May 16, 2023 • 73 mins
This week we welcome one of the baddest, Cheyenne M. Davis, to the show to talk about pleasure in all its forms, media representation both on screen and behind the scenes, and the oppression still caused today by that bag Carrie gave Louise in the SATC movie.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Black Fat Film Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
and Doctor John Paul LLC. Hey everyone, welcome to another
episode of the Blackfat Film Podcast, where all the intersections
of a dentity are celebrated. I'm one of your hosts,
John also known as Doctor John Paul, and I'm just
here to say that now that my winter fat has gone,
I now have spring rolls drama.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
How are you, Jordan?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Whenever I hear anything rolls, I was listen Edward's back rolls.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I live for you. Hey, fam, what's good?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
It is your other fave hosts, Joe or Jordan for
TROMP proper with it? And I just have I just
have to ask. I'm really curious when will the revolution begin?
Gas prices are rising, the housing market is a mess,
Climate change is ruining us, and I I'm just.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Over America right now. Let's just tear. I'm ready for it.
I'm ready for a change. Unplugging, unplugging, hard, Reboot please hard?
Where is the reset button? Where's the where's the sweet mode?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Can you just you can see Jesus just pressing reset
on Earth. Literally press reset.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
That's actually what should be about Earth. Okay, you don't
need to come back.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Back.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Just reset it it go girl. It is a mess.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
But all that to be said, I'm happy that we're
both here. We are here with another amazing number three
in our seat. Now I'll just say this real quick.
This person is a favorite of mine. I've been I've
been following them forever in the day before they took
our blue checks away. And what I will say is
that I was really excited when our show got announced
because obviously, when you like to release the show, folks
(01:53):
who you want to invite, who do you want to
have come?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
And your name was literally at the top of that list.
So I'm just so grateful that you are here.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
They are a journal list, a digital content creator, a podcaster,
and when I say, a badass writer, screenwriter. Y'all need
to make sure that your eyes are on them because
they are coming for our next They being highlighting, not literally,
like they are crafting content that's not only inclusive, highlighting
(02:21):
fat and you know, black and queer experiences in terms
of characters. But I love I will say this. I
don't know a lot about anime. I don't know a
lot about like the gaming world and all of that,
but I do appreciate when black queer people, they like,
they push themselves into the space and they make room
for themselves. So give it a for I guess this
week Schayenne and Davis, how oh my.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
God, Okay, I'm shook at that intro. You got to
run that back.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
They're like really good with these intros.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
And I just been going off with what y'all have
to give me, I said, when they when they give
me something to work with, I work with what they Yeah,
so you gave me something good to work with.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
You I'm doing today, you know, blessed and highly favored and.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Okay, okay, yep, that's that. I know that's right. Anytime
the nights are on, it's a good day.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I know that. Sorry, yes, God nows so well. We're
gonna get into our weekly old to Tisha Campbell and.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
We've been doing.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
We are literally close to episode fifty, and that still
takes me down every time I think about why we
have a opening with the old t Campbell.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Honestly, why she has not reached out to us yet.
I'm surprised she has not said anything to us yet.
I know, you listen somewhere, I know, somewhere around someone
send you this segment and you're.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Like, that's somebody tsha And it's not funny because the
song is very the context of the song is absolutely terrible. However,
I just love the fact that her performance, she was
so much in her y'all are never I'm never gonna
get tired of talking about but anyway, in our old
to it's in our old to teach Campbell, I wanted
to ask we hear so much junk about people who
(04:22):
want to change this or that, or but I really
wanted to have a conversation this week, or I wanted
to kind of bring up the topic what is something
about yourself that you don't want to change? And what
I mean by that is, I know, for me, my
size is something that I've always wrestled with. I've always
wrestled with the notion of, you know, my energy, how
big I am. And when I say big, I'm talking
(04:44):
about body and my also my personality. And after years
of thinking about how the world has trying to damn
again both my size and my personality, and I'm learning
and leaning into the idea that it is okay for
me to be. You know this quote unquote extra that
a lot of people say, well, you're so extra, right,
and kind of getting too this place of being like,
you know what, I like being extra. I like being loud,
(05:06):
I like being the big, fat black girl that walks
into the room right, and so really leaning into this
idea that me being extra is really who I am
and it's what makes the world better. And I know
it's cliche, but I did want to ask that, like,
sometimes I think we need to hear that it's okay
to be who we are. So I wanted to give
us a moment to kind of step back and think
about that.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
So we'll start with you. I'm Cheyenne. I would love
to know what are your thoughts, and then will pop
over to you joho.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
So just a quick sidebar. I was talking to my
therapist today about my goals, and one of my goals
from last year was living in my identity and not
feeling like it was a hindrance to me. For a
very long time, I just felt like me as a
person because of all the things I have experienced, the
intersections I exist in, the margins that I'm sitting on,
(05:54):
living on, laying on, working on. I just felt that
it was just difficult because the things I experience online
and such, but today I'm really here to say, you know,
one thing I don't want to change about myself is
my resilience. And I don't want to talk about resilience
in the old toxic positivity way because listen, a girl, listen,
(06:15):
your boy's gonna rest when they need to rest. I'm
gonna tell you all that right now, but I'm not
trying to say it from that perspective, but more so
like this ability for me to just take the time
to know that need to process and continue moving forward
and just going with the punches and rolling and being
more fluid. So let me actually change the word, not
my resilience, my fluidity in all essences of that word,
(06:36):
because no matter how my body changes, how my gender
expression changes, how the ways that I feel about the
world that I exist in changes or evolves, I definitely
feel that my ability to be fluid in the spaces
that I'm in has really helped me to be who
I am and has really affirmed me.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
As a person.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yes, And I just want to say real quick, the
fluidity of being able to give glam at almost ten
o'clock eleven o'clock at night is what's also like I
wish y'all could truly see how amazing.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Dress in the fins of attire. If you know, you
fucking know, don't you have? You have you have to
find out?
Speaker 1 (07:21):
You don't you gotta you gotta. I gotta figure it
out home, you gotta figure it out.
Speaker 6 (07:26):
I live.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
But thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
I love the word fluidity because I think that that
even hearing you mentioned that, like, I got chills. Next,
seriously got chills because I'm thinking to myself, Wow, like
how awesome is it to be able to step back
and within yourself and say I am on this. I
think that's the thing we've really tried to kind of
like create around this show is this notion of we're
(07:48):
all on a journey, we're all trying to figure this
this ship out, especially in a world that really doesn't
want us here and doesn't really like us being here,
And this notion of you being able to say that
in any situation, you're able to kind of benew and
do what you need to do to love who you
are and be who you are.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
So I love the word fluidity. Thank you, Like I'm
literally gonna take that with me. But what about your
joho same same.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
I'm also taking that, so thank you, thank you for
giving us that I would say for myself, I don't
want to change my tenderness like I'm a sensive I'm
a tendernie.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
I'm a sensive person.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Sometimes to a fall. I mean, I can be a
postch over. I can be a people pleaser, and we
just discussed that in our last episode.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
But it makes me.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
I believe, it makes me deeply empathic and helps me
understand people, their feelings and their experiences.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Like I love in sensive.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I love.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
I love that I cry. I cry when I dog
dies in a movie. I like. I love. I love
that when someone's hurting that I'm able to sit with
them and hold with them.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
I love that I'm sensitive. I you know, I I
injustices like it makes me feel like I'm a stronger person.
I know folks sometimes say that one should not be sensitive,
and like if my especially like like like through through
a black context, specially being raised by a black man,
tell me I should be sensitive, I shouldn't be a
s c like, I continue believing that being sensitive is
my superpower.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
It makes me the strongest version of myself.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
And so I never want to change it even when
I like, I remember people who have told me in
life like like you won't get far in life being
sensitive or kind.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I'm sorry, where's your podcast?
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Dot?
Speaker 6 (09:23):
I'm just one of the Apple and and and let's
talk our ship because we are on the front of
the Apple page under new and no, so let's.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Let's talk about it. So this so thank you so
much by politely or disrespectfully disagree.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Okay, Look, I know that, right, y'all gonna hear me
saying that a lot, because literally it is a whole vibe.
And I'll say to that to your point, Joe, you've
and I know you've mentioned in you know, prior episodes. Right,
we did a whole episode around softness. Softness, and I
think one of the things that I think is important
in hearing both of you talk about fluidity and softness,
the whole concept of like the soft life is that, right, like,
(10:05):
we spend our whole lives beating ourselves up, and we
spent our whole lives trying to even someone said on today,
I was on my peloton and the woman said, you know,
you have to love your body. You can't beat your
body up and hate your body. Into it becoming a
body that you love. I think about that a lot.
A part of being sensitive and being soft and really
loving who you are, it's recognizing that you have to
(10:27):
do the work to do that. So I love that
both of you are mentioning like fluidity and kind of
ebbing and flowing and moving, but also recognizing too, like
who you are is what makes you amazing.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I'll live for it. Thank you for opening up our
show that way. Go ahead, go ahead, Sorry.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
I would like to speak to that point too.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
As a black community, Sorry, we definitely have this very
toxic relationship with hyperindependence, so that it's taking it's telling
us a step away from what community means. It's telling
them to step away from what multiplicity means. It's it's
literally us kind of stepping into further into whiteness. Because
I'm sorry, hyperindependence is very anti black.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
This is something that I teach my students. I also,
you know, I also teach a class at.
Speaker 5 (11:13):
N YU when they ask you to carry a course
around marginalized communities and media.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
But we'll talk more about that later. But I I
tell my students how one.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
Of the hallmarks of tropes and like creating personas around blackness.
Is this idea, idea that black people are created to
save people and to nurture others and to give storylines
to others, to literally be not even burking bags, not
even a Kate's Bade bag, but like a Walmart shopping
bag excess level for people like so, Mils, I'm not
(11:46):
trying to talk about Walmart.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
I'm just trying to give y'all listen. They really trying
to make a break.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
That bad that Carrie Bradshaw Gage Jordan.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
I have been waiting my whole life to talk about
this fucking bag.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Can I.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Felt like that bag was so fat phobic, something about
that exchange fund. First, first of all, first of all,
this your personal assistant is getting married.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
Okay, you get this ugly ass Louis Bauton slash dony
and burke ass bag that.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
Girl.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
I'm on now, Louis would have never even made that bag.
I was like, there's no way hell they would have
sold that bag anywhere. I do not understand, and I
agree that it was a fat phobic to get to
get to give Louise her own bouton like this?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
How dare you do her like this? How dare you
never in.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
My life here that bag.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yeah, I y'all, y'all are y'all lit?
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Okay, now that we know that we are still here
in all of our fullness light Tisha Campbell, we got.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Our way to our first break. We'll be back after
a minute and talk about pleasure with our amazing guests. Bam,
we are back.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
And the one thing that I know that we know,
Shane you talk a lot about in your work, it's
pleasure activism.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
And while we won't errow all your day laundry right now.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
On the show, John mentioned something that thought was really interesting, okay,
that you talk about the guilt that can come with pleasure,
especially when you're living your best life.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
So I'd love to first open the conversation with you
just sharing a little bit more about this.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Well, let's be honest.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
When you exist in a larger body, you are constantly
being told that you have to exist outside of it.
You're being told in order to live any type of happiness,
exist in any type of happy happiness, embracing any type
of happiness, and also for your interpersonal relationships to work,
you have to be smaller in every essence of that word.
(14:11):
And I was never made as a person to be smaller.
I've been fat my whole life. I've always been outspoken
in some capacity my whole life. I'm sure I've battled
with being seen and heard for who I am in
my fullness, and that is something that I'm coming into
the season that I'm still combating. It's life, it happens.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
We can't.
Speaker 5 (14:29):
We have to fight white supremacy every day. However, we
got to understand when you're being told not to be yourself,
there's a level of guilt when you do have access
to those doors that open you up to your fullest self.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
So whether that be.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Having or orgasm, whether that be have a community that
actually makes sense and works for you and actually embraces
you as a human being, whether that be trying to
heal from old traumas and past wounds. Because I feel
like there's a level of pleasure in that too, Because
people think pleasure just means oh, I'm fucking and that's it,
or I'm masturbating. No, pleasure is happiness, it's joy, joy,
(15:02):
it's yeah, it's the ability to be unabashedly yourself and
to really connect with your child self and be like,
I'm bringing you along this journey so that you can
smile too, especially in the times where and doing the
activities where you never thought you could.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Have those opportunities.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Baby, you are okay, so if you coming out the gate,
how And I appreciate all of it because so I
just wrote a story a couple of weeks ago for
Auto Straddle, and you know, one of the things that
I wrote in the article was about the guilt that
comes with just honestly being happy. And I think that's
(15:38):
one of the things that you know, I've noticed right
specifically with certain folks around me. I've noticed that the
happier that I've become, the more comfortable I've become in
my skin, the more comfortable I've become in my bag.
Right there, there is this notion of folks trying to
subtly cut you, to make you feel guilty about that
(15:59):
pleasure and the joy that you have and really knowing
too that And I love so much what you said
and it kind of ties to this, right how we
as black fat fems kind of always have to like
we can never be in the store and enjoy what's
happening in the store. We have to be outside the
window looking in. And I think that there's so much
(16:20):
around that.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
You remember.
Speaker 5 (16:25):
I remember one time I told my therapist, I feel
like I'm watching everybody else live my life, and that
was the moment I realized. I realized that this nigga
was outside the club and they couldn't even get into
their own club, at their own party, at their own
VIP section.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
It's like, I put all this work into my life
to be conditioned to living it for other people.
Speaker 5 (16:50):
Because again, people, and listen, I may have a cancer mars,
so sometimes I can come off very motherly, are very
parentally in a lot of ways, but at the same time, listen,
it's difference between just naturally being a leader and being
mammied into a position. And in a lot of cases,
I be mammied into a position where people are like,
you got to make sure that you're.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Responsible for everybody's thoughts and feelings. You got to make
sure you're responsible for everybody else's happiness before yours. You
got to make sure that you're doing the work so
that people can digest and consume the work, but they're
not necessarily using utilizing the work to ameliorate the status
quo or to.
Speaker 5 (17:24):
Even ameliorate themselves. So a lot of times you're doing
a lot of this fucking work right just to be
paid crumbs. Like I be telling my students when it
comes to fat black people in particular, it's given mother
hen syndrome.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
I'm like, have y'all ever read the story of the
mother Hen?
Speaker 5 (17:38):
Where you got all these niggas sitting around the cat?
Don't want to help with the grain, the horse of whatever.
Don't want to put the bread in the oven. Now
when the bread is fixed, everybody want to eat now
where you are not having my sour dough loaf.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
Remember remember when Kimberly Elisee was eating in front of Charles,
That's what I'm gonna be eat.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Will this.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
Getting any of this? I know?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Not the top movie. No, not Charles.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Oh my god, Okay, who okay, I'm I'm so I'm
really happy that I'm really happy that that that that
you were gone there, because I was like I was gonna,
I was gonna originally say like not to go there,
but also to go there. But I love that you
were going in there because it feels like, and I
think you mentioned before, like this is such a tool
of white supremacy to punish us for building whether it's joy, wealth,
(18:38):
or pleasure, like as people of color when non when
non color have built this for themselves throughout life without
any repercussions, to your point, often at the expense of us.
So I would love, love, love, love to have your
thoughts on like, how how might you envision tools to
break down these like to break down these ratualizations of us.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
And if I can say real quick too, I not
to get away from that question, but I also love
that you're teaching students to think about this too, because
I think this is something that I just wanted to
kind of put into from an educational standpoint. We we
tend to teach black people that part of our liberation
is through academia, and that's not always true. So I
appreciate you teaching the kids, But go on, thank you.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Okay, I'm gonna work backwards. I'm gonna speak to you first.
Do you want me to address you as doctor Higgins.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Or John baby John?
Speaker 5 (19:30):
Okay, listen, I just like to ask, Yeah, I'm good
to speak to your point.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
John.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
One of the things I'd be telling people about academia
is that it feels a lot of us. Okay, It's
an institution of white supremacy, institution of capitalism, and it's
also built off of slave labor.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
We can't avoid them.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
Most of these schools like Yale, Rutgers, so on, and
so forth have been chartered through slave labor. So we
have that own those heritage, the heritage behind that. That's
number one. Number two. When it comes to my students,
I try to create a classroom that is a safer environment,
that has built off of mutual respect, that is built
off of openness, but it's also built off of brutal honesty.
(20:15):
The first day of class and the last day of class,
I make them do an sectionality checkpoint. You name what
your intersections are and how you navigate in the world.
I also participate in this activity because I don't really
teach a lot of black students, and the black students
I do teach, a lot of them are multiracial or biracial.
A lot of them come from a lot of money,
you know, I teach at NYU. A lot of these
students have a lot of access to things that I've
(20:36):
never had access to. And even though I did grow
up with some privilege too, like I've lived in a
two parent household, and then there were upper middle class.
So I do understand what that comes with. I'm still
a black person, I'm still a fat person, still a
gender expansive person. So I try to break it down
from them since day one that we have to look
at everything. You can't just hold one identity and cast
(20:57):
away everything, especially if you're not a white Now white
people it's a little different because yes, white people can
have marginalizations, they are still white. That white is gonna
trump everything, so we have to all hold that. So
now to your question, Jordan, the question was your question
was how do we envision a different world?
Speaker 4 (21:16):
The last class of the last lecture of the class is.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
Building a better world through media Because I'm like, we're
gonna talk through about all this shit that y'all can
go through and all the different ways in which.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
People are being marginalized and oppressed and disparaged.
Speaker 5 (21:29):
We all, I said, you can't talk about the good
the bad without emphasizing the importance of what we need
to do with this because listen, I said, I can
give y'all ship ton of information, you still need to
find tools and strategies.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
On how to implement that information.
Speaker 5 (21:43):
So one of the first one of the first things
I talk about is white white guilt and also like
the responsibility of white white people breaking down racism and
whiteness because at the end of the day, yes, I'm
doing my job, I'm still a black person. White white
people have to teach other white people how to be
in racist, how to to to dismantle and how to
(22:03):
do anti whiteness work. The second thing is that I
tell them it's great that y'all have black characters and
and marginalized characters on screen, you gotta have them off
screen too. What about your black and brown gaffers, what
about your your disabled ads and directors and cinematographer and yes,
(22:23):
trans people, because people don't understand how important those experiences
play a part in the behind the scenes, even having
marginalized intimacy coordinators now that we have those jobs now,
especially because like if you're having sex scenes with black
people and you got a white person coaching them through it, girl, what.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Let's gonna be the clip that of an ask Christy
you'se girl?
Speaker 5 (22:50):
What?
Speaker 4 (22:50):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Yes, I feel you.
Speaker 5 (22:52):
So you representation matters, but also being proactive and doing
the work. And I said, also, you have to have
DEI training in these spaces too.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
You got to have people to come in to.
Speaker 5 (23:04):
Give give the rundown on how people need to be treated,
how people need to be regarded, how people need to
be held. Spaces, workspaces are intentionally not safe. What we
have to intentionally make them safer, and the ways in
which we do that is just putting the effort in
to do that. Even just the effort being the starting
place is something that I try to emphasize.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
To my students.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
So we have to the only way we can envision
a better world is that people have to see it
for themselves. People have to see themselves. People damn sure
got to see others.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
And I think that that's the you you speak to
something quickly that i've I think that actually kind of
was what sparked this conversation or me wanting to when
I when I again, So when I was going through
your bio and I saw that you talk about pleasure activism,
I took it for a moment because I've been thinking
about the interactions I see on social media of people
who like to shame other people for oh, well, you
(23:57):
were once poor and now you're doing okay and now
you've changed, or shaming people for like going out to
dinner and posting pictures about their photos with dinner and
things of that nature, right, And so even thinking about
for myself, right, Like so the first time that I
went up, and I'm gonna say it right now because
by the time y'all hear this, I had already done
in it.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Whatever.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
But like a friend of mine, right, we're going to
dinner tomorrow and we're going to Flemings, Right, this notion
of like why would you go to Flemings? You know
you should be you're a freelancer, or you're black and
you're queer and you're for the people and you're doing
all this work, but you're going to this expensive ass
place to eat dinner. But it's little stuff like that
that I catch in these conversations, right, And I think
for me it always comes back when you talk about
(24:38):
building a better world. You know, I've always said, both
on social and not I never hear specifically white or
white fat queer people get the basically get the shit
that we get for just being happy, Like I don't
see it and I don't ever hear about it. And
so I think for me that that's something that I've
(24:59):
become or cognitive of because I want to admit I
have moved a tax bracket. I do recognize that with
this show, it has moved me, and I want to
respect that. I understand that not everybody is going to
be able to say that, but I know for myself,
with being a teacher and doing this podcast, I am
(25:20):
in a different tax bracket and I respect that. I
respect the privilege in that. However, I have also been
through hell to move that tax bracket. And that's the
thing that people remiss when we don't talk enough about,
right the hell on these last fifteen to twenty years
that I've had to go through to get my name
in the rooms, to get the shows, to get the checks,
(25:41):
to get the entertainment lawyer, to get the agents right,
no one wants to talk about any of that. And
so I guess for me, this conversation or this word
pleasure is so much bigger for me because it's we
live in a world where our full authenticity can never
be what's what I'm looking for. I don't want to
(26:03):
say syncs, but they can't live together. And in the
world that people build for black fel first, right, pleasure
and authentic and authenticity can't live together, and so I
guess what I wanted to ask you is what advice
you know? I know you have a thought, but I
did want to ask what advice do you have for
listeners who might be holding back or thinking that they
need to change who they are. That's why I asked
(26:23):
the question at the top, thinking that they have to
change who they are to be able to find joy.
Speaker 5 (26:28):
So the first thing I want to say is, in
the words of Yonker's native capricorn icon Mary J.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
Blige, yeah there will be there will be And this.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Is the chapter.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
This is in the chapter of Deuteronomy. I don't know
if y'all saw us in the Bible.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
There will be no hater ration or ration in answer
answer just want to say.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
In response, I want to say is I'm.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
The more serious know who wed.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
A lot of it is.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
There's a lot of noise. There's a lot of hippie
gapping that we just gotta tune out. It's easier said
than done. But one thing I've also may I tell
people is that you gotta make a choice every day.
It's either I'm gonna sit up here and pull up
with the bullshit, or I'm gonna feel what I feel
and I'm gonna keep it the fuck going, Chyenne at
(27:28):
this stage in their life, at the cusp of almost
twenty nine, almost thirty next year, I'm gonna listen, I'm
gonna hear what people gotta say, or I'm gonna just
move through whatever people gotta say and just keep it
the fuck on. Because the only way I can truly
embrace myself is to feel that I have to affirm
myself and recognize that whatever people are saying nine times
(27:50):
out of ten don't even got shit to do with me,
Just like you and your friend trying to go have
a nice ass time because you work so fucking hard
to get where you are. You deserve that, regardless of
who made the restaurant. Because I need people to understand
this too, I tell my students this, I'm gonna.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
Tell you all this. Multiple things can be true at once.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
Yes, we hate that, as a boo zero out of
ten would recommend, we still got to survive in it,
and we're all and it is okay to treat ourselves
when the world is literally going to ship you worried
about me going to get a steak, going to get
a steak, and girl be quiet, Girl be quiet. This
(28:31):
is not your conversation, like and honestly, what would be
better is if people would learn what conversations are for
them and which ones are not for them.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
If you don't have nothing positive to contribute, shut the
hell up.
Speaker 5 (28:44):
Go eat, Go eat your Quaker oats, Go drink you,
go drink you some crystal light, Sit down.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Get a tind me. Yeah, you can even get a
table to listen.
Speaker 5 (28:55):
And my thing is, we would all work better if
people would just be quiet and actually listen for once.
And a lot of people want to talk because they
are so afraid of their own potential that they would
much rather try to dim your light than to turn
theirs on.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Half of these niggas don't even know there's a light
switch there.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Yeah, I'm sitting here like, how's this my show? And
I feel like you appreciate the me.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
I'm like, I'm looking good, this is being a JUMO
show And I feel like you came to school us,
but go out like.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
I just I just feel that people focus so much on,
especially if we're going to talk about fat black feminhood, right,
people focus so much on how and I tell my
students is too how fatness is viewed as an amalgamation
of poor choices that you chose to be fat, that
you chose to put yourself in such a position where
you don't deserve anything, even life. I remember when I
(29:50):
did that other podcast about traveling as a fat person,
people literally told me that if I have money to
pay for a ticket, I have money to pay to
lose weight and get a weight loss service. People were
literally telling me to go kill myself because I was
talking about that. That was the most and so much
so that I was writing an article for Washington Post
that I gave up on because I didn't want to
be disparaged and so about.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
The same topic.
Speaker 5 (30:14):
So I say that to say this, there's people really
view fat people as the scum of the earth because
it's like we chose to be that way.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
And so when you choose to.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
Exist in this body to go out and do things
that a lot of fat people are not viewed to do.
Cause let's make it clear, even when we look for
a media standpoint, not just traditional media, but also social media,
when do you see a lot of fat black people
going out doing fancy things even if they have the
money to do it, ever, and even if people are
posting it it's not being promoted. You know how social
media works. Yeah, the algorithm is not going to promote
(30:47):
that TikTok. I don't really I don't really see fat
black people on TikTok like that. Truthfully, they show me
a lot of white people.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
I don't even watch a lot of white content. Why
am I seeing Sarah.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
You No, You're literally said, you're speaking to me Because
I think about this a lot. Ask somebody you know
who who is trying to get to the masses that
it is okay to be yourself. I have made a
comment I said in the last few months I've been
watching the and I actually have put this in the
doc Joho. So this is offline but online, but I
(31:23):
put this in the doc that I did want to
have a conversation about specifically people in the anti fatness
conversation of all. I lost weight for this because of
my health and all of these different things. But knowing
in the back of my mind that a lot of
people recognize the joy and how much easier life is
when you're thinner, and I think that that's what you're
(31:43):
really speaking to, right, And so this notion of not
being able to find pleasure or joy in life when
you're fat, and that my life will open up when
I lose weight, right or when I look a certain way,
that that's digestible for media. That's what you're speaking to,
because people want to turn fatness into this, this this,
(32:05):
this story of triumph, this losing weight is to be like, Oh,
this person overcome the biggest literally and figuratively, the biggest
hoople in their life, and now they could never be happier,
I've heard. But the thing about it is that are
you really happier? You really fighting your demons every day?
Because let me tell you, let me let me tell
you a funny story. So when I was in grad school,
(32:26):
I used to go to the New school. I went
further to the new school for my master's and while
I was in me too. While I was in grad school,
I used to do substitute teaching. And I was at
an all fem school and they were doing one of
the guidance counselors came to speak to the to the
students about like body image. And one of the things
(32:47):
she said to me that has really been fundamental to
my work is she didn't say to me, but I
just overheard her. She says to the students, do you
know that most people are thin not because of genetics,
but because of choice and that and I had to
sit and be like that really illuminated something to me
because at that point I was really struggling with my weight.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
I was really trying to lose it.
Speaker 5 (33:08):
I wanted to be I was buying into this capitalistic
idea that I'd be a better person if I were smaller.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
Yeah, would love me more, my work would be better.
People would gravitate to me more.
Speaker 5 (33:18):
And at the end of the day, when you think
about that statement, that and this is a whole white
thin woman that said this.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
Too, which I really appreciate. I appreciate when when white
people do when white people do the work like that. Okay, yeah, but.
Speaker 5 (33:39):
Like I especially with fat folks that have lost weight,
who shun fat folks for still being fat. I'm like, damn,
my nigga, you're really fighting yourself at every angle right
now because because not that there, I don't want to
take away Listen, people may be whatever, and I don't
want to take away that from them. But a lot
of people have you and attested to the fact that
(34:01):
they're actually unpappy because there is so much pressure to maintain,
to catch on, and to also live in this idea
that you are now accepting that people are approaching you,
and it be people from before that knew you when
you were a fact approaching you in a different way,
and it's disingenuous. You're only approaching me because I'm smaller now.
You're not approaching me because of my humanity. And that's
(34:25):
why I be telling people like, yes, like I don't
care what you do with your body. That is not
for me to discuss. At the same time, what you're
not gonna do is come up in here and tell
me how I'm wrong and how I'm irresponsible. Because I
chose to live me and do me and be me.
You're not gonna make me feel bad for that.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
I think I thought a lot with like, particularly in
regards to dating relationships, because I was talking to a
friend to friends recently about it's like dating and like,
how the getting is this fat person's very challenging because
of how many folks see fat bodies and how many
folks like I mean, I mean, like they're like the
amount of time is particularly like like I'm as a
(35:03):
queer male, the way I am that this I'll just
maybe it's fucked up up of me, of me to
say this, but there are there are some people out
there that are just like they're just not cute.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
They're just not cute. But there's but they're skinny and
they're thin, and so they all like they get all
the dick in the world. And I'm like, and I like,
it's really I really I hate to say it, but
I'm like, but I'm like, bitch, Like how how how
they're desirable that.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
The desira because of because of their of their thinness
and which I find so interesting. And then like you know,
someone had asked what, like would I ever consider like
what I consider like like weight loss is a weight
to be to be more desirable, And I'm like do
you you? And I respond, like you have to understand
that for me to do that, like like one, I
have to betray myself, but also but then like I
(35:55):
would not be able to trust a single person that
then approaches me because all I'll think about is, oh,
like like I could be the smartest pitch in the game,
I could be successful, I could be beautiful and everything
and brilliant and funny and other things, but it means
nothing because I'm fat, I'm not and like because then
(36:15):
now it means something to you. No, like that that
is not for me, Like I don't want I don't
want to be with somebody who like who like sees
all this and then it's like, oh, like now you're thin,
so so it's like like so, so I'm with it,
and thenversely like I also like then their response is like,
you know, watch date somebody who like like what what?
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Like why why don't you date a chaser? And I'm
like I don't I also want but why But.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
I'm like why First of all, I don't want to
be chasing just out you want to be chased, like
walking in hand with somebody they got chased, But like,
I don't understand how because like because I see it's like, well,
I don't want them to to all like my my
body when my fatness is not about my faintness just
exists as itself. I don't want to be like or
(37:00):
dislike because of it. I just want to exist like
in on my fact, on my fact glory because of
who I am. And so I find that very interesting.
And then John, I was gonna say earlier, can you
guys have some joy and we'll see. I was gonna
say to your parlier, I think a lot about is
like when this person, the person I came for you
for being out fleming is I get this? All I
can hear is this is this like white voice that's like,
(37:23):
how dare you survive.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Everything that we have put you through?
Speaker 6 (37:26):
Around?
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Dare you survive joyfully?
Speaker 6 (37:29):
Like?
Speaker 2 (37:29):
How dare we be happy about surviving? That's all I
can think about, is like, which that's that's literally where
my mind was. But thank you for same?
Speaker 3 (37:37):
I mean, I mean like like that voice is like
that subtext is so loud, like how like how dare you?
How did you not fall under under all the traps
that set for you? How dare you not fall down
for all the ways that pushed you and through all that?
Like like how do you smile at me for it?
Speaker 2 (37:55):
And flex on me?
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Like yeah, like that's that's just and and it makes
it I like it's it's it's just such a sad
things I think to you, right like John Evens said
you could like you could just eat with me, like
you could just eat with me? Said you would just
rather sit if you continue to tear me down and chay,
I see you see you got jump jump in.
Speaker 5 (38:19):
First of all, what I'm hearing when that person said
why don't you dat a chaser? Is I don't care
what the fuck happens to you. I don't care what
level of harm people think that that that fetishizing Because
again again this is me getting into my teacher bag.
One of I say, one of the one of the
extensions of desirability politics is commodifying identities is fetishism as
(38:42):
especially if you read Eating the Other by Bell Hooks,
a very great text, I highly recommend it to people.
This is a text that talks about how black bodies
in particular are commodified and fetishized by white people because
white people think that it's much cooler to treat them
that way than to actually own the actual ways in
which whiteness is harming black people, in the way in
which they are really you know, damaging black people and
(39:05):
their experiences. So for them to tell you why don't
you date a chasers? Them saying why don't you take
uh date someone that doesn't give two ships about you.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
You as a person, and they much rather see you for.
Speaker 5 (39:17):
Your fatness to consume and not for you Jordan as
the entire human being, and there's so many and you're
also a black person, a queer person on top of that.
So just the idea that they really think that this
is okay to even offer this as an idea or
mice they want.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
It's for both of y'all.
Speaker 5 (39:37):
What the crux of this conversation is, the white voice
I'm hearing is these niggas need to settle.
Speaker 4 (39:44):
But.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
We are and like and like. It needs to be
an us and not on the system that to be given.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
If I can, though, I want to say this, Chyenne,
and I wanted to say this to you in person.
I could have said it on social but I'm going
to say to you in person.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
I love you.
Speaker 4 (40:14):
Know.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
One thing that really opened up for me by following
you and by connecting with your work is this notion
of you need to like you. You had tweeted something
about crumbs a couple of months ago and I never
saw but before you tweeted that, I had never thought
about it from that context, right of like because I
(40:35):
am a you know you basically you were saying, because
I am who I am, because I'm doing all of
these things, I deserve more than the crumbs that life
gives me, and it literally sparked this thing in my
head and I said, Yanne is so right, like black
fat fems are forever given the crumbs and being told
you deserve it and that you should be okay with it.
Speaker 4 (40:55):
Right right, And this is my thing.
Speaker 5 (40:57):
If you always say and my fat ass is eaten,
why you not giving me the whole plate?
Speaker 4 (41:01):
Then you're afraid I You're afraid that I'm gonna eat it.
And I'm telling when you give me my.
Speaker 5 (41:10):
Philip Child surf and turf mill, better believe believe, I'm
gonna get my forking knife and I'm gonna dig into
that bitch, okay, because let me tell you something we
don't deserve, that we don't deserve to be left behind
and oh, we're gonna give you the scraps because you
know you don't deserve anything else and that and that
really hints from me because it's just this idea even me,
(41:31):
like you know, getting back into dating and stuff now.
And you know, I've been kind of quiet about it.
I talk about a little bit on social media. I've
been kind of quiet because my new phase is that
I just want people have less access to me in
my life. And I've really kind of like pushed away
from that because before I said, you know, there were
I didn't really have a lot of like representations of
(41:51):
fat black dating.
Speaker 4 (41:52):
Some of the only people I knew were like Ashley
Chubby Bunny, and a bunch of.
Speaker 5 (41:57):
Creators that really talks about sex from a fat black, yes,
a fat correct from a fat black experience. So I'm like,
you know, why don't I throw my hat in the
ring and I want to give people that experience. But
then people started getting a little too messy, and I'm like,
I don't want niggas speaking shit over me. I want
my ship to go smooth, you know, because I'm a
very spiritual person, so you know, words a powerful my
(42:21):
previous date and experiences. I was telling my my therapist
about how even that has evolved because as a fat back,
a fat black person, even a lot of people don't
even think that you deserve to be seen publicly. There
have been so many times where people, not just men,
but people in general have just been like, you know,
why don't we just just I just come over to
your house, or where do you live at or do
(42:42):
you live alone, or just trying to coerce me into
bed and not really care about my pleasure or consent
or my my my my needs, like, and I'm gonn
share this. I can't tell too much about my business.
I'm gonna tell a little bit, but not too much.
I'm just seeing someone and it's been really nice. He's
also a queer person who has been great and like,
(43:02):
we went on a date a couple of weeks ago
to the movies and we was feeding each.
Speaker 4 (43:06):
Other popcorn and kissing and holding hands and shit.
Speaker 5 (43:09):
And I told my therapist, like, I don't I'm kind
of nervous to tell you because it's kind of juvenile.
And she says to me, no, I like to hear that,
because that's that's healing, to hear that you are experiencing
these things. And I told her one of the reasons
why I was afraid to tell us because I didn't
know to trust it, because I'm not used to people
wanting to indulge in me in that give me the
(43:30):
space to be soft and to be flirty and to
be playful and to like people think a lot of
people have these misconceptions about me. And I don't want
to get on my soapbox, but I kind of have
to really quick go. People have these misconceptions about me
as a person where people think I'm standoffish or you know,
I can be very like cold or very like whatever.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
And I mean, I can understand why.
Speaker 5 (43:53):
But also some of that is attributing certain things, the
fact black people whole another conversation, But like, how you
if you're so busy critiquing me, God A windy, can
you realize that a lot of that is because y'all
don't see fat black people as multiplicity as and y'all
don't think that we can exist in these ways that
people are not allowing us to. So even the fact
that I was able to exist as my truest self,
(44:14):
my fun, playful, giggly, silly self, flury sensual self, was
freeing and liberating for me. So I really just think
in the context of this conversation, And Jordan, just to
your point. First of all, I just want to say,
you deserve everything. Everybody on this podcast deserves everything. That's
number one. Number two, Fuck that person that told you
(44:35):
to run after a chaser. May the skin forever be dry.
May they never see.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Person I don't know who you are.
Speaker 4 (44:51):
Well, Jurgons will never help you again.
Speaker 5 (44:55):
And and and Also, I just wanted to say that
I really think again, Yes, we can do the grassroots work.
Speaker 4 (45:03):
We can do a lot of work. We can have
these conversations.
Speaker 5 (45:05):
These are all helpful and pactful, absolutely, but things won't
change until the systems actually change. And you know, before
a big part of my work before this point, I
used to write about date and apps and how fat
friendly they were and lack thereof. That was a big
part of my work for a while, and one of
the biggest things was trying to really hold these date
and apps accountable, especially when you're talking about tender. We
(45:27):
talked about bumble, we talk about okay Cupid, and even
in the desirability politics conversation, because I've explained to my
students how dating apps are also a form of media
that we need to understand and really dismantle. I bring
up okay Cupid in twenty eighteen did a revamp or
a rebrand where they were trying to be more inclusive.
(45:48):
They were trying to be more like, we're not just
a hookup app. We want niggas to come up in
here and actually fall in love. But these all the
advertisements were all of thin, able bodied, white past and
you know the white girls were with the black men.
You know it wasn't It didn't feature no fat black
and fat people. It didn't feature no black fems, It
(46:08):
didn't feature nobody that that really could benefit from a rebrand.
You featuring people that could have got a date even
off of the app, like, you're not featuring people literally,
I hate you, but we also deserve to just exist
and breathe and just beating people falling over us too
(46:29):
without this, Oh I gotta hide you because you look
a certain way, or I'm afraid my mama gonna judge me.
Speaker 4 (46:34):
I don't give a fuck about your mama. Me and
your mama probably wear the same clothes. We could share clothes.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Let's be yes, you speak to the point I keep
I never it never falls on me. You know how
everybody a couple of months ago that whole Tank and
the Bangers yea, And yet how people seem to remiss
the idea that the main singer is a woman. I
(47:00):
want to assume, a woman of size, and this notion
of how she goes on to quote in that song
that they're only telling her that she's pretty at night
because they don't want to be seen with her there.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
They're not listening to the whole.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Thing, right, So people love the oh he's in my
DM saying I'm pretty, but no one's really talking about
the message. And I think you speak to something. You know,
we talked about this. I don't know what episode it was,
but I had talked about this, you know, when I
was in college. One of the things that I always
you know, and Joho, my heart. I always say my
heart goes out, not in the sense of it being like, oh,
my heart goes out to you and I'm trying to
feel sorry for you, but no, I know what it's
(47:37):
like to be young and to be queer and to
be black, and to be in a space where you
feel like you're not desired and people are trying to
give you every single Well have you tried this?
Speaker 2 (47:48):
And have you tried this? And like, have you? But
have you walked in my shoes? Do you understand what
the fuck I'm going through? Right? And so it's just it,
you know it.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
Whenever we talk about relationships and love and things, my
heart is always so close to you, Joho, because I
you know, I know, I have a couple of years
on you, and you look to me as mother and stuff.
But in this conversation, I think all three of us
are what we say. What we're all saying is this
shit is fucked up for all of us, and.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Love is not.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Even even though I've been in a relationship for a
long time, if my partner was to leave me tomorrow,
I would be terrified because I'm thinking to myself, I
would have to be back out into this world where
black fat people, black queer fat people are treated like shit.
You know, I already know what I'm walking back out to,
and so I think about that a lot. So I
(48:39):
think the word I want to say here is that,
you know, I don't really know what the right word is.
But what I will say is that I genuinely empathize.
That's what I'm wanting to say. I empathize because even
with the love that I have, I still understand how
fucked up joy is for us right, how much we
(49:00):
have to go through. If it's not relationships, it's work.
If it's not work, it's media. If it's not media,
it's family. If it's not family, it's friends. Like everywhere
we go, we're having to like basically choose our battles,
and it fucking sucks, you know, And so I just
wanted to say I truly hear you, you know. And
(49:21):
I don't think I've said that on the air, or
I don't think we've talked about that so directly. But
for anybody who's listening and who's going through it, and
who might be snapping their fingers right now, you know, love, Yes,
it is hard, and it is hard to find, especially
loving yourself in a world that's telling you every day
that you're not lovable. But what I will say is
that I also think that there's something to be said
(49:42):
about us finding our own joy.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
And we're gonna talk a little bit more about that
in the next segment.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
So when we come back, I will say this, We've
talked a lot about fun, We've talked a lot about
joy this past section, but we won't have none of
that if we don't pay none of these bills. So
when we get back, when we get back, we go
get into it a little bit more in another segment
for Go Love Yourself this week more in a second.
(50:10):
All right, everybody, So we are back with Go Love Yourself,
and this week, something I have been thinking a lot about,
especially having Cheyenne on the show, is really thinking about
how we rarely get to talk about the things that
bring us pleasure and open form. And what I mean
by that is I wanted to ask you all, how
do you receive pleasure? And what I mean by that
(50:31):
it doesn't necessarily everybody when we hear the work pleasure,
everybody start touching on these sales and the sixtions. That's
not what for me is always you know, pleasure don't
always get to be about the sixty.
Speaker 2 (50:41):
Time, and it can't be.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
It can be, but I will say for me, it's
not always about the sexy time. And what I'm talking
about is in this world that often tells you that
you should be grateful, Like we've mentioned in our last section,
you should be grateful for the little that you get.
I always think about the things that make me happy
or happiest. And one of the things that I fought
a lot about is how intentional people are, how people
(51:04):
intentionally listen to the things that I say or find
little things about me. So like one of the things
that means a lot to me, right, So I was
gonna I'll show you all on screen, you'll see. But anyway,
all that to be said, like when someone says, I
saw this and it made me think of you. And
I have friends and family who do that shit all
the time, and so like somebody sent me this, like
(51:26):
little this little you know, man, baby Gromu thing right,
And I have Grogu in my corner and right, and
I am by no means of Star Wars doll by
any means, but people know how much I love Grogu,
and I have friends who will find things or see
things and be like, oh, this reminded me of you,
and it just it makes me that that's joy and
(51:48):
pleasure for me because it means, oh, wow, you actually
pay attention to what I say or the things that
I like in love and that you know me well
enough to know that. So I wanted to ask you
all kind of the same question, like what what what
gets you to happy?
Speaker 2 (52:01):
Right? Or what has gotten you to happy? And what
makes you happier? And so we'll start with you, shann
and then we'll bump over to Joho.
Speaker 5 (52:07):
Okay, I'm a little I'm synthing a little bit because
I'm thinking about.
Speaker 4 (52:13):
Thinking about the person. But I love I love forehead
cook kisses.
Speaker 5 (52:19):
I love people send me music, especially if like I
send them music, and they kind of analyze the type
of music I listened to, and then they send me
stuff that's very similar to what I've sent.
Speaker 4 (52:28):
Like, it's the paying attention part and connecting.
Speaker 5 (52:31):
The dots without me giving you that, without me forcing
you to connect the dots.
Speaker 4 (52:35):
That's what I like. That makes my throb okay, I like.
I like when people give me really good anime recommendations. Also, Jordan,
I have something for you. So just yeah we got
(52:58):
yeah you mean you mean yes, yeah, we got a sidebar.
Speaker 2 (53:02):
I love that that we've made that connection.
Speaker 4 (53:05):
But go on. I love when people randomly buy me gifts.
Speaker 5 (53:10):
So when I had surgery for a fybroid removal last month,
and my friend came and stayed the week with me,
and she knows that I'm obsessed excuse me. They know
that I'm obsessed with Hello Kitty. So when they went
out to the store, they bought me a Hello Kitty makeup.
Speaker 4 (53:25):
Bag and that just made like, that just made my
whole day. So I love like little gifts.
Speaker 5 (53:31):
I love when people recognize the things that I enjoy
and they bring them up in conversation or they like,
you said something reminded me of you, So I'm gonna.
Speaker 4 (53:39):
Share that with you.
Speaker 5 (53:40):
It's really the intention and the thought and the consideration
that really brings joy.
Speaker 4 (53:45):
And I don't really be asking for much. Like listen,
if you're gonna give me a birkin bag, I ain't gonna.
Speaker 2 (53:50):
Look say no, you're gonna give me you want to
send it, I ain't gonna say. I'm not gonna say no.
Speaker 5 (53:57):
I'm not gonna say I'm not gonna I'll never say
to a cash baby good.
Speaker 4 (54:03):
I will say.
Speaker 5 (54:04):
I will say that I really enjoy the simplest, most thoughtful,
most intentional acts of kindness, because again, we don't.
Speaker 4 (54:14):
Get that often.
Speaker 2 (54:16):
Nope, Nope, I live, Thank you, thank you for that. Joho,
what about you? Baby? You are like I live, I
just live. I live, and I love.
Speaker 3 (54:27):
I love this topic because I just feel so wholesome
and so good. And I would I was gonna say, honestly,
it's like, it's to me, it's to me, it's it's
really giving love language which I love so so much,
or leaving the leaves. I can answer it through through
this framework. So I would say, first like words of
affirmation are fully what bring me pleasure.
Speaker 2 (54:46):
It makes me feel the most seen and I'm affirmed.
Speaker 3 (54:49):
And I think I think I also love it because
it doesn't come from a place of not receiving it,
you know, like some people need it because they haven't
received it. But like I, like I grew up being
loved by my parents, which I think was I know,
like I thought was normal as the kid, I realized
it's actually such a privilege. And so I think it's
because I've received so much that's informed how I received
pleasure in this way, Like nothing feels very few things
(55:10):
fulfill more wholesome than someone says that they see me
and she shares with me through the words how they
see me. I also receive pleasure through cality time, whether
it's with self or others, Like there is truly nothing
more rewarding for me than picking up a bomb assmal,
whether it's a little olive our moment or some bomb
ash fish talco a long I mean a long ass
(55:33):
fucking week and going to the park just to relax
at sunset and breathing them trees, Like there is.
Speaker 2 (55:39):
Nothing better than that. I literally the amount of times
am I in mind.
Speaker 3 (55:48):
The way in my last apartment, I lived a block
from this park and me, me and my neighbor every
Shabbot Friday night, we would like we would we pick
up dinner and we walk to the park, the little
two block walk.
Speaker 2 (56:01):
And just sit and talk and like there was something,
there was some thing there was like a very few
things that was more special than that. I think.
Speaker 3 (56:06):
Also, it's like within that it's sharing food with somebody,
Like sharing a meal with somebody, whether I cook for
them or I mean if they if they cook for me,
which I'm like, if you don't come for me, girl
makes you cook right because I cooked down, So I
need to know that you can throw down that kitchen
with me, Okay, But like if we can share me
together like that, that that to me is like the
the epitime of pleasure is pitting me a joy, Like
(56:27):
I get nothing but joy from that.
Speaker 2 (56:29):
So I love, love, love love that question so much. Sean,
thank you.
Speaker 5 (56:35):
Now I've got a couple more. I'm sorry, Yes, our
show things that also bring me joy, A good dispensary
run after.
Speaker 4 (56:47):
Payday, okay, Okay. Also I love cooking for people too.
I thought about that and just I'm sorry, but my
praise can't cabin ask can't.
Speaker 5 (56:57):
Just I just got to say it. I love when
people me like that. I firm others often, but I
really enjoy people affirming me and like you. Like I
also have parents that are very like big on making
sure that I felt loved and seen and things like that.
Speaker 4 (57:09):
But like, I definitely really love that. To Jordan's so.
Speaker 2 (57:13):
Right here, baby, ms okay, I live for it. I
live for it. We bringing people together since nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 1 (57:24):
Come on me, yes, come on me, I live. I
love this, I genuinely do. And you know what I
will say real quick. I was gonna also say, food
is my also one of my love languages. So for
those of y'all who got DIBs with like Krispy Kreeb
and all the other donut places, Randy's all the all
of the donuts over and.
Speaker 2 (57:45):
Randy's here, and send you go right by my office.
I know, baby, oh, I know there's a job we
were going.
Speaker 1 (57:50):
I keep tabs. I know Randy's is number two on
my list of my favorite donuts. I will say this,
and if you want to send me a donut cut,
you can always do that. Food is what way to
speak to me.
Speaker 2 (58:00):
Baby.
Speaker 1 (58:01):
Let's just go on and speak to me through food.
But with that being said, Oh God, Lord, why am
I taking all of the breaks?
Speaker 2 (58:08):
Joe? Do you want to take this break? I mean,
you wrote the script, yess all, not taking Lord whatever I'm.
Speaker 4 (58:16):
Looking to give us.
Speaker 2 (58:17):
What the fuck am I doing taking all these basnyway?
Speaker 1 (58:19):
You know what brings me Joe, knowing that these commercials
are giving us revenue. So with that being said, we
are going to take what FO break and when we
get back, we will get into y'all favorite segment, Yes
ma'am and no man Pam more than a me.
Speaker 2 (58:41):
Fam. We are back with y'all start segment. It is
a yes ma'am and no man Pam for this week's
yes ma'am Pam. Sorry I'm laughing because y'all, I done
left the blank. I was just I'm a listener, y'all.
I'm gonna I know what I live.
Speaker 3 (59:00):
A blank I left to open because I knew conversation
which I would good it.
Speaker 2 (59:06):
So my yest man Bam is too is too Chyenne M.
Speaker 3 (59:10):
Davis today because hot damn the way, y'all, let me
tell you the way, I had no idea what to
expect and just popped on and this love is wearing.
Like I said this amazing Akatski attire with a cowboy
be pop tattoo, the way my anime heart was filled up,
and the way that they have just schooled us this episode.
(59:32):
Like like like John, I have been recording quite a
bit these past yaw, we are doing that to back
to back to back to back to back. And the
way energy is still in the way that literal energy
up like my yes, literally is fucking to you like you.
Speaker 2 (59:49):
I truly cannot wait for us to be BFFs after
this moment. I am just so it's you and so
I just I live for this. So you you were
my guest and Pam My no man, Pam. Today I
would say, oh my no man, Pam at President, you know,
I would just say.
Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
It's just it's just it's it's just to every state
doing stupid things. It's just to every state politician and
government doing stupid things. I just I don't understand. Like
y'all are so worry y'all are so worried about trans
folks and bathrooms, y'all so worried about crito race theory.
Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
Y'all also are all these things. Bitch, can you fix
the planet?
Speaker 5 (01:00:30):
Like can you?
Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
Can you please stop us from burning up. Could you
please go say the glacier or something?
Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
I said, y'all, y'all so worried about banning us, but
got the nerve to say that you can't ban no one.
Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
Which I and I just want to say you you
want to be in us, for they're the ones who
got in this mess to begin with.
Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
Can you be in yourselves instead like y'all sucking this up?
Speaker 3 (01:00:51):
Like you need to look in the mirror baby and
go band yourself and take yourself to jail because I
cannot do it anymore.
Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
So my no man, Pamas saw all that, Cheyenne, how
about you are your yes?
Speaker 4 (01:01:03):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (01:01:04):
Before I get into that, thank you for all the
wonderful compliments. I also wanted to give a shout out
to Keema Is who made this dress and is a
black It's k I M O t O k I.
I'll send you all the ad name Black Woman owned
(01:01:26):
by Riha Parker. Ria Parker will also give her name to.
She makes anime lingerie like I just bought an not
set that's coming. She has like a jujitsu kaisen.
Speaker 4 (01:01:39):
Lingerie set coming in like she has a bunch of stuff,
So I definitely yeah, so this is a dress made
by them. Love it my yes, ma'am, Pam. I can't
talk much about it because of n d as.
Speaker 5 (01:01:50):
But my work, my job is testing out a four
day work week, so my full time job that I
work at, I'm very excited for that, you know, love
to have a fifth day so I can do my
screenwriting and stuff like that. My my no man, Pam,
is that, uh, I'm still not making enough money.
Speaker 4 (01:02:10):
I'm broke. And I'm not saying it's about my job.
Speaker 5 (01:02:12):
It's not about my job, just life in general with them,
with them, with the stuff, you know, with with the
with the price is going up, and like rent being
what it is, you know, you know, a nigga trying
to make it. Okay, I'm doing my African American best
words of my friend Jermay. They coin, they coined this,
(01:02:33):
so I'm gonna give them full credit for using this.
But yeah, I'm doing my African American best.
Speaker 4 (01:02:38):
So yeah, my no man.
Speaker 5 (01:02:39):
But in all seriously, my no man, Pam is definitely
just this inflation and this mooming recession. Even though niggas
saying we not have one baby, it's something that's being recessed.
Whether it's a hair, whether it's a hair of mine,
whether it's the economy.
Speaker 4 (01:02:57):
Something is in recession, I will.
Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
Recessed, That's what.
Speaker 4 (01:03:05):
And I wish these hating ass niggas would recess on
the way away from me.
Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
To get out of here.
Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
Thank you, point point and oh my god, you said
I'm doing my African American best. I'm just put that
on my headline. I literally my headline African American mess.
Oh my gosh. But anyway, I love that. Thank you,
Thank you for again. Yes, I understand it, and we're
gonna try to make sure we put some coins in
(01:03:32):
your pocket with that being said, my yes, ma'am. For
this week, there's a story coming out of NYC about
and I didn't know anything about this story, so it
was kind of new to me. But I guess there
were some queer men who had been poisoned basically last year,
and there were a couple of men who have been
(01:03:53):
connected to the poisonings. I guess there was one gentleman
who had come home in a taxi cab and when
they got home, they basically we passed away because of
something that was put in their drink.
Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
And so there had been all this hubb Love about it. Again,
hubb Love, I didn't hear anything.
Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
About the and again I only glanced at the story,
so I might be kind of wrong, But I do know.
What I will say that I know for a fact
that is true is that some of I would say
maybe three or four of the people who are connected
to this, they've all been arrested. The people who have
been connected to these cases have been arrested. And I
(01:04:27):
will say this, I have a very hard time celebrating
people being arrested. But like you said earlier in the show,
two things can be true at the same time. Is
it really fucked up what they did and that they're
getting their come up and from it? Yes, I'm happy
that they are being held accountable. However, I just I
know the system and I know how things are gonna go.
And they and it looked like the picture that I saw.
(01:04:49):
They looked like men of color. So that also makes
me really scared because I already know what the system
is going to do to them for this. So there
is this thing for me, I think for me, the
biggest thing. I will say this in terms of the yes, ma'am,
and I will, like I said, I will link this
story to the actual our, to our footnotes. But what
makes me happy is that I'm relieved that certain folks
who are connected to this story are getting the closure
(01:05:11):
that they that they've been wanting or what they've been
you know, kind of fighting the law for. And I'm
it makes me sad that it's taken almost a year
for them to get that closure, but I'm really happy
that we're at least there. My no man Pam this week,
so I y'all, and fuck, we're gonna end up on
RuPaul's drag Race again. And I've been saying that I
(01:05:32):
don't shyan't. So every time we do this damn show,
we always end up at the end of the show
talking about RuPaul's drag Race. And I'm really fucking sick
of it. And it's nothing against Rue Paul. It's nothing
against the drag queens. We have had some of the
girls on the show. I love them, Bam, you know
you are all by girl. But I just thought, every
(01:05:53):
fucking show we always end on RuPaul's drag Race, and
I'm so fucking over anywhere.
Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
I have to say this.
Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
So a friend of me, a friend of mine, a folk, yeah,
a friend of mine sent me a, I don't know
if it's a TikTok or a real whatever the fuck
it was of what is do any of y'all watch
Real Housewives of Beverly Hill, Lisa Lisa, not Lisa Vander,
Lisa Renna. Right, So a friend of mine sent me
(01:06:22):
he was either real or TikTok of Lisa Renna doing
that whole from this season, you know, walk the duck
and she was like dancing to it, and you know,
and I know.
Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
People they're probably like, oh, what's the harm in Lisa
Reena enjoying that? Mine?
Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
No, man, Pam is I'm just somewhat annoyed about all
these straight white women who think that because they have
some friends with the sprinkle of color, that they understand
the issues or the struggles or even our linguistics of
queer people. Right, especially knowing that Anitria is a person
of color. It just really bugs me something something, And
(01:06:56):
I can't really put my full hands on what it
is that bugs me about these like rich white women
who have like co opted the queer spaces. Something about
it really really bugs the fucker.
Speaker 4 (01:07:10):
I'll tell you what it's given.
Speaker 5 (01:07:11):
First of all, I just want to confirm Lisa runned
us the girl from the soap operas correct, the one
that the one that the green eminem.
Speaker 4 (01:07:20):
Costsplayed in the media. Yeah, yeah, Lisa would trying to
be Reba McIntyre with that haircut. But we're not from
getting too that anyway.
Speaker 5 (01:07:32):
But anyway, it's given like you know when the white
people do mission projects to Africa and it's like, look
at all these savage children just having fun, and I
want to join in.
Speaker 4 (01:07:41):
It's the same thing, but the queer version.
Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
Okay, okay, it's just it's just I.
Speaker 5 (01:07:45):
Feel I know, I'm removed because I have money and
I have privilege, but I want to be down because
it's so cool that I just want to take the
culture and not actually help the people.
Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
Wells that say it's like and it's also it's also
the white gays who give them the.
Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
A gaggle of white gaze and the way that they
always i'm gaggle, do not you you do.
Speaker 3 (01:08:10):
Not because, as we said earlier, whiteness trumps all, so
do not just because you have a gay friend who
is when they're white, they do they know no, no,
don't don't do it.
Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
Don't do it. Yeah, it's just it.
Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
Yeah, so yes to all of that plus yes, And
like I said, it's just I'm really just done with
people who only I guess I'll say this and I'm
gonna keep saying it until I'm blue in the face
because obviously no one in the world's listening. But I'm
just really tired of people who love us when it's convenient,
(01:08:46):
who love our culture when it's convenient. It's giving fine
favor in our culture when it's giving out here.
Speaker 3 (01:08:52):
But she will not answer a question of who famous
black person is. She won't She won't know a black
black trans You won't put no money.
Speaker 4 (01:09:01):
Towards, put no money towards, no efforts.
Speaker 2 (01:09:04):
Okay, right right, that that's what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
Like all of these big name people love our culture,
love drag, race, love the love, quote unquote. I love
my gay friends. But we're out here being targeted left
and right, front and center, up and down, back and
around and nothing like I'm I'm nothing. It's just it's
really Yeah, that's.
Speaker 5 (01:09:28):
Hundreds of bills being passed and being offered to literally
kill us. Y'all have all this money and access to
get out there and actually implement change, to actually push
forth change, and the most you could do is a
medio grass duck walk.
Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
Look, look that's where I'm at. That's where I'm at.
I'm just that that for me is my no man Pam.
Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
This week it's people, basically, in so many words, people
who are co opting queer spaces and are not doing
anything to help us prevail. Like that's really what I
have and that's all I have left to say. So
with that being said, this again has been another fantastic
my favorite episode. It's like every weekend like this is
(01:10:08):
my favorite episode because it really is. This has been
an absolutely shan Thank you so much for coming on
the show. I mean, you have no truly how much
it means when people come on the show and they
genuinely are on the show, want to be on the
show and want to talk about things. It just again,
you've kept my spirits up for the whole hour that
we've been recording, and me and Jojo have been on
(01:10:30):
his computer since what.
Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
Five thirty, so we have had a night.
Speaker 1 (01:10:36):
But all that to be said for folks, if you
want to send your thoughts, your feedback and emails, please
send those over to Blackfatfempod at gmail dot com. We
do check our emails. If Joho doesn't catch it, I
definitely will or one of our producers will. You can
also send us your thoughts via social media by interacting
with our posts on Instagram, Twitter, or by using our
handle Blackfatfempod Schyan. Where can the Dolls find you?
Speaker 5 (01:10:58):
You can find me everywhere at shimod, especially on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter,
and Twitch, especially twitch y'all because come on Twitch so
as c h E y m O d double e.
So that's where you can find me. And yeah, I'll
be around Queen yoh.
Speaker 2 (01:11:15):
Where can the Dolly.
Speaker 4 (01:11:18):
Of course family?
Speaker 3 (01:11:19):
You can find me at Joe Hoo Daniels across all
those socials or in the skies. N Yu asking folks
where Shayan's classes are, and yes, I know it's online,
but I will show up. I have YU begging for
a class number.
Speaker 2 (01:11:35):
Where can I find the class?
Speaker 1 (01:11:38):
Yes, online, looking for a class number, like I'm gonna
just enroll myself because I need all of this goodness
well as for me and for for for this girl
over here.
Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
I found shout out this, there is this.
Speaker 5 (01:11:50):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (01:11:51):
I think I may have said this in one of
the episodes, and I'm gonna just say it again because
it bears repeating. There's a new donut shop called Cakes
among Us by Me and Baby. When I tell you
that they make the best donuts, like the best donuts
that I have had in a very little they also
they make cakes, and they make cupcakes and they make
(01:12:12):
donuts like it literally is a literally my you know me,
you know, sugar is going to be my downfall everything.
I go get a piece of cake, I go get
a cupcake, and I go get a donut. It is
the best day of my life. So I just want
to say that is where you are going to find
me in my It just it just never misses. You
can also find me before. You can find me there
(01:12:33):
before I leave for Paris. I leave for Paris.
Speaker 2 (01:12:34):
Things. Uh what in a week?
Speaker 4 (01:12:36):
Excited?
Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
Yes, yes, yes, tellyans Lou Honey, you can.
Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
Find me at Doctor John Paul. Visit the website ww
dot doctor Jobpaul dot com. We want to think amazing
supervising producers Rebecca Ramos at Baby Wang and executives, super
producer and a has on everyone over at iHeartMedia. There
would be also no show without our editor Chris Rogers.
(01:13:08):
We want to thank them for just working with us
this week. You know, it's it's late, it's just late,
and I've been working since A thirty this morning.
Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
And this is what y'all gonna get. I love y'all,
I really do.
Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
We love you, and that is why we continue to
keep it pushing even when the show has to stop.
With that being said, this has been another show. Thank
you for listening, and remember that Pineapple goes on pizza.
Apple is the superior.
Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
Band behind it. Sugar does, in fact, grits. I'm gonna
keep saying I love us all for real.
Speaker 4 (01:13:48):
Bye bye, bye
Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
Bye
The Black Fat Film Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
and Doctor John Paul LLC. Hey everyone, welcome to another
episode of the Blackfat Film Podcast, where all the intersections
of a dentity are celebrated. I'm one of your hosts,
John also known as Doctor John Paul, and I'm just
here to say that now that my winter fat has gone,
I now have spring rolls drama.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
How are you, Jordan?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Whenever I hear anything rolls, I was listen Edward's back rolls.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I live for you. Hey, fam, what's good?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
It is your other fave hosts, Joe or Jordan for
TROMP proper with it? And I just have I just
have to ask. I'm really curious when will the revolution begin?
Gas prices are rising, the housing market is a mess,
Climate change is ruining us, and I I'm just.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Over America right now. Let's just tear. I'm ready for it.
I'm ready for a change. Unplugging, unplugging, hard, Reboot please hard?
Where is the reset button? Where's the where's the sweet mode?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Can you just you can see Jesus just pressing reset
on Earth. Literally press reset.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
That's actually what should be about Earth. Okay, you don't
need to come back.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Back.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Just reset it it go girl. It is a mess.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
But all that to be said, I'm happy that we're
both here. We are here with another amazing number three
in our seat. Now I'll just say this real quick.
This person is a favorite of mine. I've been I've
been following them forever in the day before they took
our blue checks away. And what I will say is
that I was really excited when our show got announced
because obviously, when you like to release the show, folks
(01:53):
who you want to invite, who do you want to
have come?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
And your name was literally at the top of that list.
So I'm just so grateful that you are here.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
They are a journal list, a digital content creator, a podcaster,
and when I say, a badass writer, screenwriter. Y'all need
to make sure that your eyes are on them because
they are coming for our next They being highlighting, not literally,
like they are crafting content that's not only inclusive, highlighting
(02:21):
fat and you know, black and queer experiences in terms
of characters. But I love I will say this. I
don't know a lot about anime. I don't know a
lot about like the gaming world and all of that,
but I do appreciate when black queer people, they like,
they push themselves into the space and they make room
for themselves. So give it a for I guess this
week Schayenne and Davis, how oh my.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
God, Okay, I'm shook at that intro. You got to
run that back.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
They're like really good with these intros.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
And I just been going off with what y'all have
to give me, I said, when they when they give
me something to work with, I work with what they Yeah,
so you gave me something good to work with.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
You I'm doing today, you know, blessed and highly favored and.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Okay, okay, yep, that's that. I know that's right. Anytime
the nights are on, it's a good day.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I know that. Sorry, yes, God nows so well. We're
gonna get into our weekly old to Tisha Campbell and.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
We've been doing.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
We are literally close to episode fifty, and that still
takes me down every time I think about why we
have a opening with the old t Campbell.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Honestly, why she has not reached out to us yet.
I'm surprised she has not said anything to us yet.
I know, you listen somewhere, I know, somewhere around someone
send you this segment and you're.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Like, that's somebody tsha And it's not funny because the
song is very the context of the song is absolutely terrible. However,
I just love the fact that her performance, she was
so much in her y'all are never I'm never gonna
get tired of talking about but anyway, in our old
to it's in our old to teach Campbell, I wanted
to ask we hear so much junk about people who
(04:22):
want to change this or that, or but I really
wanted to have a conversation this week, or I wanted
to kind of bring up the topic what is something
about yourself that you don't want to change? And what
I mean by that is, I know, for me, my
size is something that I've always wrestled with. I've always
wrestled with the notion of, you know, my energy, how
big I am. And when I say big, I'm talking
(04:44):
about body and my also my personality. And after years
of thinking about how the world has trying to damn
again both my size and my personality, and I'm learning
and leaning into the idea that it is okay for
me to be. You know this quote unquote extra that
a lot of people say, well, you're so extra, right,
and kind of getting too this place of being like,
you know what, I like being extra. I like being loud,
(05:06):
I like being the big, fat black girl that walks
into the room right, and so really leaning into this
idea that me being extra is really who I am
and it's what makes the world better. And I know
it's cliche, but I did want to ask that, like,
sometimes I think we need to hear that it's okay
to be who we are. So I wanted to give
us a moment to kind of step back and think
about that.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
So we'll start with you. I'm Cheyenne. I would love
to know what are your thoughts, and then will pop
over to you joho.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
So just a quick sidebar. I was talking to my
therapist today about my goals, and one of my goals
from last year was living in my identity and not
feeling like it was a hindrance to me. For a
very long time, I just felt like me as a
person because of all the things I have experienced, the
intersections I exist in, the margins that I'm sitting on,
(05:54):
living on, laying on, working on. I just felt that
it was just difficult because the things I experience online
and such, but today I'm really here to say, you know,
one thing I don't want to change about myself is
my resilience. And I don't want to talk about resilience
in the old toxic positivity way because listen, a girl, listen,
(06:15):
your boy's gonna rest when they need to rest. I'm
gonna tell you all that right now, but I'm not
trying to say it from that perspective, but more so
like this ability for me to just take the time
to know that need to process and continue moving forward
and just going with the punches and rolling and being
more fluid. So let me actually change the word, not
my resilience, my fluidity in all essences of that word,
(06:36):
because no matter how my body changes, how my gender
expression changes, how the ways that I feel about the
world that I exist in changes or evolves, I definitely
feel that my ability to be fluid in the spaces
that I'm in has really helped me to be who
I am and has really affirmed me.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
As a person.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yes, And I just want to say real quick, the
fluidity of being able to give glam at almost ten
o'clock eleven o'clock at night is what's also like I
wish y'all could truly see how amazing.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Dress in the fins of attire. If you know, you
fucking know, don't you have? You have you have to
find out?
Speaker 1 (07:21):
You don't you gotta you gotta. I gotta figure it
out home, you gotta figure it out.
Speaker 6 (07:26):
I live.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
But thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
I love the word fluidity because I think that that
even hearing you mentioned that, like, I got chills. Next,
seriously got chills because I'm thinking to myself, Wow, like
how awesome is it to be able to step back
and within yourself and say I am on this. I
think that's the thing we've really tried to kind of
like create around this show is this notion of we're
(07:48):
all on a journey, we're all trying to figure this
this ship out, especially in a world that really doesn't
want us here and doesn't really like us being here,
And this notion of you being able to say that
in any situation, you're able to kind of benew and
do what you need to do to love who you
are and be who you are.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
So I love the word fluidity. Thank you, Like I'm
literally gonna take that with me. But what about your
joho same same.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
I'm also taking that, so thank you, thank you for
giving us that I would say for myself, I don't
want to change my tenderness like I'm a sensive I'm
a tendernie.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
I'm a sensive person.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Sometimes to a fall. I mean, I can be a
postch over. I can be a people pleaser, and we
just discussed that in our last episode.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
But it makes me.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
I believe, it makes me deeply empathic and helps me
understand people, their feelings and their experiences.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Like I love in sensive.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I love.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
I love that I cry. I cry when I dog
dies in a movie. I like. I love. I love
that when someone's hurting that I'm able to sit with
them and hold with them.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
I love that I'm sensitive. I you know, I I
injustices like it makes me feel like I'm a stronger person.
I know folks sometimes say that one should not be sensitive,
and like if my especially like like like through through
a black context, specially being raised by a black man,
tell me I should be sensitive, I shouldn't be a
s c like, I continue believing that being sensitive is
my superpower.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
It makes me the strongest version of myself.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
And so I never want to change it even when
I like, I remember people who have told me in
life like like you won't get far in life being
sensitive or kind.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I'm sorry, where's your podcast?
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Dot?
Speaker 6 (09:23):
I'm just one of the Apple and and and let's
talk our ship because we are on the front of
the Apple page under new and no, so let's.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Let's talk about it. So this so thank you so
much by politely or disrespectfully disagree.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Okay, Look, I know that, right, y'all gonna hear me
saying that a lot, because literally it is a whole vibe.
And I'll say to that to your point, Joe, you've
and I know you've mentioned in you know, prior episodes. Right,
we did a whole episode around softness. Softness, and I
think one of the things that I think is important
in hearing both of you talk about fluidity and softness,
the whole concept of like the soft life is that, right, like,
(10:05):
we spend our whole lives beating ourselves up, and we
spent our whole lives trying to even someone said on today,
I was on my peloton and the woman said, you know,
you have to love your body. You can't beat your
body up and hate your body. Into it becoming a
body that you love. I think about that a lot.
A part of being sensitive and being soft and really
loving who you are, it's recognizing that you have to
(10:27):
do the work to do that. So I love that
both of you are mentioning like fluidity and kind of
ebbing and flowing and moving, but also recognizing too, like
who you are is what makes you amazing.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I'll live for it. Thank you for opening up our
show that way. Go ahead, go ahead, Sorry.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
I would like to speak to that point too.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
As a black community, Sorry, we definitely have this very
toxic relationship with hyperindependence, so that it's taking it's telling
us a step away from what community means. It's telling
them to step away from what multiplicity means. It's it's
literally us kind of stepping into further into whiteness. Because
I'm sorry, hyperindependence is very anti black.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
This is something that I teach my students. I also,
you know, I also teach a class at.
Speaker 5 (11:13):
N YU when they ask you to carry a course
around marginalized communities and media.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
But we'll talk more about that later. But I I
tell my students how one.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
Of the hallmarks of tropes and like creating personas around blackness.
Is this idea, idea that black people are created to
save people and to nurture others and to give storylines
to others, to literally be not even burking bags, not
even a Kate's Bade bag, but like a Walmart shopping
bag excess level for people like so, Mils, I'm not
(11:46):
trying to talk about Walmart.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
I'm just trying to give y'all listen. They really trying
to make a break.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
That bad that Carrie Bradshaw Gage Jordan.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
I have been waiting my whole life to talk about
this fucking bag.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Can I.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Felt like that bag was so fat phobic, something about
that exchange fund. First, first of all, first of all,
this your personal assistant is getting married.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
Okay, you get this ugly ass Louis Bauton slash dony
and burke ass bag that.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
Girl.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
I'm on now, Louis would have never even made that bag.
I was like, there's no way hell they would have
sold that bag anywhere. I do not understand, and I
agree that it was a fat phobic to get to
get to give Louise her own bouton like this?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
How dare you do her like this? How dare you
never in.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
My life here that bag.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yeah, I y'all, y'all are y'all lit?
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Okay, now that we know that we are still here
in all of our fullness light Tisha Campbell, we got.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Our way to our first break. We'll be back after
a minute and talk about pleasure with our amazing guests. Bam,
we are back.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
And the one thing that I know that we know,
Shane you talk a lot about in your work, it's
pleasure activism.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
And while we won't errow all your day laundry right now.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
On the show, John mentioned something that thought was really interesting, okay,
that you talk about the guilt that can come with pleasure,
especially when you're living your best life.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
So I'd love to first open the conversation with you
just sharing a little bit more about this.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Well, let's be honest.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
When you exist in a larger body, you are constantly
being told that you have to exist outside of it.
You're being told in order to live any type of happiness,
exist in any type of happy happiness, embracing any type
of happiness, and also for your interpersonal relationships to work,
you have to be smaller in every essence of that word.
(14:11):
And I was never made as a person to be smaller.
I've been fat my whole life. I've always been outspoken
in some capacity my whole life. I'm sure I've battled
with being seen and heard for who I am in
my fullness, and that is something that I'm coming into
the season that I'm still combating. It's life, it happens.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
We can't.
Speaker 5 (14:29):
We have to fight white supremacy every day. However, we
got to understand when you're being told not to be yourself,
there's a level of guilt when you do have access
to those doors that open you up to your fullest self.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
So whether that be.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Having or orgasm, whether that be have a community that
actually makes sense and works for you and actually embraces
you as a human being, whether that be trying to
heal from old traumas and past wounds. Because I feel
like there's a level of pleasure in that too, Because
people think pleasure just means oh, I'm fucking and that's it,
or I'm masturbating. No, pleasure is happiness, it's joy, joy,
(15:02):
it's yeah, it's the ability to be unabashedly yourself and
to really connect with your child self and be like,
I'm bringing you along this journey so that you can
smile too, especially in the times where and doing the
activities where you never thought you could.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Have those opportunities.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Baby, you are okay, so if you coming out the gate,
how And I appreciate all of it because so I
just wrote a story a couple of weeks ago for
Auto Straddle, and you know, one of the things that
I wrote in the article was about the guilt that
comes with just honestly being happy. And I think that's
(15:38):
one of the things that you know, I've noticed right
specifically with certain folks around me. I've noticed that the
happier that I've become, the more comfortable I've become in
my skin, the more comfortable I've become in my bag.
Right there, there is this notion of folks trying to
subtly cut you, to make you feel guilty about that
(15:59):
pleasure and the joy that you have and really knowing
too that And I love so much what you said
and it kind of ties to this, right how we
as black fat fems kind of always have to like
we can never be in the store and enjoy what's
happening in the store. We have to be outside the
window looking in. And I think that there's so much
(16:20):
around that.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
You remember.
Speaker 5 (16:25):
I remember one time I told my therapist, I feel
like I'm watching everybody else live my life, and that
was the moment I realized. I realized that this nigga
was outside the club and they couldn't even get into
their own club, at their own party, at their own
VIP section.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
It's like, I put all this work into my life
to be conditioned to living it for other people.
Speaker 5 (16:50):
Because again, people, and listen, I may have a cancer mars,
so sometimes I can come off very motherly, are very
parentally in a lot of ways, but at the same time, listen,
it's difference between just naturally being a leader and being
mammied into a position. And in a lot of cases,
I be mammied into a position where people are like,
you got to make sure that you're.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Responsible for everybody's thoughts and feelings. You got to make
sure you're responsible for everybody else's happiness before yours. You
got to make sure that you're doing the work so
that people can digest and consume the work, but they're
not necessarily using utilizing the work to ameliorate the status
quo or to.
Speaker 5 (17:24):
Even ameliorate themselves. So a lot of times you're doing
a lot of this fucking work right just to be
paid crumbs. Like I be telling my students when it
comes to fat black people in particular, it's given mother
hen syndrome.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
I'm like, have y'all ever read the story of the
mother Hen?
Speaker 5 (17:38):
Where you got all these niggas sitting around the cat?
Don't want to help with the grain, the horse of whatever.
Don't want to put the bread in the oven. Now
when the bread is fixed, everybody want to eat now
where you are not having my sour dough loaf.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
Remember remember when Kimberly Elisee was eating in front of Charles,
That's what I'm gonna be eat.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Will this.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
Getting any of this? I know?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Not the top movie. No, not Charles.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Oh my god, Okay, who okay, I'm I'm so I'm
really happy that I'm really happy that that that that
you were gone there, because I was like I was gonna,
I was gonna originally say like not to go there,
but also to go there. But I love that you
were going in there because it feels like, and I
think you mentioned before, like this is such a tool
of white supremacy to punish us for building whether it's joy, wealth,
(18:38):
or pleasure, like as people of color when non when
non color have built this for themselves throughout life without
any repercussions, to your point, often at the expense of us.
So I would love, love, love, love to have your
thoughts on like, how how might you envision tools to
break down these like to break down these ratualizations of us.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
And if I can say real quick too, I not
to get away from that question, but I also love
that you're teaching students to think about this too, because
I think this is something that I just wanted to
kind of put into from an educational standpoint. We we
tend to teach black people that part of our liberation
is through academia, and that's not always true. So I
appreciate you teaching the kids, But go on, thank you.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Okay, I'm gonna work backwards. I'm gonna speak to you first.
Do you want me to address you as doctor Higgins.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Or John baby John?
Speaker 5 (19:30):
Okay, listen, I just like to ask, Yeah, I'm good
to speak to your point.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
John.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
One of the things I'd be telling people about academia
is that it feels a lot of us. Okay, It's
an institution of white supremacy, institution of capitalism, and it's
also built off of slave labor.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
We can't avoid them.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
Most of these schools like Yale, Rutgers, so on, and
so forth have been chartered through slave labor. So we
have that own those heritage, the heritage behind that. That's
number one. Number two. When it comes to my students,
I try to create a classroom that is a safer environment,
that has built off of mutual respect, that is built
off of openness, but it's also built off of brutal honesty.
(20:15):
The first day of class and the last day of class,
I make them do an sectionality checkpoint. You name what
your intersections are and how you navigate in the world.
I also participate in this activity because I don't really
teach a lot of black students, and the black students
I do teach, a lot of them are multiracial or biracial.
A lot of them come from a lot of money,
you know, I teach at NYU. A lot of these
students have a lot of access to things that I've
(20:36):
never had access to. And even though I did grow
up with some privilege too, like I've lived in a
two parent household, and then there were upper middle class.
So I do understand what that comes with. I'm still
a black person, I'm still a fat person, still a
gender expansive person. So I try to break it down
from them since day one that we have to look
at everything. You can't just hold one identity and cast
(20:57):
away everything, especially if you're not a white Now white
people it's a little different because yes, white people can
have marginalizations, they are still white. That white is gonna
trump everything, so we have to all hold that. So
now to your question, Jordan, the question was your question
was how do we envision a different world?
Speaker 4 (21:16):
The last class of the last lecture of the class is.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
Building a better world through media Because I'm like, we're
gonna talk through about all this shit that y'all can
go through and all the different ways in which.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
People are being marginalized and oppressed and disparaged.
Speaker 5 (21:29):
We all, I said, you can't talk about the good
the bad without emphasizing the importance of what we need
to do with this because listen, I said, I can
give y'all ship ton of information, you still need to
find tools and strategies.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
On how to implement that information.
Speaker 5 (21:43):
So one of the first one of the first things
I talk about is white white guilt and also like
the responsibility of white white people breaking down racism and
whiteness because at the end of the day, yes, I'm
doing my job, I'm still a black person. White white
people have to teach other white people how to be
in racist, how to to to dismantle and how to
(22:03):
do anti whiteness work. The second thing is that I
tell them it's great that y'all have black characters and
and marginalized characters on screen, you gotta have them off
screen too. What about your black and brown gaffers, what
about your your disabled ads and directors and cinematographer and yes,
(22:23):
trans people, because people don't understand how important those experiences
play a part in the behind the scenes, even having
marginalized intimacy coordinators now that we have those jobs now,
especially because like if you're having sex scenes with black
people and you got a white person coaching them through it, girl, what.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Let's gonna be the clip that of an ask Christy
you'se girl?
Speaker 5 (22:50):
What?
Speaker 4 (22:50):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Yes, I feel you.
Speaker 5 (22:52):
So you representation matters, but also being proactive and doing
the work. And I said, also, you have to have
DEI training in these spaces too.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
You got to have people to come in to.
Speaker 5 (23:04):
Give give the rundown on how people need to be treated,
how people need to be regarded, how people need to
be held. Spaces, workspaces are intentionally not safe. What we
have to intentionally make them safer, and the ways in
which we do that is just putting the effort in
to do that. Even just the effort being the starting
place is something that I try to emphasize.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
To my students.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
So we have to the only way we can envision
a better world is that people have to see it
for themselves. People have to see themselves. People damn sure
got to see others.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
And I think that that's the you you speak to
something quickly that i've I think that actually kind of
was what sparked this conversation or me wanting to when
I when I again, So when I was going through
your bio and I saw that you talk about pleasure activism,
I took it for a moment because I've been thinking
about the interactions I see on social media of people
who like to shame other people for oh, well, you
(23:57):
were once poor and now you're doing okay and now
you've changed, or shaming people for like going out to
dinner and posting pictures about their photos with dinner and
things of that nature, right, And so even thinking about
for myself, right, Like so the first time that I
went up, and I'm gonna say it right now because
by the time y'all hear this, I had already done
in it.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Whatever.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
But like a friend of mine, right, we're going to
dinner tomorrow and we're going to Flemings, Right, this notion
of like why would you go to Flemings? You know
you should be you're a freelancer, or you're black and
you're queer and you're for the people and you're doing
all this work, but you're going to this expensive ass
place to eat dinner. But it's little stuff like that
that I catch in these conversations, right, And I think
for me it always comes back when you talk about
(24:38):
building a better world. You know, I've always said, both
on social and not I never hear specifically white or
white fat queer people get the basically get the shit
that we get for just being happy, Like I don't
see it and I don't ever hear about it. And
so I think for me that that's something that I've
(24:59):
become or cognitive of because I want to admit I
have moved a tax bracket. I do recognize that with
this show, it has moved me, and I want to
respect that. I understand that not everybody is going to
be able to say that, but I know for myself,
with being a teacher and doing this podcast, I am
(25:20):
in a different tax bracket and I respect that. I
respect the privilege in that. However, I have also been
through hell to move that tax bracket. And that's the
thing that people remiss when we don't talk enough about,
right the hell on these last fifteen to twenty years
that I've had to go through to get my name
in the rooms, to get the shows, to get the checks,
(25:41):
to get the entertainment lawyer, to get the agents right,
no one wants to talk about any of that. And
so I guess for me, this conversation or this word
pleasure is so much bigger for me because it's we
live in a world where our full authenticity can never
be what's what I'm looking for. I don't want to
(26:03):
say syncs, but they can't live together. And in the
world that people build for black fel first, right, pleasure
and authentic and authenticity can't live together, and so I
guess what I wanted to ask you is what advice
you know? I know you have a thought, but I
did want to ask what advice do you have for
listeners who might be holding back or thinking that they
need to change who they are. That's why I asked
(26:23):
the question at the top, thinking that they have to
change who they are to be able to find joy.
Speaker 5 (26:28):
So the first thing I want to say is, in
the words of Yonker's native capricorn icon Mary J.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
Blige, yeah there will be there will be And this.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Is the chapter.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
This is in the chapter of Deuteronomy. I don't know
if y'all saw us in the Bible.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
There will be no hater ration or ration in answer
answer just want to say.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
In response, I want to say is I'm.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
The more serious know who wed.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
A lot of it is.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
There's a lot of noise. There's a lot of hippie
gapping that we just gotta tune out. It's easier said
than done. But one thing I've also may I tell
people is that you gotta make a choice every day.
It's either I'm gonna sit up here and pull up
with the bullshit, or I'm gonna feel what I feel
and I'm gonna keep it the fuck going, Chyenne at
(27:28):
this stage in their life, at the cusp of almost
twenty nine, almost thirty next year, I'm gonna listen, I'm
gonna hear what people gotta say, or I'm gonna just
move through whatever people gotta say and just keep it
the fuck on. Because the only way I can truly
embrace myself is to feel that I have to affirm
myself and recognize that whatever people are saying nine times
(27:50):
out of ten don't even got shit to do with me,
Just like you and your friend trying to go have
a nice ass time because you work so fucking hard
to get where you are. You deserve that, regardless of
who made the restaurant. Because I need people to understand
this too, I tell my students this, I'm gonna.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
Tell you all this. Multiple things can be true at once.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
Yes, we hate that, as a boo zero out of
ten would recommend, we still got to survive in it,
and we're all and it is okay to treat ourselves
when the world is literally going to ship you worried
about me going to get a steak, going to get
a steak, and girl be quiet, Girl be quiet. This
(28:31):
is not your conversation, like and honestly, what would be
better is if people would learn what conversations are for
them and which ones are not for them.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
If you don't have nothing positive to contribute, shut the
hell up.
Speaker 5 (28:44):
Go eat, Go eat your Quaker oats, Go drink you,
go drink you some crystal light, Sit down.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Get a tind me. Yeah, you can even get a
table to listen.
Speaker 5 (28:55):
And my thing is, we would all work better if
people would just be quiet and actually listen for once.
And a lot of people want to talk because they
are so afraid of their own potential that they would
much rather try to dim your light than to turn
theirs on.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Half of these niggas don't even know there's a light
switch there.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Yeah, I'm sitting here like, how's this my show? And
I feel like you appreciate the me.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
I'm like, I'm looking good, this is being a JUMO
show And I feel like you came to school us,
but go out like.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
I just I just feel that people focus so much on,
especially if we're going to talk about fat black feminhood, right,
people focus so much on how and I tell my
students is too how fatness is viewed as an amalgamation
of poor choices that you chose to be fat, that
you chose to put yourself in such a position where
you don't deserve anything, even life. I remember when I
(29:50):
did that other podcast about traveling as a fat person,
people literally told me that if I have money to
pay for a ticket, I have money to pay to
lose weight and get a weight loss service. People were
literally telling me to go kill myself because I was
talking about that. That was the most and so much
so that I was writing an article for Washington Post
that I gave up on because I didn't want to
be disparaged and so about.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
The same topic.
Speaker 5 (30:14):
So I say that to say this, there's people really
view fat people as the scum of the earth because
it's like we chose to be that way.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
And so when you choose to.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
Exist in this body to go out and do things
that a lot of fat people are not viewed to do.
Cause let's make it clear, even when we look for
a media standpoint, not just traditional media, but also social media,
when do you see a lot of fat black people
going out doing fancy things even if they have the
money to do it, ever, and even if people are
posting it it's not being promoted. You know how social
media works. Yeah, the algorithm is not going to promote
(30:47):
that TikTok. I don't really I don't really see fat
black people on TikTok like that. Truthfully, they show me
a lot of white people.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
I don't even watch a lot of white content. Why
am I seeing Sarah.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
You No, You're literally said, you're speaking to me Because
I think about this a lot. Ask somebody you know
who who is trying to get to the masses that
it is okay to be yourself. I have made a
comment I said in the last few months I've been
watching the and I actually have put this in the
doc Joho. So this is offline but online, but I
(31:23):
put this in the doc that I did want to
have a conversation about specifically people in the anti fatness
conversation of all. I lost weight for this because of
my health and all of these different things. But knowing
in the back of my mind that a lot of
people recognize the joy and how much easier life is
when you're thinner, and I think that that's what you're
(31:43):
really speaking to, right, And so this notion of not
being able to find pleasure or joy in life when
you're fat, and that my life will open up when
I lose weight, right or when I look a certain way,
that that's digestible for media. That's what you're speaking to,
because people want to turn fatness into this, this this,
(32:05):
this story of triumph, this losing weight is to be like, Oh,
this person overcome the biggest literally and figuratively, the biggest
hoople in their life, and now they could never be happier,
I've heard. But the thing about it is that are
you really happier? You really fighting your demons every day?
Because let me tell you, let me let me tell
you a funny story. So when I was in grad school,
(32:26):
I used to go to the New school. I went
further to the new school for my master's and while
I was in me too. While I was in grad school,
I used to do substitute teaching. And I was at
an all fem school and they were doing one of
the guidance counselors came to speak to the to the
students about like body image. And one of the things
(32:47):
she said to me that has really been fundamental to
my work is she didn't say to me, but I
just overheard her. She says to the students, do you
know that most people are thin not because of genetics,
but because of choice and that and I had to
sit and be like that really illuminated something to me
because at that point I was really struggling with my weight.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
I was really trying to lose it.
Speaker 5 (33:08):
I wanted to be I was buying into this capitalistic
idea that I'd be a better person if I were smaller.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
Yeah, would love me more, my work would be better.
People would gravitate to me more.
Speaker 5 (33:18):
And at the end of the day, when you think
about that statement, that and this is a whole white
thin woman that said this.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
Too, which I really appreciate. I appreciate when when white
people do when white people do the work like that. Okay, yeah, but.
Speaker 5 (33:39):
Like I especially with fat folks that have lost weight,
who shun fat folks for still being fat. I'm like, damn,
my nigga, you're really fighting yourself at every angle right
now because because not that there, I don't want to
take away Listen, people may be whatever, and I don't
want to take away that from them. But a lot
of people have you and attested to the fact that
(34:01):
they're actually unpappy because there is so much pressure to maintain,
to catch on, and to also live in this idea
that you are now accepting that people are approaching you,
and it be people from before that knew you when
you were a fact approaching you in a different way,
and it's disingenuous. You're only approaching me because I'm smaller now.
You're not approaching me because of my humanity. And that's
(34:25):
why I be telling people like, yes, like I don't
care what you do with your body. That is not
for me to discuss. At the same time, what you're
not gonna do is come up in here and tell
me how I'm wrong and how I'm irresponsible. Because I
chose to live me and do me and be me.
You're not gonna make me feel bad for that.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
I think I thought a lot with like, particularly in
regards to dating relationships, because I was talking to a
friend to friends recently about it's like dating and like,
how the getting is this fat person's very challenging because
of how many folks see fat bodies and how many
folks like I mean, I mean, like they're like the
amount of time is particularly like like I'm as a
(35:03):
queer male, the way I am that this I'll just
maybe it's fucked up up of me, of me to
say this, but there are there are some people out
there that are just like they're just not cute.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
They're just not cute. But there's but they're skinny and
they're thin, and so they all like they get all
the dick in the world. And I'm like, and I like,
it's really I really I hate to say it, but
I'm like, but I'm like, bitch, Like how how how
they're desirable that.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
The desira because of because of their of their thinness
and which I find so interesting. And then like you know,
someone had asked what, like would I ever consider like
what I consider like like weight loss is a weight
to be to be more desirable, And I'm like do
you you? And I respond, like you have to understand
that for me to do that, like like one, I
have to betray myself, but also but then like I
(35:55):
would not be able to trust a single person that
then approaches me because all I'll think about is, oh,
like like I could be the smartest pitch in the game,
I could be successful, I could be beautiful and everything
and brilliant and funny and other things, but it means
nothing because I'm fat, I'm not and like because then
(36:15):
now it means something to you. No, like that that
is not for me, Like I don't want I don't
want to be with somebody who like who like sees
all this and then it's like, oh, like now you're thin,
so so it's like like so, so I'm with it,
and thenversely like I also like then their response is like,
you know, watch date somebody who like like what what?
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Like why why don't you date a chaser? And I'm
like I don't I also want but why But.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
I'm like why First of all, I don't want to
be chasing just out you want to be chased, like
walking in hand with somebody they got chased, But like,
I don't understand how because like because I see it's like, well,
I don't want them to to all like my my
body when my fatness is not about my faintness just
exists as itself. I don't want to be like or
(37:00):
dislike because of it. I just want to exist like
in on my fact, on my fact glory because of
who I am. And so I find that very interesting.
And then John, I was gonna say earlier, can you
guys have some joy and we'll see. I was gonna
say to your parlier, I think a lot about is
like when this person, the person I came for you
for being out fleming is I get this? All I
can hear is this is this like white voice that's like,
(37:23):
how dare you survive.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Everything that we have put you through?
Speaker 6 (37:26):
Around?
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Dare you survive joyfully?
Speaker 6 (37:29):
Like?
Speaker 2 (37:29):
How dare we be happy about surviving? That's all I
can think about, is like, which that's that's literally where
my mind was. But thank you for same?
Speaker 3 (37:37):
I mean, I mean like like that voice is like
that subtext is so loud, like how like how dare you?
How did you not fall under under all the traps
that set for you? How dare you not fall down
for all the ways that pushed you and through all that?
Like like how do you smile at me for it?
Speaker 2 (37:55):
And flex on me?
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Like yeah, like that's that's just and and it makes
it I like it's it's it's just such a sad
things I think to you, right like John Evens said
you could like you could just eat with me, like
you could just eat with me? Said you would just
rather sit if you continue to tear me down and chay,
I see you see you got jump jump in.
Speaker 5 (38:19):
First of all, what I'm hearing when that person said
why don't you dat a chaser? Is I don't care
what the fuck happens to you. I don't care what
level of harm people think that that that fetishizing Because
again again this is me getting into my teacher bag.
One of I say, one of the one of the
extensions of desirability politics is commodifying identities is fetishism as
(38:42):
especially if you read Eating the Other by Bell Hooks,
a very great text, I highly recommend it to people.
This is a text that talks about how black bodies
in particular are commodified and fetishized by white people because
white people think that it's much cooler to treat them
that way than to actually own the actual ways in
which whiteness is harming black people, in the way in
which they are really you know, damaging black people and
(39:05):
their experiences. So for them to tell you why don't
you date a chasers? Them saying why don't you take
uh date someone that doesn't give two ships about you.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
You as a person, and they much rather see you for.
Speaker 5 (39:17):
Your fatness to consume and not for you Jordan as
the entire human being, and there's so many and you're
also a black person, a queer person on top of that.
So just the idea that they really think that this
is okay to even offer this as an idea or
mice they want.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
It's for both of y'all.
Speaker 5 (39:37):
What the crux of this conversation is, the white voice
I'm hearing is these niggas need to settle.
Speaker 4 (39:44):
But.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
We are and like and like. It needs to be
an us and not on the system that to be given.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
If I can, though, I want to say this, Chyenne,
and I wanted to say this to you in person.
I could have said it on social but I'm going
to say to you in person.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
I love you.
Speaker 4 (40:14):
Know.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
One thing that really opened up for me by following
you and by connecting with your work is this notion
of you need to like you. You had tweeted something
about crumbs a couple of months ago and I never
saw but before you tweeted that, I had never thought
about it from that context, right of like because I
(40:35):
am a you know you basically you were saying, because
I am who I am, because I'm doing all of
these things, I deserve more than the crumbs that life
gives me, and it literally sparked this thing in my
head and I said, Yanne is so right, like black
fat fems are forever given the crumbs and being told
you deserve it and that you should be okay with it.
Speaker 4 (40:55):
Right right, And this is my thing.
Speaker 5 (40:57):
If you always say and my fat ass is eaten,
why you not giving me the whole plate?
Speaker 4 (41:01):
Then you're afraid I You're afraid that I'm gonna eat it.
And I'm telling when you give me my.
Speaker 5 (41:10):
Philip Child surf and turf mill, better believe believe, I'm
gonna get my forking knife and I'm gonna dig into
that bitch, okay, because let me tell you something we
don't deserve, that we don't deserve to be left behind
and oh, we're gonna give you the scraps because you
know you don't deserve anything else and that and that
really hints from me because it's just this idea even me,
(41:31):
like you know, getting back into dating and stuff now.
And you know, I've been kind of quiet about it.
I talk about a little bit on social media. I've
been kind of quiet because my new phase is that
I just want people have less access to me in
my life. And I've really kind of like pushed away
from that because before I said, you know, there were
I didn't really have a lot of like representations of
(41:51):
fat black dating.
Speaker 4 (41:52):
Some of the only people I knew were like Ashley
Chubby Bunny, and a bunch of.
Speaker 5 (41:57):
Creators that really talks about sex from a fat black, yes,
a fat correct from a fat black experience. So I'm like,
you know, why don't I throw my hat in the
ring and I want to give people that experience. But
then people started getting a little too messy, and I'm like,
I don't want niggas speaking shit over me. I want
my ship to go smooth, you know, because I'm a
very spiritual person, so you know, words a powerful my
(42:21):
previous date and experiences. I was telling my my therapist
about how even that has evolved because as a fat back,
a fat black person, even a lot of people don't
even think that you deserve to be seen publicly. There
have been so many times where people, not just men,
but people in general have just been like, you know,
why don't we just just I just come over to
your house, or where do you live at or do
(42:42):
you live alone, or just trying to coerce me into
bed and not really care about my pleasure or consent
or my my my my needs, like, and I'm gonn
share this. I can't tell too much about my business.
I'm gonna tell a little bit, but not too much.
I'm just seeing someone and it's been really nice. He's
also a queer person who has been great and like,
(43:02):
we went on a date a couple of weeks ago
to the movies and we was feeding each.
Speaker 4 (43:06):
Other popcorn and kissing and holding hands and shit.
Speaker 5 (43:09):
And I told my therapist, like, I don't I'm kind
of nervous to tell you because it's kind of juvenile.
And she says to me, no, I like to hear that,
because that's that's healing, to hear that you are experiencing
these things. And I told her one of the reasons
why I was afraid to tell us because I didn't
know to trust it, because I'm not used to people
wanting to indulge in me in that give me the
(43:30):
space to be soft and to be flirty and to
be playful and to like people think a lot of
people have these misconceptions about me. And I don't want
to get on my soapbox, but I kind of have
to really quick go. People have these misconceptions about me
as a person where people think I'm standoffish or you know,
I can be very like cold or very like whatever.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
And I mean, I can understand why.
Speaker 5 (43:53):
But also some of that is attributing certain things, the
fact black people whole another conversation, But like, how you
if you're so busy critiquing me, God A windy, can
you realize that a lot of that is because y'all
don't see fat black people as multiplicity as and y'all
don't think that we can exist in these ways that
people are not allowing us to. So even the fact
that I was able to exist as my truest self,
(44:14):
my fun, playful, giggly, silly self, flury sensual self, was
freeing and liberating for me. So I really just think
in the context of this conversation, And Jordan, just to
your point. First of all, I just want to say,
you deserve everything. Everybody on this podcast deserves everything. That's
number one. Number two, Fuck that person that told you
(44:35):
to run after a chaser. May the skin forever be dry.
May they never see.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Person I don't know who you are.
Speaker 4 (44:51):
Well, Jurgons will never help you again.
Speaker 5 (44:55):
And and and Also, I just wanted to say that
I really think again, Yes, we can do the grassroots work.
Speaker 4 (45:03):
We can do a lot of work. We can have
these conversations.
Speaker 5 (45:05):
These are all helpful and pactful, absolutely, but things won't
change until the systems actually change. And you know, before
a big part of my work before this point, I
used to write about date and apps and how fat
friendly they were and lack thereof. That was a big
part of my work for a while, and one of
the biggest things was trying to really hold these date
and apps accountable, especially when you're talking about tender. We
(45:27):
talked about bumble, we talk about okay Cupid, and even
in the desirability politics conversation, because I've explained to my
students how dating apps are also a form of media
that we need to understand and really dismantle. I bring
up okay Cupid in twenty eighteen did a revamp or
a rebrand where they were trying to be more inclusive.
(45:48):
They were trying to be more like, we're not just
a hookup app. We want niggas to come up in
here and actually fall in love. But these all the
advertisements were all of thin, able bodied, white past and
you know the white girls were with the black men.
You know it wasn't It didn't feature no fat black
and fat people. It didn't feature no black fems, It
(46:08):
didn't feature nobody that that really could benefit from a rebrand.
You featuring people that could have got a date even
off of the app, like, you're not featuring people literally,
I hate you, but we also deserve to just exist
and breathe and just beating people falling over us too
(46:29):
without this, Oh I gotta hide you because you look
a certain way, or I'm afraid my mama gonna judge me.
Speaker 4 (46:34):
I don't give a fuck about your mama. Me and
your mama probably wear the same clothes. We could share clothes.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Let's be yes, you speak to the point I keep
I never it never falls on me. You know how
everybody a couple of months ago that whole Tank and
the Bangers yea, And yet how people seem to remiss
the idea that the main singer is a woman. I
(47:00):
want to assume, a woman of size, and this notion
of how she goes on to quote in that song
that they're only telling her that she's pretty at night
because they don't want to be seen with her there.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
They're not listening to the whole.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Thing, right, So people love the oh he's in my
DM saying I'm pretty, but no one's really talking about
the message. And I think you speak to something. You know,
we talked about this. I don't know what episode it was,
but I had talked about this, you know, when I
was in college. One of the things that I always
you know, and Joho, my heart. I always say my
heart goes out, not in the sense of it being like, oh,
my heart goes out to you and I'm trying to
feel sorry for you, but no, I know what it's
(47:37):
like to be young and to be queer and to
be black, and to be in a space where you
feel like you're not desired and people are trying to
give you every single Well have you tried this?
Speaker 2 (47:48):
And have you tried this? And like, have you? But
have you walked in my shoes? Do you understand what
the fuck I'm going through? Right? And so it's just it,
you know it.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
Whenever we talk about relationships and love and things, my
heart is always so close to you, Joho, because I
you know, I know, I have a couple of years
on you, and you look to me as mother and stuff.
But in this conversation, I think all three of us
are what we say. What we're all saying is this
shit is fucked up for all of us, and.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Love is not.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Even even though I've been in a relationship for a
long time, if my partner was to leave me tomorrow,
I would be terrified because I'm thinking to myself, I
would have to be back out into this world where
black fat people, black queer fat people are treated like shit.
You know, I already know what I'm walking back out to,
and so I think about that a lot. So I
(48:39):
think the word I want to say here is that,
you know, I don't really know what the right word is.
But what I will say is that I genuinely empathize.
That's what I'm wanting to say. I empathize because even
with the love that I have, I still understand how
fucked up joy is for us right, how much we
(49:00):
have to go through. If it's not relationships, it's work.
If it's not work, it's media. If it's not media,
it's family. If it's not family, it's friends. Like everywhere
we go, we're having to like basically choose our battles,
and it fucking sucks, you know, And so I just
wanted to say I truly hear you, you know. And
(49:21):
I don't think I've said that on the air, or
I don't think we've talked about that so directly. But
for anybody who's listening and who's going through it, and
who might be snapping their fingers right now, you know, love, Yes,
it is hard, and it is hard to find, especially
loving yourself in a world that's telling you every day
that you're not lovable. But what I will say is
that I also think that there's something to be said
(49:42):
about us finding our own joy.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
And we're gonna talk a little bit more about that
in the next segment.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
So when we come back, I will say this, We've
talked a lot about fun, We've talked a lot about
joy this past section, but we won't have none of
that if we don't pay none of these bills. So
when we get back, when we get back, we go
get into it a little bit more in another segment
for Go Love Yourself this week more in a second.
(50:10):
All right, everybody, So we are back with Go Love Yourself,
and this week, something I have been thinking a lot about,
especially having Cheyenne on the show, is really thinking about
how we rarely get to talk about the things that
bring us pleasure and open form. And what I mean
by that is I wanted to ask you all, how
do you receive pleasure? And what I mean by that
(50:31):
it doesn't necessarily everybody when we hear the work pleasure,
everybody start touching on these sales and the sixtions. That's
not what for me is always you know, pleasure don't
always get to be about the sixty.
Speaker 2 (50:41):
Time, and it can't be.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
It can be, but I will say for me, it's
not always about the sexy time. And what I'm talking
about is in this world that often tells you that
you should be grateful, Like we've mentioned in our last section,
you should be grateful for the little that you get.
I always think about the things that make me happy
or happiest. And one of the things that I fought
a lot about is how intentional people are, how people
(51:04):
intentionally listen to the things that I say or find
little things about me. So like one of the things
that means a lot to me, right, So I was
gonna I'll show you all on screen, you'll see. But anyway,
all that to be said, like when someone says, I
saw this and it made me think of you. And
I have friends and family who do that shit all
the time, and so like somebody sent me this, like
(51:26):
little this little you know, man, baby Gromu thing right,
And I have Grogu in my corner and right, and
I am by no means of Star Wars doll by
any means, but people know how much I love Grogu,
and I have friends who will find things or see
things and be like, oh, this reminded me of you,
and it just it makes me that that's joy and
(51:48):
pleasure for me because it means, oh, wow, you actually
pay attention to what I say or the things that
I like in love and that you know me well
enough to know that. So I wanted to ask you
all kind of the same question, like what what what
gets you to happy?
Speaker 2 (52:01):
Right? Or what has gotten you to happy? And what
makes you happier? And so we'll start with you, shann
and then we'll bump over to Joho.
Speaker 5 (52:07):
Okay, I'm a little I'm synthing a little bit because
I'm thinking about.
Speaker 4 (52:13):
Thinking about the person. But I love I love forehead
cook kisses.
Speaker 5 (52:19):
I love people send me music, especially if like I
send them music, and they kind of analyze the type
of music I listened to, and then they send me
stuff that's very similar to what I've sent.
Speaker 4 (52:28):
Like, it's the paying attention part and connecting.
Speaker 5 (52:31):
The dots without me giving you that, without me forcing
you to connect the dots.
Speaker 4 (52:35):
That's what I like. That makes my throb okay, I like.
I like when people give me really good anime recommendations. Also, Jordan,
I have something for you. So just yeah we got
(52:58):
yeah you mean you mean yes, yeah, we got a sidebar.
Speaker 2 (53:02):
I love that that we've made that connection.
Speaker 4 (53:05):
But go on. I love when people randomly buy me gifts.
Speaker 5 (53:10):
So when I had surgery for a fybroid removal last month,
and my friend came and stayed the week with me,
and she knows that I'm obsessed excuse me. They know
that I'm obsessed with Hello Kitty. So when they went
out to the store, they bought me a Hello Kitty makeup.
Speaker 4 (53:25):
Bag and that just made like, that just made my
whole day. So I love like little gifts.
Speaker 5 (53:31):
I love when people recognize the things that I enjoy
and they bring them up in conversation or they like,
you said something reminded me of you, So I'm gonna.
Speaker 4 (53:39):
Share that with you.
Speaker 5 (53:40):
It's really the intention and the thought and the consideration
that really brings joy.
Speaker 4 (53:45):
And I don't really be asking for much. Like listen,
if you're gonna give me a birkin bag, I ain't gonna.
Speaker 2 (53:50):
Look say no, you're gonna give me you want to
send it, I ain't gonna say. I'm not gonna say no.
Speaker 5 (53:57):
I'm not gonna say I'm not gonna I'll never say
to a cash baby good.
Speaker 4 (54:03):
I will say.
Speaker 5 (54:04):
I will say that I really enjoy the simplest, most thoughtful,
most intentional acts of kindness, because again, we don't.
Speaker 4 (54:14):
Get that often.
Speaker 2 (54:16):
Nope, Nope, I live, Thank you, thank you for that. Joho,
what about you? Baby? You are like I live, I
just live. I live, and I love.
Speaker 3 (54:27):
I love this topic because I just feel so wholesome
and so good. And I would I was gonna say, honestly,
it's like, it's to me, it's to me, it's it's
really giving love language which I love so so much,
or leaving the leaves. I can answer it through through
this framework. So I would say, first like words of
affirmation are fully what bring me pleasure.
Speaker 2 (54:46):
It makes me feel the most seen and I'm affirmed.
Speaker 3 (54:49):
And I think I think I also love it because
it doesn't come from a place of not receiving it,
you know, like some people need it because they haven't
received it. But like I, like I grew up being
loved by my parents, which I think was I know,
like I thought was normal as the kid, I realized
it's actually such a privilege. And so I think it's
because I've received so much that's informed how I received
pleasure in this way, Like nothing feels very few things
(55:10):
fulfill more wholesome than someone says that they see me
and she shares with me through the words how they
see me. I also receive pleasure through cality time, whether
it's with self or others, Like there is truly nothing
more rewarding for me than picking up a bomb assmal,
whether it's a little olive our moment or some bomb
ash fish talco a long I mean a long ass
(55:33):
fucking week and going to the park just to relax
at sunset and breathing them trees, Like there is.
Speaker 2 (55:39):
Nothing better than that. I literally the amount of times
am I in mind.
Speaker 3 (55:48):
The way in my last apartment, I lived a block
from this park and me, me and my neighbor every
Shabbot Friday night, we would like we would we pick
up dinner and we walk to the park, the little
two block walk.
Speaker 2 (56:01):
And just sit and talk and like there was something,
there was some thing there was like a very few
things that was more special than that. I think.
Speaker 3 (56:06):
Also, it's like within that it's sharing food with somebody,
Like sharing a meal with somebody, whether I cook for
them or I mean if they if they cook for me,
which I'm like, if you don't come for me, girl
makes you cook right because I cooked down, So I
need to know that you can throw down that kitchen
with me, Okay, But like if we can share me
together like that, that that to me is like the
the epitime of pleasure is pitting me a joy, Like
(56:27):
I get nothing but joy from that.
Speaker 2 (56:29):
So I love, love, love love that question so much. Sean,
thank you.
Speaker 5 (56:35):
Now I've got a couple more. I'm sorry, Yes, our
show things that also bring me joy, A good dispensary
run after.
Speaker 4 (56:47):
Payday, okay, Okay. Also I love cooking for people too.
I thought about that and just I'm sorry, but my
praise can't cabin ask can't.
Speaker 5 (56:57):
Just I just got to say it. I love when
people me like that. I firm others often, but I
really enjoy people affirming me and like you. Like I
also have parents that are very like big on making
sure that I felt loved and seen and things like that.
Speaker 4 (57:09):
But like, I definitely really love that. To Jordan's so.
Speaker 2 (57:13):
Right here, baby, ms okay, I live for it. I
live for it. We bringing people together since nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 1 (57:24):
Come on me, yes, come on me, I live. I
love this, I genuinely do. And you know what I
will say real quick. I was gonna also say, food
is my also one of my love languages. So for
those of y'all who got DIBs with like Krispy Kreeb
and all the other donut places, Randy's all the all
of the donuts over and.
Speaker 2 (57:45):
Randy's here, and send you go right by my office.
I know, baby, oh, I know there's a job we
were going.
Speaker 1 (57:50):
I keep tabs. I know Randy's is number two on
my list of my favorite donuts. I will say this,
and if you want to send me a donut cut,
you can always do that. Food is what way to
speak to me.
Speaker 2 (58:00):
Baby.
Speaker 1 (58:01):
Let's just go on and speak to me through food.
But with that being said, Oh God, Lord, why am
I taking all of the breaks?
Speaker 2 (58:08):
Joe? Do you want to take this break? I mean,
you wrote the script, yess all, not taking Lord whatever I'm.
Speaker 4 (58:16):
Looking to give us.
Speaker 2 (58:17):
What the fuck am I doing taking all these basnyway?
Speaker 1 (58:19):
You know what brings me Joe, knowing that these commercials
are giving us revenue. So with that being said, we
are going to take what FO break and when we
get back, we will get into y'all favorite segment, Yes
ma'am and no man Pam more than a me.
Speaker 2 (58:41):
Fam. We are back with y'all start segment. It is
a yes ma'am and no man Pam for this week's
yes ma'am Pam. Sorry I'm laughing because y'all, I done
left the blank. I was just I'm a listener, y'all.
I'm gonna I know what I live.
Speaker 3 (59:00):
A blank I left to open because I knew conversation
which I would good it.
Speaker 2 (59:06):
So my yest man Bam is too is too Chyenne M.
Speaker 3 (59:10):
Davis today because hot damn the way, y'all, let me
tell you the way, I had no idea what to
expect and just popped on and this love is wearing.
Like I said this amazing Akatski attire with a cowboy
be pop tattoo, the way my anime heart was filled up,
and the way that they have just schooled us this episode.
(59:32):
Like like like John, I have been recording quite a
bit these past yaw, we are doing that to back
to back to back to back to back. And the
way energy is still in the way that literal energy
up like my yes, literally is fucking to you like you.
Speaker 2 (59:49):
I truly cannot wait for us to be BFFs after
this moment. I am just so it's you and so
I just I live for this. So you you were
my guest and Pam My no man, Pam. Today I
would say, oh my no man, Pam at President, you know,
I would just say.
Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
It's just it's just it's it's just to every state
doing stupid things. It's just to every state politician and
government doing stupid things. I just I don't understand. Like
y'all are so worry y'all are so worried about trans
folks and bathrooms, y'all so worried about crito race theory.
Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
Y'all also are all these things. Bitch, can you fix
the planet?
Speaker 5 (01:00:30):
Like can you?
Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
Can you please stop us from burning up. Could you
please go say the glacier or something?
Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
I said, y'all, y'all so worried about banning us, but
got the nerve to say that you can't ban no one.
Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
Which I and I just want to say you you
want to be in us, for they're the ones who
got in this mess to begin with.
Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
Can you be in yourselves instead like y'all sucking this up?
Speaker 3 (01:00:51):
Like you need to look in the mirror baby and
go band yourself and take yourself to jail because I
cannot do it anymore.
Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
So my no man, Pamas saw all that, Cheyenne, how
about you are your yes?
Speaker 4 (01:01:03):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (01:01:04):
Before I get into that, thank you for all the
wonderful compliments. I also wanted to give a shout out
to Keema Is who made this dress and is a
black It's k I M O t O k I.
I'll send you all the ad name Black Woman owned
(01:01:26):
by Riha Parker. Ria Parker will also give her name to.
She makes anime lingerie like I just bought an not
set that's coming. She has like a jujitsu kaisen.
Speaker 4 (01:01:39):
Lingerie set coming in like she has a bunch of stuff,
So I definitely yeah, so this is a dress made
by them. Love it my yes, ma'am, Pam. I can't
talk much about it because of n d as.
Speaker 5 (01:01:50):
But my work, my job is testing out a four
day work week, so my full time job that I
work at, I'm very excited for that, you know, love
to have a fifth day so I can do my
screenwriting and stuff like that. My my no man, Pam,
is that, uh, I'm still not making enough money.
Speaker 4 (01:02:10):
I'm broke. And I'm not saying it's about my job.
Speaker 5 (01:02:12):
It's not about my job, just life in general with them,
with them, with the stuff, you know, with with the
with the price is going up, and like rent being
what it is, you know, you know, a nigga trying
to make it. Okay, I'm doing my African American best
words of my friend Jermay. They coin, they coined this,
(01:02:33):
so I'm gonna give them full credit for using this.
But yeah, I'm doing my African American best.
Speaker 4 (01:02:38):
So yeah, my no man.
Speaker 5 (01:02:39):
But in all seriously, my no man, Pam is definitely
just this inflation and this mooming recession. Even though niggas
saying we not have one baby, it's something that's being recessed.
Whether it's a hair, whether it's a hair of mine,
whether it's the economy.
Speaker 4 (01:02:57):
Something is in recession, I will.
Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
Recessed, That's what.
Speaker 4 (01:03:05):
And I wish these hating ass niggas would recess on
the way away from me.
Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
To get out of here.
Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
Thank you, point point and oh my god, you said
I'm doing my African American best. I'm just put that
on my headline. I literally my headline African American mess.
Oh my gosh. But anyway, I love that. Thank you,
Thank you for again. Yes, I understand it, and we're
gonna try to make sure we put some coins in
(01:03:32):
your pocket with that being said, my yes, ma'am. For
this week, there's a story coming out of NYC about
and I didn't know anything about this story, so it
was kind of new to me. But I guess there
were some queer men who had been poisoned basically last year,
and there were a couple of men who have been
(01:03:53):
connected to the poisonings. I guess there was one gentleman
who had come home in a taxi cab and when
they got home, they basically we passed away because of
something that was put in their drink.
Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
And so there had been all this hubb Love about it. Again,
hubb Love, I didn't hear anything.
Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
About the and again I only glanced at the story,
so I might be kind of wrong, But I do know.
What I will say that I know for a fact
that is true is that some of I would say
maybe three or four of the people who are connected
to this, they've all been arrested. The people who have
been connected to these cases have been arrested. And I
(01:04:27):
will say this, I have a very hard time celebrating
people being arrested. But like you said earlier in the show,
two things can be true at the same time. Is
it really fucked up what they did and that they're
getting their come up and from it? Yes, I'm happy
that they are being held accountable. However, I just I
know the system and I know how things are gonna go.
And they and it looked like the picture that I saw.
(01:04:49):
They looked like men of color. So that also makes
me really scared because I already know what the system
is going to do to them for this. So there
is this thing for me, I think for me, the
biggest thing. I will say this in terms of the yes, ma'am,
and I will, like I said, I will link this
story to the actual our, to our footnotes. But what
makes me happy is that I'm relieved that certain folks
who are connected to this story are getting the closure
(01:05:11):
that they that they've been wanting or what they've been
you know, kind of fighting the law for. And I'm
it makes me sad that it's taken almost a year
for them to get that closure, but I'm really happy
that we're at least there. My no man Pam this week,
so I y'all, and fuck, we're gonna end up on
RuPaul's drag Race again. And I've been saying that I
(01:05:32):
don't shyan't. So every time we do this damn show,
we always end up at the end of the show
talking about RuPaul's drag Race. And I'm really fucking sick
of it. And it's nothing against Rue Paul. It's nothing
against the drag queens. We have had some of the
girls on the show. I love them, Bam, you know
you are all by girl. But I just thought, every
(01:05:53):
fucking show we always end on RuPaul's drag Race, and
I'm so fucking over anywhere.
Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
I have to say this.
Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
So a friend of me, a friend of mine, a folk, yeah,
a friend of mine sent me a, I don't know
if it's a TikTok or a real whatever the fuck
it was of what is do any of y'all watch
Real Housewives of Beverly Hill, Lisa Lisa, not Lisa Vander,
Lisa Renna. Right, So a friend of mine sent me
(01:06:22):
he was either real or TikTok of Lisa Renna doing
that whole from this season, you know, walk the duck
and she was like dancing to it, and you know,
and I know.
Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
People they're probably like, oh, what's the harm in Lisa
Reena enjoying that? Mine?
Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
No, man, Pam is I'm just somewhat annoyed about all
these straight white women who think that because they have
some friends with the sprinkle of color, that they understand
the issues or the struggles or even our linguistics of
queer people. Right, especially knowing that Anitria is a person
of color. It just really bugs me something something, And
(01:06:56):
I can't really put my full hands on what it
is that bugs me about these like rich white women
who have like co opted the queer spaces. Something about
it really really bugs the fucker.
Speaker 4 (01:07:10):
I'll tell you what it's given.
Speaker 5 (01:07:11):
First of all, I just want to confirm Lisa runned
us the girl from the soap operas correct, the one
that the one that the green eminem.
Speaker 4 (01:07:20):
Costsplayed in the media. Yeah, yeah, Lisa would trying to
be Reba McIntyre with that haircut. But we're not from
getting too that anyway.
Speaker 5 (01:07:32):
But anyway, it's given like you know when the white
people do mission projects to Africa and it's like, look
at all these savage children just having fun, and I
want to join in.
Speaker 4 (01:07:41):
It's the same thing, but the queer version.
Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
Okay, okay, it's just it's just I.
Speaker 5 (01:07:45):
Feel I know, I'm removed because I have money and
I have privilege, but I want to be down because
it's so cool that I just want to take the
culture and not actually help the people.
Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
Wells that say it's like and it's also it's also
the white gays who give them the.
Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
A gaggle of white gaze and the way that they
always i'm gaggle, do not you you do.
Speaker 3 (01:08:10):
Not because, as we said earlier, whiteness trumps all, so
do not just because you have a gay friend who
is when they're white, they do they know no, no,
don't don't do it.
Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
Don't do it. Yeah, it's just it.
Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
Yeah, so yes to all of that plus yes, And
like I said, it's just I'm really just done with
people who only I guess I'll say this and I'm
gonna keep saying it until I'm blue in the face
because obviously no one in the world's listening. But I'm
just really tired of people who love us when it's convenient,
(01:08:46):
who love our culture when it's convenient. It's giving fine
favor in our culture when it's giving out here.
Speaker 3 (01:08:52):
But she will not answer a question of who famous
black person is. She won't She won't know a black
black trans You won't put no money.
Speaker 4 (01:09:01):
Towards, put no money towards, no efforts.
Speaker 2 (01:09:04):
Okay, right right, that that's what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
Like all of these big name people love our culture,
love drag, race, love the love, quote unquote. I love
my gay friends. But we're out here being targeted left
and right, front and center, up and down, back and
around and nothing like I'm I'm nothing. It's just it's
really Yeah, that's.
Speaker 5 (01:09:28):
Hundreds of bills being passed and being offered to literally
kill us. Y'all have all this money and access to
get out there and actually implement change, to actually push
forth change, and the most you could do is a
medio grass duck walk.
Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
Look, look that's where I'm at. That's where I'm at.
I'm just that that for me is my no man Pam.
Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
This week it's people, basically, in so many words, people
who are co opting queer spaces and are not doing
anything to help us prevail. Like that's really what I
have and that's all I have left to say. So
with that being said, this again has been another fantastic
my favorite episode. It's like every weekend like this is
(01:10:08):
my favorite episode because it really is. This has been
an absolutely shan Thank you so much for coming on
the show. I mean, you have no truly how much
it means when people come on the show and they
genuinely are on the show, want to be on the
show and want to talk about things. It just again,
you've kept my spirits up for the whole hour that
we've been recording, and me and Jojo have been on
(01:10:30):
his computer since what.
Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
Five thirty, so we have had a night.
Speaker 1 (01:10:36):
But all that to be said for folks, if you
want to send your thoughts, your feedback and emails, please
send those over to Blackfatfempod at gmail dot com. We
do check our emails. If Joho doesn't catch it, I
definitely will or one of our producers will. You can
also send us your thoughts via social media by interacting
with our posts on Instagram, Twitter, or by using our
handle Blackfatfempod Schyan. Where can the Dolls find you?
Speaker 5 (01:10:58):
You can find me everywhere at shimod, especially on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter,
and Twitch, especially twitch y'all because come on Twitch so
as c h E y m O d double e.
So that's where you can find me. And yeah, I'll
be around Queen yoh.
Speaker 2 (01:11:15):
Where can the Dolly.
Speaker 4 (01:11:18):
Of course family?
Speaker 3 (01:11:19):
You can find me at Joe Hoo Daniels across all
those socials or in the skies. N Yu asking folks
where Shayan's classes are, and yes, I know it's online,
but I will show up. I have YU begging for
a class number.
Speaker 2 (01:11:35):
Where can I find the class?
Speaker 1 (01:11:38):
Yes, online, looking for a class number, like I'm gonna
just enroll myself because I need all of this goodness
well as for me and for for for this girl
over here.
Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
I found shout out this, there is this.
Speaker 5 (01:11:50):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (01:11:51):
I think I may have said this in one of
the episodes, and I'm gonna just say it again because
it bears repeating. There's a new donut shop called Cakes
among Us by Me and Baby. When I tell you
that they make the best donuts, like the best donuts
that I have had in a very little they also
they make cakes, and they make cupcakes and they make
(01:12:12):
donuts like it literally is a literally my you know me,
you know, sugar is going to be my downfall everything.
I go get a piece of cake, I go get
a cupcake, and I go get a donut. It is
the best day of my life. So I just want
to say that is where you are going to find
me in my It just it just never misses. You
can also find me before. You can find me there
(01:12:33):
before I leave for Paris. I leave for Paris.
Speaker 2 (01:12:34):
Things. Uh what in a week?
Speaker 4 (01:12:36):
Excited?
Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
Yes, yes, yes, tellyans Lou Honey, you can.
Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
Find me at Doctor John Paul. Visit the website ww
dot doctor Jobpaul dot com. We want to think amazing
supervising producers Rebecca Ramos at Baby Wang and executives, super
producer and a has on everyone over at iHeartMedia. There
would be also no show without our editor Chris Rogers.
(01:13:08):
We want to thank them for just working with us
this week. You know, it's it's late, it's just late,
and I've been working since A thirty this morning.
Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
And this is what y'all gonna get. I love y'all,
I really do.
Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
We love you, and that is why we continue to
keep it pushing even when the show has to stop.
With that being said, this has been another show. Thank
you for listening, and remember that Pineapple goes on pizza.
Apple is the superior.
Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
Band behind it. Sugar does, in fact, grits. I'm gonna
keep saying I love us all for real.
Speaker 4 (01:13:48):
Bye bye, bye
Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
Bye
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