May 5, 2023 • 63 mins
Leo Schofield’s parole hearing is held in Tallahassee, FL on May 3rd, 2023, before the Florida Commission on Offender Review. In the lead up to the hearing, Gilbert and Kelsey check in with Scott Cupp and Crissie Schofield. Following the commission’s decision, Leo’s friends, family, and supporters grapple with the outcome. And Leo processes the news.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
One of the questions I'm always asked is how do
I get through this? And it's really tough, and you
feel it, it hurts, and then you put your shoulders back,
you put your head up, you'll hug your friends and
your family, and you just keep going. So as you
know that commissioners decide what's gonna happen, and then there's
(00:31):
always this plan to send letters and to talk to
them and kind of get a feel for where they're going.
And last time we did that, we were so helpful.
The night before we thought, oh, this is it, so
hopeful and it turned out really crappy. So tonight, based
on some of the information, we're not so hopeful. So
(00:54):
we're gonna let Laurie say that prayer and we're gonna
just keep going. Okay, Lisa, can you come over so
we can all kind of be close.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Dear Heavenly Father, we ask Lord to do only what
you can do that you would bring us the outcome
that we want. We ask that you would speak with
the people on this board who are gonna make this
life altering decision for Leo and Chrissy. We ask Lord
that you would speak to their hearts, that you would
(01:32):
give them that, knowing in the bottom of their soul
that they would be doing the right thing by granting
him parole. We just ask and pray, and we are
begging on our knees that it is the outcome that
we so desire. We love you, Lord, we praise you,
and we pray this in your son Christ's name. Amen.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Amen, do you hear my mins?
Speaker 4 (02:08):
I have to hide my feelings, saw rustp sorry lists.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
In this valley.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
I wanna see ralation o, my long water rich das rash,
to the one who's holding the star, to the one solding.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Stop, to the warm holding the sort.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
This is a special bonus episode of Bone Valley. The
day before Leo's parole hearing, Scott Kup and I had
one last chance to meet with the commissioners who would
decide if Leo was going to be granted parole. Going
into these meetings, we had some insight about where the
commissioners might stand. The commission's chair, Melinda Kunrod, had been
(03:33):
asking Leo's lawyers questions that seemed to indicate she believes
in Leo's innocence. The second Commissioner, David Wyant, is a
former police officer from Polk County. We heard he'd had
a close relationship with the former state Attorney Jerry Hill,
and he'd be the commissioner least receptive toward granting Leo parole.
(03:53):
That left Commissioner Richard Davison the third vote, the wild card,
the one who would probably passed the tie breaking vote
in determining Leo's fate. So we came to Tallahassee for
a meeting with Davison just twenty four hours before the
official ruling would be made at Leo's May third parole hearing.
(04:14):
Kelsey was outside waiting for me and Scott when we
walked out of.
Speaker 6 (04:17):
The meeting.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
The car.
Speaker 7 (04:21):
No, it's really bad and he's not gonna talk right now.
Speaker 8 (04:23):
I can't.
Speaker 7 (04:25):
I'm sorry, fucking disaster. He's been talking to the tenth
and went over and he said, I've listened to both
sides now and I'm just not convinced he's innocent. And
I'm going to vote for twenty four months at Everglades
and he says, maybe they'll be an epiphany tomorrow, but
(04:46):
that's the way I'm voting. He started talking to me
about bloodstains, and it's just fucking very clear that the
state is talking to him and giving him all sorts
of bullshit about the evidence.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
He goes, where's the blood.
Speaker 7 (04:57):
There's no blood.
Speaker 5 (04:59):
Where's the blood at the canal?
Speaker 9 (05:00):
I was like, it's fucking there.
Speaker 7 (05:00):
You want to see the picture.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
FDL says it in the transcript, that's where her blood is.
Speaker 7 (05:06):
And he's arguing that shit with me, and I just
you know, he said, this is not about guilt or
innocence anyway, but he says, I'm a creature of the system,
and I have to believe that what the courts have
sucided is correct, and the courts are saying he's guilty.
And he said, I didn't hear one thing in your
podcast that was inaccurate to me. Okay, well, then you
(05:27):
know he's innocent. What I just never forget the words
he said, I'm a creature of the system the courts
have ruled, and he's not willing to acknowledge that there
are mistakes made, which you know, he did write the
report to give clemency to the Groven Force, so he
knows that mistakes are made and just won't do it.
(05:49):
And you know, I mean, I'm just imagining that Wyant
is in the same boat. We saw Wyant in the hallway,
asked him if you would meet with us. He said,
I'm busy, I'm busy, give me a call my cellphone
and just walked away. Twenty four months.
Speaker 10 (06:07):
That I everglades twenty four months?
Speaker 8 (06:10):
Two fucking years? Why two years?
Speaker 7 (06:14):
Well, the thing he did say, unless I have an epiphany,
that's gonna be my vote. And so we just talked
about keep an open mind for the epiphany. But I
don't know, was the worst meeting I've ever been in
my life. We gave Scott a minute to process what
(06:37):
had just happened, and then we got in the car
with him and left, knowing that we'd be back the
next morning for the hearing. Two years.
Speaker 11 (06:47):
So let's think about that.
Speaker 12 (06:49):
You don't give a flying fuck whether this man is
guilty or innocent.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
That's what it boils down.
Speaker 7 (06:58):
He has to respect.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
Scott knew he owed Leo an update about the meetings.
He tried to get Leo on the phone to tell
him about what just happened, but he couldn't get through.
Scott forwarded me the email he sent him. Hey Davison
says he listened to the podcast, but he is still
inclined to vote extension to Everglades for the lifers. We
(07:21):
may still be able to convince him to straight parole
to Noah's and that's what we're working on now and.
Speaker 7 (07:26):
Going into the evening. We're still at the worst case
scenario of transfer to Everglades. Please try to hang in there.
We are not finished by any stretch. I will keep
sending you emails through the evening as I get more info.
I still know God has this. I pray you agree, Scott.
(07:49):
After we'd met with the commissioner, as I got a
text from Chrissy just said I need to talk and
then yea, she knows Leo must have got that thing
and knew it and called her. I'm gonna have to
just give her some hope.
Speaker 13 (08:04):
I don't know.
Speaker 9 (08:04):
I just can't.
Speaker 7 (08:05):
I can't just tell her it's came over because I
don't know it's over.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
I mean, it's not.
Speaker 9 (08:09):
It hasn't been voted on yet.
Speaker 14 (08:11):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, because he's ready, she says, I prefer
not to record.
Speaker 9 (08:24):
Okay, let me just turn this off.
Speaker 7 (08:26):
Then sorry, she never does this, so she's gonna be upset. Okay,
here we go, crazy, Hey, where are you right?
Speaker 5 (08:41):
Now called her, and.
Speaker 7 (08:46):
She's as upset as I've ever heard her in knowing her.
She was just crying and venting. She was frustrated. It's okay,
you don't have to apologize for anything. No, you don't apologize, Chrissy.
If I know this, I know, it's okay.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
You can do it to me. It's okay.
Speaker 7 (09:10):
The stress about this and just knowing that you have
another defeat coming, I know, can't even imagine what that's like.
It's I don't know, it's a really hard place to
be in and to hear somebody just desperate and you know,
in tears, just brutal, and you know, I think there's
(09:31):
probably some hope that, like this story is going to
change everything, and you know, kind of.
Speaker 9 (09:36):
Didn't I know exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 7 (09:46):
She's she said, I'm in desperation mode.
Speaker 13 (09:49):
What else is there?
Speaker 7 (09:49):
Someone else? We got to try something different. We're all
sitting here thinking, just scrambling and trying to do last
minute things. And is there is there a magic thing
to that was said that that will change their minds?
I mean, if you have any ideas about that, I
don't know. She said, Well, then we need a miracle.
We have to pray for a miracle and you know, well,
that's all well and good, but I'm just thinking there's
(10:10):
not gonna be any miracles in that f court building tomorrow. Man,
that has gone through the motions tomorrow is gonna suck. Yeah,
And just seeing people who are like hopeful and us
standing around knowing what's gonna happen should I'm feeling it now.
(10:36):
It's just this home court advantage that they have. They have,
it's all stacked in their favor and reason logic, the
right thing doesn't really matter.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
Winning matters.
Speaker 7 (10:50):
I can't distance myself from me like it should be,
just like, well, this is the story I'm reporting. It's
unfortunate for all the people are out like no, we're
in it, and I mean, I don't know what to do.
That's you know, we're still reporting on everything.
Speaker 10 (11:03):
But it's just how do you not feel this?
Speaker 15 (11:05):
Man?
Speaker 9 (11:05):
I just know what's wrong.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Hi.
Speaker 10 (11:10):
I'm Jason Flamm, CEO and founder of Lava for Good podcasts,
Home to Bone Valley, Wrongful Conviction, The War on Drugs,
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(11:34):
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Speaker 5 (11:46):
Bone Valley is sponsored by Stand Together. Stand Together is
a philanthropic community that partners with America's boldest change makers
to tackle the root causes of our country's biggest problems,
including the broken criminal justice system. Weldon Angelos is one
of those change makers. At the age of twenty three,
(12:07):
Weldon was arrested for a first time offense of selling
weed to a confidential informant. At the time, he was
a budding musician spending time with artists like Tupac Snoop Dogg, Pink,
and Gnase. His entire life was ahead of him when
he was sentenced to a mandatory fifty five years in
federal prison without the possibility of early release. After serving
(12:30):
thirteen years, a bipartisan effort led to him getting officially pardoned.
Upon his release, he founded The Weldon Project, a nonprofit
working to create better outcomes for those still in prison
that funds social change and provides financial aid for all
those who were still serving time for cannabis related offenses.
(12:52):
Weldon Angelos is one of the many entrepreneurs partnering with
Stand Together to drive solutions in education, healthcare, poverty, and
criminal justice. To learn more about the War on Drugs,
listen to the War on Drugs podcast on Apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your podcasts. The night before the hearing,
(13:16):
we had dinner reservations at a restaurant in Tallahassee with
Chrissy Ashley, her two baby boys, and some of their
close friends who had made the trek up to Tallahassee
to support them. The dinner was supposed to be about hope,
final chance to come together and center themselves for the
next day, but after the news from the meetings, the
mood was somber. Leo's best friend and bandmate, Kevin Herrick
(13:39):
his family showed up to be with Chrissy. They've known
Leo and Chrissy for decades. Kevin's sister Laurie led everyone
in prayer.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
We ask right now for comfort for Leo. We can't
even imagine Lord, what he's going through right now. I
pray that you surround him right now, this evening tomorrow
morning with people who love him, who can lift him
up and bring him comfort. And we ask that you
bring him comfort Lord, as we know only you can
(14:09):
do in times like this when we feel that you know,
everything is out of our control, but we know that
everything goes through your hands first. So we are accepting that.
We are, as Chrissy said, lifting our heads high, and
we are leaving this at the altar.
Speaker 15 (14:30):
High.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Shutters back, We're okay, We're okay, Yes we are, We're good.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
This is gonna work.
Speaker 15 (14:39):
You know.
Speaker 7 (14:39):
Those are the boys came in Leo's grandsons and just
like I wanted to hug from one of those kids,
I just wanted to hold those kids. So that was
for me.
Speaker 5 (14:49):
Yeah, you know, I definitely understand why so many people.
Speaker 7 (14:55):
Are religious in this world because if you have no
hope this and you got to believe in something and
this is it and it's happening right in front of me, and.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Uh, I'm all in.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
While we sat at dinner with Chrissy, Scott was sending
me messages. He was working to pull whatever strings he
could to trigger that epiphany. You know, Scott, also.
Speaker 7 (15:19):
Recognized that, you know, we need to rawther kitchen sink
at this and pull out all the stops everything, and
you know, we agreed we need Jonathan here.
Speaker 5 (15:29):
Senator Jonathan Martin had already told us that he thought
Leo was innocent and should not only be paroled, he
should be exonerated. He's also the chair of the Florida
Senate's Committee on Criminal Justice and has oversight of the
Florida Commission on a Fender Review. Those three appointed officials
who'd be making the decision to grant Leo parole or not.
(15:51):
His presence at the hearing might be Leo's last hope.
Speaker 7 (15:55):
If he could appear, you know, and with him and
Scott speaking together about this, I think that if that
could happen, that might be the Hail Mary pass. We
need something really powerful, something that was kind of like
a game changer, you know. Davidson talked about wanting to
have some kind of epiphany, and I said, that's what
(16:17):
we need, something so powerful that it's going to change
the vote.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
But this is the last week of the legislative session
in Tallahassee, and Senator Martin has to be present to vote,
So showing up at a parole hearing might not even
be possible.
Speaker 9 (16:32):
He had said early on, I'll do whatever I can
if I can, if I'm available. So I texted him
a couple of times. He wasn't responding to the text.
I didn't read anything negative into it. I just was like,
he's inundated, and I get it. You know, he's got
major responsibilities.
Speaker 16 (16:52):
Ah.
Speaker 5 (16:55):
I called him last night.
Speaker 9 (16:58):
Left a voicemail, and I left a pretty long text
was basically help, please help, because I was panicked. And
within fifteen minutes of that text, I got a text
from Jonathan very short, I'll be there at nine o'clock,
(17:19):
and then I had to text back that we're not
scheduled till ten, so then start panicking again.
Speaker 5 (17:29):
The next morning, Scott pulled into the parking lot for
the hearing. He didn't know whether or not Senator Martin
would really be there.
Speaker 9 (17:36):
He's pulling in right next to me. At the same time,
he goes, I'm gonna go sit in the front row.
See if that helps. You can't miss him. He's like
six seven six eight, That's what he did.
Speaker 5 (17:48):
Senator Martin promised to make an appearance, but with the
timing and a schedule, he might not be able to
stay until Leo's case was called, but he was promising
Scott he'd stay for as long as he could.
Speaker 15 (18:04):
I was sitting there and like the dread really hit me.
I was so aware of my blood pressure, like it
was just through the roof.
Speaker 7 (18:16):
And then the commissioner, the chair announced that we're going
to take a short three minute break and we're going
to come back and we're going to start with the
Schofield case, and we're going to do that one first.
And you could tell there was some buzz in the
crowd because everybody was there for Leo's case, and it
just made me think, all right, three minutes, that's the countdown, Okay,
(18:37):
keep ready.
Speaker 15 (18:40):
And then when the hearing actually started, seeing all of
our familiar faces around, and I don't know, I feel
like I was worried about you.
Speaker 7 (18:54):
I didn't even know what I was supposed to do
except sit there and just suffer. And that's that was
That was the hard part, just feeling like, well, I'm
just gonna be watching this and I know where it's going.
It's just gonna be painful, all right.
Speaker 16 (19:08):
I'll go ahead and use meaning to order for the
full commission is ten am. We're back on the record.
If everyone could please take your seat, if you are
not going to be speaking.
Speaker 15 (19:20):
Seeing the commissioners walk in and like you know, making
eye contact with them and knowing like that they know
what I'm thinking, and like I know what they're thinking,
and there's just like that recognition and I don't know
that that felt really intense. I felt I was like, oh,
why did we choose to sit in the front row.
I feel like very vulnerable and.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Exposed right now.
Speaker 7 (19:42):
Yeah, and I was thinking the same thing. I'm just
it's just a totally helpless feeling, like, you know, after
all we've done and everything, and it was just like
it's really difficult to sit there and like maintain any
kind of hope.
Speaker 16 (19:55):
So we're now in the full portion of the doc
who we're all three commissioners will be voting. East Side
gets ten minutes in which to make your presentation. We'll
start with the supporters, followed by anyone in opposition the
investigators recommending an extension. And this is on the leoscope
okase id to number thirty one on page sixteen, and I.
Speaker 15 (20:14):
Just made.
Speaker 7 (20:17):
At that point I see Scott move towards the podium.
I see Jonathan sitting at the front table, and I
just remember thinking, they know it's desperation time, they know
where things stand, and so they're not going to hold
anything back. And I just had that feeling that it
was just going to be not your typical parole hearing.
Speaker 12 (20:41):
Good morning, commissioners.
Speaker 13 (20:42):
Thank you.
Speaker 12 (20:44):
My name is Scott Cupp. I'm an attorney representing Leo Schofield, obviously,
but there's many, many other attorneys. A lot of them
are here today, and I would just like to mention
them briefly.
Speaker 7 (20:55):
I was facing his back. I couldn't see his eyes,
but I was watching commissioners and there was like this anticipation.
I could sort of see it in their eyes through me.
Speaker 12 (21:06):
The first thing I would like you to hear from
is a letter written by Jesse Sam who's Michelle Schofield's brother.
It was written for the last parole hearing, which was
in twenty twenty. For some reason, and maybe the state
will tell us here today, it was not read. I
(21:26):
have no idea why it wasn't read. I think it
was part of the record, but I want to read
it now. Make it part of the record. January two,
twenty twenty in reference to Leo R. Schofield prole hearing
one eight twenty. To whom it may concern, I'm not
going to attend the prole hearing of Leo R. Schofield. However,
I do ask you to read this letter and take
my comments into consideration as you make a decision about
(21:48):
granting Leo parole. I was sixteen at the time of
my sister's murder. I never knew the details of the case.
Because of my age, I had assumed the detectives and
the state involved had substantial evidence beyond a shadow of
a doubt to convict Leoschofield first degree murder. Over the years,
I've done some research and have found many inconsistencies and
(22:09):
discrepancies in the investigation and the trial. These have led
to many questions about the state's handling of my sister's murder.
I'm not one hundred percent convinced Leo is guilty of
this crime. In fact, for my research, he could be innocent.
It just seems likely you got the wrong guy. I
do not have confidence in the conviction of Leoschofield, and
(22:30):
I support his request for parole. Thank you, Jesse Song.
At this time I would like to have Senator Jonathan
Martin speak.
Speaker 7 (22:42):
And then Jonathan Rose. And you know when he stands
up at the podium, it looks like the podium's up
to his waist and he's just staring at the commissioners intensely.
Speaker 13 (22:53):
Good morning.
Speaker 11 (22:53):
My name is Jonathan Martin. I've known Scott cup for
many years. I met him when I was a prosecutor.
I've handled Holmes cases. Everything that I've seen about this
case turns my stomach. I don't know why Leo Schofield
wasn't released years ago when he was before this board.
(23:20):
You have the opportunity to release him immediately. He wasn't
released last time because he wasn't remorseful. You cannot be
remorseful for something you did not do. It's not your
job to determine guilt or innocence. But if you are
going to consider whether somebody is remorseful and whether they
should be released today or should have been released years ago,
(23:43):
you have to at least crack the transcript. You have
to at least wonder why the fingerprints of a serial
killer were inside Michelle's car and we're never tested, and
we're never presented to the jury. In Polk County over
thirty years ago. I was five years old when Leos
Goofield started doing time for this murder. I stand by
(24:10):
the criminal justice system here in the state of Florida.
We're one of the best on the planet. But there's
a whole lot of doubt right now about how good
we are. You guys, have the chance today to fix that.
You have the chance to restore credibility to a system
that thousands of people.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Know.
Speaker 11 (24:30):
An injustice happened, and it's continuing every single second. The
Leoscofield remains behind bars.
Speaker 13 (24:39):
Thank you.
Speaker 12 (24:45):
Next, I'd like to read a portion of Leo's statement
in his pearl packet that you all have, but I
just like the highlight of part of it.
Speaker 7 (24:54):
Leo's letter I thought was really beautiful, really powerful.
Speaker 12 (24:58):
First, I understand the par is not based upon guilt
or innocence, but solely a function of grace from this commission.
Having shared that, I must say he.
Speaker 7 (25:08):
Talked about why he can't show remorse, and he talked
about the deals he'd been given to get out of
prison and the fact that he stood on his innocence
it worked against him.
Speaker 12 (25:20):
Ask only that you consider the fact that I have
stood on my innocence in the face of plea agreements
that would have allowed me to go home many years
ago without parole or even probation, a fact of the
record that is known by the state.
Speaker 7 (25:35):
And I do believe that Leo's words made a difference
in there. If it's submitted to them, maybe they read it,
maybe they don't. Maybe they think, oh, all these letters
are the same, and they skim it. But Scott was saying,
you're not going to skim this. I'm going to tell
you what he said, and it's important that you know.
Speaker 12 (25:50):
This of innocence he or she does not actually possess
in hopes of convincing a commission that doesn't weigh guilt
or innocence to let them go based upon that innocence.
That simply does not make sense. The only right conclusion
that can be arrived at with my situation is that
I am forced to maintain my innocence simply because I'm
(26:11):
actually and factually innocent. Leo Schofield innocent, innocent innocence. That's
been an elephant in the room for way too long.
It was the elephant in the room in twenty twelve.
(26:32):
It was the elephant in the room. In twenty fifteen,
it was the elephant in the room. In twenty twenty,
we'll look around. The elephant's gone. Okay, it's out there.
He is innocent. What I'm asking you to do is
to search your heart. This isn't difficult. I think you
(26:56):
all know what's gone on hereveral of you I believe
know he is in fact innocent. One of the things
that disturbed me in our meetings was the issue that
guilt and innocence is not in our purview. It should
always be in our purview. I don't care find a
way to make it part of your purview. This man
(27:16):
does not deserve one more night in prison. He's been
in there for thirty five years. I suspect you're going
to hear from the state from another of the victims.
I do not disparage anything that any of them might say.
I just hope you keep it into perspective. He's been
grieving for thirty five years with the added thing of
(27:38):
giving up his life for something he didn't do. He
grieves every single day for Michelle Schofield. Please, I implore
you do not extend him two years for yet another program.
Send him to the Noah's House and do it now.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 16 (27:57):
Thank you everyone for being here. I know some of
you travel great distance, so thank you. I'm not going
to now move to opposition if.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
You would like to speak now.
Speaker 7 (28:05):
It was the state's turn to make its case. We
weren't sure if someone from the State Attorney's office would
even show up, but they did send a representative, Assistant
State Attorney Jacob Or.
Speaker 5 (28:17):
I've written or over the years. He handles the office's
pr but he's not the face we were expecting. He
doesn't have the kind of history or emotional connection to
Leo's case that Jerry Hill and Victoria Avalon have.
Speaker 16 (28:31):
You can rest oar six now morning, mister Oregon.
Speaker 17 (28:35):
Thank you commissioners again. My name is Jacob Or. I'm
an assistant state attorney in the Tenth Circuit. We just
heard a lot of talk about justice and what is justice.
I became a prosecutor fifteen years ago, and in that
time I have learned that you cannot pursue justice unless
you first pursue truth. In this case, That's what the
(28:57):
court systems have been doing for me many years.
Speaker 13 (29:01):
I've told others.
Speaker 17 (29:02):
I think this is the most reviewed case in the
history of Polk County, and I really don't know if
that's true, but I think it might be because we've
looked at this, we've litigated this, and every time we
go to court, we relitigate and we re review the
case based on the actual transcripts and the actual available evidence,
and every one of those reviews results in the same
(29:22):
outcome that there's overwhelming evidence in support of the guilty
verdict that was handed down many years ago. But that's
not really why y'all are here today. You're here today
to decide if this inmate is going to get out
of jail. And I won't go too much in detail
into the facts of the case because I know you've
(29:42):
heard some of them before, and you know there was
a heinous murder committed. But you got to compare that
with what has been a long time of being a
very good inmate. I'm telling you about truth, and I
think we need to recognize the fact that he's been
a very good inmate. But you know, the law doesn't
allow being a good inmate alone. To allow for release,
(30:03):
You've got to do some determination of what risk is
posed to the public and how he will conduct himself
if he gets out, and I know you've got some guidelines.
I'll help you with that, but that's going to be
a challenge for you. I think in this case, even
the victim's family appears to be split on whether or
not he should be out. And I think you're going
to hear from someone in a moment. And to ask
(30:25):
this from me from the State Attorney's office on behalf
of the state of Florida, is that you'd treat this
inmate the same as any other, that you would do
an honest review of the record, apply your guidelines and
then make your decision. And if you'll do it that
way and ignore all the show that's going on along
with it, and just do an honest review of this record,
(30:48):
then I think you'll make a just decision. I want
to yield whatever time I have left.
Speaker 7 (30:54):
Two And then they mentioned that at the end of
his presentation, which was pretty short, it was only a
couple of minutes, they mentioned that they had somebody from
the family, and that someone turned out to be Michelle's
other brother, Ricky Som.
Speaker 16 (31:09):
Thank you very much, all right? Do we have the
victim online? Mister Som? I don't know if you can
hear me, but you just pressed our six to get through.
Speaker 13 (31:18):
I'm here, Yes, go ahead, Okay. So I'm Ricky Song,
I'm I guess I'm the brother of this sister that
was killed, basically, and I just want to say that.
Speaker 18 (31:39):
A lot of people have, let's just say, distorted the
truth of this case and that I was there.
Speaker 13 (31:49):
I was a kid. My brother might write in and
say that he was too young to understand anything. I
was the older brother. I was not too young to
not understand everything. So there's a lot of miss We'll say,
there's a lot of misinformation from this twenty twenty TV show,
and a lot of the things that Leo and his
family have said have definitely been not truth. It's their truth,
(32:15):
and that's okay. But at the end of the day,
Leo did not come to my house and talk to
my dad that night. Leo did not this, Leo did
not do a lot of those things because I was there,
I lived it. I know where my sister was. You know,
some people have asked me, you know, did Leo kill
my sister? And you know, I believe in God and
(32:37):
I believe in the courts, and the courts got it right,
and at the end of the day, you know, if
Leo has to sit in prison for forty five years
or fifty.
Speaker 18 (32:45):
Years because he tortured my sister, he mentally tortured her,
he violently tortured her, at the end.
Speaker 13 (32:56):
Of the day, he should stay in jail for the
rest of life period, regardless of where this case, what
the case is pending on right now at this moment.
But from my point of view is that this isn't
very emotional to me. It's mostly justice for someone that
deserves it, and I believe that the court's got a right.
(33:18):
I mean, I'll get off the phone and let you
guys finish up. Sorry for taking every time.
Speaker 16 (33:23):
We appreciate you calling in. Thank you for your input.
All right, anyone else in opposition wishing to speak?
Speaker 15 (33:34):
All right?
Speaker 16 (33:35):
Hearing notta, we will proceed with the vote, starting with
Commissioner Davison.
Speaker 19 (33:39):
Yes, in the matter of Leo Schofield. I've had the
opportunity to review this case, and it's entirety. I listened
very very closely to the testimony, both in support and opposition.
Speaker 15 (33:51):
I've had a.
Speaker 19 (33:52):
Series of meetings prior to today. I've listened to certain
documentary items that have been put together on behalf of Mississcofield.
I've reviewed documents.
Speaker 13 (34:06):
That are.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
Commissioner Davison was the first to announce his decision. He
recommended that Leo Bi transferred to Everglade's correctional to participate
in the lifer's program for twenty four months two years
at another prison before he'd be eligible for parole again.
Speaker 19 (34:27):
Is to agree with the commission Investigator. I have a
twenty four month extension based upon good cause and exceptional
circumstance to allow the offender to complete programs that contain
self betterment and transitional components. I would set a new
ppr D at June twenty four five, and.
Speaker 7 (34:46):
So they would reestablish his parole for two years. And
it's exactly what he told us at our meeting, and
after listening to all that, it was pretty clear he
just had not changed his opinion.
Speaker 15 (34:58):
At all, hearing that nothing that had been said before
him had changed his mind. I mean, I thought it
was done right then and there.
Speaker 20 (35:09):
Thank you, Commissioner Wyatt, thank you, ma'am, thank you all
for your testimony here today and to echo the words
of Commissioner Davis and I to have reviewed this case
in its entirety and had several meetings regarding the case
of mister Schofield.
Speaker 7 (35:22):
Commissioner Wyant went next, and then he was recommending eighteen months,
so he brought it down from two years to a
year and a half.
Speaker 20 (35:30):
I also note that mister Schofield has had a clean
record as it relates to dr for many years and
has accomplished some things while in prison. My concern is
to make sure he is ready to go if given
the opportunity, so I believe that he also needs some
further program participation. I agree with the FIUCTP program referral.
(35:51):
I have an eighteen month extension rather than twenty four
based on the good cause and exceptional circumstances, and that
being the participation.
Speaker 7 (36:01):
And then the Chair Commissioner kuon Rod, she went next,
but by this point it was kind of over, but
at least there was the It went from twenty four
months to eighteen months. That was something different. And then
Commissioner kuon Ron and her response and decision was really nuanced.
Speaker 16 (36:22):
I'd like to say that our role is not to
determine guilt or innocence. I know that's the subject of
a lot of people right now. I reviewed all the records,
and I can tell you that I think the State
Attorney's Office with the tenth Judicial Circuit has done their job.
They reviewed the evidence and they made the call based
on the evidence that they received. The fact is that
(36:46):
mister Schofield has been tried by a jury of his tears,
and his conviction has been upheld by numerous courts, and
that's what we as commissioners are facing, and we have
to respect what has been done in the court system. However,
our job is to look at a person's overall record
and determine whether or not they are suitable for parole,
(37:08):
whether they pose a risk to society, and whether or
not they have a good transitional program so that they
can be successful. My vote is to parole.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
Commissioner koon Rod votes for parole. She supports Scott Cupp's
request for Leo's immediate release to a halfway house, but.
Speaker 16 (37:28):
The two commissioners have agreed to extend. I would to
avoid a three way split. I would move to Commissioner
Wyant's eighteen month extension, and I would ask if either
commissioner would consider a one year next interview.
Speaker 20 (37:44):
Days I'm sure it and look in this case, if
you feel comfortable, I would acquiesk to a twelve month
extension rather than eighteen. I just like I said, he's
been in a long time and he's going to need
program aiming to be successful. I understand and support as overwhelming,
and that's important in my decision. But I believe he
(38:06):
does need some time in the CTPFIU program to prepare him.
So if you're willing to actu as, I would move
down to one year in the program with an effect
of March twenty four.
Speaker 5 (38:19):
And very quickly.
Speaker 7 (38:21):
Right away, Commissioner Wyant said, I accept that, and so
it went to twelve months.
Speaker 16 (38:28):
I will move to that position. And I agree with
the referral to the CTP program. And I also just
want to make one more comment. I've spoken with a
lot of people in this case, including Jerry Hill, and
I have to say I've known him for a long time.
He's an honorable man. He is a man of great integrity,
and he represents the ten Circuit well and I respect
(38:52):
his opinion. I value his opinion. I spoke to him
about this case before I came to my decision, and
I spoke with the current state attorney. I think everybody's
doing their job, and I just wanted to put that
on the record. So our final decision is to move
mister Schofield's case to June twenty four, twenty twenty four,
with a next interview date of March twenty four, and
(39:15):
referral to the ctp FIU program at Everglade's ci And
thank you everyone for taking your time to be here.
We appreciate it.
Speaker 15 (39:35):
I I just needed to step outside for a number two.
Speaker 5 (39:42):
After the decision, Chrissy, Ashley, Scott Copp, Senator Martin, everyone
who showed up to support Leo, we all left the
hearing room and walked outside. Chrissy and Ashley were crying
and being comforted by friends and family. There was anger
and frustration and concerns about how Leo would take the news.
Speaker 8 (40:04):
You can't trust that.
Speaker 7 (40:07):
How do you think your dad's gonna respond to the news? O.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
This is not gonna be This is not gonna be
a good thing.
Speaker 5 (40:20):
When we went outside, we also talked to some parolees.
They'd shown up to support some of the other people
who were up for parole that day, but after Leo's decision,
they saw that people were upset and they came over
to talk to us.
Speaker 21 (40:34):
If you got that was your.
Speaker 7 (40:35):
Decision, and you got twelve months.
Speaker 21 (40:37):
If I got this decision, I'll be static. I have
guys that friends that have been out fifty years or
forty seven years. Anybody will pay you when the life scends.
Getting that program, you can't get no better. My name
is Gregory bullet Ard.
Speaker 19 (40:50):
Appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
Plus did we send to that program.
Speaker 5 (40:54):
There was no immediate consensus about what had happened in
that hearing room and what it meant and how to
feel about it. It wasn't the scenario Leo's friends and
family had been hoping for, but it wasn't the worst
case scenario either. Everyone seemed to be moving through waves
of varying emotions.
Speaker 7 (41:13):
But I didn't know I did.
Speaker 5 (41:14):
I didn't know Johnathan was gonna I'm glad he did.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
But Jonathan was going to come and speak like that.
Speaker 13 (41:20):
He was great.
Speaker 12 (41:21):
Didn't take that.
Speaker 9 (41:21):
Oh that was tremendous.
Speaker 6 (41:22):
So yeah, let me ask you to answer your question.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
I think I was outraged. And then when she said
what she said, and I'm.
Speaker 12 (41:28):
Like, I thought she was going to backpeddle there for
a minute.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
Yeah, I was gonna I was like, what the heck's happening?
Speaker 1 (41:35):
And then when he went down, my whole, my whole
thought just shifted.
Speaker 6 (41:42):
I think I'm not trying to put I'm not trying
to put like a good spin on it make everyone
feel better. But they conceded that he's been great. It
made it's the first time they've done that. They didn't
talk about the facts of the case. It Oh, it's
the first time they've done that. So I think it's
a lot of important steps in the right direction to
put him on the Clyde path if everything goes well.
Speaker 5 (42:02):
To It was also, in many ways, a reunion of sorts.
All these people who'd worked on Leo's case through its
various stages across three and a half decades were standing
together sharing the moment. Don Morris, Richard Bartman, Pat McKenna,
Seth Miller. Familiar faces were everywhere. Some were reconnecting for
(42:26):
the first time in years.
Speaker 6 (42:29):
You know, like it's like you're talking the team back
together again. You always had crazy.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Getting crazier. I like it.
Speaker 6 (42:37):
I like, the last time we're altogether in front of judge.
Speaker 22 (42:44):
Yeah, the last time thirteen years ago, something like that,
ten or.
Speaker 5 (42:49):
Nine and among the familiar faces, there were new faces too,
talking to Gilbert just.
Speaker 15 (43:01):
A listener and support our Yeah, it's I feel like
it's better than nothing.
Speaker 5 (43:17):
Everyone seemed to gather around the attorneys who knew Leo's
case best and who knew how to put what just
happened into context.
Speaker 22 (43:26):
I mean, he never got anything before today. They never
they had their footspin on the guests for thirty five years.
So the idea that somebody would come in and not
just flash autopsy pictures, which is what they've been doing
for all these reviews, and that kind of argument is
(43:49):
a testament to what you and Kelsey did. It's a
testament to what Scott has done all these years. It's
a testament to what Seth did, all the people that
have worked on the case. But I mean you and
got us to this point that that brought the kind
of attention, that got their attention, that got the whole
world's attention, that brought pressure to bear, and now he's
(44:13):
got a shot at release, which he never had before.
I mean, he's never had anything to look forward to.
Speaker 7 (44:20):
Nothing.
Speaker 22 (44:20):
I mean they've slammed doors in his face. The courts
have done it, the parole boards have done it like
Seth saying, this is the first time anybody did anything
other than this say screw you, which is thirty five years.
What's what we've been hearing so well, it's not what
(44:41):
everybody wants, and it's not what should have been done,
and it's not ultimately justice, it's.
Speaker 10 (44:46):
It's it's a.
Speaker 22 (44:48):
Step he's never received before. And from what's set saying it,
you know, it looks pretty good where he's going, the
program he's going. You know, maybe next year we're in
a place we want to be.
Speaker 5 (45:08):
Over the course of an hour or so, the collective
mood was beginning to shift. Leo's grandsons were running around
barefoot in the grass. Heels were kicked off and ties removed.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
So I can't tell you if I'm excited or not.
Speaker 16 (45:25):
You know, by I'm excited about this is one of
the next stepping stones from getting out.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
But we're not going to stop here.
Speaker 15 (45:31):
We're hoping to push for exoneration for sure.
Speaker 5 (45:34):
So slowly the reasons for hope and gratitude began to
accumulate their Senator Jonathan Martin, who used his authority as
an elected representative to speak about injustice and innocence. His
speech was a departure from the usual statements heard in
parole hearings. The state's approach was different this time. There
(45:59):
was no pounding on the podium, no autopsy photos, no
comments about Leo's lack of remorse. Instead, Jacob Orr pointed
to court rulings and procedures. He even referred to the
heinous murder of Michelle Schofield without saying exactly who was
responsible for the crime, and he acknowledged Leo's outstanding record
(46:22):
of his time in prison. One of the commissioners actually
voted for parole. Commissioner Kunrod was prepared to send Leo
directly to a halfway house, something that we've been told
never happens. And Commissioner Wyant, the former Polk County cop
we'd completely written off. He could have easily agreed to
(46:44):
Davison's twenty four month recommendation, but by deciding on eighteen
months instead, he opened the conversation to compromise, and he
agreed to reducing the recommendation to twelve months. And really
it might not even be twelve full months. Leo's parole
process will begin again in March of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
It was outrage and then disappointment, and then confusion and
then release.
Speaker 13 (47:16):
Take a picture ish.
Speaker 7 (47:18):
Yeah, so okay, but then some of the other well,
technically this was a denial of parole. There were signs
if you look closely, something has changed. We all began
to recognize it. Leo won't be released tomorrow. But for
the first time, the very first time, there's an end insight.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
I you know, I'm.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
It's like weird because I'm like happy, but I'm not happy,
but I'm I'm happy. It could have been much worse.
It could have been much worse.
Speaker 5 (47:55):
While we were all standing out there, Chrissy was able
to get on the phone with She asked for privacy
and stepped away to deliver the news.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
I wanted to be the first one to tell him,
and long story short, I was able to talk to him.
I told him what happened, and uh, he said, it's
nothing but a meatball. We're gonna put gas in the motorcycle,
keep it running. We got this, And then we got this. Yeah,
(48:33):
nothing about a meatball.
Speaker 15 (48:34):
We got this.
Speaker 3 (48:36):
There's a lot of work, a lot of.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
A lot of things at the eleventh hour, right, I
think all those prayers worked. Yeah, we just have to
keep gassing the motorcycle.
Speaker 10 (48:57):
Right.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
Yes, this is not what we wanted, but this is
what we have, and this is what we're gonna do.
Speaker 3 (49:05):
Right, shoulders, shoulders, back, head, Hi, We're gonna do it.
Speaker 19 (49:11):
Rita, rita, Lourie.
Speaker 8 (49:17):
I spoke to Leo.
Speaker 3 (49:17):
He's cool, he's good, he's good.
Speaker 19 (49:25):
He said, you'll love this, Lourie.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
He said nothing. I'm better meet while just keep gassing
that motorcycle.
Speaker 3 (49:37):
Yeah, baby, bring it on.
Speaker 5 (49:47):
After the hearing, Kelsey and I returned to our Tallahassee
airbnb along with our producers Karra and Britt to get
started on this episode. We worked through the afternoon and
evening and into the night, never straying too far from
the phone. We were anticipating a call from Leo, but
it wasn't until the next morning when he was able
(50:07):
to call. I just have a quick question for you,
because we talked to Chrissy right after she talked to you,
and she was smiling and beaming, and she said, Leo
said this is a meatball, and we didn't quite understand that.
Speaker 19 (50:20):
What does that mean?
Speaker 23 (50:21):
A meatball? Yeah, that's my little sarcastic way of saying
this is we can handle this. We've we've been up
against much, much bigger giants, and this is not I
really wanted her rather than her see this as a hurdle.
You know it will become The Paro Commission has really
(50:43):
changed that part of the narrative for me. It's no
longer a hurdle. This is I think the message they
were sending to us is that we care and we
want you to succeed, and this is the way we
think that you succeed best. And so I told Chrissy,
I said, an all a hard thing we've had to
do in the thirty five years we've been in here.
This is a meatball.
Speaker 13 (51:04):
We got this.
Speaker 23 (51:05):
It's no problem at all. We're going to be able
to do this. She was obviously a little emotional, a
lot emotional. It was hard for me to read her
voice right away. You know, I'm pretty good at being
able to detect in her voice whether something is good
or bad. And you know, she was so emotional yesterday
that I wasn't really sure if it was good or bad.
(51:28):
But she said to me, I'm wanting to listen to
the end, and that's always a warning that there's going
to be something in between. Now in the end that
I might not like, but I needed to get to
the end before I could really weigh it, so I did.
I just remained quiet, and she kind of broke it
down to me, step by step everything that happened.
Speaker 4 (51:49):
And.
Speaker 23 (51:51):
Basically told me that, you know, we were going to
end up going Eviglades instead of the halfway House. My
first inclination. Because she was so emotional and I could
hear the kids in the background, I knew that no
matter what I was feeling at the time, I just
I had to make sure that everybody there was all right.
I had to make sure my wife was all right.
(52:12):
And so I wanted her to know that I'm okay,
and I want everybody to know that I'm okay. When
when when mister Orr was given an opportunity to speak,
you know, for the state, there wasn't any more of
this lambastic assassination of my character. Accusations that were you know,
(52:33):
flown around in previous hearings and and basically you know,
telling the commission, we want you to treat them as
you would any other inmate and stuff. I can live
with that, and I can appreciate that, you know, because
I cannot tell you what damage it does to my
heart to hear that stuff and even known it's not true,
(52:53):
even though and the people who are on my you know,
support system, know that it's not true. Just for them
having to suffer through that and hear that, the embarrassment
of it, it's almost too much to take in. And
I was so nervous about that part of it. I
was just terribly fearful of what, you know, maybe Gerry
(53:13):
Hill's going to do avalon whoever else they signed up there,
and I just did not want to hear that, and
I didn't want anybody else to have to hear that,
because it's devastating. And you know, that not happening yesterday
to me personally, was liberating in and of itself. It
(53:35):
was kind of like a signal saying, you know what
we're going to We're going to give them an opportunity
to get home. And then the musing of the commission itself,
you know, where they start off with twenty four months
and end up at twelve with the comeback, and you know,
essentially nine nine months is not that far. Two years
(53:55):
would have been too long. I think we came away
from that just about as well as we could have
had hoped, you know, aside from not wanting aside from
wanting to go to the halfway house, and that would
have been great. This is a really really positive thing.
Speaker 13 (54:10):
You know.
Speaker 23 (54:11):
I've got a lot of people who've wrote to me
over the the last twenty four hours, and a lot
of them are angry, a lot of them are expressing sorrow,
and you know, I totally appreciate that, but I want
them to see the good in it. If it was
not for the support, if it was not for the
work of the podcast that you have done, Kelsey has done,
you know, Team Leo, you know, we wouldn't be here.
(54:32):
And this was a very big victory for me. And
I want them to be able to see the sense
of accomplishment that we've all been able to, you know,
put together by believing in the truth, standing for the truth,
praying for the truth, and coming together and convincing people
of that same truth. We've been walking in a tunnel
(54:52):
in utter darkness for thirty five years and well, I
mean not being able to see two feet in front
of ours face, just putting one foot in front of
the other, going forward, hopefully we're going forward, not really knowing,
just believing and trusting. We have never had a light
at the end of this tunnel. Ever, yesterday a big,
(55:14):
bright light was lit. We can see it. It's at
the end of nine months and it's solid. And now
without you know, the real opposition from the state and
me being able to go to this program in nine months,
you know, there's no reason why we won't be paroled.
(55:35):
And so that's a very positive thing. And nine months
is going to go by really really fast, especially for me.
This is really more for the pro commissioners. They are
rightly wanting to be comfortable about their decision, and it's
my job to go down there and make sure they
know it's going to be okay. We're all going to
(55:56):
be okay when this is over with. So, you know,
nine months at an institution that's an incentivized camp number one,
so they have no troublemakers there at all. You get
in any trouble at ever grade, you're on the next
bus leaving. So you're going to be surrounded by men
who would all like mine, are trying to do the
same thing. They're all trying to get out of prison.
And here's another caveat to this that I just realized
(56:19):
This is very important. Going through that program allows me
immediate access back into the prisons for other inmates, because
that's part of their program. Part of the FIU program
is to give back to the prison population. That is
exactly what I would want to do if the only
way that could happen with me being convicted felon on
(56:41):
the other side with parole, the only way to get
back in to help my brothers in here is to
go through that program. I gladly go through nine months
of that. So, you know, going down there for nine
months and being able to do this program and getting
the ability to come back and help others that are
on the same path, that's very very important to me.
(57:02):
I'm really feeling good and and I'm very very gratified
by yesterday's results, and I want that to be conveyed
to the many supporters that we have so they can
feel good about it as well. Here's my fear that
you know, my story fades into the history books now,
(57:23):
you know, the next new thing comes up, and you know,
I begin fading away. I can do the nine months.
What I'm asking from the supporters that I've got is
that it just helped me get there. You know when
this journey hasn't ended yet. I got to get to
March of next year. I got to do it at
a prison where I've never been, you know, with people
(57:44):
that I don't know. I don't know anymore, and I
still want to fight for exoneration. I still want to
fight from my freedom because I am innocent being parolled.
It's just a means to an end. It's not the
end if it was not for you and the podcast
(58:05):
and all the people have put that together and the
millions of people that have supported it. You know, you
became my watchdog, and you know, and that's tremendous. Jacob Orr,
Brian Hass. These people weren't here when this story was
created back long ago. I'm talking about nineteen eighty nine,
and you know, in the trial and all of that stuff,
(58:28):
they weren't involved in that. So I like to think
that maybe maybe the podcast, maybe the exposure to this
stuff gave them reason to maybe go back and look
at it themselves. I'd like to think that they have
heart and you know, and give them some credit for it,
because I think I told you this before. I want
to make this to where everybody can come out feeling
(58:48):
all right about who they are, you know, even Jeremy,
and especially Jeremy, because at the end of the day,
nothing we do or say is going to bring my
life back and and and in her memory, I really
want everybody to be all right with where we are
and where we go from here. And and so I
(59:09):
want everybody, including the state, to be able to walk
away from this and be okay, be okay with their
part in it and knowing that they are better human
beings for it. And that's my hope. And it might
be naive to think that way. I think that's possible now.
It was impossible before Bong Valley. And that's just how
(59:31):
profound this podcast has been. And I can't even begin
to tell you how grateful I am to you, to Kelsey. Somehow,
she has a connection in my heart and I can't
even talk to that girl without breaking down crying. But
from the beginning, from the very beginning, the first time
we met, I just could see it in her eyes
as she connected to this in a real heartfelt way.
(59:55):
And this meant everything to me.
Speaker 18 (59:59):
And so you know, here we are.
Speaker 23 (01:00:01):
It's four years and changed later, and I'm now nine
months away from getting home and to me, that's just amazing.
I can't thank you enough for that. I want to
make sure you thank.
Speaker 13 (01:00:14):
Her for it.
Speaker 8 (01:00:15):
Leo, Oh my gosh. I like I know you can
hear it in my voice. I cannot compose myself. I'm
just sitting here like listening to you and just crying.
I mean, you know way better than anyone that this
has been a roller coaster these past couple of days,
and there's just been so many emotions. I know it's
(01:00:36):
a whole process and we're all gonna have to process this,
and you especially, but I really, like, you know, woke
up feeling really really good about this today, and like
I'm really excited for you, Like I feel like, I mean,
I'm excited you know that you're going to be going
to this program, and I'm also really excited for like
(01:00:58):
all of the people gonna meet there that are gonna
have the opportunity to meet you and spend time with you.
And I know, like a big part of this program
is like the FIU students, and I'm thinking about that
as like, you know, young people I identify with that,
and like how much working on your story and hearing
from you and knowing you has changed my life, and
(01:01:20):
there's gonna be like this whole new, you know, group
of kids who are gonna now get that chance to
like really get to know you, and you're gonna change
their lives. And I'm that I'm so excited for that.
I don't know, I'm a mess. I'm like, I'm snotty
over here, but like I just it's just it's just
meant so much to me, and I just, you know,
(01:01:41):
I I think like nine months is, yeah, that time's
gonna go by fast, and you're gonna hopefully, you know,
be able to connect with a bunch of new people.
And then nine months from now, Team Leo is gonna
be like even bigger and more robust, and you know,
we are all going to be there for you when
(01:02:02):
you know, you get out for real. And I'm excited
for that.
Speaker 23 (01:02:06):
Well, if you guys are willing to do this nine
months with me, I'm willing to go down there and
oh my gosh, absolutely.
Speaker 7 (01:02:12):
We're not going anywhere, and I just want I just
wanted you to know that. And you know, we think
about you all the time, and.
Speaker 5 (01:02:20):
So great to hear your voice and hear you feeling optimistic.
Speaker 23 (01:02:23):
Thank you, Thank you both I love you guys, and
we'll talk again soon, right, Yeah, absolutely you guys rest
before you come home.
Speaker 13 (01:02:33):
Yeah, I love you.
Speaker 23 (01:02:34):
You are beautiful. Thank you so much for all you've done.
You guys are the masters. Will love you, Gilbert, take care, buddy,
Love you too.
Speaker 15 (01:02:44):
All.
Speaker 7 (01:02:45):
Bye bye
One of the questions I'm always asked is how do
I get through this? And it's really tough, and you
feel it, it hurts, and then you put your shoulders back,
you put your head up, you'll hug your friends and
your family, and you just keep going. So as you
know that commissioners decide what's gonna happen, and then there's
(00:31):
always this plan to send letters and to talk to
them and kind of get a feel for where they're going.
And last time we did that, we were so helpful.
The night before we thought, oh, this is it, so
hopeful and it turned out really crappy. So tonight, based
on some of the information, we're not so hopeful. So
(00:54):
we're gonna let Laurie say that prayer and we're gonna
just keep going. Okay, Lisa, can you come over so
we can all kind of be close.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Dear Heavenly Father, we ask Lord to do only what
you can do that you would bring us the outcome
that we want. We ask that you would speak with
the people on this board who are gonna make this
life altering decision for Leo and Chrissy. We ask Lord
that you would speak to their hearts, that you would
(01:32):
give them that, knowing in the bottom of their soul
that they would be doing the right thing by granting
him parole. We just ask and pray, and we are
begging on our knees that it is the outcome that
we so desire. We love you, Lord, we praise you,
and we pray this in your son Christ's name. Amen.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Amen, do you hear my mins?
Speaker 4 (02:08):
I have to hide my feelings, saw rustp sorry lists.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
In this valley.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
I wanna see ralation o, my long water rich das rash,
to the one who's holding the star, to the one solding.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Stop, to the warm holding the sort.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
This is a special bonus episode of Bone Valley. The
day before Leo's parole hearing, Scott Kup and I had
one last chance to meet with the commissioners who would
decide if Leo was going to be granted parole. Going
into these meetings, we had some insight about where the
commissioners might stand. The commission's chair, Melinda Kunrod, had been
(03:33):
asking Leo's lawyers questions that seemed to indicate she believes
in Leo's innocence. The second Commissioner, David Wyant, is a
former police officer from Polk County. We heard he'd had
a close relationship with the former state Attorney Jerry Hill,
and he'd be the commissioner least receptive toward granting Leo parole.
(03:53):
That left Commissioner Richard Davison the third vote, the wild card,
the one who would probably passed the tie breaking vote
in determining Leo's fate. So we came to Tallahassee for
a meeting with Davison just twenty four hours before the
official ruling would be made at Leo's May third parole hearing.
(04:14):
Kelsey was outside waiting for me and Scott when we
walked out of.
Speaker 6 (04:17):
The meeting.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
The car.
Speaker 7 (04:21):
No, it's really bad and he's not gonna talk right now.
Speaker 8 (04:23):
I can't.
Speaker 7 (04:25):
I'm sorry, fucking disaster. He's been talking to the tenth
and went over and he said, I've listened to both
sides now and I'm just not convinced he's innocent. And
I'm going to vote for twenty four months at Everglades
and he says, maybe they'll be an epiphany tomorrow, but
(04:46):
that's the way I'm voting. He started talking to me
about bloodstains, and it's just fucking very clear that the
state is talking to him and giving him all sorts
of bullshit about the evidence.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
He goes, where's the blood.
Speaker 7 (04:57):
There's no blood.
Speaker 5 (04:59):
Where's the blood at the canal?
Speaker 9 (05:00):
I was like, it's fucking there.
Speaker 7 (05:00):
You want to see the picture.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
FDL says it in the transcript, that's where her blood is.
Speaker 7 (05:06):
And he's arguing that shit with me, and I just
you know, he said, this is not about guilt or
innocence anyway, but he says, I'm a creature of the system,
and I have to believe that what the courts have
sucided is correct, and the courts are saying he's guilty.
And he said, I didn't hear one thing in your
podcast that was inaccurate to me. Okay, well, then you
(05:27):
know he's innocent. What I just never forget the words
he said, I'm a creature of the system the courts
have ruled, and he's not willing to acknowledge that there
are mistakes made, which you know, he did write the
report to give clemency to the Groven Force, so he
knows that mistakes are made and just won't do it.
(05:49):
And you know, I mean, I'm just imagining that Wyant
is in the same boat. We saw Wyant in the hallway,
asked him if you would meet with us. He said,
I'm busy, I'm busy, give me a call my cellphone
and just walked away. Twenty four months.
Speaker 10 (06:07):
That I everglades twenty four months?
Speaker 8 (06:10):
Two fucking years? Why two years?
Speaker 7 (06:14):
Well, the thing he did say, unless I have an epiphany,
that's gonna be my vote. And so we just talked
about keep an open mind for the epiphany. But I
don't know, was the worst meeting I've ever been in
my life. We gave Scott a minute to process what
(06:37):
had just happened, and then we got in the car
with him and left, knowing that we'd be back the
next morning for the hearing. Two years.
Speaker 11 (06:47):
So let's think about that.
Speaker 12 (06:49):
You don't give a flying fuck whether this man is
guilty or innocent.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
That's what it boils down.
Speaker 7 (06:58):
He has to respect.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
Scott knew he owed Leo an update about the meetings.
He tried to get Leo on the phone to tell
him about what just happened, but he couldn't get through.
Scott forwarded me the email he sent him. Hey Davison
says he listened to the podcast, but he is still
inclined to vote extension to Everglades for the lifers. We
(07:21):
may still be able to convince him to straight parole
to Noah's and that's what we're working on now and.
Speaker 7 (07:26):
Going into the evening. We're still at the worst case
scenario of transfer to Everglades. Please try to hang in there.
We are not finished by any stretch. I will keep
sending you emails through the evening as I get more info.
I still know God has this. I pray you agree, Scott.
(07:49):
After we'd met with the commissioner, as I got a
text from Chrissy just said I need to talk and
then yea, she knows Leo must have got that thing
and knew it and called her. I'm gonna have to
just give her some hope.
Speaker 13 (08:04):
I don't know.
Speaker 9 (08:04):
I just can't.
Speaker 7 (08:05):
I can't just tell her it's came over because I
don't know it's over.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
I mean, it's not.
Speaker 9 (08:09):
It hasn't been voted on yet.
Speaker 14 (08:11):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, because he's ready, she says, I prefer
not to record.
Speaker 9 (08:24):
Okay, let me just turn this off.
Speaker 7 (08:26):
Then sorry, she never does this, so she's gonna be upset. Okay,
here we go, crazy, Hey, where are you right?
Speaker 5 (08:41):
Now called her, and.
Speaker 7 (08:46):
She's as upset as I've ever heard her in knowing her.
She was just crying and venting. She was frustrated. It's okay,
you don't have to apologize for anything. No, you don't apologize, Chrissy.
If I know this, I know, it's okay.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
You can do it to me. It's okay.
Speaker 7 (09:10):
The stress about this and just knowing that you have
another defeat coming, I know, can't even imagine what that's like.
It's I don't know, it's a really hard place to
be in and to hear somebody just desperate and you know,
in tears, just brutal, and you know, I think there's
(09:31):
probably some hope that, like this story is going to
change everything, and you know, kind of.
Speaker 9 (09:36):
Didn't I know exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 7 (09:46):
She's she said, I'm in desperation mode.
Speaker 13 (09:49):
What else is there?
Speaker 7 (09:49):
Someone else? We got to try something different. We're all
sitting here thinking, just scrambling and trying to do last
minute things. And is there is there a magic thing
to that was said that that will change their minds?
I mean, if you have any ideas about that, I
don't know. She said, Well, then we need a miracle.
We have to pray for a miracle and you know, well,
that's all well and good, but I'm just thinking there's
(10:10):
not gonna be any miracles in that f court building tomorrow. Man,
that has gone through the motions tomorrow is gonna suck. Yeah,
And just seeing people who are like hopeful and us
standing around knowing what's gonna happen should I'm feeling it now.
(10:36):
It's just this home court advantage that they have. They have,
it's all stacked in their favor and reason logic, the
right thing doesn't really matter.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
Winning matters.
Speaker 7 (10:50):
I can't distance myself from me like it should be,
just like, well, this is the story I'm reporting. It's
unfortunate for all the people are out like no, we're
in it, and I mean, I don't know what to do.
That's you know, we're still reporting on everything.
Speaker 10 (11:03):
But it's just how do you not feel this?
Speaker 15 (11:05):
Man?
Speaker 9 (11:05):
I just know what's wrong.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Hi.
Speaker 10 (11:10):
I'm Jason Flamm, CEO and founder of Lava for Good podcasts,
Home to Bone Valley, Wrongful Conviction, The War on Drugs,
and many other great podcasts. Today we're asking you, our listeners,
to take part in a survey. Your feedback is going
to help inform how we make podcasts in the future.
Your complete and candid answers will help us continue to
bring you more insightful and inspiring stories about important topics
(11:34):
that impact us all. So please go to lava for
goood dot com slash survey and participate today. Thank you
for your support.
Speaker 5 (11:46):
Bone Valley is sponsored by Stand Together. Stand Together is
a philanthropic community that partners with America's boldest change makers
to tackle the root causes of our country's biggest problems,
including the broken criminal justice system. Weldon Angelos is one
of those change makers. At the age of twenty three,
(12:07):
Weldon was arrested for a first time offense of selling
weed to a confidential informant. At the time, he was
a budding musician spending time with artists like Tupac Snoop Dogg, Pink,
and Gnase. His entire life was ahead of him when
he was sentenced to a mandatory fifty five years in
federal prison without the possibility of early release. After serving
(12:30):
thirteen years, a bipartisan effort led to him getting officially pardoned.
Upon his release, he founded The Weldon Project, a nonprofit
working to create better outcomes for those still in prison
that funds social change and provides financial aid for all
those who were still serving time for cannabis related offenses.
(12:52):
Weldon Angelos is one of the many entrepreneurs partnering with
Stand Together to drive solutions in education, healthcare, poverty, and
criminal justice. To learn more about the War on Drugs,
listen to the War on Drugs podcast on Apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your podcasts. The night before the hearing,
(13:16):
we had dinner reservations at a restaurant in Tallahassee with
Chrissy Ashley, her two baby boys, and some of their
close friends who had made the trek up to Tallahassee
to support them. The dinner was supposed to be about hope,
final chance to come together and center themselves for the
next day, but after the news from the meetings, the
mood was somber. Leo's best friend and bandmate, Kevin Herrick
(13:39):
his family showed up to be with Chrissy. They've known
Leo and Chrissy for decades. Kevin's sister Laurie led everyone
in prayer.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
We ask right now for comfort for Leo. We can't
even imagine Lord, what he's going through right now. I
pray that you surround him right now, this evening tomorrow
morning with people who love him, who can lift him
up and bring him comfort. And we ask that you
bring him comfort Lord, as we know only you can
(14:09):
do in times like this when we feel that you know,
everything is out of our control, but we know that
everything goes through your hands first. So we are accepting that.
We are, as Chrissy said, lifting our heads high, and
we are leaving this at the altar.
Speaker 15 (14:30):
High.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Shutters back, We're okay, We're okay, Yes we are, We're good.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
This is gonna work.
Speaker 15 (14:39):
You know.
Speaker 7 (14:39):
Those are the boys came in Leo's grandsons and just
like I wanted to hug from one of those kids,
I just wanted to hold those kids. So that was
for me.
Speaker 5 (14:49):
Yeah, you know, I definitely understand why so many people.
Speaker 7 (14:55):
Are religious in this world because if you have no
hope this and you got to believe in something and
this is it and it's happening right in front of me, and.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Uh, I'm all in.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
While we sat at dinner with Chrissy, Scott was sending
me messages. He was working to pull whatever strings he
could to trigger that epiphany. You know, Scott, also.
Speaker 7 (15:19):
Recognized that, you know, we need to rawther kitchen sink
at this and pull out all the stops everything, and
you know, we agreed we need Jonathan here.
Speaker 5 (15:29):
Senator Jonathan Martin had already told us that he thought
Leo was innocent and should not only be paroled, he
should be exonerated. He's also the chair of the Florida
Senate's Committee on Criminal Justice and has oversight of the
Florida Commission on a Fender Review. Those three appointed officials
who'd be making the decision to grant Leo parole or not.
(15:51):
His presence at the hearing might be Leo's last hope.
Speaker 7 (15:55):
If he could appear, you know, and with him and
Scott speaking together about this, I think that if that
could happen, that might be the Hail Mary pass. We
need something really powerful, something that was kind of like
a game changer, you know. Davidson talked about wanting to
have some kind of epiphany, and I said, that's what
(16:17):
we need, something so powerful that it's going to change
the vote.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
But this is the last week of the legislative session
in Tallahassee, and Senator Martin has to be present to vote,
So showing up at a parole hearing might not even
be possible.
Speaker 9 (16:32):
He had said early on, I'll do whatever I can
if I can, if I'm available. So I texted him
a couple of times. He wasn't responding to the text.
I didn't read anything negative into it. I just was like,
he's inundated, and I get it. You know, he's got
major responsibilities.
Speaker 16 (16:52):
Ah.
Speaker 5 (16:55):
I called him last night.
Speaker 9 (16:58):
Left a voicemail, and I left a pretty long text
was basically help, please help, because I was panicked. And
within fifteen minutes of that text, I got a text
from Jonathan very short, I'll be there at nine o'clock,
(17:19):
and then I had to text back that we're not
scheduled till ten, so then start panicking again.
Speaker 5 (17:29):
The next morning, Scott pulled into the parking lot for
the hearing. He didn't know whether or not Senator Martin
would really be there.
Speaker 9 (17:36):
He's pulling in right next to me. At the same time,
he goes, I'm gonna go sit in the front row.
See if that helps. You can't miss him. He's like
six seven six eight, That's what he did.
Speaker 5 (17:48):
Senator Martin promised to make an appearance, but with the
timing and a schedule, he might not be able to
stay until Leo's case was called, but he was promising
Scott he'd stay for as long as he could.
Speaker 15 (18:04):
I was sitting there and like the dread really hit me.
I was so aware of my blood pressure, like it
was just through the roof.
Speaker 7 (18:16):
And then the commissioner, the chair announced that we're going
to take a short three minute break and we're going
to come back and we're going to start with the
Schofield case, and we're going to do that one first.
And you could tell there was some buzz in the
crowd because everybody was there for Leo's case, and it
just made me think, all right, three minutes, that's the countdown, Okay,
(18:37):
keep ready.
Speaker 15 (18:40):
And then when the hearing actually started, seeing all of
our familiar faces around, and I don't know, I feel
like I was worried about you.
Speaker 7 (18:54):
I didn't even know what I was supposed to do
except sit there and just suffer. And that's that was
That was the hard part, just feeling like, well, I'm
just gonna be watching this and I know where it's going.
It's just gonna be painful, all right.
Speaker 16 (19:08):
I'll go ahead and use meaning to order for the
full commission is ten am. We're back on the record.
If everyone could please take your seat, if you are
not going to be speaking.
Speaker 15 (19:20):
Seeing the commissioners walk in and like you know, making
eye contact with them and knowing like that they know
what I'm thinking, and like I know what they're thinking,
and there's just like that recognition and I don't know
that that felt really intense. I felt I was like, oh,
why did we choose to sit in the front row.
I feel like very vulnerable and.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Exposed right now.
Speaker 7 (19:42):
Yeah, and I was thinking the same thing. I'm just
it's just a totally helpless feeling, like, you know, after
all we've done and everything, and it was just like
it's really difficult to sit there and like maintain any
kind of hope.
Speaker 16 (19:55):
So we're now in the full portion of the doc
who we're all three commissioners will be voting. East Side
gets ten minutes in which to make your presentation. We'll
start with the supporters, followed by anyone in opposition the
investigators recommending an extension. And this is on the leoscope
okase id to number thirty one on page sixteen, and I.
Speaker 15 (20:14):
Just made.
Speaker 7 (20:17):
At that point I see Scott move towards the podium.
I see Jonathan sitting at the front table, and I
just remember thinking, they know it's desperation time, they know
where things stand, and so they're not going to hold
anything back. And I just had that feeling that it
was just going to be not your typical parole hearing.
Speaker 12 (20:41):
Good morning, commissioners.
Speaker 13 (20:42):
Thank you.
Speaker 12 (20:44):
My name is Scott Cupp. I'm an attorney representing Leo Schofield, obviously,
but there's many, many other attorneys. A lot of them
are here today, and I would just like to mention
them briefly.
Speaker 7 (20:55):
I was facing his back. I couldn't see his eyes,
but I was watching commissioners and there was like this anticipation.
I could sort of see it in their eyes through me.
Speaker 12 (21:06):
The first thing I would like you to hear from
is a letter written by Jesse Sam who's Michelle Schofield's brother.
It was written for the last parole hearing, which was
in twenty twenty. For some reason, and maybe the state
will tell us here today, it was not read. I
(21:26):
have no idea why it wasn't read. I think it
was part of the record, but I want to read
it now. Make it part of the record. January two,
twenty twenty in reference to Leo R. Schofield prole hearing
one eight twenty. To whom it may concern, I'm not
going to attend the prole hearing of Leo R. Schofield. However,
I do ask you to read this letter and take
my comments into consideration as you make a decision about
(21:48):
granting Leo parole. I was sixteen at the time of
my sister's murder. I never knew the details of the case.
Because of my age, I had assumed the detectives and
the state involved had substantial evidence beyond a shadow of
a doubt to convict Leoschofield first degree murder. Over the years,
I've done some research and have found many inconsistencies and
(22:09):
discrepancies in the investigation and the trial. These have led
to many questions about the state's handling of my sister's murder.
I'm not one hundred percent convinced Leo is guilty of
this crime. In fact, for my research, he could be innocent.
It just seems likely you got the wrong guy. I
do not have confidence in the conviction of Leoschofield, and
(22:30):
I support his request for parole. Thank you, Jesse Song.
At this time I would like to have Senator Jonathan
Martin speak.
Speaker 7 (22:42):
And then Jonathan Rose. And you know when he stands
up at the podium, it looks like the podium's up
to his waist and he's just staring at the commissioners intensely.
Speaker 13 (22:53):
Good morning.
Speaker 11 (22:53):
My name is Jonathan Martin. I've known Scott cup for
many years. I met him when I was a prosecutor.
I've handled Holmes cases. Everything that I've seen about this
case turns my stomach. I don't know why Leo Schofield
wasn't released years ago when he was before this board.
(23:20):
You have the opportunity to release him immediately. He wasn't
released last time because he wasn't remorseful. You cannot be
remorseful for something you did not do. It's not your
job to determine guilt or innocence. But if you are
going to consider whether somebody is remorseful and whether they
should be released today or should have been released years ago,
(23:43):
you have to at least crack the transcript. You have
to at least wonder why the fingerprints of a serial
killer were inside Michelle's car and we're never tested, and
we're never presented to the jury. In Polk County over
thirty years ago. I was five years old when Leos
Goofield started doing time for this murder. I stand by
(24:10):
the criminal justice system here in the state of Florida.
We're one of the best on the planet. But there's
a whole lot of doubt right now about how good
we are. You guys, have the chance today to fix that.
You have the chance to restore credibility to a system
that thousands of people.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Know.
Speaker 11 (24:30):
An injustice happened, and it's continuing every single second. The
Leoscofield remains behind bars.
Speaker 13 (24:39):
Thank you.
Speaker 12 (24:45):
Next, I'd like to read a portion of Leo's statement
in his pearl packet that you all have, but I
just like the highlight of part of it.
Speaker 7 (24:54):
Leo's letter I thought was really beautiful, really powerful.
Speaker 12 (24:58):
First, I understand the par is not based upon guilt
or innocence, but solely a function of grace from this commission.
Having shared that, I must say he.
Speaker 7 (25:08):
Talked about why he can't show remorse, and he talked
about the deals he'd been given to get out of
prison and the fact that he stood on his innocence
it worked against him.
Speaker 12 (25:20):
Ask only that you consider the fact that I have
stood on my innocence in the face of plea agreements
that would have allowed me to go home many years
ago without parole or even probation, a fact of the
record that is known by the state.
Speaker 7 (25:35):
And I do believe that Leo's words made a difference
in there. If it's submitted to them, maybe they read it,
maybe they don't. Maybe they think, oh, all these letters
are the same, and they skim it. But Scott was saying,
you're not going to skim this. I'm going to tell
you what he said, and it's important that you know.
Speaker 12 (25:50):
This of innocence he or she does not actually possess
in hopes of convincing a commission that doesn't weigh guilt
or innocence to let them go based upon that innocence.
That simply does not make sense. The only right conclusion
that can be arrived at with my situation is that
I am forced to maintain my innocence simply because I'm
(26:11):
actually and factually innocent. Leo Schofield innocent, innocent innocence. That's
been an elephant in the room for way too long.
It was the elephant in the room in twenty twelve.
(26:32):
It was the elephant in the room. In twenty fifteen,
it was the elephant in the room. In twenty twenty,
we'll look around. The elephant's gone. Okay, it's out there.
He is innocent. What I'm asking you to do is
to search your heart. This isn't difficult. I think you
(26:56):
all know what's gone on hereveral of you I believe
know he is in fact innocent. One of the things
that disturbed me in our meetings was the issue that
guilt and innocence is not in our purview. It should
always be in our purview. I don't care find a
way to make it part of your purview. This man
(27:16):
does not deserve one more night in prison. He's been
in there for thirty five years. I suspect you're going
to hear from the state from another of the victims.
I do not disparage anything that any of them might say.
I just hope you keep it into perspective. He's been
grieving for thirty five years with the added thing of
(27:38):
giving up his life for something he didn't do. He
grieves every single day for Michelle Schofield. Please, I implore
you do not extend him two years for yet another program.
Send him to the Noah's House and do it now.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 16 (27:57):
Thank you everyone for being here. I know some of
you travel great distance, so thank you. I'm not going
to now move to opposition if.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
You would like to speak now.
Speaker 7 (28:05):
It was the state's turn to make its case. We
weren't sure if someone from the State Attorney's office would
even show up, but they did send a representative, Assistant
State Attorney Jacob Or.
Speaker 5 (28:17):
I've written or over the years. He handles the office's
pr but he's not the face we were expecting. He
doesn't have the kind of history or emotional connection to
Leo's case that Jerry Hill and Victoria Avalon have.
Speaker 16 (28:31):
You can rest oar six now morning, mister Oregon.
Speaker 17 (28:35):
Thank you commissioners again. My name is Jacob Or. I'm
an assistant state attorney in the Tenth Circuit. We just
heard a lot of talk about justice and what is justice.
I became a prosecutor fifteen years ago, and in that
time I have learned that you cannot pursue justice unless
you first pursue truth. In this case, That's what the
(28:57):
court systems have been doing for me many years.
Speaker 13 (29:01):
I've told others.
Speaker 17 (29:02):
I think this is the most reviewed case in the
history of Polk County, and I really don't know if
that's true, but I think it might be because we've
looked at this, we've litigated this, and every time we
go to court, we relitigate and we re review the
case based on the actual transcripts and the actual available evidence,
and every one of those reviews results in the same
(29:22):
outcome that there's overwhelming evidence in support of the guilty
verdict that was handed down many years ago. But that's
not really why y'all are here today. You're here today
to decide if this inmate is going to get out
of jail. And I won't go too much in detail
into the facts of the case because I know you've
(29:42):
heard some of them before, and you know there was
a heinous murder committed. But you got to compare that
with what has been a long time of being a
very good inmate. I'm telling you about truth, and I
think we need to recognize the fact that he's been
a very good inmate. But you know, the law doesn't
allow being a good inmate alone. To allow for release,
(30:03):
You've got to do some determination of what risk is
posed to the public and how he will conduct himself
if he gets out, and I know you've got some guidelines.
I'll help you with that, but that's going to be
a challenge for you. I think in this case, even
the victim's family appears to be split on whether or
not he should be out. And I think you're going
to hear from someone in a moment. And to ask
(30:25):
this from me from the State Attorney's office on behalf
of the state of Florida, is that you'd treat this
inmate the same as any other, that you would do
an honest review of the record, apply your guidelines and
then make your decision. And if you'll do it that
way and ignore all the show that's going on along
with it, and just do an honest review of this record,
(30:48):
then I think you'll make a just decision. I want
to yield whatever time I have left.
Speaker 7 (30:54):
Two And then they mentioned that at the end of
his presentation, which was pretty short, it was only a
couple of minutes, they mentioned that they had somebody from
the family, and that someone turned out to be Michelle's
other brother, Ricky Som.
Speaker 16 (31:09):
Thank you very much, all right? Do we have the
victim online? Mister Som? I don't know if you can
hear me, but you just pressed our six to get through.
Speaker 13 (31:18):
I'm here, Yes, go ahead, Okay. So I'm Ricky Song,
I'm I guess I'm the brother of this sister that
was killed, basically, and I just want to say that.
Speaker 18 (31:39):
A lot of people have, let's just say, distorted the
truth of this case and that I was there.
Speaker 13 (31:49):
I was a kid. My brother might write in and
say that he was too young to understand anything. I
was the older brother. I was not too young to
not understand everything. So there's a lot of miss We'll say,
there's a lot of misinformation from this twenty twenty TV show,
and a lot of the things that Leo and his
family have said have definitely been not truth. It's their truth,
(32:15):
and that's okay. But at the end of the day,
Leo did not come to my house and talk to
my dad that night. Leo did not this, Leo did
not do a lot of those things because I was there,
I lived it. I know where my sister was. You know,
some people have asked me, you know, did Leo kill
my sister? And you know, I believe in God and
(32:37):
I believe in the courts, and the courts got it right,
and at the end of the day, you know, if
Leo has to sit in prison for forty five years
or fifty.
Speaker 18 (32:45):
Years because he tortured my sister, he mentally tortured her,
he violently tortured her, at the end.
Speaker 13 (32:56):
Of the day, he should stay in jail for the
rest of life period, regardless of where this case, what
the case is pending on right now at this moment.
But from my point of view is that this isn't
very emotional to me. It's mostly justice for someone that
deserves it, and I believe that the court's got a right.
(33:18):
I mean, I'll get off the phone and let you
guys finish up. Sorry for taking every time.
Speaker 16 (33:23):
We appreciate you calling in. Thank you for your input.
All right, anyone else in opposition wishing to speak?
Speaker 15 (33:34):
All right?
Speaker 16 (33:35):
Hearing notta, we will proceed with the vote, starting with
Commissioner Davison.
Speaker 19 (33:39):
Yes, in the matter of Leo Schofield. I've had the
opportunity to review this case, and it's entirety. I listened
very very closely to the testimony, both in support and opposition.
Speaker 15 (33:51):
I've had a.
Speaker 19 (33:52):
Series of meetings prior to today. I've listened to certain
documentary items that have been put together on behalf of Mississcofield.
I've reviewed documents.
Speaker 13 (34:06):
That are.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
Commissioner Davison was the first to announce his decision. He
recommended that Leo Bi transferred to Everglade's correctional to participate
in the lifer's program for twenty four months two years
at another prison before he'd be eligible for parole again.
Speaker 19 (34:27):
Is to agree with the commission Investigator. I have a
twenty four month extension based upon good cause and exceptional
circumstance to allow the offender to complete programs that contain
self betterment and transitional components. I would set a new
ppr D at June twenty four five, and.
Speaker 7 (34:46):
So they would reestablish his parole for two years. And
it's exactly what he told us at our meeting, and
after listening to all that, it was pretty clear he
just had not changed his opinion.
Speaker 15 (34:58):
At all, hearing that nothing that had been said before
him had changed his mind. I mean, I thought it
was done right then and there.
Speaker 20 (35:09):
Thank you, Commissioner Wyatt, thank you, ma'am, thank you all
for your testimony here today and to echo the words
of Commissioner Davis and I to have reviewed this case
in its entirety and had several meetings regarding the case
of mister Schofield.
Speaker 7 (35:22):
Commissioner Wyant went next, and then he was recommending eighteen months,
so he brought it down from two years to a
year and a half.
Speaker 20 (35:30):
I also note that mister Schofield has had a clean
record as it relates to dr for many years and
has accomplished some things while in prison. My concern is
to make sure he is ready to go if given
the opportunity, so I believe that he also needs some
further program participation. I agree with the FIUCTP program referral.
(35:51):
I have an eighteen month extension rather than twenty four
based on the good cause and exceptional circumstances, and that
being the participation.
Speaker 7 (36:01):
And then the Chair Commissioner kuon Rod, she went next,
but by this point it was kind of over, but
at least there was the It went from twenty four
months to eighteen months. That was something different. And then
Commissioner kuon Ron and her response and decision was really nuanced.
Speaker 16 (36:22):
I'd like to say that our role is not to
determine guilt or innocence. I know that's the subject of
a lot of people right now. I reviewed all the records,
and I can tell you that I think the State
Attorney's Office with the tenth Judicial Circuit has done their job.
They reviewed the evidence and they made the call based
on the evidence that they received. The fact is that
(36:46):
mister Schofield has been tried by a jury of his tears,
and his conviction has been upheld by numerous courts, and
that's what we as commissioners are facing, and we have
to respect what has been done in the court system. However,
our job is to look at a person's overall record
and determine whether or not they are suitable for parole,
(37:08):
whether they pose a risk to society, and whether or
not they have a good transitional program so that they
can be successful. My vote is to parole.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
Commissioner koon Rod votes for parole. She supports Scott Cupp's
request for Leo's immediate release to a halfway house, but.
Speaker 16 (37:28):
The two commissioners have agreed to extend. I would to
avoid a three way split. I would move to Commissioner
Wyant's eighteen month extension, and I would ask if either
commissioner would consider a one year next interview.
Speaker 20 (37:44):
Days I'm sure it and look in this case, if
you feel comfortable, I would acquiesk to a twelve month
extension rather than eighteen. I just like I said, he's
been in a long time and he's going to need
program aiming to be successful. I understand and support as overwhelming,
and that's important in my decision. But I believe he
(38:06):
does need some time in the CTPFIU program to prepare him.
So if you're willing to actu as, I would move
down to one year in the program with an effect
of March twenty four.
Speaker 5 (38:19):
And very quickly.
Speaker 7 (38:21):
Right away, Commissioner Wyant said, I accept that, and so
it went to twelve months.
Speaker 16 (38:28):
I will move to that position. And I agree with
the referral to the CTP program. And I also just
want to make one more comment. I've spoken with a
lot of people in this case, including Jerry Hill, and
I have to say I've known him for a long time.
He's an honorable man. He is a man of great integrity,
and he represents the ten Circuit well and I respect
(38:52):
his opinion. I value his opinion. I spoke to him
about this case before I came to my decision, and
I spoke with the current state attorney. I think everybody's
doing their job, and I just wanted to put that
on the record. So our final decision is to move
mister Schofield's case to June twenty four, twenty twenty four,
with a next interview date of March twenty four, and
(39:15):
referral to the ctp FIU program at Everglade's ci And
thank you everyone for taking your time to be here.
We appreciate it.
Speaker 15 (39:35):
I I just needed to step outside for a number two.
Speaker 5 (39:42):
After the decision, Chrissy, Ashley, Scott Copp, Senator Martin, everyone
who showed up to support Leo, we all left the
hearing room and walked outside. Chrissy and Ashley were crying
and being comforted by friends and family. There was anger
and frustration and concerns about how Leo would take the news.
Speaker 8 (40:04):
You can't trust that.
Speaker 7 (40:07):
How do you think your dad's gonna respond to the news? O.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
This is not gonna be This is not gonna be
a good thing.
Speaker 5 (40:20):
When we went outside, we also talked to some parolees.
They'd shown up to support some of the other people
who were up for parole that day, but after Leo's decision,
they saw that people were upset and they came over
to talk to us.
Speaker 21 (40:34):
If you got that was your.
Speaker 7 (40:35):
Decision, and you got twelve months.
Speaker 21 (40:37):
If I got this decision, I'll be static. I have
guys that friends that have been out fifty years or
forty seven years. Anybody will pay you when the life scends.
Getting that program, you can't get no better. My name
is Gregory bullet Ard.
Speaker 19 (40:50):
Appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
Plus did we send to that program.
Speaker 5 (40:54):
There was no immediate consensus about what had happened in
that hearing room and what it meant and how to
feel about it. It wasn't the scenario Leo's friends and
family had been hoping for, but it wasn't the worst
case scenario either. Everyone seemed to be moving through waves
of varying emotions.
Speaker 7 (41:13):
But I didn't know I did.
Speaker 5 (41:14):
I didn't know Johnathan was gonna I'm glad he did.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
But Jonathan was going to come and speak like that.
Speaker 13 (41:20):
He was great.
Speaker 12 (41:21):
Didn't take that.
Speaker 9 (41:21):
Oh that was tremendous.
Speaker 6 (41:22):
So yeah, let me ask you to answer your question.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
I think I was outraged. And then when she said
what she said, and I'm.
Speaker 12 (41:28):
Like, I thought she was going to backpeddle there for
a minute.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
Yeah, I was gonna I was like, what the heck's happening?
Speaker 1 (41:35):
And then when he went down, my whole, my whole
thought just shifted.
Speaker 6 (41:42):
I think I'm not trying to put I'm not trying
to put like a good spin on it make everyone
feel better. But they conceded that he's been great. It
made it's the first time they've done that. They didn't
talk about the facts of the case. It Oh, it's
the first time they've done that. So I think it's
a lot of important steps in the right direction to
put him on the Clyde path if everything goes well.
Speaker 5 (42:02):
To It was also, in many ways, a reunion of sorts.
All these people who'd worked on Leo's case through its
various stages across three and a half decades were standing
together sharing the moment. Don Morris, Richard Bartman, Pat McKenna,
Seth Miller. Familiar faces were everywhere. Some were reconnecting for
(42:26):
the first time in years.
Speaker 6 (42:29):
You know, like it's like you're talking the team back
together again. You always had crazy.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Getting crazier. I like it.
Speaker 6 (42:37):
I like, the last time we're altogether in front of judge.
Speaker 22 (42:44):
Yeah, the last time thirteen years ago, something like that,
ten or.
Speaker 5 (42:49):
Nine and among the familiar faces, there were new faces too,
talking to Gilbert just.
Speaker 15 (43:01):
A listener and support our Yeah, it's I feel like
it's better than nothing.
Speaker 5 (43:17):
Everyone seemed to gather around the attorneys who knew Leo's
case best and who knew how to put what just
happened into context.
Speaker 22 (43:26):
I mean, he never got anything before today. They never
they had their footspin on the guests for thirty five years.
So the idea that somebody would come in and not
just flash autopsy pictures, which is what they've been doing
for all these reviews, and that kind of argument is
(43:49):
a testament to what you and Kelsey did. It's a
testament to what Scott has done all these years. It's
a testament to what Seth did, all the people that
have worked on the case. But I mean you and
got us to this point that that brought the kind
of attention, that got their attention, that got the whole
world's attention, that brought pressure to bear, and now he's
(44:13):
got a shot at release, which he never had before.
I mean, he's never had anything to look forward to.
Speaker 7 (44:20):
Nothing.
Speaker 22 (44:20):
I mean they've slammed doors in his face. The courts
have done it, the parole boards have done it like
Seth saying, this is the first time anybody did anything
other than this say screw you, which is thirty five years.
What's what we've been hearing so well, it's not what
(44:41):
everybody wants, and it's not what should have been done,
and it's not ultimately justice, it's.
Speaker 10 (44:46):
It's it's a.
Speaker 22 (44:48):
Step he's never received before. And from what's set saying it,
you know, it looks pretty good where he's going, the
program he's going. You know, maybe next year we're in
a place we want to be.
Speaker 5 (45:08):
Over the course of an hour or so, the collective
mood was beginning to shift. Leo's grandsons were running around
barefoot in the grass. Heels were kicked off and ties removed.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
So I can't tell you if I'm excited or not.
Speaker 16 (45:25):
You know, by I'm excited about this is one of
the next stepping stones from getting out.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
But we're not going to stop here.
Speaker 15 (45:31):
We're hoping to push for exoneration for sure.
Speaker 5 (45:34):
So slowly the reasons for hope and gratitude began to
accumulate their Senator Jonathan Martin, who used his authority as
an elected representative to speak about injustice and innocence. His
speech was a departure from the usual statements heard in
parole hearings. The state's approach was different this time. There
(45:59):
was no pounding on the podium, no autopsy photos, no
comments about Leo's lack of remorse. Instead, Jacob Orr pointed
to court rulings and procedures. He even referred to the
heinous murder of Michelle Schofield without saying exactly who was
responsible for the crime, and he acknowledged Leo's outstanding record
(46:22):
of his time in prison. One of the commissioners actually
voted for parole. Commissioner Kunrod was prepared to send Leo
directly to a halfway house, something that we've been told
never happens. And Commissioner Wyant, the former Polk County cop
we'd completely written off. He could have easily agreed to
(46:44):
Davison's twenty four month recommendation, but by deciding on eighteen
months instead, he opened the conversation to compromise, and he
agreed to reducing the recommendation to twelve months. And really
it might not even be twelve full months. Leo's parole
process will begin again in March of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
It was outrage and then disappointment, and then confusion and
then release.
Speaker 13 (47:16):
Take a picture ish.
Speaker 7 (47:18):
Yeah, so okay, but then some of the other well,
technically this was a denial of parole. There were signs
if you look closely, something has changed. We all began
to recognize it. Leo won't be released tomorrow. But for
the first time, the very first time, there's an end insight.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
I you know, I'm.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
It's like weird because I'm like happy, but I'm not happy,
but I'm I'm happy. It could have been much worse.
It could have been much worse.
Speaker 5 (47:55):
While we were all standing out there, Chrissy was able
to get on the phone with She asked for privacy
and stepped away to deliver the news.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
I wanted to be the first one to tell him,
and long story short, I was able to talk to him.
I told him what happened, and uh, he said, it's
nothing but a meatball. We're gonna put gas in the motorcycle,
keep it running. We got this, And then we got this. Yeah,
(48:33):
nothing about a meatball.
Speaker 15 (48:34):
We got this.
Speaker 3 (48:36):
There's a lot of work, a lot of.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
A lot of things at the eleventh hour, right, I
think all those prayers worked. Yeah, we just have to
keep gassing the motorcycle.
Speaker 10 (48:57):
Right.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
Yes, this is not what we wanted, but this is
what we have, and this is what we're gonna do.
Speaker 3 (49:05):
Right, shoulders, shoulders, back, head, Hi, We're gonna do it.
Speaker 19 (49:11):
Rita, rita, Lourie.
Speaker 8 (49:17):
I spoke to Leo.
Speaker 3 (49:17):
He's cool, he's good, he's good.
Speaker 19 (49:25):
He said, you'll love this, Lourie.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
He said nothing. I'm better meet while just keep gassing
that motorcycle.
Speaker 3 (49:37):
Yeah, baby, bring it on.
Speaker 5 (49:47):
After the hearing, Kelsey and I returned to our Tallahassee
airbnb along with our producers Karra and Britt to get
started on this episode. We worked through the afternoon and
evening and into the night, never straying too far from
the phone. We were anticipating a call from Leo, but
it wasn't until the next morning when he was able
(50:07):
to call. I just have a quick question for you,
because we talked to Chrissy right after she talked to you,
and she was smiling and beaming, and she said, Leo
said this is a meatball, and we didn't quite understand that.
Speaker 19 (50:20):
What does that mean?
Speaker 23 (50:21):
A meatball? Yeah, that's my little sarcastic way of saying
this is we can handle this. We've we've been up
against much, much bigger giants, and this is not I
really wanted her rather than her see this as a hurdle.
You know it will become The Paro Commission has really
(50:43):
changed that part of the narrative for me. It's no
longer a hurdle. This is I think the message they
were sending to us is that we care and we
want you to succeed, and this is the way we
think that you succeed best. And so I told Chrissy,
I said, an all a hard thing we've had to
do in the thirty five years we've been in here.
This is a meatball.
Speaker 13 (51:04):
We got this.
Speaker 23 (51:05):
It's no problem at all. We're going to be able
to do this. She was obviously a little emotional, a
lot emotional. It was hard for me to read her
voice right away. You know, I'm pretty good at being
able to detect in her voice whether something is good
or bad. And you know, she was so emotional yesterday
that I wasn't really sure if it was good or bad.
(51:28):
But she said to me, I'm wanting to listen to
the end, and that's always a warning that there's going
to be something in between. Now in the end that
I might not like, but I needed to get to
the end before I could really weigh it, so I did.
I just remained quiet, and she kind of broke it
down to me, step by step everything that happened.
Speaker 4 (51:49):
And.
Speaker 23 (51:51):
Basically told me that, you know, we were going to
end up going Eviglades instead of the halfway House. My
first inclination. Because she was so emotional and I could
hear the kids in the background, I knew that no
matter what I was feeling at the time, I just
I had to make sure that everybody there was all right.
I had to make sure my wife was all right.
(52:12):
And so I wanted her to know that I'm okay,
and I want everybody to know that I'm okay. When
when when mister Orr was given an opportunity to speak,
you know, for the state, there wasn't any more of
this lambastic assassination of my character. Accusations that were you know,
(52:33):
flown around in previous hearings and and basically you know,
telling the commission, we want you to treat them as
you would any other inmate and stuff. I can live
with that, and I can appreciate that, you know, because
I cannot tell you what damage it does to my
heart to hear that stuff and even known it's not true,
(52:53):
even though and the people who are on my you know,
support system, know that it's not true. Just for them
having to suffer through that and hear that, the embarrassment
of it, it's almost too much to take in. And
I was so nervous about that part of it. I
was just terribly fearful of what, you know, maybe Gerry
(53:13):
Hill's going to do avalon whoever else they signed up there,
and I just did not want to hear that, and
I didn't want anybody else to have to hear that,
because it's devastating. And you know, that not happening yesterday
to me personally, was liberating in and of itself. It
(53:35):
was kind of like a signal saying, you know what
we're going to We're going to give them an opportunity
to get home. And then the musing of the commission itself,
you know, where they start off with twenty four months
and end up at twelve with the comeback, and you know,
essentially nine nine months is not that far. Two years
(53:55):
would have been too long. I think we came away
from that just about as well as we could have
had hoped, you know, aside from not wanting aside from
wanting to go to the halfway house, and that would
have been great. This is a really really positive thing.
Speaker 13 (54:10):
You know.
Speaker 23 (54:11):
I've got a lot of people who've wrote to me
over the the last twenty four hours, and a lot
of them are angry, a lot of them are expressing sorrow,
and you know, I totally appreciate that, but I want
them to see the good in it. If it was
not for the support, if it was not for the
work of the podcast that you have done, Kelsey has done,
you know, Team Leo, you know, we wouldn't be here.
(54:32):
And this was a very big victory for me. And
I want them to be able to see the sense
of accomplishment that we've all been able to, you know,
put together by believing in the truth, standing for the truth,
praying for the truth, and coming together and convincing people
of that same truth. We've been walking in a tunnel
(54:52):
in utter darkness for thirty five years and well, I
mean not being able to see two feet in front
of ours face, just putting one foot in front of
the other, going forward, hopefully we're going forward, not really knowing,
just believing and trusting. We have never had a light
at the end of this tunnel. Ever, yesterday a big,
(55:14):
bright light was lit. We can see it. It's at
the end of nine months and it's solid. And now
without you know, the real opposition from the state and
me being able to go to this program in nine months,
you know, there's no reason why we won't be paroled.
(55:35):
And so that's a very positive thing. And nine months
is going to go by really really fast, especially for me.
This is really more for the pro commissioners. They are
rightly wanting to be comfortable about their decision, and it's
my job to go down there and make sure they
know it's going to be okay. We're all going to
(55:56):
be okay when this is over with. So, you know,
nine months at an institution that's an incentivized camp number one,
so they have no troublemakers there at all. You get
in any trouble at ever grade, you're on the next
bus leaving. So you're going to be surrounded by men
who would all like mine, are trying to do the
same thing. They're all trying to get out of prison.
And here's another caveat to this that I just realized
(56:19):
This is very important. Going through that program allows me
immediate access back into the prisons for other inmates, because
that's part of their program. Part of the FIU program
is to give back to the prison population. That is
exactly what I would want to do if the only
way that could happen with me being convicted felon on
(56:41):
the other side with parole, the only way to get
back in to help my brothers in here is to
go through that program. I gladly go through nine months
of that. So, you know, going down there for nine
months and being able to do this program and getting
the ability to come back and help others that are
on the same path, that's very very important to me.
(57:02):
I'm really feeling good and and I'm very very gratified
by yesterday's results, and I want that to be conveyed
to the many supporters that we have so they can
feel good about it as well. Here's my fear that
you know, my story fades into the history books now,
(57:23):
you know, the next new thing comes up, and you know,
I begin fading away. I can do the nine months.
What I'm asking from the supporters that I've got is
that it just helped me get there. You know when
this journey hasn't ended yet. I got to get to
March of next year. I got to do it at
a prison where I've never been, you know, with people
(57:44):
that I don't know. I don't know anymore, and I
still want to fight for exoneration. I still want to
fight from my freedom because I am innocent being parolled.
It's just a means to an end. It's not the
end if it was not for you and the podcast
(58:05):
and all the people have put that together and the
millions of people that have supported it. You know, you
became my watchdog, and you know, and that's tremendous. Jacob Orr,
Brian Hass. These people weren't here when this story was
created back long ago. I'm talking about nineteen eighty nine,
and you know, in the trial and all of that stuff,
(58:28):
they weren't involved in that. So I like to think
that maybe maybe the podcast, maybe the exposure to this
stuff gave them reason to maybe go back and look
at it themselves. I'd like to think that they have
heart and you know, and give them some credit for it,
because I think I told you this before. I want
to make this to where everybody can come out feeling
(58:48):
all right about who they are, you know, even Jeremy,
and especially Jeremy, because at the end of the day,
nothing we do or say is going to bring my
life back and and and in her memory, I really
want everybody to be all right with where we are
and where we go from here. And and so I
(59:09):
want everybody, including the state, to be able to walk
away from this and be okay, be okay with their
part in it and knowing that they are better human
beings for it. And that's my hope. And it might
be naive to think that way. I think that's possible now.
It was impossible before Bong Valley. And that's just how
(59:31):
profound this podcast has been. And I can't even begin
to tell you how grateful I am to you, to Kelsey. Somehow,
she has a connection in my heart and I can't
even talk to that girl without breaking down crying. But
from the beginning, from the very beginning, the first time
we met, I just could see it in her eyes
as she connected to this in a real heartfelt way.
(59:55):
And this meant everything to me.
Speaker 18 (59:59):
And so you know, here we are.
Speaker 23 (01:00:01):
It's four years and changed later, and I'm now nine
months away from getting home and to me, that's just amazing.
I can't thank you enough for that. I want to
make sure you thank.
Speaker 13 (01:00:14):
Her for it.
Speaker 8 (01:00:15):
Leo, Oh my gosh. I like I know you can
hear it in my voice. I cannot compose myself. I'm
just sitting here like listening to you and just crying.
I mean, you know way better than anyone that this
has been a roller coaster these past couple of days,
and there's just been so many emotions. I know it's
(01:00:36):
a whole process and we're all gonna have to process this,
and you especially, but I really, like, you know, woke
up feeling really really good about this today, and like
I'm really excited for you, Like I feel like, I mean,
I'm excited you know that you're going to be going
to this program, and I'm also really excited for like
(01:00:58):
all of the people gonna meet there that are gonna
have the opportunity to meet you and spend time with you.
And I know, like a big part of this program
is like the FIU students, and I'm thinking about that
as like, you know, young people I identify with that,
and like how much working on your story and hearing
from you and knowing you has changed my life, and
(01:01:20):
there's gonna be like this whole new, you know, group
of kids who are gonna now get that chance to
like really get to know you, and you're gonna change
their lives. And I'm that I'm so excited for that.
I don't know, I'm a mess. I'm like, I'm snotty
over here, but like I just it's just it's just
meant so much to me, and I just, you know,
(01:01:41):
I I think like nine months is, yeah, that time's
gonna go by fast, and you're gonna hopefully, you know,
be able to connect with a bunch of new people.
And then nine months from now, Team Leo is gonna
be like even bigger and more robust, and you know,
we are all going to be there for you when
(01:02:02):
you know, you get out for real. And I'm excited
for that.
Speaker 23 (01:02:06):
Well, if you guys are willing to do this nine
months with me, I'm willing to go down there and
oh my gosh, absolutely.
Speaker 7 (01:02:12):
We're not going anywhere, and I just want I just
wanted you to know that. And you know, we think
about you all the time, and.
Speaker 5 (01:02:20):
So great to hear your voice and hear you feeling optimistic.
Speaker 23 (01:02:23):
Thank you, Thank you both I love you guys, and
we'll talk again soon, right, Yeah, absolutely you guys rest
before you come home.
Speaker 13 (01:02:33):
Yeah, I love you.
Speaker 23 (01:02:34):
You are beautiful. Thank you so much for all you've done.
You guys are the masters. Will love you, Gilbert, take care, buddy,
Love you too.
Speaker 15 (01:02:44):
All.
Speaker 7 (01:02:45):
Bye bye
Host
Gilbert King
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