Forgive, But Don't Forget

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Black Fat Fem podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
and Doctor John Paul LLC. Hey everyone, welcome to another
episode of the award winning podcast Black Fat Fem, where
all the intersections of identity are celebrated. I am one
of your hosts, John also known as Doctor John Paul,
and my.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
God, we are back. We are back. We are back.
Like cook crack honey, do you know just who my
God is?

Speaker 1 (00:29):
He with a bang? It came in hot wind fire,
you know it? Just so, So before we jump into
the shall say this. The doll said that they wanted
the roar in twenties said, I don't think I want
that anymore.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
What does that mean?

Speaker 4 (00:48):
You know?

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Because I came back in the nineteen twenties the flower like.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
With their dresses and everybody was dancing and doing like
the little chuck and jive. But now I don't think
I want that any more. I just y'all could keep it.
I don't think that's what they meant. I need everything
and everybody to calm down. It is only we've only
been ten days into this year, and so much has happened.

(01:16):
But before we jump into all of that and play
catch up and all of that I want to ask you.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Joho says, how you doing? How you holding up?

Speaker 3 (01:27):
He fam it should is Jordan or Joho.

Speaker 4 (01:32):
And I wish I could say happy twenty twenty five,
but I know for most of us it's not.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
Which is a while, because you know, the past few years,
I usually.

Speaker 4 (01:40):
Started off with someone like iconic passing away, and so
I was like, for once, we don't have that. This
is amazing. And then the fires happened and I said, oh.

Speaker 3 (01:49):
Yeah, we're doing today.

Speaker 4 (01:50):
You know, many people have been bringing up with the
Tovia Butler is the parable of the Sewer as a
pseudo flashpoint coming to life, because the book begins in
twenty twenty four with the sopia violence the effects of
climate change. And I just gotta say she hasn't been wrong, and.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
It is points were made, points were made in the
nineteen eighties, and here.

Speaker 5 (02:09):
We're the nineteen twenty twenties. Twenty twenty five. Yeah, sorry, come,
he's are coming to fruition the worst way. So it is, girls,
I'm happy to I'm happy to be here with you.
I've missed you.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
I've missed same same it is, you know. So the
thing that a lot of folks do. Dude, A lot
of folks maybe do know, maybe don't know. Is that
me and Jojo weikiki a lot like between the week
before we actually jump on the mic, and then also
in terms of that, like we get together and we
plan our shows and stuff too. So it was three

(02:41):
weeks of us not really having to like connect with
each other about what we were going to do and
how we were going to do it or who was
going to be on and.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
Blah blah blah blah.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
So it is nice to be back in the ring
with you and and and just kind of be back
at it and you know, kind of bring in some
some good, some good energy to people's ears. I do
want to say before we actually jump into the show,
so I did make a note on our show flow
all jokes aside before we start today. I definitely wanted
to send my love to any listener or Rush saying

(03:09):
our our love because I know me and Joho we
share a lot of the same sentiments around this, right.
We know that there might be listeners or frequencers of
the show who may have been affected by the fires
or maybe have people in their families. Actually have quite
a few friends who have been posting on social media
that either their parents lost their home or their uncles
and aunts lost their homes. And so, you know, as

(03:32):
much as we joke about kind of everything that's happening
around us, you know you kind of got a lab
to keep from crying. It is something that we do
want to recognize that, you know, whether you had to
evacuate you know, you lost something, or maybe you were
fearful you were going to lose something.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
It's deep.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
And I will say this, I don't think people fully
have ever unless you've ever had to truly evacuate your home,
You'll never fully understand the fear that and how much
it sucks to be in that position. I know for myself,
so I won't I will say I've ever I've only
ever had I don't know.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
Have you ever had to evacuate? Yes?

Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, so I'm like probably when you were what was
it San Diego? The San Diego Fires?

Speaker 4 (04:16):
Yes, when we were in the ocean side. But it
was a fire it started, it started the military base. Yeah,
but we could literally see it from my mom's front yard.

Speaker 3 (04:24):
We can literally see the fire raging. And so like
a thirst, they were like, hey.

Speaker 4 (04:29):
Won't like we always do that we see some glow,
but I ain't.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
And then we saw it over like over the hill
and we said.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
That's a cute time to go.

Speaker 3 (04:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (04:40):
It was my mom, my dad, my aunt and I
just packed up packed up on out to uh to
buy the ocean.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
It was and I think to your point, right, like
I think for us right like.

Speaker 4 (04:51):
There, thankfully it was a fire that wasn't like it
wasn't like spreading rapidly the way the way the way
that this is right, so like so like I'm not
packing and seeing fire coming towards me, but like but
there's a but there's a very real threat of like
we're packing when we we're packing what we need now,
we're back when we need now, and like our home
may not be here.

Speaker 3 (05:10):
But like but like like that, I woke up.

Speaker 4 (05:13):
And like, my car is a my car at that
point at the car that I had the car, I think,
I think the car at that point was a black car.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
And when I went outside, I said, why is my
car silver?

Speaker 4 (05:24):
Never realized it was ash because the ash was like
like like that like overnight the ash had gone so
bad that it's like covered my car fully and I
was like, oh, this is this is not good for us.
So yeah, point though, y'all some people don't understand how
really terrifying it is have to like choose what you're
gonna bring with you and like knowing like you don't
like in that moment, like if you don't have a

(05:44):
disaster preparedness plan it's something here, then it really is
challenging for out do I take this or this? What
dockmas do I take? What clothes do I take? You know,
it is you also realize is this important to.

Speaker 3 (05:55):
Me or not? If it goes to the flames and stuff.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
So I'll just say, yeah, I've had I've had to
I was in that situation twice in my life. Back
in two thousand and three, there was the fire that
happened in San Bernardino that got really really close to
where I lived at the time. I was living on campus,
and so the fire was literally like right up against
like the rest hall that I was living in or

(06:18):
the dorm that I was living in, and I could
literally see the flames outside my window. And then in
two thousand and seven, the same thing happened again where
there was another hill next to where I lived. When
I was in school, that had caught fire. Actually someone
had set that hill on fire, and it was it
was a whole big to do. And so again, you know,
just the thought of having the star all over you know,
it's the thought of people who you know, specifically I

(06:41):
think about, you know, I know this person was pretty
has been pretty public about losing their home Boz. I
don't know if you watched Real Housewives of Beverly Hills,
but she had posted this long Instagram story basically about
how basically her house was a safe haven for her
as a black woman who worked in entertainment, and you know,
for her to wake up one day and for to

(07:03):
just be gone, you know, you know, and not knowing,
you know, in that time that her house burnt down,
not knowing what was happening. It's just something. So anyway,
I don't want to rain literally don't want to rain
on anyone's parade. We need the ring, but I do
want to say that, you know, we definitely want to
shout out those who are who are helping. And I'm

(07:24):
going to talk more about that in my yes ma'am,
talking about the people who are actually doing the work and
helping and all of that, and when we get there.
So I just wanted to say it's not lost on
us that we are we are recording at a time
where it's really bleak for a lot of people.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
So anyway, in the.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
Tradition of celebrating our girl Tisha Campbell and the fact
that we are still here and a lot of us,
my god, we have had to push the gidea, Oh
my god. I wanted to ask basically simply, how was
your holiday. Anything you did that you want to highlight
or tell the listeners about, Christina Aguilera, Mirifle Hostyle, anything

(07:59):
that thing in our time off that you just you
kind of want to reflect on.

Speaker 4 (08:04):
Okay, First of all, as you said that, I was
just like, I mean this, this is a possibly pause
for for Chris, but to.

Speaker 3 (08:12):
Sha Campbell, we should invite to Scha Campbell.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
You know what, but do it. I wish I could
fight Campble to the show, like, actually come.

Speaker 4 (08:25):
That would be a gag to us all ye. I
was like, wait, hold up, because now I can let
me just reset myself, me reflect my aspirations in life.
So this is a this is a wild holiday. First,
let let me let me discuss some joy we had.

(08:46):
Beyonce Able and that was everything.

Speaker 3 (08:48):
I must say that it was everything.

Speaker 4 (08:50):
I must say not everything, but it was fantastic. What
she gave us was fantastic. It was different, but what
she gives was necessary. Well all those honestly, but that
you know, that was a joy.

Speaker 3 (09:05):
You know, I don't care.

Speaker 4 (09:06):
I think if some of if you were some of
the those listeners, remember this, but in twenty sixteen, our
problematic queen who's not not my queen. Really, I just
love saying that. Kylie Jenner had talked about the year
it been the year of realizing things. She said, She's
just a year of realizing things. And I've been feeling
that in my spirit lately. Actually, I feel like twenty
twenty four.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
For me was a year of realizing things.

Speaker 4 (09:30):
You know, I as folks in my personal life know,
I had a sibling who was newly returned from incarceration
after thirty years, which was really like it's been they
have really had an incredible time adjusting to being out,

(09:51):
which is I mean, that's like it's amazing, like like
recidivism or like the process of going back to prison
for the same crime you commit, or just even though
I to the prison in general is high for many
folks and he unless they have a strong support system,
and he feels so supportive that like he's doing amazing.

(10:12):
But when he came out, we've had we've had a
lot of conversations about our family, our family passed and
our dad, and so like I realized, there's there's a
lot this This holiday was a lot of like realizing
things or learning things I did not know that really
shifted some things for me, which I'll share more as
we get into the shifts that I know you make
a point about about parents.

Speaker 3 (10:34):
So it was an interesting holiday.

Speaker 4 (10:36):
In that in that capacity, it was a great holiday
in the sense I got some good time off work,
some good time to like reset myself.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
I did.

Speaker 4 (10:45):
I did a little vision boarding, so I really set
some intentions for this next year and really got to actualize.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
But I just laugh every time people are like I
said good, I said intentions. I'm like, come on, man, infested,
I shouldn't have.

Speaker 4 (11:03):
You know, you know I carry I carry both like
I sent intentions and also like, girl, what does actually
mean for you? Like because like I mean because like
you made plans and God loves so I'm like my
attentions could not mean could not mean ship, but at
least I said them for myself.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Okay, you saying I set attentions and God laughed what happens?

Speaker 3 (11:28):
You know?

Speaker 1 (11:29):
God think it's just funny. And I'd be like, okay,
could you like that's you girl that's tried to do that?

Speaker 4 (11:37):
God be thinking they're a stentup comedian and I'm like, yeah,
calm down, girl. Literally literally Kevin Hart. I swear to God,
God is Kevin Hart. Every time I would even say that,
like you know, y'all know, I'll be saying, how do
I say this?

Speaker 3 (11:53):
So?

Speaker 1 (11:53):
Like it was funny because today when I was working out,
I thought about that. I thought about how like I thought, Okay, well,
when I come back from vacation, when I come off
from this break, I'm gonna go real hard with trying
to get this book sold, and blah blah blah blah.
And then the fucking fire happened, and I'm like, God,
can you not, like can we stop already? Like the
life is already hard for everybody at this point, and

(12:15):
it's just sometimes you just feel like, Okay, all right,
I get it. I need to just let me just
do what I'm gonna do, you know. But I will
say kind of in the same vein I think you know,
reflecting has been a really big thing for me these
last couple of weeks. As some of you may have known,
I didn't share it super publicly, but folks around me
that were very close they know that I had a

(12:37):
death in the family literally right before we went on break,
and so I genuinely didn't have a lot of time
during the holiday break to really even like break because
right after Christmas we went immediately into planning the memorial
for said family member who passed away, And so I
definitely want to give my family, specifically my husband, a

(12:58):
lot of credit for how much time and effort and
uh just for planning it. I think specifically, you know,
the idea of having to plan someone's memorial during a
time when everyone is supposed to be really happy and
really looking forward to seeing family and then to learn
that you know, family members not there is really really hard.
So I definitely wanted to to say, like shout out

(13:21):
to everybody who helped keep me and my partner lifted
during that time. But what I will also say is
that I really appreciate how intentional everything felt like. I'm
glad it didn't feel rushed. It really felt like the
day of the memorial that we you could, you could
genuinely tell that folks had taken the time to really
think about how they wanted to celebrate this person.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
And so that that, for me is what made me
feel feel good.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
But to be honest in all honesty, how you know,
just reflecting on twenty twenty four, how hard we worked,
how you know, something's happened and some things didn't. We
had it all plun We had a really big plan
to do a lot showing that kind of fell apart
at the last minute. There were just a lot of
a lot of There was a lot of time for

(14:05):
me to sit back and go, Okay, what do I
want to do differently in twenty twenty five, and specifically
what do I want to do differently in twenty twenty five?
And like, I you know, I think one of the
biggest things that I took away from that time of
reflection was basically saying, like, I don't have a lot
of time to myself the way I want it be,
because I've given so much of my time up to
do other things, whether it be working, whether it be

(14:28):
taking care of family, whether it be trying to fit
in friends and the needs of other people. And I
told myself in twenty twenty five, I definitely want to
put up the stop sign so much more and say no,
I really need, I really truly need to do this
for me so I can take a break for myself.
So I think that that's one of the reflecting pieces
for me is you know, you don't have to be

(14:48):
everything for everybody and definitely being okay with that. So yeah,
that's really really what I all that I truly have
per se But yeah, with that being said, per usual,
we have told Santa and all his als at his
time for them to go to hell. So with that

(15:09):
being said, we are going to take a break and
when we come back, we're going to jump into a
combo that I think might be sailient for a lot
of us, especially coming out of the holidays. A topic
on forget uh, the topic of forgiveness will be back
in a.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
Second, okay, y'all.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
So with me being the person who brought this up,
like I said, when me and Jojo were sitting around
and we were talking about what did we want to
come back into or how did we want to start
the year in twenty twenty five, with our first show
of the year, the topic of forgiveness came up, and
I wanted to get into something that I think we
I don't, girl.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
Have we touched on this topic before. I don't think
we have in the deep die that we're going to today, right.

Speaker 3 (16:01):
You know, a one hundred and three episodes. Who's to
say we haven't?

Speaker 6 (16:06):
No?

Speaker 4 (16:06):
Right? We know is that the body of work is long,
and the.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Body of work is long. I know that's right.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
Well, either way, if we have talked about it before,
yay uh, y'all have something y'all can go back to
and listen to before you.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
Listen to this.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
If we haven't, then this is is new for all
of us. But I think one of the things that
we have to think a lot about, specifically with with
just the way that the world is going and and
and how quickly things can can take shape and turn
and all of that. I I really wanted to get
into a conversation about people and folks specifically who like

(16:44):
to circle the block more specifically this conversation around forgiveness.
I bring it up because in the last few months
of you know, announcing that you know, our show has
won awards and announcing the fact that I have a
book coming out, and you know, all of these really
cool things that I feel like has happened around not
only just this show, but for both me and Joho.

(17:06):
People see me more than they have in the last
few years. And then so with that being said, you know,
with folks seeing me and seeing the stuff I'm doing,
they'll jump into the DMS and they'll say, hey girl,
I would love to reconnect to Hey girl, it's really
good to see that you're doing well. Let's chat, Let's connect.
And I was like, I don't know I feel about this,

(17:27):
and then I was gonna go on this really long
rant online about it, and then I was like, you
know what, I'll just save this for a show episode,
so that way it could actually be something that can
be more nuanced, because I feel like sometimes when you
rant online, folks can't really understand you, like there's no
context to the content, right, And so I was like,
I'll just save it for my good sis and we

(17:48):
can have a good you know, keikey about it and
we can really talk about our thoughts on the MIC.
And so I wanted to ask you, you know, I
specifically knowing that you are a super empathic person. I
was like, let me ask my good duty, how do
we navigate how do we talk about forgiveness? But I
didn't want to just talk about forgiveness on a very
like platonic or of a very surface level conversation. I

(18:11):
wanted to do it in two parts. So I wanted
to talk about forgiveness for family and acquaintances, or for
friends and acquaintances, and then I wanted to jump into family.
So wanted to kind of get your thoughts, like, how
do you the great empathic one, how do you kind
of approach forgiveness as a concept, And then how does
it look for you when you're navigating it from both

(18:33):
of those vantage points.

Speaker 4 (18:36):
This is a tough question to be asking a Libra
because Libras love harmony and love to please people.

Speaker 3 (18:44):
But as a Capricorn moon and rising, I.

Speaker 4 (18:46):
Also love like like I am very sturdy and rooted
in like what I believe is right and my vice
are justice and such, and so I think forgiveness as
a concept to me is never about the and it's
always about myself.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
There are many cases which I.

Speaker 4 (19:03):
Am very much of the mind of forgive, don't forget
but I also think, like you know, I think, I
think it depends on the ways the ways in which
I've been wounded by a person or by a thing,
right because right, because there's level, there's levels of this ship.

Speaker 3 (19:18):
There's levels too, Like what is what is there to forgive?

Speaker 4 (19:22):
You know? I think to your point about nuance, nuance
is important and what happened that you have to forgive
something for us needs to be forgiven. For Some people
say forgiveness so they can feel absolved.

Speaker 3 (19:34):
And I'm like, i am not. I'm not your gaga.

Speaker 4 (19:38):
You gotta take that with the big G upstairs. If
you want to feel absolved. That's not that I mean.
I mean, like like you know, like like that's for me.
I mean, I'm just saying, you know, I mean I mean,
like you know, I think of it right like like
like jewishly on Yankipore, which is the day of the
David Helment, you can ask somebody three times to forgive
you for something, and if they don't forgive you, God's like, Noah,

(19:59):
I got you, like you you came with God and
God's like, girl, I got you instead.

Speaker 3 (20:03):
Yeah, because you can't like you can't ask them to
give you and expect them to do. So. I think
what I am curious.

Speaker 4 (20:11):
About, you know, for you is when someone's like, oh,
hey girl, I see you're making it and I want
to connect with you. I think I'm curious of like
what is that you feel like you have to forgive
them for right like like did like did they did
they wound you in the past and now like and
now they're trying to.

Speaker 3 (20:28):
Come up, come up or you know or like or
like or like is it just someone that.

Speaker 4 (20:34):
You like lost touch with and they like like and
yes said like they see you doing better, they see
you doing more now and they and they and they
want to they you know some people I think also
like I think sometimes when when this thing's happened, we
automatically assume people's intentions like oh, they're trying to get
like getting on the bag with me, and like it's real,

(20:55):
it happens, it happens, like it, yeah, it happened, and
and and sometimes like time and just Tommy just so
Tommy just aligns in the way of their saying like
I know you successful and I see you more and
it made me realize that I want to see you
more in my life and like you know, and like
and your success, your your success isn't isn't what's drawn
me to you. It's just that it's you. It's it's

(21:17):
you yourself, And so yeah, that's fair. Yeah, I would
say that's kind of how I how I view with
with like with friends and acquaintances, I would say, families
have a different stating that we can get into you
in a bit by think friends and family are people
you know that you not see often. I think that's
how I approach it. And then and then again like
recognizing that if this is like a you know, a

(21:40):
colleague in the field or a friend or whatever, if
they wounded me, and you know, like.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
I think it's more. I think it's it's not so.

Speaker 4 (21:53):
Much like can't get over the wound because the wound
will always be there, right, like, okay, there, it will
heal and maybe can we can we move? Yes exactly,
And I think for me it's like it or we're
like can I can I can I feel good about

(22:14):
being in space or community with the person.

Speaker 3 (22:15):
Who gave me this scar?

Speaker 4 (22:17):
And can I well? And can I say, like a girl,
you gave him a scar and that's okay. I'm willing
to risk that again, because everything you do with people
is your risk, right, Like you never actually know who
will hurt you, right, Like all you do is trust,
right like of the day, truly listeners, John and I
never know if we'll ever hurt each other.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
We trust that we won't. I trust John has a back.
John trust that I have their back, right right, And
all we can do is show each other.

Speaker 4 (22:45):
That in real time and like and so if that
happens with somebody that that hurts you, you, I think
we also have to think, am I willing to be
vulnerable again with this person? And also and sometimes the
answers like no, girl, no, like that woman was too deep,
that cut, that cut was too much, so f youo
and and there it's also okay to be like no,

(23:06):
it's good.

Speaker 3 (23:07):
I think.

Speaker 4 (23:07):
I think for me, I'm the person where I would
I would rather just like I'd rather move through it
because I really can move past on anything because at
the day, at the end of the day, nobody affects me,
nobody affects me more than me.

Speaker 3 (23:18):
Is how I feel sometimes.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
Okay, that's real, that's actually I appreciate you saying that.
I feel like we oftentimes are the ones who hurt
ourselves more than anybody. But you you make a really
good point because I actually didn't even think about it
from that that that idea. I thought about it from
the scope of, Okay, this person did me dirty by
cutting me off, and now they're trying to come back.
Can I forgive them for cutting me off the way

(23:41):
that they did, or for just kind of leaving me
out in the cold. And that might be my Leo mind,
that could be the way that my Leo heart is,
you know how it moves. But I appreciate you saying like,
did someone do something to me that wounded me? And
and to a degree too. You know, I'm sure that
there are listeners who probably are listening to this episode
and saying, yeah, having somebody like just kind of like
you off or leave you out in the cold is

(24:01):
a wound, right like that, that's something that could potentially
hurt someone, especially when you you, like, for instance, with me,
like I I think that I think a big part
of this conversation comes from too, like some of the
people who have tried to circle the block on me,
where people that I truly was truly, truly vulnerable with
and that I told them a lot. They knew a
lot about me, they knew a lot about my lived experience.

(24:25):
When I'm not a person who feels like I open
up to people that easy, Like there were still people
like I shared something at work this week and people
were like, I never knew that about you, and I've
worked with you for five years, and I'm like, yeah,
you'll never know. You know, I don't tell just because
just because I come off as a very public person
doesn't mean I'm telling you everything. And so I think

(24:45):
that that's something that I you know, when I share
something with someone or when I even call someone a friend,
I think about it from you know, I don't really play.
And that's the other part that that kind of lives
in this conversation. And I know we're probably tangenting and
going everywhere but where where we've meant to go. But
I also will say too, like I take friendship so
seriously because I don't believe I have a lot of friends, right,

(25:07):
you know, associates. Yes, there are people in this industry
that I know, and people, but anyone who's ever been
to my home, anyone who has my phone number, anyone
that I has my address, and I tell them y'all,
can you could you're open to come stay in my home.
That's a different level for me because I don't just
invite anybody in my home. I don't invite everybody's energy
into my space. And so I think I treat friendship

(25:28):
so you know, especially acquaintances who have turned into friends.
You know, I would say that about you like you
were someone I saw at work every day and you
became a friend of mine, you became my sister, and
so you know, I take what we have so much
more serious than just oh, that's my my you know,
my podcasting buddy, that's the person that I know. You're

(25:49):
my sister. I'm on the mic with you every week.
We're chatting, we're talking like I'm going to you about
some really serious stuff. And so I think, you know,
when we come back to this conversation around forgiveness, sometimes
for me because it stings and because it hurts so
deep when a person kind of you know, cuts me
off per se, it does feel like a wound in

(26:09):
a lot of ways. But you bring up a really
good point around this idea of, like I said, us
being wounded, and I often too, will say even thinking
about it from the conversation I had at work this week.
We were talking about healing work and doing some deep
intentional healing work. Sometimes we don't recognize that some of
the things that people do to us will reflect stuff
that happened to us in our past and are in

(26:31):
our childhood and how that triggers stuff. And I think,
you know, I'll be transparent and saying and talking about
forgiveness and its specifically for giving people who like quote
unquote circle the block. I know that I have abandonment issues,
like I know that I have dealt with friends and
family who have just you know, especially when I came
out that just stopped talking to me, and how that

(26:53):
shows up. And so that's why I take friendships so
seriously because it's like, you know, I've had to I've had.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
To like relearn how to trust people in a certain way.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
And when you just kind of like dip out or
when you kind of just cut me off, it opens
up that wound of abandonment that I've been I've been
trying to heal ever since I was a kid. But yeah,
we can go on for days about that, but I I,
like I said, I really appreciate you mentioning it. From
that vantage point or from that one.

Speaker 3 (27:21):
I also just.

Speaker 4 (27:22):
Want to say, like I've just a point like you,
like you may come, you may a comment like about
being a LEO, and people will tell you, like people
will tell you it's not worth it, it's not worth
it to get your LIT back. But I can't I
can't say that's not I can't say that's true. Like
I may not do the person to get my LIG back,

(27:43):
but I also don't I would never say that it's
not good for somebody, like I think just to me,
like I'm all about karmic energy, so like shit bounces
out right like if you if you get your LIT back,
you know, don't indage someone's life, but you could you
live back girl, and then you just been good for
somebody else like work, you know, So I think it
we're obviously I'm not condoning anybody to go and like

(28:03):
attack somebody, you know, I'm not condonting that, right, I'm
not conduting like go and like go and like revenge somebody.
But like like what way I'm saying is like it
is like like sometimes like people make decisions that hurt you,
and sometimes their consequences for those decisions and so like
and so like if like if you know, like to
a point, to a point about forgiveness, and sometimes forgiveness

(28:25):
for yourself means looks like getting getting your live back
in some way, and like, who am I stopping from that?

Speaker 3 (28:32):
Girl? I think we're all complex people.

Speaker 4 (28:35):
I know some people are like drag like during Joe,
I can't if you say that on air, but like
because it's so it's like it's unlike me.

Speaker 3 (28:41):
But that that's very that's that's that's that's.

Speaker 4 (28:44):
Just like not who I am, right, Like I don't
need to do that to feel forgiveness for myself.

Speaker 3 (28:47):
I don't need to do that. But like if someone does,
like I'm I'm not trying.

Speaker 4 (28:52):
I'm not I'm not gonna stop them from doing makes
them feel, makes them help them, help some heal as
long as as a song as that link back actually
helps you heal. Most times peopleill find it does not
help them heal, and it does like a temporary enjoyment.
But like you know, like like like sometimes sometimes the
last laugh can Now, don't try it on me, girl,
because I will, I will, I will look back.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
Okay, you say you said try God or try Jesus.
But don't try me.

Speaker 4 (29:20):
I know that's try Jesus trying, Moses, trying twelve try
try me.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
Absolutely not know.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
So so, you know, I know we could go on
for days about talking about the friendships and all of that,
but I was gonna say a big part of this
and where this comes from, and so I'm I'm almost god,
I'm so scared to go here, but I'm going to
because this is the podcast that we have a big
part of this conversation comes from an actual family member

(29:49):
who has circled the block and and and yes, had did,
had did did some dirt to not only just me
but my fa but other folks in my family, and
has been really trying to play this whole kind of like, oh,
I'm really glad to see that. It's it's it's kind
of like a one, it's like a both and right.
So I've had friends do it, but now seeing family

(30:12):
do it and knowing what this family member has done,
and this family member might even listen to the show,
and so if they do shout out to you, you know,
I always think about too. You know something my therapist
told me that you know, sometimes people are like, oh,
I'm so afraid to share, you know, or talk about
this person, you know, because I don't want them thinking that,
you know, I don't want them knowing. I don't want

(30:33):
this person knowing that I think this way about them.
And the way my therapists framed it for me, and
I talk about this in my book too, is well
maybe they should have treated you better.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
And I think.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
Therapists had some words and points were.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Made, points were made, and so to get to get
to where I'm going, you know, I've been thinking so
much about this because as I'm getting older and as
this family member is also getting older, and knowing that
this family member hurt both me and some other folks
in my family, and going out on the limits saying that,
you know, I'm gonna leave this person anonymous. You can

(31:10):
see the show notes, so you know who I'm talking about.
But I'm gonna leave this person anonymous. But this person
just they they were very How do I say this
because I've been trying to I've been trying to stop
using the word. Someone had mentioned that, you you know,
calling somebody, what's the word you call someone when they're
really self absorbed, really self absorbed, narcissistic. Someone was saying

(31:33):
that that's a problematic word because are they truly narcissistic
or do they just know how to get there? Do
they know how to get their needs met? So that's
something I was like, Oh, I never really thought about
that right Like doing it was also the word someone
was like, are they really manipulative? Are they really narcissistic?
Or do they just know how to get their needs?

Speaker 3 (31:48):
Man to you?

Speaker 1 (31:52):
It was not therapist, respectfully, it wasn't a therapist it was,
but it was somebody who said that.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
But I said, I of that to say.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
Now when we get to family, I think that it's
different because sometimes I'll specifically say this, watching my partner
lose their parents in real time and knowing one of
my parents is not my favorite person has made me
feel guilty that I haven't forgiven my father the way
that I should. For forgiven my father, for forgiving some

(32:22):
of my uncles, forgiving some of my cousins, for a
lot of the stuff that they said and did to
me growing up. And so I guess I wanted to
kind of like not necessarily come here for validation, but
kind of just get another person's voice on, like, how
do you deal with forgiveness when it's a little bit
more personal.

Speaker 4 (32:37):
So okay, first, the person that said because I said,
I don't mean it when I say respectully shut up,
but I will say.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
Respectfully fuck you go off.

Speaker 4 (32:48):
Like I like I hear what they're saying. So like
I hear they're saying, like, but like I guess I
would say to that point, right, like like if the
other needs met, but like but at what cost, Like
if their needs had to be met through tearing others
down or hurting others narcissism to me, and their needs

(33:11):
had to be met through making others do something else manipulation,
Like I think they're like, like there's a difference between
there's a difference to their point, between narcissism, manipulation and
get your needs met. Like if you if you get
your needs met means that you have to down other people.
I don't think that's I don't think that's actually a
good way your needs met personally.

Speaker 3 (33:31):
So just want to put that on that.

Speaker 4 (33:34):
You bring up some that's actually very very like applicable
to my life at present and in a bit of
a different way because I'm like I'm reckoning with with
like a past thing right now. So like so I'll share,
like I mentioned earlier, with my sibling who was released
from garceration, I've learned something some stuff about my dad,

(33:55):
a blessed memory, something more, things that he had did,
and through therapy, I'm encovering some like how how some
like how some of my behaviors are actually part of
like my upbringing with him as my parent. Yeah, I
mean with both my parents in some ways, but like
with my dad as a parent, And it's hard, and
like it's hard for me because I'm like having to

(34:15):
reckon with it like like righte like retrospectively, because he's
not here anymore for me to talk about it with.
He's not hearing anymore from me to like process with
right I don't and I and I know I can't
process like no other sibling, Like we all had diferent experiences,
and we had some similar ones, but this one was
like you know, like I don't like it to me,
like it's my experience, and so like I can't there's

(34:38):
no way for me to like process it with him.
And so I'm working through like my lens of like
forgiveness because if I take just my experience, like and
it's that I've actually thought about this lot of therapy.
Like I'm just at a place now where I've realized
that like two things like these things can be true

(34:59):
at the same time. With my dad, but like ye,
he was a very affectionate parent and showed me a
lot of what he believed was like lovingness as a parent.

Speaker 3 (35:08):
And he also wasn't shit gotcha? He also.

Speaker 4 (35:13):
Like right, because what do you mean I'm with you
at your drudgular's house every week?

Speaker 3 (35:18):
Right right?

Speaker 4 (35:18):
What like like like like you're off in the back
room doing drugs, I'm in his front room with his katanas,
or or I'm left out in the car for an
hour like set like somewhere in the area that I
don't feel safe in right at my ten years old, right,
So it's like I realized now that my I've realized
recently that I actually have never I don't often feel

(35:43):
physically safe in many places. Like I'm the type of
person where I like, like, if if I come into
your house and your house is un locked, girl, we
have a problem.

Speaker 3 (35:52):
If you don't have two front door, you don't have
a screen door like like a lock screen, a metal
grape metal door and a front door together, we have
a problem, like what do you mean you only have
one door that was with one lock, where I have
four locks in my house growing up, What do you mean? Right?

Speaker 4 (36:08):
So, like and so and so and that a lot
of it is because, like when my dad was not home,
which is often, I felt unsafe that someone could come
and hurt us, because people would be on being on
our door set at two am, knocking on our windows
because of him, and you know, or like or like
and so it leads to like feelings of the safety
or like not feeling secure in places that I live

(36:30):
in because what if something is what, someone's going to
be at our door trying to kill us or something,
and and and like, which is dramatic in some ways,
but I'm like, oh wow, this was like really like really.

Speaker 3 (36:39):
Real ship that I'm uncovering currently.

Speaker 4 (36:41):
And so I think right now I have to reckon
with Like I'm mad at him. In ways, I think
about when I was younger and didn't have the language too, right,
I don't have the language to understand that all the
things I had were part of my anxiety that I
now have, like but I now understand as an adult.
But like, so it's like I can't tell him. I
can't be like, damn it, dad, you did this to me,

(37:03):
you know, but I have to. And so it's my
point about fregatness for myself, not for him, Like I like,
I have to forget. I want to forgive him because
I know that he didn't get the tools that he
had to be a good parent, like the daily Like
this man, this man when he when he was sixteen seventeen,
he was shot by by by his own grandparent, by

(37:24):
his own he was shot by his own grandparents and
by and by by his own dad.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
Like he was not getting the tools to be successful.

Speaker 4 (37:31):
Right right, right, it's a parent to me or to
any of his children.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
And that's what I revel with that a lot of times.
It's like, you know, that whole thing of hurt people,
hurt people. That is something that I've been trying to
think a lot about as I process, like what forgiveness
looks like for me as I get older?

Speaker 4 (37:47):
And so yeah, go ahead, sorry, sorry, It's like I
think the person right who's trying to come back in true life,
you know, time to just everything. You're getting older, they're
getting older, and so I wonder if it's not so
much about like like right, Like, if you weren't quote

(38:08):
quote successful, would they still be doing this?

Speaker 7 (38:11):
Right?

Speaker 4 (38:11):
And like and if they were, it might be more
about they're older and they realize I wasn't present, and
I want to change that now.

Speaker 3 (38:20):
And I'm and you, and it's it's.

Speaker 4 (38:22):
Not that I'm seeing you successful and like buying a
doing a book, but I'm seeing you. I'm seeing you
be joyful. I'm seeing you and your and your and
your your loved ones be joyful. And I realized that
I that you're joyful in spite, in spite of what
I've done, and I and I realized that I want
to be a part of that and I want to
help add to that now maybe right.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Right, And you're right, and I love that you have
that perspective.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
But I would also say, like I think in this,
in this conversation, and it's not even about me, Like
I think about what you just shared with me about
your own you know, your father passing, and the stuff
that you learned and the feelings that you have, Like
so sometimes this idea of how hard it is for
you to feel like folks are deserving a forgiveness And
so I guess that's kind of like the you know,
because we're so limited on time, we can't like super

(39:11):
dive into a pra have to come back to this
topic again. But I think that that's something that I
want our listeners to like here and to really kind
of like sit with. Is this idea that while both
me and Joe Hoo are sitting here and we're kind
of talking about this nuanced and this surround forgiveness that
each of you have, the like, there's there's an element

(39:32):
of validation around you get to forgive the way you
want to forgive. Right, So, whether the person is alive
for you to forgive them, or that person has gone
on to you know, to glory and you want to
forgive them for what they did, you have the right
to do that. If the person is still living and
you sit with this idea of it's fuck you forever, girl,
I'm never gonna I'm never gonna get over what you

(39:53):
said or did to me. Right, Like, you you have
the right, And I appreciate you sharing your perspective the
way that you do, JO hope, because it often gives
that Like there's this element of autonomy and how we
get to forgive and how we get to grow with
these really difficult and tough conversations. And so with that
being said, I don't know if there's anything else like

(40:14):
I was. I just appreciate you being so virgin Mary
with all of your stuff.

Speaker 3 (40:19):
Not virgin Mary stuff. Put me on one of them
candles mother to resent.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Jewish mother, Teresa girl.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
But no, real, it's real because I think so many
of us are you know, like I said, we're all
getting older, we're seeing the world change so quickly, and
some of us feel guilty that we're like not wanting
to forgive people for what they've done to us, or
that we're not easy. And I think that's that's what
this conversation is. It's like how some people are so
easy to forgive others for what they've done, and how

(40:52):
some of us aren't. I'm not that girl that that's like,
once you do me dirty, it's it's curtain. It's real
hard for me to come back to want to actually
be real cool with you after you've done me dirty.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
And you know, so you.

Speaker 4 (41:09):
Know, I think what I can leave on is I
think I think that's a lot because like my sister
and I talk about this quite often because she's all
she's also the time to be like one's girl.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
It's a chop for me. And she has you.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
You get along, Oh, I know your sister you've got
and that's it, you know.

Speaker 4 (41:29):
And she's talked to me sometimes about being like a pushover,
right and I and I think, I think, I just
to me, it's a few things everyone in here.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
If I believe in a free world like the way.

Speaker 4 (41:42):
That I believe it, then I also believe, whether it's
good or bad, that everyone deserves forgiveness. I believe that
every now now I be deserves forgiveness, and that same
thing everyone deserves to give it or not like everyone
every does, everyone deserves told.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
Me to say, I give it.

Speaker 4 (41:57):
You may not so like you may deserve, you may
deserve forget this girl, but that that that that don't
mean that you'll get it. And if you don't get it,
that's the need to figure out what happened?

Speaker 2 (42:06):
Is that something that you want? Yes, well you're not
gonna get.

Speaker 4 (42:09):
It, period, And that's how she got her look back.
And that's what I'm saying, right like, you know you're
not gonna get it, And so you know, I think
I think it's definitely very much like I I view
it in that way, and then and then and then
I also see it like.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
Truly, it's like what that.

Speaker 4 (42:28):
Person did to me didn't destroy me. No weapon inform
against me shall prosper like so like you.

Speaker 3 (42:35):
Know, like I'm cool, like.

Speaker 4 (42:37):
I I I forgive what they thought was going to
destroy me and did not. Like still I still I rise, Okay, nonetheless,
I like dust I rise, like like this is the
stuff to me, This is up to me that like
that's that's that's my scripture, right, that's the stuff that.

Speaker 3 (42:55):
I will pull that I will pick back up.

Speaker 4 (42:58):
And it happens and say no it does, horiz girl,
Like it's not about me being a pushover. It's acknowledging
like like you actually don't have to power me to
like make me hurt that bad, Like that part that's real.
That shot you took wasn't a shot you thought it was, girl,
And I'm good.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
You thought you had a gun, but it was a
bow and arrow.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
Girl.

Speaker 3 (43:17):
I'm saying, if that bitch, it was a stick. It
was a stick. Okay, it was a stickerl an.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
Arrow, bitch, you was a stick.

Speaker 4 (43:25):
Yeah yeah, And don't make me, don't don't made me
bring my forty five out of my bag.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
Hello, I don't have one.

Speaker 3 (43:31):
I don't I keep it made never.

Speaker 4 (43:35):
But listen, when Mian said I just enter the country
with derringers, I was like, no, I feel a girl.

Speaker 7 (43:41):
Because it rists with the way things are going these days,
we may want to get us a little twenty two
to keep it a cute little a cute little Louis
Bags girl, because the way this world is going, my God,
by God.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
But yeah, you said a word, you said a word.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
You thank you.

Speaker 4 (43:57):
Okay, So now y'all have to I mean, you don't
have to give us. You can choose not to forgive us,
but we hope you will forgive this. Because we got
to stand down on business and take a quick break.

Speaker 3 (44:06):
We will be back shortly.

Speaker 4 (44:17):
Okay, Fam, we are back, and this week we want
to start the section off by knowledge of this topic
might be heavy and want to put a trigger warning
on it because it's about audiation and self harm. So
for those who might find it too much, we will
attempt to put chapters in like the show notes, so
you can skip to the yes Fam and no man
PAMs and skip this part.

Speaker 3 (44:35):
And if you want to stay here, I'm glad. I'm
glad you're with us as well to talk to talk
about this.

Speaker 4 (44:40):
So with that, I wanted to ask Jean and I'll
clear you'll, I'm not just asking John this like out
of nowhere. John's okay with me asking this before we
got like, excuse me, girhr Like, I know that you've
danced on the topic on the show before and you've
recently mentioned it offline. So with all of that is
coming down the pipeline in America, in the world, how

(45:03):
are you navigating your ideation currently? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (45:06):
Well not you put me on blast. I'm just kidding, no,
I very much. So again, we vet every single topic
that we.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
Saw it so.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
Show Yeah, I'm like, we got show notes, so this
is vet it.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
We like this, We cleared this. No, it's good.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
I I I mentioned it because I don't know if
you all, like, I mean, obviously you're you're you're going
to talk about later. But we've seen an uptick and
I don't know if it's I don't know if it's
media it's just covering it more. But I'm feeling like
we're seeing more influencers who are unliving themselves. We're seeing
more and more people talk about the want to unlive

(45:46):
themselves or even people talking about you know, I remember
just posting about something and someone saying like, yeah, I
it was actually a friend of mine, a friend of mine.
She had posted something and then someone responded to her
and said, I literally just went to my doctor last
week and asks them to up my dosage. So that
way I could, you know, I could basically just function.

(46:07):
And I just appreciate, like, I think it's imperative that,
you know, we don't just talk about the fun and
we don't talk about the stuff that makes us laugh
on the show, that we talk about, you know, stuff
that's real for us. And one of it is that
there are people who are living with suicidality and ideation
and I'm one of those people. And so and I
think that there's so much shame that's connected to this topic.
And I know that we could go we could go

(46:27):
for hours talking about it. But I think for me,
the one thing I will say that I wanted to
point out is, you know, I've gotten to a point
where I have where I've had to kind of plan
how I was going, how I'm going to lead my
life right, the intentional things, and so like I've tweeted before.
If you need medication, get on medication. If you need

(46:47):
someone to talk to, find someone to talk to. If
you don't have medical coverage to get medication or to
talk to someone, find someone who can help you find
the coverage that you need to get to carry thorough
lot of There are a lot of people out there,
especially now with everything that's going on, that are offering
you know, low cost, if not free help, right, whether

(47:10):
it be through you know, planned parenthood or whether it
be through you know, and there there are multitudes of
resources center care center, Yeah, an LGBTQ center, you know
what you some colleges, you know, some colleges you can
go to their you know college and say, hey, I'm
dealing with this thing, and I know I'm not a
student here, but do you know of any resources I

(47:31):
even know in my organization, like we have an actual
Like if you're if you're a person listening to this
and you just need some help, I have a resource
through my job that can that can point you to
bigger and longer resources to help you get what you need.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
Right.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
So, I think the biggest part is just kind of
reaching out and saying, Yo, I need some help, you know.
I think that's the first thing, is letting folks that
you know that you love know that you need some help.
But also on top of that too, being okay with
doing the work to get better. And I think oftentimes
people think with ideation and sociality, like people just think
you wake up one day and it's like, oh it's gone,

(48:07):
and it's like no, girl, Like, I'm having to do
things day in and day out to remind myself that
I have a life to live and that I that
I deserve to be here. And I think that's been
the biggest thing that has really kept me from going
to the upper Room and keep and staying here is
waking up and saying, no, I have a reason to
be here, Like every day I wake up is the

(48:29):
universe's way of reminding me you have a purpose to
be here. So the realist answer that I have for
you is is knowing that my existence is resistance and
being okay with that and really saying like, me being
here is encouraging other queer people to be here, and
that even if they're going to continue to keep trying
to make this world hell, then hell, I'll just I'll

(48:51):
just act up with you right, Like, I'm gonna do
just as much as you want me gone is just
as much as I want to be here, and we
just gonna have to were gonna have some one of
us is gonna win, and it's gonna be me right.
I think that's really how I look at it. But
I definitely do want to say, like, as someone who
wakes up every day with being like you do know
that the one to want to die, I could come back,

(49:12):
girl is. It's definitely reaching out And I will say
this too. I put this in my notes and I
forgot to say it. You know, there's a part of
me that also recognizes too that you know, while I'm
not a person who has ever gotten to a place
where I actually like did it, I've never had a
full plan, I am a person who fully understands it.
And I want to validate that too, that there are

(49:34):
people who might be listening to this and they say
it's more than just saying, oh, I have a right
to be here and I want to live. No, Like,
it's deeper.

Speaker 3 (49:41):
It is.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
It's a lot of soul searching, it's a lot of work,
it's a lot of energy. There are going to be
hard days where you genuinely feel like why me, Why
why did this brain get put in my head to
feel like I want to not be here every day?
Like there's all of these different pieces, but I think
the bigger part for me personally is just saying, like,
by me staying here, I think that's the thing that

(50:02):
keeps me here. By me staying here, I'm encouraging other
people to stay here, and that's enough for me to
want to stay here.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
If that makes sense.

Speaker 4 (50:13):
It makes per make sense, and as you're as you're
as you're speaking and made me think of because I
was telling you that there is someone that.

Speaker 3 (50:18):
I follow who allowed themselves recently, and like, I think,
like the point of like I want to stay here
is such a.

Speaker 4 (50:28):
It's like such it's like such a challenging one because
I think like and in almost every post I see
where someone allows themselves right, they always apologize for it,
which to me is like what makes my hurt a
lot is like everyone's sorry, Like they're saying, you know,
like like I'm sorry I wasn't strong enough, or I'm
sorry that I did this right, or I'm sorry that

(50:49):
hurt you, And it makes me sad because I think
like how did we as people around you let you
get to that point where you like, like like we're
not only all that you to harm yourself, but that
you'd apologize for it that you have like like like
like like that, like like even in death, you're still

(51:10):
being apologetic for how you lived.

Speaker 3 (51:13):
And that.

Speaker 4 (51:15):
Makes me really sad. And in that same name, right,
the people who are like I have work to do
here still well, everything's just like like don't stay here
just because you have work to do, right, like like
stay here for yourself.

Speaker 3 (51:31):
You deserve to be here exactly because you deserve to
be here.

Speaker 4 (51:35):
And I think that's like I wish, I wish we
were told that more by people around us, like we
like I believe in.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
My with my full spirit that we all deserve to
be here.

Speaker 4 (51:51):
We do, even even if we don't agree on things, right,
even even if one person, like even if we hate
the person who's our president, right, like everyone deserves everyone
just to be here for now.

Speaker 3 (52:01):
But yeah, go for better or for worse whatever worse.

Speaker 4 (52:05):
Like but but but it's true like I would and
like and it's like the voice, it's like the voice
of the voice of the voice of the monster around.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
You is louder.

Speaker 4 (52:15):
It's louder than it's a lot of than the voice
of like the joys around you, right, you know you
like you you can tell people tell the truth, and
tell the truth in him the devil.

Speaker 3 (52:25):
But the devil will be loud as fu sometimes.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
Some girl the loudest person in the room. And that's
that's the trick. The trick is really to get how
do you get that that sound that voice to turn
down or how do you know kind of I've always
said it for me is you know, I've always looked
at it as as a figure, like a figurative person, right,
And it's it's gender not conforming. It's not male or female.

(52:48):
It's a it's a it's a physical being that oftentimes
will knock at my door and will like wave to
be in the window of like hey girl, let me in.
And I have done the work to look around and go, oh,
you're not welcome here, like you know you you know
you ain't you know you like for for for me,
it's you you know you have a stayaway order, right,

(53:09):
like you know that I went down to the court
and I got a you know what do they call
it a restrain? A restraining or you know, I got
a restraining order on on on you.

Speaker 3 (53:17):
Girl.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
You ain't supposed to be here. Girl, you gotta why
are you at my door? Like you know you ain't you?
And so that's how I've had to learn to like,
that's how I've learned to work through it, is to
look at this figure through a window and say, you
don't deserve to be here, right like you're You're not
gonna come in and disturb this piece that I have.
And it's a nobody and sometimes you you know, I'll

(53:40):
hear it shaking, the shaking the door handle, I'll hear
her with her keys trying to figure out how to
get in, and I, you know, and I and I
have to turn that down. I have to turn that
that inner voice down to say that is not gonna
like it can't win, like you have so much more
to do. And I want to make it very clear
that I know that I do recognize that it's not

(54:02):
this simple for everybody, and that there's nothing wrong with
someone saying I was not and and and I know
someone some may take issue with this. Some people may
say I'm not strong enough to deal with this, so
I'm out of here, that's okay too, right, Like, it's
okay if a person feels like I, I just this
this this journey isn't for me. This journey wasn't for me.

(54:24):
I was not strong enough to handle it. I got
I gotta get up out of here. That's okay, because
you know what, this shit is hard. Being being I'll
say being anybody is hard, but I think specifically living
in this, this, this living in this plot line of
America two point zero is hard. And I can see

(54:45):
why people would say I'm about of here, But I
think it is very imperative to recognize too that, like
you said, we all deserve to be here, and I
think that's something I want. I don't know who's listening
may need to hear it, but that is how That's
what I tell myself every day in order for me
not to let that voice in or to let that
that figure in.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
If that makes sense.

Speaker 4 (55:07):
You know, I laugh because I laugh a little bit
because of what you say. Sound like this season of
America is gonna be rough, so.

Speaker 3 (55:18):
Buckle up for this is a finale. It's in four years,
so this season is gonna be rough.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
My god, my god.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
But in the same time, we can laugh about it
because I think that that this is also you know,
and this is what I've been saying to people. You know,
it's related, but it's not related. I think a big
part of what we're gonna have to do in order
for us to get through these next four years is
we're gonna have to lean on each other more than
we've ever leaned on each other before. We've got to
find our communities. We have got to find our podcasts,

(55:47):
we have got to find our people. We've got to
find our family, whether it be real family you want
to reconnect with if you've forgiven them for whatever, are
they forgiven you for whatever, and you want to reconnect
and rebuild, Like, there's gonna be a lot of intienttionality
that we're gonna have to do in order for us
to support and to live through these next four years.
And again, I want us to live a long, bountiful life.

(56:09):
But I think it's very imperative for folks to know
that it's not without struggle, right, Like, nothing that we're
we're up against in the next four years is going
to be without you know, and even longer it could
be longer. Who knows, Right, Like, you know, some of
our lives may be a full struggle, maybe a struggle
for the rest of our time here. Who knows, But
I know for me, a big part of me saying like,

(56:31):
it won't be me who gets me up out of here.
But that's how I see it. Like and and again,
not shaming those who have I want to make that
very clear that Doctor Higgins is not shaming anybody for
whatever they do because again, choices. We are all people
who have the right choice. I'm just saying, as for
me and mine, it will not be me who gets
me up out of here, you know. So that being said,

(56:57):
with this being one of our heaviest episodes, I promise
it won't always be that way. We are going to
take a breath, we are going to take a break,
We're gonna pay some bills, and then we're gonna come
back and have some fun with yes ma'am.

Speaker 6 (57:11):
And No Man Pam more in a second, all.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
Right, everybody, So we were coming back our last segment,
our yes ma'am and No Man Pam. This is for
for those of you who are new to the show
who may have found us over the break. No Yes
ma'am and No Man Pam is basically where we either
give people their flowers or we hit them with them.
And with that being said, this week, we're gonna just
start off. Mine are very quick and very straight to
the point. This week, I wanted to give my yes, ma'am,

(57:46):
just to the ways that I see people coming together
to support those who have lost so much, whether it
be from the fires, whether it be from you know,
just like I even saw people, you know, trying to
make sure that families who had lost their jobs for
the holiday had a good holiday.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
Like it just it I feel a sense.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
Of there's there's there's a lot of quote unquote and
I hate using this word dividedness. There's a lot of dividedness.
But I feel like I've watched, specifically black people, I've
seen a lot of people come together in so many
different ways in the last couple of weeks, and I'm like,
that's what specifically, like I said, with these fires, does
it piss me off that it feels like it has

(58:26):
to take something terrible for us to come together in community? Yes,
But what I will say is like I appreciate getting
emails and seeing companies say hey, we recognize you're going
through a tough time. We want to support you. We
want you to know that you're seeing that you're valued,
and you know, we don't want to make this time
harder for you. So anybody who's doing anything that they
can to support others, specifically, not only just around the fires,

(58:47):
but in general, my hat is off to you.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
Now.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
My no Manpam, like I said, it's a very quick one.
My no Manpam is going to be the Tesla owners,
and not specifically because Elon Musk is trash. We all
know that I wanted to say no Man Pam to
Tesla owners because there's.

Speaker 2 (59:04):
Just a certain.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
There's a certain you know what Jenna say, Quah, there's
a certain type of person who often drives a Tesla. Yes,
and they make being on the road hell from the
way that they park to the way that they like
dart through.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
People in and out of it, like you're not the
only way.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
Like even yesterday I had to go to the mall
to exchange something and this Tesla person, like this Tesla
driver jumped in front of me and I'm like, girl,
you are not the only person in the parking lot,
Like can you not? Like it's just it's so it's
just you know, again, I don't want to I don't
want to generalize Tesla drivers, but there is just a

(59:45):
certain something about certain Tesla drivers that really makes me
want to jump out of my character and and and
and have to use bail money, you know. They just
it's just something about them, like, baby, you're not the
only person on the road, what about you?

Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
Sis? Girl? So am, I have a lot to get
through today.

Speaker 4 (01:00:06):
So my yes, ma'am is gonna be a both and okay, okay,
because it's a yes, no no. Meta announced recently that
they're that they're they're rolling back their third party fast
chicking policies. As I'm sure you all know, that's obviously
a notes chuted for me on that one, because like,
like what why would you do that?

Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
So yes, it's a it's a yes.

Speaker 4 (01:00:27):
Yes mama and the yes mom say yes ma'am. Two
people who are setting up to do the community notes,
who are community making information factual. Like when I saw
the policies, I said, let me join the wait list
to be a part of the communities program, because if
that's what we're gonna do, then, like I I want
to trust that, like I can be somebody who's helping

(01:00:49):
actually give factional information on things right, you know, and
and that and I and so, and I know some
folks who have also signed up or are trying to
be part of that program to say, if you're gonna
give us thirty probably fat checkers, then we will take
a power to our own hands and become actual fat
checkers too. And I think that's amazing. I love to
see community coming together in that way. And my numbam

(01:01:13):
hands are related to the fires.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
My god, girl, you got a laundry list.

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
First. If you are in danger, please go.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
Lead.

Speaker 4 (01:01:29):
Stop feeling yourself will in immediate danger. I do not
need to see you screaming to get stuff together and
then kissing your home goodbye. I need you to get out.
I need you to leave. I need you to flee
once you're safe.

Speaker 3 (01:01:46):
Influence your culture, the people and like and like, let
me really clear, like, I don't, I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:01:53):
I'm not happy that these people went through this. I'm
not like this is hard.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
I don't. I don't believe that at all. I don't
believe you're saying that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
But like, like, but like, girl, if you're in danger,
I have.

Speaker 4 (01:02:03):
To see you being with your phone all the way out,
being like.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
Hey, evacuating down.

Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
I'm like literally someone was like, hey the house, the
house might burn down. I'm gonna go pack.

Speaker 4 (01:02:13):
Now come with me as a pack girl. Put the
phone down, I pack, snatch your dog, snatch your bags,
snash your shit and leave. Take a quick pick or
a video as you can post it later. But because
you've got time to stand there captured m post girl,
we have a problem. So that's my first one second,
one thirty percent. The fire fire force is made up

(01:02:36):
of incarcerated people, a population that over fifty percent of
the state decided was fine with their forced labor. Now,
incarcerated folks do get paid for the slabor, but often
without the proper training to fight.

Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
Fires, which endangers them immensely.

Speaker 4 (01:02:51):
And then they are not giving a pathway to pursue
these jobs after release because that because pelonies, which like
why I'm it then to do a full skill set
that they'll never use. America get together, like what what
is this? And the next time I'll be talking about
people are in cars were Remember they help fight fight
fires and help with disasters like this.

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
Like just every time, every time.

Speaker 4 (01:03:14):
And the people that you have that y'all happy, y'all
voted to say you can stay in prison and do
for flabor. Are the ones that are truly like helping
save your home. It's just it just it just makes
me like really frustrated.

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
Yep. That said, now that now what's happening.

Speaker 4 (01:03:32):
We're seeing that many people are becoming an house pickens
to fires right, people who may have to pay a
pocket for housing costs that they may not have the
insurance do not cover that they may take. I mean,
you trust me, insurance gonna take months with themile calls
are by, I get it's gonna take months, baby even
them for them to reimburse people for things or to

(01:03:54):
help them get their homes back.

Speaker 3 (01:03:56):
Amen.

Speaker 4 (01:03:57):
And this is the point that many housing rights actively
have been making for years. Anyone can be can become
unhoused in a matter of minutes, and that and that
never means that they don't deserve access to resources, opportunities
to get housed and be supported. So all the anti
unhoused people to understand that this can literally be your

(01:04:17):
best team have to buy this who needs help and
not just in person on the street, and that person
that the street can easy be your friend and they'll
get the proper resources that they need. So as you
are thinking about how to help people, remember and recognize
that this is how people actually can.

Speaker 3 (01:04:30):
Most many people become in.

Speaker 4 (01:04:31):
House because of disasters like this or things that this,
or your financial crises that affect them and then lead
them to be in house and so have less judgment,
have more empathy, strive to help people more, and like
like and just like like like understand that what's happening
here right are often like they have been, the revelations

(01:04:53):
of inequities that we have in the state and this
country and in the cities.

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
Like we need talk to better together. I know I'm
hams related to that. Just who have time? It's a bent?

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
Can I say this real quick and then we and
then we'll go ahead and we'll we'll close that out
for this week. There's also part of me, you know.
So I've been seeing people online who have been quick
to like critique Karen Bass and critique our our governor
Gray New like all of you, Like, we see so
many people who have all of these critiques, and I
just want to say this, like a lot of y'all

(01:05:27):
can't even keep your lives together. Can you imagine having
to figure out an emergency at at at the scale
of what they're having to figure out. It is not
to say that they are without like like like I
get it, Like I'm gonna again, you're you're talking to
somebody who understands that two troops can exist at the
same time.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
Should we critique politicians.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
Yes, Should we be on their heads about the decisions
that they're making and how they're having long term effects?

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
Hell yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
Like the fact that people are critiquing Karen Bass for
what she did with that money that she did, Yes, okay, Like,
let's critique.

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
Her budget cuts, but this is not the time.

Speaker 4 (01:06:08):
Well it's like budget cuts, but those budget cuts are
not the reason why like this actually have the reason why.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
She's the fire we're dealing with right, like they're dealing
with climate Like.

Speaker 3 (01:06:19):
Do you still negotiation budget cuts?

Speaker 4 (01:06:22):
Like like the like the like the money that they're
using to fight the fires is last year's money, girls,
like right, you need like.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
And I'll just say this, niggas don't read Like a
lot of people love to jump online and love to
have a critique on stuff. And I say niggas not
just niggas meaning black people collectively, niggas like Americans don't
read like because that.

Speaker 4 (01:06:50):
Video of her at the airport, so trying from out
the airport, Yes, ms girl, she was like, she looks shook,
but like people people are like, why did she responding
she is the mayor of one of the biggest cities
in the country. Do you not do you not think
the Miya train she has reminds her to not say
a single word.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
There emrising fires happening and thousands of people who don't
know what they're going to do for food, for housing,
for like like like you're also having and that's the
other thing, like a lot of people don't take into consideration.
You're also having to deal with the folks who are
already unhoused in Alta Dina are now put in a

(01:07:31):
worse situation. Like there's so many levels to this stuff.
And so that's the thing I'm saying. And you're sitting
here like, Karen, what are you doing right? Aaron was
playing Karen did not know if I was gonna happened
when she was in Ghana.

Speaker 3 (01:07:42):
Do I think?

Speaker 4 (01:07:44):
No? Do I like to I don't like Karen like that,
but I even know the lady. You need to know
who to actually blame here and like, and.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
You need to understand that a lot of the terrible
stuff that you are seeing is being done by a
lot of the people who are not catching the heat.

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
That's the stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
That's what I want folks to really take away from
this conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
Y'all have a lot of huge change. Y'all did not
cause change.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
Ky had nothing to do with climate change, right. Does
she feed into some of it? Yes, But there are
a lot of people. The same energy that y'all are
given to Care needs to be the same energy that
y'all are given to Elon. The same energy y'all need
to be given to old boy who owns Amazon, the
same energy you need to be given to to And again,
I love Apple, but I can also critique them too,

(01:08:27):
the same stuff you need to be given to Tim Cook,
all of them, they all need the same energy. And
a lot of y'all love to give energy to minoritize
people in positions of power versus actually given the people
who truly need the energy that they deserve. Around climate injustice,
I will also say too that I definitely I don't
want I don't want to be that girl. But I

(01:08:47):
would also say that I think that this is an
imperative time for us to start reading and doing more
research around eco terrorism, because, yes, for six fires to
happen within the vicinities of each other after what we
just saw a couple of weeks ago, I'm not saying it,
but I'm also saying it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
It's given fishy.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
It's given real fishy that these last couple of weeks
we've been seeing stuff pop off and then we turn
around and see six fires and okay, girl, so again,
I just I want us. I want us to be
more I think that's my point is I want us
going into twenty twenty five to be more informed on

(01:09:30):
the stuff that we're talking about. If you're going to
jump on a platform and start talking about what people
are doing and what they're not.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
Doing, I need you to be more informed about it.
I need you to have read something on it. I
need you to be that girl who has studied it
just a little bit, just because that's me.

Speaker 1 (01:09:46):
I'm gonna tell you right now, I don't know enough
about a lot of stuff, and I'll tell you I
don't know nothing about that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):
But what I will tell you is that I read
an article. What I will tell you is that I've
text Joho and said, hey girl, what is this? What
is happening here? What is going on?

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
Before I actually make a statement on the mic, or
I will say I'm gonna give my thoughts on this,
but I haven't done enough research on it, so I'm
gonna shut the fuck up. That's what I want a
lot of us doing in twenty twenty five. If you
don't know enough, if you ain't done the research.

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
Shut up. That's okay. It's okay to just shut up.
That's all we have for you.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
With that being said, leave us your thoughts, your feedback
in your email blackfatfimpod at gmail dot com. We welcome
you to jumping our dms and into our message box.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
We love you.

Speaker 1 (01:10:36):
Sometimes we'll read it, sometimes we won't. You can also
send us your thoughts via social media by interacting with
our posts on Instagram, Instagram and on the Skies of
Blue by using the handle BLACKFATFELMPOD.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
A reminder we.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
Are no longer on X that place can keep elon
and all of the other people that are on there
as well, Queen Jojo the else where they can find.

Speaker 4 (01:11:00):
You happy twenty twenty five, guys, we have given y'all.
We have given y'all who some ship out the gate
for this year. You can find me at Jojo Daniels.

Speaker 3 (01:11:10):
Across all socials on my website Jordan Dane's dot com.

Speaker 4 (01:11:13):
F not there, you will find me sat and seated
for the new season of The Traders because already giving.

Speaker 3 (01:11:20):
Girl, already these three episodes a down, not a single crumb.

Speaker 4 (01:11:28):
Island Lyvia Allen, Allen Ellen coming called called you, You're done,
You're finished.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
The mean mind snatched them Emmys is mine sis. I
know that's right, from one queen, from one queen to another.

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
My God.

Speaker 1 (01:11:47):
As for me, you can also find me watching this
season of The Traders, but you can also find me
watching the show Missing you fantastic.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
It is good, get into it.

Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
But other than that, I've just been telling people head
over to my website buy my book ww do doctor
John Paul dot com. You can pre order the book
up through March twenty fifth, where it'll be everywhere. In
the next couple of weeks, I'm going to record the audiobook,
so that's really cool. There's a lot of really cool
stuff that I'm hoping that after we get through this

(01:12:19):
really tough time, that we'll be able to entertain and engage.

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
So yeah, come on down, come on down.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
With that being said, we want to say thank you
to our wonderful producer, Bei Wang for all of the
help that they give us to make sure that the
show goes. They handle all the logistics and everything connected
to the show. We also want to say thank you
to everyone over at iHeart for keeping the show up
and running because without them, truly honestly, we would not
have the platform that we have, and so we're really
grateful to iHeart for again. We're getting ready to go

(01:12:46):
on year three and it's just been it's a blessing
every day. We don't take it for granted that we
have this platform. We also want to shout out our
wonderful editor, Chris Rogers because without him, there would be
no show or visuals, so we want to shout them out. Also,
you can follow them on social media as well. Chris
Rogers is easy to find everywhere. I think it's c
X Rogers on all of their socials and also bring

(01:13:09):
them on to do stuff. They do an amazing job.
If you're looking for someone you want to consult with
him and Chris. Feel free to cut this out if
you want, but anyway, I'm just trying to make sure
that they get their coins.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
Okay that.

Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
Let me reset this. This has been another show. Stay black, femine, fabulous,
and remember what joho.

Speaker 3 (01:13:28):
We may not be your cup of tea, but girl
drinking someone you won't need.

Speaker 2 (01:13:32):
Anyway, problem you need it anyway. I know that's right.
I love us for real. I'll see y'all next week.

Speaker 3 (01:13:37):
Bye,

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