May 16, 2023 • 52 mins
In light of Fox settling with Dominion, we take a look back at an episode about Fox News and disinformation. Host Roy Wood Jr., correspondent Desi Lydic, and senior producer Matt Negrin discuss the digital series Desi Lydic Foxsplains, and how right-wing news outlets spread misinformation. They’re joined by CNN’s senior media reporter, Oliver Darcy, who breaks down why Fox News is so successful in pushing its dangerous narratives.
Watch the original segments:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeskMkEaHJYdOXvRtkfk74voH5F_hstsv
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, it's Roy Wood Junior. Beyond the Scenes is taking
a break this week, so we're taking a minute to
revisit one of our favorite episodes about what it means
to Fox Splain. In this episode, I sit down with
Daily Show Correspondent Desi Lightick, senior producer Matt Nagrin, and
cing in senior media reporter Oliver Darcy. We discussed the
viral digital series Desi Lightik, Fox Splains, the rapid spread
(00:21):
of misinformation and right wing media, and we break down
why Fox News and other outlets are so successful at
pushing misleading and conspiratorial narratives. Have a listen, welcome back
to Beyond. That's not the name of the show.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
What are we telling again?
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I said, welcome back?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Like, what did we just do a segment?
Speaker 1 (00:50):
You know what, Let's just keep that, Let's keep rolling. Then,
damn it. Welcome to Beyond the Scene. I'm Roywood Junior.
That's Daily Show Correspondent Desi Lighted and Senior Digital Expansion
Emmy winning the nominated producer Matt Hagrin.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Just go ahead and edit the title as you reach me.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, we are talking this week about a beautiful, beautiful
segment that our digital team. It started as a digital
segment and eventually expanded to the actual linear broadcast. It's
called Fox Plains. Now a little bit later in the show,
we're going to be joined by a senior media reporter,
Oliver Darcy from CNN. But first, let's roll the clip.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I've been watching Fox News for one hundred and fifty
three hours straight, so I can give you the lowdown
on what's already considered to be the most corrupt presidency
in the history of the United States. If you thought
Obama wearing that tan suit was disgraceful, and Jesus knows
I did, where do you get a load of this?
Let's take stock of Joe Biden's Americ Doctor Seuss illegal,
doctor Fauci, promoted doctor Schulz, so company, Doctor Quinn Medicine
(02:00):
Women hasn't been on TV since nineteen ninety eight. Is
this the country we want to leave to our strange
children to.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Talk about what it means to Foxplain Deisi. Matt, welcome
to beyond the scenes. Matt. I'll start with you first,
because I would say of everybody in our building, and
I've tried to explain the way the daily show works
to people as this behive of people that all have
different interests and responsibilities. You are the guy in the
(02:27):
building that watches all the news.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
That's horrible thing.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
It's not even your department. It's not even your department,
not even my job, but you watch it all. You
watch Fox, MSNBC, CNN. I'm pretty sure you watch Black
News Channel at this point. You watch Cheddar? Is that
the one Cheddar?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Millennials Web only a lot of Scheddar, a lot of
Pluto TV, a lot of Christian Broadcast Network. There there
is pack still on PAX is there? Yeah, we got packs. Also,
there's a there's a really nice New Mexico correspondent I
dig so I kind of I got a little hook
of the IT guy gave me a VPN that I
can watch New Mexico local news whenever I need to. Yeah,
(03:13):
all that stuff straightened my eyeballs.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
That is true. He watches more than anybody at the show,
hands down.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
So where did this idea come from? That? Uh, in
any way suggesting that it was your idea?
Speaker 3 (03:25):
No, the we started doing these Fox Blains things with
Michael Costa, another correspondent, and then one day he was
unavailable and we were like, oh, DESI can do it,
and DESI has done it ever since.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
It's like the alternate who was just like waiting for
my chance to get it. I was just sitting on
the bench waiting for someone to get sick or underperform,
like have another gig. Tom Brady gets salivating.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Tom Brady is Tom Brady because Drew Blitze got hurt
during a game.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
So never forget DESI is our Tom Brady. Okay, I
don't know how much this metaphor is gonna hold up.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I am nodding, like I know what you're talking about,
but I am not a sports person.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Our producer who runs Ramin, who runs the expansion department
says that as he taking over from Foxplanes was the
best scheduling conflict of all time, So I think I
agree it worked out great. The idea of it, if
that's what you were actually asking, was that we felt
that like Fox was getting crazier and crazier, like not
only just in the election, but also after the election, Like,
come on, this stuff about it wasn't It was beyond
(04:31):
hydroxy chloro queen. It was beyond like covid is fake.
It was like going into the craziest darkest places. I
remember there was one day when during the election they
were talking Fox News was talking about Joe Biden and
Ukraine and like the Barisma thing, and they were like,
what about John Carrey's nephew, what about Whitey Bulger's cousin?
(04:54):
And I was like, is this real or not? And
so we made a list of things like that that
were like Malia Obama's Spotify playlist, like things like that
that would make no sense at all, Eric Holder's Venmo account, whatever,
And we were like, oh, this, we should just put
this in a list and have someone just be like,
(05:14):
this is the problem.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
What about Bill Clinton's g chat history, Chelsea Clinton's iPod
Acorn diamonds. They're all in on it, Biden Clinton, the
Steele dossier Australia of course, what about Eric Holder's Hulu password,
Malia Obama's Venmo history, Oh.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Hey, jay Z visitor logs, fake birds.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
And then that generally expanded to larger sentences. And then
when we did this with Desi, it was like, We're
just gonna pretend Dezie's been watching Fox News for six
days straight and is now explaining to you what is
on Fox, Because let's be honest, nice. Our audience is
not watching Fox for good reason, the number one reasons,
like they care about their mental health and it will
probably destroy you if you do.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
DESI who is this character that you played? And I
think that's the thing that well, well, I have two questions.
But first to you, who is this character that you're presenting.
Who is this news viewer that you believe watches Fox
for six six days straight?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Well, I kind of, I guess I look at it
like it's my own correspondent character having been subjected to
a deeply unhealthy amount of Fox News binge watching. Basically,
we started it somewhere around like I've been been binge
watching Fox News for seventy two hours, and then I
(06:28):
think it became seven days straight with no bathroom breaks
and has like escalated ever since. And I, you know,
I love that because when I first auditioned for The
Daily Show. I know we've traded stories on our audition
pieces before, but my original you know, you write a
(06:48):
piece and you perform that piece for the audition, and
the piece that I wrote at the time, and this
was back in twenty fifteen, was a version of like
a hybrid of Megan Kelly and Gretchen Carlson and all
of the Fox News blondes that I was watching at
the time, Right, yeah, I know that did not age. Well,
(07:11):
it's Desi Dasi leidik Okay Care expands on that. Well,
I'm a Stanford graduate, i have multiple degrees, I speak
nine different languages, one fourteen different beauty pageants. I'm a
proficient puppeteer as Celiac survivor.
Speaker 6 (07:26):
No, no, I meant to expand on your view.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Oh no, no, it's self evident. At that time, I
kind of was like, I thought that that was going
to be my lane. And then very quickly after we
started in twenty fifteen and Trump came to the front
of all of this, and then he became the nominee
and then the president, we really quickly realized like, oh,
(07:52):
there's a bigger beast here in the picture, and we
have other things to be talking about. So I'm grateful
that I was necessarily cornered into that specific character. But
ever since then, we were kind of looking for a
way to embody the madness and the mania without completely
betraying our correspondent characters. And this felt like a really
(08:14):
cool container to put that in because it is a feeling,
right when you watch Fox News.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Oh, it's a feeling, all right, It's one very specific feeling.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I like the segment because it's it's kind of dozy
to me, Matt. Seems like what would happen if you
followed every bread crumb and you said yes to every
possible thing that was ever suggested or presented, and you
somehow start connecting all of these nonsensical dots, Like in
a way, it's the it's the Randy Quaid character and
(08:46):
Independence Day, who's trying to explain the alien that comment? Like,
considering that it's a digital segment, and I think this
is the part that's really cool about it because when
we were in unpressed at times and these uncertain times, yes,
back when The Daily Show first was wading into those
(09:06):
unprecedented times, we were doing you know, we already do
a lot of digital content on the show. But talk
to me a little bit, Matt about like, what are
the different creative freedoms that you have, because in digital
we don't have the constraints of time, nor do we
necessarily have to follow a narrative that ties into something
that Trevor is talking about on that particular night.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
And also the way that I mean this makes me
a little bit sad because I think quarantine has or
working from home I should say, has taken a lot
of the energy out of that feeling of like I
need to run down to like Desi and Roy's office
and be like, can we do something real quick on
this on my phone right now?
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Okay? So then to that point, Matt, you're running all
over the building, but then you can't because COVID forty
three is finally here. How did that change how you
all produce these types of segments At first?
Speaker 3 (09:58):
I think when we were all kind of like, oh,
we got to do stuff from home, a lot of
people are like, oh, this is gonna be weird, And
Fox Plains was one of the things where we were like,
this is actually perfect because part of like part of
being on this expansion team kind of like a digital
team with a little bit more, is that we are
able to do things in a truly different way. That
(10:19):
is it sounds like corporate to be like digital first,
but like at the time, TikTok was getting really popular
and we were seeing like a lot of things on
Instagram and even on Twitter that were like people holding
up their phones and just kind of recording themselves and
being like, I got to get this off my chest.
So for me that was like really for our whole team,
it was like, let's do that sort of stuff. And
Fox plaines became DESI has to grab her phone and
(10:41):
start talking immediately about what she just heard Janine Piro
say to Sean Hannity, because this is out of this world.
I remember there was one night, I think it was
before as you might remember this, I think it was
before a debate, and it was this like there was
this conspiracy theory about how Joe Biden at an ear
piece he was getting transmitted. There was like a this
(11:04):
was a Fox News, this conspiracy sperience. Yes, he was
getting the answers fed the answers right, because everyone knows
that's exactly what that's what you need to get the
edge in a presdential debate. And like Sean Hannity or
someone someone was like pushing this on Fox News. The
Trump campaign was pushing it. Brett Behar was even like, yeah,
that's a really interesting thing. And so like I remember,
I grabbed my phone and I filmed myself doing like
(11:27):
a Fox Blaine's like proof of concept, and I was like,
this is like, is anyone talking about the earpiece? And
I like I remember getting down on it on my
knee and I was like, it's coming from Colin Kaepernick
kneeling raising his fist to transmit the signal, and then
like sent that over to Desi, and like DESI just
like did it and like did her own thing and
like sent that back and like we probably did it
(11:48):
in an hour, which was like awesome for we don't
need you know, we did. We didn't need to be
in the studio, we didn't need to have all this
like preparation that went into it. Was just like this
is like happening right now. Let's get it out before
the and we did. Joe Biden is wearing an ear piece.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
How can you tell? Because one ear is bigger than
the other. The ear piece is making it bigger.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
That's why he wears the mask to cover it up.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
It's a cover up. Where's the earpiece getting the transmission.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
From Colin Kaepernick. He's on his knee with his.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Fist up to transmit the signal to me.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
That was kind of the benefit of working from home
and embracing that sort of phone culture which has like
just shoved all of this, like people screaming and yelling
into our faces, and instead of returning to a more
civilized discourse, we were like, let's make it louder and
embrace it.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
I think it's one of those segments like Roy, we've
had to adapt to shooting from home, and so many
of the pieces you feel like, oh, I'm missing something
because I'm not out in the world, or we don't
have a professional cinematographer to get dynamic shots, and you
feel like you kind of miss a little something. But
this one, in particular, almost feels like the messiness of
(13:01):
the camera work and getting a little too close sometimes
and getting all hopped up actually works to feed the
emotion of it, because it's like I had to get
this off my chest. I don't have enough time to
get into a professional studio and share this. I've got
to grab my phone right now.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
So do you remember there was one we were doing.
I don't remember which one it was, but like you
got really into the like getting close to the camera
and you were like, should do one that's closer, should
do one that's closer. Like it basically got you like
your lips are like right up on the camera and
you were like, how many cuomos are there or whatever.
It's like, but it's like all you can see is
her face, and it's like, yeah, no, I've watched like
(13:37):
internet videos of people and like that's kind of what
it is.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
So yeah, yeah, my our poor viewers have have gotten
way too close into my mouth. They probably no more
information than my own dentist about the health of my teef.
I apologize for that.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Who was the one that said Major League MLB is
just bling back?
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Yeah? Yeah, Eric, So like, yeah, we did a Fox
planes with Desi where she said this is when Major
League Baseball took the All Star Game away from Georgia
because of their voter suppression law, and Desi's line was,
if you think about it, MLB is just BLM backwards.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
I know three things. One conservatives are pro business, Two
conservatives are pro freedom of speech, and three conservatives need
to destroy these businesses for opening theirmals. You thought Major
Biden was bad for this country, major League Baseball moved
the All Star Game out of Atlanta. MLB is just
BLM backwards.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
And like a week later, we were watching Eric Bowling,
who technically is a Fox emeritus okay for the fact
checkers out there, for the Daniel Dale's out there, for
the Glenn Kessler's out there, But he did used to
work at Fox and now he's like at Newsmax. So
he said, when you think about it, MLB is really
(14:51):
BLM backwards.
Speaker 6 (14:53):
MLB is backwards for BLM.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
And we were like, did we do this or so?
Or are we so in the mind of these psychos
that they made the connection that we thought was dumb,
and they were like, this is genius.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Do you Is there a joke that you think is
too ridiculous now, DESI where you look at it and
you just go, no, that that's that's a good.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
One, Like that was one of them. At the time,
I was like, oh, this is insane, and then come
to find out he said it, so yeah, I guess not.
I mean I think that's like That's what I love
so much about this segment is it really is about
embodying a feeling of just like woman on the verge
(15:41):
running on pure adrenaline, conspiracy theory and like, uh, you
know it's maybe a little bit of hypermectin. Uh and
then yeah, and then and then sprinkling in those little
personal anecdotes like I've been kicked out of Whole Foods
more times than any black person that I know, or like, uh,
(16:02):
you know, my husband's left me, or my children won't
talk to me. How can America be racist if it
was the liberals who fired a hard working black woman
from her job as a syrup bottle. This is the
country of African American legends, Martin Luther King, Junior Rosa
Park Nacklemore. If our country is racist, how do you
explain that I have been kicked out of whod food
more than any black.
Speaker 7 (16:21):
Person ever has.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
I feel like we did work in a narrative that
was like slowly every episode another member of Desi's family leaves,
and this episode's very clear, this one's driven royal family only.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah, she got problems, do you?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
And Here's the thing that I think a lot of
the correspondent to deal with from time to time on
the show is the real world interactions with people after
you've done a particular piece, like I've done CP time
enough to where older black women will come thank you
baby for doing this. Yeah, the people A lot of
people didn't know about that black person. That's the hidden history.
(16:58):
Do you get more? I'm trying to think of a
polite way to ask you. Is it daily show fans
who get it, or do you run into more Fox
fans who don't and think you're on the team, so
to speak.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
I will I will say with I will say with
this one in particular, it's it's hard to tell because
this came about during the pandemic. So I have not
left my house because the show keeps making me binge
watch Fox News and we've been on lockdown.
Speaker 8 (17:36):
No.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
But I think that this is this is one that
most of the feedback has been people who have watched
enough Fox News to know that it's not for them,
and they appreciate that we captured something that it feels
like Fox sort of runs on. And I will also
say that I have family members that are avid Fox
News watchers and it's the one segment that they have
(17:58):
not brought up to me.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
They were like, she's getting too close to the secret.
We can't engage.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
With her, yo. That is we need to We need
to do a separate beyond the scenes and just correspondence
interactions with their family members.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Oh yeah, yeah, just a family reunions.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
It would be great if the people in your family
who do watch Fox end up talking to you, like
at Thanksgiving or whatever, and they're like, by the way,
have you heard that MLB is just bling backwards? And
you're like, I did that.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
After the break, we're gonna get a much more qualified
journalists in here. We're going to speak with Oliver Darcy
from CNN. This is beyond the scenes. I'm excited now
to bring on a guest who actually does this in
a more professional capacity. No disrespect to you, Dessi, whatsoever.
Oliver Darcy, he covers politics. He is a senior media
(18:55):
reporter for CNN and the program that he does now
know reliable sources where they really take a deeper look
into what's going on with a lot of these same
channels that Matt that you and DESI watch for research. Oliver,
welcome to be on the scenes.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Now you regularly as a professional journalist. Can I call
you that? I know a lot of people try to
dodge that title. Now now that you're not scared, you're
not scared to be proud and open journalists and these
challenging timessts Okay, you all cover a lot of the
(19:35):
misinformation and conspiracy theories that bounce around out there. When
did that turn Well, you know what, let's let's go
back in history with you first, when you used to
work with Glenn Beck over at the Blaze, where you
kind of swam in those waters professionally, and then eventually
you got over to seeing in and then you were
now the guy who takes a look back at that
(19:57):
same environment. How did you when did you decide to
make the transition? What was it exactly that was happening
in the world or with you personally?
Speaker 4 (20:06):
I think I started off there.
Speaker 9 (20:07):
You know, I was always conservative growing up, and so
when I was out of college, you know, working for
Glenn Beeck's conservative news site was sort of a was
a cool thing, and I was sold the promise that
they're going to do conservative news, but like do good
conservative news, you know, like there are a lot of
strong liberal websites out there, you know, Huffington Post is
(20:28):
a good example of this, but they do solid news. Unfortunately,
I think a few years into that, I realized maybe
that's not exactly what they really wanted to do, and
so I made a jump over to a business insider.
Now I'm at CNN, But it has given me an
interesting perspective because I am very familiar with a lot
(20:51):
of the key players in the conservative news media. I
know a lot of them still I talk to them,
and it's allowed me, I think, to really succeed on
this beat.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
When you see something like you know, Desi of course
is playing a character. Yeah, but when you see people
in the real world out there, you know, I won't
say quite tenfoil hat with it with their beliefs. But
when you see people you know, basically going yeah, the
vaccine and lizard people and you know, Hillaries emails and
(21:23):
Joe Biden's son sold me crack last night. Like when
you when you see that type of stuff, what does
it make you feel with regards to what conservative media
has become.
Speaker 9 (21:35):
Well, Desi's segments are very funny until you realize that
there are so many people who actually have those views
and have have been told these things and believe them.
And so I think it's you know, it's incredibly alarming,
and I don't I don't know how we actually solve
this problem because there are these incentives from whether it's Facebook,
(22:00):
social media or just you know, Fox News or talk
radio or whatever it is, there are these incentives to
put these things out there. To mislead other people to
give them what they want. The field good content, the
red meat that really fires up the base. And I'm
not really sure how we get out of it. So
when I see people on television, you know, I was
watching Jordan Clapper, for instance, went to that New York
(22:21):
City anti vaccine rally recently.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
It's funny because and I said, no, no, thank you.
Speaker 9 (22:29):
He's funny, But like, it is incredibly disturbing because these
people have been sold to bill of goods from these
dishonest actors who you know, in many cases might not
even believe this stuff that they're actually selling. You know,
we know, for instance, that in the Fox control room
as they're producing these anti masks segments now they're all
wearing masks right the New York Post as they put
(22:52):
out these anti mask things and say you guys should
repeal your mask mandates. They're required to wear masks at
the office. And so when you know these things, it
is frustrating as hell.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Oliver. You can probably even connect A to B on
some of these things, because on Fox they talk about, like,
do we really think the vaccine is safe? It might
give you fertility problems six months down the road who
knows and then the people in the Klepper segment are
saying the exact same things, so you know where they're
getting this, and it's there's no longer this like hypothetical
that's like is it bad that Fox is doing this
or is it just kind of fun? It's like no,
(23:23):
it's actually horrible. These people are absorbing it and repeating
it out immediately. From your perspective, that must be like, yeah,
this is the most obvious thing to see.
Speaker 9 (23:32):
It's actually really frustrating too. When we talk about like
misinformation or people with vaccine hesidency. Every story almost that
talks about vaccine hesitancy should mention Fox News. Right, It's
like a very clear thing that's going on. It's not
rocket science to make these connections. Yeah, but like there
are so many people who who just don't want to
I guess maybe they viewed Fox as a I don't
(23:53):
know what it is, but they just don't want to
go there.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
And you don't hear that.
Speaker 9 (23:56):
And actually, Facebook, you know, they get a lot of
you know, they get a lot.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
Of blowback and they should get a lot of criticism.
Speaker 9 (24:03):
But you can at least make the argument that Facebook
is doing something to kind of clean up their their platform,
whereas Fox is like intentionally profiting off of anti vaccine
rhetoric right, Like, they are doing some really really terrible
things to society, and and they actually end up getting.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
A pass a lot of the time. It's it's really strange.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
I agree that, Yeah, DESI when when Oliver is talking about,
you know, like the people that Klipper are talking to,
who are obviously drinking the kool aid that's being served
up at these right wing spots, is there a smidge
of sympathy for people who have bought this horse, the
people that you parody. Is there any sympathy in that
(24:48):
or is it just this what they believe and we
just got to get the jokes.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
No, I think I have a lot of empathy for
people who are getting all of their information from this
one source that is peddling lies and untruths, and people
believe everything that they say. And in my opinion, one
of the scariest things about Fox News is that they
(25:13):
have a way of making you feel like it is
the only reliable source of information and you cannot trust
anywhere else. And that's that's scary. I mean, I Oliver,
you can speak to this better, but like that CNN.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Does it too. CNN. They even hired James Earl Jones
to make it feel like it's your father.
Speaker 6 (25:35):
Is CNN.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
I'll beat your ass if I get you listening to
another network. It's always a Every news network is a
deep voice, guy Oliver, where do you think this politically?
I'll tell you where I think and you tell me
you from right or wrong? The politicization of the news
and like this debate culture to me in Nayrid, I
know you watched this show too. I think it all
(25:58):
goes back to debate culture on ESPN, like mid to
late nineties, where I feel like, if I'm not mistaken,
I feel like sports kind of did. I mean there
was there was crossfire and Tucker calls and whatnot, but
James Carville. But I really feel like this this era
where an opinion is ratings, but somewhere along the way,
(26:21):
we the viewer mistake opinions for facts and research.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
Well, I think you need to separate, for one, opinions
with propaganda, right like we know, Like I think I
think it's fine if Fox wants to have the conservative
you know, a person who's you know, giving their their
opinion on the news and it's based in fact. I
think that's that's totally fine. That's that's part of the
healthy political system. You know, you're the conservative, maybe here
(26:47):
the liberal. You hear someone else and you make up
your mind. The issue here is that they're not doing
that right. They're just inventing things out of thin air
that support their guy. Like it's it's a sustained propaganda
effort on behalf of these people to keep.
Speaker 9 (27:03):
Them watching this channel. And so I think that that's
the issue. They're not playing by any facts or any rules.
They're just out there and it's really, you know, a
truth versus fiction sort of thing. So I think maybe
the cable news culture may have been born out of
ESPN out you know, cable news was around long before
you know, I started covering it. But the new phenomenon
(27:27):
where Fox is just totally detached from reality, I think
I'm not really sure where that comes from. Maybe Matt
has some ideas, but it's new. That's that's new within
the last I think even five years.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
Yeah, I definitely think the complete one hundred false propaganda
stuff came right at the end of like the second
half of the Trump campaign. Basically after he got the
nomination and then it became like, oh, none of these
allegations about him as sexual assaulting women are true. Obviously
that's not true. This man is perfect. And once you
across that line, it's like cool, everything is everything that's
(28:04):
true is now false. It's surreal to see it like
become I know that I can turn on Fox at
any point between seven and ten PM and I won't
hear something true. And that's absolutely crazy because even six
years ago you could turn it on and hear something
that was like bad, but you weren't guaranteed to get
something that wasn't true. On the cable news culture thing.
(28:27):
I know, this is like you know this is part
of your home too, but like there's a lot of
this element I think what Rory was talking about with
like going back and forth, like a sports show. You know,
NBC has Meet the Press, they have these panels that's
like Rich Lowry is on there, Like that's not great.
ABC has Sarah Izger and Chris Christy, that's not great.
Like CNN hired Kaylee mcananey though, like these people were
(28:48):
were not good people, but they were allowed they were
getting paid to essentially say things that were not true,
and I'm not I don't want to put I'm not
putting on the spot by saying, ah, it is bad
that we did that. I'm just pointing out there is
a problem with, as you said, not separating opinion versus propaganda.
It's totally fine to have someone a conservative on a
(29:11):
news channel and be like, I actually think we should
privatize blank, and then the liberal says, actually, it's more
efficient if we run it like this and let the
viewer decide that does not exist. There is no channel
that does that accurately right now, because the Republican Party
has moved all the way into misinformation and propaganda. So
all of those people who are bad actors are now
(29:31):
when they're presented as people who just have opinion, that's
misleading and they should be labeled as completely false. None
of this is true. Why are they even in the
first place.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
So then, so then to that point, Matt and Daisy,
you can chime in here if you like as well.
If the Republican Party has decided to entrench themselves in
a lot of lives for the sake of popularity and
staying connected to the base, or in Fox News's case,
to keep the ratings going. You got to sell with
the people. You got to show people what they're buying
and they want right now. They won't lie, so you
(30:01):
show them lies. The other side of that coin, though,
is as a news organization, if you're ABC or NBC
or CNN, do you just not have anyone on from
that side of the line if most of the popular
people that are going to be bringing ratings are also
bringing lies? Is it I can't believe I'm saying this.
(30:21):
Is it fair and balanced.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
To ten lawyers running into your house?
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Is it fair and fair and morally equitable? Haha?
Speaker 4 (30:34):
Lawyers?
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Is it fair and balanced to do that? Or do
you just have on the Republicans who are still more
centrist for the sake of having a balanced newscast, knowing
that it won't get you the same ratings and then
your show can get canceled.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Jeez?
Speaker 6 (30:53):
That to me?
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Who wants to take.
Speaker 6 (30:56):
You?
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Guys are the ex No?
Speaker 1 (30:58):
No, I'm just asking mat because I know that I
know the issue is they're putting liars on and I
agree with you. Yeah, So then do you just not
have anyone from that side represent it within a debate?
Or do you get Republicans that don't move the needle,
that make the show less electric, which.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Themselves do you have them on and call them outa
in fact check them.
Speaker 9 (31:19):
Yeah, this is like the thing, right, I think in
general though like Matt probably might disagree with this, but
I think in general, though we've seen people move away
from having the Kaylee Mcaninees of the world on cable news, like.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
You generally do not see that sort of thing. I
do think it is.
Speaker 9 (31:38):
A thing that newsrooms discussed though, because you don't want
to shut off, you know, like you're saying, you just
don't want to shut off what someone who you know,
thirty percent of the country may think represents their views.
And I think there is actually something somewhat valuable when
you have someone like that on and you see their
narrative just totally fall apart under you know, some like
(32:01):
persistent questioning from like Jake Tapper, right like when when
he's doing an interview and their narrative just falls apart,
Like that's that's very valuable.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
And I think to just demonstrate around Route Center.
Speaker 7 (32:15):
President Trump told Bob Woodward the first week of February
that he knew the coronavirus could be spread through the
air and that it was more deadly than the flu.
But two weeks later, he said at a rally that
coronavirus was the Democrats new hoax. Is that acceptable to you?
Is that misleading the public?
Speaker 6 (32:34):
You're talking about the uh, the Woodward book?
Speaker 4 (32:37):
Yes, the Woodward book.
Speaker 6 (32:40):
Oh I can do is share with you my point
of view, Pamela. Uh, these these gotcha books don't really interest.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Me that much.
Speaker 7 (32:48):
He's on the record, He's on the record.
Speaker 6 (32:52):
These these gotcha books don't really interest.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Me that much.
Speaker 7 (32:56):
The bottom line is, he told Bob Woodward privately that
this was a deadly virus, in that it was airborne.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
Didn't the public?
Speaker 7 (33:05):
Didn't the citizens in your home state of Louisiana deserve
to know that as well, so that they could change
their behavior appropriately to protect themselves.
Speaker 6 (33:16):
Well. Number one, Pamla, I'm not going to repeat what
I just said, but all I can tell you is
what my personal experience has been.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
Number Two, let me say a word.
Speaker 6 (33:26):
About this infatuation in Washington with who said what to
whom I learned pretty quickly up.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
Here, Senator, I'm sorry, I'm not going to let you
do this.
Speaker 7 (33:35):
Okay, this is I understand there's so much politics right now,
we're two months away from an election, but this is
life and death.
Speaker 9 (33:43):
I think that's the proper way to do these things
is not to maybe, you know, just allow them to
come on and just share a point of view necessarily
that's factually inaccurate or not tethered to reality, but to
actually challenge them. I do think that we've seen, you know,
and I don't like making general remarks or white sweeping remarks,
but I do think generally the news media has moved
(34:03):
away from having you know, the Kayle's on, and if
they are going to have them on, really putting them,
you know, putting what they're saying under the microscope.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
It's interesting two days ago or yeah, two days ago,
Nicki Haley was on face the nation didn't get like
any pushback about anything she was saying about Afghanistan, even
though it was a lot of it wasn't bad faith.
But I do see your point. I think there are
no longer Kaylee Mcanany's getting paid by like cable news networks.
I think that's true. The point about pushing back is
(34:36):
like so important because how many people can actually do that,
like in reality I'll give you Jake Tapper, Pamela Brown,
I'll give you Jonathan Swan, I'll give you. I think
Meddi Hassan's really good. I mean, are there that many
people who are Terry Moran had a good interview with
Paris Dynard on ABC, where Paris would Paris Deynard is
(34:58):
a Trump supporter, would not say that Trump lost the election,
and Terry for four minutes was like, just say it,
just say he just say Joe Biden won, and Terry
Ryan was like, Joe Biden is the roy. We did
a video about this. You remember this, right, yeah?
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Like, yes, it's Republicans admit that Trump, Yes, Joe Biden
legitimately won the twenty twenty election, and yet a strange
phenomena has arisen from the mist Republican mouths are unable
to formulate these words. Watch this.
Speaker 8 (35:32):
Is it a legitimate election under our constitution and loss?
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Yes or no?
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Joe Biden is the president.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
The election was not stolen.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
Correct, Look, Joe Biden's the president.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Republicans seem to know that Joe Biden is the president,
but not how that happened. Do they think a stort
delivered Joe Biden to the White House? Do they think
he tunneled into the White House like some sort of
reverse Shaw check? Do Republicans believe in an immaculate inauguration?
Speaker 3 (36:07):
And so, like, well, that's good questioning. Those people should
be commended and just held up as examples of how
to interview these people. But the reality is that like
most people can't do that, or they choose not to
do that. And I think the difference between the debate
of should you have these people on versus leaving them
off comes down to are you gonna have them on
(36:27):
with people who know how to treat them? And I
don't think there's more than like six people who can
actually do that, So that creates this whole of just
bad interviews.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
On the other side of the break, I want to
get into that a little bit more with you, Oliver
and Desi. Oliver, I need you to help me and
Desi on how we can stop misinformation. First, what can
news media outlet to do to stop the spread of misinformation?
But more importantly, how can we stop the spread of
misinformation at the Thanksgiving table.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
We're going to solve all of that.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
We'll do that in a minute. Beyond the scenes, we've
been talking about the Fox playing segments that Daisy does
that shows the enhanced effects of watching way too much
cable news misinformation. Now, we were talking about this a little.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Bit by the way, Roy, when you're say enhanced, it's
like very enhanced interrogation techniques, like it is torture to
watch Fox News. It legitimately is.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
Zero dot thirty. It takes shit going on when we
talk about the misinformation, you know, Oliver, before the break,
Nigelan was talking about, you know you need reporters that
are gonna give that pushback. Is that the only thing
that can help stop this misinformation?
Speaker 9 (37:39):
I mean, there are a lot of things that can
help stop this misinformation. I think it really comes down
to large companies enabling this. And so it's difficult to
tackle because there's not just one like avenue that misinformation
is spreading on. So you have a talk radio avenue,
which is it's totally undercovered. There are so many people
who listen to talk radio for hours and hours a day,
(38:02):
and you have hosts that most people haven't heard of
who are are are spreading lies across the country, and
they're supported by companies like Premiere Radio Networks. And we
just never talk about premiere radio networks and how they
allow for this spread of misinformation and conspiracy theories and
they profit off of it. So there's there's that Avenue,
then there's Fox News that avenue, then there's you know,
even companies I asked companies at the beginning of the year,
(38:25):
like comcasts like AT and T my employer, technically, you know,
like Dish, why do you carry channels like o in
you know, why do you carry channels that spread vaccine
conspiracy theories, election conspiracy theories? And so you have those
those guys, you know, to some extent, responsible for beaming
these channels into the homes of millions of people across
(38:46):
the country. And then you obviously have social media platforms
which incentivize people to spread these lies by giving them
you know, if the more read me throughout there, the
more engagement you get and the more you're profile builds. Right,
And so there are so many different issues here when
we talk about the spread of this stuff. There are
(39:07):
a lot of directions to go, and that really actually
makes me extremely pessimistic and in terms of solving this.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
Because I saw a tweet from Jason and Brusi, who's
another media reporter at NBC. His tweet was like, Uh,
it's almost impossible to talk to someone who doesn't have
a family member who's been affected by misinformation at this point.
And I think that over the past like six months,
that has become clear to so many people that there
is someone out there in your family or in other
(39:36):
people's families, like in a way that is more extreme
than ever because of what Oliver was just saying. Talk
radio is like this thing that most of us don't
even think is real because we don't drive in New
York and so and we're not Republicans, so we don't
have that on It hits millions of people, and it's
way worse than what's on Fox. It's completely unchecked and
(39:56):
there's no accountability.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
When I used to do road trips as a stand
up Kim and how they do like like a midnight
to five am drive back to Birmingham. That shit is
the Wild West radio like alien shows, there's psychic shows,
and then there's politics somehow woven into all of that.
(40:18):
How do we connect with the family members that are
means that are kind of buying into this stuff? What's
your move?
Speaker 2 (40:27):
I it's I don't have the answer for that I
wish I did. I find myself in conversations that I
wish I didn't start, and I find myself having like
a really enlightening conversation sometimes with family members who have
a different set of beliefs. Fortunately, most of my family
(40:47):
members who are Republican and have watched Fox News or
do watch Fox News are of the belief that the
vaccine works and COVID is real and they're taking it seriously.
So thank god for that. But like, yeah, I try
(41:08):
to lead with under trying to have an understanding of
where they're coming from, and it's really hard to get
on the same page with someone who just believes the
information that they're being told and they're only trusting one source.
If you're only getting your information from one source and
(41:29):
everyone else is getting their information from somewhere else, you
can't you're dealing with a different set of facts. So
until you can acknowledge that there's not much.
Speaker 9 (41:40):
Growth, that's an issue too, because like, if we're having
a debate, right, we can agree that The New York
Times is probably an authoritative outlet that you know, establishes
basic facts. The issue is that if we're having a
debate with someone who watches Fox and listens to talk radio.
None of the authority of outlets are going to have
(42:01):
any sway with them. In fact, if the if C
and N reports something, they will probably be conditioned to think,
well that it's the opposite is true.
Speaker 4 (42:10):
And that's the issue. And this is actually where it
would be helpful if there was a.
Speaker 9 (42:15):
Trusted conservative news organization right that these people would understand
and or at least listen to. But sadly there really
isn't these days. The ones that were responsible I have
been haulowed out and they're just you know.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Right because of the economics of it. And see, and
that's the other part of it when we get into
the corporate capitalistic part of media, is that OAYN has
to one up Fox News if they're going to get there.
They like they not only are the Democrats lizards, but
their venomous.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
The lizards like they have to Well here at Fox,
we don't say they have venom in their lizard tongues. Okay,
we will not go that far.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Shut up, Sean, Hey, you're stupid. The venoms.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Bitten by Jensaki. You will die in six to nine
days from the venom that comes out of her teeth.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
There is no profitability and sensibility in media right now,
at least not from the right, and I think that's
probably one of the biggest issues, Oliver. Have you as
much as you are willing to share, What are your
interactions like with your family from then to now in
terms of your affiliations with media, the types of stories
that you cover. Do you get family members that are
(43:30):
like pull are you the one pulling family members to
the side or you or are you the one that
gets pulled to the side?
Speaker 4 (43:37):
You know, Actually, my family is not very political, so
I actually, you know, they they just think it's cool
that they have someone who's on CNN or wherever it was,
you know, so that that's the good news.
Speaker 9 (43:49):
But I do know a lot of people who who
have been sucked into this you know, alternate universe, and
it's I mean, it's really difficult to have commerce about politics,
and even now you know it's it's it's expanding beyond
politics because this is really a lifestyle choice and so
it can be extremely difficult to uh, just see eye
(44:12):
to eye on basic.
Speaker 4 (44:13):
Things at this point. And I wish there was a solution.
I wish there was an antidote or a vaccine for
this stuff, but.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
They probably wouldn't take it anyway.
Speaker 4 (44:20):
We wouldn't take it anyway exactly. I don't know. I
don't know what the answers are.
Speaker 9 (44:23):
I feel like I'm always the most pessimistic person in
the room because I think this stuff is is really
destroying American society. And I watch it every day. Matt
watches every day. DESI watches it every day. I don't
know if you watch it every day.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
But don't. I have a child. I watch.
Speaker 9 (44:40):
Well, it's when you watch it every day and you
know that these people are peddling, you know, total bullshit
like it is. It is very very aggravating, like I mean,
and there's only so many media reporters out there like that,
Like quite frankly, we cover Washington, DC, and we hold
those people to account a lot more than we hold
(45:02):
the Fox News is and the Ruper Murdocks to account.
And I think that I've been saying that needs to change,
like that is that just outdated. The Ruper Murdoch has
so much more power than some random congressman like Marjorie
Taylor Green, Like we need to be focusing, refocusing a
lot of the scrutiny onto the people who are actually
(45:22):
controlling the dialogue and incentivizing the Marjorie Taylor greens versus
just focusing on the surface issues.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
We have a clip of Fox News personalities saying some
horrible things about refugees just in the past few days
that I feel like is very similar to how like
Oliver's describing, like watching this stuff is like so enraging.
Speaker 8 (45:46):
Isn't really our responsibility to welcome thousands of potentially unvetted
refugees from Afghanistan.
Speaker 10 (45:52):
It is extraordinarily expensive to resettle a refugee in the
United States. Resettling in America, it's not about solving a
humanitarian crisis. It's about accomplishing an ideological objective to change America.
Speaker 8 (46:06):
If history is any guide, and it's always a guide,
we will see many refugees from Afghanistan resettle in our
country in coming months, probably in your neighborhood, and over
the next decade that number may swell to the millions.
So first we invade, and then we're invaded. It is
always the same.
Speaker 3 (46:23):
I feel like that's such a perfect example of like
white supremacy on Fox News that we do watch every
day and like it's it's hard to just watch it
and be like, got it, Okay, we are invaded? Uh huh,
got it? Why is this responsiblity?
Speaker 8 (46:34):
Got it?
Speaker 3 (46:35):
Like when you watch it, you're like, ah, there are
so many people who believe this. This is so like
I have to take breaks watching that stuff. And it's
not it's like it's truly not enjoyable to do.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
It's a couple of clips just then just make me
scared of the refugees. I was like, oh my goodness,
how much does it cost?
Speaker 4 (46:52):
That's the thing.
Speaker 9 (46:54):
If you were to watch, like if you took a
normal person, right, and someone who's smart and and apt,
like if you were to force them like DESI, you know,
theoretically does to just only watch this stuff and to
only consume this kind of content.
Speaker 4 (47:07):
Like it is very likely that they will start believing
this stuff. Like it's not it's it's very likely.
Speaker 9 (47:14):
Like and they can be a smart person outside of
of you know, politics, they may be like an engineer,
for instance, a really good math but when they're consuming
this this political stuff, like you can see how you
can see how the math works there, and that because.
Speaker 3 (47:27):
They sound so sure of themselves, yeah, like especially the
way that Tucker is like if history is any guide,
and it always is, and it's like, well, that's kind
of that's true, right, That's always.
Speaker 4 (47:38):
The favorite thing to do too. It's just to say
something and it always is, and I.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
Write about this, yes, of course, they also like are
putting all of this, like all of this false patriotism
around it in like the worst way, which obviously since
nine to eleven has been like kind of like slowly
throwing more flags in the background and everywhere. But it
makes you think like if you disagree with this, you're
like kind of on American And that gets the people
at Oliver's talking about these like people who maybe don't
(48:04):
watch a lot of news all the time, if they
watch it, they're like, why would they be saying that
if they were not patriotic, Like that's the that's how
you get those people in the middle, or people just
who aren't super aware.
Speaker 9 (48:14):
What people maybe don't realize is that like the Fox
News primetime lineup now is so much more extreme than
it was like ten years ago. Like you know, outside
of what you think about Bill O'Reilly, like he was
like not Tucker Carlson, Like Tucker Carlson is like mainlining
you know, talking points basically from info wars. Like this
stuff used to be relegated to really far weird corners
(48:37):
of the Internet, and now it's being sent to millions
of Americans nightly on Fox. And I just think people
don't maybe understand that, like the Fox News we're talking
about now is so much different than the Fox News
from ten years ago.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
What makes it so addictive for people? Because I know
people who will plan their entire day around Fox News programming.
Why why do people get sucked in in the way
that they do unlike other news platforms.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Yeah, I mean, I like dun Lemon, but I'm not like, hey,
I'll see y'all later. I gotta get home.
Speaker 6 (49:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 10 (49:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (49:17):
I think if you've been told the country is like
going to hell and there are people, you know, scary
people coming to invade the country, you know, and you
believe this stuff, which they've been conditioned to believe this
stuff over hours and hours and hours and days of programming,
weeks and years of listening to folks like this, Like
you think that the situation is very dire, and you
want to hear a truth teller like Tucker Carlson, like
(49:38):
it's it makes sense, right, like if you can get
very easily sucked into this universe where like you need
to know the truth and Tucker's the only one delivering
the truth, and it's like an extremely urgent situation.
Speaker 4 (49:50):
And that's sort of what it's like on Fox, right.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
That's exactly what I was going to bring up a
little earlier that in talking to other family members that
I don't see out of eye onolitically, what I've often
found is the consistent, the consistent, you know, thread between
all of them is some degree of fear and self
and self preservation. So I feel like my life is
(50:13):
not where it needs to be, and I feel like
this politician or this network has the solutions that will
make some of my problems go away. So that's what
I'm going to lock in on. And anything that you're
talking about, even if it's better for mankind, it might
not be good for me personally. So because of that,
screw everybody else, and I'm going to lock in and
watch this show. Like my family, you know, I have
(50:35):
people that you know they were working, you know well
through the pandemic and it was something that you know,
we didn't always My uncle this sounds crazy. My uncle
was still openly dating. And my uncle's vaccinated now and
he wear a mask, and I'm like, dude, you can't
just be out dating on a regular This is like
last summer. It's just going on dates. These are literal
(51:00):
strangers and a data is intimate to which my uncle
said and I quote, I wear a mask, but if
we have sex, I'm taking it off and we can
talk about that on a separate podcast.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
Originally a sex position, which is what.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
We could go on about this all day. But I
want to thank you Oliver for coming on and being
a part of this. Thank you so much. And I
will set the DVR for reliable sources on CNN and
damn it, it is Oliver time. Nagron.
Speaker 3 (51:34):
I'm excited to see that.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
As always. Matt, thank you, and Desi thank you as well.
If you want to watch desi segment that we've been
talking about here on the podcast so eloquently for the
last I guess almost an hour dailyshow dot com slash Beyond.
(51:57):
Listen to the Daily Show Beyond the Scene on Apple podcasts,
the iHeartRadio app, or wherever you get your podcasts. Want
to go even further beyond the Scenes. Check out the
video version of Beyond the Scenes on the Daily Shows
YouTube page.
Hey, it's Roy Wood Junior. Beyond the Scenes is taking
a break this week, so we're taking a minute to
revisit one of our favorite episodes about what it means
to Fox Splain. In this episode, I sit down with
Daily Show Correspondent Desi Lightick, senior producer Matt Nagrin, and
cing in senior media reporter Oliver Darcy. We discussed the
viral digital series Desi Lightik, Fox Splains, the rapid spread
(00:21):
of misinformation and right wing media, and we break down
why Fox News and other outlets are so successful at
pushing misleading and conspiratorial narratives. Have a listen, welcome back
to Beyond. That's not the name of the show.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
What are we telling again?
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I said, welcome back?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Like, what did we just do a segment?
Speaker 1 (00:50):
You know what, Let's just keep that, Let's keep rolling. Then,
damn it. Welcome to Beyond the Scene. I'm Roywood Junior.
That's Daily Show Correspondent Desi Lighted and Senior Digital Expansion
Emmy winning the nominated producer Matt Hagrin.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Just go ahead and edit the title as you reach me.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, we are talking this week about a beautiful, beautiful
segment that our digital team. It started as a digital
segment and eventually expanded to the actual linear broadcast. It's
called Fox Plains. Now a little bit later in the show,
we're going to be joined by a senior media reporter,
Oliver Darcy from CNN. But first, let's roll the clip.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I've been watching Fox News for one hundred and fifty
three hours straight, so I can give you the lowdown
on what's already considered to be the most corrupt presidency
in the history of the United States. If you thought
Obama wearing that tan suit was disgraceful, and Jesus knows
I did, where do you get a load of this?
Let's take stock of Joe Biden's Americ Doctor Seuss illegal,
doctor Fauci, promoted doctor Schulz, so company, Doctor Quinn Medicine
(02:00):
Women hasn't been on TV since nineteen ninety eight. Is
this the country we want to leave to our strange
children to.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Talk about what it means to Foxplain Deisi. Matt, welcome
to beyond the scenes. Matt. I'll start with you first,
because I would say of everybody in our building, and
I've tried to explain the way the daily show works
to people as this behive of people that all have
different interests and responsibilities. You are the guy in the
(02:27):
building that watches all the news.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
That's horrible thing.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
It's not even your department. It's not even your department,
not even my job, but you watch it all. You
watch Fox, MSNBC, CNN. I'm pretty sure you watch Black
News Channel at this point. You watch Cheddar? Is that
the one Cheddar?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Millennials Web only a lot of Scheddar, a lot of
Pluto TV, a lot of Christian Broadcast Network. There there
is pack still on PAX is there? Yeah, we got packs. Also,
there's a there's a really nice New Mexico correspondent I
dig so I kind of I got a little hook
of the IT guy gave me a VPN that I
can watch New Mexico local news whenever I need to. Yeah,
(03:13):
all that stuff straightened my eyeballs.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
That is true. He watches more than anybody at the show,
hands down.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
So where did this idea come from? That? Uh, in
any way suggesting that it was your idea?
Speaker 3 (03:25):
No, the we started doing these Fox Blains things with
Michael Costa, another correspondent, and then one day he was
unavailable and we were like, oh, DESI can do it,
and DESI has done it ever since.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
It's like the alternate who was just like waiting for
my chance to get it. I was just sitting on
the bench waiting for someone to get sick or underperform,
like have another gig. Tom Brady gets salivating.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Tom Brady is Tom Brady because Drew Blitze got hurt
during a game.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
So never forget DESI is our Tom Brady. Okay, I
don't know how much this metaphor is gonna hold up.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I am nodding, like I know what you're talking about,
but I am not a sports person.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Our producer who runs Ramin, who runs the expansion department
says that as he taking over from Foxplanes was the
best scheduling conflict of all time, So I think I
agree it worked out great. The idea of it, if
that's what you were actually asking, was that we felt
that like Fox was getting crazier and crazier, like not
only just in the election, but also after the election, Like,
come on, this stuff about it wasn't It was beyond
(04:31):
hydroxy chloro queen. It was beyond like covid is fake.
It was like going into the craziest darkest places. I
remember there was one day when during the election they
were talking Fox News was talking about Joe Biden and
Ukraine and like the Barisma thing, and they were like,
what about John Carrey's nephew, what about Whitey Bulger's cousin?
(04:54):
And I was like, is this real or not? And
so we made a list of things like that that
were like Malia Obama's Spotify playlist, like things like that
that would make no sense at all, Eric Holder's Venmo account, whatever,
And we were like, oh, this, we should just put
this in a list and have someone just be like,
(05:14):
this is the problem.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
What about Bill Clinton's g chat history, Chelsea Clinton's iPod
Acorn diamonds. They're all in on it, Biden Clinton, the
Steele dossier Australia of course, what about Eric Holder's Hulu password,
Malia Obama's Venmo history, Oh.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Hey, jay Z visitor logs, fake birds.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
And then that generally expanded to larger sentences. And then
when we did this with Desi, it was like, We're
just gonna pretend Dezie's been watching Fox News for six
days straight and is now explaining to you what is
on Fox, Because let's be honest, nice. Our audience is
not watching Fox for good reason, the number one reasons,
like they care about their mental health and it will
probably destroy you if you do.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
DESI who is this character that you played? And I
think that's the thing that well, well, I have two questions.
But first to you, who is this character that you're presenting.
Who is this news viewer that you believe watches Fox
for six six days straight?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Well, I kind of, I guess I look at it
like it's my own correspondent character having been subjected to
a deeply unhealthy amount of Fox News binge watching. Basically,
we started it somewhere around like I've been been binge
watching Fox News for seventy two hours, and then I
(06:28):
think it became seven days straight with no bathroom breaks
and has like escalated ever since. And I, you know,
I love that because when I first auditioned for The
Daily Show. I know we've traded stories on our audition
pieces before, but my original you know, you write a
(06:48):
piece and you perform that piece for the audition, and
the piece that I wrote at the time, and this
was back in twenty fifteen, was a version of like
a hybrid of Megan Kelly and Gretchen Carlson and all
of the Fox News blondes that I was watching at
the time, Right, yeah, I know that did not age. Well,
(07:11):
it's Desi Dasi leidik Okay Care expands on that. Well,
I'm a Stanford graduate, i have multiple degrees, I speak
nine different languages, one fourteen different beauty pageants. I'm a
proficient puppeteer as Celiac survivor.
Speaker 6 (07:26):
No, no, I meant to expand on your view.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Oh no, no, it's self evident. At that time, I
kind of was like, I thought that that was going
to be my lane. And then very quickly after we
started in twenty fifteen and Trump came to the front
of all of this, and then he became the nominee
and then the president, we really quickly realized like, oh,
(07:52):
there's a bigger beast here in the picture, and we
have other things to be talking about. So I'm grateful
that I was necessarily cornered into that specific character. But
ever since then, we were kind of looking for a
way to embody the madness and the mania without completely
betraying our correspondent characters. And this felt like a really
(08:14):
cool container to put that in because it is a feeling,
right when you watch Fox News.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Oh, it's a feeling, all right, It's one very specific feeling.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I like the segment because it's it's kind of dozy
to me, Matt. Seems like what would happen if you
followed every bread crumb and you said yes to every
possible thing that was ever suggested or presented, and you
somehow start connecting all of these nonsensical dots, Like in
a way, it's the it's the Randy Quaid character and
(08:46):
Independence Day, who's trying to explain the alien that comment? Like,
considering that it's a digital segment, and I think this
is the part that's really cool about it because when
we were in unpressed at times and these uncertain times, yes,
back when The Daily Show first was wading into those
(09:06):
unprecedented times, we were doing you know, we already do
a lot of digital content on the show. But talk
to me a little bit, Matt about like, what are
the different creative freedoms that you have, because in digital
we don't have the constraints of time, nor do we
necessarily have to follow a narrative that ties into something
that Trevor is talking about on that particular night.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
And also the way that I mean this makes me
a little bit sad because I think quarantine has or
working from home I should say, has taken a lot
of the energy out of that feeling of like I
need to run down to like Desi and Roy's office
and be like, can we do something real quick on
this on my phone right now?
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Okay? So then to that point, Matt, you're running all
over the building, but then you can't because COVID forty
three is finally here. How did that change how you
all produce these types of segments At first?
Speaker 3 (09:58):
I think when we were all kind of like, oh,
we got to do stuff from home, a lot of
people are like, oh, this is gonna be weird, And
Fox Plains was one of the things where we were like,
this is actually perfect because part of like part of
being on this expansion team kind of like a digital
team with a little bit more, is that we are
able to do things in a truly different way. That
(10:19):
is it sounds like corporate to be like digital first,
but like at the time, TikTok was getting really popular
and we were seeing like a lot of things on
Instagram and even on Twitter that were like people holding
up their phones and just kind of recording themselves and
being like, I got to get this off my chest.
So for me that was like really for our whole team,
it was like, let's do that sort of stuff. And
Fox plaines became DESI has to grab her phone and
(10:41):
start talking immediately about what she just heard Janine Piro
say to Sean Hannity, because this is out of this world.
I remember there was one night, I think it was
before as you might remember this, I think it was
before a debate, and it was this like there was
this conspiracy theory about how Joe Biden at an ear
piece he was getting transmitted. There was like a this
(11:04):
was a Fox News, this conspiracy sperience. Yes, he was
getting the answers fed the answers right, because everyone knows
that's exactly what that's what you need to get the
edge in a presdential debate. And like Sean Hannity or
someone someone was like pushing this on Fox News. The
Trump campaign was pushing it. Brett Behar was even like, yeah,
that's a really interesting thing. And so like I remember,
I grabbed my phone and I filmed myself doing like
(11:27):
a Fox Blaine's like proof of concept, and I was like,
this is like, is anyone talking about the earpiece? And
I like I remember getting down on it on my
knee and I was like, it's coming from Colin Kaepernick
kneeling raising his fist to transmit the signal, and then
like sent that over to Desi, and like DESI just
like did it and like did her own thing and
like sent that back and like we probably did it
(11:48):
in an hour, which was like awesome for we don't
need you know, we did. We didn't need to be
in the studio, we didn't need to have all this
like preparation that went into it. Was just like this
is like happening right now. Let's get it out before
the and we did. Joe Biden is wearing an ear piece.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
How can you tell? Because one ear is bigger than
the other. The ear piece is making it bigger.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
That's why he wears the mask to cover it up.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
It's a cover up. Where's the earpiece getting the transmission.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
From Colin Kaepernick. He's on his knee with his.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Fist up to transmit the signal to me.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
That was kind of the benefit of working from home
and embracing that sort of phone culture which has like
just shoved all of this, like people screaming and yelling
into our faces, and instead of returning to a more
civilized discourse, we were like, let's make it louder and
embrace it.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
I think it's one of those segments like Roy, we've
had to adapt to shooting from home, and so many
of the pieces you feel like, oh, I'm missing something
because I'm not out in the world, or we don't
have a professional cinematographer to get dynamic shots, and you
feel like you kind of miss a little something. But
this one, in particular, almost feels like the messiness of
(13:01):
the camera work and getting a little too close sometimes
and getting all hopped up actually works to feed the
emotion of it, because it's like I had to get
this off my chest. I don't have enough time to
get into a professional studio and share this. I've got
to grab my phone right now.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
So do you remember there was one we were doing.
I don't remember which one it was, but like you
got really into the like getting close to the camera
and you were like, should do one that's closer, should
do one that's closer. Like it basically got you like
your lips are like right up on the camera and
you were like, how many cuomos are there or whatever.
It's like, but it's like all you can see is
her face, and it's like, yeah, no, I've watched like
(13:37):
internet videos of people and like that's kind of what
it is.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
So yeah, yeah, my our poor viewers have have gotten
way too close into my mouth. They probably no more
information than my own dentist about the health of my teef.
I apologize for that.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Who was the one that said Major League MLB is
just bling back?
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Yeah? Yeah, Eric, So like, yeah, we did a Fox
planes with Desi where she said this is when Major
League Baseball took the All Star Game away from Georgia
because of their voter suppression law, and Desi's line was,
if you think about it, MLB is just BLM backwards.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
I know three things. One conservatives are pro business, Two
conservatives are pro freedom of speech, and three conservatives need
to destroy these businesses for opening theirmals. You thought Major
Biden was bad for this country, major League Baseball moved
the All Star Game out of Atlanta. MLB is just
BLM backwards.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
And like a week later, we were watching Eric Bowling,
who technically is a Fox emeritus okay for the fact
checkers out there, for the Daniel Dale's out there, for
the Glenn Kessler's out there, But he did used to
work at Fox and now he's like at Newsmax. So
he said, when you think about it, MLB is really
(14:51):
BLM backwards.
Speaker 6 (14:53):
MLB is backwards for BLM.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
And we were like, did we do this or so?
Or are we so in the mind of these psychos
that they made the connection that we thought was dumb,
and they were like, this is genius.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Do you Is there a joke that you think is
too ridiculous now, DESI where you look at it and
you just go, no, that that's that's a good.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
One, Like that was one of them. At the time,
I was like, oh, this is insane, and then come
to find out he said it, so yeah, I guess not.
I mean I think that's like That's what I love
so much about this segment is it really is about
embodying a feeling of just like woman on the verge
(15:41):
running on pure adrenaline, conspiracy theory and like, uh, you
know it's maybe a little bit of hypermectin. Uh and
then yeah, and then and then sprinkling in those little
personal anecdotes like I've been kicked out of Whole Foods
more times than any black person that I know, or like, uh,
(16:02):
you know, my husband's left me, or my children won't
talk to me. How can America be racist if it
was the liberals who fired a hard working black woman
from her job as a syrup bottle. This is the
country of African American legends, Martin Luther King, Junior Rosa
Park Nacklemore. If our country is racist, how do you
explain that I have been kicked out of whod food
more than any black.
Speaker 7 (16:21):
Person ever has.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
I feel like we did work in a narrative that
was like slowly every episode another member of Desi's family leaves,
and this episode's very clear, this one's driven royal family only.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah, she got problems, do you?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
And Here's the thing that I think a lot of
the correspondent to deal with from time to time on
the show is the real world interactions with people after
you've done a particular piece, like I've done CP time
enough to where older black women will come thank you
baby for doing this. Yeah, the people A lot of
people didn't know about that black person. That's the hidden history.
(16:58):
Do you get more? I'm trying to think of a
polite way to ask you. Is it daily show fans
who get it, or do you run into more Fox
fans who don't and think you're on the team, so
to speak.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
I will I will say with I will say with
this one in particular, it's it's hard to tell because
this came about during the pandemic. So I have not
left my house because the show keeps making me binge
watch Fox News and we've been on lockdown.
Speaker 8 (17:36):
No.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
But I think that this is this is one that
most of the feedback has been people who have watched
enough Fox News to know that it's not for them,
and they appreciate that we captured something that it feels
like Fox sort of runs on. And I will also
say that I have family members that are avid Fox
News watchers and it's the one segment that they have
(17:58):
not brought up to me.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
They were like, she's getting too close to the secret.
We can't engage.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
With her, yo. That is we need to We need
to do a separate beyond the scenes and just correspondence
interactions with their family members.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Oh yeah, yeah, just a family reunions.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
It would be great if the people in your family
who do watch Fox end up talking to you, like
at Thanksgiving or whatever, and they're like, by the way,
have you heard that MLB is just bling backwards? And
you're like, I did that.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
After the break, we're gonna get a much more qualified
journalists in here. We're going to speak with Oliver Darcy
from CNN. This is beyond the scenes. I'm excited now
to bring on a guest who actually does this in
a more professional capacity. No disrespect to you, Dessi, whatsoever.
Oliver Darcy, he covers politics. He is a senior media
(18:55):
reporter for CNN and the program that he does now
know reliable sources where they really take a deeper look
into what's going on with a lot of these same
channels that Matt that you and DESI watch for research. Oliver,
welcome to be on the scenes.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Now you regularly as a professional journalist. Can I call
you that? I know a lot of people try to
dodge that title. Now now that you're not scared, you're
not scared to be proud and open journalists and these
challenging timessts Okay, you all cover a lot of the
(19:35):
misinformation and conspiracy theories that bounce around out there. When
did that turn Well, you know what, let's let's go
back in history with you first, when you used to
work with Glenn Beck over at the Blaze, where you
kind of swam in those waters professionally, and then eventually
you got over to seeing in and then you were
now the guy who takes a look back at that
(19:57):
same environment. How did you when did you decide to
make the transition? What was it exactly that was happening
in the world or with you personally?
Speaker 4 (20:06):
I think I started off there.
Speaker 9 (20:07):
You know, I was always conservative growing up, and so
when I was out of college, you know, working for
Glenn Beeck's conservative news site was sort of a was
a cool thing, and I was sold the promise that
they're going to do conservative news, but like do good
conservative news, you know, like there are a lot of
strong liberal websites out there, you know, Huffington Post is
(20:28):
a good example of this, but they do solid news. Unfortunately,
I think a few years into that, I realized maybe
that's not exactly what they really wanted to do, and
so I made a jump over to a business insider.
Now I'm at CNN, But it has given me an
interesting perspective because I am very familiar with a lot
(20:51):
of the key players in the conservative news media. I
know a lot of them still I talk to them,
and it's allowed me, I think, to really succeed on
this beat.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
When you see something like you know, Desi of course
is playing a character. Yeah, but when you see people
in the real world out there, you know, I won't
say quite tenfoil hat with it with their beliefs. But
when you see people you know, basically going yeah, the
vaccine and lizard people and you know, Hillaries emails and
(21:23):
Joe Biden's son sold me crack last night. Like when
you when you see that type of stuff, what does
it make you feel with regards to what conservative media
has become.
Speaker 9 (21:35):
Well, Desi's segments are very funny until you realize that
there are so many people who actually have those views
and have have been told these things and believe them.
And so I think it's you know, it's incredibly alarming,
and I don't I don't know how we actually solve
this problem because there are these incentives from whether it's Facebook,
(22:00):
social media or just you know, Fox News or talk
radio or whatever it is, there are these incentives to
put these things out there. To mislead other people to
give them what they want. The field good content, the
red meat that really fires up the base. And I'm
not really sure how we get out of it. So
when I see people on television, you know, I was
watching Jordan Clapper, for instance, went to that New York
(22:21):
City anti vaccine rally recently.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
It's funny because and I said, no, no, thank you.
Speaker 9 (22:29):
He's funny, But like, it is incredibly disturbing because these
people have been sold to bill of goods from these
dishonest actors who you know, in many cases might not
even believe this stuff that they're actually selling. You know,
we know, for instance, that in the Fox control room
as they're producing these anti masks segments now they're all
wearing masks right the New York Post as they put
(22:52):
out these anti mask things and say you guys should
repeal your mask mandates. They're required to wear masks at
the office. And so when you know these things, it
is frustrating as hell.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Oliver. You can probably even connect A to B on
some of these things, because on Fox they talk about, like,
do we really think the vaccine is safe? It might
give you fertility problems six months down the road who
knows and then the people in the Klepper segment are
saying the exact same things, so you know where they're
getting this, and it's there's no longer this like hypothetical
that's like is it bad that Fox is doing this
or is it just kind of fun? It's like no,
(23:23):
it's actually horrible. These people are absorbing it and repeating
it out immediately. From your perspective, that must be like, yeah,
this is the most obvious thing to see.
Speaker 9 (23:32):
It's actually really frustrating too. When we talk about like
misinformation or people with vaccine hesidency. Every story almost that
talks about vaccine hesitancy should mention Fox News. Right, It's
like a very clear thing that's going on. It's not
rocket science to make these connections. Yeah, but like there
are so many people who who just don't want to
I guess maybe they viewed Fox as a I don't
(23:53):
know what it is, but they just don't want to
go there.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
And you don't hear that.
Speaker 9 (23:56):
And actually, Facebook, you know, they get a lot of
you know, they get a lot.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
Of blowback and they should get a lot of criticism.
Speaker 9 (24:03):
But you can at least make the argument that Facebook
is doing something to kind of clean up their their platform,
whereas Fox is like intentionally profiting off of anti vaccine
rhetoric right, Like, they are doing some really really terrible
things to society, and and they actually end up getting.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
A pass a lot of the time. It's it's really strange.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
I agree that, Yeah, DESI when when Oliver is talking about,
you know, like the people that Klipper are talking to,
who are obviously drinking the kool aid that's being served
up at these right wing spots, is there a smidge
of sympathy for people who have bought this horse, the
people that you parody. Is there any sympathy in that
(24:48):
or is it just this what they believe and we
just got to get the jokes.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
No, I think I have a lot of empathy for
people who are getting all of their information from this
one source that is peddling lies and untruths, and people
believe everything that they say. And in my opinion, one
of the scariest things about Fox News is that they
(25:13):
have a way of making you feel like it is
the only reliable source of information and you cannot trust
anywhere else. And that's that's scary. I mean, I Oliver,
you can speak to this better, but like that CNN.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Does it too. CNN. They even hired James Earl Jones
to make it feel like it's your father.
Speaker 6 (25:35):
Is CNN.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
I'll beat your ass if I get you listening to
another network. It's always a Every news network is a
deep voice, guy Oliver, where do you think this politically?
I'll tell you where I think and you tell me
you from right or wrong? The politicization of the news
and like this debate culture to me in Nayrid, I
know you watched this show too. I think it all
(25:58):
goes back to debate culture on ESPN, like mid to
late nineties, where I feel like, if I'm not mistaken,
I feel like sports kind of did. I mean there
was there was crossfire and Tucker calls and whatnot, but
James Carville. But I really feel like this this era
where an opinion is ratings, but somewhere along the way,
(26:21):
we the viewer mistake opinions for facts and research.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
Well, I think you need to separate, for one, opinions
with propaganda, right like we know, Like I think I
think it's fine if Fox wants to have the conservative
you know, a person who's you know, giving their their
opinion on the news and it's based in fact. I
think that's that's totally fine. That's that's part of the
healthy political system. You know, you're the conservative, maybe here
(26:47):
the liberal. You hear someone else and you make up
your mind. The issue here is that they're not doing
that right. They're just inventing things out of thin air
that support their guy. Like it's it's a sustained propaganda
effort on behalf of these people to keep.
Speaker 9 (27:03):
Them watching this channel. And so I think that that's
the issue. They're not playing by any facts or any rules.
They're just out there and it's really, you know, a
truth versus fiction sort of thing. So I think maybe
the cable news culture may have been born out of
ESPN out you know, cable news was around long before
you know, I started covering it. But the new phenomenon
(27:27):
where Fox is just totally detached from reality, I think
I'm not really sure where that comes from. Maybe Matt
has some ideas, but it's new. That's that's new within
the last I think even five years.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
Yeah, I definitely think the complete one hundred false propaganda
stuff came right at the end of like the second
half of the Trump campaign. Basically after he got the
nomination and then it became like, oh, none of these
allegations about him as sexual assaulting women are true. Obviously
that's not true. This man is perfect. And once you
across that line, it's like cool, everything is everything that's
(28:04):
true is now false. It's surreal to see it like
become I know that I can turn on Fox at
any point between seven and ten PM and I won't
hear something true. And that's absolutely crazy because even six
years ago you could turn it on and hear something
that was like bad, but you weren't guaranteed to get
something that wasn't true. On the cable news culture thing.
(28:27):
I know, this is like you know this is part
of your home too, but like there's a lot of
this element I think what Rory was talking about with
like going back and forth, like a sports show. You know,
NBC has Meet the Press, they have these panels that's
like Rich Lowry is on there, Like that's not great.
ABC has Sarah Izger and Chris Christy, that's not great.
Like CNN hired Kaylee mcananey though, like these people were
(28:48):
were not good people, but they were allowed they were
getting paid to essentially say things that were not true,
and I'm not I don't want to put I'm not
putting on the spot by saying, ah, it is bad
that we did that. I'm just pointing out there is
a problem with, as you said, not separating opinion versus propaganda.
It's totally fine to have someone a conservative on a
(29:11):
news channel and be like, I actually think we should
privatize blank, and then the liberal says, actually, it's more
efficient if we run it like this and let the
viewer decide that does not exist. There is no channel
that does that accurately right now, because the Republican Party
has moved all the way into misinformation and propaganda. So
all of those people who are bad actors are now
(29:31):
when they're presented as people who just have opinion, that's
misleading and they should be labeled as completely false. None
of this is true. Why are they even in the
first place.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
So then, so then to that point, Matt and Daisy,
you can chime in here if you like as well.
If the Republican Party has decided to entrench themselves in
a lot of lives for the sake of popularity and
staying connected to the base, or in Fox News's case,
to keep the ratings going. You got to sell with
the people. You got to show people what they're buying
and they want right now. They won't lie, so you
(30:01):
show them lies. The other side of that coin, though,
is as a news organization, if you're ABC or NBC
or CNN, do you just not have anyone on from
that side of the line if most of the popular
people that are going to be bringing ratings are also
bringing lies? Is it I can't believe I'm saying this.
(30:21):
Is it fair and balanced.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
To ten lawyers running into your house?
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Is it fair and fair and morally equitable? Haha?
Speaker 4 (30:34):
Lawyers?
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Is it fair and balanced to do that? Or do
you just have on the Republicans who are still more
centrist for the sake of having a balanced newscast, knowing
that it won't get you the same ratings and then
your show can get canceled.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Jeez?
Speaker 6 (30:53):
That to me?
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Who wants to take.
Speaker 6 (30:56):
You?
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Guys are the ex No?
Speaker 1 (30:58):
No, I'm just asking mat because I know that I
know the issue is they're putting liars on and I
agree with you. Yeah, So then do you just not
have anyone from that side represent it within a debate?
Or do you get Republicans that don't move the needle,
that make the show less electric, which.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Themselves do you have them on and call them outa
in fact check them.
Speaker 9 (31:19):
Yeah, this is like the thing, right, I think in
general though like Matt probably might disagree with this, but
I think in general, though we've seen people move away
from having the Kaylee Mcaninees of the world on cable news, like.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
You generally do not see that sort of thing. I
do think it is.
Speaker 9 (31:38):
A thing that newsrooms discussed though, because you don't want
to shut off, you know, like you're saying, you just
don't want to shut off what someone who you know,
thirty percent of the country may think represents their views.
And I think there is actually something somewhat valuable when
you have someone like that on and you see their
narrative just totally fall apart under you know, some like
(32:01):
persistent questioning from like Jake Tapper, right like when when
he's doing an interview and their narrative just falls apart,
Like that's that's very valuable.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
And I think to just demonstrate around Route Center.
Speaker 7 (32:15):
President Trump told Bob Woodward the first week of February
that he knew the coronavirus could be spread through the
air and that it was more deadly than the flu.
But two weeks later, he said at a rally that
coronavirus was the Democrats new hoax. Is that acceptable to you?
Is that misleading the public?
Speaker 6 (32:34):
You're talking about the uh, the Woodward book?
Speaker 4 (32:37):
Yes, the Woodward book.
Speaker 6 (32:40):
Oh I can do is share with you my point
of view, Pamela. Uh, these these gotcha books don't really interest.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Me that much.
Speaker 7 (32:48):
He's on the record, He's on the record.
Speaker 6 (32:52):
These these gotcha books don't really interest.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Me that much.
Speaker 7 (32:56):
The bottom line is, he told Bob Woodward privately that
this was a deadly virus, in that it was airborne.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
Didn't the public?
Speaker 7 (33:05):
Didn't the citizens in your home state of Louisiana deserve
to know that as well, so that they could change
their behavior appropriately to protect themselves.
Speaker 6 (33:16):
Well. Number one, Pamla, I'm not going to repeat what
I just said, but all I can tell you is
what my personal experience has been.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
Number Two, let me say a word.
Speaker 6 (33:26):
About this infatuation in Washington with who said what to
whom I learned pretty quickly up.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
Here, Senator, I'm sorry, I'm not going to let you
do this.
Speaker 7 (33:35):
Okay, this is I understand there's so much politics right now,
we're two months away from an election, but this is
life and death.
Speaker 9 (33:43):
I think that's the proper way to do these things
is not to maybe, you know, just allow them to
come on and just share a point of view necessarily
that's factually inaccurate or not tethered to reality, but to
actually challenge them. I do think that we've seen, you know,
and I don't like making general remarks or white sweeping remarks,
but I do think generally the news media has moved
(34:03):
away from having you know, the Kayle's on, and if
they are going to have them on, really putting them,
you know, putting what they're saying under the microscope.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
It's interesting two days ago or yeah, two days ago,
Nicki Haley was on face the nation didn't get like
any pushback about anything she was saying about Afghanistan, even
though it was a lot of it wasn't bad faith.
But I do see your point. I think there are
no longer Kaylee Mcanany's getting paid by like cable news networks.
I think that's true. The point about pushing back is
(34:36):
like so important because how many people can actually do that,
like in reality I'll give you Jake Tapper, Pamela Brown,
I'll give you Jonathan Swan, I'll give you. I think
Meddi Hassan's really good. I mean, are there that many
people who are Terry Moran had a good interview with
Paris Dynard on ABC, where Paris would Paris Deynard is
(34:58):
a Trump supporter, would not say that Trump lost the election,
and Terry for four minutes was like, just say it,
just say he just say Joe Biden won, and Terry
Ryan was like, Joe Biden is the roy. We did
a video about this. You remember this, right, yeah?
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Like, yes, it's Republicans admit that Trump, Yes, Joe Biden
legitimately won the twenty twenty election, and yet a strange
phenomena has arisen from the mist Republican mouths are unable
to formulate these words. Watch this.
Speaker 8 (35:32):
Is it a legitimate election under our constitution and loss?
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Yes or no?
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Joe Biden is the president.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
The election was not stolen.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
Correct, Look, Joe Biden's the president.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Republicans seem to know that Joe Biden is the president,
but not how that happened. Do they think a stort
delivered Joe Biden to the White House? Do they think
he tunneled into the White House like some sort of
reverse Shaw check? Do Republicans believe in an immaculate inauguration?
Speaker 3 (36:07):
And so, like, well, that's good questioning. Those people should
be commended and just held up as examples of how
to interview these people. But the reality is that like
most people can't do that, or they choose not to
do that. And I think the difference between the debate
of should you have these people on versus leaving them
off comes down to are you gonna have them on
(36:27):
with people who know how to treat them? And I
don't think there's more than like six people who can
actually do that, So that creates this whole of just
bad interviews.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
On the other side of the break, I want to
get into that a little bit more with you, Oliver
and Desi. Oliver, I need you to help me and
Desi on how we can stop misinformation. First, what can
news media outlet to do to stop the spread of misinformation?
But more importantly, how can we stop the spread of
misinformation at the Thanksgiving table.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
We're going to solve all of that.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
We'll do that in a minute. Beyond the scenes, we've
been talking about the Fox playing segments that Daisy does
that shows the enhanced effects of watching way too much
cable news misinformation. Now, we were talking about this a little.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Bit by the way, Roy, when you're say enhanced, it's
like very enhanced interrogation techniques, like it is torture to
watch Fox News. It legitimately is.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
Zero dot thirty. It takes shit going on when we
talk about the misinformation, you know, Oliver, before the break,
Nigelan was talking about, you know you need reporters that
are gonna give that pushback. Is that the only thing
that can help stop this misinformation?
Speaker 9 (37:39):
I mean, there are a lot of things that can
help stop this misinformation. I think it really comes down
to large companies enabling this. And so it's difficult to
tackle because there's not just one like avenue that misinformation
is spreading on. So you have a talk radio avenue,
which is it's totally undercovered. There are so many people
who listen to talk radio for hours and hours a day,
(38:02):
and you have hosts that most people haven't heard of
who are are are spreading lies across the country, and
they're supported by companies like Premiere Radio Networks. And we
just never talk about premiere radio networks and how they
allow for this spread of misinformation and conspiracy theories and
they profit off of it. So there's there's that Avenue,
then there's Fox News that avenue, then there's you know,
even companies I asked companies at the beginning of the year,
(38:25):
like comcasts like AT and T my employer, technically, you know,
like Dish, why do you carry channels like o in
you know, why do you carry channels that spread vaccine
conspiracy theories, election conspiracy theories? And so you have those
those guys, you know, to some extent, responsible for beaming
these channels into the homes of millions of people across
(38:46):
the country. And then you obviously have social media platforms
which incentivize people to spread these lies by giving them
you know, if the more read me throughout there, the
more engagement you get and the more you're profile builds. Right,
And so there are so many different issues here when
we talk about the spread of this stuff. There are
(39:07):
a lot of directions to go, and that really actually
makes me extremely pessimistic and in terms of solving this.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
Because I saw a tweet from Jason and Brusi, who's
another media reporter at NBC. His tweet was like, Uh,
it's almost impossible to talk to someone who doesn't have
a family member who's been affected by misinformation at this point.
And I think that over the past like six months,
that has become clear to so many people that there
is someone out there in your family or in other
(39:36):
people's families, like in a way that is more extreme
than ever because of what Oliver was just saying. Talk
radio is like this thing that most of us don't
even think is real because we don't drive in New
York and so and we're not Republicans, so we don't
have that on It hits millions of people, and it's
way worse than what's on Fox. It's completely unchecked and
(39:56):
there's no accountability.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
When I used to do road trips as a stand
up Kim and how they do like like a midnight
to five am drive back to Birmingham. That shit is
the Wild West radio like alien shows, there's psychic shows,
and then there's politics somehow woven into all of that.
(40:18):
How do we connect with the family members that are
means that are kind of buying into this stuff? What's
your move?
Speaker 2 (40:27):
I it's I don't have the answer for that I
wish I did. I find myself in conversations that I
wish I didn't start, and I find myself having like
a really enlightening conversation sometimes with family members who have
a different set of beliefs. Fortunately, most of my family
(40:47):
members who are Republican and have watched Fox News or
do watch Fox News are of the belief that the
vaccine works and COVID is real and they're taking it seriously.
So thank god for that. But like, yeah, I try
(41:08):
to lead with under trying to have an understanding of
where they're coming from, and it's really hard to get
on the same page with someone who just believes the
information that they're being told and they're only trusting one source.
If you're only getting your information from one source and
(41:29):
everyone else is getting their information from somewhere else, you
can't you're dealing with a different set of facts. So
until you can acknowledge that there's not much.
Speaker 9 (41:40):
Growth, that's an issue too, because like, if we're having
a debate, right, we can agree that The New York
Times is probably an authoritative outlet that you know, establishes
basic facts. The issue is that if we're having a
debate with someone who watches Fox and listens to talk radio.
None of the authority of outlets are going to have
(42:01):
any sway with them. In fact, if the if C
and N reports something, they will probably be conditioned to think,
well that it's the opposite is true.
Speaker 4 (42:10):
And that's the issue. And this is actually where it
would be helpful if there was a.
Speaker 9 (42:15):
Trusted conservative news organization right that these people would understand
and or at least listen to. But sadly there really
isn't these days. The ones that were responsible I have
been haulowed out and they're just you know.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Right because of the economics of it. And see, and
that's the other part of it when we get into
the corporate capitalistic part of media, is that OAYN has
to one up Fox News if they're going to get there.
They like they not only are the Democrats lizards, but
their venomous.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
The lizards like they have to Well here at Fox,
we don't say they have venom in their lizard tongues. Okay,
we will not go that far.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Shut up, Sean, Hey, you're stupid. The venoms.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Bitten by Jensaki. You will die in six to nine
days from the venom that comes out of her teeth.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
There is no profitability and sensibility in media right now,
at least not from the right, and I think that's
probably one of the biggest issues, Oliver. Have you as
much as you are willing to share, What are your
interactions like with your family from then to now in
terms of your affiliations with media, the types of stories
that you cover. Do you get family members that are
(43:30):
like pull are you the one pulling family members to
the side or you or are you the one that
gets pulled to the side?
Speaker 4 (43:37):
You know, Actually, my family is not very political, so
I actually, you know, they they just think it's cool
that they have someone who's on CNN or wherever it was,
you know, so that that's the good news.
Speaker 9 (43:49):
But I do know a lot of people who who
have been sucked into this you know, alternate universe, and
it's I mean, it's really difficult to have commerce about politics,
and even now you know it's it's it's expanding beyond
politics because this is really a lifestyle choice and so
it can be extremely difficult to uh, just see eye
(44:12):
to eye on basic.
Speaker 4 (44:13):
Things at this point. And I wish there was a solution.
I wish there was an antidote or a vaccine for
this stuff, but.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
They probably wouldn't take it anyway.
Speaker 4 (44:20):
We wouldn't take it anyway exactly. I don't know. I
don't know what the answers are.
Speaker 9 (44:23):
I feel like I'm always the most pessimistic person in
the room because I think this stuff is is really
destroying American society. And I watch it every day. Matt
watches every day. DESI watches it every day. I don't
know if you watch it every day.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
But don't. I have a child. I watch.
Speaker 9 (44:40):
Well, it's when you watch it every day and you
know that these people are peddling, you know, total bullshit
like it is. It is very very aggravating, like I mean,
and there's only so many media reporters out there like that,
Like quite frankly, we cover Washington, DC, and we hold
those people to account a lot more than we hold
(45:02):
the Fox News is and the Ruper Murdocks to account.
And I think that I've been saying that needs to change,
like that is that just outdated. The Ruper Murdoch has
so much more power than some random congressman like Marjorie
Taylor Green, Like we need to be focusing, refocusing a
lot of the scrutiny onto the people who are actually
(45:22):
controlling the dialogue and incentivizing the Marjorie Taylor greens versus
just focusing on the surface issues.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
We have a clip of Fox News personalities saying some
horrible things about refugees just in the past few days
that I feel like is very similar to how like
Oliver's describing, like watching this stuff is like so enraging.
Speaker 8 (45:46):
Isn't really our responsibility to welcome thousands of potentially unvetted
refugees from Afghanistan.
Speaker 10 (45:52):
It is extraordinarily expensive to resettle a refugee in the
United States. Resettling in America, it's not about solving a
humanitarian crisis. It's about accomplishing an ideological objective to change America.
Speaker 8 (46:06):
If history is any guide, and it's always a guide,
we will see many refugees from Afghanistan resettle in our
country in coming months, probably in your neighborhood, and over
the next decade that number may swell to the millions.
So first we invade, and then we're invaded. It is
always the same.
Speaker 3 (46:23):
I feel like that's such a perfect example of like
white supremacy on Fox News that we do watch every
day and like it's it's hard to just watch it
and be like, got it, Okay, we are invaded? Uh huh,
got it? Why is this responsiblity?
Speaker 8 (46:34):
Got it?
Speaker 3 (46:35):
Like when you watch it, you're like, ah, there are
so many people who believe this. This is so like
I have to take breaks watching that stuff. And it's
not it's like it's truly not enjoyable to do.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
It's a couple of clips just then just make me
scared of the refugees. I was like, oh my goodness,
how much does it cost?
Speaker 4 (46:52):
That's the thing.
Speaker 9 (46:54):
If you were to watch, like if you took a
normal person, right, and someone who's smart and and apt,
like if you were to force them like DESI, you know,
theoretically does to just only watch this stuff and to
only consume this kind of content.
Speaker 4 (47:07):
Like it is very likely that they will start believing
this stuff. Like it's not it's it's very likely.
Speaker 9 (47:14):
Like and they can be a smart person outside of
of you know, politics, they may be like an engineer,
for instance, a really good math but when they're consuming
this this political stuff, like you can see how you
can see how the math works there, and that because.
Speaker 3 (47:27):
They sound so sure of themselves, yeah, like especially the
way that Tucker is like if history is any guide,
and it always is, and it's like, well, that's kind
of that's true, right, That's always.
Speaker 4 (47:38):
The favorite thing to do too. It's just to say
something and it always is, and I.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
Write about this, yes, of course, they also like are
putting all of this, like all of this false patriotism
around it in like the worst way, which obviously since
nine to eleven has been like kind of like slowly
throwing more flags in the background and everywhere. But it
makes you think like if you disagree with this, you're
like kind of on American And that gets the people
at Oliver's talking about these like people who maybe don't
(48:04):
watch a lot of news all the time, if they
watch it, they're like, why would they be saying that
if they were not patriotic, Like that's the that's how
you get those people in the middle, or people just
who aren't super aware.
Speaker 9 (48:14):
What people maybe don't realize is that like the Fox
News primetime lineup now is so much more extreme than
it was like ten years ago. Like you know, outside
of what you think about Bill O'Reilly, like he was
like not Tucker Carlson, Like Tucker Carlson is like mainlining
you know, talking points basically from info wars. Like this
stuff used to be relegated to really far weird corners
(48:37):
of the Internet, and now it's being sent to millions
of Americans nightly on Fox. And I just think people
don't maybe understand that, like the Fox News we're talking
about now is so much different than the Fox News
from ten years ago.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
What makes it so addictive for people? Because I know
people who will plan their entire day around Fox News programming.
Why why do people get sucked in in the way
that they do unlike other news platforms.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Yeah, I mean, I like dun Lemon, but I'm not like, hey,
I'll see y'all later. I gotta get home.
Speaker 6 (49:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 10 (49:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (49:17):
I think if you've been told the country is like
going to hell and there are people, you know, scary
people coming to invade the country, you know, and you
believe this stuff, which they've been conditioned to believe this
stuff over hours and hours and hours and days of programming,
weeks and years of listening to folks like this, Like
you think that the situation is very dire, and you
want to hear a truth teller like Tucker Carlson, like
(49:38):
it's it makes sense, right, like if you can get
very easily sucked into this universe where like you need
to know the truth and Tucker's the only one delivering
the truth, and it's like an extremely urgent situation.
Speaker 4 (49:50):
And that's sort of what it's like on Fox, right.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
That's exactly what I was going to bring up a
little earlier that in talking to other family members that
I don't see out of eye onolitically, what I've often
found is the consistent, the consistent, you know, thread between
all of them is some degree of fear and self
and self preservation. So I feel like my life is
(50:13):
not where it needs to be, and I feel like
this politician or this network has the solutions that will
make some of my problems go away. So that's what
I'm going to lock in on. And anything that you're
talking about, even if it's better for mankind, it might
not be good for me personally. So because of that,
screw everybody else, and I'm going to lock in and
watch this show. Like my family, you know, I have
(50:35):
people that you know they were working, you know well
through the pandemic and it was something that you know,
we didn't always My uncle this sounds crazy. My uncle
was still openly dating. And my uncle's vaccinated now and
he wear a mask, and I'm like, dude, you can't
just be out dating on a regular This is like
last summer. It's just going on dates. These are literal
(51:00):
strangers and a data is intimate to which my uncle
said and I quote, I wear a mask, but if
we have sex, I'm taking it off and we can
talk about that on a separate podcast.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
Originally a sex position, which is what.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
We could go on about this all day. But I
want to thank you Oliver for coming on and being
a part of this. Thank you so much. And I
will set the DVR for reliable sources on CNN and
damn it, it is Oliver time. Nagron.
Speaker 3 (51:34):
I'm excited to see that.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
As always. Matt, thank you, and Desi thank you as well.
If you want to watch desi segment that we've been
talking about here on the podcast so eloquently for the
last I guess almost an hour dailyshow dot com slash Beyond.
(51:57):
Listen to the Daily Show Beyond the Scene on Apple podcasts,
the iHeartRadio app, or wherever you get your podcasts. Want
to go even further beyond the Scenes. Check out the
video version of Beyond the Scenes on the Daily Shows
YouTube page.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.