November 3, 2025 • 12 mins
Thai Randolph is co-founder and former CEO of HARTBEAT, and led the merger of Kevin Hart’s entertainment companies into a $650 million media empire.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You said a few things that I want to dig
in on. You know, you talked about data and knowing
those numbers and the ROI which and we're talking about
creators here. If I'm if I am in my own
world an influencer, I have, you know, my TikTok, I
got my Instagram. At what point am I in a
position to go to a brand? How is it follower count?
(00:21):
Is it views on my stuff? Like because I know
a lot of people who want to be there, but
they don't have the big numbers like you know.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
These other artists. Absolutely, it's value creation, right, So it's
oftentimes it doesn't. You know, brands aren't just looking for
who has the biggest audience. Though. Reach is important because
your audience should be some indication of how many people
you'll be able to activate and in service of some
(00:48):
call to action from a brand. So that's why the
follower account matters. But if you've got a really engaged
audience and you've got deep penetration and authenticity, we often
see more results coming from folks who have very deep residency.
It's the reason why you know you'll see creators, influencers,
or even cultural leaders both going to market in the
(01:10):
same vertical, you know, whether it be spirits or fashion
or beauty. And you often see outside results from folks
that aren't the largest and what is it. They're the
most authentic and they are better activators in that particular space.
They can influence their audience through their relationship with them
(01:30):
to take action on something. And so regardless of the
audience size, I think you have to what do brands want.
Brands want to start from the top of the funnel.
They want to gain awareness, right, They want to get
folks to interact, so they want people to know about
their brands. Then they want folks to think favorably about
their brands. They want them to interact and engage, and
(01:51):
then ultimately they want them to purchase or invest in
those brands and to keep coming again and doing the
same thing. And so along that funnel, think about with
your audience, where can you move the needle right and
if you can prove real qualified actions and real qualified conversions.
And often creators start by seeing how they're able to
get their audience to activate around a small call to action.
(02:15):
You know, if you're a comedian, are people coming to
see you at the you know, at the local comedy show.
And if you can prove to a brand that your
voice and your content and your engagement with them is
going to lead to action on behalf of the brand,
regardless of the size of the audience, brands are going
to take.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Now, you know, a lot of your work, Heartbeat Included,
has been rooted in digital innovation, and I wonder what
your thoughts are on how technology may be shaping the
future of content. You know, there's so many creators who
are just going straight to YouTube or straight to you know,
these other publishing platforms and don't need traditional media that way.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, it's interesting. So you know, on we're one where
you know, in the midst of the greatest technological revolution
in history, and the speed of innovation has accelerated so fast.
When you think about predominant forms of media and how
long radio was a predominant form of media, how long
(03:17):
television was the predominant form of media, or you know,
once you got the Internet, how long it took to percolate.
We're just seeing methods of communication and forms of consumption
being interrupted in displace much faster down just because technology
is accelerating new things faster better. So what does that
mean for creators, so a ton of opportunity. If you
think about Napster and what it did to music, right,
(03:41):
So first there was you know, a huge much like
the same reaction we're having to AI right now from
a creative community. I'm going to do be disenter, you know,
disintimediated from my audience. I'm not going to be able
to sell albums anymore. Folks aren't going to be able
to experience a body of work in the way that
I intended. And a lot of those things are true
(04:03):
for a time, right, But on the other side of
that came a huge democratization of music and it meant
that you could be you know, the innovation that came
after it from you you know, Spotify and YouTube and SoundCloud.
It meant that discovery was not limited to you know,
a specific few A and R channels. It meant that
(04:23):
reaching an audience was not you know, you didn't have
to be on a national broadcast or have a music
video playing on one of the top cable networks in
order to do so. So there was a huge amount
of disruption and disintermediation. There was a huge amount of opportunity,
and we're seeing the same thing but just you know,
amplified what seems like one hundred x right now, So
(04:44):
is there a ton of you know, protection and rights
concerns around NIL and voice and all of the above
and the rise of AI, Well, contracts look different, absolutely,
But it also means that creators are able to do
things that were once or for studios, right it means uh,
you know, creators the you know, the cost of content production,
(05:05):
the cost of creativity goes down. But they're also threats
to the craft. And you know, when you think about
building careers digitally, there there is still you know a
sense of you know, how was that home. Some of
the talent that you know, I've had the good fortune
to partner with, you know, have built their careers over decades,
(05:28):
right like honing it on stage, honing it with direct
to audience engagement, and there's a it's very different when
you're doing that through a screen. Is it any less valuable?
You know, maybe not to the existing audience, but there
is a difference. And so, you know, I think how
craft is developed and how career is developed or monetized
with two different questions. And so so I think there
(05:51):
could be these these threats to craft. But it also
when so much is digitized, this this craft holds more weight, right,
like what you put into that work and how you
developed that, you start to place a premium on it.
But you know the net is tons more access and
more opportunity, but also more competition right in the market
(06:11):
as a result of it.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I want to go to a step deeper that because
you make me think about it. I grew up in
a church and I remember there were people, Yeah, there
were people, and I'm sure you've seen who could sing
better than anybody who's got a record deal, you know,
but they're never going to get one for whatever reason.
And I wonder, then listening to you talk just because
you're good or talented doesn't mean you know how to
get found. And I wonder, like what your thoughts are
(06:36):
on how do people get found? Because you're to your point,
like it's more competition now, like the landscape is completely changed.
And to add on to that question, like did COVID
change any of that, because now we don't need to
be necessarily in New York, or in la or in
some of these places right necessarily.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I was actually floored by the amount of innovation that's
happening in the classroom is such a young age now
in so many of these schools, and we're based in
LA but you know, you've got six and seven year
olds who are doing podcasting and these very advanced team studios.
But in doing so, they're learning how to craft stories
(07:15):
around themselves and actually thinking about how to monetize and
how to promote those both scary and wildly enlightening on
the other side. And so I'll say there's a difference.
I don't even know what the term is, right if
we were beyond digital natives, you know, like it's a
complete digital first generation. And so I would say, I
(07:39):
think that this next generation is much more savvy about
discovery and promotion than than perhaps those who are doing
it right now at the moment, you know, are that
being said, what is required, what it means to be
a storyteller, what it means to be a creator at
this moment, I believe means being part of our as
(08:00):
part scientists. Right before I think we were and again,
I was a film major, and you know, I thought
that I was going to have this like really beautiful,
romantic career in the art and and I think, you know,
I've had the exact career that I was supposed to have,
and I younifashioned myself a storyteller and a business builder
and that artist and scientists, and so you know, you
(08:22):
need to be engaged in story and you need to
make meaning of things, and you also have to figure out,
you know, how to mechanize that in order to get
it seen and to for it to be consumed. Even
if you're not directly involved in digital distribution, if you
are telling story in any form, if you're creating in
(08:42):
any form, you at least need to understand how it
will ultimately be distributed or consumed, right, so you have
some context with with what you're creating. And I think
that's what I would say. I would say that it
is that is the mandate now, right to know the
what and to be committed to the what and doing
it in a way this is unique you that only
you can put your footprint on, but really understanding the
(09:03):
how as well, and I don't know that that was
as important, and you know sort of previous generations.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
You know, you mentioned your kids in the kind of
education they're getting today versus how we grew up, you know,
when we were going on. I mean they asked you
you want to be a fireman, you want to be
a police officer, these sorts of things. And these kids
now want to be mister beasts and they want to
be you know, YouTubers and Kaya sanin I Show Speed
and all these guys. And I wonder what Ty thinks
(09:30):
about if her seven year old concerns like I want
to be a YouTuber therefore like nothing, I don't care
about anything else. This is where I'm going.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
M hm. So that's happened. I don't know many parents
from whom that hasn't just because of them. We you know,
we try to be you know, really good stewards and
not over index on on screen time. But as a parent,
forget about you know, the executive, the entrepreneur. As a parent,
I I definitely have serious concerns, and not just about
(10:03):
technology but what technology unlocks. So clearly there's safety concerns
and you want to be really vigilant. There's a level
of discernment concerns what's real and what's not real that
I think we're dealing with for the first time, like
now with AI, like you're watching you know, if someone's
consuming it's something and they don't have a point of
reference for it in the real world or what is
(10:24):
the real world anymore? As a parent, right, there are
these big kind of ethical considerations. But I think that
when you talk about creators so often, what we're defaulting
to in that discussion can be some kind of influence. Right.
But like what we found our the conversation we have
found ourselves having with our seven year old who see
(10:46):
his picture right there, like a smart kid, was the
difference between like fame and validation and the making of
something right, And so it's so you know, what do
you want to make and what do you want to contribute,
and you know, how do you want to be in
the world versus how many people know you and how
(11:07):
do you want to be seen? And that's a pressure
that was not on that children are facing in mass
It's a completely unrealistic pressure that everyone should have this
level of fame and notoriety. And you know, I'm no psychologists,
but I just wonder what that's doing to the psyche
and so as a parent, I'm really guarding against that.
(11:29):
But I think it's a bigger question for us as
a creative community, right, like where does where what is
the role of craft now? Philosophical and ethical conversations. And
what I've come to is, I just want my child
to be very curious minded, to be you know, to
have a critical eye right and discerning, and to to
(11:53):
be a deep thinker and to understand and to be
a deep thinker and a continuous learner, because I think
that those are the and you start to default to
the fundamentals, like, you know, I want you to appreciate philosophy.
You should really be thinking about, you know, sort of
like how you show up in the world and what
it means to be, you know, a good citizen of
the world, because there's just so much more access right,
(12:17):
like everything that we kind of imagine, they're able to
do and and touch and in a in a much
more accessible way. And so then you just have to
have a higher level of discernment and critical thinking skills.
You said a few things that I want to dig
in on. You know, you talked about data and knowing
those numbers and the ROI which and we're talking about
creators here. If I'm if I am in my own
world an influencer, I have, you know, my TikTok, I
got my Instagram. At what point am I in a
position to go to a brand? How is it follower count?
(00:21):
Is it views on my stuff? Like because I know
a lot of people who want to be there, but
they don't have the big numbers like you know.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
These other artists. Absolutely, it's value creation, right, So it's
oftentimes it doesn't. You know, brands aren't just looking for
who has the biggest audience. Though. Reach is important because
your audience should be some indication of how many people
you'll be able to activate and in service of some
(00:48):
call to action from a brand. So that's why the
follower account matters. But if you've got a really engaged
audience and you've got deep penetration and authenticity, we often
see more results coming from folks who have very deep residency.
It's the reason why you know you'll see creators, influencers,
or even cultural leaders both going to market in the
(01:10):
same vertical, you know, whether it be spirits or fashion
or beauty. And you often see outside results from folks
that aren't the largest and what is it. They're the
most authentic and they are better activators in that particular space.
They can influence their audience through their relationship with them
(01:30):
to take action on something. And so regardless of the
audience size, I think you have to what do brands want.
Brands want to start from the top of the funnel.
They want to gain awareness, right, They want to get
folks to interact, so they want people to know about
their brands. Then they want folks to think favorably about
their brands. They want them to interact and engage, and
(01:51):
then ultimately they want them to purchase or invest in
those brands and to keep coming again and doing the
same thing. And so along that funnel, think about with
your audience, where can you move the needle right and
if you can prove real qualified actions and real qualified conversions.
And often creators start by seeing how they're able to
get their audience to activate around a small call to action.
(02:15):
You know, if you're a comedian, are people coming to
see you at the you know, at the local comedy show.
And if you can prove to a brand that your
voice and your content and your engagement with them is
going to lead to action on behalf of the brand,
regardless of the size of the audience, brands are going
to take.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Now, you know, a lot of your work, Heartbeat Included,
has been rooted in digital innovation, and I wonder what
your thoughts are on how technology may be shaping the
future of content. You know, there's so many creators who
are just going straight to YouTube or straight to you know,
these other publishing platforms and don't need traditional media that way.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, it's interesting. So you know, on we're one where
you know, in the midst of the greatest technological revolution
in history, and the speed of innovation has accelerated so fast.
When you think about predominant forms of media and how
long radio was a predominant form of media, how long
(03:17):
television was the predominant form of media, or you know,
once you got the Internet, how long it took to percolate.
We're just seeing methods of communication and forms of consumption
being interrupted in displace much faster down just because technology
is accelerating new things faster better. So what does that
mean for creators, so a ton of opportunity. If you
think about Napster and what it did to music, right,
(03:41):
So first there was you know, a huge much like
the same reaction we're having to AI right now from
a creative community. I'm going to do be disenter, you know,
disintimediated from my audience. I'm not going to be able
to sell albums anymore. Folks aren't going to be able
to experience a body of work in the way that
I intended. And a lot of those things are true
(04:03):
for a time, right, But on the other side of
that came a huge democratization of music and it meant
that you could be you know, the innovation that came
after it from you you know, Spotify and YouTube and SoundCloud.
It meant that discovery was not limited to you know,
a specific few A and R channels. It meant that
(04:23):
reaching an audience was not you know, you didn't have
to be on a national broadcast or have a music
video playing on one of the top cable networks in
order to do so. So there was a huge amount
of disruption and disintermediation. There was a huge amount of opportunity,
and we're seeing the same thing but just you know,
amplified what seems like one hundred x right now, So
(04:44):
is there a ton of you know, protection and rights
concerns around NIL and voice and all of the above
and the rise of AI, Well, contracts look different, absolutely,
But it also means that creators are able to do
things that were once or for studios, right it means uh,
you know, creators the you know, the cost of content production,
(05:05):
the cost of creativity goes down. But they're also threats
to the craft. And you know, when you think about
building careers digitally, there there is still you know a
sense of you know, how was that home. Some of
the talent that you know, I've had the good fortune
to partner with, you know, have built their careers over decades,
(05:28):
right like honing it on stage, honing it with direct
to audience engagement, and there's a it's very different when
you're doing that through a screen. Is it any less valuable?
You know, maybe not to the existing audience, but there
is a difference. And so, you know, I think how
craft is developed and how career is developed or monetized
with two different questions. And so so I think there
(05:51):
could be these these threats to craft. But it also
when so much is digitized, this this craft holds more weight, right,
like what you put into that work and how you
developed that, you start to place a premium on it.
But you know the net is tons more access and
more opportunity, but also more competition right in the market
(06:11):
as a result of it.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I want to go to a step deeper that because
you make me think about it. I grew up in
a church and I remember there were people, Yeah, there
were people, and I'm sure you've seen who could sing
better than anybody who's got a record deal, you know,
but they're never going to get one for whatever reason.
And I wonder, then listening to you talk just because
you're good or talented doesn't mean you know how to
get found. And I wonder, like what your thoughts are
(06:36):
on how do people get found? Because you're to your point,
like it's more competition now, like the landscape is completely changed.
And to add on to that question, like did COVID
change any of that, because now we don't need to
be necessarily in New York, or in la or in
some of these places right necessarily.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I was actually floored by the amount of innovation that's
happening in the classroom is such a young age now
in so many of these schools, and we're based in
LA but you know, you've got six and seven year
olds who are doing podcasting and these very advanced team studios.
But in doing so, they're learning how to craft stories
(07:15):
around themselves and actually thinking about how to monetize and
how to promote those both scary and wildly enlightening on
the other side. And so I'll say there's a difference.
I don't even know what the term is, right if
we were beyond digital natives, you know, like it's a
complete digital first generation. And so I would say, I
(07:39):
think that this next generation is much more savvy about
discovery and promotion than than perhaps those who are doing
it right now at the moment, you know, are that
being said, what is required, what it means to be
a storyteller, what it means to be a creator at
this moment, I believe means being part of our as
(08:00):
part scientists. Right before I think we were and again,
I was a film major, and you know, I thought
that I was going to have this like really beautiful,
romantic career in the art and and I think, you know,
I've had the exact career that I was supposed to have,
and I younifashioned myself a storyteller and a business builder
and that artist and scientists, and so you know, you
(08:22):
need to be engaged in story and you need to
make meaning of things, and you also have to figure out,
you know, how to mechanize that in order to get
it seen and to for it to be consumed. Even
if you're not directly involved in digital distribution, if you
are telling story in any form, if you're creating in
(08:42):
any form, you at least need to understand how it
will ultimately be distributed or consumed, right, so you have
some context with with what you're creating. And I think
that's what I would say. I would say that it
is that is the mandate now, right to know the
what and to be committed to the what and doing
it in a way this is unique you that only
you can put your footprint on, but really understanding the
(09:03):
how as well, and I don't know that that was
as important, and you know sort of previous generations.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
You know, you mentioned your kids in the kind of
education they're getting today versus how we grew up, you know,
when we were going on. I mean they asked you
you want to be a fireman, you want to be
a police officer, these sorts of things. And these kids
now want to be mister beasts and they want to
be you know, YouTubers and Kaya sanin I Show Speed
and all these guys. And I wonder what Ty thinks
(09:30):
about if her seven year old concerns like I want
to be a YouTuber therefore like nothing, I don't care
about anything else. This is where I'm going.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
M hm. So that's happened. I don't know many parents
from whom that hasn't just because of them. We you know,
we try to be you know, really good stewards and
not over index on on screen time. But as a parent,
forget about you know, the executive, the entrepreneur. As a parent,
I I definitely have serious concerns, and not just about
(10:03):
technology but what technology unlocks. So clearly there's safety concerns
and you want to be really vigilant. There's a level
of discernment concerns what's real and what's not real that
I think we're dealing with for the first time, like
now with AI, like you're watching you know, if someone's
consuming it's something and they don't have a point of
reference for it in the real world or what is
(10:24):
the real world anymore? As a parent, right, there are
these big kind of ethical considerations. But I think that
when you talk about creators so often, what we're defaulting
to in that discussion can be some kind of influence. Right.
But like what we found our the conversation we have
found ourselves having with our seven year old who see
(10:46):
his picture right there, like a smart kid, was the
difference between like fame and validation and the making of
something right, And so it's so you know, what do
you want to make and what do you want to contribute,
and you know, how do you want to be in
the world versus how many people know you and how
(11:07):
do you want to be seen? And that's a pressure
that was not on that children are facing in mass
It's a completely unrealistic pressure that everyone should have this
level of fame and notoriety. And you know, I'm no psychologists,
but I just wonder what that's doing to the psyche
and so as a parent, I'm really guarding against that.
(11:29):
But I think it's a bigger question for us as
a creative community, right, like where does where what is
the role of craft now? Philosophical and ethical conversations. And
what I've come to is, I just want my child
to be very curious minded, to be you know, to
have a critical eye right and discerning, and to to
(11:53):
be a deep thinker and to understand and to be
a deep thinker and a continuous learner, because I think
that those are the and you start to default to
the fundamentals, like, you know, I want you to appreciate philosophy.
You should really be thinking about, you know, sort of
like how you show up in the world and what
it means to be, you know, a good citizen of
the world, because there's just so much more access right,
(12:17):
like everything that we kind of imagine, they're able to
do and and touch and in a in a much
more accessible way. And so then you just have to
have a higher level of discernment and critical thinking skills.
Host
Will Lucas
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