May 7, 2024 • 43 mins
Host Ramses Ja and Civic Cipher co-host Q Ward offer their thoughts on the Kendrick Lamar vs. Drake feud- one of the biggest rap battles since Biggie v. Tupac.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is the Black Information Network Daily Podcast, and I'm
your host, rams' Ja. And sometimes the amount of stories
that make their way to us means that we simply
can't cover everything that comes our way. But from time
to time, a story just stays with me and bill
compelled to share it with you and give you my thoughts.
And now one more thing. Okay, I think that I
(00:32):
need to retract a statement that I made on this show.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Or I suggested that battling and beef is kind of
just not my favorite.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Maybe hip hop has just kind of gotten past it.
It doesn't really lead to any cool outcomes. You know.
I said a lot of things and I felt them,
and I largely still feel that way. But I've been
listening to Kung Fu Kenny, and every time he comes
out with another record, I listen to the record, and
(01:15):
I'm finding that I'm like riveted to the goings on
in hip hop. Not only that some of Kendrick Lamar's records,
I'll actually like play them a couple of times. And
I got to think, and you know what, maybe maybe
(01:39):
there's a silver lining. Maybe there's you know, I don't
love to see black men argue publicly. I don't think
that that we have other problems as a people that
folks with that level of status could be focusing their
attention on. You know, if you have a problem with
another rapper, you don't have to talk about them. You
don't have to say his name in your music. You
(02:01):
certainly don't have to write songs about other men. Like
if you write songs about women, I'm okay with that,
you know what I mean, But writing songs about men
that you're not in love with just doesn't really feel
like the best use of a pen. You know, write
a song about Palestine to pick a thing you know
or is real if you feel so inclined, whatever your
thing is. But you know, there's hip hop is so powerful.
(02:23):
But the fact is is that if this back and
forth could rope me in, and it did, then that
has to be a silver lining. And for me to
find some music that has some replay value that there
has to be some value there. And so returning to
the show is my favorite person to have these debates with.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Q Ward.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Welcome back.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Thank you you're the.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Person I owe the apology too, So I'm sorry I
was wrong. I stand corrected. This has been very I
don't want to say entertaining. I don't want to say
I don't want to make light of it, because they
still feel like there are two black men, prominent black men,
(03:12):
that are kind of going back and forth. And now
it's gotten to the point where who's saying what's true?
And you know, all this sort of stuff, and people
are grasping at straws and all that sort of stuff.
And I don't like to see any anybody black torn down.
It's just this thing. I've said it publicly on microphones
and I'll say it so I'm not able to talk anymore.
I don't like seeing that. But man, if the world
(03:35):
is not focused on hip hop right now, and to
be fair, hip hop has this very interesting dynamic that
we can put out songs quickly and you can have full,
fleshed conversations in hip hop and you can't do that
in any other type of music. Imagine two country singers
that didn't like each other and dropping dissed country songs
(03:55):
back and forth to in a day. You know that
sort of thing, right, So another thing that's entertainment taining
and the parallels always made to sport, and we're watching
the sport now. I'm not a fan of Island sports.
You know this. I don't like boxing, I don't like
mma fighting. It just makes my stomach turn. What I
(04:19):
found myself paying particular attention to this, and I know
that since we last spoke, like sixteen more dis tracks
came out. So you want to bring folks up to speed,
or you want me to do it, or you know, how.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Do we get here? This is a more difficult conversation
to have than I thought it would be. You don't
know anybody in apology, because like with many of the
things that we talk about, there is a lot of
nuance here. It is not simply one thing or the other,
(04:53):
because everything that you says it doesn't just have merit.
It's how I feel as well, the idea of you
and not having a falling out, because I think it's
kind of the understanding by most of it. At some
point these guys used to at least be cool with
each other. Maybe they weren't friends and the actual definition
of the word, but frequent collaborators tour it together, so
(05:17):
there was at least some amicable times and Ramses and
Q had a falling out, and every day we both
cracked a microphone and got on the air and said
awful things about each other that would suck nobody, even
if they were funny, even if I was a great
punchline writer and so was he, and we went back
and forth and you guys got to laugh and critique
and vote on who won. That would suck. There's another
(05:42):
conversation to have, however, because these guys are professionals at
what they do, and not just two of the best
currently but probably two of the best to ever do
what they're doing. So we could get into the you
know who came out on top part, But I think
it's very important to talk about first the reason why
there's kind of from people of our ilk, people who
(06:03):
sit in the seas that we sit in, and the
j Coles of the world. Some man, I don't really
want to be involved with this, Yeah, because some of
the things that are being alleged.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Are as deep yeah wow, white beating and uh, pedophilia
and all kinds of Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
So you know, the apology might be from the world
to J Cole saw where this could go on, and Yo.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
I'm going to take credit for that because I shouted
him out. I liked that.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Yeah. I mean a lot of people were very upset
that he kind of bowed out, But again to the nuance,
people knew that one of the few people on earth
capable of having this type of sparring session with Kendrick
Lamar would be Jermaine. And that's what people wanted, right,
if this same contest between Drake and Kendrick could happen
(06:51):
between those two. People were interested in hearing what the
music would sound like, right, because even with the content,
how the muse sounds matters, and how the songs were
crafted matters. And you know, to whoever you guys feel
has come out on top of this one thing that
has to be pointed out. And I guess i'll I'm
(07:12):
kind of giving away how I feel about kind of
quote unquote the victor here because I have to say,
and as a concession, one of the best song makers
in the history of music, definitely, without argument, the best,
one of the best songmakers of my lifetime is Aubrey Graham.
Whether you think he writes all of his lyrics or not,
(07:34):
his execution of said lyrics, his execution of krafting a song,
giving you a hook and giving you the necessary bars
between those hooks, and picking good production. There's not many
people that have ever done it better than him, and
any genre of music, not just in hip hop. So
I think it's important to say that before we get
into the you know, kind of who came on on top,
(07:56):
but starting this conversation in the grounded, more due, more
sober tone. The subject matter of the songs back and
forth between two very very prominent black kings, and the
positioning of one of them having to come out as victor,
which means the other has to come out as loser.
That part kind of sucks, But others can argue that
(08:20):
hip hop won because Canelo Alvarez fought this weekend. There
was a UFC pay per view this weekend. There were
the NBA playoffs this weekend, there were the NHL playoffs
this weekend, and the top twenty trending topics all weekend
involved Kendrick Lamar and Drake.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
M That's what the culture is paying attention to, not
just our culture, all of it.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
The top ten trending world wide, just in hip hop,
not just in whatever this siloed sector is. No the
conversation period I'm talking about, some of your most prominent
sports people were commenting in the middle of the playoffs
in the middle of canelo fighting one of the biggest
fighters in history about Kendrick Lamarin Drake. So bravo to
(09:12):
hip hop for captivating the whole world over the last week.
And now that we've done what now feels like a disclaimer.
But I think you guys can hear the sincerity here.
There's there's part of it that you don't or that
you don't cheer about, that you're not excited for that
needs to be said out loud because I've seen people
dive into colorism and racism and things like that, even
(09:34):
even homophobia, and have kind of conflated them in spaces
where they don't belong. And I'll say this before I
pass the mic, if you will, and decipher to my
brother Ramses, people talked about kind of homophobia because there's
a BBL drizzy hashtag going on where a lot of
(09:55):
rappers are making fun of him for cosmetic surgery. Ramson, I,
I don't know if any of these things are true.
We are journalists, but we are not investigative reporters and
have not launched an investigation to fact check all the
things being said. But that's not because some of the
cartoons and ardent characters or caricatures have been of Drake
(10:17):
and women's clothing and BBL and all this stuff, and
people have translated that into homophobia. There have been things where,
you know, some rappers are calling him white boy, and
you know, speaking about him being a mixed, light skin
Canadian man instead of just calling him a black man,
and people have conflated that into colorism. So I'm going
(10:39):
to say this, that's kind of not an explanation, but
some context for people who are pushing back to what
they feel like is colorism and homophobia, which deserve to
be pushed back against. People aren't saying because you're light
skinned you can't wrap, or because you're mixed you can't
represent hip hop. People aren't saying because you're gay you
(11:00):
can't represent hip hop. Because you got these cosmetic surgeries done,
you can't represent hip hop. People are saying you're not
being authentic.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Don't pretend like, yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Right, you were raised a Jewish man in Canada, started
your career as an actor, and by the time we
met you, you were already successful, already had money, already
had celebrity. You didn't then become a gangster. You'd never
warned corn Rows before you'd never subscribe to the culture
that we grew up in, and people feel like you're
(11:31):
wearing it as a costume. Now he's worn that costume
better anyone in history. However, all you have to do
is look for quote unquote receipts videos of him, the
version of him that existed before he signed to Young
Money Records, and then the version after that, and they
are not the same people. Well, people can argue that
(11:51):
he's still an actor, and that's the problem. They're not
saying you can't be that stuff, but be that. You're
not being that when we dance to you're not being true.
You're pretending to be this thing that we're from and
we don't get to take it off, so you shouldn't
be able to put it on. It's what people are
(12:12):
upset about.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
People are kind of conflating, well, don't have the dark
skin versus light skin things. Some people are doing that,
just like the protests that we talk about. There are
some bad actors that show up, but the overlying message
is not that you can't do this because you're light
or because you're mixed. Because so is j Cole, so
is Malcolm X so is Barack Obama. It's just about
(12:35):
being the authentic you. And you couldn't have possibly experienced
these things you rapped about, because by the time we
met you, you were not only an adult, but already
successful and already you already escaped these things that we
don't have a choice but to live in constantly for
our whole life. So it's important to say those things
(12:55):
out loud. And I'll say this lastly, when talking about
Drake his whole career, I've always said, so far gone
Drake was my favorite Drake.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Drake, he was Drake.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
He was doing his own genre of music. The first
time I heard someone feature themselves as a totally different
type of artist, and it was so dope. And what
he saw I think when he signed with Young Money
is jo I can do the music they're doing, and
I'm so talented, I can do it better. And I
thought that was lazy because he was right right like
(13:28):
arguing that he doesn't make good music, you're talking to yourself,
staring at a brick wall in a corner. You're lying
to yourself and to us. He's made incredible music, but
he could have made so much better music if he'd
ha stayed in that he was with Leaky Lee, and
it was just really really interesting, dynamic sonic expression on
(13:51):
that album. From Leaky Lee to Trey Songs to Omarion,
it was just a beautiful collaboration of creativity. And I
think he signed to a black hip hop label and
did what was easy and kind of conformed himself and
put that costume on to fit what he saw was
quote unquote popping and signing with lilaw Wayne gave him
(14:11):
some instant legitimacy and he never had to explain himself.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
I was going to add something there that your opinion,
in your perspective is a little bit more valid than
most people's because you know, many people may not know this,
but Q was actually an accomplished songwriter.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Accomplished as a stretch. But I'll take it.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Well, I know that you are, so you couldn't even
argue that with me. But you know, Q spent a
lot of time, you know, in studios with the names
that he's mentioning, so he kind of knows how these
things work, and you know, it kind of takes one
to know one. So I know that you know what
you're talking about. And I don't know if we've ever
explained that side of your your professional endeavors to maybe
(14:56):
one day to our listeners before. But I'm gonna give
you a quick rundown just for those that are not familiar.
I think this is the fullest. But the songs go
first person Shooter. That's where h J Cole and Drake
got on a track together.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
It's rumored that they invited Kendrick to join them on
that track and he declined.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Okay, so maybe that that is true. But in that song,
J Cole shouted out, Kendrick, you know, is it k
dot is at Aubrey or me? I think that was
the bar with the Big three, like we started the league, right,
So but he.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Then points out that he feels like Muhammad Ali, which
we all kind of ignore when we say that bar
the Big three. Yeah, he said that, but then the
Muhammad Ali is a reminder like, yo, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
We the Big three.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
But I'm on him, Yeah, I'm him though. Well, and
that part is it seems that people without fail. I
have not seen anybody else mentioned that part mentioned that
line followed the big three line.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah, but I think that if you're going to there's
something we said it. And then Charlottne says this a lot,
and I do kind of understand it. You have to
believe in yourself. I think you've even said this about
me before and it sounds crazy, So forgive me. I'm
not a crazy person. But if you're going to do
(16:18):
something like in the entertainment space where all eyes are
going to be on you and you're going to have
a microphone and you're going to perform, you have to
believe that you are about to do something better than
anybody else. I feel whenever I'm going to DJ, whenever
I talk on this microphone, I feel, even if it's
(16:39):
offering my own perspective, I'm going to be able to
either articulate it better or give you something that you
can't find somewhere else, or there's got to be a
point of differentiation here that makes at least one facet word,
I'm offering superior, right that in mind. If you're a rapper,
that means I'm the best, even among the best. Yes,
(17:00):
I'm still the best, even if it's just for this
one lane that I'm in.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Important to say, I don't think he was dissing. Yeah,
he was doing exactly what you're saying. Okay, we're all great.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
But Muhammad Ali right, hit it twisted. But that doesn't
mean you can't be Jack DMC. That doesn't mean you
can't be Mike Tyson. You know what I'm saying. Arguably
these guys have different fighting styles and different lanes. I
don't know the difference between Dhamad.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Ali is regarded as the greatest. Okay, cool, So again
it's him bigging up his collective and himself, which is
not a problem, but in this hyper competitive space, adding
that one more line, like it'd be like me saying, Yo,
rams Man, we we did a dynamic duo, but I'm Lebron.
(17:43):
We did a dynamic duo, but I'm Mike. It automatically
makes you yeah, and Pippin ain't Mike. So it's not
a shot at you. I'm bigging up myself. But by
nature of it, there's no way to say in those
conversations that we are cool. They're both great, bro, but
I'm from him. You know what I'm saying, You cool,
(18:05):
but I'm him. So as those hyper competitive men sitting
in that space, when you hear something like that, I
think you you you.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Know what's crazy is that my brain immediately even when
you said that right now, my brain goes to, well,
why can't we both be Mike?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
You know?
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Anyway, Okay, back to what we're talking about. So Kendrick
follows first person shooter with like that no one expected.
It came out of the thin blue sky like that
was he featured on a future and uh he was
a metro Metro woman, sir, and he just dropped the
verse and he just was going at it. And the
bar that now kind of set off the rest of
(18:41):
it was he was like, basically, f the Big Three.
It's just big me. And one of the things that
I will give to Kendrick in this whole battle is
that Kendrick, I hear. Kendrick's all right, don't get mad
at me. I'm from the West Coast. I'm from Compton.
(19:03):
I'm about to stay wine.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Right because I'm from the West Coast is different than
I'm from where content that's important.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Okay, So I'm about to say this. I say that
to I don't think I'm like, that's not tough, guys.
I just think that I'm able to have an opinion
here that is based in a man who's grown up
paying particular attention to that city and to the West coast.
You know, on a large to a larger degree, Kendrick
(19:33):
Lamar and Tupac are similar in a very very meaningful
way that both anchor them to this culture. I believe
in a in a permanent fashion. They are artists. But
where eminem has a technical superiority when having almost everyone,
(19:56):
when having the greatest of all time argument where you know,
pick another name, you pick a Jada Kiss or fabulous,
pick a Drake, j Cole. Technically, technically, these guys are masterful.
You know we're talking about Jacob, So we'll keep Jay Cole,
We'll keep a Drake. Okay, technically masterful artists. They put
(20:20):
out hits. No one is questioning that. But Tupac, while
not the technical artist that let's say Notorious Big was,
had something that Kendrick has. Tupac had something that really
matters more than sales and more than if I had
(20:44):
to put an artist in front of an alien. I've
said this before, put an artist in front of an alien. Yeah,
so you'll hear it again.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Well, this isn't fueled by what's going on.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
This is me, This is really me. I had to
put an artist in front of an alien and artist
catalog was intended to represent what hip hop is, what
is hip hop? The best I use that word intentionally,
the greatest, the best artist of all time to be
able to do that, in my opinion now is still Tupac.
(21:18):
Tupac had the range, and Tupac had the passion in
his artistry. You hear it in his voice, Yes, the delivery,
he met, the energy. Think DMX when he's praying, right.
Tupac had that and every song that he talked about,
(21:39):
and he talked about many different types of things. Tupac
had songs to uplift the black community and black women.
He had songs that were realistic. You know, I'm a gangster.
I'm protecting mine. I gotta go from mine, I gotta
get mine, don't run at me. I'm gonna ride on
my enemies, the whole the black the black man experience
in America, all of it. And there was a passion
(22:00):
infused into his lyrics that is is rarely found in
the marriage of that passion with commercial success because that's
a degree of it, and with you know, technical proficiency,
because I do believe Tupac to be a technically proficient MC.
And then the subject matter. If I okay, let me
(22:24):
shift gears just so I can stick this landing here.
If I am an artist, right, and I can draw
technically perfect pictures. You know, I remember a story of
a man who could close his eyes. He might have
had some maybe autism or something like that. He could
take a scene in close his eyes, turn around and
(22:45):
draw the scene and it would be technically accurate.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Right.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
So let's say I'm a technical, technically accurate artist, and
I have a gift. I can just draw things one
to one, and I choose to draw pairs over and
over again, and people look at the pairs and they say, Wow,
that's technically beautiful. And I see the next pair, Wow,
that's a different pair. That's a different pair. It might
(23:09):
not make you feel anything. Tupac will make you cry,
especially especially when you listen to dear Mama. If you
know what he's talking about, even as a even as
a crack fiend, Mama, you always was a black queen, Mama.
(23:29):
You almost hear the crying in his voice. You show
me an artist that does that, we can have a conversation.
Until Eminem does that, we can have that. We can't
have that conversation. Okay, Now, Kendrick Lamar, in the spirit
of Tupac Shakur, made a song that I feel my
ancestors could sing in a slave feel I'm not running
(23:51):
from that, you know why, because if God got us,
then we gonna be all right. And you feel that.
I was chanting that at a protest in twenty twenty
years after that, so was most of the world.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
And when the song came out, I was chanting it.
And you know what, that song is going to last forever.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Yeah, that song was my alarm clock for years, you
know what I mean, That's how it started day.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
But think about how that has a different value than sales.
You know what, There's so many songs that come from church.
You and I both come from church, right, Those songs
that we sing in church and black church, they come
from slave fields. Those songs they never had commercial success.
But have they not shaped how we view, how we feel,
(24:43):
how we find the inspiration, how we persevere? Have they
not shaped us in that way? Art does that? Business?
Sales records? Okay, So bearing all this in mind, when
I look at Kendrick Lamar, I'm from Compton and I am,
and I will say it up front, but if I
try my best to not be biased, because I never
(25:05):
I'm so proud of Drake. I am proud of Look
what he's done. I got most slaps than the Beatles. Dog, yes, right,
knock the Beatles off, dog get it back for us
for hip hop one time? Please right.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
That song he said that line on Dangs to the.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Show does and so I'm proud of Drake. So I
don't want to see anything bad happen to Drake. But
listen with all what I just said in mind. The
only songs of these disc records that have gone back
and forth like that. Drake came out with Pushups where
he was calling Kendrick Mars shorty. Then he came out
with Taylor made freestyle with the Tupac voiceover thing. Then
(25:42):
Kendrick came back with Euphoria. I had to listen to
that multiple times. Euphoria hold on six sixteen in LA.
I had to listen to that a couple of times.
Drake came back with Family Matters. I listened to it.
Meet the Grahams came out. I listened to that, not
like us. I'm still listening to that one and then
Drake came out with the Hard Part six real quick,
(26:03):
last thing, last thing. Every single Drake song I listened
to one time, I admired the technical proficiency.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
He was rapping on.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
He was giving it do. Yeah, he's doing his thing right.
When I listened to Kendrick Lamar, I hear that passion,
and Drake did had one critical misstep I believe in
the whole thing when he said Kendrick Lamar was rapping
like he's trying to free the slaves. Oh, as you
mentioned this Canadian, he's not African American. He's a Canadian
(26:36):
jewish Man, which largely i'd imagine the black experience is
the same. And his father, well largely, I didn't say completely.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Even largely I think is taking maybe right, that's not
a hill on my die, not Black American by itself,
Like black people's experience in America is not the same
as Black America.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
That's sperience. That's an important But again, that's not a
hillme dinad. So we'll we'll go back with that one.
But for him to say that bar it's it's it's
really it would I'm not mad at him because how
could you know I wouldn't have known that that would
have hit that way until I heard it.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Well, you you know, you probably say it to your
to your group, your circle, which are also Canadians, And
you know, I can see from a comedic standport standpoint
rather how they could think that was a funny line.
So use it right, We could make people laugh. That
kind of sway public public opinion or public sentiment in
our direction. You know, if we paint him as the
(27:43):
negro spiritual rapper, that might come across funny, except it
did not come across only did it not land how
he would have won it. But the person that he
said it to is Pullitz surprise winning Kendrick Duckworth, Like
this is Compton man, this is he even sat in
(28:07):
one of his other songs. Kendrick just opened his mouth.
Let's give him a Grammy as a shot, because Kendrick
don't pop out as often as everybody does, but when
he does, it's critically acclaim. So he said that as
a shot. But it's like, oh, that that's kind of facts. Yeah,
that's not only is that kind of facts, but very
(28:27):
very well deserved. I didn't mean to cut you off.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
But no, no, no, Well then I'll say the last
thing and then we'll give the last word to you.
But I think that, you know, while there are these
conversations around the internet, and while I do admire the
technical proficiency of both artists, and while I don't love this,
(28:51):
I don't think I'll ever return to the point where
I love battles and I'm like, oh yes, somebody saiding off.
I can't wait for the response, and then I'm giving
you an update for every single song it drops and
we didn't.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
React videos, Yeah, listen to those who did, thank you,
because I enjoyed them all thoroughly.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
I ain't even watch any business.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
They've been fantastic.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah. Well, my thing is I just I don't I
don't love like Drake doesn't have to be perfect. Nobody's
ramses is not perfect.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
My goodness, let's not start about Q.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Q is not perfect. I love Q, you know what
I'm saying, But no, nobody is right. So I'm not
mad at Drake. I'm not mad at the line, you know,
always wrapping like you're trying to free the slaves. It's
a misstep. And sometimes in battle, you know this strategy works,
this strategy doesn't. But you know, in terms of the
songs that had the replay value, in terms of the
(29:43):
why why am I making this song? In terms of
where's where does the passion? Like? Where is the art?
Not the technical proficiency? Where is the art? Where is
the the things that make people feel something? And indeed,
Kendrick's songs have been serviced to New Music Server. We're DJ,
so new Music Server. I'm sure it's been up to,
(30:04):
like you know, uh, DJ City and all. So they're
servicing it for like club spins and all that sort
of stuff, right, And I don't know that that's true
of any of the Drake.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Rap I think I think a couple of those going
to Despo.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Well then sure, then then maybe that's just for airplay.
But I'd imagine the Kendrick stuff is for club play,
because well not all of them so well, at least
the the not like us one and what was the
other one, the Euphoria.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
So I'll chime in, and I don't I don't say
that passing me for the last word, but I've been
singing you are my latest, my greatest inspiration by Teddy
Pendergrass to my daughter for a week now or however long.
Euphoria came out because Kendrick brought Teddy Pendergrass to a
(30:51):
rap battle. Effectively, that is very difficult to do. And
again the allegations made by both men in both songs
are harsh. We are not We have not been an
investigative journalist on this, so neither of us will tell
you this is true for this one and this is
not true for the other one. So all we can
tell you about is the music. Drake went to his
(31:14):
pocket on these records, he made Drake Records, and in
a vacuum, those records were slapped. And in past rap
battles with less proficient artists, he has been able to
just use the overwhelming magnitude of his success and his
fan base to just bully you out of the battle.
(31:37):
Name the other rapper, sans push a Tea, who held
his ground is not even push a Tea bullied him back,
and the consensus is that he won. So sans push
a Tea, no one else has really been able to
swim in those waters with Drake because it's just too difficult.
(31:59):
He's almost a deity in that sense. He, like our
former president, can do no wrong to his fan base.
So once a person gets to that point, there's nothing
that you can do. If you can't make the people
that support him turn or cover their eyes or feel away,
then you're highly ineffective. Right If the only person that
I can sway is rams Is, then I don't bring
(32:20):
much in a way of value to a competition with
someone else, especially a battle or a debate. So Drake
made Drake records, which means he made great records. He's Drake.
Kendrick made something different. Kendrick made people stop and think
and like turn their lights off and close their laptops.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Like yo, I can't call him a colonizer.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
So people felt how they felt. And you know, the
who's one on the initial back and forth, I don't know.
But the other day I heard Kendrick whisper I see,
(33:02):
and then I heard Ustered on the beat Garden too,
And as soon as I heard that, I understood that
everything had changed. And again, allegations made in the song
could be argued back and forth, except that slave bar
(33:25):
came back to haunt Drake in the most lyrically effective
and efficient breakdown of what a lot of people believe
he's done to and with our culture that not only
could not be debated. Drake has not spoken a word
(33:49):
in rebuttal to those things because it could not be refuted.
I think people were not prepared for that to be
broken down so masterfully and that kind of a fish
proficient precise. They were cool breakdown over a DJ Mustard track.
They got the whole California outside, not just La outside
(34:13):
in the bay like it's it's different man, and that
moment determined the battle. There's there's I don't know what
Drake would have had to do with the hard part
six to pour some water on Not like Us, but
whatever he needed to do, he didn't.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
It was just a technical song.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
It was just he said something, he had some effectiveness,
He retorted some things, he spoke against some things, and
it was kind of like so what. It wasn't worth listening,
mostly because everybody was still outside in low riders and
at barbecues and at cookouts and with flags in the
air and with their elbows up with Not like Us
(34:56):
on repeat. So the people have spoken, write like. The
crazy thing about competition is that in most cases statistics
are kept and go to the charts, go to iTunes,
go to Billboard, go to whoever. However they track these
things go to the trending and you'll see who the
(35:17):
people think came out on top. Drake fans will tell
you one thing. Kendrick fans will tell you the other.
But there was a consensus there and not like Us
was a culture shifting moment to where I think Kenny
and maybe by the time you guys hear this, he's
put out something else. But I think he very effectively said,
you know what I did that, I don't need to
(35:39):
follow it. I need to let it keep rising because
it's gone. Not like us. It's gone clubs in Atlanta,
clubs in New York, like clubs in Vegas. It's outside. Well,
I think some people consider Phoenix the West, so I
guess Vegas too. So I didn't point us out, but man,
people are out. I had. I saw a video of
(36:02):
a train of lowriders about to turn on crenchall every
car bumping, not like us, and where they were going
to go. You could imagine what that's going to look
like when they get there. And that's my point. Not
like Us was a cultural You mentioned a moment.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
You mentioned something too about the trending topics or something
like that. Drake's response or.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Something yeah, Nah, Drake was trending worldwide number one yesterday.
I think that says it.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Well. Maybe battles that there there's a silver lining there.
Maybe you know, I have to you know, when I'm wrong,
I'll apologize.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
I don't want you apologizing that's being wrong because I
don't think that's true. I think, just like with everything
else we talk about, there's nuanced true things can be true.
You can feel that way and it be honest and
it be sincere and it be people gonna be like, yeah,
I get it. You don't have to be wrong for
this other thing to also be true. Yeah, okay, we'll
go ahead and Mustard on the beat. You know what
(37:05):
I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Yeah, Yeah. And then the last thing I'm gonna say
is I went back and I rewatched j Cole and
his kind of apology on stage and him just kind
of seeing he was like, you know, I heard that record.
I don't even feel no kind of way. You know,
I love Kendrick, that's my guy. How many people think
(37:27):
Kendrick's wanted the best to every.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Out out to the dream Real Fest for loving Kendrick too. Yeah,
they could have been trying to steal ride hard for
him and booed him for apologizing. He asked the people
who thought Kendrick Lamar was great and who loved Kendrick Lamar,
and it sounded like everybody president like, yeah, bro, we
feel you.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Yeah. So I think that with that in mind, I
feel like j Cole could sider at this table with
us and he would understand kind of what we're talking about,
and we would understand what he's talking about, which is like,
I get it, I get it. You know, he made
(38:02):
his song I forget the name of it, but it was.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Seven mint a drill lovely that was That was just
what I.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Was about to say. But then you know, he apologized
for it. But the point I'm making here is that
you know, him kind of seeing it from both sides
and then ultimately coming down on the side of you
know what, I don't really love this. I don't love
this part of myself. I don't like who I become
when I have to, you know, get trickity trick and
(38:31):
tear down a black man that I look up to
and respect and blah blah blah, and to be fair,
to be fair, even though this is kind of as
ugly of a battle as I've ever seen. I still
I still remember bars coming from Kendrick acknowledging Drake's greatness
and Drake's capacities as a songwriter and a hit maker.
(38:52):
I've heard Superstarah. I've heard ah the same from from
from Drake to Kendrick, knowledging who he is. He's like,
I know, yeah, I know who I'm in the ring with.
Right for me, I'll say this the best argument I
(39:16):
can make about who's the best rapper I've made it
on this show ever. But after this battle, I mean,
Drake was already kind of at the top of the list,
but after this battle, I now one hundred know where
(39:37):
Kendrick is, which is right there at the top with him.
You know what I'm saying, Like, if there was ever
any question in my mind, I've always been a fan
of Kendrick. And you know, if I'm micing an audience
over the years, go back and check if anybody's asking
I'm naming either people I know personally, like yo, the
dilated People's or whatever, you know, because I'm super biased
and I will tell you in a heartbeat, So I'm
not trying to trick nobody. But every time Kendrick's name
(40:00):
came up, yup Kendrick Us from content. So that's what
it is, right, but in terms of actually getting a
chance to see what he's capable of doing and seeing
how deep it goes. Because some people got really into
Good Kid, Mad City, some people got really into you know,
the Butterflies, and you know, all these these classic albums.
People got really into those, and unfortunately, or rather fortunate
(40:23):
depend how you look at it. But unfortunately, I'm a DJ,
which means that my how I consume albums, entire bodies
of work is really wark. Now I got give me
the singles. I might play the first minute and half
of the singles if they slap in the club, and
that's it. I'm not in my car bumping you know,
(40:43):
the newest, latest, hottest album. So when all these albums
came out, I didn't get into them like I should have,
like a fan of music, because when I was just
a radio personality, it was all good. I would sit
back and listen. Now I'm a DJ, and I listened
to songs just to make sure they work in a set.
And if I'm listening for my personal enjoyment, it's a
neat Baker it's you know what, I'm saying something from
the eighties, like I'm relaxing, I'm spending I'm teaching my
(41:05):
son's music, I'm playing my guitars with him, and that
sort of thing. So I never got a chance to
really fall in love with Kendrick's abilities on the mic.
And I knew that they were there, of course, but
I didn't like it just went up, you know, several
uns on the ladder after this spouts.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
So Kennick's not having the same commercial success as Drake.
May have tricked or lulled some people into believing he
was not capable to spar with him. And I think
that narrative has been put to sleep a very aggressive way.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
It's out the risk with it's in the ancestral plane.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
N I mean, like I say this, not like us
made me want to bang a set, and I don't
have no set, so that's important. My elbow has been
up for three days or whenever that came out. My
elbow was set in the era right now.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
I love that? All right? Well, really right there of course,
As always, if you have any thoughts or feedback, hit
us up and we're here and we do check it.
Hit us on the red microphone talk back feature on
the iHeartRadio app, or you don't hit us on social media,
you can find me at Rams's.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Jaw, find me at imq ward, follow us on YouTube.
We don't say that enough sitting on YouTube.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
And let's keep the conversation going and unless some other
disc tracks come out and we got to follow up
in another week or.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
Follow up on this one, we said what we need
to say. Yeah, Nik, you're right. I think we got
that off our checks right.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Well, then that's it man, and then the next word
is yours. So again we're standing by. I can't wait
to hear from you and until we do peace. This
has been a production of the Black Information Network. Today's
show is produced by Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts you'd
like to share, use the red microphone talkback feature on
the iHeartRadio app. While you're there, be sure to hit
subscribing down With all of our episodes, I'm your host
(42:52):
ramses Jah on all social media. Join us tomorrow as
we share our news with our voice from our perspective
right here on the Bloe Black Information Network Daily Podcast
This is the Black Information Network Daily Podcast, and I'm
your host, rams' Ja. And sometimes the amount of stories
that make their way to us means that we simply
can't cover everything that comes our way. But from time
to time, a story just stays with me and bill
compelled to share it with you and give you my thoughts.
And now one more thing. Okay, I think that I
(00:32):
need to retract a statement that I made on this show.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Or I suggested that battling and beef is kind of
just not my favorite.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Maybe hip hop has just kind of gotten past it.
It doesn't really lead to any cool outcomes. You know.
I said a lot of things and I felt them,
and I largely still feel that way. But I've been
listening to Kung Fu Kenny, and every time he comes
out with another record, I listen to the record, and
(01:15):
I'm finding that I'm like riveted to the goings on
in hip hop. Not only that some of Kendrick Lamar's records,
I'll actually like play them a couple of times. And
I got to think, and you know what, maybe maybe
(01:39):
there's a silver lining. Maybe there's you know, I don't
love to see black men argue publicly. I don't think
that that we have other problems as a people that
folks with that level of status could be focusing their
attention on. You know, if you have a problem with
another rapper, you don't have to talk about them. You
don't have to say his name in your music. You
(02:01):
certainly don't have to write songs about other men. Like
if you write songs about women, I'm okay with that,
you know what I mean, But writing songs about men
that you're not in love with just doesn't really feel
like the best use of a pen. You know, write
a song about Palestine to pick a thing you know
or is real if you feel so inclined, whatever your
thing is. But you know, there's hip hop is so powerful.
(02:23):
But the fact is is that if this back and
forth could rope me in, and it did, then that
has to be a silver lining. And for me to
find some music that has some replay value that there
has to be some value there. And so returning to
the show is my favorite person to have these debates with.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Q Ward.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Welcome back.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Thank you you're the.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Person I owe the apology too, So I'm sorry I
was wrong. I stand corrected. This has been very I
don't want to say entertaining. I don't want to say
I don't want to make light of it, because they
still feel like there are two black men, prominent black men,
(03:12):
that are kind of going back and forth. And now
it's gotten to the point where who's saying what's true?
And you know, all this sort of stuff, and people
are grasping at straws and all that sort of stuff.
And I don't like to see any anybody black torn down.
It's just this thing. I've said it publicly on microphones
and I'll say it so I'm not able to talk anymore.
I don't like seeing that. But man, if the world
(03:35):
is not focused on hip hop right now, and to
be fair, hip hop has this very interesting dynamic that
we can put out songs quickly and you can have full,
fleshed conversations in hip hop and you can't do that
in any other type of music. Imagine two country singers
that didn't like each other and dropping dissed country songs
(03:55):
back and forth to in a day. You know that
sort of thing, right, So another thing that's entertainment taining
and the parallels always made to sport, and we're watching
the sport now. I'm not a fan of Island sports.
You know this. I don't like boxing, I don't like
mma fighting. It just makes my stomach turn. What I
(04:19):
found myself paying particular attention to this, and I know
that since we last spoke, like sixteen more dis tracks
came out. So you want to bring folks up to speed,
or you want me to do it, or you know, how.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Do we get here? This is a more difficult conversation
to have than I thought it would be. You don't
know anybody in apology, because like with many of the
things that we talk about, there is a lot of
nuance here. It is not simply one thing or the other,
(04:53):
because everything that you says it doesn't just have merit.
It's how I feel as well, the idea of you
and not having a falling out, because I think it's
kind of the understanding by most of it. At some
point these guys used to at least be cool with
each other. Maybe they weren't friends and the actual definition
of the word, but frequent collaborators tour it together, so
(05:17):
there was at least some amicable times and Ramses and
Q had a falling out, and every day we both
cracked a microphone and got on the air and said
awful things about each other that would suck nobody, even
if they were funny, even if I was a great
punchline writer and so was he, and we went back
and forth and you guys got to laugh and critique
and vote on who won. That would suck. There's another
(05:42):
conversation to have, however, because these guys are professionals at
what they do, and not just two of the best
currently but probably two of the best to ever do
what they're doing. So we could get into the you
know who came out on top part, But I think
it's very important to talk about first the reason why
there's kind of from people of our ilk, people who
(06:03):
sit in the seas that we sit in, and the
j Coles of the world. Some man, I don't really
want to be involved with this, Yeah, because some of
the things that are being alleged.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Are as deep yeah wow, white beating and uh, pedophilia
and all kinds of Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
So you know, the apology might be from the world
to J Cole saw where this could go on, and Yo.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
I'm going to take credit for that because I shouted
him out. I liked that.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Yeah. I mean a lot of people were very upset
that he kind of bowed out, But again to the nuance,
people knew that one of the few people on earth
capable of having this type of sparring session with Kendrick
Lamar would be Jermaine. And that's what people wanted, right,
if this same contest between Drake and Kendrick could happen
(06:51):
between those two. People were interested in hearing what the
music would sound like, right, because even with the content,
how the muse sounds matters, and how the songs were
crafted matters. And you know, to whoever you guys feel
has come out on top of this one thing that
has to be pointed out. And I guess i'll I'm
(07:12):
kind of giving away how I feel about kind of
quote unquote the victor here because I have to say,
and as a concession, one of the best song makers
in the history of music, definitely, without argument, the best,
one of the best songmakers of my lifetime is Aubrey Graham.
Whether you think he writes all of his lyrics or not,
(07:34):
his execution of said lyrics, his execution of krafting a song,
giving you a hook and giving you the necessary bars
between those hooks, and picking good production. There's not many
people that have ever done it better than him, and
any genre of music, not just in hip hop. So
I think it's important to say that before we get
into the you know, kind of who came on on top,
(07:56):
but starting this conversation in the grounded, more due, more
sober tone. The subject matter of the songs back and
forth between two very very prominent black kings, and the
positioning of one of them having to come out as victor,
which means the other has to come out as loser.
That part kind of sucks, But others can argue that
(08:20):
hip hop won because Canelo Alvarez fought this weekend. There
was a UFC pay per view this weekend. There were
the NBA playoffs this weekend, there were the NHL playoffs
this weekend, and the top twenty trending topics all weekend
involved Kendrick Lamar and Drake.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
M That's what the culture is paying attention to, not
just our culture, all of it.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
The top ten trending world wide, just in hip hop,
not just in whatever this siloed sector is. No the
conversation period I'm talking about, some of your most prominent
sports people were commenting in the middle of the playoffs
in the middle of canelo fighting one of the biggest
fighters in history about Kendrick Lamarin Drake. So bravo to
(09:12):
hip hop for captivating the whole world over the last week.
And now that we've done what now feels like a disclaimer.
But I think you guys can hear the sincerity here.
There's there's part of it that you don't or that
you don't cheer about, that you're not excited for that
needs to be said out loud because I've seen people
dive into colorism and racism and things like that, even
(09:34):
even homophobia, and have kind of conflated them in spaces
where they don't belong. And I'll say this before I
pass the mic, if you will, and decipher to my
brother Ramses, people talked about kind of homophobia because there's
a BBL drizzy hashtag going on where a lot of
(09:55):
rappers are making fun of him for cosmetic surgery. Ramson, I,
I don't know if any of these things are true.
We are journalists, but we are not investigative reporters and
have not launched an investigation to fact check all the
things being said. But that's not because some of the
cartoons and ardent characters or caricatures have been of Drake
(10:17):
and women's clothing and BBL and all this stuff, and
people have translated that into homophobia. There have been things where,
you know, some rappers are calling him white boy, and
you know, speaking about him being a mixed, light skin
Canadian man instead of just calling him a black man,
and people have conflated that into colorism. So I'm going
(10:39):
to say this, that's kind of not an explanation, but
some context for people who are pushing back to what
they feel like is colorism and homophobia, which deserve to
be pushed back against. People aren't saying because you're light
skinned you can't wrap, or because you're mixed you can't
represent hip hop. People aren't saying because you're gay you
(11:00):
can't represent hip hop. Because you got these cosmetic surgeries done,
you can't represent hip hop. People are saying you're not
being authentic.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Don't pretend like, yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Right, you were raised a Jewish man in Canada, started
your career as an actor, and by the time we
met you, you were already successful, already had money, already
had celebrity. You didn't then become a gangster. You'd never
warned corn Rows before you'd never subscribe to the culture
that we grew up in, and people feel like you're
(11:31):
wearing it as a costume. Now he's worn that costume
better anyone in history. However, all you have to do
is look for quote unquote receipts videos of him, the
version of him that existed before he signed to Young
Money Records, and then the version after that, and they
are not the same people. Well, people can argue that
(11:51):
he's still an actor, and that's the problem. They're not
saying you can't be that stuff, but be that. You're
not being that when we dance to you're not being true.
You're pretending to be this thing that we're from and
we don't get to take it off, so you shouldn't
be able to put it on. It's what people are
(12:12):
upset about.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
People are kind of conflating, well, don't have the dark
skin versus light skin things. Some people are doing that,
just like the protests that we talk about. There are
some bad actors that show up, but the overlying message
is not that you can't do this because you're light
or because you're mixed. Because so is j Cole, so
is Malcolm X so is Barack Obama. It's just about
(12:35):
being the authentic you. And you couldn't have possibly experienced
these things you rapped about, because by the time we
met you, you were not only an adult, but already
successful and already you already escaped these things that we
don't have a choice but to live in constantly for
our whole life. So it's important to say those things
(12:55):
out loud. And I'll say this lastly, when talking about
Drake his whole career, I've always said, so far gone
Drake was my favorite Drake.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Drake, he was Drake.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
He was doing his own genre of music. The first
time I heard someone feature themselves as a totally different
type of artist, and it was so dope. And what
he saw I think when he signed with Young Money
is jo I can do the music they're doing, and
I'm so talented, I can do it better. And I
thought that was lazy because he was right right like
(13:28):
arguing that he doesn't make good music, you're talking to yourself,
staring at a brick wall in a corner. You're lying
to yourself and to us. He's made incredible music, but
he could have made so much better music if he'd
ha stayed in that he was with Leaky Lee, and
it was just really really interesting, dynamic sonic expression on
(13:51):
that album. From Leaky Lee to Trey Songs to Omarion,
it was just a beautiful collaboration of creativity. And I
think he signed to a black hip hop label and
did what was easy and kind of conformed himself and
put that costume on to fit what he saw was
quote unquote popping and signing with lilaw Wayne gave him
(14:11):
some instant legitimacy and he never had to explain himself.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
I was going to add something there that your opinion,
in your perspective is a little bit more valid than
most people's because you know, many people may not know this,
but Q was actually an accomplished songwriter.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Accomplished as a stretch. But I'll take it.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Well, I know that you are, so you couldn't even
argue that with me. But you know, Q spent a
lot of time, you know, in studios with the names
that he's mentioning, so he kind of knows how these
things work, and you know, it kind of takes one
to know one. So I know that you know what
you're talking about. And I don't know if we've ever
explained that side of your your professional endeavors to maybe
(14:56):
one day to our listeners before. But I'm gonna give
you a quick rundown just for those that are not familiar.
I think this is the fullest. But the songs go
first person Shooter. That's where h J Cole and Drake
got on a track together.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
It's rumored that they invited Kendrick to join them on
that track and he declined.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Okay, so maybe that that is true. But in that song,
J Cole shouted out, Kendrick, you know, is it k
dot is at Aubrey or me? I think that was
the bar with the Big three, like we started the league, right,
So but he.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Then points out that he feels like Muhammad Ali, which
we all kind of ignore when we say that bar
the Big three. Yeah, he said that, but then the
Muhammad Ali is a reminder like, yo, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
We the Big three.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
But I'm on him, Yeah, I'm him though. Well, and
that part is it seems that people without fail. I
have not seen anybody else mentioned that part mentioned that
line followed the big three line.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah, but I think that if you're going to there's
something we said it. And then Charlottne says this a lot,
and I do kind of understand it. You have to
believe in yourself. I think you've even said this about
me before and it sounds crazy, So forgive me. I'm
not a crazy person. But if you're going to do
(16:18):
something like in the entertainment space where all eyes are
going to be on you and you're going to have
a microphone and you're going to perform, you have to
believe that you are about to do something better than
anybody else. I feel whenever I'm going to DJ, whenever
I talk on this microphone, I feel, even if it's
(16:39):
offering my own perspective, I'm going to be able to
either articulate it better or give you something that you
can't find somewhere else, or there's got to be a
point of differentiation here that makes at least one facet word,
I'm offering superior, right that in mind. If you're a rapper,
that means I'm the best, even among the best. Yes,
(17:00):
I'm still the best, even if it's just for this
one lane that I'm in.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Important to say, I don't think he was dissing. Yeah,
he was doing exactly what you're saying. Okay, we're all great.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
But Muhammad Ali right, hit it twisted. But that doesn't
mean you can't be Jack DMC. That doesn't mean you
can't be Mike Tyson. You know what I'm saying. Arguably
these guys have different fighting styles and different lanes. I
don't know the difference between Dhamad.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Ali is regarded as the greatest. Okay, cool, So again
it's him bigging up his collective and himself, which is
not a problem, but in this hyper competitive space, adding
that one more line, like it'd be like me saying, Yo,
rams Man, we we did a dynamic duo, but I'm Lebron.
(17:43):
We did a dynamic duo, but I'm Mike. It automatically
makes you yeah, and Pippin ain't Mike. So it's not
a shot at you. I'm bigging up myself. But by
nature of it, there's no way to say in those
conversations that we are cool. They're both great, bro, but
I'm from him. You know what I'm saying, You cool,
(18:05):
but I'm him. So as those hyper competitive men sitting
in that space, when you hear something like that, I
think you you you.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Know what's crazy is that my brain immediately even when
you said that right now, my brain goes to, well,
why can't we both be Mike?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
You know?
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Anyway, Okay, back to what we're talking about. So Kendrick
follows first person shooter with like that no one expected.
It came out of the thin blue sky like that
was he featured on a future and uh he was
a metro Metro woman, sir, and he just dropped the
verse and he just was going at it. And the
bar that now kind of set off the rest of
(18:41):
it was he was like, basically, f the Big Three.
It's just big me. And one of the things that
I will give to Kendrick in this whole battle is
that Kendrick, I hear. Kendrick's all right, don't get mad
at me. I'm from the West Coast. I'm from Compton.
(19:03):
I'm about to stay wine.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Right because I'm from the West Coast is different than
I'm from where content that's important.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Okay, So I'm about to say this. I say that
to I don't think I'm like, that's not tough, guys.
I just think that I'm able to have an opinion
here that is based in a man who's grown up
paying particular attention to that city and to the West coast.
You know, on a large to a larger degree, Kendrick
(19:33):
Lamar and Tupac are similar in a very very meaningful
way that both anchor them to this culture. I believe
in a in a permanent fashion. They are artists. But
where eminem has a technical superiority when having almost everyone,
(19:56):
when having the greatest of all time argument where you know,
pick another name, you pick a Jada Kiss or fabulous,
pick a Drake, j Cole. Technically, technically, these guys are masterful.
You know we're talking about Jacob, So we'll keep Jay Cole,
We'll keep a Drake. Okay, technically masterful artists. They put
(20:20):
out hits. No one is questioning that. But Tupac, while
not the technical artist that let's say Notorious Big was,
had something that Kendrick has. Tupac had something that really
matters more than sales and more than if I had
(20:44):
to put an artist in front of an alien. I've
said this before, put an artist in front of an alien. Yeah,
so you'll hear it again.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Well, this isn't fueled by what's going on.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
This is me, This is really me. I had to
put an artist in front of an alien and artist
catalog was intended to represent what hip hop is, what
is hip hop? The best I use that word intentionally,
the greatest, the best artist of all time to be
able to do that, in my opinion now is still Tupac.
(21:18):
Tupac had the range, and Tupac had the passion in
his artistry. You hear it in his voice, Yes, the delivery,
he met, the energy. Think DMX when he's praying, right.
Tupac had that and every song that he talked about,
(21:39):
and he talked about many different types of things. Tupac
had songs to uplift the black community and black women.
He had songs that were realistic. You know, I'm a gangster.
I'm protecting mine. I gotta go from mine, I gotta
get mine, don't run at me. I'm gonna ride on
my enemies, the whole the black the black man experience
in America, all of it. And there was a passion
(22:00):
infused into his lyrics that is is rarely found in
the marriage of that passion with commercial success because that's
a degree of it, and with you know, technical proficiency,
because I do believe Tupac to be a technically proficient MC.
And then the subject matter. If I okay, let me
(22:24):
shift gears just so I can stick this landing here.
If I am an artist, right, and I can draw
technically perfect pictures. You know, I remember a story of
a man who could close his eyes. He might have
had some maybe autism or something like that. He could
take a scene in close his eyes, turn around and
(22:45):
draw the scene and it would be technically accurate.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Right.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
So let's say I'm a technical, technically accurate artist, and
I have a gift. I can just draw things one
to one, and I choose to draw pairs over and
over again, and people look at the pairs and they say, Wow,
that's technically beautiful. And I see the next pair, Wow,
that's a different pair. That's a different pair. It might
(23:09):
not make you feel anything. Tupac will make you cry,
especially especially when you listen to dear Mama. If you
know what he's talking about, even as a even as
a crack fiend, Mama, you always was a black queen, Mama.
(23:29):
You almost hear the crying in his voice. You show
me an artist that does that, we can have a conversation.
Until Eminem does that, we can have that. We can't
have that conversation. Okay, Now, Kendrick Lamar, in the spirit
of Tupac Shakur, made a song that I feel my
ancestors could sing in a slave feel I'm not running
(23:51):
from that, you know why, because if God got us,
then we gonna be all right. And you feel that.
I was chanting that at a protest in twenty twenty
years after that, so was most of the world.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
And when the song came out, I was chanting it.
And you know what, that song is going to last forever.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Yeah, that song was my alarm clock for years, you
know what I mean, That's how it started day.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
But think about how that has a different value than sales.
You know what, There's so many songs that come from church.
You and I both come from church, right, Those songs
that we sing in church and black church, they come
from slave fields. Those songs they never had commercial success.
But have they not shaped how we view, how we feel,
(24:43):
how we find the inspiration, how we persevere? Have they
not shaped us in that way? Art does that? Business?
Sales records? Okay, So bearing all this in mind, when
I look at Kendrick Lamar, I'm from Compton and I am,
and I will say it up front, but if I
try my best to not be biased, because I never
(25:05):
I'm so proud of Drake. I am proud of Look
what he's done. I got most slaps than the Beatles. Dog, yes, right,
knock the Beatles off, dog get it back for us
for hip hop one time? Please right.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
That song he said that line on Dangs to the.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Show does and so I'm proud of Drake. So I
don't want to see anything bad happen to Drake. But
listen with all what I just said in mind. The
only songs of these disc records that have gone back
and forth like that. Drake came out with Pushups where
he was calling Kendrick Mars shorty. Then he came out
with Taylor made freestyle with the Tupac voiceover thing. Then
(25:42):
Kendrick came back with Euphoria. I had to listen to
that multiple times. Euphoria hold on six sixteen in LA.
I had to listen to that a couple of times.
Drake came back with Family Matters. I listened to it.
Meet the Grahams came out. I listened to that, not
like us. I'm still listening to that one and then
Drake came out with the Hard Part six real quick,
(26:03):
last thing, last thing. Every single Drake song I listened
to one time, I admired the technical proficiency.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
He was rapping on.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
He was giving it do. Yeah, he's doing his thing right.
When I listened to Kendrick Lamar, I hear that passion,
and Drake did had one critical misstep I believe in
the whole thing when he said Kendrick Lamar was rapping
like he's trying to free the slaves. Oh, as you
mentioned this Canadian, he's not African American. He's a Canadian
(26:36):
jewish Man, which largely i'd imagine the black experience is
the same. And his father, well largely, I didn't say completely.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Even largely I think is taking maybe right, that's not
a hill on my die, not Black American by itself,
Like black people's experience in America is not the same
as Black America.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
That's sperience. That's an important But again, that's not a
hillme dinad. So we'll we'll go back with that one.
But for him to say that bar it's it's it's
really it would I'm not mad at him because how
could you know I wouldn't have known that that would
have hit that way until I heard it.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Well, you you know, you probably say it to your
to your group, your circle, which are also Canadians, And
you know, I can see from a comedic standport standpoint
rather how they could think that was a funny line.
So use it right, We could make people laugh. That
kind of sway public public opinion or public sentiment in
our direction. You know, if we paint him as the
(27:43):
negro spiritual rapper, that might come across funny, except it
did not come across only did it not land how
he would have won it. But the person that he
said it to is Pullitz surprise winning Kendrick Duckworth, Like
this is Compton man, this is he even sat in
(28:07):
one of his other songs. Kendrick just opened his mouth.
Let's give him a Grammy as a shot, because Kendrick
don't pop out as often as everybody does, but when
he does, it's critically acclaim. So he said that as
a shot. But it's like, oh, that that's kind of facts. Yeah,
that's not only is that kind of facts, but very
(28:27):
very well deserved. I didn't mean to cut you off.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
But no, no, no, Well then I'll say the last
thing and then we'll give the last word to you.
But I think that, you know, while there are these
conversations around the internet, and while I do admire the
technical proficiency of both artists, and while I don't love this,
(28:51):
I don't think I'll ever return to the point where
I love battles and I'm like, oh yes, somebody saiding off.
I can't wait for the response, and then I'm giving
you an update for every single song it drops and
we didn't.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
React videos, Yeah, listen to those who did, thank you,
because I enjoyed them all thoroughly.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
I ain't even watch any business.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
They've been fantastic.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah. Well, my thing is I just I don't I
don't love like Drake doesn't have to be perfect. Nobody's
ramses is not perfect.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
My goodness, let's not start about Q.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Q is not perfect. I love Q, you know what
I'm saying, But no, nobody is right. So I'm not
mad at Drake. I'm not mad at the line, you know,
always wrapping like you're trying to free the slaves. It's
a misstep. And sometimes in battle, you know this strategy works,
this strategy doesn't. But you know, in terms of the
songs that had the replay value, in terms of the
(29:43):
why why am I making this song? In terms of
where's where does the passion? Like? Where is the art?
Not the technical proficiency? Where is the art? Where is
the the things that make people feel something? And indeed,
Kendrick's songs have been serviced to New Music Server. We're DJ,
so new Music Server. I'm sure it's been up to,
(30:04):
like you know, uh, DJ City and all. So they're
servicing it for like club spins and all that sort
of stuff, right, And I don't know that that's true
of any of the Drake.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Rap I think I think a couple of those going
to Despo.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Well then sure, then then maybe that's just for airplay.
But I'd imagine the Kendrick stuff is for club play,
because well not all of them so well, at least
the the not like us one and what was the
other one, the Euphoria.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
So I'll chime in, and I don't I don't say
that passing me for the last word, but I've been
singing you are my latest, my greatest inspiration by Teddy
Pendergrass to my daughter for a week now or however long.
Euphoria came out because Kendrick brought Teddy Pendergrass to a
(30:51):
rap battle. Effectively, that is very difficult to do. And
again the allegations made by both men in both songs
are harsh. We are not We have not been an
investigative journalist on this, so neither of us will tell
you this is true for this one and this is
not true for the other one. So all we can
tell you about is the music. Drake went to his
(31:14):
pocket on these records, he made Drake Records, and in
a vacuum, those records were slapped. And in past rap
battles with less proficient artists, he has been able to
just use the overwhelming magnitude of his success and his
fan base to just bully you out of the battle.
(31:37):
Name the other rapper, sans push a Tea, who held
his ground is not even push a Tea bullied him back,
and the consensus is that he won. So sans push
a Tea, no one else has really been able to
swim in those waters with Drake because it's just too difficult.
(31:59):
He's almost a deity in that sense. He, like our
former president, can do no wrong to his fan base.
So once a person gets to that point, there's nothing
that you can do. If you can't make the people
that support him turn or cover their eyes or feel away,
then you're highly ineffective. Right If the only person that
I can sway is rams Is, then I don't bring
(32:20):
much in a way of value to a competition with
someone else, especially a battle or a debate. So Drake
made Drake records, which means he made great records. He's Drake.
Kendrick made something different. Kendrick made people stop and think
and like turn their lights off and close their laptops.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Like yo, I can't call him a colonizer.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
So people felt how they felt. And you know, the
who's one on the initial back and forth, I don't know.
But the other day I heard Kendrick whisper I see,
(33:02):
and then I heard Ustered on the beat Garden too,
And as soon as I heard that, I understood that
everything had changed. And again, allegations made in the song
could be argued back and forth, except that slave bar
(33:25):
came back to haunt Drake in the most lyrically effective
and efficient breakdown of what a lot of people believe
he's done to and with our culture that not only
could not be debated. Drake has not spoken a word
(33:49):
in rebuttal to those things because it could not be refuted.
I think people were not prepared for that to be
broken down so masterfully and that kind of a fish
proficient precise. They were cool breakdown over a DJ Mustard track.
They got the whole California outside, not just La outside
(34:13):
in the bay like it's it's different man, and that
moment determined the battle. There's there's I don't know what
Drake would have had to do with the hard part
six to pour some water on Not like Us, but
whatever he needed to do, he didn't.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
It was just a technical song.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
It was just he said something, he had some effectiveness,
He retorted some things, he spoke against some things, and
it was kind of like so what. It wasn't worth listening,
mostly because everybody was still outside in low riders and
at barbecues and at cookouts and with flags in the
air and with their elbows up with Not like Us
(34:56):
on repeat. So the people have spoken, write like. The
crazy thing about competition is that in most cases statistics
are kept and go to the charts, go to iTunes,
go to Billboard, go to whoever. However they track these
things go to the trending and you'll see who the
(35:17):
people think came out on top. Drake fans will tell
you one thing. Kendrick fans will tell you the other.
But there was a consensus there and not like Us
was a culture shifting moment to where I think Kenny
and maybe by the time you guys hear this, he's
put out something else. But I think he very effectively said,
you know what I did that, I don't need to
(35:39):
follow it. I need to let it keep rising because
it's gone. Not like us. It's gone clubs in Atlanta,
clubs in New York, like clubs in Vegas. It's outside. Well,
I think some people consider Phoenix the West, so I
guess Vegas too. So I didn't point us out, but man,
people are out. I had. I saw a video of
(36:02):
a train of lowriders about to turn on crenchall every
car bumping, not like us, and where they were going
to go. You could imagine what that's going to look
like when they get there. And that's my point. Not
like Us was a cultural You mentioned a moment.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
You mentioned something too about the trending topics or something
like that. Drake's response or.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Something yeah, Nah, Drake was trending worldwide number one yesterday.
I think that says it.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Well. Maybe battles that there there's a silver lining there.
Maybe you know, I have to you know, when I'm wrong,
I'll apologize.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
I don't want you apologizing that's being wrong because I
don't think that's true. I think, just like with everything
else we talk about, there's nuanced true things can be true.
You can feel that way and it be honest and
it be sincere and it be people gonna be like, yeah,
I get it. You don't have to be wrong for
this other thing to also be true. Yeah, okay, we'll
go ahead and Mustard on the beat. You know what
(37:05):
I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Yeah, Yeah. And then the last thing I'm gonna say
is I went back and I rewatched j Cole and
his kind of apology on stage and him just kind
of seeing he was like, you know, I heard that record.
I don't even feel no kind of way. You know,
I love Kendrick, that's my guy. How many people think
(37:27):
Kendrick's wanted the best to every.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Out out to the dream Real Fest for loving Kendrick too. Yeah,
they could have been trying to steal ride hard for
him and booed him for apologizing. He asked the people
who thought Kendrick Lamar was great and who loved Kendrick Lamar,
and it sounded like everybody president like, yeah, bro, we
feel you.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Yeah. So I think that with that in mind, I
feel like j Cole could sider at this table with
us and he would understand kind of what we're talking about,
and we would understand what he's talking about, which is like,
I get it, I get it. You know, he made
(38:02):
his song I forget the name of it, but it was.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Seven mint a drill lovely that was That was just
what I.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Was about to say. But then you know, he apologized
for it. But the point I'm making here is that
you know, him kind of seeing it from both sides
and then ultimately coming down on the side of you
know what, I don't really love this. I don't love
this part of myself. I don't like who I become
when I have to, you know, get trickity trick and
(38:31):
tear down a black man that I look up to
and respect and blah blah blah, and to be fair,
to be fair, even though this is kind of as
ugly of a battle as I've ever seen. I still
I still remember bars coming from Kendrick acknowledging Drake's greatness
and Drake's capacities as a songwriter and a hit maker.
(38:52):
I've heard Superstarah. I've heard ah the same from from
from Drake to Kendrick, knowledging who he is. He's like,
I know, yeah, I know who I'm in the ring with.
Right for me, I'll say this the best argument I
(39:16):
can make about who's the best rapper I've made it
on this show ever. But after this battle, I mean,
Drake was already kind of at the top of the list,
but after this battle, I now one hundred know where
(39:37):
Kendrick is, which is right there at the top with him.
You know what I'm saying, Like, if there was ever
any question in my mind, I've always been a fan
of Kendrick. And you know, if I'm micing an audience
over the years, go back and check if anybody's asking
I'm naming either people I know personally, like yo, the
dilated People's or whatever, you know, because I'm super biased
and I will tell you in a heartbeat, So I'm
not trying to trick nobody. But every time Kendrick's name
(40:00):
came up, yup Kendrick Us from content. So that's what
it is, right, but in terms of actually getting a
chance to see what he's capable of doing and seeing
how deep it goes. Because some people got really into
Good Kid, Mad City, some people got really into you know,
the Butterflies, and you know, all these these classic albums.
People got really into those, and unfortunately, or rather fortunate
(40:23):
depend how you look at it. But unfortunately, I'm a DJ,
which means that my how I consume albums, entire bodies
of work is really wark. Now I got give me
the singles. I might play the first minute and half
of the singles if they slap in the club, and
that's it. I'm not in my car bumping you know,
(40:43):
the newest, latest, hottest album. So when all these albums
came out, I didn't get into them like I should have,
like a fan of music, because when I was just
a radio personality, it was all good. I would sit
back and listen. Now I'm a DJ, and I listened
to songs just to make sure they work in a set.
And if I'm listening for my personal enjoyment, it's a
neat Baker it's you know what, I'm saying something from
the eighties, like I'm relaxing, I'm spending I'm teaching my
(41:05):
son's music, I'm playing my guitars with him, and that
sort of thing. So I never got a chance to
really fall in love with Kendrick's abilities on the mic.
And I knew that they were there, of course, but
I didn't like it just went up, you know, several
uns on the ladder after this spouts.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
So Kennick's not having the same commercial success as Drake.
May have tricked or lulled some people into believing he
was not capable to spar with him. And I think
that narrative has been put to sleep a very aggressive way.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
It's out the risk with it's in the ancestral plane.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
N I mean, like I say this, not like us
made me want to bang a set, and I don't
have no set, so that's important. My elbow has been
up for three days or whenever that came out. My
elbow was set in the era right now.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
I love that? All right? Well, really right there of course,
As always, if you have any thoughts or feedback, hit
us up and we're here and we do check it.
Hit us on the red microphone talk back feature on
the iHeartRadio app, or you don't hit us on social media,
you can find me at Rams's.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Jaw, find me at imq ward, follow us on YouTube.
We don't say that enough sitting on YouTube.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
And let's keep the conversation going and unless some other
disc tracks come out and we got to follow up
in another week or.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
Follow up on this one, we said what we need
to say. Yeah, Nik, you're right. I think we got
that off our checks right.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Well, then that's it man, and then the next word
is yours. So again we're standing by. I can't wait
to hear from you and until we do peace. This
has been a production of the Black Information Network. Today's
show is produced by Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts you'd
like to share, use the red microphone talkback feature on
the iHeartRadio app. While you're there, be sure to hit
subscribing down With all of our episodes, I'm your host
(42:52):
ramses Jah on all social media. Join us tomorrow as
we share our news with our voice from our perspective
right here on the Bloe Black Information Network Daily Podcast
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