November 9, 2022 • 73 mins
Chapter 9 of 9
Gilbert and Kelsey travel to the Florida prison where they will interview Jeremy Scott. Jeremy tells them about his interactions with prosecutor John Aguero, his involvement in a 1987 unsolved homicide, his encounter with Michelle Schofield, and how he copes with the violence of his past. Gilbert visits Leo Schofield one last time, and reflects on this tragic injustice.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, big day, Let's let's go go bert Um yep,
(00:15):
I got everything. It's September sixteenth, twenty twenty one. Kelsey
and I spent the night at a Best Western in Okeechobee, Florida.
Neither of us slept great given the anticipation, but we
pack up and hit the road, heading toward Martin Correctional Institution.
(00:45):
Kenny's towards US forty one south US eight. So did
you see that sigh or prayer is the best way
to meet God? Trespassing is next. Continue on floridies for
(01:07):
four miles. I think this is really beautiful, out of
your though. It's been almost three years since we started
working on this story, and today we will finally be
meeting with Jeremy Scott. Driving the Martin Correctional Institution, we're
in and out of cell service range, but every time
(01:28):
service returns, my phone buzzes. I'm getting messages of support
from everyone who knows where we're heading. One of the
texts is from Chrissy. She offers a prediction about Jeremy's
mood and disposition. I think he'll be sweet, she tells me,
And as we drive, Kelsey and I are thinking about
all of the people we've talked to over the past
(01:50):
three years, people whose lives have been devastated by the
violence and the grief at the heart of the story.
And I'm thinking about the people who, despite that, or
maybe because of that, urged us to keep going, to
keep pushing and investigating. Like Jesse's psalm, Michelle's brother. I
(02:13):
want you guys to find the truth. I mean, whatever,
and however long it takes, it'll just bring peace to me,
you know what I mean. I can leave this world
knowing that at least it was solved and I know
for a fact what happened. And we're thinking about dan Odie,
who has tried not once but twice for the murder
(02:36):
of cab driver Joseph Laver, a murder Jeremy Scott seems
to be responsible for. I would love to just show everybody,
you know, don't matter what you think, this is really
who did it. Now, Now y'all can rest your thoughts
about me, because I'm not that way, never been. That
would be great. We're ten minutes out. How how are
(03:02):
you feeling? I feel I feel really good about this.
I feel like we've done all the preparation we know
so much. It's really just going to be about making
him feel comfortable and and just sort of establishing some
kind of trust. I mean, that's how you're feeling about
how it's going to go. How are you feeling about
(03:23):
the fact that we're finally sitting down with this person.
I don't know, it's like every day I just kept
checking my email, but you know, now here it is
an hour away from meeting him, and we're you know,
we have no none of those kind of emails saying
that the trips off. So I feel really good. That's
(03:43):
still all logistical stuff. What I mean, we're sitting down
with the person who killed Michelle, killed three other people.
Is you know, to some degree the reason Leo has
spent the past thirty three years in prison. Yeah, I
(04:07):
mean I think that's probably the reason why I'm talking
about logistical stuff, because you know, this is this is
really painful when you think about it, all the people
that we've met over the years, who whose lives have
been damaged because of what Jeremy did. That's that's going
to be the part that you know, it's in the
back of your mind, but I try to, like, I
(04:29):
feel like I just want to focus on him and
be sort of empathic to him so that he's in
a talking modes. I'm trying to like put all that
stuff in a in a compartment because it's just so painful.
That makes sense. Your destination is on the left. Okay, thanks,
(04:51):
but all right, let me just go up there and
take a look quality here. It's just hitting me that
(05:17):
we are not here to meet Leo. We are here
talk to Jeremy. Pulling up here and getting everything together.
It kind of seems routine because we've gone to see
(05:40):
Lego so many times, but this is super different. Actually
getting a little nervous. We've been preparing for this interview
for the past three weeks, but we've been hoping it
(06:01):
would happen for the past three years, and we've been
fishing for advice from anyone who'd come to know Jeremy
or who'd spoken to him in any capacity over the years.
We spoke to private investigator Pat McKenna, Judge Scott Cupp,
and Leo's current lawyers Andrew Crawford and Seth Miller. They
all think that the letters Jeremy's been writing to me
(06:23):
are an indication that he's ready to open up, But
it's Leo's advice that resonates with us the most. I
talked to him on the phone before going in to
see Jeremy. The state has passed us as opponents in
a chess game. Yeah, I'm not trying to play chess.
(06:46):
I'm not trying to pin something on him. I'm not.
That's not my objectives. We're out the truth, you know,
and and he's the one that supplied the truth, you know.
But I would really like him to know and feel
that myself and those who represent me are you know,
concern for his well being as well. You know. We
(07:08):
want we all to feel safe enough to tell the
truth to not you know, have to cover things up.
It's almost exactly like parties are at Shardi, same front
doors and the bathrooms are right across the way. We
arrive at Martin and this place looks remarkably similar to
Hardy Ci, where Leo is housed and where we've gone
(07:30):
through the security process half a dozen times. It's another
giant concrete complex surrounded by tall fences and lots of
barbed wire. We get to security and the guards give
us the personal body alarms, the little devices with the
button we're supposed to press in an emergency. We loop
it through our belts and hand over our IDs. The
(07:53):
warden meets us and leads us to a room where
the interview will take place. We don't know what to expect.
We don't know if Jeremy will be shackled and cuffed,
or if a guard will stay in the room with us.
I'm not expecting Hannibal Lecter in a mask to be
wheeled in, but I'm aware that Jeremy's attacked guards and
nurses at various facilities across the state. He's known to
(08:16):
act out in unpredictable ways. As the warden leaves, he
tells us to be careful not to let the inmate
touch the door because there's a latch. Knew the knob
that if flipped, would leave us locked in the room
alone with him. I can't even tell if he's fucking
with us. He definitely wasn't fucking with us, at least
(08:41):
when I got the impression that they were just going
to drop him off in the in the room. And
that's when I got a little nervous, because I'm like, oh,
responsible for Kelsey's gonna be sitting in a room with Kelly,
you know, I don't know how that's gonna go. We
don't need the armous. This one's better. You know, there
was two different kinds of chairs there. I'm like, all right,
the one that locks him in a little bit better.
(09:01):
And I was like, well, let's just put one with
arm rest on there. I'll just make it a little
bit harder for him to jump over the table to
get to us. I'm just trying to think about this stuff.
It's situated like you. I'll probably be exactly like this,
like leading in talking to him. Decide. Yeah, Jeremy, thanks
(09:28):
for coming. Testing one two three, testing one two three.
I'm gonna probably if he comes in, I'll get up
and greet him and shake hands. And I think you
should just stayst heated. I'm nervous now, but hopefull work.
(10:01):
Sure you don't want to do this about him? Yeah,
I'm positive, because you can't leave me alone in here
with them at any point. No, I'm not going to
do it. Don't worry. If you need to go now
go now, understood. Good sleep, Good sleep. He's coming, hi,
(10:42):
Jeremy bone Valley, Chapter nine, coming clean, h Jeremy. I'm
(11:12):
gonna be going around and this is Kelsey, if you
would sit over here and well we can talk to you.
He was about six foot, he's pretty slender build, has
blue eyes. And if you're comfortable with it removing your mask,
(11:34):
we're fine with that too. Yeah, okay with that. Yeah,
they just made me, made me when you got a
shave and stiff. They just maybe they made me go
get all his new clothes on and stuff. Are you kidding?
You know, he's a tall guy, and he's obviously can
be imposing, and you know when they brought him in,
(11:54):
he was not coughed um for some reason. I don't know.
I just I never felt threatened by him. I didn't.
He did not strike me as someone who was going
to be dangerous. And I think that was his body language,
you know, shaking his hand, he just kind of like
just sort of disappeared into himself as a very loose handshake.
All his confidence and everything that he might have thought
(12:16):
about himself as a young man is just gone. I
feel felt sorry for him really physically looking at him,
he just seemed like like a shell of a of
a man at this point, because really gonna do for me? Yeah,
I mean my life here is did you know? Yeah?
How do you like Martin so far? Do you feel
(12:37):
safer here? M not really, but I guess I ain't.
I would never feel safe in prison. Yeah. Yeah. One
of the things Kelsey and I had discussed in preparation
for this interview was the intention to follow Jeremy's lead
and everything we'd seen Jeremy had been questioned by someone
with a specific goal or agenda, a detective or a
(12:58):
lawyer who wants to get to the bottom of something,
a prosecutor looking for a particular story. We wanted him
to know that this would be different. Of course, we
had things we wanted to find out and leads we'd
be itching to follow, but we wanted Jeremy to be
at ease. We wanted to give him the freedom to
tell his story the way he wanted to tell it.
(13:19):
We wanted him to know that we were interested in
him and everything that entails. But that also means that sometimes,
in the middle of talking about one thing, he might pivot.
This happened pretty early in the interview. Jeremy casually mentions
the taxicab driver as he's telling us about an interaction
he had with his mother's boyfriend back in nineteen eighty seven.
(13:43):
He knew about it. He knew about the taxicab driver
because I told him Piero touched my MoMA killing and
I meant that, right. I'm just trying straight up, right.
I might have been a little drinking at that particular day, right,
and kind of slip. But we'd been hoping the taxi
(14:04):
cab driver would come up in conversation. We didn't want
it to feel confrontational. So when he brings it up,
we follow his lead. Can you talk a little bit.
You mentioned the taxi story, and I'm just curious, like
how that started. Can you just start that from the beginning. Well,
that happened, right, I haven't riot uh Schofield. We want
(14:28):
to ask more about Michelle, but for now we keep
Jeremy talking about the cab driver. And I, you know,
like I said, I've broke into a house and stole
gonna scared to death begun on me. Yeah. So Jeremy
mentions the same details he'd revealed in his letters about
(14:48):
finding the gun at a cops house. He broke into
an old three fifty seven magnum. But then he starts
getting into more of a narrative and his story it
fits with the information we already knew about the case.
So and I called it tasted, and he took me
down there and I was just gonna rob him. But
(15:11):
when I was pointed to gun, I guess it just
touched it. Boom. Yeah, it was it was like midnight.
But then I got in a task cab, turned the
car around. I was kind of speeding, went over the
tracks and I turned and the car slid, you know
(15:32):
because when them old yellow tactic cab got that got
an audiences in it. But then the car cast sliding,
you know, and and hit the side of a car,
and another car hit that car, and the tast cab
hit hit the pole right and he runs his fingers
across the table, drawing the streets of Intercession City, and
(15:53):
he uses his hands to show us the route the
taxicab traveled before it crashed. Jerry's hastily drawn tabletop map
matches what we've been able to piece together. But the
most striking parts aren't the details Jeremy's describing here. It's
the way he's telling it, shifting in his seat to
(16:15):
mimic the feel of the car as it slides into
a crash. He's moving his body as though he's reliving it.
It feels like we're in the car with him. I
can't imagine a lie being so embodied. Jeremy explains how
after he hits the pole, he jumps out of the
(16:35):
taxi and sees a group of people moving toward him
to see if anyone is hurt. But I yelled, I
got the car. I said, y'all run, run from a
blow right, And everybody just took all running or anyone
to see my face. So that's how I took all
did when you crashed the cab, you thought it was
it blow up. Yeah, he hit up the light boat
(17:00):
was just like sparkling. Nobody wants to take a chance.
This all matches what we know about the case. Witnesses
told the same story. One of the things we wanted
to know more about is that black hat found in
the taxicab, the one with the skull and the Confederate
flag that was left on the back seat. But we
(17:22):
don't even have to bring it up. I have a
hat and blown to my cousin Jason Scott or you
did now right but ahead of the name minute right,
and I left it in the car. I gamn that
kind of much evidence and I said, how would why
would anything with my family be in that car. Jeremy
(17:43):
seems shocked he never got caught. After killing the cab
driver and crashing the cab, he runs off into the woods,
and he says he hit out in an empty house
in Intercession City. He laid there for hours under a blanket,
just waiting for the police dogs to come and sniff
him out. I know it, sooner or later, it's going
to come back, Elmy. I did wait for it miss
(18:06):
a matter of time. But the dogs and the deputies
they never come. Nothing comes back on him, and it's
unclear if it ever will. Jeremy has now given a
full confession to the murder of Joseph Laverre, a confession
to a thirty five year old cold case. It's a
(18:27):
remarkable moment, but given everything we've been through, everything we've seen,
not a terribly surprising one. He'd already spontaneously confessed to
his girlfriend Jamie Nellum's more than three decades ago, and
his brother Royal Dean seemed to be aware of it too.
Jeremy had casually brought it up to two investigators from
(18:49):
the state, as though he was trying to see what
they knew, but the investigators laughed him off, and in
a letter he'd written to me, Jeremy had revealed some
seriously incriminating information about the murder. We'd taken this evidence
to the Ninth Circuit State Attorney's office and the Osciola
County Sheriff's office more than once. Even before this full confession,
(19:13):
I thought for sure we'd collected enough to convince someone
in power to look into the physical evidence collected from
the crime scene. I mean, during the original investigation of
the murder, fingerprints were lifted from the taxi cab and
hair was plucked from the seats. The fingerprints and the
hair could match to Jeremy, but the sheriff's office never
(19:36):
got back to us about whether or not they'd test
the evidence, or if it still exists, whether the state
will do anything to officially close this case, clearing dan
Odie's name and bringing closure to the family of Joseph Lavere.
That's yet to be seen. And in the meantime, here's
(19:59):
Jeremy freely admitting to the unsolved murder. He's coming clean.
But if nothing comes of it, it won't be the
first time in Jeremy's life that his efforts to tell
the truth were disregarded by the state of Florida. Hi,
(20:24):
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(21:10):
country's biggest problems, including the broken criminal justice system. Weldon
Angelos is one of those change makers. At the age
of twenty three, Weldon was arrested for a first time
offense of selling weed to a confidential informant. At the time,
he was a budding musician spending time with artists like
Tupac Snoop Dog, Pink and naz. His entire life was
(21:34):
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(21:58):
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(22:19):
on Drugs podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get
your podcasts. For a few minutes, I just want to
(22:40):
talk about John Aguero. Part of our investigation is into
some of the things I wanted to ask Jeremy about
the meeting he'd had with the prosecutor in two thousand
and five. That was the meeting that motivated John Aguero
to close the investigation into Jeremy for the murder of
Michelle's Scofield. During that meeting, Jeremy was brought from state
(23:03):
prison into John Aguero's office. There were no witnesses present,
and Aguero did not record the meeting, so we only
have John Aguero's account, the one he testified to at
Leo's evidentiary hearing in twenty ten. Now I want to
hear Jeremy's side of the story. What kind of thing
(23:26):
was Aguero telling you when when they said, oh, we
found your fingerprints in this car? How that will come out?
And he said, what was what was you doing with car?
I said, I break in cars? I mean, NA, no
secret what I do on the streets, you know. Oh
I'm told him basically everything when I tell everybody else, Yeah,
(23:46):
what I couldn't use. I threw in the trash, you know,
clean the car out the best I could, you know.
That's why I said. I was probably when they said
at pump print and we issue. But as when jerk
stereo out in here, Jeremy, do you remember anything about
John Aquera offering you immunity all he offered to sit
(24:08):
on my hearing? He said, well he has he has
a lot of influence. Bro hearing Columby it never happens.
But he didn't mention immunity. Like, he didn't say, if
you confess right now to killing Michelle, we won't charge you.
(24:29):
You have immunity. He never said anything like that. Now
he won't do that. He won't do that, So he didn't.
He didn't. You didn't ever hear him say that you
have immunity. Okay, all you say it was I'm gonna
be sitting on your hearing, and he said, what I
say on that hearing goes a long ways. He said,
it's your freedom and ask them that's enough for me.
(24:50):
We asked Jeremy about immunity three times because we want
to be sure he understands. This is an important point.
The state has really lied on this story about John
Aguero's offer of immunity so heavily to prove that Jeremy
is just a car stereo thief and not a murderer,
because they reason if Jeremy really killed Michelle Scofield, he
(25:14):
certainly would have said so when offered immunity. But we're
not sure that Jeremy understands what immunity is, and he
has no recollection of any such offer from Aguero. Again,
we've tried, and Leo's lawyers have tried to request documentation
for this alleged immunity offer, but the state has never
(25:36):
produced anything. Jeremy remembers John Aguero offering a different kind
of help that if Jeremy stuck to his stereo theft story,
Aguero would help him with his parole. But that's not
all Jeremy says happened in John Aguero's office. Michelle, did
(25:59):
he ask you were Yeah, Yeah, I killed I told
him I've killed him. You said, you told him in
the in the office when he was asking about the fingerprints.
That's where I told him, Matt, when I told him
straight up, I said, I told him I had something
to it. And he still didn't believe me. And he
(26:21):
wasn't recording you or anything, just me and him an
office station him. Jeremy says that in that same meeting,
Aguero showed him aerial photos of the canal, and even
though Michelle's body can't be seen from that high above,
Jeremy says, he pointed to the exact spot in the
(26:42):
photo where her body was found. He showed me some
pictures that the case of Michelle. I had a point
out areas to him where the body was at. Yeah,
because where the body was at the only person put
it there was the person that put it there. And
(27:02):
I stressed him because I seen the helicopper pictures from
the boat and I'm looking at him. I mean, yeah,
I'm all laid out. There's no way you can't describe.
You can't describe nobody in that lake and I and
I pointed out to him, Yeah, that's I know it.
Jeremy Scott claims he confessed to the murder of Michelle
(27:25):
Schofield to Assistant state Attorney John Aguero in two thousand
and five when he was confronted with the fingerprint evidence,
and according to Jeremy, Aguero told him he didn't want
to hear it, but you're very insistent. Aguero knew about
this all along. He knew it, He knew it was
gonna fall out like this. He knew, he knew everything,
(27:48):
but he didn't care. But when you know, well, when
when when I brought something up to him, he didn't
it didn't he didn't want to hear that. We can
never know whether this conversation actually happened or not because
John Aguero didn't record the meeting, and Aguero is no
longer alive. So what was John Aguero hoping to accomplish
(28:12):
in that room alone with Jeremy. Why would a prosecutor
go into a room with someone like Jeremy Scott without
a witness and without a tape recorder unless for some
reason he doesn't want to create a record of that conversation.
Why do you think the state will not believe your confession?
(28:33):
I don't think it ain't that they don't believe me.
They don't want to want to bring all that back
out undercover. And I'm glad. I think there probably was
more stuff that married underneath that guerre role stuff, and
they just ain't never went and looking. If you had
to open him some of them cases, I mean, you
(28:54):
had to really investigate the prosecutor. That's when he needs
to be doing. Yeah, prosecutor's gonna gonna do what they
gotta do. Ye know. It's like it's like it's like
they knew, they knew when they brought me in that day,
(29:14):
they knew I had something to do with that, but
like they ain't got time to, you know, to go
through all these paperworking. Yeah, they're just trying to cover
it up because it's all it is. It's gonna open
more doors, and it's gonna open more doors. For where
(29:41):
I was sitting, I could see him doing a lot
of fidgeting, and when when the conversation got a little
more difficult, he would definitely like start scratching his arms
and his hands. And at one point I looked and
I saw it his fingers were start sort of facing me,
and I remembered he had hate h at across his
knuckles and you could see him sort scratching that. Oh.
(30:02):
I just reminded Gilbert that he has love on the
other hand. Um, And you know we'd seen that before
on on documents, that he had these tattoos. And I
think there are a couple of times where hate is
maybe the only tattoo mentioned. But you know, he does
have love on the other hand. Your sort of letters
(30:24):
started out saying you you came back to perry Um
in Christmas eighty six and asked Dave Rtel to January.
You know, I left, I started walking back towards Pope County,
that's where I hang out it. I went back down
here in Brown February. By the time it starts pouring
(30:48):
out a rain, and that's when that's when, uh, when
I ran it to in Michelle. It was February. It
was raining that night. But that's well, that's we're all
begin Could you could you tell us that story. I
(31:09):
found a good story to talk about. No, it's not.
You know what your detailed in the letter was was really,
um very detailed. And you talked about the gas station,
and we just figured to hear it in your words, Yeah,
this is a case. It should never happen. It was
just one of them, out of flute, thanks, out of air, raining, starving,
(31:36):
no place sleep. Then we started kind of getting into
the Michelle stuff. And as soon as that happened, you know,
he had they have their like cloth face masks that
are made out of the same material as their prison uniforms.
So he had his face mask in his hand and
(31:57):
he started like folding it, you know, wrapping the strings,
and I could just tell he was starting to get anxious.
He knew, you know, the kind of stuff we were
going to be asking about. So you were walking down
like Cumby Road and you come into this gas station
and you know, I'm sitting I was sitting there at By.
She was on the phone talking to somebody, and when
(32:19):
she got all shit, I needed phone, I said, no,
She said, why are you all you know Chris raining
you know? I said, he got a ride, you know,
so she gave me a ride. He said in one
of your letters that she she was nice to you.
She was nice to give me a ride her own.
That's where that's where it hurts me more. Girls light
(32:45):
day don't girls light day don't. Don't don't pick up people.
Why do you think she picked you up? And when
you were a stranger to her ors? I don't think
I was. Apparently because she she she wanted to pick
up anybody. Why that's what's been bothered me. Apparently we
know each other first, you know, glance or or a
(33:06):
rent at a party or a song or a school
or whatever. You know, don't what did you tell Did
you tell her you want to take you somewhere? Or
how did you I asked her to taming down in
North Clumby. Did you guys talk about anything in the
car as you're riding. I'm just kind of quiet because
it was a short ride to where you were going?
(33:26):
Short rid? So what happens when you take her back
into that area? Further apologized to her, but she went
to screaming and panicking and stuff. And that's that's one
I guess I've lost it. Damn. Was she saying anything
(33:46):
to you or just she was just screamed and that
is it. She at you said, no, we're you mentioned
that she was hitting you. How did that happen? You know,
because she she's in job receipt all right, You're just
just like not enough to really wrot. But one of
the things I wanted to ask you about is and
(34:08):
he wrote in one of your letters that at one
point she tried to drive away. Oh well, that's I
think that's what really put the put the car and
heat really yeah, because when she did I reached ime
rather that the ship and putt put in part and
that was the last of that. So when you say
(34:32):
you lost it, what do you mean by that? I
mean my sight, I'm not a very good person. When
it is in this site department, I got a history.
From where I was sitting, I could see that, um,
his his whole arm was just scar tissue. He had
(34:57):
so many, probably like hundreds of cut marks on his arms,
which is something we knew that you know he had
that and that that was something he did. But you know,
sitting there, I yeah, I was trying not to stare.
He said, you apologize to her? Huh, he said, you
(35:20):
apologize to yea, What did you applize from what I'm doing?
What are you doing? Huh? Was gonna steal the car?
Then when she went on that moves stuff, man, I
really got panic. M that's when I had that that
(35:41):
that that that knife. It's just like, ah, it's a
honey knife. They come in twins, Yeah, blowing to my
uncle's kids. I took one of them, but I ain't
think anything it would do that much damage because they
knew they ain't been sharpened. They just got It's just it.
(36:07):
They happened so fast, Yeah, because once it happened, it
just happened so fast. He doesn't get into the stabbing
that much. He just says, I don't know how many
times I stabbed here. I lost it and he just
doesn't want to talk about it. And I think it's trauma,
(36:29):
that's that's. I just think that he's finding some self
defense mechanism to sort of block out the worst parts
of his memory. Because you could tell how how upsetting
they worked to him, and that was kind of surprising
to me, Like this hardened, you know, killer who's been
in prison, who's seen the worst violence of anybody I
I'll ever meet um. And you know, he was emotional
(36:52):
and he was definitely getting upset, and it I almost
felt like we had a responsibility to sort of protect him,
to not go to far. He'd also gotten agitated in
the past when people have tried to press him to
get more into that, and I didn't want to, you know,
upset him and lose our chance to talk to him further. Well,
(37:16):
I dragged her out in the car, put her on him.
There was a doll like plastic wrapped around down by
the creek, so I wrapped and wrapped in up and air,
slid down by the creek and put a popable box
over it so so it couldn't be seen. Jeremy says
(37:38):
that after wrapping Michelle in plastic, he dragged her body
into the water, then took the Mazda. So I got
in the car and if wen't trying to go up
by an I four and got halfway and it stoled
up on when you went on I four, Where were
you headed? Oh? My family. I got family living during Casimi,
(38:00):
so I do a lot of walking between Cassime and
polk counting. But then the car stalled out. What was
it like smoking or it's just like it's just stalled out.
It's like you know, when you're running an engine too
much in June. So Michelle's car just stopped running. And
(38:27):
Jeremy says the detectives must not have looked closely at
the car on the side of by four, because he
says if they had, they would have asked the questions
that Kelsey and I had been asking ourselves, questions the
state never bothered with. Why was the car partner? Why?
That's all it was was stalled because putting too much
(38:49):
gas on it, Try and move it and it stalled out.
How my car still stayed there? Dude? Um, when you
were driving and the car broke down and you mentioned
something about finding a towel and using that to wipe
down everything, Now that I used that was that was
tossing in the in the bag that was thrown in
(39:10):
a trash can. So, but they still should have found
a lot of evidence. They should have found all of that. Instead,
it's just a fanger print. What about my about my
shoeprint and the gas pump? Yeah, what about the staring wheel?
The seats I'm doing so they ain't do the proper job.
(39:39):
Here we are inside a prison interviewing the man who
was claiming responsibility for Michelle Scofield's murder, and he's listing
all the ways the state of Florida failed to investigate
his crime. I think about the evidence that was found
but was never tested. The hair is found on the
(39:59):
car and on Michelle's body, and the scrapings from beneath
her fingernails. But by the time Jeremy was linked to
the Mazda, much of the untested evidence had been destroyed
or degraded. And at the same time, Jeremy says he
did make an attempt to clean up You know what,
(40:20):
It is interesting what you're saying, because they did. They
never found any of the Schofield prints in the car.
They weren't there, So it sort of fits that you
wiped it down to you pretty careful about that or
that particular nightdare Oh good. I think I'm probam one
probation right, So I had to be careful. We've gone
(40:45):
through Leo's story from the night Michelle went missing and
the States version that was presented to the jury. But
now we're able to piece together Jeremy's story through what
he's telling us, what he's written to us through letters,
and what he's told Leo's lawyers in the past. It's
(41:07):
the night of February twenty fourth, nineteen eighty seven. Jeremy
comes upon a young woman using the pay phone at
a gas station on Coumby Road. He'd been drinking Thunderbird
wine that night, and he admits that wine makes him violent.
(41:28):
It's drizzling out and he's broke, and the young woman
sees him standing there. She says, I know you. Jeremy
doesn't recognize her, but it's Michelle Scofield. He says he's
not good with faces, and he guesses she must remember
him from a party or something. When she asks if
(41:49):
he needs the phone, he says no, he needs a ride.
Just up Cumby Road. Jeremy gets in the passenger seat
of the Mazda and gives Michelle directions. He asked her
to take him to a trailer park on Northcumby Road,
but they drive past it instead. He directs her a
little further onto State Road thirty three, then has her
(42:12):
turn right onto a dirt road through a cut in
the tree line. There are no houses back here, Michelle
tells him. Jeremy makes some kind of comment, this is
where people come to make out at He's thinking maybe
he can get laid, but Michelle tells him she's married.
(42:33):
Jeremy fumbles in his jacket pocket. He says he reaches
for his cigarettes, but his knife falls out. He must
have threatened her. Whether it was to steal her car
or to rape her, it's unclear, but Jeremy says. Michelle
sees the knife and panics. She tries to drive away,
(42:55):
but he slams the car into park. She starts hitting him,
and that's when Jeremy says he lost it and he
attacked her for whatever reason. Jeremy either can't or won't
elaborate on the actual act itself. He says he doesn't
remember how many times he stabbed her. He also says
(43:17):
the stabbing took place in the car, but listening to
him tell it, I got the sense that the stabbing
began in the car. Michelle managed to open the door,
and Jeremy says she fell out onto the dirt where
her blood was found. I killed her, he says, and
(43:37):
he leaves it at that. Jeremy says that after the attack,
he rapped Michelle up in some plastic he found near
by and dragged her down to the canal. Then he
put a piece of plywood on top of her to
protect her from the snakes and gaiters, he says. He
(44:02):
then gets back in the car and sees ten dollars
in the center console, which he pockets. He smokes a
cigarette and takes off in the Mazda. He drives about
half a mile north and merges onto I four. He
gets six or so miles east when the Mazda stalls
out and he's forced to pull over. Once the car
(44:25):
grinds to a stop, Jeremy grabs something like a towel,
he says, and he starts wiping the car down to
remove his fingerprints. There's a gas station off the exit
ramp at the top of the hill, so Jeremy heads
there with the towel and the knife. It's late and
the gas station is closed, but he sees a dumpster
(44:45):
and buries the knife in the towel in the trash.
He crosses the highway to hitchhike back to Lakeland, but
when he sees the Mazda again, he decides to steal
the stereo. He can't pry it out, so he steals
the equalizer mounted to the dash below it, and he
takes the speakers from the back. He makes it back
(45:07):
to Lakeland somehow and falls asleep and an abandoned trailer.
There are several parts of Jeremy's story that stand out
to me because they match other evidence I've seen or
piece together. At times, he offers an explanation for things
(45:27):
the state never even attempted to explain. For one, the
state never presented a theory about why the car was
found on the eastbound side of I four miles outside
of Lakeland, but Jeremy does. After killing Michelle, he says
he was headed towards Kassimmee, where he had family. That's
(45:50):
the direction the Mazda was heading. That's also the direction
he would drive the following year in nineteen eighty eight,
when he went to his mom's trailer after killing Donald
moorehead and stealing his Chevy Baretta. The state doesn't dwell
on the Mazda's condition or location. It's Jeremy who accounts
(46:11):
for this and describes what it felt like driving the
vehicle as it broke down. And then there's the evidence
Jeremy left in the car. One of his fingerprints was
lifted from inside of the driver's side window. Another fingerprint
was found in the back of the vehicle where the
speakers were. It was on a receipt near the downy
(46:33):
bottle that was smeared with Michelle's blood. I've spent so
much time studying the photos taken from the crime scene.
I've tried to piece together the events based on the
location of the blood stains, the drag marks, and the dirt,
and the location of Michelle's body. Michelle's blood is pooled
in the dirt. The stains are where the driver's side
(46:56):
of the Mazda would be if it turned onto the
narrow dirt road beside the canal. So the location of
the bloodstains are consistent with Jeremy's telling that after he
stabbed her, she opened the door and fell out of
the car. I think Jeremy then got out of the car,
came around to her side, and continued to stab her
(47:17):
in that spot, I think that's where she was killed.
That's where most of her blood was found. There are
drag marks leading from the bloodstains to the canal, and
coins a quarter a nickel and a penny in the
dirt alongside the path of the drag marks. They must
have fallen from Michelle's pockets while Jeremy was dragging her.
(47:41):
Jeremy says he rapped Michelle's body in plastic. Police never
collected any plastic from the scene, but if you look
at the crime scene photos, you can see several plastic tarps,
just like Jeremy describes, right there among the garbage, but
they weren't taken into evidence. If Jeremy's telling the truth,
(48:04):
one of those plastic sheets may have had Michelle's blood
on it or Jeremy's fingerprints. And there's another thing in
those police photos that caught my eye. A pack of
Marlborough cigarettes. Were you smoking too? You said something about
going in the car and smoke, Yeah, I smartis pack? Dude?
(48:26):
What kind of cigarettes did you smoke? Marlborough's? Okay, this
pack of Marlborough's wasn't far from the bloodstains and the
drag marks. And again it was photographed like evidence, but
it was never taken in never process for fingerprints. Why
did police photographed this pack of Marlborough's but not collected
(48:50):
There's one other thing that I've been hung up on
these past three years. No one, none of Michelle's family,
none of her friends or co workers, ever claimed to
have seen her or spoken with her in the hours
following that final ninety five PM phone call that she
made to Leo from the payphone at Sparky's gas station.
(49:13):
If Leo supposedly killed Michelle in a fit of rage
right after his twelve forty three am phone call to
the Polk County Sheriff's office, where was Michelle during those
three hours after she called Leo? She said she'd be
right over, but she never showed so who was she with?
What was she doing? The state could not produce a
(49:36):
single witness to answer these questions about Michelle's whereabouts. After
hearing Jeremy's version of events, the answer seems pretty obvious
to me. Michelle never made it to Leo that night
because she ran into Jeremy Scott. He approached her at
the payphone, and then minutes later she was dead. That's
(50:01):
why no one else can claim they heard from her
or saw her within those three hours. Jeremy Scott was
the last person to see Michelle's Schofield alive. What was
going through your mind? After you did all this and
you took the car, where were you thinking, like, I'm
gonna just drive back to Cosineme or I'll be honest
(50:25):
with you. That's my whole point. I wasn't thinking I'm goad.
If I was, I would have never in and done
what I did. That's something that shouldn't never happen. It
wasn't playing that shouldn't that shouldn't never happen. I should
(50:46):
have swallowed my pride and went to it, went down,
went to Salvation army. Everybody was you know, February is
raining when a whole lot of a whole lot of
I could think about it. I mean back then, when
(51:06):
you're young, don't be thinking that's the thing until it's
so boy, Then then reality hits you. Then years go by,
and that's one. Really the reality really hits you, U
because you I have to live with this every day.
(51:29):
Can you describe that? What does it like to live
with that? Sound a good feeling? This way? It's pretty
the way I dream I wake up. I turned over,
I said, I said, A dead body speaking next to me.
I see what dead bodies every night when I go
(51:49):
to bed. That's my punishment. This shit gets me so scared.
I sneak with it every night, trudgement. That's not a
good sight. H Is that part of the reason that
(52:12):
you're talking to us? But you're just thinking about these
things I've been. I've been, it's been getting it's been
one to come out though, you know, it's just a
matter of time, because if I don't say it now,
it's not guaranteed. I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna walk down
that sidewalk. I'm like that getting stabbed up. Yeah, because
(52:34):
you don't know what's gonna happen out here, you know, Yeah,
because many might put a hit on you. Yeah, it
feels important to you to talk about it. It does.
I mean, it ain't gonna never, it ain't gonna change.
I mean it can change. It ain't gonna change nothing
(52:58):
for me, but it can change something for her. You
don't know, she ain't here but for her family though.
You know, one of the things we did last it's
just if you if you ever think about Michelle now,
I do all the time. I pray for her every night, Tory,
(53:20):
when I lay down, I sleep with her. Can get out?
Can get away? That's a nightmare. What do you pray about.
It's raight for a lot of things, bad spirits. M
(53:42):
I messed with the spirits too much. But nah, as
far as Michelle, she was just at the wrong time,
wrong place and everything you happens when you're young and
not think can she deserves better than now, and she
(54:08):
she'll get it. I think once this gets cleared up,
she can breast. But first first, Leo, I don't I
don't even speak for for this case. Yeah, Leo, Leo,
(54:32):
Leo innocent of all of all things. He's innocent on this.
I've been trying to help him. I'm doing everything I could.
I'm trying to help you out, but they don't want
(54:54):
me help him out. All right, man man had been
in prison thirty three years. He needs to be up. Yeah,
that man ain't doing nothing. He's innocent. We sat down
(55:42):
with Leo before we interviewed Jeremy. He has a copy
of one of the letters Jeremy wrote to me. It
meant more to Leo than I could have known. Leo
now carries it around with him, folded up and tucked
into the pocket of his blue prison uniform. You know
that I received a letter from Jeremy A couple of
weeks ago. Yeah, I carried around in my pocket every
(56:05):
day except today. They don't let me bring anything here.
So do you think of it? Well, obviously, I believe
that he's the murder of my life. I believe he's
also been trying to say that for a long time.
The letter that Leo carries with him is one of
the first letters I received from Jeremy. It says, in part,
(56:28):
dear mister King, I don't know what it is that
you want to know about Polk County prosecutors. They lied.
That's why I told the whole truth about Leo Schofield.
And I had also told them things that a killer
would know. Leo didn't kill his wife. I did. I
(56:57):
read those words Leo didn't kill his wife. I did
a very simple verb. When I first read it. I'm
not kidding. I had chills, and I get chills every
time I do it, because he's nothing like I was expecting.
He's not. He's not the the three headed monster that
(57:18):
had to have done something like this to someone as
wonderful and beautiful as Michelle was. You have to be
a monster to do that, and he's not. He's just
a pathetic human being. That's been messed up. You know,
he's had a really rough go as I'm sure you're
aware of now, even in the prison, and I do
believe he's sorry. But it just shows you that he
(57:39):
has a heart. He does have a heart. You know
that he's not a monster. He's not what I was
looking for. You know, I've always wanted the truth, and
I thank him for the truth. We both, in different worlds,
needed redemption over the same issue. You know. When I
look in the mirror, I got to look at a
man who let his wife get murdered, you know, and
at some point I needed redemption. I needed to be
(58:01):
rebuilt into something that I could live with, you know,
And I see Jeremy in that same light, you know,
in a different frame, a different storyline. You know, he's
he's the he's the the one who put all this
into play. You know, he's the man holding the knife,
and so he needs his own redemption, you know. You
know what, I thank God for that. I thank God
(58:24):
for that, because without that, I don't think we have
to get to the bottom of it. And very few
people know the truth, you know. Now there's a bigger
story to tell, you know, and where it goes from
here and we'll see. It's been more than three years
(58:46):
since Judge Scott Cupp first handed me his business card,
three years since I first read the words he'd written
on the back. Leo Schofield not just wrongfully convicted, He's
an innocent man. In the time since, Kelsey and I
have spent twenty plus hours sitting across a table from
Leo in a cinderblock prison room, listening to him talk
(59:10):
about the moments of his adolescence that came to define
his entire life. I have dozens of letters and emails
from him, and we talk regularly on the phone, and
I'm in constant touch with his family. Leo's daughter, Ashley
is now a mother with two baby boys. Today, Leo's
(59:30):
grandsons visit him on that same patch of grass outside
the visitation pavilion where he says he raised Ashley. Even
the guards at Hardy, who know Chrissie and Ashley and
the boys, they tell us they don't want to see
Leo's grandsons grow up visiting the prison. They know Leo
needs to be home. When Leo had opportunities to have
(59:53):
his case reviewed in court, I shared in his hope
for justice, and when those opportunities were to I shared
in the heartbreak. With no realistic legal options left to pursue,
Leo's waiting on his next parole hearing, where once again
Leo will refuse to apologize for a crime he did
(01:00:14):
not commit, and once again the state will argue against
his parole because of this. So he's waiting on parole
and he's waiting on this story to come out. I'm
acutely aware of the hope this project has given Leo
and his family. It's conflicting. I believe in his story
(01:00:38):
and I'm honored to be able to tell it, but
I also know that there are no guarantees it'll make
any difference in Leo's life. I wish I could make
those promises, but I know I can't. I don't even
want to say thank you anymore, Gilbert, I can't say
any of that. Yeah, but it's my heart. Wouldn't be
here if we didn't believe in this, gil would I
(01:00:59):
wouldn't be here if you didn't believe in this stuff.
I would not be here if you did not believe
in this stuff. And I am dead serious about that,
because I am tired. I am tired. I don't carry
just my hurt. I carry the hurt of my family.
I carry a ton of hurt of the men that
I serve here. I mean, every single one of them
(01:01:19):
come to me every day. When are you getting on
her here? You know what I mean? And I carry
a lot, and it's heavy, It's freaking heavy, and sometimes
I get hopeless. Sometimes I feel like it's getting so
far away and I'm going in the wrong direction. And
that's just the feeling. I'm not saying that it is,
you know, in this confession. Just it's like how many
(01:01:40):
times do I got to hear it? How many times
does he have to say it? I get it. But
we're putting this story together and I think, I just
don't want you to underplay your part. No, you can't.
My life depended on it. You gave me the hope, Gilbert.
That's the truth. Scott knows. Scott felt like he gave
(01:02:01):
you hope one time, and he did and he did. Yeah,
But you know what, it's the relationship that I have
with him that sustains me even now. I love that man.
He's a brother to me. I love that man, and
I am not going to let him down. And I'm
not going to let you down. And I'm sustained that way,
So it doesn't matter what happens. It matters that people
have bonded. You know, we've become a family of sorts.
(01:02:24):
That matters. That matters, It counts because it's all I got,
That's it, and you know what, that's all I need,
That's all I need. Leo is trying to reassure me
that he's going to be okay regardless of what happens
after the story comes out, because after thirty five years,
(01:02:49):
he knows better than to hope for anything more from
the state of Florida. You're Notber of twenty twenty one,
Leo was going to be playing a concert one afternoon
at Hardy with his band, The Watchers. We couldn't get
permission to record, but I decided to fly down for
(01:03:10):
the concert anyway, knowing what it would mean to Leo
to have me there. I just wanted to see him
with his bandmates and the men in his congregation, his brothers.
The assistant warden meets me at security and escorts me
to the God behind Bars building. As we're walking, I
(01:03:33):
see a flyer posted to a wall announcing the concert
the Watchers. It reads with special guest Gilbert King. Once
I get inside, I see Leo surrounded by his brothers.
They're all in their prison blue uniforms with white stripes
down the pants. He comes over, we hug, and he
(01:03:54):
introduces me to his bandmates. They all tell me they've
been passing around the same taped up copy of my book,
Devil in the Grove. It's a book I sent to
Leo more than three years ago. They all thank me
for looking into Leo's case. Inside this building, the inmates
move around freely, joking and drinking coffee. There are very
(01:04:17):
few guards. You get the sense that nobody's really worried
about the men here, who continue to file in for
the concert. Before the Watchers take the stage, Leo says
he wants to show me something, so he leads me
in the assistant warden through the library to Adore in
the back. It's the war Room, that small gray room
(01:04:40):
tacked with prayer requests, the place where Leo came in
his darkest of times, to pray for Jeremy Scott, trying
to forgive him. Leo steps inside and gets noticeably choked up.
He knows I'm aware of the story that in twenty sixteen,
just a few days days after tacking up his prayer
(01:05:01):
request for Jeremy Scott, Leo received the news that Jeremy
confessed to killing Michelle. But the assistant warden is new
and as Leo begins to explain the significance of this
room to him, he catches himself, realizing this story is
too long and complicated for a stranger to absorb, so
(01:05:23):
he just tells us that the inmates are lucky to
have a place and a program like this at Hardy,
and the assistant warden seems pleased to hear it. As
we move towards the stage, I meet Leo's longtime friend,
cellmate and songwriting partner Kevin Herrick. Leo taught him to
play guitar more than twenty years ago when Kevin first
(01:05:45):
came to Hardy. Kevin also tells me Leo taught him
how to be a man and a man of God,
he says. Leo takes the stage and picks up the
mic to rousing applause. There's a full drum set and
a keyboard and amps ready to go. Leo's got reading
glasses on and he's carrying a leather bound Bible in
(01:06:08):
his hands. He tells the crowd that it's not God's
plan for them to be destroyed in this prison, and
he begins a sermon on self worth and dignity. Then
Leo points to me in the audience. He might not
look at but this man is a friggan bulldog, he says,
And then he tells the story about how Judge Scott
(01:06:29):
Cupp handed me a business card with Leo's name on it,
and how Kelsey and I have been investigating his case
for years. I stand up, not expecting this, and say
something about storytelling and how honored I feel to be
invited to share this time with them, before giving the
mic back to Leo. Leo's glasses come off and the
(01:06:51):
music begins. Inmates clapp and sing along with hands outstretched.
Some of these men have been here for decades, men
(01:07:14):
who mentored Leo when he first arrived in the system.
They're dancing. Leo's boss from maintenance is here. Even the
guards are clapping and moving to the music. Are you here, lads?
(01:07:38):
Sorrow's dances sy The lyrics may be spiritual, but the
sound is pure nineteen eighties rock. Leo and Kevin are
trading solos, shredding their two guitars, dueling it out. Leo's
(01:08:02):
working up a sweat, leaning on Kevin's shoulder. The two
men are laughing and nodding encouragement at each other. It's
not hard for me to imagine Leo, the teenager with
long black hair, his shirt off, standing on some flatbed
truck in the woods in Polk County, playing for free
beer with his old band Rhino. Michelle is there too,
(01:08:26):
She's dancing by the bonfire, cheering on the band. Maybe
I imagine they'd have made it to the Lakelands Civic
Center someday to open for Iron Maiden or Deaf Leopard.
But that life and those dreams disappeared thirty five years
(01:08:47):
ago on a cold, damp night in February of nineteen
eighty seven, when Jeremy Scott took Michelle's life and the
State of Florida took Leo's freedom. After the show, I
left the prison and I had a few hours to
kill before getting to the airport in Orlando, so I
(01:09:10):
took the back roads for one more drive through Bone Valley.
The sun was beginning to set on the phosphate capitol
of the world, casting a golden hue on the towering
gypsum stacks in the distant horizon. I went past Tom's
Restaurant where Michelle worked, and the gas station on Cumbey
(01:09:32):
Road where she spoke her very last words to Leo
over an old payphone. I went by the trailer part
right up the road where Jeremy used to stay with
his grandmother. Then on to State Road thirty three, passing
that drainage canal hidden behind palmetto bushes. I turned onto
(01:09:56):
I four and passed the exit ramp where Shells Mazda
broke down, and the gas station on the hill where
a cheap knife with a compass on the handle one
slide buried in a dumpster, never to be found. I
wanted one more look at all the places in Bone Valley,
(01:10:16):
the places Kelsey and I have visited and revisited and
thought about every day for the past three years, Places
that are still seared into Leo's mind thirty five years later.
For now, this is where the story has to end.
Leo Scofield and Jeremy Scott have settled on the truth
(01:10:40):
of what happened on that February night back in nineteen
eighty seven. There's nothing more to say unless the State
of Florida decides to write the final chapter. This may
be the closest Leo Scofield ever gets to true justice
for himself. Inform Achelle, do you hear my mans? To
(01:11:19):
my fears, sorrows, depths singles? In this vastlyti, I see olation,
(01:11:41):
I reach desperation to the words on the star. To
the Bone Valley is a production of Lava for Good
(01:12:27):
Podcast in association with Signal Company Number One. Our executive
producers are Jason Flam and Kevin Wurdis. Karak Kornhaber is
our senior producer. Brit Spangler is our sound designer. Roxandra
Guidi is our editor. Fact checking by Maximo Anderson. Our
(01:12:49):
producer and researcher is Kelsey Decker. The One Who's Holding
the Stars is performed by Lee Bob and The Truth.
It was written by Leo Schofield and Kevin Herrick and
was performed during this episode by the watchers at Florida's
Hearty Correctional Institution. Bone Valley is written and produced by
(01:13:09):
me Gilbert King. You can follow the show on Instagram, Facebook,
and Twitter.
Okay, big day, Let's let's go go bert Um yep,
(00:15):
I got everything. It's September sixteenth, twenty twenty one. Kelsey
and I spent the night at a Best Western in Okeechobee, Florida.
Neither of us slept great given the anticipation, but we
pack up and hit the road, heading toward Martin Correctional Institution.
(00:45):
Kenny's towards US forty one south US eight. So did
you see that sigh or prayer is the best way
to meet God? Trespassing is next. Continue on floridies for
(01:07):
four miles. I think this is really beautiful, out of
your though. It's been almost three years since we started
working on this story, and today we will finally be
meeting with Jeremy Scott. Driving the Martin Correctional Institution, we're
in and out of cell service range, but every time
(01:28):
service returns, my phone buzzes. I'm getting messages of support
from everyone who knows where we're heading. One of the
texts is from Chrissy. She offers a prediction about Jeremy's
mood and disposition. I think he'll be sweet, she tells me,
And as we drive, Kelsey and I are thinking about
all of the people we've talked to over the past
(01:50):
three years, people whose lives have been devastated by the
violence and the grief at the heart of the story.
And I'm thinking about the people who, despite that, or
maybe because of that, urged us to keep going, to
keep pushing and investigating. Like Jesse's psalm, Michelle's brother. I
(02:13):
want you guys to find the truth. I mean, whatever,
and however long it takes, it'll just bring peace to me,
you know what I mean. I can leave this world
knowing that at least it was solved and I know
for a fact what happened. And we're thinking about dan Odie,
who has tried not once but twice for the murder
(02:36):
of cab driver Joseph Laver, a murder Jeremy Scott seems
to be responsible for. I would love to just show everybody,
you know, don't matter what you think, this is really
who did it. Now, Now y'all can rest your thoughts
about me, because I'm not that way, never been. That
would be great. We're ten minutes out. How how are
(03:02):
you feeling? I feel I feel really good about this.
I feel like we've done all the preparation we know
so much. It's really just going to be about making
him feel comfortable and and just sort of establishing some
kind of trust. I mean, that's how you're feeling about
how it's going to go. How are you feeling about
(03:23):
the fact that we're finally sitting down with this person.
I don't know, it's like every day I just kept
checking my email, but you know, now here it is
an hour away from meeting him, and we're you know,
we have no none of those kind of emails saying
that the trips off. So I feel really good. That's
(03:43):
still all logistical stuff. What I mean, we're sitting down
with the person who killed Michelle, killed three other people.
Is you know, to some degree the reason Leo has
spent the past thirty three years in prison. Yeah, I
(04:07):
mean I think that's probably the reason why I'm talking
about logistical stuff, because you know, this is this is
really painful when you think about it, all the people
that we've met over the years, who whose lives have
been damaged because of what Jeremy did. That's that's going
to be the part that you know, it's in the
back of your mind, but I try to, like, I
(04:29):
feel like I just want to focus on him and
be sort of empathic to him so that he's in
a talking modes. I'm trying to like put all that
stuff in a in a compartment because it's just so painful.
That makes sense. Your destination is on the left. Okay, thanks,
(04:51):
but all right, let me just go up there and
take a look quality here. It's just hitting me that
(05:17):
we are not here to meet Leo. We are here
talk to Jeremy. Pulling up here and getting everything together.
It kind of seems routine because we've gone to see
(05:40):
Lego so many times, but this is super different. Actually
getting a little nervous. We've been preparing for this interview
for the past three weeks, but we've been hoping it
(06:01):
would happen for the past three years, and we've been
fishing for advice from anyone who'd come to know Jeremy
or who'd spoken to him in any capacity over the years.
We spoke to private investigator Pat McKenna, Judge Scott Cupp,
and Leo's current lawyers Andrew Crawford and Seth Miller. They
all think that the letters Jeremy's been writing to me
(06:23):
are an indication that he's ready to open up, But
it's Leo's advice that resonates with us the most. I
talked to him on the phone before going in to
see Jeremy. The state has passed us as opponents in
a chess game. Yeah, I'm not trying to play chess.
(06:46):
I'm not trying to pin something on him. I'm not.
That's not my objectives. We're out the truth, you know,
and and he's the one that supplied the truth, you know.
But I would really like him to know and feel
that myself and those who represent me are you know,
concern for his well being as well. You know. We
(07:08):
want we all to feel safe enough to tell the
truth to not you know, have to cover things up.
It's almost exactly like parties are at Shardi, same front
doors and the bathrooms are right across the way. We
arrive at Martin and this place looks remarkably similar to
Hardy Ci, where Leo is housed and where we've gone
(07:30):
through the security process half a dozen times. It's another
giant concrete complex surrounded by tall fences and lots of
barbed wire. We get to security and the guards give
us the personal body alarms, the little devices with the
button we're supposed to press in an emergency. We loop
it through our belts and hand over our IDs. The
(07:53):
warden meets us and leads us to a room where
the interview will take place. We don't know what to expect.
We don't know if Jeremy will be shackled and cuffed,
or if a guard will stay in the room with us.
I'm not expecting Hannibal Lecter in a mask to be
wheeled in, but I'm aware that Jeremy's attacked guards and
nurses at various facilities across the state. He's known to
(08:16):
act out in unpredictable ways. As the warden leaves, he
tells us to be careful not to let the inmate
touch the door because there's a latch. Knew the knob
that if flipped, would leave us locked in the room
alone with him. I can't even tell if he's fucking
with us. He definitely wasn't fucking with us, at least
(08:41):
when I got the impression that they were just going
to drop him off in the in the room. And
that's when I got a little nervous, because I'm like, oh,
responsible for Kelsey's gonna be sitting in a room with Kelly,
you know, I don't know how that's gonna go. We
don't need the armous. This one's better. You know, there
was two different kinds of chairs there. I'm like, all right,
the one that locks him in a little bit better.
(09:01):
And I was like, well, let's just put one with
arm rest on there. I'll just make it a little
bit harder for him to jump over the table to
get to us. I'm just trying to think about this stuff.
It's situated like you. I'll probably be exactly like this,
like leading in talking to him. Decide. Yeah, Jeremy, thanks
(09:28):
for coming. Testing one two three, testing one two three.
I'm gonna probably if he comes in, I'll get up
and greet him and shake hands. And I think you
should just stayst heated. I'm nervous now, but hopefull work.
(10:01):
Sure you don't want to do this about him? Yeah,
I'm positive, because you can't leave me alone in here
with them at any point. No, I'm not going to
do it. Don't worry. If you need to go now
go now, understood. Good sleep, Good sleep. He's coming, hi,
(10:42):
Jeremy bone Valley, Chapter nine, coming clean, h Jeremy. I'm
(11:12):
gonna be going around and this is Kelsey, if you
would sit over here and well we can talk to you.
He was about six foot, he's pretty slender build, has
blue eyes. And if you're comfortable with it removing your mask,
(11:34):
we're fine with that too. Yeah, okay with that. Yeah,
they just made me, made me when you got a
shave and stiff. They just maybe they made me go
get all his new clothes on and stuff. Are you kidding?
You know, he's a tall guy, and he's obviously can
be imposing, and you know when they brought him in,
(11:54):
he was not coughed um for some reason. I don't know.
I just I never felt threatened by him. I didn't.
He did not strike me as someone who was going
to be dangerous. And I think that was his body language,
you know, shaking his hand, he just kind of like
just sort of disappeared into himself as a very loose handshake.
All his confidence and everything that he might have thought
(12:16):
about himself as a young man is just gone. I
feel felt sorry for him really physically looking at him,
he just seemed like like a shell of a of
a man at this point, because really gonna do for me? Yeah,
I mean my life here is did you know? Yeah?
How do you like Martin so far? Do you feel
(12:37):
safer here? M not really, but I guess I ain't.
I would never feel safe in prison. Yeah. Yeah. One
of the things Kelsey and I had discussed in preparation
for this interview was the intention to follow Jeremy's lead
and everything we'd seen Jeremy had been questioned by someone
with a specific goal or agenda, a detective or a
(12:58):
lawyer who wants to get to the bottom of something,
a prosecutor looking for a particular story. We wanted him
to know that this would be different. Of course, we
had things we wanted to find out and leads we'd
be itching to follow, but we wanted Jeremy to be
at ease. We wanted to give him the freedom to
tell his story the way he wanted to tell it.
(13:19):
We wanted him to know that we were interested in
him and everything that entails. But that also means that sometimes,
in the middle of talking about one thing, he might pivot.
This happened pretty early in the interview. Jeremy casually mentions
the taxicab driver as he's telling us about an interaction
he had with his mother's boyfriend back in nineteen eighty seven.
(13:43):
He knew about it. He knew about the taxicab driver
because I told him Piero touched my MoMA killing and
I meant that, right. I'm just trying straight up, right.
I might have been a little drinking at that particular day, right,
and kind of slip. But we'd been hoping the taxi
(14:04):
cab driver would come up in conversation. We didn't want
it to feel confrontational. So when he brings it up,
we follow his lead. Can you talk a little bit.
You mentioned the taxi story, and I'm just curious, like
how that started. Can you just start that from the beginning. Well,
that happened, right, I haven't riot uh Schofield. We want
(14:28):
to ask more about Michelle, but for now we keep
Jeremy talking about the cab driver. And I, you know,
like I said, I've broke into a house and stole
gonna scared to death begun on me. Yeah. So Jeremy
mentions the same details he'd revealed in his letters about
(14:48):
finding the gun at a cops house. He broke into
an old three fifty seven magnum. But then he starts
getting into more of a narrative and his story it
fits with the information we already knew about the case.
So and I called it tasted, and he took me
down there and I was just gonna rob him. But
(15:11):
when I was pointed to gun, I guess it just
touched it. Boom. Yeah, it was it was like midnight.
But then I got in a task cab, turned the
car around. I was kind of speeding, went over the
tracks and I turned and the car slid, you know
(15:32):
because when them old yellow tactic cab got that got
an audiences in it. But then the car cast sliding,
you know, and and hit the side of a car,
and another car hit that car, and the tast cab
hit hit the pole right and he runs his fingers
across the table, drawing the streets of Intercession City, and
(15:53):
he uses his hands to show us the route the
taxicab traveled before it crashed. Jerry's hastily drawn tabletop map
matches what we've been able to piece together. But the
most striking parts aren't the details Jeremy's describing here. It's
the way he's telling it, shifting in his seat to
(16:15):
mimic the feel of the car as it slides into
a crash. He's moving his body as though he's reliving it.
It feels like we're in the car with him. I
can't imagine a lie being so embodied. Jeremy explains how
after he hits the pole, he jumps out of the
(16:35):
taxi and sees a group of people moving toward him
to see if anyone is hurt. But I yelled, I
got the car. I said, y'all run, run from a
blow right, And everybody just took all running or anyone
to see my face. So that's how I took all
did when you crashed the cab, you thought it was
it blow up. Yeah, he hit up the light boat
(17:00):
was just like sparkling. Nobody wants to take a chance.
This all matches what we know about the case. Witnesses
told the same story. One of the things we wanted
to know more about is that black hat found in
the taxicab, the one with the skull and the Confederate
flag that was left on the back seat. But we
(17:22):
don't even have to bring it up. I have a
hat and blown to my cousin Jason Scott or you
did now right but ahead of the name minute right,
and I left it in the car. I gamn that
kind of much evidence and I said, how would why
would anything with my family be in that car. Jeremy
(17:43):
seems shocked he never got caught. After killing the cab
driver and crashing the cab, he runs off into the woods,
and he says he hit out in an empty house
in Intercession City. He laid there for hours under a blanket,
just waiting for the police dogs to come and sniff
him out. I know it, sooner or later, it's going
to come back, Elmy. I did wait for it miss
(18:06):
a matter of time. But the dogs and the deputies
they never come. Nothing comes back on him, and it's
unclear if it ever will. Jeremy has now given a
full confession to the murder of Joseph Laverre, a confession
to a thirty five year old cold case. It's a
(18:27):
remarkable moment, but given everything we've been through, everything we've seen,
not a terribly surprising one. He'd already spontaneously confessed to
his girlfriend Jamie Nellum's more than three decades ago, and
his brother Royal Dean seemed to be aware of it too.
Jeremy had casually brought it up to two investigators from
(18:49):
the state, as though he was trying to see what
they knew, but the investigators laughed him off, and in
a letter he'd written to me, Jeremy had revealed some
seriously incriminating information about the murder. We'd taken this evidence
to the Ninth Circuit State Attorney's office and the Osciola
County Sheriff's office more than once. Even before this full confession,
(19:13):
I thought for sure we'd collected enough to convince someone
in power to look into the physical evidence collected from
the crime scene. I mean, during the original investigation of
the murder, fingerprints were lifted from the taxi cab and
hair was plucked from the seats. The fingerprints and the
hair could match to Jeremy, but the sheriff's office never
(19:36):
got back to us about whether or not they'd test
the evidence, or if it still exists, whether the state
will do anything to officially close this case, clearing dan
Odie's name and bringing closure to the family of Joseph Lavere.
That's yet to be seen. And in the meantime, here's
(19:59):
Jeremy freely admitting to the unsolved murder. He's coming clean.
But if nothing comes of it, it won't be the
first time in Jeremy's life that his efforts to tell
the truth were disregarded by the state of Florida. Hi,
(20:24):
I'm Jason Flom, CEO and founder of Lava for Good podcasts,
home to Bone Valley, Wrongful Conviction, The War on Drugs,
and many other great podcasts. Today we're asking you, our listeners,
to take part in a survey. Your feedback is going
to help inform how we make podcasts in the future.
You're complete and candidate answers will help us continue to
bring you more insightful and inspiring stories about important topics
(20:48):
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Good dot com slash survey and participate today. Thank you
for your support. Bone Valley is sponsored by Stand Together.
Stand Together is a philanthropic community that partners with America's
boldest change makers to tackle the root causes of our
(21:10):
country's biggest problems, including the broken criminal justice system. Weldon
Angelos is one of those change makers. At the age
of twenty three, Weldon was arrested for a first time
offense of selling weed to a confidential informant. At the time,
he was a budding musician spending time with artists like
Tupac Snoop Dog, Pink and naz. His entire life was
(21:34):
ahead of him when he was sentenced to a mandatory
fifty five years in federal prison without the possibility of
early release. After serving thirteen years, a bipartisan effort led
to him getting officially pardoned. Upon his release, he founded
the Weldon Project, a non profit working to create better
outcomes for those still in prison that funds social change
(21:58):
and provides financial aid for all those who are still
serving time for cannabis related offenses. Weldon Angelos is one
of the many entrepreneurs partnering would stand together to drive
solutions in education, healthcare, poverty, and criminal justice. To learn
more about the War on Drugs, listen to the War
(22:19):
on Drugs podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get
your podcasts. For a few minutes, I just want to
(22:40):
talk about John Aguero. Part of our investigation is into
some of the things I wanted to ask Jeremy about
the meeting he'd had with the prosecutor in two thousand
and five. That was the meeting that motivated John Aguero
to close the investigation into Jeremy for the murder of
Michelle's Scofield. During that meeting, Jeremy was brought from state
(23:03):
prison into John Aguero's office. There were no witnesses present,
and Aguero did not record the meeting, so we only
have John Aguero's account, the one he testified to at
Leo's evidentiary hearing in twenty ten. Now I want to
hear Jeremy's side of the story. What kind of thing
(23:26):
was Aguero telling you when when they said, oh, we
found your fingerprints in this car? How that will come out?
And he said, what was what was you doing with car?
I said, I break in cars? I mean, NA, no
secret what I do on the streets, you know. Oh
I'm told him basically everything when I tell everybody else, Yeah,
(23:46):
what I couldn't use. I threw in the trash, you know,
clean the car out the best I could, you know.
That's why I said. I was probably when they said
at pump print and we issue. But as when jerk
stereo out in here, Jeremy, do you remember anything about
John Aquera offering you immunity all he offered to sit
(24:08):
on my hearing? He said, well he has he has
a lot of influence. Bro hearing Columby it never happens.
But he didn't mention immunity. Like, he didn't say, if
you confess right now to killing Michelle, we won't charge you.
(24:29):
You have immunity. He never said anything like that. Now
he won't do that. He won't do that, So he didn't.
He didn't. You didn't ever hear him say that you
have immunity. Okay, all you say it was I'm gonna
be sitting on your hearing, and he said, what I
say on that hearing goes a long ways. He said,
it's your freedom and ask them that's enough for me.
(24:50):
We asked Jeremy about immunity three times because we want
to be sure he understands. This is an important point.
The state has really lied on this story about John
Aguero's offer of immunity so heavily to prove that Jeremy
is just a car stereo thief and not a murderer,
because they reason if Jeremy really killed Michelle Scofield, he
(25:14):
certainly would have said so when offered immunity. But we're
not sure that Jeremy understands what immunity is, and he
has no recollection of any such offer from Aguero. Again,
we've tried, and Leo's lawyers have tried to request documentation
for this alleged immunity offer, but the state has never
(25:36):
produced anything. Jeremy remembers John Aguero offering a different kind
of help that if Jeremy stuck to his stereo theft story,
Aguero would help him with his parole. But that's not
all Jeremy says happened in John Aguero's office. Michelle, did
(25:59):
he ask you were Yeah, Yeah, I killed I told
him I've killed him. You said, you told him in
the in the office when he was asking about the fingerprints.
That's where I told him, Matt, when I told him
straight up, I said, I told him I had something
to it. And he still didn't believe me. And he
(26:21):
wasn't recording you or anything, just me and him an
office station him. Jeremy says that in that same meeting,
Aguero showed him aerial photos of the canal, and even
though Michelle's body can't be seen from that high above,
Jeremy says, he pointed to the exact spot in the
(26:42):
photo where her body was found. He showed me some
pictures that the case of Michelle. I had a point
out areas to him where the body was at. Yeah,
because where the body was at the only person put
it there was the person that put it there. And
(27:02):
I stressed him because I seen the helicopper pictures from
the boat and I'm looking at him. I mean, yeah,
I'm all laid out. There's no way you can't describe.
You can't describe nobody in that lake and I and
I pointed out to him, Yeah, that's I know it.
Jeremy Scott claims he confessed to the murder of Michelle
(27:25):
Schofield to Assistant state Attorney John Aguero in two thousand
and five when he was confronted with the fingerprint evidence,
and according to Jeremy, Aguero told him he didn't want
to hear it, but you're very insistent. Aguero knew about
this all along. He knew it, He knew it was
gonna fall out like this. He knew, he knew everything,
(27:48):
but he didn't care. But when you know, well, when
when when I brought something up to him, he didn't
it didn't he didn't want to hear that. We can
never know whether this conversation actually happened or not because
John Aguero didn't record the meeting, and Aguero is no
longer alive. So what was John Aguero hoping to accomplish
(28:12):
in that room alone with Jeremy. Why would a prosecutor
go into a room with someone like Jeremy Scott without
a witness and without a tape recorder unless for some
reason he doesn't want to create a record of that conversation.
Why do you think the state will not believe your confession?
(28:33):
I don't think it ain't that they don't believe me.
They don't want to want to bring all that back
out undercover. And I'm glad. I think there probably was
more stuff that married underneath that guerre role stuff, and
they just ain't never went and looking. If you had
to open him some of them cases, I mean, you
(28:54):
had to really investigate the prosecutor. That's when he needs
to be doing. Yeah, prosecutor's gonna gonna do what they
gotta do. Ye know. It's like it's like it's like
they knew, they knew when they brought me in that day,
(29:14):
they knew I had something to do with that, but
like they ain't got time to, you know, to go
through all these paperworking. Yeah, they're just trying to cover
it up because it's all it is. It's gonna open
more doors, and it's gonna open more doors. For where
(29:41):
I was sitting, I could see him doing a lot
of fidgeting, and when when the conversation got a little
more difficult, he would definitely like start scratching his arms
and his hands. And at one point I looked and
I saw it his fingers were start sort of facing me,
and I remembered he had hate h at across his
knuckles and you could see him sort scratching that. Oh.
(30:02):
I just reminded Gilbert that he has love on the
other hand. Um, And you know we'd seen that before
on on documents, that he had these tattoos. And I
think there are a couple of times where hate is
maybe the only tattoo mentioned. But you know, he does
have love on the other hand. Your sort of letters
(30:24):
started out saying you you came back to perry Um
in Christmas eighty six and asked Dave Rtel to January.
You know, I left, I started walking back towards Pope County,
that's where I hang out it. I went back down
here in Brown February. By the time it starts pouring
(30:48):
out a rain, and that's when that's when, uh, when
I ran it to in Michelle. It was February. It
was raining that night. But that's well, that's we're all
begin Could you could you tell us that story. I
(31:09):
found a good story to talk about. No, it's not.
You know what your detailed in the letter was was really,
um very detailed. And you talked about the gas station,
and we just figured to hear it in your words, Yeah,
this is a case. It should never happen. It was
just one of them, out of flute, thanks, out of air, raining, starving,
(31:36):
no place sleep. Then we started kind of getting into
the Michelle stuff. And as soon as that happened, you know,
he had they have their like cloth face masks that
are made out of the same material as their prison uniforms.
So he had his face mask in his hand and
(31:57):
he started like folding it, you know, wrapping the strings,
and I could just tell he was starting to get anxious.
He knew, you know, the kind of stuff we were
going to be asking about. So you were walking down
like Cumby Road and you come into this gas station
and you know, I'm sitting I was sitting there at By.
She was on the phone talking to somebody, and when
(32:19):
she got all shit, I needed phone, I said, no,
She said, why are you all you know Chris raining
you know? I said, he got a ride, you know,
so she gave me a ride. He said in one
of your letters that she she was nice to you.
She was nice to give me a ride her own.
That's where that's where it hurts me more. Girls light
(32:45):
day don't girls light day don't. Don't don't pick up people.
Why do you think she picked you up? And when
you were a stranger to her ors? I don't think
I was. Apparently because she she she wanted to pick
up anybody. Why that's what's been bothered me. Apparently we
know each other first, you know, glance or or a
(33:06):
rent at a party or a song or a school
or whatever. You know, don't what did you tell Did
you tell her you want to take you somewhere? Or
how did you I asked her to taming down in
North Clumby. Did you guys talk about anything in the
car as you're riding. I'm just kind of quiet because
it was a short ride to where you were going?
(33:26):
Short rid? So what happens when you take her back
into that area? Further apologized to her, but she went
to screaming and panicking and stuff. And that's that's one
I guess I've lost it. Damn. Was she saying anything
(33:46):
to you or just she was just screamed and that
is it. She at you said, no, we're you mentioned
that she was hitting you. How did that happen? You know,
because she she's in job receipt all right, You're just
just like not enough to really wrot. But one of
the things I wanted to ask you about is and
(34:08):
he wrote in one of your letters that at one
point she tried to drive away. Oh well, that's I
think that's what really put the put the car and
heat really yeah, because when she did I reached ime
rather that the ship and putt put in part and
that was the last of that. So when you say
(34:32):
you lost it, what do you mean by that? I
mean my sight, I'm not a very good person. When
it is in this site department, I got a history.
From where I was sitting, I could see that, um,
his his whole arm was just scar tissue. He had
(34:57):
so many, probably like hundreds of cut marks on his arms,
which is something we knew that you know he had
that and that that was something he did. But you know,
sitting there, I yeah, I was trying not to stare.
He said, you apologize to her? Huh, he said, you
(35:20):
apologize to yea, What did you applize from what I'm doing?
What are you doing? Huh? Was gonna steal the car?
Then when she went on that moves stuff, man, I
really got panic. M that's when I had that that
(35:41):
that that that knife. It's just like, ah, it's a
honey knife. They come in twins, Yeah, blowing to my
uncle's kids. I took one of them, but I ain't
think anything it would do that much damage because they
knew they ain't been sharpened. They just got It's just it.
(36:07):
They happened so fast, Yeah, because once it happened, it
just happened so fast. He doesn't get into the stabbing
that much. He just says, I don't know how many
times I stabbed here. I lost it and he just
doesn't want to talk about it. And I think it's trauma,
(36:29):
that's that's. I just think that he's finding some self
defense mechanism to sort of block out the worst parts
of his memory. Because you could tell how how upsetting
they worked to him, and that was kind of surprising
to me, Like this hardened, you know, killer who's been
in prison, who's seen the worst violence of anybody I
I'll ever meet um. And you know, he was emotional
(36:52):
and he was definitely getting upset, and it I almost
felt like we had a responsibility to sort of protect him,
to not go to far. He'd also gotten agitated in
the past when people have tried to press him to
get more into that, and I didn't want to, you know,
upset him and lose our chance to talk to him further. Well,
(37:16):
I dragged her out in the car, put her on him.
There was a doll like plastic wrapped around down by
the creek, so I wrapped and wrapped in up and air,
slid down by the creek and put a popable box
over it so so it couldn't be seen. Jeremy says
(37:38):
that after wrapping Michelle in plastic, he dragged her body
into the water, then took the Mazda. So I got
in the car and if wen't trying to go up
by an I four and got halfway and it stoled
up on when you went on I four, Where were
you headed? Oh? My family. I got family living during Casimi,
(38:00):
so I do a lot of walking between Cassime and
polk counting. But then the car stalled out. What was
it like smoking or it's just like it's just stalled out.
It's like you know, when you're running an engine too
much in June. So Michelle's car just stopped running. And
(38:27):
Jeremy says the detectives must not have looked closely at
the car on the side of by four, because he
says if they had, they would have asked the questions
that Kelsey and I had been asking ourselves, questions the
state never bothered with. Why was the car partner? Why?
That's all it was was stalled because putting too much
(38:49):
gas on it, Try and move it and it stalled out.
How my car still stayed there? Dude? Um, when you
were driving and the car broke down and you mentioned
something about finding a towel and using that to wipe
down everything, Now that I used that was that was
tossing in the in the bag that was thrown in
(39:10):
a trash can. So, but they still should have found
a lot of evidence. They should have found all of that. Instead,
it's just a fanger print. What about my about my
shoeprint and the gas pump? Yeah, what about the staring wheel?
The seats I'm doing so they ain't do the proper job.
(39:39):
Here we are inside a prison interviewing the man who
was claiming responsibility for Michelle Scofield's murder, and he's listing
all the ways the state of Florida failed to investigate
his crime. I think about the evidence that was found
but was never tested. The hair is found on the
(39:59):
car and on Michelle's body, and the scrapings from beneath
her fingernails. But by the time Jeremy was linked to
the Mazda, much of the untested evidence had been destroyed
or degraded. And at the same time, Jeremy says he
did make an attempt to clean up You know what,
(40:20):
It is interesting what you're saying, because they did. They
never found any of the Schofield prints in the car.
They weren't there, So it sort of fits that you
wiped it down to you pretty careful about that or
that particular nightdare Oh good. I think I'm probam one
probation right, So I had to be careful. We've gone
(40:45):
through Leo's story from the night Michelle went missing and
the States version that was presented to the jury. But
now we're able to piece together Jeremy's story through what
he's telling us, what he's written to us through letters,
and what he's told Leo's lawyers in the past. It's
(41:07):
the night of February twenty fourth, nineteen eighty seven. Jeremy
comes upon a young woman using the pay phone at
a gas station on Coumby Road. He'd been drinking Thunderbird
wine that night, and he admits that wine makes him violent.
(41:28):
It's drizzling out and he's broke, and the young woman
sees him standing there. She says, I know you. Jeremy
doesn't recognize her, but it's Michelle Scofield. He says he's
not good with faces, and he guesses she must remember
him from a party or something. When she asks if
(41:49):
he needs the phone, he says no, he needs a ride.
Just up Cumby Road. Jeremy gets in the passenger seat
of the Mazda and gives Michelle directions. He asked her
to take him to a trailer park on Northcumby Road,
but they drive past it instead. He directs her a
little further onto State Road thirty three, then has her
(42:12):
turn right onto a dirt road through a cut in
the tree line. There are no houses back here, Michelle
tells him. Jeremy makes some kind of comment, this is
where people come to make out at He's thinking maybe
he can get laid, but Michelle tells him she's married.
(42:33):
Jeremy fumbles in his jacket pocket. He says he reaches
for his cigarettes, but his knife falls out. He must
have threatened her. Whether it was to steal her car
or to rape her, it's unclear, but Jeremy says. Michelle
sees the knife and panics. She tries to drive away,
(42:55):
but he slams the car into park. She starts hitting him,
and that's when Jeremy says he lost it and he
attacked her for whatever reason. Jeremy either can't or won't
elaborate on the actual act itself. He says he doesn't
remember how many times he stabbed her. He also says
(43:17):
the stabbing took place in the car, but listening to
him tell it, I got the sense that the stabbing
began in the car. Michelle managed to open the door,
and Jeremy says she fell out onto the dirt where
her blood was found. I killed her, he says, and
(43:37):
he leaves it at that. Jeremy says that after the attack,
he rapped Michelle up in some plastic he found near
by and dragged her down to the canal. Then he
put a piece of plywood on top of her to
protect her from the snakes and gaiters, he says. He
(44:02):
then gets back in the car and sees ten dollars
in the center console, which he pockets. He smokes a
cigarette and takes off in the Mazda. He drives about
half a mile north and merges onto I four. He
gets six or so miles east when the Mazda stalls
out and he's forced to pull over. Once the car
(44:25):
grinds to a stop, Jeremy grabs something like a towel,
he says, and he starts wiping the car down to
remove his fingerprints. There's a gas station off the exit
ramp at the top of the hill, so Jeremy heads
there with the towel and the knife. It's late and
the gas station is closed, but he sees a dumpster
(44:45):
and buries the knife in the towel in the trash.
He crosses the highway to hitchhike back to Lakeland, but
when he sees the Mazda again, he decides to steal
the stereo. He can't pry it out, so he steals
the equalizer mounted to the dash below it, and he
takes the speakers from the back. He makes it back
(45:07):
to Lakeland somehow and falls asleep and an abandoned trailer.
There are several parts of Jeremy's story that stand out
to me because they match other evidence I've seen or
piece together. At times, he offers an explanation for things
(45:27):
the state never even attempted to explain. For one, the
state never presented a theory about why the car was
found on the eastbound side of I four miles outside
of Lakeland, but Jeremy does. After killing Michelle, he says
he was headed towards Kassimmee, where he had family. That's
(45:50):
the direction the Mazda was heading. That's also the direction
he would drive the following year in nineteen eighty eight,
when he went to his mom's trailer after killing Donald
moorehead and stealing his Chevy Baretta. The state doesn't dwell
on the Mazda's condition or location. It's Jeremy who accounts
(46:11):
for this and describes what it felt like driving the
vehicle as it broke down. And then there's the evidence
Jeremy left in the car. One of his fingerprints was
lifted from inside of the driver's side window. Another fingerprint
was found in the back of the vehicle where the
speakers were. It was on a receipt near the downy
(46:33):
bottle that was smeared with Michelle's blood. I've spent so
much time studying the photos taken from the crime scene.
I've tried to piece together the events based on the
location of the blood stains, the drag marks, and the dirt,
and the location of Michelle's body. Michelle's blood is pooled
in the dirt. The stains are where the driver's side
(46:56):
of the Mazda would be if it turned onto the
narrow dirt road beside the canal. So the location of
the bloodstains are consistent with Jeremy's telling that after he
stabbed her, she opened the door and fell out of
the car. I think Jeremy then got out of the car,
came around to her side, and continued to stab her
(47:17):
in that spot, I think that's where she was killed.
That's where most of her blood was found. There are
drag marks leading from the bloodstains to the canal, and
coins a quarter a nickel and a penny in the
dirt alongside the path of the drag marks. They must
have fallen from Michelle's pockets while Jeremy was dragging her.
(47:41):
Jeremy says he rapped Michelle's body in plastic. Police never
collected any plastic from the scene, but if you look
at the crime scene photos, you can see several plastic tarps,
just like Jeremy describes, right there among the garbage, but
they weren't taken into evidence. If Jeremy's telling the truth,
(48:04):
one of those plastic sheets may have had Michelle's blood
on it or Jeremy's fingerprints. And there's another thing in
those police photos that caught my eye. A pack of
Marlborough cigarettes. Were you smoking too? You said something about
going in the car and smoke, Yeah, I smartis pack? Dude?
(48:26):
What kind of cigarettes did you smoke? Marlborough's? Okay, this
pack of Marlborough's wasn't far from the bloodstains and the
drag marks. And again it was photographed like evidence, but
it was never taken in never process for fingerprints. Why
did police photographed this pack of Marlborough's but not collected
(48:50):
There's one other thing that I've been hung up on
these past three years. No one, none of Michelle's family,
none of her friends or co workers, ever claimed to
have seen her or spoken with her in the hours
following that final ninety five PM phone call that she
made to Leo from the payphone at Sparky's gas station.
(49:13):
If Leo supposedly killed Michelle in a fit of rage
right after his twelve forty three am phone call to
the Polk County Sheriff's office, where was Michelle during those
three hours after she called Leo? She said she'd be
right over, but she never showed so who was she with?
What was she doing? The state could not produce a
(49:36):
single witness to answer these questions about Michelle's whereabouts. After
hearing Jeremy's version of events, the answer seems pretty obvious
to me. Michelle never made it to Leo that night
because she ran into Jeremy Scott. He approached her at
the payphone, and then minutes later she was dead. That's
(50:01):
why no one else can claim they heard from her
or saw her within those three hours. Jeremy Scott was
the last person to see Michelle's Schofield alive. What was
going through your mind? After you did all this and
you took the car, where were you thinking, like, I'm
gonna just drive back to Cosineme or I'll be honest
(50:25):
with you. That's my whole point. I wasn't thinking I'm goad.
If I was, I would have never in and done
what I did. That's something that shouldn't never happen. It
wasn't playing that shouldn't that shouldn't never happen. I should
(50:46):
have swallowed my pride and went to it, went down,
went to Salvation army. Everybody was you know, February is
raining when a whole lot of a whole lot of
I could think about it. I mean back then, when
(51:06):
you're young, don't be thinking that's the thing until it's
so boy, Then then reality hits you. Then years go by,
and that's one. Really the reality really hits you, U
because you I have to live with this every day.
(51:29):
Can you describe that? What does it like to live
with that? Sound a good feeling? This way? It's pretty
the way I dream I wake up. I turned over,
I said, I said, A dead body speaking next to me.
I see what dead bodies every night when I go
(51:49):
to bed. That's my punishment. This shit gets me so scared.
I sneak with it every night, trudgement. That's not a
good sight. H Is that part of the reason that
(52:12):
you're talking to us? But you're just thinking about these
things I've been. I've been, it's been getting it's been
one to come out though, you know, it's just a
matter of time, because if I don't say it now,
it's not guaranteed. I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna walk down
that sidewalk. I'm like that getting stabbed up. Yeah, because
(52:34):
you don't know what's gonna happen out here, you know, Yeah,
because many might put a hit on you. Yeah, it
feels important to you to talk about it. It does.
I mean, it ain't gonna never, it ain't gonna change.
I mean it can change. It ain't gonna change nothing
(52:58):
for me, but it can change something for her. You
don't know, she ain't here but for her family though.
You know, one of the things we did last it's
just if you if you ever think about Michelle now,
I do all the time. I pray for her every night, Tory,
(53:20):
when I lay down, I sleep with her. Can get out?
Can get away? That's a nightmare. What do you pray about.
It's raight for a lot of things, bad spirits. M
(53:42):
I messed with the spirits too much. But nah, as
far as Michelle, she was just at the wrong time,
wrong place and everything you happens when you're young and
not think can she deserves better than now, and she
(54:08):
she'll get it. I think once this gets cleared up,
she can breast. But first first, Leo, I don't I
don't even speak for for this case. Yeah, Leo, Leo,
(54:32):
Leo innocent of all of all things. He's innocent on this.
I've been trying to help him. I'm doing everything I could.
I'm trying to help you out, but they don't want
(54:54):
me help him out. All right, man man had been
in prison thirty three years. He needs to be up. Yeah,
that man ain't doing nothing. He's innocent. We sat down
(55:42):
with Leo before we interviewed Jeremy. He has a copy
of one of the letters Jeremy wrote to me. It
meant more to Leo than I could have known. Leo
now carries it around with him, folded up and tucked
into the pocket of his blue prison uniform. You know
that I received a letter from Jeremy A couple of
weeks ago. Yeah, I carried around in my pocket every
(56:05):
day except today. They don't let me bring anything here.
So do you think of it? Well, obviously, I believe
that he's the murder of my life. I believe he's
also been trying to say that for a long time.
The letter that Leo carries with him is one of
the first letters I received from Jeremy. It says, in part,
(56:28):
dear mister King, I don't know what it is that
you want to know about Polk County prosecutors. They lied.
That's why I told the whole truth about Leo Schofield.
And I had also told them things that a killer
would know. Leo didn't kill his wife. I did. I
(56:57):
read those words Leo didn't kill his wife. I did
a very simple verb. When I first read it. I'm
not kidding. I had chills, and I get chills every
time I do it, because he's nothing like I was expecting.
He's not. He's not the the three headed monster that
(57:18):
had to have done something like this to someone as
wonderful and beautiful as Michelle was. You have to be
a monster to do that, and he's not. He's just
a pathetic human being. That's been messed up. You know,
he's had a really rough go as I'm sure you're
aware of now, even in the prison, and I do
believe he's sorry. But it just shows you that he
(57:39):
has a heart. He does have a heart. You know
that he's not a monster. He's not what I was
looking for. You know, I've always wanted the truth, and
I thank him for the truth. We both, in different worlds,
needed redemption over the same issue. You know. When I
look in the mirror, I got to look at a
man who let his wife get murdered, you know, and
at some point I needed redemption. I needed to be
(58:01):
rebuilt into something that I could live with, you know,
And I see Jeremy in that same light, you know,
in a different frame, a different storyline. You know, he's
he's the he's the the one who put all this
into play. You know, he's the man holding the knife,
and so he needs his own redemption, you know. You
know what, I thank God for that. I thank God
(58:24):
for that, because without that, I don't think we have
to get to the bottom of it. And very few
people know the truth, you know. Now there's a bigger
story to tell, you know, and where it goes from
here and we'll see. It's been more than three years
(58:46):
since Judge Scott Cupp first handed me his business card,
three years since I first read the words he'd written
on the back. Leo Schofield not just wrongfully convicted, He's
an innocent man. In the time since, Kelsey and I
have spent twenty plus hours sitting across a table from
Leo in a cinderblock prison room, listening to him talk
(59:10):
about the moments of his adolescence that came to define
his entire life. I have dozens of letters and emails
from him, and we talk regularly on the phone, and
I'm in constant touch with his family. Leo's daughter, Ashley
is now a mother with two baby boys. Today, Leo's
(59:30):
grandsons visit him on that same patch of grass outside
the visitation pavilion where he says he raised Ashley. Even
the guards at Hardy, who know Chrissie and Ashley and
the boys, they tell us they don't want to see
Leo's grandsons grow up visiting the prison. They know Leo
needs to be home. When Leo had opportunities to have
(59:53):
his case reviewed in court, I shared in his hope
for justice, and when those opportunities were to I shared
in the heartbreak. With no realistic legal options left to pursue,
Leo's waiting on his next parole hearing, where once again
Leo will refuse to apologize for a crime he did
(01:00:14):
not commit, and once again the state will argue against
his parole because of this. So he's waiting on parole
and he's waiting on this story to come out. I'm
acutely aware of the hope this project has given Leo
and his family. It's conflicting. I believe in his story
(01:00:38):
and I'm honored to be able to tell it, but
I also know that there are no guarantees it'll make
any difference in Leo's life. I wish I could make
those promises, but I know I can't. I don't even
want to say thank you anymore, Gilbert, I can't say
any of that. Yeah, but it's my heart. Wouldn't be
here if we didn't believe in this, gil would I
(01:00:59):
wouldn't be here if you didn't believe in this stuff.
I would not be here if you did not believe
in this stuff. And I am dead serious about that,
because I am tired. I am tired. I don't carry
just my hurt. I carry the hurt of my family.
I carry a ton of hurt of the men that
I serve here. I mean, every single one of them
(01:01:19):
come to me every day. When are you getting on
her here? You know what I mean? And I carry
a lot, and it's heavy, It's freaking heavy, and sometimes
I get hopeless. Sometimes I feel like it's getting so
far away and I'm going in the wrong direction. And
that's just the feeling. I'm not saying that it is,
you know, in this confession. Just it's like how many
(01:01:40):
times do I got to hear it? How many times
does he have to say it? I get it. But
we're putting this story together and I think, I just
don't want you to underplay your part. No, you can't.
My life depended on it. You gave me the hope, Gilbert.
That's the truth. Scott knows. Scott felt like he gave
(01:02:01):
you hope one time, and he did and he did. Yeah,
But you know what, it's the relationship that I have
with him that sustains me even now. I love that man.
He's a brother to me. I love that man, and
I am not going to let him down. And I'm
not going to let you down. And I'm sustained that way,
So it doesn't matter what happens. It matters that people
have bonded. You know, we've become a family of sorts.
(01:02:24):
That matters. That matters, It counts because it's all I got,
That's it, and you know what, that's all I need,
That's all I need. Leo is trying to reassure me
that he's going to be okay regardless of what happens
after the story comes out, because after thirty five years,
(01:02:49):
he knows better than to hope for anything more from
the state of Florida. You're Notber of twenty twenty one,
Leo was going to be playing a concert one afternoon
at Hardy with his band, The Watchers. We couldn't get
permission to record, but I decided to fly down for
(01:03:10):
the concert anyway, knowing what it would mean to Leo
to have me there. I just wanted to see him
with his bandmates and the men in his congregation, his brothers.
The assistant warden meets me at security and escorts me
to the God behind Bars building. As we're walking, I
(01:03:33):
see a flyer posted to a wall announcing the concert
the Watchers. It reads with special guest Gilbert King. Once
I get inside, I see Leo surrounded by his brothers.
They're all in their prison blue uniforms with white stripes
down the pants. He comes over, we hug, and he
(01:03:54):
introduces me to his bandmates. They all tell me they've
been passing around the same taped up copy of my book,
Devil in the Grove. It's a book I sent to
Leo more than three years ago. They all thank me
for looking into Leo's case. Inside this building, the inmates
move around freely, joking and drinking coffee. There are very
(01:04:17):
few guards. You get the sense that nobody's really worried
about the men here, who continue to file in for
the concert. Before the Watchers take the stage, Leo says
he wants to show me something, so he leads me
in the assistant warden through the library to Adore in
the back. It's the war Room, that small gray room
(01:04:40):
tacked with prayer requests, the place where Leo came in
his darkest of times, to pray for Jeremy Scott, trying
to forgive him. Leo steps inside and gets noticeably choked up.
He knows I'm aware of the story that in twenty sixteen,
just a few days days after tacking up his prayer
(01:05:01):
request for Jeremy Scott, Leo received the news that Jeremy
confessed to killing Michelle. But the assistant warden is new
and as Leo begins to explain the significance of this
room to him, he catches himself, realizing this story is
too long and complicated for a stranger to absorb, so
(01:05:23):
he just tells us that the inmates are lucky to
have a place and a program like this at Hardy,
and the assistant warden seems pleased to hear it. As
we move towards the stage, I meet Leo's longtime friend,
cellmate and songwriting partner Kevin Herrick. Leo taught him to
play guitar more than twenty years ago when Kevin first
(01:05:45):
came to Hardy. Kevin also tells me Leo taught him
how to be a man and a man of God,
he says. Leo takes the stage and picks up the
mic to rousing applause. There's a full drum set and
a keyboard and amps ready to go. Leo's got reading
glasses on and he's carrying a leather bound Bible in
(01:06:08):
his hands. He tells the crowd that it's not God's
plan for them to be destroyed in this prison, and
he begins a sermon on self worth and dignity. Then
Leo points to me in the audience. He might not
look at but this man is a friggan bulldog, he says,
And then he tells the story about how Judge Scott
(01:06:29):
Cupp handed me a business card with Leo's name on it,
and how Kelsey and I have been investigating his case
for years. I stand up, not expecting this, and say
something about storytelling and how honored I feel to be
invited to share this time with them, before giving the
mic back to Leo. Leo's glasses come off and the
(01:06:51):
music begins. Inmates clapp and sing along with hands outstretched.
Some of these men have been here for decades, men
(01:07:14):
who mentored Leo when he first arrived in the system.
They're dancing. Leo's boss from maintenance is here. Even the
guards are clapping and moving to the music. Are you here, lads?
(01:07:38):
Sorrow's dances sy The lyrics may be spiritual, but the
sound is pure nineteen eighties rock. Leo and Kevin are
trading solos, shredding their two guitars, dueling it out. Leo's
(01:08:02):
working up a sweat, leaning on Kevin's shoulder. The two
men are laughing and nodding encouragement at each other. It's
not hard for me to imagine Leo, the teenager with
long black hair, his shirt off, standing on some flatbed
truck in the woods in Polk County, playing for free
beer with his old band Rhino. Michelle is there too,
(01:08:26):
She's dancing by the bonfire, cheering on the band. Maybe
I imagine they'd have made it to the Lakelands Civic
Center someday to open for Iron Maiden or Deaf Leopard.
But that life and those dreams disappeared thirty five years
(01:08:47):
ago on a cold, damp night in February of nineteen
eighty seven, when Jeremy Scott took Michelle's life and the
State of Florida took Leo's freedom. After the show, I
left the prison and I had a few hours to
kill before getting to the airport in Orlando, so I
(01:09:10):
took the back roads for one more drive through Bone Valley.
The sun was beginning to set on the phosphate capitol
of the world, casting a golden hue on the towering
gypsum stacks in the distant horizon. I went past Tom's
Restaurant where Michelle worked, and the gas station on Cumbey
(01:09:32):
Road where she spoke her very last words to Leo
over an old payphone. I went by the trailer part
right up the road where Jeremy used to stay with
his grandmother. Then on to State Road thirty three, passing
that drainage canal hidden behind palmetto bushes. I turned onto
(01:09:56):
I four and passed the exit ramp where Shells Mazda
broke down, and the gas station on the hill where
a cheap knife with a compass on the handle one
slide buried in a dumpster, never to be found. I
wanted one more look at all the places in Bone Valley,
(01:10:16):
the places Kelsey and I have visited and revisited and
thought about every day for the past three years, Places
that are still seared into Leo's mind thirty five years later.
For now, this is where the story has to end.
Leo Scofield and Jeremy Scott have settled on the truth
(01:10:40):
of what happened on that February night back in nineteen
eighty seven. There's nothing more to say unless the State
of Florida decides to write the final chapter. This may
be the closest Leo Scofield ever gets to true justice
for himself. Inform Achelle, do you hear my mans? To
(01:11:19):
my fears, sorrows, depths singles? In this vastlyti, I see olation,
(01:11:41):
I reach desperation to the words on the star. To
the Bone Valley is a production of Lava for Good
(01:12:27):
Podcast in association with Signal Company Number One. Our executive
producers are Jason Flam and Kevin Wurdis. Karak Kornhaber is
our senior producer. Brit Spangler is our sound designer. Roxandra
Guidi is our editor. Fact checking by Maximo Anderson. Our
(01:12:49):
producer and researcher is Kelsey Decker. The One Who's Holding
the Stars is performed by Lee Bob and The Truth.
It was written by Leo Schofield and Kevin Herrick and
was performed during this episode by the watchers at Florida's
Hearty Correctional Institution. Bone Valley is written and produced by
(01:13:09):
me Gilbert King. You can follow the show on Instagram, Facebook,
and Twitter.
Host
Gilbert King
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