Start Where You Are (Featuring Jeffrey Marsh)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Black Fat Fin Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
and Doctor John Paul LLC. Hey everyone, welcome to another
episode of the Black Sliffin Podcast, where all the intersections
of identity are celebrated. I am one of your hosts,
John also known as Doctor John Paul. And while I'm
sitting here looking fine and forty, nah, I got a

(00:21):
few words from a girl down to miss Cheesecake fat Tree.
Oh you know, how dare you? When I yell at
a girl like this, it's because I love her. So
recently I went down to the cheesecake factory and I
learned that she turned her back on me. She got

(00:42):
rid of the Macadamian nut cheesecake. Oh, the only cheesecake.
So I like the other cheesecakes, but that one that
was my girl, That was the one, that was the
long one, that was the long day.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yeah, it was the long They can take out, take
out the delicious one, and they could have.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Gotten rid of a whole bunch of other ones, but yeah,
you're gonna get rid of the macadamia nut one. You're
gonna make it. Literally. So I'm sitting at the tables going, well,
what do I do? I came here yes, I got
to work. But what do I do? But what would
you like? Something else?

Speaker 3 (01:21):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:21):
I don't want anything else. I don't even want to
be here at this moment. So I'm looking at the
way to the waiter looking at me. I'm looking at
the water and in the way to looking at me, and
I'm going I have no words.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
You said, actually I have to go, come girl.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Literally, So now I'm sitting here like this is a
scheme that Todd set up to hit us with the bullshit.
I can't do it. I can't do it. I can't
do it. But anyway, how are you, queen Joho? I'm
sure you're better than me because I have no macadamia
nut cheesecake. How are you see it? I see it?

(01:56):
I see it?

Speaker 2 (01:56):
For those who don't, those who don't watch the show
actually have a glass in a reason in my hand.
Let me just hit a little sip.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Real quick, pinat Grisia, pina grazia. Oh. I was gonna
start singing pe but that's not what it is.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
It's been a day, it's been a week. I am
having a behavior. I'm having multiple behaviors. I'm having a
man tv ya is Schagarl Joho or Jordan and checks
and it may you, it may may if you if
you think, like michelect called from prison, because this maybe

(02:34):
the week where I might have to go what the
authorities might have to get me.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
I got you, I got your I got you, though
I do.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Thank you, thank you post baby, because I got you,
the Lord says, in trying me and Mercury. Mercury is
a nats the bitch, that's a that's the bitch. This
season she is doing the most havock she's ever had
done before. Just like it's just not what begin to
the John knows who followed me or watched social media.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
As soon as I saw that note, I knew exactly
what you were talking about. I knew exactly what I
was like, Oh, that's what that's about.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Ive a question, you know, how do you not know your
own ship? Your own ship?

Speaker 1 (03:17):
Because people don't pay attention. People don't pay attention, That's
what it is. People don't people.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
Because they're liars, because it's a lot to.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
You, and they see the money first, and so they
think that they're going to get over on you, knowing
damn well that they did what they were supposed to do.
I know exactly I am not.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
I am.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
I'm screaming la boo theo.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Try Jesus, try your mom, try try Buddha, but don't
try me.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
You can even try Trader Joe's.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
You can try Trade Joe's, try out, you can even
try about you.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
Just don't try me, girl, don't try me. Try all
of the things. But anyway, with this week, we are
about to bring and some beautiful light into the show,
this beast. We are a community with someone who I
have always seen as a beacon of So I'm gonna
just say this. This is off the cuff. This is
not me reading a script.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
You know.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
You just look at somebody and you ha ha, I'm
talking about you right now, And I'm looking down at
the clock and it's an it's an angel number. So again,
we have an angel with us here today. That that
just makes me feel so much better to be here.
But I sell of that to say, this person has
reminded me that in a world full of negativity, that
you can still be a light, and that you can

(04:34):
also still continue to put good out there even when
the world is trying to dump soil on it. I've
always appreciated this person for not only what they bring
to the world, but I'm so thankful that they even
said yes to being on the show. You know, there
are people out there who have you know, they have
a platform, and we know they have a platform, and

(04:55):
they know that they know that they are the shit,
and you ask them and you beg them, and they, oh,
I don't you know, I don't have time. This person
could easily do that to us. And immediately when I
asked them, I they were immediately like, yes, just let
me know when to be there. Best selling author, non
binary activist, viral social media personality recognized for their empowering

(05:16):
messages of self acceptance and LGBTQ issues. They are the
first openly non binary, so this is important for me
to note. They are the first openly non binary person
to appear on national television and a pioneer and advocating
for They them usage of pronouns on television, which I
think is a big deal because people still play on
our faces about the the them of it all and oh,

(05:37):
I don't understand pronouns. I doesn't understand what it means,
and so it just it makes me feel really good
to know that this person has so much beautiful work
out there. They've reached millions and millions of views with
their inspirational videos on TikTok best selling books How to
Be You and Take Your Own Advice. We are so
happy to have Jeffrey Marsh here on the show How

(05:58):
Are You?

Speaker 4 (06:01):
I was waiting, I was waiting to tell you how
much I love you, oh honey, And I mentioned it
a little bit before we hit record. You saved me.
You kept me going the two of you this show.
And I know something of what it's like to be
in front of the camera and that can be lonely sometimes, yeah,

(06:24):
But I also know what it's like to be vulnerable
and tell your story and be honest and frank about
who you are and what's up and tell the truth
and what comes with that. So I love you both.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
Not you trying to get tears out of us ten
minutes into the show. Six wait, actually six fifty six, honey,
trying to already take us down. And you know how
I feel about crying on this.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
Because it's it's a tender week. It's a tender week.
So you are touching me in my in my in
my heart chords, like do you hear chords? With this,
I'm still going.

Speaker 4 (06:59):
To keep going.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Are you ready?

Speaker 4 (07:02):
It's a tender week, and the two of you represent
what's most important in the world. I receive that if
nobody has a reminder of what we should be talking about,
what we should be doing here, m hm, then we're
in big trouble. Yeah, that's why they want to destroy

(07:24):
it so much.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
And that is what I'm learning very quickly. I think
we are in a place, you know, and we're going
to talk about it a little bit later in the show,
but I think very actively, you know. So I'll say
this when you talk about it being a tender week,
I have been in my feelings all week about a
whole bunch of different things, specifically even my own career.
You know, the calls have stopped, you know, the the
emails have slowed down tremendously, and the calls for me

(07:49):
being on things, being a part of things has also
slowed down. And sometimes, you know, so that makes you
step back and wonder what am I doing wrong? And
I think, you know, it's funny, funny enough so and
I was gonna post it on social but I'll just
talk about it here. My best friend. I've told you
all this before, and I'm sorry I'm taking too much time,
but my best friend y'all all know, she passed away

(08:12):
in twenty twenty two, and she knew that one of
my favorite songs was do Your Thing by n Sync,
and we would sing it together all the time. And
so yesterday I was just having a day and I
was like, bitch, just get up, go run some errands,
get your eyebrows done, go grab some candy. Call it
a day. Right, And immediately and again I was still

(08:33):
again filling my fills as I was getting in the car.
And as soon as I got in the car and
I turned on my Apple Music, that song came on
and I was like, that's Carla. I was like, that's
Carla's reminder to me to keep going. And so you
saying that it's extremely timely in this moment, because my god,

(08:54):
it felt like I'm getting it left and right, and
I'd just been like, okay, girl, we just got to
keep going. And so if you've never heard that song,
it's a great song. Some of you gen z ers
will probably have no idea who in Sync is, but
it is. It is very much The lyrics in the
song says, if you're doing it, doing it well, believe

(09:14):
that nobody can do it better than you. And so
I think that's the thing I have to constantly remind
myself is like, even in this moment that I feel
like the world is not seeing it for me, or
seeing it for this show or singing it for what
I'm trying to put out into the world, that I
still would believe that nobody is doing it better than us.

Speaker 4 (09:31):
You know, I agree. I have two things to say. One,
how could you take up too much time on your
own podcast show trying to tell you what to do?
I gotta get onto the outline, get onto the outlant.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Yeah, I'm like, our last two shows have been two
hours that I've had guests be like, Okay, now look,
yeah we got bullied. We got bullied on our own show. Okay,
wrap that ship up.

Speaker 4 (10:05):
You were saying some of the reactions you get from
other folks. I consider this to be one of the
most important things I've ever done. Thank you being in
community this this week with people who have integrity, who
are doing who are doing everything right.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
Thank you.

Speaker 4 (10:23):
Okay, Okay, I know we need to get onto the
outlet before we want to ask you a question.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yeah. I mean, I'm telling you the one thing about
Jeffrey she she gonna do is make you cry.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
They don't get us right. They don't get us right today.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
Literally literally, So let's get into it.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Okay, what what jiffy you said? You a question?

Speaker 4 (10:45):
I just have one more thing to say.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
Go ahead, go ahead.

Speaker 4 (10:48):
Macadamien seems like a foundational flavor. Yes, that's just it.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
We just have questions.

Speaker 4 (10:54):
We just have they have they have twenty thirty flavors,
and that that's the one.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
It's I don't we just we don't. We don't understand.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
All these flavors you could have gotten rid of who
like the celebration she's get it's cute, but don't nobody
won't that nobody want.

Speaker 4 (11:14):
That pineapples on it and chocolate chips and like, what do.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
You my girl? Not to watch all? My girl? Papa said,
down not to much, my girl. Okay, And in that case,
I'm gonna I'm taking our first teg because y'all throwing shades.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
It.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
We are decided to pick out my show we do
every week by May giving this to she Cambo her
flowers and are still hair segment, so that we are
still here, walking off the conversation by asking the question,
what's the current trend on tiver social media that has
made you smile or maybe one that you do so
for me, if those who are watching, I'm wearing your house.
I like all the kids, the the gen Z babies,

(11:52):
so there's no like clipping like flowers or plants. They
wearing their hair on their clothes and pardon me, is like,
what the fuck is on your head? But the part
of me is like, I just feel cute. I just
feel so cute with it. I'm still so adorable.

Speaker 4 (12:06):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
I'm like it's cute and like thank you, and I'm
just like, no, I feel like I'm like, oh, look
like she's in blue and with the yeah, it's nice.
I get the gen Z people. Now the kids are
you know, the kids, the kids to join the lives?
You know the kids are the kids? Get the kids,
the kids growing up with a lost stress And they said,
I don't don't makes me happy. I love to see it.

(12:28):
And I'm man too, like I have a pack of
these people have a blue blue people have smisky people
have I have these little blanklets. I have bloody my hair,
my hair, girl, I got grand got purple, I got blue,
I got a rainbow like I put my every day
and it's cute. It's cute.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
That's me.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
I love it. Jeffrey. How about you. What's a little
trend that you that made you smile?

Speaker 4 (12:50):
I'm gonna say too, and maybe we'll start off crying.
But the second one is not crying. It's not really
a trend per se. But I just love people straight,
people standing up for trans writes on TikTok, because we
know for twenty twenty three ish it was a little
out the door, so it's good when people are back.

(13:12):
But I love a cake decorating video. Oh okay, and
they've actually, in this new era turned a little dark.
Oh that they used to be like they couldn't make
it work out, but then we made them a cake
and everything's great, you know, real positive. And now they're like,
this woman came into my store and she said she

(13:34):
ordered a cake, but she didn't and I had to
bring out the receipts and prove to her. You know,
now it's about drama. Drama, yeahraa while they're decorating the cake. Yes,
a new era to your vein of the cakes. I'm
also very into nail decorating video. I've noticed that that
has really taken over my timeline because and maybe it's

(13:56):
because I get my nails done so often. I'm always
looking for like a new, new and I'm looking for
something that you know, one up what you know.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
Shout out to Amber because I know she listens to
the show. She's the girl who does my nails, and
so I know she's always looking for something fun or
we'll talk when she does my nails. She says, Ah,
saw this TikTok video. Let's try this, And I'm like, girl,
go for it. I'm fitna go cost me too much.
But for the most part, I love I love a neil.
But you know what else I'm gonna say, And y'all

(14:24):
already probably know where I'm going. Nothing beats a jet
to holiday for me. Nothing nothing beat in right now,
you can say fifty pounds per person, that's two hundred
pounds for a family of four. The fact that I
know that herbatim is everything to me. I reels tiktoks

(14:49):
everything and then listen, if you really want to talk
about why it makes me so happy, it is when
it's tied to a video of something terrible or awfully
funny happening. I have seen so many videos where I'm like, yeah,
and so for those who don't know, so you do
know what a jet to holiday is, right, So someone
someone from UK broke it down to me and said
that jet to Holiday is the same as Expedia. It's

(15:14):
the same thing. Like, so you go on to jet
to holiday, Yeah, you book, you book your your holiday.
You book your holiday. That you book your holiday and
then and then yeah you go off and you do
things and so you could save on your holiday. And
I just I really love what I've what I've really

(15:36):
loved is the way that black people have taken it
and have spun it. So I've seen some where people
are like nothing beats a jet to holiday ass whooping
or nothing like literally, and then there's this bounced version
and this, Chris is this is where you can cut
in the bounce version holiday, the one from like the

(15:57):
little girl from Louisiana from New Orleans who has made
a whole little bounced version of it that is gone
viral as well. It's just so fucking funny to me.
Not holiday, you could say, real good though, death fo
hundred family of both nothing.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
Nothing not.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
It's literally what I love about the Internet is how creative.
I think that's the thing I love the most is
that we can say something so stupid and so simple
and it just it opens up this whole plethora of
creativity that we often don't get to see on a
day to day without social media. So I mean, I
just love it now that.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
We now that we've absolutely stopped it and they have
sent us a season the system from the jet to
holiday company and come back with the category for the
week on just a second.

Speaker 4 (17:06):
The world can be such a confusing, conflicted, chaotic place
so much as outside of our control. It's understandable if
you feel lost, alone, estranged, sometimes even from yourself, But
it doesn't have to be so overwhelming. And I'm here
to show you that the solution is right in front

(17:27):
of you, and in fact, the solution is within you.
So while I am a best selling author and an
activist who fights for everyone to have fundamental rights, and
while I am a social media creator with over three
billion views, what I want most with this podcast is

(17:47):
to be a resource for you. So tune in to
Inner Voice with Jeffrey Marsh every Monday wherever you get
your podcasts. I cannot wait to meet you.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
All right, and we are back, my sweet babies. And
so for this week, for our category is segment. I
feel like it would be perfect to chat with Jeffrey
about something I think they do so well and I
think so many of us are trying to embody it,
but I think many of us also struggle with it.
And so you know, as you know, I've been a follower,
I have read your stuff, I watch your videos quite often.

(18:23):
I know we talk a lot about it on this show.
We've talked a lot about and we even had a
segment about it. You know, this whole concept of self
love and how do we how do we give ourselves
the love that we so freely give to other people.
But one of the things that we haven't really dived
into on the show that I think would be so
fantastic for us to really get into is how do
we talk to ourselves nicer? And I know this personally

(18:46):
because I always like to tell, you know, I tell
these little stories here and there that sometimes I'll just
be like working in my office and I'll be mine
in my business, not doing anything but just the work
that I'm supposed to be doing, and randomly this voice
will come in my head and be like, you're stupid
and nobody really loves what you're doing. It's a waste
of time here, Like what the fuck? I why am
I saying that to myself? Like Jesus Christ, you know,

(19:09):
it just it just pops into your head. And so,
you know, I thought you were, like you're the quintessential
person that's telling everyone to be to love themselves and
to be kinder to themselves. And so first, what I
really wanted to know is I would love to talk
to you about Praxice, about how you got to this
place of speaking kinder to yourself and telling the world

(19:31):
to like follow sloop, like why was that so? And
I know part of your story, but like why was
that and why was that so important for you?

Speaker 4 (19:38):
I'm so glad you said praxis. I mean, if I'm
remembering correctly, that's like when theory becomes actual. Yes, And
so that's what we're doing every single day. And we
I named my podcast inner Voice as a way to
replace people's inner voice when they have the headphones on,
but the cruel one that you're talking about, Yeah, and

(19:59):
when whatever I'm working with people or encountering people and
you you start to talk to them about self talk.
The first thing that happens is they they deny that
it's happening for them. So to hear you talk about
it so frankly is just so refreshing because you get
into it with them for I don't know, a minute

(20:21):
or two, and they start to realize that it says
the most cruel, evil, awful things that you would never
say to another person.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (20:32):
Never, everybody hates you. You would never say that to
another person, And that crap is what people.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
Maybe there are a couple of people in the world
I would say that too, and we know who they
are in office, but go off.

Speaker 3 (20:48):
Sorry, well this is interesting.

Speaker 4 (20:52):
This is interesting because people think that if they change
that in their own head, they're going to become a monster.
Yeah right, So there's this fear that if you take
care of yourself, you're going to become selfish and you're
going to become this market. So the solution is then
to walk around with this heavy, evil, awful stuff. Mine
was always you. You're too queer, you're too queer, you're

(21:13):
too queer, you're too much for everybody. I grew up
in a violent household, but it was also emotionally violent
and verbally violent, right, And I took that outside of
voices that I encountered at home and made them inside voices.
And so I know where mine came from, and it's society,

(21:34):
it's my family of origin, it's can I tell you
a teeny story, I'll go into the monastery. So I
was at the monastery and it was three in the morning,
and I was being visited by some familiar voices in
my head. This was early on in my training, my
Buddhist training. So I was a newbie, and we stayed

(21:55):
in little cabins by ourself, little huts, and so I
was in this cabin by myself, and I was three
in the morning, and I was awake, and there was
this familiar voice. Everybody hates you. Why don't you just
not be here, You shouldn't go on, why do you
do this? You're disgusting, on and on. By that time,

(22:17):
as a trans person who was really familiar to me
that set of voices, and I realized in that moment,
all by myself, that I had never sat with what
those voices are. I had spent my life running to
try to avoid them. If that makes sense, even though
they're inside my own head. I just was always trying

(22:37):
to avoid them. And so my teacher at the monastery
had said, the meditation hall is open all night long.
If you want to go in, you can at any time.
And so I realized I had never just literally sat
with them, which sounds unpleasant, but we'll get there. And
I said, I'm tired of running. I'm over it. And

(23:00):
I walked through the woods. It's in California, in the
Bay Area. I walked through the redwoods to the meditation
gorge and there's there was always a lamp lit like
an old timy like oil lamp lit in the meditational
so the you know, the light is dancing on the walls.
And I sat down on a cushion and faced the
wall and I just sat and listened to that voice.

(23:22):
And then I started to hear this other voice that
you know, you both know and talk about. And the
second voice was saying, thank you, I love you, I'm here,
You're okay. And I just knew right in that moment
which voice I wanted to devote my entire life tom

(23:46):
And it was not that first one.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, I love love love that. Sorry, such a cool story.
I'm also just curious as with that in the mirror
woods or where like where.

Speaker 4 (24:01):
Was at the foothills of the Sierra Nevados, was where
the monastery property.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
Was gorgeous gorgeous retreats. Mmmmm, So I love I love
this story so much, but very much because I feel like, like, what,
like it's so true that if you allow yourself to
really quiet the mind and listen to all the voices,
you actually we hear loved, but also saying I love

(24:26):
you and you're safe and like like and the you
know the voice, right, because the voice that is telling
you you're not ship is like your voice of anxiety, right,
trying to and and it's it's like in some ways
there's trying to keep you safe. They trying to keep
you safe for like let's not do too much because
like you aren't ship, not because actually not ship, because
it's like this is like you want to find comfort

(24:47):
and you know in the anxiety because the voice that
tells you you actually are everything, it's that's actually sometimes
more scary, like oh, like to believe on everything is
like wow. And so I really like but I appreciate
you like like saying like that that's that that's the
voice you put in love with the other voice you
did keep your life to you because that because that's

(25:07):
the voice that all of us, I believe all of
us really want to actually listen to. And proplesaying and
I think people you want to think about tools for this.
We're taught to like try and like shush that that
like that anxiety voice. One thing I found a lot
in my in my therapy work is is is actually
thinking it like saying, Noah, I appreciate you and trying
to protect me. I appreciate you for trying to keep

(25:28):
me humble, but also your work here is done. I
actually don't need you another job. That's the time I
think we're good, you know, but like because because like
like like like like because like like you don't you
don't want to shame yourself either, like out of that
voice too, because you're only creating more voices of shame, right,
and so when you so when you're when when you
see I think once I've I found for me is

(25:51):
saying like when that when that voice of shame comes up,
I'm like, no, what, like I'm not going to attack
you for having this stop right, So I can't. I
really can't control my thoughts, like the thoughts for my
conditioning that I have to. Actually, so this is the
part of who I am, and I can just work
with it and say, like, no, what I hear you, girl,
you like I might during I hear your girl, you
think you're on shit. The world will show you otherwise,

(26:12):
and people that you love show you otherwise. And I
think you can actually believe both voices and just say
thank you to that voice of trying to turn of
that ship because because it's not true. And I think
you know, Jeffrey, this is so timely because messaging we're
seeing both online and offline is it is when it
tells us that we deserve terrible things, and we just
are the things that we're we deserve the horrible things
that we're seeing and hearing about us in our communities.

(26:35):
And so I'm also curious about what techniques you might
use or you might suggest to personally count to personally
counter those that you know, those those negative shadow selves.

Speaker 4 (26:49):
Yeah, but I kind of respond to the seventeen brilliant things
that you said first at least one, you know, I
want to at least talk about one of them, because you.
I think you were saying something that really resonates with me.
Sometimes I know who I am because I am the
anxious one. And if you're going to undermine that, you're

(27:11):
going at something fundamental. It's not gonna it's going to
take time. It's very easy, right If if who I
am is the one the receiver of those voices and
I start playing around with that, heck yeah, there's going
to be resistance. And also it was so brilliant what
you said. We're constantly re surviving our childhood, yeah, right,

(27:32):
even when it may not be relevant anymore to us.
And I think what you're implying is a lot of
forces want us to be in that spot.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
I feel so triggered, but go off, Sorry no, but
go off.

Speaker 4 (27:53):
You were talking about the stuff we see and hear
about our community, right and where they want us, And
that's something I find so inspiring about both of you
and this show. Two, how are you all with receiving compliments?
You're fine with it? Right, That was a question. Are
you so you defy? I think what this week especially,

(28:20):
but you know the weeks that we've been living through,
it's a stripping away of anything outside that's going to
affirm you. It's just and I don't know, you know,
I don't like to think of it in terms of,
you know, there's some force that's doing it to teach
you a lesson, like that's not a good model. But
it's like now we're in a time period where there's

(28:42):
so much opposition. Yeah, when there was this era of
so much affirmation, and now we're in this place of
so much opposition and the stripping away, And so the
one thing we do get to see is, well, what's
left what I give to me? The rest of it
has been taken away? M and you both demonstrate how

(29:05):
to do that. Yeah, thank you, you know, and literally
have fun. Yeah, yeah, right.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
And I think that's the thing I've been really trying
to lean in on, right, is that the world and
I have to I have to tell myself that constantly.
And I've said it both in the book. I've said
it in you know, in our live shows. I've said
it on the air. I said, I think there's just
this element of these people are too free, These people
are too they know themselves too well. And I say

(29:35):
these people, I say collectively meaning us, right, queer people, well,
black queer people like you know, people like us who
look and live like us so openly and freely. And
I think that's the era and the time that we're in.
And so when you when you hear that, it is
easy for you to go into your head and start saying, well,
maybe I am a little too free and I should

(29:56):
be scared for how free that I am. And I
think that's the thing I really in this conversation wanted
to kind of like hit on, is that there's as
much as you're not you know, as much as you're
not hearing it, you're still getting sub like you're getting
subtle reminders that you don't matter. And I think about
this a lot. Right when you turn on a TV,
like I had to tell someone that recently, someone had

(30:17):
asked me if I saw I think it was The
Hunting Wives or whatever they call it on Netflix, and
I was like, no, I'm not watching that. And I'm
not watching it not necessarily because I don't think it's
a good show. I'm not watching it because it's just
another white television show.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
Ye. And I've said that's one of the ways that
the world is trying to reiterate to black people that
we don't and our stories don't matter, right, the podcast
that I listen to outside of our own right, Like
I listened to my podcast back because obviously I need
to make sure that it sounds good.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
But there are other podcasts that I listen to, and
I'm intentional about those two because I'm going, who are
the people that are in my ear? What are the
messages that they're giving me? What are the messages that
I'm taking away? And so I think that that's the
thing I'm really happy to be more intentional about, Like
you said, right, being so intentional about the messaging and
and the voices and even the people, the people that

(31:10):
you keep around you will literally change the way you
think about yourselves. And so I've had to remove people
from my life because they didn't make me feel good,
they didn't make me feel like I could speak good
to myself. And so I really just yeah, man, I
really relish in what you just share. You know, one
of the things I've been saying since learning in one
of my sessions with my therapist is that many of

(31:32):
the voices that we hear in our head are not
our own, they're the world there. You know that that
that homophobic, Like for me, it's my eyes. I'll come out, huh,
I say the families, families. I'm just gonna say, y'all, No,
I don't have a good relationship with my stepsister. And
one of the feelings that I've had around being queer
is her voice. I remember when I was like seventeen

(31:54):
or eighteen, we were going to in and out and
she basically in so many words that that she didn't
like queer people and that she thought all quhere people
should you know, should unlive themselves. And so that voice constantly,
especially when you're in such a place of like being
thirteen to eighteen, you're in such a developmental space in
your own mind and in your own head, it stays
with you. And so I've had to really, like in

(32:18):
those moments that I can hear her voice, have to
remind myself that that's not my voice, right, And so,
you know, I wanted to ask you, you know, in
this moment that we're talking about our inside and our
head voices, like, what does it mean for you to
cultivate a loving inner voice? And what challenges have you
experienced around that? Because I think it is easy to
look at you, who is someone who does it effortlessly?

(32:41):
And think, oh, Jeffrey, she got it. You know, she
got it. She good, she knows what she's doing. But
I'm sure that there's something that maybe you've said this.
This shit is hard, and so I would love to know,
like what you've had to do to make sure that
you could kind of take care of yourself in the
midst of cultivating that voice.

Speaker 4 (32:56):
You already demonstrated. It's a it's a a custodian of
your energy, deciding which voices are in your ear, who
you're going to spend time with. But also it's one
thing that annoys me, honestly, is that people can get
too focused on the individual healing, and that's really important,

(33:17):
but we also need society community healing. We've not dealt
with queer phobia throughout the ages, right the trauma coming
to visit us, and we've not dealt with all kinds
of traumas in just this country's history, let alone, you know,
the globes, and on the individual level, if one wants

(33:41):
to make it a practice, you got to start where
you are. I remember sitting on that set. This is
twenty sixteen, before you know who was elected the first time,
and I was sitting on the set of Newsmax, waiting
for the camera to turn one and the just saying
to myself that, you know, that kind voice from the monastery,

(34:02):
I love you, thank you. Let's go get vegan ice
cream after this. I'm glad you're trying this, you know,
and just the magic that can happen when you are
kind to yourself. Yeah, yeah, sorry, you know, I was
just going to share one more thing that I think

(34:24):
that I think you too, embody so well, you know,
it's doubly important. And I think the inner joy is
part of what really pisses people off.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
Oh god, yes, oh hell yeah.

Speaker 4 (34:42):
Dripping in shame and like hate self hating. You know
that that would be a different dynamic than I love myself.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
One thing I was thinking about and I was an aspect.
I was for the emotional. But John May, you're sharing
that your sisters said that I'm one because I like
it makes me said that everyone had to experience that
at all, Like, it's my heart hurts to you you
experienced that because like, being queer is the best thing

(35:11):
in the world.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
And it really is.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
You are like a queer possibility model for me, and
so it makes me sad to hear that, but also
makes you think like I have like a peer of
joy because like the voices I had, right, Like we
talked a lot about the voices are negative, but like
the voices aren't positive, like the possibility models of that too.
And I got emotional because this is so it's so
annoying and I don't know if but my brother is

(35:34):
sitting across me currently his happits, and so I don't
I don't feel like hear me. But he was the
first person I like in my feeling that I came
out to and like it could have been so bad, right,
It could have been like so bad. He could have
been like what the fuck you're you know you're insert
word here, right, but like mat me feel so safe
and cared for and like held in that moment and

(35:57):
so like that possibility model. Right, the voice in my
head went, being queer is when I was loving and
kind and beautiful, right, Like I've never felt scared to
be queer, even though like my parents are a huge
tune with it because the first person that one who
I trusted to share it with gave it so much love.
The voice in my head is always want to be
one of love and kindness and so like, I never

(36:19):
fear or feel some type of way about sharing my
queenness right like that in your voice is never going
to be a painful in your voice. And I and
I like emotionally thought because I was just like, oh
like and I also never would never have done shot
with him brother, either in that way, and just like
say that to him. And I don't know if he's
wrying or if he's just like his or he's just annoying?

Speaker 1 (36:40):
Is that the brother? Is that the brother who always
wants to be on the show and gets mad that
we had the.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
Show's mad he's not on the show.

Speaker 4 (36:47):
He didn't have.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
A behavior earlier about it too, recording the Bockdown, Brother, I.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
Know, listen, so I think it's funny, Hi brother, Yeah,
But I and.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
I had no intention of like like like not all
if I had whatsoever. It was very moment like like
maybe how to share it and if especially like to
share it with my brother who's right here. But I'm
not looking at him because I want to look at
his face.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
So you know, I know we still need to and
then we have a few more questions for you, Jeffrey.
But I was gonna say no, no, no, no. I was
gonna say, you know, I appreciate you having that emotion,
because again, we are sisters and we love each other,
and so we're very protective of each other, right, And
I think that that I feel that that's what that is,
you know, you wanting to protect me and and and

(37:40):
and I would say maybe twenty five year old Jonathan
would have been really upset and sharing that story with you,
and you know what would have been fuck her and
fuck her, and there would have been that moment for me.
But I think forty year old Jonathan, like I said,
forty year old Jonathan, has done so much work to
understand that it's not even you know, it's not even
a cliche of her. People hurt people, but it's like

(38:02):
who who has said something or has done something mean
to you to make you feel like you can't be
happy for someone else to be their authentic self. And
so that's where I go now. When people say and
do really mean things to me around my identity, my queerness,
my blackness, my fatness, all of those things, I look

(38:23):
at them and I go, baby, that's more about you
than that could ever be about me. And I think
that's the thing that makes me feel so happy to
be me now, because I can look at people and
just go, you're not happy, and I know she's not right.
I want to say her name so a bat. I
know she's not a happy person, and I don't want
to put her on blast because I know. I don't

(38:43):
know if my nieces or my nephew listen to this show,
because they're they're older, they're you know, they're in their
twenties and their thirties, and I know that they know
I have a book, right, but I will say, like,
I don't know if they listen to the show, so
I don't want to shame their mom. But what I
will say is that a person who is telling someone
at a ripe age of sixteen and seventeen that they
should hate themselves and that they should unlive themselves for

(39:06):
being something that you know, it's one what whatever you believe.
I genuinely look at that and go back to that
place of like, oh, she was really hurting at that time,
and I don't know what that hurt was. But again,
that hurt was trying to be passed, and that's what
those voices are. It's just hurt people literally trying to
get in the heads of other people. But yeah, yeah,

(39:28):
enough of my anya on.

Speaker 4 (39:29):
The it's really important for anybody listening. You pointed to
your head. It's like those voices are just like an
outside voice. Really yep, they function in the same way,
and their past hurts me so so important, you know, so.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
That so that that actually makes you think about like
a shift. The question the last for shan to ask
you because I know that, like you know, when we
when we like when we think of you, right, we
think about how kind you are in your response, right,
and like you're truly kind and like like you try
you like you just respond to people and even to us, right,
like you're seeing us where we're at. And you know,

(40:06):
the the question I was I wasn't asked before, was like,
what advice now you having someone who's struggling to beat
like to like beat those voices per se. But I
actually am curious to ask you what's advice you have
for people who are those hurt people who are becoming
those voices to others because I think because like I'm ready,

(40:28):
it's like you know, because I like I want to
dress the cause not the sentime, you know, like and
like the cause is like there is is there some
if you can go along with us in that shift, Jeffrey, I've.

Speaker 4 (40:43):
Of course I have a question for you to put
you on the spot. I feel no, this will be
revealing of me. Actually, I feel like you didn't want
to look at your brother because it's so difficult sometimes
to be fully seen.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
By some Well yeah, well, yes, yes, you're correct. I
did not. I did not want to look in him
because I don't. It's it's nothing, it's not that I
like being seen. It's just like it's like me and
him are also this is that this is like like
we get super deep with each other. But other than
that's just like not what we do.

Speaker 5 (41:15):
And and honestly it's also he's a voidant of emotion
sometimes so and I like, right aye him as I said,
he's a scorpio and it shows really shows, and so
I want to make camal But I'm staring at him
as I'm like, I love.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
You so much. If I if i'm if I haven't
huged this man, He's like, why are you touching me? Girl? No? No, no,
no no, not I mean but but I mean but
also like also I think to your pointing is hard
like he is someone that like like I like respect
will like will made an emotional again just for the

(41:53):
sake of the conversation. If on looking him as I
say this, you want the people you are the people
that respect the most in the world that I I'm
so grateful that having your brother, which I tell you
all the time, But if the wrong people are respect
most of the world, you're people whose opinion I care
the most about in the world. And I feel continually
blessed to have you in my life and get to

(42:15):
call you myselbing too shad with the world. It means
a lot, And it's what you show up for me
as well, whenever I asks you to for every event
that we have or everything that we do, like you're
always there and it means the most that like that.
Like you could like like maybe your audiences I want
to be hug but you show up.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
And that's like if she is San Diego, she's gonna
be here. Got the riches.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
Who did not show up. It means a lot that
you with the really showed that parent with shows shows up.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
Yeah, Yeah, I love that and I would say the
same for you too. Is the way I feel in
this moment right the ways that I don't ever feel like,
I don't feel like. And again, this is not a
slight to my family, my mom, my brother. They have
their own lives, they have stuff that are going on.
They can't always show up for me the way I
want them to, and so it's nice to be. You know,

(43:09):
I've seen you, Jeffrey, show up for me in the
entertainment industry when I felt like nobody was trying to
help me right or to get me where I wanted
to go, you know, Joho, like you showed up for
me when I have this vision for this show, like
you could have easily said, nah, girl, I don't know
what that is, but I'm not doing that, you know,
and you see jump right in. He jumped right in,

(43:31):
and you helped a dream come true for me in
a way that I don't think.

Speaker 4 (43:36):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
I don't think that this show could be what it
is if it wasn't for your dynamic and for the
fun that we have when we're in the mic, when
we're on the mic, both online and off. And I
think that's also one thing I want to also note too,
like in person energy is so different than online energy
and our energy is never off. Whenever we're together, it's better.

(43:57):
But I will say even just being on the mid together,
we were like two, you know, good jewis, haven't haven't
and so it's just love, it's and so you know,
I I will say that, like you too, Embody, what
beautiful voices are needed in this moment. And I'm just
I'm grateful I get to share it. I'm so grateful
for anybody who listens to this episode. It is a

(44:19):
blessing to be able to know that these two people
exist in my life and in the world.

Speaker 4 (44:24):
I was crying, yes, and both of you demonstrating clear communication.
Tell the people you love, you love them.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
Life is short, Yeah it still is, and show and
so is you know, and and and and so is
you know. Just you say life is short, but just
moments to to like be And that's like that was
the thing for me, Like I told like my my
husband asked me, he was like, are you really going
to go down to San Diego on Sunday? And I'm like, yes,
i am because I recognize, like I know how much

(44:57):
work you're putting into Black Pride, and I'm like the
last two years I've been on the road and I
wasn't able to make it, and so I'm like, I
want to be there to celebrate something that my sister
has worked so hard on. And I think that's really
what you know, showing up for each other looks like,
is recognizing that it's not just showing up for the show.
It's not showing it's showing up for each other in

(45:17):
each other's lives. And that that's also what the show
has done for me, is it's really allowed me to
have like a little sister who's coming in to show
up for me as much as I want to show
up for them. And so, yeah, this is just this
is just such a beautiful episode and I'm so glad
we got to sit down and have this more intellectual

(45:38):
conversation with you, Jeffrey.

Speaker 4 (45:40):
You made my point though what I was gonna say,
because you asked me, what what would I say to those,
you know, people who have hated in their hearts? And
you know, the answer is we're going to focus on
love over here.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
Yeah, yep.

Speaker 4 (45:54):
And now they might get upset, they might get jealous,
they might get you know, they might have lots of reactions.
But so so I guess the real answer is I
don't have much to say to them, but if they
want to come over here, we can talk, you know.
And some day they may they may not. But just
the luck of family, the luck of community having one,

(46:15):
and the beauty of having wonderful people in your life.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
Yeah, and I like you. Yes, I'm just I could
never I can't say it. So lucky, so lucky, And
i'd even I said that in a post. I said,
you know, it's really easy, even in this moment, you know.
I mean, you feel like, oh god, I don't have
any good friends, I don't have any people really love
me or really care about me. And then you just
take a step back and you're like, actually.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
You do.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
You do? And I feel it day in and day out.
There are ways that the world is showing me that
I'm very well taken care of. So I just love
y'all to the moon. But with that being said, now
that we have told you to tell that terrible ass
voice in your head to stf you, We're gonna take
a break and come back with what's going on in

(47:04):
the world of pop culture. Honey, we will be back
quicker than me in a buffet line. How you doing?

Speaker 2 (47:19):
And we are black family. So you all may or
may not know there have been multiple people have influenced
and fame who went online and the podcasts and slow
it's a little too much information. While we will be
pretty much time shaming them or anyone for that matter,
on the show, thinking about what our guilty pleasures are

(47:42):
and how we all have them in some ways but
are often maybe too skinned to share them. That being
said this week is what's happened. We can't page our
favor of our favorite love's book and talk about the
things that we might have a little shame in admitting.
What's that funny? Then Jeffrey and then John, No, I

(48:08):
set this up, you know, like somebody who has a
lot of shame and guilty pleasures, But like I'll be
honest and say, I really don't know, Like I don't like,
I really don't know if I can call them guilty,
like to be pretty much a ten toes down person
like and like not that don't care what people think,
like I really do. But I think I could say, okay, no,

(48:31):
what I'll say I'll say here I say loud and proud.
I still be I still be doing my I still
be doing my my my ordition Target. I don't know
where else I can get where. I don't know where
else I can get my pattern beauty, my my my
pattern beauty supplies for my hair. It's a shame, shame.

(48:54):
But I mean also I wish people some people. I
wish people were also informed because people we're taking Target
for rolling back DA policies, but they actually were shipped
to the policies. They change how they present them, which
is real that the policies actually ever change. And so
I'm like, I maybe we can look at it, we
can take and target this a bit more. Now, Yeah, exactly.
Now if this was uncanceled, so be it. I understand that,

(49:18):
you know, you know, I mean one thing, if I'm
being every day, but like once a month, I will
I will order my like like I think I get
my shampoo because it's Target fine for for killing hair girls.
It's not easy to find to find your thing. When
you find your thing, you like, you can't let it go?

Speaker 1 (49:40):
Amen?

Speaker 2 (49:40):
What is that? You ball headed demon?

Speaker 1 (49:46):
What about you? Jeffrey? Wait?

Speaker 4 (49:50):
I want to hear what he said?

Speaker 1 (49:51):
What did he think?

Speaker 2 (49:53):
He said? He said, he too sometimes goes to Target
because of the Black Homes Living brand that he loves
her clothes, which is also very fair, very fair. I
thank you for letting us have a ghost fourth guest
in the.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
Ghost fourth Guest. I love it.

Speaker 4 (50:13):
I thought it was great. Yes, the process of guilt
is over. We're done. We're done with especially she's she's,
she's gone. And I was thinking about this, mostly gosh

(50:33):
in a spiritual context, that we what do I have
difficulty sharing? You know this too, I mean both of you,
Like when your life is on the podcast and on
the internet, what is left over. I've made videos about,
you know, being a survivor of sexual assault, and I've
made videos about my parents and my childhood and you

(50:56):
know what, I'll tell you so thing that never really
made a video about. And it's gonna sound cheesy, but
I have to say it. I had to learn to
let my husband's love in mm hmm. And it was
a multi year process to be able to even I
feel that I pushed him away for a good, good,

(51:17):
long time and blessed him. He's stuck around.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
But it's so real. It's it's it's like you earlier.
It's hard to be seen and it's hard to like
let yourself be seen and feel seen, yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
And and and to feel like you're deserving of love
or to even be speaking of that. My husband's calling
me right now. You want to answer it live nobody
for those of you that is, you know my husband's name.
He's also Jonathan. So I will call him back after

(51:51):
this is done. But he will be very like, don't
put me on the show or I when I'm recording.
He doesn't ever want to be in the the he
he hates it. He hates it.

Speaker 4 (51:59):
But but wait, you're John and Jonathan.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Yes, I do go by John. He goes by Jonathan.

Speaker 4 (52:04):
And because wee and Jeffrey.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
Okay, yes, yes, yeah.

Speaker 4 (52:07):
And so it's like not exactly the same, but.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
Yeah, yeah, so saying John and Jonathan, but we both
are both of our names are Jonathan. But he would
have a fit if I put him on the air.
But I will say all of that to say, like
feeling feeling like you're not Sometimes you do feel guilt
about being loved and being cared for or being given
the love that I mean, sometimes I feel really bad
when I see like friends saying, oh it's so hard
for me to find a good mate. Then I start

(52:32):
to feel guilty because I feel like I have a
partner and you know, and you don't know what to
say or how to how to engage that. So I
feel that well, but for me, mine's very simple, you know.
I know we've been screaming boycotts since twenty twenty three
of a lot of different places. I eat Starbucks, We
talked about McDonald's, We talked about Amazon, we talked about Domino's.

(52:52):
My God, baby, at this point, where can you shot?
But I will say this, I have learned that I
just I enjoy ordering things from Amazon, and sometimes I
take them back just just just see if it's good.
Maybe sometimes just like I want to know if that's
a really good product, and I'll order it, just order,
And I know that I'm feeding into the problem, but

(53:13):
I just I am that girl that's like, hmmm, I
wonder if it's actually gonna do what it says it does.
And then sometimes I just send it back. So that
is one of my you know, my guilty pleasures. You know,
I just really get a pleasure out of order and stuff,
and you know, and and then you know, changing my
mind like nah, I don't I don't want this anymore,
nar Nar. You know, I get joy in that. But

(53:33):
I will also say to you know, if you're gonna
spill your beans about Target, I'll spill my beans. I
still and y'all know that I love McDonald's. McDonald's is
one of my That is my my safe place. It's
a safe place for me. The number six, the number,
the number six, the kalale fish, Oh with the orange okay.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Oh began this episode saying that we have integrity and
Jeffy will leave like like this.

Speaker 4 (54:04):
This is what I meant, though.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
She's gonna write a whole book about us.

Speaker 4 (54:12):
It's got like the little pickle chop pickles and stuff.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
So that's the sauce, yes, and that Tata sauce is
just so you know the way to order it. Let
me let me, let me let me walk you down. Okay,
you go through the drive through, or when you go
into the space, if you get to the machine, you
start pushing out in buttons. What you do is you

(54:39):
ask for extra Tata sauce and a extra slice of
a cheese and then you get fresh fries. But see,
this is the thing. I like my McDonald fries. They
need to be under that light for at least a
minute and thirty second, it's.

Speaker 4 (55:01):
Not fresh fresh.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
No, I don't want no fresh. I want my fries
to be a little lamp. I don't want them cold,
but I want them to be They've they've been held, Yes,
they've been.

Speaker 6 (55:16):
Have they have they talk about Okay, okay, I'm vegan,
but you know I love everything.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
Is that beans vegan?

Speaker 4 (55:27):
Their beans are vegan. One of them is it's the pinto.

Speaker 1 (55:30):
I think panto beans.

Speaker 4 (55:32):
Okay, yeah, they're so good. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
Are you a Chipotle girl?

Speaker 4 (55:37):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (55:37):
Yeah, yeah, young and so long. I would walk. I
just think I think I would go if they were convenient.
I think they're inconvenient.

Speaker 4 (55:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
Otherwise I go like invenient. It's it's never a quick
line and the parking is always challenging.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
But that part, that part, especially the Chipotle by the
Wanner Brothers location. I will say that there is a
Chipotle and Bourbon Chips.

Speaker 4 (56:05):
Yes, the chips.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
Have you tried the new sauces?

Speaker 3 (56:11):
No?

Speaker 1 (56:11):
What is the new I don't know, girl, I've been
seeing it all over TikTok. It's the thing. There's a
new sauce that they have, the new so McDonald's brought
back the wraps and I know Chipotle has the new sauce.
I don't know what it is.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
They bring about the snack wraps and I will say
so just this just said also be more more, have
more integrity. Because I had not been to McDonald's in years,
and I went I went on roach it this weekend
and it was it was like it was like right
and by me love my friends and my friend was like, ok, McDonald's.
I was like, sugar whatever, and I was like the

(56:43):
set or love a snackrop But my friend, my friend
had pasted in the back seat the chicken nuggets and
and ted me my and my friend the passenger seat
and my friend and my friend was like, not him
exposing us as McDonalds. Yes, And I was like and

(57:04):
I was like, it's not it's no, I never, girl,
it's now I never. And he and my friend and
my friend maintains that he's not he's not not a modonzator.
But did he know did you know his exact order? Quickly? Yes, listen, Yeah, it's.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
The same people who said you have to Starbucks. Would
you have known, girl, it's the same Oh, I don't
go to Starbucks. And I'm like, but I'm in line.

Speaker 6 (57:25):
But you know, it's it's okay, but you can order
really quickly, if you can go to if you can't
go to No Chase, where can you go?

Speaker 1 (57:37):
Where can you send me and my home girl.

Speaker 4 (57:39):
I'm just saying Taco Bell three times a week.

Speaker 6 (57:44):
Bell from the right people speaking my language.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
We have a.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
Week seven. We broke down. Yes, I remember, we have
a whole takedown of what Taco Bell means to us. Yes,
and I'm gonna tell you right now that Dorito's locals taco.
If there's one thing in this world that has saved
my life, is that fucking taco But.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
You have said you were vegan and I was like,
but Taco Bell has more options for you, babe, they do.
They need to do it. TV is my place to be, Okay, Yeah,
none that we have exposed are to do pleasures and
might be ducking around the concepts. We said there's a
never for shamer go in this house. Okay, So we
have pluing to all, but you gotta take one more

(58:28):
break and go back with your favorite segment. This man,
No Man is more in just a second.

Speaker 4 (58:41):
The world can be such a confusing, conflicted, chaotic place.
So much is outside of our control. It's understandable if
you feel lost, alone, estranged, sometimes even from yourself, but
it doesn't have to be so overwhelming. And I'm here
to show you that the solution is right in front

(59:02):
of you, and in fact, the solution is within you.
So while I am a best selling author and an
activist who fights for everyone to have fundamental rights, and
while I am a social media creator with over three
billion views, what I want most with this podcast is

(59:22):
to be a resource for you. So tune in to
InterVoice with Jeffrey Marsh every Monday wherever you get your podcasts.
I cannot wait to meet you.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
All right, y'all, So me and my girls are back
where my girls at front and front to back. What
did you feel in that? Yes? I can't see too
much more because we'll get sued. But with that being said,
I'm going to jump into our yes ma'am and our
nomn Pam girl for this week. My yes ma'am, I
wanted to go ahead and say so in the in

(59:57):
so not in the political views of Snoop you know what,
I'm not gonna even say, Snoop Dogg. Who was it
that said that? Nisi nash Bet She says shout out
to me. So I'm gonna use her shout out to me.
I'm going to yes ma'am myself, me and my book
for those that don't know. So, so let me let
me walk you down why I'm yes maamming me. So

(01:00:18):
I have talked a lot about my book, and I
know y'all probably are sick of it. But what I
will say is this, I've spent a lot of time
in airports, right, I spent a lot of time in airports,
and this year I've spent more time in the airports
than I can count, because obviously it was on a
book tour and so being back and forth between here

(01:00:40):
and there and everywhere I was in. You know, I
was in a lot of different airports. For those who
are not in airports a lot, you will know that
one of the pinnacle places to be in an airport
is a bookstore. Most most airports have bookstores. Whether they
be big or small, they still have one. And so
one of the things that I wanted more than anything
when I first started talking about, you know, writing a

(01:01:00):
book or putting a book out, was you know, so
this is the thing that kind of keep in mind
when you go into a airport and you see all
of those books on display. That is not something that
just happens. When you write a book. Most of the
time your publisher has to pay for that book to
be in there, or you have to pay for that

(01:01:22):
book to be in there. It's very very rare that
if you see a book in an airport bookstore that
it just happens to be there. Someone just literally someone
has to make that happen. And so recently someone sent
me a photo in a video of my book on
display in the Minneapolis airport.

Speaker 4 (01:01:40):
Yeah this MSP.

Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
Yeah, blew my mind. Blew my mind because it is
such a big deal because I have not like no
other I've gone into places and like, hey's my book,
and they're like, no, you need me, I want to
contact your publisher. I okay, find whatever. But to know
that somebody at Minneapolis either heard about my book and
then decided to put it on display there, or that
somebody came in and requested it and then they went

(01:02:03):
back and said we need to order it, it just
blows my mind. And so it's just a really big
deal for me. And it's huge because, like I said,
books don't just pop up, but it's just you know,
and the same with Target, the same with any big
box store. There's so much crap that goes into getting
your book into a space, and so just to know
that it's living there and that people can see it,
and that there's a beautiful author's note with it, it

(01:02:24):
just makes my heart so happy. So go to the.

Speaker 4 (01:02:26):
Airport, go to that can. I ask you, did you
stand there and sign copies? Because you should have.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
Well, the thing is, I didn't. So when I when
I went to Minneapolis, my book was not there.

Speaker 4 (01:02:38):
Oh someone else later?

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
So yeah, so later I don't. And again I don't
know how. The I don't know how because again I
didn't really I didn't even speak to anybody in there.
I just asked them if they had my book. That's
the thing I do. I never go in and be like, hey,
I'm an author, you know my book should be here.
I usually just go and say, hey, do you have
my book? Because if you do, I don't mind signing it, right,
And so that's what I did. I went in and

(01:02:59):
I just simply said, hey, do you have my book?
And the guy was like, no, you need to contact
our people and tell us about it, and So the
only thing that I can put in my mind was
because Minneapolis was my last stop. The only thing I
can think of is that I went in asked him
if they had my book. He got he, she or they,
I don't know their pronounce whoever it was. The person
that was in the back. They must have got curious

(01:03:21):
enough to figure out what my book was and went
and looked for it, read it, and then made the
recommendation for them to put the book inside the store.
So it's the only thing I can think of because
that's literally the only way it could happen. But either way,
I'm just I'm grateful that it's there, and it just
it warmed my tubby little heart. So that's my yes, ma'am, long,

(01:03:41):
my long, witty yess ma'am, My no, ma'm pam. I'm
just going to read it off the script because I
want to make sure that I don't step over my
words and give myself in trouble in the process of
saying it. I'm just going to go out on a
limb and say, is that I think it's really fucked
up what we're doing to Laverne Cox for sharing her truth.
And I'm gonna say this Now, I know that people
could come back and say, girl, y'all had a whole

(01:04:02):
segment where you were talking about Laverne Cox's not supposed
to say what she needed to say. Yes, I still
stand by that. I think it is very imperative that
something stay in the group chat. I think what she
shared could have stayed in the group chat. I'm gonna
stand by that right. The thing that I'm having an
issue with is the way that I feel like people

(01:04:22):
are dragging her in a very unnecessary way, as if
people feel like they're on a higher horse than her,
and and and and this is my thing. If I
was to if I had the power to go in
and dig up your bones, I am pretty sure that
you have said and you have done some shit in
your past that if the world saw it on a

(01:04:43):
public scale, would say, ooh that's a bad Yeah, you're
not a good person. And so I just like it
just it really really makes me very I just think
it's in savory what we do to black specifically black
where people when they when they exist in truth, and
and I think that we're acting. I'll say this, I

(01:05:04):
think a lot of activists, specifically a lot of activists
a lot of black activists tend to believe that because
they've been in an activist space for so long, that
they're above reproach, because they have a platform, and because
they they think that they have the right and it's
just it's ugly. To me, it's just really ugly. And
so this is this is no shade to my girls

(01:05:25):
that were on you know, the last podcast. We all
know what I'm referencing. It's no shade to them. What
I'm what I am shading is how we oftentimes don't
critique things with empathy. That's that's where my heart is.
There is a way for us to talk about what
we've done and what we can do is like, so say,
if someone was to come to me and say, John,

(01:05:46):
you're fucked up for going to McDonald's, and you're fucked
up for going to you know, to Target, or you're
fucked up for ordering from Amazon, I'm not gonna want
to engage that conversation with you because you're coming at
me sideways. But if you came to me and you said,
you know what, John, I really want you to think
about this thing, right, you know, I'm gonna use this
example on the mic and then I'm gonna pass it

(01:06:08):
a friend of mine. What were we going back and
forth about? And I had to check them and I
had to say, I need you because you're in your
privilege right now. This friend will know what we're talking about.
That I totally forgot the context of what we were
talking about. But it was like I lovingly had to call, oh,
it was about the jeans. That's what it was about,
old girl and her jeans. And I had a friend

(01:06:29):
who is a listener to this show. I'm not gonna
name them. They ultimately were saying that a lot of
people were just they didn't see it the way that
we saw it. And I lovingly had to go to
them and say, baby, I just need you to look
at it from this point, and they said, you know what,
I need to think about that. Thank you for saying
it that way, because one it was not only was
it warm, but it also made me think in a

(01:06:51):
very loving way about you and the way you see
things in the world. And we're still cool, and so
that's my thing, Like, we need this is not the
time for us to be dragging people. This is not
the time for us to be ugly with one another.
We already see it enough and I'm just sick of
seeing it. I'm sick of seeing people looking for looking
for a moment like girl, I'm sorry, I'm just over it.

(01:07:15):
I'm really open. So what are your thoughts, Jeffrey, what
are your yes ma'am's in your no ma'am PAMs? For
this week?

Speaker 4 (01:07:22):
First I will tell you my yes ma'am is both
of you. But we're going to get to that in
a second. I someone sent me, like early early early
twenty twenty sixteen, early in the publishing of my book,
a picture of it in the airport, and like that
is when your book is like real, You're like, oh,
I'm real, it really happened. Someone's going to be on

(01:07:47):
an airplane and read it. You know. It just is
a totally different level. So I'm so I love that story.
The two of you changed my life. I told you, Jonathan,
that you after I'm forty eight years old and after
decades of feeling like I couldn't I don't know if

(01:08:11):
you need me to or want me to say more,
decades of feeling like I didn't deserve having my nails done,
that I couldn't go to a salon and be my
queer ass yourself and sit in the chair, but also
like adorn myself that way, worship myself. Yeah, I had

(01:08:32):
to be like rushing around doing my own nails. You know,
I'm terrible at it. And like I went from seeing
you and I don't know if you would say this,
seeing you worship yourself like that be yeah, a gesture

(01:08:57):
of respect for who you who are as a human being.
And I was like, I need to go. So I
picked this color for you.

Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
This this hot pink, hot pink.

Speaker 4 (01:09:10):
It but both of you being on the mic, I
happen to know something that goes along with that some
of the pressure that goes with that. Yeah, so thank you,
And you don't have to you don't have to respond,
but some of the choices you have to make between
your dreams or telling the truth. And you both inspire

(01:09:33):
me all the time about that. I'm going to second yours. Mostly,
I find it really difficult to be around people. This
is this is my nomam pam. I find it really
difficult to be around people who are not working on

(01:09:56):
themselves to an extent that they become a My teacher
at the monastery called it a social relief that all
of their stuff needs to become your stuff. And you
see that with people tearing each other down.

Speaker 1 (01:10:15):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (01:10:15):
To be specific, yep, it's and in twenty twenty five,
I think we're not We're not in this space where
that needs to be the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
It's just it's so ugly. It's so ugly. And again,
I'm not trying to critique anybody who was on that panel,
because I think everyone had great intentions going into that panel,
or have written the articles or have made lives or comments.
But I think it's like, we've got to be careful
about giving That's that's the thing I think for me,

(01:10:50):
in my heart of hearts, what I'm what I'm saying
is we've got to be so fucking careful right now
about giving the right ammunition to come after us for stuff.
Because they're watching us, and they're studying the lexicon. They're
studying how we talk to each other, they study how
we interact with each other, they study what we do
and what we don't do for one another. And I

(01:11:12):
keep saying, the only reason why the Right continues to
keep getting more powerful, it's because they are so intentional
about not breaking each other down. They are so even
when they know it's fucking wrong, they still stand tintoes
down by supporting each other.

Speaker 4 (01:11:30):
I mean, like the one hundred things that our president
has done they could have said something about.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
But they don't. They that's the reason why they stay
so so jailed and so connected. And so I know
I could go on about this for hours, but I'm
just going like, that's what scares me about watching these
kind of things, and that and and and seeing these
kind of things live in the ethos, right. It's it's
knowing that somebody from over there can come in hear

(01:11:59):
these conversations, take them and run with them. And it's
not saying we shouldn't have them. But I'm going I
don't know if some of the discourse that we need
to be having a square people needs to be public.
Mm yeah, especially right now.

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
I think it's an interesting point.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
I don't know, I'll be quiet. Go ahead, go ahead, Joho.

Speaker 4 (01:12:21):
Yes, go ahead, Jeffin.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
Do you want to respond?

Speaker 4 (01:12:25):
Well, no, I just wanted to second that, I mean,
very important point. And I think you're acknowledging have care,
care about the movement, have opinions, have things to say. Great,
But it's when it goes into tearing other people down.
That's really a difficult spot.

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
I can't do it.

Speaker 4 (01:12:45):
It's really a difficult spot.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
Yeah, I think I think I'm a different SOLICI that
that thought John myself of like of like, for the
sake of protecting the query to transmitting at large, is
it fruitful that hot conversations in public or keep the
mind or keep them in my private spaces for the
sake of people not using us feeling against us. I

(01:13:11):
think it's a very real question. I don't know how
I feel about that. By visual questions that I think
my you know, my my smpam in that vein, like
is Toliver and for sitting at their own table, because
this is what I.

Speaker 7 (01:13:22):
Will say, that is I think with the two parbout
integrity and accountability, like that is a demonstration of saying
like I know that people were living with what I said,
and I have been invited by my peers to talk
about it in a public way, and like like I

(01:13:45):
don't know who watched it, but I watched the whole thing,
and like, you know, I have a lot of thoughts about.

Speaker 2 (01:13:50):
It, and you know, a lot about it, things with
things I don't things I don't agree with and also
why not like I'm not I'm not transfilming, so like
like my like my experience is also like like I
like my experience is also so vast and different and
so like in some caase I don't want to have
an opinion on it, but I can say, though, is
that like for someone to sit there and take you know,

(01:14:12):
two hours like of like folks grilling you, question you
question your practice, you have questioning what like like question
like maybe like what like what like what like what
values may or not what values may may not have
you know, like question the choices you make. It's not easy,
and I know that many people could not do that,
like I like, I have myself a mason who can

(01:14:34):
who can take feedback, And I'm like and I think
I can do that, but I don't know question I was,
I know I can do it for like for like
that long like that's a long time to sit there.

Speaker 1 (01:14:42):
And so yes, thirty minutes you have thirty minutes. Question
that's all you've got.

Speaker 2 (01:14:49):
So like yes, Verne for sitting at that table and
saying I will sit here and listen the right like
I've listened to what people have said to me. Social media,
but like, but I will listen to you, my so stairs,
I'll listen to you, especially about this, Like I thought
that was just so powerful and like what a great
way to demonstrate, to demonstrate, like to demonstrate like your

(01:15:09):
like your your own ethic and your own and your
own like your own like world compass in that way.
So I really really just a pod and so so
impressed by every doing that. My nomam pam is the
Instagram maps. Don't know if you all notice or saw
Instagram dropped the new feature so you can people can
track your location. So I would just say, first of all,

(01:15:33):
I did the first girl, so calm down. Sion of all,
why would I want this? Why? Why would I want
Why would I want people to know where I am
that just does not know?

Speaker 1 (01:15:44):
Why?

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
Why why am I story geo tagged? Why am I
geotag I? And I hope who are listening to this,
Like I pray like I want to have a lesson
on privacy, lesson on security. M hm. I have a
lot of people and find my friends like I do

(01:16:05):
my like like like to my friends whom I love,
I want you, I want you also know where I'm
at if I'm across am I if I'm if I'm
in France or something, I'm being taken calling a pole
girl like like like know where I'm at. What I
don't need is.

Speaker 8 (01:16:20):
Like like like it's the person that I don't know
very well to be able to be able to track
me like that, Like like like like protect yourself, like
we actually deserve privacy and like tragically, something should be
private where you are at all times.

Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
Does not need to be on Instagram or in so
social media platform, right, like like like you could send
to be we can all send to be a bit
more secure with ourselves. We deserve privacy, we we we
deserve security. Like I'd like that. When I saw that
future come out, I was like disable to disable, to disable,
And that to me was just it was so uncomfortable

(01:16:54):
that like that that would even be a feature that
would be rolled out. I mean and also like when's
when Snapchat? Sorry that I do have to be a Snapchat.
I don't even have stap cho anymore. You know, I
probably won't get I probably won't get to be Instagram
to be quite honest. And so I'm like and so
I'm like this just is but like this isn't a
go like, this is not a feature that I think
is good for anybody. If you if you friends one

(01:17:15):
where you are, you'll tell them a share location with
them I find my friend or like or whatever. The
android version is, Like there's an Android version of the two.
You do not need You do not need to be
sharing electation on Instagram mapps just because like who else
has ass to that right, like like like it's you
and like Instagram and stuff. I'm like, I'm not gonna
be conspiracy theorists of like of the of surveillance. But

(01:17:36):
I don't need to give like to think like yet
another big big corporation, like access to my to my
like to where I am at all times. Either. That
just does not feel good to me. And so I
really hope that folks take care of themselves and protect
their protect their privacy by disabling that future and Instagram.

(01:17:56):
I really hope that you decide to mab roll a
boat that feature, because that was not a feature that need.

Speaker 1 (01:18:00):
To Nobody likes it, nobody needs it. I said, the
way my precise location off so quick, I said, oh, y'all,
never go No, nobody will know where I am at
this point.

Speaker 2 (01:18:13):
Like I posted a story. I put the story of
Diamad's geo tagget and so like my my frim message
was saying, hey girls, you know like like you're on
the mounts with your story. I was like, oh my god,
like I did not, like, why would I ever want that?
Why should you know where I am off my story, bitch?
I would target.

Speaker 1 (01:18:31):
I would in the station ye where I'm out and
the thing.

Speaker 2 (01:18:36):
Because I am mindful. Usually when I post stories, I
post stories of places after I leave. I often don't
post what I'm there, and like not like I'm somebody,
but because like just because I just don't ever be
an inspicial situation where like someone like like we are
public people who I know face threats to our lives,
like I get threats more and more often than then

(01:18:59):
when I want to share, so like I do, like
I do not need someone to come up where I
am and attalk me and my loved one. It's like,
I'm not I'm not trying that, And so like why
is my storage you are talk no no, no, how
a chot for me?

Speaker 1 (01:19:14):
If you not for me, babes, and if you really
want to be in community, And I'm also say this
on the mic, because this is just who I am.
I'm going back to your your your your thing earlier
about trying Jesus, don't try me. I was raised in
a specific particular part of Sam Bernardino. I can and

(01:19:34):
I will fight if I have to. So I'm letting
the dolls know that if you do so, happen to
see my precise location and you think you want to.

Speaker 2 (01:19:44):
Run up you want to pull up on a bitch.

Speaker 1 (01:19:46):
Oh, I can't guarantee you that you may make it home.
I'm just letting you know you can try it. I
tell people all the time, if you show up, I
might show out. I'm just gonna let you know that
I'm a girl who could take you will find out.
I might be dapper and pretty and I may have
nails on, but I am still a cis gender man

(01:20:09):
in this body who has had to fight their whole
entire life. I will whoop your ass. So I'm letting
you know. Don't let the don't let Instagram have you
feel like you could just run up on me. I'm
telling you that right now, so very much that. But anyway,
did we want to respond? Did the church gotta respond? Okay?
I just want to want to make sure the church,

(01:20:31):
the church with so run up, get done up. Please
send us your thoughts, your feedback and emails to Blackfetfifpod
at gmail dot com. You can also send us your
thoughts via social medias by interacting with our post on
Instagram and blue Sky and threads and TikTok and all
the other places where you can use or handle at
Black Fatfempod. With that being said, Jeffrey, where can the

(01:20:54):
dogs find you?

Speaker 4 (01:20:56):
Oh? The website, jeffreymarsh dot com, TikTok, Instagram, all those,
all the million YouTube Oh my podcast is in your voice. Yes,
come listen, join the community. You feel like listening. Those
people are your friends, That's what it's like listening to you.

Speaker 1 (01:21:14):
So yeah, it's just it's such a beauty.

Speaker 4 (01:21:16):
Yes, same thing, you know, I mean so much.

Speaker 1 (01:21:20):
I'm always like listening being like, oh my god, my
friend is just like I mean, the Buddhist thing. I'm like, okay,
that makes sense. But sometimes you say things and I'm like,
I never thought about this ship. So yeah, I'm like
sometimes I'm like, oh god, I didn't even think about there.
So free therapy, So head over there and listen to
that podcast. Joe, Where can the dolls find you?

Speaker 2 (01:21:42):
Love? Of course my loves you know, find me at
Jojo Dann's across all socials. If not that my website
Johndales dot calm. I's not there, you will. You may
see my mug shot somewhere in the streets of San
Diego and hopefully, hopefully you won't. So if not there,
you will find me having a mental bee. I'm probably
probably have some coffee shops somewhere, but where's Yes, she

(01:22:15):
needs it, he needs some.

Speaker 1 (01:22:17):
That's for me, she says, some having a mental bee,
trying to numb myself with Tostito's case so and kettle.
Just girl, that sounds like you're gonna be in somebody's bathroom.
My god. But yes, but what a moment, What a moment? Yeah, girl,
because that case chip ship, that case case. She don't

(01:22:39):
love me.

Speaker 2 (01:22:40):
She don't love me like that, she don't love that
I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:22:45):
Love me like that. I'll be sick. But as for
me and mine, you can find me down to the
w W dot doctor John paul dot com. You can
find me on social also by using the same handle
at doctor John Paul. Like I've been telling a lot
of people because people are like, oh, they know you
were back on Twitter. I'm not back on Twitter. I'm
not back on X. I only have that act to
make sure that nobody else can get it.

Speaker 4 (01:23:07):
Oh so they thought you were and you.

Speaker 1 (01:23:09):
Literally think that I'm using it and I'm like, absolutely not.
I only have it so no one else can take it.
But with that being said, if you really want to
engage with me, head over to threads, head over to TikTok,
head over to Instagram. Those are the places that I
beat and the places that I want to stay. Also,
I did want to say, I know we talked about
it and my yes, ma'am. If you see my book
in an airport, let me know. Please tag me. Please
let me know if you see it, if you see

(01:23:30):
it out in the wild, if you see it anywhere.
I just love knowing that she's out there still, you know,
doing her big one, even you know, three or four
months into being released. So with that, please just yeah,
feel free to tag me.

Speaker 4 (01:23:41):
I have multiple copies.

Speaker 1 (01:23:43):
Oh, I know that's why you.

Speaker 4 (01:23:45):
I have the one you sent me, but then I
also have my.

Speaker 1 (01:23:46):
Own, thank you baby. And then also make sure you
watch my spot ABC our America Who I Am Meant
to Be. You can watch that on ABC News or
you can watch that on Hulu. But that being said,
we want to thank our Bei Wang, our super producer
Bai Wang for handling all the logistics and everyone over
at I Heard who keeps the show up and running.
We also want to shout out our wonderful editor. We

(01:24:08):
do it at the top of our show, but we
also like doing it at the bottom too. Ho you
doing because him, we would have no audio or no
visual tubes. If you go over to YouTube if you
want to see us be foolish, you can watch our
show for free over at YouTube. And yeah, I know
people who watch it and have said that they love

(01:24:29):
that there's a visual element to the show. So you
can listen to us on Apple Podcasts, or you can
go over to YouTube and watch our show. This has
been another one. Stay black Fat, Simon fabulous. Remember what joho?

Speaker 2 (01:24:41):
We may not be a cup of tea girl, but
ying someone us you can find the right key.

Speaker 1 (01:24:47):
Hello, Yeah, you can't find a note if your throat
is dry, you can't. You just can't find a note
and you be sating. You sound like a shanti. My god,
have a great one. I love us for real, bne
n

Speaker 2 (01:25:15):
H

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