June 12, 2025 • 48 mins
Today's special guest is Ashlea Taylor Barber, licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, and owner of the therapy & consulting practice "Favor & Grace Under Fire" .
Part 2 of 2 - Therapy for Black Marriages
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And now part two of our two part conversation with
Ashley Taylor Barber, as we discussed therapy for black marriages
right here on the Black Information Network Daily podcast. I'm
your host, Ramsey's job. Because you mentioned it earlier. I'm
gonna bring it up, describe it, and then we'll let
you go. So I had a conversation I mentioned earlier
(00:23):
with ea Afo, who's an epigeneticist, and on that show,
I had found the origin story behind what's known as
a barrel laugh. A barrel laugh for folks that don't know,
as a term used to describe like a really big
laugh where you kind of double over. Whatever. Now, I
want you to imagine a group of black children. They're
(00:48):
off in the distance. They're just hanging out with themselves.
They have backpacks on, it's after school whatever. They're in
a circle, and all of a sudden, one of them
says something funny, What do these black children do? I'm
gonna paint the picture for you. They there's like this uproar,
and they scatter and they're running and laughing, and then
they double over while they get the laugh out of
(01:11):
their body and they're just having a ball. Right now,
let's take it back. We're going to go back to
the Willie Lynch days, all right. So, yeah, in a
slave field, you are not allowed to be fully human.
They did not regard you as fully human hents, you know,
(01:32):
in the way they treated you. But that's in law
because there's the three fists compromise.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
You get that.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
But but you were not you were you were considered
a less evolved property. Yeah, but in terms of biologically
as well, you were less evolved. That's that's the scientific
basis for humanity. Yeah, there was a religious basis, there
was an economic basis, and there was a scientific basis.
There was bogus, but it all justified slavery. Now we
(02:00):
of course now know that we are indeed Homo sapien sapiens,
and everyone else came from us. Yes, So I mean,
we could have that conversation if.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
We so chose, but.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
While we're here, because this is not the pick on
anyone else hourly, because everyone that came from us I
regard as our younger siblings, and we have a responsibility
to take care of them and have maybe a degree
of patience for them as they find their way.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
And we're loving people and we're loving people and guided.
We are We've always been a loving people.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
We are loving people and patient. Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
But but you could not laugh in a slave field, right,
your full humanity. Imagine going your whole life and not laughing,
wouldn't it be crazy? But slaves could not laugh because
the slave masters would regard that as the slaves being
disrespectful or laughing at them. Yes, you mentioned in security,
(03:00):
I mentioned slave masters thinking of the slaves as like
not respecting them and maybe plotting or maybe there's something there. Right,
So either way it's some sort of worry on behalf
of the slave master that since the slaves are laughing,
that there's some problems. So slaves could not laugh in
the field, right, But it is inevitable. It is a
(03:22):
part of the human condition that we will laugh, right.
And I mentioned even if you go to a funeral
and bury the person closest to you, give it, give
it a month, give it two months. Eventually you're going
to let out a laugh. It is a part of
who we are as a species. Yes, So it is
human to laugh, and we were prevented from laughing as slaves, right,
(03:44):
So what happens if something happens that's hilarious in the
slave field, right, and you're a slave, you cannot get
caught laughing, so you scatter. And what the slaves did,
and this is just I was not able as a
journalist to substantiate this, but I do believe it to
be true. I believe that this happened. This is the origin. Yeah,
(04:04):
the term, the term originated from. The slaves would often
find a barrel and they would they would hunch into
the barrel and have their laughing fit into the barrel
so that they would not get caught laughing. So there
was the scattering, there's the doubling over and everyone laughs
and then they come back together. Right. So to see
that in modern times, in children with their backpacks, you
(04:28):
have the cases for a behavioral expression of what epigenetics
says is indeed happening. So I wanted to make sure
that I got that off because I think that that
helps substantiate the statement that you're making here.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, I mean, the more science that comes out that
backs a lot of the theory, These things that people
may think are small, right, such as laughing or laughing
(05:08):
in a barrel, are hugely going to be linked to survival.
And yeah, it's crazy that laughter something that actually helps
you lose weight.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
As well as removes.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
That cellular stress from your body, was something that was
not allowed. But the thing I like about this story,
and this is probably the only thing like about this,
this real story, right, this true life story, because I
think it's going to be substantiated, just give it time.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Is that the survival. Yeah, so it's not it's not
that they stop laughing.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Yeah, it's that they found a way to do it
without getting in trouble. So it's I mean, that's the
thing that I love when we research our history, right,
is that let's take away the shame, blame and guilt
of all of these situations, because shame, blame and guilt
stops you from moving forward. It stops the creative. You're
(06:11):
stuck in the sympathetic which is your fight, flight, freeze
or fawn, and all your body is literally doing in
that state is surviving so much so that the blood
leaves your brain.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
You go into the more what we call the lizard brain,
which is back here, yeah, the Olympic.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
But they say lizard because you know lizards. If you
walk outside and you step a lizard just scatters. There's
not much depths. You don't have your prefrontal cortex, which
is your cause and effect thinking up here. None of
that is happening because the blood that was up here
has rushed to your extremities so you can survive. It
coats your major organs, right, and you're just in protection mode. Sure,
(06:49):
So once again what I always emphasize to my clients
is that, but there's beauty in that because your survival,
your body is doing exactly what it needs to do
to survive. So once again, they do a barrel. They
laughed in it, right. We can look at many other
ways where we're tying survival back to current day. Even
though you could say we're in the sympathetic nervous system
(07:12):
fight flight, freezer, fond, we're looking at the stereotypical strong
black woman, the matriarch, the head of the household. Unfortunately
it was made out of this really traumatic event, but
it has also generationally pushed generations through, you know, so
it's gotten people into spaces that you're in. You know
that charisma. You told me a beautiful story about your grandma.
(07:33):
There was strength in that story, there was wisdom in
that story, but it could have come from something hurtful
that she experienced, that she saw and she said, don't
do that.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
It did you?
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Oh? I know that because our people have innately always
worked in a way of survival. But turning what was
horrible into beauty. I mean, that's soul, food, that's our hair,
that's our muse what other what else?
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Sports? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Well, let me let me let me ask you this then,
because in your area of expertise, and I've in the
past several years, there's been the rise of the influencer.
There's been the rise of the relationship guru expert as
an influencer. There's been a rise in the hyper masculine.
(08:33):
I wouldn't know what to call this, but influencer that
young boys who haven't quite found their way will latch
onto right. And you know, marriage as an institution has
been inundated with all of these different perspectives. And when
(08:54):
it comes to Black people having a let's call it
a unique human background, at least those of us on
this continent, all of this noise can be overwhelming confusings.
Maybe some of it's valid, maybe some of it isn't
(09:16):
you know, I don't know. I'm not married, and everyone
knows that famously. I'm not married, but you know, because
this is the world in which you work. You talked
about people going in a protection mode. You talked about,
you know, maybe talk to us a little bit about
some of the challenges that you see people facing nowadays,
(09:36):
especially black people, and you talked about like how we've
come to cope with certain things. So maybe some of
the challenges and maybe some of the healthier coping challenges
for folks who are either married or want to be married,
because I think that you can offer a lot of
(09:56):
people dealing with those particular issues some real inside.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Yeah. So marriages work, all.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Right, Okay, I'm I'm here with you.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Marriages work. Marriages it's a beautiful work if I had
to put it into a short sentence, But it's also
tricky work because you have that love feeling, that oxytocin
that hits your brain.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
That person is your everything.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Oh my gosh, I don't know how I made it
through life without this person, you know, And it's just intoxicating,
and that's how that's love. That's what it's supposed to
feel like, right, But the work comes in where when
you come down from that and this person is not
(10:52):
in the best mood, or they're going through a life transition,
which could be having a kid, kids going off to college,
work trouble, parents getting older, and now you're the adult
child parenting your parent. I have a lot of clients
going through that right now. Or you're realizing that your
parents aren't perfect and they don't know everything. That's people
have a hard time with that too. But so you're
(11:15):
over here, one of the partners in the marriage going
through whatever you're going through. This other partner is going
through what they're going through, and we have no key
tools for communication or forgiveness. That's the number one problem
I see. So to put that into a nutshell of
coping skills or what you should do number one when
(11:36):
we talk about marriage, or when we talk about just
even a couple, right two people saying I want to
be with you. I always tell folks, make sure you're
best friends. If you're not best friends, we need to
work on that first, because at the end of the day,
no matter what happens, you're going to look for your
(11:57):
best friend.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Over your lover because you get old.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Your body does different things. Life is happening, but you
know how to get through with your best friend. Your
best friend is your Bonnie and Clyde. You can move
the lever over here and say the vulnerable things to
your best friend that you may not always be able
to say to the lover. So become best friends.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
How do you do that?
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Number one Nujen He did structural family therapy. You have
two people. First of all, when two people come together,
you want two whole people. We are not having to
have people come together and hoping that the other person
creates their whole because it's going to.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Create communication problems.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
It's going to create insecurities, it's going to create what yes, codependency,
it's going to create way for just anything negative that
can essentially tear you guys apart, just because for times sake, right,
So we need to hold people. If you're not a
whole person, do what you need to do to become
a whole person.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Many ways go to therapy.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Some people find it in spirituality, some people find it
in their craft. Don't make your craft who you completely are.
Finally authentic you and what you love and figure out
how to do that. You know, but figure out who
you are first become whole. Then you join together as
a couple and figure out how you're going to make
this thing work, how you're going to kind of be
(13:23):
this yin and yang that evolves throughout time, because that's
the other thing. People change. So if you're not best
friends when I change, but you don't change, you might
not like me because you married me ten years ago
and now I'm someone completely different. But the difference is
if we're best friends, my core is still there, you
know what I'm saying. The second thing is I always
(13:44):
tell people to go to premarital, Go to premarital, go
to premerical. It is just so premeral counseling is literally
just a toolbook. You go through what you think about
child wearing, you go through how you want to handle finances,
you go through how to learn how to forgive.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Most of us aren't taught how to forgive. It sounds
so easy.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Yes, okay, real quick, while we're at premarital. Yes, is
that the phase where so I'm listening to talk if
in a completely different, separate, alternative universe, this was the
thing that I would consider. Yeah, one of the things, okay,
(14:26):
but one of the things that I know is really
really important and really special. I kind of get a
sense of it knowing you. I get a sense of it,
knowing like my teachers and my sisters, right that because
of the things that I've learned in my life, there's
(14:47):
a degree of care that is present when I interact
with black women. That is, you know, I treat women.
I like to think that I treat women well. With
black women, I kind of understand a little there's there's yeah, culturally,
(15:13):
it could be epigenetically speaking, it could be any number.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Of things, right probably, Yeah, you're probably you.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Talked about pre marital it's unders also while you're here,
maybe maybe talk about where kind of the understanding of
a person's family history, lineage, what traumas, that sort of
thing is it is it is? It? Does that come
into play at the pre marital stage when you're getting
to know that I do yes, okay, okay, go ahead,
(15:41):
So you.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Know pre marital it's this toolbook that you know, Prepare
and Rich is the company that created it, which I
think it's really good. They don't talk about the trauma,
but when people come to me, we talk about the trauma,
and I might say something like you need individual therapy
because this trauma might end up erupting into your marriage, right,
and for the audience, you know, trauma is an event
(16:06):
or it could be a number of events that your
brain categorize categorizes as a threat to you, just to
make that simple, just in case. Trauma is such a
buzzword right now, so I always want to make sure
that people understand what it is. And so your brain
marks it as something that can be a threat to you.
And anytime your nervous system senses that that threat is
coming towards you, whether it's smells, site, touch, taste, sound,
(16:30):
or even movement, your brain once again goes into fight
flight freezer fawn. You're not emotionally thinking, you're not critically thinking,
because your brain is just like, let's survive, okay. So
in a marriage, that can be deadly. That can kill
a marriage. So for example, if you have, you know,
a partner who's been unfortunately sexually assaulted or raped and
(16:54):
that was never processed in therapy, that could come into
the marriage and make both partners feel like that intimacy
level is never going to be met and for some
people in marriage, that's a problem.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Right. Or if you have.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Let's say, if we have a male coming into a
marriage and he never quite trusted his mother because his
mother had her own mental illness. So even though he
wants to love his wife, you can't quite love her
the way that she feels she should be loved because
he was never shown that love by a woman, and
his brain tells him, don't trust women even though you
like women.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (17:27):
So you get this. This is a part of the
premarital stage that people are able to learn about their partner.
So let me say this. Let me say it's why
you're premarital. That's very important to watch this So as
a black woman and dealing with in particular black couples
or couples where one of the people is black or
(17:47):
identifies as black, or whatever the case, whatever you do. Yes, sure,
so I think that you're a living testament. And you
can add to this if you want. We'll get back
to premarital book. But a person that is able to
come to you and talk to you in particular, I
think that there's there you have. I'm sure that you
(18:09):
would say that there's something special about a black person
talking to you, because you're able to talk to a
black person on their terms. And the reason I say
is because on the show, we've had conversations with medical
professionals where you know, black women, we deal with maternal
(18:30):
health care outcomes and things like that. If there's a
black doctor, doula, whatever in the room, the rate of
death for the mother drops like so much because somebody
will listen to them and speak to them on their
language and they feel comfortable communicating to the black person.
(18:52):
So I'm sure that this is your experience as well. Yes, okay,
so when you say this is my process, I know
what to look for. I think that you're living testament
to the fact that sometimes getting a culturally competent not
necessarily racially similar. But I think culturally competent is what
(19:13):
I'll say. But racially similar, I think you often enough
have cultural competence in that equation. But a culturally competent professional,
medical professional, health care professional, mental health professional, therapist, et cetera. Yeah,
will grease those gears a bit as you take your
(19:36):
This is step two here, you find your best friend.
That's step one. Step two is the premarital work. So
go ahead.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I mean, well, so there's so much we can talk about.
But yes, so when I do have kids. I don't
have kids yet, but I would love to have a
culturally competent I would prefer an African American, you know,
doctor in the room delivering my baby, just because I
feel like if you're in that ethnic group, like, let's
(20:03):
just we'll put racism to the side. But if you're
in that ethnic group, you've probably done more research on
your ethnic group.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Let's just be real.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah, So not only are they going to be more
educated on the black female body, but there's just a
sense of community and tribal awareness there in my opinion,
And it's the same thing with the doula or any
other birth worker. And by the way, in Arizona we
have the Black Birth Workers Forum if anybody's interested, and
(20:31):
they teach quarterly classes if you're expecting or going.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
To have a baby.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
I just always put that out there because resources are important.
But anyway, for me personally, I know that that would
be better for me because when we're talking about epigenetics,
I know that if I can't find somebody who I
feel like understands me or at least has some clear
educational background on how my body works, I'm going to
be in fight, flight, bond or freeze And what does
(20:59):
that mean for my baby? My baby can feel my
anxiety already.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
In the womb.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
So and that's so sad to think about, right that
my baby is already feeling that distress, and then I'm
pass I'm literally passing on cells to my baby of
that distress for a situation because I feel like maybe
a doctor doesn't care because I'm black, or maybe a
doctor has a research or just doesn't listen because he
doesn't feel like what I'm saying is valid.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
And what we're meaning by that.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Is there's actually a lot of studies that talk about
how when black people report their pain, it's discounted.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
So I could definitely report.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
My pain out of ten. Well, honestly, this happened to
my best friend. She literally was having a C section.
They were cutting her open. She's telling everybody around her,
literally telling everybody around her that she's feeling pain. Now,
let me pause for a moment. This is a educated woman.
Not only does she have a master's degree in therapy,
(21:56):
but she literally just graduated to be a psychiatric nurse practitioner.
So I think if we want to talk about qualifications,
this woman knows what pain feels like, you know.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
At the lowest level. She's educated.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Because we have to do all these qualifiers for black
people in America to say that what they're saying means something.
So I'm just putting that out there. Literally just happened
to her two years ago. They were cutting her open
and we're not listening. They told her, no, no, no,
you're just feeling pressure.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Well, I know the difference between pressure and pain.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
So I mean, my point is that that could have
affected her child. That child is living her in her women.
If we're talking about epigenetics now, she could have this
overly stressed or anxious or just very cautious child, and
we could scientifically point it back to that event.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
You know.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
So me who has never had these experiences, I have
not for children yet, but I know just listening to
my clients and my friends around me, I will be
a lot calmer with adula in the room. I will
have a doula or some type of birth worker or
some type of doctor.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Who has successfully delivered a lot of black babies.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Or is the color of my skin because just for
the emotional health of my body, because your body keeps
the score people. So I always say to folks, emotional
disease equals physical disease. Now that we have statistics on
so high blood pressure anxiety can equal high rock pressure,
(23:25):
stress can equal, especially in Black women, high rates of stroke,
heart disease, hypertension. So we know that there's a connection.
Emotional disease equals physical disease, and physical disease equals emotional disease.
We see high rates of black women having autoimmune diseases.
You track that back. Autoimmune diseases tract to stress. What
(23:48):
is the stress coming from living in America? I mean
in short, but you know what I'm saying. So to
your question, representation matters. And I have taken the premarital
curriculum from preparing Rich, which I think they did a
great job. But they don't have a cultural component. They
(24:08):
have a spiritual component, and then they have a regular,
non traditional component. They don't have a cultural component. So yes,
so when people come into my office, they're not going
to get just the cookie cutter eight session. Let's read
this workbook. They're going to get. No, let's talk about
how your dad, how you have seen your dad take
(24:31):
care of your mom? Because one of the parts is
how do you want to be loved? So each partner
gets to be asked how do they want to be loved?
What does love look like to you? Which is a
huge question because I'm going to assume that how I
like to be loved is the way you like to
be loved. Sure, unless somebody asks me the question.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
So what do we get from that?
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I have this mixed race couple and the male is
half black have Asian. And he says, well, I see
this for protection, So I do everything I can to
protect her. I stand in front of her when walking
on the sidewalk, I stand closest to the street.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
You know, things like.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
That, You ask her who she's Hispanic? Stay at home
mom didn't face much racism, but has an understanding because
of geographically where she grew up. Right, she will say,
you know, love looks like oh What'd she say?
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Him folding my clothes? And so for him, he's like
what And then.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
He countered with well, love looks like you. When I'm
driving home, I call you. You open up the garage and
you're standing in the garage and you're waving at me
and you're smiling.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
And she's like, do I look like you know? Like
I work too, But just in.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
That little nugget, you know, And this is an hour
and a half session. They never would have had that
conversation and he would have gone on protecting her. She
would have gone on calling him, calling it short man syndrome.
He would have gone on getting mad because he doesn't
understand her, and she would have gone on saying, well,
(26:04):
you don't understand me either. They would have ended up
in my office maybe eight years later for marital counseling. Wow,
but not marital counseling to stay together, because mind you,
most people wait eight years to go into marital therapy.
It'll be marital therapy to decide whether we're getting divorced.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
So that's why I say do.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Pre marital because even when you're dating and you spend
like every day with this person, and it's amazing, you're
not thinking about these questions. And historically, whose parents have
sat them down and been like, hey, have you ever
thought about where your love languages are, or how.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
You like to be loved or how you clearly set
boundaries or communicate your feelings.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
No, like nobody's doing that. Your parents are just saying.
For girls, your parents are saying, do not get with
someone who's gonna beat you. Don't get with someone who's manipulative.
Find somebody who's financially stable. I can't speak for men
like what their parents are telling them, but I'm just saying.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Like, don't be a girl.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Okay, So it's not much.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
So long story short, I saw a gap in our community,
and I accept all people. We are a community of love.
Black people are people of love. So I will teach anybody.
But my practice was created predominantly for African American people
to learn to be in a relationship, because that was
stripped from us. We were brought to this country to
(27:27):
work and be commodities. We weren't brought were not brought
to this country to be loved or to be in relationship.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
I would like to say something because this is another
thing that I say on my show quite a bit,
and it's funny because I was in La not too
long ago. I had a microphone in an audience and
was able to kind of share this if you hear
me say it. Of course it goes without saying, but
I think it echoes that sentiment that you shared right now,
(28:01):
that we weren't just born to fight and then die.
That's not fair. We deserve to like laugh and play
and to pick up our children and to ride bikes,
and we deserve all of these things because we are
(28:23):
valuable and precious too, and we if our whole story
is were born and then we struggle, and then we're
in our seventies and we're still struggling, and then we
die and we leave some extra struggle to our kids.
That is not fair. And so you know, I you know,
obviously we all have a role to play. This is
(28:44):
the activist warrior time in my life, and I'm living
in my truth, so no one will be able to
say I didn't I didn't stand it for my people.
I'm not given to cowardice, and so here I am.
But I love that you said that, because nobody is
(29:04):
nobody should just be forced to be one thing, but
nobody should be able to get away with not doing
the hard part. I don't think that. I think everybody
needs to show up and play their position.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Now.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Now, I don't want to hijack the conversation. You said
number one be best friends. You said number two premarital.
I'm assuming that's premarital therapy.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Yeah, and I really think we need to rename that anyway,
because you don't have to be getting married married in
order to do that yeah, yeah, maybe just I don't
know couples therapy to learn how to communicate, we need
a new name. But anybody can do it. I invite
anybody to do it because it's just relationship building. Everything
(29:57):
is a relationship. You know, you have a relationship with
this beautiful space. It's an extension of who you are.
It's authentic to who you are. There's a relationship between
you and the space. There's a relationship between you and
your son. There's a relationship between the clients that I meet.
I see relationship everywhere. So we as a people once again,
(30:20):
I'm talking about African American people who were brought our
ancestors were brought over to America.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
To work or be enslaved.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
We did not have the opportunity to learn relationship. We
have the opportunity to learn fact and we took it,
which is awesome. And so I just saw that as
a major, a common denominator of one of the missing
(30:51):
pieces in the fight, because it's hard to keep fighting
when trauma is being poked. When I was in grad school,
they did this illustration of trauma as a sunburn, right,
and so you get the first trauma and you're burnt up,
and then every single time you're reminded of that trauma,
(31:13):
someone's poking you.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
We're getting poked.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
But we haven't felt safe enough due to past experiments
and over diagnosing and a lot of things right, but
we haven't felt safe enough to really one be okay
with our feelings. My mom was like, I was taught
feelings were weak because my grandpa was from Mississippi, you know,
super Jim Crow situation, and for him, confidence is what
(31:39):
got him up and out and into his own business.
He didn't care what anybody else thought, you know. So
for her, feelings were weakness, and so for me going
to therapy school, everybody was like, what the hell feelings
are weakness?
Speaker 3 (31:51):
But go help those crazy people.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
And I'm like, actually, no, I'm not helping those crazy people.
I'm literally dismantling generational patterns. Because if you don't feel
your feelings, I always tell people stop, pause, think, put
in a coping skill, find a solution, because if you
don't feel your feelings, put in a coping skill, you
can't even critically think to find the real solution. So
(32:14):
I felt like for African American people, in order for
us to find the real solution, we can't allow our
bodies to continue to be traumatized.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Well, let me see if I can't stick the landing,
because I know that folks will want to hear it.
If you could give us one more piece of advice again,
the first one is be best friends, Yes, be best
The second one is we'll call it maintenance therapy.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Well, the first one is make sure your whole person.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Oh remember, okay, the whole.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Person't have two half people, So make sure a whole
you're a whole person.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
So so then let's go with that. Then okay, how
does that? How does that look? How do you make
sure you're a whole person? Because I'm sure anybody that
if you said that, if you said that to a person,
they would say, of course, I'm a whole person. But
what does that look like?
Speaker 2 (33:07):
How do I say this without all the therapy terms.
Being able to spend time by yourself, in your authenticity,
doing things that you love, without second guessing or worrying,
(33:33):
or feeling lost or feeling like you're not making enough
of a difference, or people pleasing or wishing somebody else
was there. It's the difference between loneliness and solitude. Can
you find solitude with just you, And some people would
(33:54):
say with god to I got you. But can you
find solitude with just being by yourself?
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Does that mean you know better than me? And I don't.
I'm hoping that I'm tracking with you, but I'm learning.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Does that mean like before you enter into a relationship,
you should I hope I don't mess this up. You
should like already like be proud of yourself. Yes, dig
(34:31):
get it? Yeah? All right, cool, all right, I'll go
with that.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Yeah. Essentially, I mean it's it's that key phase.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
In childhood right like uh, developmentally, I think it's like
the seventy eight nine ten where you're creating your own
identity outside of your parents, you know, and you're really
starting to learn what you love and who you are.
A lot of times when you get to high school,
that's stripped because people call it you're a nerd, or
(34:56):
you're stupid or this or that. I'm talking about that
little peer where you just authentically like yourself and are
okay with yourself before it's tarnished. If you don't have
that in adulthood, get it back, okay.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
So where we are then? Three pieces of advice from
a bona fide, marriage, therapist, counselor trauma, family, all the things,
all of it. Yes, number one, you see how I
got it. Number one, you will be best friends.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Number two, you will do maintenance or like therapy, maintenance
or what you refer to as pre marital.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
We'll call it premarital now, but we're gonna change them.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Okay, we'll change the name at some point. But the
concept is solid, this.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Concept of solid, and even in that you'll figure out
if your whole or not. It's going to challenge your
identity perfect.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
And then the third one, of course, is showing up
as a whole person. And for people that have a
problem with that language, it might be a little bit
too much for them because a lot of times people
the influencers say things like yeah, they say things and
it's hard to grasp onto it. It sounds good in
a thirty second video, but what does that really mean? Yeah,
(36:22):
And what I heard you say today just a few
minutes ago, was make sure that you are proud of yourself. Yes,
so that you can stand on your own and be
comfortable with your own thoughts and you're not given to
your own insecurities in the way that a person who
has not yet found that version of their story might
be or and maybe there's other ways to say it
(36:43):
that are more precise. Okay, as long as those youself.
So those three pieces of advice, Yes, and then we
will add to it, yeah to start, of course, but
we'll add to it, and you correct me if I'm wrong,
because of course you're the expert, will add to it.
That'd be mindful of the fact that there may be
(37:04):
a separate factor that you should account for in dealing
with a unique people with a unique experience, and there's
an you can make an epigenetic case for the fact
that it exists, even though you might just look at
(37:25):
it as you know, angry black Mama, or you might
look at it as like whatever fell in.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
You might look at it as someone who's loud or
over opinionated, or the opposite, someone who is very introverted
and timid, and maybe they.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Just observe because that's their survival stance.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Whatever you want to hear something. Really, it's a sad
story for me, a very sad story, because I once
upon a time I was engaged to be married and
my ex fiance she wanted my name, and she wanted
a baby and that, and so we got engaged and
before we before our wedding date, we became pregnant. But
(38:09):
you know, she had my ring. We lived together, everything
was fine. We were adults, so we had it. And
then one day she said to me that I believe
this was from postpartum depression. But she said that I
suffered from colored Man's complex. And I had never heard
that before, but I knew what she meant because I
didn't want the police to come to my house, okay,
(38:31):
And she was making a scene and I'm like, hey,
you got a chill because you know whatever? Yeah, and
she's like, whatever, you suffer from colored Man's complex. And
that to me was I mean, I've been hurt a
lot in my life, but that was that was. I'll
I think if I came back to life and lived again,
I would remember that I hurt me so bad, Like
I lost the peace of myself that day because I'm like,
(38:54):
oh my god, she's holding my son and now I
have to protect my son from his mom. And that's
what my brain told me, right. So the idea of
knowing who you are, standing in the middle of yourself,
be proud of yourself. The idea of do the work beforehand,
the idea of you know, find your best friend. You know,
these these concepts, and I appreciate the fact that you've
(39:18):
made them live in a way that is unlike the
influencers and people that just kind of do it for
the clicks. This feels like a little bit more valid.
There you go. But we've also accounted for the fact
that there's the traumas that people will often get made
fun of for, like I was made fun of for
in that moment where I didn't want the police to come.
(39:39):
Bearing in mind that there are special traumas, and not
just for black people, because all marginalized people have their
own traumas. But on this show, you and I am
sure are able to speak to these traumas specifically because
they're a little bit more part and parcel to our experience.
But I think that we end up having a little
bit more And this is really what I wanted to
capture from you today. So your final thoughts and then
(40:03):
we'll let you get back to life, back to reality.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Oh my gosh, we're on final thoughts and you just
dropped all that.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
That's the first time I'm ever sharing that stories. That's
always a very person and she and I were great,
you know, and I don't want anybody to worry.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
I just.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
So first off, we have to talk about that and
we'll keep it short. But I meet with a lot
of specifically Black women who are dating outside of the race.
I have a lot of sessions about this because there's
talks of when I get pregnant, can this man protect
(40:43):
me because they don't have this lived experience versus being
with the man who I guess we would say has
colorism complex, who completely understands the depth of the color
that is on.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Our skin and the skin of the baby.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
And the skin of the baby, and is going to
be very hyper vigilant and aware of everything that's happening.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
Right, So.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
It's kind of in retrospect to what you're saying, but
still the same thing that we have to work through
this trauma and in a sense nail down what are
their non negotiables for this partner, because it's different when
you're dating, when you start talking about kids in marriage,
It's like you understand that the paternal birth rate, the
maternal birth rate of Black women is super low because
of things that could be prevented. Right, So you as
(41:32):
this other person in the room has to be secure
in yourself to be able to acknowledge what could happen
in this room, and that I could literally die if
you don't speak up, which is a heavy weight for
someone who has never carried the weight of being black
in America or being any oppressed ethnic group. So on
(41:56):
that note, I just want to acknowledge that I particularly
don't want to call it a comp because when you
say complex, you're scapegoating the true issue, and the true
issue is is that when you call some when you
call the police to your house, or the police get
called to.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Your house, they're going to see a Hispanic woman and
a black man and she's.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Well, and they're most likely going to call it a
domestic dispute. That and someone has by loss, someone has
to get taken away, and the chances of being you
are much higher. So that's not a complex. That is
a reality. That's a live reality. And so for my clients,
I would keep repeating, there's nothing wrong with you. That's
(42:35):
a lived reality, because what people tend to do is
they want to scapegoat these things and make us feel
like we're crazy or something's wrong with us. When this
is my lived reality. So part of for you, you
putting that ring on her finger, And this is what
I tell my clients, for them, you accepting this ring,
and that person putting this ring on your finger means
(42:57):
that they're accepting that they're now living in you your reality.
So your reality is a black man in America, the
danger is much higher. So it supersedes her reality of
being a Latino woman. And so with that premieral couple
that I was telling you about, she's Hispanic, but she
is Caucasian presenting.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
He is not a Caucasian.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
He is half black, half Asian. So in our premierital session,
we talked about that because he had a lot of concerns.
He's like, kept saying, you're going to raise black kids.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
I am black. I don't care how light. He kept
telling her.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
That, I don't care how light you are to care.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Or how light they are, you know.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
So, I mean, but there's not a lot of talks
about this, or there's not a lot of conversations about
this yet. But once again, that's your lived reality. So
if she puts that ring on, and that's what I
had to tell her in a very nice way, Like
we've both report and everything, but you put that ring on, babe.
So now you are saying I'm fully a part of
this community. You're also recognizing your privilege and understanding that
(44:00):
you're walking into a community that doesn't have the privilege
that you have. So now you wear this hat of
an ally and you have to be able to stand
on that privilege. But you can't stand on that privilege
if you're not a whole person. So have you done
the work? So if she was in therapy, oh thank
god he's in therapy.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
They're doing the work.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
But do you see what I'm saying, Like it all
kind of ties together with what we're talking about his epigenetics.
To tie it all together is telling him, well, I'm
in love with this woman who's white presenting. She's not
white presenting, and she gets it. But she's got to
understand that her privilege outweighs my privilege, even though I'm
a man in America. So if it goes down, she
is going to have to stand ten toes down and
(44:40):
defend all of us, our kids. Ever, you know what
I'm saying, there's a weight to it, and so can
you carry that weight? Most people can if you're not
a whole person, because we who are born into this
have trouble carrying this weight. So does that make sense?
So you go to primarital so you can have these conversations.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
So I can't ask.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
You can you care to that?
Speaker 2 (45:05):
And so I can also say, just woman to woman,
don't say that sure, and we can have this conversation
about okay, ramseys, why did that hurt you so bad?
And then we can and then she can hear that
and there's a woman who loves you. It breaks her
down because it was it was this weakness in her
that said that. So then we go and work on
(45:26):
the weakness and then whatever's missing that made her say that,
we build that in the relationship because the best friend
doesn't want to hurt you. It's the lover that hurt you,
not the best friend. You know, your stuff, but epigenetics
in her she said that because of something that happened
to her. Right, yeah, it's so trauma that's passed down
that she went for the jugular. You don't go to
(45:47):
the jugular for no reason. That was a stress, that
was a threat response, that was a fight response. She
fought with her mouth.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
Why premarital?
Speaker 2 (45:56):
We will figure it out my primaral not prim but anyway,
so it all matters. So be a whole person, be
best friends, and do the work. The work is some
type of therapy, some type of class on communication, premierital
with me, whatever, if you wanted to last. Don't spend
all this money, don't spend all this time with this
person and not do the groundwork. We're building a house
(46:17):
with a foundation. We're not building a house on a
hill and waiting for it to top in five years,
especially when kids are involved.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Boom, all right, well words Live by Ashley Taylor Barber.
Once again, thank you for coming on the show. I
want to make sure I state this again. She is
an independently independently licensed marriage and family therapist, relationship expert,
a keynote speaker, and of course the CEO slash owner
(46:47):
of the therapy and consulting practice Favor and Grace under Fire.
Do us a favor, leave any social media because I'm
sure people have questions. People might want to, you know,
ask how to get a hold of your services, anything
like that.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
Yeah, So Ashley in favor is it's all of my
social media handles or you can just google me Ashley Taylor.
Everything will come up my website. I have great therapists.
They've been trained with me by me, so they would
love to meet with you on our couch. If not,
you can find me at the Black Therapist an AZ
event in July July twelfth. More information coming, but yeah.
(47:24):
Social media Ashley in Favor and then my website Favor
and Grace centerfire dot com.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
It's long, but it was God given, so I used it.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Amen, Google me Ashley Taylor Barber.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
That's Ashley A s h l e A.
Speaker 3 (47:37):
Oh thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
Yes, yep. My mom wanted me to be special, so
a at the end instead of a. Wy.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
All right, well, well, thank you so much for your
time with appre suing me.
Speaker 3 (47:46):
This was great.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
This has been a production of the Black Information Network.
Today's show is produced by Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts
you'd like to share? Use the red microphone talkback feature
on the iHeartRadio app. While you're there, be sure to
hit subscribing. Download all of our episodes. I am your host,
ramses Jah on all social media. Join us tomorrow as
we share our news with our voice from our perspective
(48:08):
right here on the Black Information Network Daily Podcast
And now part two of our two part conversation with
Ashley Taylor Barber, as we discussed therapy for black marriages
right here on the Black Information Network Daily podcast. I'm
your host, Ramsey's job. Because you mentioned it earlier. I'm
gonna bring it up, describe it, and then we'll let
you go. So I had a conversation I mentioned earlier
(00:23):
with ea Afo, who's an epigeneticist, and on that show,
I had found the origin story behind what's known as
a barrel laugh. A barrel laugh for folks that don't know,
as a term used to describe like a really big
laugh where you kind of double over. Whatever. Now, I
want you to imagine a group of black children. They're
(00:48):
off in the distance. They're just hanging out with themselves.
They have backpacks on, it's after school whatever. They're in
a circle, and all of a sudden, one of them
says something funny, What do these black children do? I'm
gonna paint the picture for you. They there's like this uproar,
and they scatter and they're running and laughing, and then
they double over while they get the laugh out of
(01:11):
their body and they're just having a ball. Right now,
let's take it back. We're going to go back to
the Willie Lynch days, all right. So, yeah, in a
slave field, you are not allowed to be fully human.
They did not regard you as fully human hents, you know,
(01:32):
in the way they treated you. But that's in law
because there's the three fists compromise.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
You get that.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
But but you were not you were you were considered
a less evolved property. Yeah, but in terms of biologically
as well, you were less evolved. That's that's the scientific
basis for humanity. Yeah, there was a religious basis, there
was an economic basis, and there was a scientific basis.
There was bogus, but it all justified slavery. Now we
(02:00):
of course now know that we are indeed Homo sapien sapiens,
and everyone else came from us. Yes, So I mean,
we could have that conversation if.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
We so chose, but.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
While we're here, because this is not the pick on
anyone else hourly, because everyone that came from us I
regard as our younger siblings, and we have a responsibility
to take care of them and have maybe a degree
of patience for them as they find their way.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
And we're loving people and we're loving people and guided.
We are We've always been a loving people.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
We are loving people and patient. Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
But but you could not laugh in a slave field, right,
your full humanity. Imagine going your whole life and not laughing,
wouldn't it be crazy? But slaves could not laugh because
the slave masters would regard that as the slaves being
disrespectful or laughing at them. Yes, you mentioned in security,
(03:00):
I mentioned slave masters thinking of the slaves as like
not respecting them and maybe plotting or maybe there's something there. Right,
So either way it's some sort of worry on behalf
of the slave master that since the slaves are laughing,
that there's some problems. So slaves could not laugh in
the field, right, But it is inevitable. It is a
(03:22):
part of the human condition that we will laugh, right.
And I mentioned even if you go to a funeral
and bury the person closest to you, give it, give
it a month, give it two months. Eventually you're going
to let out a laugh. It is a part of
who we are as a species. Yes, So it is
human to laugh, and we were prevented from laughing as slaves, right,
(03:44):
So what happens if something happens that's hilarious in the
slave field, right, and you're a slave, you cannot get
caught laughing, so you scatter. And what the slaves did,
and this is just I was not able as a
journalist to substantiate this, but I do believe it to
be true. I believe that this happened. This is the origin. Yeah,
(04:04):
the term, the term originated from. The slaves would often
find a barrel and they would they would hunch into
the barrel and have their laughing fit into the barrel
so that they would not get caught laughing. So there
was the scattering, there's the doubling over and everyone laughs
and then they come back together. Right. So to see
that in modern times, in children with their backpacks, you
(04:28):
have the cases for a behavioral expression of what epigenetics
says is indeed happening. So I wanted to make sure
that I got that off because I think that that
helps substantiate the statement that you're making here.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, I mean, the more science that comes out that
backs a lot of the theory, These things that people
may think are small, right, such as laughing or laughing
(05:08):
in a barrel, are hugely going to be linked to survival.
And yeah, it's crazy that laughter something that actually helps
you lose weight.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
As well as removes.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
That cellular stress from your body, was something that was
not allowed. But the thing I like about this story,
and this is probably the only thing like about this,
this real story, right, this true life story, because I
think it's going to be substantiated, just give it time.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Is that the survival. Yeah, so it's not it's not
that they stop laughing.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Yeah, it's that they found a way to do it
without getting in trouble. So it's I mean, that's the
thing that I love when we research our history, right,
is that let's take away the shame, blame and guilt
of all of these situations, because shame, blame and guilt
stops you from moving forward. It stops the creative. You're
(06:11):
stuck in the sympathetic which is your fight, flight, freeze
or fawn, and all your body is literally doing in
that state is surviving so much so that the blood
leaves your brain.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
You go into the more what we call the lizard brain,
which is back here, yeah, the Olympic.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
But they say lizard because you know lizards. If you
walk outside and you step a lizard just scatters. There's
not much depths. You don't have your prefrontal cortex, which
is your cause and effect thinking up here. None of
that is happening because the blood that was up here
has rushed to your extremities so you can survive. It
coats your major organs, right, and you're just in protection mode. Sure,
(06:49):
So once again what I always emphasize to my clients
is that, but there's beauty in that because your survival,
your body is doing exactly what it needs to do
to survive. So once again, they do a barrel. They
laughed in it, right. We can look at many other
ways where we're tying survival back to current day. Even
though you could say we're in the sympathetic nervous system
(07:12):
fight flight, freezer, fond, we're looking at the stereotypical strong
black woman, the matriarch, the head of the household. Unfortunately
it was made out of this really traumatic event, but
it has also generationally pushed generations through, you know, so
it's gotten people into spaces that you're in. You know
that charisma. You told me a beautiful story about your grandma.
(07:33):
There was strength in that story, there was wisdom in
that story, but it could have come from something hurtful
that she experienced, that she saw and she said, don't
do that.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
It did you?
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Oh? I know that because our people have innately always
worked in a way of survival. But turning what was
horrible into beauty. I mean, that's soul, food, that's our hair,
that's our muse what other what else?
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Sports? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Well, let me let me let me ask you this then,
because in your area of expertise, and I've in the
past several years, there's been the rise of the influencer.
There's been the rise of the relationship guru expert as
an influencer. There's been a rise in the hyper masculine.
(08:33):
I wouldn't know what to call this, but influencer that
young boys who haven't quite found their way will latch
onto right. And you know, marriage as an institution has
been inundated with all of these different perspectives. And when
(08:54):
it comes to Black people having a let's call it
a unique human background, at least those of us on
this continent, all of this noise can be overwhelming confusings.
Maybe some of it's valid, maybe some of it isn't
(09:16):
you know, I don't know. I'm not married, and everyone
knows that famously. I'm not married, but you know, because
this is the world in which you work. You talked
about people going in a protection mode. You talked about,
you know, maybe talk to us a little bit about
some of the challenges that you see people facing nowadays,
(09:36):
especially black people, and you talked about like how we've
come to cope with certain things. So maybe some of
the challenges and maybe some of the healthier coping challenges
for folks who are either married or want to be married,
because I think that you can offer a lot of
(09:56):
people dealing with those particular issues some real inside.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Yeah. So marriages work, all.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Right, Okay, I'm I'm here with you.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Marriages work. Marriages it's a beautiful work if I had
to put it into a short sentence, But it's also
tricky work because you have that love feeling, that oxytocin
that hits your brain.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
That person is your everything.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Oh my gosh, I don't know how I made it
through life without this person, you know, And it's just intoxicating,
and that's how that's love. That's what it's supposed to
feel like, right, But the work comes in where when
you come down from that and this person is not
(10:52):
in the best mood, or they're going through a life transition,
which could be having a kid, kids going off to college,
work trouble, parents getting older, and now you're the adult
child parenting your parent. I have a lot of clients
going through that right now. Or you're realizing that your
parents aren't perfect and they don't know everything. That's people
have a hard time with that too. But so you're
(11:15):
over here, one of the partners in the marriage going
through whatever you're going through. This other partner is going
through what they're going through, and we have no key
tools for communication or forgiveness. That's the number one problem
I see. So to put that into a nutshell of
coping skills or what you should do number one when
(11:36):
we talk about marriage, or when we talk about just
even a couple, right two people saying I want to
be with you. I always tell folks, make sure you're
best friends. If you're not best friends, we need to
work on that first, because at the end of the day,
no matter what happens, you're going to look for your
(11:57):
best friend.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Over your lover because you get old.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Your body does different things. Life is happening, but you
know how to get through with your best friend. Your
best friend is your Bonnie and Clyde. You can move
the lever over here and say the vulnerable things to
your best friend that you may not always be able
to say to the lover. So become best friends.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
How do you do that?
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Number one Nujen He did structural family therapy. You have
two people. First of all, when two people come together,
you want two whole people. We are not having to
have people come together and hoping that the other person
creates their whole because it's going to.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Create communication problems.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
It's going to create insecurities, it's going to create what yes, codependency,
it's going to create way for just anything negative that
can essentially tear you guys apart, just because for times sake, right,
So we need to hold people. If you're not a
whole person, do what you need to do to become
a whole person.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Many ways go to therapy.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Some people find it in spirituality, some people find it
in their craft. Don't make your craft who you completely are.
Finally authentic you and what you love and figure out
how to do that. You know, but figure out who
you are first become whole. Then you join together as
a couple and figure out how you're going to make
this thing work, how you're going to kind of be
(13:23):
this yin and yang that evolves throughout time, because that's
the other thing. People change. So if you're not best
friends when I change, but you don't change, you might
not like me because you married me ten years ago
and now I'm someone completely different. But the difference is
if we're best friends, my core is still there, you
know what I'm saying. The second thing is I always
(13:44):
tell people to go to premarital, Go to premarital, go
to premerical. It is just so premeral counseling is literally
just a toolbook. You go through what you think about
child wearing, you go through how you want to handle finances,
you go through how to learn how to forgive.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Most of us aren't taught how to forgive. It sounds
so easy.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Yes, okay, real quick, while we're at premarital. Yes, is
that the phase where so I'm listening to talk if
in a completely different, separate, alternative universe, this was the
thing that I would consider. Yeah, one of the things, okay,
(14:26):
but one of the things that I know is really
really important and really special. I kind of get a
sense of it knowing you. I get a sense of it,
knowing like my teachers and my sisters, right that because
of the things that I've learned in my life, there's
(14:47):
a degree of care that is present when I interact
with black women. That is, you know, I treat women.
I like to think that I treat women well. With
black women, I kind of understand a little there's there's yeah, culturally,
(15:13):
it could be epigenetically speaking, it could be any number.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Of things, right probably, Yeah, you're probably you.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Talked about pre marital it's unders also while you're here,
maybe maybe talk about where kind of the understanding of
a person's family history, lineage, what traumas, that sort of
thing is it is it is? It? Does that come
into play at the pre marital stage when you're getting
to know that I do yes, okay, okay, go ahead,
(15:41):
So you.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Know pre marital it's this toolbook that you know, Prepare
and Rich is the company that created it, which I
think it's really good. They don't talk about the trauma,
but when people come to me, we talk about the trauma,
and I might say something like you need individual therapy
because this trauma might end up erupting into your marriage, right,
and for the audience, you know, trauma is an event
(16:06):
or it could be a number of events that your
brain categorize categorizes as a threat to you, just to
make that simple, just in case. Trauma is such a
buzzword right now, so I always want to make sure
that people understand what it is. And so your brain
marks it as something that can be a threat to you.
And anytime your nervous system senses that that threat is
coming towards you, whether it's smells, site, touch, taste, sound,
(16:30):
or even movement, your brain once again goes into fight
flight freezer fawn. You're not emotionally thinking, you're not critically thinking,
because your brain is just like, let's survive, okay. So
in a marriage, that can be deadly. That can kill
a marriage. So for example, if you have, you know,
a partner who's been unfortunately sexually assaulted or raped and
(16:54):
that was never processed in therapy, that could come into
the marriage and make both partners feel like that intimacy
level is never going to be met and for some
people in marriage, that's a problem.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Right. Or if you have.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Let's say, if we have a male coming into a
marriage and he never quite trusted his mother because his
mother had her own mental illness. So even though he
wants to love his wife, you can't quite love her
the way that she feels she should be loved because
he was never shown that love by a woman, and
his brain tells him, don't trust women even though you
like women.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (17:27):
So you get this. This is a part of the
premarital stage that people are able to learn about their partner.
So let me say this. Let me say it's why
you're premarital. That's very important to watch this So as
a black woman and dealing with in particular black couples
or couples where one of the people is black or
(17:47):
identifies as black, or whatever the case, whatever you do. Yes, sure,
so I think that you're a living testament. And you
can add to this if you want. We'll get back
to premarital book. But a person that is able to
come to you and talk to you in particular, I
think that there's there you have. I'm sure that you
(18:09):
would say that there's something special about a black person
talking to you, because you're able to talk to a
black person on their terms. And the reason I say
is because on the show, we've had conversations with medical
professionals where you know, black women, we deal with maternal
(18:30):
health care outcomes and things like that. If there's a
black doctor, doula, whatever in the room, the rate of
death for the mother drops like so much because somebody
will listen to them and speak to them on their
language and they feel comfortable communicating to the black person.
(18:52):
So I'm sure that this is your experience as well. Yes, okay,
so when you say this is my process, I know
what to look for. I think that you're living testament
to the fact that sometimes getting a culturally competent not
necessarily racially similar. But I think culturally competent is what
(19:13):
I'll say. But racially similar, I think you often enough
have cultural competence in that equation. But a culturally competent professional,
medical professional, health care professional, mental health professional, therapist, et cetera. Yeah,
will grease those gears a bit as you take your
(19:36):
This is step two here, you find your best friend.
That's step one. Step two is the premarital work. So
go ahead.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I mean, well, so there's so much we can talk about.
But yes, so when I do have kids. I don't
have kids yet, but I would love to have a
culturally competent I would prefer an African American, you know,
doctor in the room delivering my baby, just because I
feel like if you're in that ethnic group, like, let's
(20:03):
just we'll put racism to the side. But if you're
in that ethnic group, you've probably done more research on
your ethnic group.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Let's just be real.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah, So not only are they going to be more
educated on the black female body, but there's just a
sense of community and tribal awareness there in my opinion,
And it's the same thing with the doula or any
other birth worker. And by the way, in Arizona we
have the Black Birth Workers Forum if anybody's interested, and
(20:31):
they teach quarterly classes if you're expecting or going.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
To have a baby.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
I just always put that out there because resources are important.
But anyway, for me personally, I know that that would
be better for me because when we're talking about epigenetics,
I know that if I can't find somebody who I
feel like understands me or at least has some clear
educational background on how my body works, I'm going to
be in fight, flight, bond or freeze And what does
(20:59):
that mean for my baby? My baby can feel my
anxiety already.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
In the womb.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
So and that's so sad to think about, right that
my baby is already feeling that distress, and then I'm
pass I'm literally passing on cells to my baby of
that distress for a situation because I feel like maybe
a doctor doesn't care because I'm black, or maybe a
doctor has a research or just doesn't listen because he
doesn't feel like what I'm saying is valid.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
And what we're meaning by that.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Is there's actually a lot of studies that talk about
how when black people report their pain, it's discounted.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
So I could definitely report.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
My pain out of ten. Well, honestly, this happened to
my best friend. She literally was having a C section.
They were cutting her open. She's telling everybody around her,
literally telling everybody around her that she's feeling pain. Now,
let me pause for a moment. This is a educated woman.
Not only does she have a master's degree in therapy,
(21:56):
but she literally just graduated to be a psychiatric nurse practitioner.
So I think if we want to talk about qualifications,
this woman knows what pain feels like, you know.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
At the lowest level. She's educated.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Because we have to do all these qualifiers for black
people in America to say that what they're saying means something.
So I'm just putting that out there. Literally just happened
to her two years ago. They were cutting her open
and we're not listening. They told her, no, no, no,
you're just feeling pressure.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Well, I know the difference between pressure and pain.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
So I mean, my point is that that could have
affected her child. That child is living her in her women.
If we're talking about epigenetics now, she could have this
overly stressed or anxious or just very cautious child, and
we could scientifically point it back to that event.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
You know.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
So me who has never had these experiences, I have
not for children yet, but I know just listening to
my clients and my friends around me, I will be
a lot calmer with adula in the room. I will
have a doula or some type of birth worker or
some type of doctor.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Who has successfully delivered a lot of black babies.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Or is the color of my skin because just for
the emotional health of my body, because your body keeps
the score people. So I always say to folks, emotional
disease equals physical disease. Now that we have statistics on
so high blood pressure anxiety can equal high rock pressure,
(23:25):
stress can equal, especially in Black women, high rates of stroke,
heart disease, hypertension. So we know that there's a connection.
Emotional disease equals physical disease, and physical disease equals emotional disease.
We see high rates of black women having autoimmune diseases.
You track that back. Autoimmune diseases tract to stress. What
(23:48):
is the stress coming from living in America? I mean
in short, but you know what I'm saying. So to
your question, representation matters. And I have taken the premarital
curriculum from preparing Rich, which I think they did a
great job. But they don't have a cultural component. They
(24:08):
have a spiritual component, and then they have a regular,
non traditional component. They don't have a cultural component. So yes,
so when people come into my office, they're not going
to get just the cookie cutter eight session. Let's read
this workbook. They're going to get. No, let's talk about
how your dad, how you have seen your dad take
(24:31):
care of your mom? Because one of the parts is
how do you want to be loved? So each partner
gets to be asked how do they want to be loved?
What does love look like to you? Which is a
huge question because I'm going to assume that how I
like to be loved is the way you like to
be loved. Sure, unless somebody asks me the question.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
So what do we get from that?
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I have this mixed race couple and the male is
half black have Asian. And he says, well, I see
this for protection, So I do everything I can to
protect her. I stand in front of her when walking
on the sidewalk, I stand closest to the street.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
You know, things like.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
That, You ask her who she's Hispanic? Stay at home
mom didn't face much racism, but has an understanding because
of geographically where she grew up. Right, she will say,
you know, love looks like oh What'd she say?
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Him folding my clothes? And so for him, he's like
what And then.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
He countered with well, love looks like you. When I'm
driving home, I call you. You open up the garage and
you're standing in the garage and you're waving at me
and you're smiling.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
And she's like, do I look like you know? Like
I work too, But just in.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
That little nugget, you know, And this is an hour
and a half session. They never would have had that
conversation and he would have gone on protecting her. She
would have gone on calling him, calling it short man syndrome.
He would have gone on getting mad because he doesn't
understand her, and she would have gone on saying, well,
(26:04):
you don't understand me either. They would have ended up
in my office maybe eight years later for marital counseling. Wow,
but not marital counseling to stay together, because mind you,
most people wait eight years to go into marital therapy.
It'll be marital therapy to decide whether we're getting divorced.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
So that's why I say do.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Pre marital because even when you're dating and you spend
like every day with this person, and it's amazing, you're
not thinking about these questions. And historically, whose parents have
sat them down and been like, hey, have you ever
thought about where your love languages are, or how.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
You like to be loved or how you clearly set
boundaries or communicate your feelings.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
No, like nobody's doing that. Your parents are just saying.
For girls, your parents are saying, do not get with
someone who's gonna beat you. Don't get with someone who's manipulative.
Find somebody who's financially stable. I can't speak for men
like what their parents are telling them, but I'm just saying.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Like, don't be a girl.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Okay, So it's not much.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
So long story short, I saw a gap in our community,
and I accept all people. We are a community of love.
Black people are people of love. So I will teach anybody.
But my practice was created predominantly for African American people
to learn to be in a relationship, because that was
stripped from us. We were brought to this country to
(27:27):
work and be commodities. We weren't brought were not brought
to this country to be loved or to be in relationship.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
I would like to say something because this is another
thing that I say on my show quite a bit,
and it's funny because I was in La not too
long ago. I had a microphone in an audience and
was able to kind of share this if you hear
me say it. Of course it goes without saying, but
I think it echoes that sentiment that you shared right now,
(28:01):
that we weren't just born to fight and then die.
That's not fair. We deserve to like laugh and play
and to pick up our children and to ride bikes,
and we deserve all of these things because we are
(28:23):
valuable and precious too, and we if our whole story
is were born and then we struggle, and then we're
in our seventies and we're still struggling, and then we
die and we leave some extra struggle to our kids.
That is not fair. And so you know, I you know,
obviously we all have a role to play. This is
(28:44):
the activist warrior time in my life, and I'm living
in my truth, so no one will be able to
say I didn't I didn't stand it for my people.
I'm not given to cowardice, and so here I am.
But I love that you said that, because nobody is
(29:04):
nobody should just be forced to be one thing, but
nobody should be able to get away with not doing
the hard part. I don't think that. I think everybody
needs to show up and play their position.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Now.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Now, I don't want to hijack the conversation. You said
number one be best friends. You said number two premarital.
I'm assuming that's premarital therapy.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Yeah, and I really think we need to rename that anyway,
because you don't have to be getting married married in
order to do that yeah, yeah, maybe just I don't
know couples therapy to learn how to communicate, we need
a new name. But anybody can do it. I invite
anybody to do it because it's just relationship building. Everything
(29:57):
is a relationship. You know, you have a relationship with
this beautiful space. It's an extension of who you are.
It's authentic to who you are. There's a relationship between
you and the space. There's a relationship between you and
your son. There's a relationship between the clients that I meet.
I see relationship everywhere. So we as a people once again,
(30:20):
I'm talking about African American people who were brought our
ancestors were brought over to America.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
To work or be enslaved.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
We did not have the opportunity to learn relationship. We
have the opportunity to learn fact and we took it,
which is awesome. And so I just saw that as
a major, a common denominator of one of the missing
(30:51):
pieces in the fight, because it's hard to keep fighting
when trauma is being poked. When I was in grad school,
they did this illustration of trauma as a sunburn, right,
and so you get the first trauma and you're burnt up,
and then every single time you're reminded of that trauma,
(31:13):
someone's poking you.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
We're getting poked.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
But we haven't felt safe enough due to past experiments
and over diagnosing and a lot of things right, but
we haven't felt safe enough to really one be okay
with our feelings. My mom was like, I was taught
feelings were weak because my grandpa was from Mississippi, you know,
super Jim Crow situation, and for him, confidence is what
(31:39):
got him up and out and into his own business.
He didn't care what anybody else thought, you know. So
for her, feelings were weakness, and so for me going
to therapy school, everybody was like, what the hell feelings
are weakness?
Speaker 3 (31:51):
But go help those crazy people.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
And I'm like, actually, no, I'm not helping those crazy people.
I'm literally dismantling generational patterns. Because if you don't feel
your feelings, I always tell people stop, pause, think, put
in a coping skill, find a solution, because if you
don't feel your feelings, put in a coping skill, you
can't even critically think to find the real solution. So
(32:14):
I felt like for African American people, in order for
us to find the real solution, we can't allow our
bodies to continue to be traumatized.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Well, let me see if I can't stick the landing,
because I know that folks will want to hear it.
If you could give us one more piece of advice again,
the first one is be best friends, Yes, be best
The second one is we'll call it maintenance therapy.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Well, the first one is make sure your whole person.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Oh remember, okay, the whole.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Person't have two half people, So make sure a whole
you're a whole person.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
So so then let's go with that. Then okay, how
does that? How does that look? How do you make
sure you're a whole person? Because I'm sure anybody that
if you said that, if you said that to a person,
they would say, of course, I'm a whole person. But
what does that look like?
Speaker 2 (33:07):
How do I say this without all the therapy terms.
Being able to spend time by yourself, in your authenticity,
doing things that you love, without second guessing or worrying,
(33:33):
or feeling lost or feeling like you're not making enough
of a difference, or people pleasing or wishing somebody else
was there. It's the difference between loneliness and solitude. Can
you find solitude with just you, And some people would
(33:54):
say with god to I got you. But can you
find solitude with just being by yourself?
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Does that mean you know better than me? And I don't.
I'm hoping that I'm tracking with you, but I'm learning.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Does that mean like before you enter into a relationship,
you should I hope I don't mess this up. You
should like already like be proud of yourself. Yes, dig
(34:31):
get it? Yeah? All right, cool, all right, I'll go
with that.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Yeah. Essentially, I mean it's it's that key phase.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
In childhood right like uh, developmentally, I think it's like
the seventy eight nine ten where you're creating your own
identity outside of your parents, you know, and you're really
starting to learn what you love and who you are.
A lot of times when you get to high school,
that's stripped because people call it you're a nerd, or
(34:56):
you're stupid or this or that. I'm talking about that
little peer where you just authentically like yourself and are
okay with yourself before it's tarnished. If you don't have
that in adulthood, get it back, okay.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
So where we are then? Three pieces of advice from
a bona fide, marriage, therapist, counselor trauma, family, all the things,
all of it. Yes, number one, you see how I
got it. Number one, you will be best friends.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Number two, you will do maintenance or like therapy, maintenance
or what you refer to as pre marital.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
We'll call it premarital now, but we're gonna change them.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Okay, we'll change the name at some point. But the
concept is solid, this.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Concept of solid, and even in that you'll figure out
if your whole or not. It's going to challenge your
identity perfect.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
And then the third one, of course, is showing up
as a whole person. And for people that have a
problem with that language, it might be a little bit
too much for them because a lot of times people
the influencers say things like yeah, they say things and
it's hard to grasp onto it. It sounds good in
a thirty second video, but what does that really mean? Yeah,
(36:22):
And what I heard you say today just a few
minutes ago, was make sure that you are proud of yourself. Yes,
so that you can stand on your own and be
comfortable with your own thoughts and you're not given to
your own insecurities in the way that a person who
has not yet found that version of their story might
be or and maybe there's other ways to say it
(36:43):
that are more precise. Okay, as long as those youself.
So those three pieces of advice, Yes, and then we
will add to it, yeah to start, of course, but
we'll add to it, and you correct me if I'm wrong,
because of course you're the expert, will add to it.
That'd be mindful of the fact that there may be
(37:04):
a separate factor that you should account for in dealing
with a unique people with a unique experience, and there's
an you can make an epigenetic case for the fact
that it exists, even though you might just look at
(37:25):
it as you know, angry black Mama, or you might
look at it as like whatever fell in.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
You might look at it as someone who's loud or
over opinionated, or the opposite, someone who is very introverted
and timid, and maybe they.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Just observe because that's their survival stance.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Whatever you want to hear something. Really, it's a sad
story for me, a very sad story, because I once
upon a time I was engaged to be married and
my ex fiance she wanted my name, and she wanted
a baby and that, and so we got engaged and
before we before our wedding date, we became pregnant. But
(38:09):
you know, she had my ring. We lived together, everything
was fine. We were adults, so we had it. And
then one day she said to me that I believe
this was from postpartum depression. But she said that I
suffered from colored Man's complex. And I had never heard
that before, but I knew what she meant because I
didn't want the police to come to my house, okay,
(38:31):
And she was making a scene and I'm like, hey,
you got a chill because you know whatever? Yeah, and
she's like, whatever, you suffer from colored Man's complex. And
that to me was I mean, I've been hurt a
lot in my life, but that was that was. I'll
I think if I came back to life and lived again,
I would remember that I hurt me so bad, Like
I lost the peace of myself that day because I'm like,
(38:54):
oh my god, she's holding my son and now I
have to protect my son from his mom. And that's
what my brain told me, right. So the idea of
knowing who you are, standing in the middle of yourself,
be proud of yourself. The idea of do the work beforehand,
the idea of you know, find your best friend. You know,
these these concepts, and I appreciate the fact that you've
(39:18):
made them live in a way that is unlike the
influencers and people that just kind of do it for
the clicks. This feels like a little bit more valid.
There you go. But we've also accounted for the fact
that there's the traumas that people will often get made
fun of for, like I was made fun of for
in that moment where I didn't want the police to come.
(39:39):
Bearing in mind that there are special traumas, and not
just for black people, because all marginalized people have their
own traumas. But on this show, you and I am
sure are able to speak to these traumas specifically because
they're a little bit more part and parcel to our experience.
But I think that we end up having a little
bit more And this is really what I wanted to
capture from you today. So your final thoughts and then
(40:03):
we'll let you get back to life, back to reality.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Oh my gosh, we're on final thoughts and you just
dropped all that.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
That's the first time I'm ever sharing that stories. That's
always a very person and she and I were great,
you know, and I don't want anybody to worry.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
I just.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
So first off, we have to talk about that and
we'll keep it short. But I meet with a lot
of specifically Black women who are dating outside of the race.
I have a lot of sessions about this because there's
talks of when I get pregnant, can this man protect
(40:43):
me because they don't have this lived experience versus being
with the man who I guess we would say has
colorism complex, who completely understands the depth of the color
that is on.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Our skin and the skin of the baby.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
And the skin of the baby, and is going to
be very hyper vigilant and aware of everything that's happening.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
Right, So.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
It's kind of in retrospect to what you're saying, but
still the same thing that we have to work through
this trauma and in a sense nail down what are
their non negotiables for this partner, because it's different when
you're dating, when you start talking about kids in marriage,
It's like you understand that the paternal birth rate, the
maternal birth rate of Black women is super low because
of things that could be prevented. Right, So you as
(41:32):
this other person in the room has to be secure
in yourself to be able to acknowledge what could happen
in this room, and that I could literally die if
you don't speak up, which is a heavy weight for
someone who has never carried the weight of being black
in America or being any oppressed ethnic group. So on
(41:56):
that note, I just want to acknowledge that I particularly
don't want to call it a comp because when you
say complex, you're scapegoating the true issue, and the true
issue is is that when you call some when you
call the police to your house, or the police get
called to.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Your house, they're going to see a Hispanic woman and
a black man and she's.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Well, and they're most likely going to call it a
domestic dispute. That and someone has by loss, someone has
to get taken away, and the chances of being you
are much higher. So that's not a complex. That is
a reality. That's a live reality. And so for my clients,
I would keep repeating, there's nothing wrong with you. That's
(42:35):
a lived reality, because what people tend to do is
they want to scapegoat these things and make us feel
like we're crazy or something's wrong with us. When this
is my lived reality. So part of for you, you
putting that ring on her finger, And this is what
I tell my clients, for them, you accepting this ring,
and that person putting this ring on your finger means
(42:57):
that they're accepting that they're now living in you your reality.
So your reality is a black man in America, the
danger is much higher. So it supersedes her reality of
being a Latino woman. And so with that premieral couple
that I was telling you about, she's Hispanic, but she
is Caucasian presenting.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
He is not a Caucasian.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
He is half black, half Asian. So in our premierital session,
we talked about that because he had a lot of concerns.
He's like, kept saying, you're going to raise black kids.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
I am black. I don't care how light. He kept
telling her.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
That, I don't care how light you are to care.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Or how light they are, you know.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
So, I mean, but there's not a lot of talks
about this, or there's not a lot of conversations about
this yet. But once again, that's your lived reality. So
if she puts that ring on, and that's what I
had to tell her in a very nice way, Like
we've both report and everything, but you put that ring on, babe.
So now you are saying I'm fully a part of
this community. You're also recognizing your privilege and understanding that
(44:00):
you're walking into a community that doesn't have the privilege
that you have. So now you wear this hat of
an ally and you have to be able to stand
on that privilege. But you can't stand on that privilege
if you're not a whole person. So have you done
the work? So if she was in therapy, oh thank
god he's in therapy.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
They're doing the work.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
But do you see what I'm saying, Like it all
kind of ties together with what we're talking about his epigenetics.
To tie it all together is telling him, well, I'm
in love with this woman who's white presenting. She's not
white presenting, and she gets it. But she's got to
understand that her privilege outweighs my privilege, even though I'm
a man in America. So if it goes down, she
is going to have to stand ten toes down and
(44:40):
defend all of us, our kids. Ever, you know what
I'm saying, there's a weight to it, and so can
you carry that weight? Most people can if you're not
a whole person, because we who are born into this
have trouble carrying this weight. So does that make sense?
So you go to primarital so you can have these conversations.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
So I can't ask.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
You can you care to that?
Speaker 2 (45:05):
And so I can also say, just woman to woman,
don't say that sure, and we can have this conversation
about okay, ramseys, why did that hurt you so bad?
And then we can and then she can hear that
and there's a woman who loves you. It breaks her
down because it was it was this weakness in her
that said that. So then we go and work on
(45:26):
the weakness and then whatever's missing that made her say that,
we build that in the relationship because the best friend
doesn't want to hurt you. It's the lover that hurt you,
not the best friend. You know, your stuff, but epigenetics
in her she said that because of something that happened
to her. Right, yeah, it's so trauma that's passed down
that she went for the jugular. You don't go to
(45:47):
the jugular for no reason. That was a stress, that
was a threat response, that was a fight response. She
fought with her mouth.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
Why premarital?
Speaker 2 (45:56):
We will figure it out my primaral not prim but anyway,
so it all matters. So be a whole person, be
best friends, and do the work. The work is some
type of therapy, some type of class on communication, premierital
with me, whatever, if you wanted to last. Don't spend
all this money, don't spend all this time with this
person and not do the groundwork. We're building a house
(46:17):
with a foundation. We're not building a house on a
hill and waiting for it to top in five years,
especially when kids are involved.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Boom, all right, well words Live by Ashley Taylor Barber.
Once again, thank you for coming on the show. I
want to make sure I state this again. She is
an independently independently licensed marriage and family therapist, relationship expert,
a keynote speaker, and of course the CEO slash owner
(46:47):
of the therapy and consulting practice Favor and Grace under Fire.
Do us a favor, leave any social media because I'm
sure people have questions. People might want to, you know,
ask how to get a hold of your services, anything
like that.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
Yeah, So Ashley in favor is it's all of my
social media handles or you can just google me Ashley Taylor.
Everything will come up my website. I have great therapists.
They've been trained with me by me, so they would
love to meet with you on our couch. If not,
you can find me at the Black Therapist an AZ
event in July July twelfth. More information coming, but yeah.
(47:24):
Social media Ashley in Favor and then my website Favor
and Grace centerfire dot com.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
It's long, but it was God given, so I used it.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Amen, Google me Ashley Taylor Barber.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
That's Ashley A s h l e A.
Speaker 3 (47:37):
Oh thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
Yes, yep. My mom wanted me to be special, so
a at the end instead of a. Wy.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
All right, well, well, thank you so much for your
time with appre suing me.
Speaker 3 (47:46):
This was great.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
This has been a production of the Black Information Network.
Today's show is produced by Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts
you'd like to share? Use the red microphone talkback feature
on the iHeartRadio app. While you're there, be sure to
hit subscribing. Download all of our episodes. I am your host,
ramses Jah on all social media. Join us tomorrow as
we share our news with our voice from our perspective
(48:08):
right here on the Black Information Network Daily Podcast
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