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June 18, 2024 26 mins

John Hope Bryant returns on today's podcast for part two of his three part discussion on financial literacy and the Black community.

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We are here today with John Hope Bryant discussing his
new best selling book, Financial Literacy for All and easy
to read First Step towards a Fulfilling Financial Future, Part
two of three. Okay, I mentioned earlier in our conversation
and I heard you say just now. But I mentioned
earlier that I caught some of your Breakfast Club interview,

and you know I heard you mentioned now this idea
of becoming capitalists. Now, I want you to know that
I know what you mean. I do in my activism work,

I find that I am often very critical of a
capitalistic model for society, but I always see that that
has won out in terms of the great ideas for
how to frame a society, and that that's the game
that we're all playing for better or worse, like it
or not, and you cannot change anything unless you beat

the game, right. So I want you to know that
because I don't want to be disingenuous, uh when when
asking this question, But I I want you to explain
what it is that you mean when you say become capitalists,
because you would imagine that folks just by being born
in the United States of America are playing the game

and therefore are capitalists. So what do you mean when
you say we need to become capitalists.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
I'm going one step further. We need to become black capitalists. Okay, speak,
I've already I've already filed for the for the trademark protection.
Good on you people, doesn't matter. I'm dead serious, man,
I'm like, uh, look, you you have every reason to
be questioning, upset, frustrated with the system that is only

not just pressed, oh press. Literally capitalism was used to
own us. That's what slavery was. Slavery was bad capitalism.
And I remind the listeners as we have this conversation again,
this is one of the most interesting interviews I've done
because you're really smart. You're going directions that people don't

normally go. I love challenges, by the way. I love
people who push me.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
Thank you for that. That means a lot coming from you, man.
I look up to you a lot, especially after our
last conversation. But please continue.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
I love smart people and smart conversations. Don't go easy
on me. Ever, The truth will hold out, period and
I don't need those. This is all just me coming
at you. I don't know what you're about to say.
This is beautiful and important because people need to realize
as we're having this conversation that Lucifer the Devil is

a fallen angel. So God gives Lucifer permission to exist,
which means badness has failed. Goodness That means darkness comes
from light. That that means that the evening has no

definition without the day the light which and so so
fear and hate has no definition without love and hope.
And so there is bad capitalism, but it comes from
good capitalism. We're good people who learn bad, right, So

I gave you an example of bad capitalism. I just
we just talked about slavery. There's all kinds of examples
of bad capitalism, but buth, bad capitalism is where I
benefit and you benefit. And sorry, I benefit and you
pay a price for it. I want to make this realist. Okay,
good capitalism is where I benefit and you benefit more.

So you have a fro. My guess is that don't
work really well every day and then you get through it.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
With a comb yep, I got too, all.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
Right, So put that aside. My guess is you need
some conditioner.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
I got some.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
I guess is at least once a week you need
to wash it absolutely right now, then maybe other thing,
maybe a wave cap. I don't know, some kind of
thing you used to but anyway, bony okay, So we
named four things, right government to get those to you,
an entrepreneur, an inventor created each one of those things.
Maybe by the way on the cone, it might be

two or three inventions, the handle and then the brush
and both, but let's just make it simple. Inventor created
the brush, the cone, the bonnet, the conditioner, the shampoo,
and I mentioned one other thing. I here remember what
it is, but anyway, to get the point, and an
entrepreneur took those inventions and turned it into a product.

And the product is a entrepreneurial endeavor was designed to
solve a problem that you're willing to pay enough for
because of the solution was worth more than the value
that you paid for. Now, the job of a negotiating
table is the capitalist is trying to extract as much
money from you as they can for delivering the least value,

and as the consumer, you're trying to get the value
for the least money with the most value to you.
That's the day. And if you're not financially literate, all
the powers on the side of the capitalists or the
entrepreneur or the producer of the product that was. By
the way, sharecropping happened, which happened after slavery, which in

some ways is more damaging than slavery. My granddad was
a sharecropper, RB Smith and one in eighteen seventy one, Mississippy.
So capitalism and democracy are horrible systems except for every
other set them.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
Hm hm.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
Does this?

Speaker 1 (06:03):
Does this mean, if I may, you're qualifying certain types
of capitalism. In other words, let's go capitalism and principle
and theory can uplift an entire society. Everyone has the
shot and everyone can make something happen. And it's when
the capitalism is unfettered capitalism, when the capitalism is crony capitalism.

I know this is a softball question, but I'm just
trying to get your thoughts. Is the qualifier here.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
Oh, big of the hardball check and none of the wrong
with check cashing? Okay, check cashing came out of grocery
stores trying to write convenience checks. Cash check. You go
in there with you with Our mothers would go in
with their cash, their paycheck didn't have any cash there
was no ATM machines back then, and they were getting
some groceries, and the grocery would say, look, you know

up minus and groceries, I'll give you the change back.
Check cashing. That's where it came from. Now the folks
pimping us. It's called a check casher, and they charge
you one, two three percent. After a while, the grocery
is like, well, heck, I'm making two one cashing this check. Uh.
But but these the groceries on the on the on
the shelf, I'm only making three percent on the groceries.

I gotta buy inventory. I gotta I gotta pay for spoilage.
I gotta paper for people stealing knock, I got the employees. No, no, no,
how about I just cast checks and then well, gee
can I So then you're cashing a government check with
no risk on it whatsoever, and you're still charging somebody
one two, three, four five percent. Well that's bad capitalism. Yeah,

payday lending, the lit romo a payday loan. But it's
been abused. You know, you eat all these things on
you know, alcohol on balance lowers your blood pressure, I
mean whine. But alcohol isn't you know the ings dreaming,
drug game, texting shop, being sleeping, all these Ing's covered

this a little bit on the on the show you
talked about you know, you just go too far and
there's a depressed person by the way. It does too
far and they become abusive. So yes, you you know,
you gave me a softball question, but I want to
push it, like why is John Bryant not pushing socialism

Because even if you want to destred any money like
a socialist, you first have to collect it like a capitalist.
That's not a successful capitalist. Sorry, there's not a successful
socialist model for the masses in the world. Listen to
you go to the Nordic countries, Norway, that's really capitalism.

That they're in the forestry industry, they're in the oil industry,
they're in tech industry. Right. What they've done is take
an attack system, put it on top of the capitalist.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
System, and that robust socialist programs.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, and so yes, you don't have any poor people
on the streets in Norway. And I know the Crown
Prince of Norway, I used to I've been there a
dozen times or more. Where I love Norway, I love Sweden. Whatever, Okay,
you have so there's no poor people on the streets
I'm making I'm being a little dramatic here. There probably is,
but you don't see any poor people in Sweden. You
won't see any poor people. In Norway. You don't see
any poor people. Okay, so people that are Finland, John,

we got you. You also don't see any rich people
who are black. You don't see any black CEOs, you
don't see any black and brown entrepreneurs. So yeah, we don't.
We don't fall through the cracks at the bottom, but
you don't rise to the top either, because it's a
class based system. So in America, yeah, I could. I

was homeless, but I'm also now the CEO of four
hundred employees because I understood, and I have a mint
networth of a minx sorry networth. I'm not gonna tell
my network, but I have a pair of of a
million and a half dollars every two weeks, and I
do it without thinking about it. So I've gone from
the bottom to the top using good capitalism, and I

am the I'm philanthropists. We've invested four point five billion
dollars at Operation Hope, me and other people's money. Most
of the other people's money into begrating homeowners, law, business owners,
blah blah blah. We've already talked about examples of that.
We are. We're doing good and doing well at the
same time. That's my business model, is doing well and
doing good. For John O'Brien Holdings, I have five divisions

of Opery Sopis is just one of them. So can
we have more good capitalists? Rockefeller, you know, was this
hardcore capitalist. But now you have Rockefeller Foundation and Rockefeller Philanthropies,
and you've got Rockefeller Capital Management, and you've got the
descendants of Rockefeller, four hundred of them who also have

their own philanthropies. And they had the spirit of doing
well and doing good. Not perfect, but there's all perfect.
You've got the Ford Foundation, I mean Henry Ford. I
know that Henry Ford the thirties on my board, Henry Ford.
Not it appears the nicest guy, anti Semitic, actually it appears.
But you know, created the middle classes.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
We know it.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
Creative Founder is a forge foundation. So out of bad
can come good. Come out of good can come a
lot of good. Look at Oprah Winfree and how she
gives back. Look at if you look at the Robert
Smith and how he gives back if he broke. You
can't give nobody anything except some bad advice, right, I
said that you hang around nine broke people. Yeah, let

me drop the real night. I'm not talking about Norway
and Finland all stuffing. What's the second largest economy in
the world China, China, which says that they are not
just socialists, they say they're communists b s. China is
a capitalist free and as not freedom right's free market

country with a repressive uh system of government that they
call communism. On top of it, communist supposed to meet everybody,
that the community, everybody owns common assets. They are no
common assets. And in China you got billionaires, billionaires, billionaires,
and most of them are in the government, right, and

now they've exported it. So they took the Western model
of capitalism and then control put it on top of control.
Do you know that they're more Do you know the
budget for internal security in China is double with their
budget for external military?

Speaker 1 (12:25):
Really? Uh huh?

Speaker 2 (12:27):
Do you know there are two hundred thousand riots some
civil disobedience in China last year alone. We got so
few riots in America we can name them Rodney King.
You know Ferguson, Missouri. Over thirty years, we can name them.
Go back forty in Watts Riots, fifty years again they
have two hundred thousand a year. People are pissed off, upset, frustrated.

They control them. And one of the ways that they
take off the pressure of control is we're gonna give
you some money. We used some economic opportunity. Well that
that that bets off now because they have the biggest
real estate bubble in the world. They build building ghost
cities in China and their economy is now faltering against
below six percent GDP gross domestic growth gross DOMESIC, Yeah,

gross domestic product GDP, and they start having problems at home,
which is what's happening now is going to get worse now?
What what I've never said this on any podcasts. Who
else is China pipped Africa? Oh yeah, so uh so Africa.
What's the number one group marrying black African women in

fifty four countries on Africa continent? Chinese men and these people, Yeah,
you think they love black people? Really? You think Chinese?
You think the Chinese cult. I have a lot of
Chinese friends. I'm not talking about Chinese. I don't not
tell I'm not hurting Chinese people. I'm not about the
Chinese government is has approach and they've been educating folks

in a way that doesn't give the best impression of
African Americans. I'll just say that nicely. So why are
they all marrying black African women? Want to beyond the
fact that once you go black, you never go back.
Why are they Marian sisters in Africa? Because Africa the
low is the largest reservoir of natural resources in the world.
What is the Chinese business model? Low cost production? What

do you need to lock in costs for materials and
minerals that don't fluctuate. So if you and me have
a business deal and I say something to you that
is offensive to you, I say, we all should be
capitalist all John, I like you, but not now we're done.
We have a business deal that business deals off. But

if I marry your system.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
That business we figure it out, Figure it out, figure
it out.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
That's China. That China is locking in their long term
economic interests on the African continent by marrying our sisters.
Sitting I'm simplifying this because there's much more to it.
They're investing there are investing. Sorry, they're lending at unconventional
terms to African governments. I've never said this on any
interview ever, but I'm telling you right now, the Mibian

government has a port. I went and I went to it.
The only country in the world where the ocean and
the and the sand meet desert me. I was so
happy I'm there. I was Ambassador Andrew Young and the
Minister of the Nibia is so proud. We've got this
beautiful port. Well, how'd you build that? I'm I'm asking,
I asked, you know, interesting uninteresting questions. How'd you build that? Who? Well,
we financed it with the African Development Bank seventy percent loan. Oh,

African Development game. Wow? Okay? And then where the equity
come from? China? China, China's Development Bank? Oh okay. But
why do I only see Chinese workers in there? Was
there a backstop to the African Development Bank loan? Well, yeah,
the China Development Bank. So China put up the debt
and the equity. Here's financial literacy. They put up the

debt and the equity.

Speaker 1 (16:00):

Speaker 2 (16:00):
And then they convinced the government, convinced the government uh
to uh defer all labor laws to to to to
suspend all labor laws in the country, which means you
need to hire Namibians. And they brought Chinese workers to
build the port. So wait a minute, hold on. It
was financed by the Chinese, it was given equity by

the Chinese. It was built by the Chinese, which was
mean they paid their own people, probably used Chinese material
in Chinese steel, in Chinese boats, and you get the picture.
And that is the way all of your economic activity
flows from the world to Namibia. What happens when you
default on that debt and you will Hello, China owns

you lock, stock and barrel. And that's happening all over Africa.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
We are here today with John Hope Briant discussing his
new best selling book, Financial Literacy for All and easy
to read First Step towards a Fulfilling Financial Future. That's
what I was about to say. That's this is not new,
because this is something that France has done, Portugal has done,
There's lots of examples of this. It's I believe that

China is kind of the latest and most modern incarnation
of that. And one of the things that I feel,
you know, and I would not profess to know, you know,
more than you. I just kind of am familiar with
this phenomenon and how governments exact control over governments or

proxy governments in Africa inside of Africa, and therefore are
able to build the machinery or the mechanisms to extract
resources fiscal, you know, mineral or otherwise. But one of
the things that I feel like the African governments on
the ground say is that, well, we this is the

only way that we can get this infrastructure, and we
need this infrastructure. And so they're kind of in a
tough spot. What would you say to just while we're here,
What would you say two folks who say that, because
I think about it the same way that you do.
This is horrible to see more getting taken from Africa
when historically, for since the fifteen hundreds, Africa has been

just robbed of people and resource, you know what I mean.
So what do you say or what would you say
if someone says, well, we do need this infrastructure, we
need these roads, we need you know, this development.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
You know, I wrote this business plan for America and
I say, and I did the interview on it with Charlemage,
I said, black folks tend to be too emotional about
a lot of issues like well, you know what we
feel and what we vibe and whatever, maybe not maybe
devoid of the facts of the matter. We hang around
who we like, whether they're bums or not, or whether

Pooky and them got a job or not, or whatever
that they and we get the narratives in our head.
We stick with them because it's comfort food or whatever,
because we're depressed, in my opinion. And then white folks
are too narrow Sorry, some white folks are too narrow
minded in their view of the world and become very transactional.

That's Africa, So African Americans. African Africans were faced with
an aggressive investor who had an agenda, who knew more.
Remember that negotiating table I gave you told you of capitalism,
where you have the capitalists and the consumer. And if

you're not equally yoked, the capitalists going to eat the
consumer's lunch. That's what's happening in Africa. They weren't equally yoked.
The government of Africa. African countries did not have the
same financial literacy, the same insights, the same information, the
same intel as the aggressor. The capitalists who came bearing gifts.
Quote unquote and got their lunch eating. Now, was that

the only lunch available? It was the only lunch readily available. Yes,
because America, the US government and American investors in Western
investors were short sighted, maybe even stupid about not investing
in Africa investing in Africa. Yes, very short sighted and
it's to our detriment. Now, should our African brothers and sisters,

given that we have the internet, given that it is
that you know, you are the president of whatever African country?
Should they have reached out more aggressively to build to say,
I have a bid from China Development Bank, or have
a bid from whatever Russia you know? Hey, you know
aid US AID in America. Hello, US Department of Commerce,

Hello the US Secretary Treasury. I'd like to give America
a chance to meet this bid before I take this
offer over here. They probab would have got a better
deal in my opinion, that they had created a little
competitive energy. But I said to you earlier, when you
hang around nine broke people, you'll be the tenth. If
you don't know better, you don't do better. If you
don't know three capitalists, then you take the only deal

that's in front of you. Might you know. So it's uh.
I don't begrudge folks for taking China's offers seriously, but
we should have understood that nothing is free. Yeah, they're
not our friends. Business is not personal. And you said it.
This happened before China was Germany and France and the

you know, they're about the folks at Dutch, Dutch, Dutch,
and this is Spain. This was Spain. By the way,
before anybody watching this and listening to this thinks that
I'm just jamming up externals. We need to understand that
there are bums in our own family, and there are
I mean everybody. I got bombs in my family. I

got people I think I won't let my nephews right,
my nieces right. They black So Africans were traded in slavery, yes,
by Europeans, but by Arabs also, and by Indians also,
by blacks, black, black Africans. How do you think that

people got from the middle of the country to the
to the to the coast, right, But then did they
know they're slave trading us into slavery. No, they didn't
even know that. They didn't even know what was beyond
the oceans. They weren't thinking about that. They were thinking
we were in a tribal warfare between one tribe and another.
We captured your folks, we didn't like you, and when
somebody came Barren Gold and Mirth or whatever it was,

we happily and they wanted you, and we didn't want you.
We're happy to sell you off to them for what
we thought was valuable. We didn't know they were then
taking you and put you on a ship and.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
Sending you to America slave class of people that look
just like you.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah, I guess, so, yeah, So that's what I'm saying.
I'm gonna come back to you know what I said
in an earlier interview about you know, gentrification in the
hood in south central La. Oh, you know, this is
the big boogeyman. By the way, my man Doug was
intentionally provoking me, so I'm not messing with him here.
I understand what he was dal. He was also smart interview. Oh,

the big boogeyman, the institution, the big you know, these
big dollar people trying to come in and take our community. No, no, no,
no no. They saw an opportunity centrally located real estate
near the ports, near transportation, near jobs in Los Angeles
and we sold it to move with nothing, and they there.

You go to the table again, the capitalists and the consumer.
One has more information than the other. One sees value
and the other doesn't. We didn't have to sell it.
We didn't have to sell it. We could have said no,
we're not selling nothing. We doubled them down. Let me
tell you something. Inner city France is called Paris. Inner
city UK is called London. Inner city. You know instant

I mean the Turkey is called instantbul that's invaluable real estate.
And so is South Central, LA. And so is Detroit,
and so is you know, fill in the blank, Atlanta
Central or wherever. And we we are in these places.

Wh we should double down. Buy the block, buy it, rehabit,
rent it, or own it, and don't sell it and
watch the value grow. Don't get mad at somebody, copy them,
partner with them. I have a joint venture strategy. I
love joint ventures. I don't join venture with anybody who's
not bigger and better than me. Why what so my

joint venture partners are I can't name one of them.
And I'm working on it with a huge accounting firm,
a company gout CIM group. I'm just joined entered a
joint venture with thirty one billion dollar asset base. I
join venture with Tony Rushler worth ten billion dollars. I
joint venture with Mike Braghedty worth a billion dollars, of
joint venture with Sean Horowitz, worth a billion dollars of
joint venture with Alliant Capital, of joint ventured with This

is my private life of joint ventured with Well you
get the point twenty five Madison KKR. If you're not
bigger than me in that area, why am I messing
with you? And in operation of Hope, I partnered with
Bank of America, who else Floridigo, Yes, black banks too right,
but to bring folks, to bring resources that I direct

through my culture to my community, to set my people
free with the same tools that have oppressed them.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
This concludes Part two of three with John Hope Bryant
discussing his new best selling book, Financial Literacy for All
and easy to read First Step toward a fulfilling financial future.
Check back in with us for the final installment right
here on the Black Information Network Daily Podcast
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