April 16, 2024 • 47 mins
In today's episode, Laura and Sarah discuss when they themselves became "financial grownups" and then expert guest Bobbi Rebell joins Laura to share ways we can encourage a mature approach to money matters even from a young age. In the Q&A, a listener wonders how Laura and Sarah keep track of their calendars without relying on a digital system (like Google or Apple Calendar).
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi. I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
and speaker.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician,
writer and course creator. We are two working parents who
love our careers and our families.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.
From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals.
We want you to get the most out of life.
Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This
episode is airing in mid April of twenty twenty four.
(00:48):
We are just around tax Day in the United States,
so appropriately we are having a financial themed episode. I'm
going to be interviewing Bobby Rebel, who is the author
of lawng Financial Grown Ups. She also has a company
that is organized around the same concept of how you
can help young adults begin their financial lives preparing for
(01:11):
the grown up world of money and all the things
they will need to know for that. So, especially for
our listeners who have tweens and teens, some topics that
definitely might be worth thinking about as you ponder how
to help your kids build their own independent lives. So,
speaking of being a financial grown up, Sarah, at what
(01:31):
point were you actually a financial grown up? If we
are at this point, I guess we are. We both
have mortgages. That's like, yeah, right there, yes, you are
growing up a mortgage.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
But I definitely feel like I was a much later
bloomer to financial adulthood than you.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
As you're going to share.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Your story in college, I would classify myself as fairly
irresponsible before that, also fairly irresponsible if I had any
money lying around, and I always enjoyed earning some money,
but I also enjoyed spending some money, so so it
didn't stick around for very long. And then I did
take a trip to Europe in which I put everything
(02:08):
on my credit card and had to be bailed out
by my parents. Okay, like full disclosure, it was a
very inexpensive trip, like we were staying in hostels. I
don't think the grand total was anything all that crazy,
but my parents did kindly bail me out but told
me they would never ever ever do that again, so
that I better grow up from here on out. And
you know what I did, I did, I really did,
(02:29):
because then I was an MDPHD and I lived on
a like eighteen thousand dollars a year salary, and I
was like, Okay, this is all I have and I
can't go in the negative because I have to pay
my rent every month. And I actually ended up moving
in with Josh after we started dating, but I paid
portion of the mortgage for the house that he had, so, like,
(02:49):
I think I became a grown up at that point.
I was not good about saving, but at least I
understood how, I mean, how much can you say when
you're earning eighteen thousand dollars a year? Maybe Laura could,
but I couldn't. But at least that was good about
not allowing myself to go into the red and understanding
what a budget was. And then I feel like my
first couple of years of earning a real salary, I
(03:11):
was just sort of like, I don't know, figuring things out.
It seemed to me from the outset like the money
was going to be infinite, and became very quickly clear
that it wasn't. And so in twenty fifteen we discovered
you need a budget and became really systematic about saving.
And I feel like that is actually when I became
a financial grown up Wow, thirty five, twenty fifteen, not
(03:31):
that long ago.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
So wait, I got a pun. So Josh owned a
house in med school.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
It was a very inexpensive house. He had worked prior
to that, so he was.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Right because he started it older. That's right, Okay, Yeah,
and I think there was some help there as well.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
That house was bought for something like one hundred and
thirty thousand dollars and then sold for like one hundred
and thirty thousand dollars, So it was not like it
was not a fancy house.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Was he renting out other rooms of it? Was it
like that kind of thing? Or no?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
No, no, I mean how much can you spit up
a house that's that size? And the neighborhood quickly didn't
do so well, hence us selling it. Actually, we may
have sold it for under what we bought it for,
which is kind of what we do in our in
our family.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yeah, real estate history. Fortunately, there are booms and bus
in the younger household seems to uh there moves. Unfortunately,
you can't always time these things to being convenient for
the real estate market. I've started thinking back, like I
went away for high school for my last two years,
and so I had to have some way of paying
for things. I actually had my own check book. I
(04:35):
remember checkbooks for like it was, which I remember then
because I wanted to get my college decision letters at
my mailing address at school, and so I had written
the checks for the application fees. I think my parents
would put money in the account for that, but it's
kind of funny to think. I wonder how many kids
are signing their own checks to pay for their application
(04:56):
fees for college. It's probably not that many. But yeah,
my first you know, I worked in the summers in college.
I got my first apartment for a summer we could
do a temporary rental thing. I shared with a couple
of people in Washington, d c. My so, I, you know,
had apartment in nineteen I learned to cook. That was
kind of fun. And then my first job after college,
I had this year long internship at USA Today where
(05:19):
my stipend for the year was something like eighteen thousand,
and you know, I really my take home pay was
like twelve hundred dollars a month, and I remember my
rent was five hundred and eighty dollars, so you know,
you had six hundred twenty bucks to play around with
each month, and it was mostly fine. I didn't have
a car, I was taking public transit and shopped sales
at the grocery store and cooked most of my own
meals and also created margin by freelancing, you know, I
(05:44):
sort of the more I think about it, if I
had really truly tried to live on just that, it
would have been a lot tighter. But then I was like, well,
I can write for places people are willing to pay me.
And the good news about having a take home pay
of twelve hundred dollars a month is that even if
you're getting like three hundred dollars for something, it feels
like a pretty big raise. So that was, you know,
I was able to save most of that, which helped,
(06:05):
you know, finance the move to New York City after that.
But yeah, I mean I remember reading like the newspaper
when I was twelve or thirteen years old, waiting for
the bus and looking at the stocks and being interested
in the stock market at the time. And now it
would have been great if I'd actually invested then, But
of course that's not something my parents knew much about
at all. And the upside is that we are now
(06:26):
having our kids do that. They get a brokerage account
when they are ten, we do a match of money
that they have saved up. It's a fairly sizable match
multiple of what they have saved up so that we
can meet the brokerage minimum. Then they choose what they're
going to invest in. And I'm not sure if everyone's
(06:46):
learning the right lessons from this. Like one child didn't
want to invest in anything because there was a possibility
of losing money, which I don't think is the right
lesson to learn. Another child was kind of getting into
the day trade idea and be like, look, I made
fifty bucks today without doing anything. I'm like, oh no,
that's maybe not the right lesson either. But you know,
(07:07):
you're young, you don't have to buy index funds. I
don't know. It's probably good they're learning it now whatever
they can be financial grown ups. Even earlier, it turns
out that Disney was not a great stock to own,
even if you love Disney, they was, for a long
period of time, really crappy stuff tooon.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I kind of feel like, if you let that experiment
go on long enough, if there was one of the
five kids that chose index funds, they're probably going to
win and then they will all learn a good lesson.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yeah, and the one child is, you know, still in
the whatever the brokerage random interest rate is because they
refused to people's personalities come out very young. All right, Well,
let's hear what Bobby has to say about Launching Financial
Grown Ups. So Sarah and I are delighted to welcome
(07:51):
Bobby Rebel to the program. She is a journalist turned
author turned financial wellness consultant. Is the author of the
book Launching Finance Grown Ups, which I know is relevant
to a lot of people with kids in the teen
emerging adult years. So welcome Bobby. Thank you so much
for having me.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
I am a listener and a big fan of the podcast.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Thank you so much. Well, why don't you introduce a
little bit more about yourself to our listeners.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Well, first of all, again, thank you for having me,
and thank you for that introduction. I am a mom
of three in a blended family. I have now a
twenty seven year old, a twenty four year old, and
a sixteen year old. The twenty seven year old is
I sort of already launched, and the twenty four year
old is in the middle of launching. I would say
he's out of college, had his first job, and now
(08:41):
figuring out a pivot, and then the teenager is on
the crux of getting ready to start thinking about college.
He took his first practice Act recently. So I'm sort
of mixed feelings because in a way, I'm sort of
happy to be in the home stretch of it, but
also it's hitting me hard as a parent that, wow,
this phase of my life is really about to start changing,
(09:04):
and so I'm sort of bracing for that. And career wise,
I'm going through some changes as well, expanding my business
beyond being an author into more financial wellness consulting.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
I have a company called Financial Wellness Strategies.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
We do workshops for companies, for schools, for parent groups,
and I'm now expanding into doing some limited private consulting.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Awesome, Well, let's talk a little bit about your journey
of launching at least two financial grownups at this point
a third, we hope in a couple of years. Was
it a smooth flying path. Was it bumpy? Maybe you
could talk a little bit about that. It was so bumpy, Laura.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
It was really tragic because, as we mentioned, I had
been a journalist for many years and I was in
the business beat, so I interviewed CEOs and talked about money.
I even at one point had a globally syndicated column
on personal finance topics.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
And yet my almost adult children.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
And I'm referencing the older ones at this point were
one was just starting college, when was in high school,
and they were not really receptive to my mini lessons
about money, and I found it very frustrating. And one
thing that I write about in the book Launching Financial
Grown Ups is my efforts, for example, to get them
to open up wrath iras.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
So I had kids that were good kids.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
They both were earning money because they liked to earn money,
and which is great. Ashley was always learning to be
higher and higher level as a lifeguard. She was very
good at teaching, and so she was keenly aware that
if she got different certifications she could make more money.
And number two, Bradley was very enterprising teaching kids fencing.
He eventually went to school basically recruited for fencing.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
You're very good at that.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
So these were good, ambitious kids doing their thing, and
yet I couldn't get them to open up a wroth Ira.
Why I was like, you guys have all this money,
they weren't big spenders, and they would always yes me,
and I kind of had to figure out, Okay, what
is going on? And so that inspired the book because
you had an educated parent, you had kids that were
sort of on a good bath path.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
These weren't problem kids.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
And so I figured, well, I know, one thing I've
accessed to as a journalist is experts, Right, I could
tune in and ask people. I had financial therapy friends,
I had parenting expert friends, and I of course had
money expert friends. And so the book really taps into that.
I figured I had a problem. Maybe other people did too,
And I think that was proven pretty true because the
book has really resonated with a lot of parents, and
(11:28):
I should say grandparents.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yeah, well, I mean, what was it. Let's talk about
the roth Ira, because I mean, was it just that
it's annoying to call customer service somewhere, It's annoying to
find documents. I mean, what would you say it was?
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Yeah, So for the older one, she was just yesing me,
and like I would always first of all, approach them
at absolutely the wrong time.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
I learned, you know, they're walking out the door.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
It's it's been anything you want a kid to do,
especially a teenager, if you're interrupting something that they are
just they're going to say what they want to say.
So they would say I'm on it. They wouldn't say
I'm doing it. They would say I heard you, I know,
I understand, but they wouldn't say I'm doing it. And
I would give them, as you said, I would give
them the name of somebody at the brokerage firm that
I used to said. You can talk to a human,
(12:09):
you can go online, you can open up with a
different company. I don't care what you do. What do
you need to get this done? And the oldest one
looked at me and she said, but you didn't ask
me about my goals and what I want to do
with the money. Well, what she wanted to do with
the money, Laura, was she wanted to save it to
buy an apartment a down payment, and if she put
it in an investment account, then she'd be risking it,
(12:31):
and since you know, you're supposed to have a.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Five year time horizon, that was not the right thing
for her to do. Right. Yeah, So she didn't want to.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Have a conflict with me, But in fact, I was
giving her the wrong advice because I hadn't asked her
her goal.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah, now that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Yeah, yeah, so I wasn't listening to her. Actually I
wasn't listening because I wasn't even asking her, yeah, whether
it made sense for her.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
And then number two was more of a classic thing.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
He was just a teen who just wasn't getting around
to it, and I needed to actually sit with him.
And what I've done with him that's worked so well
and I'm so proud of him, is generally when there's
something to do, I kind of sit side by side.
And this is something Julie Lythcott Haynes who wrote How
to Raise an Adult Advocate, So I got this from her.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
I just want to give her credit.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
You sit with them at the computer, and the first
time you sort of show them what to do, the
second time you watch them do it. You know what
I mean. It's a gradual progression. And I really had
to sit down with him and set it up. And
I'll tell you right now, he has a very nice
amount of money in that roth Ira and to the
point where he was able to fully fund it and
then also open a non retirement Brokeridge account and so
(13:38):
because he didn't have the goal to buy an apartment.
He has done very well over the years with his investing,
and we have conversations about investing.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
He was very critical.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
And I don't know when this is going to come out,
but right now, in Video is in the news, and
he wanted to know why I hadn't bought in Video
and we had a whole conversation, and he told me
about his friends that were day trading on how much
his friends made one in Vidia. Point is we're having
the conversations. It doesn't actually matter what I did or
didn't do an investing. The point is he's asking questions,
we're having conversations, and he's learning to make his own decisions.
(14:09):
He did go and buy Nvidio. I personally thought it
was overvalued. Today as of this recording, he's up.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
YEP could be down in another week or two. Whoever knows.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Yes, it's but the moody is real, real, and he's
investing it. And I don't want to say it doesn't
matter what he does. I mean, if he comes to
me and says an investment that I don't think is good,
I'll tell him why I don't think it's good. But
I also tell him I could be wrong. I also
don't own any bitcoin, and right now I don't look
so smart, but I don't know. But you have to
(14:43):
let your kids make those mistakes. Investing the important thing,
and they have so much time, Laura, Yeah, I mean,
I don't want to see.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Summer many many years for things to recover.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Even he says his friends are day trading, you can
say to a kid, well, I don't think that's the
way to go, but if you think that's something interesting,
why don't you take ten percent of your savings and
you can day trade with that if that's what they want.
Because what you really don't want to do, especially with teenagers,
is create an environment where they feel you will judge
them and therefore they will hide a mistake. So an
(15:15):
example of that would be maybe they ran up credit
card debt and they don't tell you because they know
you would be disappointed. They know they should know better.
You don't want them to run up the credit card debt,
But the only thing worse than that is to hide
it from you and not be able to have that conversation.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
So what does it mean to be a financial grown up?
I mean, I've spondered this, I wonder if I am
a financial grown up at this point, many years along
from the teenage years, But what would you define as
being a financial grown up? I think it's.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Important that everyone have their own definition to some degree,
but essentially it's taking responsibility and ownership of your financial life.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
What that means.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
So with kids, I like to tell them kids, I'm
talking about teenagers in early twenties, I want to see
the numbers.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
What does it cost to be you? What does a cost?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
As the middle child this recently, what would have cost
to you if you were to do X, Y and z.
Because he's figuring out career plans. Can your career plan
support what you want? The lifestyle that you want? And
you have to find a balance, right, If you want
to live a very modest lifestyle, you can choose a
career that supports that. And so it's really important for
them to understand the math of their own life.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
And then we have to.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Take a step back because sometimes we impose on them
our own values and our own priorities when it comes
to the lifestyle that we want to live, and we
over subsidize them. In other words, they'll say, I want
to do this, and I'm willing to live this way,
and I'm willing to have three roommates because I want
to go do this career that's very risky and I
won't have enough money. We have to be careful not
(16:46):
to interfere with that. We have to let it play out.
And it is really hard. It's something that I struggle
with to this day because we want to make their
life easier, especially if we struggled. We relate to that,
and it's sometimes harder. The more resources you have to
teach a kid to be a financial grown up, it's hard.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Well do you think it's in general harder than in
the past? And I know, I know there's been a
lot of headlines about between levels of student loans or
the price of housing in certain markets, although obviously it
sounds like your daughter did in fact manage to purchase
a home, so she's, you know, the millennial gen z
whatever is that has managed to become a property owner.
But do you think, I mean, is it harder or
(17:27):
is it not? I mean, what did you say.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I do think that there are some systemic societal changes
that have happened, but I also think the lens that
we see things through has changed, and I think it's
very interesting to observe as a society that very often
we will frame it, for example, as a negative when
someone moves home after college or stays home after high
school if they're not going to college.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
And I view it.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
In most cases as a positive because I think it's
unrealistic to stay to someone. Okay, you just graduated college,
possible with debt too. You're getting your first job, hopefully
your lowest paying job.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Ever.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
You may or may not have health insurance and other
benefits because the gig economy has grown so much, and
because we now have the Affordable Care Act and so
a lot of companies can sort of get away with
not giving health insurance until kids are twenty six. So
is it even realistic to set a kit up for
failure to go out and suddenly be their own household? Like?
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Why is that considered the norm? Why isn't the norm?
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Hey, if it's available, to go home, regroup, create a
financial foundation, as our oldest did, right she stayed home
for two years. I discussed this in the book in
more detail, but basically, in launching Financial Grown Ups, I
explain how she moved home with a very specific plan.
She wasn't a slacker like we used to call gen
xers when we moved home. She was very much proactively
(18:51):
saving to have not only the money for a down payment,
to have the money for the closing costs, to make
sure her credit score was high enough that she could
get a good mortgage and make sure she had the
emergency backup fund so she wouldn't have to ask us
for money, knowing that we would be there if she
did need it. I think it's really important for parents
to not say we're not there for you. Let the
kid know we're there for you, but we expect you
(19:13):
won't need it. We hope you won't need it, but
of course we're going to be there for you. I
think that should be the norm. Let kids come home,
because how else are they going to build an emergency fund.
If they're living paycheck to paycheck and they're struggling to
pay down student debt, which we know mathematically is higher
than it was in past generations, it's not realistic for
us to just kind of throw them out there to
the wolves. And I also think, and we learned this
(19:35):
in COVID, that there's a very special relationship when adult
kids can live at home for a defined period of time,
with a plan, with an exit strategy. I'm not saying indefinitely,
because they do have to grow up, but it's kind
of nice to have that relationship evolve and for them
to see you. With the launch of this book, I
(19:55):
finally learned some of the ups and downs that my
parents had had financially that I had no idea and
it took until now for it to come out, prompted
by the book. But my parents, I think, to some degree,
overshielded me because I never understood that maybe it wasn't
so easy to write that check for something going on.
I was oblivious as a child. Let them in the
amount you feel comfortable. I'm not saying open it all
(20:18):
up if it's not appropriate, but sometimes sharing with them
that you're just not a bottomless pit of money to
support whatever activity they want can be really valuable.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
And also just empathetic.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
If they understand that you didn't always have it so easy,
and you struggled, and maybe you had career insecurities or
whatever it may be, that really opens up a new
chapter in your relationship that can be so wonderful, awesome.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
All right, well, we're going to take a quick ad break.
We'll be back with more from Bobbie Ravel about launching
financial gurn Ups. Well, we are back talking with Bobby
(21:03):
Rebel about how we can launch Financial grown Up, since
she's been talking about how moving back home is not
necessarily a sign of failure, that it can be a
way to build wealth in the early years when your
earnings might be low, and then you have that possibility.
But let's back up a few more years. Let's talk
teen years. Okay, So we have a lot of listeners
(21:26):
who have kids in the tween and teen ages and
they're saying, well, I'd like to have good financial conversations
with my kids. What are some ways we can open
up that topic and some good ideas for how to
teach kids a little bit more about how they might
handle money before they're actually going out on their own.
Oh my gosh, I love this question.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
And the answer to your question is to ask questions,
ask them, ask them what matters to them, and ask
them how they feel about certain things. Right, and look
for openings in whatever is going on in your daily life.
So you might just put them in charge, for example,
of the groceries one week, even if you're paying for it,
ask them to figure out how to make a budget work,
(22:09):
or think about ways to get them I guess to
kind of extract what their goals are and what they're
doing to get to those goals. So, for example, thinking
about the kind of lifestyle that they want to lead,
what's important to them? Do they want to live in
a city, Well, what career choices would make sense for that?
Or what are you interested in? Hey, what does that pay?
(22:30):
Because now we have so much salary information available online,
they can go through, well what does it cost to
be me? And what is the cost it? Does the
math work if I want this career?
Speaker 1 (22:40):
And so for.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Example, I'm giving a lot of my own examples here.
With our oldest she had wanted to be a teacher.
She was constantly getting higher and higher certifications with their lifeguards.
She was amazing with kids, a great camp counselor.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
But she did the math what does it cost to
be me?
Speaker 3 (22:55):
In New York City where she wanted to live and
to be comfortable and be able to go out with
her friends. And she ended up switching majors in college
because she wanted more income, And I think that's fine.
She found something that she also loved, and she's a
cybersecurity consultant now and pays better than teaching, and it's
(23:15):
also fulfilling. And that doesn't mean that some days she
won't teach. It doesn't mean maybe she won't teach a
course on cybersecurity at a local college, right, So you
can do that. But sometimes what you love doesn't have
to be what you do for money, and I think
that's an important lesson for teenagers. It's also important for
parents to realize the way that they're communicating with their
children and the subtle messages that they send can really
(23:36):
have an impact. There's a theory called your money scripts.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Have you heard of this? I've heard that we certainly
have stories about money and our heads from our backgrounds.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
So the term money script actually comes from a financial
therapist who's also a CFP named Brad Klants, and so
people can google that and learn more about it. But
he basically talks about the fact that we have unconscious
beliefs about money that stem from our childhood. So I
say this because I want parents to be very mindful
that it's not only what you directly communicate to children
(24:06):
and teens, it's what they're observing and basically your household
culture when it comes to money and the unwritten and
unsaid things that you say.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
So maybe you.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Get a bill and you are discussing it with your
partner and they overhear it, or they hear the stress
in your voice, or they hear the excitement in your
voice when something good happens in your career or something
like that. Just be aware that they're understanding more than
you might realize, and that the unconscious messages that you're
sending to them that are shaping the way that they
(24:39):
view money. And I think that's really important for parents also,
especially with teenagers.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, and I mean with that though, I think a
question probably at least some number of our listeners may
have is maybe they didn't grow up with as much
resources as they now have. So whatever script they absorbed
from their growing up, I mean, there just wasn't as
much money around, which means that there are harder choices
to make all the time. Or if their parents said
(25:04):
we can't afford something, they actually believed it. So when
they are growing up though, with more resources which children
can pick up on. You know, they can google your
address and see what you paid for your house, right,
I mean, there's just the level of transparency is there
in a way that I think was not necessarily in
the past. How can you sort of direct those scripts
(25:26):
to recognizing that you still do have to make smart choices.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
I love this question and it comes up all the time.
It's probably one of the most common questions that I get.
There was a trend recently on TikTok called loud budgeting,
and I wish I had been so clever to come
up with this term. I call it peer positive peer pressure.
Because kids see so much, whether it's on social media
or just among their friends about different things and wanting
to kind of keep up. You can't just say, well,
(25:53):
we don't have the money for that. It's very hard
to say no. So it's not a question of not
having the money. It's a question of making different choice.
And that's really the way to frame it for kids,
and I think that's actually a wonderful way to approach money,
is it's not a question of not having enough. It's
a question that these are the deliberate, thoughtful choices that
we make with our money. It may be simply that
we're going to save it because we want to have
(26:14):
a larger financial cushion. We want to have more money
to invest. It doesn't have to be because we don't
have the money for that. It's because we're choosing not
to buy that one item. And I really advocate for
parents not only using that with their kids, but helping
their kids use that language with their peers, because when
(26:35):
they're teenagers, so much of that push for financial things,
for material things is coming from their peer group, and
if they can learn to manage that peer pressure by
saying I could buy it, but I'm not going to.
For example, I'm going to I'm investing it. I'm buying
in videos them. Right, I'm saying day trading millionaire.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
I don't know exactly.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
So, like you can have your face fancy purse or
whatever they're buying these days, your fancy sneakers, your golden
goose sneakers for six hundred dollars or whatever they're now
going for.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
I'm not into that.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
I'm going to buy one hundred dollars snakers, which is
still a lot of money, and I'm going to take
the five hundred bucks and I'm going to put it
into the QQQ stock mark. I'm not endorsing anything but
into a technology stock index, and let's see how who's
got more stuff at the end of the year.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Whatever it may be.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Right, So give them the language so that not only
you're having those discussions with them, but when it comes
up outside the household, they have the words to support
whatever their decision may be.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Yeah, and now when your kids went off to college,
what was your financial arrangement with them, I mean, apart
from whatever tuition and all that might be, which is
its own discussion, but like in terms of financial support,
was there still or should people think that there should
be ongoing support or I mean, what point does that
(27:58):
kind of evolve.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
I think that's really an individual decision and that can
be influenced by many different factors. Right in my case, honestly,
it was factored very much by my husband, who felt
very strongly that he wanted them to focus exclusively on
their studies and we did not have a huge emphasis
on them quote earning their own money. That said, they
were on a budget, so they did not have a
(28:21):
bottomless pit of money. I think, as I said, that's
a very personal decision. I personally, when I was growing up,
my father had me have jobs in college, and I
think it was really valuable, but it's important that we
not make these decisions in a vacuum.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
If we have a.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Partner or another parent involved, sometimes you have to make
a compromise and do something that you can kind of
both live with. Which is a delicate way of saying
I didn't get my way.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
I think it's really good for kids to have jobs.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Yeah, but that hasn't always happened because again, I'm not
a household of one. It's not a dictatorship. We have
to compromise, and he felt that was the best thing
to do. But I will tell you, these are kids
that we're getting very strong grades, that were doing very
important work in the community. And actually, I correct myself.
During the pandemic, my stepson did actually work from home.
(29:13):
He worked for me, and he worked for a company,
a company that I worked for at the time. They
needed production help because I was suddenly broadcasting from home, yep,
and they hired him and they really did put him
to work, So he did actually have a job. So
I have to correct myself. He did have a job,
and he did invest that money, and again it's doing
very well. He actually has proven to be a very
(29:34):
strong investor. So I'm very proud of how he's putting
that money to use. I think it, like I said,
it's a family discussion, and it's also kids specific, because
what works for you know, I have three kids.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
You have I think five? I do we have five kids?
And are they all the same personality? They are not
in any way the same personality at all, exactly.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
So I think it's really important that we have a
lot of gray years when it comes to kids and people.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
To me as an expert, but you know what you do.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
You your kids are all individuals, and you, guys, you
know in your heart what they need. I think jobs
could be great to provide structure. I think if that's first,
and also of course if there's an economic need for
them to have their own spending money. I think the
best thing is to have a kid have a job
and that's their spending money. And if you can cover
the tuition, that's great. I certainly think the jobs where
(30:22):
you work for your tuition in part you may have
a combination of grants. I think the works I think
it's called the work study. I think those are amazing.
They're great because those jobs are they're like the best jobs.
I was always jealous of the kids that had those
jobs in college, because they have all the fun jobs.
You know. I was fold and closed at a store
that was similar to the gap, but that was my
(30:42):
job in college, was just working in retail.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
I think it really can vary.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
And the important thing is that your kid is aware
of the value of the school you're sending them to.
If you're paying all the tuition, you should show them
the bills. And that is one thing I did, is
I would show them every bill so that they could
see how much it costs. And also I would have
them get the bills and ask for reimbursement for activities.
That way, they're really when they physically see the bill
(31:08):
and they have to ask you for that sorority dues
to be paid back into their account, they're aware of
the cost rather than them just magically being paid. So
it's all about the conversations, and it's also about what
is right for each individual kid and well, and.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
With that, I understand from some things you've written and
said that you are not a big fan of the
idea of people like cutting off kids at an arbitrary age,
that there's not like some point that everyone has to
be fully on their own that you've seen happy families
do different things at different ages. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Absolutely, Look, but I will say candidly that the book
Launching Financial grown Ups is written in theory for parents
and grandparents and adults who love them. Ages sixteen to
twenty six is the range, and there is a reason
for that.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
I when the health insurance goes away, right, twenty six, Yeah,
well that's exactly that, right. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
I'd written it before the affordable character, it probably would
have been twenty two, twenty three, yeah, right, But I
do think that that is our society kind of has
extended adolescence into the twenties at this point from a
financial standpoint, where they do create this financial tie that
makes sense if it doesn't cost me more money to
put the twenty four year old on our health insurance,
which happens to be the case right now. Why would
(32:21):
I ever create an artificial bill to prove a point? Yeah,
that's silly. Yeah, And I do talk a lot about
the family ecosystem and never increasing cost to prove a point.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
If you have a kid on your phone.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Bill and they cost fifty bucks a month, but to
have them on their own be one hundred bucks a month,
keep them on your phone bill. They can pay you
back on set up an autopay where they're hitting you
with a fifty bucks a month, they could reimburse you.
But by all means, don't create artificial bills.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
That's just silly. So funny story with that. I mean,
I came of age before cell phones, right, so I
was always had my own plan. My little brother, who
is a number of years younger than me, obviously grew
up with a cell phone in his high school then,
so he was on my parents' plan forever, right like
into his thirties and so on. At some point in
(33:09):
his thirties he's like, okay, this is enough, so he
got a family plan and put my parents on it.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Now.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
I love that, so they can be on his plan
now forever.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
But that's genius, because the point is, if it's going
to be cheaper for the family ecosystem, do it right.
If Netflix is allowing you five logins at any.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Household, I don't know that.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
I haven't looked recently how they phrase it, but if
I don't want to advocate anyone breaking the law, but
by all means, share subscriptions. If there's a family plan
that makes sense for you, and you don't have to
nickel and dime your kids if it's if you're already
paying and it's unlimited. You know it's up to six
people in your family, Well, you don't fit in there, but.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
You know, so my kid is going to be on
his own for his own Netflix. I don't know what
it is. We'll see who's the highest turner, right, But I.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Told the kids I was paying for Spotify. I think
the plan is up to six users. I said, you
could be on my Spotify free, no problem, because it's
not costing me anything more the phone plan. If the
phone costs me fifty dollars more, you're paying me back
the fifty dollars, right, so that they're aware of it.
If they choose to not use Spotify and they want
to use another one, you're not.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Paying for it. You're are with the competit on your own.
But it just makes sense.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
But as to the you know, the cutoff age, it's
not about a one time cut off.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
It's really about.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Creating an exit strategy, and that is something there's a
whole chapter in the book called the exit strategy. You
don't want it to go on indefinitely, and it's not
about a magical age.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
But let's say they.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Do something for a few years and then they go
to a graduate school, and again something makes sense to
share some expense in some way, like for them to
live at home. Well, let them live at home. I
got divorced very young. I'm now remarried, but I left
at home for a year. I didn't even need It
wasn't financial.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
I need to be with my parents.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
I was in a life change that I needed to
be just with my parents. So I think it's really
important that we not judge and we not have these
absolute rules that different gener can't live together at different
stages in life. Conversely, you might have something where you
might be living with your parents because they.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Need your help.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Maybe you have aging parents and it's not about your
financial dependence or money at all. So I love the
idea of generational household. I think that that can be
a blessing in the right phase.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Yeah, well, just the idea of having close relationships with
your adult children. As this evolves, as adolescence does take longer.
I mean there was a time when I mean my
parents got married at age twenty one, so of course
they're off launched on their own very young, but that's
just not something people really do so much anymore. And
so having those extra years where people are building their
(35:42):
lives and you can still be a part of it
as a parent, it is kind of a cool concept.
So I think it's a really cool concept.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
And I think that you could have a whole different
discussion with someone who is a different level of expertise
whether these are good trends or not that people are
getting married later and forming households later. But when you
look back, was it the best thing that a lot
of women were dropping out of college because they got
married and then they never had that economic independence so
that they would have it later in life when inevitably
(36:09):
many women do need it through divorce or being widowed
or whatever it may be. And was it so good
for a twenty yeue year old man to suddenly have
no time to sort of evolve their career where there
suddenly have to be the breadwinner and it's all on
them because the women couldn't work. It's a whole separate discussion,
But I'm not sure these are bad trends that we're
doing these things later and letting people breathe a little
(36:31):
bit first, And one question you put.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
And this is something that I think is not an
automatic thought for maybe women, that you need to that
it's good to have the thought though, that what does
it cost to be me? And that I am responsible
for that? Right, yeah, because that is not historically been
that whatever it costs to be you? Raising X number
(36:55):
of kids is something that you are personally responsible for.
And obviously, you know there are lots of different ways
families are structured, and we're big fans of stay at
home parents here at best of both worlds too. But
it's good to at least go into it thinking about
what resources are going to be necessary and whether you
have the option of creating those resources on your own,
should you need to.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Yeah, And I should say I've had a very hybrid
work experience, and I have talked about this. Most of
the reason that I left being a full time journalist
was because I did want to be home more with
my kids.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
It's so funny.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
I look at my first book and I write it,
you know, my seven year old is sleeping, and I'm like,
oh my goodness, I was so young.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
He was such a baby. He's said all you know,
now that is oh gosh.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
But you know, I just wanted to be home with him.
And you know, that's why I went from being a
full time journalist to being an author, so that I
could have this hybrid life where I could still have
a career. But also it's not always just about getting
the and paying for the childcare. It's also about the
experience of being a parent. I've a friend who's always
reminding me, don't forget it's the journey. It's the journey
(38:00):
getting it done. And I think that's so important, and
I'm so glad that you brought that up. But I
do think that, especially after the pandemic, what's really wonderful
is a lot of stay at home parents, whether their
moms or dads, can have a more of a hybrid
approach to work if they choose to. And that's really
been a gift for me that now I'm talking to
(38:21):
you from my home office versus before the pandemic, even
when I worked for myself, I went into an office
because of just the social pressures and the social norms.
And now my sixteen year old is waiting, and when
we're done, I'm taking him to his tennis lesson Excellent,
It isn't that great?
Speaker 1 (38:36):
And then when I'm done with that.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
I'll come back and I'll be writing my weekly newsletter,
which tends to be bi weekly sometimes because I'm not
as good as your jivement, your.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Time management skills.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
I need to get better at listening to that your
morning podcast, which I love.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
I think it's important. You made a really good point
and a very important point for all of us.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Well excellent. Well, so we always end with a love
of the week. So I can go first, so you
can think of it if you would like. But I'm
going to throw out the concept of reverse ATMs, which
has saved me in a few situations. So the number
of places that have gone cashlests since the pandemic is
kind of startling to me as a person who it
(39:15):
likes cash and also likes to give children cash because
I feel like they can use it and if they
lose it, they haven't lost that much of anything. It's
not a problem. But so many places are cash lists now.
So I've like sent kids to amusement parks on like
youth group trips and they're like, wait, I can't use
my cash. I have to use a card. But most
of these places now have installed machines where they're reverse ATMs.
(39:35):
You put in the cash, get out a card for
that amount, and so then you can use that. So
I think that's kind of a cool technology as well.
I love that.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Yeah, I think that's really smart and it really is
a way of bridging the gap between the sort of
push and pull between because people always ask me, they
frame digital money as such a problem, but it's the reality.
So it's important that we can sort of go between
both worlds. Yeah, there, I made a pun on your podcast.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Exactly, all right, what's your I love of the weak, Bobby.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
So my son just came back. I have a sixteen
year old who goes to boarding school. He's in tenth grade,
and he just came home for spring break a couple
of days ago. And what's interesting is with teenagers, this
could happen. I'm sure if your kid's home full time
as well, but it seems like they're changing. All kids
are changing constantly, but you get it in chunks when
they come home from boarding school. And so he just
(40:22):
came home and I haven't seen him in person. Well
I saw him in person in New York a month ago,
but still having these full conversations with him he's like
this many adult. He changes and he's suddenly challenging me
on things and his new thing and this is a fun,
interesting thing, so people can try with their teenagers. His
new phase is he is listening to these songs, rock
(40:42):
and roll songs, kind of I don't know. He was
listening to Guns n' Roses and also Hotel California.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
I think that's the Eagles.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
I don't know. I don't even know these songs, but
I kind of know them, but I don't know who
sings all of them. And he's looking at the words
and sort of trying to figure out, well, what is
the true meaning of this song? And apparently, for example,
he told me and people can look this up. I
haven't verified these yet, Hotel California is actually about materialism
and the quest for more and more success in America.
(41:11):
You can check out, but you can never leave. I
guess I have no right. We're constantly striving for more.
That's what he said. But the point is, I'm having
these deep conversations with this manchild, this change who's sixteen,
that I've never had before. He suddenly became this super intellectual,
curious kid who's just like researching all these songs. He's
(41:33):
researching David Bowie songs and I don't want to say
what some of those are about, but I was like, oh, okay,
he's challenging me. It's just so interesting when your kid
changes on you in a fascinating way that you didn't
see coming.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
So that's my love. Well, and I bet he's like
two inches taller than the last time you saw him
as well, so that's always why.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
That happens too, Yes, and the ironies. And we went
to the pediatrician, which he was sort of he felt humiliated.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
I don't know if teenage parents can understand this, because.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
They do have to still go to a pediatrician at
age sixteen. They do, and he wasn't happy about that
because you've got these like toddlers in the office because
it's spring break, so the kids down here are in school,
so there's no other teenager at ten am on a
Monday in the pediatrician's office. But he's there with the
babies that aren't in school yet. But the pediatrician clarified
that they do take kids certainly until eighteen and sometimes
(42:23):
twenty one.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
So anyway, pediatric and adolescent health, Yes, so Bobby let
everyone know where they can find you.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
You can find me at Financial Wellness Strategies dot com
where you can learn more about that business. You can
also buy my book Launching Financial Grownups on Amazon or ideally,
I'll say, at your local bookstore. But if they don't
stock it because it's been out for a year, please
ask them to get it. And the same thing at
libraries libraries. If you don't see it at your local library,
please ask them to stock it at your local library,
(42:52):
because we always do want to support libraries.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Excellent. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Bobby,
We really appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me. Well,
we are back listening to Bobby Rebel talk about launching
Financial Grownups and how we can help young adult children
and teens and tweens figure out how to navigate the
world of money. So this question came to Sarah. I
(43:18):
can read it says, do I have this right that
neither of you use Google Calendar or digital calendars at all?
How do you schedule appointments that go on your paper
planner when you go out? Do you have a different
system for how and do you write down tasks like
call for doctor's appointments and events like Mother's Day brunch, Sarah,
(43:40):
are we writing on cave walls?
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Like?
Speaker 1 (43:43):
How far in the past are we living?
Speaker 2 (43:47):
I know this is kind of funny as you read
the question, I'm like, the question did seem a little incredulous.
I'm like, but in twenty ten, I mean, no one
was carrying around a phone, so either you were using
like a palm pilot or you were whipping out your
lin and then that would have been weird, right, So like, anyway, yes,
I bring my planner with me. I usually have my
hobuonichi cousin everywhere I go. It is honestly just not
(44:10):
that big. I mean I look at the purses and
backpacks most people carry around, and there usually isn't a
space for a planner. I usually carry like a kind
of average sized tope bag. It has my planner, my wallets, sunglasses, keys,
It's about it. But that means if I'm in an appointment,
I can just turn to the day and write it
down right then and there.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Now, if I do happen to.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
Go somewhere and I don't bring it with me for
whatever reason, then I just take my best guess. Like
I know that usually Tuesdays and Thursdays are more flexible,
and then I tell them I may have to call
them a reschedule, and I email it to myself using
my phone right then and there, so then I know
when I'm clearing my inbox, I'll see that appointment be
able to either write it in my planner if it
works out or if it doesn't, be like, uh oh,
(44:51):
I have to call and fix it. But honestly, that
doesn't happen all that often.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Yeah, I often bring my little calendar with me if
I'm in a situation where I think I might need
to schedule something, and sometimes when I'm traveling, I just
take a picture of the next few weeks in the
little calendar. It's a pocket sized at a glance weekly calendar,
and this is separate from my planner. So the calendar
is where I put time specific stuff and that is
(45:16):
for the whole year, so I can schedule stuff out
as far as I need to. I buy the next
year is in like September, so then I have that
to schedule out for the next year for anything. The
planner is where I create my priority lists for an
actual week and create my daily to do list, so
I have two separate things. But because of that, the
calendar is quite tiny and is no bigger than a phone,
(45:38):
so it can go anywhere if I'm worried about losing it.
Like I said, I take pictures of the next few
weeks and then I have that on my phone so
I can consult that if I happen to not have
the paper calendar with me. And yeah, I've taken guesses too.
It for some reason I don't have it and find
I need to make an appointment, I will guess and
then call back if I need to. It's really not
(46:00):
that challenging. I haven't had anyone really look at me
like I am carving on a cave wall. Maybe it
could happen, but I'm okay. It works. It works. If
it works, it works, I mean really in life, if
something works, it works, right, Like this is a blanket
productivity tip. You do not have to change just because
(46:21):
everyone around you has.
Speaker 3 (46:23):
Now.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
I understand that if you're working in a major corporation
you have to use Outlook for your work meetings and
things like that, but you can still have your own
calendar that's separate, I mean, or you can, you know,
if you know roughly what your work hours are. You
can have those and then schedule things outside of it
on your own paper calendar if you want to, or
you can have one digital calendar that's like Google and
you import your stuff from work and so you can
(46:44):
see it there. You can put your own stuff on
Google and then nobody needs to know about it at work,
but you have one source of truth as well, so
lots of different options. Figure out what works for you
and then stick with it, right. I think it's the
changing that can can make people lose stuff. Well, what's
been best of Both worlds? Talking about launching Financial Grownups
with Bobby Rebel. We will be back next week with
(47:05):
more on making work and life fit together. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com
or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This
has been the best of Both Worlds podcasts. Please join
us next time for more on making work and life
work together.
Hi. I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
and speaker.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician,
writer and course creator. We are two working parents who
love our careers and our families.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.
From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals.
We want you to get the most out of life.
Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This
episode is airing in mid April of twenty twenty four.
(00:48):
We are just around tax Day in the United States,
so appropriately we are having a financial themed episode. I'm
going to be interviewing Bobby Rebel, who is the author
of lawng Financial Grown Ups. She also has a company
that is organized around the same concept of how you
can help young adults begin their financial lives preparing for
(01:11):
the grown up world of money and all the things
they will need to know for that. So, especially for
our listeners who have tweens and teens, some topics that
definitely might be worth thinking about as you ponder how
to help your kids build their own independent lives. So,
speaking of being a financial grown up, Sarah, at what
(01:31):
point were you actually a financial grown up? If we
are at this point, I guess we are. We both
have mortgages. That's like, yeah, right there, yes, you are
growing up a mortgage.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
But I definitely feel like I was a much later
bloomer to financial adulthood than you.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
As you're going to share.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Your story in college, I would classify myself as fairly
irresponsible before that, also fairly irresponsible if I had any
money lying around, and I always enjoyed earning some money,
but I also enjoyed spending some money, so so it
didn't stick around for very long. And then I did
take a trip to Europe in which I put everything
(02:08):
on my credit card and had to be bailed out
by my parents. Okay, like full disclosure, it was a
very inexpensive trip, like we were staying in hostels. I
don't think the grand total was anything all that crazy,
but my parents did kindly bail me out but told
me they would never ever ever do that again, so
that I better grow up from here on out. And
you know what I did, I did, I really did,
(02:29):
because then I was an MDPHD and I lived on
a like eighteen thousand dollars a year salary, and I
was like, Okay, this is all I have and I
can't go in the negative because I have to pay
my rent every month. And I actually ended up moving
in with Josh after we started dating, but I paid
portion of the mortgage for the house that he had, so, like,
(02:49):
I think I became a grown up at that point.
I was not good about saving, but at least I
understood how, I mean, how much can you say when
you're earning eighteen thousand dollars a year? Maybe Laura could,
but I couldn't. But at least that was good about
not allowing myself to go into the red and understanding
what a budget was. And then I feel like my
first couple of years of earning a real salary, I
(03:11):
was just sort of like, I don't know, figuring things out.
It seemed to me from the outset like the money
was going to be infinite, and became very quickly clear
that it wasn't. And so in twenty fifteen we discovered
you need a budget and became really systematic about saving.
And I feel like that is actually when I became
a financial grown up Wow, thirty five, twenty fifteen, not
(03:31):
that long ago.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
So wait, I got a pun. So Josh owned a
house in med school.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
It was a very inexpensive house. He had worked prior
to that, so he was.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Right because he started it older. That's right, Okay, Yeah,
and I think there was some help there as well.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
That house was bought for something like one hundred and
thirty thousand dollars and then sold for like one hundred
and thirty thousand dollars, So it was not like it
was not a fancy house.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Was he renting out other rooms of it? Was it
like that kind of thing? Or no?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
No, no, I mean how much can you spit up
a house that's that size? And the neighborhood quickly didn't
do so well, hence us selling it. Actually, we may
have sold it for under what we bought it for,
which is kind of what we do in our in
our family.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yeah, real estate history. Fortunately, there are booms and bus
in the younger household seems to uh there moves. Unfortunately,
you can't always time these things to being convenient for
the real estate market. I've started thinking back, like I
went away for high school for my last two years,
and so I had to have some way of paying
for things. I actually had my own check book. I
(04:35):
remember checkbooks for like it was, which I remember then
because I wanted to get my college decision letters at
my mailing address at school, and so I had written
the checks for the application fees. I think my parents
would put money in the account for that, but it's
kind of funny to think. I wonder how many kids
are signing their own checks to pay for their application
(04:56):
fees for college. It's probably not that many. But yeah,
my first you know, I worked in the summers in college.
I got my first apartment for a summer we could
do a temporary rental thing. I shared with a couple
of people in Washington, d c. My so, I, you know,
had apartment in nineteen I learned to cook. That was
kind of fun. And then my first job after college,
I had this year long internship at USA Today where
(05:19):
my stipend for the year was something like eighteen thousand,
and you know, I really my take home pay was
like twelve hundred dollars a month, and I remember my
rent was five hundred and eighty dollars, so you know,
you had six hundred twenty bucks to play around with
each month, and it was mostly fine. I didn't have
a car, I was taking public transit and shopped sales
at the grocery store and cooked most of my own
meals and also created margin by freelancing, you know, I
(05:44):
sort of the more I think about it, if I
had really truly tried to live on just that, it
would have been a lot tighter. But then I was like, well,
I can write for places people are willing to pay me.
And the good news about having a take home pay
of twelve hundred dollars a month is that even if
you're getting like three hundred dollars for something, it feels
like a pretty big raise. So that was, you know,
I was able to save most of that, which helped,
(06:05):
you know, finance the move to New York City after that.
But yeah, I mean I remember reading like the newspaper
when I was twelve or thirteen years old, waiting for
the bus and looking at the stocks and being interested
in the stock market at the time. And now it
would have been great if I'd actually invested then, But
of course that's not something my parents knew much about
at all. And the upside is that we are now
(06:26):
having our kids do that. They get a brokerage account
when they are ten, we do a match of money
that they have saved up. It's a fairly sizable match
multiple of what they have saved up so that we
can meet the brokerage minimum. Then they choose what they're
going to invest in. And I'm not sure if everyone's
(06:46):
learning the right lessons from this. Like one child didn't
want to invest in anything because there was a possibility
of losing money, which I don't think is the right
lesson to learn. Another child was kind of getting into
the day trade idea and be like, look, I made
fifty bucks today without doing anything. I'm like, oh no,
that's maybe not the right lesson either. But you know,
(07:07):
you're young, you don't have to buy index funds. I
don't know. It's probably good they're learning it now whatever
they can be financial grown ups. Even earlier, it turns
out that Disney was not a great stock to own,
even if you love Disney, they was, for a long
period of time, really crappy stuff tooon.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I kind of feel like, if you let that experiment
go on long enough, if there was one of the
five kids that chose index funds, they're probably going to
win and then they will all learn a good lesson.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yeah, and the one child is, you know, still in
the whatever the brokerage random interest rate is because they
refused to people's personalities come out very young. All right, Well,
let's hear what Bobby has to say about Launching Financial
Grown Ups. So Sarah and I are delighted to welcome
(07:51):
Bobby Rebel to the program. She is a journalist turned
author turned financial wellness consultant. Is the author of the
book Launching Finance Grown Ups, which I know is relevant
to a lot of people with kids in the teen
emerging adult years. So welcome Bobby. Thank you so much
for having me.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
I am a listener and a big fan of the podcast.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Thank you so much. Well, why don't you introduce a
little bit more about yourself to our listeners.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Well, first of all, again, thank you for having me,
and thank you for that introduction. I am a mom
of three in a blended family. I have now a
twenty seven year old, a twenty four year old, and
a sixteen year old. The twenty seven year old is
I sort of already launched, and the twenty four year
old is in the middle of launching. I would say
he's out of college, had his first job, and now
(08:41):
figuring out a pivot, and then the teenager is on
the crux of getting ready to start thinking about college.
He took his first practice Act recently. So I'm sort
of mixed feelings because in a way, I'm sort of
happy to be in the home stretch of it, but
also it's hitting me hard as a parent that, wow,
this phase of my life is really about to start changing,
(09:04):
and so I'm sort of bracing for that. And career wise,
I'm going through some changes as well, expanding my business
beyond being an author into more financial wellness consulting.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
I have a company called Financial Wellness Strategies.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
We do workshops for companies, for schools, for parent groups,
and I'm now expanding into doing some limited private consulting.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Awesome, Well, let's talk a little bit about your journey
of launching at least two financial grownups at this point
a third, we hope in a couple of years. Was
it a smooth flying path. Was it bumpy? Maybe you
could talk a little bit about that. It was so bumpy, Laura.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
It was really tragic because, as we mentioned, I had
been a journalist for many years and I was in
the business beat, so I interviewed CEOs and talked about money.
I even at one point had a globally syndicated column
on personal finance topics.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
And yet my almost adult children.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
And I'm referencing the older ones at this point were
one was just starting college, when was in high school,
and they were not really receptive to my mini lessons
about money, and I found it very frustrating. And one
thing that I write about in the book Launching Financial
Grown Ups is my efforts, for example, to get them
to open up wrath iras.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
So I had kids that were good kids.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
They both were earning money because they liked to earn money,
and which is great. Ashley was always learning to be
higher and higher level as a lifeguard. She was very
good at teaching, and so she was keenly aware that
if she got different certifications she could make more money.
And number two, Bradley was very enterprising teaching kids fencing.
He eventually went to school basically recruited for fencing.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
You're very good at that.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
So these were good, ambitious kids doing their thing, and
yet I couldn't get them to open up a wroth Ira.
Why I was like, you guys have all this money,
they weren't big spenders, and they would always yes me,
and I kind of had to figure out, Okay, what
is going on? And so that inspired the book because
you had an educated parent, you had kids that were
sort of on a good bath path.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
These weren't problem kids.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
And so I figured, well, I know, one thing I've
accessed to as a journalist is experts, Right, I could
tune in and ask people. I had financial therapy friends,
I had parenting expert friends, and I of course had
money expert friends. And so the book really taps into that.
I figured I had a problem. Maybe other people did too,
And I think that was proven pretty true because the
book has really resonated with a lot of parents, and
(11:28):
I should say grandparents.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yeah, well, I mean, what was it. Let's talk about
the roth Ira, because I mean, was it just that
it's annoying to call customer service somewhere, It's annoying to
find documents. I mean, what would you say it was?
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Yeah, So for the older one, she was just yesing me,
and like I would always first of all, approach them
at absolutely the wrong time.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
I learned, you know, they're walking out the door.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
It's it's been anything you want a kid to do,
especially a teenager, if you're interrupting something that they are
just they're going to say what they want to say.
So they would say I'm on it. They wouldn't say
I'm doing it. They would say I heard you, I know,
I understand, but they wouldn't say I'm doing it. And
I would give them, as you said, I would give
them the name of somebody at the brokerage firm that
I used to said. You can talk to a human,
(12:09):
you can go online, you can open up with a
different company. I don't care what you do. What do
you need to get this done? And the oldest one
looked at me and she said, but you didn't ask
me about my goals and what I want to do
with the money. Well, what she wanted to do with
the money, Laura, was she wanted to save it to
buy an apartment a down payment, and if she put
it in an investment account, then she'd be risking it,
(12:31):
and since you know, you're supposed to have a.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Five year time horizon, that was not the right thing
for her to do. Right. Yeah, So she didn't want to.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Have a conflict with me, But in fact, I was
giving her the wrong advice because I hadn't asked her
her goal.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah, now that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Yeah, yeah, so I wasn't listening to her. Actually I
wasn't listening because I wasn't even asking her, yeah, whether
it made sense for her.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
And then number two was more of a classic thing.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
He was just a teen who just wasn't getting around
to it, and I needed to actually sit with him.
And what I've done with him that's worked so well
and I'm so proud of him, is generally when there's
something to do, I kind of sit side by side.
And this is something Julie Lythcott Haynes who wrote How
to Raise an Adult Advocate, So I got this from her.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
I just want to give her credit.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
You sit with them at the computer, and the first
time you sort of show them what to do, the
second time you watch them do it. You know what
I mean. It's a gradual progression. And I really had
to sit down with him and set it up. And
I'll tell you right now, he has a very nice
amount of money in that roth Ira and to the
point where he was able to fully fund it and
then also open a non retirement Brokeridge account and so
(13:38):
because he didn't have the goal to buy an apartment.
He has done very well over the years with his investing,
and we have conversations about investing.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
He was very critical.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
And I don't know when this is going to come out,
but right now, in Video is in the news, and
he wanted to know why I hadn't bought in Video
and we had a whole conversation, and he told me
about his friends that were day trading on how much
his friends made one in Vidia. Point is we're having
the conversations. It doesn't actually matter what I did or
didn't do an investing. The point is he's asking questions,
we're having conversations, and he's learning to make his own decisions.
(14:09):
He did go and buy Nvidio. I personally thought it
was overvalued. Today as of this recording, he's up.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
YEP could be down in another week or two. Whoever knows.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Yes, it's but the moody is real, real, and he's
investing it. And I don't want to say it doesn't
matter what he does. I mean, if he comes to
me and says an investment that I don't think is good,
I'll tell him why I don't think it's good. But
I also tell him I could be wrong. I also
don't own any bitcoin, and right now I don't look
so smart, but I don't know. But you have to
(14:43):
let your kids make those mistakes. Investing the important thing,
and they have so much time, Laura, Yeah, I mean,
I don't want to see.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Summer many many years for things to recover.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Even he says his friends are day trading, you can
say to a kid, well, I don't think that's the
way to go, but if you think that's something interesting,
why don't you take ten percent of your savings and
you can day trade with that if that's what they want.
Because what you really don't want to do, especially with teenagers,
is create an environment where they feel you will judge
them and therefore they will hide a mistake. So an
(15:15):
example of that would be maybe they ran up credit
card debt and they don't tell you because they know
you would be disappointed. They know they should know better.
You don't want them to run up the credit card debt,
But the only thing worse than that is to hide
it from you and not be able to have that conversation.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
So what does it mean to be a financial grown up?
I mean, I've spondered this, I wonder if I am
a financial grown up at this point, many years along
from the teenage years, But what would you define as
being a financial grown up? I think it's.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Important that everyone have their own definition to some degree,
but essentially it's taking responsibility and ownership of your financial life.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
What that means.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
So with kids, I like to tell them kids, I'm
talking about teenagers in early twenties, I want to see
the numbers.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
What does it cost to be you? What does a cost?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
As the middle child this recently, what would have cost
to you if you were to do X, Y and z.
Because he's figuring out career plans. Can your career plan
support what you want? The lifestyle that you want? And
you have to find a balance, right, If you want
to live a very modest lifestyle, you can choose a
career that supports that. And so it's really important for
them to understand the math of their own life.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
And then we have to.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Take a step back because sometimes we impose on them
our own values and our own priorities when it comes
to the lifestyle that we want to live, and we
over subsidize them. In other words, they'll say, I want
to do this, and I'm willing to live this way,
and I'm willing to have three roommates because I want
to go do this career that's very risky and I
won't have enough money. We have to be careful not
(16:46):
to interfere with that. We have to let it play out.
And it is really hard. It's something that I struggle
with to this day because we want to make their
life easier, especially if we struggled. We relate to that,
and it's sometimes harder. The more resources you have to
teach a kid to be a financial grown up, it's hard.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Well do you think it's in general harder than in
the past? And I know, I know there's been a
lot of headlines about between levels of student loans or
the price of housing in certain markets, although obviously it
sounds like your daughter did in fact manage to purchase
a home, so she's, you know, the millennial gen z
whatever is that has managed to become a property owner.
But do you think, I mean, is it harder or
(17:27):
is it not? I mean, what did you say.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I do think that there are some systemic societal changes
that have happened, but I also think the lens that
we see things through has changed, and I think it's
very interesting to observe as a society that very often
we will frame it, for example, as a negative when
someone moves home after college or stays home after high
school if they're not going to college.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
And I view it.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
In most cases as a positive because I think it's
unrealistic to stay to someone. Okay, you just graduated college,
possible with debt too. You're getting your first job, hopefully
your lowest paying job.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Ever.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
You may or may not have health insurance and other
benefits because the gig economy has grown so much, and
because we now have the Affordable Care Act and so
a lot of companies can sort of get away with
not giving health insurance until kids are twenty six. So
is it even realistic to set a kit up for
failure to go out and suddenly be their own household? Like?
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Why is that considered the norm? Why isn't the norm?
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Hey, if it's available, to go home, regroup, create a
financial foundation, as our oldest did, right she stayed home
for two years. I discussed this in the book in
more detail, but basically, in launching Financial Grown Ups, I
explain how she moved home with a very specific plan.
She wasn't a slacker like we used to call gen
xers when we moved home. She was very much proactively
(18:51):
saving to have not only the money for a down payment,
to have the money for the closing costs, to make
sure her credit score was high enough that she could
get a good mortgage and make sure she had the
emergency backup fund so she wouldn't have to ask us
for money, knowing that we would be there if she
did need it. I think it's really important for parents
to not say we're not there for you. Let the
kid know we're there for you, but we expect you
(19:13):
won't need it. We hope you won't need it, but
of course we're going to be there for you. I
think that should be the norm. Let kids come home,
because how else are they going to build an emergency fund.
If they're living paycheck to paycheck and they're struggling to
pay down student debt, which we know mathematically is higher
than it was in past generations, it's not realistic for
us to just kind of throw them out there to
the wolves. And I also think, and we learned this
(19:35):
in COVID, that there's a very special relationship when adult
kids can live at home for a defined period of time,
with a plan, with an exit strategy. I'm not saying indefinitely,
because they do have to grow up, but it's kind
of nice to have that relationship evolve and for them
to see you. With the launch of this book, I
(19:55):
finally learned some of the ups and downs that my
parents had had financially that I had no idea and
it took until now for it to come out, prompted
by the book. But my parents, I think, to some degree,
overshielded me because I never understood that maybe it wasn't
so easy to write that check for something going on.
I was oblivious as a child. Let them in the
amount you feel comfortable. I'm not saying open it all
(20:18):
up if it's not appropriate, but sometimes sharing with them
that you're just not a bottomless pit of money to
support whatever activity they want can be really valuable.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
And also just empathetic.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
If they understand that you didn't always have it so easy,
and you struggled, and maybe you had career insecurities or
whatever it may be, that really opens up a new
chapter in your relationship that can be so wonderful, awesome.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
All right, well, we're going to take a quick ad break.
We'll be back with more from Bobbie Ravel about launching
financial gurn Ups. Well, we are back talking with Bobby
(21:03):
Rebel about how we can launch Financial grown Up, since
she's been talking about how moving back home is not
necessarily a sign of failure, that it can be a
way to build wealth in the early years when your
earnings might be low, and then you have that possibility.
But let's back up a few more years. Let's talk
teen years. Okay, So we have a lot of listeners
(21:26):
who have kids in the tween and teen ages and
they're saying, well, I'd like to have good financial conversations
with my kids. What are some ways we can open
up that topic and some good ideas for how to
teach kids a little bit more about how they might
handle money before they're actually going out on their own.
Oh my gosh, I love this question.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
And the answer to your question is to ask questions,
ask them, ask them what matters to them, and ask
them how they feel about certain things. Right, and look
for openings in whatever is going on in your daily life.
So you might just put them in charge, for example,
of the groceries one week, even if you're paying for it,
ask them to figure out how to make a budget work,
(22:09):
or think about ways to get them I guess to
kind of extract what their goals are and what they're
doing to get to those goals. So, for example, thinking
about the kind of lifestyle that they want to lead,
what's important to them? Do they want to live in
a city, Well, what career choices would make sense for that?
Or what are you interested in? Hey, what does that pay?
(22:30):
Because now we have so much salary information available online,
they can go through, well what does it cost to
be me? And what is the cost it? Does the
math work if I want this career?
Speaker 1 (22:40):
And so for.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Example, I'm giving a lot of my own examples here.
With our oldest she had wanted to be a teacher.
She was constantly getting higher and higher certifications with their lifeguards.
She was amazing with kids, a great camp counselor.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
But she did the math what does it cost to
be me?
Speaker 3 (22:55):
In New York City where she wanted to live and
to be comfortable and be able to go out with
her friends. And she ended up switching majors in college
because she wanted more income, And I think that's fine.
She found something that she also loved, and she's a
cybersecurity consultant now and pays better than teaching, and it's
(23:15):
also fulfilling. And that doesn't mean that some days she
won't teach. It doesn't mean maybe she won't teach a
course on cybersecurity at a local college, right, So you
can do that. But sometimes what you love doesn't have
to be what you do for money, and I think
that's an important lesson for teenagers. It's also important for
parents to realize the way that they're communicating with their
children and the subtle messages that they send can really
(23:36):
have an impact. There's a theory called your money scripts.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Have you heard of this? I've heard that we certainly
have stories about money and our heads from our backgrounds.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
So the term money script actually comes from a financial
therapist who's also a CFP named Brad Klants, and so
people can google that and learn more about it. But
he basically talks about the fact that we have unconscious
beliefs about money that stem from our childhood. So I
say this because I want parents to be very mindful
that it's not only what you directly communicate to children
(24:06):
and teens, it's what they're observing and basically your household
culture when it comes to money and the unwritten and
unsaid things that you say.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
So maybe you.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Get a bill and you are discussing it with your
partner and they overhear it, or they hear the stress
in your voice, or they hear the excitement in your
voice when something good happens in your career or something
like that. Just be aware that they're understanding more than
you might realize, and that the unconscious messages that you're
sending to them that are shaping the way that they
(24:39):
view money. And I think that's really important for parents also,
especially with teenagers.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, and I mean with that though, I think a
question probably at least some number of our listeners may
have is maybe they didn't grow up with as much
resources as they now have. So whatever script they absorbed
from their growing up, I mean, there just wasn't as
much money around, which means that there are harder choices
to make all the time. Or if their parents said
(25:04):
we can't afford something, they actually believed it. So when
they are growing up though, with more resources which children
can pick up on. You know, they can google your
address and see what you paid for your house, right,
I mean, there's just the level of transparency is there
in a way that I think was not necessarily in
the past. How can you sort of direct those scripts
(25:26):
to recognizing that you still do have to make smart choices.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
I love this question and it comes up all the time.
It's probably one of the most common questions that I get.
There was a trend recently on TikTok called loud budgeting,
and I wish I had been so clever to come
up with this term. I call it peer positive peer pressure.
Because kids see so much, whether it's on social media
or just among their friends about different things and wanting
to kind of keep up. You can't just say, well,
(25:53):
we don't have the money for that. It's very hard
to say no. So it's not a question of not
having the money. It's a question of making different choice.
And that's really the way to frame it for kids,
and I think that's actually a wonderful way to approach money,
is it's not a question of not having enough. It's
a question that these are the deliberate, thoughtful choices that
we make with our money. It may be simply that
we're going to save it because we want to have
(26:14):
a larger financial cushion. We want to have more money
to invest. It doesn't have to be because we don't
have the money for that. It's because we're choosing not
to buy that one item. And I really advocate for
parents not only using that with their kids, but helping
their kids use that language with their peers, because when
(26:35):
they're teenagers, so much of that push for financial things,
for material things is coming from their peer group, and
if they can learn to manage that peer pressure by
saying I could buy it, but I'm not going to.
For example, I'm going to I'm investing it. I'm buying
in videos them. Right, I'm saying day trading millionaire.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
I don't know exactly.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
So, like you can have your face fancy purse or
whatever they're buying these days, your fancy sneakers, your golden
goose sneakers for six hundred dollars or whatever they're now
going for.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
I'm not into that.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
I'm going to buy one hundred dollars snakers, which is
still a lot of money, and I'm going to take
the five hundred bucks and I'm going to put it
into the QQQ stock mark. I'm not endorsing anything but
into a technology stock index, and let's see how who's
got more stuff at the end of the year.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Whatever it may be.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Right, So give them the language so that not only
you're having those discussions with them, but when it comes
up outside the household, they have the words to support
whatever their decision may be.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Yeah, and now when your kids went off to college,
what was your financial arrangement with them, I mean, apart
from whatever tuition and all that might be, which is
its own discussion, but like in terms of financial support,
was there still or should people think that there should
be ongoing support or I mean, what point does that
(27:58):
kind of evolve.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
I think that's really an individual decision and that can
be influenced by many different factors. Right in my case, honestly,
it was factored very much by my husband, who felt
very strongly that he wanted them to focus exclusively on
their studies and we did not have a huge emphasis
on them quote earning their own money. That said, they
were on a budget, so they did not have a
(28:21):
bottomless pit of money. I think, as I said, that's
a very personal decision. I personally, when I was growing up,
my father had me have jobs in college, and I
think it was really valuable, but it's important that we
not make these decisions in a vacuum.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
If we have a.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Partner or another parent involved, sometimes you have to make
a compromise and do something that you can kind of
both live with. Which is a delicate way of saying
I didn't get my way.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
I think it's really good for kids to have jobs.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Yeah, but that hasn't always happened because again, I'm not
a household of one. It's not a dictatorship. We have
to compromise, and he felt that was the best thing
to do. But I will tell you, these are kids
that we're getting very strong grades, that were doing very
important work in the community. And actually, I correct myself.
During the pandemic, my stepson did actually work from home.
(29:13):
He worked for me, and he worked for a company,
a company that I worked for at the time. They
needed production help because I was suddenly broadcasting from home, yep,
and they hired him and they really did put him
to work, So he did actually have a job. So
I have to correct myself. He did have a job,
and he did invest that money, and again it's doing
very well. He actually has proven to be a very
(29:34):
strong investor. So I'm very proud of how he's putting
that money to use. I think it, like I said,
it's a family discussion, and it's also kids specific, because
what works for you know, I have three kids.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
You have I think five? I do we have five kids?
And are they all the same personality? They are not
in any way the same personality at all, exactly.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
So I think it's really important that we have a
lot of gray years when it comes to kids and people.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
To me as an expert, but you know what you do.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
You your kids are all individuals, and you, guys, you
know in your heart what they need. I think jobs
could be great to provide structure. I think if that's first,
and also of course if there's an economic need for
them to have their own spending money. I think the
best thing is to have a kid have a job
and that's their spending money. And if you can cover
the tuition, that's great. I certainly think the jobs where
(30:22):
you work for your tuition in part you may have
a combination of grants. I think the works I think
it's called the work study. I think those are amazing.
They're great because those jobs are they're like the best jobs.
I was always jealous of the kids that had those
jobs in college, because they have all the fun jobs.
You know. I was fold and closed at a store
that was similar to the gap, but that was my
(30:42):
job in college, was just working in retail.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
I think it really can vary.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
And the important thing is that your kid is aware
of the value of the school you're sending them to.
If you're paying all the tuition, you should show them
the bills. And that is one thing I did, is
I would show them every bill so that they could
see how much it costs. And also I would have
them get the bills and ask for reimbursement for activities.
That way, they're really when they physically see the bill
(31:08):
and they have to ask you for that sorority dues
to be paid back into their account, they're aware of
the cost rather than them just magically being paid. So
it's all about the conversations, and it's also about what
is right for each individual kid and well, and.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
With that, I understand from some things you've written and
said that you are not a big fan of the
idea of people like cutting off kids at an arbitrary age,
that there's not like some point that everyone has to
be fully on their own that you've seen happy families
do different things at different ages. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Absolutely, Look, but I will say candidly that the book
Launching Financial grown Ups is written in theory for parents
and grandparents and adults who love them. Ages sixteen to
twenty six is the range, and there is a reason
for that.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
I when the health insurance goes away, right, twenty six, Yeah,
well that's exactly that, right. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
I'd written it before the affordable character, it probably would
have been twenty two, twenty three, yeah, right, But I
do think that that is our society kind of has
extended adolescence into the twenties at this point from a
financial standpoint, where they do create this financial tie that
makes sense if it doesn't cost me more money to
put the twenty four year old on our health insurance,
which happens to be the case right now. Why would
(32:21):
I ever create an artificial bill to prove a point? Yeah,
that's silly. Yeah, And I do talk a lot about
the family ecosystem and never increasing cost to prove a point.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
If you have a kid on your phone.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Bill and they cost fifty bucks a month, but to
have them on their own be one hundred bucks a month,
keep them on your phone bill. They can pay you
back on set up an autopay where they're hitting you
with a fifty bucks a month, they could reimburse you.
But by all means, don't create artificial bills.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
That's just silly. So funny story with that. I mean,
I came of age before cell phones, right, so I
was always had my own plan. My little brother, who
is a number of years younger than me, obviously grew
up with a cell phone in his high school then,
so he was on my parents' plan forever, right like
into his thirties and so on. At some point in
(33:09):
his thirties he's like, okay, this is enough, so he
got a family plan and put my parents on it.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Now.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
I love that, so they can be on his plan
now forever.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
But that's genius, because the point is, if it's going
to be cheaper for the family ecosystem, do it right.
If Netflix is allowing you five logins at any.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Household, I don't know that.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
I haven't looked recently how they phrase it, but if
I don't want to advocate anyone breaking the law, but
by all means, share subscriptions. If there's a family plan
that makes sense for you, and you don't have to
nickel and dime your kids if it's if you're already
paying and it's unlimited. You know it's up to six
people in your family, Well, you don't fit in there, but.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
You know, so my kid is going to be on
his own for his own Netflix. I don't know what
it is. We'll see who's the highest turner, right, But I.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Told the kids I was paying for Spotify. I think
the plan is up to six users. I said, you
could be on my Spotify free, no problem, because it's
not costing me anything more the phone plan. If the
phone costs me fifty dollars more, you're paying me back
the fifty dollars, right, so that they're aware of it.
If they choose to not use Spotify and they want
to use another one, you're not.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Paying for it. You're are with the competit on your own.
But it just makes sense.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
But as to the you know, the cutoff age, it's
not about a one time cut off.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
It's really about.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Creating an exit strategy, and that is something there's a
whole chapter in the book called the exit strategy. You
don't want it to go on indefinitely, and it's not
about a magical age.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
But let's say they.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Do something for a few years and then they go
to a graduate school, and again something makes sense to
share some expense in some way, like for them to
live at home. Well, let them live at home. I
got divorced very young. I'm now remarried, but I left
at home for a year. I didn't even need It
wasn't financial.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
I need to be with my parents.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
I was in a life change that I needed to
be just with my parents. So I think it's really
important that we not judge and we not have these
absolute rules that different gener can't live together at different
stages in life. Conversely, you might have something where you
might be living with your parents because they.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Need your help.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Maybe you have aging parents and it's not about your
financial dependence or money at all. So I love the
idea of generational household. I think that that can be
a blessing in the right phase.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Yeah, well, just the idea of having close relationships with
your adult children. As this evolves, as adolescence does take longer.
I mean there was a time when I mean my
parents got married at age twenty one, so of course
they're off launched on their own very young, but that's
just not something people really do so much anymore. And
so having those extra years where people are building their
(35:42):
lives and you can still be a part of it
as a parent, it is kind of a cool concept.
So I think it's a really cool concept.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
And I think that you could have a whole different
discussion with someone who is a different level of expertise
whether these are good trends or not that people are
getting married later and forming households later. But when you
look back, was it the best thing that a lot
of women were dropping out of college because they got
married and then they never had that economic independence so
that they would have it later in life when inevitably
(36:09):
many women do need it through divorce or being widowed
or whatever it may be. And was it so good
for a twenty yeue year old man to suddenly have
no time to sort of evolve their career where there
suddenly have to be the breadwinner and it's all on
them because the women couldn't work. It's a whole separate discussion,
But I'm not sure these are bad trends that we're
doing these things later and letting people breathe a little
(36:31):
bit first, And one question you put.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
And this is something that I think is not an
automatic thought for maybe women, that you need to that
it's good to have the thought though, that what does
it cost to be me? And that I am responsible
for that? Right, yeah, because that is not historically been
that whatever it costs to be you? Raising X number
(36:55):
of kids is something that you are personally responsible for.
And obviously, you know there are lots of different ways
families are structured, and we're big fans of stay at
home parents here at best of both worlds too. But
it's good to at least go into it thinking about
what resources are going to be necessary and whether you
have the option of creating those resources on your own,
should you need to.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Yeah, And I should say I've had a very hybrid
work experience, and I have talked about this. Most of
the reason that I left being a full time journalist
was because I did want to be home more with
my kids.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
It's so funny.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
I look at my first book and I write it,
you know, my seven year old is sleeping, and I'm like,
oh my goodness, I was so young.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
He was such a baby. He's said all you know,
now that is oh gosh.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
But you know, I just wanted to be home with him.
And you know, that's why I went from being a
full time journalist to being an author, so that I
could have this hybrid life where I could still have
a career. But also it's not always just about getting
the and paying for the childcare. It's also about the
experience of being a parent. I've a friend who's always
reminding me, don't forget it's the journey. It's the journey
(38:00):
getting it done. And I think that's so important, and
I'm so glad that you brought that up. But I
do think that, especially after the pandemic, what's really wonderful
is a lot of stay at home parents, whether their
moms or dads, can have a more of a hybrid
approach to work if they choose to. And that's really
been a gift for me that now I'm talking to
(38:21):
you from my home office versus before the pandemic, even
when I worked for myself, I went into an office
because of just the social pressures and the social norms.
And now my sixteen year old is waiting, and when
we're done, I'm taking him to his tennis lesson Excellent,
It isn't that great?
Speaker 1 (38:36):
And then when I'm done with that.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
I'll come back and I'll be writing my weekly newsletter,
which tends to be bi weekly sometimes because I'm not
as good as your jivement, your.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Time management skills.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
I need to get better at listening to that your
morning podcast, which I love.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
I think it's important. You made a really good point
and a very important point for all of us.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Well excellent. Well, so we always end with a love
of the week. So I can go first, so you
can think of it if you would like. But I'm
going to throw out the concept of reverse ATMs, which
has saved me in a few situations. So the number
of places that have gone cashlests since the pandemic is
kind of startling to me as a person who it
(39:15):
likes cash and also likes to give children cash because
I feel like they can use it and if they
lose it, they haven't lost that much of anything. It's
not a problem. But so many places are cash lists now.
So I've like sent kids to amusement parks on like
youth group trips and they're like, wait, I can't use
my cash. I have to use a card. But most
of these places now have installed machines where they're reverse ATMs.
(39:35):
You put in the cash, get out a card for
that amount, and so then you can use that. So
I think that's kind of a cool technology as well.
I love that.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Yeah, I think that's really smart and it really is
a way of bridging the gap between the sort of
push and pull between because people always ask me, they
frame digital money as such a problem, but it's the reality.
So it's important that we can sort of go between
both worlds. Yeah, there, I made a pun on your podcast.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Exactly, all right, what's your I love of the weak, Bobby.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
So my son just came back. I have a sixteen
year old who goes to boarding school. He's in tenth grade,
and he just came home for spring break a couple
of days ago. And what's interesting is with teenagers, this
could happen. I'm sure if your kid's home full time
as well, but it seems like they're changing. All kids
are changing constantly, but you get it in chunks when
they come home from boarding school. And so he just
(40:22):
came home and I haven't seen him in person. Well
I saw him in person in New York a month ago,
but still having these full conversations with him he's like
this many adult. He changes and he's suddenly challenging me
on things and his new thing and this is a fun,
interesting thing, so people can try with their teenagers. His
new phase is he is listening to these songs, rock
(40:42):
and roll songs, kind of I don't know. He was
listening to Guns n' Roses and also Hotel California.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
I think that's the Eagles.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
I don't know. I don't even know these songs, but
I kind of know them, but I don't know who
sings all of them. And he's looking at the words
and sort of trying to figure out, well, what is
the true meaning of this song? And apparently, for example,
he told me and people can look this up. I
haven't verified these yet, Hotel California is actually about materialism
and the quest for more and more success in America.
(41:11):
You can check out, but you can never leave. I
guess I have no right. We're constantly striving for more.
That's what he said. But the point is, I'm having
these deep conversations with this manchild, this change who's sixteen,
that I've never had before. He suddenly became this super intellectual,
curious kid who's just like researching all these songs. He's
(41:33):
researching David Bowie songs and I don't want to say
what some of those are about, but I was like, oh, okay,
he's challenging me. It's just so interesting when your kid
changes on you in a fascinating way that you didn't
see coming.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
So that's my love. Well, and I bet he's like
two inches taller than the last time you saw him
as well, so that's always why.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
That happens too, Yes, and the ironies. And we went
to the pediatrician, which he was sort of he felt humiliated.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
I don't know if teenage parents can understand this, because.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
They do have to still go to a pediatrician at
age sixteen. They do, and he wasn't happy about that
because you've got these like toddlers in the office because
it's spring break, so the kids down here are in school,
so there's no other teenager at ten am on a
Monday in the pediatrician's office. But he's there with the
babies that aren't in school yet. But the pediatrician clarified
that they do take kids certainly until eighteen and sometimes
(42:23):
twenty one.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
So anyway, pediatric and adolescent health, Yes, so Bobby let
everyone know where they can find you.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
You can find me at Financial Wellness Strategies dot com
where you can learn more about that business. You can
also buy my book Launching Financial Grownups on Amazon or ideally,
I'll say, at your local bookstore. But if they don't
stock it because it's been out for a year, please
ask them to get it. And the same thing at
libraries libraries. If you don't see it at your local library,
please ask them to stock it at your local library,
(42:52):
because we always do want to support libraries.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Excellent. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Bobby,
We really appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me. Well,
we are back listening to Bobby Rebel talk about launching
Financial Grownups and how we can help young adult children
and teens and tweens figure out how to navigate the
world of money. So this question came to Sarah. I
(43:18):
can read it says, do I have this right that
neither of you use Google Calendar or digital calendars at all?
How do you schedule appointments that go on your paper
planner when you go out? Do you have a different
system for how and do you write down tasks like
call for doctor's appointments and events like Mother's Day brunch, Sarah,
(43:40):
are we writing on cave walls?
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Like?
Speaker 1 (43:43):
How far in the past are we living?
Speaker 2 (43:47):
I know this is kind of funny as you read
the question, I'm like, the question did seem a little incredulous.
I'm like, but in twenty ten, I mean, no one
was carrying around a phone, so either you were using
like a palm pilot or you were whipping out your
lin and then that would have been weird, right, So like, anyway, yes,
I bring my planner with me. I usually have my
hobuonichi cousin everywhere I go. It is honestly just not
(44:10):
that big. I mean I look at the purses and
backpacks most people carry around, and there usually isn't a
space for a planner. I usually carry like a kind
of average sized tope bag. It has my planner, my wallets, sunglasses, keys,
It's about it. But that means if I'm in an appointment,
I can just turn to the day and write it
down right then and there.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Now, if I do happen to.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
Go somewhere and I don't bring it with me for
whatever reason, then I just take my best guess. Like
I know that usually Tuesdays and Thursdays are more flexible,
and then I tell them I may have to call
them a reschedule, and I email it to myself using
my phone right then and there, so then I know
when I'm clearing my inbox, I'll see that appointment be
able to either write it in my planner if it
works out or if it doesn't, be like, uh oh,
(44:51):
I have to call and fix it. But honestly, that
doesn't happen all that often.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Yeah, I often bring my little calendar with me if
I'm in a situation where I think I might need
to schedule something, and sometimes when I'm traveling, I just
take a picture of the next few weeks in the
little calendar. It's a pocket sized at a glance weekly calendar,
and this is separate from my planner. So the calendar
is where I put time specific stuff and that is
(45:16):
for the whole year, so I can schedule stuff out
as far as I need to. I buy the next
year is in like September, so then I have that
to schedule out for the next year for anything. The
planner is where I create my priority lists for an
actual week and create my daily to do list, so
I have two separate things. But because of that, the
calendar is quite tiny and is no bigger than a phone,
(45:38):
so it can go anywhere if I'm worried about losing it.
Like I said, I take pictures of the next few
weeks and then I have that on my phone so
I can consult that if I happen to not have
the paper calendar with me. And yeah, I've taken guesses too.
It for some reason I don't have it and find
I need to make an appointment, I will guess and
then call back if I need to. It's really not
(46:00):
that challenging. I haven't had anyone really look at me
like I am carving on a cave wall. Maybe it
could happen, but I'm okay. It works. It works. If
it works, it works, I mean really in life, if
something works, it works, right, Like this is a blanket
productivity tip. You do not have to change just because
(46:21):
everyone around you has.
Speaker 3 (46:23):
Now.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
I understand that if you're working in a major corporation
you have to use Outlook for your work meetings and
things like that, but you can still have your own
calendar that's separate, I mean, or you can, you know,
if you know roughly what your work hours are. You
can have those and then schedule things outside of it
on your own paper calendar if you want to, or
you can have one digital calendar that's like Google and
you import your stuff from work and so you can
(46:44):
see it there. You can put your own stuff on
Google and then nobody needs to know about it at work,
but you have one source of truth as well, so
lots of different options. Figure out what works for you
and then stick with it, right. I think it's the
changing that can can make people lose stuff. Well, what's
been best of Both worlds? Talking about launching Financial Grownups
with Bobby Rebel. We will be back next week with
(47:05):
more on making work and life fit together. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com
or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This
has been the best of Both Worlds podcasts. Please join
us next time for more on making work and life
work together.
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