly. If you have a
question that you want answered, keep firing them off to
us at Bent at the Meat Eater dot com and
maybe we can help you out. So that's it for
this week. Big thanks again to Ike for dropping by

(01:00:32):
with some knowledge and clarity about spinner bates. Also to
every charter guide, you are welcome for the giant no
reeling the swivel into the tip guide p s A yeah,
and if you happen to have a shot of yourself
just after losing a fish to a chip guide, please
be sure to post it using the Degenerate Angler and
Bent podcast hashtags. Likewise, if you've got an awkward photo,
send it to Bent at the Meat eatar dot com,

(01:00:54):
along with any Saleman items, bar nominations, questions, or news
clips you want us to read. That is right. And finally, kids,
do Dad a favor and learn the clinch not he
brought you into this world. It's the least you can do.
You haven't gotten a job, clean the garage, or finished
your first college, I say yet, so at least, given
the satisfaction of knowing you can tie on a rooster
tail