It's Okay to be Gay! 🏳️‍🌈

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Black Fat Fem Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
and Doctor John Paul LLC.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the Black met
FM podcast, for all the intersections of identity are celebrated.
I am one of your hosts, John also known as
doctor John Paul.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
And while the government.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Is still shut down here in America, you know what's open,
salt and straw. Yes, so let's let's let's talk about.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Baby because let me tell you something.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
There's ice cream, and so I also want to make
sure that I make it very clear that I will
always be a Bluebel girl through and through. Yes, I
I know what. Yes, Bluebell is a very southern ice cream.
We've had this conversation. I think it was in like
episode one or one fifty nine we talked about Bluebell
ice cream. I will say I will still there. But

(00:54):
salt and straw. If you have never popped out and
gone to a salt and st all, you are not
living your life. I want to make sure it makes
this also very clear. This is not an ad. We
are not sponsored by them. They could sponsor us though
as well. I'm gonna talk about Yes, please come on
in here be spot sponsor us sponsor support.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Support me, bitch.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
But I don't know if you heard did you hear
that dem and Taco Bell have linked up and they
now have what they call basically I.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
Saw they are red. They've re dreamed the choco chocolate.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
Is it the chocolate?

Speaker 2 (01:38):
I think it's if it's not right, somebody from one
of them.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
The chocolate.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
But it is a a It is a re dreamed
envision of salt and straw and taco. But and they
got these cute little flavors. I don't know the flavors
off the top of my head. I probably should have
done more research coming into this episode, but I know
they have one that's like a strawberry, how opinion situation?
And then they have another one that's like a berry
or another that you can put in it. But either way,

(02:06):
God blessed salt and straw. God bless if I will
say this because a lot of people look at the
flavors of salt and straw and go, oh my god,
that I can never do. Like they have an olive
oil one I know.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
That they have. That's just the best it is.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
All of their flavors are bombed. But the one that
I've been thinking a lot about They have a malt
one that's like spot on, but there's another blue cheese,
the blue cheese and blueberry or whatever it is.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
That one. It doesn't sound good until you eat it
and it is so bombed. I will say.

Speaker 4 (02:34):
Sometimes sometimes they do go too far, like when they
do they they did. They did like chicken and biscuits,
and I was like.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
I hated that one.

Speaker 4 (02:41):
I say, we could we could just.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
Like sometimes yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
No, yes, yeah, it's very much giving you see the
flavor and you just I'm gonna go ahead.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
But I definitely they when they get it right, they
get it right.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
I will say that about Sanstras.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
I just wanted to to bring that to everyone's awareness
as we're talking about joy, finding your joy, you know,
just being happy. Salton straws what's bringing me happy. So
if anybody wants to send me a Salt and straw
gift card, if somebody wants to send me a Taco
Bell gift card, send us. You know, me and Joha
about to be traveling in the next couple of weeks together.

Speaker 4 (03:23):
Yeah, well, yes.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
We are going to New York together.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
For those of you who do know, for those of
you follow the show, we are nominated for award, yes.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Bitch, So we're gonna be in Harlem. Hopefully we win.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
If we don't win, at least it's a trip that
I got to say, I got to take with my bff.
So I'm really excited about that. But anyway, all of
that to be said, how is my award winning friend?
How are you doing today? Ugh?

Speaker 4 (03:49):
Oh my god, lovelies.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
Hello is sha Bessie jourin ak jo hoo and thought
she is an award winning.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Inserted applause in applause, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (04:01):
I just I forgot that I won another award.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
So I picked up yes, say, I picked up the
black for it, and I was like, she got I
was like, she got two awards this.

Speaker 4 (04:09):
Year and maybe more. I'm okay.

Speaker 3 (04:12):
It's like I'm working through and I like you and
have had this feeling, like the feeling of deserving it,
I guess in some ways. And she also being like like,
it's like it's like it's like so much has happened
this year that I like, I just didn't think about
it and so like because I had I said my
speech when my big my list, which was it's called

(04:35):
the equality War, but the North County as at Center
in San Diego. I like grew up in the center
like as like as a queer person. I mean, they
like saved my life. I saw them go from my
staff of one point five people to a full time
top of twenty eight people, to go from a too office,
a two room office and a strip mall to like

(04:55):
a full ten office campus like they have they have
ground so so much, And so it was a callit
you award ans in my speech, like when if it
was first told that I was receiving the award, I
didn't think I was worthy, not because I don't believe it,
but because we're taught as for people that were not
deserving of good things, right, and so having to work
through that and knowing that, right, if I'm telling people

(05:16):
that we're all inherently deserving of good things, I have
to believe with myself to you also, like it's been
such a busy time, that's like it's like you know,
actually like there hasn't been an actual moment to like
stop and I smell the roses, a moment to stop
and be like, oh, I got this award and.

Speaker 4 (05:31):
It's really meaningful to me.

Speaker 3 (05:33):
So I'm trying to like tell myself, driuldn't buy like
a basque in this a basque in like revel and
the joy of being seen by your community, and like,
don't do that for granted, Like I don't need to,
you know, I want to think about what's the next award.

Speaker 4 (05:51):
I want to. I want to.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
I want to sit and enjoy that I got this
because it place means so much to me. My mom
and we're there my one of my best friends, his
name is also Jordan.

Speaker 4 (06:04):
He also gotten award too for being like my life,
don't do that. I hate you, I hate you, I
hate you and every other bits of the games.

Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yeah, the way the host the host he walks off
and the house was like, just so you all know,
Jordan's is six.

Speaker 4 (06:25):
I have him right there, and I was like, everyone's talking,
everyone's like has all the time when I'm at the stage.
She said nothing.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
I said, oh, yeah, well but but you already know
what that is.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
Let's let's let's let's call it thing.

Speaker 3 (06:39):
I was like, well, we already know what that is
because like, so he's married with my best friends Chelsea,
and like they're amazing. I love them to my best friends.
I love them so much I've grown so much with them,
and so me I had. I had this joke with
her that something happens to her, I get him and
what happens to her. All these games are all up
on him and I and I'm.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Like, oh my bitch, yeah, uh huh uh huh.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
And before, before, before he was who he was today,
I did not go I invested in this. I did
not I made this man who he is, right right,
I'm first in line.

Speaker 4 (07:16):
Do not respect the order, bitch, I ah.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
No, that's damn right.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
Well, I am forever and I again, I know I
say this all the time. You you winning means I win.
And I anytime you're glowing means I'm glowing. And so
I'm just so grateful to see my friend being celebrated
the way that they should and the way that they deserve.

(07:43):
You do a lot of and I think that's the
thing people don't know. I think people think all we
do is turn on a microphone each week. But I'm like,
we are literally in the grounds doing a lot of.

Speaker 4 (07:52):
Stuff, full things and.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
For a lot of people, Like we're doing a lot
of things, Like I mean, you're doing a lot for
your queer community. You're doing a lot for the Jewish community,
You're doing a lot for the Black Jewish queer community.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
I'm doing stuff for the queer babies. I'm like, so we're.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
We're all like if it's not on the show, like
we're literally not quote unquote in it. And I think
people think this is just what we do, and there's
so much more. And so when I when I see
you being celebrated outside of like, yes, the nominations and
we're gonna talk about that in a second. The nominations
and all of the opportunities we get from the show
is great, but I also think it's so beautiful to say, like, Wow,

(08:30):
my friend is actually being celebrated for the amazing work
they do in their community. And so I love that
for you. Speaking of which it bears repeating, and I'm
gonna keep saying, I'm gonna say at the top of
this episode. I'm gonna say at the end of the episode,
because I know that some people you know, I don't know,
you may you may forget, I don't know. But anyway,
all that to you said, it bears repeating that. On
top of us flying out in a couple of weeks

(08:50):
to the full figure Awards. We are nominated for two
Signal Awards, and so we are nominated both of the
DEI and the LGBTQ category. You can go to the
website if you just search Black Fat Fame, both of
them will come up. It's a quick vote. All you
have to do is sign in. I think for me,
it's it's really exciting because again I told myself before

(09:14):
the show even happened, and before you even came on
as a host. In my mind, I said, one day
I'm gonna win a Shorty Award, one day I'm gonna
win a Signal Award. And it's just it's mind boggling
to think that we are nominated for two of them
this year. And so I wanted to ask you, like,
what would it mean for us to win this award?
Like before we get into the show, like thinking about

(09:34):
the fact that now not only are you an award
winner in your community, we've won an award for the
show already. Like now if we win the Full Figure
and we win the Signal Award, Like, what would that
mean for you?

Speaker 4 (09:45):
Well, I mean the really great question.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
I mean there's like there are two very diven things, right,
the Full Figured Award that it's focused on, like you know,
like like like plus size thought positive industry folks. And
so we're nominated for like best pod cast I believe,
best podcast category for this award that is like best fashion,
best creator, like it's all these other things too within

(10:09):
the context of being plus sized, And so I think
that would be like amazing to get to be seen
like as someone who's leading something really important, as people
who thinks really important in this work, who leads with
our like best, biggest and biggest put intended. So yeah,

(10:31):
so I think I mean a lot in that, but
also like just being nominated to me is also abtruly
is like amazing to me too, Like like they could
pick so many other people shows X y Z and
they chose us, and that's really special.

Speaker 4 (10:45):
The signal words, right, they're they focused particularly.

Speaker 3 (10:48):
On media, I believe, and so you know, and the
landscape where we know that our voices they focus pically
on podcasts, so like right, so they on podcasts. So
in a in a landscape where there's truly hundreds of
thousands of podcasts are including AI ones. Well, I want

(11:08):
make a point that they're AI podcasts that are taking
work away from editors, from producers, from actual podcasts, hosts, right,
like they are trying to take this work away from
us and from other creators. And that's really like the
one hundreds thousand pocast too from ours included.

Speaker 4 (11:23):
Right, even others and even others are on our network.
To be chosen is a huge honor.

Speaker 3 (11:29):
And also that it's the it's the listener's choice, which
means that the listeners are the wens.

Speaker 4 (11:34):
That have like thought of us.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
Yeah, like, oh I want this show to be to
be thought of and celebrate that is like that's really
really incredible. So what I feel like extra grateful and
to win it right, would also demonstrate for us because
John and I often feel like not that our show
just to get the thoughts it deserves. In some ways
it does anything but but but but more like we

(11:58):
aren't reaching the people.

Speaker 4 (11:59):
We know we can reach. Take that that, like, like
we deserve to reason to be heard, risider feel seen
or heard in this in this show.

Speaker 3 (12:06):
Yeah, and so I think this would be a great
way to say like people like people actually do see us.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah yeah, so yeah yeah, yeah, and I don't take
lightly you know, I I you can see when people
vote you can see what percentage things are, right, I
don't take lightly that, you know, for the last couple
of weeks that I mean, it's been open for a week.
You know, we're we're up there, right, Our numbers are
up there. So I don't take that lightly. For friends,
for listeners, for people who have our listeners who've become

(12:33):
my friends. The fact that you go in and that
you vote, it means a lot to me to know
that you see it for us, you know. And I
was gonna say, like to your point, Joho, you know,
for me, like it would tell me that the folks
really see it for our content and the work that
we put out, because what people don't understand is that
this ship is hard, and some of y'all have come
to this show after kind of we've hit a couple of,

(12:55):
you know, different hurdles. We had people who were coming
in at the beginning of the show, We're going in
and intentionally and leaving back comments so it could push
and suppress our show down. We had to work with
Apple and we had to work with Spotify to get
some of those comments removed. We've had people say really
terrible things to us online, so like it's not just
and then and then it's just the full scope of

(13:16):
us doing the show right, Like we're doing the show
virtually and sometimes in person, and it's scheduling and it's
you know, editor stuff, and it's downloading, and it's your
might goes out, Like there's all of these things that
I don't think people can put it. And then also
the idea of like it's and then this is the
other thing I want to say for listeners too, like
who listen to the show regularly. You know, I recognize

(13:38):
there are a lot of funny, cheeky haha shows out
there where two queer people get on the mic and
they just you know, they just clean out and it's
no no shade to them, no shade to them for
what they're doing. But I also think what people don't
seem to get about this show is that there's a
lot of intentionality that comes that comes with this show.
Me and Jojo have to think about guest we have

(13:59):
to think about show topics that feel time but also
are going to speak to bigger issues like this shit
is work and I don't you know, I'm not coming
on here to say, oh, we deserve more, but I
think you know, every week we bring something to all
of you that we want to make sure feels like
if we want content that we can look at at

(14:21):
the end of the day and go, that's some damn
good content. Even if only two people listen to that episode,
that's that's some damn good content. So yeah, I just
I appreciate, you know, when friends reach out to me
and say, oh, that episode stuck with me, or that
episode spoke to me, or that episode really helped me
put some stuff into perspective. And I get some of
those message often. Yeah, and I want to say thank

(14:45):
you to everyone who sees it for our show. And
so I could go on for hours about that, but
I just wanted it to kind of just take a
moment to kind of, you know, stop. We've been at
this for almost five years, and it means a lot.
It means like, as we're getting ready to go into
our fifth year of the show, twenty twenty six will
be year five for us. I really want folks to
understand that if you have not told someone about the show,

(15:08):
please do. But for the folks who have rocked with
us from day one, the friends who knew what me
and Jojo went through to get to iHeart to get
this show sold, to keep this show on the air,
to have you know we've been through and again, I
also want to make sure we shout out our new producer.
We've gone through three or four different iterations of producers.

(15:28):
We have a new producer now who I think is
absolutely fabulous and fantastic, fantastic Joey. I know you're listening,
and I definitely just want to say thank you, and
we appreciate how how easy you've made it for us
to transition into this new you know, this new vision
of black fat fem But I just kind of want
listeners to know, like, we see y'all and we love

(15:49):
y'all and we appreciate y'all as much as y'all appreciate us.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
So, yeah, that's not the show.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
Well, so I just want to say before we before
we get into the studio here, because you named ward winners,
but you name it, you are award show.

Speaker 4 (16:02):
Host as well too.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
Hey, like you're gonna you're you're about to host the
tenth annual Shorty Impact Awards, which is also a feat
in itself, Like, like that is amazing because not only
we were award winner, and then you're asked to be
a host of an award show, which is like iconic
as fun. So I hope that you give yourself the
flowers for that as well too, and recognize that that
is also a.

Speaker 4 (16:24):
Huge accolade Ald, Like, really, is this stupid?

Speaker 1 (16:28):
I hate you for that, but yes that is. I
am screaming. I love you so much. You're literally my
true b ff, through and through you.

Speaker 4 (16:41):
Fucking girl, miss I'm misscite.

Speaker 3 (16:42):
New York is not ready for us, girl, You're literally anyways,
let's see out the show that we do every week,
but there are still hair segment, but honoring our girl,
Missusha Campbell and living for the moments that we refuse
to let go of. So this week to celebrate the
start of lb Q plus History Month, which is the
scream month about Tobe, we love to see it. Or
to ask you a question, what is a LGBQ plus

(17:04):
history moment? The feel we don't talk about enough now?
Minsky yours is good minus cheeky in honor of in
honor of the last show girl that just was dropped today,
actually honor I mean that in the most satirical way,
and I get that I may receive death threats after.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
This and I will not get people are going off
on me on threads at the current time because I
have said nothing but terrible things about that lady.

Speaker 3 (17:35):
We don't discuss enough the you need to Calm Down video,
which was a song by Miss Swizzy or Miss Swift
if Nasty that they call a gay anthem, where the
song allegedly addresses and controls and homophobia, homophobia and voice

(17:55):
just support for the queer community. It was produced produced
with to call features a lot of cameos.

Speaker 4 (18:05):
I don't think it was really like I think it
would lay that like changing like I was just like.

Speaker 3 (18:15):
Like, for example, I get that she tried to I
believe like following the song she pushed people to doing
it to glad and then also to sign the change
out or petition for the United States as Santa pass.

Speaker 4 (18:36):
The Equality Act, which I believe has not been passed yet.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
Still still, let's discuss, let's talk about that.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
Let's wait, let's wait that one up first.

Speaker 3 (18:46):
I I just I just people listen, people live for
her and then what she does and I love that
for her.

Speaker 4 (18:57):
Yeah, and I think it's great. Did she did she
have some amazing cameos? Yes? Did I enjoy the cameos. Yes,
did I think?

Speaker 3 (19:13):
Do?

Speaker 4 (19:13):
I think it was like a piece of art remains
to be seen. She's she's who I would say. She
gives us allyship.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, and that's fine, that's funny.

Speaker 4 (19:37):
She's not our accomplice, but she's an ally a girl.

Speaker 3 (19:41):
But we don't discussed enough because she thought she ate
jown with it, like I'm sure, I'm sure, she says,
and she's like, I gave the case what they were
asking for, and I'm like, like, I did it.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
She gives a specific demographic of gays.

Speaker 4 (19:59):
But why I said, I think she said. I believe
she believed.

Speaker 3 (20:06):
And I have met very few gays who well, she
made a gay anthem, should not make a queer anthem.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
That's what I'll say. And that's that on that and
and that's the taste, and that's the tea, babes, that's
the tape, you know so, and this is this is
the thing, you know so. I I've said this in
so many different facets and factions, and I think it
is also impairedive for us to understand and note like
I we don't expect celet like I don't, I don't

(20:39):
see politician and and and celebrity as as synonymous. Like
I don't need my celebrities to be politicians, and I
don't love the idea of a lot of politicians being celebrities. However,
if you are going to use your celebrity for political movement,
make sure.

Speaker 4 (20:56):
That you do your research.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
And I think that's the thing, like or talk to
other people who are doing it.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
Well, you know, like I just like, some people give
us a song and some give us an album. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
they're not the same. Yeah, you know, they really are
the same.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
Really, some people give us a song that's for the
white gays. Some give us an entire album based off
of a queer black house music renaissance.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah, you know, and it's you know, I also want
to make sure that I because I mean, people would
could probably come back to this conversation and say, you're
critiquing you're so hard on Taylor Swift and you don't
ever say anything about Beyonce.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
Do I think Beyonce is a great icon?

Speaker 2 (21:35):
No? But what I will say is this, Glad gave
her an award for her work, and so she came
out with an entire album that was very well researched
that was very well rooted in. She said, the queer
people who who encouraged me or helped me become who
I am. I'm going to do an album to celebrate them,

(21:57):
like she.

Speaker 4 (21:57):
Gave us literature. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
Like well, and also just to that point, like, I'm
not going to see critique black women all day.

Speaker 4 (22:06):
That's not my journey. I'll have a critique white folks.
I'll have a crique white folks any day because of
the day. They exist in different power system that by
that so and the.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
World is not the same.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
The world that Beyonce lives in is not the world
that Taylor Swift lives in. I just want to make
that very clear and right there with you.

Speaker 3 (22:25):
Yeah, it's just I mean, and I am striving to
not I don't want to. I don't want to pit
them against each other for blah blah blah. But like,
but it's two bodies of work that are just very
different in scope and scale, And to me, I'm like
like and like intention like it's it's it's the fact
that I'm like, she thinks she ate with.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
This, and it's very surface.

Speaker 4 (22:48):
It was very surface, very surface. Like Yeah, anyways, I'm
sure someone will type me for it.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
And if they do, and if they do, go fight
a Republican. They there's another us out there for us
to argue with, So go do that, Sis. But what
I will say is I think you are very very
very very like spot on with with that critique in
a lot of ways. So yeah, So for me in
terms of my still here, I think a lot about

(23:19):
I want to say, friends of the show, they have
not been on the show, but be Scott has been
very supportive of me and my career in a lot
of different ways in the last few years. For those
of you who do who met be Scott in two
thousand and eight, like I did, they were, in my opinion,
one of the first non binary people I had ever
come across. They were asked to do a spot or

(23:40):
do some hosting for Beet and I don't know if
you all were following that, but basically there was a
whole situation around what be Scott was wearing, them not
wanting be Scott on the red.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
Carpet, blah blah blah blah blah.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
All of these things kind of happened, and the long
of the short of it was that they were asked
basically not to go out and do any type of
work for BET at that time, and later down.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
The line they ended up being able.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
They filed a lawsuit, there was this whole thing around it,
and then eventually I think I'm pretty sure Bet settled
with B Scott and even gave be Scott's an opportunity,
you know, to do more work when there were some
shows around me for Leno Waife that came out. But
what I will say is like what I loved about
that moment for me was B Scott was not blacking

(24:28):
down from this idea of I'm going to be my
authentic self at all times. And I've seen it happen,
and it's not even saying it happens now, because we
see a lot of people that are kind of like
rolling back their queerness in a lot of ways to
keep work, to make sure they get booked, to make
sure that they're not quote unquote ruffling feathers. In that moment,
be Scott said, I don't care if you're black, white, green, yellow,
or beige. I am a black queer person and this

(24:50):
is how I show up and you're going to deal.
And so you know, B I've been saying for months.
I would love I don't know what your schedule is giving,
but I would love to have you on the show
if you're listening. But all that to be said, I
just I've always loved be Scott for literally and doing
it in a very very how do I say this,
Doing it in a very like I don't clean is

(25:13):
not the word, doing it in a very and I
don't want to say professional, because I think professionals gross,
but doing it in a way where it didn't feel gross, right, like,
doing it in a way where it was you know,
because they could have dragged BET, they could have used
their platform, they could have gone online, they could have
said all these terrible things about BT, and they basically said, Nope,

(25:33):
there was just this moment of discrimination that happened, and
I'm gonna handle it the way it needs to be handled.
And it was just done in such a like very
Mariah Carey of it all. It was just very very well.
And I've just I've always looked at Scott as just
being so legal and just literally the antithesis of what

(25:54):
I think Black Caar excellence is from the way they
handled themselves, how they handled situations, how they were like
I've never heard anyone say anything terrible about who they
are and what they do, So I just I stand
Be Scott, and I definitely think that's a lgbtqu history
moment for me that will always like live at the
forefront of my mind. And if you, like I said,
if you don't know who Be Scott is, a lot

(26:14):
of your queer influencers and people that you love. They've studied,
they come from the school of Be Scott, they come
from the YouTube pages of Be Scott, and yeah, I
just definitely love everything about them and what they stand for.

Speaker 4 (26:27):
So I love to hear it. All right, Well, first
of all, Be Scott for listening. I hope you are.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
I hope that you reach out to us to be
on the show because we would love to have you
be a gift and listeners. Now that we've given a
reason to do some more googles or beings or y'all
who chrudges a foots about Girl History Month, we're inting
a quick break and come back with with this week's
category is in justice Siety.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
All right, y'all, So this week, you know, we we
have celebrated LGBTU History Month and so many different facets
in the last like I said, we're getting ready to
go into year five of the show. We've had multiple
episodes where we've talked about coming out, talked about lgbtqu history,
we talked about all these different things. But I felt
like one thing that we have kind of not really
touched around, or we've really we've talked about, as you

(27:20):
all know, coming out Day is this Saturday. And so
by the time you all hear this episode, you know,
many of you have probably thought about, you know, your
own history, thought about the history of folks that you
love and that you look you look up to, And
so I wanted to kind of do something that kind
of flips this conversation on its head instead of us
talking about our coming out experiences. I don't know what
episode it is. I know we've talked about it in

(27:42):
the past. You can go listen to that episode. It's
probably somewhere in the thirties of the forties. We wanted
to center this week's conversation on this idea of what
our lives look like now that we have come out.
And so this week, you know, I know, people talk about,
oh it gets better, and you know, oh coming out
and I've been become the person you know. I even
did a segment this year, you know, about who I

(28:03):
meant to be around my queerness. But I really wanted
to ask the question, how has your life changed since
coming out? And so me and Joe Hoo are going
to just take a moment to kind of quiz each
other and ask questions and just kind of, you know,
go go down a walk of memory lane and not
necessarily talk about our coming out experience, but really just
talk about this idea. How has your sense of self

(28:25):
and your identity change since you decided to let the
world in on who you truly are? And so I
would love to know, like what what's different for you,
my love?

Speaker 1 (28:35):
Like what what you know?

Speaker 4 (28:37):
Even?

Speaker 2 (28:37):
Maybe what what's different now that you have I mean,
we have a platform people know us as a queer show,
and you're doing lgbtqu work in so many different facets,
So like what what does life look like for Jordan?

Speaker 4 (28:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (28:51):
I think so one.

Speaker 4 (28:54):
What changes just for shoving my line of work?

Speaker 3 (28:56):
Like when before I came out, it was and I
came out as a really young age, but like I
was ever thinking I would be doing this have a
work like my my vision myself was like I was
gonna be a chef. I be a chef or an actor.
It I see it, thank you, thank you, you know,
and like maybe maybe some day I still will be.
But I never envisioned the turn, the turn that would

(29:17):
take to be focusing on quer communities like this.

Speaker 4 (29:20):
I think my sense of self elevated.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
Since has it always elevates. I think I've always I
always had a strong sense of self in many ways,
strong sense of like personality. But I'm at a point where,
like I used to be so concerned with fitting the
right image for something, and I think now, especially the

(29:51):
past few years, I'm just not concerned with that. I'm
not concerned with fitting the image of X y Z.
I'm concerned with fitting my image that what I enviition myself.
I concerned sometimes with fitting like the image of that
my friends may have of me, because because they love
and I love them. But I'm not concernedly fitting the
image of what like the world thinks I should be.

Speaker 4 (30:14):
Like I think, like.

Speaker 3 (30:19):
It's silly in some ways, but also not like in
some cases, me having my nails done and like having
like these little claws isn't significant to me right, But
I also know that in some places it's very significant.
It's like real people have never seen that before, and

(30:39):
they're like, what the hell. And it's a moment where
I can be endangered by it, and a point where
I still choose to do so no matter where I am,
because it's like makes me feel like my best self.
So I think also what's also changed is I refuse
to shrink myself to make somebody else comfortable, and I

(31:04):
refuse and buy out. I also refuse to I also
refuse to disengage like most of them people, right, Like
when people ask about it, they actually aren't like, they
don't like, they don't hate you, They're just they don't know.
So they're scared because they don't know. And so I
think I also took the time to say, you have
a question, So let's like, let's let's talk. Let's talk

(31:26):
about a girl, right, Like, if someone's.

Speaker 4 (31:28):
Like, what white, white, white, you got the nails on?

Speaker 3 (31:32):
If I respond because because it's my business, bitch, then
then then we'll have a fight versus versus if I'm like,
why do you hate nails?

Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yeah? Listen, right, and who said there only for women?
That's the real question.

Speaker 4 (31:46):
But exactly right, like like if you invite them with
more questions versus responses, and you're here, and I think.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
Like I'm I'm you know, I'm able to I'm able
to out like I'm not, I'm able to change more.
I think also like knowing that my problem isility to
change making is different as I grew up and grow
more and more as I'm continually becoming in my queer self.
So yeah, I think those are ways in which my
daddy has changed. And also like in also recent this year, right,

(32:13):
like I shipped my pronounce to he they I and
like not because it's not Becau's not significant to this
in the sense of people say, he him, I'm not
gonna be not like I'm not man about it. But
I chose it because and I think it's also a
great reminder that queerness is always evolving and never just static.

(32:36):
I chose he they because I still very much feel
like SIS in many ways. But I also feel like SIS,
like s I S says, and I think like my
C S two no no C I s and s
I S yes, but exactly because I feel like the
way I present myself is beyond the container, right, And

(32:58):
so that's a huge shame, just like I also refuse
to be contained.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
Yeah, I love that answer is very on brand for
what I was hoping this segment would give. And I
actually love your answer because, you know, as I think
about my own sense of self and how it has changed,
you know, people, you know I used to think of
myself and again you start doing the math right When
people used to call me extra, I always used to

(33:22):
be like, oh, okay, well, people don't like me because
I'm extra. But I think now that I've done the work,
and now that I have gone through my own healing
journey with like both mental health meds and then also
having a therapist and having a great psychologist, being deemed
extra for some folks is this notion of I'm too

(33:42):
comfortable in my identity and showing up the way that
I am. And so I think that's one of the things,
you know, I've really come to love is that when
people call me extra, it's like, yeah, I am extra
because I've done the work to become this person who's
very confident in who they are. I love the word
fem Now being deemed as trans doesn't bother me, And
a lot of ways I've learned that being clear, you know,

(34:05):
being trans can look like so many different things. And
it really makes me happy to think that I've done
the work to remove this homo negative connotation of what
it means to be me or to be extra in
this world. And in so much of what you were
saying too, like challenging and pushing back that, you know,
kind of holding my own right when someone when someone

(34:26):
is thrown off by me or thrown off by my
my identity or you know, it's so powerful that I
get to stand in it, you know what I mean,
Like I'm taking up space in this nail shop as
a cisgender man whose trands are non binary, however you
want to identify me. But again, you know, and it's
not to say I'm trying to take up space from

(34:47):
women per se, But what I'm saying is doing the
things that I personally love for myself. I think that's
been a big thing for me. Dressing the way I
want to dress, wearing the clothes I want to wear,
wearing the shoes I want to where, doing my nails
like I have there's and again I talk about this
in my book. Getting my nails done was something I
dreamed of as a kid because I love the nail shop.

(35:09):
I love the community of the nail shop, you know,
whether it be Black women talking to black women or
Asian women talking to one another and creating, like I
think the nail shop. There's a lot to be said
around what happens at the nail shop. And I think,
you know, whether it be a black nail shop or
an Asian nail shop, I don't know what they doing
in white ones because I don't really go to white
nail shops. But I say all of that to say,

(35:29):
I just think, you know, there's there's so much to
be said about really liking who you are even more
than that, loving who you are in a world that's
constantly telling you that you're supposed to question every single
piece of that.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
And so that's just been that's been fun for me,
you know.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
I feel like the feeling of that for both of us,
is like just rejecting limitations. Yeah, like when I think
about like nothing that I want to make about wicked,
but like right like right like like in the Viengardling
when she says.

Speaker 4 (35:56):
I refuse uh she was she fleas Jesus. I'm through
accepting limits because someone says.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
Or so right, it's like a Brianna, that was for you. Brianna,
that was definitely for you.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Brianna is one of the listeners who loves anytime we
mentioned Wicked.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
So Brianna, we we love.

Speaker 4 (36:15):
You, said Rihanna, like as a listener, And I'm sure.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
She's going to love the fact that I thought about
her as soon as you said that. But yes, Brianna,
this is your segment facts.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
Like like we like, we're we're told to be limited,
but we actually unlimited.

Speaker 4 (36:35):
We actually are unlimited. And so I think, like right,
like it's us saying.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
And one thing I you know, it was just the
Jewish New Year and I had I had a say
to her with some friends. We talked about like what
are we, what do we what do we wish each
other in this new year? And I was like, I
wish everybody like to release limits to no longer for
limited by themselves or by what the world tells him
to do. Like we is, queer people already exist beyond

(37:02):
the bounds of what people tell us the world tells us,
So why should I accept more limits on myself?

Speaker 4 (37:09):
Yeah? Anyways, the fuck out of me.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
I needed to hear that message. I swear.

Speaker 4 (37:18):
You know. I want to ask you, my VFF.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
Yes, what relationships have changed have changed you the most
since coming out?

Speaker 4 (37:26):
Whether it's friends, family, colleagues, we have changed the most.
But also who have you changed the most? Too? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (37:35):
I think what's real for me is you know? I
so I again, I don't. I never really know who's
listening to the show or who finds the show. But
there was an individual I was telling my husband about
this a few months A few weeks ago, we were
talking about this, but I was saying, like, to be honest,
I used to be so scared of trans. I didn't
know what trans was. I didn't comprehend what trans is
meant like there was the world had made me so

(37:56):
fearful of this idea, and it was specifically I won't name.
I won't say the name of the person, but I
used to have a colleague who was trans when I
used to work and higher ed, and there were all
these preconceived notions about this person being trans, and so
I think I was. You know, as much as people
think that this whole fear trans people rhetoric is new,
it's not. It has been around for years. And I say,

(38:18):
all of that to say, I used to be so
terrified of that. Right, I was okay with let me
even say okay, I tolerated the conversation around queer, but
the idea of someone thinking me or anyone else was
trans was like almost it was one of the most
scary things for me. And now I think I've really
grown into this thing of like, I feel like part

(38:41):
the like the bright spot of being LGBTQ is trans people.

Speaker 4 (38:46):
It just is it is.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
And when I say that specifically, I mean black trans people.
You know, every black trans person that I know, whether
it be an acquaintance or it be a true friend
to me, has poured into me in ways that I
don't think the world will ever under stand or comprehend.

Speaker 4 (39:02):
You know.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
I look at, for instance, you know, Treville Anderson, the
way that they always speak to me whenever we're together.
We don't see each other talk a lot, but when
I am with them, I feel so uplifted.

Speaker 4 (39:11):
You know.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
I think about you know, King Texas, who's another one
you know, just you know Texas Isaiah, another person who
is very very you know, supportive. They will they will
bop in my my DMS and say hey girl, I
see you, you know, keep doing what you're doing. There's
so many trans people that I know that just love
me for me and it it really just makes me

(39:33):
feel like I can do anything and that I can
be anything. And so you know, I'm I will say
this my DMS and my email is open to more
transfem non binary people to surround myself with, both here
in Los Angeles and across you know, in my seat,
because I feel like my friendships are not just limited
to where I live. My friendships are bountiful throughout this world.

(39:54):
And I love, I love learning what trans this looks
like in other places. But what I also will say
too is, you know, I've learned a lot about myself
by listening and respecting the journey of other blackri And
it's not to say that black trans people are the
only people that I love and respect. I love black
bear people too, because a lot of them.

Speaker 4 (40:12):
You know.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
I think about my good friend Toy, and I think
about my good friend, you know, Tory, and I think
about you know just again, you like, there are all
of these people around me who have really uplifted me.
But I find so much love and enjoy and watching
trans people say this is who the fuck I am,
and you're gonna have again, you know, Dominique Morgan, great example.

(40:34):
Ts Madison, great example. This is who the fuck I am.
And you can call me every name in the book,
but it don't mean I got answer to it. Or
you can call me every name in the book, and
I'm gonna make a check. I'm gonna I'm gonna make
some money off of it, because that's really what you know,
they laugh at Ts Madison, and that's exactly what she did.
That bitch is laughing to the bank. You know, in
so many different ways she really is. And so you know,
I think that's just where I am. I think about

(40:57):
you know, even thinking about us, right, like the idea
that people used to laugh at me and probably you
were bullied too, I'm sure, for being a feminine. And
it's like now we can say, o, our femininity got
my book sold, Our femininity has got this show to
be a three time nominated podcast, and then it's it's
it's also an award winning podcast. Right, So like that's

(41:20):
the kind of shit I think a lot about. It
is like how do we how do we repurpose, how
do we reshift? A lot of the things we think
about and and and to your point, right, I feel
like I've become so much more confident in saying. I
can say I'm a badass bitch because I'm standing in
my standing.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
And who I am. But I'm also encouraging other people
to stand and who they are too. What about you?

Speaker 4 (41:40):
Yeah, I mean I feel the same way.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
I feel like I can say I'm a badass pitch
because I'm surrounded by bad ass bitches, Like I like,
like everyone like when uh like the episode of Insecure
with Kelly and Well and Lauren speaking is like Kelly
like he was like hi friends doing and she was

(42:01):
like everyone associate everyone. I associate with everyone I associate
with with thriving an abundance limitless. Like that's how we
feel sometimes, like right, associated with it's thriving abundance, you know,
I mean not always abundance, but like, like not always thriving.
But I think for me, like I've been changed by
my relationships. I think each of my friendships changed me.

(42:25):
I don't have many straight friends and that's by design
and them, and I'm okay with that honestly, but I've
been changed by them because I've been changed my delationships
I have because I'm very intentional with who I have
my life. I'm very intentional with who I feel like
kinship with. I'm very intentional with who I want us

(42:45):
to be surrounded by, who I want to fill uplifted by,
and who I want to uplift and surround myself.

Speaker 4 (42:50):
And so yeah, so I think I think changed the most.

Speaker 3 (42:53):
I mean I also say like, but also the relationships
that were hard also change me too, Like I think
about everyone, like my my relationship with like with my
parents changed me a lot, as challenging as it was,
and sometimes with my mom, right, it gave me the
greatest level of empathy for others and to say, like,
you know, like I understand that they're like like that

(43:14):
they're they had, they had, They've had to learn a
lot to learn about me. You know, I'm working with
some of them right now for Pride, who like they're
like they like they're they're like seventy years old, and
so their language is still transvestine, right, Like that's your language,

(43:35):
because that's the language that like that like they had.
They won't say queerly definite as LGBTQ is what they say, right,
but like I have, Like that changes me because I
ton't understand their proximitate to those language is different. Right,
I'm going to be reading the biobiography of Marshby Johnson
by By that was written by Urmaline and like, oh,
like you, the law of the language in it is

(43:56):
the is the word transvestide because that's what was used, right, right,
Star how Street Transvestites Action Revolutionaries by Marshy Johnson and
Sevi Rivera, like that was the one that was used.
And so I'm being changed by that because I'm realizing, like, oh,
like I also like have to recognize that my framework
now is so different. And then then then there's but

(44:18):
doesn't make them like any less, right, like I like
right having a good relationship with elder workers. I'm saying
that the elders framework is different than yours, but still
is a framework that can be used and worked with.

Speaker 4 (44:30):
And so we're working on how I'm.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
Working on reaching the gap between my language and theirs,
and how do we bring that language to our community
of elders and and like you in this black, queer
and trans space. And so that I think that's that's
changed me a lot. Yeah, every person changes me in
every in every possible way. I'm curious to ask you

(44:53):
what has been what are some of the biggest challenges
you faced is coming out?

Speaker 4 (44:57):
And how have you overcome them?

Speaker 2 (44:59):
So gosh, getting I mean, this episode is going to
be long. I think, you know, one of the biggest
challenges you know, I think I've had to kind of
come over or had to overcome, is really this idea
of living in a world where again kind of going
back to that point of what I made earlier, right,
this notion of like not being extra or not being

(45:20):
yourself right, like not not being effeminate, or not enjoying
or being effeminate, right, being labeled something, And so you know,
I think learning to love who you are is hard,
and I think that's also part of this answer for me, right,
like learning to love the idea that just by nature,
I'm I've always been a soft person. And I've mentioned
this in other episodes before, but also what I have

(45:43):
not talked about is this idea of being able to
find that softness attractive for myself, right, not waiting for
the world to find that softness or that femininity attractive,
and being like whoever finds it attractive, yay, And though,
who don't bang for me? And I think that's the
thing I don't. I don't think we talk enough about, right,

(46:04):
We talk about this idea of like love yourself for
who you are and blah blah blah blah blah. But
you know, it can feel like a setup that Toad.
It can be fill up like a setup that Todd schemed,
you know, or a scheme that Todd's set up right
where it's where you're feeling like, well, I like myself,
but because the world or the community or people in
the community don't want me to be this way, then

(46:27):
I then I should dim my light a little bit
so that way I can get other people to like me.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
And it's like, no, fuck that, right, if you are an.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
Extra girl, if you are effeminate, if you want to
go out in daytime drag, you want to do a beat,
you want to wear a heel every do right?

Speaker 4 (46:43):
Do that?

Speaker 2 (46:44):
And I think for me, it's like, you know, sometimes
it makes me want to fight because I think so
much of me wanting to kick myself in the ass
for how much time I waste it trying to be
something for other people who never really gave a fuck
about me. Anyway, right, who never really saw it for
me anyway, who never really cared about my wellness and
my joy and my happiness. They only saw what they

(47:06):
could see. And so it's just I think about that, like,
I guess this is just my you know, my long
way of saying, like, be who the fuck you want
to be right, and do it in a safe way.
I want to make sure that I say that, because
I know, especially now, not everything is safe for us, right,
Not every space is safe, and we're noticing and we're
seeing that.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
Even in spaces we think we're safe, we're not right.
I want to make sure I say that.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
But I'm also saying, we don't know how much longer,
or how much how long we get to be on
this earth, and this on this timeline. Godly God, please
get me off this timeline. But we don't know, we
don't know how long we get to be here in
this life. And so do what the fuck makes you happy,

(47:51):
And if you have to, it's gonna be hard as
fuck when you come out. Yes, they're gonna beople who
turn their backs on you. Yes, they're gonna be people
who talk shit about you. Yes, they're gonna be people.
But that is going to be your moment of freedom,
so to freight up like I just I think the
challenge for me was getting myself to freedom and allowing
myself to say I have the right to like every

(48:12):
single element of who I am, the fat, the black,
the ugly, the you know, you know the moments where
you know my titious move a little too much when
I go up the stairs. I'm okay with that, and
I think that's been one of my biggest challenges. But anyway,
what about yourself, my love? I feel like I'm rambling.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
No, I mean, I think what you're saying is like
really just I think anything say is important and necessary
for when when for yourself to share, but also for
the for the people to hear, because it's like it's
like it's like, yeah, like we want everyone to love
themselves and we call you that by modeling that for
for us.

Speaker 4 (48:46):
So I'm rambling at all.

Speaker 3 (48:48):
I think the biggest challenge I faced is coming out
or however came it. Oh, they know it's as you're sharing.
Part of me was also like I'm so tired of
being like reductive in the sense of like one been
big things about the desirability, but also but also like

(49:11):
but also it's such a like it. It's just such
a present thing in so many like the world, so
it's like I can't also can't avoid that, so I knew.
Like I'll say, like one thing about desirability is like
challenges I've overfaced. Fasical coming out is like having to

(49:31):
discover what's desirable too, to like a whole different group
of people right to like now the same gender or
same sex or same gender or either like or like
or not buying it from there and trying to figure
like what like what that means for myself and overcoming
it by being like if that's like I'm not gonna
be I'm not gonna be asking my girl, that's what

(49:54):
you want, then that's what you want.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
But like.

Speaker 4 (49:57):
You may you may need to you may need to
reflect in your preferences.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
Don't you get eating wheat fans? Don't you get tired
eating weekends?

Speaker 4 (50:08):
Like I'm like like, I'm like like like you're you're
just so boring, Like you're just so boring, Like I'm bored.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
I'm it's given the same five things on raising cans
me and you bit by it.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
Aren't you over it?

Speaker 4 (50:26):
For my game, let's stop.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
But you know what I know, right, Like, yes, there's
the variety.

Speaker 4 (50:36):
Exactly exactly right.

Speaker 3 (50:38):
Give me, I'm a chissing factory, girl, Give me a
whole many, give me those I want to experience. And
I think face also is like is understanding and when
you face a lot since coming out is knowing how
much I.

Speaker 4 (50:56):
Have to adopt.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
Like also, being queer is like adapting in real time
and something like sometimes a bit just tired, but like,
but your community will hold you to account girl, your
community will get you right. And so sometimes exactly sometimes
I'm like, I'm like, damn, like I really committed to
a life of like constant shifting and adjusting and having

(51:20):
to be okay with that and I understaying that like
that is just like to be part of that's going
to be part of my life and how to.

Speaker 4 (51:31):
How to be okay with getting it wrong?

Speaker 2 (51:33):
Right.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
I've I've faced the idea of I've the challenge that
has been perfectionism, and I've overcome up by saying like
it's kidding, we get wrong, because I will get wrong.
My community, if they love me, which I know they do,
will hold me accountable and teach me better and help
me see what's better here.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
Yeah, mmmmm hmm, that's real, that's real.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
I guess, you know, kind of folding out of that,
you know, one of the last questions that I have
for you as you know, this whole episode, we're celebrating,
like I said, LGBTQ History Month, and we're just talking
about our experiences about who we are and what we've
how we've kind of gotten to this place of just
being joyful and loving who we are in a world
that's honestly trying to tell us to go away. I

(52:19):
think one of the questions that I may have asked before,
and I think at this moment it's it's important for
us to revisit and if I haven't asked this question,
it's important for us to still talk about it. But
I did want to say, you know, I do realize
that it's been some years since we've talked about who
we are, where we've come from, what we've been through,
and how we've gotten to this place of having, you know,

(52:39):
a platform, winning awards, just all the things that we
do around LGBTQ missnessness, and so I think it's important
for us to have this conversation and to have a
you know, a whole episode that focuses just on the
category of being LGBTQ icons in our own way right
by no means am I am?

Speaker 4 (52:56):
I do?

Speaker 2 (52:57):
I believe you know my work is as legend and
dairy as it, you know, as it can be. And
I'm getting we're getting there, We're getting Okay, it's gonna
get's good.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
We're on a journey, honey.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
But I think it's important for some times to just
stop and in the middle of all of this and
use our platform to remind other people that, you know,
shit's hard right now and we're looking for in different ways.
We're trying to figure out how do we love ourselves
in a world that doesn't love us, And so using
our whole episode to really just kind of tell people
in this moment that they matter and that their lived

(53:29):
experiences matter, I think is so important outside of all
the other shit that we could be talking about with
our platform. So the last question I guess I have
for you is, you know, what advice would you give
to someone who is you know, and again you may
have given this advice before you can give it again,
but somebody who's thinking this weekend, you know, I'm gonna
tell my family I'm coming out, or maybe next week
after Saturday. You know, I'm gonna go do what I do.

(53:52):
But this next week I'm gonna tell my people, you
know that I want to come out. Like what what
are you hoping? What would you tell someone who is
hoping that coming out is going to change their life?

Speaker 4 (54:03):
So walk with me on this one.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
I got you.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
I'm with you.

Speaker 4 (54:10):
I want people to understand first that like like like like.

Speaker 3 (54:16):
The act itself isn't changing your life, Like coming out
isn't changing your life.

Speaker 4 (54:21):
You're changing your life.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
And so I say that the sense of like we're
giving it too much power to be like coming out
and change my life. Like right, you're changing your life
coming out as a process of that being who you
are changes your life because you're a changing your life
by being who you are. I say that in the
sense of, like, when you come out, you won't control
who reacts to it. You won't control how they react

(54:45):
to it, you won't control what happens with it. All
you control is how you react to the reaction and
what you do the information that you share with yourself.
So you are changing your life.

Speaker 4 (54:55):
And so I say that.

Speaker 3 (54:56):
The advice that have for people is you are in control.
I understand that you are in control of yourself. Like, yeah,
like you're in control of yourself. You're not control for
everybody else, right, You're in control of yourself. You get
to choose how you share it. You can just you
get to choose if someone we want to share more
and not, like, you have agency in this and so

(55:18):
take it. Take the agency share your full being with
everybody that you want to and if they and if.

Speaker 4 (55:27):
They don't like it, take the agency to say, know what,
that's fine, fuck.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
You how yeah you need to be here right right right,
right right, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (55:38):
Yourself is going to make you so happy.

Speaker 3 (55:41):
And I think, like, because I know folks who are like,
you know, being gazed and not being gaged is not great,
and men so blah or you're like, you're being queer
is not that great. And I'm like, that's because you
put so much value on the idea of coming out
like you thought you came out and like life.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
Put a lot of you put a lot on that
g honey into bet exactly why.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
But like people, I think they I think they put
so much worth the idea of saying when I come out,
things will get better. And it's like, girl, if you're
a shitty person coming out, we'll make it less shitty,
right like you have like if you like, you have
to put the work after that, right Like coming out
is coming out is just a process. Coming out isn't

(56:21):
like the actual coming out? Is it the actual like
the end point here or the end goal? Right, you
have to invest in yourself. So I would say the
also advice that have is when you come out, figure
out what you will do with the information.

Speaker 4 (56:36):
Then figure out.

Speaker 3 (56:37):
Okay, so now I'm out, Like, envision life, Imagine life,
dream life after you come out as well, don't just
dream of the moment when you come out, dream of
what happens afterwards. Make plans to build community, make plans
to invest in your friendships, make plans invest in your
familial friendships and your puton friendships and find romantic ones.

(56:58):
Like coming out to me was the best process I've
done in my life because I got to share my
full self with people, and I got to choose how
I invest myself in anything around me and how people
invest in me, and that is such a gift and privilege.
Now I love being queer because I have chosen to

(57:20):
just say what being queer means to me, right, Like,
I don't say I'm gay, I say I'm queer because
I choose to mean like radical change, radical radical sense
of self like like like like like, radical difference of
like monotony and like like and radical opposition to like

(57:44):
to like heteronormative ways.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
Right.

Speaker 4 (57:47):
So like, I chose all that for myself, And so.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
Anyone who wants to come out, don't believe that like that,
just when that changes your life, you change your life
after them and every other moment and every decision you
make after that.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
Yeah, no, you that was a bitch. That was a testimony.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
You literally said, I'm gonna get on this mic and
go to church real quick for these people who are listening. No,
I I love that you say that because I think
what people don't seem to understand is that coming out, yes,
it's a process, but you've got like like you've got
to be I wish, I wish I would have given
myself more space to so I say this. I think

(58:30):
a big piece of advice is knowing that coming out
can be harder, especially when you don't have a strong
community of people around you and I think it is
so imperative kind of to your point, Joho. You know,
I don't want to be the dead horse. I think
you've got to have a strong group of people around
you who can so. So if you lose your mom,

(58:50):
you lose your dad, You lose your brothers, your sisters,
your cousins, your uncles, your aunties. Because I I mean, yeah,
my brother, my brother said, oh I love you. I
ain't tripping, no problem. My mom should came around. But
I lost everyone else in my family and my I mean,
I have one cousin who listens to the show and
who's also very still cool with me. But that was it,
Like I lost everybody, and I struggled for so long

(59:14):
because you know, especially around the holidays, I didn't have
anybody to go. And then plus my family or Jove witnesses,
so I didn't I didn't have anybody around the holidays.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
It got bleak for me. So I had to build
my family.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
And I wish somebody would have said, girl, build your
core before you start coming out to people in your family.
So when they when they turn off their phones to you,
when they block your number, you're good, right. I would
also say, if you can work with a therapist around
not just how you plan to come out to others,

(59:46):
but how you come out to yourself.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
That was something that I had to understand, oh.

Speaker 2 (59:52):
Maybe a year ago, where it is like, bitch, I'm
forty and I'm like I had to had to learn
that a year ago, like I had to come out
to myself and my own journey. I had to say, oh, bitch,
you're trans in the sense of, no, you're not trans
because you want to be a woman. You're trans in
the sense of you want to live a non binary
trans experience.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
You're not you're not heterin. You don't you don't want
to live up to the heroin normal.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
Okay, So now you've got to do the work to
understand what the fuck that is and that that shit
is hard, right.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
You've got to understand that you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Have to have relationships with people and yourself because you're
changing and people have to be open to you changing,
and the possibility of knowing that the relationships and the
people that you love that you see as your family,
or the people that you see as your as your
people who get you, that shit may change too, because
as you're changing and as you're becoming a different person.
They're gonna look at you and say you're not the

(01:00:46):
person that I met, and I don't. They may even
say I don't like the person you're becoming. I'm growing
into a whole different person. So I just think that
that's that's the thing. I'm like, I think that's the
end of the short of it for me is that
you know, go ahead, go ahead, baby, It's just I love.

Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
I love your point about like doing the pre work
is essentially a really great point, Like do the pre
work before you come out as well, too, like like
like don't just be like I'm out, dam because right
like like again, like because your control of your life.
It's like, don't shake up your.

Speaker 4 (01:01:17):
Life in that way. I either.

Speaker 3 (01:01:21):
Like, like, do some pre work of what this decision does.
I think also, I think it's a really great point
to be prepared to lose something.

Speaker 4 (01:01:30):
You will lose something, your.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
Job, you will lose something, and you will gain so
much more. Will I believe in my with my with
my full chest. I was prepared to lose my parents.
I was prepared to lose people that are are rum
mean that I loved. At fifteen sixteen, I was prepared
to lose x y Z because I knew that I

(01:01:52):
would rather lose that knowing that I'm my full cell,
then hide myself and attempt more self harm like that,
Like that, that was the truth of it all. If
I chowed to not show myself, I know I would
harm myself more right than I already did. And so
I said, I would rather face the possibility of losing

(01:02:14):
people that I love because and because if they love me,
they will stay.

Speaker 4 (01:02:19):
If they love me, they will they they will work
it out, even if.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
It's hard, even if and that's what I said, my mom,
especially if it's hard, yes, right, yes, especially if it's hard.

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
Yeah, and and and and and and and so and
so if they leave, then their framework of love is
not a real framework of love.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
And that's what I said.

Speaker 4 (01:02:35):
And that's nothing. That's not the love that I deserve
my life, and not the love that I want to
give to others.

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
I want to give a healthy love, a steady love,
a powerful love, and affirming love.

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
And so out to your point again, I know this
episode is coming so long. If you feel like people
are loving you even after you come out, if you
feel like people are loving you with what there's a
word I want to. It starts with the ceugh, I
can't say it. Blame co no, not contempt. They're living,

(01:03:06):
They're loving you with parameters. Basically, that's conditions, conditions. Thank you,
thank you, thank you, Merriam Webster. I am a college student.
They're loving you with conditions. That's not love, baby, And
I think that's the thing we really have to get.
Even if you're loving yourself with conditions, right, I like me,
but I'm going to change who I am when I'm
around with friends so that way I can I can

(01:03:26):
feel more safe.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
Baby. That's that's that's not it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
If and again, if there are people in your life
who see you as extra or see you as well,
you suck all the energy out of the room, bitch,
get some air, get your because you deserve to be
you the way you want to be you, no matter
when or where of it. So I I just I
really think I was so intent we were going to

(01:03:50):
do something different for this episode, and this episode became
something totally different than what we initially wanted to. But
I think it is so important for us to do
an episode like this right now because I think that
there are so many people who are who who may
even be out of the closet and are figuring or
feeling like they're having to push themselves back into the
closet because of the the the because of the climate

(01:04:13):
we're in. We have friends of the show who have
trans kids that listen that are worried about their kids
being out in the world. And I'm going to talk
more about that and you know, in our next segment.
But I just definitely wanted to make sure that we
made space on this show. You know, we've had some
really fun episodes in the last couple of months, but
our last couple of weeks, but I definitely wanted to

(01:04:34):
make time to really say, like, I feel like as
much as we joke and we kiki and we ha ha,
this episode is so timely right now because a lot
of people are scared. A lot of people are scared
about what my life will be like if I continue
to live it this way and authenticity. And I want
to tell you that, you know, I think about this daily.

(01:04:54):
If someone attacks me for being queer, if someone comes
after me, comes to my home, comes in my home,
takes me and my partner out, whatever the case may be.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
And I know that's a dark thing to think about.
But it's a reality for me. In a lot of ways.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
I can say, at least those last minutes that I
lived on Earth, I left, I left an example for
someone else to be who they really wanted to be
and to feel like they could be who they wanted
to be. And I pray that never happens. But I
think that for me is where my head is every
minute of the day. Now. If if I go out

(01:05:29):
being my authentic self, then at least when I get
to those pearly gates, if that's where I'm going, and
I could be going to hell too, I'm okay with shit.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
It's a party wherever I go.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
But I'm thinking to myself, there's so many people who
are scared right now, and I just really wanted folks
to know, like we're gonna be all right, you know,
we're gonna.

Speaker 4 (01:05:47):
Be It's giving.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
I was here, yes, even though it's one of these
favorite Beyonce songs, but really it is.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
Maybe it's because I overplayed it. I think I overplayed it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
Yeah, but you know what, Yeah, I feel that like
like like I don't put it on my rotation where
it comes on.

Speaker 4 (01:06:05):
I'm like I have to listen and then.

Speaker 1 (01:06:09):
Skip it. You know, my ultimate song I absolutely cannot
stand from Beyonce is airplaceable. That song irks shot out
of me. But that's neither he nor there. But I'm
just saying, yes, it is very much giving I was here.

Speaker 4 (01:06:23):
Okay, Well, you know this is a great show. I
wish you so very much. This was so nice. I'm leaving,
but thank you for saying that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
I'm gonna always love Beyonce.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
Though beyon say we love you around these parts, I'm
never gonna get invited to anything she does.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
Yes, I'm like, hey, I wish you're here. Don't you
wish you were here? Now I wasn't here, don't you
wish you was here? I hate that for me anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
But now that we've got you ready to cut on,
I'm coming out by Dana Ross or even turn on Renaissance,
because that's probably what I will do. We're going to
take a quick break and we're gonna come back with
our yes ma'am's that are no man house by insect.

(01:07:14):
All right, y'all, so giving you all some I'm gonna
give you all some insight into the how basically, how
the meal is made.

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
Let me give you some ingredients.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
We're initially gonna do what's popping, and we decided that
this episode is getting up there, so we're gonna we're
gonna scrap to what's popping for this people. We're still
gonna talk pop culture. So we moved some things around
and so basically what I wanted to do was something
that we were gonna talk about in the West, popping.
I'm gonna talk about in the Yes ma'am because I
think it needs to be yes, ma'ammed. I want to yes, ma'am.

(01:07:43):
Is it Colled or KELLEYD. I would say his name
lead Khalid, Thank you Khalid. I want to yes, ma'am
him because I talking about what we talked about in
this episode. It would it would be stupid of me
to not mention that, yes, he came out. Really he
came out against his will. He was outing, and I
hate that for anybody, anybody who's ever been outed, you

(01:08:06):
know what it's like, you know what it feels like.
I fucking hate people who out people. That's honestly, truly,
more than a swiftie. I hate people who out people
that that literally is what gets under my skin. But
that's either nor there I wanted to send him some
love because I know people are responding to his new
music and his new I'm gonna even say new him

(01:08:27):
being his authentic self in front of the camera and
behind the mic a certain type of.

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
Way, and it fucking sounds he does have a new
sound though he does.

Speaker 3 (01:08:36):
Oh oh oh oh, we're say people are saying on
bad ways, yes, because because I'm in the good ways okay, right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
So we're getting we're getting a more authentic version of
him behind the mic in my opinion, yea. And people
are saying things of like, you know, he's being flamboyant
and he's being this, and he's being that I don't like,
and it's like, which fuck you one, But also too,
like the other part of me, it's like, let artists
be artists, like he has the right to be the
artist he wants to be, and if you don't like it,

(01:09:06):
then go find some other artists to listen to or
some other artists to support. You don't have to support
his music, but I just I personally just want to
say shout out to him for being like he could
have he literally could have said yes, I'm gay and
I'm gonna go ahead and do this thing where I
don't even talk about it or I don't even address it,
cause some artists do that. Some artists will literally tense
up and go, I don't want the world to know
this about me, like I mean, no shade to Queenatifa.

(01:09:28):
I don't if this ever gets in Queenlativa's ear, I
don't want her thinking that this is shae because it's not.
What I'm saying is is some queer people have a
certain way that they feel about their queerness and how
they talk about their queerness. We've never seen queerness in
Dana Owen's work, right, So for college to be call
it to be like, you know what, I'm gonna go
ahead and infuse my music in that Bravo girl, Do

(01:09:52):
you enjoy your time? Because who knows how? I mean,
we're looking at Nicki minaj well looking not her, and
how time is up. The time is up, so you know, like,
enjoy the moment you have and be your authentic self
in that time. And I just want to give him
his flowers now and saying thank you for not doing
the you know, doing the opposite right. And it's not

(01:10:13):
to say that it's wrong if he was to have
done that. What I'm saying is it is a big
feat to say I am who I am. I'm gonna
make music to represent who I am, and I just
wanted to say that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
Do you have thoughts before I move on?

Speaker 4 (01:10:25):
I absolutely do, because.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
It's just it's y'all be hitting.

Speaker 3 (01:10:33):
But it's so good, like because because he I two songs,
one simplaining Sight, which is very very house, very black house,
very all, I show me love, very all our crystal
waters like Bob Bob just like fun.

Speaker 4 (01:10:50):
And then and and and then his new one.

Speaker 2 (01:10:54):
But the new one it's very Britney spearcy. Yeah please,
it's very much given. Yeah, okay, it's also y'all, so
I will say yes. When I saw the choreo, I
was like, this is very like.

Speaker 3 (01:11:11):
Him and like and also like okay, So first of all,
if a K pop girl was doing those dance, you
would have to say about it, like y'alls said nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
If it was like little dinosaur arm, he would have
been doing those dinosaur arms.

Speaker 1 (01:11:24):
Everybody and Na Mama would be staying him like.

Speaker 3 (01:11:28):
Like like people are oppressed, people are oppressed about scograph
people like it's giving.

Speaker 4 (01:11:32):
It's like it's it's giving, Brittany, it's.

Speaker 3 (01:11:34):
Giving like oh like and like if he wants to
be if he was ant pop icon, who are we
to stop him? We know him in this moment, Tball,
I know, I know like so like so many CIS men,
once they allow themselves to like fiel their them selves
like like they like, they will just be more fan
And I love that, Like wow, what a world like

(01:11:56):
I would actually see as how sad that he had
at what brought him joy that part, that part to
like fit them all or something that part and that's
my two divine gravity.

Speaker 4 (01:12:07):
He said, I'm through three limits and someone said this,
so so he said, I.

Speaker 3 (01:12:11):
Will give you a little one too. I will give
you a little hip shimmy. Yeah, okay, I will give
you a little body role because I can.

Speaker 4 (01:12:17):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
Yep, and sure did. And so I definitely just want
to guess, ma'am him. I want to yes, ma'am anybody
in the industry who feels the pressure to and again
I'll be transparent and even saying I in this in
this moment, in this moment, I'm nowhere near what cal
it is. I'm nowhere near what any of these other
black where artists are. I want to be very clear
about that, But I too even feel the pressure of girl,

(01:12:42):
you're just you know, the world is not right now
is not the time for you right and and it's
easy for you to say maybe I need to turn
myself down so that way I can keep this money up.
But I every day wake up going fuck that. You
know what I mean, Like if if I go broke
because I'm a little too queer, or I'm a little
too loud, or I'm a little too fuck, it is

(01:13:06):
what it is, you know, if if I got to
go broke for just being myself, ay, you know, it
is what it is. And I think that's the thing
I definitely want to say, like it takes it really
like it takes a lot. I was gonna say something else,
but I changed my mind. It takes a lot to
be us. And I really wish like folks got that,

(01:13:29):
Like when you come out and you come out in
a certain way and you're are you're pushed out in
a certain way to come out and say I'm going
to celebrate that, it takes a lot of energy. And
I just want to make sure that if this ever
gets into Kalid's ear, he knows that I see him
and that I'm supporting him.

Speaker 4 (01:13:46):
And same thing.

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
The other baby who put that rap song out about
him and his dad's relationship and has built now has
another song coming out called Dad. And I don't know
the name of the baby, but there's a rapper that
just came out. Joey producer, We got to figure out
the name of the baby who just came out. They
have a rap song, but they're talking about their dad,
their dad. I think it's ghost Face. The ghost Face

(01:14:09):
Killer is their dad. And they have a song that
came up. But just even putting that out there, right,
the idea of like my father doesn't love me infinite coles, Yes,
thank you, thank you. They they have two songs about that.
But just again, like this, this shit is hard, this
ship is hard, and people are putting their livelihood out there.

(01:14:30):
So anyway, enough about that. I'm gonna say this real
quick and then we're gonna skadadaawn fuck you publics now.

Speaker 1 (01:14:37):
I don't want I know.

Speaker 2 (01:14:38):
I don't have a dog in this fight because I
don't live anywhere near publics. I don't know what's going
I don't know what publics does I know They're a
grocery store, So who am I to say anything? But
all that to be said, what I do know is
that Publics and what they did this past week impacts
black authors and so in the longest short of it,

(01:14:59):
if you haven't heard, they they initially this black author
event came to them and said, hey, can we use
you as a sponsor. They said yes, but it has
to be exclusive. They said, fine, if you're going to
spend all this money on us school, you can be exclusive.

Speaker 1 (01:15:13):
That's fine. I have no problem with that.

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
Two or three days before all of the stuff was
supposed to go out about this event, Public's rescinded that
and said, yo, actually, in the name of actually want
to name names, right, they were going to be the
exclusive sponsor for the Black Book Bash in Jacksonville, Flora,
So I want to name that. But days before the
event they pulled back and said, oh, the climate is
to this, that and the other, and we don't think

(01:15:36):
we want to know, we don't think we want.

Speaker 1 (01:15:38):
To be involved. And I'm just thinking, like.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
It's it's it just there's something in me that literally
wants to rage out or crash out, as the kids
are saying, whenever I hear people talk about this climate,
and I'm going none of us, Like I didn't create
this climate.

Speaker 1 (01:15:58):
You have a whole.

Speaker 2 (01:16:02):
Sorry, I just I'm really trying not to go off.
Like it's so frustrating anyway. Yeah, I don't want to
say anything that's gonna get us in trouble. But I
want to celebrate that the book festival went forward.

Speaker 1 (01:16:16):
But I I but I.

Speaker 2 (01:16:21):
Stop planning in our faces. That's where I'm gonna leave
it because I can feel myself seething.

Speaker 1 (01:16:30):
I'm so over this week, y'all. Y'all got me this week.

Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
I'm very over where we are as just as a place,
and it's it's really hard for me to talk about
this stuff without really wanting to, like go off. But
I don't want to end up. I don't wanna. I
don't want to. I don't want to go viral and
have will looking at me like girl, I believe it alone.

(01:16:59):
But I just want to say, fuck you publics. I
don't care if your chicken is good. You know what
the fuck you're doing. I feel like this ship is intentional.
I feel like I feel like this, Oh, come come
in here, We're gonna be exclusive. And then we're gonna
pull the carpet from under you. I feel like I
feel like they know what they were doing, they knew it,
and it's just it's it's I'm sick of it. I'm really,

(01:17:22):
really sick of it. I'm really sick of us being
the ones who are constantly having.

Speaker 1 (01:17:27):
To feel it. I'm like that, that's all I'm gonna say.
What about you? What are your yes man say or
no man's for this week?

Speaker 4 (01:17:35):
Well, I'll just say, you know, Jacksonville's doing nothing that
surprises me.

Speaker 3 (01:17:41):
Forget right, that's all said, right right, Yes, ma'am Pam
for reading Rainbow to Return.

Speaker 4 (01:17:49):
Yes, I'm reading Rainbow like to Find the Sky. I'm
very excited about and I think that'll be amazing. So same,
So like what what a doeserving person to teach? Well?
Literacy and reading books? So yang for that? My Nomam,
Pam is a hard one.

Speaker 3 (01:18:05):
I think people may hate me for this, and that's fine,
I hate me, but I think they'll I think they'll
different opinions.

Speaker 4 (01:18:10):
So so last week, with a week a half ago
from when this comes out, SA bust memory passed away.

Speaker 3 (01:18:19):
Those who don't know ash Cor was a black, black
Panther Party, member of Black Panther Revolutionary who was exiled
because let me let me live this year she had
she had fled America after being out a present incarcerated
because being a black woman in America has.

Speaker 4 (01:18:42):
Fought a lot for like.

Speaker 3 (01:18:46):
Especially for black woman's writes empowerment in the Black Panther
field and the Black Panther Party, but the Buck their
movement and power movement, and then and then and then
sought refuge to Cuba, which is compehens on its own ways,
and then America.

Speaker 4 (01:18:58):
Daingerous exiled and was not able to return in the country.

Speaker 3 (01:19:03):
But like activist power person that has inspired so many
people and passed it last week and a lot of
people are honoring her memory, some like I get the
reason why people would have like questions that's like, why
would you why would you like, why would you want
to honor her?

Speaker 4 (01:19:21):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah. In the same in the same vein
Kamala Harris.

Speaker 3 (01:19:25):
Relates really releases her book and people are like really
feeling for her, and then there are people in the
middle who are like, you cannot honor you cannot honor
as Corps and Kamala Harris in the same breath, and
I just want.

Speaker 4 (01:19:38):
To say nuance exists, like, yeah, yes, nuance exists.

Speaker 3 (01:19:45):
Like I like I get what people were saying of
like if you really hold the values of a Sasha
core that it's not actually in line with the values
of the Kamala Harris and like that's a fair critique.
And also like two things to beture one pe like
like like people people can people can like feel the
power reactions of and all like and also feel defensive

(01:20:10):
of Kama Harris like I'm I'm not saying I'm that person,
but like again truth like two things to be true once,
and I just like I wish like we like give
ourselves more like more chances to do that. Like it
makes me sad that in a world in which, especially
folks in this moment, we ask for no binaries, but

(01:20:32):
then the second something happens that doesn't align with our values,
even enforce a binary, and then that to me is
a MESSI rabmatic like if we if my modulation of
liberation work is that people feel free to do and
say or feel wants to do to do and say,
like feel free to feel however they want to feel.
And so if I believe that, then even if even

(01:20:54):
if they'd things don't align with my feelings, that is
also okay. Now I'm not here to tell them that
they're wrong for how they're feeling, like like, because shame
shame people down is not how you'll build the movement.

Speaker 4 (01:21:05):
Let it turn that right now, And so I just
want to name like.

Speaker 1 (01:21:10):
Some people can I can? I also say shutting people
down is what got us here?

Speaker 4 (01:21:15):
Mm hmm, but go off, keep going, well, like.

Speaker 3 (01:21:20):
So I just yeah, you know, I'm sure if there's
a listener that's like, I can't you said that you're
in Like I feel like, you know, like because like
my politics is definitelyne more more more more more one
way than the other for sure, but like like like
but but but like like I don't see the world
as I don't see the world is like you must
pick this and not this, right, like why can't people

(01:21:42):
have both?

Speaker 4 (01:21:44):
Also like also I'm gonna I'm not talking about I'm
not talking about women. What the should I feel that
part that's just not not not for me?

Speaker 2 (01:21:50):
But why can't we look at both of them as
being two black women who were trying to fuck up
a system that was never built for them, right, Like
they've try impact systems that literally or fight back or
push back, and I get it. I know that people
are like, oh, she has blood in her hands and
war crimes and all these Okay, okay, okay, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, like, yes,

(01:22:12):
we can talk about all of these things, but nobody
in politics.

Speaker 3 (01:22:16):
This is also why I would never want to work
in that field, because I'm never I don't want to
make the impulsile decisions like right like and like and like.
And I'm also never going to under like real talk,
I'm never going to understand what the thought process is
in those moments, right Like, as much as I want
something to happen, I know that like what.

Speaker 4 (01:22:37):
I want is cannot happen in that system.

Speaker 2 (01:22:41):
Well, I mean, let's talk about our show here, right
there have been things, not just the stuff we're seeing
right now, but there have been things way bigger than
have happened, and we have wanted to come on the
air and say, and it's not to say that we're silenced,
but we understand the like, for every reaction, there is
a reaction.

Speaker 1 (01:23:00):
For every action, there's a reaction.

Speaker 2 (01:23:02):
And me and you have off the air, had really nuanced,
hard conversations about how we were going to talk about things,
and go, how are we going to discuss this thing
without sucking up our bag?

Speaker 1 (01:23:13):
This is honesty, right, This is us being upfront.

Speaker 2 (01:23:16):
And it's hard because even just in this moment, right,
there were things I wanted to say in the last
like as I was talking about my no ma'am that
I'm thinking, okay, John, if if someone was to cut this,
that's what I'm having to do in real time as
I'm reading the script, I'm thinking to myself, if someone
cuts this and this goes viral, how is this going
to look for the show? How is this going to

(01:23:37):
look for everything that we've built around this show? So
like you can like this is this, this is and
it's and it's done this way intentionally. It's done this
way intentionally, right, it's it's it's done as a way
to keep us from from saying the hard thing out
loud because so much of it is rooted in capitalism,

(01:23:59):
So much of that is rooted the money.

Speaker 3 (01:24:01):
It's harder, it's is they say the hard thing out loud? Yes,
personally when you when when when when you don't have
the highest stake in it? Right, Like and I want
to think about that as well too, like especially like
in like like like in the work, like in like

(01:24:21):
my like job job, right, like we have like we
have a higher stake in the things are happening, and
we can't speak on it because our steak is too
high because it will fuck up somebody, It will fuck
up an entire field of folks of color, it will
surely fuck up support of another group of people. And
so like we there's things that we cannot do and say.

(01:24:44):
And those who are I'm like you're like like yes,
like like like thank you for saying. And also your
steak you don't have. You don't have a steak, like
if shit goes south, nothing impacts you other in the day,
and so like you know, so like like I like
that same thing, Like I cannot a being Callma Harris, right,

(01:25:05):
I don't want to I don't want to do politics
for that. For that, for that reason, I think I'd
be killed, Like I think i'd be killed.

Speaker 4 (01:25:10):
I actually think I was melodics.

Speaker 3 (01:25:11):
I'd be killed because like because I because like like
I'm not I'd be killed like like for real, right,
like I know that I wouldn't do what she did,
but I like That's why I want to do it all.

Speaker 4 (01:25:23):
And so I'm like I don't want to begin to
understand like like like like and like I don't know,
like I what was I watched? I watched what was that?
That show with what was what was the name? The
new one that was fuck it was was Stolian K. Brown.
And it's like the end of the world, right, the.

Speaker 3 (01:25:44):
Right, But there's that moment where the president has a decision,
does he like blow up the world or the thing?

Speaker 4 (01:25:51):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:25:52):
I never want to be in that mindset, right, buttons
and each decision will have a whole different outcome.

Speaker 4 (01:26:01):
Yep, and I and a bunch of people are telling
you that you were wrong with decision. Ye yep, that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:26:07):
And and then let's let's just talk about it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:09):
People automatically are going to have bad takes and hot
takes on Kamma Airs because she's a black woman.

Speaker 1 (01:26:15):
M well, well what.

Speaker 3 (01:26:19):
No, no, no, on No one's about that because because
because the people people are also like, well she really black,
and I'm like girl like like because people will also
then say like, well she's out, she's South Asian, she's
both like she's literally both do not like, don't just
don't describe her blackness that doesn't fit what your blackness
should be, right, Like that is.

Speaker 1 (01:26:39):
Just it's just it's it's very nuanced.

Speaker 2 (01:26:41):
But like I said, like to your point, right, you know, people, well,
why aren't you talking about this this way? I'm going
a lot of the girls that you see that get
behind a mic and talk very openly about the ship
that that that we see in our world. They're on
independent networks. They don't have anybody to answer to, and
we do. And I think that's just that's the reality

(01:27:02):
of it. And it's just I understand, you know, you
gotta play the game to the other. Yes, but also
I have a cardinal, I just bought a condo, I
got student loans. Every time I get on the mic,
my mind is in this mind of say the hard ship,
but say it the right way.

Speaker 1 (01:27:19):
And I think that's the thing I want people to
understand that this is a game.

Speaker 2 (01:27:22):
Like anytime you have your name connected to a network,
a book, a book deal, a TV show or whatever,
like you're you're you have to like you can you
can be Look, I can be Amanda Seals. No shade
to Amanda Seals. But I've also heard people not booking
her for things, right, you gotta you gotta know what

(01:27:45):
a A and again, and I love Amanda.

Speaker 1 (01:27:49):
I love what she stands for. I love what she
what she's rooted in.

Speaker 2 (01:27:53):
And then she's like, I'm gonna stand ten toes down
and what's right for black people.

Speaker 1 (01:27:58):
Yes, Amanda, Yes girl.

Speaker 2 (01:28:00):
But also the reality is that we got to know
that when you take a stance on certain things, you
gotta know that there are other people looking at you.

Speaker 1 (01:28:07):
Going mwn no, don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:28:12):
So I'm also gonna say this. You know, this was
also going to be part of my guest ma'am, and
then we have to speed on. I definitely did want
to say one of my parts of the yes Man
before I tweaked it was gonna say I simply want
to shout out anyone who isn't being quiet right now.
You know, I've said this online and I will say
it here. I know that my bookings for my speaking
engagements have dropped, by acts for being on panels have dropped.

(01:28:34):
All those things are subsequently have gone out the window
because I know that people are doing a witch hunt
on DEI. But I want to make it queer and
clear that silence can only protect you for so long.
And so I say that to say say what you
need to say, but be intentional about how you say it.
That is where my mind is. And so, like I've said,
and everybody knows for all one hundred and seventy one episodes,

(01:28:57):
everybody over here at Black Fatfem knows who who we
are and what we stand for. Can I come out
and say this, that and the other. No, But I'm
gonna tell you right now that if you know me offline,
you know where the fuck I am, you know what
I stand for, you know what I'm about, and I'll
just say it that way. But I also want to
make sure that people who truly in their heart believe, like, oh,

(01:29:19):
I can't say anything because I don't want to rub
anybody the wrong way.

Speaker 1 (01:29:22):
I don't want to fuck up my baby.

Speaker 2 (01:29:24):
The oppression is going to be at your door soon
and it is going to drag you out of that
very comfortable bed that you sleep in every night because
it's coming. So that's the law I don't want to
take away from you or no, ma'am, But I definitely
believe what you're talking about hits home because I think
a lot of people are in this mind of like, well,
I'm just not gonna say anything at all, so that
way I don't ruffle any feathers. And I'm like, bitch, no,

(01:29:47):
you need to say something. Everybody should be saying something
right now because that's how.

Speaker 4 (01:29:51):
We got here.

Speaker 1 (01:29:52):
But also, you know, intent versus.

Speaker 4 (01:29:55):
Impact, so period, Okay, let's rob this bitch up.

Speaker 3 (01:30:00):
We said a whole lot of things now sing almost
two hours.

Speaker 4 (01:30:07):
The whole boy of us is to not be this song.
Here we are being the song.

Speaker 2 (01:30:10):
I know.

Speaker 4 (01:30:10):
Joey is like Joey's like bitch.

Speaker 1 (01:30:13):
It is a Friday.

Speaker 4 (01:30:14):
Let's be done.

Speaker 2 (01:30:16):
Yes, Please send us your thoughts, your feedback and email
to blacks I feel pot at gmail dot com. You
can also send your thoughts for your social media bitch,
just hit us on Instagram and threads. Girl, where can
they find you?

Speaker 1 (01:30:30):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (01:30:32):
Sorry, I was so I was re enjoys response. My
bad Joey, come and we go out to this My
bad Joey, where can I be found?

Speaker 3 (01:30:42):
You gowns across all socials during dales dot com and
it's not there.

Speaker 4 (01:30:49):
You will If not there, girl, working, will you find me?
I cannot tell you if He's not there, girl, Oh no,
not there.

Speaker 3 (01:30:54):
You will find me. It's sleeper seasons. You'll find me
living my best, live, shicking ass. I'll remember.

Speaker 2 (01:31:00):
Yes, your birthday is coming up. Yeah, your birthday is
coming up. Yes, yes, yes, we got to get down
there and shake a little as for you, but say yes, yes, yes, yes,
excited for that as for me and mind. You know
where to find me doctor John Paul dot com. You
can find me on Instagram and threads along with our
show on Instagram and threads, uh, doctor John Paul, or

(01:31:22):
you can you know, find our show Blackfatfeinpod. You know,
send us the thoughts. I know we said a lot
in this episode. There was a lot we also didn't
say in this episode. And you know probably are trying
to read between lines.

Speaker 1 (01:31:34):
I know y'all got things to say.

Speaker 2 (01:31:36):
Buy my book. Tell your mama and your uncles and
your aunties. Buy it for Christmas. It's still time to
buy my book. For those of you who are still
buying it and still tagging me, I love y'all, Thank you,
I see you so much. You can also see me
on ABC Our America Who I Meant to Be? Don't
forget to head over to ww dot Signal Award not
with the next Signal Award dot Com to vote for
us both for Diversity Inclusion and Best LGBTQ Podcast. We

(01:32:00):
want to thank our super producer Joey pat for literally
dealing with us and rocking with us for almost two
fucking hours. We were talking about just being gay for
two hours. It's just you know, what a time.

Speaker 1 (01:32:13):
What a time.

Speaker 2 (01:32:14):
But thank you Joey for making this ship pop and
everyone over at iHeartMedia who let us keep showing up
every week to talk our ship in this mic. We
want to shout out our wonderful editor Chris Rogers, who
has to edit this. My god, Chris, my god. I
love you though, Chris, let me tell you, you make
every single week.

Speaker 1 (01:32:34):
We didn't even we didn't even start our show by
thank you, Chris. We sing at our daily prayer. Oh
my lord.

Speaker 2 (01:32:42):
Well Chris, take this as a message. We we thank you,
We love you, and we appreciate all that you do
for not only the audio, but for uh the tubes
of you.

Speaker 1 (01:32:52):
This has been another show. Stay black, facts them and
fabulous and remember what, Jojo.

Speaker 4 (01:32:57):
We may not be the cup of tea, but girl
just say min may you got the juice?

Speaker 1 (01:33:03):
Yes, what flavor? What flavor?

Speaker 2 (01:33:05):
Hole?

Speaker 1 (01:33:06):
Oh? Are you drinking to me? Okay, so I do love.

Speaker 4 (01:33:11):
Their sweet they have they have was it the the
simply light lemonade?

Speaker 2 (01:33:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:33:18):
Or they have a zo sugar and mingo passion.

Speaker 2 (01:33:20):
Okay, Okay, you got money because those are expensive. I'm
a I'm a I'm a simple fruit punch girlie. But
the fruit punch in the boxer don't taste the same
as the one in the carton. But we'll get to
that on another episode. Come on and take a sip
of honey and honey, I'll see you next week.

Speaker 1 (01:33:35):
I love a for real Bye.

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