May 20, 2025 • 51 mins
Today's guest is Dr. David J. Johns, CEO of the National Black Justice Collective.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The State of the People Tour is a nationwide movement
rallying black communities to restore, reimagine, and reclaim power through
strategic action and collective organizing. Visiting ten major cities across
the country, it aims to activate a grassroots movement that
amplifies black voices, demands systemic change, and advances a national
collective black agenda rooted injustice and liberation, building toward the
(00:23):
State of the People International Assembly on Juneteenth. One of
the leaders of the State of the People Tour, doctor
David J. Johns, serves as the CEO and Executive director
of the National Black Justice Collective, and he is our
guest today.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
This is the Black.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Information Network Daily Podcast and I'm your host, Ramses Job.
All right, doctor David J. Johns, Welcome to the show.
It is a pleasure to have you on. We've heard
a little bit about you and I'm excited to learn more.
So we start our stories at the beginning to us
at favor. I've obviously given you a brief introduction, but
you know, for folks that are just coming to this conversation,
(01:02):
just you know, finding out who you are and what
it is that you do. Give us a little bit
of background on sort of your story and sort of
what led you to, you know, the position as the
CEO and executive director of the National Black Justice Collective.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yeah, I appreciate that invitation and for you making space
for us to talk about the state of the people
work more generally for black people. You can call me David.
What I tend to say is that white people are
obligated to call me doctor. That's my person, but Black people,
especially those who do be before the degree confirment, please
(01:34):
call me David. Most folks who know me know that
I care deeply about our babies, as I call them.
I'm an educator by training and calling. My research is
on the experiences of black students who are assumed to
be or identify as lesbian, gay by special transgender in
(01:56):
public middle and high schools. I taught elementary school before
spend nearly a decade crafting federal policy. I worked first
as a CBCF Congression of Black Caucus fellow for Charles
Rango when he was Chair of the Ways and Means Committee.
I then spent nearly nine years as a senior policy
advisor to the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions.
(02:18):
That committee sees on average forty percent of legislation introduced
in the Senate. It was chaired by Senator Ted Kennedy
until he died after working with President Barack Usain Obama
to pass what became known as the Affordable Care Act
or Obamacare. Thereafter, I worked for Tom Harkin, a Senator
from the great state of Iowa, which they called God's Country.
(02:42):
I learned a lot about that and then longer story short,
when the Tea Party rose in sentiment and it was
no longer possible to pass bipartisan legislation, I took a
pay cut from that job to help get President Obama
reelected before being appointed to lead a White House initiative
on educational excellence for African Americans.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
That initiative was recently.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Destroyed by the current occupant of the Oval Office, but
allowed me to work at one of the highest offices
in the land as a public servant to help highlight
opportunities for us to support learning and development opportunities for
all students. And now I lead a civil rights organization,
a more than twenty year old civil rights organization that
sits at the intersections of racial equity and LGBTQ a
(03:24):
plus equality for folks who have pronoun or language fatigue.
We understand the teachings of Fannie lou Hamer who said
that none of us are free and a lesson until
all of us are free, and all of our work
is freedom driven work, and that includes the work we're
doing with the State of the People's Tour.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
No.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I want to make sure I get this right. Fanny
lou Hamer is. I'm mentally on placing her with the NCNW.
Is their connection there.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
That's exactly right. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
And among the things that Fanny lou Hamer did as
an a voting rights, women's rights activists, a community organizer,
and a vice chair of the Freedom Democratic Party was
to center intersectionality. And one of the things that she's
known for reminding us is that none of us are
free and a lesson to tell all of us are free.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Sure, sure, sure, So now I'm a lot more grateful
for the history lesson that I got. Q and I
we were fortunate enough to go and spend some time
at the n CNW National Convention in Baltimore. I believe
it was I'm Bradley, Yeah, yes, and doctor Bradley was
was giving us a little bit of a background on
the organization because they're not as.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
We don't celebrate we don't celebrate black women as often
as we should, as we should.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
That's fair, but also the organization is just well established
in that part of the country and on this part
of the country less so, and so you know, we
don't get a chance to interact as much, and so
it's interesting to see how far that influence has gone.
And the truth of the matter is that you know,
you you you've spoken about the intersectionality of LGBTQ ia
(05:03):
plus i'd imagine communities, black people and politics, and that's
an intersection that we've been forced to pay very close
attention to, particularly since twenty twenty because you know, just
for our listeners know this, but you know, for the
sake of the conversation, we took leadership. We took direction
from a lot of mostly they were lesbian women that
(05:28):
were out on the street, you know, in twenty twenty,
organizing protests and all that sort of stuff. And we
learned that there was a discrepancy in these voices and
the influence that they should wield. And we saw how
effective that leadership was, and we you know, counted ourselves
among you know, allies and those people that would you know,
help create a future that would center and highlight those
(05:50):
voices and that type of leadership. Because from where we sat,
it was effective, it was necessary, and it filled in
a lot of gaps that even we had, you know,
as people that didn't consider ourselves biased and all that
sort of stuff, there's still gaps and lessons that we
needed to learn. And so you know, I salute you
for the work that you're doing. That's that's fantastic. And
you know, the more people I think that pick up
(06:10):
causes like that, I think, the stronger that we're going
to be as a people and as a country. So
so again I salute you for that. Now let's shift
gears a bit here, because you know, the order of
the day is the State of the People Tour, and
you know, we've kind of talked about it a bit,
and of course, you know, Joey was on the show.
Joanne Reid was on the show recently and she kind
of mentioned it. But you know, for our listeners, let's
(06:32):
give the listeners a bit more detail. Take us inside
of one of the meetings and kind of the goings
on of one of the tour stops for the State
of the People tour.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Yeah, I'm really excited to do that after having spent
the last two days in Richmond, Virginia, our most recent
State of the.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
People Power tour stop.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
And if you're excited by this conversation, I encourage you
to go to State of Theepeople pp L dot com
and get information about.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
Where we will be this week with is Detroit.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
But the activities in Richmond occurred over the course of
two days. We started with a community gathering at a
place called The Land, which is in a downtown historic
district where this is actually appropriate thinking about the upcoming
anniversary of the Tulsa massacre, where a block that was
(07:21):
a site of a development powered by black folks was
destroyed by a white racial mob. This the land that
we occupied yesterday in Jackson Hole, Virginia, was the site
of hundreds of businesses that were powered by black folks
(07:42):
that were similarly destroyed, and so we reclaimed that space
again honoring the importance of celebrating that the most important
power that exists in a democratic experiment like ours is
people power. Virginia was important because nearly one in four
black folks throughout the United States can directly trace their
(08:03):
lineage through the state of Virginia and its slave portals.
And we talked about the work that members of their
community continue to do to ensure that everyone in Virginia,
in particular black folks, have access to the resources they need,
including elected leaders who are working on their behalf. And
(08:26):
then yesterday we had a day of programming that included
workshops centering the needs of business leaders, black men, talking
about the importance of mental health of sisters, talking about
in very much reference to fannielu Hammer, leading not only
families but communities in defending democracy. There was a rally
(08:48):
where a combination of local leaders kicked off by a
beautiful five year old, a young girl who said that
she loved black people and she also loved running track
national rally to talk about again the imports of restoring
the rights of brothers and siblings who've been incarcerated, of
(09:09):
ensuring that we engaged in the civics process locally, because
state referendums in Georgia. In Georgia, excuse me, that's where
we started things off in Atlanta, Georgia, but in Richmond, Virginia,
and the state of Virginia state referendums have to be
passed in two legislative sessions, and so all of that
was all of that rather happened while vendors showed up
(09:31):
and talked about resources they are providing to the community.
Folks did line dances that were boots on the ground
literally and figuratively, and it was the most recent reflection
of what Angela Rai, our co quarterback with sister Joyanne Reid,
calls our love letter to the black community. I'm really
(09:54):
honored to lead the State of the People Black Paper
Research Project.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Every Well, I was going to ask for you to
go into detail about that because that's another thing that
I wanted to know more about, So please continue.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
So the Black Paper Project was born out of an
early conversation we had where we reflected on the African
American Political Convention which happened in Gary, Indiana in March
of seventy two, if my memory serves me well, in
this moment, and we pulled up the policy agenda that
was produced out of that convening, where there were national
(10:31):
delegates from every state who participated in this process, and
I was frustrated by the fact that almost every demand
that existed in seventy two are demands that we are
still actively fighting for, including DC statehood. Where I am
having this conversation from where I'm calling in from, and
(10:51):
so Angela, Ryan and I had a conversation, and I
was voluntold. Anyone who knows Angela knows what it means
to be volunteld to show service, and so I was
volunteld to help lead this black paper project. Folks are
familiar often with what are traditionally called white papers we
sent to blackness and everything that we do, and so
(11:13):
at the end of this process we will have published
nearly are more than thirty black papers on a range
of policy issues. We are not speaking to traditional policy
audiences or our friends who lead important think tanks. I've
often talked to people about writing for my mother, who
(11:35):
understands and for a long time has understood that I
do important work. But well before I was appointed to
work for President Obama, she would tell our family and
our friendsident I work for President Obama. It's for folks
who know, as Brian Stevenson says, that systems work as
designed and that in this moment, there are people who
are wielding power to further and rich really wealthy, often
(11:59):
white oligarchs, at the cost and consequence of often Black
people losing sometimes our lives. Which I know sometimes might
feel like hyperbole, but when we think about the impending
cuts to medicaid and medicare a lot of the losses
of federal employment, which one in every four federal employees
(12:22):
are black. When we think about the cuts, the things
like frame reduced price lunch, or education more generally, or
healthcare services, I'm thinking about the terroristic bombing of a.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Reproductive justice system.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
These are all things that will continue to make it
harder for black people to not just survive, but to thrive.
And so every tour stop we release a set of
black papers. In Detroit, we are excited to release two
black papers, one on entrepreneurship that will include a panel
discussion that I'm honored to lead with Natalie Kofi, a
(13:00):
leader in the space, Arian Simone, a CEO and founder
of the Fearless Fund, Melissa Butler, I'm CEO and founder
of the lip Bar. And we'll also release a paper
on transportation and infrastructure. And so the goal is to
ensure that there are connections between what's going on in
the local community with the black papers and provide the
community with resources to connect some of these really important
(13:22):
policy dots.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Now, now this the State of the People Tour.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
It culminates in in it like a finale of sorts
of if I'm not mistaken, this takes place on Juneteenth, right.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
That's correct?
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Okay, So yeah, what what what should people expect from that?
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Yeah? So the tour, the tenth tour stop is in.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I would argue the best state, not because of the
politics I have challenges with Governor Gavin Dusom, but because
I'm a son of California. But we're concluding in Outa Dina,
which is important when we think.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
About the virus. Yes, to find the history and.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
The history right, the importance of government, both municipal, local, state,
and federal governments showing up to address important gaps, including
those calls by man made and natural disasters and the
confluence therein which is what resulted in Outa Dina. And
so that is the tenth of our tour stops. But
(14:21):
then the week of Juneteenth, when we'll be meeting in Baltimore,
Maryland for a set of activities that will start on Juneteenth.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
I don't want to give away too much in this moment.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
I want to hold space for the other quarterback, Angela Ray,
to roll out our agenda, but want to encourage people
to visit us as state ofteppl dot com to register
to be the first to get the information when it's
made public. I will say that at that site, we
will release a compendium of all of the black papers,
(14:54):
again acknowledging that we are releasing new papers at each
tour site, but during that at juneteenth convenence, we will
release a downloadable, printable version of the compendium of black papers,
and that will also include resources for clergy and faith
leaders and other community leaders, including educators, to make it
(15:16):
as useful as possible.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Sure, Hey, what's up?
Speaker 5 (15:20):
This is Ramsy's job and I am q Ward and
we're inviting you to subscribe to Civic Cipher, our weekly
social justice podcast right here in the app.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
We pride ourselves on creating a show that busters allyship
empathy and understanding, all the while conducting journalistically credible research
featuring influential, noteworthy guests, and empowering historically marginalized communities.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
The African proverb reads, if you want to go far,
go together. So we are asking you to search for
and subscribe to Civic Cipher. That's CIVI c cip h
e er right here in the app. We are here
today with doctor David J.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Jones, who serves as the CEO and executive director of
the National Black Justice Collective. All Right, so, as I mentioned,
you know, we spoke to Joy about this, so we're
kind of coming into this conversation with a little bit
of momentum. You know, we were invited to participate in
(16:16):
a couple of dates for the State of the People tour,
so we'll be on the ground as well. But you know,
that was a really important conversation that we had with Joy.
She mentioned to us that the greatest threat to our
democracy is a free press. And that makes sense because
she works, you know, for the press, and you know,
(16:38):
we work for the press too, and so we kind
of understood that, but we also felt like, you know,
that conversation, it.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Needs to be developed further.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
You know, while we were kind of pontificating and having
our back and forth, we're like, okay, well, there's more
than just one thing, and you're in a in a
fantastic position, especially being on the tour right now, actively
engaging in conversations and listening to, you know, the stories
on the ground to offer more to that conversation. So besides,
(17:08):
you know, a free press under attack, what would you
say is another major threat that we should be mindful of.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Yeah, I appreciate that question of a shout out to
joy for Tillamus soil out plants some additional flowers. My
short answer, my direct answer is an uneducated people citizenry,
and I ran to grab a book. I am this
(17:38):
week in d C. After the Detroit stop. I have
the honor of interviewing a friend, an author, Careta Brown.
She wrote her recent book is titled The Battle for
the Black Mind.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
We'll be in conversation at bus Boys and Poets, and
what Careta talks about is.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
That the hour to control black bodies depends on one's
ability to control black minds. And there's a quote here.
It is that the fastest way to shape the hearts
and minds of a generation is through the school system.
And she offers this quote and talking about the the
(18:21):
binary choices that are that were frequently offered to black
folks when we were provided a formal access to education,
and that was often expressed through the legacy of our
agriculture and mechanical institutions and Booker T. Washington and Tuskegee Institute,
(18:43):
and it is that we, as a part of our
opportunity to be citizens, can be most productive through labor
and contributions through the workforce.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
And then you counter that with the legacy of folks
like W. E. B. Du Bois, who was shaped by
a very different tradition, often also anchored by white folks,
who believed in intellectual thoughts and pursuits more parody with
white folks. So this is a really long way of
(19:14):
me on naming what Belle Hooks wrote about when saying
that too often we don't teach that democracies have to
be defended with each generation, and education is it's midwife
it being democracy. And this is why if we reflect
upon the most recent election cycle, not just presidential but
(19:37):
electoral on every level, and the one four years before it,
we saw both gubernatorial elections that were shaped by questions
around education, and we saw organizations like Moms for Liberty,
where there are people who are cosplaying as both mothers
of kids in public schools, which many of them are not,
(19:59):
and folks who propa or to care about liberty, who
are using public education to dismantle democratic practices, to contribute
to burning and banning books, to the policing of what
teachers can and can't say such that folks stop being
woke and that they don't say gay, to offer up
some of the legislative attacks on again democracy tested in Florida,
(20:25):
and in this moment, so many people throughout our beautifully
diverse country are experiencing a civics lesson that they never
received before. And my hope is that people are not
distracted by what feel like.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Sensational communication of again attacks on democracy, attacking p BS,
UH removing Sesame Street, a program that was designed to
to help provide literacy skills for children, Black children, children
locked out of economic opportunity, is something that should concern
(21:06):
all of us in the same way that we should
be concerned about any president who could be bought by
a plane or or UH a congressional body that would
trade critical resources in medicaid, Medicare, or public education for
(21:27):
opportunities to further enrich Oligard. This is a really long
way of saying that education for me no surprise, given
joys orientation should be no surprise, given my orientation as
an educator, that I would say an uneducated citizenry or
miseducated to invite in another one of our leaders into
(21:48):
this space. Miseducated people Black people, to me is the
most dangerous thing.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Sure, sure, I appreciate that. That's a that's a fantastic response.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
And your point about you know, controlling the minds of
a population making it easier to control that population is
well received. I had a conversation this might have been
not a week ago. I was talking to This was
a white woman, and I couldn't tell you how the
(22:22):
conversation ended up going in that direction, but I ended
up we were talking about hip hop and.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Like the black.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Oratory tradition right from the grios in Africa all the
way to you know nowadays, and the perversion of that,
but really what the essence.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Of it is and could be.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
And I used Tupac as an example as I as
I do, and yeah, well, well you know with I
mean Tupac was he was He represented that binary quite
well in that you know, he represented you know, the
fun side, you know, all that sort of the street side,
but he also represented uplifting his people, empowering his people,
so forth, and so on, and so the example was
(23:09):
dear Mama. And in order to like make that live
beyond just the the little bit that we were looking
at with Tupac and Kendrick and you know, other other
rappers that have like a little bit more substance to him,
I had to. I got deep, and I ended up
going into the Willie Lynch letter. So when you talk
about controlling the mind, that's a phrase that I just
(23:29):
read again to this white woman and she's teary eyed
as I'm reading this letter, because she of course had
no idea, and I did tell her, I'm like, this
is the work of fiction, but this really does represent
and embody the spirit of you know, slave masters, and
it gives you insight into what slavery was like. And
so again that controlling the mind statement really is well met,
(23:51):
because that's that's the most important part. And then if
you have the minds of a people, they will do
the work for you. You they will, and they will
teach their children, you know, and so forth and so.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
And if we can stay here just for a second,
it is important for us to name efforts to control
the mind, and for me in this moment. Let's also
be mindful of their attempts to police our ability to
use words to describe our conditions. This is where Tony
Morrison would say that it is important for us to
(24:26):
have the ability to describe our conditions such that if
we can name, then we can change them.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
But this is why you have.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Folks like the failed history teacher turned governor of Florida,
Ronald Deon de Santis saying don't say gay, passing legislation
that is designed to prevent us from naming, and in words,
how it is that people attempt to force us into
boxes that are not designed to hold us or to
(24:55):
support us, and then to legislate access to critical resources
for some at the detriment of others. So I wanted again,
just in the space of this and going back to
Fannulu Hamer, black women, black lesbian women who are central
(25:17):
to twenty twenty and the women's movement, I want to
pull back and name black where women like a Bishop
of vet Flunder, who is at the center of a
religious tradition anchored in Oakland. That center's intersectionality. Bishop Flunder
helps us to appreciate how it is that white folks
(25:38):
in naming gender like white folks in naming gender and
offering up gender categories that are then legislated ways of
having access to things. It's problematic for us. So for
folks who are like, what the hell is this man
talking about? Think about this. There's one way to refer
to a grown boy legally he becomes a man, he's
(26:00):
a mister. There are at least three ways to refer
to a grown girl legally. She can be an miss,
she can be a MS, or she can be an mrs.
We should ask ourselves why is there one to three ratio?
But we should also go further and appreciating that these
aren't just negligible distinctions. A grown girl defined by these
(26:24):
terms means that she has access towards denied access to.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Resources at certain level legal.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Social, economic, and otherwise. And the a point for me
here and naming the queerness of it all is that
we too often black folks believe the lie that that
that queerness is not African. So mufusme, an author wrote,
(26:56):
wrote a book The Spirit of Intimacy. In the book,
chapter thirteen tiedle homosexuality to the gatekeepers. What they write
is in my village in West Africa, the words lesbian
and gay did not exist, but the word gaatekeeper did,
and gatekeepers hold the space between the.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
Village and our ancestors.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
We too often forget that in most native and indigenous
countries and communities, there are no gender pronouns. Gender is
a construct that white Europeans invented to steal resources for
white women or girls who married white boys. And if
we can be most critical about acknowledging and honoring this,
(27:34):
we cannot only be aware of how people are using
policies to hoard resources and to starve them from members
of our community. This goes very much to the heart
of Willy Lynch, and we can also work better in
coalition to get closer to freedom together.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
I hope that made sense.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Oh listen, you have a You've found the right audience today.
You know one of the things that I said this
recently in it different talk, not the same example I
mentioned before, But there's been this push to take certain
language on the right and demonize the words themselves. You
(28:15):
mentioned woke, woke, and when you think about that, it's
crazy how woke is a bad word. Now I proudly
say I'm woke because the alternative, the opposite is sleep,
you know what I mean? And you take a second
and think about that. WOK is not a bad thing,
but they've done a fantastic job of turning that around.
Critical race theory now comes to embody American history.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
What black Yeah, and you mentioned rondasantis and that don't say.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Gay, as if the word gay or even the act
of being existing as a gay individual is somehow villainous,
is somehow inherently like evil or problematic or praise on
(29:05):
the innocent nature of children, right, and that fundamental reframing
of the language. I see it as clear as day
that that makes the world a scarier place, not just
for gay people, what for the children right.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
And their parents and their parents, thank you, best grandparents.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
And their legislators who are all succeptible to legislating based
on ignorance and fear and or like Ronald Deonda Santis,
they know full where what they are doing, and they
are legislating terror to again hoard power. It is people's
(29:52):
pure ignorance, lack of relationships seventy two percent. MBJC collected
data with the number of national partners, including the National
Center for Lesbian Rights, glisten the Human Rights Campaign, and
the goal was to turn down white noise, to address
the misinformation and disinformation that often comes from white media,
not this network, not this community. And one of the
(30:15):
things that we found is that it is a lie
from the pit of white mediocrity that Black people are
singularly are more homophobic than any other community. In fact,
the vast majority of Black people believe that our community
can and should be doing more to support black people
who are members of sexual minority communities. Seventy two percent
of Black people do not have a meaningful relationship or
(30:38):
have not been invited into I don't like the work
coming out and come back to that if you want,
but have not been invited into someone's identity as trans.
But that's the same percentage of Americans without controlling for
racial or ethnic identity. And so what this means is
that there are more opportunities for us to do the
work of being curious, of celebrating diversity, equity, inclusion, that
(31:05):
based on all of the ways that people can experience
this crazy thing called life, that there are opportunities for
us to lean in and learn from it rather than
doing the thing that fascists want us to do, which
is to isolate, which is to say, I don't know
which one of y'all are in the number who voted
for somebody who wants me to die, who is literally
(31:28):
legislating opportunities for me to not have access to life
saving or affirming care or to be able to access
the democratic rituals and systems that I need in order
to participate as a citizen in this country, such that
I will just be by myself. We in this moment
canon should be reclaiming African ways of being, which includes
(31:51):
celebrating the strength of community, which includes celebrating the importance
of diversity with the capital D, which includes engaging in
interrogating contradictions. It doesn't make sense that black folks can
hold space for our native in indigenous siblings and know
that not only do they have words like on Turtle
Island or Tahiti for trans a gender expansive people, Maho
(32:19):
would be one of the terms that didn't just skip us.
Everything came from Africa. And so if we stop for
a second and don't become suffocated by the distraction and
the distortion that happens by design, if we come closer
to one another and celebrate the importance of community. If
(32:40):
we teach the things that we know have gotten us
closer to freedom, we can continue to move through this
and we will be stronger in numbers such that we
won't have to engage in defending democracy in this way.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
I love where this conversation is going because this recently.
By recently, I mean in the past couple of years,
read a book that I had and I kept from
college by Angela Davis. It's called Women, Race and Class.
And you know, Angela Davis, she kind of you know,
the book was It doesn't the book isn't about this conversation,
(33:16):
but it does kind of venture out into this territory.
And you know, my reading of that book and listening
to your conversation, especially when we talk about Rhonda Santis
and that don't say gay, because that's very problematic and
very dangerous. And because the nature of the country at
(33:39):
present is very divided. There's a lot more religion and
politics than we've ever seen before. And that does affect
black people because you know, we love us some Jesus right,
or you know, for folks that are Muslim, some Allah, right,
and so.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
We are sacred spiritual people.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
There you go, that's that's the best way to say. Fantastic.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
So what through Christianity?
Speaker 1 (34:03):
But yes, yes, absolutely, And so what we end up
with is we end up standing at the intersection of
do we follow a version of the teachings of the
Bible that has been passed down to us, an interpretation
that may or may not be our own, or do
we stand in solidarity of black people who are you know,
(34:26):
LGBT I A plus q I A plus in this
in this example. And for some people, they will pick
the former because they're people of faith, and they will
forget our own history. They will forget the fact that,
you know, we have been marginalized and subjugated and then
(34:47):
turn around and then do that to people who look
like them, under the same systems and using the same
levers of government to do so. And one of the
things that has kind of fleshed out in the post
Rohnda Scantis don't say gay you know political you know conversation.
And I've seen this online before, but I just think
that it bears mentioning in this conversation is that homosexuality
(35:13):
is natural. It is a natural thing, It is a
healthy thing. There is not nobody nobody's active being gay
has ever harmed me or anyone else. Right, It's found
in species across the spectrum, right, including human beings. Right,
it is it is a naturally occurring phenomenon, And homophobia
(35:35):
is only found in one species. And I think that
that reframes everything because how could that be possible? Well,
what else is also found in one species? You know,
this type of governance and this type of religion. And
that's not to say that other species don't have rituals
and so forth, because they do, but that intersection of
governance and spirituality can be very problematic, and it has
(35:59):
historically been for black people because they they use the
Bible to justify slavery, and the same people are using
the Bible and children to justify homophobia, and it creates
a more dangerous environment for people who were born black
will die black. And are our those of us who
are not gay, our brothers and sisters or siblings, however
(36:20):
they choose to self identify. And so I do appreciate
the points that you're making here, and I appreciate the
work that you're doing to make sure that people recognize
and respect that we're going to get further together and
that you know, we need we need you, and so
I think it's very special that you're doing this work.
Speaker 5 (36:41):
Again.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
I just can't say enough about it if I may.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
So, you know, we have talked about, you know, educating people.
We have talked about, you know, capturing people's minds. We
have talked about what it is that people need to know,
and what people are susceptible to, populations are vulnerable, et cetera.
Talk to us about what our listeners can do. You know,
(37:07):
you're on this you know, State of the People tour
right now. Let's say people want actions they can take.
You know, we're under a hostile government, you know, and
people feel a lot of hopelessness. People feel deflated, but
people still have a little bit of fight left in them.
And you're in a position to give some some marching
orders for folks. Again, talk to us a bit, maybe
(37:28):
a couple of three things, if you if you have them,
about what people can do to help create the changes
that we are going to need to advance a healthy,
decidedly black agenda in the United States.
Speaker 4 (37:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
I appreciate that question, as well as your thoughtful comments
more generally about me and the work. Let me build
a bridge between the most recent question and then where
we were, which is to invite in Freeman and Rabowski
and mentor friend and former president of the University of Maryland,
(38:02):
Baltimore County. When thinking about these questions of like religion
or not, LGBTQ support or not, Freeman would remind us
that we should be liberated by the beauty of both
and and not beholden by the tyranny of either or.
And so to the question of what should we do,
(38:24):
we should do all of the things required to experience joy,
to defend democracy, this very young and great experiment in
this country that our ancestors.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
Built for free.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
And we should celebrate opportunities to strengthen and restore community.
As the son of a grandson rather of a black
Baptist preacher from Austin, Texas, rest in peace, James Lemeo.
I think in three so I'll offer three things. One
is we should ensure that we are well. We can
(39:00):
take things to the pulpit or to the mosque, uh
or to whomever.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
Is your source.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
And my prayers that all of us have a good therapist,
someone who is competent, someone who supports us in doing
work outside of the session such that we are well mentally, spiritually, physically,
and otherwise to do all of the things that we
are required to do.
Speaker 4 (39:28):
That's one.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
And if any members of this community are black and queer,
transgender expansive and you do not have a good therapist,
please reach out to us at n b j C
dot org so that we can help you find competent
and high quality mental health support.
Speaker 4 (39:52):
That's one. The second is to return to my roots.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
In this moment, we should take every opportunity we have
to teach the base bees what's happening in this moment,
why there are fascists like Ronald deond de Santis attempting
to legislate going to sleep uh and not use the
words to name and change our conditions, and why they
(40:16):
are also elected leaders like Chevron Jones black same general
loving a member of the Senate in Florida, and Michelle
Rayner Michelle Rayner, also a black sam a general loving
are lesbian, a leader in the House of Representatives in
Florida fighting against these attacks footnote here For folks who
(40:37):
are like what a same gender loving, I don't use
a term gay. Gay is often used as an identifier
for white gay men or a gay political agenda that
is more aligned with what white gay men and people
closest to them need or want. I use a term
that was created by black men to be clear about
(40:57):
centering my africanness in all ways, and so it's important
to teach the babies about that. It's important to teach
people why we're engaged in a target fast, why brother
Jabal Bowman and Tamika Mallory and send Anita Turner and
so many others are helping to highlight the importance of
our economic power and working in coalition with folks like
the Black Chamber to remind folks that we have always
(41:20):
had everything we need to provide for our community. That's
number two, and then number three is to remain engaged civically.
All of us should be clear about who our elected
and appointed leaders are, especially at the local election. Too
often it is the case because we don't teach civics,
because there are people and positions of power who actively
(41:43):
work to make it difficult for people to vote or
otherwise engage civically, we don't do it as much as
we should, and that includes during non presidential election years.
The reality is that we are in the next election
cycle now, and my hope is that people have found
or will soon find, including through the State of the
People Tour, a home where they are growing in their
(42:07):
organizing such that they are leveraging their civic power by
electing and holding elected leaders accountable for working on our behalf.
My hope again is that the black papers are a
useful tool in that exercise, but that people really understand
and own their power and exercise it in all of
(42:27):
the ways civically with a capital C.
Speaker 4 (42:30):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Sure, now you know before I let you go, we
have listeners all over the country. I know that this
is a ten city tour. There's bound to be people
who might want to go to this but can't make
it physically. Is there a way to participate virtually? Is
(42:51):
there a way to maybe donate? Is there a way
to get information? Is there some like connective tissue maybe website,
social media, emails, whatever it is that you have it
that our.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Listeners can use who may not be able to show up.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Yeah, I appreciate the answer is yes to all of
those questions, and I hope that everyone will visit the
website State of thepp L dot com. That's the same
user name across all digital platforms, including Twitter. We're going
forever call it Twitter in spite of that petulant child
who likes to break and steal things.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
So that's one.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
The second is it's important for me to name that
this ten city tour is an opportunity for us to
affirm the work that we know is happening in so
many communities throughout the country. Our hope is that the resources,
the energy, the infrastructure that's being fortified by the tour
(43:47):
will be leveraged by folks who are doing this work
in cities that we will not have the opportunity to
visit before the Juneteenth convening that has been planned. And
what we know is that democracies have to be defended constantly.
And so I want people to hear me when I
say that this is not the end of the work.
This is the beginning of what will be the best
(44:10):
which is yet to come. And so again, download the
resources we have, tap into the existing infrastructure, including the
city lead who have now amassed additional best practices and
how to do some of this work, so that it
can fuel the work that is already happening. And if
it's not happening, where you are, and you want to
use this to get things started.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
Let's do that too.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
My hope is that it is it is empowering more
than it is disempowering for folks who will not be
physically touched by the tour, and that we also leverage
the resources that exist in things like digital platforms and
powerful podcast networks.
Speaker 4 (44:49):
Like this one, so we can fill some of these
critical gaps now.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
And I know I've said this before, but I can't
let you go unless I at least ask. I know
that right now you're doing the State of the People tour,
and I of course people are going to want to
tap in.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
I want people to tap in.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
But the work that you're doing as an individual leader,
I think that that deserves you a mention as well,
because there are people who are going to listen to
this conversation and say, this person is walking the path
that is righteous, that is just, and I need to
support him. I need to follow him, I need to
keep up with him. Is it possible do you have
(45:25):
any of that connective tissue for people to tap in
with you directly and support you on your way. I do.
Speaker 4 (45:31):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 3 (45:32):
I appreciate that because the occupant of the Oval Office
is a litigious, petulant child. I should say that by
remarks over the course of this conversation reflect my individual thoughts,
not that of the organization that I lead, which has
a C three, But that organization is the National Block
just as collective. The website is NBJC dot org. We
(45:56):
are INBJC on the move. The team would be angry
with me if I didn't say in this moment that
we're really excited about Equity Week June tenth through the
fourteenth will produce a series of events very much aligned
with the heart and the mission of State of the
People in Washington, d C. Those events will include out
(46:18):
on the Hill, legislative advocacy sessions with members of Congress
on both sides of the aisle, a historic ball Equity
Ball not black tie, Jack and Jill Gala evoked the
House Down Polls ball at Howard Theater on Friday, June thirteenth,
(46:39):
and some related activities that honor our ancestors, including Brother
bid Rustin, the architect of the March on Washington for
Jobs and Freedom, and sixty three, the mentor godfather to
the children of and confidant of doctor Martin Luther King,
the person who's responsible for us having nonviolence all disobedience
(47:01):
because he studied at the feet of monks, including Gandhi
and brought those teaching backs. Uh, brought those teachings rather
back imbued with his religious tradition as a Quaker, to
help advance these collective movements to get us all both
free and liberated. So folks can learn about that at
(47:22):
NBJC dot org or via our Equity Week event, pright
event bright page.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Listen, this has been insightful.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
UH, it's necessary and long overdue, and and it's it's
been a joy. I salute you, I just before you go.
You know, we we sit in a studio with a
symbolic roundtable. You know, we built the platform in terms
(47:52):
of our radio show, built the platform that could highlight
the voices and the people that were supporting us black
people in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
We wanted to make sure that we had a space
to share.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
Because we were radio guys, Me and Q we do
where DJ's you know, giveaway concert tickets, that type of
radio guys. And we felt that this show was necessary
and we knew that we might be able to tell
one story, but there are a lot of stories out there,
and one of the most challenging stories since then to
(48:30):
get on the show is someone who is competent, you know,
in media, to come up and talk about.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
What it's like to be.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Homosexual in a hostile environment and the rare opportunities we've
had to have those conversations. They've been illuminating and necessary
and heartbreaking, but it's been it's been very important for
us in terms of building bridges. It's been very important
for our listeners in terms of building bridges and making
(49:05):
sure that oh I had no idea that that's what
that looked like, that that's what it felt like to
live under that reality, in that reality.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
And so today's conversation.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Normally, when when when I let people go, it's like, well,
thank you for the time, thank you for the work
that you're doing. You know, good luck and godspeed. We're
here if you need us. I want to just put
a little bit more emphasis on that, because what you're
doing matters, you know, the humanity that you affirm, not
not for yourself but for everyone, you know, black people
(49:36):
in general, but everyone, and then of course more specifically
for people who identify uh in in the various ways
that are. You know we're discussing today is so necessary.
A world without these vulnerable communities is a worse world
(49:57):
than a world that it would be inconceivable to live in.
And it may or may not be challenging. You may
or may not need additional fortitude. But I wanted to
take this moment to just pour into you a little
bit more. We built this with this roundtable for you,
so this and for people like you, but for you.
(50:18):
You know, we're having this conversation today, so I want
to make sure that I extend it.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
The right way.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
When and if you feel you ever need a platform,
you need an audience, you need a microphone, please come
back and see your brothers here on this on this show,
see us on our other show. You know we we're
here to support you. That's the that's the whole point.
We can't tell the stories, but we can do radio,
we can do podcasting, but we can't tell the stories
because we haven't lived that life. And so just be encouraged,
(50:44):
keep walking the walk and know you got you know,
a couple of brothers here that'll that will help you.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
If you need us, just give us a.
Speaker 4 (50:49):
Caller, right, don't tell me what a good time.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
Listen, man, we're here on this. This ain't lip service, man,
I promise you I've.
Speaker 3 (50:56):
Received that the soul, food and the thoughtfulness with which
you have engaged in this conversation. Thank you to both
you and to Q. I very much look forward to
continuing to build once again.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
Today's guest is doctor David J.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
Johns, who serves as the CEO and Executive director of
the National Black Justice Collective. This has been a production
of the Black Information Network. Today's show is produced by
Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts you'd like to share, use
the red microphone talkback feature on the iHeartRadio app. While
you're there, be sure to hit subscribe and download all
of our episodes.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
I am your host
Speaker 1 (51:33):
Ramsey's Jaw on all social media and join us tomorrow
as we share our news with our voice from our
perspective right here on the Black Information Network Daily Podcast
The State of the People Tour is a nationwide movement
rallying black communities to restore, reimagine, and reclaim power through
strategic action and collective organizing. Visiting ten major cities across
the country, it aims to activate a grassroots movement that
amplifies black voices, demands systemic change, and advances a national
collective black agenda rooted injustice and liberation, building toward the
(00:23):
State of the People International Assembly on Juneteenth. One of
the leaders of the State of the People Tour, doctor
David J. Johns, serves as the CEO and Executive director
of the National Black Justice Collective, and he is our
guest today.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
This is the Black.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Information Network Daily Podcast and I'm your host, Ramses Job.
All right, doctor David J. Johns, Welcome to the show.
It is a pleasure to have you on. We've heard
a little bit about you and I'm excited to learn more.
So we start our stories at the beginning to us
at favor. I've obviously given you a brief introduction, but
you know, for folks that are just coming to this conversation,
(01:02):
just you know, finding out who you are and what
it is that you do. Give us a little bit
of background on sort of your story and sort of
what led you to, you know, the position as the
CEO and executive director of the National Black Justice Collective.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yeah, I appreciate that invitation and for you making space
for us to talk about the state of the people
work more generally for black people. You can call me David.
What I tend to say is that white people are
obligated to call me doctor. That's my person, but Black people,
especially those who do be before the degree confirment, please
(01:34):
call me David. Most folks who know me know that
I care deeply about our babies, as I call them.
I'm an educator by training and calling. My research is
on the experiences of black students who are assumed to
be or identify as lesbian, gay by special transgender in
(01:56):
public middle and high schools. I taught elementary school before
spend nearly a decade crafting federal policy. I worked first
as a CBCF Congression of Black Caucus fellow for Charles
Rango when he was Chair of the Ways and Means Committee.
I then spent nearly nine years as a senior policy
advisor to the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions.
(02:18):
That committee sees on average forty percent of legislation introduced
in the Senate. It was chaired by Senator Ted Kennedy
until he died after working with President Barack Usain Obama
to pass what became known as the Affordable Care Act
or Obamacare. Thereafter, I worked for Tom Harkin, a Senator
from the great state of Iowa, which they called God's Country.
(02:42):
I learned a lot about that and then longer story short,
when the Tea Party rose in sentiment and it was
no longer possible to pass bipartisan legislation, I took a
pay cut from that job to help get President Obama
reelected before being appointed to lead a White House initiative
on educational excellence for African Americans.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
That initiative was recently.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Destroyed by the current occupant of the Oval Office, but
allowed me to work at one of the highest offices
in the land as a public servant to help highlight
opportunities for us to support learning and development opportunities for
all students. And now I lead a civil rights organization,
a more than twenty year old civil rights organization that
sits at the intersections of racial equity and LGBTQ a
(03:24):
plus equality for folks who have pronoun or language fatigue.
We understand the teachings of Fannie lou Hamer who said
that none of us are free and a lesson until
all of us are free, and all of our work
is freedom driven work, and that includes the work we're
doing with the State of the People's Tour.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
No.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I want to make sure I get this right. Fanny
lou Hamer is. I'm mentally on placing her with the NCNW.
Is their connection there.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
That's exactly right. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
And among the things that Fanny lou Hamer did as
an a voting rights, women's rights activists, a community organizer,
and a vice chair of the Freedom Democratic Party was
to center intersectionality. And one of the things that she's
known for reminding us is that none of us are
free and a lesson to tell all of us are free.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Sure, sure, sure, So now I'm a lot more grateful
for the history lesson that I got. Q and I
we were fortunate enough to go and spend some time
at the n CNW National Convention in Baltimore. I believe
it was I'm Bradley, Yeah, yes, and doctor Bradley was
was giving us a little bit of a background on
the organization because they're not as.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
We don't celebrate we don't celebrate black women as often
as we should, as we should.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
That's fair, but also the organization is just well established
in that part of the country and on this part
of the country less so, and so you know, we
don't get a chance to interact as much, and so
it's interesting to see how far that influence has gone.
And the truth of the matter is that you know,
you you you've spoken about the intersectionality of LGBTQ ia
(05:03):
plus i'd imagine communities, black people and politics, and that's
an intersection that we've been forced to pay very close
attention to, particularly since twenty twenty because you know, just
for our listeners know this, but you know, for the
sake of the conversation, we took leadership. We took direction
from a lot of mostly they were lesbian women that
(05:28):
were out on the street, you know, in twenty twenty,
organizing protests and all that sort of stuff. And we
learned that there was a discrepancy in these voices and
the influence that they should wield. And we saw how
effective that leadership was, and we you know, counted ourselves
among you know, allies and those people that would you know,
help create a future that would center and highlight those
(05:50):
voices and that type of leadership. Because from where we sat,
it was effective, it was necessary, and it filled in
a lot of gaps that even we had, you know,
as people that didn't consider ourselves biased and all that
sort of stuff, there's still gaps and lessons that we
needed to learn. And so you know, I salute you
for the work that you're doing. That's that's fantastic. And
you know, the more people I think that pick up
(06:10):
causes like that, I think, the stronger that we're going
to be as a people and as a country. So
so again I salute you for that. Now let's shift
gears a bit here, because you know, the order of
the day is the State of the People Tour, and
you know, we've kind of talked about it a bit,
and of course, you know, Joey was on the show.
Joanne Reid was on the show recently and she kind
of mentioned it. But you know, for our listeners, let's
(06:32):
give the listeners a bit more detail. Take us inside
of one of the meetings and kind of the goings
on of one of the tour stops for the State
of the People tour.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Yeah, I'm really excited to do that after having spent
the last two days in Richmond, Virginia, our most recent
State of the.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
People Power tour stop.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
And if you're excited by this conversation, I encourage you
to go to State of Theepeople pp L dot com
and get information about.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
Where we will be this week with is Detroit.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
But the activities in Richmond occurred over the course of
two days. We started with a community gathering at a
place called The Land, which is in a downtown historic
district where this is actually appropriate thinking about the upcoming
anniversary of the Tulsa massacre, where a block that was
(07:21):
a site of a development powered by black folks was
destroyed by a white racial mob. This the land that
we occupied yesterday in Jackson Hole, Virginia, was the site
of hundreds of businesses that were powered by black folks
(07:42):
that were similarly destroyed, and so we reclaimed that space
again honoring the importance of celebrating that the most important
power that exists in a democratic experiment like ours is
people power. Virginia was important because nearly one in four
black folks throughout the United States can directly trace their
(08:03):
lineage through the state of Virginia and its slave portals.
And we talked about the work that members of their
community continue to do to ensure that everyone in Virginia,
in particular black folks, have access to the resources they need,
including elected leaders who are working on their behalf. And
(08:26):
then yesterday we had a day of programming that included
workshops centering the needs of business leaders, black men, talking
about the importance of mental health of sisters, talking about
in very much reference to fannielu Hammer, leading not only
families but communities in defending democracy. There was a rally
(08:48):
where a combination of local leaders kicked off by a
beautiful five year old, a young girl who said that
she loved black people and she also loved running track
national rally to talk about again the imports of restoring
the rights of brothers and siblings who've been incarcerated, of
(09:09):
ensuring that we engaged in the civics process locally, because
state referendums in Georgia. In Georgia, excuse me, that's where
we started things off in Atlanta, Georgia, but in Richmond, Virginia,
and the state of Virginia state referendums have to be
passed in two legislative sessions, and so all of that
was all of that rather happened while vendors showed up
(09:31):
and talked about resources they are providing to the community.
Folks did line dances that were boots on the ground
literally and figuratively, and it was the most recent reflection
of what Angela Rai, our co quarterback with sister Joyanne Reid,
calls our love letter to the black community. I'm really
(09:54):
honored to lead the State of the People Black Paper
Research Project.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Every Well, I was going to ask for you to
go into detail about that because that's another thing that
I wanted to know more about, So please continue.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
So the Black Paper Project was born out of an
early conversation we had where we reflected on the African
American Political Convention which happened in Gary, Indiana in March
of seventy two, if my memory serves me well, in
this moment, and we pulled up the policy agenda that
was produced out of that convening, where there were national
(10:31):
delegates from every state who participated in this process, and
I was frustrated by the fact that almost every demand
that existed in seventy two are demands that we are
still actively fighting for, including DC statehood. Where I am
having this conversation from where I'm calling in from, and
(10:51):
so Angela, Ryan and I had a conversation, and I
was voluntold. Anyone who knows Angela knows what it means
to be volunteld to show service, and so I was
volunteld to help lead this black paper project. Folks are
familiar often with what are traditionally called white papers we
sent to blackness and everything that we do, and so
(11:13):
at the end of this process we will have published
nearly are more than thirty black papers on a range
of policy issues. We are not speaking to traditional policy
audiences or our friends who lead important think tanks. I've
often talked to people about writing for my mother, who
(11:35):
understands and for a long time has understood that I
do important work. But well before I was appointed to
work for President Obama, she would tell our family and
our friendsident I work for President Obama. It's for folks
who know, as Brian Stevenson says, that systems work as
designed and that in this moment, there are people who
are wielding power to further and rich really wealthy, often
(11:59):
white oligarchs, at the cost and consequence of often Black
people losing sometimes our lives. Which I know sometimes might
feel like hyperbole, but when we think about the impending
cuts to medicaid and medicare a lot of the losses
of federal employment, which one in every four federal employees
(12:22):
are black. When we think about the cuts, the things
like frame reduced price lunch, or education more generally, or
healthcare services, I'm thinking about the terroristic bombing of a.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Reproductive justice system.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
These are all things that will continue to make it
harder for black people to not just survive, but to thrive.
And so every tour stop we release a set of
black papers. In Detroit, we are excited to release two
black papers, one on entrepreneurship that will include a panel
discussion that I'm honored to lead with Natalie Kofi, a
(13:00):
leader in the space, Arian Simone, a CEO and founder
of the Fearless Fund, Melissa Butler, I'm CEO and founder
of the lip Bar. And we'll also release a paper
on transportation and infrastructure. And so the goal is to
ensure that there are connections between what's going on in
the local community with the black papers and provide the
community with resources to connect some of these really important
(13:22):
policy dots.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Now, now this the State of the People Tour.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
It culminates in in it like a finale of sorts
of if I'm not mistaken, this takes place on Juneteenth, right.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
That's correct?
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Okay, So yeah, what what what should people expect from that?
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Yeah? So the tour, the tenth tour stop is in.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I would argue the best state, not because of the
politics I have challenges with Governor Gavin Dusom, but because
I'm a son of California. But we're concluding in Outa Dina,
which is important when we think.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
About the virus. Yes, to find the history and.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
The history right, the importance of government, both municipal, local, state,
and federal governments showing up to address important gaps, including
those calls by man made and natural disasters and the
confluence therein which is what resulted in Outa Dina. And
so that is the tenth of our tour stops. But
(14:21):
then the week of Juneteenth, when we'll be meeting in Baltimore,
Maryland for a set of activities that will start on Juneteenth.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
I don't want to give away too much in this moment.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
I want to hold space for the other quarterback, Angela Ray,
to roll out our agenda, but want to encourage people
to visit us as state ofteppl dot com to register
to be the first to get the information when it's
made public. I will say that at that site, we
will release a compendium of all of the black papers,
(14:54):
again acknowledging that we are releasing new papers at each
tour site, but during that at juneteenth convenence, we will
release a downloadable, printable version of the compendium of black papers,
and that will also include resources for clergy and faith
leaders and other community leaders, including educators, to make it
(15:16):
as useful as possible.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Sure, Hey, what's up?
Speaker 5 (15:20):
This is Ramsy's job and I am q Ward and
we're inviting you to subscribe to Civic Cipher, our weekly
social justice podcast right here in the app.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
We pride ourselves on creating a show that busters allyship
empathy and understanding, all the while conducting journalistically credible research
featuring influential, noteworthy guests, and empowering historically marginalized communities.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
The African proverb reads, if you want to go far,
go together. So we are asking you to search for
and subscribe to Civic Cipher. That's CIVI c cip h
e er right here in the app. We are here
today with doctor David J.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Jones, who serves as the CEO and executive director of
the National Black Justice Collective. All Right, so, as I mentioned,
you know, we spoke to Joy about this, so we're
kind of coming into this conversation with a little bit
of momentum. You know, we were invited to participate in
(16:16):
a couple of dates for the State of the People tour,
so we'll be on the ground as well. But you know,
that was a really important conversation that we had with Joy.
She mentioned to us that the greatest threat to our
democracy is a free press. And that makes sense because
she works, you know, for the press, and you know,
(16:38):
we work for the press too, and so we kind
of understood that, but we also felt like, you know,
that conversation, it.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Needs to be developed further.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
You know, while we were kind of pontificating and having
our back and forth, we're like, okay, well, there's more
than just one thing, and you're in a in a
fantastic position, especially being on the tour right now, actively
engaging in conversations and listening to, you know, the stories
on the ground to offer more to that conversation. So besides,
(17:08):
you know, a free press under attack, what would you
say is another major threat that we should be mindful of.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Yeah, I appreciate that question of a shout out to
joy for Tillamus soil out plants some additional flowers. My
short answer, my direct answer is an uneducated people citizenry,
and I ran to grab a book. I am this
(17:38):
week in d C. After the Detroit stop. I have
the honor of interviewing a friend, an author, Careta Brown.
She wrote her recent book is titled The Battle for
the Black Mind.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
We'll be in conversation at bus Boys and Poets, and
what Careta talks about is.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
That the hour to control black bodies depends on one's
ability to control black minds. And there's a quote here.
It is that the fastest way to shape the hearts
and minds of a generation is through the school system.
And she offers this quote and talking about the the
(18:21):
binary choices that are that were frequently offered to black
folks when we were provided a formal access to education,
and that was often expressed through the legacy of our
agriculture and mechanical institutions and Booker T. Washington and Tuskegee Institute,
(18:43):
and it is that we, as a part of our
opportunity to be citizens, can be most productive through labor
and contributions through the workforce.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
And then you counter that with the legacy of folks
like W. E. B. Du Bois, who was shaped by
a very different tradition, often also anchored by white folks,
who believed in intellectual thoughts and pursuits more parody with
white folks. So this is a really long way of
(19:14):
me on naming what Belle Hooks wrote about when saying
that too often we don't teach that democracies have to
be defended with each generation, and education is it's midwife
it being democracy. And this is why if we reflect
upon the most recent election cycle, not just presidential but
(19:37):
electoral on every level, and the one four years before it,
we saw both gubernatorial elections that were shaped by questions
around education, and we saw organizations like Moms for Liberty,
where there are people who are cosplaying as both mothers
of kids in public schools, which many of them are not,
(19:59):
and folks who propa or to care about liberty, who
are using public education to dismantle democratic practices, to contribute
to burning and banning books, to the policing of what
teachers can and can't say such that folks stop being
woke and that they don't say gay, to offer up
some of the legislative attacks on again democracy tested in Florida,
(20:25):
and in this moment, so many people throughout our beautifully
diverse country are experiencing a civics lesson that they never
received before. And my hope is that people are not
distracted by what feel like.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Sensational communication of again attacks on democracy, attacking p BS,
UH removing Sesame Street, a program that was designed to
to help provide literacy skills for children, Black children, children
locked out of economic opportunity, is something that should concern
(21:06):
all of us in the same way that we should
be concerned about any president who could be bought by
a plane or or UH a congressional body that would
trade critical resources in medicaid, Medicare, or public education for
(21:27):
opportunities to further enrich Oligard. This is a really long
way of saying that education for me no surprise, given
joys orientation should be no surprise, given my orientation as
an educator, that I would say an uneducated citizenry or
miseducated to invite in another one of our leaders into
(21:48):
this space. Miseducated people Black people, to me is the
most dangerous thing.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Sure, sure, I appreciate that. That's a that's a fantastic response.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
And your point about you know, controlling the minds of
a population making it easier to control that population is
well received. I had a conversation this might have been
not a week ago. I was talking to This was
a white woman, and I couldn't tell you how the
(22:22):
conversation ended up going in that direction, but I ended
up we were talking about hip hop and.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Like the black.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Oratory tradition right from the grios in Africa all the
way to you know nowadays, and the perversion of that,
but really what the essence.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Of it is and could be.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
And I used Tupac as an example as I as
I do, and yeah, well, well you know with I
mean Tupac was he was He represented that binary quite
well in that you know, he represented you know, the
fun side, you know, all that sort of the street side,
but he also represented uplifting his people, empowering his people,
so forth, and so on, and so the example was
(23:09):
dear Mama. And in order to like make that live
beyond just the the little bit that we were looking
at with Tupac and Kendrick and you know, other other
rappers that have like a little bit more substance to him,
I had to. I got deep, and I ended up
going into the Willie Lynch letter. So when you talk
about controlling the mind, that's a phrase that I just
(23:29):
read again to this white woman and she's teary eyed
as I'm reading this letter, because she of course had
no idea, and I did tell her, I'm like, this
is the work of fiction, but this really does represent
and embody the spirit of you know, slave masters, and
it gives you insight into what slavery was like. And
so again that controlling the mind statement really is well met,
(23:51):
because that's that's the most important part. And then if
you have the minds of a people, they will do
the work for you. You they will, and they will
teach their children, you know, and so forth and so.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
And if we can stay here just for a second,
it is important for us to name efforts to control
the mind, and for me in this moment. Let's also
be mindful of their attempts to police our ability to
use words to describe our conditions. This is where Tony
Morrison would say that it is important for us to
(24:26):
have the ability to describe our conditions such that if
we can name, then we can change them.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
But this is why you have.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Folks like the failed history teacher turned governor of Florida,
Ronald Deon de Santis saying don't say gay, passing legislation
that is designed to prevent us from naming, and in words,
how it is that people attempt to force us into
boxes that are not designed to hold us or to
(24:55):
support us, and then to legislate access to critical resources
for some at the detriment of others. So I wanted again,
just in the space of this and going back to
Fannulu Hamer, black women, black lesbian women who are central
(25:17):
to twenty twenty and the women's movement, I want to
pull back and name black where women like a Bishop
of vet Flunder, who is at the center of a
religious tradition anchored in Oakland. That center's intersectionality. Bishop Flunder
helps us to appreciate how it is that white folks
(25:38):
in naming gender like white folks in naming gender and
offering up gender categories that are then legislated ways of
having access to things. It's problematic for us. So for
folks who are like, what the hell is this man
talking about? Think about this. There's one way to refer
to a grown boy legally he becomes a man, he's
(26:00):
a mister. There are at least three ways to refer
to a grown girl legally. She can be an miss,
she can be a MS, or she can be an mrs.
We should ask ourselves why is there one to three ratio?
But we should also go further and appreciating that these
aren't just negligible distinctions. A grown girl defined by these
(26:24):
terms means that she has access towards denied access to.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Resources at certain level legal.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Social, economic, and otherwise. And the a point for me
here and naming the queerness of it all is that
we too often black folks believe the lie that that
that queerness is not African. So mufusme, an author wrote,
(26:56):
wrote a book The Spirit of Intimacy. In the book,
chapter thirteen tiedle homosexuality to the gatekeepers. What they write
is in my village in West Africa, the words lesbian
and gay did not exist, but the word gaatekeeper did,
and gatekeepers hold the space between the.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
Village and our ancestors.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
We too often forget that in most native and indigenous
countries and communities, there are no gender pronouns. Gender is
a construct that white Europeans invented to steal resources for
white women or girls who married white boys. And if
we can be most critical about acknowledging and honoring this,
(27:34):
we cannot only be aware of how people are using
policies to hoard resources and to starve them from members
of our community. This goes very much to the heart
of Willy Lynch, and we can also work better in
coalition to get closer to freedom together.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
I hope that made sense.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Oh listen, you have a You've found the right audience today.
You know one of the things that I said this
recently in it different talk, not the same example I
mentioned before, But there's been this push to take certain
language on the right and demonize the words themselves. You
(28:15):
mentioned woke, woke, and when you think about that, it's
crazy how woke is a bad word. Now I proudly
say I'm woke because the alternative, the opposite is sleep,
you know what I mean? And you take a second
and think about that. WOK is not a bad thing,
but they've done a fantastic job of turning that around.
Critical race theory now comes to embody American history.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
What black Yeah, and you mentioned rondasantis and that don't say.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Gay, as if the word gay or even the act
of being existing as a gay individual is somehow villainous,
is somehow inherently like evil or problematic or praise on
(29:05):
the innocent nature of children, right, and that fundamental reframing
of the language. I see it as clear as day
that that makes the world a scarier place, not just
for gay people, what for the children right.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
And their parents and their parents, thank you, best grandparents.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
And their legislators who are all succeptible to legislating based
on ignorance and fear and or like Ronald Deonda Santis,
they know full where what they are doing, and they
are legislating terror to again hoard power. It is people's
(29:52):
pure ignorance, lack of relationships seventy two percent. MBJC collected
data with the number of national partners, including the National
Center for Lesbian Rights, glisten the Human Rights Campaign, and
the goal was to turn down white noise, to address
the misinformation and disinformation that often comes from white media,
not this network, not this community. And one of the
(30:15):
things that we found is that it is a lie
from the pit of white mediocrity that Black people are
singularly are more homophobic than any other community. In fact,
the vast majority of Black people believe that our community
can and should be doing more to support black people
who are members of sexual minority communities. Seventy two percent
of Black people do not have a meaningful relationship or
(30:38):
have not been invited into I don't like the work
coming out and come back to that if you want,
but have not been invited into someone's identity as trans.
But that's the same percentage of Americans without controlling for
racial or ethnic identity. And so what this means is
that there are more opportunities for us to do the
work of being curious, of celebrating diversity, equity, inclusion, that
(31:05):
based on all of the ways that people can experience
this crazy thing called life, that there are opportunities for
us to lean in and learn from it rather than
doing the thing that fascists want us to do, which
is to isolate, which is to say, I don't know
which one of y'all are in the number who voted
for somebody who wants me to die, who is literally
(31:28):
legislating opportunities for me to not have access to life
saving or affirming care or to be able to access
the democratic rituals and systems that I need in order
to participate as a citizen in this country, such that
I will just be by myself. We in this moment
canon should be reclaiming African ways of being, which includes
(31:51):
celebrating the strength of community, which includes celebrating the importance
of diversity with the capital D, which includes engaging in
interrogating contradictions. It doesn't make sense that black folks can
hold space for our native in indigenous siblings and know
that not only do they have words like on Turtle
Island or Tahiti for trans a gender expansive people, Maho
(32:19):
would be one of the terms that didn't just skip us.
Everything came from Africa. And so if we stop for
a second and don't become suffocated by the distraction and
the distortion that happens by design, if we come closer
to one another and celebrate the importance of community. If
(32:40):
we teach the things that we know have gotten us
closer to freedom, we can continue to move through this
and we will be stronger in numbers such that we
won't have to engage in defending democracy in this way.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
I love where this conversation is going because this recently.
By recently, I mean in the past couple of years,
read a book that I had and I kept from
college by Angela Davis. It's called Women, Race and Class.
And you know, Angela Davis, she kind of you know,
the book was It doesn't the book isn't about this conversation,
(33:16):
but it does kind of venture out into this territory.
And you know, my reading of that book and listening
to your conversation, especially when we talk about Rhonda Santis
and that don't say gay, because that's very problematic and
very dangerous. And because the nature of the country at
(33:39):
present is very divided. There's a lot more religion and
politics than we've ever seen before. And that does affect
black people because you know, we love us some Jesus right,
or you know, for folks that are Muslim, some Allah, right,
and so.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
We are sacred spiritual people.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
There you go, that's that's the best way to say. Fantastic.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
So what through Christianity?
Speaker 1 (34:03):
But yes, yes, absolutely, And so what we end up
with is we end up standing at the intersection of
do we follow a version of the teachings of the
Bible that has been passed down to us, an interpretation
that may or may not be our own, or do
we stand in solidarity of black people who are you know,
(34:26):
LGBT I A plus q I A plus in this
in this example. And for some people, they will pick
the former because they're people of faith, and they will
forget our own history. They will forget the fact that,
you know, we have been marginalized and subjugated and then
(34:47):
turn around and then do that to people who look
like them, under the same systems and using the same
levers of government to do so. And one of the
things that has kind of fleshed out in the post
Rohnda Scantis don't say gay you know political you know conversation.
And I've seen this online before, but I just think
that it bears mentioning in this conversation is that homosexuality
(35:13):
is natural. It is a natural thing, It is a
healthy thing. There is not nobody nobody's active being gay
has ever harmed me or anyone else. Right, It's found
in species across the spectrum, right, including human beings. Right,
it is it is a naturally occurring phenomenon, And homophobia
(35:35):
is only found in one species. And I think that
that reframes everything because how could that be possible? Well,
what else is also found in one species? You know,
this type of governance and this type of religion. And
that's not to say that other species don't have rituals
and so forth, because they do, but that intersection of
governance and spirituality can be very problematic, and it has
(35:59):
historically been for black people because they they use the
Bible to justify slavery, and the same people are using
the Bible and children to justify homophobia, and it creates
a more dangerous environment for people who were born black
will die black. And are our those of us who
are not gay, our brothers and sisters or siblings, however
(36:20):
they choose to self identify. And so I do appreciate
the points that you're making here, and I appreciate the
work that you're doing to make sure that people recognize
and respect that we're going to get further together and
that you know, we need we need you, and so
I think it's very special that you're doing this work.
Speaker 5 (36:41):
Again.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
I just can't say enough about it if I may.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
So, you know, we have talked about, you know, educating people.
We have talked about, you know, capturing people's minds. We
have talked about what it is that people need to know,
and what people are susceptible to, populations are vulnerable, et cetera.
Talk to us about what our listeners can do. You know,
(37:07):
you're on this you know, State of the People tour
right now. Let's say people want actions they can take.
You know, we're under a hostile government, you know, and
people feel a lot of hopelessness. People feel deflated, but
people still have a little bit of fight left in them.
And you're in a position to give some some marching
orders for folks. Again, talk to us a bit, maybe
(37:28):
a couple of three things, if you if you have them,
about what people can do to help create the changes
that we are going to need to advance a healthy,
decidedly black agenda in the United States.
Speaker 4 (37:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
I appreciate that question, as well as your thoughtful comments
more generally about me and the work. Let me build
a bridge between the most recent question and then where
we were, which is to invite in Freeman and Rabowski
and mentor friend and former president of the University of Maryland,
(38:02):
Baltimore County. When thinking about these questions of like religion
or not, LGBTQ support or not, Freeman would remind us
that we should be liberated by the beauty of both
and and not beholden by the tyranny of either or.
And so to the question of what should we do,
(38:24):
we should do all of the things required to experience joy,
to defend democracy, this very young and great experiment in
this country that our ancestors.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
Built for free.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
And we should celebrate opportunities to strengthen and restore community.
As the son of a grandson rather of a black
Baptist preacher from Austin, Texas, rest in peace, James Lemeo.
I think in three so I'll offer three things. One
is we should ensure that we are well. We can
(39:00):
take things to the pulpit or to the mosque, uh
or to whomever.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
Is your source.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
And my prayers that all of us have a good therapist,
someone who is competent, someone who supports us in doing
work outside of the session such that we are well mentally, spiritually, physically,
and otherwise to do all of the things that we
are required to do.
Speaker 4 (39:28):
That's one.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
And if any members of this community are black and queer,
transgender expansive and you do not have a good therapist,
please reach out to us at n b j C
dot org so that we can help you find competent
and high quality mental health support.
Speaker 4 (39:52):
That's one. The second is to return to my roots.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
In this moment, we should take every opportunity we have
to teach the base bees what's happening in this moment,
why there are fascists like Ronald deond de Santis attempting
to legislate going to sleep uh and not use the
words to name and change our conditions, and why they
(40:16):
are also elected leaders like Chevron Jones black same general
loving a member of the Senate in Florida, and Michelle
Rayner Michelle Rayner, also a black sam a general loving
are lesbian, a leader in the House of Representatives in
Florida fighting against these attacks footnote here For folks who
(40:37):
are like what a same gender loving, I don't use
a term gay. Gay is often used as an identifier
for white gay men or a gay political agenda that
is more aligned with what white gay men and people
closest to them need or want. I use a term
that was created by black men to be clear about
(40:57):
centering my africanness in all ways, and so it's important
to teach the babies about that. It's important to teach
people why we're engaged in a target fast, why brother
Jabal Bowman and Tamika Mallory and send Anita Turner and
so many others are helping to highlight the importance of
our economic power and working in coalition with folks like
the Black Chamber to remind folks that we have always
(41:20):
had everything we need to provide for our community. That's
number two, and then number three is to remain engaged civically.
All of us should be clear about who our elected
and appointed leaders are, especially at the local election. Too
often it is the case because we don't teach civics,
because there are people and positions of power who actively
(41:43):
work to make it difficult for people to vote or
otherwise engage civically, we don't do it as much as
we should, and that includes during non presidential election years.
The reality is that we are in the next election
cycle now, and my hope is that people have found
or will soon find, including through the State of the
People Tour, a home where they are growing in their
(42:07):
organizing such that they are leveraging their civic power by
electing and holding elected leaders accountable for working on our behalf.
My hope again is that the black papers are a
useful tool in that exercise, but that people really understand
and own their power and exercise it in all of
(42:27):
the ways civically with a capital C.
Speaker 4 (42:30):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Sure, now you know before I let you go, we
have listeners all over the country. I know that this
is a ten city tour. There's bound to be people
who might want to go to this but can't make
it physically. Is there a way to participate virtually? Is
(42:51):
there a way to maybe donate? Is there a way
to get information? Is there some like connective tissue maybe website,
social media, emails, whatever it is that you have it
that our.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Listeners can use who may not be able to show up.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Yeah, I appreciate the answer is yes to all of
those questions, and I hope that everyone will visit the
website State of thepp L dot com. That's the same
user name across all digital platforms, including Twitter. We're going
forever call it Twitter in spite of that petulant child
who likes to break and steal things.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
So that's one.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
The second is it's important for me to name that
this ten city tour is an opportunity for us to
affirm the work that we know is happening in so
many communities throughout the country. Our hope is that the resources,
the energy, the infrastructure that's being fortified by the tour
(43:47):
will be leveraged by folks who are doing this work
in cities that we will not have the opportunity to
visit before the Juneteenth convening that has been planned. And
what we know is that democracies have to be defended constantly.
And so I want people to hear me when I
say that this is not the end of the work.
This is the beginning of what will be the best
(44:10):
which is yet to come. And so again, download the
resources we have, tap into the existing infrastructure, including the
city lead who have now amassed additional best practices and
how to do some of this work, so that it
can fuel the work that is already happening. And if
it's not happening, where you are, and you want to
use this to get things started.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
Let's do that too.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
My hope is that it is it is empowering more
than it is disempowering for folks who will not be
physically touched by the tour, and that we also leverage
the resources that exist in things like digital platforms and
powerful podcast networks.
Speaker 4 (44:49):
Like this one, so we can fill some of these
critical gaps now.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
And I know I've said this before, but I can't
let you go unless I at least ask. I know
that right now you're doing the State of the People tour,
and I of course people are going to want to
tap in.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
I want people to tap in.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
But the work that you're doing as an individual leader,
I think that that deserves you a mention as well,
because there are people who are going to listen to
this conversation and say, this person is walking the path
that is righteous, that is just, and I need to
support him. I need to follow him, I need to
keep up with him. Is it possible do you have
(45:25):
any of that connective tissue for people to tap in
with you directly and support you on your way. I do.
Speaker 4 (45:31):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 3 (45:32):
I appreciate that because the occupant of the Oval Office
is a litigious, petulant child. I should say that by
remarks over the course of this conversation reflect my individual thoughts,
not that of the organization that I lead, which has
a C three, But that organization is the National Block
just as collective. The website is NBJC dot org. We
(45:56):
are INBJC on the move. The team would be angry
with me if I didn't say in this moment that
we're really excited about Equity Week June tenth through the
fourteenth will produce a series of events very much aligned
with the heart and the mission of State of the
People in Washington, d C. Those events will include out
(46:18):
on the Hill, legislative advocacy sessions with members of Congress
on both sides of the aisle, a historic ball Equity
Ball not black tie, Jack and Jill Gala evoked the
House Down Polls ball at Howard Theater on Friday, June thirteenth,
(46:39):
and some related activities that honor our ancestors, including Brother
bid Rustin, the architect of the March on Washington for
Jobs and Freedom, and sixty three, the mentor godfather to
the children of and confidant of doctor Martin Luther King,
the person who's responsible for us having nonviolence all disobedience
(47:01):
because he studied at the feet of monks, including Gandhi
and brought those teaching backs. Uh, brought those teachings rather
back imbued with his religious tradition as a Quaker, to
help advance these collective movements to get us all both
free and liberated. So folks can learn about that at
(47:22):
NBJC dot org or via our Equity Week event, pright
event bright page.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Listen, this has been insightful.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
UH, it's necessary and long overdue, and and it's it's
been a joy. I salute you, I just before you go.
You know, we we sit in a studio with a
symbolic roundtable. You know, we built the platform in terms
(47:52):
of our radio show, built the platform that could highlight
the voices and the people that were supporting us black
people in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
We wanted to make sure that we had a space
to share.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
Because we were radio guys, Me and Q we do
where DJ's you know, giveaway concert tickets, that type of
radio guys. And we felt that this show was necessary
and we knew that we might be able to tell
one story, but there are a lot of stories out there,
and one of the most challenging stories since then to
(48:30):
get on the show is someone who is competent, you know,
in media, to come up and talk about.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
What it's like to be.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Homosexual in a hostile environment and the rare opportunities we've
had to have those conversations. They've been illuminating and necessary
and heartbreaking, but it's been it's been very important for
us in terms of building bridges. It's been very important
for our listeners in terms of building bridges and making
(49:05):
sure that oh I had no idea that that's what
that looked like, that that's what it felt like to
live under that reality, in that reality.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
And so today's conversation.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Normally, when when when I let people go, it's like, well,
thank you for the time, thank you for the work
that you're doing. You know, good luck and godspeed. We're
here if you need us. I want to just put
a little bit more emphasis on that, because what you're
doing matters, you know, the humanity that you affirm, not
not for yourself but for everyone, you know, black people
(49:36):
in general, but everyone, and then of course more specifically
for people who identify uh in in the various ways
that are. You know we're discussing today is so necessary.
A world without these vulnerable communities is a worse world
(49:57):
than a world that it would be inconceivable to live in.
And it may or may not be challenging. You may
or may not need additional fortitude. But I wanted to
take this moment to just pour into you a little
bit more. We built this with this roundtable for you,
so this and for people like you, but for you.
(50:18):
You know, we're having this conversation today, so I want
to make sure that I extend it.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
The right way.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
When and if you feel you ever need a platform,
you need an audience, you need a microphone, please come
back and see your brothers here on this on this show,
see us on our other show. You know we we're
here to support you. That's the that's the whole point.
We can't tell the stories, but we can do radio,
we can do podcasting, but we can't tell the stories
because we haven't lived that life. And so just be encouraged,
(50:44):
keep walking the walk and know you got you know,
a couple of brothers here that'll that will help you.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
If you need us, just give us a.
Speaker 4 (50:49):
Caller, right, don't tell me what a good time.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
Listen, man, we're here on this. This ain't lip service, man,
I promise you I've.
Speaker 3 (50:56):
Received that the soul, food and the thoughtfulness with which
you have engaged in this conversation. Thank you to both
you and to Q. I very much look forward to
continuing to build once again.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
Today's guest is doctor David J.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
Johns, who serves as the CEO and Executive director of
the National Black Justice Collective. This has been a production
of the Black Information Network. Today's show is produced by
Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts you'd like to share, use
the red microphone talkback feature on the iHeartRadio app. While
you're there, be sure to hit subscribe and download all
of our episodes.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
I am your host
Speaker 1 (51:33):
Ramsey's Jaw on all social media and join us tomorrow
as we share our news with our voice from our
perspective right here on the Black Information Network Daily Podcast
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