December 24, 2024 • 27 mins
Today's special guest is Donte West , Advocacy Associate at The Last Prisoner Project, an organization dedicate to exonerating incarcerated people for offenses that are now legal such as marijuana possession and usage.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Last Prisoner Project was founded in twenty nineteen out
of the belief that no one should remain incarcerated or
suffering the collateral consequences of offenses that are now legal.
They brought together a group of justice impacted individuals, policy
and education experts, and leaders in the worlds of criminal
justice and drug policy reform to work to end the
fundamental injustice that is America's policy of cannabis prohibition and
(00:24):
the war on drugs. Their dedicated team works tirelessly to
achieve the goal of freeing the tens of thousands of
individuals still unjustly imprisoned and creating front end systemic reform
to the criminal legal system. Dante West is the two thousand,
seven hundred and seventy ninth exonerated person in the United States,
according to the University of Michigan Law School. After serving
(00:46):
three years of an eight year sentence for a pound
of marijuana, he prevailed on his pro say motion and
his prison sentence was vacated, plus his conviction was overturned.
In twenty twenty one, he was hired at the Last
Prisoner per Project to help release cannabis prisoners across the
United States and he is our guest today. This is
(01:08):
the Black Information Network Daily Podcast, and I am your host,
Ramsy's job. All right, Dante West, Welcome to the show man.
We've been looking forward to this conversation. How you doing today.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Thank you for having me, man. I'm doing so well.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Got a prisoner out today, actually, and the feeling is
just a feeling I can't describe.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Oh well, do your best describe its Help us know
what that feels like.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Wrote down there at four thirty in the morning to
just in correctional facility. We're free to guy named Dishawn
Durham was serving nearly an eight year sentence. We got
him out in almost three years. And it's just a feeling.
It's a rare occurrence. People do not receive clemency. But
for him to get his sentence commuted by the governor
after the prison review board denied him of getting clemency,
(01:54):
it just says a lot about the state of Kansas,
because if the audience doesn't know, the state of Kansas
doesn't have no form of legalization whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Okay, okay, yeah, that's got to feel really good, all right,
So I definitely want to get to, you know, the
work that you're doing now, but do us a favor
fill in some of the gaps. We talked a little
bit about you being as HONERATD but talk to us
a bit about your background. You know where you grew up,
you know what what set you on this path and
then ultimately what led you to the conversation we're about
(02:25):
to have today.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah, man, just grew up in Stockton, California, been there
all my life.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Took a road trip to Kansas.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Eventually got went to prison for pound in marijuana, which
was you know, crazy, went to jerry trial, ended up
getting found guilty for the pound in marijuana and got
sentced nearly eight years.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Kind of with drove. My motivation was.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Was the sole provider of my two younger brothers, which
were eight nine years old at the time, and seeing
these lifers fight for their cases, and I felt like
I did the.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Same, you know, I could potentially prevail.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
And I ended up, you know, writing a motion trying
to get home back to prison, and I mean trying
to get back home out of prison, and went ahead
and also just kind of filed from my clemency, got
support of the wonderful mayor of La Karen Bass also
a former congress woman, and my hopes were up and
eventually prevailed on this motion, ended up getting out of prison,
(03:24):
getting exonerated in twenty twenty one after.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
They tried to retry the case. And I kind of
opened my.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Eyes while being in prison because I noticed that so
many people were locked up for cannabis while I was
in there, and somewhere first time offenders, but somewhere habitual offenders,
you know, getting caught a couple of times with cannabis
in the state and made me realize, like these people
are serving more time than somebody that, you know, kind
of committed manslaughter. So out of clemency exists. It existed
(03:54):
with someone like me, Rode one hundred and twenty five
state representatives, Rode forty senators, one state reperence that came
see me named Willie Duve and said he would do
everything he can to get me out, and I eventually
just prevailed on my pro se motion with the help
of the point of Attorney Chris Biggs, and I got out,
and I just had a fire under my belt just
(04:16):
to see who else I can help get out and
been successful doing that.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
With the Nonprofitized Prisoner Project, my focus.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Is anybody in the Midwest or the Southern states. I
take the lead on it, and I kind of got
an unorthodox approach. But man, it's just like as states
become legal and then you look at the sentencing guidelines,
they really outdated.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
So when you look at the.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Outdate of sentencing guidelines and we see people and companies
and wealthy individuals want to open up dispensaries across the state,
what about the people that's locked up? You know, the
greatest kid you can give anybody is freedom, but sometimes
they put the money before that. And also you save
money by incarcerated person. In Kansas, for instance, is thirty
thousand dollars a year to even incarcerate somebody. So when
(05:03):
you look at something like that, can that money be
better use elsewhere? So I look at stuff like that
and it made me realize that there's a lot.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
More work to be done.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
So you went to law school, No, I.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Didn't technically go to law school.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
I'm doing this stuff in California to become a lawyer.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Okay, that's what I was.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
But I did go to Rutgers Law School, did cannabis
law and business.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Okay, then that's what I got it.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Yeah, so I did a little bit of that, but
just continue to educate myself, which is important.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Man.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
I don't want to be one signed approach on helping people.
I want to be versatile as possible. So that's what
drives me is to continue to be in the student
and I act like I know it all, and as
I learn more, I can help more.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yeah. Yeah, So I can see that your commitment goes
beyond just you know, let me see what I can do,
but let me see who I can become that I
can do even more. And I think that that's part
of what was so compelling when we had our you
know meeting prior to you know, approving this, uh, this conversation,
(06:10):
that was the part that was the most compelling. So
talk to us a little bit about your work alongside
a former US attorney for Kansas, very grisome.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Yeah, Man, I met Barry Grissom when I got out
of prison. He wrote a letter to the prosecutor when
they try to retry me, and him being a former
prosecutor appointed by Obama, he had deep ties and connections
and he's seen an interest in how I wanted to
help people, and he kind of just got on the
wagon with me, and so let's go get these guys out.
(06:40):
So you know, I'll drapped up clemency and he'll polish
it up and we'll submit it. And it's been working
out and they've we've been successful with a few individuals.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
And he's just a tremendous advocate, a tremendous dude, and.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
You know, he sees he sees the benefit of people
being at a prison poor non violent cannabis fens. I
hope people can mimic that across America and hopefully I
can go to state to state and help these individuals
as well. But you know, working with him is amazing.
He's so intelligent. Like I said before, I'm a student.
I love to learn, and the more I learn, the
(07:14):
more I can help it. I learned so much from people.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Like him, So help me, help me out. And for
some of our listeners who might be just like me,
you know, you're using some terms, uh, and you know,
the way you talk about it is like a person
who's almost like a lawyer. And for those of us
who haven't been through let's say we haven't been through
the criminal justice system, and we're not familiar with the
(07:37):
criminal justice system in that way, give us, you know,
beginning to end, how do you get somebody out of
prison for a cannabis conviction? Like, what are how do
you find a person? What do you have to do?
You I mentioned, I heard you mentioned that you wrote
letters to people, but then what are they able to do?
You know? So talk us through kind of the process
(08:01):
in more general terms that we can follow.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Yeah, So what you can do is you can petition
the governor to commute the sentence of an individual that's
serving a harsh sentence.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
And how I kind of.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Took the reading and the literature of it is like
people that are serving years in prison for amounts of
marijuana that's really not a lot of amounts. It's pretty
wild man. So one thing that kind of look for is,
you know, what have you done in prison? Have you
completed classes? Do you have family support when you get home?
(08:36):
And ultimately, you know, how productive have you been in prison?
Not getting in trouble in different things like that. And
they want to protrove, they want to you want to
prove that extended incarceration of an individual will not protect
the state, whatever states you're incarcerated in, and you prove
to have by a variety of factors support letters for instant.
(09:00):
So I'll give an example of the person I got
out today, Deshaun Durham. It was really just boots on
the ground, you know, talking to legislators, and it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
A lot of people that are legislators don't really know
the laws pertaining the individual is serving a significant amount
of time. You know. People have a belief that people
aren't in prison from marijuana.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
You know, and then when you find these individuals, whether
it be through someone referring them to the Last Prisonerble
project or myself or learning the cases on the internet.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Man, you can google and tell you everything.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
So and then when you bet these cases, you want
to make sure that there's nothing tied to them that's crazy,
like crazy crime with it.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
You know, that's harming an individual.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
But if it's a non violent cannabis defense, those people
should be free, especially when people are making millions of dollars.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Out of it.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Sure, And I think that there's something else there too,
because it's it's it's a weird juxta position to grow
up in a world where marijuana costs communities so much
and then now it benefits other communities so much, and
(10:16):
so I want you to talk about the ways that
maybe historically the criminalization of marijuana has disproportionately negatively impacted
you know, black people and black communities, so that people
get an idea who, you know, maybe this isn't their world,
but they get an idea of how devastating that marijuana,
(10:38):
specifically marijuana charges in marijuana crimes. And I guess to
a larger extent, the war on drugs has been on
black and round people.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, you look at Harry Attenslinger, you look at the
jazz musicians, you look at the culture down in the South.
They use after slavery, they use cannabis toy incarcetrate people
at a mass level. You know, it was brought in
and individuals used it, you know, for medicinal purposes, and
people use it to incarcerators at a high level.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
If you read the Jim Crow Bookie, you read different
things like that, you'll notice that how much impacted people
that are black.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
So when you look at something like that, it's like wow,
you know, they portrayed the drug.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
They portrayed the cannabis.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Is a drug that makes people violent, makes people a raid,
makes people do stuff that's harming a community, and then
we look down twenty years from now.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
It's about to be twenty twenty five next year.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Now we look at as a central medicine and now
we're trying to reverse the harm on drugs. But the
crazy part about it is there's so many people in
prison from the nineties to early two thousands. I mean,
if you really think about it, with the cannabis industry
exist if it wasn't for the people out there, given
the product to certain individuals, I think a more safeer
regulator way to.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Do it, But there wouldn't be.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
There wouldn't be an industry without individuals there in the
legacy market trying to find a way.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
And then when these people get out of prison, how
can they find a job? You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Because some states will put it in there where you're
feeling you can't work in the industry, you know, and
it just puts a burden on people of flor And
then you look at all the owners. You know, people
that are owners are not even you know, majority ain't
even black, you know. And it's sad to say because
people people like should be able to reap the benefit
(12:26):
because we are the people that are impacted by the
Wall on drugs more than anything, especially in the South
Man where you guys from, Like I'm from California.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
You know, my antie had a cannabis plan on the
front horse. It was normal, you know.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
But if you travel down to the interstate and you
get down to you know, Louisiana, right. For instance, we
got a guy named Kevin Allen. He got caught with
small amounts of marijuana three times, and the audience who
researched Kevin Allen, he was serving a life sentence. You
know how I got involved in the case. They reduced
it down to you know, thirty something years. He's been
in prison twelve years, but we're talking about two joints.
(12:59):
Were talking about less than twenty dollars worth of cannabis.
But they use that right, and I think it's another
point for the audience to really understand. You may be
in Atlanta right where cannabis is more accepted and people
that look like you are in power and justice, but
if you drive down Georgia, you know, it might not
be a different in a different county, right, they may
(13:21):
view it way differently, you know, because if you look
at the laws, it's present to prison most of the time.
But then you get someone that's progressive might not think
about how it's just cannabis, but you go down like
for instance, in New Orleans and Louisiana, Right, they got
a fleet market of cannabis. But if you get caught
in both your springs where Kevin Allen was at, it's
(13:41):
considered like heroin and any other top drugs, right, But
they use that, right, they use that they I feel
like individuals that have a form of racism move to
different parts of the state to not deal with people
that are like us, right, meaning that people are stuck
in a way in a certain way, and they try
(14:03):
to protect accounting and their community, and you're literally you
could just be driving through and you get caught with
some and they feel like it's just an opportunity to
put someone's life away.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
One thing you can't get back is time.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
You know, time is the most important asset, and you
getting to the wrong place to try to take that
from you.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Then you miss memories with your family.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
So you look at something like this in the world
on drugs that has impacted people like us, and it
looks like me and you, I think it's just really
important us to educate yourself where you add it, you
choose to use and really understand that the United States
of America really united right now. So when you see
something like that, just pay attention because in an instance,
your liberty could be taken.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
We are here today with Dante West, exonerated cannabis prisoner
and advocacy associate for the Last Prisoner Project. All right,
so you know I'm listening to you talk about this,
and we've talked about how you know, these unjust laws
(15:05):
have been used and weaponized against you know, black and
brown people. But you know, these newer laws and these newer,
more relaxed regulations have served to benefit non black people
and takes that money instead of restoring the wrongs, the
(15:25):
historical wrongs, That money gets taken and lines the pockets
of people who are able to invest. I do remember
in Arizona, you know, my co host of the show,
and we were interviewing an individual who was pursuing a
(15:46):
license that they had delineated. First it was called social
equity license, if I'm not mistaken, and these were set
aside from the general licenses in the state, and they
were supposed to go to zip codes or communities whatever where. Historically,
the communities have been wronged and suffered tremendously under unjust
(16:10):
marijuana laws. And because you know, America be America. I
think that's kind of how you said it. Almost none
of those that had been set aside made their way
to the communities that needed them. You know, they're in
the zip code. But you know, you can set up
businesses and you know, shadow corporations and that sort of thing.
(16:30):
And the protections weren't strong enough, nor were the protesters
and the activists able to ensure that the protections were
written into the laws, are into the measures or whatever
was going on at the time. This was years ago,
But I want you to talk to us a little
bit more again, knowing cannabis law as well as you do,
(16:50):
discuss maybe some other ways that black people are getting
left out of the business side of the cannabis industry
now that it's legal, and maybe some ways that black
people can you know, uh, partake. You know, maybe there
are some ways that you know, and maybe there's some
(17:11):
success stories where there are some people who can you know,
get into the industry and make an honest go of it.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, I think it kind of starts with the legislators.
I mean they passed the laws.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
So vote local.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, you got to vote local.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Okay, you gotta.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
You gotta be in politics because they the one to
decide what municipality it goes in. They decide, you know,
there's criteria on you can't be by a school, you
can't be by a church, different things like that. But
you're right, you know, you look at Jersey, they did
a great job of just giving people an opportunity to
be on top of the list if they applied, if
they were a person of color, or in an impact
(17:51):
zone in different things like that. But you're right, they
do set them aside and it doesn't really work in
our favor. I think money is the root of all
people within this situation is because you look at different companies.
They spend millions of dollars, they lobby a city or
a state to make it legal. Who you think at
first it is is on it them and their people,
(18:13):
you know, and it's like for you to really make
a voice, you got to be up in there and
you got can't give up.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
You got to make sure your.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Paperwork is right, you know, have a good attorney and
just doing the things that are on a checklist to
create a business. Uh, we always had disadvantages while people
look like us. So how do you how do you
rise above the occasion. I don't think it's impossible, but
we always had a disadvantage. But once we get it,
we know what to do with it, you know. And
I think that's the more important thing than anything. And
(18:41):
people think you get a retail license, you automatically gonna
become rich, you know, until they do, say banking and
do two eighty e and different things like that. You know,
you either paying your employees or you're paying your taxes,
and by the time you pay both, you're not You're
not becoming no crazy, crazy rich person at that moment.
You know, it takes a while to get profitable payback investors.
(19:01):
Unless you got a tremendous amount of money, you can
fund it all yourself. But I think people should look
at cannabis as an opportunity to look around it. There's
so many ancillary things you could do in the cannabis industry.
You know, I would, I didn't have a chance to
make it. But you can go to MJ Bisco. People
are creating papers, people are creating machinery, people are creating
different items where imagine if you showed that and you
(19:23):
didn't touch a plant. There's so much money and not
touching a plant where you can be so successful. You
just got to do your research on it. I mean,
it's poss system, there's a different softwares. I mean, it
all depends like what are you talented at and how
you can use your talent in the industry. Right, people
think it's just selling weed or it's just owning a company,
But how about all the stuff that sold in the stores.
(19:46):
You know, grinders, they got rolling trades, they got pipes,
they got all these different things. Black people are so innovative.
Look at the culture we have. We make music, we
make movies, make we kind of set the standard when
it comes to doing so many cool.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
And creative things.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
And it's like, if you're going to apply that energy
to leave the street and do it the right way,
you know, and you ain't got to watch over your
back while once you put one hundred percent of energy
in that. I think that's what people can prevail at
if they can look outside the cannabis industry. And then
if your goal is still to have a retail store.
By the time you look up, you probably have enough
money to fund your own project, you know, do your
(20:25):
own lobbying, you know, because if you're connected and you
know how to speak, and you know how to present yourself,
I mean, who can say no, you got to go
in front of a city council to see if you
can be operational. You got you gotta do different things
like that to see how you can operate. And if
you can do that and you know, hustle up enough
(20:45):
money to put yourself in position to succeed. I think
it's all about consistency.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
You know.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
The more you consistent, the more you prevail, you know,
because if you're not consistent, you know, ain't no telling
what happened.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
I think that's one of the benefits of me and
beginning out of prison. I woke up every day thinking
about how I can get home.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I woke up every day, you know, wanting to read,
wanting to figure out a different way, you know, and
once you approach that, by the time you look up,
you didn't reach some success or you at least got
enough momentum to the point where you're gonna break through
a door. So I think it's just super important for
individuals when they look at the cannabis industry. They need
to look at it from all sides. When you become
a student, you want to study one subject, you study
(21:26):
all the subjects and see which one you do master, right,
So I think it's just very important for individuals to
do that, especially if they want to succeed in this industry.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Okay, that's a that's a fantastic answer. I don't think
I've heard anything that made me think outside of you know,
just kind of the typical cannabis retail business model before.
But I think you're absolutely right there there's tremendous opportunities.
So the only thing that really could stand in our
way besides systemic oppression is us. So yeah, so let's
(21:58):
switch back. Let's switch back, because I know that the
work that you do is really with the incarcerated the imprisoned,
and obviously it's it's very admirable work, and you're well
positioned to do that work. But let's say that there's
individuals listening to the show and they're just living their lives,
(22:20):
but they listen to our conversation today and they say,
you know what, this is something that's important. This is
a way that I can impact, you know, my community,
make some some serious contributions, you know on behalf of
my People, et cetera. What are some things that individuals
can do to support imprisoned people who are who are
in there for cannabis offenses in their own communities.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Yeah, I think they just got to pay attention to Hey,
vote too. I think it is really important. But if
you want to help some individually, you know, going to
last prison or Project dot org and write them a letter.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
You know.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
One of the most important things to me when I
was in prison, especially being locked up and said to way,
was receiving a letter, you know, open up a letter
it trying to escape you from from prison.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Gates, you know, and doing things like that, you know,
sharing a story.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
It don't really always got to be about money when
people got a platform like you guys or whoever got
a platform.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
You know, you share a story. You don't know who
can see it.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
You don't know what politician or judge you may know,
or who you're connected to.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
The word of mouth is power. You know.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
How they free the slaves is do a letter, you know.
So it's just like when you do different things like that,
you know you can't you can't lose or something like that,
and it makes people feel real comfortable, you know, doing
something like that.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
I think, you know, that's the most powerful thing.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
You know, tell someone about someone you know that's locked
up for cannabis, you know, don't leave their story behind, because.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Once you get behind the walls, you become a number.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
You ain't got no voice, you know, so how could
you be a voice when you free for the people
that's locked behind the gates? You know, That's kind of
how I look at it. You know, people think it's
just all about donations or oh we need X amount,
But you know, the most success I had with just
networking and telling the story and making sure my presentation
is on point.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Because if my presentation on point and I can get it,
I can get it out without.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
You know, wasting so much words are just getting to
the point of why this person should be free.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
It works out for the best.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
So I just think people could, more than anything, can
just research what they putting in office, and if they
want to help someone individually, just write them a letter,
you know, write them a letter, show them that you
love them.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
And if you find a story and you don't know
them and you don't want to write them a letter
to share their story because it's powering our people.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Absolutely well. I think that what you're doing is fantastic work. Obviously,
I know a handful of people that are, you know,
working to bring about some some justice in this particular field.
But the fact that you're going in and grabbing, you know,
(24:54):
the folks that it's really easy to forget about and
bringing them home, that that's beyond special. Do us a
favor before we let you go, uh, talk to us
about how we can kind of support you keep up
with what you're doing. If you have any website, social media,
anything like that, let's make sure that we know how
to how to follow your story.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Yeah, just at D O N T E W E
S T. You know that's on Instagram and uh yeah,
just DM a prisoner and just DM some information if
you know anybody that's locked up. I know this station
is all over and you guys are in the South,
so I know so many people that's locked up in prison.
So yeah, just send them away and I'm ready to
(25:39):
help you know more than anything. But yeah, super exciting.
I'm thankful letting me get on this show. And uh yeah,
I'm signing for the next opportunity with you guys.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, we just we just followed you here,
so we're gonna keep up with you, stay in contact,
and then you know, as much as we can do
to support you, we will.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
And I would like to make sure that I return
that energy. Thank you for not only for what you do,
but taking the time out of your schedule, you know,
actually freeing people to you know, let us know what
needs to be done and how you're going about doing it,
because I think both of those things are critically important.
(26:18):
You're it's it's it's it's really energizing to know that
there are people out there doing good work. And it's
it's something that oftentimes on this show we have to
discuss more traumatic things. This is something that is a
little bit more optimistic, and so I want to thank
you again for coming on and sharing your time and
(26:41):
your insight once again. Today's guest is Dante West, exonerated
cannabis prisoner and advocacy associate for the Last Prisoner Project.
This has been a production of the Black Information Network.
Today's show was produced by Chris Thompson and co produced
by q War. Have some thoughts you'd like to share,
use the red microphone talkback feature on the iHeartRadio app.
(27:03):
While you're there, be sure to hit subscribe and download
all of our episodes I Am Your Host, Ramse's Jaw
on all social media, and join us tomorrow as we
share our news with our voice from our perspective right
here on the Black Information Network Daily Podcast
The Last Prisoner Project was founded in twenty nineteen out
of the belief that no one should remain incarcerated or
suffering the collateral consequences of offenses that are now legal.
They brought together a group of justice impacted individuals, policy
and education experts, and leaders in the worlds of criminal
justice and drug policy reform to work to end the
fundamental injustice that is America's policy of cannabis prohibition and
(00:24):
the war on drugs. Their dedicated team works tirelessly to
achieve the goal of freeing the tens of thousands of
individuals still unjustly imprisoned and creating front end systemic reform
to the criminal legal system. Dante West is the two thousand,
seven hundred and seventy ninth exonerated person in the United States,
according to the University of Michigan Law School. After serving
(00:46):
three years of an eight year sentence for a pound
of marijuana, he prevailed on his pro say motion and
his prison sentence was vacated, plus his conviction was overturned.
In twenty twenty one, he was hired at the Last
Prisoner per Project to help release cannabis prisoners across the
United States and he is our guest today. This is
(01:08):
the Black Information Network Daily Podcast, and I am your host,
Ramsy's job. All right, Dante West, Welcome to the show man.
We've been looking forward to this conversation. How you doing today.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Thank you for having me, man. I'm doing so well.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Got a prisoner out today, actually, and the feeling is
just a feeling I can't describe.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Oh well, do your best describe its Help us know
what that feels like.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Wrote down there at four thirty in the morning to
just in correctional facility. We're free to guy named Dishawn
Durham was serving nearly an eight year sentence. We got
him out in almost three years. And it's just a feeling.
It's a rare occurrence. People do not receive clemency. But
for him to get his sentence commuted by the governor
after the prison review board denied him of getting clemency,
(01:54):
it just says a lot about the state of Kansas,
because if the audience doesn't know, the state of Kansas
doesn't have no form of legalization whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Okay, okay, yeah, that's got to feel really good, all right,
So I definitely want to get to, you know, the
work that you're doing now, but do us a favor
fill in some of the gaps. We talked a little
bit about you being as HONERATD but talk to us
a bit about your background. You know where you grew up,
you know what what set you on this path and
then ultimately what led you to the conversation we're about
(02:25):
to have today.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah, man, just grew up in Stockton, California, been there
all my life.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Took a road trip to Kansas.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Eventually got went to prison for pound in marijuana, which
was you know, crazy, went to jerry trial, ended up
getting found guilty for the pound in marijuana and got
sentced nearly eight years.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Kind of with drove. My motivation was.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Was the sole provider of my two younger brothers, which
were eight nine years old at the time, and seeing
these lifers fight for their cases, and I felt like
I did the.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Same, you know, I could potentially prevail.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
And I ended up, you know, writing a motion trying
to get home back to prison, and I mean trying
to get back home out of prison, and went ahead
and also just kind of filed from my clemency, got
support of the wonderful mayor of La Karen Bass also
a former congress woman, and my hopes were up and
eventually prevailed on this motion, ended up getting out of prison,
(03:24):
getting exonerated in twenty twenty one after.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
They tried to retry the case. And I kind of
opened my.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Eyes while being in prison because I noticed that so
many people were locked up for cannabis while I was
in there, and somewhere first time offenders, but somewhere habitual offenders,
you know, getting caught a couple of times with cannabis
in the state and made me realize, like these people
are serving more time than somebody that, you know, kind
of committed manslaughter. So out of clemency exists. It existed
(03:54):
with someone like me, Rode one hundred and twenty five
state representatives, Rode forty senators, one state reperence that came
see me named Willie Duve and said he would do
everything he can to get me out, and I eventually
just prevailed on my pro se motion with the help
of the point of Attorney Chris Biggs, and I got out,
and I just had a fire under my belt just
(04:16):
to see who else I can help get out and
been successful doing that.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
With the Nonprofitized Prisoner Project, my focus.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Is anybody in the Midwest or the Southern states. I
take the lead on it, and I kind of got
an unorthodox approach. But man, it's just like as states
become legal and then you look at the sentencing guidelines,
they really outdated.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
So when you look at the.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Outdate of sentencing guidelines and we see people and companies
and wealthy individuals want to open up dispensaries across the state,
what about the people that's locked up? You know, the
greatest kid you can give anybody is freedom, but sometimes
they put the money before that. And also you save
money by incarcerated person. In Kansas, for instance, is thirty
thousand dollars a year to even incarcerate somebody. So when
(05:03):
you look at something like that, can that money be
better use elsewhere? So I look at stuff like that
and it made me realize that there's a lot.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
More work to be done.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
So you went to law school, No, I.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Didn't technically go to law school.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
I'm doing this stuff in California to become a lawyer.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Okay, that's what I was.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
But I did go to Rutgers Law School, did cannabis
law and business.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Okay, then that's what I got it.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Yeah, so I did a little bit of that, but
just continue to educate myself, which is important.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Man.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
I don't want to be one signed approach on helping people.
I want to be versatile as possible. So that's what
drives me is to continue to be in the student
and I act like I know it all, and as
I learn more, I can help more.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yeah. Yeah, So I can see that your commitment goes
beyond just you know, let me see what I can do,
but let me see who I can become that I
can do even more. And I think that that's part
of what was so compelling when we had our you
know meeting prior to you know, approving this, uh, this conversation,
(06:10):
that was the part that was the most compelling. So
talk to us a little bit about your work alongside
a former US attorney for Kansas, very grisome.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Yeah, Man, I met Barry Grissom when I got out
of prison. He wrote a letter to the prosecutor when
they try to retry me, and him being a former
prosecutor appointed by Obama, he had deep ties and connections
and he's seen an interest in how I wanted to
help people, and he kind of just got on the
wagon with me, and so let's go get these guys out.
(06:40):
So you know, I'll drapped up clemency and he'll polish
it up and we'll submit it. And it's been working
out and they've we've been successful with a few individuals.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
And he's just a tremendous advocate, a tremendous dude, and.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
You know, he sees he sees the benefit of people
being at a prison poor non violent cannabis fens. I
hope people can mimic that across America and hopefully I
can go to state to state and help these individuals
as well. But you know, working with him is amazing.
He's so intelligent. Like I said before, I'm a student.
I love to learn, and the more I learn, the
(07:14):
more I can help it. I learned so much from people.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Like him, So help me, help me out. And for
some of our listeners who might be just like me,
you know, you're using some terms, uh, and you know,
the way you talk about it is like a person
who's almost like a lawyer. And for those of us
who haven't been through let's say we haven't been through
the criminal justice system, and we're not familiar with the
(07:37):
criminal justice system in that way, give us, you know,
beginning to end, how do you get somebody out of
prison for a cannabis conviction? Like, what are how do
you find a person? What do you have to do?
You I mentioned, I heard you mentioned that you wrote
letters to people, but then what are they able to do?
You know? So talk us through kind of the process
(08:01):
in more general terms that we can follow.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Yeah, So what you can do is you can petition
the governor to commute the sentence of an individual that's
serving a harsh sentence.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
And how I kind of.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Took the reading and the literature of it is like
people that are serving years in prison for amounts of
marijuana that's really not a lot of amounts. It's pretty
wild man. So one thing that kind of look for is,
you know, what have you done in prison? Have you
completed classes? Do you have family support when you get home?
(08:36):
And ultimately, you know, how productive have you been in prison?
Not getting in trouble in different things like that. And
they want to protrove, they want to you want to
prove that extended incarceration of an individual will not protect
the state, whatever states you're incarcerated in, and you prove
to have by a variety of factors support letters for instant.
(09:00):
So I'll give an example of the person I got
out today, Deshaun Durham. It was really just boots on
the ground, you know, talking to legislators, and it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
A lot of people that are legislators don't really know
the laws pertaining the individual is serving a significant amount
of time. You know. People have a belief that people
aren't in prison from marijuana.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
You know, and then when you find these individuals, whether
it be through someone referring them to the Last Prisonerble
project or myself or learning the cases on the internet.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Man, you can google and tell you everything.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
So and then when you bet these cases, you want
to make sure that there's nothing tied to them that's crazy,
like crazy crime with it.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
You know, that's harming an individual.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
But if it's a non violent cannabis defense, those people
should be free, especially when people are making millions of dollars.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Out of it.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Sure, And I think that there's something else there too,
because it's it's it's a weird juxta position to grow
up in a world where marijuana costs communities so much
and then now it benefits other communities so much, and
(10:16):
so I want you to talk about the ways that
maybe historically the criminalization of marijuana has disproportionately negatively impacted
you know, black people and black communities, so that people
get an idea who, you know, maybe this isn't their world,
but they get an idea of how devastating that marijuana,
(10:38):
specifically marijuana charges in marijuana crimes. And I guess to
a larger extent, the war on drugs has been on
black and round people.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, you look at Harry Attenslinger, you look at the
jazz musicians, you look at the culture down in the South.
They use after slavery, they use cannabis toy incarcetrate people
at a mass level. You know, it was brought in
and individuals used it, you know, for medicinal purposes, and
people use it to incarcerators at a high level.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
If you read the Jim Crow Bookie, you read different
things like that, you'll notice that how much impacted people
that are black.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
So when you look at something like that, it's like wow,
you know, they portrayed the drug.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
They portrayed the cannabis.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Is a drug that makes people violent, makes people a raid,
makes people do stuff that's harming a community, and then
we look down twenty years from now.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
It's about to be twenty twenty five next year.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Now we look at as a central medicine and now
we're trying to reverse the harm on drugs. But the
crazy part about it is there's so many people in
prison from the nineties to early two thousands. I mean,
if you really think about it, with the cannabis industry
exist if it wasn't for the people out there, given
the product to certain individuals, I think a more safeer
regulator way to.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Do it, But there wouldn't be.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
There wouldn't be an industry without individuals there in the
legacy market trying to find a way.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
And then when these people get out of prison, how
can they find a job? You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Because some states will put it in there where you're
feeling you can't work in the industry, you know, and
it just puts a burden on people of flor And
then you look at all the owners. You know, people
that are owners are not even you know, majority ain't
even black, you know. And it's sad to say because
people people like should be able to reap the benefit
(12:26):
because we are the people that are impacted by the
Wall on drugs more than anything, especially in the South
Man where you guys from, Like I'm from California.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
You know, my antie had a cannabis plan on the
front horse. It was normal, you know.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
But if you travel down to the interstate and you
get down to you know, Louisiana, right. For instance, we
got a guy named Kevin Allen. He got caught with
small amounts of marijuana three times, and the audience who
researched Kevin Allen, he was serving a life sentence. You
know how I got involved in the case. They reduced
it down to you know, thirty something years. He's been
in prison twelve years, but we're talking about two joints.
(12:59):
Were talking about less than twenty dollars worth of cannabis.
But they use that right, and I think it's another
point for the audience to really understand. You may be
in Atlanta right where cannabis is more accepted and people
that look like you are in power and justice, but
if you drive down Georgia, you know, it might not
be a different in a different county, right, they may
(13:21):
view it way differently, you know, because if you look
at the laws, it's present to prison most of the time.
But then you get someone that's progressive might not think
about how it's just cannabis, but you go down like
for instance, in New Orleans and Louisiana, Right, they got
a fleet market of cannabis. But if you get caught
in both your springs where Kevin Allen was at, it's
(13:41):
considered like heroin and any other top drugs, right, But
they use that, right, they use that they I feel
like individuals that have a form of racism move to
different parts of the state to not deal with people
that are like us, right, meaning that people are stuck
in a way in a certain way, and they try
(14:03):
to protect accounting and their community, and you're literally you
could just be driving through and you get caught with
some and they feel like it's just an opportunity to
put someone's life away.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
One thing you can't get back is time.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
You know, time is the most important asset, and you
getting to the wrong place to try to take that
from you.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Then you miss memories with your family.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
So you look at something like this in the world
on drugs that has impacted people like us, and it
looks like me and you, I think it's just really
important us to educate yourself where you add it, you
choose to use and really understand that the United States
of America really united right now. So when you see
something like that, just pay attention because in an instance,
your liberty could be taken.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
We are here today with Dante West, exonerated cannabis prisoner
and advocacy associate for the Last Prisoner Project. All right,
so you know I'm listening to you talk about this,
and we've talked about how you know, these unjust laws
(15:05):
have been used and weaponized against you know, black and
brown people. But you know, these newer laws and these newer,
more relaxed regulations have served to benefit non black people
and takes that money instead of restoring the wrongs, the
(15:25):
historical wrongs, That money gets taken and lines the pockets
of people who are able to invest. I do remember
in Arizona, you know, my co host of the show,
and we were interviewing an individual who was pursuing a
(15:46):
license that they had delineated. First it was called social
equity license, if I'm not mistaken, and these were set
aside from the general licenses in the state, and they
were supposed to go to zip codes or communities whatever where. Historically,
the communities have been wronged and suffered tremendously under unjust
(16:10):
marijuana laws. And because you know, America be America. I
think that's kind of how you said it. Almost none
of those that had been set aside made their way
to the communities that needed them. You know, they're in
the zip code. But you know, you can set up
businesses and you know, shadow corporations and that sort of thing.
(16:30):
And the protections weren't strong enough, nor were the protesters
and the activists able to ensure that the protections were
written into the laws, are into the measures or whatever
was going on at the time. This was years ago,
But I want you to talk to us a little
bit more again, knowing cannabis law as well as you do,
(16:50):
discuss maybe some other ways that black people are getting
left out of the business side of the cannabis industry
now that it's legal, and maybe some ways that black
people can you know, uh, partake. You know, maybe there
are some ways that you know, and maybe there's some
(17:11):
success stories where there are some people who can you know,
get into the industry and make an honest go of it.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, I think it kind of starts with the legislators.
I mean they passed the laws.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
So vote local.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, you got to vote local.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Okay, you gotta.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
You gotta be in politics because they the one to
decide what municipality it goes in. They decide, you know,
there's criteria on you can't be by a school, you
can't be by a church, different things like that. But
you're right, you know, you look at Jersey, they did
a great job of just giving people an opportunity to
be on top of the list if they applied, if
they were a person of color, or in an impact
(17:51):
zone in different things like that. But you're right, they
do set them aside and it doesn't really work in
our favor. I think money is the root of all
people within this situation is because you look at different companies.
They spend millions of dollars, they lobby a city or
a state to make it legal. Who you think at
first it is is on it them and their people,
(18:13):
you know, and it's like for you to really make
a voice, you got to be up in there and
you got can't give up.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
You got to make sure your.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Paperwork is right, you know, have a good attorney and
just doing the things that are on a checklist to
create a business. Uh, we always had disadvantages while people
look like us. So how do you how do you
rise above the occasion. I don't think it's impossible, but
we always had a disadvantage. But once we get it,
we know what to do with it, you know. And
I think that's the more important thing than anything. And
(18:41):
people think you get a retail license, you automatically gonna
become rich, you know, until they do, say banking and
do two eighty e and different things like that. You know,
you either paying your employees or you're paying your taxes,
and by the time you pay both, you're not You're
not becoming no crazy, crazy rich person at that moment.
You know, it takes a while to get profitable payback investors.
(19:01):
Unless you got a tremendous amount of money, you can
fund it all yourself. But I think people should look
at cannabis as an opportunity to look around it. There's
so many ancillary things you could do in the cannabis industry.
You know, I would, I didn't have a chance to
make it. But you can go to MJ Bisco. People
are creating papers, people are creating machinery, people are creating
different items where imagine if you showed that and you
(19:23):
didn't touch a plant. There's so much money and not
touching a plant where you can be so successful. You
just got to do your research on it. I mean,
it's poss system, there's a different softwares. I mean, it
all depends like what are you talented at and how
you can use your talent in the industry. Right, people
think it's just selling weed or it's just owning a company,
But how about all the stuff that sold in the stores.
(19:46):
You know, grinders, they got rolling trades, they got pipes,
they got all these different things. Black people are so innovative.
Look at the culture we have. We make music, we
make movies, make we kind of set the standard when
it comes to doing so many cool.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
And creative things.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
And it's like, if you're going to apply that energy
to leave the street and do it the right way,
you know, and you ain't got to watch over your
back while once you put one hundred percent of energy
in that. I think that's what people can prevail at
if they can look outside the cannabis industry. And then
if your goal is still to have a retail store.
By the time you look up, you probably have enough
money to fund your own project, you know, do your
(20:25):
own lobbying, you know, because if you're connected and you
know how to speak, and you know how to present yourself,
I mean, who can say no, you got to go
in front of a city council to see if you
can be operational. You got you gotta do different things
like that to see how you can operate. And if
you can do that and you know, hustle up enough
(20:45):
money to put yourself in position to succeed. I think
it's all about consistency.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
You know.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
The more you consistent, the more you prevail, you know,
because if you're not consistent, you know, ain't no telling
what happened.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
I think that's one of the benefits of me and
beginning out of prison. I woke up every day thinking
about how I can get home.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I woke up every day, you know, wanting to read,
wanting to figure out a different way, you know, and
once you approach that, by the time you look up,
you didn't reach some success or you at least got
enough momentum to the point where you're gonna break through
a door. So I think it's just super important for
individuals when they look at the cannabis industry. They need
to look at it from all sides. When you become
a student, you want to study one subject, you study
(21:26):
all the subjects and see which one you do master, right,
So I think it's just very important for individuals to
do that, especially if they want to succeed in this industry.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Okay, that's a that's a fantastic answer. I don't think
I've heard anything that made me think outside of you know,
just kind of the typical cannabis retail business model before.
But I think you're absolutely right there there's tremendous opportunities.
So the only thing that really could stand in our
way besides systemic oppression is us. So yeah, so let's
(21:58):
switch back. Let's switch back, because I know that the
work that you do is really with the incarcerated the imprisoned,
and obviously it's it's very admirable work, and you're well
positioned to do that work. But let's say that there's
individuals listening to the show and they're just living their lives,
(22:20):
but they listen to our conversation today and they say,
you know what, this is something that's important. This is
a way that I can impact, you know, my community,
make some some serious contributions, you know on behalf of
my People, et cetera. What are some things that individuals
can do to support imprisoned people who are who are
in there for cannabis offenses in their own communities.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Yeah, I think they just got to pay attention to Hey,
vote too. I think it is really important. But if
you want to help some individually, you know, going to
last prison or Project dot org and write them a letter.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
You know.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
One of the most important things to me when I
was in prison, especially being locked up and said to way,
was receiving a letter, you know, open up a letter
it trying to escape you from from prison.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Gates, you know, and doing things like that, you know,
sharing a story.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
It don't really always got to be about money when
people got a platform like you guys or whoever got
a platform.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
You know, you share a story. You don't know who
can see it.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
You don't know what politician or judge you may know,
or who you're connected to.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
The word of mouth is power. You know.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
How they free the slaves is do a letter, you know.
So it's just like when you do different things like that,
you know you can't you can't lose or something like that,
and it makes people feel real comfortable, you know, doing
something like that.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
I think, you know, that's the most powerful thing.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
You know, tell someone about someone you know that's locked
up for cannabis, you know, don't leave their story behind, because.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Once you get behind the walls, you become a number.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
You ain't got no voice, you know, so how could
you be a voice when you free for the people
that's locked behind the gates? You know, That's kind of
how I look at it. You know, people think it's
just all about donations or oh we need X amount,
But you know, the most success I had with just
networking and telling the story and making sure my presentation
is on point.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Because if my presentation on point and I can get it,
I can get it out without.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
You know, wasting so much words are just getting to
the point of why this person should be free.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
It works out for the best.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
So I just think people could, more than anything, can
just research what they putting in office, and if they
want to help someone individually, just write them a letter,
you know, write them a letter, show them that you
love them.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
And if you find a story and you don't know
them and you don't want to write them a letter
to share their story because it's powering our people.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Absolutely well. I think that what you're doing is fantastic work. Obviously,
I know a handful of people that are, you know,
working to bring about some some justice in this particular field.
But the fact that you're going in and grabbing, you know,
(24:54):
the folks that it's really easy to forget about and
bringing them home, that that's beyond special. Do us a
favor before we let you go, uh, talk to us
about how we can kind of support you keep up
with what you're doing. If you have any website, social media,
anything like that, let's make sure that we know how
to how to follow your story.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Yeah, just at D O N T E W E
S T. You know that's on Instagram and uh yeah,
just DM a prisoner and just DM some information if
you know anybody that's locked up. I know this station
is all over and you guys are in the South,
so I know so many people that's locked up in prison.
So yeah, just send them away and I'm ready to
(25:39):
help you know more than anything. But yeah, super exciting.
I'm thankful letting me get on this show. And uh yeah,
I'm signing for the next opportunity with you guys.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, we just we just followed you here,
so we're gonna keep up with you, stay in contact,
and then you know, as much as we can do
to support you, we will.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
And I would like to make sure that I return
that energy. Thank you for not only for what you do,
but taking the time out of your schedule, you know,
actually freeing people to you know, let us know what
needs to be done and how you're going about doing it,
because I think both of those things are critically important.
(26:18):
You're it's it's it's it's really energizing to know that
there are people out there doing good work. And it's
it's something that oftentimes on this show we have to
discuss more traumatic things. This is something that is a
little bit more optimistic, and so I want to thank
you again for coming on and sharing your time and
(26:41):
your insight once again. Today's guest is Dante West, exonerated
cannabis prisoner and advocacy associate for the Last Prisoner Project.
This has been a production of the Black Information Network.
Today's show was produced by Chris Thompson and co produced
by q War. Have some thoughts you'd like to share,
use the red microphone talkback feature on the iHeartRadio app.
(27:03):
While you're there, be sure to hit subscribe and download
all of our episodes I Am Your Host, Ramse's Jaw
on all social media, and join us tomorrow as we
share our news with our voice from our perspective right
here on the Black Information Network Daily Podcast
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