November 25, 2020 • 28 mins
You probably know Zanna Roberts Rassi from the red carpet as an E! News fashion correspondent. But she’s also a stylist, journalist, mom to twin girls, and co-founder of the wildly popular vegan, paraben-free, and cruelty-free beauty brand, Milk Makeup—and so much more. This week, Zanna joins Bobbi to talk about her journey in the fashion and beauty industries, the story behind Milk Makeup, and what it’s really like to be in business with your husband.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Beyond the Beauty is a production of I Heart Radio.
I'm your host, Bobby Brown. Someone who I have admired
and really liked is Xanna Roberts Rossi. She is currently
(00:27):
the founder of Milk Makeup, but she has been beauty editor,
of fashion editor, on air, and so many more things.
She's literally on every red carpet talking about the look.
She gets to really talk to anybody and everybody, and
she's able to bring this cool brand, Milk Studios, into
(00:49):
the beauty world. I want to talk to her about
what it's like to work with your husband, to be
a mom to six year old girls and somehow find
a balt between work and family life. And I also
I'm really curious what she's going to do next because
I know this is in her last gig. Hey's Anna, Hello,
(01:09):
my friend, how are you? I am great? First of all,
I always wanted to ask you where did you get
this namely an abbreviation of Susannah. We's wanted Zanna, but
I think then in growing up in Manchester in England
and Catholic, it was a little bit too progressive to
have Zanna, so they was like, oh, just go with Susannah.
(01:30):
But I was always called Zanna. Okay, oh, I get you. So.
I don't even remember the first time we worked together,
but it was it was in the UK, it was
not in not in the States, and you were an
editor of Marie Claire. Correct, that's right, beauty editor at
Mary Claire. UM. I remember so clearly because you had
(01:51):
come over on one of your press trips. I got
the amazing opportunity to interview. And I remember being so
nervous because I was a beauty assistant and I was
meeting was great makeup maybe and as I believe I
called you in the feature I wrote, um, and it was.
It was just such an amazing moment to have time
with you, to spend to pick your brains. Um. Yes.
So I was so fortunate to get time with you,
(02:14):
and that was definitely like one of those moments in
my career. Was like, Wow, Okay, this is it, this
is real beauty. This is like I'm interviewing Bobby Brown
and you know what, that was the first trip I
ever took to New York City. Um. And I did
a whole story on you and the company, and we
had some great models and we did a whole shoot.
(02:35):
But that was like my moment in New York was like, oh,
I love this down so much, but but I remember, like,
I don't remember you being a young just starting. I
don't remember you being excited. I just remember you being
so sweet and nice and uh yeah, I've always you know,
I had very good feelings towards you, and so you
(02:57):
do not disappoint even now. Do you remember that? And
this is funny because I was actually thinking back when
we first met, not first met the second time in
New York City. I showed up on that shoe and
I just broken my notes that I don't remember me
and had a cast on my nose and glasses on
(03:17):
because drink. Isn't that funny? I remember your how nice
you were and how sweet and how talented. I don't
remember your broken's incredible, you know, I just remember that
was one of those moves like I'm never gonna looked
this down. I'm pretty I think I fell off my
own life. But um, you actually didn't even really talk
about it. So that's that's the test. And I have
(03:38):
a plethora of photos backstage had fashion well that was
like so much A beauty edited them as well, so
we were the only ones really imparting the information about
beauty right, so would get this privileged position of being
backstage of all the shows, talking about the trends, what
was going on, how to get the look um, you know,
(03:59):
along with doing these amazing shoots and getting to meet
the founders and the scientists behind the brands. And it
really was like the most immersive experience and beauty and
I was just locked into it. Wherever that was it
like I've done, you probably never could have imagined that
that was such homework for you, becoming your own beauty
founder of a brand like you never probably thought of
(04:21):
it back then, never ever, ever ever. I mean it
was more like you'd see how many, even back then,
how many products there were, and it was saturated, you know,
it was just so much every day that the new
stuff coming into the beauty close it would be trying.
So I was such a I try every single thing
that came out as well, and it was apparent that
(04:43):
there was a lot already out there, so I always
would think, well, if we did, it would have to
be something super duper special. But as an editor, when
these things come in, how did you choose what to
write about? I mean a lot of founders would probably
kill to get their things in the magazine. What did
you as an editor do? UM? I suppose it was
(05:04):
anything that was relevant at the moment. I think innovation
was always a key, anything that had an interesting ingredients story. UM.
Founder stories were always so interesting and they are today
as well. You know, really understanding more about the product
through the founder and their background. You know, whether it
be discovering it on a kitchen table or um, you know,
(05:26):
through a problem that they had of their own and
it was the solution for that. And I think this was,
like I said, really the only platform that was telling
these stories. UM. And then obviously there was the stuff
that worked. If you tried something and it was made
your head go from brittle to shiny in three seconds,
I was like, we're writing about that. And you started
(05:49):
and reclear as an intern. By the time you left,
you were an editor at large, which I don't know
what that means. Editor at large? What does that mean? So? UM,
I was a beauty editor at mary Clan and you kay,
I worked my way up the mast head there and
then I moved to Mary Claire US when I moved
to New York. But so then I moved into fashion. Uh.
And then fashion was from going to from a UK
(06:12):
publication in beauty to an American publication in fashion was
quite the shock. Um, so very different. Um, you know,
it was less of like beauty is a very kind world.
I always found it was very It was just a
lot of great people doing a lot of great work,
but kind. And then fashion was a little bit scarier.
It just was, you know, it was a little bit
(06:32):
more um ruthless in a way. And I think because
of American magazines are run so much more heavily on
the dollar as well the advertisers. Um, I did have
this like almost devil words proud a moment of coming
to New York. There was definitely a shoe thrown across
an office. I definitely saw someone get fired in the
first few days. Um. But yeah, I think you know,
(06:54):
I was doing that for a long time, but I
missed the democratization of the beauty world and the really
giving people solid information and tips and helping them. So
for that reason, I would like move away from shooting
the big designer looks that you know, cost thousands, cost
more than I was getting paid for a year, um,
to doing like, oh can we do an under hundred page,
(07:16):
Can we do a page of shop the shoot? Can
we shoot real girls? Like? Cool? Found like And I
think it was that beauty background as well, like being
the journalist that always made me want to kind of
democratize it in that way. Um. And then I left
to do more TV because I found that actually that
was more frowned on in magazines. But TV love that world.
They love the fact that I was going to do
looks under fifty dollars and I was going to do
(07:38):
it with you know, models of all shapes and sizes.
And so that's when I kind of launched into like
the Today shows of the world, like Yourself and Great
Terray and doing more for E. So that's long story
shot how I became more of an at large editor
instead of a full time editor. And are you still
a fashion editor at E or are you more freelance?
(07:59):
I'm it at EM their fashion correspondent style correspondents. So
I do everything I've just come off and Fashion Week,
which I covered, which was the most obviously unprecedented, unique
New York Fashion Week we've never had. Um, I do
all the red carpets stuff for them. UM. So yeah,
I'm they're UM fashion trusted fashion person who again it
(08:19):
was great going into kind of bridging the gaps between
the celebrity and the fashion world and the world of
um the fashion that really was never you know, people
trust me, So I could go to Victoria Becka would say, well,
we do an interview about fashion with us on E
and I'm not you know, it wouldn't be sensationalized, it
would be real. I'm we could talk the same language.
(08:40):
And I think because of that trust, I could build
these great relationships and give them a platform money that
they never had. And did you do all of this
from home? This this season? How I was? It was
in the city and we were literally in the hotel room,
so I was doing zoom after zoom. It was literally
SJP woman, Rihanna the next, Brandon Maxwell the next, um
(09:04):
it was a little now as ext the next. I mean,
it was surreal. We did that and then we did
a couple of shows. Jason, we showed um Mons you
did see now buying our presentation. You know, full COVID
tests in the space of two days and protocols are high.
Um but it was important to do. It's important to
keep pushing creativity. It's important for our industry. UM, and
(09:25):
I would have always they asked me to do that,
I said, of course, yes, you know, this is the
time we really need to be helping each other as well.
And now let's get to Milk. So Milk. Now, your
(09:48):
husband is the founder of Milk Studios. Correct. Um And
how long does he have Milk Studios? So, Milk Studios
was founded in Um, it was nineties six, so it's
plus twenty years ago. UM. And it's this kind of
it's downtown New York City. It's you know, it's the
(10:10):
home of the creative set. We like to say it's
like the crossroads of fashion and photography and entertainment and
music and art. Um. But it's so much more than
a student. You've been there, but but you know it constantly. Yeah, yeah,
there's there's so many other things as well as that.
You know, they've got the gallery, the jam room downstairs. UM,
(10:30):
you know, the fashion shows that were there, all the events,
and it really is the you know, the creative core
set that lived there that inspired Milk Makeup. You know,
we just but we just like literally sit in the
lobby and watch everyone go by in the most and
they'd wear makeup in the most creative ways, you know,
the photographers and stylists, the assistance musicians, and it was
(10:52):
always like loaded with personality, like self expression. It wasn't
about the looks that were actually being created in the studio,
do you know the high fashion glamor. It was much
more about like the assistance in the cool way they'd
wear their makeup that we were all like, Okay, this
is it. This is what male makeup is all about,
and whose idea was it? So there was myself, Russie
(11:14):
was the pie piper who brought the band together. Um, myself.
Georgie Greville, who is the founding creative director. She has
an MTV background, She's one VM as film director, super zeitgeiste,
like always ahead of the curve. And then Diana ruth
is the wizard in the kitchen. You know, she makes
all the products her and her incredible team. I love it.
(11:37):
She's like, I am never creating anything that already exists.
We call it Diana Ruthless. Um, she doesn't make it
easy on herself. And then there's Russie and myself. Um,
you know, Russy is such a branding wizard and the
mayor of the meat packing we call him. Um. So
together the four of us have just brought something different,
you know, me with my editorial and the others with
(11:58):
the innovation and creativity and brand. So I think it's
a very unusual foesome to be. You know, co founders
come from very different parts. But together we created something
that's pretty unique. We we think. And what's it like
working with your husband? Oh my gosh, you tell me this. Yeah,
(12:18):
I work with mine too, So yes, is this pre
or during quarantine? We're talking right, exactly exactly. You know,
the first year was not like pre launch and launch.
It was not We had one year old twin girls. Um.
I I can't shut off very well either. I'm work
holic and I like doing things at home like marketing ideas,
(12:40):
I social ideas, pr ideas. Um. Rassi is really good
at flipping switch. So he'll say, no, we can't roll
over in bed and start talking about you know, branding
and marketing. Um, that's not sexy. Um. So he was
good to like he we just had meetings. He would
get together in an office environment twice a week and
(13:00):
talk about everything that had to be discussed. Um. Quarantine
is a whole different matter. I mean, my god, which
like fighting over the I'm right now in my bedroom
because he's doing his me call down all of us, right,
I mean, how are you doing? It's it's it's pretty
interesting and you know, it's funny. My husband and I
are very similar that my husband doesn't want to talk
(13:22):
about things, but I will hop in the car with
him because I will get him bored in the car
so that we could talk about everything. You do this too,
I do it. We go to SuperM Yeah, I'm coming
to the because I know you have to pick your
timing and the right because you never know what mood
they're going to do. And sometimes yeah, I I we
married the same strong man we did. Is it by
(13:43):
any time? Um? No, I'm an area. Yeah, I'll see.
But I'm interesting in my life all especially female leaders
of mine, every editor in chief, every person I've flipped
up to, every mentor, it's been an aries female. And
I've had to work really hard to turn my brain
off at ight and not especially things that are stressing
me out. I realized they're not going to go anywhere good.
(14:05):
So I have learned to, you know, to put them
somewhere else and deal with them in the morning. How
do you do. That is that meditation? No, I don't meditate.
I don't meditate. I just realized that I literally visit.
I visually have a shelf. It's a visual shelf, and
I put all the different things in different boxes, and
I put it on the shelf. And if I sometimes
(14:28):
it falls off the shelf, and then if my husband
says not now, or I don't know what to do
with it, I visually put it back on the shelf.
I know it's going to be there in the morning.
That's a version of meditation, and I love it because
it's not like counting out from my head. Yeah, and
a vodka on the rocks, you know, in the evening
helps me, you know, let go of certain things. Yeah.
(14:50):
Never before have I really been into the book until
the lockdown all of a sudden, favorite thrink. It's so funny.
So tell me a little bit of what is different
about milk makeup and what was important to you to
make it a different kind of a brand. I mean
so many things. I think from from day one, you know,
we talk we're obviously vegan, UM cruelty free, parabin free,
(15:17):
UM clean. You know, all those things were very important.
Was because we knew our consumer, the person I mentioned before,
he's floating around milk, also had high demands, you know,
and we wanted to reimagine what beauty could be. You know,
it could be cool and clean, it could have great
ingredients and still epic payoff at the same time. Um.
You know, and you mentioned something about the the non gender,
(15:40):
the gender language. We never put that in marketing. You know.
Our first campaign was featured a whole spectrum of gender identification,
and we didn't it was a moot point. We didn't
even make any deal out of it. You know, it's
empowered women, trans models, and straight men wearing makeup. Um.
I think someone actually called the anti marketing at the time.
Not and they were in the company. Um, but it
(16:02):
was exactly what we stood for and is exactly what
our community wanted, and they were being underrepresented at the time,
so we went full throttle on that. Um. Everything about
it is very utilitarian as well. That was something I
was very keen on having, you know, fast makeup, makeup
that you could do quickly in the back of a cab,
makeup to save time in the mornings, as smart as
(16:24):
your iPhone, you know, stuff that just did the job.
Did it well. I always say, we're very innovative and
in concept, creative in spirit and utilitarian and use and
you're when you launched it was exclusive with Sephora, correct,
it was yes. Um, we pitched to Sapara. We didn't
(16:45):
even have a product. Okay, crazy, We flew all the
way to San Francisco. Um, we met them in there.
You remember them meeting so clearly. We had so much
passion and a great deck and all these ideas and
zero products. Um. But they saw the white space immediately. Um.
They realized very very they were very smart, and they said, look,
(17:06):
if you couldn't create the products that you're talking about, them,
weren't And how long was you're exclusive? We're still exclusive
today in the US? You are? Yeah, So you have
a director consumer side. We do. We have directed consumer. Um.
We're also now in Um we're in the Middle East
with them as well. Um. We're also now in the
(17:27):
UK with self ages and cult beauty. Ah, there's no
Sophora in the UK. No that. I think they tried
it a long time ago and then it didn't work,
which was so strange to me. And tell me what
is wrong with bees wax that they don't kill the
bees to get the bees wax. But is that not
a vegan Yeah, it's not. It's it's not credited, so
(17:49):
we are we're renting the beeswax because of our chrishimascara. Yeah,
so we UM we wanted to create a mascara that
was super nourishing as well. UM notoriously had to create
a vegan scar because these waxes the um traditional binding
agent in it. So it was Diana Ruth, who's who
I mentioned to our co founder and her team, who
(18:11):
then came up with the idea of using hemp drive
cannabis seed oil extract um. And it is the perfect
alternative because it's super As I said, it's super conditioning.
It's like a hair mask for your lashes. It comes
off east if you don't have the tug when you're
pulling and you're taking your makeup off at the night,
but you don't get the fall out in the day.
It's it's been a complete game change. It's super best seller.
(18:35):
And it's not it doesn't smear, no, because it's moisturizing. No.
I know. That's what's so strange about the consistency of it.
It doesn't it's kind of whipped so it doesn't smear.
It's creamy, but it's whipped, so it's not like it's
something that's oozing down your face. She's never Yeah, But
then what keeps you up at night? Like about the
(18:56):
products the company? Like what you know, all of us
entrepreneurs have anks, that's what we do. I suppose it's
there's so many things we have to yet do. The
ideas that go through your brain. I mean, sustainability is
a big one. How can we all become more sustainable? Um?
That that right now is a major focus, and you know,
and being with our community more than ever. You know,
(19:17):
we've always had a philanthropic angle. We've always worked with
you know, lgbt Q, we worked with the Center, We've
always donated, but it's now it's like, how can we
be even more active in that space? Um? And thankfully
we've got a great team fully behind us with that.
So it's been an interesting few months, but we've all
learned so much and we've got we really do have
an epic team. Like zooming all them all once a
(19:40):
week and seeing everyone who's just so invested and just
really believes in the brand. Is you know what It's
like it's it's the most powerful thing. You underestimate the
power of that when you find a company. You know,
And what's the biggest surprise to you about being owning
a beauty brand like that? You had no clue. You
(20:00):
said this, You've said it today. We were so naive.
We had no idea, no idea. I mean, if we'd
have known the amount of everything it would take, I
don't know if we'd have done it. I really don't know.
Rassie says this all the time. It's like, I just
don't know. I mean, I'm so glad we did, but
I'm also really glad we didn't know everything before. So
(20:20):
you're still on Glad Masters. Is that still on TV?
It's not right now. But it was such a fun
show to do. It was myself, um Levine Cox was
the host, Kim Kardashian West was the producer, makeup. I
Mario was the one of the panelists, as with Candy Johnson,
and you know, we were there day and night for
(20:42):
six weeks. It was It was an intense shoot, but
we became really really close. It was great. It was
such a fun experience. And do you think it'll be back?
I hope. So in some form it has to be back,
you know. I think things like that as well would
suit digital so well, right now, um, it was a
linear show, but yeah, and some way shape of fall,
(21:02):
I hope it will return. And because you meet so
many of the other founders, I'm sure you know Rihanna
and Selena and all these other your competition, we were
talking about how people are very supportive of each other.
Isn't it wonderful? I just yeah, it feels like it
never used to be like that. As you know, we
were saying that today it's like the sharing of information,
(21:24):
of ideas, of context. I know someone who can help
you with this. Let me put you in touch with
this person. What about this This is a great idea,
Well that's not a great idea, like literally like being
each other's consultants. And you're one of the founders of
the secret society that we're part of that that our
friend Mage put together. It's called I always get it wrong,
it's called Beauty United, Beauty United, and it's all the
(21:46):
founders that talk about the different things that are happening.
And this is since COVID, so one of the best
things about being you know, home is we've been able
to connect on zoom because we never would have done
this one time, even together, not one time. And we're
so many into it now. This is yeah, a dent
one of those amazing silvil linings. Those come from this.
(22:06):
People are very giving to each other, you know, like
I need a distributor, I need this, I need this
package person. It's it's really really cool. It's totally not
to mention the gift back that's happened for you know,
we all did the Beauty United video together. Immediately when
it all went down, We're like, we need to do
a video, we need to raise some money. All of
the groups, all of the companies involved gave so much
(22:30):
to relief funds to frontline responders. I mean, the Frontline
respond To fund went up in excess of ten million. Now,
all working together and making things happen, and we were
able to donate to all the you know, people working
the front lines, and you know, pretty pretty amazing. I'm
proud to be part of it. So Zana, this um,
(23:01):
this podcast is called Beyond the Beauty, But I want
to hear from you what beauty means to you? What
does beauty mean to me? I mean It might be
so cliche, but it's to be really truly happy in
your own look. I had to be able to live
your own look mantras, live your look and milk. And
it's for a reason because I think when you know
your own look, you're not trying to be someone else,
(23:24):
and with that comes so much like confidence and presence
and power, and that to me is beautiful. And you
are clearly a beautiful girl, a beautiful woman. What do
you do when you don't feel beautiful? Oh? Go and
see um, Go get a fake chat, get have own track.
(23:47):
Sleep That sleep is my major tool, like if my
whether I look bad, doing bad, and being unproductive, it's
it's always a direct color relation into how much sleep
I've had. It's ridiculous, it's annoying. I wish I could
be one of those people who could just thrive on five.
(24:07):
I was sleep at night, but no, do you have
trouble sleeping? Um? When I wake up in the middle
of the night, and it's always the work. It's always
like the ideas or the stress of something coming up.
And it will always be before a big day as well,
which is most annoying, like before the office, and then
I'm just lay there like god sleep. Um. Do you
(24:29):
do you have any good sleeping tips, Bobby, I feel
like you might. You know what. I make sure I
have melotona near my bed because even it stays in
your body only three hours, I think, so yeah and yes.
And by the way, sometimes if you eat, I take
it and I instantly go to sleep. So my body
(24:49):
doesn't need it, my mind needs it. And I've also
found the magnesium at night. UM helps It helps all
your muscles relax, so your brain is a muscle, so
it helps my brain relax. Wonderful. What is it? What's
your daily skincareater? I'm rapid, like we've not got time
(25:09):
to be luxuriating in the bathroom, I'm afraid, but shower. Um.
I throw on Vegan milk moisturizer, which is our vegan
milk moisturizer. It's super rich. I was put on straight
when my skin still damp out the shower. Um. It's
it's very rich, but it's not greasy, so I'm jobbed
straight away. Um. And then I go with Sunshine skin tint,
(25:31):
which is very quick moisturizing shit tin with an SPF
fifteen in it. Matt Bronze stick one about o G
sticks quick quick tann intent I call it kushmascara and
a bit of a cush lit bump and I'm done.
And what about your hair? What are your beauty go
to products? Christoph Robin overly bleached situation. I definitely have
(25:54):
braids in this morning because now it's just like too
to that's if I don't have to put heat on it,
I will not. And what about what are your beauty robbers? Like?
What are the things that you're like? I'm doing it anyways.
I know it's not going to be a pretty day tomorrow.
I mean the affoe mentioned vodka or tequilagnas is there's
(26:16):
a little bit of a weak spot. Um. And the sleep,
I mean, it's so I wish I had better tips
than those like that. It's so obvious. But yeah, those
bad habits die hard. Well what about your health habit?
I don't do loads and loads of cops because it
just doesn't make me feel good. I just feel bad,
(26:37):
I mean instantly, Like I think I've probably made myself
gluten intolerant because I know I cut it out a
long time ago. Um, and then when it comes to
work out, I'm really into YouTube hoem videos of this
this girl, um Pamela Reef. I only discovered this joined
the lot down German model. But she does the most
(26:59):
precise ice workout, so like ten minutes and you can
choose your body parts literally bum ab ums, so precise
thirty seconds on each exercise and you move and it's
just great music. She was as good outfit on It's like, okay,
this is easy. Um, but yeah, I'm not running any
marathons anytime soon. Put it away. Ah And one one
(27:22):
last question, how do you shut it off because you've
got two children or three children? Have twin girls then
now six years old? Um, I shut it off by
spending time with them. We were like family meals, best
cooking a great dinner, sitting around around the table. We
(27:42):
all had a camp fire the other night. Like those
moments you can't possibly think about work when you're in
it and they're just running around being crazy and fun
and that that's my that's my go to place. They
must be a really good focus group for your makeup.
Oh my god, you should. At six we're all vegan
and clean because they can use it all they want. Well,
(28:05):
thank you so much for making the time taking the
time to talk to me. It's so nice, Bobby. Thank
you for having me. This podcast is so good. By
the way. Ah well, I'm here for you anytime, so much.
All right, Well, thanks go kiss those kids being the moment,
Bye bye. Thanks Bobby. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio,
(28:29):
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I'm your host, Bobby Brown. Someone who I have admired
and really liked is Xanna Roberts Rossi. She is currently
(00:27):
the founder of Milk Makeup, but she has been beauty editor,
of fashion editor, on air, and so many more things.
She's literally on every red carpet talking about the look.
She gets to really talk to anybody and everybody, and
she's able to bring this cool brand, Milk Studios, into
(00:49):
the beauty world. I want to talk to her about
what it's like to work with your husband, to be
a mom to six year old girls and somehow find
a balt between work and family life. And I also
I'm really curious what she's going to do next because
I know this is in her last gig. Hey's Anna, Hello,
(01:09):
my friend, how are you? I am great? First of all,
I always wanted to ask you where did you get
this namely an abbreviation of Susannah. We's wanted Zanna, but
I think then in growing up in Manchester in England
and Catholic, it was a little bit too progressive to
have Zanna, so they was like, oh, just go with Susannah.
(01:30):
But I was always called Zanna. Okay, oh, I get you. So.
I don't even remember the first time we worked together,
but it was it was in the UK, it was
not in not in the States, and you were an
editor of Marie Claire. Correct, that's right, beauty editor at
Mary Claire. UM. I remember so clearly because you had
(01:51):
come over on one of your press trips. I got
the amazing opportunity to interview. And I remember being so
nervous because I was a beauty assistant and I was
meeting was great makeup maybe and as I believe I
called you in the feature I wrote, um, and it was.
It was just such an amazing moment to have time
with you, to spend to pick your brains. Um. Yes.
So I was so fortunate to get time with you,
(02:14):
and that was definitely like one of those moments in
my career. Was like, Wow, Okay, this is it, this
is real beauty. This is like I'm interviewing Bobby Brown
and you know what, that was the first trip I
ever took to New York City. Um. And I did
a whole story on you and the company, and we
had some great models and we did a whole shoot.
(02:35):
But that was like my moment in New York was like, oh,
I love this down so much, but but I remember, like,
I don't remember you being a young just starting. I
don't remember you being excited. I just remember you being
so sweet and nice and uh yeah, I've always you know,
I had very good feelings towards you, and so you
(02:57):
do not disappoint even now. Do you remember that? And
this is funny because I was actually thinking back when
we first met, not first met the second time in
New York City. I showed up on that shoe and
I just broken my notes that I don't remember me
and had a cast on my nose and glasses on
(03:17):
because drink. Isn't that funny? I remember your how nice
you were and how sweet and how talented. I don't
remember your broken's incredible, you know, I just remember that
was one of those moves like I'm never gonna looked
this down. I'm pretty I think I fell off my
own life. But um, you actually didn't even really talk
about it. So that's that's the test. And I have
(03:38):
a plethora of photos backstage had fashion well that was
like so much A beauty edited them as well, so
we were the only ones really imparting the information about
beauty right, so would get this privileged position of being
backstage of all the shows, talking about the trends, what
was going on, how to get the look um, you know,
(03:59):
along with doing these amazing shoots and getting to meet
the founders and the scientists behind the brands. And it
really was like the most immersive experience and beauty and
I was just locked into it. Wherever that was it
like I've done, you probably never could have imagined that
that was such homework for you, becoming your own beauty
founder of a brand like you never probably thought of
(04:21):
it back then, never ever, ever ever. I mean it
was more like you'd see how many, even back then,
how many products there were, and it was saturated, you know,
it was just so much every day that the new
stuff coming into the beauty close it would be trying.
So I was such a I try every single thing
that came out as well, and it was apparent that
(04:43):
there was a lot already out there, so I always
would think, well, if we did, it would have to
be something super duper special. But as an editor, when
these things come in, how did you choose what to
write about? I mean a lot of founders would probably
kill to get their things in the magazine. What did
you as an editor do? UM? I suppose it was
(05:04):
anything that was relevant at the moment. I think innovation
was always a key, anything that had an interesting ingredients story. UM.
Founder stories were always so interesting and they are today
as well. You know, really understanding more about the product
through the founder and their background. You know, whether it
be discovering it on a kitchen table or um, you know,
(05:26):
through a problem that they had of their own and
it was the solution for that. And I think this was,
like I said, really the only platform that was telling
these stories. UM. And then obviously there was the stuff
that worked. If you tried something and it was made
your head go from brittle to shiny in three seconds,
I was like, we're writing about that. And you started
(05:49):
and reclear as an intern. By the time you left,
you were an editor at large, which I don't know
what that means. Editor at large? What does that mean? So? UM,
I was a beauty editor at mary Clan and you kay,
I worked my way up the mast head there and
then I moved to Mary Claire US when I moved
to New York. But so then I moved into fashion. Uh.
And then fashion was from going to from a UK
(06:12):
publication in beauty to an American publication in fashion was
quite the shock. Um, so very different. Um, you know,
it was less of like beauty is a very kind world.
I always found it was very It was just a
lot of great people doing a lot of great work,
but kind. And then fashion was a little bit scarier.
It just was, you know, it was a little bit
(06:32):
more um ruthless in a way. And I think because
of American magazines are run so much more heavily on
the dollar as well the advertisers. Um, I did have
this like almost devil words proud a moment of coming
to New York. There was definitely a shoe thrown across
an office. I definitely saw someone get fired in the
first few days. Um. But yeah, I think you know,
(06:54):
I was doing that for a long time, but I
missed the democratization of the beauty world and the really
giving people solid information and tips and helping them. So
for that reason, I would like move away from shooting
the big designer looks that you know, cost thousands, cost
more than I was getting paid for a year, um,
to doing like, oh can we do an under hundred page,
(07:16):
Can we do a page of shop the shoot? Can
we shoot real girls? Like? Cool? Found like And I
think it was that beauty background as well, like being
the journalist that always made me want to kind of
democratize it in that way. Um. And then I left
to do more TV because I found that actually that
was more frowned on in magazines. But TV love that world.
They love the fact that I was going to do
looks under fifty dollars and I was going to do
(07:38):
it with you know, models of all shapes and sizes.
And so that's when I kind of launched into like
the Today shows of the world, like Yourself and Great
Terray and doing more for E. So that's long story
shot how I became more of an at large editor
instead of a full time editor. And are you still
a fashion editor at E or are you more freelance?
(07:59):
I'm it at EM their fashion correspondent style correspondents. So
I do everything I've just come off and Fashion Week,
which I covered, which was the most obviously unprecedented, unique
New York Fashion Week we've never had. Um, I do
all the red carpets stuff for them. UM. So yeah,
I'm they're UM fashion trusted fashion person who again it
(08:19):
was great going into kind of bridging the gaps between
the celebrity and the fashion world and the world of
um the fashion that really was never you know, people
trust me, So I could go to Victoria Becka would say, well,
we do an interview about fashion with us on E
and I'm not you know, it wouldn't be sensationalized, it
would be real. I'm we could talk the same language.
(08:40):
And I think because of that trust, I could build
these great relationships and give them a platform money that
they never had. And did you do all of this
from home? This this season? How I was? It was
in the city and we were literally in the hotel room,
so I was doing zoom after zoom. It was literally
SJP woman, Rihanna the next, Brandon Maxwell the next, um
(09:04):
it was a little now as ext the next. I mean,
it was surreal. We did that and then we did
a couple of shows. Jason, we showed um Mons you
did see now buying our presentation. You know, full COVID
tests in the space of two days and protocols are high.
Um but it was important to do. It's important to
keep pushing creativity. It's important for our industry. UM, and
(09:25):
I would have always they asked me to do that,
I said, of course, yes, you know, this is the
time we really need to be helping each other as well.
And now let's get to Milk. So Milk. Now, your
(09:48):
husband is the founder of Milk Studios. Correct. Um And
how long does he have Milk Studios? So, Milk Studios
was founded in Um, it was nineties six, so it's
plus twenty years ago. UM. And it's this kind of
it's downtown New York City. It's you know, it's the
(10:10):
home of the creative set. We like to say it's
like the crossroads of fashion and photography and entertainment and
music and art. Um. But it's so much more than
a student. You've been there, but but you know it constantly. Yeah, yeah,
there's there's so many other things as well as that.
You know, they've got the gallery, the jam room downstairs. UM,
(10:30):
you know, the fashion shows that were there, all the events,
and it really is the you know, the creative core
set that lived there that inspired Milk Makeup. You know,
we just but we just like literally sit in the
lobby and watch everyone go by in the most and
they'd wear makeup in the most creative ways, you know,
the photographers and stylists, the assistance musicians, and it was
(10:52):
always like loaded with personality, like self expression. It wasn't
about the looks that were actually being created in the studio,
do you know the high fashion glamor. It was much
more about like the assistance in the cool way they'd
wear their makeup that we were all like, Okay, this
is it. This is what male makeup is all about,
and whose idea was it? So there was myself, Russie
(11:14):
was the pie piper who brought the band together. Um, myself.
Georgie Greville, who is the founding creative director. She has
an MTV background, She's one VM as film director, super zeitgeiste,
like always ahead of the curve. And then Diana ruth
is the wizard in the kitchen. You know, she makes
all the products her and her incredible team. I love it.
(11:37):
She's like, I am never creating anything that already exists.
We call it Diana Ruthless. Um, she doesn't make it
easy on herself. And then there's Russie and myself. Um,
you know, Russy is such a branding wizard and the
mayor of the meat packing we call him. Um. So
together the four of us have just brought something different,
you know, me with my editorial and the others with
(11:58):
the innovation and creativity and brand. So I think it's
a very unusual foesome to be. You know, co founders
come from very different parts. But together we created something
that's pretty unique. We we think. And what's it like
working with your husband? Oh my gosh, you tell me this. Yeah,
(12:18):
I work with mine too, So yes, is this pre
or during quarantine? We're talking right, exactly exactly. You know,
the first year was not like pre launch and launch.
It was not We had one year old twin girls. Um.
I I can't shut off very well either. I'm work
holic and I like doing things at home like marketing ideas,
(12:40):
I social ideas, pr ideas. Um. Rassi is really good
at flipping switch. So he'll say, no, we can't roll
over in bed and start talking about you know, branding
and marketing. Um, that's not sexy. Um. So he was
good to like he we just had meetings. He would
get together in an office environment twice a week and
(13:00):
talk about everything that had to be discussed. Um. Quarantine
is a whole different matter. I mean, my god, which
like fighting over the I'm right now in my bedroom
because he's doing his me call down all of us, right,
I mean, how are you doing? It's it's it's pretty
interesting and you know, it's funny. My husband and I
are very similar that my husband doesn't want to talk
(13:22):
about things, but I will hop in the car with
him because I will get him bored in the car
so that we could talk about everything. You do this too,
I do it. We go to SuperM Yeah, I'm coming
to the because I know you have to pick your
timing and the right because you never know what mood
they're going to do. And sometimes yeah, I I we
married the same strong man we did. Is it by
(13:43):
any time? Um? No, I'm an area. Yeah, I'll see.
But I'm interesting in my life all especially female leaders
of mine, every editor in chief, every person I've flipped
up to, every mentor, it's been an aries female. And
I've had to work really hard to turn my brain
off at ight and not especially things that are stressing
me out. I realized they're not going to go anywhere good.
(14:05):
So I have learned to, you know, to put them
somewhere else and deal with them in the morning. How
do you do. That is that meditation? No, I don't meditate.
I don't meditate. I just realized that I literally visit.
I visually have a shelf. It's a visual shelf, and
I put all the different things in different boxes, and
I put it on the shelf. And if I sometimes
(14:28):
it falls off the shelf, and then if my husband
says not now, or I don't know what to do
with it, I visually put it back on the shelf.
I know it's going to be there in the morning.
That's a version of meditation, and I love it because
it's not like counting out from my head. Yeah, and
a vodka on the rocks, you know, in the evening
helps me, you know, let go of certain things. Yeah.
(14:50):
Never before have I really been into the book until
the lockdown all of a sudden, favorite thrink. It's so funny.
So tell me a little bit of what is different
about milk makeup and what was important to you to
make it a different kind of a brand. I mean
so many things. I think from from day one, you know,
we talk we're obviously vegan, UM cruelty free, parabin free,
(15:17):
UM clean. You know, all those things were very important.
Was because we knew our consumer, the person I mentioned before,
he's floating around milk, also had high demands, you know,
and we wanted to reimagine what beauty could be. You know,
it could be cool and clean, it could have great
ingredients and still epic payoff at the same time. Um.
You know, and you mentioned something about the the non gender,
(15:40):
the gender language. We never put that in marketing. You know.
Our first campaign was featured a whole spectrum of gender identification,
and we didn't it was a moot point. We didn't
even make any deal out of it. You know, it's
empowered women, trans models, and straight men wearing makeup. Um.
I think someone actually called the anti marketing at the time.
Not and they were in the company. Um, but it
(16:02):
was exactly what we stood for and is exactly what
our community wanted, and they were being underrepresented at the time,
so we went full throttle on that. Um. Everything about
it is very utilitarian as well. That was something I
was very keen on having, you know, fast makeup, makeup
that you could do quickly in the back of a cab,
makeup to save time in the mornings, as smart as
(16:24):
your iPhone, you know, stuff that just did the job.
Did it well. I always say, we're very innovative and
in concept, creative in spirit and utilitarian and use and
you're when you launched it was exclusive with Sephora, correct,
it was yes. Um, we pitched to Sapara. We didn't
(16:45):
even have a product. Okay, crazy, We flew all the
way to San Francisco. Um, we met them in there.
You remember them meeting so clearly. We had so much
passion and a great deck and all these ideas and
zero products. Um. But they saw the white space immediately. Um.
They realized very very they were very smart, and they said, look,
(17:06):
if you couldn't create the products that you're talking about, them,
weren't And how long was you're exclusive? We're still exclusive
today in the US? You are? Yeah, So you have
a director consumer side. We do. We have directed consumer. Um.
We're also now in Um we're in the Middle East
with them as well. Um. We're also now in the
(17:27):
UK with self ages and cult beauty. Ah, there's no
Sophora in the UK. No that. I think they tried
it a long time ago and then it didn't work,
which was so strange to me. And tell me what
is wrong with bees wax that they don't kill the
bees to get the bees wax. But is that not
a vegan Yeah, it's not. It's it's not credited, so
(17:49):
we are we're renting the beeswax because of our chrishimascara. Yeah,
so we UM we wanted to create a mascara that
was super nourishing as well. UM notoriously had to create
a vegan scar because these waxes the um traditional binding
agent in it. So it was Diana Ruth, who's who
I mentioned to our co founder and her team, who
(18:11):
then came up with the idea of using hemp drive
cannabis seed oil extract um. And it is the perfect
alternative because it's super As I said, it's super conditioning.
It's like a hair mask for your lashes. It comes
off east if you don't have the tug when you're
pulling and you're taking your makeup off at the night,
but you don't get the fall out in the day.
It's it's been a complete game change. It's super best seller.
(18:35):
And it's not it doesn't smear, no, because it's moisturizing. No.
I know. That's what's so strange about the consistency of it.
It doesn't it's kind of whipped so it doesn't smear.
It's creamy, but it's whipped, so it's not like it's
something that's oozing down your face. She's never Yeah, But
then what keeps you up at night? Like about the
(18:56):
products the company? Like what you know, all of us
entrepreneurs have anks, that's what we do. I suppose it's
there's so many things we have to yet do. The
ideas that go through your brain. I mean, sustainability is
a big one. How can we all become more sustainable? Um?
That that right now is a major focus, and you know,
and being with our community more than ever. You know,
(19:17):
we've always had a philanthropic angle. We've always worked with
you know, lgbt Q, we worked with the Center, We've
always donated, but it's now it's like, how can we
be even more active in that space? Um? And thankfully
we've got a great team fully behind us with that.
So it's been an interesting few months, but we've all
learned so much and we've got we really do have
an epic team. Like zooming all them all once a
(19:40):
week and seeing everyone who's just so invested and just
really believes in the brand. Is you know what It's
like it's it's the most powerful thing. You underestimate the
power of that when you find a company. You know,
And what's the biggest surprise to you about being owning
a beauty brand like that? You had no clue. You
(20:00):
said this, You've said it today. We were so naive.
We had no idea, no idea. I mean, if we'd
have known the amount of everything it would take, I
don't know if we'd have done it. I really don't know.
Rassie says this all the time. It's like, I just
don't know. I mean, I'm so glad we did, but
I'm also really glad we didn't know everything before. So
(20:20):
you're still on Glad Masters. Is that still on TV?
It's not right now. But it was such a fun
show to do. It was myself, um Levine Cox was
the host, Kim Kardashian West was the producer, makeup. I
Mario was the one of the panelists, as with Candy Johnson,
and you know, we were there day and night for
(20:42):
six weeks. It was It was an intense shoot, but
we became really really close. It was great. It was
such a fun experience. And do you think it'll be back?
I hope. So in some form it has to be back,
you know. I think things like that as well would
suit digital so well, right now, um, it was a
linear show, but yeah, and some way shape of fall,
(21:02):
I hope it will return. And because you meet so
many of the other founders, I'm sure you know Rihanna
and Selena and all these other your competition, we were
talking about how people are very supportive of each other.
Isn't it wonderful? I just yeah, it feels like it
never used to be like that. As you know, we
were saying that today it's like the sharing of information,
(21:24):
of ideas, of context. I know someone who can help
you with this. Let me put you in touch with
this person. What about this This is a great idea,
Well that's not a great idea, like literally like being
each other's consultants. And you're one of the founders of
the secret society that we're part of that that our
friend Mage put together. It's called I always get it wrong,
it's called Beauty United, Beauty United, and it's all the
(21:46):
founders that talk about the different things that are happening.
And this is since COVID, so one of the best
things about being you know, home is we've been able
to connect on zoom because we never would have done
this one time, even together, not one time. And we're
so many into it now. This is yeah, a dent
one of those amazing silvil linings. Those come from this.
(22:06):
People are very giving to each other, you know, like
I need a distributor, I need this, I need this
package person. It's it's really really cool. It's totally not
to mention the gift back that's happened for you know,
we all did the Beauty United video together. Immediately when
it all went down, We're like, we need to do
a video, we need to raise some money. All of
the groups, all of the companies involved gave so much
(22:30):
to relief funds to frontline responders. I mean, the Frontline
respond To fund went up in excess of ten million. Now,
all working together and making things happen, and we were
able to donate to all the you know, people working
the front lines, and you know, pretty pretty amazing. I'm
proud to be part of it. So Zana, this um,
(23:01):
this podcast is called Beyond the Beauty, But I want
to hear from you what beauty means to you? What
does beauty mean to me? I mean It might be
so cliche, but it's to be really truly happy in
your own look. I had to be able to live
your own look mantras, live your look and milk. And
it's for a reason because I think when you know
your own look, you're not trying to be someone else,
(23:24):
and with that comes so much like confidence and presence
and power, and that to me is beautiful. And you
are clearly a beautiful girl, a beautiful woman. What do
you do when you don't feel beautiful? Oh? Go and
see um, Go get a fake chat, get have own track.
(23:47):
Sleep That sleep is my major tool, like if my
whether I look bad, doing bad, and being unproductive, it's
it's always a direct color relation into how much sleep
I've had. It's ridiculous, it's annoying. I wish I could
be one of those people who could just thrive on five.
(24:07):
I was sleep at night, but no, do you have
trouble sleeping? Um? When I wake up in the middle
of the night, and it's always the work. It's always
like the ideas or the stress of something coming up.
And it will always be before a big day as well,
which is most annoying, like before the office, and then
I'm just lay there like god sleep. Um. Do you
(24:29):
do you have any good sleeping tips, Bobby, I feel
like you might. You know what. I make sure I
have melotona near my bed because even it stays in
your body only three hours, I think, so yeah and yes.
And by the way, sometimes if you eat, I take
it and I instantly go to sleep. So my body
(24:49):
doesn't need it, my mind needs it. And I've also
found the magnesium at night. UM helps It helps all
your muscles relax, so your brain is a muscle, so
it helps my brain relax. Wonderful. What is it? What's
your daily skincareater? I'm rapid, like we've not got time
(25:09):
to be luxuriating in the bathroom, I'm afraid, but shower. Um.
I throw on Vegan milk moisturizer, which is our vegan
milk moisturizer. It's super rich. I was put on straight
when my skin still damp out the shower. Um. It's
it's very rich, but it's not greasy, so I'm jobbed
straight away. Um. And then I go with Sunshine skin tint,
(25:31):
which is very quick moisturizing shit tin with an SPF
fifteen in it. Matt Bronze stick one about o G
sticks quick quick tann intent I call it kushmascara and
a bit of a cush lit bump and I'm done.
And what about your hair? What are your beauty go
to products? Christoph Robin overly bleached situation. I definitely have
(25:54):
braids in this morning because now it's just like too
to that's if I don't have to put heat on it,
I will not. And what about what are your beauty robbers? Like?
What are the things that you're like? I'm doing it anyways.
I know it's not going to be a pretty day tomorrow.
I mean the affoe mentioned vodka or tequilagnas is there's
(26:16):
a little bit of a weak spot. Um. And the sleep,
I mean, it's so I wish I had better tips
than those like that. It's so obvious. But yeah, those
bad habits die hard. Well what about your health habit?
I don't do loads and loads of cops because it
just doesn't make me feel good. I just feel bad,
(26:37):
I mean instantly, Like I think I've probably made myself
gluten intolerant because I know I cut it out a
long time ago. Um, and then when it comes to
work out, I'm really into YouTube hoem videos of this
this girl, um Pamela Reef. I only discovered this joined
the lot down German model. But she does the most
(26:59):
precise ice workout, so like ten minutes and you can
choose your body parts literally bum ab ums, so precise
thirty seconds on each exercise and you move and it's
just great music. She was as good outfit on It's like, okay,
this is easy. Um, but yeah, I'm not running any
marathons anytime soon. Put it away. Ah And one one
(27:22):
last question, how do you shut it off because you've
got two children or three children? Have twin girls then
now six years old? Um, I shut it off by
spending time with them. We were like family meals, best
cooking a great dinner, sitting around around the table. We
(27:42):
all had a camp fire the other night. Like those
moments you can't possibly think about work when you're in
it and they're just running around being crazy and fun
and that that's my that's my go to place. They
must be a really good focus group for your makeup.
Oh my god, you should. At six we're all vegan
and clean because they can use it all they want. Well,
(28:05):
thank you so much for making the time taking the
time to talk to me. It's so nice, Bobby. Thank
you for having me. This podcast is so good. By
the way. Ah well, I'm here for you anytime, so much.
All right, Well, thanks go kiss those kids being the moment,
Bye bye. Thanks Bobby. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio,
(28:29):
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!