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October 24, 2024 19 mins

Today Host Ramses Ja concludes his two part conversation with Dr. Christopher Towler, Director of the Black Voter Project.

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And now part two of our two part conversation with
Christopher Twer PhD, director of the Black Voter Project, co
founder of Black Insights Research, and the editor in chief
of the Journal of Race, Ethnicity and Politics. I am
your host, Rams's jaw. Okay, So, as you mentioned, or,

(00:21):
I think that the connection that I'm seeing more than
ever is the lack of enthusiasm being connected to the
lack of information or folks not understanding the policies that

(00:43):
are enacted at the federal level and how they affect
their day to day lives. I think that you cut
across the grass by, you know, talking about that stimulus check,
which is something that we talk about here, and because
I have a microphone and an audience, you know, it's
always important for me to, you know, educate folks as
best I can that the stimulus check was our own money.

(01:04):
It wasn't Donald Trump's money. He didn't go to his
own bank account and pull that money out and give
it to the American people. It's important to say that
it's important to say that that was not an act
of Donald Trump. That was an act of Congress. Donald
Trump had to sign off on it. And indeed, if
I'm not mistaken. It was supposed to be more than

(01:26):
twelve hundred dollars, but Donald Trump actually held it up
because he wanted his name to go on the check,
even though it wasn't his idea. He wanted his name
on the check that went out to all the people
in the country. And if it might have been the
Treasury of the Federal Reserver, you know, whichever entity had

(01:46):
to delay the printing of the checks until Donald Trump
got his way, and then when he did, the checks
went out. And so for folks that are looking at
the twelve hundred dollars, like, yeah, donald Trump put money
directly in my pocket, I can imagine how that might
that might feel, how you might connect Donald Trump to
you know, your immediate reality. But the fact of the

(02:08):
matter is that you're playing right into his hand.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Let's not forget it was a Democratic Congress as well.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Exactly that too.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
He sort of jumped on the coattails of so you
know to But again, as you just said, it took
you probably about two minutes and a number of talking
points to make that connection clear. Right, That's hard to
do in a campaign ad. That's hard to do if
you've got someone's attention at their door for a few
minutes and you're just trying to get to know them.

(02:38):
And so a lot of the work that we've done
has suggested that right now, in this time and political context,
it's more effective to go straight at Donald Trump and
to really highlight the threat that he represents, in the
threat that the MAGA movement represents, that the far right
agenda represents to the black community. Then try and make

(02:58):
those connections right now, particularly with low propensity voters, and
in the focus groups we've ran and the research we've done,
as soon as you mentioned Donald Trump, the conversation takes off, right.
It's like that's something that's a hot topic. It's a
hot button issue that even low propensity voters will jump
in on and talk about. And much of the conversation

(03:19):
centers around how he has relentlessly attacked, both through policy
and through his rhetoric and his language, the black community
time and time again.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
Sure, sure, so with that well established, Well, let me
back up. So you're saying that it's more effective to
attack Donald Trump than it is to talk about what
Democrats are doing? Is that is that more effective?

Speaker 2 (03:45):
Well with low propensity voters? Right if we're talking about
trying to get these people who are not voting into
the electorate. Yeah, talking about this threat of Trump is
more effective and more powerful than trying to make the
case that Democrats are there to protect them and will
help them. That's just because the low propensity voters are
low propensity for a reason. Right, there's a reason they've

(04:06):
never engaged politics or they don't feel like politics is
worth their time. It's because they don't see the payoff.
They don't see this feedback from the politicians and the
political world. But if you can make the case that
they'll actually lose more if they don't participate, and say
can be used in a protective way as well as
a progressive way, it's rather convincing. And talking about how

(04:29):
Trump is attacking voting rights, talking about how Trump wants
to give police immunity, wants to end DEI programs, and
ban black studies, and then especially talking about how Trump
will not protect abortion and there's no guarantee that Trump
won't pass a national abortion ban. All of those things

(04:49):
are important and extremely important when you frame them as
attacked directly to the black community.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah, when you lay it out like that, it makes
a lot of sense. I think that, and you're right,
we're talking about a specific facet of the of voters,
the voters in this country, and so I think that Historically,
I was under the impression that, you know, as we

(05:16):
as we mentioned earlier, it was all about the Democrats
and their messaging or lack thereof. They weren't saying, they
weren't taking credit for what they did, and indeed Republicans
were taking credit for what they didn't do, as we
mentioned with Donald Trump, but he's not the only one
by far. And so you know, I'm understanding now based

(05:39):
on this conversation that people are they can be those
specific people. Let me let me be clear, those specific
people can be motivated more by what they will lose
under a Trump presidency than what they will gain under
a Kamala Harris presidency. And that's that's interesting. And I

(06:00):
want to hit a couple of talking points from her
agenda to make sure that it's established in our conversation.
So in brief, she wants to provide one million forgivable
loans up to twenty thousand dollars to black entrepreneurs. She
wants to launch a national Health Equity initiative focused on
black men. She wants to legalize marijuana at the federal level. Obviously,

(06:23):
we've been disproportionately affected by marijuana laws, and so she's
trying to kind of bring some justice there. And this
is something that flies in the face of a lot
of the talking points that we see online of black
men saying that Kamala Harris locked up black men or
weed violations. And now she's in her agenda she wants
to legalize marijuana, and so that kind of flies in

(06:44):
the face of that narrative. She wants to lower costs
by enacting a federal ban on corporate price gouging for
food and groceries. That's another big thing in the black
community and all communities, to be fair, is that, you know,
people can feel somehow they can't connect the hospital to
the federal level, but they can connect groceries and that's
you know, but it doesn't quite work that way.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Get groceries and gas prices right.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
There you go. And that's the weirdest thing because it's
not so cut and dry. It's not like Commala or
Trump or anyone is in the office just saying, okay,
gas price is going to be this today and eggs
are going to be that tomorrow and then another one here,
lower rent and provide down payment assistance for to sorry,
to triple the number of new first time black homeowners,

(07:28):
which is something that we need to get back on
track with. That affected us in two thousand and eight
during the recession, It affected us in twenty twenty during
the pandemic. We had higher foreclosures, lower closes on mortgages
and first time home buyers and so forth. And so

(07:49):
she's trying to offset all this, and we know a
lot of a lot of our future is tied up
in economics, and a lot of economics is tied up in,
you know, whether or not we own a home or
have access to stable housing. And so these I think
are what she's building her narrative around, or sorry, her
campaign around, to speak to that question that we see online.

(08:13):
What is she going to do for black people? Is
she black? And all that black stuff that we see?
So I guess I should ask you now that we
know what works for low propensity voters, now that we
know that Democrats have kind of decided to enhance their
messaging a bit, I guess, first thing, do you think

(08:35):
that you know any of this stuff is actually going
to end up getting passed and impacting black life and
maybe even winning black votes.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
I think there's a good chance some of this stuff
goes in because of a lot of it can be
done through executive power, and I think that there's you know,
I'm just speculating here that this was a strategic move,
but a lot of these things can be done with
this swipe of a pay through the presidency if she wins,
which is you know, really great to hear. I think

(09:04):
this agenda for black men is past due and much needed. Again,
I don't necessarily think it's the most effective way to
reach the low propensity voters, but to show your commitment
to the Black community that overwhelmingly votes for you no
matter what, right, more than any other constituency. This is important,
especially for black men. Right. We've been talking about black

(09:25):
men and their supporter lack the era, but it's important
to have this as Black men vote for Harrison vote
for Democrats at a rate higher than any other group
other than black women. Right.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
They vote.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
There's more support for Harris among black men than white men,
than Latino men, but also more than white women and
even Latino women. Right, and so this is not something
that is, you know, an afterthought. This needs to be
central to the campaign to solidify that support, and so
I think this is all important. I do think there
are larger issues here that likely will take more congressional work,

(10:00):
things as we talked about, such as voting rights and
police reform. We saw twenty twenty two the John Lewis
Voting Rights Act and the George Floyd Policing Act both
stalled in Congress and we're not passed. And so again
that's why I'm speculating this might be a bit strategic
here to not highlight those types of things because there's
no guarantee that those will come to bear right. But

(10:22):
these things there's a good chance that she can push
these through without Congress if it come to be right.
A lot of these economic policies and have some executive
policies executive federal orders that offer opportunities for black business
and things like that. There's one area, though, where I
think she could push a little harder, and that's emphasizing
the imports of the court, because no matter what happens,

(10:43):
these things could get held up, as we saw with
student loan forgiveness in the courts in ways that will
nullify them, you know, ultimately make them less effective or
non existent at all. And so identifying the need to
appoint new justices to the court, justices that are not
help bent on a far ruadedg is something that she
could also play up and highlight both as moving towards progress,

(11:06):
but also as a threat to the black community. And
we've shown in our work this is something that does
resonate with all voters low propensity as well. And so
that's another talking point that I think she could get
out there within these last couple weeks and really play
up that'll make a difference with black voters.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Sure, sure, fantastic.

Speaker 3 (11:22):
If my voice didn't matter, people wouldn't be trying so
hard to silence me, And if my vote didn't matter,
they wouldn't work so hard to take it away. So
you know why I'm voting this November because I know
they don't want me to.

Speaker 4 (11:34):
Your voice is powerful, your voice matters. Don't let your
voice be silenced. To register, confirm your voting status, or
get information about voting in your area, visit vote dot gov.
That's vote dot goov. A message from the Perception Institute
and the Black Information Network.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
We are here today with Christopher Towler, Associate professor in
the Department of Political Science at California State University, sacrament Intel,
director of the Black Voter Project, and the editor in
chief of the Journal of Race, Ethnicity and Politics. Okay,
so you know, I want to talk about the other
side of this, because you know, we do have folks

(12:15):
who listen to this show who maybe they don't feel
politically the way that I feel, and they come here
for perspective, I'm sure. So let's talk about Trump. And

(12:36):
you know, Trump has historically been tied to Project twenty
twenty five, which he is in recent months kind of
tried to distance himself from it. It's important to mention
that his name is in Project twenty twenty five over
three hundred times, so for him to pretend like he
doesn't know what's in it doesn't have anything to do

(12:57):
with it.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
He recently admitted that he would appoint an architect of
Project twenty twenty five to his cabinet as well.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
So there you go.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
The ties are there.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah, yeah, Oh, there's so much connective tissue. But the
fact is that he himself has said that he doesn't
know anything about it. He says, good points, bad points, whatever.
This is more or less his position on it. And
in lieu of that, he said that his Agenda forty
seven is the way forward. Do you are you aware

(13:29):
of anything in his Agenda forty seven that is beneficial
to black men but that is going to do anything
like what Kamala Harris has outlined.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
There's nothing that I've seen specifically an Agenda forty seven
or Project twenty twenty five for that matter, that I
see as entirely beneficial to the Black community or black men.
And the biggest talking point that's come from the Trump
campaign regarding the black community as unemployment and this sort
of misnomer that black unemployment was the lowest ever in

(14:03):
history under the Trump administration, even though it dropped two
lower points during the Obama administration. Right the large economy
world suggests that Trump's plans for the economy, especially tariffs
on importing goods, will only damage the economy and increase
unemployment and you know, ultimately hurt the black community even more.

(14:26):
And so you know, I think it's difficult to find
anything specific coming from Trump right now that is beneficial
to the black community in the same way that Harris's
agenda just released suggests.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
Yeah, I had to ask you that because yeah, you know,
if I say it, it sounds like I'm saying it.
But you're a person that deals with the numbers, and
you know this is kind of your day to day
and so I appreciate you giving us all the insight
that you have. I know that you have a a

(15:01):
lot of other things to get to, but I want
to ask sort of like, what's what's next for you
and for the Black Voter Project, you know, And now
that we're kind of staring down the tail end of this.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
Election season, well, as I mentioned, we're in the middle
of collecting another wave of our National Black Public Opinion poll.
This this data is extremely special because it's longitudinal, and
so we're talking to the exact same people that we
talked to back in April and again in August. We're
going to talk to them a third time now in
October and get a sense as to how opinions have changed,

(15:40):
how attitudes have changed, and how people say they're going
to participate similarly or differently as the campaign marches on.
And so we're hoping that findings from the past surveys
and this coming survey can continue to inform politics and
hopefully Harris's campaign and continue to push her to speak
to Black voters and really consider black voters as central
to not only winning this election, but the Democratic Party

(16:03):
moving forward. Right, And so the work doesn't stop once
the election is over as well. Black participation is going
to be even more important when it's not a general election, right,
and when we have local, statewide, and midterm elections in
the years between twenty twenty four and twenty twenty eight,
that's where even more difference can be made. Right, who
your mayor is, who your state representative is, who's on

(16:25):
your county board or your school city council or your
school board, those things all oftentimes matter even more to
your individual life than who sits in the oval office.
So the Black Voter Project is going to continue to
do work, continue to collect as much data and offer
public opinion information where there usually isn't much. Right. And
so this is just the beginning of this election cycle,

(16:49):
and or sort of the end of this election cycle
is the beginning of far more continued work trying to
examine the black community and encourage others to really spend
the time and the resources to do this work as well.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
Okay, Well, with that being the path forward, let us
know how we can support you, how we can keep
up with you and all that you're doing, all your website,
social media, how people can get involved all that.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
Absolutely. So, the data and information is on two websites.
It's at Black Voter Project dot com and Black Insightsresearch
dot com. Also on socials under those same things, and
then I have social media under Black prof cct B
l K p R O f c c T that

(17:38):
I'm happy if people follow. I put out a lot
of information about the polls and the research there, as
well as a lot of other political opinions as events
pop up. So thank you again for the time and
the opportunity to discuss this and to just discuss black
voters right in a way that we normally don't see
and don't hear about in mainstream media.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
Well, I can tell you that, but this has been
more than insightful. It's been more than a joy, and
I can't thank you enough for coming on and sharing
all that you've learned with us and your commitment to
making sure that we are well represented as a people

(18:19):
in the political arena, so that we know how to
identify and deal with issues that are important to us.
Just a brilliant mind and again it's an honor once again.
Today's guest is Christopher Towler, Associate professor in the Department
of Political Science at California State University, Sacramento, director of
the Black Voter Project, and the editor in chief of
the Journal of Race, Ethnicity and Politics. This has been

(18:44):
a production of the Black Information Network. Today's show is
produced by Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts you'd like to share,
use the red microphone talkback feature on the iHeartRadio app.
While you're there, be sure to hit subscribe and download
all of our episodes. I'm your host Ramsey's jaw on
also social media, and join us tomorrow as we share
our news with our voice from our perspective right here

(19:05):
on the Black Information Network Daily Podcast
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