Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Sometimes we're just as shocked or moved or energized by
the news we cover as anyone would be, but by
the time we share it, our initial reaction has settled
a bit. Good for these stories, we want you to
learn about the news at the same time, we do.
Welcome to another installment of And.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
You Don't Know Not You Know? Ramsey. Did you hear
about the eleven year old girl that got handcuffed in
New York?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
No, this is the first I'm hearing of it.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
All right, let me tell you a little bit more
stories from the Black Information Network. The headline eleven year
old black girl handcuffed by cops who mistook her for
an alleged thief. An eleven year old black girl was
handcuffed by New York deputies while walking home from school
(01:00):
in a case of mistaken identity on Monday, January thirteenth.
The eleven year old girl was walking home from school
with a group of her friends when they encountered on
Indaga County Sheriff's deputies. Deputies put the eleven year old
girl in handcuffs, saying that she matched the description of
a person who allegedly stole a Kia and fled a
(01:23):
traffic stop a car, saying that she matched the description
of a person who allegedly stole a Kia and fled
a traffic stop. Authorities told the girl that the pink
jacket and cameo pants that she was wearing matched the
alleged car thief. At the beginning, you may have heard
(01:45):
me say, eleven year old. The other children recorded the
incident and repeatedly told deputies that they had the wrong person. However,
the deputies insisted they were lying. Girl. You're gonna tell
me this, ain't you, one deputy said to the handcuff girl,
after showing the group a photo of the actual suspect.
(02:09):
More deputies responded to the scene and eventually realized the
eleven year old wasn't their suspect. Duh, the handcuff girl cried,
as deputies apologized for their mistake. I'm sorry about it,
but you matched the description pretty clearly, one deputy said.
(02:31):
I have a lot i'd like to say, but i'd
rather hear your response.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Okay, So yeah, I think that threw me for a loop.
I was thinking that this was like a like a
shoplifting or I think that it was going to be
like a shoplifting thing or something like that. I didn't
realize it was a car, And now I get why
this is a whole thing. I mean, I would have gotten.
You know, there's never a reason to put an eleven
year old in a handcuffs period, you know what I mean.
But like mistaking someone for a karthie who's eleven, feels
(03:03):
you have to suspend like basic human intelligence and be
fueled purely by racism and hatred in order to execute
something like that in the real world, like you have to,
like again, suspend logic in order to arrive. You know,
(03:26):
I have a ten year old, right, and perhaps there's
a lot of growth that can take place between age
ten and eleven. I love the grace that but where
you're shown, sure, but where I am is you know,
I have a ten year old. He's a good way
on his way to being eleven, indeed, and he looks
(03:48):
nothing like a person even remotely close to being capable
of even operating a vehicle, much less getting into one,
starting it, or acquiring it from someone else, you know,
any of that sort of stuff. Right, So I could
look at a person who's just his size, and you know,
(04:10):
developmentally where he is because you know, you can tell
the difference between a person who's just really tiny and
a child. You know, they're still not fully developed, they
don't have facial hair, you know whatever. Right in the
case of my son, he visibly looks like he's ten
years old. I could just look at him and say,
there's no way that this tiny being is capable of
(04:33):
doing that, and then I would continue my investigation, especially
if I was a police officer and that was my job,
you know, And people make these assumptions all the time.
You know, there's people, you know, Q, you and I
can go to restaurants and if we so chose, neither
(04:54):
of us have ever drank alcohol, but if we so chose,
we could order a glass of wine. And there are
people who they might cart us just to make sure
that we're old enough. Right, But if either of our
mothers or fathers went into those same restaurants, they likely
would not be carted, because people are allowed to make
judgments based on appearances. But again, you have to suspend
(05:17):
your like logic and reason in order to handcuff an
eleven year old girl for something like this. And now
one more thing I want to add here. The last
thing I'll say about this, that excuse of fitting this
subscriptions the description of a suspicious character, or fitting the
(05:38):
description of a suspect. It has been used against me
on more than one occasion, you know, And I've shared
many stories with you, and I'm not sure if I've
ever shared this one. But one time I remember I
was out there's where we live in Arizona. There's a
(05:59):
city called tim where Arizona State University is. And in
Tempe there's like an entertainment district. It's called Mill Avenue,
and Mill Avenue is where people would go and hang
out on Friday night Saturday night. It's just a little college,
little strip with little bars and.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Well maybe it was a little strip when you attended
Arizona State. Well relative to Vegas, it's little.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Yeah, No, I know it's it's always been big, But
I'm relative to like, you know, people nationally, they might
be comparing it to like South Beach or wherever. But
here in Phoenix it's a big deal. Or in the
adjacent city and Tempe. In any event, this is where
we used to hang out on the weekends. And I
remember I was out there and I was fresh. I
(06:43):
had a yellow aver Rex sweater right, and it was
like white at the top and it faded to yellow
and then I had some yellow aver Rex sweatpants. You
was killed with the headband and I had my hair braided.
You was killing, had the had the wristband all yellow.
I was yellow to the flood. Looked like little bow.
(07:04):
I was outside. I was I looked like B two K.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Was yanking. I had it out.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Anyway. I remember I was with some friends and uh,
you know, this is where we used to go and
hang out and try to meet you know, at the time.
You know, you meet who you meet. Yeah, understand, Yeah,
that was There's a reason.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I was fresh.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
I was trying to you know, trying to make new friends. Anyway.
I remember one of the most embarrassing moments of my
life is a police officer came up to me and,
uh like singled me out. And these police are on horses.
Arizona's weird. It's like that police is be on horse horseback.
(07:53):
Police officers came up to two of them and like
you you right there, you stay freeze, stay stand still,
and they're yelling at me off these giant horses, and
I'm like, yo, what's going on? What's going on? And
they're like, you just flashed a gun in a night
in one of the clubs, in the nightclub, and I
was like a gun, you know, and you know, I
(08:16):
don't know if you know, but like when you're wearing sweatpants,
they got the little elastic so you can't you can't
even keep your wallet in there. You can't even keep it,
you know, a t mobile side kick in there without
it making your pants sag, you know, too far. So
I'm like, the like the clothes a gun? Are you really?
But I'm like, I'm too afraid. And then all of
(08:38):
all the people that I was kind of hanging out
with they scattered because you know, it was like very intimidating.
And that's that's a tactic. Police are supposed to do
that so that they can establish dominance or whatever. Right,
not not picking that apart, but I was just there
by myself, and when they started talking about a gun,
I'm like, oh my god, they think I might have
a gun. Of course I don't. I hadn't even been
(09:00):
in any clubs, you know, And I was just there, like.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
You've listened to us before, Ramsas is the most anti gun.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah, I'm not a gun not ever lived. I think,
I think while we're here, I think that the only
purpose of a gun is to end the life. And
I don't think that's why I.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Think that's true. It's not. Again, this is not your opinion.
I don't even want you to marginalize it as to
just being your opinion. That's what they're created for.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
That's it, and I just don't I don't think that
that's the purpose of that is. That is not the
nature of the deployment of this being. In the spirit
that inhabits this being is not to end the life.
If anything, I want to bring happiness and positivity to
the world. But I just don't see that as my destiny.
So guns don't make sense to me. But anyway, they
(09:46):
thought I had a gun, which, as you know, immediately
puts the fear of God in your body because if
they think that you can cause harm to them, they
are justified in cause harm to you, even if they
just thought it. And it's especially true if they're police.
Is you're black and you're black. Generally speaking, they could
(10:09):
just be some white folks that got scared. But if
they're police, there and they get the most support, right,
So immediately, I'm terrified, and uh, you know, they had,
you know, some more officers come up on bicycles. They
had the like Cannondale bicycles, you know, because it's that
type of entertainment. Disrecover and walks around, so they get
around a little bit more easily on bikes and horseback.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I suppose.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
They they get me and they start checking me, and
it's really easy to check me because I'm wearing just
like loose fabric. It's Arizona, so it's not freezing cold.
It's just I just look fly, you know what I'm saying.
And the clothes are like kind of loose fitting, so
it's easy to tell this is just a human body.
There's no hardware anywhere in here. I have a phone,
I have a wallet and my keys, but outside of that,
(10:55):
I have nothing. And it wasn't until after the fact
that they said, well, the description came through that the
person that they were looking for was a white male
wearing a yellow shirt. Right now, remember my shirt was
white at the top and it shifted.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
It to yellow. I don't even like that you just
said that.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
But but I'm just I want to I so I'm black.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
So everybody can't see my face. I get annoyed when
Ramses does this benefit of the doubt.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Thing for people, you know, sometimes starting.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
That with my shirt was white again provides bail to
the obvious fact that you're not right.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Oh no, no, that's where I was going. So you know,
allow me to continue. I'm black. My shirt is white.
The bottom portion of it that kind of overlaps where
my pants are, my hips are, that part is finally yellow,
just because it's a transition shirt, and you know, I
have a headband, braids. It was a very black hairstyle.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Very obviously not a white man with a yellow shirt. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
And all of this commotion and all of this fear
and this, you know, for all intents and purposes, they
did arrest me. They restricted my movements, they had me
held up. I'm up against the wall. They're patting me down. Meanwhile,
this is so embarrassing. It's so embarrassing, you know, and
I'm talking to this is the black information that were
(12:23):
so most of the people that listen to this show
understand this either because they've been through it, they know
someone who's been through it. But you know, for those
of you who have been through it, like me. You
know what that feeling feels like, where you're like, oh, man,
to all these people that don't know the story behind
this moment, I look like a criminal and the police
look like heroes. They got another one, and I'm the
(12:44):
face of this moment that lives in those white people's
minds for the rest of their lives. How embarrassing, how
bad I've let my people down and I didn't even
do anything wrong, But here I am in this position.
It's the same feeling when the police pull you out
of your car and handcuff you and sit you on
the curb, and everybody drives by and they see you
sitting on the side of the road, and the people
(13:06):
that drive by see you and they think, aha, the
police must have got them for doing moving drugs or
doing something whatever, and you're just they're actively reinforcing every
stereotype that exists in everybody's mind, even though you haven't
done anything wrong. Right, And so in this particular instance, this,
(13:28):
you know, which is one of many stories that have
happened in my life where they've just happened to be
able to detain me because they could somehow make some
sort of wildly loose justification of associating me with someone
who does not even remotely resemble me. But they can
(13:48):
say they can draw some connective tissue, you know what
I mean. We call it being black and nearby.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
In your story, there was a description that you didn't fit.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Oh, they ignore the most obvious part of the description
to detain me and embarrass me.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Imagine how much more embarrassing it had been if they
showed you a picture of the person of the white
man with the yellow shirt. That's the girls, and that's
what this little girl went through. You're gonna tell me this,
not you. This officer is showing her a picture of
another person.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Like I was in school. They're telling you.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
You have a photo of another person, showing this person
who's not that person, demanding that they tell you that
they're not the person in the photo, that they're clearly not.
Now we have the privilege of looking at the photos
in the studio they described the same. So if it
was just a description, I would hate it for her.
(14:46):
I would hate it for her that these white cops
handcuffed an eleven year old. I would hate it for her.
But the description she would fit perfectly. If it was
just the description except she's eleven, which should make you
pause a little bit grown up, officer. However, they have
a photograph where you don't have to use your imagination,
(15:10):
where you don't have to read a description and try
to find someone that matches it. You have a picture,
and though they have the same colors on, it's clear
to see that these are not the same people in
these photos.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Now, I want to add something here. The story I
just shared, and stories like that they happened when I
was in my adult mind. I kind of had some
of my wits about me and my capacity to deal
(15:49):
with those traumas, while not entirely fleshed out, was let's
call it more robust than what I would imagine the
capacity you have an eleven year old's ability would be.
So to say that this type of interaction would be
more traumatic to an eleven year old little girl, I
(16:12):
don't think that that's an exaggeration at all. I think
that this is the sort of thing that sticks with
her forever. This is the sort of thing that causes
her to feel like, well, the only people who have
ever scared me that have only made me feel afraid,
The only people who've ever caused me harm the only
people who've ever embarrassed me, the only people who've ever
made me feel like less of a human, the only
people who've ever taken my voice, the only people who've
(16:34):
ever spun a narrative and stuck to that narrative rather
than listen to the truth and listen to something that
is logical and linear in terms of how to arive
from this point to that point. The only people who
have actively tried to pressure me into admitting to something
(16:59):
that could not have been true is the police, and
therefore I don't trust police.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Before we move on, I want you to speak on
this because this is both ironically but unsurprisingly a truth
that we have to deal with. Our president elect has
openly endorsed stop and frisk, the thing that I think
has most enabled law enforcement to unjustifiably single us out
(17:32):
in instances like this. Before we move on, can you
just give us all some thoughts on what we might
have to look forward to as just days from now,
the worst president in our history will be inaugurated again.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Well, one of the things that I know, and I
don't love leaning on this, but one of the things
that I know is that we are a resilient people.
We've been through worse. One of the things that I
don't love us going back to this, but you know,
we've lived through as a people a time in this
(18:10):
country when things were much worse, and even with stopping
frisk and all this sort of stuff potentially being re
implemented or fully implemented into our society with respect to
people that police feel might be up to no good, which,
let's be honest, is black and round people and give
(18:32):
them license to assault us for all intents and purposes.
That's what it is, assault us and violate us in
full view of all the passers by. Even if that
ends up being our reality, I have to say that
we have been through worse, and we are resilient and
we can get through this. What I can say is
(18:55):
that the potential consequences of living through that, as far
as I can imagine, are very much consistent with you know,
what I have lived through what has caused me to
feel like the police are not the good guys in
(19:18):
my story, They're just not. There's no amount of copaganda,
there's no amount of watching TV shows where the police
guys go get the bad guys or whatever that will
change my reality, because my formative years were spent in Compton,
California with the LAPD, and the LAPD were always the
bad guys all the time. That's how corrupt the LAPD were.
(19:41):
Is that a three year old remembers the police beating
up people and then leaving them there. And this is
not a story that somebody told me. I saw it.
I saw it at four, I saw it at seven
on my formative years. I saw this happen. And when
(20:04):
the police are the bad guys in your story and
everyone else comes to their defense, when you've seen it,
and the said, oh, that's just a handful, Well no, no,
that's not just a handful. If it was just a handful,
I might have seen one and been unlucky. I saw
a whole system and consistent behaviors. Oh that's one department. Nah,
(20:27):
that's that doesn't that's not consistent with what I've learned,
because this has happened to my people since policing existed,
since it was invented. Right, this is true with the Panthers.
This is why the Panthers existed in the first place.
You know, this is a whole push of the civil
rights movement. You know, read the letter from a Birmingham jail,
(20:47):
doctor King. It goes into detail about how police are
kicking black people. This is in the sixties and the fifties, man, right,
and you know everyone comes to the defense of the police,
and the police get to do whatever they want and
they only do it from where I said to people
(21:09):
that look like me. So for me, when I get older,
this is what I have to look forward.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Don't put the qualifier. It's not just from you where
you sit. There's data that backs what you're saying, so
you don't have it.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
But even in my own reality, you know, my own experience,
and before I even get to the data, because you
know that came a little late later on, I had
some early teachings from my father. My father was a minister,
and you know, for those that know that come from
that tradition, you know, when you're in that position, you're
not just the person who teaches the word of God.
You're also the person who is kind of at the
(21:40):
helm of the community center, the community beacon, the person
who needs to to organize political power and strategize. You know,
a preacher in black neighborhoods and black communities around this
country and throughout this country's history. It's more than just
a person who interprets the of God or reads the
Bible to people on Sundays. A preacher is a person
(22:03):
who helps to organize you know, black communities, and therefore
being the son of a preacher, I did get that data,
but I didn't get it. You know, my earliest memories
are watching the police misbehave and hurt people. People crying
and bleeding blood. Like imagine seeing that so young. You know,
(22:24):
you get older and you see movies you're like, oh,
that's not real. I know that because I seen actual,
real blood come out of a person's body before. I
seen the pink skin underneath their brown flesh, and their
hair is with the skin part. I seen it happen
because it got hid in the head.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
I want to say. The reason why I push back
on the front where you sit is it gives people
the impression that that's just your part of you, and
that's not the truth.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
I see.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
You mean right. We live in a very litigious country.
People sue for everything, and we also live in a
country that really, really really wants to prove it it's
not racist. So if there were instances of these things
happening to white people. We would see and hear about
it all the time, and we never do because it
never happens, not just from your point of view, day period. Yah. Right.
(23:13):
I want to read this quote from the mother of
this eleven year old. She no longer wants to walk
to and from school anymore. That was the only freedom
she had and now it's gone. The mother said, she said,
my quote I can make I can't make sense of it.
I couldn't even finish watching the video. Even if it
(23:34):
wasn't my child. I wouldn't be able to finish watching
the video because that's not how you handle children.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
That's the trauma that I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
And that trauma last forever.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
That's the trauma I want to I want to share
another thing. So we talked about stopping frisk right, and
the trauma that it can impose on communities and strain relationships,
not just between black people and the police, but black
people and everybody else who's not getting stopped and frisked.
Strains on both sides because the people that are observing it,
(24:09):
it's reinforcing stereotypes. Oh, they're stopping black people because the
black people are up to no good and for black people.
It's like, you guys don't get treated like this, and
you look down on me, and I've done nothing wrong.
I've played this game by your rules, and you voted
for this and you reinforced this, and so it strains
communities beyond just black people and the police. But how
(24:30):
trauma works. You know, I got bit by a dog
when I was three years old. Never been comfortable with
dogs ever since then. Same exact thing that happens with
the police. I already know how y'all get down. Bring
a dog around me. The dog that bit me, I
(24:50):
was petting him in front of a fireplace at a
lady named Melody's house. I had a fantastic memory when
I was three years old. Say what you will about me,
but I was there and I remem I still got
the scar on my left arm. I got a heart
tattooed over it, and it's broken. That dog named Josh
bit me in my three year old arm, and I
(25:13):
saw my skin hanging off and blood going on the
wood floor, and my dad came out and picked me up,
and he took me to go get fixed. And you wrecked
that dog. Same dog bit my brother on the forehead.
If you see my brother raka Iris Science of the
Dilated People's He's got a scar on his forehead. Same
dog bit him. My dad had enough that day that trauma.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Stay with me.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
I'll be forty three years old this year. That's forty
years worth of trauma. Bring a dog around me right
now and watch how I act now. I'm not scared
because I'm in my man body. I'm physically bigger than
dogs now, but I am not easy around a dog.
I do not want to be cute. You got a dog,
you can tell him.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
I don't even talk about my dog. And you wouldn't let,
once upon a time, the love of your life have
a dog around you. No, we don't have to talk
about your brother. We've been ruled, little sister. You romantically
fall in love with a lot of us. I know
y'all listening. We've been rules for those that we fall
in love with, not that one.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
So that's trauma. That's how we.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Consider all of these things when judging the way that
black people respond to and interact with police. Because we
did not choose to feel this way about law enforcement.
Life taught us. And if you don't know now, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
This has been a production of the Black Information Network.
Today show is produced by Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts
you'd like to share, use the red microphone talkback beature
on the iHeartRadio app. While you're there, be sure to
hit subscribing down With all of our episodes, I am
your host ramsis Job on all social media.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
I am q Ward on all social media as well.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
I'm join us tomorrow as we share our news with
our voice from our perspective right here on the Black
Information Network. The Daily Podcast