Ep. 184 Udonis Haslem is a three-time NBA Champion, Miami HEAT legend, and NBA TV Analyst. He's now teaming up with Wells Fargo and the Rebuilding Together organization to make a lasting impact in the community by providing critical home repairs and safety modifications for families in need. Udonis is a businessman, philanthropist, and advocate for underserved communities, and this partnership furthers his efforts to uplift and inspire the next generation in his hometown of Miami, Florida.
Plus a look back to my chat with Derrick Faulcon of Cloudy Donut.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 3 (00:50):
You.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Donna's Haslam is a three time NBA Champion, Miami Heat Legend,
and NBA TV analysts. He's now teaming up with Wells
Fargo and the Rebuilding Together organization to make a lasting
impact in the community by providing critical home repairs and
safety modifications for families in need. The Donas is a businessman,
philanth Or bits an advocate for underserved communities, and this
(01:13):
partnership furthers his efforts uplift and inspire the next generation
in his hometown of Miami, Florida. As a businessman, you know,
sometimes often every relationship you get into as a business person,
you've got to vet to make sure that this aligns
with the things that are important to you. So, when
you think about doing things with underserved communities, what speaks
(01:33):
to you with regards to the initiatives you get involved with.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
I think for me, you know, having a connection to
the people in those communities, you know, never separating myself,
never walking around with security where people feel like they
can't approach me. I'm always in the communities, I'm always
in the hood, I'm always in the cities, and I
continue to listen to the people. You know, if you
want to walk up to me and have a conversation
with me, I'm all ears. I'm welcoming people with open arms,
(01:57):
you know. So I feel like that's always been The
best way to being able to impact your communities is
really listen directly to what the people are saying they
need and what they're dealing with. Oftentimes, the media can
pick and choose what they want to bring to us,
you know, the news can pick and choose what they
want to tell you about. But if you go in
these communities and you spend time with these people and
you just are there, you know, you'll get the just
(02:19):
of it, and you'll get the real and you'll understand
really what they're dealing with every day. You know, that
was the reason why you know, the dun Tasm Foundation
immediately got into, you know, the housing situation where we
were understanding the huge gap of okay, you need about
one hundred and ten thousand to live comfortably in South Slida,
but on average people only making sixty to seventy Okay,
that's about a forty fifty thousand dollars gap.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
Where how can people live comfortably?
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Now we're talking about getting into the fight and we
have to affordable housing projects. Now you look around and
you see well as far ago the Bank of Doing
and you understand, you know, what their initiative is, what
their goals are and then you say, okay, well maybe
we can collaborate. You know, maybe we can do this together.
You know, one thing I know about, you know, building
a championship team and a championship roster, is it takes
a collaboration of people with the same like mindset and
(03:03):
with the same goals. I think Wells Fargo had that goal,
The don Tasm Foundation had that goal. Wells Fargo, the
bank of doing your Donatasm has been a doer his
whole life, his whole career. Has never been scared to
get his hands dirty. They've never been scared to get
out there and get in the mud. And when I
wake up this morning and when I put up to
Miss Mabelhouse, I see people who are usually sitting in
the office behind the air conditioned working at tailors, and
(03:26):
now they're there. They're they're playing crop, they're lifting you know, microwaves,
they're lifting ovens, they're lifting stoves, they're putting grills outside,
and I know everybody's saying, okay, it's about one the
time we barbecue on Christmas down here Miami. We can
put a grill out anytime. That's one of the places
we can do this anywhere. So we talk about that man.
It was just you know, it was just a matchmate
(03:48):
of heaven. I was thankful to be the person that
you know wells Fargo reached out to and chose to
be a part of this because you know, it's everything
I represent. You know, I've made sure that throughout my
twenty year career. Although I've represented the meat, I've also
represented the community and the people of Miami.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So when you think about the myriad of opportunities you
could have done, like you could you could put your
name on a lot of you know, social issues, social
you know efforts. Why was housing so important to you?
Why what's what spoke to you about the housing initiative?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Because it's not what I need, it's what the people need,
you know, And I think that's what people need. I think,
you know, there's so many different situations that people are
being challenged with the underserved communities. But when you go
in your house, we understand what's going on outside your house.
But when you go in your house, you should feel safe.
You should feel comfortable, you should be happy, you should
be confident in that space, you should be fulfilled. That
(04:44):
should be a mental recharge place, and that's where you
can go and just be proud of everything and all
the work that you put into every single day. And
a lot of times it's hard to feel like that
when you don't see those results. It's hard to feel
like that when you walk into your home and you
don't feel safe. It's hard to feel like that when
you walk into you know, your yard and your gates
torn down. It's hard to feel like that when you
walk in your backyard and you know it's grass and
(05:06):
stuff everywhere, and you don't have a grid of barbecue,
or you don't have a garden where you can just
walk out there and on a sunny day and just
sit out by your guard and read the paper.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
You don't have those things.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
I think if you can have those things and you
can implement those things and everyday life, everyday life gets
a little better for you.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Everyday things get a little easier for you.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
And now you're talking about having a little bit of a
situation where you can be comfortable and you can be
proud of the place you call home. You just want
these people to be proud of the place they call home.
You want these people safe in the place they call home.
You want these people to be comfortable in these places
they call home, and I think everybody deserves that when you.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Think about I mean so actually, right now, the top
story on afrotech dot com is a story about you.
So it's talking about how you stayed on the Miami Heat,
you know, based on your efforts as a leader and
even Lebron and Chris Bosh and Dwayne you know, making
the room and so making sure that somebody with your
leadership and experience was still in the locker room. And
(06:02):
it's a quote I found from you where you said,
when you look at all these undrafted guys, these guys
who were on their way out of the league, and
people didn't believe in them, and people didn't give them
the opportunity, the Heat culture saved them. That's why I
came back, because I watched the culture save so many
like it saved me. When you think about that Heat culture,
(06:23):
you see undrafted players, people who were overlooked, and sometimes
they don't always take these opportunities. Seriously, what is it
you saw, as somebody who was on the tail end
of his career as your ability to galvanize those folks
behind a culture and a mission to be able to
go out there and create championship opportunities.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
I mean, I got to get credit to those guys.
You know, when those guys walk in that locker room
and you can see the sense of desperation.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
I relate.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
I relate to walking in the locker room of fifty
people and they only keeping one guy, and you got
to be that one guy that they keep. I can relate.
I can relate to not having a backup plan. I
can relate to, you know, having your back against the wall,
you know, and coming in every day, you know, feeling
like your life is on the line and like your
career depends on it. So I'm relatable to all these guys,
just like I'm relatable to Miss Maple. You know, Miss
(07:10):
Mabel was on one fifty third and my auntie stay
on one to eighty third.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
You know what I'm saying, which is thirty streets over.
You know what I mean. I literally showed up to.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Miss Mable's house about forty minutes early, and I went
around the corner and stayed at my auntie's house and
came back in Miss Maple's house.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
So I'm relatable to these people, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
I'm really relatable and I know that I've been blessed
to play the game of basketball. I had a tremendous
amount of success, but I'm really relatable to these people.
And you know, when I talk about you know, Lebron
James and Dwayne Wade, and you know.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Being a part of that process.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
That's one thing I was able to understand is that
even though we were friends, you know, you respect people
for who they are and what they are, you know
what I mean. And you know, Lebron, Dwayne, they already
respected me for who I was and what I was.
They were Southeast guys. I was a Miami guy, you
know what I mean. They were on the other side
of the bridge, was on my side of the bridge,
you know what I mean. So for me, I never
(08:03):
tried to be something I wasn't. I always stayed in
my lane, and my lane always brought me back to
the people, you know what I mean. And when you
talk about why you don't leave to go for more money,
and why you don't even have the opportunity to play
somewhere else, and when your career was getting towards the ending,
you weren't getting as much planning time as you might
have wanted, it's because of the people of Miami. Man,
I've never got in love. I've never been more protected.
(08:24):
I've never been more accepted than I am in this
city of Miami by these people. When you talk about
twenty years in the NBA and so much sus sens,
I ain't never have no security. You ain't never seen
me get robbed nowhere. You never see me get in
no trouble nowhere out here. You know, these people take
care of me.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
Man.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
So it's my job, it's my duty with my free time,
to commit to taking care of these people and giving
back to them so much that they've.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Given to me.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah, I want to talk more about that.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
You know, you are today vice president of basketball Development
at Miami and so you got a lot of leadership
in your background on court and off the court, and
I want to talk.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
About the off the court leadership.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
How do you transfer the things that you've learned on
the court to be able to be effective off the court.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Man, I'll tell you one thing about heat culture, and
it's real because it can apply in all expects of life.
The discipline that it takes to be a part of
heat culture to come in and have your body for
under ten percent every year, discipline that it takes to
push yourself to get that extra one percent out of
yourself every day.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
You know, the way we approach the game. You know,
I think.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Everything that I've learned and heat coached has been what
I've applied in the business.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
In the business space.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
I think when you retire from basketball, you don't lose
your ambition, you don't lose your drive.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
You just got to find somewhere else to apply it.
You just got to find somewhere else to put it.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
So being in that one percent of people that are
obsessed with winning, being in that one percent of people
that will do whatever it takes to get the job done,
being in that one percent of people that willing to
sacrifice the things that they need to sacrifice for the
betterment of the team. You know, we talk about enjoying
other people's success with they might need. That's one thing
that's non negotiable. You have to be able to enjoy
other people's success. But how many times do you see
(09:56):
people sit at home and they watch somebody achieve something
They said, that should have been me. Why didn't that
happen for me? That's never been a part of who
I am. That's never been a part of my DNA.
Speaker 6 (10:04):
Man.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
My thing is, if he did that, how can I
figure out how to apply that in my lifestyle? How
can I figure out how to achieve that here in Miami?
For my people, that's been always to go to learn
from the people that are doing it before you, to
learn from the Magic, to learn from Dwayne, to learn
from Shack. You know, having these relationship with these guys,
I'd be a fool just to take basketball stuff from
these guys. I have to take life lessons from these guys.
(10:25):
Ill to take business lessons from these guys. The conversations
that I have now with Shaquille O'Neil Dwayne Wade were
far different than the conversations we had fifteen years ago.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
You know, too many people in our communities lean on
rely on predatory services, check cashing places, payday loans, you know,
places like that, and so you know, which is super problematic.
So how important is it for bangs like Wells Fargo,
lenders like Wells Fargo to be involved in these neighborhoods
(10:57):
and in these communities.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
I mean, it's so important because we understand that financial
literacy kind of skipped over our people. Sometimes you know,
for the most part, you know, financial literacy has not
been taught. And then you talk about teaching people financial literacy,
but people that don't have money or didn't come from money,
you know what I'm saying. So I think for Wells
Fargo being you know, not only you know, hands on
(11:20):
with this and you know, putting the money where their
mouths is and committing one point too, you know, seventy
five different homes, you know, forty six communities, but not
also you're building a relationship. And I think what for
us in our community, it's always been hard for us
to trust people, you know what I'm saying. So when
you come in and you make an impact in the community,
immediately the people of the community started to trust you.
And now they started to listen to you, and now
(11:40):
you start to build that relationship so on and so forth.
So I think it was Fargo coming in and being
a part of this process and taking the lead on
this initiative. I think they started to build a relationship
with the people and I think that people start to
trust well as Fargo. So the messages that was far
go preaching, the people are going to listen now because
of the trust and the relationship that they build with
these people because they're actually doing things community not talking
(12:00):
about it.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, that's super good.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
I wonder you know how you view home ownership and
being able to be in your own place and being
able to excel and have a safe.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Place to live. From your perspective, what does that do
for the neighborhood.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
I mean, I think it does.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
It does wonders for the neighborhoods To pull into a
neighborhood where you look around and you say, hey, that
guy's own that house for twenty years and now his
son owns it, or that guy on it. It gives
a neighborhood substance, It gives neighborhood stability, It gives a
neighborhood pride, you know what I mean. And I think,
you know, homeowner, I'm coming from a situation where, you know,
I can say that my parents didn't own until I
(12:38):
bought a house for them, you know, when I when
I got old enough, you know, to buy a house
for them.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
You know, I grew up in a family where all
we did was we didn't know what it was to own.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
But I think when you get in a situation where
you can own a home now you're talking about something
that you can be proud of and that's going to
be in your family, and you talk about generational wealth.
It might not be considered generation wealth right away. But
where I'm from, if you can get a house in
your family, that's generational wealth because that'll go on with
your family forever. And not a lot of people have
homes in their households and they can say they have
(13:08):
a home that will be in their family forever. So
being the first person to be able to buy a
home in my family that's not going in my family forever,
and that might not be the world's version of generation wealth,
that was generational wealth for my family because.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
We never owned the home.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, can you talk a little bit more about that, Like,
you know, I want to dig into why this is
so important to you, because I think that is the
whole crux of this is, you know, can you talk
about your upbringing a little bit and why being able
to make this difference for you and the generations behind
you matters so much for you?
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Dunce man, I've.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
Seen it all.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
I've seen it all growing up, you know, and that's why,
you know, life is so precious to me. And now
when you experience, you know, so much trauma, when you've
seen so many l's all you want to do is win,
and all you want to do is help people win.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
You know.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
So for me, I've made it my life mission to win,
no matter what the circumstances, and to help people win.
Just because of the losses that I have had, because
of the trauma that I've had, so many things that
have been out of my control. I made it my
mission and I made it a point to control the
things that I can control, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
So I can control the energy that I put out.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
I can control the effort that I give to this
community and to these people.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
I can control sitting down with the mayors and the commissioners.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
I can control partnering and collaborating with Wells Fargo and
their initiative and being the bank of doing I can
control those things. Because the things I can't control was,
you know, losing my stepmother. The things I can't control
is losing my mother. I can't control losing my father.
You know, all the people that have raised me, all
the people that sacrificed for me, all the people who
I call mom, dad, stepmom or whatever. You know, they're
(14:38):
not here. So those are things that I could not control.
So I've literally learned in my life to control the
things that you can control. Man, And you know, there's
so much else. There's so many things that going to
happen that are going to knock you down. I think
life is about how can you pick I think life
is about how can you get up? How can you
respond to adversity? Because there's going to be adversity, you know,
(15:02):
so I like to get a testament to that. You know,
what you see here to now today, the dnicizing you
see now is someone who just continued to get up
and continue to respond to adversity. And that's why you
see the polished version that you see now.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
For those people who listen to you talk and they
have faced rejection, you know, they've been counted out. What
advice do you have for people who you know their
back is against the wall, but they they have a
vision for their life but don't know how to get there.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Stay in the saddle, you know, Stay in the saddle,
and don't be afraid to look yourself in the mirror
and change things about yourself. You know, the first thing
I did when I wasn't drafted. I had to go
to your was I looked at myself in the mirror.
Instead of pointing the finger at the NBA team that
said they made a mistake, I say, what.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Can I do first?
Speaker 6 (15:44):
Here?
Speaker 3 (15:44):
How can I change here? What can I change here?
How can I hold myself accountabilit accountable? Once again today's society,
accountability is a foreign language. Nobody wants to hear that.
Nobody wants to be held accountable.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
You know.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
They want to hold other people accountable when it's time
for them to be held accountable. Nobody wants to do
that sacrifice. You know, what do you in the sacrifice
to get where you're trying to go. I tell my
kids all this this all the time. You know, whatever
you want to do in life, you're gonna have a sacrifice.
Something's gonna happen. If you don't get to pick and
choose what you want to sacrifice, that's not your choice.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
You never know what you'll have to sacrifice to achieve
your goals or to get to your destination. But I
tell you one thing, It's not always about the destination.
It's about the journey, you know. So for me, It's
always been about the journey. And my journey has been
filled with challenges, peace and valleys. But I've always figured
out a way to come out on top and to
win in the end. I think I've been better for that.
(16:33):
I think I'm more confident now because of that, because
anything that comes my way, I feel like I can win.
I feel like I can win, and that's what I choose.
That's what I teach other people. That's what I preach
to people. Man, you know Miss Mabel, you know the
guys that I coach on my team and the young guys. Man,
whatever situation you're in, if you have the right mindset,
you can come out of it and you can win.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
What does it mean to be doing this in Miami?
Your hometown?
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Oh? What is it?
Speaker 4 (17:00):
That's why I stayed. That's why I stayed.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Man.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
I always played a long game. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
I have so many opportunities to go to so many
different places, but there's no impact. And this is my
gift to myself. You know, I don't need to give
myself much. You know what I'm saying. I'm a doer,
I'm a giarer, I'm a protector, I'm a provider. My
gift to myself is to be able to do this
here in this city, with these people, for these people.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
That's my.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Quick look back to my conversation with Derek Falcon Cloudy Donuts.
We've had this conversation about having a passion, growing up
with a passion to do a certain type of business, versus,
you know, finding an opportunity and just taking advantage of
the opportunity. And so often many people in our community
don't have the opportunity to be opportunistic. And when my
(17:51):
Connor house, you see, hey, there's money over there. Let
me put together this business. You know, I may not love,
you know, donuts, or I may not love gas stations,
or I may not love launchry masks, but there's an
opportunity there. So let's take advantage of that. We're told
all too often, in my opinion, find what you're passionate about,
find what you love when you could do that too,
but just find an opportunity to make some money. And
(18:13):
I wonder, because I don't imagine that you grew up
being passionate about donuts and wanting to own a donut shop,
you know, since you were a youngster. But can you
talk more about how we can realize success for ourselves
just in finding an opportunity in the marketplace.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
Yeah, so black people need to snap the fuck out
of it. That's the number one thing that we need
to do.
Speaker 6 (18:34):
Right.
Speaker 5 (18:35):
So, for white folks it's twenty twenty three. For black
folks it's nineteen twenty three. I'm sure the headphones that
were jogging on the computer that I'm looking at you
and was all created by white man. You got up
to dead, you picked up the white man's phone, and
you drove in a white man's cause, specifically maybe to the.
Speaker 6 (18:49):
White man's building.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Right.
Speaker 5 (18:51):
So, like, well, we got to understand a lot of
our black business is a very mom and poplight. So
the only way that we can boot up bootstrap ourselves
is through the three essays. So like me, I always
say saving plus sacrifice equal scaling. We need to learn
how to save some money as black people. Once you
learn how to save a dollar, you can put some
money away and you can build some things.
Speaker 6 (19:09):
Right. Another thing is we can't major in minor things.
Speaker 5 (19:12):
So many people caught up on having their name on
the front of the business that they missed the whole
play that the business is the purpose of the business
and what the value really is of having a business,
You see what I'm saying. So like when we speak
on the culture and being able to take advantage of
certain situations and not necessarily getting caught up what we're
passionate about, but doing something that's going to bring a
dollar in. Right, to me, that's the utmost important thing,
(19:35):
because in order for the world to be progressive and
move forward, you need creativity, right, But in order for
things to be creative, you need financial or you need economics, right.
Speaker 6 (19:46):
And I think like when I.
Speaker 5 (19:47):
Deal specifically with a lot of black creatives, they very
lofty and up in the air as to you know,
their product or the service that they provide the world with,
and then there's a sense of entitlement with that where
they're not really trying to put no real work in.
Speaker 6 (19:58):
Then I meet a lot of guys who want.
Speaker 5 (19:59):
Them to put a lot work in, but they don't
understand value, so they don't get for the work that
they put in.
Speaker 6 (20:05):
So I think, like, now, like you said, like.
Speaker 5 (20:08):
I'm not a donut conor Sue, I'm not a pastry
schef or a bigger I'm black, and I want to
own some you gotta like, if you black, the first
thing you need to do is own I'd rather own
a small house than run a big penthouse. And I think,
like we need to understand, like our wealth strategy and
these white folks wealth strategy is totally different.
Speaker 6 (20:27):
Our wealth strategy is.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
Gonna have to come from starting a small business that's
gonna be supported by black people, building a robust top
line for that business so that way you got disposable income,
which means that you can hire more black people. And
then taking that disposable income and figuring out how to
invest actively, because that's another thing I was talking to
the brother yesterday and the conversation where was you know,
the majority of the young people in the rush to
(20:49):
do nothing. Everybody wants to sit on the ass. You know,
you watch Instagram and you hear about passive income on
NFTs and crypto, and now you run into that that
ain't even your passion. You need to sit down, figure
out what it is that you like to do, put
some money behind that, because you can control your destiny.
The fastest way to become successful in this world is
to invest in yourself. We brag on the internet about
(21:10):
owning stocks in these white boy's companies, and that ain't
gonna get you nowhere because all you basically did was
give him money to further his business, and he gives
you a dividend.
Speaker 6 (21:19):
It's over with them. Days are over.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
So now it's time for you to invest in yourself,
invest in your team, invest in your man, your friend.
Don't buy the Nike stock. Your homeboy got a T
shirt line, give him a thousand dollars. Push that because
you can control the narrative. Don't buy the Apple stock.
Invest in black technology. It's just time, Like black people
need to.
Speaker 6 (21:40):
Snap out of it.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
You know when we pick these phones up every day,
we see yachts, and we see and we see hotels
across the world's in vacation. We don't own none of
that shit. So you go on this exotic vacation in
Monica and come right back to the apartment, you staying
with your brother, your sister, Like, we got to snap
out of it.
Speaker 6 (21:56):
So the number one thing I knew was like, YO,
life real.
Speaker 5 (21:59):
And if I I can't control my narrative, if I
can't control my narrative.
Speaker 6 (22:04):
I'm caught up in the next man situation. And I
can't have that.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Brooklyn Heights is seventy two percent white, one of the
most affluent neighborhoods in New York City. But Derek has
thrived with multiple locations, always situated in predominantly white environments.
And it's aiming to bring visibility, diversity and awareness of
these scenes with quality black owned products. And they pull up,
how does.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
He do it? Derek speaks, so on it.
Speaker 6 (22:40):
I'm gonna break it down.
Speaker 5 (22:40):
So you will black people have less than one percent
of the wealth in this country.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Agree, that's true. That's true.
Speaker 6 (22:47):
That's true, right, all right? So who got the majority
of the money? White folk got it.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Right, all right? So so.
Speaker 5 (22:54):
And then I got a high quality product, and you know,
white people got the money. And then white people when
they can sue. You gotta think about how white people
consider it. Black people conserve based off of socialism. Heard
you was black, Oh, you might have a level of
accessibility to it.
Speaker 6 (23:07):
I heard it was a quality product, right, White.
Speaker 5 (23:09):
People considering off of two things not in personal Is
it high quality product?
Speaker 6 (23:14):
And is it close to me?
Speaker 5 (23:16):
If so, I buy it all day, if I'm in
the one percent and it has a low price, like
a low ticket price like four or five dollars.
Speaker 6 (23:23):
I'll buy it all day. It's not like they buying
a maserati. You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (23:28):
So you gotta realize, like positioning was the number one
thing for me, How could I position my brand to
be most successful, not to be most socially acceptable most successful?
Speaker 6 (23:39):
So you know people saying that Miyo, won't you.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
Go in a black neighborhood, say black neighborhood like what
like Brownsville or like Crown Heights, her bead stop.
Speaker 6 (23:45):
They not black neighborhoods. They white neighborhoods. White boys own
them neighborhoods. Black people live there. We don't own anything there.
We don't own the majority of no neighborhood in New
York City.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
So they not black neighborhoods. It's a lot of black
residents in a concentrated space. Right, So that won't work
for me because if the income levels there are low
and can't.
Speaker 6 (24:05):
Support my product, then how can I be successful?
Speaker 5 (24:08):
So our niche was built around our product and a
price point for our product, which happens to be a
sixty dollars a dozen of donuts. Right, So like in
that space, you would want to go to Soho, try
back to the West Village, you.
Speaker 6 (24:21):
Know, Brooklyn Heights.
Speaker 5 (24:23):
Now, we would probably go to majority black neighborhoods if
we were in like Atlanta, you know what I'm saying.
But people still have to own those properties in those
neighborhoods to meet for them to be considered black neighborhoods.
So us going in Brooklyn Heights was very strategic. It
was about putting black faces in white spaces. When I
was hustling and I was moving around, when I was
living in LA and when I was in New York
(24:43):
or DC, I always was in the affluent neighborhoods and
I rarely saw on myself and I knew that, so
I know it was room for me there.
Speaker 6 (24:50):
You know what I mean. It's how many affluent black people.
Speaker 5 (24:53):
Let me ask you this question, rightf flauing successful black people,
they typically got to spend their money with white folks.
Is successful black people go out to eat? They don't
go to a five star black restaurant. They don't go
shop at, you know, a luxury black department store. They
don't so like it's a lane just specifically for servicing
that level of black people and that's what I'm here for.
Speaker 6 (25:14):
I'm here for them as well.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
I think that how do you determine how much of
yourself you can bring to you know when if you're
building these in predominantly non black neighborhoods and as black
as black people, it's not always easy to just be
ourselves in these neighborhoods and can and continue to have
them want to do business with us. How do you
think about that? How did you bring the culture to
(25:38):
your shops.
Speaker 6 (25:39):
If you want? But black people see, I'm gonna be
honest with you, and I'm not speaking in general.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
I'm speaking on a lot of black people, right, A
lot of black people afraid of white folks.
Speaker 6 (25:49):
They scared because you got to think about the inductionated mindset. Right.
Speaker 5 (25:53):
The majority of black people, progressive black people right out
every day have a job, right, So they got a job.
The majority of them got degrees, and they work for
white folks. So like, black people have a tendency to, like,
you know, kind of whisper when white people come around.
If they talking about white folks, but white folks really
don't respect, then I rather know you don't like me,
I rather know you get a I just rather know. Right,
(26:14):
So y'all realize, like Bro always tell people, I'm not
gonna be the most successful or gonna be the most popular,
but I'm the most fearless. So the fear comes from
not ownership, and the fear comes from being lazy and
not doing the work. Like for example, right, think about
life as a fight that you prepare for. Once you
prepared nine times out of ten, you not fearful. Think
(26:35):
about a fight and you get in a ring and
you don't own yourself. Someone else manages you, and it's
another company promoting a fight.
Speaker 6 (26:42):
You gotta now playcate them and appeal to what they think.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
Are you.
Speaker 6 (26:46):
I never built a format where I had to appeal
to nobody. So you gotta realize, like this, My whole
shit was this. I've rather had something small that I own.
There's something big that I don't own, because once I
got something smaller than I own, I can really beat myself.
See I realizing today's society.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
Right, I'm gonna tell you the number one thing in
today's society, in a world where a lot of young
black people are trying to figure out who they are,
the number one thing you can figure out.
Speaker 6 (27:10):
Is who you're not. You need to know that, you
need to know who you're not. And a lot of
people waking up.
Speaker 5 (27:15):
Every day not able to beat themselves, a lot of
people waking up every day having to make themselves small.
And that's from a lack of ownership, a lack of
entrepreneurship and a lack of ownership more specifically.
Speaker 6 (27:26):
So I wasn't really interested in that, Like to be
honest with you. I like to go to the neighborhoods
and be myself and to be honest with you.
Speaker 5 (27:33):
They respect that more cause it's like, Yo, they already
I got thirty black people that work for me who
don't act nothing like you.
Speaker 6 (27:41):
I'm like, yeah, they did.
Speaker 5 (27:42):
When they get off of work. They scared, they scared,
and like you don't know how many times I've been
on platforms with successful people.
Speaker 6 (27:50):
Right black black men and women who are like.
Speaker 5 (27:52):
Yo, I wanted to say the same shit you said,
but I feel you, brother, I can't say it well
at that point, Like what's the purpose of living for me?
Speaker 6 (28:00):
For me? You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (28:02):
I'd rather make twenty dollars I had my opinion, than
to make ten thousand dollars.
Speaker 6 (28:05):
I had to care of who I am, you know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
So if you were to Google your shop or to
go on social media and Instagram and TikTok whatever, it's
a lot of social media from people, not even just
from you guys, people being at your shop or having
your product. How have you leveraged social media intentionally to
generate that much attention?
Speaker 6 (28:25):
Yeah, so I don't control the social media. My partners
o duf and she controlled the social media. It's crazy
because like she put a lot of work in the
social media.
Speaker 5 (28:34):
So she built this up from like we started with
like seven eight thousand followers when she came on to
fifty thousand.
Speaker 6 (28:40):
Fours and it's you know, a lot of the posts
that she's put up that's gone viral or had a
lot of traction and things like that.
Speaker 5 (28:47):
And you know, just two days ago, somebody hacked up
pig So we lost a lot of those followers on
the Cloudy underscore with donuts, but we now on Cloudy
dot co, which, like she said, you don't make more
sense obviously, But yeah, dude, hack Page called me talking
about you know, I got your page, Hack, how much
you're gonna pay me?
Speaker 6 (29:05):
Like I'm not paying you. I build it again. I
got the recipe. It's me.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
You know what I'm saying. I understand like this, Man,
when you got a recipe for success, you could get
it back. I can make the mumbo sauce, spill it
on the floor and make it again, you know what
I'm saying. So in terms of social media, how she's leveraged,
and she's definitely got a lot of very important and
profound people in the culture into the shop.
Speaker 6 (29:29):
We've got a lot of great feedback.
Speaker 5 (29:30):
When it comes to the quality of product because I
focus on the quality of the product, and she focused
on the interface and.
Speaker 6 (29:36):
The floor of the shot. She controlled all that. But man,
I just be trying. Man he Yo, listen, I try
to give them the best shit we could give them
in the world. Like, Yo, all to realize, I'm coming
from a place where I'm my authentic self.
Speaker 5 (29:51):
I'm in a rich white neighborhood. You know what I'm saying.
I gotta pass that could google me. So, like, what
gives me the leverage the quality product?
Speaker 6 (29:59):
See black woman, understand that. Yo.
Speaker 5 (30:01):
Once we start landing in the quality products the world
to a certain degree, the sea pots for you.
Speaker 6 (30:07):
Because they about these white boys. Right, Like these white
boys when they create companies and products, right.
Speaker 5 (30:11):
They able to get away with murder, They do all
kind of shit because they got power and influence and
they own. Like you think, let me ask you a
question right now, do you think that the world is
positioned for Jeff Bezos or Elon must to just go
to jail and it's just over all that shit they're
responsible for. If they get pulled over or do some
wildsh man, they gonna get a slap on the rest,
(30:34):
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 6 (30:35):
Just keeping it a.
Speaker 5 (30:35):
Buck, right, you know what's going on? So like you know,
all these white boys when they own companies, but we
don't have that space. But I'm gonna tell you why
we don't got the space because we don't own. See,
we complain about them, Listen, we complain what we're gonna do,
what the fuck we're supposed to do. If you bootstrap
yourself and you own something and you put you on
(30:56):
your people on, you can control your narrative and you
have a much bigger voice in your community, black or white.
Speaker 6 (31:02):
You gotta realize one thing about Cloudy, Yeah, the number
one thing about Cloudy donuts.
Speaker 5 (31:06):
Brooklyn Heights is them white folks in Brooklyn. I'm glad
that they love us and they support us, but they
got to deal with me. Whether they love us to
hate us, you got to deal with my black ass. Well,
I'm going to own this shit. What you're gonna do,
I'm putting you on your hair. See once I own something,
I'm putting you on your heels.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
So let's talk about the multi You got multiple locations. Now,
how did you build that capacity to be able to
because when you specifically food service, when you're doing food service,
it can be very hands on if you didn't build
it correctly. How do you How did you build an
operation that allows you to not be be super closed
but to be able to do it from a distance.
Speaker 6 (31:47):
Now I'm head of closed.
Speaker 5 (31:48):
I made the donuts this morning, like I'm closed, like
because yo, listen, that's another thing I want to talk
about to you, like because people will see me and
get to thinking like, oh, you know I can have
five stores and be hands out.
Speaker 6 (32:00):
I work every day. I work, Yeah, I work. I'm
gonna make it cool. I ain't even gonna try to
play it up.
Speaker 5 (32:05):
I got the role lections and I'm on the y'all,
I ain't nothing, ain't doing none of that shit.
Speaker 6 (32:09):
I'm in there watching the donuts. I'm at the brunch,
watching the brunch.
Speaker 5 (32:13):
Like we we misconstraed, Like I gave away everything to
get what I got.
Speaker 6 (32:20):
So always, you know, Ray Dollio said best, you can
have anything in this world you want, but you can
have everything.
Speaker 5 (32:24):
So I don't go on vakition. I don't got you know,
all the extra trapmans. I'm not caughtciled with the celebrities
and shit like that. Like I'm sitting in the spot
watching them make the donuts. That's how I scale, see, Like,
that's why I say, and that we live in a
society where ainybody in a race to do nothing. And
I always tell people, look a person that's sitting next
to you for two days and think they can big you.
(32:45):
They see you and think they can big you. That's
the problem with young people. So that I put you
got put a headset on for three days. He's like,
oh yeah, I don't need will no more and forget
the twenty years of work that you put in to
get where you at.
Speaker 6 (32:58):
Right, you see what I'm saying, So like for me
to scale those locations.
Speaker 5 (33:02):
It really came from a place to like desperation. It
ain't come from a happy place. Well, it came from like, man, listen,
if I don't scale this, my father a dope thing,
I can't go back to prison.
Speaker 6 (33:17):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (33:18):
It came from like yo, Like when I be building
the stores, I don't be having a bunch of money.
I be having a bunch of heart knowing I'm gonna
figure it out. Yeah, y'all, don't be having or I'm
not sitting up here caked up and jeweled up like
I'm in this mouth father, Like, all right, it's two
hundred thousand for this store, but it's fifty for me
to get in.
Speaker 6 (33:37):
Let's just focus on the fitty I get in. All right, It's.
Speaker 5 (33:41):
Fifty for me to build it out, then another fifty
and fifty and then I'm gonna just keep going. I'm
gonna just keep digging into the shit down like some
of the stores taking me two years to build out
because I'm building it.
Speaker 6 (33:51):
With my own money. Like I ain't it ain't it
ain't sweet over here. It's a dog fight over here. Yeah,
this ain't sweet. So you know, people tend to see
the end up, but down see the process.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
So I scaled my shit out off of like, man,
I got this one store, but I know that's not enough.
I'm gonna live in a studio apartment. I'm a driver
Mini Cooper. Yeah, I don't watch TV. I don't drink,
don't smoke, don't hang out. So it sound good till
they get on that run with me and they fall off.
It's a real marath thumb, you know what I'm saying,
(34:22):
and and and and and To be honest, I wouldn't
suggest people take my path. I took a real, drastic,
real one percent type of role bro Like, I ain't
gonna sele up in line be like yeah, y'all could
be just like me.
Speaker 6 (34:35):
Man, my mouth animal man.
Speaker 5 (34:37):
The majority of people ain't even gonna make the sacrifices
I'm gonna make, just being honest. Right, So at this point,
if your goal was not to be me, your goal
is to become inspired by.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
Me to be you.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Yeah, I did that. I like that line.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
You know there's a quote I read that you did
another interview where you said, you know you're the first
specticlarly to your location in Brooklyn Heights. You're the first,
and you're the only black owned shop there, But you
don't want.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
To be the last.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
I mean, can you talk about what you've done and
what you're passionate about doing to make sure that other
black entrepreneurs can thrive in locations that are not predominantly
black people.
Speaker 6 (35:18):
Oh man, listen to me, you thrive. To be honest
with you, You're gonna thrive more because listen to me,
black people are gonna come at you wherever you at.
Speaker 5 (35:28):
Yo, I'll not forget Listen. All my locations in white neighborhoods,
they just talk about it. Because I'm in Brooklyn now right.
I remember my toy, the lady like, YO, when I
opened up in Baltimore, right, opened up in Federal Hill
and they was like, and I was like, Yo, I
don't know where all the black people come from. Every
time I open. She said that it don't matter if
you open in Alaska. If you black and some shit good,
(35:51):
they're going to come. But if but white folks not
gonna come, They not gonna.
Speaker 6 (35:56):
Come to Brownsville to get the doughnuts.
Speaker 5 (35:58):
So, YO, you can it's a but when because if
if you're black, you're needed in white neighborhoods.
Speaker 6 (36:04):
They want the culture that anyway, you know what it is.
Speaker 5 (36:09):
They're still the coaching the Oh it's a line like
what are we capinall they that's what they do. They
appropriate right, all right, it's cool. So create a medium
of commerce in the middle of it. Like you're crazy,
you think you think if I go to Trobeca right now,
that blacks ain't gonna be outside, They're.
Speaker 6 (36:26):
Gonna be outside looking for me and waiting on me. Man.
Speaker 5 (36:31):
So more black people definitely need to get We need
more black faces and white spaces. I mean I think that,
Like even in what I did in Baltimore, it ignited
a whole movement where two or three other restaurateurs came
behind me and got restaurants downtown in the in the
city there. And then a buddy of mine, Qui from
the Good Parting Company, he did a juice baw in
John Hopkins. He and John Hopkins University predominately adfluent white university.
(36:56):
So these things are happening, like Giraws the younger the
burgers spot he is, so well, it's a black man.
Like you know what I'm saying, It's just that I'm
gonna tell you what be the difference. I'll be going
to the spot and I'm a little ghetto. Yeah, so
it's like, you know, they be thinking, like, man, he
really really, really, you know what I mean, part of
the culture. So it's like and that's what really helped
(37:18):
helped me stand out because I'm able to bring all
that culture with me.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
In that same interview, I believe you talked about systems
and education that you wanted to build, that you were
building for other black entrepreneurs to be able to find
success and thrive. Particularly when you're doing multiple locations. It's
important to have those systems like these, you know, standard
operating procedures. What key things have you learned that allows
(37:44):
your business to thrive when you're not there that other
people can implement in their businesses.
Speaker 5 (37:51):
You got to get out of your emotions. This system
will allow you to prevail. Invest your money and systems.
Speaker 6 (37:57):
They won't let you down.
Speaker 5 (37:58):
People will let you down all the time, mother, brother, sister, father,
They gonna let you down.
Speaker 6 (38:02):
They failible, they people, they made mistakes.
Speaker 5 (38:05):
The system is the most consistent thing that will allow
your brand to perpetuate. Don't get emotional about your business.
People tend to say, well, I want to get my business,
and my son or my daughter, they don't even want
to run your business.
Speaker 6 (38:15):
Well, you know, I want to.
Speaker 5 (38:16):
Give it to my sister because why Well, because that
is my sister. Yeah, your shit gonna be closed next year.
Black people have to understand that for us to grow
our businesses, we have to withdraw all emotion. Your business
is best being passed down to the person that can
further the business, not maintain it, and not let it
go down the person that can further the business. There's
no one in my immediate family that could perpetuate my
(38:38):
business further than I have, so therefore I wouldn't give
it to them. But what I would do is I
would give it to someone who could perpetuate it and
create a trust where they can benefit from. So we
gotta get out of our own way. So when it
comes to systems and processes, specifically even in the day,
your day to day in a way in which you
live your life, you know, getting up on time, going
(38:59):
to work early, stand late, not really watching the clock,
being able to make sure that you got you know,
a level of balancing in life, but not extreme balance.
Because we live in a self care phase where people
just feel like down gotta do shit. And then that's
why you know they live in small studios or efficiencies
with roommates because you feel like you ain't gotta do shit.
In order for us to get well, we gotta go.
(39:20):
I'm chogging to black people. In order for us to
get well, we gotta go.
Speaker 6 (39:24):
You're going to have to work extremely hard and extremely smart.
Speaker 5 (39:29):
And then after you work hard and smart, you're gonna
have to attract people who work really hard and really smart.
Speaker 6 (39:34):
It's no ducking it. It's no only fans in it.
Speaker 5 (39:37):
It's no overnight Instagram app, and and then no, these
these white boys created these apps. I told Zode the
other day, listen when they took the fifty thousand followers
from us, how you feel because I'm still me, you
know what I'm saying. So I'm still a hustler. So
that shit really don't matter. Don't get tied up in
none of that. Put your money into yourself, put your
(39:57):
money into your people, like for example, right now, then
that stage for me is I'm on the ground bootstrap
VC money.
Speaker 6 (40:04):
Like at the build out the doughnut shops, and I
do what I gotta do. I'm real estate development. And
I'm looking. I'm looking for young black entrepreneurs who got
some shit, and I'm.
Speaker 5 (40:12):
Trying to give you a back. So like, it's a
lot of people that's not gonna have systems in processes.
So what you're gonna count them out? But they got
a high quality product or service.
Speaker 6 (40:20):
Put the system in process around them and get this
some money. You know what I mean? We leaving a
lot of money on the table. Man, we're putting all
this money.
Speaker 5 (40:27):
Into crypto NFTs. We don't know shit about these people
or what they got going on. You don't personally know
this man, Like you don't know Bill Gates personally.
Speaker 6 (40:35):
You don't even know if he liked black people. But
you keep bragging everybody you got twenty shares of Microsoft.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
What are some of those critical mistakes often made, particularly
black owned shops retail, you know, just shops particularly not
CpG anything like that, but critical mistakes often made where
we end up owning a job versus owning a business.
Speaker 6 (40:59):
Okay, I say two things.
Speaker 5 (41:01):
Typically coming to plan, we put the product before the process,
so like and the focus. Yeah yeah, so we put
the product over the process. So a person on attend
to come at me and be like, y'all make a
crazy cookie. The cookie I make everybody love it. My
mother love it, my sister love it. I got twenty
thousand followers, and I say, well, how much the cookie
cost to me?
Speaker 3 (41:22):
Uh?
Speaker 6 (41:24):
I don't know? Like all right, how long do it
take you to bake two thousand cookies? If you get
an order? I don't really know, Like you know, I
normally just do it for my homegirls. And now you're
in that space, right.
Speaker 5 (41:37):
I've run into so many private chefs who you get
on Instagram. They got a hundred thousand followers, and they
don't know. They don't got no process. They just sit
in the house and create. Right, So, like, I think
about it like this, because a buddy of mine told
me said, think about the artist. Right after the artists
paint the Picasso, and the businessman walk up to him
and say, well how much did that cost? He typically
don't know. And that's why our Picasso live a life
(41:59):
of solvency and warn Buffett live a life of influence.
And then now, how can we marry these two parties?
Speaker 4 (42:06):
Right?
Speaker 5 (42:06):
How can the black businessman or the capitalists be able
to see that young guy who's a party promoter or
who's an artist or who's like a like a like
a big graffiti artist in New York and say, yo,
we can monetize this. We can add a level of
commerce to this while also keeping it authentic and.
Speaker 6 (42:21):
Keeping it culturally and riching.
Speaker 5 (42:23):
You feel what I'm saying. So like, that's the that's
the first thing they do. They put process over product.
They put product over process. The second thing they do
is they allow two very important emotions to get in
that way, fearing ego, the fear of if I team
up with you, what is it gonna do to me?
Or the ego of I can't team up with you
(42:43):
because I'm better than you, And you don't win with
neither one of those joints.
Speaker 6 (42:47):
But neither one of those situations you always lose, right.
Speaker 5 (42:50):
So like for me, I run into it all day
with with with black entrepreneurs where it's like we'll reach
out to somebody right and we'll be like, yo, we
notice you make really good cupcakes. We don't make up kicks,
And then it's like they'll leave you on scene right.
Then they circle back after you get hot, and you'll
be like, yeah, reached.
Speaker 6 (43:08):
Out to you two years ago.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (43:10):
I wasn't really that, but you broke. You made your
minor things hit.
Speaker 5 (43:16):
Yeah, like like like black people focus on all the
wrong shit. Like I'm like, listen, I'm like, DM a
kid me me. I don't got no popular Instagram four
hundred five.
Speaker 6 (43:25):
I might DM a kid. He got fifty thousand followers,
he's selling wings, right, he leave me on scene. Oh,
I think about it. I'm gonna see then next year
double back with men. You find out like, so, how
much money you made?
Speaker 5 (43:36):
Oh I don't really like a thousand a week? Come on,
stop playing man, I don't know. Like think about it, Like,
think about large groups of black men. That's powerful, owner
shit together.
Speaker 6 (43:46):
That's ego.
Speaker 5 (43:48):
Think about small black guys who want to come up,
that's fair. Like yo, fear ego getting away. So I
always say, you know, put process over a product, eliminate
your fears and your egos. You're gonna get everywhere you
gotta go. Once you get over the good look, you
get some good money. Then it's the three e's education.
Speaker 6 (44:03):
Experience, and exposure.
Speaker 5 (44:05):
Those things gonna leave black people to be the fourth E,
which is an entrepreneur. And then when it comes to your.
Speaker 6 (44:10):
Legacy is the three p's. You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (44:13):
Preservation and protection can lead to perpetuation. It can put
you in a space where you can grow something. You
have to preserve or protect what it is that you
have so that you can perpetuate it in further and
anytime it gets hard, you got the three essas, saving
plus sacrifice equal scaling.
Speaker 6 (44:26):
It will definitely put you where you need to be.
Speaker 5 (44:28):
Don't worry about borrowing no money, worry about saving somebody
the minute that you borrow your slave to it.
Speaker 6 (44:35):
I didn't. I didn't borrow, I didn't borrow, I.
Speaker 5 (44:37):
Didn't took out hard money loans to get real estate,
all that type of I'm glad I'm getting out by
of those situations, and I got up by the most
of them.
Speaker 6 (44:44):
Like nah, so like focus on like yo. The biggest
thing for Black people.
Speaker 5 (44:48):
To be successful, right and anything they do is all
instilled in principles, not practices.
Speaker 6 (44:55):
A practice is what you sell. A principle is what
you live by. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (45:01):
It's gonna take some long standing principles like integrity, all work,
leadership skills, how not to quit, how to have some grit,
stop looking on the internet for the answers. Looking yourself
the internal work that's gonna push you to the next level.
Speaker 6 (45:17):
That's the answer man.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity Afro
Tech on the Black Effect podcast Networking Night Heart Media.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
It's produced by Morgan Debond and me.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
Well Lucas, with the addition of production support by Kate
McDonald and Jason McGee. Special thank you to Michael Davis
and Sarah Rogan.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
Learn more about my guess.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
The other tech distructor is Innovator's at afrotech dot Com.
Video version of this episode will drop to Black Tech
Green Money on YouTube, so tap in join your Black
Tech Green Money.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
This was the five start rating on Night two. I'll
get your money to Peace and Love
Speaker 5 (46:08):
M
Afro Tech Conference is back, bringing together over twenty thousand
tech enthusiasts, founders, investors, and more for another unforgettable year.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
For years, afro Tech.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Has been the go to event for black innovators in
tech with the brightest mind share, the latest developments and insights,
and this year we're bringing the experience to Houston, Texas.
From November thirteenth through the sixteenth. Join us to learn
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the latest and AI and data, this year's programming explores
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Don't miss your chance to be part of it.
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Secure your spot of afro Tech Conference twenty twenty four
today visit afrotech Conference dot com to buy your ticket now.
I'm Will Lucas and this is Black Tech Care Money.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
You.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Donna's Haslam is a three time NBA Champion, Miami Heat Legend,
and NBA TV analysts. He's now teaming up with Wells
Fargo and the Rebuilding Together organization to make a lasting
impact in the community by providing critical home repairs and
safety modifications for families in need. The Donas is a businessman,
philanth Or bits an advocate for underserved communities, and this
(01:13):
partnership furthers his efforts uplift and inspire the next generation
in his hometown of Miami, Florida. As a businessman, you know,
sometimes often every relationship you get into as a business person,
you've got to vet to make sure that this aligns
with the things that are important to you. So, when
you think about doing things with underserved communities, what speaks
(01:33):
to you with regards to the initiatives you get involved with.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
I think for me, you know, having a connection to
the people in those communities, you know, never separating myself,
never walking around with security where people feel like they
can't approach me. I'm always in the communities, I'm always
in the hood, I'm always in the cities, and I
continue to listen to the people. You know, if you
want to walk up to me and have a conversation
with me, I'm all ears. I'm welcoming people with open arms,
(01:57):
you know. So I feel like that's always been The
best way to being able to impact your communities is
really listen directly to what the people are saying they
need and what they're dealing with. Oftentimes, the media can
pick and choose what they want to bring to us,
you know, the news can pick and choose what they
want to tell you about. But if you go in
these communities and you spend time with these people and
you just are there, you know, you'll get the just
(02:19):
of it, and you'll get the real and you'll understand
really what they're dealing with every day. You know, that
was the reason why you know, the dun Tasm Foundation
immediately got into, you know, the housing situation where we
were understanding the huge gap of okay, you need about
one hundred and ten thousand to live comfortably in South Slida,
but on average people only making sixty to seventy Okay,
that's about a forty fifty thousand dollars gap.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
Where how can people live comfortably?
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Now we're talking about getting into the fight and we
have to affordable housing projects. Now you look around and
you see well as far ago the Bank of Doing
and you understand, you know, what their initiative is, what
their goals are and then you say, okay, well maybe
we can collaborate. You know, maybe we can do this together.
You know, one thing I know about, you know, building
a championship team and a championship roster, is it takes
a collaboration of people with the same like mindset and
(03:03):
with the same goals. I think Wells Fargo had that goal,
The don Tasm Foundation had that goal. Wells Fargo, the
bank of doing your Donatasm has been a doer his
whole life, his whole career. Has never been scared to
get his hands dirty. They've never been scared to get
out there and get in the mud. And when I
wake up this morning and when I put up to
Miss Mabelhouse, I see people who are usually sitting in
the office behind the air conditioned working at tailors, and
(03:26):
now they're there. They're they're playing crop, they're lifting you know, microwaves,
they're lifting ovens, they're lifting stoves, they're putting grills outside,
and I know everybody's saying, okay, it's about one the
time we barbecue on Christmas down here Miami. We can
put a grill out anytime. That's one of the places
we can do this anywhere. So we talk about that man.
It was just you know, it was just a matchmate
(03:48):
of heaven. I was thankful to be the person that
you know wells Fargo reached out to and chose to
be a part of this because you know, it's everything
I represent. You know, I've made sure that throughout my
twenty year career. Although I've represented the meat, I've also
represented the community and the people of Miami.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So when you think about the myriad of opportunities you
could have done, like you could you could put your
name on a lot of you know, social issues, social
you know efforts. Why was housing so important to you?
Why what's what spoke to you about the housing initiative?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Because it's not what I need, it's what the people need,
you know, And I think that's what people need. I think,
you know, there's so many different situations that people are
being challenged with the underserved communities. But when you go
in your house, we understand what's going on outside your house.
But when you go in your house, you should feel safe.
You should feel comfortable, you should be happy, you should
be confident in that space, you should be fulfilled. That
(04:44):
should be a mental recharge place, and that's where you
can go and just be proud of everything and all
the work that you put into every single day. And
a lot of times it's hard to feel like that
when you don't see those results. It's hard to feel
like that when you walk into your home and you
don't feel safe. It's hard to feel like that when
you walk into you know, your yard and your gates
torn down. It's hard to feel like that when you
walk in your backyard and you know it's grass and
(05:06):
stuff everywhere, and you don't have a grid of barbecue,
or you don't have a garden where you can just
walk out there and on a sunny day and just
sit out by your guard and read the paper.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
You don't have those things.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
I think if you can have those things and you
can implement those things and everyday life, everyday life gets
a little better for you.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Everyday things get a little easier for you.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
And now you're talking about having a little bit of a
situation where you can be comfortable and you can be
proud of the place you call home. You just want
these people to be proud of the place they call home.
You want these people safe in the place they call home.
You want these people to be comfortable in these places
they call home, and I think everybody deserves that when you.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Think about I mean so actually, right now, the top
story on afrotech dot com is a story about you.
So it's talking about how you stayed on the Miami Heat,
you know, based on your efforts as a leader and
even Lebron and Chris Bosh and Dwayne you know, making
the room and so making sure that somebody with your
leadership and experience was still in the locker room. And
(06:02):
it's a quote I found from you where you said,
when you look at all these undrafted guys, these guys
who were on their way out of the league, and
people didn't believe in them, and people didn't give them
the opportunity, the Heat culture saved them. That's why I
came back, because I watched the culture save so many
like it saved me. When you think about that Heat culture,
(06:23):
you see undrafted players, people who were overlooked, and sometimes
they don't always take these opportunities. Seriously, what is it
you saw, as somebody who was on the tail end
of his career as your ability to galvanize those folks
behind a culture and a mission to be able to
go out there and create championship opportunities.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
I mean, I got to get credit to those guys.
You know, when those guys walk in that locker room
and you can see the sense of desperation.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
I relate.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
I relate to walking in the locker room of fifty
people and they only keeping one guy, and you got
to be that one guy that they keep. I can relate.
I can relate to not having a backup plan. I
can relate to, you know, having your back against the wall,
you know, and coming in every day, you know, feeling
like your life is on the line and like your
career depends on it. So I'm relatable to all these guys,
just like I'm relatable to Miss Maple. You know, Miss
(07:10):
Mabel was on one fifty third and my auntie stay
on one to eighty third.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
You know what I'm saying, which is thirty streets over.
You know what I mean. I literally showed up to.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Miss Mable's house about forty minutes early, and I went
around the corner and stayed at my auntie's house and
came back in Miss Maple's house.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
So I'm relatable to these people, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
I'm really relatable and I know that I've been blessed
to play the game of basketball. I had a tremendous
amount of success, but I'm really relatable to these people.
And you know, when I talk about you know, Lebron
James and Dwayne Wade, and you know.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Being a part of that process.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
That's one thing I was able to understand is that
even though we were friends, you know, you respect people
for who they are and what they are, you know
what I mean. And you know, Lebron, Dwayne, they already
respected me for who I was and what I was.
They were Southeast guys. I was a Miami guy, you
know what I mean. They were on the other side
of the bridge, was on my side of the bridge,
you know what I mean. So for me, I never
(08:03):
tried to be something I wasn't. I always stayed in
my lane, and my lane always brought me back to
the people, you know what I mean. And when you
talk about why you don't leave to go for more money,
and why you don't even have the opportunity to play
somewhere else, and when your career was getting towards the ending,
you weren't getting as much planning time as you might
have wanted, it's because of the people of Miami. Man,
I've never got in love. I've never been more protected.
(08:24):
I've never been more accepted than I am in this
city of Miami by these people. When you talk about
twenty years in the NBA and so much sus sens,
I ain't never have no security. You ain't never seen
me get robbed nowhere. You never see me get in
no trouble nowhere out here. You know, these people take
care of me.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
Man.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
So it's my job, it's my duty with my free time,
to commit to taking care of these people and giving
back to them so much that they've.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Given to me.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah, I want to talk more about that.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
You know, you are today vice president of basketball Development
at Miami and so you got a lot of leadership
in your background on court and off the court, and
I want to talk.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
About the off the court leadership.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
How do you transfer the things that you've learned on
the court to be able to be effective off the court.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Man, I'll tell you one thing about heat culture, and
it's real because it can apply in all expects of life.
The discipline that it takes to be a part of
heat culture to come in and have your body for
under ten percent every year, discipline that it takes to
push yourself to get that extra one percent out of
yourself every day.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
You know, the way we approach the game. You know,
I think.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Everything that I've learned and heat coached has been what
I've applied in the business.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
In the business space.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
I think when you retire from basketball, you don't lose
your ambition, you don't lose your drive.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
You just got to find somewhere else to apply it.
You just got to find somewhere else to put it.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
So being in that one percent of people that are
obsessed with winning, being in that one percent of people
that will do whatever it takes to get the job done,
being in that one percent of people that willing to
sacrifice the things that they need to sacrifice for the
betterment of the team. You know, we talk about enjoying
other people's success with they might need. That's one thing
that's non negotiable. You have to be able to enjoy
other people's success. But how many times do you see
(09:56):
people sit at home and they watch somebody achieve something
They said, that should have been me. Why didn't that
happen for me? That's never been a part of who
I am. That's never been a part of my DNA.
Speaker 6 (10:04):
Man.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
My thing is, if he did that, how can I
figure out how to apply that in my lifestyle? How
can I figure out how to achieve that here in Miami?
For my people, that's been always to go to learn
from the people that are doing it before you, to
learn from the Magic, to learn from Dwayne, to learn
from Shack. You know, having these relationship with these guys,
I'd be a fool just to take basketball stuff from
these guys. I have to take life lessons from these guys.
(10:25):
Ill to take business lessons from these guys. The conversations
that I have now with Shaquille O'Neil Dwayne Wade were
far different than the conversations we had fifteen years ago.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
You know, too many people in our communities lean on
rely on predatory services, check cashing places, payday loans, you know,
places like that, and so you know, which is super problematic.
So how important is it for bangs like Wells Fargo,
lenders like Wells Fargo to be involved in these neighborhoods
(10:57):
and in these communities.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
I mean, it's so important because we understand that financial
literacy kind of skipped over our people. Sometimes you know,
for the most part, you know, financial literacy has not
been taught. And then you talk about teaching people financial literacy,
but people that don't have money or didn't come from money,
you know what I'm saying. So I think for Wells
Fargo being you know, not only you know, hands on
(11:20):
with this and you know, putting the money where their
mouths is and committing one point too, you know, seventy
five different homes, you know, forty six communities, but not
also you're building a relationship. And I think what for
us in our community, it's always been hard for us
to trust people, you know what I'm saying. So when
you come in and you make an impact in the community,
immediately the people of the community started to trust you.
And now they started to listen to you, and now
(11:40):
you start to build that relationship so on and so forth.
So I think it was Fargo coming in and being
a part of this process and taking the lead on
this initiative. I think they started to build a relationship
with the people and I think that people start to
trust well as Fargo. So the messages that was far
go preaching, the people are going to listen now because
of the trust and the relationship that they build with
these people because they're actually doing things community not talking
(12:00):
about it.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, that's super good.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
I wonder you know how you view home ownership and
being able to be in your own place and being
able to excel and have a safe.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Place to live. From your perspective, what does that do
for the neighborhood.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
I mean, I think it does.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
It does wonders for the neighborhoods To pull into a
neighborhood where you look around and you say, hey, that
guy's own that house for twenty years and now his
son owns it, or that guy on it. It gives
a neighborhood substance, It gives neighborhood stability, It gives a
neighborhood pride, you know what I mean. And I think,
you know, homeowner, I'm coming from a situation where, you know,
I can say that my parents didn't own until I
(12:38):
bought a house for them, you know, when I when
I got old enough, you know, to buy a house
for them.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
You know, I grew up in a family where all
we did was we didn't know what it was to own.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
But I think when you get in a situation where
you can own a home now you're talking about something
that you can be proud of and that's going to
be in your family, and you talk about generational wealth.
It might not be considered generation wealth right away. But
where I'm from, if you can get a house in
your family, that's generational wealth because that'll go on with
your family forever. And not a lot of people have
homes in their households and they can say they have
(13:08):
a home that will be in their family forever. So
being the first person to be able to buy a
home in my family that's not going in my family forever,
and that might not be the world's version of generation wealth,
that was generational wealth for my family because.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
We never owned the home.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, can you talk a little bit more about that, Like,
you know, I want to dig into why this is
so important to you, because I think that is the
whole crux of this is, you know, can you talk
about your upbringing a little bit and why being able
to make this difference for you and the generations behind
you matters so much for you?
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Dunce man, I've.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
Seen it all.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
I've seen it all growing up, you know, and that's why,
you know, life is so precious to me. And now
when you experience, you know, so much trauma, when you've
seen so many l's all you want to do is win,
and all you want to do is help people win.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
You know.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
So for me, I've made it my life mission to win,
no matter what the circumstances, and to help people win.
Just because of the losses that I have had, because
of the trauma that I've had, so many things that
have been out of my control. I made it my
mission and I made it a point to control the
things that I can control, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
So I can control the energy that I put out.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
I can control the effort that I give to this
community and to these people.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
I can control sitting down with the mayors and the commissioners.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
I can control partnering and collaborating with Wells Fargo and
their initiative and being the bank of doing I can
control those things. Because the things I can't control was,
you know, losing my stepmother. The things I can't control
is losing my mother. I can't control losing my father.
You know, all the people that have raised me, all
the people that sacrificed for me, all the people who
I call mom, dad, stepmom or whatever. You know, they're
(14:38):
not here. So those are things that I could not control.
So I've literally learned in my life to control the
things that you can control. Man, And you know, there's
so much else. There's so many things that going to
happen that are going to knock you down. I think
life is about how can you pick I think life
is about how can you get up? How can you
respond to adversity? Because there's going to be adversity, you know,
(15:02):
so I like to get a testament to that. You know,
what you see here to now today, the dnicizing you
see now is someone who just continued to get up
and continue to respond to adversity. And that's why you
see the polished version that you see now.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
For those people who listen to you talk and they
have faced rejection, you know, they've been counted out. What
advice do you have for people who you know their
back is against the wall, but they they have a
vision for their life but don't know how to get there.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Stay in the saddle, you know, Stay in the saddle,
and don't be afraid to look yourself in the mirror
and change things about yourself. You know, the first thing
I did when I wasn't drafted. I had to go
to your was I looked at myself in the mirror.
Instead of pointing the finger at the NBA team that
said they made a mistake, I say, what.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Can I do first?
Speaker 6 (15:44):
Here?
Speaker 3 (15:44):
How can I change here? What can I change here?
How can I hold myself accountabilit accountable? Once again today's society,
accountability is a foreign language. Nobody wants to hear that.
Nobody wants to be held accountable.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
You know.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
They want to hold other people accountable when it's time
for them to be held accountable. Nobody wants to do
that sacrifice. You know, what do you in the sacrifice
to get where you're trying to go. I tell my
kids all this this all the time. You know, whatever
you want to do in life, you're gonna have a sacrifice.
Something's gonna happen. If you don't get to pick and
choose what you want to sacrifice, that's not your choice.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
You never know what you'll have to sacrifice to achieve
your goals or to get to your destination. But I
tell you one thing, It's not always about the destination.
It's about the journey, you know. So for me, It's
always been about the journey. And my journey has been
filled with challenges, peace and valleys. But I've always figured
out a way to come out on top and to
win in the end. I think I've been better for that.
(16:33):
I think I'm more confident now because of that, because
anything that comes my way, I feel like I can win.
I feel like I can win, and that's what I choose.
That's what I teach other people. That's what I preach
to people. Man, you know Miss Mabel, you know the
guys that I coach on my team and the young guys. Man,
whatever situation you're in, if you have the right mindset,
you can come out of it and you can win.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
What does it mean to be doing this in Miami?
Your hometown?
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Oh? What is it?
Speaker 4 (17:00):
That's why I stayed. That's why I stayed.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Man.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
I always played a long game. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
I have so many opportunities to go to so many
different places, but there's no impact. And this is my
gift to myself. You know, I don't need to give
myself much. You know what I'm saying. I'm a doer,
I'm a giarer, I'm a protector, I'm a provider. My
gift to myself is to be able to do this
here in this city, with these people, for these people.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
That's my.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Quick look back to my conversation with Derek Falcon Cloudy Donuts.
We've had this conversation about having a passion, growing up
with a passion to do a certain type of business, versus,
you know, finding an opportunity and just taking advantage of
the opportunity. And so often many people in our community
don't have the opportunity to be opportunistic. And when my
(17:51):
Connor house, you see, hey, there's money over there. Let
me put together this business. You know, I may not love,
you know, donuts, or I may not love gas stations,
or I may not love launchry masks, but there's an
opportunity there. So let's take advantage of that. We're told
all too often, in my opinion, find what you're passionate about,
find what you love when you could do that too,
but just find an opportunity to make some money. And
(18:13):
I wonder, because I don't imagine that you grew up
being passionate about donuts and wanting to own a donut shop,
you know, since you were a youngster. But can you
talk more about how we can realize success for ourselves
just in finding an opportunity in the marketplace.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
Yeah, so black people need to snap the fuck out
of it. That's the number one thing that we need
to do.
Speaker 6 (18:34):
Right.
Speaker 5 (18:35):
So, for white folks it's twenty twenty three. For black
folks it's nineteen twenty three. I'm sure the headphones that
were jogging on the computer that I'm looking at you
and was all created by white man. You got up
to dead, you picked up the white man's phone, and
you drove in a white man's cause, specifically maybe to the.
Speaker 6 (18:49):
White man's building.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Right.
Speaker 5 (18:51):
So, like, well, we got to understand a lot of
our black business is a very mom and poplight. So
the only way that we can boot up bootstrap ourselves
is through the three essays. So like me, I always
say saving plus sacrifice equal scaling. We need to learn
how to save some money as black people. Once you
learn how to save a dollar, you can put some
money away and you can build some things.
Speaker 6 (19:09):
Right. Another thing is we can't major in minor things.
Speaker 5 (19:12):
So many people caught up on having their name on
the front of the business that they missed the whole
play that the business is the purpose of the business
and what the value really is of having a business,
You see what I'm saying. So like when we speak
on the culture and being able to take advantage of
certain situations and not necessarily getting caught up what we're
passionate about, but doing something that's going to bring a
dollar in. Right, to me, that's the utmost important thing,
(19:35):
because in order for the world to be progressive and
move forward, you need creativity, right, But in order for
things to be creative, you need financial or you need economics, right.
Speaker 6 (19:46):
And I think like when I.
Speaker 5 (19:47):
Deal specifically with a lot of black creatives, they very
lofty and up in the air as to you know,
their product or the service that they provide the world with,
and then there's a sense of entitlement with that where
they're not really trying to put no real work in.
Speaker 6 (19:58):
Then I meet a lot of guys who want.
Speaker 5 (19:59):
Them to put a lot work in, but they don't
understand value, so they don't get for the work that
they put in.
Speaker 6 (20:05):
So I think, like, now, like you said, like.
Speaker 5 (20:08):
I'm not a donut conor Sue, I'm not a pastry
schef or a bigger I'm black, and I want to
own some you gotta like, if you black, the first
thing you need to do is own I'd rather own
a small house than run a big penthouse. And I think,
like we need to understand, like our wealth strategy and
these white folks wealth strategy is totally different.
Speaker 6 (20:27):
Our wealth strategy is.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
Gonna have to come from starting a small business that's
gonna be supported by black people, building a robust top
line for that business so that way you got disposable income,
which means that you can hire more black people. And
then taking that disposable income and figuring out how to
invest actively, because that's another thing I was talking to
the brother yesterday and the conversation where was you know,
the majority of the young people in the rush to
(20:49):
do nothing. Everybody wants to sit on the ass. You know,
you watch Instagram and you hear about passive income on
NFTs and crypto, and now you run into that that
ain't even your passion. You need to sit down, figure
out what it is that you like to do, put
some money behind that, because you can control your destiny.
The fastest way to become successful in this world is
to invest in yourself. We brag on the internet about
(21:10):
owning stocks in these white boy's companies, and that ain't
gonna get you nowhere because all you basically did was
give him money to further his business, and he gives
you a dividend.
Speaker 6 (21:19):
It's over with them. Days are over.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
So now it's time for you to invest in yourself,
invest in your team, invest in your man, your friend.
Don't buy the Nike stock. Your homeboy got a T
shirt line, give him a thousand dollars. Push that because
you can control the narrative. Don't buy the Apple stock.
Invest in black technology. It's just time, Like black people
need to.
Speaker 6 (21:40):
Snap out of it.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
You know when we pick these phones up every day,
we see yachts, and we see and we see hotels
across the world's in vacation. We don't own none of
that shit. So you go on this exotic vacation in
Monica and come right back to the apartment, you staying
with your brother, your sister, Like, we got to snap
out of it.
Speaker 6 (21:56):
So the number one thing I knew was like, YO,
life real.
Speaker 5 (21:59):
And if I I can't control my narrative, if I
can't control my narrative.
Speaker 6 (22:04):
I'm caught up in the next man situation. And I
can't have that.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Brooklyn Heights is seventy two percent white, one of the
most affluent neighborhoods in New York City. But Derek has
thrived with multiple locations, always situated in predominantly white environments.
And it's aiming to bring visibility, diversity and awareness of
these scenes with quality black owned products. And they pull up,
how does.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
He do it? Derek speaks, so on it.
Speaker 6 (22:40):
I'm gonna break it down.
Speaker 5 (22:40):
So you will black people have less than one percent
of the wealth in this country.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Agree, that's true. That's true.
Speaker 6 (22:47):
That's true, right, all right? So who got the majority
of the money? White folk got it.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Right, all right? So so.
Speaker 5 (22:54):
And then I got a high quality product, and you know,
white people got the money. And then white people when
they can sue. You gotta think about how white people
consider it. Black people conserve based off of socialism. Heard
you was black, Oh, you might have a level of
accessibility to it.
Speaker 6 (23:07):
I heard it was a quality product, right, White.
Speaker 5 (23:09):
People considering off of two things not in personal Is
it high quality product?
Speaker 6 (23:14):
And is it close to me?
Speaker 5 (23:16):
If so, I buy it all day, if I'm in
the one percent and it has a low price, like
a low ticket price like four or five dollars.
Speaker 6 (23:23):
I'll buy it all day. It's not like they buying
a maserati. You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (23:28):
So you gotta realize, like positioning was the number one
thing for me, How could I position my brand to
be most successful, not to be most socially acceptable most successful?
Speaker 6 (23:39):
So you know people saying that Miyo, won't you.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
Go in a black neighborhood, say black neighborhood like what
like Brownsville or like Crown Heights, her bead stop.
Speaker 6 (23:45):
They not black neighborhoods. They white neighborhoods. White boys own
them neighborhoods. Black people live there. We don't own anything there.
We don't own the majority of no neighborhood in New
York City.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
So they not black neighborhoods. It's a lot of black
residents in a concentrated space. Right, So that won't work
for me because if the income levels there are low
and can't.
Speaker 6 (24:05):
Support my product, then how can I be successful?
Speaker 5 (24:08):
So our niche was built around our product and a
price point for our product, which happens to be a
sixty dollars a dozen of donuts. Right, So like in
that space, you would want to go to Soho, try
back to the West Village, you.
Speaker 6 (24:21):
Know, Brooklyn Heights.
Speaker 5 (24:23):
Now, we would probably go to majority black neighborhoods if
we were in like Atlanta, you know what I'm saying.
But people still have to own those properties in those
neighborhoods to meet for them to be considered black neighborhoods.
So us going in Brooklyn Heights was very strategic. It
was about putting black faces in white spaces. When I
was hustling and I was moving around, when I was
living in LA and when I was in New York
(24:43):
or DC, I always was in the affluent neighborhoods and
I rarely saw on myself and I knew that, so
I know it was room for me there.
Speaker 6 (24:50):
You know what I mean. It's how many affluent black people.
Speaker 5 (24:53):
Let me ask you this question, rightf flauing successful black people,
they typically got to spend their money with white folks.
Is successful black people go out to eat? They don't
go to a five star black restaurant. They don't go
shop at, you know, a luxury black department store. They
don't so like it's a lane just specifically for servicing
that level of black people and that's what I'm here for.
Speaker 6 (25:14):
I'm here for them as well.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
I think that how do you determine how much of
yourself you can bring to you know when if you're
building these in predominantly non black neighborhoods and as black
as black people, it's not always easy to just be
ourselves in these neighborhoods and can and continue to have
them want to do business with us. How do you
think about that? How did you bring the culture to
(25:38):
your shops.
Speaker 6 (25:39):
If you want? But black people see, I'm gonna be
honest with you, and I'm not speaking in general.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
I'm speaking on a lot of black people, right, A
lot of black people afraid of white folks.
Speaker 6 (25:49):
They scared because you got to think about the inductionated mindset. Right.
Speaker 5 (25:53):
The majority of black people, progressive black people right out
every day have a job, right, So they got a job.
The majority of them got degrees, and they work for
white folks. So like, black people have a tendency to, like,
you know, kind of whisper when white people come around.
If they talking about white folks, but white folks really
don't respect, then I rather know you don't like me,
I rather know you get a I just rather know. Right,
(26:14):
So y'all realize, like Bro always tell people, I'm not
gonna be the most successful or gonna be the most popular,
but I'm the most fearless. So the fear comes from
not ownership, and the fear comes from being lazy and
not doing the work. Like for example, right, think about
life as a fight that you prepare for. Once you
prepared nine times out of ten, you not fearful. Think
(26:35):
about a fight and you get in a ring and
you don't own yourself. Someone else manages you, and it's
another company promoting a fight.
Speaker 6 (26:42):
You gotta now playcate them and appeal to what they think.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
Are you.
Speaker 6 (26:46):
I never built a format where I had to appeal
to nobody. So you gotta realize, like this, My whole
shit was this. I've rather had something small that I own.
There's something big that I don't own, because once I
got something smaller than I own, I can really beat myself.
See I realizing today's society.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
Right, I'm gonna tell you the number one thing in
today's society, in a world where a lot of young
black people are trying to figure out who they are,
the number one thing you can figure out.
Speaker 6 (27:10):
Is who you're not. You need to know that, you
need to know who you're not. And a lot of
people waking up.
Speaker 5 (27:15):
Every day not able to beat themselves, a lot of
people waking up every day having to make themselves small.
And that's from a lack of ownership, a lack of
entrepreneurship and a lack of ownership more specifically.
Speaker 6 (27:26):
So I wasn't really interested in that, Like to be
honest with you. I like to go to the neighborhoods
and be myself and to be honest with you.
Speaker 5 (27:33):
They respect that more cause it's like, Yo, they already
I got thirty black people that work for me who
don't act nothing like you.
Speaker 6 (27:41):
I'm like, yeah, they did.
Speaker 5 (27:42):
When they get off of work. They scared, they scared,
and like you don't know how many times I've been
on platforms with successful people.
Speaker 6 (27:50):
Right black black men and women who are like.
Speaker 5 (27:52):
Yo, I wanted to say the same shit you said,
but I feel you, brother, I can't say it well
at that point, Like what's the purpose of living for me?
Speaker 6 (28:00):
For me? You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (28:02):
I'd rather make twenty dollars I had my opinion, than
to make ten thousand dollars.
Speaker 6 (28:05):
I had to care of who I am, you know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
So if you were to Google your shop or to
go on social media and Instagram and TikTok whatever, it's
a lot of social media from people, not even just
from you guys, people being at your shop or having
your product. How have you leveraged social media intentionally to
generate that much attention?
Speaker 6 (28:25):
Yeah, so I don't control the social media. My partners
o duf and she controlled the social media. It's crazy
because like she put a lot of work in the
social media.
Speaker 5 (28:34):
So she built this up from like we started with
like seven eight thousand followers when she came on to
fifty thousand.
Speaker 6 (28:40):
Fours and it's you know, a lot of the posts
that she's put up that's gone viral or had a
lot of traction and things like that.
Speaker 5 (28:47):
And you know, just two days ago, somebody hacked up
pig So we lost a lot of those followers on
the Cloudy underscore with donuts, but we now on Cloudy
dot co, which, like she said, you don't make more
sense obviously, But yeah, dude, hack Page called me talking
about you know, I got your page, Hack, how much
you're gonna pay me?
Speaker 6 (29:05):
Like I'm not paying you. I build it again. I
got the recipe. It's me.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
You know what I'm saying. I understand like this, Man,
when you got a recipe for success, you could get
it back. I can make the mumbo sauce, spill it
on the floor and make it again, you know what
I'm saying. So in terms of social media, how she's leveraged,
and she's definitely got a lot of very important and
profound people in the culture into the shop.
Speaker 6 (29:29):
We've got a lot of great feedback.
Speaker 5 (29:30):
When it comes to the quality of product because I
focus on the quality of the product, and she focused
on the interface and.
Speaker 6 (29:36):
The floor of the shot. She controlled all that. But man,
I just be trying. Man he Yo, listen, I try
to give them the best shit we could give them
in the world. Like, Yo, all to realize, I'm coming
from a place where I'm my authentic self.
Speaker 5 (29:51):
I'm in a rich white neighborhood. You know what I'm saying.
I gotta pass that could google me. So, like, what
gives me the leverage the quality product?
Speaker 6 (29:59):
See black woman, understand that. Yo.
Speaker 5 (30:01):
Once we start landing in the quality products the world
to a certain degree, the sea pots for you.
Speaker 6 (30:07):
Because they about these white boys. Right, Like these white
boys when they create companies and products, right.
Speaker 5 (30:11):
They able to get away with murder, They do all
kind of shit because they got power and influence and
they own. Like you think, let me ask you a
question right now, do you think that the world is
positioned for Jeff Bezos or Elon must to just go
to jail and it's just over all that shit they're
responsible for. If they get pulled over or do some
wildsh man, they gonna get a slap on the rest,
(30:34):
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 6 (30:35):
Just keeping it a.
Speaker 5 (30:35):
Buck, right, you know what's going on? So like you know,
all these white boys when they own companies, but we
don't have that space. But I'm gonna tell you why
we don't got the space because we don't own. See,
we complain about them, Listen, we complain what we're gonna do,
what the fuck we're supposed to do. If you bootstrap
yourself and you own something and you put you on
(30:56):
your people on, you can control your narrative and you
have a much bigger voice in your community, black or white.
Speaker 6 (31:02):
You gotta realize one thing about Cloudy, Yeah, the number
one thing about Cloudy donuts.
Speaker 5 (31:06):
Brooklyn Heights is them white folks in Brooklyn. I'm glad
that they love us and they support us, but they
got to deal with me. Whether they love us to
hate us, you got to deal with my black ass. Well,
I'm going to own this shit. What you're gonna do,
I'm putting you on your hair. See once I own something,
I'm putting you on your heels.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
So let's talk about the multi You got multiple locations. Now,
how did you build that capacity to be able to
because when you specifically food service, when you're doing food service,
it can be very hands on if you didn't build
it correctly. How do you How did you build an
operation that allows you to not be be super closed
but to be able to do it from a distance.
Speaker 6 (31:47):
Now I'm head of closed.
Speaker 5 (31:48):
I made the donuts this morning, like I'm closed, like
because yo, listen, that's another thing I want to talk
about to you, like because people will see me and
get to thinking like, oh, you know I can have
five stores and be hands out.
Speaker 6 (32:00):
I work every day. I work, Yeah, I work. I'm
gonna make it cool. I ain't even gonna try to
play it up.
Speaker 5 (32:05):
I got the role lections and I'm on the y'all,
I ain't nothing, ain't doing none of that shit.
Speaker 6 (32:09):
I'm in there watching the donuts. I'm at the brunch,
watching the brunch.
Speaker 5 (32:13):
Like we we misconstraed, Like I gave away everything to
get what I got.
Speaker 6 (32:20):
So always, you know, Ray Dollio said best, you can
have anything in this world you want, but you can
have everything.
Speaker 5 (32:24):
So I don't go on vakition. I don't got you know,
all the extra trapmans. I'm not caughtciled with the celebrities
and shit like that. Like I'm sitting in the spot
watching them make the donuts. That's how I scale, see, Like,
that's why I say, and that we live in a
society where ainybody in a race to do nothing. And
I always tell people, look a person that's sitting next
to you for two days and think they can big you.
(32:45):
They see you and think they can big you. That's
the problem with young people. So that I put you
got put a headset on for three days. He's like,
oh yeah, I don't need will no more and forget
the twenty years of work that you put in to
get where you at.
Speaker 6 (32:58):
Right, you see what I'm saying, So like for me
to scale those locations.
Speaker 5 (33:02):
It really came from a place to like desperation. It
ain't come from a happy place. Well, it came from like, man, listen,
if I don't scale this, my father a dope thing,
I can't go back to prison.
Speaker 6 (33:17):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (33:18):
It came from like yo, Like when I be building
the stores, I don't be having a bunch of money.
I be having a bunch of heart knowing I'm gonna
figure it out. Yeah, y'all, don't be having or I'm
not sitting up here caked up and jeweled up like
I'm in this mouth father, Like, all right, it's two
hundred thousand for this store, but it's fifty for me
to get in.
Speaker 6 (33:37):
Let's just focus on the fitty I get in. All right, It's.
Speaker 5 (33:41):
Fifty for me to build it out, then another fifty
and fifty and then I'm gonna just keep going. I'm
gonna just keep digging into the shit down like some
of the stores taking me two years to build out
because I'm building it.
Speaker 6 (33:51):
With my own money. Like I ain't it ain't it
ain't sweet over here. It's a dog fight over here. Yeah,
this ain't sweet. So you know, people tend to see
the end up, but down see the process.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
So I scaled my shit out off of like, man,
I got this one store, but I know that's not enough.
I'm gonna live in a studio apartment. I'm a driver
Mini Cooper. Yeah, I don't watch TV. I don't drink,
don't smoke, don't hang out. So it sound good till
they get on that run with me and they fall off.
It's a real marath thumb, you know what I'm saying,
(34:22):
and and and and and To be honest, I wouldn't
suggest people take my path. I took a real, drastic,
real one percent type of role bro Like, I ain't
gonna sele up in line be like yeah, y'all could
be just like me.
Speaker 6 (34:35):
Man, my mouth animal man.
Speaker 5 (34:37):
The majority of people ain't even gonna make the sacrifices
I'm gonna make, just being honest. Right, So at this point,
if your goal was not to be me, your goal
is to become inspired by.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
Me to be you.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Yeah, I did that. I like that line.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
You know there's a quote I read that you did
another interview where you said, you know you're the first
specticlarly to your location in Brooklyn Heights. You're the first,
and you're the only black owned shop there, But you
don't want.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
To be the last.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
I mean, can you talk about what you've done and
what you're passionate about doing to make sure that other
black entrepreneurs can thrive in locations that are not predominantly
black people.
Speaker 6 (35:18):
Oh man, listen to me, you thrive. To be honest
with you, You're gonna thrive more because listen to me,
black people are gonna come at you wherever you at.
Speaker 5 (35:28):
Yo, I'll not forget Listen. All my locations in white neighborhoods,
they just talk about it. Because I'm in Brooklyn now right.
I remember my toy, the lady like, YO, when I
opened up in Baltimore, right, opened up in Federal Hill
and they was like, and I was like, Yo, I
don't know where all the black people come from. Every
time I open. She said that it don't matter if
you open in Alaska. If you black and some shit good,
(35:51):
they're going to come. But if but white folks not
gonna come, They not gonna.
Speaker 6 (35:56):
Come to Brownsville to get the doughnuts.
Speaker 5 (35:58):
So, YO, you can it's a but when because if
if you're black, you're needed in white neighborhoods.
Speaker 6 (36:04):
They want the culture that anyway, you know what it is.
Speaker 5 (36:09):
They're still the coaching the Oh it's a line like
what are we capinall they that's what they do. They
appropriate right, all right, it's cool. So create a medium
of commerce in the middle of it. Like you're crazy,
you think you think if I go to Trobeca right now,
that blacks ain't gonna be outside, They're.
Speaker 6 (36:26):
Gonna be outside looking for me and waiting on me. Man.
Speaker 5 (36:31):
So more black people definitely need to get We need
more black faces and white spaces. I mean I think that,
Like even in what I did in Baltimore, it ignited
a whole movement where two or three other restaurateurs came
behind me and got restaurants downtown in the in the
city there. And then a buddy of mine, Qui from
the Good Parting Company, he did a juice baw in
John Hopkins. He and John Hopkins University predominately adfluent white university.
(36:56):
So these things are happening, like Giraws the younger the
burgers spot he is, so well, it's a black man.
Like you know what I'm saying, It's just that I'm
gonna tell you what be the difference. I'll be going
to the spot and I'm a little ghetto. Yeah, so
it's like, you know, they be thinking, like, man, he
really really, really, you know what I mean, part of
the culture. So it's like and that's what really helped
(37:18):
helped me stand out because I'm able to bring all
that culture with me.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
In that same interview, I believe you talked about systems
and education that you wanted to build, that you were
building for other black entrepreneurs to be able to find
success and thrive. Particularly when you're doing multiple locations. It's
important to have those systems like these, you know, standard
operating procedures. What key things have you learned that allows
(37:44):
your business to thrive when you're not there that other
people can implement in their businesses.
Speaker 5 (37:51):
You got to get out of your emotions. This system
will allow you to prevail. Invest your money and systems.
Speaker 6 (37:57):
They won't let you down.
Speaker 5 (37:58):
People will let you down all the time, mother, brother, sister, father,
They gonna let you down.
Speaker 6 (38:02):
They failible, they people, they made mistakes.
Speaker 5 (38:05):
The system is the most consistent thing that will allow
your brand to perpetuate. Don't get emotional about your business.
People tend to say, well, I want to get my business,
and my son or my daughter, they don't even want
to run your business.
Speaker 6 (38:15):
Well, you know, I want to.
Speaker 5 (38:16):
Give it to my sister because why Well, because that
is my sister. Yeah, your shit gonna be closed next year.
Black people have to understand that for us to grow
our businesses, we have to withdraw all emotion. Your business
is best being passed down to the person that can
further the business, not maintain it, and not let it
go down the person that can further the business. There's
no one in my immediate family that could perpetuate my
(38:38):
business further than I have, so therefore I wouldn't give
it to them. But what I would do is I
would give it to someone who could perpetuate it and
create a trust where they can benefit from. So we
gotta get out of our own way. So when it
comes to systems and processes, specifically even in the day,
your day to day in a way in which you
live your life, you know, getting up on time, going
(38:59):
to work early, stand late, not really watching the clock,
being able to make sure that you got you know,
a level of balancing in life, but not extreme balance.
Because we live in a self care phase where people
just feel like down gotta do shit. And then that's
why you know they live in small studios or efficiencies
with roommates because you feel like you ain't gotta do shit.
In order for us to get well, we gotta go.
(39:20):
I'm chogging to black people. In order for us to
get well, we gotta go.
Speaker 6 (39:24):
You're going to have to work extremely hard and extremely smart.
Speaker 5 (39:29):
And then after you work hard and smart, you're gonna
have to attract people who work really hard and really smart.
Speaker 6 (39:34):
It's no ducking it. It's no only fans in it.
Speaker 5 (39:37):
It's no overnight Instagram app, and and then no, these
these white boys created these apps. I told Zode the
other day, listen when they took the fifty thousand followers
from us, how you feel because I'm still me, you
know what I'm saying. So I'm still a hustler. So
that shit really don't matter. Don't get tied up in
none of that. Put your money into yourself, put your
(39:57):
money into your people, like for example, right now, then
that stage for me is I'm on the ground bootstrap
VC money.
Speaker 6 (40:04):
Like at the build out the doughnut shops, and I
do what I gotta do. I'm real estate development. And
I'm looking. I'm looking for young black entrepreneurs who got
some shit, and I'm.
Speaker 5 (40:12):
Trying to give you a back. So like, it's a
lot of people that's not gonna have systems in processes.
So what you're gonna count them out? But they got
a high quality product or service.
Speaker 6 (40:20):
Put the system in process around them and get this
some money. You know what I mean? We leaving a
lot of money on the table. Man, we're putting all
this money.
Speaker 5 (40:27):
Into crypto NFTs. We don't know shit about these people
or what they got going on. You don't personally know
this man, Like you don't know Bill Gates personally.
Speaker 6 (40:35):
You don't even know if he liked black people. But
you keep bragging everybody you got twenty shares of Microsoft.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
What are some of those critical mistakes often made, particularly
black owned shops retail, you know, just shops particularly not
CpG anything like that, but critical mistakes often made where
we end up owning a job versus owning a business.
Speaker 6 (40:59):
Okay, I say two things.
Speaker 5 (41:01):
Typically coming to plan, we put the product before the process,
so like and the focus. Yeah yeah, so we put
the product over the process. So a person on attend
to come at me and be like, y'all make a
crazy cookie. The cookie I make everybody love it. My
mother love it, my sister love it. I got twenty
thousand followers, and I say, well, how much the cookie
cost to me?
Speaker 3 (41:22):
Uh?
Speaker 6 (41:24):
I don't know? Like all right, how long do it
take you to bake two thousand cookies? If you get
an order? I don't really know, Like you know, I
normally just do it for my homegirls. And now you're
in that space, right.
Speaker 5 (41:37):
I've run into so many private chefs who you get
on Instagram. They got a hundred thousand followers, and they
don't know. They don't got no process. They just sit
in the house and create. Right, So, like, I think
about it like this, because a buddy of mine told
me said, think about the artist. Right after the artists
paint the Picasso, and the businessman walk up to him
and say, well how much did that cost? He typically
don't know. And that's why our Picasso live a life
(41:59):
of solvency and warn Buffett live a life of influence.
And then now, how can we marry these two parties?
Speaker 4 (42:06):
Right?
Speaker 5 (42:06):
How can the black businessman or the capitalists be able
to see that young guy who's a party promoter or
who's an artist or who's like a like a like
a big graffiti artist in New York and say, yo,
we can monetize this. We can add a level of
commerce to this while also keeping it authentic and.
Speaker 6 (42:21):
Keeping it culturally and riching.
Speaker 5 (42:23):
You feel what I'm saying. So like, that's the that's
the first thing they do. They put process over product.
They put product over process. The second thing they do
is they allow two very important emotions to get in
that way, fearing ego, the fear of if I team
up with you, what is it gonna do to me?
Or the ego of I can't team up with you
(42:43):
because I'm better than you, And you don't win with
neither one of those joints.
Speaker 6 (42:47):
But neither one of those situations you always lose, right.
Speaker 5 (42:50):
So like for me, I run into it all day
with with with black entrepreneurs where it's like we'll reach
out to somebody right and we'll be like, yo, we
notice you make really good cupcakes. We don't make up kicks,
And then it's like they'll leave you on scene right.
Then they circle back after you get hot, and you'll
be like, yeah, reached.
Speaker 6 (43:08):
Out to you two years ago.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (43:10):
I wasn't really that, but you broke. You made your
minor things hit.
Speaker 5 (43:16):
Yeah, like like like black people focus on all the
wrong shit. Like I'm like, listen, I'm like, DM a
kid me me. I don't got no popular Instagram four
hundred five.
Speaker 6 (43:25):
I might DM a kid. He got fifty thousand followers,
he's selling wings, right, he leave me on scene. Oh,
I think about it. I'm gonna see then next year
double back with men. You find out like, so, how
much money you made?
Speaker 5 (43:36):
Oh I don't really like a thousand a week? Come on,
stop playing man, I don't know. Like think about it, Like,
think about large groups of black men. That's powerful, owner
shit together.
Speaker 6 (43:46):
That's ego.
Speaker 5 (43:48):
Think about small black guys who want to come up,
that's fair. Like yo, fear ego getting away. So I
always say, you know, put process over a product, eliminate
your fears and your egos. You're gonna get everywhere you
gotta go. Once you get over the good look, you
get some good money. Then it's the three e's education.
Speaker 6 (44:03):
Experience, and exposure.
Speaker 5 (44:05):
Those things gonna leave black people to be the fourth E,
which is an entrepreneur. And then when it comes to your.
Speaker 6 (44:10):
Legacy is the three p's. You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (44:13):
Preservation and protection can lead to perpetuation. It can put
you in a space where you can grow something. You
have to preserve or protect what it is that you
have so that you can perpetuate it in further and
anytime it gets hard, you got the three essas, saving
plus sacrifice equal scaling.
Speaker 6 (44:26):
It will definitely put you where you need to be.
Speaker 5 (44:28):
Don't worry about borrowing no money, worry about saving somebody
the minute that you borrow your slave to it.
Speaker 6 (44:35):
I didn't. I didn't borrow, I didn't borrow, I.
Speaker 5 (44:37):
Didn't took out hard money loans to get real estate,
all that type of I'm glad I'm getting out by
of those situations, and I got up by the most
of them.
Speaker 6 (44:44):
Like nah, so like focus on like yo. The biggest
thing for Black people.
Speaker 5 (44:48):
To be successful, right and anything they do is all
instilled in principles, not practices.
Speaker 6 (44:55):
A practice is what you sell. A principle is what
you live by. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (45:01):
It's gonna take some long standing principles like integrity, all work,
leadership skills, how not to quit, how to have some grit,
stop looking on the internet for the answers. Looking yourself
the internal work that's gonna push you to the next level.
Speaker 6 (45:17):
That's the answer man.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity Afro
Tech on the Black Effect podcast Networking Night Heart Media.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
It's produced by Morgan Debond and me.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
Well Lucas, with the addition of production support by Kate
McDonald and Jason McGee. Special thank you to Michael Davis
and Sarah Rogan.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
Learn more about my guess.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
The other tech distructor is Innovator's at afrotech dot Com.
Video version of this episode will drop to Black Tech
Green Money on YouTube, so tap in join your Black
Tech Green Money.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
This was the five start rating on Night two. I'll
get your money to Peace and Love
Speaker 5 (46:08):
M
Host
Will Lucas
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