The Fear Factor

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Black Fat Fem Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
and Doctor John Paul LLC. Hey everyone, welcome to another
episode of the Blackfeftfim Podcast where all the intersections of
it in they are celebrated. I am one of your
unsick host John also known as Doctor John Paul, and

(00:21):
I can't initially say that I just landed from the mothership.
Now what I will say is this, I am not
talking about the motherland, which is different. One day I
will get to Africa. I'm talking about my mothership, which
is the Apple campus up in the Bay Area. Yes,
by the time you hear this, it will be today.

(00:41):
Actually this day, I got back from Dub Dub what
they call WDC. For all of you've been following me
on the socials and asking questions and sending a lot
of love and excitement with me, my true applehead John.
No what y'all know what WWDC is. But by the
time you hear this, it'll be a week. So it's
been a week since I've been back from Dub Dub,
and I while I didn't get a chance to meet

(01:03):
Tim Cook, I will say that I am reeling with
just how exciting the whole the whole bang of it all,
Like it was just it was very much giving what
I thought an Apple event would give. It was really
cool to be in the space with people who truly
get my excitement for Apple, and then being able to
see Tim he literally ran out on the stage. He

(01:26):
like waved at us and then he ran away, and
I don't know what that was about him. I was like,
why wasn't he out in the stage, Like he didn't
even really talk, but it was really cute to see him.
Then he has a little sidekick. There's this other guy.
I forget what his name is. I think it's a
Mark who's like his little sidekick that also ran out
on the stage. Did the same hand gestures. You know,
for those who are watching on the youtubes, they do

(01:46):
their hands like this a lot. There's a lot of
this and gesturing And yeah, I just made my little
you know, capitalistic fat heart. Really really happened there. But anyway,
outside of you wanting to follow a part, joho, how
are you doing well?

Speaker 2 (02:04):
Rub a dub dub look at her first of all,
so excited for you moving on, moving on. I am
so happy that you have to go, Like Apple is
your girl and her forever sometub that you were able
to do that. Fam. It's a boy John's joh where
I can't even speak today Isha boy Joe. Otherwise I

(02:26):
was Jordan. If you love me, Yeah, she might have
to be here. As John announced earlier, I'm a little
sickies bitch, a little naisi the naisily voice. But I
am doing find I am doing findal thankfully is thankfully
uh not the row row and that matters to me.
Tv H Well, at least for now, it's not. Hopefully
it stays not that way. I mean, we'll find out

(02:47):
my next week. Next week. If by the time it
comes out either be by.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Love on you, we still will say. But I really
do the I don't think it'll be fine.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
It's just it's just a reminder of you can get
You also can get colds, and that's when I have
often forget, forget, oh you can get sick without without COVID.
These days too, my mind's always like COVID cover COVID.
I'm like, oh, you can just get sick from just
from like existing, and that's when I'm recognized. The time
my body is just like girl, we're done, yeah, done.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
No, it's just reality is just everyone's nasty. And you've
been in airports. I've been in multiple airports and it's
just seins and it's like I just don't comprehend. I mean,
and I could go on for hours about how nasty
the airport is. But it's not even just the airport
being nasty. It's just people are nasty, like people.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
Everything about the entire processes, like the way I'm like,
no one covers anything. No, Like it's a really realisation,
like no one comes maybe cover the mouth and they cough.
These days they just called throughout air and I'm like, girl,
why would you do that? Like it's about heart. Also,
don't half into your hand coffin like I se people
coming with their hands and shakes one's hand. Stories I'm like,

(03:57):
you are so nasty. That to me is like premage murder,
like you actually want and you go to Okay, No
ways you do it girl, Like people are nasty, girl,
just everybody.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
No, it is absolutely gross. But I will say though,
shout out to San Francisco. Is I think it's San Francisco.
There's another airport too that has those uh infrared like
blue light things, so like when you send your stuff
through it. It like disinfects it, like it keeps it.
I don't know. I think it is San Francisco. It's

(04:36):
either San Francisco or it might be I don't know
if it's Atlanta. It might be Atlanta, but anyway, I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
SFL has that it has the way we like in
the in like the ts A.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
Area, Yeah, I think so. I think in the TSA
area there's this little like it's like a light thing
and then like also same thing with like they have
like areas for you to pour your water and they say,
like this is this is clean, like say, it's very sanitary.
There are airports out there that seem to be more
sanitary than not. I flew out of San Jose and
that immediately that was absolutely not giving sanitary. But I

(05:12):
know that I have flown out of some airports that
are extremely sanitary, so or at least try to be.
I appreciate when I see people like wiping.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Stuff in the world. That's fair. Yeah, that's nice, and
it's nice. People try io appreciate. I'll say I preached
the people, but it's weird people who like wipe down
their seats in the airplane. Though I'm like which is which?
I mean, I love that for you, but you want
to you'red on your CB also don't wear a mask
and what really is are doing for you? Like like

(05:39):
I'm just like, okay, it's it's interesting seeing listen. I
also we can choose the ways in which right like
I f the most comfortable, but it's interesting seeing some
people's choices they make that Like for example, like last month,
I was at the airport flying to SFL. There's this
woman in front of me who like we're there for
like an and a half before we got the plane,

(06:00):
not wear her mask at all, and then see me
on the plane she wore her mask and I was like,
I was like that that doesn't what that that doesn't
make sense?

Speaker 1 (06:12):
I mean I am I am confusion. Yeah, I feel
stupid too, because I'm that girl that will wear a
mask onto a plane and then when they come through
and they're like, would you like a snack? I'm like,
the fuck yes, I like a snack. I'm like, what
the fuck was the point of me wearing If I'm
snacks on the plane. This is stupid.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
So the dinner I definitely have the Honestly, it's wild
thing though, is that the girl who the women who
were the mental planet was like okay, but arguably the
on the planes safer if they if it's all, if
the science is correct with the whole, like constant air flow,
it's safer to have the mask off in the planet
in the airport. But like whatever, but also like the
holy food thing, if I forget a meal, I'm like,

(06:55):
hold my meal until half hour afterwards I am knocking
to bitches next to me eating their food. I will
wait until But I just thought that should have really quickly.
But it is really it is. I try to do it.
I'm like, well, what happens here? Happens here? Lisha Good
asked me.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
I guess right, if I'm gonna die or if I'm
gonna get sick, at least I got sick with the
good meal. And I will tell you Delta in terms
of like their Delta one and Delta you know, folks
that are sitting in the front. It's funny because that's
been the running joke online with me and TS.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
You know.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
I ran into TS Madison a couple of weeks ago
when I was flying and somebody was like, y'all, don't
sit past six you know six A, And I was like,
that's very accurate in ts are not going to be
sitting anywhere near six uh. But with that being said, yes,
it's very much you know I you know, I'm gonna
send you something and make sure that my girl is good,
but I'm sending you well wishes and I hope that

(07:44):
you feel better. So we are going to keep this
boat moving. Like I said, we are both very much
in the mind of being a little tired today. One's
under the weather, I've been traveling, but we're we still
wanted to make sure that we got y'all a show.
So this week we are jumping into You're gonna hear
kind of like this running theme and I just kind
of want to name it up top that we are

(08:04):
gonna be talking a lot about fear as just a
very general topic this in particular week. And so for
our first segie, as we always do with still here,
giving Miss Tisha Campbell her flowers and letting her know
how much we appreciate her, we are dipping our foot
into the pool to talk a little bit about that
theme or that concept of fear. And so before we
get into a deeper dive on it, I wanted to

(08:25):
ask you, do you have an irrational fear or there's
something that just kind of makes you be like mm hmm,
I'm not doing that because something could go wrong, and
it's just it's just a really stupid, foolish fear that
lives in you. I know, for me, my stupid fear
that I put down is fuel tankers. I'm gonna tell

(08:47):
you right now, when I see a fuel tanker on
the freeway, it literally like it sparks something in me.
And I don't know what it is. There's something always
in me that's gonna be like you are gonna go
it's gonna blow up, and you are going to die
from the fire that is going to come out of
that tanker. And I know that a lot of that

(09:08):
is very unhinged and it is very silly, But I
am super fearful of tankers. So like, if I see
them on a freeway, I'm gonna slow down to like
wait to be like, all y'all can die up there
with that tanker. I'm gonna speed up and try to
get away from it. So like I said, all y'all
gonna die back there with that tanker. I refuse to

(09:31):
be anywhere near a tanker as I'm traveling anywhere near
one on a freeway, even like at am PM. I
have literally left pump since I've seen tankers feeling I
am really I'll get damn kill me with a tanker.
That is not how I'm going now outside and and

(09:52):
that literally is the only thing that makes me want
to scream Like Michael and Jana Jackson, I'm not anything
with a tank What about you? What's your irrational.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
Listen, listen, we have all hopefully well if we've all
seen the fondization to film, that's when the whole ass
car wreck where that taker's flowed in the fucking log
came through a bitch's window. Like, that's just not for me.
So I too would shift mass away from a big
gass tanker. But I was wondering would they also move
away from the tankers at the gas station. And I
love that you you confirm that you would, and that

(10:24):
to me, I'm like, Okay, that that's that's because I
was like, it's not, it's not, it's not irrational, and
now that's irrational. I'm like, girl, even the takers, like
the other side.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
I don't care where that take if I want nothing
to do with I'm leaving.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
That's hilarious, so with mine. So I so I had one,
but I realized I don't. I don't think it's assially irrational,
like like like I don't think it's silly, because I
was gonna say, like my minds like if you're the dark,
which I really do have, like pure darkness terrifies me.
If it's like like like that moment, at that moment

(11:01):
when when when when the power goes out and there's
a there's a blackout at nighttime and everything looks true
dark before your eyes suggest like that's what that's that's
that's the space in which my heart races, I feel breathless.
But I actually don't think don't think that's that's irrational.
That's very irrational. Irrational fear is when bitches for the
pole if we're walking, and if we're walking and the

(11:24):
bitch next to me decides to go around the pole
and I will follow them, right. I have friends who
would fuck with me and just like go around the
pole anyways, And I'm like, bitch, if you want to
get karmic the disaster on your end, that's your decision,
but don't put that on me, baby, girl, Like, I
don't know where. I don't know where I because for

(11:46):
this where I mean. I mean, but like I do
a lot as a kid, but as an adult, I'm like,
you want the pole in my presence, bitch, Like, and
I don't care. I don't care if it's a telephone
pole or a parking meeting pole, Like it could literally
be a stump in the grass.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
Those little things that they have like in front of
like you know when you go to events, and then
they're like those little metal they're like those massively bulleted
type things. I've seen people split those and I'm like,
don't do that. That's bad luck.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
Energetic and any physically energetic thing between us a girl,
we are not Amen.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
Amen very much person. I will also say I don't
put my bag on the floor either. That's another superstition
thing that I have. We don't put bags on the floor, backpacks, purses, wallets, nothing,
nothing of mine should ever be on the floor. And
that I know a lot of people say, oh, it's
because you know, I have a true fear of being broke,

(12:43):
and everybody says, and putting your bags on this floor,
it's not even just because I'm a Louis bags. Simply,
I just don't believe in like even right now, like
my respirator, I have a not respirator. I have a
I have a sea pat machine because I'm a big
bitch and I have to sleep with one. I won't
put that on the floor either. I just I don't

(13:04):
believe that bag should go on.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
That's a period.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
Okay, should not love for you? Absolutely not. Well with
that being said, now that I've opened up and let
y'all know what irrational fears we have and what keeps
us up at night, get.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
It to us, y'all, don't go, don't go driving a field.
Take care for John's card. Don't you dare? Who will need? Bitch?
I will fuck you up.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
I take a ship a short break so I could
take my next to pro. We'll be back in just
a second.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
Okay, fan, we are back at SSR right up. So
for today's category is John HASBANDZ doesn't stop your team
meeting for some time, and so I decided that we
could get into it since it's just as sisters breaking bread.
That being said, we want to get into a conversation

(13:58):
on fear and not just what scares you about X
or why you're afraid of why, but really thinking about
how fear itself can control you and how it can
keep you from making hard decisions that you know are
best for you. So John to kikos Off WHENNA first
ask you, what made you want to talk about fear
on the air.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yeah, that's and it's so interesting because I just came
out of a difficult conversation, and partly part of the conversation.
I won't get into all of what the conversation was,
but someone had said, well, you feel that way because
you are scared, and I'm like, you know what, I'm
You're damn right, I'm scared. But I think it is
because I'm about to be thirty nine, and fear sometimes

(14:41):
starts to loom around every year with my birthday. And
it's not even just the irrational fear, or it's not
just the like I'm scared of this. It really is
kind of like this this idea of like, I'm getting
older and sometimes I worry if I didn't make the
right decisions, whether that be like and I'm gonna just
be blind, whether it's love, or whether it's with jobs,
or whether it's with things. I said, no, to or

(15:03):
things that I said yes to, things that you know,
my question like as of recently, you know, I'm just again,
y'all know that this show is very transparent the fear
of you know, should I should I have said yes
to that book deal? Should I have waited to get
more money out of it? Should I have waited for
it to be a bigger deal? Like they are all
of these things that constantly keep coming up. And so
I think for me, this conversation around fear has been

(15:25):
real because I think we don't One part of it
is also, like I said, closer to death, right, this
is something that we don't talk enough about about getting
older and the idea of regret. And I mean, I
know we can dig into that a little bit later,
but really there is this real feeling of like, oh,
have I made all the right decisions? But then also

(15:45):
like really thinking about like what all of the stuff
I'm doing right now and really thinking about how some
of the stuff that I have not done it's because
of the fear that has either been embedded in me
via like just life. And then there's like the fear
because I'm a black, fat fem right, So there's all

(16:08):
kind of I'm into to play and this idea of
like if I reach you know, it's funny because on
the on my plane right home, I was watching the
show Acapoco and one of the characters said something and
you know, it was very kind of around based in
the concept of fear, and it really hit home for
me because I was like, oh my god, this theme
of fear keeps showing up in so many different ways,
and so I think for me, it's just something that

(16:31):
constantly lingers, and even now with life feeling so super uncertain,
gas is high rent as high, like we're all three
set people away from catching COVID, Like there's just so
much I think, and I guess that's kind of what
maybe we have to do in this convo, was like
unpack what uneases versus fear. I just think that I'm

(16:53):
constantly I'm gonna say like I'm I'm RESTful in the
sense of like I'm home and I'm okay with life,
and I love this show and I you know, I do.
I'm happy with my book and all of these things
that I'm happy the way that process is going, but
there's still this instance of unease that kind of lives
around me. So I don't know. I don't know if
that's something you deal with too. I know we were
texting about it yesterday, we were texting about some of that.

(17:15):
But yeah, that's really where a lot of this came from,
is just that unease and that fear and thinking about
it and how it kind of plays a role into Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
So I think, oh, there's so much, there's so much here.
I think that unease, I mean unease to me honestly
is like, for sure, affect of capitalism. Why, like, especially
as black fat fans, we are where we don't have
often had the luxury of feeling content or satisfied or settled,

(17:48):
because one, we're hyper conscious of how things can be
taking taken away from us really easily. I'm hyper conscious
of how like how we could be made to work more,
do more have to be more to prove something? So
I think that's when the all comes uneasiness of like
it's just so, and it's just because I am striving

(18:11):
to not chalk it down to like existing as our
identities is what's hard, right, because then people will be
like people be yeah, because people will be like, oh,
like you know, like like you can change it, you
can manifest like, yes, it's just you can. But also
I understand that the odds are different for us, the
odds are different, and the way that between is that

(18:33):
we have to manifest or change the manifestics work and
the opportunity we have to work and enhich reasure. Those
things are different than like white folks or straight folks
or just folks or like eventually hot folks blah blah blah.
And so I think this one comes the unease. It's
like the unease is just the world that the world
which we existed. Also, where as John werotecting last night,

(18:55):
like we're just in a phase an era of life,
where like it's just trauma to trauma to trauma to trauma,
and then we are made to somehow like keep a
pushing through all of it. And that's just really hard,
it is, I think, you know, I think with I
think with fear, Like my relationship with the fear has
definitely changed a lot over the years, but I do

(19:16):
believe I believe it's been that lingers around us for sure,
or many of us at least, Like I think I
think the fears you named are totally out fears. The
thing that the fear of made the right choices, because
I think about that to make right choice in the
right place, I put the right person. Like all these
things and these are things that many of us carry.
Is like like, go, my dearest friends has a deep
fear of death, and like they're like even the thought

(19:37):
of death makes them absolutely anxious, right like and like
like they've experienced loss themselves, but even thinking about death
makes them like freak out entirely. And I think fear
is at us on multiple levels. So you know, the
way you said, right is how we grew up as
people in the world, the black folks, queer, flat folks
in between, and like you know and like like as

(19:57):
I say that all sometimes partly is like well damn well, shit,
like when are you going to give you give them
the chance to not have fear? How do we dream
of a world we actually don't have to have? Like
I think a lot about about my friend Kelsey, who
her work is rooted in it's called black dream experiments
about how to just give space for black folks to dream?
How do you have space for black folks too just

(20:18):
like exist in dreaming enough to worry about something And
I and I love that right. I'm also reminded of
how I'm not saying I'm not saying that. I'm not
saying that do what she's doing is the dream is
the femeral. I'm saying like, like in that moment time
I think anything about how ephemeral that is for us
at present, because how do we get to how she
have constant space who dream and feel abundant and feel

(20:38):
free and not have to feel fear? Right? Right, That's
what that she's doing is how how how to create
the space in an abundant, consistable way so that I frive
for myself? And like it's perscing a lot of challenges
on of like how do I how do I feel
at ease? How do I feel rested? How do I
feel safe? Right? Because a lot of fear is a

(21:00):
feeling of unsafety as well, So how do.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
We feel that part? Yeah, And I will even say
to your point about the fear of just how uneasy
it is, you know, I'll even I'll say this. So
when I was driving back, it didn't even hit me
with like just the world that we live in and
the impact of this this country.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
Right.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
I don't know if you heard, but or at least,
I don't know if you were aware. So I don't
even know if I told you. So, Like a couple
of weeks ago, when I was in Philly, my driver
who was taking me to my hotel, he had told
me that that day he had experienced seeing someone get
shot on the New Jersey Turnpike, and so he was
explaining to me kind of everything that had happened, and
I was like, oh, okay. I was like, I understand that,

(21:42):
you know. I was listening to him share the story,
and I could tell that he really just wanted to
tell me because he was like, I just experienced this
really traumatic thing, and I, you know, I can't go home.
I'm still on the clock, so I need someone else
to know. And I'm like, okay, So walking with him
through that, and you know, and I probably should have
sad trigger warning, but all that to be said, you know,
I thought about today. So today I was driving and
I was on I think I was getting ready to

(22:03):
get onto the one ten, and I saw a guy
put something out of his window and this just over
whelming sense of like, oh my god, what is he
putting out of his way?

Speaker 2 (22:13):
And I don't know.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
I still I didn't I didn't stick around long enough,
like the blackness, and me kicked up and was like, girl,
if you don't get the fuck up but out of him,
don't don't stick around, try to figure out what he
what it is. And he put out of his passenger's window,
right and and I saw him laughing, you know, in
the midst of him and the person in the car
with him doing it. But it was just this innate

(22:34):
fear that I had in me of like you know
that that fight or flight. And so I think about that,
like when you talk about this idea of constantly living
in fear, you know, I think that there's so And
that's kind of why I wanted to like bring this
to the podcast because I think we talked a lot
about and we've talked about it right in our in
our one hundred episodes that we've done. I love saying

(22:56):
that in the mini yes episodes that we've done, we've
talked about all of the layers of different things that
we've had to experience in our intersections, right, but no
one talks about this idea of like how do you
navigate like the fears that are put on to you
because of oppression plus just the general fears of like
existing as an American because it's terrifying, right, and people

(23:20):
make jokes about it, but it's kind of like and
you you know, I've learned to kind of laugh through it,
but there's just so much as an American, Like even
my partner, I mean, like I said, the conversation that
I had before we jumped on the mic was a
conversation of, well, what is it going to look like
when we get older? You know, are we gonna be
able to do this? And are we to be able
to do that? And it's a big for us. It's
just you know, sometimes I feel like a sam where

(23:41):
I have a big ass question mark over my head
because I don't I don't know, like I don't fumble
what financial security is going to look like for me
in ten to twenty years. Because of the way the world,
I don't know if I'm gonna be able to drive
from one point to another and not get shot, Like
I don't know if someone's going to gay bash. There's
like there's all of these things. And so it's like

(24:04):
a part of me that says, girl, like you can't
and and and I guess that's also partly what this
conversation is it's just space for me to be able
to say, Okay, I can I can leave this here
because I think often too like I'm I'm constantly in
the mind of like I want to be very clear
and saying, I don't walk around as like a doom's
dayre right, Like I'm not always waiting for something terrible

(24:25):
to happen. That's not my that's not my mental But
what I'm saying is is that fear is something for
mine and and and I just want to make sure
that I really drive this home and I name it.
Like for minoritized people, fear is something you cannot find
joy without having a little bit of fear, like even
when you are in a joyful moment. And I mean,

(24:45):
I'm surely it's right the black people laughing too loud,
the fear of is someone gonna call the cops or
going to come over here and try to you know,
police the fun that I'm having with two or three
of my black friends as we're laughing, Like, these are
things that constantly come up that live in the psyche

(25:07):
of us right because of who we are. And so
I think all of that to say, you know, I
kind of a life flex But you know, in my
my ted talk that I gave some time ago, that
was the thing that kind of to your point about
Kelsey that I really love, you know, this notion around
fear to freedom. I've been thinking about it a lot
and really thinking about our relationship to fear. And I
guess for folks who probably are listening, you're probably sitting

(25:30):
with this this and again. And that's why I say,
I think I'm gonna say this, and I'll probably we
may get some backlash, we may get some people who
probably feel away with me saying this, But I go,
that's why black people are fucking amazing, Because even with
all of the terrible say and i'll say black and
queer people, I would even go more, one more, a
step more to say black women and black trans women

(25:52):
are amazing because even in all of the fear that
we we we have, whether it be irrational or not,
what we still managed to make space to dream, We
still make space to find joy, we still make space
to laugh. We still I still think black people are
the funniest people on this fucking earth. You'll never and
no one will ever be able to change that. I

(26:13):
just think that's exactly funny and Okay, I have to
be right. We have to learn outlind humor and a
lot of the fucked up shit that we have to
deal with on a day to day. And so that
was one of the things I was thinking about. Like,
for me, part of my letting go of fear has
been just the freedom that being like, you know what,

(26:33):
I have no fucking control over that, I have no
control over how any of this is gonna play out,
And I just got to do what I gotta do
to make sure that my life has done the best way.
But that was one of the things I did want
to ask you, is you know, how have you learned
to kind of how like what what has been your
journey per se or what has been your relationship to
fear and ultimately like what has it helped you learn

(26:55):
about yourself?

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Who so at first hold in Well, so the first
thing I'll say is this is a side, but a
silly a silly side. But DOCI had posted on their
story that it was a story or a post on
the Instagram, but like they were recording people on the
camera out like like with the with the window down

(27:19):
of the car, like somewhere in some city somewhere and
one and like and like like and and one girl
like duck she immediately like ducked and try it right yeah,
and like like and then and then and then Doc responds,
dut in the car right and the window it was
like and then but then the but like then they

(27:39):
started laughing right and the the the cash was like
not a fan thing and not gonna shoot the right right,
but like but like but like it's funny, but it
also like really demonstrates that nothing feels safe anymore for people. Right,
Like you see someone going down the window, you think,
are they gonna shoot me? And like, I mean right,
Like I'm sure it's like it's funny in hindsight in
some ways, but but that girl probably was like a

(28:02):
shot long person a duck right and never watched ducky
right or I think of that. You know that episode
in Harlem where where Angie ran and every black person
just dropped following her, right, and it's like it's funny
as hell, it's funny, but like it also is like
nothing feels so safe anymore, so you really have to
know when to move and when to duck and when
to burnt right the way and even moment, and that

(28:24):
I think speaks to the idea of like you you
had said, you had said, like like you don't feel
joy without fear, and I think, I I'm I I
think I would see it a bit differently of like
you don't feel like like you mean to understand safety
without fear, because I think because I think joy, I
think I think joy is more about pain to me,

(28:47):
like like you know, like or like or like sadness,
because they're like like like those are both those are
both like more like emotive and like like in fear's
emotion as well too. But I think I think fear,
take you said earlier, is about not unsafety. And so
I think if you don't know fear, then that you
want to know what security is or something, because because
if you hastory and then you know that you have

(29:08):
nothing to fear in that moment or something. And so
I think, and so I think for myself, how I
learned to navigate fear or like discuss fear. Yeah, I mean,
I'm always having to reintrogate my relationship with it because
it helps me understand what my motivations are to do
things that are for me or not for me. Because
you better language understand what and it is me and
what brings me down. But I think what I've done

(29:30):
or how I've went about it is that a lot
of my fears. So my gosh, fear is like like
I have different types of fears, right, Like I use
have a fear of truth. So I lied to a
lot as a kid, and so now like I strive
to be truthful and honest and everything I do even
a point to my detriment or even like if it

(29:52):
doesn't feel good, I will still be. I try to
be honest because ling will feel worse, right, and I don't.
I don't want to fear truth. I want to embrace,
embrace truth and love truth. You know, I fear the
dark because the dark is like that, the dark is
I see as this like empty void. We're like what
like what is this? Right? And there are some ways

(30:13):
in which like I often think about when I what
I obviously about like my first cruise when I when
I saw the pitch blackness of the top deck at night,
and that's that terror. It's terrifying because I was like, bitch,
like I can get snash in bytodactyl or cracking get
me like who's who's know, whats happen? Right, but like
but also like immensely humbling too of like oh, I'm

(30:34):
actually but like but insignificant thing in the grandsk in
the world, right, And so it's like and so I
think what I've had to do is recognize that fear
will always be there, like fear is a companion. And
I don't think fear is always bad to I think
people fear feel fear is a frame. Fear is a
bad thing, yea like fear, I mean, fear is like
fear like anxiety is there to protect us in some

(30:57):
ways too, I think having fear is good because I
also think along with fear and safety or free and freedom, right,
it's also a sense of like if I don't feel fear,
then I then I also sometimes I don't feel courage right,
Like like I have to sometimes know what fear is
to know what courage is, because if I'm just if

(31:18):
I'm always courageous and not fearful, then then it is
really courageous, right, I see. And so.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
But so I think all four burners go off, girl, But.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Really I think I've had I've had realized like like right, people,
people fear being vulnerable because it means that they have
to expose themselves. People fear because it means that they
have to be honest about who they are, right and
right and then said the that is courageousness and break
and bravery with yourself. And so I think it's I
think myself, I they have learned how to as you know,

(31:55):
as Audie Lord says, right like like like like speak
even if my voice shakes, my voice shaking with fear,
but I have to speak anyways. And that's actually And
I think a lot about fear lately, especially these past
like this past year, just like what fear means? And
what does speaking up mean? And we're just speaking out
mean and what does like action look like in fear?
How do we let fear control us? And what us?

(32:18):
What you know?

Speaker 1 (32:19):
At what point?

Speaker 2 (32:20):
Like at one point is okay that fear is too
great as well too because in the day, like, fear
is real and in many cases cases, people are proven
right with their fears, right like people fear being having
a social death, having a physical death, having an emotional death,
right like and like those fears are real and they're
proven real. Whenever we sit outside the house or watch news.
So yeah, so I have to say, I think the

(32:42):
way I navigate is understanding that fear is gonna be
fear is gonna be associated with me, and I have
to choose the points in which it feels courageous to
me to do something about it, and the moments in
which and the ones in which in which of my
girl like actually don't have to address up here today,
like it's but I don't need to do that.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
Wait, I'm so glad that you said that, because it
really ties into this, you know, to the next point.
And I was gonna say, the moments when we feel
like we don't have to like worry about fear. I
think sometimes we don't. We don't really recognize how much
of that is wrapped in privilege. And I think I
think that we are like privileged people, right. I don't
think that this conversation for us is coming from a

(33:23):
place of privilege because I think, well, yes, so there's
there's our CIS gender privilege, right, we have our CIS
gender privilege. Yeah, we're both males. I would say, we're
both big males, and so very rarely I'll even say
that for me, like, you know, my mom is always
screaming be careful, my husband saying be careful. And I'm
very much in the mind of like I'm a big
I'm a big girl, and so very rarely do people
ever really want to run up on me because they're

(33:45):
probably fearful of the power behind my face and if.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
I can't fight, they don't want to find out. I mean,
but I can fight, just.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
Mail and San Bernardino. I know how to fight, and
I will, But my biggest thing is there. But what
I'm saying is I still think that there is a
luxury that folks have when when they talk about it,
and so even for me, right to an extent, there
are parts of this conversation that I want to because
I'm sure some people would come in and probably be like, well,
y'all are two sis men living in a world you

(34:17):
know that's almost built for you to excel. What do
you have to be scared of? And I want to say, yes,
that is a privilege that I want to acknowledge. But
I also think that there's still very much a conversation
too of there's a certain energy that I think we're
talking about here around this notion of fear, and I
think a big part of that is really actualizing and

(34:40):
giving onus or giving or vocalizing the white supremacy of
it all for us. Right, this idea that when you
said courage, that hit me a certain way because I'm
thinking to myself, there takes a certain element of courage
for us to still be us, even in space. Is

(35:00):
when we may feel like, well, my body and the
size of my body will protect me right for me
to for me to put on nails and have people
you know, I was, I laugh. I can laugh about
it because I've gotten to a place now where it
doesn't bother me as much. But even like you know, recently,
I was checking in somewhere and the woman looked at me,
or the person I should say, looked at me, and
they were like mister missus pronounced and I just was like,

(35:24):
I'm non binary, and we laughed about it in the moment, Right,
those are things, right, But even just thinking about how
maybe two or three years ago, I was so terrified
of that moment that it's taken me a lot of
work to get to a place now where I can
look someone dead in the face and go I'm not
binary system, I'm not worried about you. Worried about my
general you know, and so that's a luxury to some people.

(35:46):
They don't have to worry about that, whereas for us
it's an everyday thing. And so I think, I guess
for me and the bigger part of this conversation, right
you talking about being being afraid of the dark, and
you know, me talking about the year that I have
just of of you know, did I make the right decision?
These are They may seem small to some people, but

(36:06):
I think there's a very valid like in the through
line of this conversation, you know what I think of
kind of like the you know, when you look at
Oreo and then you see the white stuff and the
bigger with Oreo, that's what this conversation is between that.
That's the racism, sexism and all of them that we
have to navigate. And you know what I mean, And
I know it's it's a really silly difference.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
No, yeah, I think you're so well. So I think
if I mean, like I think I think I'm putting
up but with what what what we're putting down? I'll
bet to say, just just a point, if someone's gonna
tell us that the world was made for us because
we're sis. We're sis male body people. I like, I

(36:48):
just want to address like like we are systems like
and and let me be very clear, like while we
may have a physical privilege of being bigger body and
a physical stagety may not a tip us attack us
because we're bigger and or because we're a man, does
not guarantee emotional safety or mental safety. And let me
tell you, yes, there are still there are still there

(37:12):
are still groups of people who will still attack us
on the street, like regardless, right, yeah, like right, likely privileged.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
I don't want to I hear what you I mean,
I don't want to take that away. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
I mean like like I I I don't think you're
saying that, right, But like I'm just like if people
look at us and they're like, oh, like you know
so much privilege worlds made for you simply because of
our like male like bodies, I'm like, sure physically we're
left to be harmed or unsafe physically, physically educations because
people probably won't want to want to attack us, but

(37:46):
then layer that what they want attack us because we're queer,
because we're fam because we're black, because we're fat right,
like in that nick could be emotional. It could be
physical attacks as well too, Like it's like it it
is different, and so I I want to I want
to name that of like privileges is a weird dance
and we have to constantly the weird line them to
constant dance with but a little different for every person

(38:07):
every way. Now, I think what you know, I think,
I think, I think what what with what you're saying.
We're in a moment in time where we're seeing so
many white folks like leading the charge of vocalizing things
and like laying and I say seeing them as in
like the ones are getting the most like like the
most uh press sometimes for it. Yeah, and they're with

(38:32):
you know, they're willing to like lay down their whatever
and the hills that they want to die on. And
it's a reminder that the steaks may not be as
high for them. Right if there's retaliation against some burstus
retaliation against black folks, for folk other folks of color
like and the folks of color, right, there were a
moment time where many of us of color are using

(38:53):
their voice constantly and they are using their bodies and
their privileges but they had. But like, but they do that,
making it the intentional choice of understanding that they not
be able to go where they want to go, like
by the end of it, right like and nothing wrong.
What I'm saying is that like, those of color most
likely are like making making making these decisions and error

(39:18):
a saying like I don't care if I lose my job.
I don't care if I because like, because this is
what this is what matters to me, right, the consequences
are worse for us.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
The white folks often don't have to have that fear.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
They they can do what they want to do in
most most cases and not fear losing their job or
not fear having someone come for them. Right, those of
color are the ones who have who have higher stakes
in it. And so I think that that that's why
I think about a lot when it comes to like
fear and how we show up because like, because the
consequences are like, they're higher, but they're very real, right, Like,

(39:53):
I don't want to lose my job, not not like
not like not not because I like, like particularly love it,
I mean I do, but like because I also truly
cannot afford to not have a job. Amen, and amen,
and and to find a new job would dig a
long time to write the same way, you know, but like,
but but like, I I can afford losing some friendships

(40:16):
if if it means that I write so if if
my vocal ability isn't out loud and small circles with
friends with friendships, I means to lose friendships. Something I
can do that because I would rather, I would rather
you know, be honest about the things that care about
with people, and and like and read that out right.
But you know, like we have to make we have
to make the we have to make the decision of

(40:39):
like what of like what is worth giving up for us?
And again that's the decision that folks of color have
to think about, is what is worth us giving up?
And we renite that in every single way that everything
we do, what do we have to give up to
be here or to do this thing that many folks
don't have that many nonfense of color and many you know,

(41:00):
non queer folks, they don't, they don't have they have
non chancells. They don't have to do that. They make
decisions and not worry about what am I sacrificing to
do this thing?

Speaker 1 (41:10):
Who who?

Speaker 2 (41:11):
Who am I also who whom? I also sacrificing this
thing and that is just like a constant thing that
we have to grapple with and again pleas to be
a fear. Right. We then have to fear what happens after.

Speaker 1 (41:23):
This, And I would I would idea right, and I
would even go as far to say, you know, and
I'll say this publicly, I think you're you're really tapping
on something that's very salient for me in my own mind,
because in the last few months, my mind has has
clicked over in a way that I've never really experienced it,
where I was so passionate and so very much like
I want to make space for LGBTQ people and I

(41:45):
want to make space for black people, and I want
to do this, and I want to do that. I
have been really battling with this idea of going like
it doesn't feel like it's ever going to change, and
I feel like I'm wasting my voice and my time
and my energy when everything in the world just feels
so terrible. And I think that that's one of the
biggest pieces of fear that I have is you know.

(42:06):
And I'll even say this on the air like I
sometimes I wonder, you know, I it doesn't cross my
mind often, but it does. You know, did I talk myself?
Have I talked myself out of greater opportunity? And I'll
be transparent and saying like I'm very aware of like
my mind works in such an interesting way. I can say, ah, shit,

(42:28):
I think I may have talked myself out of a
great opportunity because I was so you know, pro this
or pro that for the liberation of us. Right. But
then there's another part of my mind that goes, girl, well,
you didn't want to want to you wouldn't have wanted
to work with that company anyway. And I'm like, you're right,
you're right. So like there's still there's still this thing
that goes on in my head. But I think, what's
to say all of that? Right, and showing the humanistic

(42:53):
side of that. I don't even know if that's a
real work, but like the humanistic side of it all,
really looking at it from this idea of like how
fucked up that is? Right, how that lives in our mind,
like how that lives in our minds that I shouldn't
have to worry about my livelihood because I say that
this in particular group of people, this, this in particular country,

(43:18):
this in particular place. These people deserve to live, right,
These people deserve to have great homes and feel safe.
Right that like the fact that my livelihood rest on
if I say something about that or not, Like I
don't and I think that. I guess that's really what
this conversation is. It's a way of saying, like, how
fucked up? And I think that's the only way I

(43:39):
can put it. I know I'm cursing a lot, but
it's like that's literally where my spirit is. It's a
really fucked up thing to think about how there's so
much that your your your life, and your livelihood rest
on by you simply saying I just want to have
an easier life, or I want people to have an
easier life. I don't want fat people to have to

(44:02):
feel like they have to shrink themselves, right, or I
don't want black people to feel like they have to
took away their blackness in order for them to thrive.
And it's in this particular area. Like even yesterday, like
I said, I said, you know, there was a part
of me that was really excited with with you know,
being where I was right. I'm I'm I'm I'm in
a place where I'm living my dream. You know. I'm like, oh, yes,

(44:25):
if I'm in it, I'm in it with Apple. And
then I have another black person walk up to me
and they go, yo, it's real good to see you here,
And in the interaction, I know exactly what he means, right, Like,
we shouldn't have to do that, but that is that
is a that it is a reality for us that
even in the moment when we're the happiest that we
can ever be right, money is good, bills are paid,

(44:49):
food is in the fridge, gas is in your car.
You know, you may have been able to find I
got a thirty seven dollar check from the text, you know,
from from from the the gum min sent me? Are
in fun of thirty seven dollars back today, Like, even
in that there is still that lingering moment of fear

(45:10):
of something of white supremacy or oppression or whatever the case.
It's just it's there and it never goes away. And
so I like, I feel sort of cathartic, I don't
know if that's the right word, but in having that conversation,
because I think in a way of me and you
being able to talk about this on the on the

(45:30):
mic and on the air. You know, I personally the
reason why I brought it up is I just want
to validate that a lot of us are not living
the you know, you may see the smiles, and you
may see the Instagram post, and you may see the
oh look, bitch, look what I'm doing. Look at the
happy life that I'm and then I'm curating for myself.

(45:51):
But it's real over here for a lot of us,
like we are all contending with so much, and the
same thing for you, Like, I know there's a lot
you want to say, and I look at when we
get to certain topics and I look at you and
it's like, damn, I know my sister can't say that,
she can't say what she wants to say. And I'm
sure you look at me and think the same thing.
There's a lot of shit that I want to say.

(46:12):
There's a lot of shit that I want to say
about other people that I know that has experienced over
the last couple of months. And the fucked up part
of it is capitalism, white supremacy and all the other
pieces of it tell you can't and it's just a
thing you have to sit with. You just have to
sit with knowing that even in a lot of your fearlessness,

(46:32):
there is still this this kind of I don't know
how to even explain it there. It's just there's almost
this kind of crust, this nasty crust that sits there
that's kind of just like, well, what what what is
tomorrow going to look like for you? Girl?

Speaker 2 (46:47):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (46:48):
You know? So wow?

Speaker 2 (46:53):
Uh? I I just say I I I often play
back this this excerpt from Lost Culturistas, which is a
show are networking that was in and she does like
her like, I don't think so, honey, and it's it's

(47:15):
it's really funny thing. But she makes a comment at
the end of saying authenticity is dangerous and expensive, and
I like, it's like it's funny, right, like she said,
it's a fairly funny thing. But when I hear that,
I'm always like, like, it is like you and I think

(47:36):
that's what this w what you're saying about that a lot
that's like yeah, like it's it's like it's dangerous and
I mean that in every work is dangerous physically dangerous,
emotionally dangerous, mentally dangerous, economically to like to like to
say and new things sometimes, and I think, like, I think, right,
this moment has taught me there is a value in

(47:57):
knowing when to say something or where to say something
and how to say something like there is something value
in that. But I definitely have been seeing myself like
you know this, this that's really made me think about
I don't know how much more I can like allow
myself to not be silent but like but to not

(48:18):
say something sometimes because then I feel like I'm getting
close to that point where I'm like, I feel like
I need and and and and I think if people
follow me and if they peep a lot, they'll see
see there, They'll see that there there are somethings I
I I hint at here and there around or you know,
I'll put little icons somewhere and stuff as like my

(48:40):
own little like fuck you resistance thing. But it's to
a point now where I'm like, oh, like autistic, that
is expensive. But other part of me is like, I
don't know how much more I can feel endangered myself
before I like, like before I can start saying like
it's okay, that's dangerous that I can still do this thing.
So so or anything.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
If you know, you know, it's watermelon season over here
all the time babies, and I like, saw, oh my water.
But the other thing I was going to say to
that point is I also want to say that in
this conversation, right it is very important to ask yourself
if you are not at a place right now where
you are tired of seeing all the stuff going on

(49:23):
around you. I hear kind of this common theme that
I'm hearing a lot of people say, I'm just tired
of this. I'm tired of this, and I'm kind of like,
I know it sounds awful to just kind of be like, yeah,
you know, I'm sorry, it sucks. There's a part of
me that's happy when I hear people say this all
feels so awful, and this all feels so heavy because
it tells me that people that I care about give
a damn, you know what I mean. But if you're

(49:46):
in a place right now where none of this shit
is affecting you, and I say this across the gamut,
if you're not affected by anything that's happening right now,
if you're not tired, if you're not feeling a certain
type of way, I have a lot of questions for
you about where your priorities are, because if it ain't
one thing is something else, and I'm gonna just leave
it at that. Like, there's just so much happening. So

(50:06):
to your point, if you're sitting around and you're not
I would't even say fearful, if you're not bothered by
everything that you're seeing and everything that you're feeling, My god, Like,
what kind of what that's That's the real privilege right there.
I want to know. I want to know that privilege.
I would love to taste that kind of privilege because

(50:27):
I'm everything is buddy, y'all.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
Have you find that? And how you get that? Because
we want them to?

Speaker 1 (50:34):
Okay, how do I get some of that? Because yes,
go off.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
So now that we have changed our good sis zigns
and someone face may give your fears, we have to
take a break to pay the piper. Be back in
just a sec my god.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
So this week for how You for our next segment,
I decided to jump back into the How You Healing
back And it's because one we've literally left How You
Healing in the dust, and I was like, we need
to bring her back around just to kind of talk
through some of the stuff and you know, kind of
put like a really cute bowl on this whole conversation. Right,
So we talked about irrational fears earlier, We've talked about

(51:27):
kind of just the fear I really would say the
fear of being an American really is a lot of
what that conbo was, but also this notion of, you know,
really talking about our own self fears. And so I
did want to ask as we kind of like, you know,
wrap it all up, it's really thinking about, you know,
in terms of being scared, right, what is something that

(51:48):
you want to get more comfy with or something that
you would like to kind of step out of being
afraid of. And I know, for myself, I said, you know,
and I'm not saying that I'm going to do it,
So I want to make it very clear and I'm
not talking about actually doing it. However, I do have
friends that I follow both on Instagram and on uh

(52:09):
on Twitter who are what I like to call big
bodied people, and they always got their shirts off, and
it's always this notion of like, I just wish I
could feel that comfortable with my shirt off in front
of the camera or in front of people. And so
I told myself, you know this this summer, if I
do go to the beach, if I do go out

(52:30):
in a like to a pool or do something, I'm
really going to challenge myself to be a little bit
more comfortable with taking my shirt off. And it is
you know, like I said, I think a big part
of it is is growing up and getting teased because
of you know, my moo, my movies, which I've, like
I said in a few episodes before, I've become very
comfortable with. But it's there's still this element of of

(52:50):
of of true fear that I have about taking my
shirt off around people. And it's and it's really not
even just being fat, it's the idea of just being
around other people. I think that I have the uncomfort
comfortableess with I like my body, but it's also but
I know that the world doesn't and having to contend
with that. And so I told myself, I said, this year,

(53:11):
I'm really going to try to like put kind of
theory into motion and really step into this notion of like,
if you're out and about and you can't take your
shirt off, do it. But yeah, what about you, what's
something that you're like looking at that you're like, maybe
I'm afraid of and I want to do this to
kind of like shape you.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Know, minus is kind of along the same vein Like
it was such I probably have been like only two
three years now where I have been fund to get
my shirt off at a pool or the beach, you know,
or like like at some like yeah, in some like
public area. It was a conscious decision I made to

(53:48):
do it one because I had to tell myself, like,
this is the body that I have, and this body
that I have is deserving of like some sunlight first
of all, but also like but also like it's deserving
a feeling free in the water, because let's be clear,
when you go swimming with you said that ship weighs
you down, you makes you feel happy? It really is.

(54:09):
It's just like not does that flugget or like or
feels that cute? And so I was I was like,
you knowing, like your body is deserving a feeling like
like everybody else's does in this way, like especially have
the privilege of having a body that can still do this,
and so so I've I've done that consciously, but it's
also hard. I've also had to remind myself like nobody

(54:31):
actually cares. Like nobody actually cares. I mean there are
people who who may or may not care, right and
like those folks will show themselves to do very quickly.
But like Majia, folks do not give me a fuck
about like about me have my shirt off, and neither
do I like if I have to sit through see
the should not thing and sit through through my shirt
off as well too. But I meant by doing it
with people I love and care about and I trust,

(54:53):
and that's made me feel comfortable to then do it
out more and more in public. But what I'm growing
into is do it more around like other gays, because
that's where I probably feel the most challenge. Just like
if I'm if I ever go to a gay party,
which honestly I don't want, I wouldn't want wanted those.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
Those I don't know who why do people enjoy them?
Why would you do that?

Speaker 2 (55:19):
You even swim? You just stand there you do so.
I mean, I love going to the pool with my friends,
but if I ever myself in a space with other
queer folks at the pool party, how will I be
sure to listen call that good day to myself? And
I typically this is a bit like a bit like

(55:40):
a racy for me, but trying to get into like
harnesses and like and like they just wear those out
like not where those app like if I go to
like a bare night or something here, then like just
feel just like having the harness on and that. So
I'm trying to work it feels like we're because it's
like it's like it's like sexual way that I don't

(56:00):
sally feel with them. Trying to embrace myself more in
that way. And also it actually just you can just
just be other day. But I'm trying to my goal.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
Does she a fashion choice? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Yeah, so so my goal is to work up something
like that that would be fun and interesting. I have
one that I've been wearing around the house more.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
I'm like, thank.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
You, But she she she's a little tired, though she's not.
She literally just covers.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
That is a good question, and I'm like, cover more
of the teeth a little bit, yes, please.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
I was gonna say, shout out, listeners, if y'all know
of a place that carries big body harnesses, please let
us know. I would love to be able to shout
that out and put that in the notes for folks.
Who need it or may want one. I mean, I
don't know if I'll buy one anytime soon, but I
will say that I I I know that there are
listeners who probably want to know where folks can get
a big body harness too, So let us know. Shout

(57:00):
out to our to the listener who might be able
to share that info with us. All right, I appreciate
you sharing. I see again, that's why we sisters. We
sisters because our minds be thinking the same when we
start talking about that we see each other. We're gonna
lift up Treval Anders's name in that sense, go by
the book. That being said, we've got your favorite, I'm

(57:21):
gonna reset that, all right, ch'all. So with that being said,
we've got your favorite segment on deck, so stick around
for your favorite segge. Yes ma'am, no man Pam will
be back in a second, all right, ch'all. So I'm
gonna go ahead and drive the boat like I always
do with the segment, Yes, ma'am, no man Pam. This week,

(57:43):
my yes ma'am is our bisexual queen Diva Victoria Mone.
I definitely want to say that I am house of
Victoria Monet or house of Monet, all the Monet's, Victoria Monet,
Janelle Monee. I think that's the only Mona. Is there
another moname change? So I like her too. She hopefully

(58:06):
she's supposed to be on the show in a couple
of weeks. So yes, I shout out to all the Moneti's.
But with that being said, I just wanted to shout
out the visuals for all right. You know, I want
to say this, The girls don't want to work anymore.
And every time I see Victoria do something that and
I say, this is not a pejorative that bitch works.

(58:27):
She just works. She puts her heart and her soul
into everything she touches, and I just I can't. I
can't stand an art artist beyond Beyonce. Obviously, I'm gonna
always stand Beyonce. I just love the energy that Victoria
puts into everything that she does. You can just tell

(58:49):
that there's this element of like respect for the art
that she has and that have you seen the video.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
Not yet, but that's all it came out, and it's.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
Just it's it's three minutes of and from the dancing
to the lights to the water moment at the end
of it, like there's just so the fact that Dave
Myers did the video she said budget like, it's just
I go up for Victoria Monet in ways that a
lot of people probably don't, But I just I think
she's one of She is that girl to watch in

(59:22):
terms of like artistry and creativity. I also want to
shout out to you that Normani just dropped their first
single as well. Finally, Normani, I have been on her
head and I know that she's gone through a lot.
I say it jokingly when I'm always up in her dms,
like hey girl, when are you gonna drop the album?
I know that she's gone through a lot, and I'm
very happy to see that she's finally in a place

(59:42):
where she feels like she one has the support from
her label to put out the album the way she wants. Yeah,
and then also too that she's also mentally in a
good place. I think something happened. She had a family
matter happened. I'm not too sure what that was, but
I know that that was a big part of why
she pulled back from putting her album Mouth. But I
say all of that to say, I'm just the dolls

(01:00:03):
are eating and I am.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
Like longs that list as well too, because because uh Kaylan,
because her positive video. I mean, I mean I'm saying
like I mean the next to You video, which people,
this is the moment. I'm sure someone's gonna cry a
company for it. But like the video was beautiful, was
a beautiful video, like she shifted the video. No, no,

(01:00:25):
it was like like like she shifted she shifted the
theme of the video for whatever she was like into
one that celebrated like like like uh like the the
subbody more okay, it was like super queer, but like
but the dancing basically, like do you have her performance?

(01:00:46):
That girl commits to a dance choreography and singing when
she when she's after Hours her first single, she's doing
like they're doing like wely just eats it up, so like.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
Two play in her face. I'm not a huge Tanache fan,
but what I will say is that that doll performs.
When she performs, she's singing, she's dancing, She's giving you showmanship.
And I want to add that to her to you
are never going to get the girls don't work like

(01:01:20):
a Normani or Victoria Monet or Janelle Monet or Kaylani
or so yeah, a Tanashi like I appreciate seing. When
the girls hit the stage, they work, so I want
to just shout them out and say just I guess
my general yes ma'am is to all the girls, and
I say girls, you know trans too. I know that
there's some trans artists out there that probably am not

(01:01:42):
that I don't know of, that are out here working.
They ask us off too, to make to make really
great art. But I'm just to anybody who's out there
putting their art out and putting their heart and soul
into it. That is my yes ma'am this week. But
I'm excited for Normani's album to drop anyway. My nomad
pam So I was going back and forth because there
was a lot of shit that had happened in the
last couple of weeks, and I said to myself, I said, I,

(01:02:03):
there are all these things in my mind was everywhere,
But I'm gonna stick with the one that I initially
wrote down yesterday. So I want to make it very
clear that I appreciate I How do I say this
without it coming across a certain kind of way. I'm
I guess I'm just gonna say it. I appreciate when

(01:02:24):
organizations are doing their like doing their best to be like,
oh representation, YadA, YadA, YadA. You know, but I think
it's I just I find that a lot of the
stuff that our orgs are doing are lazy, and I
think that that I think that's where this conversation is
is leaning towards. I just find this to be lazy,
and so I wanted to name that. While I appreciate

(01:02:48):
that San Diego Business Journal did do an LGBTQ Leaders
and Influencers of twenty twenty four, I appreciate that, I
think it's very lazy. There were no black people on
that list.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
There is one. There is one point five five there
there there's there's one who is only because I know
her very well, and and there's one other person who
is who is mixed black as well. To you, But
I was Lissa. Fifty people, majority of whom are quite
as hell. Tis a very small statistic number, and that

(01:03:27):
and that in itself is.

Speaker 1 (01:03:29):
And that so okay. So to my point, So I
so I will go back and not necessarily say that
there was not one. There were some, but in a
world very very few, very few, but in a world
where I know you in a world where I know
another person who's running a magazine, in a world where
I know a couple of queer journalists who live in

(01:03:50):
San Diego, in a world where I know that there
are a lot of queer queer Black people that like
like a Kelsey who was doing things for the community
and winning award like it's just lazy. And I think,
for you know, I think some people when I call
this kind of stuff out, I think people are thinking, well,

(01:04:10):
John is just being you know, in their feelings that
they weren't on the list. And I can go, I
can give two fucks about somebody putting my name on
a list. My frustration is is that I should not
have to name it. I should not have to be
this bothered by me looking at another queer list and going,
where are the black people that are making a difference
in San Diego? Where are the black people that are

(01:04:32):
making a difference in the LGBTQ community, especially when it's
us who are the ones often leading the charge and
like you said a couple of segments ago, being chastised
for the charges that we lead. So that's where my
mind is right now. You can't you can't just throw
a couple of faces on something for Pride Month and

(01:04:52):
then just be like, oh, well we celebrated Pride, we
did our part. No bitch, you got to do your
due diligence and really call in the people who are
doing the work, especially right now. And that's that has
been And I guess we're getting into kind of you
know again, John, why are you not in therapy and
on a mic? I think for me, you know, just

(01:05:14):
even just recently, right, I went up to Sacramento and
I saw all of the people in that room that
were advocating for Bill AB nineteen fifty five. And while
I was so happy about it, right and why I
was so excited to see all of the people that
I saw up there, my frustration was, I can guarantee
you that a lot of these people that were saying
we need to support this bill have not made room

(01:05:36):
for other black and black and trans people to be
in a space to advocate for themselves, or have made
them feel a certain way that they feel like they
can't use their whole voice. And so that's what my
point is. So call me what you want, make sure
you just put doctor in front of it. But I'm
sick of it. I am really sick of constantly feeling
like it's twenty twenty four. It's not that hard to

(01:06:01):
google people who are doing the work. It is not
hard to find us. And still I'll say this and
then I'll shut up. It's just it feels intentional at
this point. It feels very intentional that spaces are doing
what they can or doing what they want to make

(01:06:22):
sure that black queer people specifically are not getting their
due diligence. When we when I feel like, and I
say we collectively, we are the ones that are putting
a lot of our own livelihood on the line to
move the to move change. If that makes sense, I'll

(01:06:43):
shut up now.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
I mean I when I saw that, I was like,
what was the criteria for this? I'm just I'm I'm
just curious for this. I just like who made decisions?
But also knowing that it's positional, I was like, you
already know. Now, I'm I'm not too word of over
over what they think about other people, to be quite honest,

(01:07:07):
but I will give shout out to my girl Yinka.
You get Freeman, who is who is one of the
black folks on that and one of the very few
pots of color on that because she is everything lived.
Ina is a fucking ball of lights and is a
dope ass like events person in San Diego. It is
so so cool and I'm on to work alongside her

(01:07:28):
on Black Pride, which at least my yes, ma'am, it
will be too black per sending a Black Pride, not
just because I am on the board of it, but
also because we are. I wanted to I wanted to
invite to everyone listening that she folkus if you are
BFF from Black Black Pride. July fifth through seventh of
this year, that is in this comes out in a
few weeks. We have day passes, we have weekend passes.

(01:07:52):
Weekend passes forty forty months. We for the whole weekend.
We have a lot of things playing me a Friday,
we have a kickoff party and a ball a kiki
all that we're doing in San Diego. Saturday. Saturday, we're
doing a family cookout that is free, and then we
are doing a freaknick beach dance party, WHI would be
so excited because we are being HBCU to the beach,

(01:08:14):
essentially honoring the the freaking life that will be adults
only Saturday night and then your kid does include food
and drinks, baby girl. Then Sunday is gonna be a
day party as well. So we have four full events
that we're doing that we're hosting. If y'all are in sendaygo,
please come through. You're not please throughout coming through for

(01:08:34):
it be amazing and fun. I'll be there working it,
so please come and join me and come celebrate Black
Pride with me. We're getting bigger every year, so it's
gonna be an amazing time. July fifth through seventh. My
NOMAM PAM is gonna be just to like, just to
anyone who's lazy during bride, and I mean anyone as

(01:08:54):
in corporations, big.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
Big business like y'all.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
I just y'all have just given up and at this point,
and I'm like, you are finding any everybody who is
cute or like has some cute thing that you can
just like prop it off of. And I'm just like,
y'all can do so much better than this, Like it
really is giving lazy is giving intentional and also like
y'all want to do that, but like when when people boycott,

(01:09:21):
don't be upset about it. And I also give an
m to this video. I saw Oh my god. I
don't know who posts this video, but there is a
trend called birth tourism, which basically means that if you're pregnant,
you will bring your pregnant ass to a different country.
So to what to one of the countries that allows
this to be bored? So then you get cysts, then

(01:09:43):
Chalcott sist and you get me a passport. And I
just want to say, now, the person who made this
was a was a person of at least let's let's
say the likeness of skin descent, if not quite descent,
I have to say, is giving funny that y'all would
really colonize birthing and immigration like this. So what you're

(01:10:06):
saying is you believe in immigration, which is like, what
you're saying is that you think people should immigrate. Okay, work,
but if but if folks go do it, it's poor
and if you do it right, make it makes sense?
Girl like you really said, let me go to Puerto Rico.
So sorry said to Costrica pert Rico as a US strategy,

(01:10:27):
Well let me go to Costa Rica and have a child.
So the way I get passport for free and my
check is citizenship. Girl, girl like girl, because we love
If right here, you'll be like, why are you up
here using resources? Like it makes no sense?

Speaker 1 (01:10:42):
So I just make it makes sense girl, girl?

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
It has me while. So no, maybe he believes in
this idea or this trend. If you do, then you
better believe in immigration rights, immigration justice and how folks
who are migrants get into Amerca safely, and you believe
in their right to access their free lives here in
America as well too if you don't, because you've just
done for that girl.

Speaker 1 (01:11:03):
Nah. And I'm also going to say, I'm let y'all
in on a real secret before we move on that.
Have you seen so you know what I'm not going
to do? Have you seen that TikTok of? I think
that person might be Asian American. But they they were
talking about how they were at the gym and this
white man came up to them and said, Hey, I

(01:11:23):
just want to know where are you from? You look
so exotic And she looked at him and she was
like mmm, she was like, I'm from here. No, I
think she was Native American. She was like, I'm from here,
she was like, and he was like, no, well, you
don't look like you're from here. Where are you from?
And she was like, I'm from here. I'm from here.
She was like, but actually, now that we're talking about it,

(01:11:44):
you look exotic. Exactly you're from And then he was like,
I'm American and she was like, exactly, I'm from here.
You're not like you're you're exotic. She was like, so
white people are exotic if you really think about it.
And I was like, girl, you better get you better
say that, because she was one hundred timpercent right. None
of us are from here. Yeah, you're actually the one

(01:12:08):
that's exotic. You can't here to colonize us, so you
don't even Yeah, okay girl, But anyway, all that to
be said, that's my secret. I'm gonna let y'all in on.
The secret is is that a lot of a lot
of the folks that are talking about immigration and who
who can and can't live here actually shouldn't be here
in the first place anyway, because this was never your land.
But we all know this. Anyway, all that to be said,

(01:12:32):
send your thoughts, feedback and email to Blackfatfempod at gmail
dot com. You can send us your thoughts for your
social media by interacting with our post on Instagram and
Twitter by using the handle black Fatfempod. Also, if you
haven't had a chance, I'm gonna just throw this out
one more good time for the peoples. If you haven't
had a chance to listen to our episode of Black
People of Paramore with Sequoia, what are you waiting for?

(01:12:54):
It was honestly a moment. So I just want to
make sure that you have a chance to go over
there and get those pikis. I think that episode came
out last week, all right, But anyway, Joho, where can
the dolls find you?

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
Of course, my loves, you can find me at Jojo
Danil's across all socials, my websitet, jorddale dot com, n
F nothing you can find me curls the fuck up
in my house this summer, my body is clearly done
with traveling constantly, uh nomadic influencers. I just want to
know how do you do this? Like, how do you
travel from place to place and be fine? Because I'm not.

(01:13:28):
I'm not fine, I'm not okay. I am just exhausted.
I'm tiring. My body said, bit you sick, So you'll
find me at home. But also let me know how
y'all can do this safely because this is doing this
is unstable, unstable for my ass right now, think.

Speaker 1 (01:13:40):
You no, I for people who do this and like, yeah,
I travel every day. I'm like the fuck, like, how
do you do this? Because this is old? Like I'm
over it already. I'm right there with you? Why why?

Speaker 2 (01:13:52):
Why why am I paying right there there?

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
Like no, no, right there with you. I've literally probably
been in my apartment maybe five days. He's solid this month,
and I'm just I prayed for this, but I also
just I pray for a time where I don't have
to pack all that. To be said, you can visit
my website at WTB dot doctor Johnpaul dot com, or
you can add me on social by using at doctor

(01:14:14):
John Paul. Otherwise you can catch me packing up one
more time for one more trip and then I am
free from hotel hell for I would say about two
or three weeks before I have to flo out again
in July. So I'm just hoping again. I'm trying to
count my blessings and think about the joy that I
will have being home. And then there's a whole bunch

(01:14:36):
of other stuff too, because there's conversations about us possibly
moving and blah blah blah blah blah. So who knows.
But all that to be said, I know I probably
just dropped out, and you're like, what moving locally? We
won't be moving anywhere Fargus, we know. No, I'm not
moving out of the state or anywhere else. No, I'm
not going anywhere. I always tell people I probably will
never leave California because I understand the racism here, and

(01:15:01):
I understand it, and I don't really comprehend like North
Dakota racism. I'm sure it's different than you know, So
Cow racism. So I'm gonna go ahead and stay, you know,
stick to the things I know what TLA, stick to
the ryms of the lakes, Paris Lake, I'm gonna go ahead,
stick to that. Uh you know, Lake Elson or Big

(01:15:23):
Bear Lake, all of those are the lakes.

Speaker 2 (01:15:25):
I know.

Speaker 1 (01:15:26):
I'm gonna go ahead and stick to all that. But anyway,
all that to be said, we want to thank our
wonderful producer Bey Wang for handling all the logistics, and
everyone over at IHEARTM Media for keeping this show up
and running. We would like to shout out our wonderful
editor Chris Rogers, who is just again really doing it
up over here for the Black Fat Fem Podcast. We

(01:15:46):
are so grateful to have such an amazing editor, and
we want to also thank them for constantly uh oh no,
not even thanks them. I just want to continue to
say again every episode, this is what we're Episode one,
know one. It has been how many months? How many months? Jaselle?
It's been wait, so December, January, very much April, May, June.

(01:16:10):
It's the second week of June, so it has been
about six months and two weeks. So if we're breaking
that down to days, it's been a little over two
hundred and something days that we do not have the
visuals for the Renaissance film, and it has been almost
two years and we do not have visuals for Renaissance,

(01:16:33):
the actual album. I'm never gonna get off the mic
and I'm never gonna get off of your lace about
that Beyonce? Beyonce, I want.

Speaker 2 (01:16:41):
You, Yeah, because she give us visuals visually with the albums,
the past three albums, past four albums, So why not
give it to why?

Speaker 1 (01:16:50):
Just why why, Jazelle? Why why are we still here?
Why are we still here? Anyway? All that to be said,
this has been another show. It's funny, Paus. It's funny
because every time I say this has been another show
in my head. Because we listen back to the episode,
I can hear the music playing show Stay black Chat,

(01:17:16):
remember fabulous, and remember black won't crack and Brown won't frown.
I love the thrill. Bye,

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