That Dopamine Hit

This week your BFF's dive a bit deeper into the DEI conversation, while touching on a much needed conversation around capitalism and asking the question, "Can capitalism ever be equitable?" We also get into why Bojangles (didn't) hit in Las Vegas and why people need to walk their dogs on a leash. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Black Fat Felm Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
and Doctor Sean Paul LLC. Hey, everyone, welcome to another
episode of the Black Stuff Film Podcast, where all the
intersections of identity are celebrated. I am John also known
as Doctor John Paul, and in one hundred and thirty

(00:21):
three episodes, I have never yelled at a girl like this?
How dare you Bojangles? So storytime, Chris, can you go
ahead and put some music behind the storytime? Use the
mo music, the use the so so. Me and a

(00:43):
friend to the show Travail. Last week we went to
bo Jangles as you both, as everybody knows Me and
Travell both were perusing around creating change, and so we
decided one of the days that we both didn't have
none of you were like, let's go get somebody. So
we went to Bojangles because they just opened it in

(01:04):
Las Vegas, Nevada. Oh and for those that don't know,
Bojangles is like starting to take over like the West Coasters. Actually,
like so they opened I think there's one that is
finally open in Las Vegas. But they also have another
location that they're getting ready to open in Las Vegas
and then from what I understand, and I don't know
how real or true this is, but they're saying that.

(01:27):
I guess like two or three are supposed to open
in LA in the next couple of months. So anyway,
we decided to go to the one in Las Vegas,
and girl, we got in line and as me and
Treval were looking at the menu, I'm looking for the
chicken chicken, right like, I'm looking for the chicken because
I believe their chicken is the best chicken. And you know,

(01:47):
they only have the audacity to have tenders, only chicken tenders.
Chris insert a gas Yes, well.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
When you say that, you mean like they was out
of the chicken.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
No, they they don't make it. They don't make it, girl,
they only make tenders. And I just I said, not
only like like not one piece of chicken on the bone,
like the way I wanted to And the gag was
the line was hell along like the like the drive
through line was long, the inside line was long, and

(02:22):
I wanted to leave. I was like, if I would
have known, I wouldn't have been so amped about this.
I literally would have went somewhere else. But anyway, you know,
first wall problems first world problems. But my god, I
just I definitely need Like I wanted to put my
Karen Wig on and say I want to speak to

(02:42):
the manager, but you know, we were already there. There
was nothing we could do about it, so I just
wanted to go ahead and just say, like, for my
West Coast folks who have never been to Buljangles, please
do not let that be a representation of what I
believe is the best chicken in the world. If you are,
if you are from Atlanta, from South Carolina, from North Carolina,

(03:06):
any of the Carolinas, any of the South, you know
how good Buljegles really is. And it's just it's a shame.
It's a shame show we didn't get to celebrate the
chicken the way that we deserve to be. Anyway, girl,
enough of my ramblings about chicken.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
How are you, girl? Fam Hey Joho, And first I
just want to say I'm sorry for your loss. I'm
sorry that the West Coast Jangles did not do you
did the digit dirty? Not? Do you write? And you
know I I wouldn't. I would if they have it
in New Orleans because I'm going to New Orleans in

(03:46):
May and I I'm I haven't had but jingles yet.
You talked about a lot, and now I'm now I
have to go to an East coast one. The West
coast one is not is not giving with what you're giving.
So I am so sorry.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
What I will say is you you mentioning New Orleans.
You have to do a waffle house. It's not the
best experience, but it is bomb. But go but go out, yea.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
I will. Oh, I'm gonna do everything I can. I'm
doing everything I can. I'm gonna get my whole ass
life there. And besides that, I'm here to tell y'all
your listeners, take the mental health Day. Just take it.
And Trump's America. You need a girl, Tell your boss
you need the day, Take a bosh, you need the week.
I'm about to tell mine to just take the mental

(04:30):
health Day, y'all. I know, I know, I know you
see he listen to this like no, I you know,
I don't have the time, So I'll task to do.
The task will be there tomorrow, task will be there
next month, but you may not be if you if
you don't the little health day, girl, take it now,
because I am, I am this close and you can't
see my fingers, y'all, but they are they are not,

(04:51):
but it's sent them in your part. I am this
close to a mentv y'all need to take the day. Okay,
take the damn day. Take the day to day. M girl. Yeah,
AnyWho In tradition, to celebrate our famous, famous, favorite famous girl,
Miss Tishy Campbell and the fact that somehow, against all odds,

(05:14):
we are still here even though we're we're about to
get legislate out of existence. I want to I want
to start off the show by asking what's something the
current you, what's something in this current moment? The old
you was proud of the current you. Four Okay, old me,

(05:36):
it's proud of current me for not letting myself water
down my feelings. Amen. Amen. But I used to be
a oh it's fine type of bitch m hm some
of my feelings or said something pocket out of the
bitch that's like, oh it's fine, it's no problem, when
it was in fact a problem, te and current me
is like, actually, no, it is a problem.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
It is a problem.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
And I I appreciate you trying to, you know, officially
trying to give me an apology, but ash, we're gonna
do think this accountability, accountability. What you won't do anymore
is me looking at the fool. Is that okay? With
an atrocious ayes apology? What you're gonna do is is

(06:21):
is get some get some restoration, or we're gonna give
me some justice. I ain't got no time, not even
sitting here like no, it's totally fine. I don't mind all.
It's really it's actually my fault. It was not my fault. No,
it's actually not my fault, fault, it was actually not
my problem, my fault, my problem with my worry. It's
actually your worry. And now it's a problem. And now

(06:43):
I'm gonna be a problem for you.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
Amen.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
That's just how it's gonna be. I'm tired of I'm
tired of myself done. I'm gonna hide myself up and say,
next time you fuck with the bitch, you fuck with
the bull, bitch, you gonna get the horns.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
You gotta get the horns.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
You know that.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
You know what this reminds me of. So there's the
give slash meme of a young young black woman. I
don't know what her name is. I see her everywhere,
and she's from New York and there's like a moment
where you see her walk through a door and she's like, so, actually,
you know what, Actually, now that I think about it,

(07:19):
I'm a little pissed off. Yes, that's what that's giving
me of like when you when you used to be
that girl to be like, oh that's okay, that's fine,
that's not a problem, and then just after a while
you start thinking about, actually, you know what, that did
piss me off? And I'm actually gonna talk to you
about it because I'm not gonna let it eat me up.
I know that's right. I know that's right, you know.

(07:41):
So for me, I'll say this, I had a moment
this weekend where I easily could have flew off the
handle and the currently handled it.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
Why can't you just said confid once the flying up
the handle. I hope you're happy. I hope you're happy.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
Oh Jesus, yeah, very much. I was even thinking about
that when I wrote down. But ultimately, and that's that
that also goes to the show. I hope that you
get Yeah, I hope you are happy.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Handy, you're happy?

Speaker 1 (08:27):
Man? Yes, yes, yes, yes, I watch that again just
to put myself in a happy place. But no, I'll
be honest, it gooped me like it gooped like there
was like it was almost like I felt like I
split myself in half and I could feel the other

(08:48):
Jonathan getting ready to lose it, and the other mean
was like no, no, no, let's just go ahead and
handle this in a good way. And I walked away
from it. I said, damn, really grown. Like it was
like one of those moments where I was standing in
front of the elevator in my hotel and I said,
you know what, I'm really really proud of myself. And

(09:10):
it was like the old me looked at me and
was like, I don't know this, bitch. Yes, it was
just and it was over something that I don't want
to talk too much about it. But again, I used
to be that girl that was notorious for flying off
the edge and being like I was ready to go
off on anybody and everybody for anything and everything. And

(09:31):
in this moment that was like the first real time
that I caught myself feeling like, no, handle this in
a very you know, adult I'm not gonna say like
not grown, but handle this in an adult way.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
Solved.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
And it's still like, like I said, it's just especially
with how everything feels and how everything is. I told myself,
I said, you don't want to add to you don't
want to add to it, right, Like I think everyone's
on edge already and so it's like you don't want
to add that. So yeah, I just, like I said,
I was literally really really proud of me, Like when
I like when I took my shower and I laid

(10:07):
down in my bed and I turned on my iPad
to watch my Netflix, Like I genuinely was just looking
at myself in the reflection of my iPad screen and
was like that, You're proud of you for how you handle.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
You're doing a good job, a good Yes, that's exactly
what it's giving.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Girl.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
I'm proud of you for you have you for you. Also,
as we as we belted out, WICKI texted and said,
we're gonna get sue for that for that.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
Because she heard she.

Speaker 4 (10:40):
Said she said, said that's a copyright yeah, because I
know what some amount of second yeah yeah, yeah, either way,
I know what.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
She said about that. She said, she said, that's a
lawsuit girl.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
Not having their ear pressed to the door.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
She is, she is my pr manager. So she's like,
what we're not gonna do is get you twisted in this sky?

Speaker 1 (11:18):
Oh, my god, who been well?

Speaker 2 (11:20):
Now that we have to celebrate what we've been and
how far we have come, My God, because we have
come so far, copyrights be damned. We're gonna take a
short break. When we get back. We're gonna get into
some verbal voguing. Baby, but what I'll see into this
week's category. We'll be back in just a second.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
Oh God, all right, y'all, So this week we are back.
And what what I think? So I'll say this our listeners,
and whether you're new or old, you probably think we're
gonna take this conversation in the way you know we
normally would, But we're not. I wanted to chat this

(12:11):
week about something that I think everyone in their mama
is talking about, but I wanted to kind of put
a spin on it, just because I feel like I
don't want this conversation to be the old, redundant way,
like like, yes, we could sit here for like what
twenty thirty minutes talking about DEI and these models and
you know the importance and why we need them and
blah blah blah blah blah. But me and for those

(12:36):
of you who may not who may be living under
a rock. There's been a lot of companies, specifically companies
we know and love, that have given DEI the boot,
And while I think it would be important for us
to go through that and to talk through that, I
actually just kind of been putting this together, and me
and Joe Hoop, we're talking about this, you know, prior
to us recording it was, you know, we really wanted

(12:59):
to talk about something else. So I wanted to ask
the question this week, knowing what we know about DEI
and folks getting rid of it, I wanted to kind
of put a spin on it and talk about capitalism
and performative inclusion, and I wanted to chat surviving capitalism
as an intersectional queer. So with that being said, now

(13:23):
some of you are probably thinking, or you're probably you've
probably heard you probably hear this, and you're like, capitalism
and being an intersectional court, what the fuck? Like, what
the hell does that mean? And what I mean is
is that I think we have made mentioned several times
on the show that we believe that how we got here,
specifically in twenty twenty five is mainly because of capitalism,

(13:48):
and so I kind of wanted to like throw that
out as kind of of a thought of like, how
did we get to this point of these companies getting
rid of all of this stuff, and how like capitalism
fed into that, and then talking through kind of like
really just having a real conversation about like this moment
as much as everyone's focusing on, oh, this man in

(14:09):
office is doing this and these companies are doing that,
how all of this kind of ties back to a
bigger issue around capitalism. And I think that's something we've
never really addressed on the show. And so yeah, I
just want to tell if you have any thoughts before
we kind of jump into, you know, kind of the
education of it all.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
You know, I want to name capitalism and consumerism go
hand in hand. I think we're int to note that
capitalism is the system that drives our economy. I could
one going through frame it as our why where it's
consumerism is our expression of participation in that system, or
could be seen as our how right like our wise
capitalism or how it is consumerism. And I think another

(14:51):
reason why I think we arrived here is because our
country has been obsessed with being the richest at the
cost of our own people. Because to our country money
is our is our one of our expressions of power.
And if we can increase capital or our money, we
can create a society where big companies run everything and
we can inflex our power to everybody else. We also

(15:12):
manipulate people who live in this system to constantly consume
so they can articulate their own power and standing in
the mimistry that they too are a quote unquote forced
to be reckoned with via their participation in capitalism. So
it's a gross system that prioritizes individualism over everything. There's
no sense of community systems, which I want to name
because if we're talking about, you know, how we survive

(15:35):
as queer people, right, community is rooted in our culture
as queer people, and this system is inherently empathetical to that.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yeah, I okay, so so you know this. The segment's over.
Like we don't even I'm just kidding, Like, no, you
you really? Yes, you you said what needed to be said.
It really and wow, damn, Like I looking at your
thoughts and hearing you say that, it really brings to
mind like a lot of I wouldn't say the issues

(16:05):
I have, but the moments of when like like as
much as it's nice to have a little bit of
coin and to be able to pay your bills and
to be able to help your community. Right. And we
talked a lot about this, maybe two episodes ago, right
when we were talking about yeah yeah, where we're talking
about the eating fires and community and the need to
help everybody, right, there's still this element of capitalism even

(16:26):
in that because you know, as you all probably know now,
it's been almost a few weeks, the fires are still burning.
There are still fires burning in southern California, right, And
now you have these people that are you know, they're
trying to figure out how they're going to put their
lives back together. And now there are companies that are
swooping in that are saying, hey, we want your land.
We'll give you this this amount of money for you

(16:49):
to sell your home to us. And it's like, I
can't even process the pain of losing my home before
having to worry about all of the dollar value of
it all. Right, So it just a lot of it
does feel gross. And I think that's been the thing that,
you know, while I'm answering my own question, I think
it is so important for us to understand and really

(17:10):
kind of stand behind this notion of the idea that
these big businesses and I say big business, and what
I mean by that is not just like housing. I'm
talking about all of these businesses, specifically the businesses that
we see that are stepping away from DEI practices or
that are ultimately saying, let's turn down quote unquote, let's
turn down the identity politics in this work. They're doing

(17:33):
that because they recognize that to purport themselves as socially
aware also has a bottom line too, right, the bottom line.
And when we really talk about all of this, this
is the thing that I often tell people right to
your point, Joho, it's all about power, right, It's all
a power It's a power game. Right. And so if

(17:55):
you can, if you can make the most money as
a company, and I tell people this all the time,
it is expensive to do the right thing. That is
what we're seeing right now. Companies are not divesting from DEI,
not exclusively because they don't care about pleap. They never
cared about us in the first place. They never cared
about black people, they never cared about LATINX people, they
never cared about queer people. They don't care. The thing

(18:17):
is is that in order for you to do the
right thing as a company you have, it's gonna cost
you a lot of cash. It's gonna cost you a
lot of mullah paola. And in this world, there is
no equitable way to make money or stay rich unless
you recognize that being rich is about upholding a certain
level of privilege and access. So that's the thing I

(18:39):
think I kind of really wanted to get into. And
I know you have some thoughts about this, Joe hoo
Wright specifically naming that a lot of the capitalism that
we see a lot of you know, these companies are saying, well,
we're gonna roll back the DEI of it all that. Yeah,
it's it's it's just racism. It's built totally on racism.
It's built on a system of racism. And ultimately, I

(19:04):
can I just say this on the mic and then
and then I'll let you go. I was sitting with
this the other day and I just was going, like,
we like, I think we keep forgetting to name that
just this entire it's not even just our country, this
entire world is racist. And and and I'm not laughing
because it's funny. I'm laughing because I'm just kind of

(19:24):
like I don't know where I don't like, I don't
know why we're wasting so much air on and talking
about like, oh, these companies are doing I'm not gonna
shop at targeting. Maybe everybody's racist. Everything is built on racism, period,
So it's like I don't even know why people are
surprised but not don't let me, don't let me get
into my head about that.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
I mean, you're right, American capitalism was a built on
racial exploitation, right, Yeah, enslavement black folks to institualized discrimination,
and that structural impact our nation's economic and legal systems.
Like it's all, it's all racist. There's an art whole
by her name is Elizabeth Kennedy for Pro Market As

(20:02):
focuses on the headline is to build the eclabo economy,
we must understand capitalisms racist heritage, right, they write, creating
anical society requires us to examine understanding the history of
capitalism and its reliance on racialized oppression. There's this other
part in the in the which talks about like like
the the has about the upbringings of it. And there's

(20:23):
another line that says other countries cannot compete with a
nation that couldified a cast of workers as non human
and legalized violance as a management technique. So like so
you know, so like the idea of making bodies as commodities,
particularly black bodies, other immigrant bodies as commodities and legalizing
station lines against them as a way of management like

(20:45):
absolutely fueled our like like our our rise of capitalism.
There's also another quote end that says whether capitalism could
exist without racism ignores as as a story. Walter Johnson
affirms that there was no such thing as without slavery,
like like they actuallygnize this could it whether it exist

(21:06):
or not without without racism now does not do the
like still has to it still has to be present
to the fact that there's capitalism when I is this
without slavery in the first place?

Speaker 1 (21:17):
Right, which it yeah, to your point, and so if
we really really want to unpack that, right the dei
of it? All Right, everyone's like, oh okay, well, you know,
black and brown and marginalized people are not being given
the jobs. And there's a part of me that like,
here's that and kind of goes good because if we
really think about it, right, like, if we're talking about
capitalism as slavery. A lot of you've heard black people,

(21:40):
specifically black women, for years say I got this big
girl job, and I've gotten this job and everything fell
on me. So now it becomes my job to do
everybody else's job. And and you know, in the in
the organization or the company. So like the idea of
and again, I'm not saying that we shouldn't have any

(22:00):
practices in our companies. That's not what I'm saying. What
I'm saying is is that there is this idea that
and and and it's frustrating because it's also too. Like
someone had posted and I know, I'm all over the
place because you have a million thoughts. I saw someone
post that white women your DEI too, and it was yes,

(22:23):
you are.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
I'm sorry before nineteen before before what you're the nineteen
hundreds were you're not able to work yourself? Yeah, like
you are actually the recipient of original d irat not
just like that's how it was girl. Unfortunately you all,
you too were part of this process, whether you want

(22:46):
to be or not, it's right.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
And so I mean, hell, you couldn't even vote up
until nineteen fifty. So like I'm just I'm saying like
I think there's there's a lot of of there's so
many pieces and so many layers to this, and I
just think for me, like you know, when I question
about how are we surviving as an intersectional queer? You know,
and I know somebody probably were I know, we're probably
gonna get emails with questions of like, well, what do

(23:09):
we do? Like what like what can we do? What
do we do? How do how do we work through
this right of knowing? Like you know, But but I
think for me, and this is the thing I just said, like,
there's there's no equitable way to be like to consume
like that. That's just and it's and I guess that's
the reason why what I wanted to bring to the mic,
Like I think, you know, I see all these people

(23:31):
that are saying, oh, I'm not going to shop at
Target and I'm not going to shop here, and I'm
not going to shop there because they're not And I'm like, baby,
even without the even if they had all of the
best d I practices, they are still participating in capitalism
and there's still no equitable way to do that. So
my thing becomes like even if you say, well, I'm

(23:51):
not going to give them my money because I want
to make sure my money is going to the right
place I'm going. Baby, how everybody is participating in this
system in a very, very gross way, because that is
how the system is built. The entire system is built
for it to not be equitable. So you know, no
matter what you're saying, Like even even like I said,
even if they did uphold their DEI practices and continue

(24:13):
to do so, there are still upholding systems of discrimination
and the ways in which business feeds into that. There's
like there's just no So I guess that's a good question.
Can I ask you, do you believe that there is
an equitable way for anybody to consume? Okay, we ask

(24:35):
your big questions today?

Speaker 2 (24:37):
Well like girl giving me? Okay? So yeah, so like
I mean, so one thing, it's okay, So I love
this question. One thing I'm thinking about as well is
I just want to hark back to everyone's upset with

(24:58):
these organs, with these big b what about their DA policies,
because I also I want to be I want to
be clear, let us be clear in this moment of
like of like what's also happening and why? Right, Like
many of these companies roll back their DIA policies after
after the court ruling in twenty twenty three, twenty twenty
three that that basically ended a formative action, right like

(25:23):
many of them did. That wile of action is its
impacting like essentially essentially di I in schools. A lot
of businesses are worried that this that this like like
a lot of the reasons why whether whether these companies
want to want to do or not, right, like, part
of it is because it's being it's being it's being illegalized.

(25:43):
And so if they continue to do these things, then
like they can get sued and then they they could
like some organizations will say we'll take the hit, and
that's great, right, some businesses are not our seg we
can't do the hit because we're like them will close
all our banches across the across the country the world,
right and then no will have access to this place.
So like so I use that just as like not

(26:03):
as a not to give businesses a pass. So not
like I'm not saying the past, but I also want
to be but like like like it's not it's not
just that Seals woke up and Dane said, oh thank god,
Trump's here, we can just roll this ship back. It's
it's also kind of the to to cover their own
ass in some ways. And so I think you put
about echoable consumerism. I think like at the at the

(26:26):
end of the day, many of these organizations still many
many these businesses, Like, for example, I saw there's an
interesting point about Target. Right, a lot of people were like,
fuck Target, let's boycot Target. But there are a lot
of people who were also like, Okay, but there are
still great black owned brands or minory own brands who
still rely on their partnership with Target for their income.

(26:50):
And that partnership with partnership like requires people to go
to go buy their stuff too. Right now, I think
emitable consumerism would look like how is there a direct
line to that brand instead?

Speaker 1 (27:06):
Right?

Speaker 2 (27:06):
Like, like, I think the issue is that maybe Target
should not be the middle person involved. But Target also
has had the resources to increase their production, have the
resources to get their brand out there and give them
much stronger brandanity. Right, So, what are ways in which
in which we can also like, we can also do
that and and I and I and I juxtapose this

(27:28):
right with with Ranchesca Ramsey's you know just because the
last last episode, but with her point of just just
because being as a minority own does not mean that's
that's that's inherently great. And so I think, right with
them of equable consumerism, we have to think of how
do we support like our people in distributing great products

(27:51):
one right, how do we support those products that maybe
cut out a middle person who like like like who
can who?

Speaker 1 (27:59):
You know?

Speaker 2 (27:59):
I think the issues that target probably gives them money
up up up front, right, and so they can build
the business versus with people like then they have to
build the business in a slow way with like slow
income from us, right, or prices really really high as
well too, Like that's the other part is like having
a Boers is also hard because like, let's be honest.

(28:20):
You go, let's be honest, y'all. You go to a
nicety restaurant that's farm a table and the prices are
thirty bucks for play dinner, and you're like, I'm not
paying the bucks to this play dinner, right, Like we
also are like mad about, well, we gotta spend twenty
money on stuff?

Speaker 1 (28:35):
I know.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
Sometimes I'm like, is this play of chicken worth thirty
bucks just just to support my heart, right yeah, like yeah,
that is it that worth it? You know, cause soty
bucks can go a long way some days I can
give me two rounds to talk about with this or something,
you know. And so I think like partly part of this, truthfully,

(28:56):
part of this is also your own mindset. Like, right,
I think people, we're seeing that the systems around us,
the systems runners are not built for eble echable consumerism, and.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
I and it's intentional. That's intentional.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
And so I hate hate to put the onus on
us because I don't be because in the day, like
and so and so, I think in one way, right,
like we can be responded, like people can't boycott Target
or Walmart at in the day, people rely on those
things one because it's the only place that is in
their area that they can access and reach. Right, the
onus is not on them to have to dismantle that system.

(29:36):
And in that at the same time, the onness also
is on us to figure out a different way to
participate in a different formal consumerism because we know that
the systems around us are not built on purpose by
design to embrace a lens of echable consumerism. So I
think your question, like, is there a way to do it?
I mean, I honestly don't know how. I think part

(29:58):
of it comes down to how do you how do
we invest? Well, let me rephrase, there is a way how,
but it requires a lot more risk from us than
there is reward. And I think in the day, as humans,
we're all hardwired to like have risk to have reward.
We all want the low dupamine hit because our or

(30:19):
the culture that maybe not all humans, but Americans as
our culture, as our culture gives makes us do right.
Our culture har wires us to say we want to
have the hit of pleasures and pleasure and instant graviication.
And so are we willing to write like are we
willing to forsake Amazon Prime delivery in two days? And
you know, like like and use this black owned marketplace

(30:43):
brand instead too. But people don't want to sacrifice convenience,
and so I think, like, it's just a really hard way.
I think I think consumerism only begins truly. I believe
it only begins in like smaller intentional communities, right, Like
I only see it how in farmer's markets. I see
it only happen in like in commune like style places, right,

(31:06):
like those places as models where you actually can begin
to practice the level of echeable consumerism. But it's a
lot of work to do that as well too. It's
a lot of work to do that. So it's yeah,
it's hard, and I mean, obviously I don't have any
clear answer, and I'm not saying I want really clear
I'm not saying whether these things are right are wrong,

(31:28):
And I'm not trying to drag anybody like I'm dragging myself.
None of same thing. Like I also, to to fortake
convenience is really hard, right, But what I think about
a lot is like, right now, I live in a
place where can access many things by foot, and so
my privilege is that I can be a bit marketable
in my consumerism because I can walk to places, not

(31:49):
to dry to places or have things delivered. I can
walk and do those things myself, which is amazing. You know.
For example, right like John, like you like you live
in an area where you can't do that.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
You have to drive you to?

Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yeah you do?

Speaker 1 (32:01):
And yeah, and I mean you, oh my gosh, what
you just said is very much like I'm I'm fucking
with it so much because it's real it's and I
definitely want to say to your point, a lot of
this stuff is designed this like a lot of this
stuff is built this way by design, like it is
intentional because the thing is like, so, look like, so

(32:23):
let's let's talk about me for a second. Right, let
let me put myself out on front Street, because like
I said, this year, we gonna be a lot more
forward about me per se and and and I feel
like being a little bit more vulnerable on this show
is really helping me kind of process some things. So
like me and my partner, we go, Okay, well we
want a bigger place, and we want this and we

(32:44):
want that, we want more space. Blah blah blah blah blah. Okay,
so we move into a bigger place. But now the
gag is everything around us. It takes fifteen to twenty
minutes to get you, so that means you have to
have a car. But also on top of that, there
is no but there's no there is no outside of
a state of Brothers, and outside of maybe an Alberton's,

(33:06):
and outside of a Rouse, there is no there's nothing
else around me in order to quote unquote consume, right,
So I have to drive to Target. Sometimes to get
stuff for my hair, I have to drive to Target
to get you know, a shirt or some clothes, you know,
if if I want to look cute for something, right,
like for my partners. You know, we had a like
I said, I had a death in my family. What

(33:26):
I wore too that event was And this is the
other gag of it all too. Let's talk about if
we really want to go there and this. These are
the things that I'm like I said, these are all
of the things that I'm constantly thinking about if I
want clothes, especially being a big girl, I can't just
walk into you know, a Forever twenty one or or
high a more high end company to find something to wear,

(33:49):
right like I have to. I have to order it
and wait two to three weeks.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
Right.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
So, in this instance where I'm being asked to do
this thing for the family member who passed away, I
need something I believe this is not used to wear.
So the only place I can go is Target because
there's a big girl line there.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
You want, you want ethical and echable consumerism, Give me
a fat bitch opportunities to body clothes five feet from
my house direct right directly.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
It's all like all of this ship is is it?
Like so I said, like if they're they're like you
want to And this is the thing I'm really trying
to posit here. We want to do the right thing.
It's not like we're setting out to be a terrible
person every single day, like at least at least for me,
for as for me and my household. I'm always trying
to do what I believe is the least damage in

(34:35):
this world. Right, I'm trying not to harm anyone or
do harm in anything that I do. But the system
is so set up, and that's what I'm I guess
that's what I'm trying to say. Well, with putting myself
out on front street, Yes, do do I want to
ignore Target? Yes? I I there there might be moments
of me where I'm like fuck Target because of what
they're doing or because of what they've done. But by design,

(34:57):
I'm set up to be like for Target to be
that only line for me right now, because there's not
even there, Like I said, there's no other place around
me at this point that I can drive to outside
of a target. And especially and this is what I'm
also talking about time, right, how many of us really
have the And so this is what I'm trying to

(35:18):
say too, because I know that there might be people
that might be listening and being like John, you're looking
for outs, You're looking for ways to talk about it
as if you're not holding yourself accountable. And I'm going, Okay,
if I was to sit down and try to think
about that, how like there's so much time in trying
to like and again, if it was easy, we'd all
be doing It's That's what I'm really trying to get at.

(35:39):
This shit is made this way intentionally for us to
be like, well, we have to rely on Target, we
have to rely on Walmart, we have to rely on
this Amazon for things, because if we don't, if it's
not done this way, then we're pretty much you know
what I mean, Like, we're pretty It's made this way
in order for us to feed into it. That's literally

(36:01):
what I'm trying to say. And so the gag becomes like,
how do we figure out a way to disengage all
of this stuff? And again, I don't want to ignore
the DEI of it all, right, Like, yes, the DEI
of it is important, right, it is important for us
to hold these companies accountable and to say, well, you
said you were going to do this and now you're not.
What the fuck is going on? But I will also

(36:23):
say that there's still a part of us too that
has to sit with all of this and has to say,
what are we gonna do to make sure that we're
not putting all of our eggs in the baskets of
companies like Target and the companies I don't know who else,
or send it their DII, like I mean, I know
Costco still has it, but I'm just what I'm saying
is it's like we can't keep looking to them as

(36:44):
being the end all be alls for everything that we
do and everything that we need.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
So yeah, yeah, I think context is important for people.
They think it's really easy. It's really easy for people
to be upset with others for what they don't do
when you don't understand the context which the person exists, right,
Like for example, like it could be easy for me
to like to your point of someone saying John, like

(37:10):
they're trying to find it out right, it can be
easy for me to for me to be like John,
like you could do more in this way. But in
the day, again, I live in a place where I
can literally walk to do all those things right myself.
So right, like my context is different than your context.
So that's and like like and like that's a matter
of the region, which I the different regions in which

(37:30):
we live, you know, the like the ways our lives
set up, the ways we want different the ways we
want different things, like and so it actually does it
actually does me? Does me no justice? And does you
know justice for me to sit here and like transrag
you for it because like because we have like two
different contexts of life and that and people really didn't
understand that context really is really important for how people
live live their lives. I think you know, you also

(37:52):
may have made a point right of like like like
having a bigger space. And I think that's what I
think a lot is capitalism in America, right, Really a
capitalism's experiment or America's experiment was toying with the idea
that we need more space. That's when that I'm grappling
with a lot, right especially like as like a like

(38:12):
as I as I own this condo and I think about,
like am I gonna sell it? I? Am I gonna
keep it? You know? Do I do I want to
buy an actual house? And like a bigger house, right
like I like I like I I grew up in
a house that was to me like a great size.
You know, I'm not. I never feel like I need
like a two story house or anything. I don't need
like I don't need. I don't need to managine, I

(38:33):
don't horrible like like like I I know, I know
in my life, I don't own if if I if I,
if I want to own a house, I want to
own like a significantly home that is pretty quick. I
don't need to have a big ass house.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
Right.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
But like in America, the creation of the suburb was
one was white flight, but also was idea to have
more space. Right, so you have a six room house
where they full back yard and full front yard, and
it's framed as like, oh, you have a place to
raise your kids, you have a place to like you
be a place to have your own space.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
But like.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
That is also a part of consumerism. We are we
are then made to consume, to consume too much because
then you also have to fill that space with all
these things as well, right and that and that becomes
it then the symbol that you made it, right, you
made it. If you have a house, a big guess
house in a suburb where you have, uh you know,
are three thousand foot house square foot house with a

(39:31):
huge backyard, a pool and big gass front yard. Right Like,
then you've made it. But what you're sacrificing is the
ability to have a close relationship with your neighbors, the
ability to have like, you know, people in your yard
with you to do stuff with. And you were told
not to do that because that's que unquot more dangerous. Right, Really,
it was just about the idea of they didn't want

(39:53):
people to mix with other with the races in the
same cities.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Right.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
So I'm thinking a lot about now as an adult,
like especially as I am thirty and thinking about video
putting roots down? How do I how do I want
to put roots? I don't want to stay in a
city and stay in the you stay in like a
condo place and you know, condo or apartment style building
where I maybe have just like about don't want to
do a tenthouse or have a small yard break like

(40:17):
I do. I do want a small yard. I do
want I do want the ability to like grow my
own veggies and stuff. Right, I would love to I
would love to live in a place where maybe it's
a complex that has a community guardian that I can
be a part of. Right, Like, that's the thing that
I want that will make you know, what what's most
pleasing to me would be would be that style of
like of living and and and that and that is
like how I that's like one way that I would

(40:38):
want to try and break away from the confines of
capitalism and you know, capitalism and consumerism or you know,
make my make my oppression much easier to navigate and
deal with. Is that I live in a space where
I feel more communal around me. Yeah, but like but
that's also really not easy because this are expensive. People

(41:00):
have to be have to be people to be on
board with you, Right, how often do you need to
know your neighbors in the spaces and spaces and so
like you know, like like like it's just it's all
like I think it's not about the idea of having out.
Let's say, it's a de recognizing like if if someone's
telling you that you that shows Matt you for trying
to have an out, It's like okay, but like why
like why is it john'sponssibility to fix to fix these systems.

Speaker 1 (41:23):
And that's the real gag of at all.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
Like what you like you know why like are are
we all responsible for doing something? Sure? I believe that.
And also you aren't, like you aren't you truthfully you
will die before you can do that, right And like
it's like when I don't want someone to like make
you be a martyr for for a system that that

(41:46):
will not that will not that they'll not crumble just
under one person, and like like like and and and
and then you die for it, like I know, I'm sorry,
but I cannot ask anybody. Some people feel for people
that they can say, yes, I'll die to do what's right,
and I and and I get that bias. I want

(42:09):
I want to ask. I want to die like like
for that because if they die, then how they keep
doing what's right? Right? I that's just how I see.
I want ask anybody to die for that work. I
will say, let's put let's let's let's let's risk things together,
you know, let's risk safety together. But I don't want
to be able to risk their lives for it. Some
people will and people doing it, and I and I
think I think there is like FIRS, there for sure

(42:31):
is a there is like I get white people doing it,
and there is like a reason to do that, but
I don't find joy and I don't and I don't
find like to me, like, I don't think you're morally
morally superior or more righteous to do that. I think like,
what's more, what's better is that we find ways to

(42:53):
get you to live and break systems and the brothers
the brother than die your break systems.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
Yeah, and I mean and I think that there is
you know out this will be kind of like my
last thought, you know. So I'm sitting with you know,
as I'm listening to you talk, my mind is in
the mind of the place of do the best, the
do the best that you can when you can. And
I think that that there there there are some things
where you'll equal, you know, there there are some active
ways that even for me with my dollar while go

(43:21):
I'm not going air, I'm not shopping their I'm not
I'm not spending my money there because I know, like,
for instance, hobby lobby, you could not get me to
walk into a hobby life. It is very clear, and
it is very now. I don't know what other people
do with their money, but I know for me and
for mine, hobby lobby is one place I will never
spend my dollar, right, But I'm thinking to myself like
that is there there are some things that I can

(43:43):
say I could go without that I don't. I don't
ever need to shop there because I I mean, it's
not gonna make or break me, right. But what I'm
saying is, you know, someone can say, well, you can
make the same thing. You know, you can make the
same notion for Target, And I'm going, Okay, you know,
if we're where I'm at is this we can't keep
talking about stuff and not providing alternatives. And that's where

(44:04):
my my heart is right now. If we're going like
collectively as a community, I would love for us to
start having these difficult conversations about, yes, where people are
putting their money, who they're putting their money behind, blah blah.
We can have all of that, but let's also have
the conversation of what is the alternative?

Speaker 2 (44:21):
So you have you, you have a.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
You have issues with you know, Tim Cook, and you
have issues with Apple. Okay, so what's my alternative? Going
to an Android? Absolutely not so like what what what
do I do? Like? Well, who?

Speaker 2 (44:37):
Who?

Speaker 1 (44:38):
Where do I go you know what I mean, Like,
that's that's the kind of stuff. So like, I just
I need people. And again I'm just I'm not I'm
asking this partly to be funny, but I'm also partly
really serious. You're telling people who may rely, heavily and
solely on Target to stop shopping at Target. What is
the alternative for somebody who lives in a place like

(44:59):
myself where I can't shop anywhere else? And I'll be transparent,
someone could even say, well, you could go to Walmart.
There is no Walmart around me. Sis where I live,
there is no Walmart. I would have to drive twenty
five thirty minutes away to get to a Walmart. And
so now I'm looking around and I'm going I barely
have time sometimes to eat, like I'm rushing to eat today,

(45:19):
and I'm going so twenty five minutes to drive to
a store because I'm I don't want to give my
money to Target. Girl, If you don't get the fuck
up out of here with that, Like I'm just saying,
like I know, like I know, and I know that
this conversation will probably have some of y'all ready to
type on them keys and you'll probably wanting to send
us messages and you want to send us your thoughts,
and you're probably even saying this conversation is problematic. Yes,

(45:42):
I wanted to lean into this conversation because these are
the conversations we need to be having. But what I'm
saying is is that if we're going to critique these systems, right,
we've got to come up with a collective alternative. And
that is the thing I guess I'm trying to inspire
with this conversation is like, we as a community, what
are so? And again, if you if you've got issues
with I don't want to speak for Johamas for myself,

(46:04):
if you've got issues with me going to target, I
need to know the alternative. That's That's literally all that
I'm saying. If you've got an issue with any form
of capitalism that either one of us participate in collectively
as a community, I would love for us to start
entertaining alternatives that actually are going to move the needle.
That's where I'm at.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
I'll just say, I'll just say that if anyone's coming
for anybody, but you're also you're also the person who's
still using TikTok caught to us nice, caught to us nice,
That's all I gotta say, because.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Like any of these social media platforms, honest.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
Like the ways in which ways which we need to
go ship was right and wrong in.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
This place, right And I think that's the other gag
of it all for me in this moment, is that
we just there's so many people on a high horse
around what they do and what they don't do. And again,
like I said, I'm not trying to drag anybody. I
just think you know where I want to. I want
to engage these conversations because I don't feel like there's
enough nuance in them, right like, And I'm not saying

(47:15):
like again, I want to make it very clear that
I'm not saying I'm gonna I stand for Target, and
I'm gonna go up for Target, and I'm gonna go
up for for all of these No, fuck all these companies,
Fuck capitalism as a whole because it is damning and
has done a lot of damage, and it has hurt
a lot of people and it's going to hurt a
lot of people. That is the thing I want to
make very very clear that I'm trying to be on
the right side when I talk about this shit. But
I also want to make it very clear that we

(47:37):
live in a system that has intentionally made it hard
for us to move away from this stuff. So my
thing becomes, if we're gonna stand on business and we're
gonna talk about all the things we should be doing
and all the things that we shouldn't be doing with
our money, specifically with my money, with my LLC, with
my ten ninety nine. I want to know what the

(47:57):
alternative is. And I'm not telling people to jump on
the keys to write me a dissertation about what the
alternative is. I'm just asking us to engage that before
we go to somebody and tell them what they they
should be doing or what they shouldn't be doing, Like,
make sure you have a very clear cut plan and

(48:17):
objective to say, because again and I and I and
I agree with you. So you tell me don't shop
at Okay, And I keep using Target as an example
because that's the only thing that's coming to mind. Because
we are recurring, we are recording very early, so I
have people, you know, I think about this kind of
Like you said to Francesca's point, well, just because it's
it's it's it's minority owned doesn't make it a good company. Okay,

(48:39):
So you tell me don't shop at Target, don't shop
at Walmart, don't shop at any of these big retailers
like Amazon or blah blah blah to get your stuff. Okay,
is is the alternate just as good? Because I want
to know. I would like to know that, like that
is that is literally where my head is, Like so,

(49:01):
and I mean, we can beat this for hours, but
I'm just saying, like, I think we all have to
just be very careful. I guess that's my point. And
in wrapping up this segment, I think we've really got
to be very careful about what advice and what thoughts
and what things we're telling people to do and not
do with their money, especially right now when so many

(49:23):
of us might not have a lot of it, Like
there are a lot of people who are who are
really struggling, and it's like, please don't add to the
stress that people already have of being like now I
have to feel guilty for just trying to survive. And
I think that, like I said, this, this whole high
horse piece, it ties right back into capitalism. That's literally

(49:45):
what it's. It's it's intended to do so. But anyway,
I don't know if you wanted to add anything else
before we move on. Little okay, anyway, all that to
be said, now that I want to sell everything I
own and move into a commune, we need to take
a break and collect my things. But when we get back,
we're gonna talk about what's on our plate more an

(50:07):
a bit.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
All right, fam, we are back, and this week we're
having to the lighter side of our Our entire episode
that we had ain't that heavy though it was good.
Now this week we will keep the theme of consumerism.
I'm gonna ask you, what's something that you consume too
much of? It's something that you can't help but keep.
You know, I have thought of you when I broke

(50:39):
this question. I have thought, my god, I know you
you let the bag or you let the bag, and
rightfully so rightfully so so I would say for me,
my the thing that I consume too much of, I
think is like coffee. I will go out of my way.
I will I will show up late to a meeting,

(51:00):
I will show up late to a game. I would
show up late to anything. It means that I can
go out of the way and give myself a little
treaty by give myself a little a little coffee at
some local coffee shop. Do I have a pressmaker at home? Yes?
Could I make my own espresso at home? Can make
a latte at home? Yes? And for some pounds I do?
But like, well, yes, and yet I keep deciding to

(51:21):
say no, let me just go out my way and
buy this thing. Right. It also comes down to, oh,
I don't have the time. I like, like, I don't
have time to get the beans out, grind the beans
put in the thing like I'm I'm gonna have time
to do all that? Right? I could I have a
grindeary of all the things, can be all the things
I need to do. I can make my own syrups
if if I want to be that bitch, I could
make my own syrups. I don't know how to do it,
but I rather, Oh, I just go and support some

(51:42):
local coffee shop and pay ten bucks for this little
decaf latte for twelve ounces at half of it is
eyes and be and be on my way. So even
though I'm a girl, why I will literally I would
literally be literally. The other day I was I'm a
way to a meeting I was. I was four feet
from parking, right from the office. I said, let me go,

(52:03):
let me go and get a little treats real quick.
When I came back, see.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
You doing this on the tea. Yeah, that's real, that's real.
I feel that. And you know what I want to.
I want to. I want to one plus that because
I too, so I make I will if I know
I'm leaving this house. So like yesterday, I again vulnerability.

(52:29):
I have a seed pat machine. I have to sleep
with it, and I had to go get a new one.
And my appointment yesterday was at eight thirty. Tell me why.
The night before me leaving, I was like googling, like
not googling. I was on my uh maps app detailing
how far it would take me, like how long it

(52:50):
would take me to get there. And then I was like, okay,
well it takes technically forty minutes to get there, So
that means I need to leave fifty five minutes ahead
of time, so I have enough time to slide through
the coffee bean to get me to give me something
to drink by Mike, because I have a coffee bean
right next to where I'm going. And so that's literally

(53:10):
like so I'm right there with you, because girl, I'm
notorious too for putting an extra time and being like
how long will it take me to slide through.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
This running late because coffee? But oh, I'm so sorry.
As my cats know, it's because I'm getting coffee. Girl,
I am happily texted you if if if I test you,
I'm on my way. I am happily inlan. I'm definitely
not my wife. I am coffee.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
I feel that, so I yes, So this is a
great question. And then, you know, I think it's a
very human question because it's like, who are we to
talk about these systems if we're not also interrogating ourselves.
And you know, we went back and forth about all
the things that I purchased that I probably shouldn't purchase.
But I said, the one thing I feel the most
comfortable talking about that doesn't make me feel like trash

(53:55):
is is fast fashion. And I say that there there's
it's it's kind of like a like I would love
to really be like okay, like I like I, I
you know, I could go here and I can go
to these other places and buy stuff, but I also
know and kind of taking a page out of Jade's book.
So you know, I listened to Jade and XD and
I know that was something that they talked about last

(54:16):
week on their show. They were talking about like the
how how much we're ruining the earth because of fast fashion,
and I know there's a whole documentary about it. There's
a whole documentary about, you know what, the ways that
we are ruining the earth. And when I say fast fashion,
when I'm talking about it's like shan and what I'm
talking about is also like Forever twenty one and you know,
H and M is also a fast fashion brand, like

(54:38):
and it's not to say I shopped there all the time,
but there have been times where I have said, Okay,
if I'm going to buy this one thing, I'm gonna
buy it in every single color like and then that's
something I do. And the reason why I do it
is is because it's like, well, if I can get
this one thing in this size, and I know that

(54:58):
I have multiple versions of it, it just makes it
easier for me along down the line. If I have
to like get dressed, I don't have to worry. I
don't have to worry about not having something to wear.
And it is something I think a lot about like
you know, am I part? And there are other things too,
like you know there I was just telling Jojo about
something I bought that I probably shouldn't have bought. But

(55:19):
it's one of those things of like I'm trying to
actively slow down and tell myself, like, girl, you don't
have to buy that shirt in six different colors if
you're not if you're only gonna wear it probably two
or three times. And so I try to be what
I'm trying to be more into Joo about is if
I'm gonna buy all of these clothes to try to
make sure that I wear them regularly, or that I

(55:41):
that before I think about going out to buy something
new for an event or for a conference, or for
a show or whatever the case may be, that I
wear what I actually own. And so and it's hard.
It's hard because we live in a world and I
say we mean meaning me and Joho, where we're constantly
in front of a camera, or we're constantly at an event,
or we're constantly running around with people, and we want

(56:03):
to look good, and so in your mind it's like
I want to buy something new, but you also feel
bad because you know you're feeding into the system again
of capitalism, and so that that's something I'm trying to
be more intentional about it. Like, girl, you don't need that,
you know, you don't need that dress in like eight
different colors. Get it into two and wear it until

(56:23):
it starts to tear. That's really it.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
So well, now that now that we got us thinking
about the ways wis we should stop consuming, I'm gonna
take my break and get a little treats to the
college shop next door. Uh, just you know, just for
that one one last hit, one last hit, double mean
in just a second.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
All right, everybody, So we are back with our final
segment of this episode, and for those of you who
are new listening around here, our last segment is yes ma'am,
No man, Pam. This is where we talk about the
things that we love or the things that we love
to see in the things that we don't. This week,
I'm just gonna go ahead. Both of mine are very

(57:18):
very simple and very kind of quick to the point.
I simply just wanted to say for my yes ma'am
this week, I wanted to shout out the parents that
are openly loving on their queer and trans children. I
often see, I wanna say often because of the work
that I do, I have a lot of parents who
are hitting people in my org or literally coming to

(57:41):
us and saying, hey, how do I do this for
my child? My child is scared, my child is dealing
with this, you know, what do we do? And it's just,
you know, even when a parent doesn't know what to do,
I think it is so it makes my heart feel
so good to know that there's a parent out there
who's trying, you know, like that there's a parent out
there who's like, I don't know the right way to

(58:02):
do this thing, and I'm going to ask for help
with it. But at least I want my child to
know that I actively see that the world is trying
to harm them, and then I don't want that to happen.
So I just really wanted to shout out any parent
who is out there. And I say parent, not just
in the idea of like you birthing a child. I'm
saying if you have taken in your niece or nephew,
and you recognize your niece or nephew is trans and

(58:23):
you're raising them and you're wanting to do what's right
for your niece or whatever that means anybody who was
doing their best to protect and love on their clear
children right now and into eternity. Right But I'm saying
in this moment, I just I want to say, like,
I see you, and I salute you, and I definitely
think you're the reason that you are one of the

(58:44):
reasons why I just I appreciate what I get to
do and what I again, what I get to do
through my nine to five. And for those of you
who don't know, I work for a children's organization in
my nine to five when I'm not on the MIC,
I work for a nonprofit that focuses on queer and
trans youth. And so I don't want to say the
name because again I don't want people coming after the org,

(59:05):
but I definitely do want folks to know like I
see them, and I see the struggle, and I'm definitely
there with you, all right. So for my no man, Pam,
this is a very simple thing. I just I've I've
noticed it over the years, but I'm noticing it a
lot more now. People who don't walk their dogs with

(59:26):
leash with a leash? Can we can? We can? We not?
Like I know, there's bigger fish to fry. But my
thing is, like, I just I don't comprehend why, Like,
why is it so hard for you to walk your
dog on a leash?

Speaker 2 (59:39):
Why?

Speaker 1 (59:39):
Like and it's and that's the thing, Like I people,
Oh he's friendly, he's okay, he can be friendly to you.
But I don't know that fucking dog. I don't know
what he is capable of. And and this is this
is spawned from a moment yesterday. So yesterday, as I
was getting ready to get into my car, there was
a man jogging past where I live and his dog

(01:00:01):
like ran up on the other side, and I jumped
into my car and slammed my door. And as I'm
pulling away, he like looks over. Yeah he's cool, he's school.
He's school. I don't give a damn if you think
your dog is cool. I don't know that dog. And
he was like a rock riler. He wasn't a big one,
but he was a rock whiler. And I'm like, can
we not, like just put him on a leash. I

(01:00:23):
don't want to have to suit you. I don't want
to get bit But yeah, I just the people who
try to, oh he's he's a cute dog. Oh, he's sweet.
Put your damn dog on a leash. I don't I
don't care, I don't care. Please, So that's that's it.
What do you got this week? Says?

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
Let me just say, your dogs are not your children.
They're not kids. They're dogs, they're animals, they're not kids.
So consider that when you have them off fleash, it
is not legal. And I love the idea of you

(01:00:59):
the laws, but it's the law that may not be
worth ben for you girls. So just don't do a bitch.
So yeah, so just lords in heaven my s bam.
So the people gagged about Trump's policies and who voted
for him? You look so right now? Yeah, like that's

(01:01:25):
just really like y'all got about his policies and you
vote for him. That's just what happens. You do. Clown
ship and clown shit happen. So that's it now, I know, ma'am,
Pam is okay. So this is this is a bit
serious people, serious people. I understand people are like people
are posting about what to do with an ice rates

(01:01:49):
happens happens around you, right, And I get that. I
think like information sharing is great, that's what be mindful,
like we exist, we still exist in Surventance place, and
so I'm I don't think it's so far fascial that
people are watching you. So if you're posting about things
to say or do, or you're posting things like I
won't give my neighbor up for an ice raid, right,

(01:02:09):
that's some point that your neighbor might be documented and
that could lead the ice to your to your door,
and like what are you gonna do then when they
atkal them your door? So like I will be really
clear of like be mindful you post about ice because
you could really being engaging people around you as well too,
Like I don't posted anything because like what I'm not
gonna do is in danger with people that I love
at all, Right, what am not gonna do? I'm go
to the information and say work, thank you. But like

(01:02:31):
some like sometimes the information sharing isn't always the best thing.
Send it, girls, send it and send it in a
message to somebody. Don't post it on your story because
sometimes I actually could lead to for the nature of
other people, especially if you're if you're acknowledge that you
may have someone in your life who who is who
is Who's? A documentar can be impacted by eyes and
then like that could can I'm not saying that's your fault.
I'm saying, can you contribute to them being discovered? You

(01:02:53):
don't want that, so really be mindful of how you
share things. That's really it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
Yeah, No, you you're you are making a really good point.
And I think that, I mean, we could do a
whole We could do a whole episode on that too,
about you know, information sharing. But I think there is
this idea of like people wanting to be like, we
got to get the information to the people.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
One of the things that I really appreciated at Creating
Change was there was a there was a in particular,
they called it Leplinary that they did and they told people,
do not record, do not take information from this and
put it on social do not post any clips whatever,
what like, we want this conversation to just be within
the doors of creating change. And it was about strategic

(01:03:37):
It was about all this stuff like what a strategy,
what is like what are we doing collectively to try
to make sure that we're protecting our people? And I
think we need to do more of that. I think
we really need to get to a place where we're
actively organizing and we're not organizing online because obviously that's
what we're giving a lot of We're losing the plot,
like we're giving a lot of people a lot of

(01:03:57):
information that they don't necessarily need. And I think it's
kind of like, you know, yeah, I have a feeling
that I'm gonna get a lot of heat on this episode.
But I ultimately was saying, like I believe, like that's
the only way for us to Like Harriet Tubman didn't
tell people where she was gonna be and where she
was gonna go. Could you imagine Harriet Tubman posted alone,

(01:04:21):
I'm gonna be at this Like no, Harriet Tubman moved,
you know, like like a you know, she moved in silence,
like a gee and Lasagna, like she knew what she
was doing. And I think we need to get back
to that. We need to get back to the old days.
I'm not saying that all of their ways were the
right ways, but I personally believe we need to get

(01:04:42):
back to the days of the Black Panther Party. We
need to get back to the days of Malcolm X.
We need to get back to the days of the
organizing and silence because because that's how we're gonna make
true change. I feel like we're giving away to you know,
we're giving away too many of the ingradients. We're telling
too many people what's in the sauce. We still don't
even know all the ingredients in KFC's chicken, you know.

(01:05:03):
And that's for a reason, right and and and I
think that's what we need to get back to you. So, yeah, Joe,
you got my mind ruminated. But I definitely wanted to
say that on the mic. All right. Well, with that
being said, uh, who my god, what an episode. Please
send us your thoughts, feedback and emails to Blackfatfempod at

(01:05:23):
gmail dot com. You can also send us your thoughts
via social media by interacting with our posts on Instagram
and Blue Sky and also along the metas. I don't
know how long we are gonna be on the metas.
It's just what a time, What a time to be alive.
I just keep saying it every day, every day I

(01:05:43):
say that at least one here, what a time be alive?
Mm mmm hmm. Anyway, Queen Joe Ho, where can the
dolls find you?

Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
I love you can find me at Joho Danwn's across
all socials. You can find me definitely have my local
cofee shop. Unfortunately telling your little treatsy pooh even mama,
said Joindwales dot com. If not there, girl, don't find
me all beside, don't come looking. I'm not trying to
be found.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
Everybody's saying, you know, hope this email finds you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):
Well.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
I hope the email doesn't find me at all.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
I hope it emil doesn't find you all girl. I
hope the email to find it finds you your summer
vacation in the Bahamas.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
Girl, don't even make me lost in the Bermuda Triangle
or something. My god, yes, okay, but it's as for
me and mind. You can find me on the street
shucking and driving and dancing trying to get people to
buy this book. Child, Please head over to w W
dot Doctor Johnpaul dot com. We are only a couple

(01:06:47):
of days away from my book release. I think we're
somewhere in like the fifty we're in the fifty fives,
the fifty six days of my book release. And so please,
if you have not purchased, feel free head over to
my website to to buy it. Other than that, you
can find me on all the socials, including Blue Sky

(01:07:07):
at Doctor John Paul dot Blue. Other than that, it's
at Doctor John Paul everywhere, all right. With that being said,
we want to thank our producer's Bay Wang for handling
all of the logistics that happen around this show. I
tell you there's you know there. There are a lot
of moving parts there there. There are a lot of
move a lot of moving parts, a lot of people

(01:07:28):
at creating changes. Ask me, how do you how do
you get into the podcasting world? Honey? You got to
have a solid plan. So thank you to everybody who
keeps us up grooving it and moving down to the iHeartMedia.
Same thing. Chris Rogers, we want to thank him for
being a wonderful editor and literally for just keeping us

(01:07:48):
together these last few weeks. There's been a lot going
on and I'm very grateful to have Chris Rogers as
an editor for this show. So thank you. With that
being said, this has been another show. Stay black, Fat, feline, fabulous,
and remember what, joho, We may not be.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
Your cup of tea, but girl drinks some water because
you're probably anyways.

Speaker 1 (01:08:11):
I know that's right. I love us for real until
next week, Bye bye,