June 6, 2025 • 8 mins
Former New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu weighs in on the fight between Elon Musk and President Donald Trump and why he believes Musk is right about the looming economic impact of the 'Big Beautiful Bill'.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And on that note, we turned to Christan Nunu, the
former Republican governor of New Hampshire, who was joining us
here on Balance of Power on Bloomberg TV and Radio. Governor,
welcome back. It's always great to have you. You, of course,
are familiar with both of these characters that we are
talking about here. Are you surprised that there has been
a falling out between these two or at the very
least surprised by the velocity of the break?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
No?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
I am, I actually am.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
I've worked with both of them, and I thought cooler
heads would prevail over the bill. I think Elon probably
Elon has never been great with understanding the value of
messaging and the timing, and he probably went a bit
too far, not just support, not just saying hey, we
need to push back on the big beautiful bill. But
I think it was the you went to one Pennsylvania
without me comment that really probably come under Trump's skin
(00:56):
more than anything, and that escalated things. I do believe
though cooler heads will prevail, there'll be some reconciling, a
private conversation here, things will quiet down, They'll get beyond
the Bill. They still want the best for this country.
They have, you know, on a couple issues. They may
differ here and there, but you know, things that are inflamed.
I think the Democrats are excited there could be a
(01:16):
breakup of the two bros, so to say. But at
the end of the day, I think there'll be some
cold war piece found.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
Well, Governor, it's good to see you. Welcome back to Bloomberg.
We just heard from Elon Musk. He just posted while
you were talking on X very simply Bannon is a criminal. Yeah,
We'll going to get right to the point here. I
don't know if you've heard some of the remarks that
Steve Bannon has made about Elon Musk over the course
of this second term for Donald Trump. He weighed in
(01:46):
with Politico saying that he and Peter Navarro are recommending
executive orders to implement the Defense Production Act to seize
both SpaceX and Starlink take them under government control. While
Elon Musk is investigated for his immigration status, security clearing,
and drug use, what does Maga's hang up with Elon?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Well, I don't think it's a Maga hang up or
even a Republican hang up. I think Bannon and a
few others have just never understood the relationship that the
President and Elon had. I think Bannon is again, he's
giddy because finally the guy he never really appreciated and
wanted in the White House in the first place is
kind of getting his come up ins, if you will,
with the president. So I think there's just a select
(02:28):
group of people that are just like, okay, you know,
there there was never they didn't have that relationship that
the President had. Remember, I mean, Trump and Elon would
talk every day, multiple times.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
A day, every night.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
They have a very long and firm relationship that is
obviously under some severe fire right now.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
But it's not built on a house of cards.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I mean, it really is built on I think, a
vision that the two of them share. So ultimately, you know,
I don't think it'll ever go back to the way
it was, Don't get me wrong, but I think cooler
heads will prevail on both sides, especially Elon, but on
both sides because you know, there's benefits to you that
each of them have to the other, not just commercial
and financial benefits, but political benefits and trying to get
(03:09):
the country back on track. So you know, I think
this will be an interesting chapter when someone writes the
book on it all.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
To be sure, but I don't think.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
It's going to define the presidency or crash the bill
or be It's more of a trivial thing at this point.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Well, forget the book of it. I'm waiting for the
docu series or whatever is going to show up on eve.
If there's going to be a reunion of some time host.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
I'm watching them right for Bravo. I think we're waiting
fair enough.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
We are living it certainly.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Governor.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
We've spoken with you before on this program about how
you actually admired Elon Musk in the Department of Government
Efficiencies fundamental mission, which was to reduce the size of
the federal government get our fiscal house in order. So
in that vein, do you think Elon is fundamentally wrong
about his accusations around this bill being too big to
be beautiful, at having too much of an impact on
the debt and deficit of the United States.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
He's right, Elon is right on this one.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
There's no question about that that the federal government has
to start making tough decisions. And I'm not And we
can put it in the Elon context He was asked
to come in do things that no one else has
ever done in terms of exposing waste and fraud and
finding places to cut tens, if not hundreds of billions
of dollars. No one had done it, No one had
ever done it that fast and that strong. He did
it for the president. He sacrificed a lot for it.
(04:25):
And now he's like, wait, but I don't get anything
for this. I make all that sacrifice and you guys
aren't even gonna go.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Through with it.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Now there'll be some recision bills, but already we all
know those recision bills are are a very small piece
of the pie that the federal government really needs to
take on. So I completely get the frustration and the
disappointment that he has when it looks like that we're
going to the fiscal conservatives are adding to the debt, Like,
what are we doing here?
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Right? This is crazy? So it's and it's not just him.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
You see it from the more independent fiscal minds, whether
it's it's the JMI Diamond and.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
The hedge fund.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Managers and these guys that really watch this economy deeply
saying yes, they are hedging themselves into other currencies right now.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Not because they don't believe in America.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
But let's remember we don't no longer have a triple
bond rating, right It's just good practice right now from
a financial standpoint to look at other currencies. We're still
going to be the reserve currency in the short term,
but there are threats to that.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
There's no question to.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
That, and nobody wants to see it. But it's all
because of the debt and inability. I believe there's a
bit of a political revolution coming where all this money
that goes to candidates, it's going to start to go
back to the states and issues where there's opportunities.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I think we've talked about it on your show before.
I'm a believer. There's twenty seven states.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
That have passed balanced budget amendment resolutions for the federal government.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
You need five or six more.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
That's it, and then the states impose a balanced budget
amendment on the federal government. That's how the founding fathers
designed it. And we're right at the finish line there.
That's a great opportunity for an Elon Musk to come
in right and say, look, I'm going to fund that.
I'm not going to fund these conservative politicians anymore who
say one thing and don't do another. I'm going to
fund opportunities in the states to force the federal government.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
To get their act together fiscally.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
So there's just going to be a different mindset given
that this was the golden opportunity. This is where America said,
we know you have to make tough decisions. It might
be a bumpy road, We're ready for it. And then
they backed off. They all chickened out. Yet Josh Holly Center.
Holly's supposed to be a conservative, and he's telling people
we can't touch Medicaid because it would be a political
political suicide. We didn't elect you to go there and
(06:33):
make decisions based on politics. We elected you to go
there and make tough decisions because America has some really
tough financial times ahead of it and we're standing it.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
And what a great opportunity.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
For the first time in a long time, the public
is thinking about debt and deficit. They're willing to understand
that there could be some bumps in the or the
economy is strong.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
What better time to do it With a strong economy.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
And I know Trump wants the one percent cut right now,
I would I would tell the President don't waste it.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
You're gonna need that in the fall.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
By the way, right, you're gonna see the jobless number
really skyrocket this fall. That's when all these federal employees
are going to really come on the rolls. I'd love
to know what Anna thinks about the timing of all
that as well.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
She's brilliant.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
But these a lot of these these jobless claims out
of the federal government will really accelerate this fall, and
that's when you're gonna want the cut not to one percent,
but maybe a quarter a half percent.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
And I think I think the Federal Reserve chair knows that.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
So all these are big pieces of the puzzle, and
Republicans should be doing their job, and they're they're they're
kind of blowing it, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
So I get I get Elon's frustration here.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Well, boy, we're going to be playing back a bunch
of this tape in the fall. Governor will only have
a minute left.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
You got me going.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
It sounds to me, it sounds to me like you
see Elon Musk as somebody who came to Washington and
saw too much to take it seriously. And maybe the
same dialogue you had with yourself when you had a
chance to run for Senate and you said, no way.
If you were in the Senate, you'd vote no on this.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Yeah, I'd vote no on this bill. Yeah I could.
I couldn't get it.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Look, if you're not appreciating that, of all these smaller
issues we talk about, the debt and deficit are number
freaking one, and there's no two, three, and four behind that.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Because the car crash is coming.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
It's not politics, it is math people, Right, Inflation is
going to skyrocket when we have to borrow, when Social.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Security goes bankrupt.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
So look, everyone just needs to get their heads together,
make some tough decisions and put America's financial future first.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
The world is counting on us to do the right thing.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Wow, thanks for not making us have to bleep you,
Chris Snunu, the former Republican governor of New Hampshire. Come
back and see us soon with Kaylee Lines. I'm Joe
Matthew dis Is Bloomberg
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And on that note, we turned to Christan Nunu, the
former Republican governor of New Hampshire, who was joining us
here on Balance of Power on Bloomberg TV and Radio. Governor,
welcome back. It's always great to have you. You, of course,
are familiar with both of these characters that we are
talking about here. Are you surprised that there has been
a falling out between these two or at the very
least surprised by the velocity of the break?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
No?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
I am, I actually am.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
I've worked with both of them, and I thought cooler
heads would prevail over the bill. I think Elon probably
Elon has never been great with understanding the value of
messaging and the timing, and he probably went a bit
too far, not just support, not just saying hey, we
need to push back on the big beautiful bill. But
I think it was the you went to one Pennsylvania
without me comment that really probably come under Trump's skin
(00:56):
more than anything, and that escalated things. I do believe
though cooler heads will prevail, there'll be some reconciling, a
private conversation here, things will quiet down, They'll get beyond
the Bill. They still want the best for this country.
They have, you know, on a couple issues. They may
differ here and there, but you know, things that are inflamed.
I think the Democrats are excited there could be a
(01:16):
breakup of the two bros, so to say. But at
the end of the day, I think there'll be some
cold war piece found.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
Well, Governor, it's good to see you. Welcome back to Bloomberg.
We just heard from Elon Musk. He just posted while
you were talking on X very simply Bannon is a criminal. Yeah,
We'll going to get right to the point here. I
don't know if you've heard some of the remarks that
Steve Bannon has made about Elon Musk over the course
of this second term for Donald Trump. He weighed in
(01:46):
with Politico saying that he and Peter Navarro are recommending
executive orders to implement the Defense Production Act to seize
both SpaceX and Starlink take them under government control. While
Elon Musk is investigated for his immigration status, security clearing,
and drug use, what does Maga's hang up with Elon?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Well, I don't think it's a Maga hang up or
even a Republican hang up. I think Bannon and a
few others have just never understood the relationship that the
President and Elon had. I think Bannon is again, he's
giddy because finally the guy he never really appreciated and
wanted in the White House in the first place is
kind of getting his come up ins, if you will,
with the president. So I think there's just a select
(02:28):
group of people that are just like, okay, you know,
there there was never they didn't have that relationship that
the President had. Remember, I mean, Trump and Elon would
talk every day, multiple times.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
A day, every night.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
They have a very long and firm relationship that is
obviously under some severe fire right now.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
But it's not built on a house of cards.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I mean, it really is built on I think, a
vision that the two of them share. So ultimately, you know,
I don't think it'll ever go back to the way
it was, Don't get me wrong, but I think cooler
heads will prevail on both sides, especially Elon, but on
both sides because you know, there's benefits to you that
each of them have to the other, not just commercial
and financial benefits, but political benefits and trying to get
(03:09):
the country back on track. So you know, I think
this will be an interesting chapter when someone writes the
book on it all.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
To be sure, but I don't think.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
It's going to define the presidency or crash the bill
or be It's more of a trivial thing at this point.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Well, forget the book of it. I'm waiting for the
docu series or whatever is going to show up on eve.
If there's going to be a reunion of some time host.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
I'm watching them right for Bravo. I think we're waiting
fair enough.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
We are living it certainly.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Governor.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
We've spoken with you before on this program about how
you actually admired Elon Musk in the Department of Government
Efficiencies fundamental mission, which was to reduce the size of
the federal government get our fiscal house in order. So
in that vein, do you think Elon is fundamentally wrong
about his accusations around this bill being too big to
be beautiful, at having too much of an impact on
the debt and deficit of the United States.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
He's right, Elon is right on this one.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
There's no question about that that the federal government has
to start making tough decisions. And I'm not And we
can put it in the Elon context He was asked
to come in do things that no one else has
ever done in terms of exposing waste and fraud and
finding places to cut tens, if not hundreds of billions
of dollars. No one had done it, No one had
ever done it that fast and that strong. He did
it for the president. He sacrificed a lot for it.
(04:25):
And now he's like, wait, but I don't get anything
for this. I make all that sacrifice and you guys
aren't even gonna go.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Through with it.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Now there'll be some recision bills, but already we all
know those recision bills are are a very small piece
of the pie that the federal government really needs to
take on. So I completely get the frustration and the
disappointment that he has when it looks like that we're
going to the fiscal conservatives are adding to the debt, Like,
what are we doing here?
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Right? This is crazy? So it's and it's not just him.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
You see it from the more independent fiscal minds, whether
it's it's the JMI Diamond and.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
The hedge fund.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Managers and these guys that really watch this economy deeply
saying yes, they are hedging themselves into other currencies right now.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Not because they don't believe in America.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
But let's remember we don't no longer have a triple
bond rating, right It's just good practice right now from
a financial standpoint to look at other currencies. We're still
going to be the reserve currency in the short term,
but there are threats to that.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
There's no question to.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
That, and nobody wants to see it. But it's all
because of the debt and inability. I believe there's a
bit of a political revolution coming where all this money
that goes to candidates, it's going to start to go
back to the states and issues where there's opportunities.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I think we've talked about it on your show before.
I'm a believer. There's twenty seven states.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
That have passed balanced budget amendment resolutions for the federal government.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
You need five or six more.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
That's it, and then the states impose a balanced budget
amendment on the federal government. That's how the founding fathers
designed it. And we're right at the finish line there.
That's a great opportunity for an Elon Musk to come
in right and say, look, I'm going to fund that.
I'm not going to fund these conservative politicians anymore who
say one thing and don't do another. I'm going to
fund opportunities in the states to force the federal government.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
To get their act together fiscally.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
So there's just going to be a different mindset given
that this was the golden opportunity. This is where America said,
we know you have to make tough decisions. It might
be a bumpy road, We're ready for it. And then
they backed off. They all chickened out. Yet Josh Holly Center.
Holly's supposed to be a conservative, and he's telling people
we can't touch Medicaid because it would be a political
political suicide. We didn't elect you to go there and
(06:33):
make decisions based on politics. We elected you to go
there and make tough decisions because America has some really
tough financial times ahead of it and we're standing it.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
And what a great opportunity.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
For the first time in a long time, the public
is thinking about debt and deficit. They're willing to understand
that there could be some bumps in the or the
economy is strong.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
What better time to do it With a strong economy.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
And I know Trump wants the one percent cut right now,
I would I would tell the President don't waste it.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
You're gonna need that in the fall.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
By the way, right, you're gonna see the jobless number
really skyrocket this fall. That's when all these federal employees
are going to really come on the rolls. I'd love
to know what Anna thinks about the timing of all
that as well.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
She's brilliant.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
But these a lot of these these jobless claims out
of the federal government will really accelerate this fall, and
that's when you're gonna want the cut not to one percent,
but maybe a quarter a half percent.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
And I think I think the Federal Reserve chair knows that.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
So all these are big pieces of the puzzle, and
Republicans should be doing their job, and they're they're they're
kind of blowing it, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
So I get I get Elon's frustration here.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Well, boy, we're going to be playing back a bunch
of this tape in the fall. Governor will only have
a minute left.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
You got me going.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
It sounds to me, it sounds to me like you
see Elon Musk as somebody who came to Washington and
saw too much to take it seriously. And maybe the
same dialogue you had with yourself when you had a
chance to run for Senate and you said, no way.
If you were in the Senate, you'd vote no on this.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Yeah, I'd vote no on this bill. Yeah I could.
I couldn't get it.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Look, if you're not appreciating that, of all these smaller
issues we talk about, the debt and deficit are number
freaking one, and there's no two, three, and four behind that.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Because the car crash is coming.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
It's not politics, it is math people, Right, Inflation is
going to skyrocket when we have to borrow, when Social.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Security goes bankrupt.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
So look, everyone just needs to get their heads together,
make some tough decisions and put America's financial future first.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
The world is counting on us to do the right thing.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Wow, thanks for not making us have to bleep you,
Chris Snunu, the former Republican governor of New Hampshire. Come
back and see us soon with Kaylee Lines. I'm Joe
Matthew dis Is Bloomberg
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.