August 6, 2025 • 34 mins
It’s said that you don’t get to choose your family. But what if you can? Actor-singer and “Gaydar” host Anania shares her personal journey with discovering her own identity, coming out, expressing herself through drag, and finding a supportive chosen family.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello, beautiful listeners. We're busy working on our next episodes,
and we have a question for you. What's a red
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breadcrumbs me terrible. Send us your answers by leaving us
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(00:21):
two three seven, or email us a voice note at
boy Sober Podcast at gmail dot com. Okay, now on
with the episode.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I'm anon I. Hi. My name is Ananaya. This is
gat Arc Hi, I'm Anonaya.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
This is Gadar.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Today, I'm gonna find out if you're a gay, straight
or a homosode. I want to say you are gay. Yeah, gay.
I'm gonna say you're like a fin bisexual. But it's
a very new things.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I am a fem bisexual. It's not a new thing.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I'm gonna go with your straight, but had to by
curious phase.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I wish I were bye.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I really tried. I tried. I have a theory. I
think princess a he him lesbian. I say this all
the time.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
That's a really good theory.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, thank you. I came up with it myself.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Do you recognize that voice? The host of Gaydar might
be all over your social feed, telling people who they are,
but who is she really? This week we bring you
Anna Naya's story of self actualization, community and love. I'm
(01:30):
hopewordered and welcome to Voice Over, a space where we're
learning and on learning all the myths we're taught about
love and relationships. Our guest today does it all. She's
(01:52):
a singer, dancer, actor, and drag queen. She's also the
host of the popular TikTok series Gaydar, where she's told
guests like Rene rap So we're on Mom, Donnie and
Chapel Roone whether they are gay, straight, or a homophobe.
She is Annaia, and I really wanted to talk to
her to better understand the work that went into becoming
(02:15):
who she is now and what she's facing in her
day to day And honestly, I just wanted to shoot
the ship with someone smart, funny, and confident. Welcome to
the show, Anna Anaya. Hi, you live in New York.
(02:35):
Your family, though, is in Chicago.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
You're from Iowa.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
You're from Iowa. How has that transition been transition? No,
but like you grew up in a small town.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yeah, well, I guess in the context of the nation. Yeah,
in context of Iowa was from like the third largest city.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Or something like that.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Okay, So I didn't feel like that until I moved
to Boston for school.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Okay. Yeah, walk me through your childhood a little, your
family vibes.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
It was me and my mom for a very long time.
My dad started getting visitation again, which is crazy. Okay,
around nine years old, Okay, And yeah, it wasn't easy.
Me and my parents have a really hard relationship. But
the thing that I wish I had more of was
like time to just figure some shit out, like back
(03:23):
in the back then, back then. Yeah, I feel like
it was survival mode, you know, for eighteen years of
my life. Yeah, I'm really honored that I figured some
shut out.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah totally. I went down a rabbit hole on your
TikTok oh, and I was listening to your actual singing voice.
You are a wonderful singer. Oh. So I was like wow.
And so I was curious, like where that came from.
What sort of introduced you generally to like performing.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I did start in the church, like every other black
kid in the middle of nowhere. I mean, I always
say this, I'm always grateful to the church for showing
me gospel music. Because that's that's exactly how I did
get started. If I ever have kids, I want to
show them gospel music and not necessarily the church. And
then I started doing choir in school and just like
random gigs and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Who is sort of like supporting you during that time?
Did you have somebody who was like, You're an amazing performer,
follow this truth or was it sort of just internal?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah? I had a couple of people. I'm thinking of
my high school a choir director, Michael Reese. He was great.
He was like a fun little guy. I think what
I liked about him the most was that he pushed
me to be a better performer, which in turn like
made me get out of my own head and troubles
at home, which is really nice.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
My theater director, she was so motherly when I needed it,
you know what I mean. And I do theater now
because of her, And it's just like I want to
always pay her back for the kindness that she showed
me because she really didn't have to. But yeah, I
think I'm a summation of the love that they poured
into me and the potential that they saw, and I
just can't wait to like pass that forward.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Eventually, speaking of love, this show is really kind of
exploring just really what it is. Yeah, okay you said
it and I snatched it. Absolute No, But like conversations
on love is something we're trying to explore. And so
growing up, how did your family talk about love and
relationships and what were the expectations of you around that.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, I guess I'm thinking about it, and we really didn't.
There wasn't really a conversation of like, I never had
the talk. I never like, I guess I talked to
my mom a little bit about when I had a girlfriend,
but that was like what should I get her to
ask her for homecoming and that kind of stuff. It
was never like fundamentals. We never really talked about her
(05:43):
experience until I got older.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
So when you got older, some walls have come down,
would you.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Say, I don't know if I would say walls came down.
I think things just came up. And because I'm older
and more mature, I was able to understand, like why
she might be acting this way and what her some
of her references are for love too.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I want to speak to that at all her references
or your reference.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
It's actually kind of funny. She used to read these
really dense, tiny books and they always had some like
wistful white woman on a horse with the guy like
leading her through the forest or whatever. Okay, And at
the time, I was like, these are weird whatever. I
read a few of them, I was like, this is
even weirder. And now that I'm like older, I'm like,
oh shit, she was readborn, I live, I live. I
(06:25):
wonder where I got it from. Yes, And it was like,
so I like she I see how she might have
been disappointed with the circumstances that she went through, because like,
it's even like the books that she read, it was
so fanciful and large and grand.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
And were her circumstances just like being alone. She was
a single mother, is that?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah? She also my dad was you know, shipped from
a butt.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
So it's like case to those dads out there.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
I mean, he's he's definitely come around, and I'm very
proud of his work. Okay, but yeah, at the moment,
it was not bueno.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
So it was of you and your mom against the world.
Are you like it was or was it you taking
care of your mom?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
It was more so that.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Totally makes sense when you moved to Boston and you
moved away from your family, Like, did that feel like
relief or did that feel like oh?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Absolutely? I had two options for college. It was either
go to Boston and spend my life paying back the
student loan debt, or go to a school in Chicago.
And I chose Boston.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
I'm going to go.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yeah, I'm going to get out far enough away. And
I was like, there's no way that can surprise me
with a trip or anything, like they have to let
me know they're coming.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Totally.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
It takes you know, like two planes to get here,
Like that will be fine. If anything, I have six
hours to boot, you know what I mean? Totally.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
How do you describe your college experience?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I would say relatively positive. I think the only thing
I struggled with was like personal growth, Like who am I?
Speaker 1 (07:52):
You know?
Speaker 2 (07:53):
But honestly, I met my best friends on this planet there.
I feel like I pushed myself. I did what I
wanted to do going there. I learned bunch. I think
it was a relatively positive experience. Yeah, there's some you know,
there was some bullshit, but you know, nevertheless, she persisted.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
So when did you kind of come out?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
I came out as bisexual in twenty twenty because I
was losing my mind in my little shoe box of
a room back home.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
The pandemic sent you over the edge.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
I was like, I can't do this anymore.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Healing.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Well, I knew something was up way before pandemic.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
You were in college, I was Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Once I got back home because we were sent home
for the pandemic, I was like, Okay, I don't want
to keep living like secretly and all this stuff. And
I came out to like my best friend in the world,
shadow Teran, And I think I download a grind room
during sophomore year of college and you know, went off
the deep end.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yeah, I'm healing.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I'm healing floor. But like I knew something was up
before then. And I used to think I was ACE
for so long just because I didn't want to engage
like I wasn't. I was in a sexual creature for
a very long time.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
And for the listener's ace asexual A get your.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Gay dictionaries, I would say, like to I really, relationships
were such like a low thing on the priority list.
It was how do I eat tonight? What clothes I'm
gonna wear? Like, how am I gonna get to point
A to point B. And it wasn't until probably coming
out where I was like, Okay, I have time for
(09:24):
a relationship.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I have time to like maybe also capacity capacity, that's.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
A good word for that. Yeah, I had the capacity
for like something totally romantic.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Okay, So you tell your best friend You're like, I'm
by Yeah. Was she like the.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Yeah, it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
It wasn't.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Everybody was right fine whatever, Okay, I hate but I
got bullied for something that they were right for.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Like, I hate that.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
I just wish I knew too, if.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
You guys would have said it a little softer.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
That's all I'm saying. Yeah. And then I came out
as non binary slash trans in maybe a year after that.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Okay, so yeah, so how did that feel?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
I never really resonated with the whole boy thing ever,
and then, yeah, it was just kind of a natural progression,
I think, because I think as soon as you start
to question like sexuality, which usually comes first for people,
you also start to question gender and how you fit
into it, right, And I didn't fit into the cars
that were laid it out from Okay, Yeah, so I
went to Chicago right after graduating college, and it was
(10:25):
just like a great way to like ease myself back
into like being just an adult, being on my own,
having full autonomy. I also started performing in drag there
I'm do in drag makeup for a while, and I
think technically my first time in drag was I was
I was Alphaba for my theater design class. Yes it
was god awful, but that was like seventeen so after
(10:47):
the pandemic, started actually performing drag in Chicago in twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Two, and so theater was like your first love, like
your first like your first sort of means of performance, Like.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, I got drag. Yeah, Yeah, it was definitely how
I got into it. But I would say like the
first thing I loved to do was probably saying.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
So, did drag performance come first? Or did coming out
as trans come first?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Good question, That's actually a really good question. If I'm
remembering correctly. I wanted to do drag before I came
out as not binary. Okay, When I was doing drag,
it was the fuckeray of the gender system and all
that kind of stuff really did help like illuminate some
things that I just wasn't comfortable with. And I don't
know if you know this, but in theater the binary
(11:32):
is so prevalent. It felt like, Okay, wig off, blah
blah blah blah, let's go back to being a boy
and try to get the leading role and yeah, you know,
I have to sing a song about loving a girl.
It's just like it wasn't It wasn't working totally. So
it's nice to like have the drag performance side and
like it influences my day to day where I was like, Okay,
(11:53):
wait a second, I felt really good in this hair,
in this makeup, I felt really good wearing these clothes.
Why am I not doing that more? And why am
I like trying to be something that I'm not.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I want to talk more about the drag culture in
New York and what that's done for you and how
they've brought you in. How did you even begin to
approach it? Who encouraged you to perform drag in New
York specifically?
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Thankfully I wasn't starting from zero, which I can imagine
is really, really, really hard. I think my first gig here,
I can't quite remember what my first one was, but
I do remember one of my first ones was my
friend Cherry booked me to do a cupcake I know,
cherry Cherry Veronica Ja. Yes, she booked me to do
a cupcake theme show like Coupcake the Wrapper, and I
(12:59):
absolutely loved you. It was everything. Yeah, and then I
was like, yeah, I think I'm doing the right thing,
and I felt like able to keep going. There's also
a weekly competition at Pieces Bar called drag Wars. I
started there as well too, and it's just been like
if my friend is doing a comedy show, open for
them or like one off gigs for a while. I'm
still working on getting to like a weekly thing right now.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Okay, cool? God, so much work for.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
You, absolutely makeup.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I was watching your make I was watching all your
videos last night, but I was watching your like drag
for Dummies videos, which I was so thankful for literally
thank you. But I'm like, this is so much work.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Yeah, well, thankfully that was a pageant. That's a special
kind of thing I wouldn't do. You wouldn't go that hard,
that that hardy, Yeah, yeah, especially because it was all
on one night. I don't know if you would. Right.
I'm still struggling to know if I'm going to do
a Passion again or not.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Okay, and I think I heard a snippet of this online,
but I wanted to know a little bit about like
collaboration versus competition. Okay, in drag in New York. Yeah,
how does that feel?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
I feel like I have a really hard and this
is just my experience. I don't know how other drag
people feel, but I have a really hard time accepting
that we just have to compete and almost get judged
in comparison to other people when what we really mean
(14:22):
is we need to pay drag queens more. We need
resources and accessibility for drag queens, drug artists, rec things,
drag kings in order to make art to the degree
of what someone you know, what the six figure job
could do. You know what I mean. Not a lot
of people have the luxury of expendable income going into drag.
(14:46):
And I'm telling you, like these booking fees for like
a gig, it's either zero dollars to like one hundred
and fifty And even if you do four weekly gigs,
one hundred and fifty dollars in New York City is
literally now like you spend you spend at least fifty
dollars a week in transit so it's like, there's no
way that it's sustainable, right, So I always think that
(15:08):
there has to be a different way. I don't know
what that looks like right now, and I don't have
the capacity to like build some kind of thing that
would help mitigate that problem. But yeah, I've definitely identified
that it makes me anxious to compete.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah, no, me too. And I think in New York
competition is in the water kind of.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, it's like it's so American too. It's like American
how it's like we don't operate as a community and
we don't uplift people. But it's like who do you know?
And all this like different stuff that's kind of superfluous
in the grand scheme of things.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Do you have someone who's sort of like walked you
through this process, shown you the ropes, or do you
feel like you've kind of just like gotten your way
through kind of just like stomping through on your own,
figuring it out. Has anyone kind of held your hand
through this process?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
There's been like a lot of people along the way.
I wouldn't say one person did that. I would say
Cherry helped me out a bunch when I got here.
My friend Finn in Chicago helped me out a bunch.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
What is the draw to New York? You were just like,
I need bigger, I need brighter, I need more? Or
was it?
Speaker 2 (16:15):
It was kind of always the plan and the only
thing I was holding me back was the money. Like
once I started making my own money, thank God, thank
you Jesus, I was like, Okay, I think I'm ready
to move to Brooklyn. And I also moved here with
my best friend on this planet. Okay, Well, it was
just like I had a support system here. I knew
I wanted to do theater at a larger scale and
do drag at a larger scale. And I love Chicago
(16:38):
and I honestly probably will go back eventually. But okay,
I knew that I wanted to try New York, and
if I kept putting it off, I think I would
have stayed in Chicago forever.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
So right, and it's treating you well.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Well, well is so hmmm? Well, I wouldn't say, well,
I think I'm finding my way. I am having the
problem right now where I'm dealing with a lot of rejection,
a lot of rejection in my career.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I have to say, it's so interesting that you say
that because as like an outsider and someone watching you,
and I'm sure you feel the disconnect all the time,
like the way you're perceived and the way your day
to day actually is.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Yeah. I mean, if you ask anyone in my support system,
I guess they would be able to tell you, like
what's actually happening. But on social media, whereas I try
my best to be authentic and like show things, there's
just like things I can't say or totally want to
share of course, you know, especially like things that should
be private, like where I'm at in my transition and
things like that. Like there's there's a lot of things
happening that I just don't want to or can't post about.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
You know, does drag help you express some of that
turmoil in your life? Totally?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Oh my god, Yeah, it's if anything, it's a good
escape for five minutes, you know, totally. I'm actually planning
on like making some kind of like limited series show
thing where I ask other transferms who do drag, like
what does that look like? And I wonder what my
experience compares to others about like escapism with drag high femininity,
(18:05):
what that looks like and how it helps in a
day to.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Day How do you think it helps.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
You're figuring it out.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
I have no clue. Yeah, all I know is that
drag my and my drag name and my name are
the same. But like I know, my drag persona is
sometimes either the best version of myself or the most
honest version of myself. And there's been performances where like
I almost cry at the end of it because it's like, oh,
(18:34):
that felt so good to like just release almost so
I think it's for me. I think being a drag
queen who's transfem is about escapism. It's about connecting with
femininity and like affirming myself almost so I wonder what
other girls might say.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
There are like two versions of escapism, like a disruptive one.
I have been like a beautiful I'm a.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Huge advocate for like using escapism powerfully and like specifically, Yeah,
I do think there's moments in times where people should
lock in and like totally don't take your eyes away
from this, and it's important to learn about things that
are happening in the world. But I also think it's time,
like there's always a time for you to like take
care of yourself. Yeah, imagine if you were a vampire
(19:20):
getting railed in the back of a Toyota camping you know,
like that, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
You know what I mean, I do know what you mean.
Let yourself disconnect for a seconds. Yeah, you said you're
in a rough patch. But what has been the highlights
so far of your drag career?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
I would say opening for Bob was probably like, Okay,
I'm doing something right, Bob.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
The drug Queen, Yeah, can you walk me through that night?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
That moment, Well, I knew that Bob was going on tour,
and I DMed her asking if I could open for
her in New York. She already had openers in New York,
but she asked if I could do like the second
to last show in La So I was like.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
So you sent a DM.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, I mean clothes mouse, don't give a and.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I love that. She called you the future of drag.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Anna and I is the future of drag. I've watched
them grow on this app. The self marketing amazing, the
looks great, the creativity, unafraid, unapologetic, mark my words. Once
and and I had come to the top of the
ranks of the drag world. Just remember that I told
you that.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
How did that make you feel?
Speaker 2 (20:25):
She is like one of my favorite people ever on
this planet and like having that sign off, Oh god, yeah,
I was a mess for like weeks, so honored.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
All it takes is a DM sometimes sometimes thankfully we
are already connected. Okay, okay, okay, yeah, thank you so
much for clarifying that, because I was like, Wow, I
think people underestimate the power of a DM though.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yeah, I mean my thing was, especially after that moment,
I was like, Okay, I just need to be a
little more assertive.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Totally.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
I mean the worst thing she had to said was now, yeah, totally.
I would say another one of my highlights is the
pageant I just did last week. Because the thing is,
I'm only in competition with myself, like I want to
impress myself and I did absolutely that and I'm so
proud of myself. So honestly, it's like, how do I
keep like topping myself to myself. It's hard to do,
(21:19):
but I've god damn it, someone.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
The future.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Yeah. So I'm just like, I'm of a mind where
I want to keep pushing myself and keep impressing myself.
And I don't know if that looks like drag Race,
which would be cool, but again, the whole competition thing,
it makes me anxious. But I also think the show
shifted from competition to like reality TV, where I don't
(21:46):
know if I want to do that. All I know
is that I have a lot of dreams and I
want more and more and more and more, and I
can't wait to get it.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
I feel like people talk a lot about chosen families
when it comes to drag Yeah, can you walk me
through that a little. Do you have a chosen family?
Are those just your besties?
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Is that sure? I'm not in a drag house technically?
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Can you describe a drag house a drag house?
Speaker 2 (22:25):
I think a house stemmed from ballroom culture in the
eighties nineties and drag performers and drag mothers and drag
king drag fathers are people who do the same thing
like a house mother would. They take people under their wing,
coach them, give them advice. Sometimes if it's like a
dire situation, sometimes they'll live with them, like things like that.
(22:46):
It's a very it's like a found family kind of thing. Like, Yeah,
if you're starting out and you show potential and there's
someone who might be older or like have more experience
than you, and they take you under their wings.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
That's all it, totally, and so you kind of feel
like there's someone in your life you're under their wing
right now.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
No, not right now. I don't have like a drag house,
but me and my support system here in New York,
we call ourselves the House of Fantasy. It's really fun.
I am so endlessly proud of each one of us,
and it feels like we have each other's back. Like
my sister, she's just got top surgery and she's just
staying with me for a week, and it's nice to
(23:28):
know that we can take care of each other. Of course,
it's just like it makes New York a little easier
to breathe in, honestly, just knowing that there's five, six, seven,
ten people who are like, I'm rooting for you and
I'm rooting for them.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Justice of course you need it, Yeah, it's so necessary.
Were they at your competition?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
They were there? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (23:48):
We did they help you with that outfit and the
makeup and everything.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Oh my god, it Teaman and I was literally everybody
you can think of it. It's like I can there's
no way to do that kind of like drag without help.
There's specifically, I was doing a Beyonce impersonation and I
had this idea to like make a denim veil tarp
kind of thing, and I was going to Rindstone, Texas
hold them on it. And I made the tart myself,
(24:13):
like cut up drifted jeans and like sewed it and
glued it onto this like sheet and stand and it
was time to rhine zone and I said, oh no,
I can't. I can't do it because it was at
least like five thousand rhinestones worth of just like I couldn't.
I was gonna lose my mind, and I asked for help.
And it was like three days of like rhyanstone in
the house down boots and it was crazy.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
It was crazy, And that's true friendship, that's true community.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
I literally could never repay them. I mean it was
like a pizza and night, you know. I was like
I can't, guys, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah, I'm like this community sounds so supportive growing up,
Like do you think this was the type of community
you longed for or do you think you had it
in a different way.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
This is exactly kind of what I needed. I feel
so whole like now that I'm a part of that
kind of family, especially because the family dynamic growing up
was nothing to the degree of what I have now. Thankfully,
me and my siblings are trying to like rekindle and
like work things out and like salvage what we can
while we're still here.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Me and my siblings are all pretty estranged as well. Wow, No,
it sucks, It really sucks, really bad.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
A huge part of it too, is like it's not
your fault, No, totally do like at a certain point
you just have to blame the parents.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Because and it's like, I know, y'll try your best,
you know, so I respect that. I do want to
know where that tension comes from for y'all, for us,
we're all in different spaces politically, sure, but what's keeping
you disconnected now in adulthood?
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Well where I don't know what the right way to
say this is. We're a mixed family. I have two
half siblings, my full siblings and I are all ten
years apart. Right, tension there just because we like we'd
have different references. They like have an entire like like
two pages of movies that I need to watch. Apparently
(26:02):
I was like, okay, but have you ever seen like SpongeBob?
I don't know, Like, have you ever seen I don't
know anyway. Yeah, so there's some tension there with my
half siblings. They both have different moms too, so there's
three mothers in this sibling situation. So there's just like
me and my sister. She lives in Arkansas. We grew
(26:24):
up apart, Me and my younger brother. We grew up apart,
and then I kind of grew up apart from my
full siblings too because when I was cognizant of the world,
she was going to college, you know. So yeah, it's
just like wrong place, wrong time. Our parents weren't very capable. Yeah,
(26:47):
it's just like things like that. But we're working on it.
I'm very proud of us. Every single day is like
we make the conscious effort to like try to make
something shake.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
All you can do is make the effort absolutely And
how do they feel about you doing drag? Ah? I
think good.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I think good. I hope they would. Yeah, I mean
we don't really, they don't really get us, sirve I.
My sister Anna, she is so hands on in like
a part of it where it's just it's really really
nice my older sister Angie, she came around. It's really
nice to have her there too. I don't think they've
(27:21):
seen me in drag that like in person. I don't
think they've came. Maybe I made that up. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Is that something you kind of long for or do not? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Again, family like family for me is a completely different beast.
Like on Drag, Racey did a makeover episode with their
mom and dads like coming to like get put in
their drag by their kids. I don't think that could
ever happen for me. So it's like I just have
to like consider how other people might have different references
for how a family should look or what their family does.
(27:54):
So whenever the schedule is aligne, yeah, I would love
for them to come see me and Drag.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
You keep talking about how you have such a great
support system of friends, but how independent would you say
you are?
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Like very much, So it's a huge problem that keeps
coming out. I think there was no other way for
me to like make it through totally. Yes I did.
I mean, I'm a very specific person. I know what
I want, and I think one of the things I
like about myself. My therapist might say, hey, maybe we
should work on that, is that I know that I'm
able to give myself exactly what I need when I
(28:27):
need it.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
M h.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
So, yeah, I'm always trying to ask for help, and
I did ask for help a bunch for the drag pageant.
That's amazing, But like, yeah, I'm usually self sufficient.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
I want to talk a little bit about the word boysover. Okay, Yeah,
it's a lot about knowing yourself. You talked about escapism.
I had a problem with escapism, but I wouldn't say
in like the best way. I would say in the
chaotic way. So that's what made me sort of have
to like take a step back and realign. Have you
ever thought about doing the same thing, sort of going
(28:58):
boys sober or like what is your relationship to the
term itself?
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah? I think I kind of fell off the deep
end to during college when I first started exploring sexuality
and like dating and stuff, I had huge self esteem issues,
especially like with the whole hookup culture with like gay
men and stuff. I was like, Okay, maybe you know,
I am a little farther away from what these guys
got going on. I think I knew something had to
(29:24):
shake when I went on this date with a person.
They took me to some like fuck ass dive bar
or something, and then we went back to my place
and we hooked up whatever I remember they were. We
were shirtless or whatever, and they like looked at my
stretch marks and they're like, are you hurting yourself? I said, oh,
oh shit, Okay. That's the moment when I was like, no,
(29:48):
I gotta I really gotta lock in, because not only
as was this person dumb as shit, I had to
be on the receiving end of that. I was like, no,
these are just stretch marks. This is my body. Also,
I wasn't having a good time, so then I was
like why am I doing this? And I think that
kind of started the whole like decentering men specifically thing
(30:11):
and desentering like romance, where I was like, okay, I
had all of these presconceived notions from like fan fiction
and romance novels and like movies and stuff of like
this is how romance should be, and like even like
the raunchy stuff like getting taken back home after a bar,
like I always thought it was supposed to go like
a different way, And in that moment, I was like,
oh no, fuck this shit, Like I will never put
(30:33):
myself in this position again where I am offended by
some random person I never want to see again. So
I think after that, I was very specific with who
I wanted to like be around and like who got
to like touch and like see my body and stuff
like that. So when I hear like boysover, I'm like, Okay,
(30:54):
I know that I need to be very specific and
intentional about like who. It's a piece of phantom, I
you know what I mean. Yes, I'm dating my boyfriend
right now and it's been great because he's so respectful
of my body and very sensitive to like my experiences.
But literally, right before that, I was like in a
zone where I was like tired of dating and like
(31:16):
I kind of wanted to just be like alone and
like explore what it needs to be just like not
reliant on rapid hookups and stuff like that. So it
was nice when he came around and I was like, Okay,
I'm pretty excited about this.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeah, what does love feel like to you? Now? Like?
How do you define that? How do you how do
you think?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Love? To me feels like wanting to wake up, like
wanting to go about your day. It feels like warm
and fuzzies in your stomach, and like, I think I
expressed a lot of love through laughter, So yeah, I
would say love laughter connection in the sense of whether
(32:01):
it be sensuality or friendship, I don't know, having the
same goals, being reliable. I think that's what love looks
like and feels like to me.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
And where are you finding love the most right now?
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Honestly? And I'm really proud of myself, I would say
from myself right now, which has been a long joby,
I'm like, I don't know, Johnny Honey, sure, but yeah,
i feel like I love myself so much, and I'm
very excited to see what happens and where I take myself.
(32:35):
I'm very happy that I'm to a point where, no
matter what happens, no matter what Hay comm and I
get or what TikTok gets reposted on Twitter, I still
love myself at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
What would you say to someone who's, like maybe in
high school going through it, Like, I don't know, what
is your advice to someone who would maybe want to
follow in your shoes? I feel like there are probably
so many people that you do inspire.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
To think, you know, like that's just true.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
I guess I would say, like, if need be hunger down,
be safe, survive, like it does get better, just hold out,
rely on the people who are showing you that they're
there for you. I think that's exactly what Anna and
I would have needed.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Loving and caring for yourself is tricky business. I feel
like I've learned from Ann Andaya how to get one
step closer to it, and I hope you feel that
way too. Thanks for listening. Talk to y'all next week.
(33:42):
Boy Sover is a production of iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host,
Hope Ordered. Our executive producers are Christina Everett and Julie Pinero.
Our supervising producer is Emily Meronoff engineering by Bahid Fraser
and mixing and mastering by a Boo Zafar. If you
liked this episode, please tell a friend and don't forget
(34:03):
to rate, review, and subscribe to boy Sober on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your favorite shows.
Hello, beautiful listeners. We're busy working on our next episodes,
and we have a question for you. What's a red
flag you love to ignore? Mine is when a guy
breadcrumbs me terrible. Send us your answers by leaving us
a voicemail at five one eight eight three seven six
(00:21):
two three seven, or email us a voice note at
boy Sober Podcast at gmail dot com. Okay, now on
with the episode.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I'm anon I. Hi. My name is Ananaya. This is
gat Arc Hi, I'm Anonaya.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
This is Gadar.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Today, I'm gonna find out if you're a gay, straight
or a homosode. I want to say you are gay. Yeah, gay.
I'm gonna say you're like a fin bisexual. But it's
a very new things.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I am a fem bisexual. It's not a new thing.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I'm gonna go with your straight, but had to by
curious phase.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I wish I were bye.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I really tried. I tried. I have a theory. I
think princess a he him lesbian. I say this all
the time.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
That's a really good theory.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, thank you. I came up with it myself.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Do you recognize that voice? The host of Gaydar might
be all over your social feed, telling people who they are,
but who is she really? This week we bring you
Anna Naya's story of self actualization, community and love. I'm
(01:30):
hopewordered and welcome to Voice Over, a space where we're
learning and on learning all the myths we're taught about
love and relationships. Our guest today does it all. She's
(01:52):
a singer, dancer, actor, and drag queen. She's also the
host of the popular TikTok series Gaydar, where she's told
guests like Rene rap So we're on Mom, Donnie and
Chapel Roone whether they are gay, straight, or a homophobe.
She is Annaia, and I really wanted to talk to
her to better understand the work that went into becoming
(02:15):
who she is now and what she's facing in her
day to day And honestly, I just wanted to shoot
the ship with someone smart, funny, and confident. Welcome to
the show, Anna Anaya. Hi, you live in New York.
(02:35):
Your family, though, is in Chicago.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
You're from Iowa.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
You're from Iowa. How has that transition been transition? No,
but like you grew up in a small town.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yeah, well, I guess in the context of the nation. Yeah,
in context of Iowa was from like the third largest city.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Or something like that.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Okay, So I didn't feel like that until I moved
to Boston for school.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Okay. Yeah, walk me through your childhood a little, your
family vibes.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
It was me and my mom for a very long time.
My dad started getting visitation again, which is crazy. Okay,
around nine years old, Okay, And yeah, it wasn't easy.
Me and my parents have a really hard relationship. But
the thing that I wish I had more of was
like time to just figure some shit out, like back
(03:23):
in the back then, back then. Yeah, I feel like
it was survival mode, you know, for eighteen years of
my life. Yeah, I'm really honored that I figured some
shut out.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah totally. I went down a rabbit hole on your
TikTok oh, and I was listening to your actual singing voice.
You are a wonderful singer. Oh. So I was like wow.
And so I was curious, like where that came from.
What sort of introduced you generally to like performing.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I did start in the church, like every other black
kid in the middle of nowhere. I mean, I always
say this, I'm always grateful to the church for showing
me gospel music. Because that's that's exactly how I did
get started. If I ever have kids, I want to
show them gospel music and not necessarily the church. And
then I started doing choir in school and just like
random gigs and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Who is sort of like supporting you during that time?
Did you have somebody who was like, You're an amazing performer,
follow this truth or was it sort of just internal?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah? I had a couple of people. I'm thinking of
my high school a choir director, Michael Reese. He was great.
He was like a fun little guy. I think what
I liked about him the most was that he pushed
me to be a better performer, which in turn like
made me get out of my own head and troubles
at home, which is really nice.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
My theater director, she was so motherly when I needed it,
you know what I mean. And I do theater now
because of her, And it's just like I want to
always pay her back for the kindness that she showed
me because she really didn't have to. But yeah, I
think I'm a summation of the love that they poured
into me and the potential that they saw, and I
just can't wait to like pass that forward.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Eventually, speaking of love, this show is really kind of
exploring just really what it is. Yeah, okay you said
it and I snatched it. Absolute No, But like conversations
on love is something we're trying to explore. And so
growing up, how did your family talk about love and
relationships and what were the expectations of you around that.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, I guess I'm thinking about it, and we really didn't.
There wasn't really a conversation of like, I never had
the talk. I never like, I guess I talked to
my mom a little bit about when I had a girlfriend,
but that was like what should I get her to
ask her for homecoming and that kind of stuff. It
was never like fundamentals. We never really talked about her
(05:43):
experience until I got older.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
So when you got older, some walls have come down,
would you.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Say, I don't know if I would say walls came down.
I think things just came up. And because I'm older
and more mature, I was able to understand, like why
she might be acting this way and what her some
of her references are for love too.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I want to speak to that at all her references
or your reference.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
It's actually kind of funny. She used to read these
really dense, tiny books and they always had some like
wistful white woman on a horse with the guy like
leading her through the forest or whatever. Okay, And at
the time, I was like, these are weird whatever. I
read a few of them, I was like, this is
even weirder. And now that I'm like older, I'm like,
oh shit, she was readborn, I live, I live. I
(06:25):
wonder where I got it from. Yes, And it was like,
so I like she I see how she might have
been disappointed with the circumstances that she went through, because like,
it's even like the books that she read, it was
so fanciful and large and grand.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
And were her circumstances just like being alone. She was
a single mother, is that?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah? She also my dad was you know, shipped from
a butt.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
So it's like case to those dads out there.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
I mean, he's he's definitely come around, and I'm very
proud of his work. Okay, but yeah, at the moment,
it was not bueno.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
So it was of you and your mom against the world.
Are you like it was or was it you taking
care of your mom?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
It was more so that.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Totally makes sense when you moved to Boston and you
moved away from your family, Like, did that feel like
relief or did that feel like oh?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Absolutely? I had two options for college. It was either
go to Boston and spend my life paying back the
student loan debt, or go to a school in Chicago.
And I chose Boston.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
I'm going to go.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yeah, I'm going to get out far enough away. And
I was like, there's no way that can surprise me
with a trip or anything, like they have to let
me know they're coming.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Totally.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
It takes you know, like two planes to get here,
Like that will be fine. If anything, I have six
hours to boot, you know what I mean? Totally.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
How do you describe your college experience?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I would say relatively positive. I think the only thing
I struggled with was like personal growth, Like who am I?
Speaker 1 (07:52):
You know?
Speaker 2 (07:53):
But honestly, I met my best friends on this planet there.
I feel like I pushed myself. I did what I
wanted to do going there. I learned bunch. I think
it was a relatively positive experience. Yeah, there's some you know,
there was some bullshit, but you know, nevertheless, she persisted.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
So when did you kind of come out?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
I came out as bisexual in twenty twenty because I
was losing my mind in my little shoe box of
a room back home.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
The pandemic sent you over the edge.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
I was like, I can't do this anymore.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Healing.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Well, I knew something was up way before pandemic.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
You were in college, I was Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Once I got back home because we were sent home
for the pandemic, I was like, Okay, I don't want
to keep living like secretly and all this stuff. And
I came out to like my best friend in the world,
shadow Teran, And I think I download a grind room
during sophomore year of college and you know, went off
the deep end.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yeah, I'm healing.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I'm healing floor. But like I knew something was up
before then. And I used to think I was ACE
for so long just because I didn't want to engage
like I wasn't. I was in a sexual creature for
a very long time.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
And for the listener's ace asexual A get your.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Gay dictionaries, I would say, like to I really, relationships
were such like a low thing on the priority list.
It was how do I eat tonight? What clothes I'm
gonna wear? Like, how am I gonna get to point
A to point B. And it wasn't until probably coming
out where I was like, Okay, I have time for
(09:24):
a relationship.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I have time to like maybe also capacity capacity, that's.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
A good word for that. Yeah, I had the capacity
for like something totally romantic.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Okay, So you tell your best friend You're like, I'm
by Yeah. Was she like the.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Yeah, it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
It wasn't.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Everybody was right fine whatever, Okay, I hate but I
got bullied for something that they were right for.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Like, I hate that.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
I just wish I knew too, if.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
You guys would have said it a little softer.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
That's all I'm saying. Yeah. And then I came out
as non binary slash trans in maybe a year after that.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Okay, so yeah, so how did that feel?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
I never really resonated with the whole boy thing ever,
and then, yeah, it was just kind of a natural progression,
I think, because I think as soon as you start
to question like sexuality, which usually comes first for people,
you also start to question gender and how you fit
into it, right, And I didn't fit into the cars
that were laid it out from Okay, Yeah, so I
went to Chicago right after graduating college, and it was
(10:25):
just like a great way to like ease myself back
into like being just an adult, being on my own,
having full autonomy. I also started performing in drag there
I'm do in drag makeup for a while, and I
think technically my first time in drag was I was
I was Alphaba for my theater design class. Yes it
was god awful, but that was like seventeen so after
(10:47):
the pandemic, started actually performing drag in Chicago in twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Two, and so theater was like your first love, like
your first like your first sort of means of performance, Like.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, I got drag. Yeah, Yeah, it was definitely how
I got into it. But I would say like the
first thing I loved to do was probably saying.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
So, did drag performance come first? Or did coming out
as trans come first?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Good question, That's actually a really good question. If I'm
remembering correctly. I wanted to do drag before I came
out as not binary. Okay, When I was doing drag,
it was the fuckeray of the gender system and all
that kind of stuff really did help like illuminate some
things that I just wasn't comfortable with. And I don't
know if you know this, but in theater the binary
(11:32):
is so prevalent. It felt like, Okay, wig off, blah
blah blah blah, let's go back to being a boy
and try to get the leading role and yeah, you know,
I have to sing a song about loving a girl.
It's just like it wasn't It wasn't working totally. So
it's nice to like have the drag performance side and
like it influences my day to day where I was like, Okay,
(11:53):
wait a second, I felt really good in this hair,
in this makeup, I felt really good wearing these clothes.
Why am I not doing that more? And why am
I like trying to be something that I'm not.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I want to talk more about the drag culture in
New York and what that's done for you and how
they've brought you in. How did you even begin to
approach it? Who encouraged you to perform drag in New
York specifically?
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Thankfully I wasn't starting from zero, which I can imagine
is really, really, really hard. I think my first gig here,
I can't quite remember what my first one was, but
I do remember one of my first ones was my
friend Cherry booked me to do a cupcake I know,
cherry Cherry Veronica Ja. Yes, she booked me to do
a cupcake theme show like Coupcake the Wrapper, and I
(12:59):
absolutely loved you. It was everything. Yeah, and then I
was like, yeah, I think I'm doing the right thing,
and I felt like able to keep going. There's also
a weekly competition at Pieces Bar called drag Wars. I
started there as well too, and it's just been like
if my friend is doing a comedy show, open for
them or like one off gigs for a while. I'm
still working on getting to like a weekly thing right now.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Okay, cool? God, so much work for.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
You, absolutely makeup.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I was watching your make I was watching all your
videos last night, but I was watching your like drag
for Dummies videos, which I was so thankful for literally
thank you. But I'm like, this is so much work.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Yeah, well, thankfully that was a pageant. That's a special
kind of thing I wouldn't do. You wouldn't go that hard,
that that hardy, Yeah, yeah, especially because it was all
on one night. I don't know if you would. Right.
I'm still struggling to know if I'm going to do
a Passion again or not.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Okay, and I think I heard a snippet of this online,
but I wanted to know a little bit about like
collaboration versus competition. Okay, in drag in New York. Yeah,
how does that feel?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
I feel like I have a really hard and this
is just my experience. I don't know how other drag
people feel, but I have a really hard time accepting
that we just have to compete and almost get judged
in comparison to other people when what we really mean
(14:22):
is we need to pay drag queens more. We need
resources and accessibility for drag queens, drug artists, rec things,
drag kings in order to make art to the degree
of what someone you know, what the six figure job
could do. You know what I mean. Not a lot
of people have the luxury of expendable income going into drag.
(14:46):
And I'm telling you, like these booking fees for like
a gig, it's either zero dollars to like one hundred
and fifty And even if you do four weekly gigs,
one hundred and fifty dollars in New York City is
literally now like you spend you spend at least fifty
dollars a week in transit so it's like, there's no
way that it's sustainable, right, So I always think that
(15:08):
there has to be a different way. I don't know
what that looks like right now, and I don't have
the capacity to like build some kind of thing that
would help mitigate that problem. But yeah, I've definitely identified
that it makes me anxious to compete.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah, no, me too. And I think in New York
competition is in the water kind of.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, it's like it's so American too. It's like American
how it's like we don't operate as a community and
we don't uplift people. But it's like who do you know?
And all this like different stuff that's kind of superfluous
in the grand scheme of things.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Do you have someone who's sort of like walked you
through this process, shown you the ropes, or do you
feel like you've kind of just like gotten your way
through kind of just like stomping through on your own,
figuring it out. Has anyone kind of held your hand
through this process?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
There's been like a lot of people along the way.
I wouldn't say one person did that. I would say
Cherry helped me out a bunch when I got here.
My friend Finn in Chicago helped me out a bunch.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
What is the draw to New York? You were just like,
I need bigger, I need brighter, I need more? Or
was it?
Speaker 2 (16:15):
It was kind of always the plan and the only
thing I was holding me back was the money. Like
once I started making my own money, thank God, thank
you Jesus, I was like, Okay, I think I'm ready
to move to Brooklyn. And I also moved here with
my best friend on this planet. Okay, Well, it was
just like I had a support system here. I knew
I wanted to do theater at a larger scale and
do drag at a larger scale. And I love Chicago
(16:38):
and I honestly probably will go back eventually. But okay,
I knew that I wanted to try New York, and
if I kept putting it off, I think I would
have stayed in Chicago forever.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
So right, and it's treating you well.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Well, well is so hmmm? Well, I wouldn't say, well,
I think I'm finding my way. I am having the
problem right now where I'm dealing with a lot of rejection,
a lot of rejection in my career.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I have to say, it's so interesting that you say
that because as like an outsider and someone watching you,
and I'm sure you feel the disconnect all the time,
like the way you're perceived and the way your day
to day actually is.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Yeah. I mean, if you ask anyone in my support system,
I guess they would be able to tell you, like
what's actually happening. But on social media, whereas I try
my best to be authentic and like show things, there's
just like things I can't say or totally want to
share of course, you know, especially like things that should
be private, like where I'm at in my transition and
things like that. Like there's there's a lot of things
happening that I just don't want to or can't post about.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
You know, does drag help you express some of that
turmoil in your life? Totally?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Oh my god, Yeah, it's if anything, it's a good
escape for five minutes, you know, totally. I'm actually planning
on like making some kind of like limited series show
thing where I ask other transferms who do drag, like
what does that look like? And I wonder what my
experience compares to others about like escapism with drag high femininity,
(18:05):
what that looks like and how it helps in a
day to.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Day How do you think it helps.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
You're figuring it out.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
I have no clue. Yeah, all I know is that
drag my and my drag name and my name are
the same. But like I know, my drag persona is
sometimes either the best version of myself or the most
honest version of myself. And there's been performances where like
I almost cry at the end of it because it's like, oh,
(18:34):
that felt so good to like just release almost so
I think it's for me. I think being a drag
queen who's transfem is about escapism. It's about connecting with
femininity and like affirming myself almost so I wonder what
other girls might say.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
There are like two versions of escapism, like a disruptive one.
I have been like a beautiful I'm a.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Huge advocate for like using escapism powerfully and like specifically, Yeah,
I do think there's moments in times where people should
lock in and like totally don't take your eyes away
from this, and it's important to learn about things that
are happening in the world. But I also think it's time,
like there's always a time for you to like take
care of yourself. Yeah, imagine if you were a vampire
(19:20):
getting railed in the back of a Toyota camping you know,
like that, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
You know what I mean, I do know what you mean.
Let yourself disconnect for a seconds. Yeah, you said you're
in a rough patch. But what has been the highlights
so far of your drag career?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
I would say opening for Bob was probably like, Okay,
I'm doing something right, Bob.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
The drug Queen, Yeah, can you walk me through that night?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
That moment, Well, I knew that Bob was going on tour,
and I DMed her asking if I could open for
her in New York. She already had openers in New York,
but she asked if I could do like the second
to last show in La So I was like.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
So you sent a DM.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, I mean clothes mouse, don't give a and.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I love that. She called you the future of drag.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Anna and I is the future of drag. I've watched
them grow on this app. The self marketing amazing, the
looks great, the creativity, unafraid, unapologetic, mark my words. Once
and and I had come to the top of the
ranks of the drag world. Just remember that I told
you that.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
How did that make you feel?
Speaker 2 (20:25):
She is like one of my favorite people ever on
this planet and like having that sign off, Oh god, yeah,
I was a mess for like weeks, so honored.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
All it takes is a DM sometimes sometimes thankfully we
are already connected. Okay, okay, okay, yeah, thank you so
much for clarifying that, because I was like, Wow, I
think people underestimate the power of a DM though.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yeah, I mean my thing was, especially after that moment,
I was like, Okay, I just need to be a
little more assertive.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Totally.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
I mean the worst thing she had to said was now, yeah, totally.
I would say another one of my highlights is the
pageant I just did last week. Because the thing is,
I'm only in competition with myself, like I want to
impress myself and I did absolutely that and I'm so
proud of myself. So honestly, it's like, how do I
keep like topping myself to myself. It's hard to do,
(21:19):
but I've god damn it, someone.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
The future.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Yeah. So I'm just like, I'm of a mind where
I want to keep pushing myself and keep impressing myself.
And I don't know if that looks like drag Race,
which would be cool, but again, the whole competition thing,
it makes me anxious. But I also think the show
shifted from competition to like reality TV, where I don't
(21:46):
know if I want to do that. All I know
is that I have a lot of dreams and I
want more and more and more and more, and I
can't wait to get it.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
I feel like people talk a lot about chosen families
when it comes to drag Yeah, can you walk me
through that a little. Do you have a chosen family?
Are those just your besties?
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Is that sure? I'm not in a drag house technically?
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Can you describe a drag house a drag house?
Speaker 2 (22:25):
I think a house stemmed from ballroom culture in the
eighties nineties and drag performers and drag mothers and drag
king drag fathers are people who do the same thing
like a house mother would. They take people under their wing,
coach them, give them advice. Sometimes if it's like a
dire situation, sometimes they'll live with them, like things like that.
(22:46):
It's a very it's like a found family kind of thing. Like, Yeah,
if you're starting out and you show potential and there's
someone who might be older or like have more experience
than you, and they take you under their wings.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
That's all it, totally, and so you kind of feel
like there's someone in your life you're under their wing
right now.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
No, not right now. I don't have like a drag house,
but me and my support system here in New York,
we call ourselves the House of Fantasy. It's really fun.
I am so endlessly proud of each one of us,
and it feels like we have each other's back. Like
my sister, she's just got top surgery and she's just
staying with me for a week, and it's nice to
(23:28):
know that we can take care of each other. Of course,
it's just like it makes New York a little easier
to breathe in, honestly, just knowing that there's five, six, seven,
ten people who are like, I'm rooting for you and
I'm rooting for them.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Justice of course you need it, Yeah, it's so necessary.
Were they at your competition?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
They were there? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (23:48):
We did they help you with that outfit and the
makeup and everything.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Oh my god, it Teaman and I was literally everybody
you can think of it. It's like I can there's
no way to do that kind of like drag without help.
There's specifically, I was doing a Beyonce impersonation and I
had this idea to like make a denim veil tarp
kind of thing, and I was going to Rindstone, Texas
hold them on it. And I made the tart myself,
(24:13):
like cut up drifted jeans and like sewed it and
glued it onto this like sheet and stand and it
was time to rhine zone and I said, oh no,
I can't. I can't do it because it was at
least like five thousand rhinestones worth of just like I couldn't.
I was gonna lose my mind, and I asked for help.
And it was like three days of like rhyanstone in
the house down boots and it was crazy.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
It was crazy, And that's true friendship, that's true community.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
I literally could never repay them. I mean it was
like a pizza and night, you know. I was like
I can't, guys, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah, I'm like this community sounds so supportive growing up,
Like do you think this was the type of community
you longed for or do you think you had it
in a different way.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
This is exactly kind of what I needed. I feel
so whole like now that I'm a part of that
kind of family, especially because the family dynamic growing up
was nothing to the degree of what I have now. Thankfully,
me and my siblings are trying to like rekindle and
like work things out and like salvage what we can
while we're still here.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Me and my siblings are all pretty estranged as well. Wow, No,
it sucks, It really sucks, really bad.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
A huge part of it too, is like it's not
your fault, No, totally do like at a certain point
you just have to blame the parents.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Because and it's like, I know, y'll try your best,
you know, so I respect that. I do want to
know where that tension comes from for y'all, for us,
we're all in different spaces politically, sure, but what's keeping
you disconnected now in adulthood?
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Well where I don't know what the right way to
say this is. We're a mixed family. I have two
half siblings, my full siblings and I are all ten
years apart. Right, tension there just because we like we'd
have different references. They like have an entire like like
two pages of movies that I need to watch. Apparently
(26:02):
I was like, okay, but have you ever seen like SpongeBob?
I don't know, Like, have you ever seen I don't
know anyway. Yeah, so there's some tension there with my
half siblings. They both have different moms too, so there's
three mothers in this sibling situation. So there's just like
me and my sister. She lives in Arkansas. We grew
(26:24):
up apart, Me and my younger brother. We grew up apart,
and then I kind of grew up apart from my
full siblings too because when I was cognizant of the world,
she was going to college, you know. So yeah, it's
just like wrong place, wrong time. Our parents weren't very capable. Yeah,
(26:47):
it's just like things like that. But we're working on it.
I'm very proud of us. Every single day is like
we make the conscious effort to like try to make
something shake.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
All you can do is make the effort absolutely And
how do they feel about you doing drag? Ah? I
think good.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I think good. I hope they would. Yeah, I mean
we don't really, they don't really get us, sirve I.
My sister Anna, she is so hands on in like
a part of it where it's just it's really really
nice my older sister Angie, she came around. It's really
nice to have her there too. I don't think they've
(27:21):
seen me in drag that like in person. I don't
think they've came. Maybe I made that up. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Is that something you kind of long for or do not? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Again, family like family for me is a completely different beast.
Like on Drag, Racey did a makeover episode with their
mom and dads like coming to like get put in
their drag by their kids. I don't think that could
ever happen for me. So it's like I just have
to like consider how other people might have different references
for how a family should look or what their family does.
(27:54):
So whenever the schedule is aligne, yeah, I would love
for them to come see me and Drag.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
You keep talking about how you have such a great
support system of friends, but how independent would you say
you are?
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Like very much, So it's a huge problem that keeps
coming out. I think there was no other way for
me to like make it through totally. Yes I did.
I mean, I'm a very specific person. I know what
I want, and I think one of the things I
like about myself. My therapist might say, hey, maybe we
should work on that, is that I know that I'm
able to give myself exactly what I need when I
(28:27):
need it.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
M h.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
So, yeah, I'm always trying to ask for help, and
I did ask for help a bunch for the drag pageant.
That's amazing, But like, yeah, I'm usually self sufficient.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
I want to talk a little bit about the word boysover. Okay, Yeah,
it's a lot about knowing yourself. You talked about escapism.
I had a problem with escapism, but I wouldn't say
in like the best way. I would say in the
chaotic way. So that's what made me sort of have
to like take a step back and realign. Have you
ever thought about doing the same thing, sort of going
(28:58):
boys sober or like what is your relationship to the
term itself?
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah? I think I kind of fell off the deep
end to during college when I first started exploring sexuality
and like dating and stuff, I had huge self esteem issues,
especially like with the whole hookup culture with like gay
men and stuff. I was like, Okay, maybe you know,
I am a little farther away from what these guys
got going on. I think I knew something had to
(29:24):
shake when I went on this date with a person.
They took me to some like fuck ass dive bar
or something, and then we went back to my place
and we hooked up whatever I remember they were. We
were shirtless or whatever, and they like looked at my
stretch marks and they're like, are you hurting yourself? I said, oh,
oh shit, Okay. That's the moment when I was like, no,
(29:48):
I gotta I really gotta lock in, because not only
as was this person dumb as shit, I had to
be on the receiving end of that. I was like, no,
these are just stretch marks. This is my body. Also,
I wasn't having a good time, so then I was
like why am I doing this? And I think that
kind of started the whole like decentering men specifically thing
(30:11):
and desentering like romance, where I was like, okay, I
had all of these presconceived notions from like fan fiction
and romance novels and like movies and stuff of like
this is how romance should be, and like even like
the raunchy stuff like getting taken back home after a bar,
like I always thought it was supposed to go like
a different way, And in that moment, I was like,
oh no, fuck this shit, Like I will never put
(30:33):
myself in this position again where I am offended by
some random person I never want to see again. So
I think after that, I was very specific with who
I wanted to like be around and like who got
to like touch and like see my body and stuff
like that. So when I hear like boysover, I'm like, Okay,
(30:54):
I know that I need to be very specific and
intentional about like who. It's a piece of phantom, I
you know what I mean. Yes, I'm dating my boyfriend
right now and it's been great because he's so respectful
of my body and very sensitive to like my experiences.
But literally, right before that, I was like in a
zone where I was like tired of dating and like
(31:16):
I kind of wanted to just be like alone and
like explore what it needs to be just like not
reliant on rapid hookups and stuff like that. So it
was nice when he came around and I was like, Okay,
I'm pretty excited about this.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeah, what does love feel like to you? Now? Like?
How do you define that? How do you how do
you think?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Love? To me feels like wanting to wake up, like
wanting to go about your day. It feels like warm
and fuzzies in your stomach, and like, I think I
expressed a lot of love through laughter, So yeah, I
would say love laughter connection in the sense of whether
(32:01):
it be sensuality or friendship, I don't know, having the
same goals, being reliable. I think that's what love looks
like and feels like to me.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
And where are you finding love the most right now?
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Honestly? And I'm really proud of myself, I would say
from myself right now, which has been a long joby,
I'm like, I don't know, Johnny Honey, sure, but yeah,
i feel like I love myself so much, and I'm
very excited to see what happens and where I take myself.
(32:35):
I'm very happy that I'm to a point where, no
matter what happens, no matter what Hay comm and I
get or what TikTok gets reposted on Twitter, I still
love myself at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
What would you say to someone who's, like maybe in
high school going through it, Like, I don't know, what
is your advice to someone who would maybe want to
follow in your shoes? I feel like there are probably
so many people that you do inspire.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
To think, you know, like that's just true.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
I guess I would say, like, if need be hunger down,
be safe, survive, like it does get better, just hold out,
rely on the people who are showing you that they're
there for you. I think that's exactly what Anna and
I would have needed.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Loving and caring for yourself is tricky business. I feel
like I've learned from Ann Andaya how to get one
step closer to it, and I hope you feel that
way too. Thanks for listening. Talk to y'all next week.
(33:42):
Boy Sover is a production of iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host,
Hope Ordered. Our executive producers are Christina Everett and Julie Pinero.
Our supervising producer is Emily Meronoff engineering by Bahid Fraser
and mixing and mastering by a Boo Zafar. If you
liked this episode, please tell a friend and don't forget
(34:03):
to rate, review, and subscribe to boy Sober on the
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