May 21, 2025 • 30 mins
Today we conclude our two part conversation with Dedrick Asante-Muhammad, President of the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies. He joins Hosts Ramses Ja and Q Ward to discuss some of the critical issues the Joint Center is working to address that impact Black communities.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And now part two of our two part conversation with
the president of the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies,
Diedrich Assante Muhammad. This is the Black Information Network Daily podcast.
I'm your host, Rams's job, all right, So while we're here,
what are your thoughts on apps like uh spill and
(00:22):
fan Base and black Planet, these black owned apps.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
You know, how do they fit into our black life?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Well, I mean, I think it is. I mean, I
think those are almost two different questions, But how do
they fit into our black life? And you know, kind
of what is the space and importance of them? You know,
I think it is essential, you know, just as a
good center is advocating to make sure that you know,
black voice, black representation occurs at the government level, we
also feel that it's important.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
You know.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
It's interesting that a lot of our early founders were
very much connected to journalism and communications, and now in
the twenty first century, so much of communications is through
the Internet and social media, and so we do think
it's important to have black voices in this space as well.
And I think, you know, the challenges that black institutions
(01:14):
face in general of being under capitalized, of not being
utilized or promoted as much as other institutions and making
sure that our perspectives are put forth, you know, in
their networks is something that you know, black black media companies,
black tech companies are still facing challenging and we are
(01:36):
looking away to support, you know, we talked a lot
about different types of carve outs for section two thirty one.
Thing we've also put forward is this idea of a
size based exemption. That would mean that bigger companies, large
companies that have you know, over five million users, over
one hundred million dollars in revenue, you know, could be
(01:58):
held more liable for what their you know, users are posting.
But we don't want to inhibit the smaller companies that
are trying to you know, just kind of develop.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
Their staff in order to serve their basic needs.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
So we are looking at ways of better promoting you know,
black black internet media companies, black platforms because you know,
they still aren't as big as you know, as we
think it's needed in today's kind of communications network.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah, to be fair, we uh, we were able to
have a conversation a few actually with.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
The founder of fan base.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
His name is Isaac CA's the thirties, the son of
the famous Isaac's the same and uh, you know he was.
He was mentioning how his entire business model was not
based around traditional funding. It wasn't based around traditional development,
It wasn't aund anything traditional. It was optimized for maximum
(03:04):
benefit to black people. Black people could invest and own
a part of the business.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
It was.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
It was optimized for black creators so that they could
be compensated for their work, et cetera. And the only
thing that he was working on at present or when
we last spoke, was kind of scaling it up. And
so your point is well made about having you know,
a different set of rules and responsibilities for you know,
different tiers. If you will, you know, where there's more,
(03:33):
where you reach more people, you have more responsibility.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Where you reach less people.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
You have kind of the freedom to grow, and that,
you know what you what you said is is kind
of consistent with my understanding of what it takes to
actually get a business like that and scale it.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Because the truth.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Of the matter is that once Elon Musk took over Twitter,
you know, a lot of us around here we felt
like that was Initially we weren't concerned as much. It
was just like an interesting development, but once he took
(04:10):
the safeguards off of the inward and he called himself
a free speech absolutist, and we saw that the increase
of the inWORD was like, I don't know how much
percent it was, but it was some wild number.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
And it was like, well, why.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Would we participate in you know, every post that we
make creates content for him to monetize. Why would we
give him our inside, our thoughts, our creativity. And so
we all collectively decided that was enough. And then later,
of course, he famously did that Nazi salute on the stage,
(04:45):
and you know, we're like, yeah, there's no way. And
then of course, having a conversation with Isaac case the third,
you start to realize that these alternatives are viable. They're
just not You just don't have the audience. And a
lot of people it's been really tough to leave a
Twitter because they built their audience there, and if they
(05:06):
go to to like a site like spill or fan base,
the one in question right now, they start essentially with
zero or they're you know, just their friends that are
already there. And so it's interesting how these regulations uh
kind of you mentioned earlier that some help and some hurt,
but we're we're still kind of finding our way through
(05:28):
through the weeds, if you will. So I guess that
leads me to my next question. You know, as as
a people, besides you know, protecting our own online interests,
what is let's call it, what is one piece of
advice that you would offer to black people for surviving
this administration?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
And it doesn't necessarily.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Have to be like for their online you know, content
or consumption or whatever, but you know, someone like you
can can really offer advice to the every person who's
just kind of like overwhelmed by the muzzle velocity of
you know, developments from this.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
Ration.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
So your thoughts, No, it's I mean, you know, and.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
I think it's you know, we always have to moderate
for ourselves the amount of information that we are taking in.
It doesn't mean I'm not pushing forward that we should
be ignorant. I think it's important to stay informed, but
it's also not to be overwhelmed. Right, You can be
overwhelmed with horrible conditions happening in different parts of the world,
are overwhelmed with climate change, or you could be overwhelmed
(06:31):
with if you don't like the executive orders that Trump
is putting forward, and he's putting out more than any
president ever has, and you you could easily be overwhelmed
by that. So and you know, and part of that
is and it was a say a little earlier. It's
you know, these are new issues in a way, but
they're part of the same struggle and that we're always
having to fight for. Where is the space that black
(06:56):
people can lead in control sometimes have a safe space,
We sometimes have a space where we can hear voices
similar to ours and not just be overwhelmed with others
perspectives on things that is alienating to us and our reality, right,
And I do think, you know, online social platforms have
(07:18):
been a place for us to go to, but I think,
you know, the challenge we're seeing is that we own
so little of these spaces and have kind of been
taking refuge in platforms that are led and controlled by
others and wasn't designed, you know, to be our spaces.
And so you know, this is something that you know,
(07:39):
I think it is interesting that the Joint Center helped
create the National Association of Black Journalists to help create,
you know, strengthen this space and journalism for black voices
and black conversation and in the twenty first century, this
is more in the technology side of you know, where
is our safe spaces and ability to gather information that
(07:59):
we think can be building for us and not just
tearing us down.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
That's that's interesting. I didn't realize that the the inn
abj that that y'all had a hand in like creating that.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Yeah, Lewis Martin, one of our founders, was a it's interesting,
how Yeah, Lewis Martin, one of our founders, Frank Reeves,
our first president, how much how many of them? And
I guess you have to remember, like three sixty five,
one of the closest ways to get to politics if
you're black, since a lot of blacks couldn't vote and
(08:35):
you're not going to be elected to office, was to
write about it. And so a lot of the journalists
were the people who knew most about politics, you know,
political journalist. And Lewis Martin was, you know, involved in
every administration back to.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Jees.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
It might have been Roosevelt, Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy, Nixon, you know,
and came through this through his running newspapers, black newspapers,
helping politicians understand how to communicate, and so this kind
of led to us, you know, recognizing the deep connection
between politics and communication. And I think really what's happened
(09:12):
over the last five ten years is we're seeing how
much that is connected with technology, you know, and I
think there's maybe nothing that symbolizes that more than the
tech billionaires that are all standing behind Trump in his
most second inauguration.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
I think.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Yeah, previous to that, they try to distance themselves a
little bit, acting like they weren't that involved, but historically
they all have been. You know, it's communications is a
key part of politics.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that just to add to that,
you know, I for folks that are unfamiliar, just take
a look at or google Cambridge Analytica and you'll see
kind of how deep this goes. And it's interesting to
see these folks play both sides. And ultimately, you know,
(10:03):
we're the ones that end up in the trough, right,
We're the ones that end up being consumed uh, and
we are we are being sold uh and bought and sold.
And once I think people continue to or once people
(10:23):
like realize that, I think it becomes a moral duty
to distance yourself from especially a site like a Twitter,
regardless of you know, the platform that you've built there
effectively recognize that you've built it for someone else.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Well, yes, because I think that is that was kind
of confusing thing people talking about black Twitter being almost
like a black liberation organization or frame. But you know,
you have to we say black Twitter, but Twitter was first,
meaning it was a Twitter company that maybe blacks are on, right,
It's not like black Washington Post, right, or New York Times.
(11:01):
I mean, you might have a part of New York Times,
you have a lot of black authors and maybe even
some type of discussion group, but it's still run as
the New York Times, as the Washington Post, and the
black component will be controlled, you know, and limited or
promoted as those on top see it that maybe aren't
or that aren't focused primarily on advancing black well being.
(11:22):
And so yeah, it's you know, and I'm glad to
the extent that there's a greater recognition that we do
need spaces led by us. So of course we'll always
be involved in spaces that you know, are led by others,
but we need both.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah, yeah, And I think that's that's key because it's
I'm not like a separatist, I'm not you know, and
I think that we're here and we have the capacity
to figure out this society in such a way that
it works well enough for everyone and it doesn't consume
(11:56):
one group and feed another group, right, And I think
that's what we see right now. You mentioned kind of
wealth inequality, and we didn't get to like, you know,
maternal healthcare in general outcomes. We didn't get to housing issues,
we didn't get to you know, car soral issues and disparities,
we didn't get to a lot of different things that again,
(12:17):
they consume one group or a couple of groups, and
then they feed effectively, they feed another group, right or
protect or insulate another group.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
And so.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I think that it's possible for us to get there.
I think that there's a lot of powerful people that
are well financed one way or the other and very influential.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
And you know, we whenever we round one corner.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
The opposition, the backlashes is swift and it is notable.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
And I think that but.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
And it's consistent, right, like that is looking more at
the history of the Joint Center, was thinking a lot
about nineteen you know, nineteen seventy, first ten years, you know,
all this building up and you know, even conservative Republicans
like Nixon, we're talking about we're trying to capture phrases
like black power and put that into some type of
capitalistic economic framework, right, but still was trying to use
(13:19):
the language of the black freedom struggle.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
And then it was a nineteen eighty with Ronald Reagan.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Really there was a pushback where Reagan was talking about
getting rid of the Department of Education, which a federal
Department of Education coming under Carter was looked at as
a key way to deal with some of these issues
that there was still wrapping their heads around desegregating, you know,
schools and trying to have more equality in schools and
having a federal Department of Education, and you know, there
(13:46):
was a pushback into the Reagan administration.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
They didn't actually.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Get rid of the Department of Education, but there was
discussion around that and breaking down many of the civil
rights offices that had been developed in the sixties and seventies.
Think we're seeing similar to that in twenty twenty five.
And once I like to notice my mother it's from Dothan, Alabama,
and she was noting that as a young woman, she
(14:09):
was fascinated that when there finally were federal laws that
said you couldn't have segregated libraries, you couldn't have segregated parks.
You know, black, black bench and a white bench. They
had to be integrated. Her local town's initial reaction was,
they took away all the seats. They took away all
the seats in the library, It took away all the
(14:30):
seats in the zoo, in the public spaces, so blacks
and whites wouldn't be able to sit together because there.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
Were no seats.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
And so just even at that point, now the people
willing and institutions willing to harm the citizens because white
people couldn't sit down either. Yeah, but they were just
you know, so we're always dealing with two steps forward
ideally and one step back. Sometimes it's one step forward
and two steps back. Yeah, but if you understand the history,
that's just part of what we have to deal with
(14:57):
to kind of move this country kicking and screaming up forward.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Sure. Sure, and and I think that.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
At least in my my lifetime, my adult lifetime, I
should say I think that, And and and there's there's
there's been people have written about Donald Trump's uh connection
to this phenomenon. But I would take it a step further,
(15:27):
and UH suggest that in my lifetime, the election of
George Bush and later the election of Donald Trump have
been in a response to black progress, notable black progress,
because outside of that, you know, by comparison, George Bush
(15:47):
looks like a genius and a saint, you know, in
my estimation to Donald Trump. But you know, I do
remember at the time when George but Bush was was running.
I know that politics is you know, I've be sleave
politics as politics, and you know, there's corruption on both
sides and all those arguments.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
I'll see those entirely. But I don't know.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
If I'll ever if it'll ever occur to me the
way that it did to other people, that George Bush
was the best person to represent the interests of the
Republican Party.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
But somehow, either his agenda or his namesake or some
somehow there was enough there to get him get him elected, right.
And I don't think it was based on his cognitive abilities.
I don't think, you know, I don't think it was
anything like that. I don't think it was based on
his temperament, none of that stuff. Not he was certainly
not an eloquent speaker, none of those things right that
(16:44):
you would you would you know, connect with a great leader.
And then obviously Donald Trump was a backlash to Obama, right,
and uh, you know.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
Was elected with zero political there you go.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
And well, so here's the craziest part. Donald Trump, specifically,
right before everyone went to cast their their votes, was
on video. And I know you know this and everyone
knows this, but he was on video. There was a
there was an audio recording rather him saying that you
get to walk up to women and grab them by
(17:24):
their their privates, you know, if you're a celebrity. And
then half of this country said, yep, that's who we
want to be the president. Not because he represents the office,
not because none of those things, because he represents the
interest of a facet of people that are willing to
look past that and say, look, if this guy is
gonna you know, shape the country in such a way
(17:48):
that it works for me, then so be it. Meanwhile,
you know, Bill Clinton, you know, these are the presidents
in my lifetime.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Bill Clinton was.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
You know, he didn't really come across as though he
was a brilliant mind.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
But Bill Clinton is a Rhodes scholar, right.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Obama, he is a Harvard educated lawyer, right, and Joe Biden,
to be fair, was a career politician. He'd been in
politics for a million years. Everyone knows that, and he
was sort of the right person. He could appeal to
enough of the people that didn't want to vote for Trump.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
And vice president senator for forever.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
There you go, exactly exactly, so he fit in that box.
But then what did he do? He made Kamala Harris
his vice president. And so the backlash as I as
I've come to associate it, and I know that it's
not all Republicans and not all white folks or whatever,
but enough of them are willing to look past that
fact that, look, this guy is shaping the country in
(18:56):
this way, and this guy is shaping the country in
that way.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
And I will stay in line along with and.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
I've said this in a recent episode, I'll stand in
line along with the Nazis and the ku Klux Klan
and the most extreme, most violent, most racist facets of
this country, because the country that they want to see
and that this man who's running for president wants to see,
is the one most aligned with what I want to see.
And they will even tell themselves that if Jesus was alive,
(19:23):
he'd be standing in this line with us because we
all would want the same country, right.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
And that's the part that blows my mind.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
And I feel that at least a part of what
is taking place over there is a response to that.
And I know that's a bit of a tangent, but
I mean, I think that this conversation has kind of
helped helped flesh out a lot of those truths, especially
your story that your mom shared with you about the
park benches. There's people who willing to walk around and
not sit. If it means that black people don't get
(19:52):
to sit, they will harm themselves. It's a crazy tim.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
It's you know, and just got to build off a
bit of what you're saying. You know, it is interesting
that you know Lyndon Johnson said when he signed I
guess was a sixty five voting Rights Act, that the
Democrats have lost the South for I don't know if
you said a generation, two generations, but honestly, since that
time period, Democrats have not won the majority of the
(20:17):
white vote. For every election since the mid sixties, Democrats
have lost the majority of the white vote once it
became associated with civil rights. And that's you know, that's
a sad comment that something like that, which I think
most people in the United States today will say, black
and white that getting past segregated South and civil rights legislation.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Was good. Though I say that that most people would
say that.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
But I will note that some of Trump's executive orders
did end some of Lyndon Johnson's Equal Employment and Equal
Opportunity executive orders from the nineteen sixties. So you know,
there clearly is parts of the country that aren't even
willing to embrace. You know that historic pieces of legislation
(21:11):
and executive orders that generally people promote is a step
forward for the country.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Hey, what's up.
Speaker 6 (21:18):
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That civ C cip H e R right here in
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Speaker 1 (21:50):
We are here today with the president of the Joint
Center for Political and Economic Studies, diedrich Asante Mohammad. Well,
I mean with that in mind, I think that it's
it's good to have conversations like this with the person
such as yourself heading up the Joint Center for Political
(22:12):
and Economic Studies. You know, we've been told on this
show that our work now is more important than ever
so that's something i'd like to share with you. You know,
the work that you do now is more important than
ever before. So with that in mind, talk to us
a little bit about maybe what you're looking forward to
next steps, you know, what you're currently working on. If
(22:35):
you can't, don't let a cat out of the back
or anything, but you know something that we can look
forward to, because a lot of us are hoping for
something around the corner or so.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Yeah, well, and I think you know, one of the
things that we're looking forward to what you're doing right
now is being in better communication and using communication networks
like ourselves right because it's you know, I think maybe
on the fifties, sixties, what have you in your early seventies.
The idea of a think tank is is that you know,
you're writing some important work. You're writing one hundred page paper,
(23:04):
two hundred page paper. You're going to share that to
other experts in d C and it'll eventually get to
congressional staff, and that's how you're going to influence the world.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
But now with you know.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Much more democratized communications process, we need to be in
communication with people, you know, people at large, and not
just through one hundred page you know, we can write
our briefs and write our three twenty page briefs on
this six on this seventy page focus on section two thirty,
(23:36):
but it's really through you know, conversations like this that
we're going to be reaching much more people and having
the impact needed because it's not just experts, it's the
voting public that needs to understand these issues and figure
out how they want to take this information and moving
forward to their political agenda, so you know, exciting. One
huge thing that we're going to joint center is to
(23:56):
make sure that the analysis we're doing is being better
communicated to the public at large and having stronger relations
with communication networks like yourself, you know, and I'll put
forward that I think, you know, things coming up. The
two biggest things happening politically is the discussion around the
tax cuts and job ACKs. Trump called him to the
(24:18):
Trump tax cuts and many of those had a are
coming to an end by twenty twenty six, and so
there needs to be new legislation that would either keep
some of those tax cuts going and those tax cuts
or add more tax cuts. And you know, and why
(24:39):
is that important? Because it is through the tax system
that the United States government is doing its greatest investment
in wealth building. You know, I think people always say,
we can't afford to, you know, do these programs or
strengthen wealth building for poor, middle income communities. We've always
liked to note that over eight hundred billion dollars each
year from the government is going into wealth building. The
(25:02):
problem is most of that money is going to the
already wealthy, so it's further concentrating wealth through a regressive
tax code. So this is the opportunity to talk about
what type of tax code do we want. Do we
want earned income tax credits, child tax credits for working families,
or do we want tax cuts for multi billion dollar
(25:22):
corporations or multimillionaires, or we're going to try to do both,
which could bankrupt the government and take away Social Security, medicare,
basic programs that are so essential to so many Americans. So,
you know, tax policy sounds wonkish and sounds something you
don't want to deal with, but it's really foundational to
our lives, into our parents' lives and community.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
So trying to help get that.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Message out more to the public and to African American
community in particular.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Sure, sure, okay, well how about this Just because that
and I'm sure many other things are on the path
that we're all on collectively, one of the things that
we'd like to ask is how can we support How
can some people can support financially, So make sure to
(26:12):
share that some people can support, you know, in other
ways by you know, subscribing or sending a like or whatever.
Some people can be informed, you know, at their social
media websites. Maybe people have ideas that can share. So
let's let's share the infrastructure with with our listeners.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
No, you've you've laid out that, you know. I think.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
For Joint Center to be what it needs to be,
it needs to have strong communications network. We need to
have you know, more of our funding come from individual
donors from black communities that we're trying to represent. And
so you can always go to the website you can
donate there you don't, and you know it can be
you know, some of my favorite donors are people just
(26:56):
give ten dollars a month, twenty dollars a month, systantly
do that right, and it makes our work more possible.
And then you know, we do social media. We have
Facebook and we still have Twitter. We're gonna have a
blue Sky, we have Instagram. Uh, you know, we have
we have newsletters that focus on these different areas of tech,
(27:17):
of economics, of government, diversity, and then just a newsletter
on the work of the Joint Center for Political Economic Studies.
You can go to a website and sign up for
any one of those that come out monthly or all
of them, and then also you know, recommend it's great
to be part of a national think tank, but it's
also important for you to make sure that you're connected
to a local organizations in your area because you really
(27:39):
can't advocate politically if you're not connected to the community
you're based in. So you know, if there's a local NAACP,
a local urban league, a local Malcolm X grassroots movement,
or you don't see any local organizations, but you want
to have a local, you know, conversation group to talk
about some of these issues. You know, it's important that
(28:00):
you also have you know, your own networks that you're
comfortable with as you're supporting national organizations like the Joint
Center for Political and Economic Studies.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
But it's uh, you.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Know, and some of this can be done online, but
I do believe some of this has to be done
in person because in person networks and contacts just kind
of strike and connect in a way that it's hard
to do online.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Okay, So I want to make sure that I share this,
and I think the easiest way to get all of
this information is Jointcenter dot org. Right, and right at
the top all of the social media links and the
(28:41):
capacity to donate, to to plug in in other meaningful
ways to communicate.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
It's kind of right at the top. So again, Joint
Center dot org.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
I have that, right, that's correct, thank you?
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Okay, perfect.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
So, so you know, for everyone that's listening, you know,
there's there's now a way to kind of keep the
conversation going or to plug in and help support because
there are a lot of people, as you well know,
that are either disillusioned or disheartened, frustrated, afraid, and you
(29:15):
know there and that usually comes with the desire to respond.
And so again for those who are able to please
check out Joint Center dot org and you know we're
going to get through this together with that in mind,
I'd like to thank you very much. I know we've
we've talked a little longer than we should have, but
(29:36):
I hope that it's been a pleasant exchange and it
certainly has given me something that I can take forward.
Especially that story about what your mother shared with you
in Alabama. I think that that kind of embodies a
lot of what it is that we deal with here regularly.
But again, I want to thank you for your time,
(29:58):
your insight, and your commitment UH to a more successful
and informed population as we move forward in these uncertain times.
Once again, today's guest is the president of the Joint
Center for Political and Economic Studies, Didrich Asante Muhammad. This
has been a production of the Black Information Network. Today's
(30:20):
show is produced by Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts you'd
like to share? Use the red microphone talkback feature on
the iHeartRadio app. While you're there, be sure to hit
subscribe and download all of our episodes I'm your host,
Ramsey's Jah on all social media, and join us tomorrow
as we share our news with our voice from our
perspective right here on the Black Information Network Daily Podcast
And now part two of our two part conversation with
the president of the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies,
Diedrich Assante Muhammad. This is the Black Information Network Daily podcast.
I'm your host, Rams's job, all right, So while we're here,
what are your thoughts on apps like uh spill and
(00:22):
fan Base and black Planet, these black owned apps.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
You know, how do they fit into our black life?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Well, I mean, I think it is. I mean, I
think those are almost two different questions, But how do
they fit into our black life? And you know, kind
of what is the space and importance of them? You know,
I think it is essential, you know, just as a
good center is advocating to make sure that you know,
black voice, black representation occurs at the government level, we
also feel that it's important.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
You know.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
It's interesting that a lot of our early founders were
very much connected to journalism and communications, and now in
the twenty first century, so much of communications is through
the Internet and social media, and so we do think
it's important to have black voices in this space as well.
And I think, you know, the challenges that black institutions
(01:14):
face in general of being under capitalized, of not being
utilized or promoted as much as other institutions and making
sure that our perspectives are put forth, you know, in
their networks is something that you know, black black media companies,
black tech companies are still facing challenging and we are
(01:36):
looking away to support, you know, we talked a lot
about different types of carve outs for section two thirty one.
Thing we've also put forward is this idea of a
size based exemption. That would mean that bigger companies, large
companies that have you know, over five million users, over
one hundred million dollars in revenue, you know, could be
(01:58):
held more liable for what their you know, users are posting.
But we don't want to inhibit the smaller companies that
are trying to you know, just kind of develop.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
Their staff in order to serve their basic needs.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
So we are looking at ways of better promoting you know,
black black internet media companies, black platforms because you know,
they still aren't as big as you know, as we
think it's needed in today's kind of communications network.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah, to be fair, we uh, we were able to
have a conversation a few actually with.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
The founder of fan base.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
His name is Isaac CA's the thirties, the son of
the famous Isaac's the same and uh, you know he was.
He was mentioning how his entire business model was not
based around traditional funding. It wasn't based around traditional development,
It wasn't aund anything traditional. It was optimized for maximum
(03:04):
benefit to black people. Black people could invest and own
a part of the business.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
It was.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
It was optimized for black creators so that they could
be compensated for their work, et cetera. And the only
thing that he was working on at present or when
we last spoke, was kind of scaling it up. And
so your point is well made about having you know,
a different set of rules and responsibilities for you know,
different tiers. If you will, you know, where there's more,
(03:33):
where you reach more people, you have more responsibility.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Where you reach less people.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
You have kind of the freedom to grow, and that,
you know what you what you said is is kind
of consistent with my understanding of what it takes to
actually get a business like that and scale it.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Because the truth.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Of the matter is that once Elon Musk took over Twitter,
you know, a lot of us around here we felt
like that was Initially we weren't concerned as much. It
was just like an interesting development, but once he took
(04:10):
the safeguards off of the inward and he called himself
a free speech absolutist, and we saw that the increase
of the inWORD was like, I don't know how much
percent it was, but it was some wild number.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
And it was like, well, why.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Would we participate in you know, every post that we
make creates content for him to monetize. Why would we
give him our inside, our thoughts, our creativity. And so
we all collectively decided that was enough. And then later,
of course, he famously did that Nazi salute on the stage,
(04:45):
and you know, we're like, yeah, there's no way. And
then of course, having a conversation with Isaac case the third,
you start to realize that these alternatives are viable. They're
just not You just don't have the audience. And a
lot of people it's been really tough to leave a
Twitter because they built their audience there, and if they
(05:06):
go to to like a site like spill or fan base,
the one in question right now, they start essentially with
zero or they're you know, just their friends that are
already there. And so it's interesting how these regulations uh
kind of you mentioned earlier that some help and some hurt,
but we're we're still kind of finding our way through
(05:28):
through the weeds, if you will. So I guess that
leads me to my next question. You know, as as
a people, besides you know, protecting our own online interests,
what is let's call it, what is one piece of
advice that you would offer to black people for surviving
this administration?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
And it doesn't necessarily.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Have to be like for their online you know, content
or consumption or whatever, but you know, someone like you
can can really offer advice to the every person who's
just kind of like overwhelmed by the muzzle velocity of
you know, developments from this.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
Ration.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
So your thoughts, No, it's I mean, you know, and.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
I think it's you know, we always have to moderate
for ourselves the amount of information that we are taking in.
It doesn't mean I'm not pushing forward that we should
be ignorant. I think it's important to stay informed, but
it's also not to be overwhelmed. Right, You can be
overwhelmed with horrible conditions happening in different parts of the world,
are overwhelmed with climate change, or you could be overwhelmed
(06:31):
with if you don't like the executive orders that Trump
is putting forward, and he's putting out more than any
president ever has, and you you could easily be overwhelmed
by that. So and you know, and part of that
is and it was a say a little earlier. It's
you know, these are new issues in a way, but
they're part of the same struggle and that we're always
having to fight for. Where is the space that black
(06:56):
people can lead in control sometimes have a safe space,
We sometimes have a space where we can hear voices
similar to ours and not just be overwhelmed with others
perspectives on things that is alienating to us and our reality, right,
And I do think, you know, online social platforms have
(07:18):
been a place for us to go to, but I think,
you know, the challenge we're seeing is that we own
so little of these spaces and have kind of been
taking refuge in platforms that are led and controlled by
others and wasn't designed, you know, to be our spaces.
And so you know, this is something that you know,
(07:39):
I think it is interesting that the Joint Center helped
create the National Association of Black Journalists to help create,
you know, strengthen this space and journalism for black voices
and black conversation and in the twenty first century, this
is more in the technology side of you know, where
is our safe spaces and ability to gather information that
(07:59):
we think can be building for us and not just
tearing us down.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
That's that's interesting. I didn't realize that the the inn
abj that that y'all had a hand in like creating that.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Yeah, Lewis Martin, one of our founders, was a it's interesting,
how Yeah, Lewis Martin, one of our founders, Frank Reeves,
our first president, how much how many of them? And
I guess you have to remember, like three sixty five,
one of the closest ways to get to politics if
you're black, since a lot of blacks couldn't vote and
(08:35):
you're not going to be elected to office, was to
write about it. And so a lot of the journalists
were the people who knew most about politics, you know,
political journalist. And Lewis Martin was, you know, involved in
every administration back to.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Jees.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
It might have been Roosevelt, Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy, Nixon, you know,
and came through this through his running newspapers, black newspapers,
helping politicians understand how to communicate, and so this kind
of led to us, you know, recognizing the deep connection
between politics and communication. And I think really what's happened
(09:12):
over the last five ten years is we're seeing how
much that is connected with technology, you know, and I
think there's maybe nothing that symbolizes that more than the
tech billionaires that are all standing behind Trump in his
most second inauguration.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
I think.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Yeah, previous to that, they try to distance themselves a
little bit, acting like they weren't that involved, but historically
they all have been. You know, it's communications is a
key part of politics.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that just to add to that,
you know, I for folks that are unfamiliar, just take
a look at or google Cambridge Analytica and you'll see
kind of how deep this goes. And it's interesting to
see these folks play both sides. And ultimately, you know,
(10:03):
we're the ones that end up in the trough, right,
We're the ones that end up being consumed uh, and
we are we are being sold uh and bought and sold.
And once I think people continue to or once people
(10:23):
like realize that, I think it becomes a moral duty
to distance yourself from especially a site like a Twitter,
regardless of you know, the platform that you've built there
effectively recognize that you've built it for someone else.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Well, yes, because I think that is that was kind
of confusing thing people talking about black Twitter being almost
like a black liberation organization or frame. But you know,
you have to we say black Twitter, but Twitter was first,
meaning it was a Twitter company that maybe blacks are on, right,
It's not like black Washington Post, right, or New York Times.
(11:01):
I mean, you might have a part of New York Times,
you have a lot of black authors and maybe even
some type of discussion group, but it's still run as
the New York Times, as the Washington Post, and the
black component will be controlled, you know, and limited or
promoted as those on top see it that maybe aren't
or that aren't focused primarily on advancing black well being.
(11:22):
And so yeah, it's you know, and I'm glad to
the extent that there's a greater recognition that we do
need spaces led by us. So of course we'll always
be involved in spaces that you know, are led by others,
but we need both.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah, yeah, And I think that's that's key because it's
I'm not like a separatist, I'm not you know, and
I think that we're here and we have the capacity
to figure out this society in such a way that
it works well enough for everyone and it doesn't consume
(11:56):
one group and feed another group, right, And I think
that's what we see right now. You mentioned kind of
wealth inequality, and we didn't get to like, you know,
maternal healthcare in general outcomes. We didn't get to housing issues,
we didn't get to you know, car soral issues and disparities,
we didn't get to a lot of different things that again,
(12:17):
they consume one group or a couple of groups, and
then they feed effectively, they feed another group, right or
protect or insulate another group.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
And so.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I think that it's possible for us to get there.
I think that there's a lot of powerful people that
are well financed one way or the other and very influential.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
And you know, we whenever we round one corner.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
The opposition, the backlashes is swift and it is notable.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
And I think that but.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
And it's consistent, right, like that is looking more at
the history of the Joint Center, was thinking a lot
about nineteen you know, nineteen seventy, first ten years, you know,
all this building up and you know, even conservative Republicans
like Nixon, we're talking about we're trying to capture phrases
like black power and put that into some type of
capitalistic economic framework, right, but still was trying to use
(13:19):
the language of the black freedom struggle.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
And then it was a nineteen eighty with Ronald Reagan.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Really there was a pushback where Reagan was talking about
getting rid of the Department of Education, which a federal
Department of Education coming under Carter was looked at as
a key way to deal with some of these issues
that there was still wrapping their heads around desegregating, you know,
schools and trying to have more equality in schools and
having a federal Department of Education, and you know, there
(13:46):
was a pushback into the Reagan administration.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
They didn't actually.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Get rid of the Department of Education, but there was
discussion around that and breaking down many of the civil
rights offices that had been developed in the sixties and seventies.
Think we're seeing similar to that in twenty twenty five.
And once I like to notice my mother it's from Dothan, Alabama,
and she was noting that as a young woman, she
(14:09):
was fascinated that when there finally were federal laws that
said you couldn't have segregated libraries, you couldn't have segregated parks.
You know, black, black bench and a white bench. They
had to be integrated. Her local town's initial reaction was,
they took away all the seats. They took away all
the seats in the library, It took away all the
(14:30):
seats in the zoo, in the public spaces, so blacks
and whites wouldn't be able to sit together because there.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
Were no seats.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
And so just even at that point, now the people
willing and institutions willing to harm the citizens because white
people couldn't sit down either. Yeah, but they were just
you know, so we're always dealing with two steps forward
ideally and one step back. Sometimes it's one step forward
and two steps back. Yeah, but if you understand the history,
that's just part of what we have to deal with
(14:57):
to kind of move this country kicking and screaming up forward.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Sure. Sure, and and I think that.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
At least in my my lifetime, my adult lifetime, I
should say I think that, And and and there's there's
there's been people have written about Donald Trump's uh connection
to this phenomenon. But I would take it a step further,
(15:27):
and UH suggest that in my lifetime, the election of
George Bush and later the election of Donald Trump have
been in a response to black progress, notable black progress,
because outside of that, you know, by comparison, George Bush
(15:47):
looks like a genius and a saint, you know, in
my estimation to Donald Trump. But you know, I do
remember at the time when George but Bush was was running.
I know that politics is you know, I've be sleave
politics as politics, and you know, there's corruption on both
sides and all those arguments.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
I'll see those entirely. But I don't know.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
If I'll ever if it'll ever occur to me the
way that it did to other people, that George Bush
was the best person to represent the interests of the
Republican Party.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
But somehow, either his agenda or his namesake or some
somehow there was enough there to get him get him elected, right.
And I don't think it was based on his cognitive abilities.
I don't think, you know, I don't think it was
anything like that. I don't think it was based on
his temperament, none of that stuff. Not he was certainly
not an eloquent speaker, none of those things right that
(16:44):
you would you would you know, connect with a great leader.
And then obviously Donald Trump was a backlash to Obama, right,
and uh, you know.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
Was elected with zero political there you go.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
And well, so here's the craziest part. Donald Trump, specifically,
right before everyone went to cast their their votes, was
on video. And I know you know this and everyone
knows this, but he was on video. There was a
there was an audio recording rather him saying that you
get to walk up to women and grab them by
(17:24):
their their privates, you know, if you're a celebrity. And
then half of this country said, yep, that's who we
want to be the president. Not because he represents the office,
not because none of those things, because he represents the
interest of a facet of people that are willing to
look past that and say, look, if this guy is
gonna you know, shape the country in such a way
(17:48):
that it works for me, then so be it. Meanwhile,
you know, Bill Clinton, you know, these are the presidents
in my lifetime.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Bill Clinton was.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
You know, he didn't really come across as though he
was a brilliant mind.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
But Bill Clinton is a Rhodes scholar, right.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Obama, he is a Harvard educated lawyer, right, and Joe Biden,
to be fair, was a career politician. He'd been in
politics for a million years. Everyone knows that, and he
was sort of the right person. He could appeal to
enough of the people that didn't want to vote for Trump.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
And vice president senator for forever.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
There you go, exactly exactly, so he fit in that box.
But then what did he do? He made Kamala Harris
his vice president. And so the backlash as I as
I've come to associate it, and I know that it's
not all Republicans and not all white folks or whatever,
but enough of them are willing to look past that
fact that, look, this guy is shaping the country in
(18:56):
this way, and this guy is shaping the country in
that way.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
And I will stay in line along with and.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
I've said this in a recent episode, I'll stand in
line along with the Nazis and the ku Klux Klan
and the most extreme, most violent, most racist facets of
this country, because the country that they want to see
and that this man who's running for president wants to see,
is the one most aligned with what I want to see.
And they will even tell themselves that if Jesus was alive,
(19:23):
he'd be standing in this line with us because we
all would want the same country, right.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
And that's the part that blows my mind.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
And I feel that at least a part of what
is taking place over there is a response to that.
And I know that's a bit of a tangent, but
I mean, I think that this conversation has kind of
helped helped flesh out a lot of those truths, especially
your story that your mom shared with you about the
park benches. There's people who willing to walk around and
not sit. If it means that black people don't get
(19:52):
to sit, they will harm themselves. It's a crazy tim.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
It's you know, and just got to build off a
bit of what you're saying. You know, it is interesting
that you know Lyndon Johnson said when he signed I
guess was a sixty five voting Rights Act, that the
Democrats have lost the South for I don't know if
you said a generation, two generations, but honestly, since that
time period, Democrats have not won the majority of the
(20:17):
white vote. For every election since the mid sixties, Democrats
have lost the majority of the white vote once it
became associated with civil rights. And that's you know, that's
a sad comment that something like that, which I think
most people in the United States today will say, black
and white that getting past segregated South and civil rights legislation.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Was good. Though I say that that most people would
say that.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
But I will note that some of Trump's executive orders
did end some of Lyndon Johnson's Equal Employment and Equal
Opportunity executive orders from the nineteen sixties. So you know,
there clearly is parts of the country that aren't even
willing to embrace. You know that historic pieces of legislation
(21:11):
and executive orders that generally people promote is a step
forward for the country.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Hey, what's up.
Speaker 6 (21:18):
This is Ramsy's Jah and I am q Ward and
we're inviting you to subscribe to Civic Cipher, our weekly
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Speaker 5 (21:26):
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That civ C cip H e R right here in
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Speaker 1 (21:50):
We are here today with the president of the Joint
Center for Political and Economic Studies, diedrich Asante Mohammad. Well,
I mean with that in mind, I think that it's
it's good to have conversations like this with the person
such as yourself heading up the Joint Center for Political
(22:12):
and Economic Studies. You know, we've been told on this
show that our work now is more important than ever
so that's something i'd like to share with you. You know,
the work that you do now is more important than
ever before. So with that in mind, talk to us
a little bit about maybe what you're looking forward to
next steps, you know, what you're currently working on. If
(22:35):
you can't, don't let a cat out of the back
or anything, but you know something that we can look
forward to, because a lot of us are hoping for
something around the corner or so.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Yeah, well, and I think you know, one of the
things that we're looking forward to what you're doing right
now is being in better communication and using communication networks
like ourselves right because it's you know, I think maybe
on the fifties, sixties, what have you in your early seventies.
The idea of a think tank is is that you know,
you're writing some important work. You're writing one hundred page paper,
(23:04):
two hundred page paper. You're going to share that to
other experts in d C and it'll eventually get to
congressional staff, and that's how you're going to influence the world.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
But now with you know.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Much more democratized communications process, we need to be in
communication with people, you know, people at large, and not
just through one hundred page you know, we can write
our briefs and write our three twenty page briefs on
this six on this seventy page focus on section two thirty,
(23:36):
but it's really through you know, conversations like this that
we're going to be reaching much more people and having
the impact needed because it's not just experts, it's the
voting public that needs to understand these issues and figure
out how they want to take this information and moving
forward to their political agenda, so you know, exciting. One
huge thing that we're going to joint center is to
(23:56):
make sure that the analysis we're doing is being better
communicated to the public at large and having stronger relations
with communication networks like yourself, you know, and I'll put
forward that I think, you know, things coming up. The
two biggest things happening politically is the discussion around the
tax cuts and job ACKs. Trump called him to the
(24:18):
Trump tax cuts and many of those had a are
coming to an end by twenty twenty six, and so
there needs to be new legislation that would either keep
some of those tax cuts going and those tax cuts
or add more tax cuts. And you know, and why
(24:39):
is that important? Because it is through the tax system
that the United States government is doing its greatest investment
in wealth building. You know, I think people always say,
we can't afford to, you know, do these programs or
strengthen wealth building for poor, middle income communities. We've always
liked to note that over eight hundred billion dollars each
year from the government is going into wealth building. The
(25:02):
problem is most of that money is going to the
already wealthy, so it's further concentrating wealth through a regressive
tax code. So this is the opportunity to talk about
what type of tax code do we want. Do we
want earned income tax credits, child tax credits for working families,
or do we want tax cuts for multi billion dollar
(25:22):
corporations or multimillionaires, or we're going to try to do both,
which could bankrupt the government and take away Social Security, medicare,
basic programs that are so essential to so many Americans. So,
you know, tax policy sounds wonkish and sounds something you
don't want to deal with, but it's really foundational to
our lives, into our parents' lives and community.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
So trying to help get that.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Message out more to the public and to African American
community in particular.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Sure, sure, okay, well how about this Just because that
and I'm sure many other things are on the path
that we're all on collectively, one of the things that
we'd like to ask is how can we support How
can some people can support financially, So make sure to
(26:12):
share that some people can support, you know, in other
ways by you know, subscribing or sending a like or whatever.
Some people can be informed, you know, at their social
media websites. Maybe people have ideas that can share. So
let's let's share the infrastructure with with our listeners.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
No, you've you've laid out that, you know. I think.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
For Joint Center to be what it needs to be,
it needs to have strong communications network. We need to
have you know, more of our funding come from individual
donors from black communities that we're trying to represent. And
so you can always go to the website you can
donate there you don't, and you know it can be
you know, some of my favorite donors are people just
(26:56):
give ten dollars a month, twenty dollars a month, systantly
do that right, and it makes our work more possible.
And then you know, we do social media. We have
Facebook and we still have Twitter. We're gonna have a
blue Sky, we have Instagram. Uh, you know, we have
we have newsletters that focus on these different areas of tech,
(27:17):
of economics, of government, diversity, and then just a newsletter
on the work of the Joint Center for Political Economic Studies.
You can go to a website and sign up for
any one of those that come out monthly or all
of them, and then also you know, recommend it's great
to be part of a national think tank, but it's
also important for you to make sure that you're connected
to a local organizations in your area because you really
(27:39):
can't advocate politically if you're not connected to the community
you're based in. So you know, if there's a local NAACP,
a local urban league, a local Malcolm X grassroots movement,
or you don't see any local organizations, but you want
to have a local, you know, conversation group to talk
about some of these issues. You know, it's important that
(28:00):
you also have you know, your own networks that you're
comfortable with as you're supporting national organizations like the Joint
Center for Political and Economic Studies.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
But it's uh, you.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Know, and some of this can be done online, but
I do believe some of this has to be done
in person because in person networks and contacts just kind
of strike and connect in a way that it's hard
to do online.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Okay, So I want to make sure that I share this,
and I think the easiest way to get all of
this information is Jointcenter dot org. Right, and right at
the top all of the social media links and the
(28:41):
capacity to donate, to to plug in in other meaningful
ways to communicate.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
It's kind of right at the top. So again, Joint
Center dot org.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
I have that, right, that's correct, thank you?
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Okay, perfect.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
So, so you know, for everyone that's listening, you know,
there's there's now a way to kind of keep the
conversation going or to plug in and help support because
there are a lot of people, as you well know,
that are either disillusioned or disheartened, frustrated, afraid, and you
(29:15):
know there and that usually comes with the desire to respond.
And so again for those who are able to please
check out Joint Center dot org and you know we're
going to get through this together with that in mind,
I'd like to thank you very much. I know we've
we've talked a little longer than we should have, but
(29:36):
I hope that it's been a pleasant exchange and it
certainly has given me something that I can take forward.
Especially that story about what your mother shared with you
in Alabama. I think that that kind of embodies a
lot of what it is that we deal with here regularly.
But again, I want to thank you for your time,
(29:58):
your insight, and your commitment UH to a more successful
and informed population as we move forward in these uncertain times.
Once again, today's guest is the president of the Joint
Center for Political and Economic Studies, Didrich Asante Muhammad. This
has been a production of the Black Information Network. Today's
(30:20):
show is produced by Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts you'd
like to share? Use the red microphone talkback feature on
the iHeartRadio app. While you're there, be sure to hit
subscribe and download all of our episodes I'm your host,
Ramsey's Jah on all social media, and join us tomorrow
as we share our news with our voice from our
perspective right here on the Black Information Network Daily Podcast
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