November 9, 2023 • 34 mins
Today's special guest is former actor and Miss Arab USA turned writer Suzanne Yatim Aslam. She joins Host Ramses Ja and guest cohost Q - Ward to offer her perspective on the current conflict between Israel and Palestine.
Part 3 of a 3 part series.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
And now part three of our three parts special with
Palestinian American human rights major and former Miss arab USA
Susanne Osla. In this final installment, two Wards starts us
off with understanding how to approach conversations with people who
have opposing opinions. This is the Black Information Network Daily podcast,
(00:36):
and I am your host, Ramsey's job.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
The amount of things that I learned from the both
of you, just with regards to replying and responding to
people with love and allowing people a space to have
made a mistake and be redeemed in their thought is
really something that I have to say with the microphone on.
When we first started Civic Cipher, Ramsen and I were
(01:01):
dealing with that, but it was more like a Fox
versus other American news outlets, because Fox was like this
state seemed to be this Republican state run entity that
was intentionally reporting news that was nonsense because it was
in their best fiscal interest, and you know, some people
in power over there were making those decisions like full
(01:23):
out one hundred percent. There's nobody on the network that
was saying anything that was even remotely true. Again, we
are in a place where there's an other ring of
another group of people, So the whole country now Fox, MSNBCC,
and then all the news gets to come slighted because
there's an other to point to as the bad guy.
And both of you have this lead with love heart
(01:48):
that is absolutely necessary because Ramses taught me we cannot
create a space where people cannot be redeemed. So if
they didn't have the diversity and thought of the emotional
intelligence to see things different, that they're stuck in that
space so that they cling to it and they fortify it,
and now they're going to lean harder into the only
place they're allowed to be. So giving people a space
(02:08):
to say I'm sorry and I didn't know and not
I told you sold them to death and make them
feel ridiculous like they can't be redeemed and they can't
be taught and they can't change their mind. I want
to commend both of you out loud for that, because
I've been so critical sometimes ram just knows as I
get so upset, I'm not even Raps has to remind
me you cannot be cold to a point where people
(02:31):
can't be forgiven and can't be redeemed, like you have
to lead with love and have some space for people
to kind of come back to reality, because it's very
easy for this propaganda machine of media and television to
trick people and them not knowing any better and really
passionately feel the way they do, even if it's because
they're been indoctrinated and haven't been really educated. And something
(02:53):
that I want to point out before we moved on,
sixty five percent of those killed have been children.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
That's why this isn't a conversation like.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
So if the numbers ten thousand, sixty five hundred children,
not soldiers, not men, like you said before, children, that
is not what a war looks like.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
When before the show, we were talking Ramses and I
and I was saying, how I was asked to speak
on this, but bring in the human element on a
different show, bring in the human element. And they were like,
you know, and we're gonna would really like to try
to keep the politics out of it and just talk
and you know, just talk about your family and.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Story.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
And I was well, I was like, I was like, okay,
I love I love the human element. And that's why
it's so good. You know, if there's a problem happening
in Palestine, you talk to Palestinians because you need to
humanize it. And how else do you humanize other than
seeing their faces and hearing their voices and knowing their stories?
And so I said, I would love to do that. However,
I can't come in and not talk about politics, because
(04:13):
here's the truth of it, my very birth, being born
a Palestinian is inherently political, not by choice. I don't
want this, guys. I don't want to talk about this.
I would rather would rather not talk Why what's so fun? No,
go ahead, I would rather not talk about this. I
would rather talk about it. I shouldn't have to justify
(04:34):
my existence. Yes, but I've been having to do this.
I can't wait to hear this. Okay, so, but I've
been having to do this my entire life. I will
meet people who've never been to Palestine, never even talk
to a Palestinian, and they will meet me and they
will go they're like, oh, you know where you're read
from a Palestinian, And they instantly have an opinion about
(04:54):
my very existence, whether or not Palestinians or even real Hello,
New Gingridge, whether or not Palestinians are even real. They
have an opinion on And I'm like oh, I'm fake now,
like I don't exist. What is this? But so for
us to say let's have this conversation, let's remove politics
out of it, is so they didn't mean it in
(05:16):
this way, but they don't understand. They don't understand that. Sadly,
the life of a Palestinian everyday dinner conversation is did
you hear what the state of Israel just did every
single Did you hear what happened to your cousin my
mom being arrested at the age of twelve as collective
punishment or entire class was arrested at the age of
(05:38):
twelve without their family being informed. You want to tell
me that I can't make that that's not political.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
It's yes, Quentin, I'm raising my hand like we're in class.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
I feel that way.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Because some of those people ask you to remove politics
on purpose, and that's my talk about you guys as hearts,
that's my pushback, Like ram just gives people a grace
sometimes that's undeserved. Yes, some people are ignorant and don't
know any better. Some people are very intentionally saying that
(06:12):
let's leave the politics out of it, so you don't
end up calling them racists. You don't end up calling
them nationalists, so you don't end up calling them fascist
or bigots or whatever is going to come out when
they start talking about their quote unquote political beliefs. It's
not about the politics. It's about your lack of humanity
and your lack of empathy. It's not your political position,
it's how you feel about other people, because you feel
(06:33):
like there are people that you can justifiably placed beneath you,
and you don't want to have that uncomfortable conversation. You
want us to remove politics from the conversation when we
start talking, so everybody can be friendly and kumbayan and
hold hands. When some of you are very, very intentionally
on the side that you're on it, it's not all ignorance.
Of course, there are a lot of people that don't
(06:54):
know any better. Some people absolutely do and they're absolutely
intentionally racist, intentionally see themselves as supremacist, and intentionally placed
some of us beneath them. So it's not always ignorance.
Sometimes people are bad people.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
I hate that, but it might be true. In the
last month, obviously, I've had a lot of conversations about this,
and I've been really blessed to be able to educate people,
and I do it happily. Sometimes it's frustrating. A conversation
I had once in this time was it reminded me
it's just so funny how history repeats itself. It was, okay,
(07:33):
so what do you guys want, Like, what do you want?
And I'm like, well, we want freedom, and they're like, right,
but what does that mean. Is it like a one state?
Is it a two state? I'm like, oh, my god, okay,
so we don't even We tried for a two state,
but then they broke apart every piece of land that
we even had our hands on, so that's not a possibility.
By the way, they don't want a one state because
that means we don't have to live together, which is
not what the State of Israel wants. They don't want
(07:54):
Palestinians there. But so we haven't had the opportunity to
have a conversation of what our future looks like. The
response goes, well, then I don't so it sounds like
you guy don't really know what you want.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I'm like, okay.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
So that was the first part. The second part was
and God bless this person for continuingly asking and me, oh,
and God bless me if you're trying so hard to
But the second part was, well, if you guys got freedom,
then how do we know that Israelis are going to
be protected? Do you know what this reminded me of?
This reminded me of, well, what happens if we give
black people freedom? Aren't they just going to kill all
(08:26):
the white people? This was a concern right in the
days of ending slavery, right, I.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Think it's still a concerned today somehow, even though we've
done a.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Little thing to the point a little bit, a little bit,
And so that idea was like, so it was maddening
to me because here's this violent, occupying power that is
committing ethnic cleansing and genocide against a group of people
who want freedom. And they're like, right, but we've been
so horrible to you. If we give you freedom, you're
gonna you might hurt us back. And that's so so
(08:57):
scary to them.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Yes, Quintin, to consider yourself a decent person when you're
doing something horrendous, you have to in your own mind think, well,
anybody in this position would do this. So that's where
that if we freedom, they'll hurt us back. Mentality comes
from We're not disgusting people. This is what anyone would
(09:20):
do take their land back, or to whatever their explanation is,
to themselves. They can't just be disgusting. They have to
be doing what anyone would do to protect their prosperity
and prosterity. So yes, if we freedom, they're going to
want stuff back because they're just as bad as us.
We're not people, We're not just as bad as you.
We just want to exist. We've never tried to belittle you,
(09:44):
even in our cries for freedom. We don't cry for
your capture or your mutilation or your harm, violence against
you at all. Never. We just want to exist and
be okay, and you not intentionally do us harm. I'm
trying to say, this is so nice, not mad.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
I know I haven't cursed once, and I'm really proud
of myself because that's just not how I talk.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
You can't if some of you will see this, but
I'm grabbing rams.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Really are trying to just great, You're.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Not sound like an angry man on this show.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Things things get complicated and not complicated to your point.
Nelson Mandela tried so hard for nonviolent direct action and
they got him and his whole organization, they got pushed
underground and they ended up using armed resistance. The second
they ended up using armed resistance, they were labeled terrorists.
Nelson Mandela was a terrorist in the United States until
(10:35):
two thousand and eight. He had been imprisoned already for
twenty seven years, he had already been freaking president of
his country, and he was still until two thousand and
eight labeled Nelson Mandela. I mean, the man is a saint. Now,
Like if you think, oh, you're just like Nelson Mandela,
what a compliment that would be, right, but he so Look,
we cannot we cannot look at what governments say and do.
(10:57):
If a government, our government would say no else in
Mandela was a terrorist up until I want to say,
two thousand and eight. Wasn't that long ago, But I
think it kind of was. No, that's not that long listen,
that's because we're older. But apparently it was a long
time ago. But if he was a terrorist up until
two thousand and eight, and the United States is of America,
it tells me that we have to look at our
(11:20):
government with a massive amount of skepticism. They do not
have anybody's best interest at heart. They seek to divide.
They have a narrative that they want us to ingest.
And I know this because my entire life I've always
known the truth about Palestine, but my entire life I
(11:41):
have had to explain it to Americans because they use
the same They use the same words, which means that
you're all being fed the same script. Israel has a
right to defend itself. If you hear people say that phrase,
that means they have heard it over and over again.
They are not using any critical thinking, but they think
it's their own novel idea. Oh yeah, you know what
(12:02):
is real. Every state has a right to defend themselves.
Except for Palestinians. We don't, but everybody else does. And
so when you say that, we're like, oh, you haven't
used any critical thinking. And there are certain terms like
that that have been used throughout my thirty eight years
on this earth. Isn't that long. I know it's a
long time, but it's always been the same story. And
(12:24):
it just tells me why I look younger. Yes, bless you,
bless you, bless you, God you're here. Okay, No, it's sorry,
ladies and gentlemen. They are flattering their their podcast guests.
Go ahead, the narrative is so particular and so strategic,
(12:46):
and being on the other side of it and actually
knowing the truth and then watching what is being fed
to my fellow Americans shows me so much about what
they want you to know versus what's really happening.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Today we are joined by Suzanne Oslam and Q War
discussing the Palestinian perspective of the Israel Hamas war and
the Free Palestine movement. So let me say this, and
I want to get some final thoughts because I know
(13:27):
you made some notes before we wrap up, but I
want to say this. You said something that was really
interesting when you were saying that, you know, my existence
is political. Effectually, that was what you communicated, and in
learning why a lot of black activists in the United
(13:56):
States have taken up the position of let's support Palestine.
They need our support. Let's make some noise on the
ground here, let's call out the president for enabling the
ethnic cleansing, and you know, and so forth. The commonalities
(14:23):
there in what you're saying about being your birth being political.
I think that that's shared and this is part of
why Q and I were like, man, this sounds really
familiar because on this show, we recognize that our being
(14:43):
born is political. There's a this is this is a
moment where I feel it's it's appropriate that we share
this with you. So this is not an intention, and
this is not my intention of taking anything away from
this moment with respect to my Palestinian brothers and sisters,
(15:05):
but to suggest that I can understand and respect this plight.
You know that I'm black from across the street. I
got a big ol' afro. You could you could tell
that's there's only one type of head to grows this hair. Right,
my skin it's all brown all over me. And so
(15:28):
that's kind of what you know, that's what it means
to be melanated. Right, So everybody knows that you can't
tell if I'm Jewish, you can't tell it from nothing.
You can tell I'm black, though, if you have eyes,
you can tell them. And living a political life where
(15:52):
I understand that the optics surrounding a person like me,
by those with authority, by those with the capacity to
hand out punitive not punitive. But what's the word I'm
looking for? Like punishments?
Speaker 3 (16:09):
And right?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, yeah, but I was I was gonna say something different,
but yeah, to hand out punishments to determine my future
in a systemic way that the future of me and
my people without my involved, Like, I'm not as able
to shape my future as much as they are, you know,
with with the stroke of a pen or with the
(16:32):
misremembering of facts or whatever. Right my existence is political,
I've lived in a country as a second class citizen.
I don't need to make that case for you, because
Angela Davis will make it for me. Right. So, again,
there's a lot of commonality there in terms of kind
of seeing what is going on in Palestine and what
(16:53):
has happened historically with black people in this country. That said,
I have to say that there's a lot of anality
with Jewish people. I'm not talking about Israel, I'm talking
about Jewish people. It's important for me to say this
part because Jewish people and Black people we've done a
lot of good things in our history together in this country,
not the least of which is the NAACP, the founding
(17:14):
of the NAACP. But there's the other part of it
that I think is really really important, and I think
that I want to say it to you, and if
you share this with any people who have lived the
life that you live, or I can see the world
through the lens through what you be the world. We say,
(17:37):
you and I say that we were not born to
write only. We were not born to suffer only. We
were not born to We get to be happy to,
We get to be proud, we get to be free.
(17:57):
And this is not something that is exclusive to us.
This is something that we've learned should be our reality.
We should dedicate our time to fighting and pushing causes together.
We should dedicate time to We should allow the times
in our lives where we have to suffer through some stuff.
We should embrace that. Learn who we are relative to
that suffering. Grow as a result of that suffering. Inform
(18:19):
the people that come behind us to minimize, you know,
their suffering, but let them know that it's a part
of life and we should move past that. But we
should not perpetually be in a state of suffering. We
should not perpetually be in a state of mental anguish.
That's not fair, That's what I would say, Right, that's
not fair. We get to be happy to, right. And
(18:39):
so I want to make sure that before we finish
our conversation today that I think that a lot of
the support that you may have seen from black activists
in this country comes from that same spirit of that's
not fair. They deserve more than that. I know what
(19:00):
that feels like. I am a fighter, and they're fighting,
and they should not have to fight alone. They should
not have to fight forever, and they should not have
to fight a losing battle. If I had to guess,
if I'm speaking for other I'm definitely acting as c
as too. But if I'm speaking for others, I think
that I want to make sure that I say that.
And if I'm able to share this platform with the
Black Information Network with you so that you can give
(19:24):
a voice to what your people are going through, it
is not a it is an honor. It is an
honor to be able to do that for you.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Thank you, Thank you. There's a woman in my life
who is most responsible for the version of me that
anybody meets today. Her name is Reverend Estella Secret. On
my way to Baltimore, Maryland to celebrate a friend of mine,
(19:54):
you know, an incredible career achievement for a friend of mine,
I got a call from my older sister that that
woman had been rushed to the emergency room. So this
changed my destination. But on a flight en route to
what I thought was going to be Baltimore, Maryland, I
sat next to two strangers, and before our flight took off,
(20:17):
one of those strangers got upgraded and moved to another
seat closer to the front of the plane. We all
know what that means, which left me next to another
stranger with a seat in between us. So we both
got to feel like we got upgraded to first class too,
a little more leg room, little more elbow space. And
I don't know how we got to this point in
(20:40):
the conversation, but there was a moment when this stranger
made it known to me that they were Palestinian, and
I have to feel like that prior to my reaction
could have been a little bit uncomfortable, because you don't
know how people in this country you're going to respond
(21:01):
to learning that about you when you're on the other
side of this conflict that's all over the news, and
your side of it is being framed as the bad guy.
And without thinking and without hesitating, I embraced this person
and we cried, and then we spent the next few
(21:25):
hours becoming friends. I think I don't think it was
just casual conversation, but we spent the next few hours
caring about each other and sharing stories and talking about
our family and our kids and our plights, but more importantly,
how without the proper information in education, there's a lot
of people who have no idea how to hear her
(21:47):
side of the story. And before I was even able
to reach out to Ramses or Chris to kind of
see how they felt about it, I thought it our
responsibility to get this person a platform. And I am
so grateful that she took me up on that offer
and is sitting here with us, because I knew before
(22:10):
that flight land that I loved this person and would
fight for them and had their back, and that person
would mean something to me and my family moving forward,
and she, without hesitation said yes to to my invitation.
So thank you for what an actual human being experience
is like. Neither of us at any point during that
(22:32):
conversation said hey, let's make sure we leave the politics
out of this, because that's an unnecessary thing to say
when your intentions are genuine in my opinion, so what
Ramse just said us kind of looking at each other
while we're listening to you, like, man, the similarities and
the things that we share with regards to our plights
(22:52):
are Wow. But realizing that right now it's time for
us to be there for you in any way that
we can, I think is important. And thank you Ramseys
for always having that spirit. Always, even when I'm mad
and angry and stand offish, Ramses always has a love spirit.
A hey man, we have to do what we can
(23:14):
to build these bridges back, even when I'm kind of
hopeless and feel like it's impossible and bro, that's not
going to happen. He has a sense of optimism that
I'm glad my son has that. He has an uncle
that has that and he now has an idea or
an aunt that has that spirit as well. So you know,
(23:36):
and we learned this today. I'll have you both look
at the screen here. That is a fact that I
did not know and wow, not just considered to be
a terrorist, but on the United States Terrorists watch list
until two thousand and eight, Nelson Mandela. Wow.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
So with that in mind, let's give the final thought
to you. I know you had plenty of notes.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Let's go through. Let's go through the notes.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
There's just it's you know what these notes are. These
notes are a justification and explaining why we deserve to
be listened to. So what I want to do just
with one final word, and I should say something very poetic,
but I'm not going to because it's too important. This
(24:26):
has It's not just about what happens in Palestine. Everything
that happens in the world happens on the back of Palestine.
This issue is so important for the whole world. And
you can think what's happening over there, and it's so sad,
but you know it doesn't affect me here. There are
(24:47):
states that are trying to pass and have successfully passed
laws where you, if you work for the state, have
to sign a document. This is in Arizona, in Texas,
in Arkansas and other places where you cannot boycott the
state of Israel. Senator sorry Governor Greg Abbott of Texas said,
(25:12):
this is part of the anti BDS law. BDS is boycott,
divestment sanctions. This is what helps South Africa achieve the
end of apartheid. This is our non violent direct action
that we are trying to utilize, and in our non violence,
they are so afraid of it that the State of Israel.
And I sent you that clip and I would love
for you to play. That is the state of Israel.
(25:33):
You don't have to play now has worked with the
United States to create laws that benefit of foreign nation
that now, I, if I work for the state of
Arizona cannot.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Go ahead, real quick describe the clip because I believe
it was the president or it was.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
The Prime Minister. And then yeah, saying, guess what, we
are passing laws that say that you cannot stand against
Israel in the United States. I don't care if it
makes people mad. This is going to happen. We're doing it.
And he's saying it with just such So yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
How us, Yes, we on the ground cannot protest the violence.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
That is he's fully protests, just boycotting.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
We can't protest.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
You as a citizen cannot boycott the state of Israel. You,
as a United States citizen cannot boycott the State of
Israel without without punishment. So, Governor, governor, what is it?
Greg Abbott said, Texas stands with Israel period. An anti
Israel policy is an anti Texas policy.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
There was a children's speech therapist in Texas who was
asked to sign an oath never to join a call
to boycott Israel. For as long as she held the job.
This is affecting us. This is affecting our freedom of
speech in America. And you think it's going to stop here,
You think it's going to stop at Israel. Well, I'm
(26:59):
I is real, So I don't care if this is
this law exists, right, you can say that, but you
think it's going to stop there. Whoever's in office, whatever
laws that they want, however it suits them, they're going
to create laws, but they want to take away our
number one right, freedom of speech. This has hit our homeland,
This has hit our turf, and to sit idly by
(27:21):
and think that it's not happening to us is really dangerous.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Oh listen, black folks. Next time it's another George Floyd
or whatever. If they have these things in the books,
you know, it's very easy to use this framework and
roll it out into our freedoms of speech that we've
used time and again throughout our history in this country
(27:47):
with protesting and nonviolent resistance and you know, twenty twenty
and so forth. So I see exactly what you're saying.
This is I see the template that they're using. When
you sent that clip over, I was like, oh my god,
and I was wondering if it was like deep fake.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
But it shows you how how powerful nonviolent movements can be,
and it shows you how scared they are of the
truth getting out. So that's actually a positive, which if
we can think of it that way.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
My biggest fear is those smug, arrogant people in power
that make those type of videos and feel that way
that they're able to not try to take these things.
They're just taking them, like we're watching this happen in
front of us. They're taking whatever they want. And you know,
we've become so disenfranchised with our political process that they
get to fill up chambers of commerce and legislators and.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
Politicians and people power that will do their bidding with
nosce it's moral resistant. They get supporting fact so really
scaring me. So I know that was key. But I
see you have some notes, and this is make sure
(29:00):
you say everything that you need to say. I want
you to feel like you've expressed yourself, and then I
want you to feel welcome to come back if there's
more to talk about.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
But if you feel like we've given people enough to digest,
we can leave it here. But I just don't want
you to feel like I'll leave it with us.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
There's a chant that we say, from the river to
the sea, Palestine will be free. There are people who
choose to which is so wild, how you need to
convolute it so much in order to get to this
end point of this maze. But they've chosen to say
this must mean the eradication of Israeli people, and that's
(29:38):
people have thought this. When we say from the river
to the sea, Palestine will be free. All we're asking
is if you look at the map of Palestine and
what is now mostly Israel, on one side you have
the Mediterranean Sea and on one side you have the
River Jordan. And what we're saying is between those two
bodies of water, we just want to be free.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Well, I to thank you for coming on and sharing
your thoughts and giving us some perspective and insight into
really areas that we don't know too much about. It's
important that we're educated and we know why we feel
(30:19):
a way, whether or not that way is the right
way to feel. And we have a template and a
framework as Q mentioned, to change how we feel and
feel like there's a soft space to land if we've
been wrong in the past and I hope that we've
done a little bit of that today. Certainly, if we
have done it, it's been because of your involvement, your input,
(30:42):
and your willingness to come up here twice now and
have difficult conversations again. You were not I'm gonna just
say this to my sister. You are not born to suffer.
You are not born to die. You're not born to
just fight do any of these things. You deserve to
be happy, deserve to be heard, and you deserve to
have your existence about dated. You deserve to smile and
play and have grand children. You know, whenever that time
(31:06):
comes out. You know, I don't know which that's what
you want, but you know what I'm saying, you get
to Everybody deserves that. Something I talk about with Q
a lot, and I just can't thank you enough for
giving us this moment. Q. As always, you are balance
(31:27):
of my brain, you know, keep me grounded in the
real world. And I know that I have a tendency
to think everything's going to be okay, and often we
need that sort of measured approach, not that kind of
pie in the sky it'll work itself out type of energy.
And so I appreciate you helping me out with this
conversation because you knew, we both knew that this would
(31:48):
be a tougher conversation to have. I didn't cry once.
I'm proud of myself anyway. Once again, ladies and gentlemen,
Today's guest is Susanne Awesome. She is a human rights major,
former actress, Miss Arab former Miss Arab USA, as well
as an activist turned writer, and most importantly for this conversation,
(32:10):
she is our Palestinian sister. You are welcome to come
back anytime and do us a favor before you leave.
Let people know your social media. I know you have
a book that you've written, so Filfrey to plug the
book and just let people have some of that connective
tissue so that they can keep up with you as
(32:30):
you continue to give us insight into.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
It's important for me to while being a Palsenian is
my identity and something that I'm so proud of, and
it is I'm not afraid to tell people because I
just it's my I smile and my chest gets bigger
when I talk about it. It's something that I love,
(32:55):
but I am also other things. So I wrote a
book about It's a dark comedy about postpar depression and anxiety,
because there's other parts of a person, and that was
something that on a human level, a mother I struggled
with and it needed to be talked about, and it
needed to be talked about in a way that was
without shame. So I say all the dark thoughts that
(33:15):
we're all thinking as mama's but we can't say out loud.
I'll say it, you know, I don't. I don't. We
need that. We need somebody who's just like what it is.
It's called post pardon me, fickle woman's spiral into postpartum depression.
It'll make you laugh, it'll make you cry a little bit.
I talked about Harry Potter a lot. I'm so sorry.
It's it's just a part of who I am. And
(33:37):
but my Instagram handle is the only place I live
digitally is Susy team Aslam.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Can you spell it please?
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Sue's is s u z y A T I M
you team. That's my Palcinian last name, oslam A s
l A M.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
And that's all one word. No space is no underscores.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Yes there and you can find Q at I am
Q Warden. You know where to find me at Rams
and just like with any other episode, I know this
was a longer one, We've had to chop it up
into pieces. We appreciate you staying tuned for this conversation,
but hopefully you feel like we do that it was
well worth listening. To share your thoughts, use the red
(34:15):
microphone talk back feature on the iHeartRadio app. Reach out
to us. Let's have this conversation. We'd love to hear
from you, and until we do peace. This has been
a production of the Black Information Network. Today's show is
produced by Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts you'd like to share,
Use the red microphone talkback feature on the iHeartRadio app.
While you're there, be sure to hit subscribe and download
(34:37):
all of our episodes. I'm your host, Ramsey's job on
all social media. Join us tomorrow as we share our
news with our voice from our perspective right here on
the Black Information Network Daily Podcast
And now part three of our three parts special with
Palestinian American human rights major and former Miss arab USA
Susanne Osla. In this final installment, two Wards starts us
off with understanding how to approach conversations with people who
have opposing opinions. This is the Black Information Network Daily podcast,
(00:36):
and I am your host, Ramsey's job.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
The amount of things that I learned from the both
of you, just with regards to replying and responding to
people with love and allowing people a space to have
made a mistake and be redeemed in their thought is
really something that I have to say with the microphone on.
When we first started Civic Cipher, Ramsen and I were
(01:01):
dealing with that, but it was more like a Fox
versus other American news outlets, because Fox was like this
state seemed to be this Republican state run entity that
was intentionally reporting news that was nonsense because it was
in their best fiscal interest, and you know, some people
in power over there were making those decisions like full
(01:23):
out one hundred percent. There's nobody on the network that
was saying anything that was even remotely true. Again, we
are in a place where there's an other ring of
another group of people, So the whole country now Fox, MSNBCC,
and then all the news gets to come slighted because
there's an other to point to as the bad guy.
And both of you have this lead with love heart
(01:48):
that is absolutely necessary because Ramses taught me we cannot
create a space where people cannot be redeemed. So if
they didn't have the diversity and thought of the emotional
intelligence to see things different, that they're stuck in that
space so that they cling to it and they fortify it,
and now they're going to lean harder into the only
place they're allowed to be. So giving people a space
(02:08):
to say I'm sorry and I didn't know and not
I told you sold them to death and make them
feel ridiculous like they can't be redeemed and they can't
be taught and they can't change their mind. I want
to commend both of you out loud for that, because
I've been so critical sometimes ram just knows as I
get so upset, I'm not even Raps has to remind
me you cannot be cold to a point where people
(02:31):
can't be forgiven and can't be redeemed, like you have
to lead with love and have some space for people
to kind of come back to reality, because it's very
easy for this propaganda machine of media and television to
trick people and them not knowing any better and really
passionately feel the way they do, even if it's because
they're been indoctrinated and haven't been really educated. And something
(02:53):
that I want to point out before we moved on,
sixty five percent of those killed have been children.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
That's why this isn't a conversation like.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
So if the numbers ten thousand, sixty five hundred children,
not soldiers, not men, like you said before, children, that
is not what a war looks like.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
When before the show, we were talking Ramses and I
and I was saying, how I was asked to speak
on this, but bring in the human element on a
different show, bring in the human element. And they were like,
you know, and we're gonna would really like to try
to keep the politics out of it and just talk
and you know, just talk about your family and.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Story.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
And I was well, I was like, I was like, okay,
I love I love the human element. And that's why
it's so good. You know, if there's a problem happening
in Palestine, you talk to Palestinians because you need to
humanize it. And how else do you humanize other than
seeing their faces and hearing their voices and knowing their stories?
And so I said, I would love to do that. However,
I can't come in and not talk about politics, because
(04:13):
here's the truth of it, my very birth, being born
a Palestinian is inherently political, not by choice. I don't
want this, guys. I don't want to talk about this.
I would rather would rather not talk Why what's so fun? No,
go ahead, I would rather not talk about this. I
would rather talk about it. I shouldn't have to justify
(04:34):
my existence. Yes, but I've been having to do this.
I can't wait to hear this. Okay, so, but I've
been having to do this my entire life. I will
meet people who've never been to Palestine, never even talk
to a Palestinian, and they will meet me and they
will go they're like, oh, you know where you're read
from a Palestinian, And they instantly have an opinion about
(04:54):
my very existence, whether or not Palestinians or even real Hello,
New Gingridge, whether or not Palestinians are even real. They
have an opinion on And I'm like oh, I'm fake now,
like I don't exist. What is this? But so for
us to say let's have this conversation, let's remove politics
out of it, is so they didn't mean it in
(05:16):
this way, but they don't understand. They don't understand that. Sadly,
the life of a Palestinian everyday dinner conversation is did
you hear what the state of Israel just did every
single Did you hear what happened to your cousin my
mom being arrested at the age of twelve as collective
punishment or entire class was arrested at the age of
(05:38):
twelve without their family being informed. You want to tell
me that I can't make that that's not political.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
It's yes, Quentin, I'm raising my hand like we're in class.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
I feel that way.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Because some of those people ask you to remove politics
on purpose, and that's my talk about you guys as hearts,
that's my pushback, Like ram just gives people a grace
sometimes that's undeserved. Yes, some people are ignorant and don't
know any better. Some people are very intentionally saying that
(06:12):
let's leave the politics out of it, so you don't
end up calling them racists. You don't end up calling
them nationalists, so you don't end up calling them fascist
or bigots or whatever is going to come out when
they start talking about their quote unquote political beliefs. It's
not about the politics. It's about your lack of humanity
and your lack of empathy. It's not your political position,
it's how you feel about other people, because you feel
(06:33):
like there are people that you can justifiably placed beneath you,
and you don't want to have that uncomfortable conversation. You
want us to remove politics from the conversation when we
start talking, so everybody can be friendly and kumbayan and
hold hands. When some of you are very, very intentionally
on the side that you're on it, it's not all ignorance.
Of course, there are a lot of people that don't
(06:54):
know any better. Some people absolutely do and they're absolutely
intentionally racist, intentionally see themselves as supremacist, and intentionally placed
some of us beneath them. So it's not always ignorance.
Sometimes people are bad people.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
I hate that, but it might be true. In the
last month, obviously, I've had a lot of conversations about this,
and I've been really blessed to be able to educate people,
and I do it happily. Sometimes it's frustrating. A conversation
I had once in this time was it reminded me
it's just so funny how history repeats itself. It was, okay,
(07:33):
so what do you guys want, Like, what do you want?
And I'm like, well, we want freedom, and they're like, right,
but what does that mean. Is it like a one state?
Is it a two state? I'm like, oh, my god, okay,
so we don't even We tried for a two state,
but then they broke apart every piece of land that
we even had our hands on, so that's not a possibility.
By the way, they don't want a one state because
that means we don't have to live together, which is
not what the State of Israel wants. They don't want
(07:54):
Palestinians there. But so we haven't had the opportunity to
have a conversation of what our future looks like. The
response goes, well, then I don't so it sounds like
you guy don't really know what you want.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I'm like, okay.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
So that was the first part. The second part was
and God bless this person for continuingly asking and me, oh,
and God bless me if you're trying so hard to
But the second part was, well, if you guys got freedom,
then how do we know that Israelis are going to
be protected? Do you know what this reminded me of?
This reminded me of, well, what happens if we give
black people freedom? Aren't they just going to kill all
(08:26):
the white people? This was a concern right in the
days of ending slavery, right, I.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Think it's still a concerned today somehow, even though we've
done a.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Little thing to the point a little bit, a little bit,
And so that idea was like, so it was maddening
to me because here's this violent, occupying power that is
committing ethnic cleansing and genocide against a group of people
who want freedom. And they're like, right, but we've been
so horrible to you. If we give you freedom, you're
gonna you might hurt us back. And that's so so
(08:57):
scary to them.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Yes, Quintin, to consider yourself a decent person when you're
doing something horrendous, you have to in your own mind think, well,
anybody in this position would do this. So that's where
that if we freedom, they'll hurt us back. Mentality comes
from We're not disgusting people. This is what anyone would
(09:20):
do take their land back, or to whatever their explanation is,
to themselves. They can't just be disgusting. They have to
be doing what anyone would do to protect their prosperity
and prosterity. So yes, if we freedom, they're going to
want stuff back because they're just as bad as us.
We're not people, We're not just as bad as you.
We just want to exist. We've never tried to belittle you,
(09:44):
even in our cries for freedom. We don't cry for
your capture or your mutilation or your harm, violence against
you at all. Never. We just want to exist and
be okay, and you not intentionally do us harm. I'm
trying to say, this is so nice, not mad.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
I know I haven't cursed once, and I'm really proud
of myself because that's just not how I talk.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
You can't if some of you will see this, but
I'm grabbing rams.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Really are trying to just great, You're.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Not sound like an angry man on this show.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Things things get complicated and not complicated to your point.
Nelson Mandela tried so hard for nonviolent direct action and
they got him and his whole organization, they got pushed
underground and they ended up using armed resistance. The second
they ended up using armed resistance, they were labeled terrorists.
Nelson Mandela was a terrorist in the United States until
(10:35):
two thousand and eight. He had been imprisoned already for
twenty seven years, he had already been freaking president of
his country, and he was still until two thousand and
eight labeled Nelson Mandela. I mean, the man is a saint. Now,
Like if you think, oh, you're just like Nelson Mandela,
what a compliment that would be, right, but he so Look,
we cannot we cannot look at what governments say and do.
(10:57):
If a government, our government would say no else in
Mandela was a terrorist up until I want to say,
two thousand and eight. Wasn't that long ago, But I
think it kind of was. No, that's not that long listen,
that's because we're older. But apparently it was a long
time ago. But if he was a terrorist up until
two thousand and eight, and the United States is of America,
it tells me that we have to look at our
(11:20):
government with a massive amount of skepticism. They do not
have anybody's best interest at heart. They seek to divide.
They have a narrative that they want us to ingest.
And I know this because my entire life I've always
known the truth about Palestine, but my entire life I
(11:41):
have had to explain it to Americans because they use
the same They use the same words, which means that
you're all being fed the same script. Israel has a
right to defend itself. If you hear people say that phrase,
that means they have heard it over and over again.
They are not using any critical thinking, but they think
it's their own novel idea. Oh yeah, you know what
(12:02):
is real. Every state has a right to defend themselves.
Except for Palestinians. We don't, but everybody else does. And
so when you say that, we're like, oh, you haven't
used any critical thinking. And there are certain terms like
that that have been used throughout my thirty eight years
on this earth. Isn't that long. I know it's a
long time, but it's always been the same story. And
(12:24):
it just tells me why I look younger. Yes, bless you,
bless you, bless you, God you're here. Okay, No, it's sorry,
ladies and gentlemen. They are flattering their their podcast guests.
Go ahead, the narrative is so particular and so strategic,
(12:46):
and being on the other side of it and actually
knowing the truth and then watching what is being fed
to my fellow Americans shows me so much about what
they want you to know versus what's really happening.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Today we are joined by Suzanne Oslam and Q War
discussing the Palestinian perspective of the Israel Hamas war and
the Free Palestine movement. So let me say this, and
I want to get some final thoughts because I know
(13:27):
you made some notes before we wrap up, but I
want to say this. You said something that was really
interesting when you were saying that, you know, my existence
is political. Effectually, that was what you communicated, and in
learning why a lot of black activists in the United
(13:56):
States have taken up the position of let's support Palestine.
They need our support. Let's make some noise on the
ground here, let's call out the president for enabling the
ethnic cleansing, and you know, and so forth. The commonalities
(14:23):
there in what you're saying about being your birth being political.
I think that that's shared and this is part of
why Q and I were like, man, this sounds really
familiar because on this show, we recognize that our being
(14:43):
born is political. There's a this is this is a
moment where I feel it's it's appropriate that we share
this with you. So this is not an intention, and
this is not my intention of taking anything away from
this moment with respect to my Palestinian brothers and sisters,
(15:05):
but to suggest that I can understand and respect this plight.
You know that I'm black from across the street. I
got a big ol' afro. You could you could tell
that's there's only one type of head to grows this hair. Right,
my skin it's all brown all over me. And so
(15:28):
that's kind of what you know, that's what it means
to be melanated. Right, So everybody knows that you can't
tell if I'm Jewish, you can't tell it from nothing.
You can tell I'm black, though, if you have eyes,
you can tell them. And living a political life where
(15:52):
I understand that the optics surrounding a person like me,
by those with authority, by those with the capacity to
hand out punitive not punitive. But what's the word I'm
looking for? Like punishments?
Speaker 3 (16:09):
And right?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, yeah, but I was I was gonna say something different,
but yeah, to hand out punishments to determine my future
in a systemic way that the future of me and
my people without my involved, Like, I'm not as able
to shape my future as much as they are, you know,
with with the stroke of a pen or with the
(16:32):
misremembering of facts or whatever. Right my existence is political,
I've lived in a country as a second class citizen.
I don't need to make that case for you, because
Angela Davis will make it for me. Right. So, again,
there's a lot of commonality there in terms of kind
of seeing what is going on in Palestine and what
(16:53):
has happened historically with black people in this country. That said,
I have to say that there's a lot of anality
with Jewish people. I'm not talking about Israel, I'm talking
about Jewish people. It's important for me to say this
part because Jewish people and Black people we've done a
lot of good things in our history together in this country,
not the least of which is the NAACP, the founding
(17:14):
of the NAACP. But there's the other part of it
that I think is really really important, and I think
that I want to say it to you, and if
you share this with any people who have lived the
life that you live, or I can see the world
through the lens through what you be the world. We say,
(17:37):
you and I say that we were not born to
write only. We were not born to suffer only. We
were not born to We get to be happy to,
We get to be proud, we get to be free.
(17:57):
And this is not something that is exclusive to us.
This is something that we've learned should be our reality.
We should dedicate our time to fighting and pushing causes together.
We should dedicate time to We should allow the times
in our lives where we have to suffer through some stuff.
We should embrace that. Learn who we are relative to
that suffering. Grow as a result of that suffering. Inform
(18:19):
the people that come behind us to minimize, you know,
their suffering, but let them know that it's a part
of life and we should move past that. But we
should not perpetually be in a state of suffering. We
should not perpetually be in a state of mental anguish.
That's not fair, That's what I would say, Right, that's
not fair. We get to be happy to, right. And
(18:39):
so I want to make sure that before we finish
our conversation today that I think that a lot of
the support that you may have seen from black activists
in this country comes from that same spirit of that's
not fair. They deserve more than that. I know what
(19:00):
that feels like. I am a fighter, and they're fighting,
and they should not have to fight alone. They should
not have to fight forever, and they should not have
to fight a losing battle. If I had to guess,
if I'm speaking for other I'm definitely acting as c
as too. But if I'm speaking for others, I think
that I want to make sure that I say that.
And if I'm able to share this platform with the
Black Information Network with you so that you can give
(19:24):
a voice to what your people are going through, it
is not a it is an honor. It is an
honor to be able to do that for you.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Thank you, Thank you. There's a woman in my life
who is most responsible for the version of me that
anybody meets today. Her name is Reverend Estella Secret. On
my way to Baltimore, Maryland to celebrate a friend of mine,
(19:54):
you know, an incredible career achievement for a friend of mine,
I got a call from my older sister that that
woman had been rushed to the emergency room. So this
changed my destination. But on a flight en route to
what I thought was going to be Baltimore, Maryland, I
sat next to two strangers, and before our flight took off,
(20:17):
one of those strangers got upgraded and moved to another
seat closer to the front of the plane. We all
know what that means, which left me next to another
stranger with a seat in between us. So we both
got to feel like we got upgraded to first class too,
a little more leg room, little more elbow space. And
I don't know how we got to this point in
(20:40):
the conversation, but there was a moment when this stranger
made it known to me that they were Palestinian, and
I have to feel like that prior to my reaction
could have been a little bit uncomfortable, because you don't
know how people in this country you're going to respond
(21:01):
to learning that about you when you're on the other
side of this conflict that's all over the news, and
your side of it is being framed as the bad guy.
And without thinking and without hesitating, I embraced this person
and we cried, and then we spent the next few
(21:25):
hours becoming friends. I think I don't think it was
just casual conversation, but we spent the next few hours
caring about each other and sharing stories and talking about
our family and our kids and our plights, but more importantly,
how without the proper information in education, there's a lot
of people who have no idea how to hear her
(21:47):
side of the story. And before I was even able
to reach out to Ramses or Chris to kind of
see how they felt about it, I thought it our
responsibility to get this person a platform. And I am
so grateful that she took me up on that offer
and is sitting here with us, because I knew before
(22:10):
that flight land that I loved this person and would
fight for them and had their back, and that person
would mean something to me and my family moving forward,
and she, without hesitation said yes to to my invitation.
So thank you for what an actual human being experience
is like. Neither of us at any point during that
(22:32):
conversation said hey, let's make sure we leave the politics
out of this, because that's an unnecessary thing to say
when your intentions are genuine in my opinion, so what
Ramse just said us kind of looking at each other
while we're listening to you, like, man, the similarities and
the things that we share with regards to our plights
(22:52):
are Wow. But realizing that right now it's time for
us to be there for you in any way that
we can, I think is important. And thank you Ramseys
for always having that spirit. Always, even when I'm mad
and angry and stand offish, Ramses always has a love spirit.
A hey man, we have to do what we can
(23:14):
to build these bridges back, even when I'm kind of
hopeless and feel like it's impossible and bro, that's not
going to happen. He has a sense of optimism that
I'm glad my son has that. He has an uncle
that has that and he now has an idea or
an aunt that has that spirit as well. So you know,
(23:36):
and we learned this today. I'll have you both look
at the screen here. That is a fact that I
did not know and wow, not just considered to be
a terrorist, but on the United States Terrorists watch list
until two thousand and eight, Nelson Mandela. Wow.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
So with that in mind, let's give the final thought
to you. I know you had plenty of notes.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Let's go through. Let's go through the notes.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
There's just it's you know what these notes are. These
notes are a justification and explaining why we deserve to
be listened to. So what I want to do just
with one final word, and I should say something very poetic,
but I'm not going to because it's too important. This
(24:26):
has It's not just about what happens in Palestine. Everything
that happens in the world happens on the back of Palestine.
This issue is so important for the whole world. And
you can think what's happening over there, and it's so sad,
but you know it doesn't affect me here. There are
(24:47):
states that are trying to pass and have successfully passed
laws where you, if you work for the state, have
to sign a document. This is in Arizona, in Texas,
in Arkansas and other places where you cannot boycott the
state of Israel. Senator sorry Governor Greg Abbott of Texas said,
(25:12):
this is part of the anti BDS law. BDS is boycott,
divestment sanctions. This is what helps South Africa achieve the
end of apartheid. This is our non violent direct action
that we are trying to utilize, and in our non violence,
they are so afraid of it that the State of Israel.
And I sent you that clip and I would love
for you to play. That is the state of Israel.
(25:33):
You don't have to play now has worked with the
United States to create laws that benefit of foreign nation
that now, I, if I work for the state of
Arizona cannot.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Go ahead, real quick describe the clip because I believe
it was the president or it was.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
The Prime Minister. And then yeah, saying, guess what, we
are passing laws that say that you cannot stand against
Israel in the United States. I don't care if it
makes people mad. This is going to happen. We're doing it.
And he's saying it with just such So yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
How us, Yes, we on the ground cannot protest the violence.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
That is he's fully protests, just boycotting.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
We can't protest.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
You as a citizen cannot boycott the state of Israel. You,
as a United States citizen cannot boycott the State of
Israel without without punishment. So, Governor, governor, what is it?
Greg Abbott said, Texas stands with Israel period. An anti
Israel policy is an anti Texas policy.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
There was a children's speech therapist in Texas who was
asked to sign an oath never to join a call
to boycott Israel. For as long as she held the job.
This is affecting us. This is affecting our freedom of
speech in America. And you think it's going to stop here,
You think it's going to stop at Israel. Well, I'm
(26:59):
I is real, So I don't care if this is
this law exists, right, you can say that, but you
think it's going to stop there. Whoever's in office, whatever
laws that they want, however it suits them, they're going
to create laws, but they want to take away our
number one right, freedom of speech. This has hit our homeland,
This has hit our turf, and to sit idly by
(27:21):
and think that it's not happening to us is really dangerous.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Oh listen, black folks. Next time it's another George Floyd
or whatever. If they have these things in the books,
you know, it's very easy to use this framework and
roll it out into our freedoms of speech that we've
used time and again throughout our history in this country
(27:47):
with protesting and nonviolent resistance and you know, twenty twenty
and so forth. So I see exactly what you're saying.
This is I see the template that they're using. When
you sent that clip over, I was like, oh my god,
and I was wondering if it was like deep fake.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
But it shows you how how powerful nonviolent movements can be,
and it shows you how scared they are of the
truth getting out. So that's actually a positive, which if
we can think of it that way.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
My biggest fear is those smug, arrogant people in power
that make those type of videos and feel that way
that they're able to not try to take these things.
They're just taking them, like we're watching this happen in
front of us. They're taking whatever they want. And you know,
we've become so disenfranchised with our political process that they
get to fill up chambers of commerce and legislators and.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
Politicians and people power that will do their bidding with
nosce it's moral resistant. They get supporting fact so really
scaring me. So I know that was key. But I
see you have some notes, and this is make sure
(29:00):
you say everything that you need to say. I want
you to feel like you've expressed yourself, and then I
want you to feel welcome to come back if there's
more to talk about.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
But if you feel like we've given people enough to digest,
we can leave it here. But I just don't want
you to feel like I'll leave it with us.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
There's a chant that we say, from the river to
the sea, Palestine will be free. There are people who
choose to which is so wild, how you need to
convolute it so much in order to get to this
end point of this maze. But they've chosen to say
this must mean the eradication of Israeli people, and that's
(29:38):
people have thought this. When we say from the river
to the sea, Palestine will be free. All we're asking
is if you look at the map of Palestine and
what is now mostly Israel, on one side you have
the Mediterranean Sea and on one side you have the
River Jordan. And what we're saying is between those two
bodies of water, we just want to be free.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Well, I to thank you for coming on and sharing
your thoughts and giving us some perspective and insight into
really areas that we don't know too much about. It's
important that we're educated and we know why we feel
(30:19):
a way, whether or not that way is the right
way to feel. And we have a template and a
framework as Q mentioned, to change how we feel and
feel like there's a soft space to land if we've
been wrong in the past and I hope that we've
done a little bit of that today. Certainly, if we
have done it, it's been because of your involvement, your input,
(30:42):
and your willingness to come up here twice now and
have difficult conversations again. You were not I'm gonna just
say this to my sister. You are not born to suffer.
You are not born to die. You're not born to
just fight do any of these things. You deserve to
be happy, deserve to be heard, and you deserve to
have your existence about dated. You deserve to smile and
play and have grand children. You know, whenever that time
(31:06):
comes out. You know, I don't know which that's what
you want, but you know what I'm saying, you get
to Everybody deserves that. Something I talk about with Q
a lot, and I just can't thank you enough for
giving us this moment. Q. As always, you are balance
(31:27):
of my brain, you know, keep me grounded in the
real world. And I know that I have a tendency
to think everything's going to be okay, and often we
need that sort of measured approach, not that kind of
pie in the sky it'll work itself out type of energy.
And so I appreciate you helping me out with this
conversation because you knew, we both knew that this would
(31:48):
be a tougher conversation to have. I didn't cry once.
I'm proud of myself anyway. Once again, ladies and gentlemen,
Today's guest is Susanne Awesome. She is a human rights major,
former actress, Miss Arab former Miss Arab USA, as well
as an activist turned writer, and most importantly for this conversation,
(32:10):
she is our Palestinian sister. You are welcome to come
back anytime and do us a favor before you leave.
Let people know your social media. I know you have
a book that you've written, so Filfrey to plug the
book and just let people have some of that connective
tissue so that they can keep up with you as
(32:30):
you continue to give us insight into.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
It's important for me to while being a Palsenian is
my identity and something that I'm so proud of, and
it is I'm not afraid to tell people because I
just it's my I smile and my chest gets bigger
when I talk about it. It's something that I love,
(32:55):
but I am also other things. So I wrote a
book about It's a dark comedy about postpar depression and anxiety,
because there's other parts of a person, and that was
something that on a human level, a mother I struggled
with and it needed to be talked about, and it
needed to be talked about in a way that was
without shame. So I say all the dark thoughts that
(33:15):
we're all thinking as mama's but we can't say out loud.
I'll say it, you know, I don't. I don't. We
need that. We need somebody who's just like what it is.
It's called post pardon me, fickle woman's spiral into postpartum depression.
It'll make you laugh, it'll make you cry a little bit.
I talked about Harry Potter a lot. I'm so sorry.
It's it's just a part of who I am. And
(33:37):
but my Instagram handle is the only place I live
digitally is Susy team Aslam.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Can you spell it please?
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Sue's is s u z y A T I M
you team. That's my Palcinian last name, oslam A s
l A M.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
And that's all one word. No space is no underscores.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Yes there and you can find Q at I am
Q Warden. You know where to find me at Rams
and just like with any other episode, I know this
was a longer one, We've had to chop it up
into pieces. We appreciate you staying tuned for this conversation,
but hopefully you feel like we do that it was
well worth listening. To share your thoughts, use the red
(34:15):
microphone talk back feature on the iHeartRadio app. Reach out
to us. Let's have this conversation. We'd love to hear
from you, and until we do peace. This has been
a production of the Black Information Network. Today's show is
produced by Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts you'd like to share,
Use the red microphone talkback feature on the iHeartRadio app.
While you're there, be sure to hit subscribe and download
(34:37):
all of our episodes. I'm your host, Ramsey's job on
all social media. Join us tomorrow as we share our
news with our voice from our perspective right here on
the Black Information Network Daily Podcast
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