July 16, 2025 • 36 mins
How do you find yourself when you’ve been raised under a strict moral code? That’s what musician and comedian L.J. Granered had to figure out when they started exploring their sexuality after an upbringing in the Evangelical Church.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
How are we doing tonight? How's the field to be?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Here?
Speaker 1 (00:03):
The blue room with the voice over research show?
Speaker 3 (00:06):
Thank you a whole thanking everyone, who's This.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Is my friend LJ. Granard performing at one of the
first Boys Sober Live shows I hosted in Nashville last year.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Who's all gay?
Speaker 4 (00:16):
Here?
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, hold my hand, everybody, let's buckle in.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
We're gonna talk about the lord who's an ally?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
We love that.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Who's on the fence about the whole thing? I know
there's a couple of you in here.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
I do.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
It's okay, You're safe. I know because I'm from here.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
I'm from Nashville, Tennessee, and I too was on the
fence about the whole thing for.
Speaker 5 (00:43):
A long time.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
LJ and I have a lot in common. We're both
from Tennessee, both grew up in conservative religious communities, and
both really found ourselves when we moved away from it
all to New York City. But Lj's self actualization was
a bit different than mine.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
What you see before you is a homosexuals.
Speaker 5 (01:05):
Thank you very much, And.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I'm relatively confident in my.
Speaker 5 (01:09):
Category these days. My genre.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
I think I'm kind of cute, you know, I think
I'm kind of handsome and a little bit pretty. I
like who I am, but I wasn't always like this, right,
I'd like to take you all the way back to
right here in Nashville, Tennessee, in the early two thousands,
early twenty teens, and my genre, my category looks a
(01:35):
little different back then.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Right.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
I'm straight, I'm a Virgin, I'm a Republican shout out
show hell yeah, and I wasn't Evangelical Christian.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
This week, we're bringing you Lj's story of faith, love
and finding themselves. I'm hopeworded and welcome to Boysover, a
space where we're learning and unlearning. All the myths were
taught about love and relationships. I've talked a bit about
(02:13):
my religious upbringing on the show and the way it
affected my relationship to love and sex. Like LJ, I
was raised in the Evangelical church, and like LJ, I
didn't completely hate my experience.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Looking back, it was beautiful and kind of dark and
cartoonish at times, but beautiful.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Right.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I knew those people my whole life. I used to
walk into that church and feel so comfortable. I'd take
my shoes off after school, and that's sanctuary. The homework
in the pews.
Speaker 5 (02:45):
I was welcome, I was known.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
In some ways, the church was enlightening, but in others
it was harmful and confusing, especially so for LJ, who,
after moving to New York for college, realized they were
get and then eventually trans. I always knew I wanted
to talk to LJ. Moore about this experience, how they
untangled what they learned about love growing up to how
(03:11):
they love now, and if they're able to still have
a relationship with faith.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
I was scared. I was like, no, no, no, no, no,
no no. I'm gonna lose everything. That's what they told me.
I'm gonna lose my faith, my community, my identity, my category.
So I'm thinking with First John.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Four seven through eight running through my head right, anyone
who loves is of God and knows God.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
Anyone who does not love does not know God, because.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
God is love. LJ.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
What's up?
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Hey, Hoe, how are you?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I'm really good, Thanks for being here. Let's let's get
into it.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Absolutely, I'm locked in.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Okay, great. Tell me about the community you grew up in.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
I grew up in a really small evangelical community in Nashville.
It was like this small school like sixty kids per
grade K through twelve, right, and it was like a
church attached to a school. It was really sweet and
small and intimate. But it's also quite isolated, I think
from the rest of the world in that way. Like
(04:33):
it was lovely that my English teacher was also my
friend's mom. Hm.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
So interconnected, right, yeah, very connected, a bit sheltered, Yeah,
extremely religious.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Yes, it's the vibe very exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Did you enjoy religion growing up?
Speaker 4 (04:50):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, tell me about it.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
You know, as a queer person, as a trans person,
like I was just thought I was, you know, just
like every other normal kid. Yeah, straight, cis gendered, eterosexual, whatever,
and God loving and God loving, and I really did.
I very much believed in God, very much liked religion,
(05:13):
liked church, liked youth group. I like went and was
gung home about it.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I was. I mean, listen, the church camps are fun.
They're fun, like the canoe trips with the youth group. Listen,
it's a good time.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
The time. All I want to do is like stand
in the circle and like sing a song with my friend.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
No, totally, people love that. But what did you like specifically?
What's your favorite thing about that world Christianity.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
I think that something I'm really grateful growing up with
is the repetition of it, the ritual of it, the community,
and the intimacy of like going to the same place
with these people, right and asking questions that are bigger
than you know, what do you do for work?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
And what do you like?
Speaker 4 (06:01):
I think that that is something that really sets apart
growing up in a spiritual tradition, any kind of religion,
is that you're asking these really huge questions from quite
a young age, for better or worse. You know, I
think a lot of times quite scary to think that
your small actions have existential consequences to help. Yeah, it's
(06:24):
extremely tenuous, and it's a lot of pressure on a kid.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, so much pressure, but.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Also like kind of kind of amazing. Also, I think
holding the space for both of those things to be
true is something that you and I really can Oh, yeah,
we do.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
We do love to hold two truths that are sometimes
conflicted in those moments. Did you feel like you belonged?
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Uh? Yeah, I did, one thousand percent. I didn't question
it at all. Is the thing. I think that I
felt like I belong there. I felt like that was
my world and my community and my truth. And that
is why it is so devastating to come out and
(07:11):
have that same community flip and not everyone. I'm gonna
go ahead and say it's not everyone all the time,
but even my own understanding of what I was being
told in my own life flips, right, My perception of
what I was taught flipped totally. And there's a lot
of grief in that too, being like, oh wow, you know,
(07:34):
I feel like it's like a betrayal. I feel like
I was lied to or manipulated and once again not always,
or it was misused.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Or totally What were the conversations about love? Like, like,
what did they teach you about love? Specifically in the
church you grew up in?
Speaker 4 (07:54):
There is the idea of love as in the like
the Christian tradition of love as like you know, sacrifice
or unconditional love or an extraordinary mercy. Is that real
sort of christ Like? That's christ Like, right, extraordinary unconditional love.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
And mercy, forgiveness, grace, accept matter.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Why you get in here? Yeah come here? Yeah you
know that and that was really taught.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
So imagine my.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Surprise, me confused, confused.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
He listens like.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Everyone extraordinary except you brother, totally, except a few certain
groups that we actually don't we are not.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
In exact most of the groups, most.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
People outside of our little circle. Yeah, an interesting thing.
It's it's contradicting. When did you start questioning it?
Speaker 4 (09:02):
It was a slow unraveling. I think that I started
questioning it when my dad got sober. My dad started
getting sober when he was when I was a junior
in high school, and that was like something that was
very secret within the church.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
We love secrets. Those communities love a secret. My dad
also got added for a few things, right, no, exactly.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
Yeah, And so then that's when my definition of what
it meant to actually put into practice unconditional love that
makes you uncomfortable, started to open up. And then when
I went to college, I was like eighteen years old
and moved to New York, Yeah, and had just never
(09:53):
come upon anyone who was different ever.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Right, right, and oh my gosh, talk about jumping into
the deep end.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Yes, yeah, so I had like it when I started that.
My dad's aarred that sobriety journey is when things started
to unravel because you cannot you have to start telling
the truth if you want to actually get sober, and
so then then you start to pick apart all of
these things that are going on in secret in the church.
And then I moved to New York and I was like, wow,
(10:20):
I seemed to be missing some details.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, yeah, there's a whole other world out here.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
It was me, I remember so clearly my freshman year
of college going to the Museum of Natural History for
the first time and walking in the door and I
was with a bunch of new friends and they kind
of like flew past this giant exhibit of the timeline
(10:45):
of evolution.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, they were like, that's it's that you guys should
have learned about in the fourth grade.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
And I stood there with my mouth a gape. Yeah,
everyone has gone by, And I was like, I think
kind missing some some big information yere totally.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
That's when I was like, uh oh right, Yeah, are
there certain people that sort of like pulled you in
or like helped this transition? Like what else sort of
helped you realize?
Speaker 4 (11:15):
I mean it's like, you can't you can't be in
New York City and not come across every type of
person totally. So I think a lot of it was
just taking a beat and listening to hearing perspectives that
I had never encountered before. I know, I had one
teacher specifically in acting school, we read like The Hero
(11:36):
with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Right, that's like every Southerner's awakening something. Yeah, because you've freaked.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
Out because I had like gone so deep I read
the Bible cover to cover before, which people are shocked by.
I was also in apologetics class, which I like to
call Defense against the Dark Arts, right, where you like
learn the defense of the Christian faith.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Is there like a specific quote or moment or piece
of that book where you were just like, oh shit.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
It's the comprehensiveness where they break down the story of
Christ and show it over and over and over and
over and over again in many cultures throughout all of history. Right,
it's not one moment. It's that it's sort of relentless.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
I think is the book's relentless in what way?
Speaker 4 (12:32):
It's a relentless account of that The story of Christ
is incredibly true in that it's extremely human to go
through that arc of death and rebirth and sacrifice and
redemption and coming back to each other. But it is
(12:54):
so true that it occurs over and over and over
and over again, and not just in this one book
or one account that we've edited six thousand times, you know,
and that really was extraordinarily novel to me.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
We had the truth, right, We had this beautiful, important thing.
We thought we had the truth, and it was supposed
to share the love of Jesus Christ with the world, right.
And there was a bit of a self righteous sense
of urgency because the rest of the world was thought
of as lost in agony, in agony, and we had.
Speaker 5 (13:48):
To go save them.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
So you can imagine how people reacted when I said
I'm going to go to New York City for college.
Mom and dad, they all sat me down and they said, Lydia.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
Lydia is my name. It's you can use it. It's
not dead, it's just resting, they said, Lydia.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
When you get to New York City, you're going to
be tested.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
People are going to try and lie it to you.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
They're going to manipulate you, they're going to try to
pull you away from your truth.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
They're going to try to tell you things like Jesus
didn't die.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
For your sins, like the world was made in more
than seven days, and even worse, they might try to
lure you into a homosexual lifestyle against your will. And
I'm standing there not in my head, like totally that
sounds bad.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
I want to talk about how your romantic life changed
from Nashville to New York, Like, did you get to
New York and fall in love?
Speaker 4 (14:53):
I sure did. I felt so hard in love, but
I really wasn't able to I wasn't able to accept
my own sexuality until I loosened my grip on my
faith a little bit. And I remember, Yeah, I met
this girl and we were friends at first, and the
(15:16):
way we fell in love was I was directing a
monologue she was performing in and the monologue was her
saying confessing she had a crush on someone. So every
time we had rehearsal, it would be just the two
of us in a room, and she'd be like saying
to me, like, I think I have a crush on you.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I thought that was like so sort of romantic. It
was a terrifying I was so you felt terrified, Okay,
speak to that.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Yeah, oh my god, I was terrified. So I'd never
been in love before. And just because you know I
came out after that doesn't mean it. I didn't still
think that like my eternal my eternal life was at
stake kind of on the DL right, m hmm, yeah.
I was still really scary to admit that I was queer, right,
(16:03):
terrifying what was coming out? Like, I came out after
I was in that relationship, So it wasn't until I
was like in love with someone and I was like,
I care more about this person than keeping this secret.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Oh that makes me so emotional. It's interesting though, that
you didn't come out with them.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
I mean, we kind of did, but she was from
New York. She was like, not a big a deal,
that's so real. I was literally I remember it was
just the stakes were so high for me. And she
was like I'm probably kind of gay, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
And You're like, you're not scared of the afterway.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Literally she was like, no.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
Italian and Jewish?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Did your family know? Is that when it all came
out for your family? It's like did people from the
South were they surprised? Did they say we know?
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Like?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
What was the response?
Speaker 4 (17:00):
My dad was surprisingly cool about it. He was like
what and then he was like okay, but he's done
way worse stuff, so he was kind of like thank God,
someone's finally on my level, but not on his level.
Not wrong, but my I mean my mom was God,
she was soset no cried. That's a pretty standard story,
(17:24):
but she has It's.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Not standard, well for a lot of quis for a
lot of people, but I think specifically for people in
the South whose parents are also thinking about the afterlife.
And that's something you talked about on the voiceover show
at the storytelling show.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
I think, I don't know the exact wording, but I like,
you love me so much, you want me to live forever,
but you're losing sight of of loving me here now.
And there's nothing righteous about the pursuit of heaven if
it means turning your back on the people you love
here on earth. Wanting to love me so bad but
(18:01):
really losing sight of being able to do that here.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Do you want to speak to what your relationship is
like with your mom now?
Speaker 4 (18:10):
I mean, it's it's hard. I don't really have a
relationship with my mom. I have been pretty estranged from
my both my parents for about three years now, which
is really painful. My mom and I are trying to
(18:31):
connect via email, but I really I really cut off
all contact. Once I knew that I was trans, that
once I knew I wanted top surgery, once I knew
it was about gender, I like the being queer was
hard enough. You know, when when your joy causes someone
else pain, it is so difficult to just like hold that,
(18:55):
and that queerness was one thing, but with gender it
really infuriates people. And I knew that that's that's sort
of the that was what I was going to be
getting into with her, And I was like, I can't
be in relationship with my mom right now and not
(19:16):
completely abandon myself in the process. Of course, So it's
been it's been hard. It's been hard.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Your dad, when you came out as trans, that crossed
a line for him too. He was less.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
My dad doesn't know. I don't talk to him for
different reasons.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Whereas your mom's love feels like.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
She wants to be so bad, she wants to she
wants to be so bad.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
She's like hitting me over the head.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
With homophobic, transphobic rhetoric being because she so desperately loves
me and is trying to like save me from eternal dymnation. Yeah,
I know, and I'm like totally I see what you're
doing there?
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Yes, yes, yes, and you're like, this is all in
good faith.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
There's only so many times I can I can beg
you please, don't it right? And so we're we just
email and I ignore it and copy and paste to
us the same response over and over to her when
she starts going down that rabbit hole. Yeah, that is
just the reality of what it means to come from
(20:27):
that world.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Can you take me back a little and speak to
like when it is you knew you were trans.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
In the pandemic? I remember I was. It just keeps
coming up, right, it just kept bubbling up to the surface.
But I thought the thought, you know, am I am
I trans? Can this be a part of my identity?
Can it looks similar to some people that identify with
and different? You know, I'm not a I don't identify
(20:55):
as like a binary trans guy like I just somewhere
in the in between. And when you feel that way,
you know, when there's something gray about it, I think
it's harder to claim it. But it just kept coming up,
the question, and every time I would see sort of
a non binary person or transmass person expressed themselves and
(21:18):
I'd be like, you know, you could feel it in
your body, like I could feel in my body that
I was like that, I like that, I want that right,
And so I secretly bought a binder, which is like
a basically like a supreme sports braw and it flattened
your chest and it gives you the visible appearance of
(21:39):
a flat chest and makes your clothes fit differently and
just kind of like I felt my body really like
like that, I felt more freedom in my movement and
I felt like I could wear clothes that I wanted
to wear, and I felt better immediately. I think a
lot of insecurity and anxiety I attributed to any other
(21:59):
kind of trauma my life over the years. Once I
put that on, I felt an alleviation of so much
anxiety that I was like, oh, oh this is me.
Oh that is real.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yeah, where do you find community now? And what was
it like to leave that community behind?
Speaker 4 (22:19):
I'm really grateful for the people who are in my
life from that world. It means so much more because
it's such a farther leap to grow with someone and proof.
I think, especially now and like an extremely polarized time,
I'm like I have living proof of these relationships that
(22:43):
we've gone from pretty radical evangelical Christianity and conservatism in
the South to being able to open up to a
larger context of acceptance understanding curiosity. It is possible so
that community still does belong to me, even if I
(23:05):
don't feel like I can always be my whole self there,
or even if I'm still unraveling it, even if there's
still things that we are working through, I still do
belong there. And there are people who know that, and
the people who know that. It's like such an accountability
(23:26):
accountability maybe accountability is the wrong word. No, I'm proof.
I'm proof of something that I speak the language of
this world, and I am someone you loved or currently
love from that world. And I think the people who go,
(23:50):
oh wait, yeah, I know I do love you.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
I know you.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
I must figure out a way to reconcile my belief
and my worldview and change the way I think right
to fit that, and some people do not everyone does,
including my mother.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
It's a weight to carry. Yeah. So you being there
and you being like the lovable and brilliant person that
you are and being able to speak that language, it
challenges that you challenge people in such an inviting way.
And I know that's not easy, but it is so
like powerful.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
And I like doing it. Yeah, we do like doing
that to Scorpio here, who kind of like doing it
because I love.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
We love being like, this is not who you are.
You have a good heart and you have bad politics.
And I was you.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
Yeah, yeah, I was you.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
I was and kind of am.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
What is this out to do with love?
Speaker 5 (25:05):
Right?
Speaker 1 (25:07):
I'm almost thirty and I still.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Know in my bones that I don't think I would
have left the church, the religion if I hadn't fallen
in love with a woman and felt what the difference
is between conditional and unconditional.
Speaker 5 (25:25):
Love, What that feels like in my body when it's tested.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
I was scared because coming out felt like I was
standing blindfolded and gagged in front of a doorway of
an airplane a thousand feet in the air, and someone
was telling.
Speaker 5 (25:42):
Me to jump. But, as is the case with any
strongly held belief, there will come a point when you
have to decide between a staying aligned with the value
it represents and breaking the rule that you invented to uphold.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
It.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Was there a moment where you stepped away from God
in religion completely?
Speaker 4 (26:07):
This question makes me nervous.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
This question still makes what are you scared of? I'm
thinking about the time.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
You know, when I did step away from God. I
literally was writing in a journal, like sweat dripping down
my face, like I do not believe in God. I
do not believe in God. I do not believe in God.
Because I was so scared of the words I do
not believe in God. I was like, He's gonna smite me,
(26:36):
you know, I was terrified, but I knew it was
like it is crazy that I am scared of thought,
scared to have a doubt, scared to say the words,
scared of you know, because if God is all powerful,
all loving, whatever, He's not afraid of my words, of
(26:58):
my thoughts, of my doubt. So in a way, it
was my faith that like allowed me to go there.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, like.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
God's not scared of our little fears or doubts or whatever.
And I so there was a time where I really
had to like move into that. And I think for
like a year or two or something, I tried not
to think about it. But it's a hard thing not
to It's you know, it's hard, it's a habit in
(27:29):
some ways. You know, it was hard to like ever,
actually let go.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
What's a habit exactly?
Speaker 4 (27:36):
Prayer? I mean it's like if you talk to God
every day for twenty five years, it just like you
can just like turn that off.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
You missed it.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
Yeah, I was like, it's like if you I literally
you know, have a conversation, a running conversation going with
the idea of God. So to step away from an
internal dialogue, right is pretty impossible.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
You know it sounds lonely, Yeah, lonely.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
It's like I didn't want to really, you know. There's
like my own relationship to prayer and faith is personal
and it doesn't feel related to like that's not the religion,
that's not the church. That's mine, Like it's my own experience.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
How do you talk to God?
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Now?
Speaker 4 (28:32):
Their relationship is pretty casual. I feel like it's like
God and I we've been through a lot right now,
I'm like, yeah, now when I talk to God is
just like hey, yeah, totally, Hey, could you chill out
(28:53):
for Yeah? I think I know how my relationship to
God to prayer is more like just checking in. I
still do like kind of close my eyes and bow
my head and go like hey, like thank you, you know,
I do a lot of the same stuff that I
always have, and my relationship to faith has changed a lot,
(29:17):
but that relationship to prayer, I still feel like I'm
talking to the same thing.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
That is something I feel like I don't do enough,
which is pray. So hearing you say you pray still
it's inspiring to me because I think it's something we feel.
I don't know, there's resistance, it's loaded. There's resistance to me. Yeah,
you know, and yeah, it's just a complicated thing. How
do you think prayer helps you understand yourself?
Speaker 4 (29:46):
I think it's a form of meditation. I think anytime
you slow down and like let your inner voice show
up and you know whatever, if you're calling it your
inner voice or you're calling it God, or you're calling
it consciousness or the ocean, anytime you sit down and
slow down and really look at it, I think you
(30:10):
get to know yourself more.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
I'm so scared of it. I'm so scary scared of it. Yeah,
because it is so vulnerable, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
Well, it's interesting that you say that because it's just
you're alone.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Maybe it's also a piece of like when you pray,
you're admitting something is out of your hands, you know
what I mean? There feels like this, this feeling of
like I can't do anything about this, I have to
just give it to something and hope that that's something.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
Has got you is a benevolent sort of presence. It
feels vulnerable to yeah, to admit or a feeling that
you maybe aren't don't want to have, or thought you
don't want to have, or yeah, and trust it's just
gonna pass through.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
What's your advice for people trying to figure out their
own identity and how do you unravel what you actually
want and believe versus what you were conditioned to want
and believe.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
That's a hard one.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
That's a tough one.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
It's a good one though.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Right now.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
I think.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
One major thing is I think listening to your body,
listening to the body you're the signals your body is
trying to give you, you know, which requires slowing down,
which requires like sort of like taking a breath. Also
finding people who are not judgmental and who are like
just open to being curious with you. I don't think
(31:38):
I could have figured it all out because this is
messy period. This is a period where you chat, you
gotta be able to change your mind. You got to
be able to like try something on and then be
like that wasn't it. And being able to like be
honest and vulnerable with people who are affirming of the process,
who are not going to like criticize you or try
to put you into some sort of category before you're
(32:01):
ready to. And the difference between conditioning it's really hard.
You gotta have a lot of grace for yourself, I think,
because that's for me at least in inner voices. It's
loud and there's a grieving process.
Speaker 5 (32:16):
But so being able to like take a moment.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
To be with that, yeah, right, be with the grief,
be with the ge the complexity.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
Yeah, and then be excited about like finding out what
is real. Like there's so it's holding on to that
idea of like, oh wait, there's a version of me
out there that is not scared or insecure as you know,
in the same way that's like embodied can really be
present with people and feel cute and whatever. It's not
(32:47):
it's all not so scary. It's quite exciting, right. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Yeah, I guess I'm hearing you and thinking of like
just really feeling.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Through your fears. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
One day at a time, like working through them thinking
you know what I mean, and getting to the other
side of them. Yeah, I'm gonna start praying again.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
I'm like, I love you.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
I love you too.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Coming out felt like I was standing blindfolded and gagged
in front of a doorway of an airplane a thousand
feet in the air, and someone was telling me to jump.
So I jump, and it turns out the plane is
on the fucking ground the whole time.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Guys, it is fine out here.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
It's fine. It's I'm not lost. I'm not I'm not
lost at all. I'm like, you know, it's fucking lovely
being gay. I'm not in agony. I'm collageing watching Ru
Paul with my friends. Really, it wasn't easy, because you know,
I still have that feeling, especially.
Speaker 5 (33:55):
Being here back home, I have that feeling oh no,
no no.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
But when I get that feeling, that fear, that confusion,
I wonder if my love is real, if my love
is worthy, if my love and my God will ever
really see each other.
Speaker 5 (34:11):
What I remember is that verse that God is love,
and I also remember that if the love is real
and the plane is already on the ground.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Thank you, thank you so much to LJ for telling
their story both on stage and in the studio with me.
Speaker 5 (34:44):
Will you finally disappear.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
It raised yourself from all those please.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
LJ is also an insanely talented singer and songwriter. This
is their beautiful song playing right now. You can listen
to the our music on Spotify just search l J
Grannard that's l J g r A n e r
e D. You can also follow them on Instagram and
TikTok at l J Granard to see what they're up to.
(35:14):
Thanks everyone for listening. Talk to y'all next week.
Speaker 5 (35:16):
Hell it's carton reaching home.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Boy Sover is a production of iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host,
Hope Ordered. Our executive producers are Christina Everett and Julie Pinero.
Our supervising producer is Emily Meronoff engineering by Bahid Fraser
and mixing and mastering by Aboo Zafar. If you liked
this episode, please tell a friend and don't forget to rate, review,
(35:51):
and subscribe to Boy Sober on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
and wherever you get your favorite shows.
How are we doing tonight? How's the field to be?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Here?
Speaker 1 (00:03):
The blue room with the voice over research show?
Speaker 3 (00:06):
Thank you a whole thanking everyone, who's This.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Is my friend LJ. Granard performing at one of the
first Boys Sober Live shows I hosted in Nashville last year.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Who's all gay?
Speaker 4 (00:16):
Here?
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, hold my hand, everybody, let's buckle in.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
We're gonna talk about the lord who's an ally?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
We love that.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Who's on the fence about the whole thing? I know
there's a couple of you in here.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
I do.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
It's okay, You're safe. I know because I'm from here.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
I'm from Nashville, Tennessee, and I too was on the
fence about the whole thing for.
Speaker 5 (00:43):
A long time.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
LJ and I have a lot in common. We're both
from Tennessee, both grew up in conservative religious communities, and
both really found ourselves when we moved away from it
all to New York City. But Lj's self actualization was
a bit different than mine.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
What you see before you is a homosexuals.
Speaker 5 (01:05):
Thank you very much, And.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I'm relatively confident in my.
Speaker 5 (01:09):
Category these days. My genre.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
I think I'm kind of cute, you know, I think
I'm kind of handsome and a little bit pretty. I
like who I am, but I wasn't always like this, right,
I'd like to take you all the way back to
right here in Nashville, Tennessee, in the early two thousands,
early twenty teens, and my genre, my category looks a
(01:35):
little different back then.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Right.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
I'm straight, I'm a Virgin, I'm a Republican shout out
show hell yeah, and I wasn't Evangelical Christian.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
This week, we're bringing you Lj's story of faith, love
and finding themselves. I'm hopeworded and welcome to Boysover, a
space where we're learning and unlearning. All the myths were
taught about love and relationships. I've talked a bit about
(02:13):
my religious upbringing on the show and the way it
affected my relationship to love and sex. Like LJ, I
was raised in the Evangelical church, and like LJ, I
didn't completely hate my experience.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Looking back, it was beautiful and kind of dark and
cartoonish at times, but beautiful.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Right.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I knew those people my whole life. I used to
walk into that church and feel so comfortable. I'd take
my shoes off after school, and that's sanctuary. The homework
in the pews.
Speaker 5 (02:45):
I was welcome, I was known.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
In some ways, the church was enlightening, but in others
it was harmful and confusing, especially so for LJ, who,
after moving to New York for college, realized they were
get and then eventually trans. I always knew I wanted
to talk to LJ. Moore about this experience, how they
untangled what they learned about love growing up to how
(03:11):
they love now, and if they're able to still have
a relationship with faith.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
I was scared. I was like, no, no, no, no, no,
no no. I'm gonna lose everything. That's what they told me.
I'm gonna lose my faith, my community, my identity, my category.
So I'm thinking with First John.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Four seven through eight running through my head right, anyone
who loves is of God and knows God.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
Anyone who does not love does not know God, because.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
God is love. LJ.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
What's up?
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Hey, Hoe, how are you?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I'm really good, Thanks for being here. Let's let's get
into it.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Absolutely, I'm locked in.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Okay, great. Tell me about the community you grew up in.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
I grew up in a really small evangelical community in Nashville.
It was like this small school like sixty kids per
grade K through twelve, right, and it was like a
church attached to a school. It was really sweet and
small and intimate. But it's also quite isolated, I think
from the rest of the world in that way. Like
(04:33):
it was lovely that my English teacher was also my
friend's mom. Hm.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
So interconnected, right, yeah, very connected, a bit sheltered, Yeah,
extremely religious.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Yes, it's the vibe very exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Did you enjoy religion growing up?
Speaker 4 (04:50):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, tell me about it.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
You know, as a queer person, as a trans person,
like I was just thought I was, you know, just
like every other normal kid. Yeah, straight, cis gendered, eterosexual, whatever,
and God loving and God loving, and I really did.
I very much believed in God, very much liked religion,
(05:13):
liked church, liked youth group. I like went and was
gung home about it.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I was. I mean, listen, the church camps are fun.
They're fun, like the canoe trips with the youth group. Listen,
it's a good time.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
The time. All I want to do is like stand
in the circle and like sing a song with my friend.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
No, totally, people love that. But what did you like specifically?
What's your favorite thing about that world Christianity.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
I think that something I'm really grateful growing up with
is the repetition of it, the ritual of it, the community,
and the intimacy of like going to the same place
with these people, right and asking questions that are bigger
than you know, what do you do for work?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
And what do you like?
Speaker 4 (06:01):
I think that that is something that really sets apart
growing up in a spiritual tradition, any kind of religion,
is that you're asking these really huge questions from quite
a young age, for better or worse. You know, I
think a lot of times quite scary to think that
your small actions have existential consequences to help. Yeah, it's
(06:24):
extremely tenuous, and it's a lot of pressure on a kid.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, so much pressure, but.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Also like kind of kind of amazing. Also, I think
holding the space for both of those things to be
true is something that you and I really can Oh, yeah,
we do.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
We do love to hold two truths that are sometimes
conflicted in those moments. Did you feel like you belonged?
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Uh? Yeah, I did, one thousand percent. I didn't question
it at all. Is the thing. I think that I
felt like I belong there. I felt like that was
my world and my community and my truth. And that
is why it is so devastating to come out and
(07:11):
have that same community flip and not everyone. I'm gonna
go ahead and say it's not everyone all the time,
but even my own understanding of what I was being
told in my own life flips, right, My perception of
what I was taught flipped totally. And there's a lot
of grief in that too, being like, oh wow, you know,
(07:34):
I feel like it's like a betrayal. I feel like
I was lied to or manipulated and once again not always,
or it was misused.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Or totally What were the conversations about love? Like, like,
what did they teach you about love? Specifically in the
church you grew up in?
Speaker 4 (07:54):
There is the idea of love as in the like
the Christian tradition of love as like you know, sacrifice
or unconditional love or an extraordinary mercy. Is that real
sort of christ Like? That's christ Like, right, extraordinary unconditional love.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
And mercy, forgiveness, grace, accept matter.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Why you get in here? Yeah come here? Yeah you
know that and that was really taught.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
So imagine my.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Surprise, me confused, confused.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
He listens like.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Everyone extraordinary except you brother, totally, except a few certain
groups that we actually don't we are not.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
In exact most of the groups, most.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
People outside of our little circle. Yeah, an interesting thing.
It's it's contradicting. When did you start questioning it?
Speaker 4 (09:02):
It was a slow unraveling. I think that I started
questioning it when my dad got sober. My dad started
getting sober when he was when I was a junior
in high school, and that was like something that was
very secret within the church.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
We love secrets. Those communities love a secret. My dad
also got added for a few things, right, no, exactly.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
Yeah, And so then that's when my definition of what
it meant to actually put into practice unconditional love that
makes you uncomfortable, started to open up. And then when
I went to college, I was like eighteen years old
and moved to New York, Yeah, and had just never
(09:53):
come upon anyone who was different ever.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Right, right, and oh my gosh, talk about jumping into
the deep end.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Yes, yeah, so I had like it when I started that.
My dad's aarred that sobriety journey is when things started
to unravel because you cannot you have to start telling
the truth if you want to actually get sober, and
so then then you start to pick apart all of
these things that are going on in secret in the church.
And then I moved to New York and I was like, wow,
(10:20):
I seemed to be missing some details.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, yeah, there's a whole other world out here.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
It was me, I remember so clearly my freshman year
of college going to the Museum of Natural History for
the first time and walking in the door and I
was with a bunch of new friends and they kind
of like flew past this giant exhibit of the timeline
(10:45):
of evolution.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, they were like, that's it's that you guys should
have learned about in the fourth grade.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
And I stood there with my mouth a gape. Yeah,
everyone has gone by, And I was like, I think
kind missing some some big information yere totally.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
That's when I was like, uh oh right, Yeah, are
there certain people that sort of like pulled you in
or like helped this transition? Like what else sort of
helped you realize?
Speaker 4 (11:15):
I mean it's like, you can't you can't be in
New York City and not come across every type of
person totally. So I think a lot of it was
just taking a beat and listening to hearing perspectives that
I had never encountered before. I know, I had one
teacher specifically in acting school, we read like The Hero
(11:36):
with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Right, that's like every Southerner's awakening something. Yeah, because you've freaked.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
Out because I had like gone so deep I read
the Bible cover to cover before, which people are shocked by.
I was also in apologetics class, which I like to
call Defense against the Dark Arts, right, where you like
learn the defense of the Christian faith.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Is there like a specific quote or moment or piece
of that book where you were just like, oh shit.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
It's the comprehensiveness where they break down the story of
Christ and show it over and over and over and
over and over again in many cultures throughout all of history. Right,
it's not one moment. It's that it's sort of relentless.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
I think is the book's relentless in what way?
Speaker 4 (12:32):
It's a relentless account of that The story of Christ
is incredibly true in that it's extremely human to go
through that arc of death and rebirth and sacrifice and
redemption and coming back to each other. But it is
(12:54):
so true that it occurs over and over and over
and over again, and not just in this one book
or one account that we've edited six thousand times, you know,
and that really was extraordinarily novel to me.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
We had the truth, right, We had this beautiful, important thing.
We thought we had the truth, and it was supposed
to share the love of Jesus Christ with the world, right.
And there was a bit of a self righteous sense
of urgency because the rest of the world was thought
of as lost in agony, in agony, and we had.
Speaker 5 (13:48):
To go save them.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
So you can imagine how people reacted when I said
I'm going to go to New York City for college.
Mom and dad, they all sat me down and they said, Lydia.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
Lydia is my name. It's you can use it. It's
not dead, it's just resting, they said, Lydia.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
When you get to New York City, you're going to
be tested.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
People are going to try and lie it to you.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
They're going to manipulate you, they're going to try to
pull you away from your truth.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
They're going to try to tell you things like Jesus
didn't die.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
For your sins, like the world was made in more
than seven days, and even worse, they might try to
lure you into a homosexual lifestyle against your will. And
I'm standing there not in my head, like totally that
sounds bad.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
I want to talk about how your romantic life changed
from Nashville to New York, Like, did you get to
New York and fall in love?
Speaker 4 (14:53):
I sure did. I felt so hard in love, but
I really wasn't able to I wasn't able to accept
my own sexuality until I loosened my grip on my
faith a little bit. And I remember, Yeah, I met
this girl and we were friends at first, and the
(15:16):
way we fell in love was I was directing a
monologue she was performing in and the monologue was her
saying confessing she had a crush on someone. So every
time we had rehearsal, it would be just the two
of us in a room, and she'd be like saying
to me, like, I think I have a crush on you.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I thought that was like so sort of romantic. It
was a terrifying I was so you felt terrified, Okay,
speak to that.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Yeah, oh my god, I was terrified. So I'd never
been in love before. And just because you know I
came out after that doesn't mean it. I didn't still
think that like my eternal my eternal life was at
stake kind of on the DL right, m hmm, yeah.
I was still really scary to admit that I was queer, right,
(16:03):
terrifying what was coming out? Like, I came out after
I was in that relationship, So it wasn't until I
was like in love with someone and I was like,
I care more about this person than keeping this secret.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Oh that makes me so emotional. It's interesting though, that
you didn't come out with them.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
I mean, we kind of did, but she was from
New York. She was like, not a big a deal,
that's so real. I was literally I remember it was
just the stakes were so high for me. And she
was like I'm probably kind of gay, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
And You're like, you're not scared of the afterway.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Literally she was like, no.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
Italian and Jewish?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Did your family know? Is that when it all came
out for your family? It's like did people from the
South were they surprised? Did they say we know?
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Like?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
What was the response?
Speaker 4 (17:00):
My dad was surprisingly cool about it. He was like
what and then he was like okay, but he's done
way worse stuff, so he was kind of like thank God,
someone's finally on my level, but not on his level.
Not wrong, but my I mean my mom was God,
she was soset no cried. That's a pretty standard story,
(17:24):
but she has It's.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Not standard, well for a lot of quis for a
lot of people, but I think specifically for people in
the South whose parents are also thinking about the afterlife.
And that's something you talked about on the voiceover show
at the storytelling show.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
I think, I don't know the exact wording, but I like,
you love me so much, you want me to live forever,
but you're losing sight of of loving me here now.
And there's nothing righteous about the pursuit of heaven if
it means turning your back on the people you love
here on earth. Wanting to love me so bad but
(18:01):
really losing sight of being able to do that here.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Do you want to speak to what your relationship is
like with your mom now?
Speaker 4 (18:10):
I mean, it's it's hard. I don't really have a
relationship with my mom. I have been pretty estranged from
my both my parents for about three years now, which
is really painful. My mom and I are trying to
(18:31):
connect via email, but I really I really cut off
all contact. Once I knew that I was trans, that
once I knew I wanted top surgery, once I knew
it was about gender, I like the being queer was
hard enough. You know, when when your joy causes someone
else pain, it is so difficult to just like hold that,
(18:55):
and that queerness was one thing, but with gender it
really infuriates people. And I knew that that's that's sort
of the that was what I was going to be
getting into with her, And I was like, I can't
be in relationship with my mom right now and not
(19:16):
completely abandon myself in the process. Of course, So it's
been it's been hard. It's been hard.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Your dad, when you came out as trans, that crossed
a line for him too. He was less.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
My dad doesn't know. I don't talk to him for
different reasons.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Whereas your mom's love feels like.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
She wants to be so bad, she wants to she
wants to be so bad.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
She's like hitting me over the head.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
With homophobic, transphobic rhetoric being because she so desperately loves
me and is trying to like save me from eternal dymnation. Yeah,
I know, and I'm like totally I see what you're
doing there?
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Yes, yes, yes, and you're like, this is all in
good faith.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
There's only so many times I can I can beg
you please, don't it right? And so we're we just
email and I ignore it and copy and paste to
us the same response over and over to her when
she starts going down that rabbit hole. Yeah, that is
just the reality of what it means to come from
(20:27):
that world.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Can you take me back a little and speak to
like when it is you knew you were trans.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
In the pandemic? I remember I was. It just keeps
coming up, right, it just kept bubbling up to the surface.
But I thought the thought, you know, am I am
I trans? Can this be a part of my identity?
Can it looks similar to some people that identify with
and different? You know, I'm not a I don't identify
(20:55):
as like a binary trans guy like I just somewhere
in the in between. And when you feel that way,
you know, when there's something gray about it, I think
it's harder to claim it. But it just kept coming up,
the question, and every time I would see sort of
a non binary person or transmass person expressed themselves and
(21:18):
I'd be like, you know, you could feel it in
your body, like I could feel in my body that
I was like that, I like that, I want that right,
And so I secretly bought a binder, which is like
a basically like a supreme sports braw and it flattened
your chest and it gives you the visible appearance of
(21:39):
a flat chest and makes your clothes fit differently and
just kind of like I felt my body really like
like that, I felt more freedom in my movement and
I felt like I could wear clothes that I wanted
to wear, and I felt better immediately. I think a
lot of insecurity and anxiety I attributed to any other
(21:59):
kind of trauma my life over the years. Once I
put that on, I felt an alleviation of so much
anxiety that I was like, oh, oh this is me.
Oh that is real.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yeah, where do you find community now? And what was
it like to leave that community behind?
Speaker 4 (22:19):
I'm really grateful for the people who are in my
life from that world. It means so much more because
it's such a farther leap to grow with someone and proof.
I think, especially now and like an extremely polarized time,
I'm like I have living proof of these relationships that
(22:43):
we've gone from pretty radical evangelical Christianity and conservatism in
the South to being able to open up to a
larger context of acceptance understanding curiosity. It is possible so
that community still does belong to me, even if I
(23:05):
don't feel like I can always be my whole self there,
or even if I'm still unraveling it, even if there's
still things that we are working through, I still do
belong there. And there are people who know that, and
the people who know that. It's like such an accountability
(23:26):
accountability maybe accountability is the wrong word. No, I'm proof.
I'm proof of something that I speak the language of
this world, and I am someone you loved or currently
love from that world. And I think the people who go,
(23:50):
oh wait, yeah, I know I do love you.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
I know you.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
I must figure out a way to reconcile my belief
and my worldview and change the way I think right
to fit that, and some people do not everyone does,
including my mother.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
It's a weight to carry. Yeah. So you being there
and you being like the lovable and brilliant person that
you are and being able to speak that language, it
challenges that you challenge people in such an inviting way.
And I know that's not easy, but it is so
like powerful.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
And I like doing it. Yeah, we do like doing
that to Scorpio here, who kind of like doing it
because I love.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
We love being like, this is not who you are.
You have a good heart and you have bad politics.
And I was you.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
Yeah, yeah, I was you.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
I was and kind of am.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
What is this out to do with love?
Speaker 5 (25:05):
Right?
Speaker 1 (25:07):
I'm almost thirty and I still.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Know in my bones that I don't think I would
have left the church, the religion if I hadn't fallen
in love with a woman and felt what the difference
is between conditional and unconditional.
Speaker 5 (25:25):
Love, What that feels like in my body when it's tested.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
I was scared because coming out felt like I was
standing blindfolded and gagged in front of a doorway of
an airplane a thousand feet in the air, and someone
was telling.
Speaker 5 (25:42):
Me to jump. But, as is the case with any
strongly held belief, there will come a point when you
have to decide between a staying aligned with the value
it represents and breaking the rule that you invented to uphold.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
It.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Was there a moment where you stepped away from God
in religion completely?
Speaker 4 (26:07):
This question makes me nervous.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
This question still makes what are you scared of? I'm
thinking about the time.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
You know, when I did step away from God. I
literally was writing in a journal, like sweat dripping down
my face, like I do not believe in God. I
do not believe in God. I do not believe in God.
Because I was so scared of the words I do
not believe in God. I was like, He's gonna smite me,
(26:36):
you know, I was terrified, but I knew it was
like it is crazy that I am scared of thought,
scared to have a doubt, scared to say the words,
scared of you know, because if God is all powerful,
all loving, whatever, He's not afraid of my words, of
(26:58):
my thoughts, of my doubt. So in a way, it
was my faith that like allowed me to go there.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, like.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
God's not scared of our little fears or doubts or whatever.
And I so there was a time where I really
had to like move into that. And I think for
like a year or two or something, I tried not
to think about it. But it's a hard thing not
to It's you know, it's hard, it's a habit in
(27:29):
some ways. You know, it was hard to like ever,
actually let go.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
What's a habit exactly?
Speaker 4 (27:36):
Prayer? I mean it's like if you talk to God
every day for twenty five years, it just like you
can just like turn that off.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
You missed it.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
Yeah, I was like, it's like if you I literally
you know, have a conversation, a running conversation going with
the idea of God. So to step away from an
internal dialogue, right is pretty impossible.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
You know it sounds lonely, Yeah, lonely.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
It's like I didn't want to really, you know. There's
like my own relationship to prayer and faith is personal
and it doesn't feel related to like that's not the religion,
that's not the church. That's mine, Like it's my own experience.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
How do you talk to God?
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Now?
Speaker 4 (28:32):
Their relationship is pretty casual. I feel like it's like
God and I we've been through a lot right now,
I'm like, yeah, now when I talk to God is
just like hey, yeah, totally, Hey, could you chill out
(28:53):
for Yeah? I think I know how my relationship to
God to prayer is more like just checking in. I
still do like kind of close my eyes and bow
my head and go like hey, like thank you, you know,
I do a lot of the same stuff that I
always have, and my relationship to faith has changed a lot,
(29:17):
but that relationship to prayer, I still feel like I'm
talking to the same thing.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
That is something I feel like I don't do enough,
which is pray. So hearing you say you pray still
it's inspiring to me because I think it's something we feel.
I don't know, there's resistance, it's loaded. There's resistance to me. Yeah,
you know, and yeah, it's just a complicated thing. How
do you think prayer helps you understand yourself?
Speaker 4 (29:46):
I think it's a form of meditation. I think anytime
you slow down and like let your inner voice show
up and you know whatever, if you're calling it your
inner voice or you're calling it God, or you're calling
it consciousness or the ocean, anytime you sit down and
slow down and really look at it, I think you
(30:10):
get to know yourself more.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
I'm so scared of it. I'm so scary scared of it. Yeah,
because it is so vulnerable, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
Well, it's interesting that you say that because it's just
you're alone.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Maybe it's also a piece of like when you pray,
you're admitting something is out of your hands, you know
what I mean? There feels like this, this feeling of
like I can't do anything about this, I have to
just give it to something and hope that that's something.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
Has got you is a benevolent sort of presence. It
feels vulnerable to yeah, to admit or a feeling that
you maybe aren't don't want to have, or thought you
don't want to have, or yeah, and trust it's just
gonna pass through.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
What's your advice for people trying to figure out their
own identity and how do you unravel what you actually
want and believe versus what you were conditioned to want
and believe.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
That's a hard one.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
That's a tough one.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
It's a good one though.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Right now.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
I think.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
One major thing is I think listening to your body,
listening to the body you're the signals your body is
trying to give you, you know, which requires slowing down,
which requires like sort of like taking a breath. Also
finding people who are not judgmental and who are like
just open to being curious with you. I don't think
(31:38):
I could have figured it all out because this is
messy period. This is a period where you chat, you
gotta be able to change your mind. You got to
be able to like try something on and then be
like that wasn't it. And being able to like be
honest and vulnerable with people who are affirming of the process,
who are not going to like criticize you or try
to put you into some sort of category before you're
(32:01):
ready to. And the difference between conditioning it's really hard.
You gotta have a lot of grace for yourself, I think,
because that's for me at least in inner voices. It's
loud and there's a grieving process.
Speaker 5 (32:16):
But so being able to like take a moment.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
To be with that, yeah, right, be with the grief,
be with the ge the complexity.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
Yeah, and then be excited about like finding out what
is real. Like there's so it's holding on to that
idea of like, oh wait, there's a version of me
out there that is not scared or insecure as you know,
in the same way that's like embodied can really be
present with people and feel cute and whatever. It's not
(32:47):
it's all not so scary. It's quite exciting, right. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Yeah, I guess I'm hearing you and thinking of like
just really feeling.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Through your fears. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
One day at a time, like working through them thinking
you know what I mean, and getting to the other
side of them. Yeah, I'm gonna start praying again.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
I'm like, I love you.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
I love you too.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Coming out felt like I was standing blindfolded and gagged
in front of a doorway of an airplane a thousand
feet in the air, and someone was telling me to jump.
So I jump, and it turns out the plane is
on the fucking ground the whole time.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Guys, it is fine out here.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
It's fine. It's I'm not lost. I'm not I'm not
lost at all. I'm like, you know, it's fucking lovely
being gay. I'm not in agony. I'm collageing watching Ru
Paul with my friends. Really, it wasn't easy, because you know,
I still have that feeling, especially.
Speaker 5 (33:55):
Being here back home, I have that feeling oh no,
no no.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
But when I get that feeling, that fear, that confusion,
I wonder if my love is real, if my love
is worthy, if my love and my God will ever
really see each other.
Speaker 5 (34:11):
What I remember is that verse that God is love,
and I also remember that if the love is real
and the plane is already on the ground.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Thank you, thank you so much to LJ for telling
their story both on stage and in the studio with me.
Speaker 5 (34:44):
Will you finally disappear.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
It raised yourself from all those please.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
LJ is also an insanely talented singer and songwriter. This
is their beautiful song playing right now. You can listen
to the our music on Spotify just search l J
Grannard that's l J g r A n e r
e D. You can also follow them on Instagram and
TikTok at l J Granard to see what they're up to.
(35:14):
Thanks everyone for listening. Talk to y'all next week.
Speaker 5 (35:16):
Hell it's carton reaching home.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Boy Sover is a production of iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host,
Hope Ordered. Our executive producers are Christina Everett and Julie Pinero.
Our supervising producer is Emily Meronoff engineering by Bahid Fraser
and mixing and mastering by Aboo Zafar. If you liked
this episode, please tell a friend and don't forget to rate, review,
(35:51):
and subscribe to Boy Sober on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
and wherever you get your favorite shows.
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