June 10, 2025 • 73 mins
This week your BFF's kick it with therapist & healer Emely Rumble to talk discuss why literature can be healing and why it's so important to jot down your story. We also discuss east coast/west coast vibes and scream, "F*** ICE" from the top of our lungs.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Black Fat Fem Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
and Doctor John Paul LLC.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the blackfets and
Podcast where all the intersections of a dy a celebrated.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
I am one of your hosts, John also known as.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Doctor John Paul, And yes, I know that we will
be talking about NYC a little bit later in this episode,
but I just wanted to go on record and say
fuck pat La Pone and that's with a capital F.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
You know, I've been following the mess I know I'm
a little late.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
You know.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
I know I'm a little late.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
To the conversation because a lot of the girls have
already read her down and read her for filth. But
I definitely just wanted to say that. I also, I
too wanted to get my good fuck you in, and
mainly not necessarily for her career. I think moretheless, what
I want to say fuck you to is I want
(00:54):
to say this, she could kick rock with orthopedic shoes,
because I have a very have a problem with this
idea that there are a lot of white people in
the industry who just ultimately feel the need to always
chime in on stuff they ain't got no business chiming
in on speaking about other people's careers, and it's like,
mind your business, girl, mind the business that pays you.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
And so Patty thinks she's slick.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
And I will talk more about it a little bit later,
but I definitely just wanted to say.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Patty, close your mouth. That's it. But how are you? Joho?
Speaker 3 (01:25):
How you doing?
Speaker 5 (01:30):
Oh my god, Sam, it's your an aka Broadway Batty
jo hoo. And just to respond to the beef Patty
of adults, did there beat?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Did you? Did you read the did you read the
New York interview?
Speaker 5 (01:47):
I could, First of all, she just don't sound pleasant,
Like she don't sound pleasant to roll with whatsoever.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
I'd be like, why am I here?
Speaker 5 (01:56):
If I was an interview and I had to accept
that through all that, I'd be like, girl is for
me ear, I'd be like, actually, I think the interview
is done, and thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I'm gonna go.
Speaker 5 (02:09):
This is a prime example of like how I never
want fame to go to my head, Like.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
I get it.
Speaker 5 (02:15):
It's Patty Lapone, And I emphasize my piece because she
was out here popping that ship herself on her interview
and Patty Lapone and like yes, like the legend blah blah,
but like when does film excuse us for beat from from?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
When excuse us from streaming people?
Speaker 5 (02:27):
Well, when there's just like harmful behavior, like girl, just you,
Like I get that you are you gonna be a diva,
but like, girl, you gotta be diva to your.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Own sister, It's like, what the fuck are you?
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I think what she lost me was when she called
her a bitch. I think when she used the B word.
I think that's when I was like, oh, I was like,
it took me out. Like I understand if you don't
see it for other people's career. I don't see it
for Tyler Perry and everybody knows that right, Like I
don't see it for him. I don't see it for
any of his creativity. Okay, that's fine, But my thing
is I'm never gonna go on record saying anything that
(02:58):
like to just stay you know what I mean? Like
there the difference between saying I don't see it for
your craft and then calling people out of their name.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
And I think that's where she lost when.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
I when I I don't I don't like when I
read it, I read it as like bitch as how
like as how like I say bitch like like this
bit over here.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I like, I don't read that as just disrespectful. I
think it's respredful.
Speaker 5 (03:20):
How she was like, let's look at her career, and
I was like, oh, my girl, well you're also ancient,
so calm down, like let's let's look at that fact
first of all, right, and then and then and then
and then when and then we then when we said
about Audra that she.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Knows better, I said, girl, what right?
Speaker 4 (03:36):
You know?
Speaker 5 (03:36):
Right?
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Yeah exactly? Not too much?
Speaker 5 (03:39):
Not too much for my girls right now, not my
girl on that one. So yeah, it's like like I
read I read bitch as the like colloquial bitch like
I think she'd be saying bitch every day tvq H.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
And I was like, Grandma needs you to take several
seats or like.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
She just showed me who she was. Yeah, she absolutely
me who she which when you're right, because she actually
did show you who you.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
That's all it is, even no matter how we how
we slice dice, cut it or put it on a
chop cheese. You see what I did there, Emily, Because
I'm sitting you in a second no matter how chop cheese.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
I'm hungry, yes.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Deal, literally fuck her forever over here because I just
don't see it for her anymore.
Speaker 5 (04:20):
And that's just it is what it is. And it's
also I wasn't say it sad because people loved her
when she was along, like she got a newfound fan base.
I'm like, girl, you fucked it up. Now should saying okay,
but because let's let's let's talk about it. She did
eat the roll like she didn't act it down, and
I'm like, girl, you just ruined your chant like you
had a whole bunch of people on rhyme for you.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Now they are like, girl, by.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Too much you know what what they say, too much,
dip on your chip, too much on your ship to
ye on your lip.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Girl.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
But with that said, we you hear a third voice,
and I am so happy that they are here.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
A job in our third see by by someone who
has been using literature as a means of healing for
a minute.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
And when they and I will say this, they were
huge supporter.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
One of the first people to ask me to review
my book before my book came out, and so I
said instantaneously, I said, I'm going to return the favor.
I want to make sure that you can come on,
you can talk about your book, and we can just
talk about all the wonderful things that you're doing from
from here here to the West coast, you know, from
the East coast to the West coast. I feel like
you're doing an amazing, amazing, amazing work and I am
(05:31):
a true fan of yours, and so I believe that
you are creating the blueprint for how marginalized people can
heal through literature. And I think a lot of us
kind of regale this idea of like, oh, reading a
book can't be healing or writing can't be healing, And
I'm actually like, Nope, there's someone who has.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
A degree that's proving that that is true.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
So their book bibliography in the Bronx is definitely a
must read, and I am so happy. I'm happy one
that I'm doing a lot of flying this week, so
I will have this book that book in my hand
as I fly and read, and I'll be able to
kind of get into that. But with that being said,
I'm happy to have them on this week's episode for
us to chat. Please welcome Emily Rumble to our show. Welcome,
(06:06):
Baby officially to the Mike, how are you?
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Thank you, my love. I'm so blessed. Thank you for
having me on the show. Black Fat and fam is
one of my favorite books of the year. And I'm
sool just being community and to have been trusted with
your book as an early reader. You know, like your story, really, Baby,
talk about visibility and showing up and being yourself and
(06:33):
standing in that truth. Like, thank you, thank you for
writing your story and thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yeah, thank you. And we're gonna be We're gonna have
a ball. I mean any anytime I'm on with people
from I always like to say I think some of
the coolest people and some of the smartest and the
most intelligent and the most greatest people I know are
from you know, the East Coast, And so I'm just
very very I love that to be here. I really do,
really believe that y'all are you know when they when
(07:01):
people talk about the East Coast, I always say, like
they are, they're just y'all are just real and y'all
get it, and y'all get it in a way that
I think a lot of there's a lot of I
always tell people, you know, there's a difference between being
nice and being kind. And I genuinely believe that a
lot of people in on the East Coast are genuinely
nice people, right. They nice in the sense of we
(07:23):
gonna do what we gotta do. But I'm also telling
it to you straight right, and and and and it's
just it's a real it's.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Just a real energy. So I'm really excited for what
we're going to cook up on an episode today.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
So I love that that behagens you fry it coast
to coast, Yes, yes, yes, coast. I cannot wait. Listen
my coast. I can't wait to get to the West Coast.
I just had a book tour stop yesterday, okay from
Black Kids Read Too. He was there and I was
(07:54):
so happy to meet him. I was fangirling. But yeah,
he was like, I'm fangirling over you. I'm like, man,
what you feel?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
You know? It's always usual. Yeah, when you meet the
people you are, you gonna you know.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
And so he was asking me when am I coming
to Cali, And I'm like, listen, I got two small children.
You know, I'm also raising us somewhat in this stability,
and I just don't play about my boy.
Speaker 6 (08:17):
I don't leave him in anybody's care.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
So I'm like, I don't know when I'm gonna make
it to the West Coast, but I rocks with the
West Coast heavy, like I can't wait to get out there.
So thank you for building me up.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
And yeah, you.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Girl, we can't wait to have you. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
So as usual, we go kick off our show as
you do every week, by giving our girl massaster can
about her flowers and are still here sentiment And because
we're because we're all some literature baddies, we want to
ask what piece of literature might have healed you or
might have helped you start your healing process. And it
can be fiction nonfiction, you know, things that make you
feel like your highest self. As listeners mayor may or
(08:58):
may not know, we are a bunch of avid readers
on the show. Myself, I grew up in alat of fiction.
I'm into a lot of non fiction and by gophical stuff. Yeah,
and I think the last book, the last really changed
me and I like, I definitely like, I definitely talked.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
About it a little bit on the show.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
But All about Love by Belle Hooks A plus memory
is one of my is one of the books I
definitely has transformed how I view love, the way she
explores the dimensions of love, how I see it as
both a radical action and as a personal experience. It's
become a book that I reference often in conversations with others,
especially when it comes to love and activism and love
(09:36):
in families. And so that is both that I like.
Like who I Am before before, Who I Am before
Bell Hooks in general is everything who I am after
belt Hooks, And I really really value to appreciate that
so much. I mean, I think I have the way
about Altry Lord all went about Tony Morrison, like who
I Am before? These and after? These books are really
just to remember, and I like love it so very much. Emily,
(09:57):
let us know, how about you.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
Boo child, how am I supposed to talk about the
books I love?
Speaker 1 (10:02):
When you just broke down all about love?
Speaker 6 (10:04):
How you did like all about love?
Speaker 4 (10:08):
You know, we're human beings, so semantics and making meaning
is everything. And I think what's special about all about
love is what you said, It's like the dimensions. First
of all, what is love like to me, to my community,
to those I'm actually in love with or hope to
be loved by?
Speaker 6 (10:26):
And then what is what is it all about? How
does this inform how I want to.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Go about living or connecting to people or expecting things
from people? You just woke that shit down, Okay, Like
I can't even think right now. I'm already in my
digeo therapy mode, Like how can I use this with
a client? Because that's also a go to text for
a lot of people who healed the literature it's all
about love, and I think Bell Hooks and black feminist
(10:56):
writers in general, but when you ask me about my
particular story and like my childhood girlhood coming of age journey,
it's always gonna be Why does the cage birds sing
by My al Lou? Because oh my god, I read
that book the most. I was first introduced to the
(11:19):
truth about abuse through a black girl's lens, through My
Angelou and her childhood story, and also like just thinking
about being caged and feeling trapped by other people's expectations
of you or who you should be, who you should become,
and like singing anyway, like bitch, if I gotta be
me in this fucking cage, you know what I'm gonna
(11:40):
be okay, and I'm gonna look good and I'm gonna sing,
and I think about like, that's to me, that's what
clearness is, right like, and so it's is a whole celebration.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Yeah, yeah, so I remember. So I'm gonna say real
quick to that before I get into mind. I remember
being like eleven or twelve and my mom reading that
book and I saw the book all around the house
and I would always want to read it, and my
mom was like, no, you're too young to read this.
And I remember one day she I think, my mom,
I think this is when my mom hers her work
(12:15):
shift had shifted and she was going to work at night,
and I took her book while she was at work
and I read it and I read it anyway, even
after she told me not to read it. And I
remember being so liberated by that book at a very young,
very very young age. But I definitely like, as much
as I didn't understand all the concepts, I was aware,
(12:37):
like I knew what she was talking about, and I
knew what she was hinting at, and I knew I
didn't know what freedom was for me at the age
of twelve, but by the time I was like fourteen
or fifty, I was like, oh, that's what miss Angelou
was getting at. Okay, I got it as a queer kid.
I was like, oh, she's talking about the freedom to
be myself. Got it?
Speaker 1 (12:56):
You know?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
So I will always shout that book out because that
book was probably one of the first real like adult books,
Like you know, you have way books you know you
can read and you sometimes you get the hint. I
even think it rolled all like I wrote, I read
a lot of rolled all books, and his books were very.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
His books are very much. They weren't they weren't queer coded.
They weren't. They weren't like but I even think like
like reading.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yeah, reading reading the not the I want to say
Gilbert great, but that's not it. The Orange James and
the Giant Peach, I was like, I knew it has
something to do with a fruit. But even reading like
James and the Giant Peach, like there was a lot
of elements of like I get this, like I understand
why and it and and a lot of his ship
(13:43):
was dark, like as much as you know quite a yeah,
this ship was really dark and it was it was
a ya book, but it was like it was dark.
I will say this though, I think for me now
as an adult. And I'll also say this too, I
want to give credit where credit is due as much
as I didn't fuck with Anna Ray into her her
latter years, because it came out very very clearly that
(14:04):
she was that she was sort of anti black, sort
of racist, and you know, and again she grew up
in the end of time where that was like the norm,
so you know, it is what it is. I also
want to shout out her too because a lot of
her YA stuff helped me understand how to write, write,
but what it means to tell a good story. So
I don't want to give her too much credit, but
I definitely want to say, you know, I can, I
(14:25):
can give credit where credit is duing. So Anne Rice
was also someone I spent a lot of time with.
But really I'll say the book as much for me
that it really really helped me was It's oddly enough,
Leah Himney's book, her book on scientology.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
It's silly, but you know, somebody loves.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
But her book on scientology like the lead her, you know,
her leaving leaving scientology and getting up out of there.
I was like it mirrored so much of my own
life and trying to get away from the j w
Org and I don't say it.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Was she was amish.
Speaker 5 (15:04):
No, honest, I thought you said she was amish.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
I need to believe I'm I'm actually having he said amish.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
I am screaming. I really thought you said she was the.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Way you what book did you read?
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Looked at you like.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
We actually decided to decided to take off the show today.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I'm sorry, but no, she was. Yes, she was honest.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
She was very honest, and I think too, I think
it was honest that I think I hadn't seen from
a celebrity who has written a book in a very
long time, Like I even read What's the Lady? We
don't like she's the comedian, uh, Tiffany Hattish. I read
Tiffany Haddish's book, Yeah, the Black Unicorn, and it was cute,
(16:11):
but I can still tell that there were elements where
she was like censoring herself, and I feel like Leah's
in a way was very honest. So yes, I very
much vibe with all of that. But anyway, Yeah, I
just I think books are so fering, and I love
that we have somebody who like really gets it, you know,
that's on the show in a way. That we haven't
(16:31):
talked about, you know, ever really on this show. So yeah,
that's that.
Speaker 5 (16:37):
Well, now that we have to go renew our library
cards and update our liby accounts and we're trying to
late books because you know, your girl will be uh
be definitely having that what's the word like I'd be
having that that thing where I'm definitely like a year
late on my book and this I'm also just steal it.
But grade when we get back, we'll talk more about
books as a form of healing more in just to said.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
All right, y'all, so we are not going to have
a whole person with a whole lass degree in using
books as healing and not talk about that. So this week,
as we dive in today's conversation and we get into
our category is segment, I know it will be easy
for us to focus on your book, Emily, and and
again I know we're going to do that.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
We're going to talk about that in a second.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
But first I wanted you to talk to us about
like what made you really like for your for your
kind of like your first book, what made you want
to center this concept in your first book? And also
I would love I know you've done. So again, I've
also done my research because I'm a journalist, I know
that you have done. Like you know, I don't know workbooks.
(17:50):
I think workbooks in the past. I also don't want
to discredit that, but I think it's something. This is
very specific, and I think in terms of American literacy,
I think it's so necessary right now, and so I
would love to get into a convo, you know, in
terms of wherever it goes, but really to focus on
this idea, considering what we're all up against at this point.
(18:11):
What did you have to consider while writing this book?
And also how has life been since your book has
come out?
Speaker 4 (18:20):
Thank you? Those are really great questions because launching the
book is no joke, and I know you know. Why
did I decide to write the book. I think it's
also just the accessibility of mental health care and education
in our communities. I hope for me. My career also
had to pivot because being a black woman, being a mother,
(18:43):
you know, I have a child with a disability. My
son needs me to be available to him in the
event of an emergency twenty four to seven around the clock,
and so I decided to leave my career as a
school social worker to focus on developing a private practice.
Speaker 6 (18:58):
That's where I started.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Literally, I developed the online presence and I got into
a program with Rohause Publishing. They were doing a book
sort of writers. I guess you can call it a
course for writing your manuscript. And the president of Rojas
was like, you know, we have a scholarship for black women.
Speaker 6 (19:18):
I applied to that. I got in.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
Because I'm a therapist and I'm always writing. I have
like twenty journals. I'm always processing things because as a therapist,
I take my work very seriously. I love my work,
but I also know that it impacts me on a
deeply emotional level. So journaling is one thing that I
do to kind of like have an alchemy around what
comes up for me and just like wanting to share
(19:42):
my emotions as a clinician. After sessions, she was like, hey,
do you have a manuscript to send me? And I
told her that I had journal entries and she was like, well,
just send me what you have and I want to
read through it.
Speaker 6 (19:56):
And I was like, how much do you want?
Speaker 4 (19:57):
She was like, send me everything, and I sent it
to her and she was like, I think you have
a book. So I was like okay, and she was like,
we'd love to acquire the book.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
And Rowhouse was really great. It's so cool, and they
were great about me having my own just the way
that I wanted to write the book because I knew
I wanted it to be accessible. I didn't want it
to be like strictly clinical and would row House support
this book? And they were like yeah, like let's write
(20:28):
the book. So that was the journey there. And you said,
how has it been since the book's been out?
Speaker 6 (20:35):
Yeah, you know how that go.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
But you realize, like I think, once a writer writes
the book, you think, oh, my publisher is just going
to push it, but then you realize when you get
to pub day, I have to push it. So that's
been the work for me now is like being a mom,
being a therapist, having a practice balancing the book launch.
It's like I have to balance showing up every day
(21:01):
to tell people about the book, to be like, yo,
did you read my book? Did you buy my book? Uh?
You know, plan appearances for the book, all the things.
And I've just been trying to find the like healthy
balance in that because this is also my life's work.
Speaker 6 (21:16):
And I yeah, it inspires other.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
Counselors, therapists, readers to like really think about what happens
to you when you connect with other people's stories and
what have you deprived yourself of or not been able
to like ritually internalize that you can find and a
love of literature, of poetry, storytelling, or just connecting with
community around books.
Speaker 6 (21:42):
So I hope for it.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
But listen, girl, it's been a lot going on over here.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Hard.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
Okay. I wrote the book and it's a great book. Okay,
So I'm standing toes down and I'm out here just
trying to tell people about the thing.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
But I feel I feel you more than you know, honey.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
Oh yes, yes, yes, I'm curiously ask you a bit
more about about the name Emily like Billio Therapy in
the Bronx. I'm because I was like, why was it
important for your center to the Bronx and your story?
Like how does a borough SERVI as a foundation for
your sharing in the book?
Speaker 4 (22:24):
I love that question because I'm a therapist, and so
to me, you're asking me about location. Why is location important?
Because it's not just what happened to us, it's where
did it happen. What's the meaning that I make out
of why that happened. And so we talk about location
as fundamental to the way we experience a thing. For me,
(22:45):
I was a foster kid. I was the daughter of
teen parents. My father in and out of jail. My
mother was like you know, in the street in a
lot of ways, and my grandmother raised me. She died
suddenly when I'm fourteen, I go to foster care. I
emancipate myself at sixteen, like this is all that I know.
(23:06):
And so the Bronx is where I end up once
I'm sort of developing my sense of self. I become
not just a woman there, but a therapist, the wife
or mother there. And so my whole sensibility is rooted
in that location. And when you think about, like how
we think about marginalized community, doctor Higgins is from Compton.
(23:27):
I don't know where you're from, Joho, but you know,
like y'all from Cali, like where you're from. People have
ideas and stereotypes, and they love to project what they
think you are, what they think you should be, or
limit you to what you would become. But when you
have a different sensibility, you see more. And so I
think the Bronx is so important to me because I'm
(23:48):
a healer and because of the community in which I
became a healer those I learned to help heal those
who helped heals me. And the Bronx is a hub
of creativity. It's the birthplace of hip hop. It's the
birthplace of some of the most creative, most anointed alchemists, leaders, thinkers. Right,
(24:13):
you talk about the culture of ballroom, you talk listen.
I could go on and out about this, but at
the end of the day, yeah, everything. And I know
that with big publishing, you know, publishing is so white.
It's like you're going to isolate readers. You're a black
academic And are you sure you want to like be
specific about location? And I'm like, hey, I'm what the fucker, Yeah,
(24:33):
I want to be specific about location, like right, this
is where it was.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Yeah, but if I may, I think so, that's the
thing I think is so. I love your response because
you know, I think and and and again as someone
who has published and I don't, I don't want to
isolate anyone in this conversation who hasn't. But I think
it is imperative for us to recognize that there's so
much that can be learned when we step out of
what we know in our every day right, So it
would be easy for me to stay in the Compton mindset.
(25:02):
But am I while I'm reading your book right, or
as I'm connecting, like I have my shout out to
a friend of the show, Jade, as I'm listening to
her on her podcast right and knowing that she's she
too is from the Bronx, right, And she's lived in Harlem,
and she's lived around elements of New York. There's so
much that she says that I know is framed from
that mindset. And you have to be open enough to
(25:23):
know that just because you live somewhere or because you
grew up somewhere, that's not the only way to live,
or that's not the only place that can teach you.
And so I think it's actually smart that you did that,
because I think it's you know, And I also say
this too, I think sometimes in media, we tend to
get a very white ideology of what these areas are.
(25:43):
So even like the Bronx, we're seeing white people talk
about the Bronx. We're seeing, you know, white people talk
about Harlem. We're seeing white people talk about New York
I want to hear from somebody who actually lives there
about what the true experience is, what their lives experience was,
and I can learn from their real experience, if that
makes sense.
Speaker 5 (26:02):
That's exactly what I was seeing too, Jean, because like
like like for like for someone for someone to say,
like your book maybe like maybe like like isolating or
like like slaving people. I'm like, okay, but I'm sure
stories are ran in other Bronx every day by people
who don't who don't live there from there and don't
like actually experience like like what means to be from
(26:23):
and of the Bronx. So like if those stories are
made every day, then like girl, like actually, like your
story is the one that's gonna be the most authentic
and representative of people that are there. Like yeah, you
want people who live there to say, yes, I see
myself in this book, and you want people who who
aren't from there just say what, like this can give
me actual picture what means to be there?
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Like there are folks who there some folks who will
who will never travel beyond their city, right.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
There are folks who will never leave, never leave their
their town or their county limits, whether it's for fear
just leaping, leaving or going to a new place. But like,
so books are like new books in your book is
like a great way to introduce somebody to a whole
new place.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
Okay, period. I love that because doctor Rudine Sims Bishop,
godmother of multicultural children's literature, she said that books are
marrors us sliding blass doors and windows.
Speaker 6 (27:16):
And that's why I said it.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Because sometimes we don't see it, we don't have the
mental representation of it. But when you read and you
connect with story, and you connect with other people who's
like who share your identity and who just have real
shit to say, you're like, yes, me too, or I
didn't know that shit okay, Like the way reading will
just shift your mindset and shift your perspective, like, wow,
(27:39):
I'm not of that identity. I didn't realize it was
like that. Thank you for telling me. Okay, tell me more.
Like when we emotionally connect with story, like all my
internal family systems just be rearranging, and I'd be expanding
my consciousness connected that And I just love that.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
That's the power of writing. You know, I'm really interested
because I think you know it can't it? Can it?
Can be real.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
I'll say this, it can be hard to write, and
I think it can be really hard to also share.
I think so, I think that's what I've been explaining
to people, you know, on my on my tour, right,
people have been asking me that question of like, why
the book and you know what, what did you go
through to get the books? And I'm like yes, and
I'm like, but I always like to tell people there's
so many layers to literature because specifically there's the layer
(28:27):
of how do I make this make sense? But then
also the layer of how do I how do I
speak my truth in a way that makes sense to
other people? And that I think that's the thing that
oftentimes makes literature as a whole. And then there's also
the part for you right where you're writing from a
healing perspective of how do I make this make sense
to people who may have never gone through this traumatic
(28:48):
thing and get them to understand the importance of what
that means to me and what it means for other people.
So there's all these other pieces that I think are important.
But I would love to ask, you know about kind
of the healing process for marginalized people, And I would
love to know as someone who enjoys reading and of
course writing. You know, I like to write. You know,
someone who has maybe never considered it right and they've
(29:10):
never considered literature as a healing mechanism. What might be
something that they could take away from this conversation.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
Well, first of all, I didn't know that you love
writing and you have workout. I want to read it
and support it, so please do let me know how
I can do that. And in terms of how reading
helps us heal, you know, I think a lot of
us are social now, a lot of us, girl, let's
be honest, Okay, our society makes us feel like you
(29:38):
can't perform to far, there's something wrong with you. And
so I think by connecting with story, first of all,
knowing your history, right, like understanding our lineages, what our
inherited traumas are, our inherited gifts are, really tethers us
to a sense of self identity that's more honest. Because
(29:58):
there's stories that we tell ourselves and then there's stories
that are true. And I think it's important to know, Like,
first of all, you know what I'm saying, Like my
parents parented me from the place in which they could parent,
What tools did they have, what were they lacking? How
did that inform what I get or didn't get? So
that you don't tell a story about yourself, that's that's
(30:19):
just not true. And I think that's so important and
that's a beautiful way that we read and connect the
story because it's truth telling. And I worry that with
our current you know, administration, with the erasure of our stories, Like,
buy every history book you can and build your personal
library because you're going to need to. We need those
(30:40):
healthy mirrors, especially as BIPAC people.
Speaker 6 (30:44):
So when we're talking about.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
Like intergenerational healing, when we're talking about inherited trauma, inherited gifts,
but also just like realizing that, you know, our society
is shifting in a dangerous way where we don't value
Celtics expression uniqueness in the arts, and you have to
know who the fuck you are and express that and
(31:06):
not be apologetic about it, and that good necessary trouble
is a gift. Like being able to be queer, to
be courageous, to stand in your truth, and not just
to standing your truth for yourself, but to communitly express
that is a gift because there's somebody behind you that
needs your mirror and that maybe you being courageous enough
(31:27):
to express who you are help somebody else express who
they are, and that it's a vibration that you put
out into the universe, like that shit is so powerful
and it's alchemic and it's healing. And I think connecting
through story helps us to have those kinds of reflections
when the world doesn't validate the beauty of your uniqueness.
(31:50):
Being a therapist, I know this because I am able
to work like in the privacy of a therapy room
where people feel like it's more contained, it's not super visible,
like I'm not going to be so judged. Maybe you
can't judge me, but like, if we have a get
therapeutic relationship, hopefully you're cool. But I think when people
connect with story, there's no shame. It's like, yeah, I
(32:12):
feel the same way, or I I didn't know that
was possible and now I can see it for myself,
or I can see how like I want to be.
Speaker 6 (32:22):
A part of that.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
So yeah, you know, storytelling as a healing as a
healing mechanism, it's endless and limitless in the ways that
it can help us see ourselves for our authentic selves
and like provide fuel for that self expression in so
many ways.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 5 (32:44):
I mean I deeply appreciate how you name and your
work as the stories we tell and read have the
power to unite areadye andy, And it's so clear that
you you demonstrate the storytelling es central chory.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Healing, like you live out that value.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
And so I have, like I have like a prone
question because one thing I'm thinking about in this conversation
is how natives continue to be construed in a harmful
and often infactual ways, right, Like, our literacy for interpreting
stories is failing as people are believing false natives as
fact and it feels like no one seems secure, But
what is that?
Speaker 3 (33:17):
What actually is truth? And I love your point.
Speaker 5 (33:19):
I love your point of like like how you said it,
but you were like there's like your feelings and there's
like there's a true right, and so like can I ask,
as a counselor and writer, like how do you seek
truth and hold truth in your own storytelling?
Speaker 3 (33:35):
And then for people who.
Speaker 5 (33:36):
Want to share their stories, how like how might they
when they're also scared of the response or fear that no.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
One will listen or that they'll construe it into fiction.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Okay, not these on Yama ask questions, but go off?
Sorry sorry, since that, I'm like, whoa, that was deep?
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Go off?
Speaker 4 (33:54):
Listen, where's the weed? Where? Yes?
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Let me go from my general red let's just go
roman with will.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
Blind bitch what? Okay? Let me get serious. Okay, first, it's.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Real, it's real, it's deep.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
De Can we break it down into two questions?
Speaker 3 (34:19):
I got you, I got you, I got you? Okay,
so just for you right?
Speaker 5 (34:22):
The first one is like, as a counselor Marty, how
do you see truth for your stuff?
Speaker 3 (34:27):
And how do you hold truth in your own storytelling?
Speaker 4 (34:29):
How do I seek truth for myself? I've learned, and
I'm still learning, and it's so hard. I don't think
I'm mastering this at all. But my shadow self is
such an integral, important part of who I am that
I've learned to not think about like categorizing my emotions
or my expressions of those emotions as good or bad either,
(34:50):
or you know, just being curious about my states, like
what comes up for me? Why where am I triggered?
Who's triggering it?
Speaker 6 (34:59):
You know?
Speaker 4 (35:00):
In my real authentic fears and securities places where I
feel like I just lack control. I used to run
from that awareness, and now as I turn forty in September,
I don't know how old y'all are, but your girls.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Going through it next month? Yes, you know what I'm.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
Saying, Happy early birthday, Yeah, Perry metopauseia like I'm going through.
So I'm like, you know, damn, Like I've been through
a lot of shit, and like, what do I really
feel and need and want as a black woman too?
It's just like, you know, wow, being a caregiver is
(35:39):
so much of my identity.
Speaker 6 (35:40):
Who am I outside of those roles?
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Like, yeah, what.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
Do I want for the next I'm like, Okay, I'm
a black woman. I'm probably gonna die by sixty. Let's
be honest in the next twenty years, bitch, Like, what
do I need to do to feel like a life
spend be fields? Yes, Like I really have given something
that's like, you know, a standard out here, because I
know my work and what I do with with people
(36:05):
in the in the privacy of my therapy room, but
that's invisible and I've had this whole other emotional experience
doing the work, you know, through public education, facing education
and social media and the internet, which is another realm
of bullshit. But all that's to say, I think it's
just about the showing up and the being who we are,
(36:28):
like operating in those gifts.
Speaker 6 (36:30):
It has taught me a lot. And what was the
second question?
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Where response to the first one? Thank you?
Speaker 5 (36:39):
As long as like like, it's this more advice for
folks who want to share their stories but are scared
of the response or the fear that no one wi
pay attention to listen to them, and or that people will.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Spend will spend their truth? That's fiction.
Speaker 6 (36:56):
Yes, oh, people spending your truth? That's fiction. Let's talk
about it. I think the first.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
Part question is really important because because you need to
know what your story is, there's always going to be
multiple versions of a story, right, Like that's why human
relationships are so difficult and convoluted and multi layered, because
you have a version of events and I have a
version of events, and we're on relationship to one another,
but we may disagree on how things went down. So
(37:24):
I think just like knowing, you're really being able to
get clear with yourself, and sometimes that state takes a
level of stillness and reflection that society won't offer you.
So how are you creating like a ceremonial, ritualistic way
to slow down, pause, reflect, turn in word and ask yourself,
(37:46):
what's my version of events? You know, once you get
clear with that, then you can really be like confident
in your sense of self and hear what someone else
has to say about their version of events.
Speaker 6 (37:57):
And even if you disagree, it's like, I respect that.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
Your version of events because, like relationships, again, you have
to be able to understand that somebody else may have
experienced something differently. Right, But I think that's a skill
that has to be like learned and cultivated.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Mm hmmm, hmm, that's right.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
I have no I was gonna also say too, to
add on to that, not to take away from your response,
because it was I think it was fan fucking tastic,
But I was gonna say, I think there's also a
part of me that you know, tell I would say this.
I want to pass this along to anyone who is
in the mind that they want to share their story,
they want to write their story, or that they're in
a place of like I want to tell the world
(38:38):
my story.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
You know.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
One of the things I got caught up on and
I had to work through with my therapists around this
was being afraid that the person that did the harm
or that caused me harm was going to read the story,
and being feeling like I had to kind of like
remove my feeling like I had to kind of like
not necessarily redact the story, but make the story pretty.
And my therapist came back to me and said, well,
(39:00):
and I talk about this in the book, I said.
You know, my therapist told me upfront. She was like, well,
if they're so, if if you're worried about what other
people are going to think about what you wrote about them,
they should have treated you better.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
However, that right, right, Like you can't.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Yeah, you may tell a story that may not always
be one hundred percent right in the minds of everyone else,
but there are stories, you know. But the reality is
is that my uncles were homophobic towards me, They were
transphobic towards me, and they were phobic towards me, and
it cost me harm. And so now in my book,
I'm talking about that and so if you know, yes
I can, I can offer them grace and say, yeah,
you know, they didn't know better. And it was a
(39:37):
different time and all that, but the reality was they
still treated me like shit.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
Was that your kiddie?
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Was that girl?
Speaker 4 (39:44):
Was that me?
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (39:47):
Let it out, Let it out, Let it out, Let
it out.
Speaker 6 (39:55):
Is everybody okay?
Speaker 1 (39:58):
I thought.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
No, I was looking so sorry. Hold up, what happened?
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Was it the kiddies?
Speaker 5 (40:09):
I think I got me a ghost bitch because Fernanda
on the fucking cat thing just chilling.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
That was why I heard it. I was like being
feul Yeah, I think it was from.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Meal baby baby, it was you? Was you was? I'm
sitting there about this.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
I got no work. What about that one?
Speaker 4 (40:29):
You know?
Speaker 5 (40:29):
And like like all good black folks, I'm on my
business and I know that problem be doing.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Don't be nothing and nothing that ain't got nothing, but
she's doing. I know that's right.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
But now with that being said, and after Christy cut
all of that out, Butterfly in the sky, I can't
go twice.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
Check look ship up book a reading rag all right?
Speaker 2 (41:00):
So now we have to take a break under the
reading rainbow, and when we get back, we are going
to talk more with our amazing guests.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Back in a second.
Speaker 4 (41:19):
Yo, is this a real podcast? Yes?
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Yes, yes, that's gonna be tied on an episode. Is
this a real podcast?
Speaker 3 (41:34):
I'm just saying you, like, I don't even I am.
Speaker 5 (41:42):
I really wish I knew what happened, Like I'm saying, ok,
it's not like it was close by. And I'm also like,
I'm in the middle of the kitchen, so I see everything,
and I'm like, there's nothing that happened by me.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Like my I was like, did like a picture bit
picture of fall? But like, no, I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
But you probably just hit your mic and it probably
was just really loud and it probably made it.
Speaker 5 (42:05):
But my hands were crossed.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
My hands are crossed on my legs.
Speaker 5 (42:11):
So that was But okay, ya, we're gonna keep it going, okay,
and we are back fam And what I don't want
to put you to work, Emily. I would love to
getjoy something of how you healing and put you to
work a little bit. Well, you know that drilling. Drilling
is a big part of the process. I love to
know how running size literature helps you rethink your boundaries.
(42:33):
I have some thoughts for myself as well too, But
I wanted to hear more from you. Firstly, then I
don't go. Then I'll pass the John Well.
Speaker 4 (42:40):
First of all, I think a lot of us don't
know what our boundaries are until they've been crossed. You know,
somebody step across the boundary, like hold up, who the
fuck you think you?
Speaker 6 (42:49):
And then.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Yeah, yep.
Speaker 4 (42:55):
I think that's the first thing. And so knowing what
your boundaries are and then letting those be expressed, like bitch,
that's a boundary, don't this is the gate.
Speaker 6 (43:04):
You can't do that to me. You can't say that
to me.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
To be addressed that way, whatever it is, setting the boundary,
but then reinforcing the boundary and learning a lot about
who people are in your life based on how they
do or do not respect your boundaries, because I think
I do want to say that. I think part of
what's hard about relationships today is that people are super
fragile and our egos are constant resulted by a false
(43:29):
sense of self importance, like, bitch, you still.
Speaker 6 (43:31):
Have to be a good human being.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
I don't give a fuck with good You asked that,
you gotta bbl you're white, you got apps, you still
gotta be a good human being. You're still accountable to
like a sense of character. And so I think there's
a way in which you know, boundaries have to be set,
they have to be expressed, being forced, and then we
have to be honest, emotionally honest about this person is
(43:55):
saying they're my friend, but they are they are or not,
you know, expecting my boundaries and especially with lovers, especially
with lover is because you know, a lot of our
attachment wounds and our early childhood stuff comes up strictly
and romantic relationships. So always be mindful of not letting
yourself be taken advantage of because like.
Speaker 6 (44:18):
They're good in bed.
Speaker 4 (44:19):
Okay, let's be honest because we all know we get
caught up, and I think.
Speaker 6 (44:23):
We need to be really like clear with you know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (44:27):
It's just like completely like what's going on, Like I'm
addicted and so I think boundaries are so crucial to
healthy relationships. But when we think relationship, we think and
other I'm talking about ourselves, like relationship with self, And
how does that manifest in.
Speaker 6 (44:44):
My ability inability.
Speaker 4 (44:46):
Or struggle to cultivate a healthy version of relationship with another?
Speaker 3 (44:51):
Yeah, real, nothing but work.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Literally, y'all.
Speaker 4 (44:59):
Watch Couples of Therapy on Showtime by the way, is
talking about that show, and I have yet to watch
it here true to psycho analysts. Listen, watch Couples Therapy
on show time.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Okay, question for you before before you go, Joe, question
for is it a reality show or is it a
scripted show?
Speaker 6 (45:19):
It's reality. She's actually.
Speaker 4 (45:24):
Psycho analysis working with couples in New York City. It's phenomenal.
It's probably the most I've seen on therapy. Yeah, because
you know you have like therapy on these TV shows,
but this is real therapy, like true to how we're trained,
true to the ethic, true to the source.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
Is that girl okay? Interesting? So interesting.
Speaker 4 (45:50):
Square couples, she got polyamorous couples.
Speaker 6 (45:54):
I just love the show. It's cyverse representation.
Speaker 4 (45:58):
That girl.
Speaker 5 (45:59):
Okay, well, thank you, this is so interesting. Wow Okay.
I feel like because like I just love so much
like you naming like we all have to be like
we also be like accoumble to ourselves to be good
being good people still because I think, like I think
(46:19):
so much about like when people use therast speak right,
like like therapy talk as like there are ways of
saying like oh, like there's difference because my thoughts boundaries
are great and we have to uphold them ourselves and
we actually can't like like, we can communicate our boundaries,
but like, we can't be upset with people from jump
(46:40):
when they cross the boundy because they don't know about like,
they won't know what the boundary is until you tell
them and like like and once you tell them, like
then they have a mission to act to act on it.
But you also have to like responsible for your own boundary.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
To and like and but and I think people like.
Speaker 5 (46:56):
People like they are responsible for accountable for it. I
love that you like like like, we are fragile people
and like we all we all don't want to be hurt.
But like but but like like, safety unfortunately isn't a right.
Speaker 3 (47:09):
It's a privilege, and I wish it was a right
for us. I wish, like I wish if he was
a right.
Speaker 5 (47:13):
But it's a privilege that we that we that we
don't always get and we have we have to find
out the best ways to say, to maintain safety for
ourselves and ask others in communient with us, like like
how they can keep us safe and understand that sometimes
safety will be broken and you can repair it as
well too, like I think so many folks, so many
of us like distance ourselves from connection for the say,
(47:36):
like like for the sake of self protection or to
your point, like the sake of self importance with like
without like understanding that like we as a people are
actually made to be interdependent and we can't do that
if we like set this walk up real quick and
say naw, girl, like that'shl not pass but shut up,
and like it's also I feel like.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
I'm a fairy tale. I love this so much. You're
such a great oral storyteller. I've like envisioning this as
you're talking.
Speaker 7 (48:02):
Literally giving yeah, you're still thank you, You're You're so sweet,
thank you because I recently heard that I'm just a
mumble mouth motherfucker on some other podcasts.
Speaker 5 (48:13):
Okay, yeah and still him forever, but go on that
ship was so funny that it was so you're better than.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
Me because I still have I was.
Speaker 5 (48:23):
But but like literally, like I think I'm like I
think a lot about the human conditions so so much
like there are times where I there times where I
wish I embarked on doing like therapy as like as
a quessioner major, I often think like I could not
be there because I would actually be the girl that's like, yeah, girl,
he was wrong.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
You tell his eyes he was done.
Speaker 6 (48:44):
You was you was.
Speaker 4 (48:47):
I have a great career.
Speaker 3 (48:53):
Thank you. I am so much the house.
Speaker 4 (48:57):
Girl, nor girl.
Speaker 5 (49:00):
How about we let's let's cut our sessions short. It's
it'saw me today.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
Girls do it. Let's go do it. Let's go do it.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
I'll be.
Speaker 3 (49:11):
Listen, okay. Because shrinking that show had the right idea.
Speaker 5 (49:14):
I was like, no shrinking after the idea, like mytherapist
should be should be in the trenches with me, help
me and stuff, and so yeah, I I just I
like I I really I really do love like like
I think, like like everything everything we do is like
we're all we're all fighting to be loved. We're fighting
(49:37):
to be seen, like we're fighting to be heard and held.
Speaker 4 (49:41):
Isn't it exhausting?
Speaker 6 (49:42):
Why we got to keep fighting?
Speaker 2 (49:44):
And that's that's the thing my therapist always reminded me about.
She was like, you shouldn't have to fight for but
I hear you because we want it.
Speaker 5 (49:50):
We wanted like but like, but but we're fighting, like
we're fighting ourselves. We're fightding each other, is how I
see it sometimes, Like like we're fighting because I say,
funning because like we like we don't know how to
open up and be vulnerable, and so we have to
fight ourselves to do that. And then others with others
don't know how to receive us or don't like bright
and said asking questions. They make statements and it's like,
(50:12):
girl like wait wait wait, wait see I'm always with
you when you write Joe, say that again, he said.
Instead of asking my questions, people make statements. And that's
say I shoot myself all the time. Whenever, like whenever
I'm playing myself being activated and I say something, I
type it out, I'm like, during, why am I actually
trying to get here?
Speaker 3 (50:33):
And let me ask a questions?
Speaker 5 (50:35):
Let me don't say something yeah, like like let me
ask you instead of saying something.
Speaker 1 (50:40):
Yes, Yo, you in your bag today?
Speaker 2 (50:45):
Girls, you are you are in your traders Joe bag,
trader Joe bags.
Speaker 3 (50:56):
Being incommunity with y'all is really met my ship. So
thank you.
Speaker 4 (51:03):
I can ask you a question your yes, Sam okay,
So I want to speak to this because you name
something so crucial about what makes relationships hard, Like we
want to make statements right instead of being open a connection,
but like that make the statement is such an integral
part of it, right, Like I make a statement to myself,
(51:24):
I name who I am instead of letting others name
who I am. And so how does my like my
strength is self possession. I can name myself for myself.
But then I meet another and I want to connect
and like I'm so aggressive about that name. How do
I find a way to like let the other name
me and connect to my energy and be in a
(51:47):
relationship to me?
Speaker 3 (51:51):
Damn? Okay, So actually I do think about this a lot.
Speaker 4 (51:58):
This is like.
Speaker 3 (52:01):
I'm I think a lot. John, I know, I know
we have the time, so I'm gonna try and like
answer briefly with this. We still got twenty minutes, Okay.
Speaker 5 (52:09):
I was like, well, I know, John, go too, So uh,
this is a true question, Emily, and like let me
first like like disclaimerate y'all.
Speaker 3 (52:16):
I'm not a therapist. I am not I I am
not a live coach.
Speaker 5 (52:20):
Like this is just my thoughts as a person, right,
I think one a lot about It's like my my
my Jewish.
Speaker 3 (52:26):
Is really important to me, Like Jewish expression really important
to me.
Speaker 5 (52:29):
My Jewish values and they're in like like in Jewish
culture tradition, there's this phrase called Hannani, which means like
I am here, I have arrived, and so we like
when you say like like naming yourself like han Nani's
when I think about a lot, I did a whole
poem about about Hanani before, or like a spoken word piece,
because it's about like naming who I am, and like
like like my like my name needs to just send
(52:50):
or flow like I say, like my name means to
send or flow. I'm a river for truth and clarity,
and so I invite you to to speak with me.
I let you to flow with me, and so like
Hanani is the way that I can name myself with others.
But I have to remember remember And I love that
you say like self possession, right, because only I can
possess myself, but I have to I also acknowledge that
I can't control perception.
Speaker 6 (53:11):
And say that and so when I share, But in fact.
Speaker 5 (53:16):
It like when I like when I show up as
myself and name myself to people, I have to remember
after be mindful that like that one when one how
I name myself may not always compete with them, may
not always compete with them, right, like how I talk
to them and not be how they actually want to
be talked to, and so I have to think about
how how they receive me, and then like, like I too,
(53:38):
I do want to be named by others, and I'm
curious of what they name, and I think I have
to go in with like a I have to go
and open with no uctation of saying in tuctation like
when they name me, try it on if I if
I if I don't like it, if I don't like
if I don't like it, I'd be like, no, a girl,
(53:59):
I appreciate that actually is not the name for me.
Speaker 3 (54:01):
So I thank you for your time.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
No y'all, I mean y'all, are y'all are in it?
I'm literally just sitting here being like all of these
things are things that I have processed out and have
talked to my therapist about, Like even the idea of
you know, why people why I'm so I'm very particular.
So this is totally going away from my response, but
why I'm so intentional about people calling me John versus
(54:33):
calling me Jonathan. And for me, it's like I don't
want people calling me Jonathan unless they really know me.
And there's there's this whole thing John is, Yes, John
is playful John. It's fun John's everything. But even down
to my name, right, what is the name you've given
me versus the name I give you? And I tell
people you call me John, do not call me Jonathan
because you do not know me that well, you don't
(54:53):
know me like that.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
And it's a control thing. And and I know it.
Speaker 2 (54:56):
I know there's a whole bunch of psycho analytic pieces
that could go into that. But I think about that
a lot, like what's in a name? And I know
that there's been various conversations about that, right, But this
whole idea of who am I and and and and
that's a boundary too, right, Like when I tell people
to call me John, that is a boundary. I'm setting
what somebody and saying, until you really get to know me,
then you have the right to call me Jonathan. But
(55:17):
until then it's John. And that's that on that right.
But I definitely think that there's something in that. I
want to say this real quick before we have to
scurry out of this segment. I will say I think
one of the things that I've learned both from you know,
hearing you, following you Emily, and then also just shit
that I've learned throughout my own process of writing my
own book, right, is that too a big part of
(55:40):
of these boundaries and writing, Like I think writing in
all of the articles I've done and all the stuff
that I've done, I learned that a lot of my
writing helped me understand how to tell people how to
love and treat me.
Speaker 1 (55:51):
Right.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
I got so used to people kind of just saying
and doing whatever they they they they wanted.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
To do to me.
Speaker 2 (55:58):
Then as I started writing, and I started really like, oh, bitch,
like I actually can be that girl, and I have
the right to tell people how they they should show
up for me or not show up for me like that, Like,
writing helped me get there, And so I think that
that was a boundary I never had before. You know,
my book came out now BFF is like a blueprint
to telling somebody like you have the right to tell
(56:19):
people how to treat you, and if they don't treat
you the right way, and you have the right to
cut them off or you have the right to cut
them out, do.
Speaker 1 (56:26):
As you may.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
But I think that that's that's the That's the thing
I think is so important and in all of this
is that I think that writing really gives people a voice.
Oftentimes I feel like writing, I feel like journaling. I
feel like all of those things are a voice for
the voiceless and a lot of time.
Speaker 4 (56:44):
So yes, before we end, I just got to say
one thing I love about your book too, is the
way you honor your black mother's voice, like she loves
you and you love her, and like I I was
so like, that's what I took so much away but
from my motherhood journey, I took that away from the
(57:06):
way you write your mom on the page.
Speaker 6 (57:08):
It's like, yo, you know, like.
Speaker 4 (57:11):
Your mother was really that girl, and I didn't know
how much you know what I'm saying, like how much
motherhood takes from someone just to the sacrifice, the love,
the grit, the grind, and like every step of the way,
she was the one being there by her side, like yo,
be you be great, be beautiful. And I know, as
a therapist, like my young especially my young queer black youth,
(57:36):
like the ones that are super clear, and I think
so much of our episode has been about clarity, self identity,
self discovery. Those of the youth that have been super
clear have been the ones with caregivers who've just been loving,
like yo, like you're my baby. Be great yea. And
when I think about what I want to be enforced
(57:59):
and the young that I work with in the age
where Trump is president and he's really trying to erase
our stories, is like, yo, you know you.
Speaker 6 (58:07):
You're not a unicorn.
Speaker 4 (58:08):
Actually there's a whole not at all that's behind you,
and like will be great, you know yep.
Speaker 2 (58:15):
So shout out to your mom, shout out, shout out
to queer people because it is prime, but also shout
out to shout out to the parents who love their
kids fully. And I think that's what I've learned in
all of this work, parents who genuinely give their kids
the autonomy to be themselves and love them, love their kids.
My mom included, Edwina included. We also shout out, I
(58:38):
saw your story, Jordan, And I want to shout out
Deborah because I know she listens to the show. You know, Mama,
she also is out there supporting you, and I love
that for us, you know, shout out to the black mom,
shout out to black mama.
Speaker 5 (58:54):
And she's halfway through your book too, which is very special. Yes,
that meant MS girl does not miss girl does not
does not be books. She is not a big book reader.
And she's like, I'm not of the book she tell
me about it, and.
Speaker 3 (59:03):
I'm like, okay, girl, Yeah, she's coming into the game,
and I let us see it.
Speaker 5 (59:08):
We love we we love moms and all, and we
love moms and mothers of all genders and space. Okay, y'all,
we have we have one more break to take. When
we come back, we go jump into y'all fairite SEGGI
with no man PAMs back in just to say.
Speaker 1 (59:34):
All right, y'all.
Speaker 2 (59:35):
So this week we are jumping into our yes ma'am
and our no man segment. This is where we either
give people flowers or like like we say, we throw
them at him. This week, mine is gonna be very short,
sweet to the point. This year, this week, this year,
that's how it feels. It feels like we've literally been
living a year and a month this this week, I
want to give my yes ma'am. Obviously, of course I
(59:57):
know you're gonna get into it, Joe, so I don't
want to step on you too much, but I definitely
want to say shout out. And I actually wanted to
say this at the top of the episode, shout out
to all of the people who are helping people organize
and do what they need to do to get these
ice people up out of their city, out of their areas.
I see it happening both in LA. I see it
happening not in LA, and I'm just so grateful. I'm starting,
(01:00:18):
Like I said, I've been feeling it for the last
couple of weeks, and I definitely want to say like,
I'm starting to see this collective, like we got to
have each other's back right now, and I'm seeing it happen.
It's so many different factions, and I'm so happy to
see it. So I hate that we're here and I
hate that we're having to do what we're having to do.
But I also wanted to shout out all of the
people that are actively working to make sure that people
(01:00:38):
get the protection that they need and stay protected the
way that they deserve.
Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
So I wanted to say that.
Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
The other thing I wanted to say to just kind
of out there brothers of the Desert. They actually hosted
me this past week out in Palm Springs. I have
never seen black elders be so kind and so loving
and so welcoming.
Speaker 4 (01:00:57):
To me.
Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
And it was just a beautiful thing to experience, and
so I wanted to take my platform to say, brother
of the Brothers of the Desert, thank you for including me,
thank you for helping me feel seen, thank you for
helping me feel valued for the work that I'm doing.
And I'm so grateful that you are doing what you
do and that I get to witness that from both
my you know, online experience and then also in person.
(01:01:21):
The other thing I wanted to say in terms of
no Man Pam So this week I definitely wanted to
say again I said we were going to talk more
about it, and we're actually running out of time. So
I'm just gonna say this, snide white women who try
to act surprise when they get clocked for their oppressive ways.
I've seen it happen in several iterations. And it's not
just Patty Lapone who I want to pin here. There
(01:01:41):
are a lot of white women in the media who
do this thing where they say and do things and
then they.
Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Go, oh my god, it that's not what I mean. Nah, bitch,
I know what you meant.
Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
I know what you I know what you meant to say,
and you're trying to act like you're not, Oh, I
didn't know. Nope, nope, nope, nope. Let's clock it. Let's
call a spade a spade. I know what you're saying,
I know how you're saying it, and I definitely appreciate
when people clock them.
Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
The other thing.
Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
I also wanted to say shrink flation, because I opened
up a bag of chips this week?
Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
Why was most of the bad air you meant and food?
Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
I was like shrink as in like therapist, you know,
shrin mean.
Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
I catch, I'm catching it. These stores think.
Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
They slip you won't TRYE seven, but there's only five
chips in the fucking bags lays.
Speaker 5 (01:02:37):
I'm looking at all of y'all niggas. Why are why
is the fucking.
Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
Dollars?
Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
I had to say it. I just had to say.
Speaker 3 (01:02:49):
Emily, we even do all the in the show. Okay,
we as fools, and we are fools. Would drop Jawn's okay.
Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
We are very educated people this look. But I also
like to call the state to stay. I know what
you're doing. Fucking pringles. Why are those pringles fort Islands?
And there's only five pringles in the fucking can? What
is that?
Speaker 5 (01:03:13):
Huh?
Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
Okay, Joe what are your what are your.
Speaker 3 (01:03:20):
Please?
Speaker 5 (01:03:26):
Okay, I got okay, okay, okay. So my series will
be able to catch a breath from this. So my
name is gonna be too Los Angeles. This resistance to
ICE and the deployment of National cord because we'recording this
week before it drops, I'm curious of how this week
will play out. But the deployment of the National Guard
is a gross party by the administration. And it's amazing
(01:03:49):
powerful to see resistance on the streets by the people
of l A. Like I pray people remain safe and
care for each other, but I like, love, love how
people are showing up.
Speaker 3 (01:03:59):
It is amazing, like this, this is right, This.
Speaker 5 (01:04:01):
Is what This is what community and interdependence looks like
in practice, and so it's beautiful to see that.
Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
Two things, my no man had my two l two things.
Speaker 5 (01:04:12):
First of all, it's for it's it's forever fuck ice
in the system of policing, like like it's fun all
that all the time, twenty seven But do you want
to name as well?
Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
This is like a hot take maybe, but like.
Speaker 5 (01:04:24):
People talking about how balance gets things done and that
violence is an articulation of liberation work and like if
that's if that's someone's m like work, girl, like that's
why you But like I want to stress that I
like I my like I can't express my my vision
of liberation to any handley and clue violence like to
incite violence is exactly what maintains the systems to be
(01:04:46):
against us.
Speaker 3 (01:04:47):
Like like like like we we we cannot and will
not like we cannot like will not like this.
Speaker 5 (01:04:52):
Mental health with masters tools and balances that tool now
I'm offering in self defense, okay, and if against.
Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
Violence mean does.
Speaker 8 (01:05:03):
Okay, there's a there there is a there is a
there is a thin line like don't go out and
cause chaos.
Speaker 3 (01:05:15):
But if you but but funk around, find out to
my door, okay, like and like I roll with the
I thought was that heavy.
Speaker 4 (01:05:23):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
I took on a brown belt. I took myself. I
took my substance classes.
Speaker 5 (01:05:29):
Girl like I got sha okay if if if I
if I's story uh uh a tear gas and me, I'm.
Speaker 3 (01:05:42):
It's not yours, it's not mine, it's yours. Take your
ship back.
Speaker 5 (01:05:45):
But like, but I like I want to stress that
like people like when you talk about like like just
going out and doing violence that is a supper slope
can get you messed up, can get your homie messed up.
Speaker 3 (01:05:57):
So I want to be really careful with that.
Speaker 5 (01:05:58):
Like please don't like like, don't take it to that,
to that age, because that's exactly like we people who
receive sensation.
Speaker 3 (01:06:07):
Balance all the time.
Speaker 5 (01:06:09):
Is like like it like that that I don't believe
that actually will not be in the change that we
want to see around us.
Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
And before you go, Emily Rove, I was not to
cut you off to I was gonna say, Dalli's if
you so I don't again, I don't know that this
episode is gonna comeut in a couple of days.
Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
I don't know where we'll be in a couple of days.
Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
But what I will say is that if you are
showing up to assist in these situations, please be careful.
Please be careful, wear a mask, make sure you turn
your phones off, make sure that someone you know is
going with you or knows where you are. Please yes,
like I'm I I beg of thee that if you
are going to go out here and you're going to protest,
(01:06:46):
I respect it, I hear it, I see it, I
understand it. But please make sure that you're not just
going out there because you're seeing it on social media,
and that you are actively doing what you have to
do to protect yourself and to protect others, because these
people they're looking for re into unlive you. They're looking
for a reason to cause harm to you. They're looking
for a reason to call more, cause more trauma. And
I don't I don't want any I don't ever want
(01:07:08):
it to come back to us to hear that. You know,
somebody that we know in love that's close to the
show got harmed because they went out, you know, and
again trying to do the right thing, which you right,
we should all be alarmed by all of the shit
that's happening in our country, but I definitely want people
to be safe.
Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
So I just felt the need to say that behind you, Joe,
I'm sorry.
Speaker 6 (01:07:27):
Yeah, thank you for saying that.
Speaker 1 (01:07:30):
Yeah, Emily, do you have any s mans or no
ma'ams before we go?
Speaker 4 (01:07:36):
My only yes, ma'am is girl, keep being yourself. Yeah,
shine right is needed, and it takes courage and they
ever feel divinely protected because that's the thing about light
work is that part of light work is a mastery
of the dark arts. And you're always going to confront
darkness that's in challenge and opposition and maybe antagonistics of
(01:07:58):
who you are, who you're trying to become, but love
yourself enough to become that. And we're rooting for you,
and you're supported by community ancestors who come behind you
and am covering you. And that's my guest, ma'am. And
I know, ma'am is like anybody who don't fuck with you, Okay,
I don't like I don't like you neither.
Speaker 3 (01:08:19):
Yeah, yes book, yes, yes, yes, And I will be.
Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Putting the link in.
Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
I will be putting the link in our show notes
for for our friends to buy the book. And like
I've said on this show before, and I will keep saying,
when when folks write articles, when folks write books, especially
black and queer folks or black folks, whoever is marginalized
when they do something in this this sphere, we've got
to support them because the industry is looking for any
(01:08:49):
type of way to say that our stuff is not
you know, our stories are not important, or that no
one's looking for our stories. So please go out and
by Emily's book. I definitely think you know what, actually,
you know what I might end up doing I think
I'm a buy So how about that, how about we
do this. The first person that emails us when they
listen to this show, I will send you a copy
of Emily's book.
Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
How about we do that? We do that whoever emails us,
but we'll get you. We'll get you. Whoever the show first,
We'll send you a copy of the book.
Speaker 2 (01:09:20):
So that way work that way, yeah, So that way
we can support the dogs and that the girls get
what they deserve.
Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
All right, y'all.
Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
So with that being said, we got to wrap up
this episode. Please send us your thoughts, feedback and email
to Blackfeffemnpot at gmail dot com. We love getting your notes.
Shout out to the folks who have sent us some
really kind notes and have said that our last few episodes, yes,
they was heavy, but at the same time, they were
very healing, and so I'm happy to hear that they're
they're you know, folks are listening and folks are getting
what they need from the show. That's what we intended,
(01:09:49):
what we set out to start the show three years ago,
and we are just so happy and thankful that everybody is,
you know, basically, we're all we're all healing together, We're
all doing the work together. We all got to support
and love one another in this time. So with that
being said, if you want to interact with us, if
you don't want to interact with us in the emails,
and you'd like to send us a message, go ahead
and shoot us a message over at Instagram or on
(01:10:09):
blue Sky or even on threads at Black fatfem pod
Uh know that it is spelled b l K and
not black because ultimately Instagram was playing in our face. Emily,
where can the dolls find you if you want to
be found or where would you like to be found?
Speaker 4 (01:10:28):
At l I T E r A p y Underscore
n y C, at Instagram, Tec, at threads, and at
Literapy n y C dot p O d I A
podia dot com.
Speaker 6 (01:10:43):
For y'all, thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
Stay yes, stay black and stay cleeer doing both pride
with and all. What I will say is for those
I also put the link to your site as well.
There's some really good resources over at your site as well,
so I'll put your website up there for folks, but yes,
please follow them.
Speaker 3 (01:11:02):
Very healing.
Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
I have been so happy to be connected to you
and I'm glad that the universe may make sure that
our timelines crossed.
Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
So I'm just really excited. Joho, where would you like
to be found this week of Chris My Loves?
Speaker 5 (01:11:14):
You can find me as you do every week at
Jojo Dann's across all the socials my website John Danees
dot com. If not that, you can find me, you
can find me. You can find me flegging some uh
some of some of tear gas back to that's right,
you got the wrong one.
Speaker 1 (01:11:32):
Today, bitch, today, tomorrow and next week, okay.
Speaker 3 (01:11:37):
And yesterday and last year and next year and the
whole way.
Speaker 1 (01:11:40):
Man, what what cardib saying? Forever?
Speaker 5 (01:11:43):
But the wrong one forever? You got the wrong one forever?
I know that's right? Ask for me and mine.
Speaker 2 (01:11:50):
You can always head over down to the ww dot
doctor John Paul dot com to.
Speaker 1 (01:11:54):
Find out more information.
Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
Specifically, I have about eight more stops on this book tour,
so if you want to catch me somewhere, feel free
to do so.
Speaker 1 (01:12:02):
But I'm telling you all right now, I already got
people be like, oh, what are you gonna do?
Speaker 4 (01:12:05):
I'm not at no.
Speaker 2 (01:12:07):
More dates after July eighth. July he is the last date.
I'm not going nowhere. If you want to see me,
it will be virtual. I'm not doing nothing else. So
with that being said, if you want to catch me,
catch me.
Speaker 1 (01:12:21):
Why you can't.
Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
You can also find me down on socials at Doctor
John Paul everywhere. And yeah, if there's anybody listening in
here who want to help me sell the rights to
this damn book. Now that the book is out and
it's you know, we're so close to three cave.
Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
Yes, you see it. Yes, if you're if you're watching
two bad books next to.
Speaker 4 (01:12:43):
Your all natural, yes, all natural?
Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
Oh no BBL, bitch no BBL.
Speaker 3 (01:12:52):
I love to see it.
Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
With that being said, we want to thank our producer
Bai Wang for handling all the logistics related to Black
Fat FM, and everybody at iHeartMedia who continues to keep
this show up and running.
Speaker 1 (01:13:03):
We love y'all. We thank you for your support.
Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
We want to also shout out our wonderful editor Chris Rogers,
because without him, we would have no audio and we would.
Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
Have no visuals for the show. I mean, y'all wouldn't
be able.
Speaker 4 (01:13:14):
To see our lovely faces down to the dudes of you.
Speaker 3 (01:13:17):
Okay, it's Chris thank you, Chris.
Speaker 4 (01:13:20):
You.
Speaker 2 (01:13:20):
With that being said, stay black, fat, femine, fabulous, and
remember what joho.
Speaker 5 (01:13:25):
We may not be a cup of tea girl, but
as I said before, and I spend but because my
sol Aga, because you need anyways, bitch.
Speaker 1 (01:13:31):
I know that's right. We love you for real, Love
y'all for real, b
The Black Fat Fem Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
and Doctor John Paul LLC.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the blackfets and
Podcast where all the intersections of a dy a celebrated.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
I am one of your hosts, John also known as.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Doctor John Paul, And yes, I know that we will
be talking about NYC a little bit later in this episode,
but I just wanted to go on record and say
fuck pat La Pone and that's with a capital F.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
You know, I've been following the mess I know I'm
a little late.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
You know.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
I know I'm a little late.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
To the conversation because a lot of the girls have
already read her down and read her for filth. But
I definitely just wanted to say that. I also, I
too wanted to get my good fuck you in, and
mainly not necessarily for her career. I think moretheless, what
I want to say fuck you to is I want
(00:54):
to say this, she could kick rock with orthopedic shoes,
because I have a very have a problem with this
idea that there are a lot of white people in
the industry who just ultimately feel the need to always
chime in on stuff they ain't got no business chiming
in on speaking about other people's careers, and it's like,
mind your business, girl, mind the business that pays you.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
And so Patty thinks she's slick.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
And I will talk more about it a little bit later,
but I definitely just wanted to say.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Patty, close your mouth. That's it. But how are you? Joho?
Speaker 3 (01:25):
How you doing?
Speaker 5 (01:30):
Oh my god, Sam, it's your an aka Broadway Batty
jo hoo. And just to respond to the beef Patty
of adults, did there beat?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Did you? Did you read the did you read the
New York interview?
Speaker 5 (01:47):
I could, First of all, she just don't sound pleasant,
Like she don't sound pleasant to roll with whatsoever.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
I'd be like, why am I here?
Speaker 5 (01:56):
If I was an interview and I had to accept
that through all that, I'd be like, girl is for
me ear, I'd be like, actually, I think the interview
is done, and thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I'm gonna go.
Speaker 5 (02:09):
This is a prime example of like how I never
want fame to go to my head, Like.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
I get it.
Speaker 5 (02:15):
It's Patty Lapone, And I emphasize my piece because she
was out here popping that ship herself on her interview
and Patty Lapone and like yes, like the legend blah blah,
but like when does film excuse us for beat from from?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
When excuse us from streaming people?
Speaker 5 (02:27):
Well, when there's just like harmful behavior, like girl, just you,
Like I get that you are you gonna be a diva,
but like, girl, you gotta be diva to your.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Own sister, It's like, what the fuck are you?
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I think what she lost me was when she called
her a bitch. I think when she used the B word.
I think that's when I was like, oh, I was like,
it took me out. Like I understand if you don't
see it for other people's career. I don't see it
for Tyler Perry and everybody knows that right, Like I
don't see it for him. I don't see it for
any of his creativity. Okay, that's fine, But my thing
is I'm never gonna go on record saying anything that
(02:58):
like to just stay you know what I mean? Like
there the difference between saying I don't see it for
your craft and then calling people out of their name.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
And I think that's where she lost when.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
I when I I don't I don't like when I
read it, I read it as like bitch as how
like as how like I say bitch like like this
bit over here.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I like, I don't read that as just disrespectful. I
think it's respredful.
Speaker 5 (03:20):
How she was like, let's look at her career, and
I was like, oh, my girl, well you're also ancient,
so calm down, like let's let's look at that fact
first of all, right, and then and then and then
and then when and then we then when we said
about Audra that she.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Knows better, I said, girl, what right?
Speaker 4 (03:36):
You know?
Speaker 5 (03:36):
Right?
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Yeah exactly? Not too much?
Speaker 5 (03:39):
Not too much for my girls right now, not my
girl on that one. So yeah, it's like like I
read I read bitch as the like colloquial bitch like
I think she'd be saying bitch every day tvq H.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
And I was like, Grandma needs you to take several
seats or like.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
She just showed me who she was. Yeah, she absolutely
me who she which when you're right, because she actually
did show you who you.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
That's all it is, even no matter how we how
we slice dice, cut it or put it on a
chop cheese. You see what I did there, Emily, Because
I'm sitting you in a second no matter how chop cheese.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
I'm hungry, yes.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Deal, literally fuck her forever over here because I just
don't see it for her anymore.
Speaker 5 (04:20):
And that's just it is what it is. And it's
also I wasn't say it sad because people loved her
when she was along, like she got a newfound fan base.
I'm like, girl, you fucked it up. Now should saying okay,
but because let's let's let's talk about it. She did
eat the roll like she didn't act it down, and
I'm like, girl, you just ruined your chant like you
had a whole bunch of people on rhyme for you.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Now they are like, girl, by.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Too much you know what what they say, too much,
dip on your chip, too much on your ship to
ye on your lip.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Girl.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
But with that said, we you hear a third voice,
and I am so happy that they are here.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
A job in our third see by by someone who
has been using literature as a means of healing for
a minute.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
And when they and I will say this, they were
huge supporter.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
One of the first people to ask me to review
my book before my book came out, and so I
said instantaneously, I said, I'm going to return the favor.
I want to make sure that you can come on,
you can talk about your book, and we can just
talk about all the wonderful things that you're doing from
from here here to the West coast, you know, from
the East coast to the West coast. I feel like
you're doing an amazing, amazing, amazing work and I am
(05:31):
a true fan of yours, and so I believe that
you are creating the blueprint for how marginalized people can
heal through literature. And I think a lot of us
kind of regale this idea of like, oh, reading a
book can't be healing or writing can't be healing, And
I'm actually like, Nope, there's someone who has.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
A degree that's proving that that is true.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
So their book bibliography in the Bronx is definitely a
must read, and I am so happy. I'm happy one
that I'm doing a lot of flying this week, so
I will have this book that book in my hand
as I fly and read, and I'll be able to
kind of get into that. But with that being said,
I'm happy to have them on this week's episode for
us to chat. Please welcome Emily Rumble to our show. Welcome,
(06:06):
Baby officially to the Mike, how are you?
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Thank you, my love. I'm so blessed. Thank you for
having me on the show. Black Fat and fam is
one of my favorite books of the year. And I'm
sool just being community and to have been trusted with
your book as an early reader. You know, like your story, really, Baby,
talk about visibility and showing up and being yourself and
(06:33):
standing in that truth. Like, thank you, thank you for
writing your story and thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yeah, thank you. And we're gonna be We're gonna have
a ball. I mean any anytime I'm on with people
from I always like to say I think some of
the coolest people and some of the smartest and the
most intelligent and the most greatest people I know are
from you know, the East Coast, And so I'm just
very very I love that to be here. I really do,
really believe that y'all are you know when they when
(07:01):
people talk about the East Coast, I always say, like
they are, they're just y'all are just real and y'all
get it, and y'all get it in a way that
I think a lot of there's a lot of I
always tell people, you know, there's a difference between being
nice and being kind. And I genuinely believe that a
lot of people in on the East Coast are genuinely
nice people, right. They nice in the sense of we
(07:23):
gonna do what we gotta do. But I'm also telling
it to you straight right, and and and and it's
just it's a real it's.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Just a real energy. So I'm really excited for what
we're going to cook up on an episode today.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
So I love that that behagens you fry it coast
to coast, Yes, yes, yes, coast. I cannot wait. Listen
my coast. I can't wait to get to the West Coast.
I just had a book tour stop yesterday, okay from
Black Kids Read Too. He was there and I was
(07:54):
so happy to meet him. I was fangirling. But yeah,
he was like, I'm fangirling over you. I'm like, man,
what you feel?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
You know? It's always usual. Yeah, when you meet the
people you are, you gonna you know.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
And so he was asking me when am I coming
to Cali, And I'm like, listen, I got two small children.
You know, I'm also raising us somewhat in this stability,
and I just don't play about my boy.
Speaker 6 (08:17):
I don't leave him in anybody's care.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
So I'm like, I don't know when I'm gonna make
it to the West Coast, but I rocks with the
West Coast heavy, like I can't wait to get out there.
So thank you for building me up.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
And yeah, you.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Girl, we can't wait to have you. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
So as usual, we go kick off our show as
you do every week, by giving our girl massaster can
about her flowers and are still here sentiment And because
we're because we're all some literature baddies, we want to
ask what piece of literature might have healed you or
might have helped you start your healing process. And it
can be fiction nonfiction, you know, things that make you
feel like your highest self. As listeners mayor may or
(08:58):
may not know, we are a bunch of avid readers
on the show. Myself, I grew up in alat of fiction.
I'm into a lot of non fiction and by gophical stuff. Yeah,
and I think the last book, the last really changed
me and I like, I definitely like, I definitely talked.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
About it a little bit on the show.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
But All about Love by Belle Hooks A plus memory
is one of my is one of the books I
definitely has transformed how I view love, the way she
explores the dimensions of love, how I see it as
both a radical action and as a personal experience. It's
become a book that I reference often in conversations with others,
especially when it comes to love and activism and love
(09:36):
in families. And so that is both that I like.
Like who I Am before before, Who I Am before
Bell Hooks in general is everything who I am after
belt Hooks, And I really really value to appreciate that
so much. I mean, I think I have the way
about Altry Lord all went about Tony Morrison, like who
I Am before? These and after? These books are really
just to remember, and I like love it so very much. Emily,
(09:57):
let us know, how about you.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
Boo child, how am I supposed to talk about the
books I love?
Speaker 1 (10:02):
When you just broke down all about love?
Speaker 6 (10:04):
How you did like all about love?
Speaker 4 (10:08):
You know, we're human beings, so semantics and making meaning
is everything. And I think what's special about all about
love is what you said, It's like the dimensions. First
of all, what is love like to me, to my community,
to those I'm actually in love with or hope to
be loved by?
Speaker 6 (10:26):
And then what is what is it all about? How
does this inform how I want to.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Go about living or connecting to people or expecting things
from people? You just woke that shit down, Okay, Like
I can't even think right now. I'm already in my
digeo therapy mode, Like how can I use this with
a client? Because that's also a go to text for
a lot of people who healed the literature it's all
about love, and I think Bell Hooks and black feminist
(10:56):
writers in general, but when you ask me about my
particular story and like my childhood girlhood coming of age journey,
it's always gonna be Why does the cage birds sing
by My al Lou? Because oh my god, I read
that book the most. I was first introduced to the
(11:19):
truth about abuse through a black girl's lens, through My
Angelou and her childhood story, and also like just thinking
about being caged and feeling trapped by other people's expectations
of you or who you should be, who you should become,
and like singing anyway, like bitch, if I gotta be
me in this fucking cage, you know what I'm gonna
(11:40):
be okay, and I'm gonna look good and I'm gonna sing,
and I think about like, that's to me, that's what
clearness is, right like, and so it's is a whole celebration.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Yeah, yeah, so I remember. So I'm gonna say real
quick to that before I get into mind. I remember
being like eleven or twelve and my mom reading that
book and I saw the book all around the house
and I would always want to read it, and my
mom was like, no, you're too young to read this.
And I remember one day she I think, my mom,
I think this is when my mom hers her work
(12:15):
shift had shifted and she was going to work at night,
and I took her book while she was at work
and I read it and I read it anyway, even
after she told me not to read it. And I
remember being so liberated by that book at a very young,
very very young age. But I definitely like, as much
as I didn't understand all the concepts, I was aware,
(12:37):
like I knew what she was talking about, and I
knew what she was hinting at, and I knew I
didn't know what freedom was for me at the age
of twelve, but by the time I was like fourteen
or fifty, I was like, oh, that's what miss Angelou
was getting at. Okay, I got it as a queer kid.
I was like, oh, she's talking about the freedom to
be myself. Got it?
Speaker 1 (12:56):
You know?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
So I will always shout that book out because that
book was probably one of the first real like adult books,
Like you know, you have way books you know you
can read and you sometimes you get the hint. I
even think it rolled all like I wrote, I read
a lot of rolled all books, and his books were very.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
His books are very much. They weren't they weren't queer coded.
They weren't. They weren't like but I even think like
like reading.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yeah, reading reading the not the I want to say
Gilbert great, but that's not it. The Orange James and
the Giant Peach, I was like, I knew it has
something to do with a fruit. But even reading like
James and the Giant Peach, like there was a lot
of elements of like I get this, like I understand
why and it and and a lot of his ship
(13:43):
was dark, like as much as you know quite a yeah,
this ship was really dark and it was it was
a ya book, but it was like it was dark.
I will say this though, I think for me now
as an adult. And I'll also say this too, I
want to give credit where credit is due as much
as I didn't fuck with Anna Ray into her her
latter years, because it came out very very clearly that
(14:04):
she was that she was sort of anti black, sort
of racist, and you know, and again she grew up
in the end of time where that was like the norm,
so you know, it is what it is. I also
want to shout out her too because a lot of
her YA stuff helped me understand how to write, write,
but what it means to tell a good story. So
I don't want to give her too much credit, but
I definitely want to say, you know, I can, I
(14:25):
can give credit where credit is duing. So Anne Rice
was also someone I spent a lot of time with.
But really I'll say the book as much for me
that it really really helped me was It's oddly enough,
Leah Himney's book, her book on scientology.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
It's silly, but you know, somebody loves.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
But her book on scientology like the lead her, you know,
her leaving leaving scientology and getting up out of there.
I was like it mirrored so much of my own
life and trying to get away from the j w
Org and I don't say it.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Was she was amish.
Speaker 5 (15:04):
No, honest, I thought you said she was amish.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
I need to believe I'm I'm actually having he said amish.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
I am screaming. I really thought you said she was the.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Way you what book did you read?
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Looked at you like.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
We actually decided to decided to take off the show today.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I'm sorry, but no, she was. Yes, she was honest.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
She was very honest, and I think too, I think
it was honest that I think I hadn't seen from
a celebrity who has written a book in a very
long time, Like I even read What's the Lady? We
don't like she's the comedian, uh, Tiffany Hattish. I read
Tiffany Haddish's book, Yeah, the Black Unicorn, and it was cute,
(16:11):
but I can still tell that there were elements where
she was like censoring herself, and I feel like Leah's
in a way was very honest. So yes, I very
much vibe with all of that. But anyway, Yeah, I
just I think books are so fering, and I love
that we have somebody who like really gets it, you know,
that's on the show in a way. That we haven't
(16:31):
talked about, you know, ever really on this show. So yeah,
that's that.
Speaker 5 (16:37):
Well, now that we have to go renew our library
cards and update our liby accounts and we're trying to
late books because you know, your girl will be uh
be definitely having that what's the word like I'd be
having that that thing where I'm definitely like a year
late on my book and this I'm also just steal it.
But grade when we get back, we'll talk more about
books as a form of healing more in just to said.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
All right, y'all, so we are not going to have
a whole person with a whole lass degree in using
books as healing and not talk about that. So this week,
as we dive in today's conversation and we get into
our category is segment, I know it will be easy
for us to focus on your book, Emily, and and
again I know we're going to do that.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
We're going to talk about that in a second.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
But first I wanted you to talk to us about
like what made you really like for your for your
kind of like your first book, what made you want
to center this concept in your first book? And also
I would love I know you've done. So again, I've
also done my research because I'm a journalist, I know
that you have done. Like you know, I don't know workbooks.
(17:50):
I think workbooks in the past. I also don't want
to discredit that, but I think it's something. This is
very specific, and I think in terms of American literacy,
I think it's so necessary right now, and so I
would love to get into a convo, you know, in
terms of wherever it goes, but really to focus on
this idea, considering what we're all up against at this point.
(18:11):
What did you have to consider while writing this book?
And also how has life been since your book has
come out?
Speaker 4 (18:20):
Thank you? Those are really great questions because launching the
book is no joke, and I know you know. Why
did I decide to write the book. I think it's
also just the accessibility of mental health care and education
in our communities. I hope for me. My career also
had to pivot because being a black woman, being a mother,
(18:43):
you know, I have a child with a disability. My
son needs me to be available to him in the
event of an emergency twenty four to seven around the clock,
and so I decided to leave my career as a
school social worker to focus on developing a private practice.
Speaker 6 (18:58):
That's where I started.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Literally, I developed the online presence and I got into
a program with Rohause Publishing. They were doing a book
sort of writers. I guess you can call it a
course for writing your manuscript. And the president of Rojas
was like, you know, we have a scholarship for black women.
Speaker 6 (19:18):
I applied to that. I got in.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
Because I'm a therapist and I'm always writing. I have
like twenty journals. I'm always processing things because as a therapist,
I take my work very seriously. I love my work,
but I also know that it impacts me on a
deeply emotional level. So journaling is one thing that I
do to kind of like have an alchemy around what
comes up for me and just like wanting to share
(19:42):
my emotions as a clinician. After sessions, she was like, hey,
do you have a manuscript to send me? And I
told her that I had journal entries and she was like, well,
just send me what you have and I want to
read through it.
Speaker 6 (19:56):
And I was like, how much do you want?
Speaker 4 (19:57):
She was like, send me everything, and I sent it
to her and she was like, I think you have
a book. So I was like okay, and she was like,
we'd love to acquire the book.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
And Rowhouse was really great. It's so cool, and they
were great about me having my own just the way
that I wanted to write the book because I knew
I wanted it to be accessible. I didn't want it
to be like strictly clinical and would row House support
this book? And they were like yeah, like let's write
(20:28):
the book. So that was the journey there. And you said,
how has it been since the book's been out?
Speaker 6 (20:35):
Yeah, you know how that go.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
But you realize, like I think, once a writer writes
the book, you think, oh, my publisher is just going
to push it, but then you realize when you get
to pub day, I have to push it. So that's
been the work for me now is like being a mom,
being a therapist, having a practice balancing the book launch.
It's like I have to balance showing up every day
(21:01):
to tell people about the book, to be like, yo,
did you read my book? Did you buy my book? Uh?
You know, plan appearances for the book, all the things.
And I've just been trying to find the like healthy
balance in that because this is also my life's work.
Speaker 6 (21:16):
And I yeah, it inspires other.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
Counselors, therapists, readers to like really think about what happens
to you when you connect with other people's stories and
what have you deprived yourself of or not been able
to like ritually internalize that you can find and a
love of literature, of poetry, storytelling, or just connecting with
community around books.
Speaker 6 (21:42):
So I hope for it.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
But listen, girl, it's been a lot going on over here.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Hard.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
Okay. I wrote the book and it's a great book. Okay,
So I'm standing toes down and I'm out here just
trying to tell people about the thing.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
But I feel I feel you more than you know, honey.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
Oh yes, yes, yes, I'm curiously ask you a bit
more about about the name Emily like Billio Therapy in
the Bronx. I'm because I was like, why was it
important for your center to the Bronx and your story?
Like how does a borough SERVI as a foundation for
your sharing in the book?
Speaker 4 (22:24):
I love that question because I'm a therapist, and so
to me, you're asking me about location. Why is location important?
Because it's not just what happened to us, it's where
did it happen. What's the meaning that I make out
of why that happened. And so we talk about location
as fundamental to the way we experience a thing. For me,
(22:45):
I was a foster kid. I was the daughter of
teen parents. My father in and out of jail. My
mother was like you know, in the street in a
lot of ways, and my grandmother raised me. She died
suddenly when I'm fourteen, I go to foster care. I
emancipate myself at sixteen, like this is all that I know.
(23:06):
And so the Bronx is where I end up once
I'm sort of developing my sense of self. I become
not just a woman there, but a therapist, the wife
or mother there. And so my whole sensibility is rooted
in that location. And when you think about, like how
we think about marginalized community, doctor Higgins is from Compton.
(23:27):
I don't know where you're from, Joho, but you know,
like y'all from Cali, like where you're from. People have
ideas and stereotypes, and they love to project what they
think you are, what they think you should be, or
limit you to what you would become. But when you
have a different sensibility, you see more. And so I
think the Bronx is so important to me because I'm
(23:48):
a healer and because of the community in which I
became a healer those I learned to help heal those
who helped heals me. And the Bronx is a hub
of creativity. It's the birthplace of hip hop. It's the
birthplace of some of the most creative, most anointed alchemists, leaders, thinkers. Right,
(24:13):
you talk about the culture of ballroom, you talk listen.
I could go on and out about this, but at
the end of the day, yeah, everything. And I know
that with big publishing, you know, publishing is so white.
It's like you're going to isolate readers. You're a black
academic And are you sure you want to like be
specific about location? And I'm like, hey, I'm what the fucker, Yeah,
(24:33):
I want to be specific about location, like right, this
is where it was.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Yeah, but if I may, I think so, that's the
thing I think is so. I love your response because
you know, I think and and and again as someone
who has published and I don't, I don't want to
isolate anyone in this conversation who hasn't. But I think
it is imperative for us to recognize that there's so
much that can be learned when we step out of
what we know in our every day right, So it
would be easy for me to stay in the Compton mindset.
(25:02):
But am I while I'm reading your book right, or
as I'm connecting, like I have my shout out to
a friend of the show, Jade, as I'm listening to
her on her podcast right and knowing that she's she
too is from the Bronx, right, And she's lived in Harlem,
and she's lived around elements of New York. There's so
much that she says that I know is framed from
that mindset. And you have to be open enough to
(25:23):
know that just because you live somewhere or because you
grew up somewhere, that's not the only way to live,
or that's not the only place that can teach you.
And so I think it's actually smart that you did that,
because I think it's you know, And I also say
this too, I think sometimes in media, we tend to
get a very white ideology of what these areas are.
(25:43):
So even like the Bronx, we're seeing white people talk
about the Bronx. We're seeing, you know, white people talk
about Harlem. We're seeing white people talk about New York
I want to hear from somebody who actually lives there
about what the true experience is, what their lives experience was,
and I can learn from their real experience, if that
makes sense.
Speaker 5 (26:02):
That's exactly what I was seeing too, Jean, because like
like like for like for someone for someone to say,
like your book maybe like maybe like like isolating or
like like slaving people. I'm like, okay, but I'm sure
stories are ran in other Bronx every day by people
who don't who don't live there from there and don't
like actually experience like like what means to be from
(26:23):
and of the Bronx. So like if those stories are
made every day, then like girl, like actually, like your
story is the one that's gonna be the most authentic
and representative of people that are there. Like yeah, you
want people who live there to say, yes, I see
myself in this book, and you want people who who
aren't from there just say what, like this can give
me actual picture what means to be there?
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Like there are folks who there some folks who will
who will never travel beyond their city, right.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
There are folks who will never leave, never leave their
their town or their county limits, whether it's for fear
just leaping, leaving or going to a new place. But like,
so books are like new books in your book is
like a great way to introduce somebody to a whole
new place.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
Okay, period. I love that because doctor Rudine Sims Bishop,
godmother of multicultural children's literature, she said that books are
marrors us sliding blass doors and windows.
Speaker 6 (27:16):
And that's why I said it.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Because sometimes we don't see it, we don't have the
mental representation of it. But when you read and you
connect with story, and you connect with other people who's
like who share your identity and who just have real
shit to say, you're like, yes, me too, or I
didn't know that shit okay, Like the way reading will
just shift your mindset and shift your perspective, like, wow,
(27:39):
I'm not of that identity. I didn't realize it was
like that. Thank you for telling me. Okay, tell me more.
Like when we emotionally connect with story, like all my
internal family systems just be rearranging, and I'd be expanding
my consciousness connected that And I just love that.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
That's the power of writing. You know, I'm really interested
because I think you know it can't it? Can it?
Can be real.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
I'll say this, it can be hard to write, and
I think it can be really hard to also share.
I think so, I think that's what I've been explaining
to people, you know, on my on my tour, right,
people have been asking me that question of like, why
the book and you know what, what did you go
through to get the books? And I'm like yes, and
I'm like, but I always like to tell people there's
so many layers to literature because specifically there's the layer
(28:27):
of how do I make this make sense? But then
also the layer of how do I how do I
speak my truth in a way that makes sense to
other people? And that I think that's the thing that
oftentimes makes literature as a whole. And then there's also
the part for you right where you're writing from a
healing perspective of how do I make this make sense
to people who may have never gone through this traumatic
(28:48):
thing and get them to understand the importance of what
that means to me and what it means for other people.
So there's all these other pieces that I think are important.
But I would love to ask, you know about kind
of the healing process for marginalized people, And I would
love to know as someone who enjoys reading and of
course writing. You know, I like to write. You know,
someone who has maybe never considered it right and they've
(29:10):
never considered literature as a healing mechanism. What might be
something that they could take away from this conversation.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
Well, first of all, I didn't know that you love
writing and you have workout. I want to read it
and support it, so please do let me know how
I can do that. And in terms of how reading
helps us heal, you know, I think a lot of
us are social now, a lot of us, girl, let's
be honest, Okay, our society makes us feel like you
(29:38):
can't perform to far, there's something wrong with you. And
so I think by connecting with story, first of all,
knowing your history, right, like understanding our lineages, what our
inherited traumas are, our inherited gifts are, really tethers us
to a sense of self identity that's more honest. Because
(29:58):
there's stories that we tell ourselves and then there's stories
that are true. And I think it's important to know, Like,
first of all, you know what I'm saying, Like my
parents parented me from the place in which they could parent,
What tools did they have, what were they lacking? How
did that inform what I get or didn't get? So
that you don't tell a story about yourself, that's that's
(30:19):
just not true. And I think that's so important and
that's a beautiful way that we read and connect the
story because it's truth telling. And I worry that with
our current you know, administration, with the erasure of our stories, Like,
buy every history book you can and build your personal
library because you're going to need to. We need those
(30:40):
healthy mirrors, especially as BIPAC people.
Speaker 6 (30:44):
So when we're talking about.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
Like intergenerational healing, when we're talking about inherited trauma, inherited gifts,
but also just like realizing that, you know, our society
is shifting in a dangerous way where we don't value
Celtics expression uniqueness in the arts, and you have to
know who the fuck you are and express that and
(31:06):
not be apologetic about it, and that good necessary trouble
is a gift. Like being able to be queer, to
be courageous, to stand in your truth, and not just
to standing your truth for yourself, but to communitly express
that is a gift because there's somebody behind you that
needs your mirror and that maybe you being courageous enough
(31:27):
to express who you are help somebody else express who
they are, and that it's a vibration that you put
out into the universe, like that shit is so powerful
and it's alchemic and it's healing. And I think connecting
through story helps us to have those kinds of reflections
when the world doesn't validate the beauty of your uniqueness.
(31:50):
Being a therapist, I know this because I am able
to work like in the privacy of a therapy room
where people feel like it's more contained, it's not super visible,
like I'm not going to be so judged. Maybe you
can't judge me, but like, if we have a get
therapeutic relationship, hopefully you're cool. But I think when people
connect with story, there's no shame. It's like, yeah, I
(32:12):
feel the same way, or I I didn't know that
was possible and now I can see it for myself,
or I can see how like I want to be.
Speaker 6 (32:22):
A part of that.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
So yeah, you know, storytelling as a healing as a
healing mechanism, it's endless and limitless in the ways that
it can help us see ourselves for our authentic selves
and like provide fuel for that self expression in so
many ways.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 5 (32:44):
I mean I deeply appreciate how you name and your
work as the stories we tell and read have the
power to unite areadye andy, And it's so clear that
you you demonstrate the storytelling es central chory.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Healing, like you live out that value.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
And so I have, like I have like a prone
question because one thing I'm thinking about in this conversation
is how natives continue to be construed in a harmful
and often infactual ways, right, Like, our literacy for interpreting
stories is failing as people are believing false natives as
fact and it feels like no one seems secure, But
what is that?
Speaker 3 (33:17):
What actually is truth? And I love your point.
Speaker 5 (33:19):
I love your point of like like how you said it,
but you were like there's like your feelings and there's
like there's a true right, and so like can I ask,
as a counselor and writer, like how do you seek
truth and hold truth in your own storytelling?
Speaker 3 (33:35):
And then for people who.
Speaker 5 (33:36):
Want to share their stories, how like how might they
when they're also scared of the response or fear that no.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
One will listen or that they'll construe it into fiction.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Okay, not these on Yama ask questions, but go off?
Sorry sorry, since that, I'm like, whoa, that was deep?
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Go off?
Speaker 4 (33:54):
Listen, where's the weed? Where? Yes?
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Let me go from my general red let's just go
roman with will.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
Blind bitch what? Okay? Let me get serious. Okay, first, it's.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Real, it's real, it's deep.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
De Can we break it down into two questions?
Speaker 3 (34:19):
I got you, I got you, I got you? Okay,
so just for you right?
Speaker 5 (34:22):
The first one is like, as a counselor Marty, how
do you see truth for your stuff?
Speaker 3 (34:27):
And how do you hold truth in your own storytelling?
Speaker 4 (34:29):
How do I seek truth for myself? I've learned, and
I'm still learning, and it's so hard. I don't think
I'm mastering this at all. But my shadow self is
such an integral, important part of who I am that
I've learned to not think about like categorizing my emotions
or my expressions of those emotions as good or bad either,
(34:50):
or you know, just being curious about my states, like
what comes up for me? Why where am I triggered?
Who's triggering it?
Speaker 6 (34:59):
You know?
Speaker 4 (35:00):
In my real authentic fears and securities places where I
feel like I just lack control. I used to run
from that awareness, and now as I turn forty in September,
I don't know how old y'all are, but your girls.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Going through it next month? Yes, you know what I'm.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
Saying, Happy early birthday, Yeah, Perry metopauseia like I'm going through.
So I'm like, you know, damn, Like I've been through
a lot of shit, and like, what do I really
feel and need and want as a black woman too?
It's just like, you know, wow, being a caregiver is
(35:39):
so much of my identity.
Speaker 6 (35:40):
Who am I outside of those roles?
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Like, yeah, what.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
Do I want for the next I'm like, Okay, I'm
a black woman. I'm probably gonna die by sixty. Let's
be honest in the next twenty years, bitch, Like, what
do I need to do to feel like a life
spend be fields? Yes, Like I really have given something
that's like, you know, a standard out here, because I
know my work and what I do with with people
(36:05):
in the in the privacy of my therapy room, but
that's invisible and I've had this whole other emotional experience
doing the work, you know, through public education, facing education
and social media and the internet, which is another realm
of bullshit. But all that's to say, I think it's
just about the showing up and the being who we are,
(36:28):
like operating in those gifts.
Speaker 6 (36:30):
It has taught me a lot. And what was the
second question?
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Where response to the first one? Thank you?
Speaker 5 (36:39):
As long as like like, it's this more advice for
folks who want to share their stories but are scared
of the response or the fear that no one wi
pay attention to listen to them, and or that people will.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Spend will spend their truth? That's fiction.
Speaker 6 (36:56):
Yes, oh, people spending your truth? That's fiction. Let's talk
about it. I think the first.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
Part question is really important because because you need to
know what your story is, there's always going to be
multiple versions of a story, right, Like that's why human
relationships are so difficult and convoluted and multi layered, because
you have a version of events and I have a
version of events, and we're on relationship to one another,
but we may disagree on how things went down. So
(37:24):
I think just like knowing, you're really being able to
get clear with yourself, and sometimes that state takes a
level of stillness and reflection that society won't offer you.
So how are you creating like a ceremonial, ritualistic way
to slow down, pause, reflect, turn in word and ask yourself,
(37:46):
what's my version of events? You know, once you get
clear with that, then you can really be like confident
in your sense of self and hear what someone else
has to say about their version of events.
Speaker 6 (37:57):
And even if you disagree, it's like, I respect that.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
Your version of events because, like relationships, again, you have
to be able to understand that somebody else may have
experienced something differently. Right, But I think that's a skill
that has to be like learned and cultivated.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Mm hmmm, hmm, that's right.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
I have no I was gonna also say too, to
add on to that, not to take away from your response,
because it was I think it was fan fucking tastic,
But I was gonna say, I think there's also a
part of me that you know, tell I would say this.
I want to pass this along to anyone who is
in the mind that they want to share their story,
they want to write their story, or that they're in
a place of like I want to tell the world
(38:38):
my story.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
You know.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
One of the things I got caught up on and
I had to work through with my therapists around this
was being afraid that the person that did the harm
or that caused me harm was going to read the story,
and being feeling like I had to kind of like
remove my feeling like I had to kind of like
not necessarily redact the story, but make the story pretty.
And my therapist came back to me and said, well,
(39:00):
and I talk about this in the book, I said.
You know, my therapist told me upfront. She was like, well,
if they're so, if if you're worried about what other
people are going to think about what you wrote about them,
they should have treated you better.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
However, that right, right, Like you can't.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Yeah, you may tell a story that may not always
be one hundred percent right in the minds of everyone else,
but there are stories, you know. But the reality is
is that my uncles were homophobic towards me, They were
transphobic towards me, and they were phobic towards me, and
it cost me harm. And so now in my book,
I'm talking about that and so if you know, yes
I can, I can offer them grace and say, yeah,
you know, they didn't know better. And it was a
(39:37):
different time and all that, but the reality was they
still treated me like shit.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
Was that your kiddie?
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Was that girl?
Speaker 4 (39:44):
Was that me?
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (39:47):
Let it out, Let it out, Let it out, Let
it out.
Speaker 6 (39:55):
Is everybody okay?
Speaker 1 (39:58):
I thought.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
No, I was looking so sorry. Hold up, what happened?
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Was it the kiddies?
Speaker 5 (40:09):
I think I got me a ghost bitch because Fernanda
on the fucking cat thing just chilling.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
That was why I heard it. I was like being
feul Yeah, I think it was from.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Meal baby baby, it was you? Was you was? I'm
sitting there about this.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
I got no work. What about that one?
Speaker 4 (40:29):
You know?
Speaker 5 (40:29):
And like like all good black folks, I'm on my
business and I know that problem be doing.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Don't be nothing and nothing that ain't got nothing, but
she's doing. I know that's right.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
But now with that being said, and after Christy cut
all of that out, Butterfly in the sky, I can't
go twice.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
Check look ship up book a reading rag all right?
Speaker 2 (41:00):
So now we have to take a break under the
reading rainbow, and when we get back, we are going
to talk more with our amazing guests.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Back in a second.
Speaker 4 (41:19):
Yo, is this a real podcast? Yes?
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Yes, yes, that's gonna be tied on an episode. Is
this a real podcast?
Speaker 3 (41:34):
I'm just saying you, like, I don't even I am.
Speaker 5 (41:42):
I really wish I knew what happened, Like I'm saying, ok,
it's not like it was close by. And I'm also like,
I'm in the middle of the kitchen, so I see everything,
and I'm like, there's nothing that happened by me.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Like my I was like, did like a picture bit
picture of fall? But like, no, I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
But you probably just hit your mic and it probably
was just really loud and it probably made it.
Speaker 5 (42:05):
But my hands were crossed.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
My hands are crossed on my legs.
Speaker 5 (42:11):
So that was But okay, ya, we're gonna keep it going, okay,
and we are back fam And what I don't want
to put you to work, Emily. I would love to
getjoy something of how you healing and put you to
work a little bit. Well, you know that drilling. Drilling
is a big part of the process. I love to
know how running size literature helps you rethink your boundaries.
(42:33):
I have some thoughts for myself as well too, But
I wanted to hear more from you. Firstly, then I
don't go. Then I'll pass the John Well.
Speaker 4 (42:40):
First of all, I think a lot of us don't
know what our boundaries are until they've been crossed. You know,
somebody step across the boundary, like hold up, who the
fuck you think you?
Speaker 6 (42:49):
And then.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Yeah, yep.
Speaker 4 (42:55):
I think that's the first thing. And so knowing what
your boundaries are and then letting those be expressed, like bitch,
that's a boundary, don't this is the gate.
Speaker 6 (43:04):
You can't do that to me. You can't say that
to me.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
To be addressed that way, whatever it is, setting the boundary,
but then reinforcing the boundary and learning a lot about
who people are in your life based on how they
do or do not respect your boundaries, because I think
I do want to say that. I think part of
what's hard about relationships today is that people are super
fragile and our egos are constant resulted by a false
(43:29):
sense of self importance, like, bitch, you still.
Speaker 6 (43:31):
Have to be a good human being.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
I don't give a fuck with good You asked that,
you gotta bbl you're white, you got apps, you still
gotta be a good human being. You're still accountable to
like a sense of character. And so I think there's
a way in which you know, boundaries have to be set,
they have to be expressed, being forced, and then we
have to be honest, emotionally honest about this person is
(43:55):
saying they're my friend, but they are they are or not,
you know, expecting my boundaries and especially with lovers, especially
with lover is because you know, a lot of our
attachment wounds and our early childhood stuff comes up strictly
and romantic relationships. So always be mindful of not letting
yourself be taken advantage of because like.
Speaker 6 (44:18):
They're good in bed.
Speaker 4 (44:19):
Okay, let's be honest because we all know we get
caught up, and I think.
Speaker 6 (44:23):
We need to be really like clear with you know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (44:27):
It's just like completely like what's going on, Like I'm
addicted and so I think boundaries are so crucial to
healthy relationships. But when we think relationship, we think and
other I'm talking about ourselves, like relationship with self, And
how does that manifest in.
Speaker 6 (44:44):
My ability inability.
Speaker 4 (44:46):
Or struggle to cultivate a healthy version of relationship with another?
Speaker 3 (44:51):
Yeah, real, nothing but work.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Literally, y'all.
Speaker 4 (44:59):
Watch Couples of Therapy on Showtime by the way, is
talking about that show, and I have yet to watch
it here true to psycho analysts. Listen, watch Couples Therapy
on show time.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Okay, question for you before before you go, Joe, question
for is it a reality show or is it a
scripted show?
Speaker 6 (45:19):
It's reality. She's actually.
Speaker 4 (45:24):
Psycho analysis working with couples in New York City. It's phenomenal.
It's probably the most I've seen on therapy. Yeah, because
you know you have like therapy on these TV shows,
but this is real therapy, like true to how we're trained,
true to the ethic, true to the source.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
Is that girl okay? Interesting? So interesting.
Speaker 4 (45:50):
Square couples, she got polyamorous couples.
Speaker 6 (45:54):
I just love the show. It's cyverse representation.
Speaker 4 (45:58):
That girl.
Speaker 5 (45:59):
Okay, well, thank you, this is so interesting. Wow Okay.
I feel like because like I just love so much
like you naming like we all have to be like
we also be like accoumble to ourselves to be good
being good people still because I think, like I think
(46:19):
so much about like when people use therast speak right,
like like therapy talk as like there are ways of
saying like oh, like there's difference because my thoughts boundaries
are great and we have to uphold them ourselves and
we actually can't like like, we can communicate our boundaries,
but like, we can't be upset with people from jump
(46:40):
when they cross the boundy because they don't know about like,
they won't know what the boundary is until you tell
them and like like and once you tell them, like
then they have a mission to act to act on it.
But you also have to like responsible for your own boundary.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
To and like and but and I think people like.
Speaker 5 (46:56):
People like they are responsible for accountable for it. I
love that you like like like, we are fragile people
and like we all we all don't want to be hurt.
But like but but like like, safety unfortunately isn't a right.
Speaker 3 (47:09):
It's a privilege, and I wish it was a right
for us. I wish, like I wish if he was
a right.
Speaker 5 (47:13):
But it's a privilege that we that we that we
don't always get and we have we have to find
out the best ways to say, to maintain safety for
ourselves and ask others in communient with us, like like
how they can keep us safe and understand that sometimes
safety will be broken and you can repair it as
well too, like I think so many folks, so many
of us like distance ourselves from connection for the say,
(47:36):
like like for the sake of self protection or to
your point, like the sake of self importance with like
without like understanding that like we as a people are
actually made to be interdependent and we can't do that
if we like set this walk up real quick and
say naw, girl, like that'shl not pass but shut up,
and like it's also I feel like.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
I'm a fairy tale. I love this so much. You're
such a great oral storyteller. I've like envisioning this as
you're talking.
Speaker 7 (48:02):
Literally giving yeah, you're still thank you, You're You're so sweet,
thank you because I recently heard that I'm just a
mumble mouth motherfucker on some other podcasts.
Speaker 5 (48:13):
Okay, yeah and still him forever, but go on that
ship was so funny that it was so you're better than.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
Me because I still have I was.
Speaker 5 (48:23):
But but like literally, like I think I'm like I
think a lot about the human conditions so so much
like there are times where I there times where I
wish I embarked on doing like therapy as like as
a quessioner major, I often think like I could not
be there because I would actually be the girl that's like, yeah, girl,
he was wrong.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
You tell his eyes he was done.
Speaker 6 (48:44):
You was you was.
Speaker 4 (48:47):
I have a great career.
Speaker 3 (48:53):
Thank you. I am so much the house.
Speaker 4 (48:57):
Girl, nor girl.
Speaker 5 (49:00):
How about we let's let's cut our sessions short. It's
it'saw me today.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
Girls do it. Let's go do it. Let's go do it.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
I'll be.
Speaker 3 (49:11):
Listen, okay. Because shrinking that show had the right idea.
Speaker 5 (49:14):
I was like, no shrinking after the idea, like mytherapist
should be should be in the trenches with me, help
me and stuff, and so yeah, I I just I
like I I really I really do love like like
I think, like like everything everything we do is like
we're all we're all fighting to be loved. We're fighting
(49:37):
to be seen, like we're fighting to be heard and held.
Speaker 4 (49:41):
Isn't it exhausting?
Speaker 6 (49:42):
Why we got to keep fighting?
Speaker 2 (49:44):
And that's that's the thing my therapist always reminded me about.
She was like, you shouldn't have to fight for but
I hear you because we want it.
Speaker 5 (49:50):
We wanted like but like, but but we're fighting, like
we're fighting ourselves. We're fightding each other, is how I
see it sometimes, Like like we're fighting because I say,
funning because like we like we don't know how to
open up and be vulnerable, and so we have to
fight ourselves to do that. And then others with others
don't know how to receive us or don't like bright
and said asking questions. They make statements and it's like,
(50:12):
girl like wait wait wait, wait see I'm always with
you when you write Joe, say that again, he said.
Instead of asking my questions, people make statements. And that's
say I shoot myself all the time. Whenever, like whenever
I'm playing myself being activated and I say something, I
type it out, I'm like, during, why am I actually
trying to get here?
Speaker 3 (50:33):
And let me ask a questions?
Speaker 5 (50:35):
Let me don't say something yeah, like like let me
ask you instead of saying something.
Speaker 1 (50:40):
Yes, Yo, you in your bag today?
Speaker 2 (50:45):
Girls, you are you are in your traders Joe bag,
trader Joe bags.
Speaker 3 (50:56):
Being incommunity with y'all is really met my ship. So
thank you.
Speaker 4 (51:03):
I can ask you a question your yes, Sam okay,
So I want to speak to this because you name
something so crucial about what makes relationships hard, Like we
want to make statements right instead of being open a connection,
but like that make the statement is such an integral
part of it, right, Like I make a statement to myself,
(51:24):
I name who I am instead of letting others name
who I am. And so how does my like my
strength is self possession. I can name myself for myself.
But then I meet another and I want to connect
and like I'm so aggressive about that name. How do
I find a way to like let the other name
me and connect to my energy and be in a
(51:47):
relationship to me?
Speaker 3 (51:51):
Damn? Okay, So actually I do think about this a lot.
Speaker 4 (51:58):
This is like.
Speaker 3 (52:01):
I'm I think a lot. John, I know, I know
we have the time, so I'm gonna try and like
answer briefly with this. We still got twenty minutes, Okay.
Speaker 5 (52:09):
I was like, well, I know, John, go too, So uh,
this is a true question, Emily, and like let me
first like like disclaimerate y'all.
Speaker 3 (52:16):
I'm not a therapist. I am not I I am
not a live coach.
Speaker 5 (52:20):
Like this is just my thoughts as a person, right,
I think one a lot about It's like my my
my Jewish.
Speaker 3 (52:26):
Is really important to me, Like Jewish expression really important
to me.
Speaker 5 (52:29):
My Jewish values and they're in like like in Jewish
culture tradition, there's this phrase called Hannani, which means like
I am here, I have arrived, and so we like
when you say like like naming yourself like han Nani's
when I think about a lot, I did a whole
poem about about Hanani before, or like a spoken word piece,
because it's about like naming who I am, and like
like like my like my name needs to just send
(52:50):
or flow like I say, like my name means to
send or flow. I'm a river for truth and clarity,
and so I invite you to to speak with me.
I let you to flow with me, and so like
Hanani is the way that I can name myself with others.
But I have to remember remember And I love that
you say like self possession, right, because only I can
possess myself, but I have to I also acknowledge that
I can't control perception.
Speaker 6 (53:11):
And say that and so when I share, But in fact.
Speaker 5 (53:16):
It like when I like when I show up as
myself and name myself to people, I have to remember
after be mindful that like that one when one how
I name myself may not always compete with them, may
not always compete with them, right, like how I talk
to them and not be how they actually want to
be talked to, and so I have to think about
how how they receive me, and then like, like I too,
(53:38):
I do want to be named by others, and I'm
curious of what they name, and I think I have
to go in with like a I have to go
and open with no uctation of saying in tuctation like
when they name me, try it on if I if
I if I don't like it, if I don't like
if I don't like it, I'd be like, no, a girl,
(53:59):
I appreciate that actually is not the name for me.
Speaker 3 (54:01):
So I thank you for your time.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
No y'all, I mean y'all, are y'all are in it?
I'm literally just sitting here being like all of these
things are things that I have processed out and have
talked to my therapist about, Like even the idea of
you know, why people why I'm so I'm very particular.
So this is totally going away from my response, but
why I'm so intentional about people calling me John versus
(54:33):
calling me Jonathan. And for me, it's like I don't
want people calling me Jonathan unless they really know me.
And there's there's this whole thing John is, Yes, John
is playful John. It's fun John's everything. But even down
to my name, right, what is the name you've given
me versus the name I give you? And I tell
people you call me John, do not call me Jonathan
because you do not know me that well, you don't
(54:53):
know me like that.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
And it's a control thing. And and I know it.
Speaker 2 (54:56):
I know there's a whole bunch of psycho analytic pieces
that could go into that. But I think about that
a lot, like what's in a name? And I know
that there's been various conversations about that, right, But this
whole idea of who am I and and and and
that's a boundary too, right, Like when I tell people
to call me John, that is a boundary. I'm setting
what somebody and saying, until you really get to know me,
then you have the right to call me Jonathan. But
(55:17):
until then it's John. And that's that on that right.
But I definitely think that there's something in that. I
want to say this real quick before we have to
scurry out of this segment. I will say I think
one of the things that I've learned both from you know,
hearing you, following you Emily, and then also just shit
that I've learned throughout my own process of writing my
own book, right, is that too a big part of
(55:40):
of these boundaries and writing, Like I think writing in
all of the articles I've done and all the stuff
that I've done, I learned that a lot of my
writing helped me understand how to tell people how to
love and treat me.
Speaker 1 (55:51):
Right.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
I got so used to people kind of just saying
and doing whatever they they they they wanted.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
To do to me.
Speaker 2 (55:58):
Then as I started writing, and I started really like, oh, bitch,
like I actually can be that girl, and I have
the right to tell people how they they should show
up for me or not show up for me like that, Like,
writing helped me get there, And so I think that
that was a boundary I never had before. You know,
my book came out now BFF is like a blueprint
to telling somebody like you have the right to tell
(56:19):
people how to treat you, and if they don't treat
you the right way, and you have the right to
cut them off or you have the right to cut
them out, do.
Speaker 1 (56:26):
As you may.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
But I think that that's that's the That's the thing
I think is so important and in all of this
is that I think that writing really gives people a voice.
Oftentimes I feel like writing, I feel like journaling. I
feel like all of those things are a voice for
the voiceless and a lot of time.
Speaker 4 (56:44):
So yes, before we end, I just got to say
one thing I love about your book too, is the
way you honor your black mother's voice, like she loves
you and you love her, and like I I was
so like, that's what I took so much away but
from my motherhood journey, I took that away from the
(57:06):
way you write your mom on the page.
Speaker 6 (57:08):
It's like, yo, you know, like.
Speaker 4 (57:11):
Your mother was really that girl, and I didn't know
how much you know what I'm saying, like how much
motherhood takes from someone just to the sacrifice, the love,
the grit, the grind, and like every step of the way,
she was the one being there by her side, like yo,
be you be great, be beautiful. And I know, as
a therapist, like my young especially my young queer black youth,
(57:36):
like the ones that are super clear, and I think
so much of our episode has been about clarity, self identity,
self discovery. Those of the youth that have been super
clear have been the ones with caregivers who've just been loving,
like yo, like you're my baby. Be great yea. And
when I think about what I want to be enforced
(57:59):
and the young that I work with in the age
where Trump is president and he's really trying to erase
our stories, is like, yo, you know you.
Speaker 6 (58:07):
You're not a unicorn.
Speaker 4 (58:08):
Actually there's a whole not at all that's behind you,
and like will be great, you know yep.
Speaker 2 (58:15):
So shout out to your mom, shout out, shout out
to queer people because it is prime, but also shout
out to shout out to the parents who love their
kids fully. And I think that's what I've learned in
all of this work, parents who genuinely give their kids
the autonomy to be themselves and love them, love their kids.
My mom included, Edwina included. We also shout out, I
(58:38):
saw your story, Jordan, And I want to shout out
Deborah because I know she listens to the show. You know, Mama,
she also is out there supporting you, and I love
that for us, you know, shout out to the black mom,
shout out to black mama.
Speaker 5 (58:54):
And she's halfway through your book too, which is very special. Yes,
that meant MS girl does not miss girl does not
does not be books. She is not a big book reader.
And she's like, I'm not of the book she tell
me about it, and.
Speaker 3 (59:03):
I'm like, okay, girl, Yeah, she's coming into the game,
and I let us see it.
Speaker 5 (59:08):
We love we we love moms and all, and we
love moms and mothers of all genders and space. Okay, y'all,
we have we have one more break to take. When
we come back, we go jump into y'all fairite SEGGI
with no man PAMs back in just to say.
Speaker 1 (59:34):
All right, y'all.
Speaker 2 (59:35):
So this week we are jumping into our yes ma'am
and our no man segment. This is where we either
give people flowers or like like we say, we throw
them at him. This week, mine is gonna be very short,
sweet to the point. This year, this week, this year,
that's how it feels. It feels like we've literally been
living a year and a month this this week, I
want to give my yes ma'am. Obviously, of course I
(59:57):
know you're gonna get into it, Joe, so I don't
want to step on you too much, but I definitely
want to say shout out. And I actually wanted to
say this at the top of the episode, shout out
to all of the people who are helping people organize
and do what they need to do to get these
ice people up out of their city, out of their areas.
I see it happening both in LA. I see it
happening not in LA, and I'm just so grateful. I'm starting,
(01:00:18):
Like I said, I've been feeling it for the last
couple of weeks, and I definitely want to say like,
I'm starting to see this collective, like we got to
have each other's back right now, and I'm seeing it happen.
It's so many different factions, and I'm so happy to
see it. So I hate that we're here and I
hate that we're having to do what we're having to do.
But I also wanted to shout out all of the
people that are actively working to make sure that people
(01:00:38):
get the protection that they need and stay protected the
way that they deserve.
Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
So I wanted to say that.
Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
The other thing I wanted to say to just kind
of out there brothers of the Desert. They actually hosted
me this past week out in Palm Springs. I have
never seen black elders be so kind and so loving
and so welcoming.
Speaker 4 (01:00:57):
To me.
Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
And it was just a beautiful thing to experience, and
so I wanted to take my platform to say, brother
of the Brothers of the Desert, thank you for including me,
thank you for helping me feel seen, thank you for
helping me feel valued for the work that I'm doing.
And I'm so grateful that you are doing what you
do and that I get to witness that from both
my you know, online experience and then also in person.
(01:01:21):
The other thing I wanted to say in terms of
no Man Pam So this week I definitely wanted to
say again I said we were going to talk more
about it, and we're actually running out of time. So
I'm just gonna say this, snide white women who try
to act surprise when they get clocked for their oppressive ways.
I've seen it happen in several iterations. And it's not
just Patty Lapone who I want to pin here. There
(01:01:41):
are a lot of white women in the media who
do this thing where they say and do things and
then they.
Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Go, oh my god, it that's not what I mean. Nah, bitch,
I know what you meant.
Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
I know what you I know what you meant to say,
and you're trying to act like you're not, Oh, I
didn't know. Nope, nope, nope, nope. Let's clock it. Let's
call a spade a spade. I know what you're saying,
I know how you're saying it, and I definitely appreciate
when people clock them.
Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
The other thing.
Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
I also wanted to say shrink flation, because I opened
up a bag of chips this week?
Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
Why was most of the bad air you meant and food?
Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
I was like shrink as in like therapist, you know,
shrin mean.
Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
I catch, I'm catching it. These stores think.
Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
They slip you won't TRYE seven, but there's only five
chips in the fucking bags lays.
Speaker 5 (01:02:37):
I'm looking at all of y'all niggas. Why are why
is the fucking.
Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
Dollars?
Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
I had to say it. I just had to say.
Speaker 3 (01:02:49):
Emily, we even do all the in the show. Okay,
we as fools, and we are fools. Would drop Jawn's okay.
Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
We are very educated people this look. But I also
like to call the state to stay. I know what
you're doing. Fucking pringles. Why are those pringles fort Islands?
And there's only five pringles in the fucking can? What
is that?
Speaker 5 (01:03:13):
Huh?
Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
Okay, Joe what are your what are your.
Speaker 3 (01:03:20):
Please?
Speaker 5 (01:03:26):
Okay, I got okay, okay, okay. So my series will
be able to catch a breath from this. So my
name is gonna be too Los Angeles. This resistance to
ICE and the deployment of National cord because we'recording this
week before it drops, I'm curious of how this week
will play out. But the deployment of the National Guard
is a gross party by the administration. And it's amazing
(01:03:49):
powerful to see resistance on the streets by the people
of l A. Like I pray people remain safe and
care for each other, but I like, love, love how
people are showing up.
Speaker 3 (01:03:59):
It is amazing, like this, this is right, This.
Speaker 5 (01:04:01):
Is what This is what community and interdependence looks like
in practice, and so it's beautiful to see that.
Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
Two things, my no man had my two l two things.
Speaker 5 (01:04:12):
First of all, it's for it's it's forever fuck ice
in the system of policing, like like it's fun all
that all the time, twenty seven But do you want
to name as well?
Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
This is like a hot take maybe, but like.
Speaker 5 (01:04:24):
People talking about how balance gets things done and that
violence is an articulation of liberation work and like if
that's if that's someone's m like work, girl, like that's
why you But like I want to stress that I
like I my like I can't express my my vision
of liberation to any handley and clue violence like to
incite violence is exactly what maintains the systems to be
(01:04:46):
against us.
Speaker 3 (01:04:47):
Like like like like we we we cannot and will
not like we cannot like will not like this.
Speaker 5 (01:04:52):
Mental health with masters tools and balances that tool now
I'm offering in self defense, okay, and if against.
Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
Violence mean does.
Speaker 8 (01:05:03):
Okay, there's a there there is a there is a
there is a thin line like don't go out and
cause chaos.
Speaker 3 (01:05:15):
But if you but but funk around, find out to
my door, okay, like and like I roll with the
I thought was that heavy.
Speaker 4 (01:05:23):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
I took on a brown belt. I took myself. I
took my substance classes.
Speaker 5 (01:05:29):
Girl like I got sha okay if if if I
if I's story uh uh a tear gas and me, I'm.
Speaker 3 (01:05:42):
It's not yours, it's not mine, it's yours. Take your
ship back.
Speaker 5 (01:05:45):
But like, but I like I want to stress that
like people like when you talk about like like just
going out and doing violence that is a supper slope
can get you messed up, can get your homie messed up.
Speaker 3 (01:05:57):
So I want to be really careful with that.
Speaker 5 (01:05:58):
Like please don't like like, don't take it to that,
to that age, because that's exactly like we people who
receive sensation.
Speaker 3 (01:06:07):
Balance all the time.
Speaker 5 (01:06:09):
Is like like it like that that I don't believe
that actually will not be in the change that we
want to see around us.
Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
And before you go, Emily Rove, I was not to
cut you off to I was gonna say, Dalli's if
you so I don't again, I don't know that this
episode is gonna comeut in a couple of days.
Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
I don't know where we'll be in a couple of days.
Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
But what I will say is that if you are
showing up to assist in these situations, please be careful.
Please be careful, wear a mask, make sure you turn
your phones off, make sure that someone you know is
going with you or knows where you are. Please yes,
like I'm I I beg of thee that if you
are going to go out here and you're going to protest,
(01:06:46):
I respect it, I hear it, I see it, I
understand it. But please make sure that you're not just
going out there because you're seeing it on social media,
and that you are actively doing what you have to
do to protect yourself and to protect others, because these
people they're looking for re into unlive you. They're looking
for a reason to cause harm to you. They're looking
for a reason to call more, cause more trauma. And
I don't I don't want any I don't ever want
(01:07:08):
it to come back to us to hear that. You know,
somebody that we know in love that's close to the
show got harmed because they went out, you know, and
again trying to do the right thing, which you right,
we should all be alarmed by all of the shit
that's happening in our country, but I definitely want people
to be safe.
Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
So I just felt the need to say that behind you, Joe,
I'm sorry.
Speaker 6 (01:07:27):
Yeah, thank you for saying that.
Speaker 1 (01:07:30):
Yeah, Emily, do you have any s mans or no
ma'ams before we go?
Speaker 4 (01:07:36):
My only yes, ma'am is girl, keep being yourself. Yeah,
shine right is needed, and it takes courage and they
ever feel divinely protected because that's the thing about light
work is that part of light work is a mastery
of the dark arts. And you're always going to confront
darkness that's in challenge and opposition and maybe antagonistics of
(01:07:58):
who you are, who you're trying to become, but love
yourself enough to become that. And we're rooting for you,
and you're supported by community ancestors who come behind you
and am covering you. And that's my guest, ma'am. And
I know, ma'am is like anybody who don't fuck with you, Okay,
I don't like I don't like you neither.
Speaker 3 (01:08:19):
Yeah, yes book, yes, yes, yes, And I will be.
Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Putting the link in.
Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
I will be putting the link in our show notes
for for our friends to buy the book. And like
I've said on this show before, and I will keep saying,
when when folks write articles, when folks write books, especially
black and queer folks or black folks, whoever is marginalized
when they do something in this this sphere, we've got
to support them because the industry is looking for any
(01:08:49):
type of way to say that our stuff is not
you know, our stories are not important, or that no
one's looking for our stories. So please go out and
by Emily's book. I definitely think you know what, actually,
you know what I might end up doing I think
I'm a buy So how about that, how about we
do this. The first person that emails us when they
listen to this show, I will send you a copy
of Emily's book.
Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
How about we do that? We do that whoever emails us,
but we'll get you. We'll get you. Whoever the show first,
We'll send you a copy of the book.
Speaker 2 (01:09:20):
So that way work that way, yeah, So that way
we can support the dogs and that the girls get
what they deserve.
Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
All right, y'all.
Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
So with that being said, we got to wrap up
this episode. Please send us your thoughts, feedback and email
to Blackfeffemnpot at gmail dot com. We love getting your notes.
Shout out to the folks who have sent us some
really kind notes and have said that our last few episodes, yes,
they was heavy, but at the same time, they were
very healing, and so I'm happy to hear that they're
they're you know, folks are listening and folks are getting
what they need from the show. That's what we intended,
(01:09:49):
what we set out to start the show three years ago,
and we are just so happy and thankful that everybody is,
you know, basically, we're all we're all healing together, We're
all doing the work together. We all got to support
and love one another in this time. So with that
being said, if you want to interact with us, if
you don't want to interact with us in the emails,
and you'd like to send us a message, go ahead
and shoot us a message over at Instagram or on
(01:10:09):
blue Sky or even on threads at Black fatfem pod
Uh know that it is spelled b l K and
not black because ultimately Instagram was playing in our face. Emily,
where can the dolls find you if you want to
be found or where would you like to be found?
Speaker 4 (01:10:28):
At l I T E r A p y Underscore
n y C, at Instagram, Tec, at threads, and at
Literapy n y C dot p O d I A
podia dot com.
Speaker 6 (01:10:43):
For y'all, thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
Stay yes, stay black and stay cleeer doing both pride
with and all. What I will say is for those
I also put the link to your site as well.
There's some really good resources over at your site as well,
so I'll put your website up there for folks, but yes,
please follow them.
Speaker 3 (01:11:02):
Very healing.
Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
I have been so happy to be connected to you
and I'm glad that the universe may make sure that
our timelines crossed.
Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
So I'm just really excited. Joho, where would you like
to be found this week of Chris My Loves?
Speaker 5 (01:11:14):
You can find me as you do every week at
Jojo Dann's across all the socials my website John Danees
dot com. If not that, you can find me, you
can find me. You can find me flegging some uh
some of some of tear gas back to that's right,
you got the wrong one.
Speaker 1 (01:11:32):
Today, bitch, today, tomorrow and next week, okay.
Speaker 3 (01:11:37):
And yesterday and last year and next year and the
whole way.
Speaker 1 (01:11:40):
Man, what what cardib saying? Forever?
Speaker 5 (01:11:43):
But the wrong one forever? You got the wrong one forever?
I know that's right? Ask for me and mine.
Speaker 2 (01:11:50):
You can always head over down to the ww dot
doctor John Paul dot com to.
Speaker 1 (01:11:54):
Find out more information.
Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
Specifically, I have about eight more stops on this book tour,
so if you want to catch me somewhere, feel free
to do so.
Speaker 1 (01:12:02):
But I'm telling you all right now, I already got
people be like, oh, what are you gonna do?
Speaker 4 (01:12:05):
I'm not at no.
Speaker 2 (01:12:07):
More dates after July eighth. July he is the last date.
I'm not going nowhere. If you want to see me,
it will be virtual. I'm not doing nothing else. So
with that being said, if you want to catch me,
catch me.
Speaker 1 (01:12:21):
Why you can't.
Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
You can also find me down on socials at Doctor
John Paul everywhere. And yeah, if there's anybody listening in
here who want to help me sell the rights to
this damn book. Now that the book is out and
it's you know, we're so close to three cave.
Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
Yes, you see it. Yes, if you're if you're watching
two bad books next to.
Speaker 4 (01:12:43):
Your all natural, yes, all natural?
Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
Oh no BBL, bitch no BBL.
Speaker 3 (01:12:52):
I love to see it.
Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
With that being said, we want to thank our producer
Bai Wang for handling all the logistics related to Black
Fat FM, and everybody at iHeartMedia who continues to keep
this show up and running.
Speaker 1 (01:13:03):
We love y'all. We thank you for your support.
Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
We want to also shout out our wonderful editor Chris Rogers,
because without him, we would have no audio and we would.
Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
Have no visuals for the show. I mean, y'all wouldn't
be able.
Speaker 4 (01:13:14):
To see our lovely faces down to the dudes of you.
Speaker 3 (01:13:17):
Okay, it's Chris thank you, Chris.
Speaker 4 (01:13:20):
You.
Speaker 2 (01:13:20):
With that being said, stay black, fat, femine, fabulous, and
remember what joho.
Speaker 5 (01:13:25):
We may not be a cup of tea girl, but
as I said before, and I spend but because my
sol Aga, because you need anyways, bitch.
Speaker 1 (01:13:31):
I know that's right. We love you for real, Love
y'all for real, b
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