September 24, 2025 • 37 mins
What really happens at a sex party? Hope shares her personal experience attending one hosted by NSFW, and debriefs with club founder Daniel Saynt about the party’s surprisingly healing effect.
Do you have a boysober story to share? We'd love to hear from you! Email us a voice note at boysoberpodcast@gmail.com, or leave a voicemail at (518) 83-SOBER. Please say your name before leaving your message, and don’t forget to include your phone number in case we want to follow up. By leaving a voicemail, you are giving Boysober permission and license to use some or all of your message in our show. But if you want to be anonymous, please state that in your call.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What would you say to someone who is celibate or
who's taking a break from sex, Like, why would you
encourage them to come to a sex party.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I think there is still that element of like watching
other people and seeing those elements of like love and
experience happen. I think there is a benefit of being
in a space where you can be safe. And I
think there's a difference between being sexual and having sex,
and I think these spaces allow for that. I can
feel sexy, but I don't have to have sex. I
can feel desired, but I don't have to be taken.
I can feel voyeuristic without feeling guilty. Like there's a
(00:31):
lot of other things you can experience within these spaces.
So I think for people who are celibate, it's still
a good place to be. We have asexual members who
come totally just to like because they're like, I just
like feeling sexy, but I have no desire for sex.
It's like that makes perfect sense.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I was on that dance floor.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I was like, I think I'm doing something for someone
up here.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
I was like, I'm not participating, but I think I'm
helping you.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Are you? I feel like, yeah, you definitely you were
the muse for the night. You definitely spark some inspirations.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I'm hopewordered and welcome to boys over a space where
we're learning and on learning. All the myths were taught
about love and relationships. Last spring, I decided to go
(01:24):
to a sex party. Honestly, I had no idea what
to expect, and I think a lot of people might
feel the same way. The party I went to was
hosted by NSFW, or the New Society for Wellness. It
was founded by our guest today, Daniel Saint. NSFW puts
on lots of different parties with themed nights, depending on
(01:45):
what someone's looking for and what they're into.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
It's a member's only club where you.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Have to apply to get accepted before going to the party.
I posted a video online about it, and the comments
proved no one really knew what to expect. I was
going into this really blind, but I will say I
wasn't going to the party to have sex. I was
more so just going to see what it was all about.
(02:11):
When I got there, I'll admit I was nervous. Thankfully,
no one was having sex yet. Everyone was just getting
to know each other. There was a DJ on stage
and a bar to the side. I did notice, though,
that the walls were lined with mattresses for people to
use when the time was right.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Let me go ahead and clarify I did not have
sex at the sex party.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I kissed one girl who then asked me to kiss
her boyfriend, which I politely declined, But overall I was
happy to have attended.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
The space seemed.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Really healing for a lot of people. It was collective
and consensual. So today we're sitting down with Daniel to
talk about how he created this space and reveal the
healing powers behind nsfw's mission.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Daniel, welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Thank you so much for the invite.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Let's just get right into it. I love that you
call yourself a pleasure evangelist.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Yeah, pleasure preacher.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Tell me exactly what that is like if you had
to give that a definition.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Well, I think for a lot of people, pleasure is
not something that's often prioritized in their lives. When they
think about the things that are most important to them,
it really tends to be that their own sexual pleasure
or the things that they enjoy sexually, tend to be
the lowest thing on their list. They might be focused
on a relationship, which is different from sex. They might
be focused on their careers, they might be focused on
(03:38):
personal em betterment, but very often pleasure is not something
that people prioritize. So as a pleasure evangelist and someone
who's encouraging people to seek out pleasure, it's really about
putting that into one of the higher priorities in your life,
to really seek out pleasure as something that will not
only bring on mental health spiritual health, but also just
connect you more to people which I think a lot
(03:58):
of people are looking for right now.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
You know, I'm assuming before you gave yourself this title,
you were probably having these conversations with people prioritizing pleasure
and things like that.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
When did that kind of start for you?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Well, I think some of it definitely started when I
was in the fashion industry. I think doing what I
did and being so successful in marketing and working with
brands like Louis Vuitton and Berberry and really developing campaigns
to create it products and things that people must have
to you know, feel happy, and working with influencers early on,
I kind of just came to this place where I
felt like I was using my skills to sell something
(04:31):
that wasn't real happiness, and I wanted to use my
skills in marketing to sell something that was free, and
that was, you know, a real sense of happiness. And
for me, that became about, you know, having a healthy
conversation around sex, having a healthy sex life and a
sexy life in a sense. And that's where that idea
of really encouraging people to not look at sex clubs
(04:51):
or these types of environments as dirty and instead look
at them as you know, these opportunities to connect and
to meet new people and to discover things about yourself.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
When I I heard sex party, I didn't immediately go
to judgment and I was just curious of how I
would feel there, what it would be like.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I had no idea.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
But I called my mom after I went to the party,
and I was like, Mom, like, I.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Went to a sex party.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
I just thought we were going to gab about it,
like I was like it was for work, Like I
get to interview the guy who's running it, Like I
was so excited. And she immediately was like I don't
like where this is going. Like we got in a fight.
I had to hang up on her, I had to
block her for a minute. She was like blowing me
up with text messages, and she's usually like a very
sex positive person. What does your mom think about your job?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I mean initially it was like a shock obviously. I
think like I started as FW around the same time
I came out, So it was just like a lot
of things layered on top of each other, like, hey, mom,
I'm by and I have a boyfriend and a girlfriend,
so also Polly, but also I'm studying this whole community
of people to like fuck and so it was a
lot of layers. I exited all rapidly. We spent like
(05:52):
about six months of not really talking and then we
start talking again. And I think like when she saw
how it was helping couples, and it was helping people
who were like about to get divorced and now they're
staying together and they have this like space to be
and like their marriage is stronger and they're happier. And
when she started hearing those stories and seeing that type
of stuff, or you know, we had articles where it's
like I, you know, it was able to deal with
my sexual abuse because I was able to go to
(06:14):
this party and feel myself being safe naked and not
feeling like my body was going to attract violence, and you.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Have these stories.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
I would send it to every so often like see,
like this is not an evil thing. This isn't like
a sex free for all, like you know, go crazy.
This is like actually helping people deal with sexual trauma
and things, you know, keeping their marriages together and all
these things. And I think now they have like an
acceptance of it, which I appreciate very much. So yeah,
so it would be really hard if they just absolutely
hated it.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Remind me how long in SFW has been going on
ten years now, ten years, Wow, so she's had time
to adjust.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, they would never attend.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
But I want to know, when did you attend your
first sex party?
Speaker 3 (06:55):
What was it like for you?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
It has to be like at least like maybe twenty
twenty plus.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Was it easy?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Were you surprised me? I wish it had a bit
different than it was.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I mean I was traveling a lot for you know,
running Nylon and doing all the fashion week stuff, so
I was able to go to a lot of international
cities and see like their sex scenes and you know,
being bisexual and seeing the gay side of things and
the straight side of things, and I think there's a
lot of things that I saw there that I didn't like,
which is why, you know, when I created an SFW
kind of addressed some of those things, like women feeling
like property and women kind of being traded off within
(07:26):
swinger events, and like the lack of consent and you know,
being in a room and having someone touch you without
you know, you saying it's okay. Like people just weren't
having those content conversations at that time, right. So I
think a lot of my experiences were experiences where, you know,
there was one time I was I was drugged and
I was raped. There was one time where you know,
multiple times I was sexually assaulted. There was like a
(07:47):
lot of experiences that I was not comfortable with and
didn't have the language or the voice to say no,
and then felt a massive amount of guilt afterwards. You know,
it's like, oh, this is God punishing me for doing
these bad things, and like if only I did good things,
then I wouldn't be punished or God wouldn't hate me
so much, and I deserve this, you know. So I
think it took a long time to go through those
(08:09):
experiences and to realize what was wrong with those experiences
and how those things weren't inherently because I sinned, but
those things were just because it was poorly organized, and
like the people din't care about those things, So like,
let's create a space.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
That does care.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
So tell me a little bit more about like the
difference between an average sex party in in a SFW.
Like we read somewhere that in AFW has been called
the soul cycle of sex clubs. How does make you
feel like I'm a soul cycle girl through and through?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
So, Like, I think if you get you know, some
random like Craigslist or you know, fet life type party
and the invite looks like shitty and it doesn't look
very clean, or it's in a random space, you don't
know any of the people going, you have a certain
idea that it's unsafe or that it's dirty. But when
it's set up in a more packaged way, there's like
places where you can connect with people beforehand, there's like
(08:58):
a whole online community.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
There's all these extra.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Layers to make it feel more safe, and I think
that's where we differentiate from the traditional anything and everything
sex party. But there are really really good people who
have done great parties, and there's events that I go
to like I love Sanctum, and I've seen like really
great stuff come out of Kismet and other events that
are happening in the city and other places that do
it well. The play La is doing a phenomenal job,
so like there is like an element of people elevating
(09:23):
the space now, but I think early on when we
first started, there really wasn't an example of it. There
wasn't anything good out there in that way.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Okay, paint me a picture of what going to your
club is. Like Let's say someone's never been to a
play party. How do you explain it to them?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, I would say, like, you know, initially you're going
to come in, you'll have kind of the rules read
to you of like what the clubhouse rules are. We
keep them pretty much simple. Respect, hydrate, don't be a creeper,
love totally, you know, really trying to teach people to
not be over things tosscated at the events, don't take
drugs from strangers. Things that you feel people should know
but sometimes forget. When they're in playful environments, then there's
(09:56):
normally some sort of activity like usually games or something
we usually have like a truth or dir agenga and
stuff like that, or like things that people can do
initially before any of the performances start, would do erotic
sketching where members will come and like donate to like
you know, be the body that we're all sketching for
the night. Then around midnight there's usually a performance by
the Muses. The Muses, you know, do different types of performances.
(10:18):
Usually themes sometimes will be like around the specific theme
of the night, and that just kind of like excites
people and gets people kind of energized and excited about
you know what might come. Lights dim a bit past midnight,
people are usually like playing or connecting.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Yeah, always a bar.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
There's always, yeah, some sort of element that's there for
them as well.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Like I know because I've visited, but for someone who's
not there, you walk in, the room is open. Kind
of describe like the setting.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Yeah right now.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I mean like there's like multiple beds that are available
for people. Usually we like to have spaces that have
more private rooms as well, so you can find like
somewhere to thinak away to. We have an entire couple's
only sections, so you have to be coupled to go
into this one section where most of the play is happening,
and there's like three different themedrop rooms that will have
within the space for like special experiences.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Are there separate spaces for different types of kink?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yeah, so we have done events like that. With the
space that we have in Chelsea. We actually have like
a separate dungeon. It's like torture themed.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
So they have like one of those stretching devices that
stretches your body out, and they have like a queening
chair and crazy person cells and like a whole bunch
of other things that people can play with.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
Which is really fun.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Oh that is really fun.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Something I so appreciated about being at the sex party
was like, I think we had this conversation a little,
but I've never watched porn, so going to that sex
party was my first time seeing like live sex happen.
And I feel like, I know so many girlfriends who
have boyfriends that are addicted to porn and it's like
truly ruined their relationship. And again, like partners that have
watched a ton of porn think that that's how they're
(11:48):
supposed to do it.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
That's what we want.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
And I was like, Wow, if those people could just
like watch a sex party happen, and see like real
kind of love making, real people like doing this together.
I don't know, it just felt so much safer, so
much more connected, so much more human. So I really
think there's something there.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Yeah, And I do talk about this a lot if
you really consider you know, people in general, like on average,
maybeero point five percent of the population has seen people
have sex live, right, you know, like maybe they saw
one of their roommates having sex with someone next to
them in college or something, or they walked in on
someone having sex. Very very few people within the actual
population have that ability to like just watch people having
(12:31):
sex and seeing how everyday people.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Real people have to do it.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
So I think like the real benefit on the educational
side of this and why it does help people start
prioritizing pleasure is because they see what pleasure looks like
in real life couples, and they see what that you know,
sexual energy looks like in real life couples. A lot
of times people are like they're so like engaged or
so connected, they're so like in sync, Like how do
I get that? And it's because all you've watched this porn,
(12:55):
You're watching two people who don't know each other, who
are fucking there for the first day very rarely, or
you see like yeah, for a job for.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Money and like getting it out.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
You're seeing you know, Olympic level performers having sex. Now,
this is people who actually enjoy sex, really real people
who are doing it, who like really love it, and
people who are in love who are having sex, where
you are seeing a very different type of connection. Yeah,
and that longing for that connection to be able to
have that is a big driver for people as to
why they like then Okay, how do how do I
find a partner like this? How do I find someone
(13:23):
who's going to accept me for these things? How do
I find someone who's explorative and who's curious and who
wants to explore pleasure? And that really does change a
lot of people's direction, and change the direction in terms
of the friends they make, changes the direction in terms
of like the partners they to choose orho they end
up with. And you know, we have a lot of
couples who've come out of NSFW who've met there and
now are getting married and they have these great sex
(13:44):
lives because they have those first like you know, foundations
of like oh, I can talk about sex without feeling
weird about it, and I won't be judged if I
say I wanted to try something or I can watch
someone and be turned on by it without having to
do it myself and figure out if that's something I
might want to do. You know, it's very very different
from porn.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yeah, and I love that you bring up the couples
and I love to hear that people met there and
fell in love. Do you have like a favorite success
story or like something.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
I mean, there's definitely ones.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I mean, I definitely have friends who like tell me like, oh,
my whole friend group came from NSFW, Like I didn't
have friends before and now I have this whole group
of people that I go on vacations with and travel with.
So I think that aspect is huge, especially in a
time where people are having difficulty finding friends. I think
in terms of the couples, I see a lot of them,
Like there's just one coumble particular who like recently just
(14:32):
got married and you.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Get invited to a lot of weddings.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
I do.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Yeah, every I'm like it's kind of exciting though, Like
it is kind of exciting how many people you're bringing together, Like.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Is that one of those I want to do more
of that.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, I mean again, this was like going from selling
handbags and shoes to selling love and connection and pleasure
for people. I think, you know, I knew that it
would bring some benefits. Like a good friend of mine
was a mentor for a long time. She started this
company called Fishbowl. It was like big in the advertising
world for a while. Then she said, like, the biggest
success you'll have is when you're invited to weddings, like
(15:06):
because of those connections are made. Yeah, you can be
invited to like, oh, we just acquired this business, so
we're gonna have a party. But when you actually get
invited to a wedding of people that you introduced or
that you brought together, or that because of you, they
are connected, Like that's kind of.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
The biggest joy.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
So oh totally.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I've always seen that as like, yeah, like whatever I
want to do in my life, I want to make
sure that aspect is there, that connection is there, and
that's real.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
I do want to talk about the difficulties of running
this business, Like, again, a lot of people have misconceptions.
You know, you have your code of conduct, I know,
and you have all these rules in place, but like
what is maybe one of the more difficult elements of
this business.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
I mean, I think there's a couple of things to consider. One,
it's like we do work with people who are doing
sex work only fans and other things like that, and
you know, sometimes that does bring mental health challenges that
are unique, like bipolar disorder or borderline personality disorders, or
like people have experienced extreme amounts of trauma early on
in life and their approach to the spaces might not
(16:15):
always be positive. There are predatory people out there, There's
no doubt about it. You know, like every single person
knows someone who's experienced rape. Every single person knows someone
who's experienced you know, aggression or violence, or have been
in relationships where you know they can't get out, or
there's domestic abuse. So I think those are elements that
sometimes are attracted to places like this. People who want
to hurt people will find these places and will try
(16:37):
to infiltrate or try to come in and try to
do things. And that's why you need those safety measures
in place. That's why you need people policing the space
themselves and letting us know. But yeah, when you do
the type thing, that's what you're going to attract, and
then the other side of it, you're also attracting like
very wealthy people sometimes and you know, the behaviors of
wealthy people are very different from everyday people in terms
of what they're trying to get out of it or
(16:58):
what experience.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Talk to me a little bit more about the consent element.
How do you approach it?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
I mean, I think, like you know, couples can approach
it in their own way. If you're with a trusted
partner and you you know know and things like that,
it's a little bit easier. We do encourage partners to
have those conversations beforehand, to set some expectations, to give
their hard nos, what's not okay, what is okay, and
to have those talks before you come to tennis f W.
And don't surprise people when they're there. We've advised, you know,
(17:25):
members to make sure they let the people know exactly
where they're bringing them, because there has been times where
someone's like our first date sensf W. I had no
idea I was coming here, and now they're on a
first day at a sex club, and how do you manage.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
How do you manage something like that?
Speaker 4 (17:39):
That heart heavy scolding.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
If someone crosses a line.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Yeah, it's like you.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Put everything else at risk, like, so don't do that.
But in terms of consent, we talk about enthusiastic consent.
Enthusiastic consent is the idea that if it's not a
hell yes, it's a hell no. So you want to
verbalize and ask for what you you know, are into
it and what you want to do. We give people
advice and we do this event called send Nubes where
we talk about here's all the ways that you can
go through this, how to ask for sex, you know,
(18:05):
basically it's a full lesson on that, and it goes
into like, you know, how to approach things and how
to like build up excitement for things, and how to
ask the questions that will get you a better answer.
Also how to say no without harming someone and just
write someone and trying to be like an asshole about it,
and how to accept knows without being aggressive and being
(18:26):
like a poudy little bitch, like like we really try
to be like, hey, this is how we expect you
to behave try your best, like, yeah, people will make mistakes,
but like you know this will be better for you.
You'll have better outcomes and then you'll have a better
sex life, you'll get the sex that you want, but
you need to understand we have to have some set
rules for it, because.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
I think one of the things people have brought up
to me over and over again when I say sex
party is they're like, what about STDs? And I'm like,
I would assume someone going to a sex party is
going to be more on their p's and ques about
getting tested and knowing what's up. Like then someone who's
just like the last same amound be is.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
The person who gives a whole.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Bunch of people something press you.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Out of the party completely and then it's like, oh,
this person knowingly did this or this person didn't get
tested properly and then read this. So I think SDEs
are an active part of the conversation. I would say, like,
the one thing that I do find to be helping
with that is the awareness of PREP and the awareness
of PEP, like the fact that there are pills that
you can take you know when you have more risky
(19:27):
or sex right that will prevent you from getting most
at cities will vent you from getting HIV.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
You don't have to be on.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
A permanent prescription you can literally take it, like within
seventy two hours of any sort of exposure. You take
your little pill cocktail, and then you don't have any
of those things. So, like, I think there needs to
be more awareness around things like that, where it's like, yes,
use protection, you know, know the condoms that you like
to use, to use the things that you want, right,
but also keep in mind there is an alternative of like, Okay,
(19:52):
I did just go wild and crazy at the sex party.
Let me make sure I take my medicine so that
I don't have anything I don't know, And you can
get a prescription. They'll give you thirty days and automatic refills.
It costs like less than five dollars. It's generic, and
then you just have it in your pill cabinet. And
then after you go and do like your wild and
crazy thing, you take your six pills. Next day you
(20:15):
take two and you're good to go.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Don I want to talk about like how you really
become a member because I got lucky because we had
this interview and so we sent you an email. I
got to, you know, jump a couple of steps. But
if someone wants to become a member, what is that
process like and I've also heard some rumblings of like
an attractiveness scale.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Is there truth to that? What is that? Is that
a thing? Talk to me about all of that.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah, So we approve memberships based off of fourteen points
of attraction. So what we are looking at our responses
to questions like what is your relationship to sex? What
can you contribute to the community, What you're looking for,
what your preferences are, how you identify. But it's more
than just you know, gender identities, but like do you
identify as someone who's into ropes or who's into like
(21:02):
playful things or kink and other stuff, So we look
at that stuff. People provide their social media profiles so
we're able to see their profiles. Things we look for
on there is like circle of friends, like who are
you connected to? Are you just a loner or you
just like kind of by yourself or do you have
images where you know you have family around you or
other stuff?
Speaker 3 (21:18):
You like a social person?
Speaker 4 (21:19):
Yeah, if you're social in general.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
We look at career, so jobs to determine estimated amount
of how much you're making and stuff like that. We
also look at your travels to see if you're well
traveled and then we paid textual attention to things like
artists or artists endeavor so content creation or you're developing
a show, developing something yourself, like you're.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Trying to create something creative.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, you're in some sort of creative field. So we
look at those fourteen points and if you get nine,
then you're.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
In oh, nine out of fourteen.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah, and like personal hygiens one, like a general attractiveness,
Like right, physical attractiveness is one. Age is definitely another factor.
But yeah, if you get nine out of the fourteen,
then you get accepted in.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Okay, and this scale of attractiveness is inclusive of like
so many aspect everything.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yes, And there's also certain times that we've had where
we're like, okay, we feel like this is underrepresented within
the membership. So then we two special efforts of like Okay,
let's go on these type of podcasts, let's talk to
these type of people. Let's book this performer who will
like reflect on that audience better. Let's create an event
specifically for members who are within this category. And that
helps us like keep it very I think there's like
(22:22):
a benefit in having like a lot of diversity or
diverse voices within the membership itself, so it doesn't just
feel so one thing.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
I want to know what makes someone not get those
nine points? What is it about someone when.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
I get that some supporter, we can't have you in.
And now they've all become Trump supporters.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
So when we got to the end of the party
and we were talking about who we were voting for
for mayor, I was like, should I have not brought
up politics at the sex party?
Speaker 3 (22:53):
I was like, we had a.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Very no Trump allowed policy.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah, and it still stands, like, right, I started this
right when he was just selected, like the first time,
Like it was right around the time where it became like,
you know, more public and available for people. I remember
one of my first like conspirator letters was like because
of Trump, I've quit my job to focus on this belief.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Oh my god, we must sex at all costs.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
Expression conservativeness is not good a new rule where it's like,
all right, we can't one hundred say absolutely not because
they you know, they're.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Like musk, like I don't mind being in the room
with someone who has a different view than me, and
to me, I think like it's an exciting opportunity and
I completely understand why you would want to say no
to that group of people because you have to wonder,
why do you want to be in an inclusive space
if you're supporting someone who is explicitly not inclusive.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
And it's also like, I mean, I think there is
still that desire to be accepted, and especially in certain spaces,
like I don't think that it benefits to completely say no.
I think there is an opportunity to have different political
opinions and share a bed, but it's a complicated one.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Okay, we have to get away from politics and back
to sex, and I think they're one and the same personally.
I'm like, I need to have the same politics as
the person I'm sleeping with. But that's just me, yes, okay.
Speaking of rules, speaking of guidelines, speaking of getting into
the club, what's the age limit? Is there a top
and a bottom, like eighteen to anything?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yeah, so we're twenty one plus plus must be twenty
one or above. I would say the average age right
now is looking like thirty thirty one. We were at
twenty six for a bit and then.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Like people got older who initially joined.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
But now what we're starting to do is like as
the membership itself Agias we are trying to create more
events that are specifically for people within.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
A certain age range.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
So there isn't that much of an age gap from
the people that you're meeting out the space, and those
parties will most likely be focused around people up to
age twenty seven. And so if you're a blow age
twenty seven, it's kind of a party you can go
to specific for that. You can usually come to the
other ones. But I don't want to have an environment where, like,
you know, someone's like way too old and someone's way
too young. The younger person's brand new to the club.
That person's like senior and like has been doing it
(25:10):
for a while. Yeah, they can still come to the
other things. There might be people who are in their
forties and you know, going up to fifties. But again
it's just to make it more comfortable.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
So I heard you say play party, and I was
new to this language and this terminology because of course
I've just been throwing around sex party. What's the difference
between a sex party and a play party? Are they
interchangeable words?
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I mean, I think there's you know, negative connotations like
come with sex party. I think if you told your
mom you went to a play party, she'd be a
little bit more curious, right, what is that?
Speaker 4 (25:37):
What is a play party?
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Yeah, Like, oh, you know, and I think a play
party does have, you know, different ideas of what you
can do there. It's not just about sex. There might
be other activities or other things you can do and
engage in that are more playful, usually things around discovery,
around kink or BDSM or rope play or other stuff.
So like play parties kind of fall within that category.
Is like, Okay, I can go to a play party
(26:00):
have sex, you know. And I think one thing that
we are very big on when we talk about NSFW
is like we aren't a sex party. We're a party
where you can have sex, you know, and like really
kind of change that idea. Like seventy percent of people
who you know will go to some of the bigger
parties do not have sex. It's their first time watching
people do stuff, it's the first time seeing certain things,
so that is a big part of their experience, and
(26:22):
then other people do. But I think, you know, just
being a party first.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
And then adding on the other elements helps out.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Party first, sex second.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
When you're looking for a partner, sex partner life partner whatever.
Where do you place physical attractiveness on a personal scale?
Speaker 2 (26:55):
I see I've been very blessed by extremely attractive partners,
but it's not like, yeah, I have really pretty partners sometimes,
but it's not the main factor for me. Like I think,
like I'm very much in this place of I want
to create a family, I want to get my home,
I want.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
To like do these like check the box?
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, check these boxes as I get older, So I
think a lot of my thinking around partners right now
is like, Okay, like can I imagine you like cleaning
up diapers? Can I imagine you, like, do you do
you would you want to like take care.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Of a child at some dust?
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Where you want to do any of these things? Or
do you want kids? Yeah? Can we fight together?
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Well?
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Can we like live together? Can we like do these things?
And I was like married before, so I definitely had
that experience of like, you know, finding that partner, being
with someone. But it's about your priorities and where you
are in life and that's what's going to impact who
you find attractive or who you're interested in.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
And so how old were you when you got married?
And how is the divorce?
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Was it easy. Were you all on the same page.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
I was.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
I was twenty three when I got married.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
We had dated for a year.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
The six months anniversary our first date, she proposed to
me on the Eiffel Tower.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
She proposed to you.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
Yeah, And then it was.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Just like, well, this is great because like my parents
were already upset that I was dating and not getting married.
So it was just kind of like a speed run
to marriage. And then we got married, and we built
our company together at the time, and you know, worked
very well together for six years.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Six years wow.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Yeah. And then yeah, I think like I wasn't completely
honest in things or how I felt about things, or
being bisexual. I just felt it was just very easy
for me to just like turn off a certain part
of me. But then as I was like becoming thirty,
I was like, this is weird. Like I'm in this,
I'm in the fashion world, like everyone's gay, like everyone's
like open or whatever, and it doesn't feel normal to me.
(28:41):
And I want to live authentically. I want to be
who I am and not feel shamed by it or
ashamed of it. So yeah, after I came out, it
was kind of like it wasn't gonna work.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Anymore, so you kind of pulled the plug.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah, I mean I think it was like it was
a lot of challenges towards the end. I think it
was just things that was beyond either of our ability.
Like I wish I had the ten years of being
at NSFW to then look at that relationship again and
be like, actually, here's all the things that we could
do to prevent us from fucking this up, or prevent
us from like resenting each other or just like each other.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Like there's ways that we could do this.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
So I think like at the time, I just wasn't
ready for those types of conversations. And now, like looking back,
it's like, I wish I knew this stuff then, because
I feel like it would have been a different type
of relationship in life.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
You get together when you're twenty three, you're thirty, you're
a completely different person. Like that era of your life,
you're changing so much, you're becoming a completely new person.
Like it would be extremely difficult to navigate and to
navigate well. And I don't think any of us really
have the tools at that time, you know, to navigate
all of that. I kind of want to know, like,
(29:49):
where do you really see ANSFW going like I really
the way I see it as kind of someone new
to this scene and a bit of an outsider, is like,
I do feel like it's a really huge space. I
do feel like spaces like this are going to be
so important in the future, just when it comes to
like technology and separation, like when you think about in
(30:11):
cells and when you think about women who can't find
satisfying sex lives, like I do think people are having
a difficult time having and finding fulfilling, pleasurable sex. So like,
where do you see this going in the future and
how do you want to impact really.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Really, I mean, I think like we've now now that
we're coming into our tenth year, the big conversation is
around how do we expand how do we provide this
to more people and develop more of these spaces so
that the community does become more global and we have
more of a connected group. A big focus for that
is around the franchise model, So we are creating kind
of educational tapes to teach people how to host these
(30:49):
events and how to deal with conflicts and deal with
things like that, and we plan to make that open
to existing members who want to start their own parties
and we take like a franchise fee from that of
percentage of ticket sales. But they're able to represent the
NSFW brand in their cities and their communities. They're able
to build a business around it, and we're able to
pry them the tools to do that. We have a
(31:09):
partner in London who's been very interested in that, so
we're looking at that one first. La is probably going
to be our next secondary city that will start hosting events.
And but I think that's the best model for us,
where it's like, here's everything that we've learned, here's everything
that we've developed, and here's the community already built in.
Build it as your own, like go off and like
start creating these communities, start creating the spaces, and the
money will come. Like it does sell well and people
(31:32):
do sign up and join. So I think that's our
route of building this out. How do we make it
as you know McDonald's as possible in a way where
it's like, how do we make this so that people
can sign up, decide to become a franchisee, run their
own spaces and it's part of the greater community.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Do you feel like you are a sex expert like,
do you feel like you have good sex advice?
Speaker 4 (31:52):
I do, I feel like.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Advice or someone like trying to kind of find them cells,
find their desire, figure out what they find pleasurable. Like
what's your advice for someone to sort of start this journey?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
I mean, I think it's seeking out the spaces, seeking
out the communities, and looking for things. So you know,
a lot of cities have these types of experiences and
these types of places that exist. A lot of times
you need a partner or a couple to go, but
definitely building on that, there's great apps as well, Like
Field has done a great job of kind of bringing
people together who are a little bit more playful. So
I think it's really about finding people like that is
(32:29):
kind of the first step for anyone who wants to
be more sexually explortive, and you know, connecting and figuring
out how to go on dates or how to connect
parties or how to go to events together, and that'll
help kind of lead you on a proper path.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Before I let you go, I want to know what
your thoughts are on gen Z and the whole celibacy
movement in general, Like, what are your thoughts on gen
Z having less sex.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
I mean, I shed tears for gen Z sometimes. I think, like,
I find it so sad that millennials are the less
freaks generation. Hoping it's not as so common. I would say,
like within gen Z, though, there is a difference between
sex and the experiences of sex. So I think there
is a growing amount of people in gen Z who
are attracted to BDSM, who are going into kinky type
(33:12):
things or bondage or dom subtype relationships and doing all
that without having sex. Like they're very much so exploring
a lot of like the intricacies of sex and the
other elements of sex that exist without actually having sex.
So I think there is an interesting aspect there.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Because you always have to kind of ask the question
what is sex? Yeah, and like is sex for you
kind of traditional biblical P and V situation or is
sex for you just like stimulation?
Speaker 3 (33:38):
You know?
Speaker 1 (33:38):
And so in my time like being celibate, every time
somebody would tell me they were celibate too, I'd be like, Okay,
but what are your rules?
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Right?
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Do you know what I mean? Like what celibacy to you?
Is it everything?
Speaker 1 (33:48):
But you know?
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Or yeah?
Speaker 2 (33:50):
I mean I again, I have this hope for this
healing period, or at least coming to it. I don't
think we as a society are going to survive if
people aren't forming relationships, having kids and are you know,
kind of like bringing on the next generation. I think
we face a lot of challenges, so there has to
be a growing desire to move more towards people finding
(34:10):
these relationships and people connecting and this loneliness that people
are experiencing being reduced.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Have you ever considered celibacy or has that been a
piece of your journey.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
I mean, I've definitely done celibacy over the past ten years,
certain periods of time. I think we need.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Resets totally, and that's all it is.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Yeah, we break Like I think there's two ways of
thinking about relationships. One it's like you break up. That'sest
way to get over the last relationship is get into
your next relationship. Get into bed with someone else as
quickly as possible. You're gonna get over them quickly.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
And the second one is like, take a pause, totally reflect,
I'm like, what works, what didn't work? Why didn't it work? Yes,
And it's okay to like give your body time to
be alone and to kind of recollect your energy. There's
a lot of energy that goes out during sex. There's
a lot of energy that goes out in relationships. We're
giving up a lot of ourselves. Yeah, so when we
(34:59):
have that moment of pause to really reflect and take
back those elements of ourselves, we'd have to respect that
and we have to consider it as part of our
healing process for relationships, as part of our ability to
kind of like move on and to move on to
the next thing. And I don't think people really take
enough time to consider that sex is an emotional thing.
(35:20):
Sex is an energy exchange. Sex is a lot more
than just the activity of sex. So, like, if you
are active, active, active, if you aren't taking those moments
to take a pause, then you know, what are you
active for? Is it just the action of numbers and
getting as many numbers as possible. Is it the action
of actually trying to form a real connection with someone,
to form a real relationship, or is it the actions
of someone who is just like letting themselves kind of
(35:43):
go with the flow and just be like, Okay, well
this is fine because they want this, And it's like
it's not really my decision.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
I'm just like in it.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
It's been a bit of an escape for me before sex,
Like it's just a way for me to just like
completely clock out mentally.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
And even sexual experiences, you know, in different in different spaces,
Like I still really enjoy anonymous sex where like I'm
not known and like talking to just go into a
space and like, you know, stuff happens, you know. Yeah,
I think you learn how to express sex in multiple ways,
but I think it's very important that celibacy be considered one.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
Of the ways that you express sex.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
I agree, because this is about you taking control, taking
the moment, and sex not being the control.
Speaker 4 (36:22):
In your life totally.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
It's something that you enjoy and experience and you control
in your life.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
I'm so thankful Daniel invited me to the party. It
was clearly a sacred space where people were able to
heal and express and find collective ecstasy, and I felt
really lucky to be a part of that, even if
I didn't want to kiss that girl's boyfriend. I'm curious
to know if any listeners have had experiences with sex parties.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Colin.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
If you have any thoughts, questions, or stories, our phone
number is five one eight eight three seven six two
three seven.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
I'll talk to y'all next week.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Boy Sover is a production of iHeart Podcasts I'm your Host, Hopewordard.
Our executive producers are Christina Everett and Julie Pinero. Our
supervising producer is Emily Meronoff. Our assistant producer is Logan Palau.
Engineering by Bahid Fraser and mixing and mastering by Abu Zafar.
(37:36):
If you liked this episode, please tell a friend and
don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to Boy Sober
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get
your favorite shows
What would you say to someone who is celibate or
who's taking a break from sex, Like, why would you
encourage them to come to a sex party.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I think there is still that element of like watching
other people and seeing those elements of like love and
experience happen. I think there is a benefit of being
in a space where you can be safe. And I
think there's a difference between being sexual and having sex,
and I think these spaces allow for that. I can
feel sexy, but I don't have to have sex. I
can feel desired, but I don't have to be taken.
I can feel voyeuristic without feeling guilty. Like there's a
(00:31):
lot of other things you can experience within these spaces.
So I think for people who are celibate, it's still
a good place to be. We have asexual members who
come totally just to like because they're like, I just
like feeling sexy, but I have no desire for sex.
It's like that makes perfect sense.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I was on that dance floor.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I was like, I think I'm doing something for someone
up here.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
I was like, I'm not participating, but I think I'm
helping you.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Are you? I feel like, yeah, you definitely you were
the muse for the night. You definitely spark some inspirations.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I'm hopewordered and welcome to boys over a space where
we're learning and on learning. All the myths were taught
about love and relationships. Last spring, I decided to go
(01:24):
to a sex party. Honestly, I had no idea what
to expect, and I think a lot of people might
feel the same way. The party I went to was
hosted by NSFW, or the New Society for Wellness. It
was founded by our guest today, Daniel Saint. NSFW puts
on lots of different parties with themed nights, depending on
(01:45):
what someone's looking for and what they're into.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
It's a member's only club where you.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Have to apply to get accepted before going to the party.
I posted a video online about it, and the comments
proved no one really knew what to expect. I was
going into this really blind, but I will say I
wasn't going to the party to have sex. I was
more so just going to see what it was all about.
(02:11):
When I got there, I'll admit I was nervous. Thankfully,
no one was having sex yet. Everyone was just getting
to know each other. There was a DJ on stage
and a bar to the side. I did notice, though,
that the walls were lined with mattresses for people to
use when the time was right.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Let me go ahead and clarify I did not have
sex at the sex party.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I kissed one girl who then asked me to kiss
her boyfriend, which I politely declined, But overall I was
happy to have attended.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
The space seemed.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Really healing for a lot of people. It was collective
and consensual. So today we're sitting down with Daniel to
talk about how he created this space and reveal the
healing powers behind nsfw's mission.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Daniel, welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Thank you so much for the invite.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Let's just get right into it. I love that you
call yourself a pleasure evangelist.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Yeah, pleasure preacher.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Tell me exactly what that is like if you had
to give that a definition.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Well, I think for a lot of people, pleasure is
not something that's often prioritized in their lives. When they
think about the things that are most important to them,
it really tends to be that their own sexual pleasure
or the things that they enjoy sexually, tend to be
the lowest thing on their list. They might be focused
on a relationship, which is different from sex. They might
be focused on their careers, they might be focused on
(03:38):
personal em betterment, but very often pleasure is not something
that people prioritize. So as a pleasure evangelist and someone
who's encouraging people to seek out pleasure, it's really about
putting that into one of the higher priorities in your life,
to really seek out pleasure as something that will not
only bring on mental health spiritual health, but also just
connect you more to people which I think a lot
(03:58):
of people are looking for right now.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
You know, I'm assuming before you gave yourself this title,
you were probably having these conversations with people prioritizing pleasure
and things like that.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
When did that kind of start for you?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Well, I think some of it definitely started when I
was in the fashion industry. I think doing what I
did and being so successful in marketing and working with
brands like Louis Vuitton and Berberry and really developing campaigns
to create it products and things that people must have
to you know, feel happy, and working with influencers early on,
I kind of just came to this place where I
felt like I was using my skills to sell something
(04:31):
that wasn't real happiness, and I wanted to use my
skills in marketing to sell something that was free, and
that was, you know, a real sense of happiness. And
for me, that became about, you know, having a healthy
conversation around sex, having a healthy sex life and a
sexy life in a sense. And that's where that idea
of really encouraging people to not look at sex clubs
(04:51):
or these types of environments as dirty and instead look
at them as you know, these opportunities to connect and
to meet new people and to discover things about yourself.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
When I I heard sex party, I didn't immediately go
to judgment and I was just curious of how I
would feel there, what it would be like.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I had no idea.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
But I called my mom after I went to the party,
and I was like, Mom, like, I.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Went to a sex party.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
I just thought we were going to gab about it,
like I was like it was for work, Like I
get to interview the guy who's running it, Like I
was so excited. And she immediately was like I don't
like where this is going. Like we got in a fight.
I had to hang up on her, I had to
block her for a minute. She was like blowing me
up with text messages, and she's usually like a very
sex positive person. What does your mom think about your job?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I mean initially it was like a shock obviously. I
think like I started as FW around the same time
I came out, So it was just like a lot
of things layered on top of each other, like, hey, mom,
I'm by and I have a boyfriend and a girlfriend,
so also Polly, but also I'm studying this whole community
of people to like fuck and so it was a
lot of layers. I exited all rapidly. We spent like
(05:52):
about six months of not really talking and then we
start talking again. And I think like when she saw
how it was helping couples, and it was helping people
who were like about to get divorced and now they're
staying together and they have this like space to be
and like their marriage is stronger and they're happier. And
when she started hearing those stories and seeing that type
of stuff, or you know, we had articles where it's
like I, you know, it was able to deal with
my sexual abuse because I was able to go to
(06:14):
this party and feel myself being safe naked and not
feeling like my body was going to attract violence, and you.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Have these stories.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
I would send it to every so often like see,
like this is not an evil thing. This isn't like
a sex free for all, like you know, go crazy.
This is like actually helping people deal with sexual trauma
and things, you know, keeping their marriages together and all
these things. And I think now they have like an
acceptance of it, which I appreciate very much. So yeah,
so it would be really hard if they just absolutely
hated it.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Remind me how long in SFW has been going on
ten years now, ten years, Wow, so she's had time
to adjust.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, they would never attend.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
But I want to know, when did you attend your
first sex party?
Speaker 3 (06:55):
What was it like for you?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
It has to be like at least like maybe twenty
twenty plus.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Was it easy?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Were you surprised me? I wish it had a bit
different than it was.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I mean I was traveling a lot for you know,
running Nylon and doing all the fashion week stuff, so
I was able to go to a lot of international
cities and see like their sex scenes and you know,
being bisexual and seeing the gay side of things and
the straight side of things, and I think there's a
lot of things that I saw there that I didn't like,
which is why, you know, when I created an SFW
kind of addressed some of those things, like women feeling
like property and women kind of being traded off within
(07:26):
swinger events, and like the lack of consent and you know,
being in a room and having someone touch you without
you know, you saying it's okay. Like people just weren't
having those content conversations at that time, right. So I
think a lot of my experiences were experiences where, you know,
there was one time I was I was drugged and
I was raped. There was one time where you know,
multiple times I was sexually assaulted. There was like a
(07:47):
lot of experiences that I was not comfortable with and
didn't have the language or the voice to say no,
and then felt a massive amount of guilt afterwards. You know,
it's like, oh, this is God punishing me for doing
these bad things, and like if only I did good things,
then I wouldn't be punished or God wouldn't hate me
so much, and I deserve this, you know. So I
think it took a long time to go through those
(08:09):
experiences and to realize what was wrong with those experiences
and how those things weren't inherently because I sinned, but
those things were just because it was poorly organized, and
like the people din't care about those things, So like,
let's create a space.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
That does care.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
So tell me a little bit more about like the
difference between an average sex party in in a SFW.
Like we read somewhere that in AFW has been called
the soul cycle of sex clubs. How does make you
feel like I'm a soul cycle girl through and through?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
So, Like, I think if you get you know, some
random like Craigslist or you know, fet life type party
and the invite looks like shitty and it doesn't look
very clean, or it's in a random space, you don't
know any of the people going, you have a certain
idea that it's unsafe or that it's dirty. But when
it's set up in a more packaged way, there's like
places where you can connect with people beforehand, there's like
(08:58):
a whole online community.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
There's all these extra.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Layers to make it feel more safe, and I think
that's where we differentiate from the traditional anything and everything
sex party. But there are really really good people who
have done great parties, and there's events that I go
to like I love Sanctum, and I've seen like really
great stuff come out of Kismet and other events that
are happening in the city and other places that do
it well. The play La is doing a phenomenal job,
so like there is like an element of people elevating
(09:23):
the space now, but I think early on when we
first started, there really wasn't an example of it. There
wasn't anything good out there in that way.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Okay, paint me a picture of what going to your
club is. Like Let's say someone's never been to a
play party. How do you explain it to them?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, I would say, like, you know, initially you're going
to come in, you'll have kind of the rules read
to you of like what the clubhouse rules are. We
keep them pretty much simple. Respect, hydrate, don't be a creeper,
love totally, you know, really trying to teach people to
not be over things tosscated at the events, don't take
drugs from strangers. Things that you feel people should know
but sometimes forget. When they're in playful environments, then there's
(09:56):
normally some sort of activity like usually games or something
we usually have like a truth or dir agenga and
stuff like that, or like things that people can do
initially before any of the performances start, would do erotic
sketching where members will come and like donate to like
you know, be the body that we're all sketching for
the night. Then around midnight there's usually a performance by
the Muses. The Muses, you know, do different types of performances.
(10:18):
Usually themes sometimes will be like around the specific theme
of the night, and that just kind of like excites
people and gets people kind of energized and excited about
you know what might come. Lights dim a bit past midnight,
people are usually like playing or connecting.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Yeah, always a bar.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
There's always, yeah, some sort of element that's there for
them as well.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Like I know because I've visited, but for someone who's
not there, you walk in, the room is open. Kind
of describe like the setting.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Yeah right now.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I mean like there's like multiple beds that are available
for people. Usually we like to have spaces that have
more private rooms as well, so you can find like
somewhere to thinak away to. We have an entire couple's
only sections, so you have to be coupled to go
into this one section where most of the play is happening,
and there's like three different themedrop rooms that will have
within the space for like special experiences.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Are there separate spaces for different types of kink?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yeah, so we have done events like that. With the
space that we have in Chelsea. We actually have like
a separate dungeon. It's like torture themed.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
So they have like one of those stretching devices that
stretches your body out, and they have like a queening
chair and crazy person cells and like a whole bunch
of other things that people can play with.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
Which is really fun.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Oh that is really fun.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Something I so appreciated about being at the sex party
was like, I think we had this conversation a little,
but I've never watched porn, so going to that sex
party was my first time seeing like live sex happen.
And I feel like, I know so many girlfriends who
have boyfriends that are addicted to porn and it's like
truly ruined their relationship. And again, like partners that have
watched a ton of porn think that that's how they're
(11:48):
supposed to do it.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
That's what we want.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
And I was like, Wow, if those people could just
like watch a sex party happen, and see like real
kind of love making, real people like doing this together.
I don't know, it just felt so much safer, so
much more connected, so much more human. So I really
think there's something there.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Yeah, And I do talk about this a lot if
you really consider you know, people in general, like on average,
maybeero point five percent of the population has seen people
have sex live, right, you know, like maybe they saw
one of their roommates having sex with someone next to
them in college or something, or they walked in on
someone having sex. Very very few people within the actual
population have that ability to like just watch people having
(12:31):
sex and seeing how everyday people.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Real people have to do it.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
So I think like the real benefit on the educational
side of this and why it does help people start
prioritizing pleasure is because they see what pleasure looks like
in real life couples, and they see what that you know,
sexual energy looks like in real life couples. A lot
of times people are like they're so like engaged or
so connected, they're so like in sync, Like how do
I get that? And it's because all you've watched this porn,
(12:55):
You're watching two people who don't know each other, who
are fucking there for the first day very rarely, or
you see like yeah, for a job for.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Money and like getting it out.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
You're seeing you know, Olympic level performers having sex. Now,
this is people who actually enjoy sex, really real people
who are doing it, who like really love it, and
people who are in love who are having sex, where
you are seeing a very different type of connection. Yeah,
and that longing for that connection to be able to
have that is a big driver for people as to
why they like then Okay, how do how do I
find a partner like this? How do I find someone
(13:23):
who's going to accept me for these things? How do
I find someone who's explorative and who's curious and who
wants to explore pleasure? And that really does change a
lot of people's direction, and change the direction in terms
of the friends they make, changes the direction in terms
of like the partners they to choose orho they end
up with. And you know, we have a lot of
couples who've come out of NSFW who've met there and
now are getting married and they have these great sex
(13:44):
lives because they have those first like you know, foundations
of like oh, I can talk about sex without feeling
weird about it, and I won't be judged if I
say I wanted to try something or I can watch
someone and be turned on by it without having to
do it myself and figure out if that's something I
might want to do. You know, it's very very different
from porn.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yeah, and I love that you bring up the couples
and I love to hear that people met there and
fell in love. Do you have like a favorite success
story or like something.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
I mean, there's definitely ones.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I mean, I definitely have friends who like tell me like, oh,
my whole friend group came from NSFW, Like I didn't
have friends before and now I have this whole group
of people that I go on vacations with and travel with.
So I think that aspect is huge, especially in a
time where people are having difficulty finding friends. I think
in terms of the couples, I see a lot of them,
Like there's just one coumble particular who like recently just
(14:32):
got married and you.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Get invited to a lot of weddings.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
I do.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Yeah, every I'm like it's kind of exciting though, Like
it is kind of exciting how many people you're bringing together, Like.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Is that one of those I want to do more
of that.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, I mean again, this was like going from selling
handbags and shoes to selling love and connection and pleasure
for people. I think, you know, I knew that it
would bring some benefits. Like a good friend of mine
was a mentor for a long time. She started this
company called Fishbowl. It was like big in the advertising
world for a while. Then she said, like, the biggest
success you'll have is when you're invited to weddings, like
(15:06):
because of those connections are made. Yeah, you can be
invited to like, oh, we just acquired this business, so
we're gonna have a party. But when you actually get
invited to a wedding of people that you introduced or
that you brought together, or that because of you, they
are connected, Like that's kind of.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
The biggest joy.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
So oh totally.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I've always seen that as like, yeah, like whatever I
want to do in my life, I want to make
sure that aspect is there, that connection is there, and
that's real.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
I do want to talk about the difficulties of running
this business, Like, again, a lot of people have misconceptions.
You know, you have your code of conduct, I know,
and you have all these rules in place, but like
what is maybe one of the more difficult elements of
this business.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
I mean, I think there's a couple of things to consider. One,
it's like we do work with people who are doing
sex work only fans and other things like that, and
you know, sometimes that does bring mental health challenges that
are unique, like bipolar disorder or borderline personality disorders, or
like people have experienced extreme amounts of trauma early on
in life and their approach to the spaces might not
(16:15):
always be positive. There are predatory people out there, There's
no doubt about it. You know, like every single person
knows someone who's experienced rape. Every single person knows someone
who's experienced you know, aggression or violence, or have been
in relationships where you know they can't get out, or
there's domestic abuse. So I think those are elements that
sometimes are attracted to places like this. People who want
to hurt people will find these places and will try
(16:37):
to infiltrate or try to come in and try to
do things. And that's why you need those safety measures
in place. That's why you need people policing the space
themselves and letting us know. But yeah, when you do
the type thing, that's what you're going to attract, and
then the other side of it, you're also attracting like
very wealthy people sometimes and you know, the behaviors of
wealthy people are very different from everyday people in terms
of what they're trying to get out of it or
(16:58):
what experience.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Talk to me a little bit more about the consent element.
How do you approach it?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
I mean, I think, like you know, couples can approach
it in their own way. If you're with a trusted
partner and you you know know and things like that,
it's a little bit easier. We do encourage partners to
have those conversations beforehand, to set some expectations, to give
their hard nos, what's not okay, what is okay, and
to have those talks before you come to tennis f W.
And don't surprise people when they're there. We've advised, you know,
(17:25):
members to make sure they let the people know exactly
where they're bringing them, because there has been times where
someone's like our first date sensf W. I had no
idea I was coming here, and now they're on a
first day at a sex club, and how do you manage.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
How do you manage something like that?
Speaker 4 (17:39):
That heart heavy scolding.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
If someone crosses a line.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Yeah, it's like you.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Put everything else at risk, like, so don't do that.
But in terms of consent, we talk about enthusiastic consent.
Enthusiastic consent is the idea that if it's not a
hell yes, it's a hell no. So you want to
verbalize and ask for what you you know, are into
it and what you want to do. We give people
advice and we do this event called send Nubes where
we talk about here's all the ways that you can
go through this, how to ask for sex, you know,
(18:05):
basically it's a full lesson on that, and it goes
into like, you know, how to approach things and how
to like build up excitement for things, and how to
ask the questions that will get you a better answer.
Also how to say no without harming someone and just
write someone and trying to be like an asshole about it,
and how to accept knows without being aggressive and being
(18:26):
like a poudy little bitch, like like we really try
to be like, hey, this is how we expect you
to behave try your best, like, yeah, people will make mistakes,
but like you know this will be better for you.
You'll have better outcomes and then you'll have a better
sex life, you'll get the sex that you want, but
you need to understand we have to have some set
rules for it, because.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
I think one of the things people have brought up
to me over and over again when I say sex
party is they're like, what about STDs? And I'm like,
I would assume someone going to a sex party is
going to be more on their p's and ques about
getting tested and knowing what's up. Like then someone who's
just like the last same amound be is.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
The person who gives a whole.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Bunch of people something press you.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Out of the party completely and then it's like, oh,
this person knowingly did this or this person didn't get
tested properly and then read this. So I think SDEs
are an active part of the conversation. I would say, like,
the one thing that I do find to be helping
with that is the awareness of PREP and the awareness
of PEP, like the fact that there are pills that
you can take you know when you have more risky
(19:27):
or sex right that will prevent you from getting most
at cities will vent you from getting HIV.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
You don't have to be on.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
A permanent prescription you can literally take it, like within
seventy two hours of any sort of exposure. You take
your little pill cocktail, and then you don't have any
of those things. So, like, I think there needs to
be more awareness around things like that, where it's like, yes,
use protection, you know, know the condoms that you like
to use, to use the things that you want, right,
but also keep in mind there is an alternative of like, Okay,
(19:52):
I did just go wild and crazy at the sex party.
Let me make sure I take my medicine so that
I don't have anything I don't know, And you can
get a prescription. They'll give you thirty days and automatic refills.
It costs like less than five dollars. It's generic, and
then you just have it in your pill cabinet. And
then after you go and do like your wild and
crazy thing, you take your six pills. Next day you
(20:15):
take two and you're good to go.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Don I want to talk about like how you really
become a member because I got lucky because we had
this interview and so we sent you an email. I
got to, you know, jump a couple of steps. But
if someone wants to become a member, what is that
process like and I've also heard some rumblings of like
an attractiveness scale.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Is there truth to that? What is that? Is that
a thing? Talk to me about all of that.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah, So we approve memberships based off of fourteen points
of attraction. So what we are looking at our responses
to questions like what is your relationship to sex? What
can you contribute to the community, What you're looking for,
what your preferences are, how you identify. But it's more
than just you know, gender identities, but like do you
identify as someone who's into ropes or who's into like
(21:02):
playful things or kink and other stuff, So we look
at that stuff. People provide their social media profiles so
we're able to see their profiles. Things we look for
on there is like circle of friends, like who are
you connected to? Are you just a loner or you
just like kind of by yourself or do you have
images where you know you have family around you or
other stuff?
Speaker 3 (21:18):
You like a social person?
Speaker 4 (21:19):
Yeah, if you're social in general.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
We look at career, so jobs to determine estimated amount
of how much you're making and stuff like that. We
also look at your travels to see if you're well
traveled and then we paid textual attention to things like
artists or artists endeavor so content creation or you're developing
a show, developing something yourself, like you're.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Trying to create something creative.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, you're in some sort of creative field. So we
look at those fourteen points and if you get nine,
then you're.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
In oh, nine out of fourteen.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah, and like personal hygiens one, like a general attractiveness,
Like right, physical attractiveness is one. Age is definitely another factor.
But yeah, if you get nine out of the fourteen,
then you get accepted in.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Okay, and this scale of attractiveness is inclusive of like
so many aspect everything.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yes, And there's also certain times that we've had where
we're like, okay, we feel like this is underrepresented within
the membership. So then we two special efforts of like Okay,
let's go on these type of podcasts, let's talk to
these type of people. Let's book this performer who will
like reflect on that audience better. Let's create an event
specifically for members who are within this category. And that
helps us like keep it very I think there's like
(22:22):
a benefit in having like a lot of diversity or
diverse voices within the membership itself, so it doesn't just
feel so one thing.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
I want to know what makes someone not get those
nine points? What is it about someone when.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
I get that some supporter, we can't have you in.
And now they've all become Trump supporters.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
So when we got to the end of the party
and we were talking about who we were voting for
for mayor, I was like, should I have not brought
up politics at the sex party?
Speaker 3 (22:53):
I was like, we had a.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Very no Trump allowed policy.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah, and it still stands, like, right, I started this
right when he was just selected, like the first time,
Like it was right around the time where it became like,
you know, more public and available for people. I remember
one of my first like conspirator letters was like because
of Trump, I've quit my job to focus on this belief.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Oh my god, we must sex at all costs.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
Expression conservativeness is not good a new rule where it's like,
all right, we can't one hundred say absolutely not because
they you know, they're.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Like musk, like I don't mind being in the room
with someone who has a different view than me, and
to me, I think like it's an exciting opportunity and
I completely understand why you would want to say no
to that group of people because you have to wonder,
why do you want to be in an inclusive space
if you're supporting someone who is explicitly not inclusive.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
And it's also like, I mean, I think there is
still that desire to be accepted, and especially in certain spaces,
like I don't think that it benefits to completely say no.
I think there is an opportunity to have different political
opinions and share a bed, but it's a complicated one.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Okay, we have to get away from politics and back
to sex, and I think they're one and the same personally.
I'm like, I need to have the same politics as
the person I'm sleeping with. But that's just me, yes, okay.
Speaking of rules, speaking of guidelines, speaking of getting into
the club, what's the age limit? Is there a top
and a bottom, like eighteen to anything?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yeah, so we're twenty one plus plus must be twenty
one or above. I would say the average age right
now is looking like thirty thirty one. We were at
twenty six for a bit and then.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Like people got older who initially joined.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
But now what we're starting to do is like as
the membership itself Agias we are trying to create more
events that are specifically for people within.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
A certain age range.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
So there isn't that much of an age gap from
the people that you're meeting out the space, and those
parties will most likely be focused around people up to
age twenty seven. And so if you're a blow age
twenty seven, it's kind of a party you can go
to specific for that. You can usually come to the
other ones. But I don't want to have an environment where, like,
you know, someone's like way too old and someone's way
too young. The younger person's brand new to the club.
That person's like senior and like has been doing it
(25:10):
for a while. Yeah, they can still come to the
other things. There might be people who are in their
forties and you know, going up to fifties. But again
it's just to make it more comfortable.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
So I heard you say play party, and I was
new to this language and this terminology because of course
I've just been throwing around sex party. What's the difference
between a sex party and a play party? Are they
interchangeable words?
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I mean, I think there's you know, negative connotations like
come with sex party. I think if you told your
mom you went to a play party, she'd be a
little bit more curious, right, what is that?
Speaker 4 (25:37):
What is a play party?
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Yeah, Like, oh, you know, and I think a play
party does have, you know, different ideas of what you
can do there. It's not just about sex. There might
be other activities or other things you can do and
engage in that are more playful, usually things around discovery,
around kink or BDSM or rope play or other stuff.
So like play parties kind of fall within that category.
Is like, Okay, I can go to a play party
(26:00):
have sex, you know. And I think one thing that
we are very big on when we talk about NSFW
is like we aren't a sex party. We're a party
where you can have sex, you know, and like really
kind of change that idea. Like seventy percent of people
who you know will go to some of the bigger
parties do not have sex. It's their first time watching
people do stuff, it's the first time seeing certain things,
so that is a big part of their experience, and
(26:22):
then other people do. But I think, you know, just
being a party first.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
And then adding on the other elements helps out.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Party first, sex second.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
When you're looking for a partner, sex partner life partner whatever.
Where do you place physical attractiveness on a personal scale?
Speaker 2 (26:55):
I see I've been very blessed by extremely attractive partners,
but it's not like, yeah, I have really pretty partners sometimes,
but it's not the main factor for me. Like I think,
like I'm very much in this place of I want
to create a family, I want to get my home,
I want.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
To like do these like check the box?
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, check these boxes as I get older, So I
think a lot of my thinking around partners right now
is like, Okay, like can I imagine you like cleaning
up diapers? Can I imagine you, like, do you do
you would you want to like take care.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Of a child at some dust?
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Where you want to do any of these things? Or
do you want kids? Yeah? Can we fight together?
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Well?
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Can we like live together? Can we like do these things?
And I was like married before, so I definitely had
that experience of like, you know, finding that partner, being
with someone. But it's about your priorities and where you
are in life and that's what's going to impact who
you find attractive or who you're interested in.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
And so how old were you when you got married?
And how is the divorce?
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Was it easy. Were you all on the same page.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
I was.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
I was twenty three when I got married.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
We had dated for a year.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
The six months anniversary our first date, she proposed to
me on the Eiffel Tower.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
She proposed to you.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
Yeah, And then it was.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Just like, well, this is great because like my parents
were already upset that I was dating and not getting married.
So it was just kind of like a speed run
to marriage. And then we got married, and we built
our company together at the time, and you know, worked
very well together for six years.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Six years wow.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Yeah. And then yeah, I think like I wasn't completely
honest in things or how I felt about things, or
being bisexual. I just felt it was just very easy
for me to just like turn off a certain part
of me. But then as I was like becoming thirty,
I was like, this is weird. Like I'm in this,
I'm in the fashion world, like everyone's gay, like everyone's
like open or whatever, and it doesn't feel normal to me.
(28:41):
And I want to live authentically. I want to be
who I am and not feel shamed by it or
ashamed of it. So yeah, after I came out, it
was kind of like it wasn't gonna work.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Anymore, so you kind of pulled the plug.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah, I mean I think it was like it was
a lot of challenges towards the end. I think it
was just things that was beyond either of our ability.
Like I wish I had the ten years of being
at NSFW to then look at that relationship again and
be like, actually, here's all the things that we could
do to prevent us from fucking this up, or prevent
us from like resenting each other or just like each other.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Like there's ways that we could do this.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
So I think like at the time, I just wasn't
ready for those types of conversations. And now, like looking back,
it's like, I wish I knew this stuff then, because
I feel like it would have been a different type
of relationship in life.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
You get together when you're twenty three, you're thirty, you're
a completely different person. Like that era of your life,
you're changing so much, you're becoming a completely new person.
Like it would be extremely difficult to navigate and to
navigate well. And I don't think any of us really
have the tools at that time, you know, to navigate
all of that. I kind of want to know, like,
(29:49):
where do you really see ANSFW going like I really
the way I see it as kind of someone new
to this scene and a bit of an outsider, is like,
I do feel like it's a really huge space. I
do feel like spaces like this are going to be
so important in the future, just when it comes to
like technology and separation, like when you think about in
(30:11):
cells and when you think about women who can't find
satisfying sex lives, like I do think people are having
a difficult time having and finding fulfilling, pleasurable sex. So like,
where do you see this going in the future and
how do you want to impact really.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Really, I mean, I think like we've now now that
we're coming into our tenth year, the big conversation is
around how do we expand how do we provide this
to more people and develop more of these spaces so
that the community does become more global and we have
more of a connected group. A big focus for that
is around the franchise model, So we are creating kind
of educational tapes to teach people how to host these
(30:49):
events and how to deal with conflicts and deal with
things like that, and we plan to make that open
to existing members who want to start their own parties
and we take like a franchise fee from that of
percentage of ticket sales. But they're able to represent the
NSFW brand in their cities and their communities. They're able
to build a business around it, and we're able to
pry them the tools to do that. We have a
(31:09):
partner in London who's been very interested in that, so
we're looking at that one first. La is probably going
to be our next secondary city that will start hosting events.
And but I think that's the best model for us,
where it's like, here's everything that we've learned, here's everything
that we've developed, and here's the community already built in.
Build it as your own, like go off and like
start creating these communities, start creating the spaces, and the
money will come. Like it does sell well and people
(31:32):
do sign up and join. So I think that's our
route of building this out. How do we make it
as you know McDonald's as possible in a way where
it's like, how do we make this so that people
can sign up, decide to become a franchisee, run their
own spaces and it's part of the greater community.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Do you feel like you are a sex expert like,
do you feel like you have good sex advice?
Speaker 4 (31:52):
I do, I feel like.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Advice or someone like trying to kind of find them cells,
find their desire, figure out what they find pleasurable. Like
what's your advice for someone to sort of start this journey?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
I mean, I think it's seeking out the spaces, seeking
out the communities, and looking for things. So you know,
a lot of cities have these types of experiences and
these types of places that exist. A lot of times
you need a partner or a couple to go, but
definitely building on that, there's great apps as well, Like
Field has done a great job of kind of bringing
people together who are a little bit more playful. So
I think it's really about finding people like that is
(32:29):
kind of the first step for anyone who wants to
be more sexually explortive, and you know, connecting and figuring
out how to go on dates or how to connect
parties or how to go to events together, and that'll
help kind of lead you on a proper path.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Before I let you go, I want to know what
your thoughts are on gen Z and the whole celibacy
movement in general, Like, what are your thoughts on gen
Z having less sex.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
I mean, I shed tears for gen Z sometimes. I think, like,
I find it so sad that millennials are the less
freaks generation. Hoping it's not as so common. I would say,
like within gen Z, though, there is a difference between
sex and the experiences of sex. So I think there
is a growing amount of people in gen Z who
are attracted to BDSM, who are going into kinky type
(33:12):
things or bondage or dom subtype relationships and doing all
that without having sex. Like they're very much so exploring
a lot of like the intricacies of sex and the
other elements of sex that exist without actually having sex.
So I think there is an interesting aspect there.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Because you always have to kind of ask the question
what is sex? Yeah, and like is sex for you
kind of traditional biblical P and V situation or is
sex for you just like stimulation?
Speaker 3 (33:38):
You know?
Speaker 1 (33:38):
And so in my time like being celibate, every time
somebody would tell me they were celibate too, I'd be like, Okay,
but what are your rules?
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Right?
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Do you know what I mean? Like what celibacy to you?
Is it everything?
Speaker 1 (33:48):
But you know?
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Or yeah?
Speaker 2 (33:50):
I mean I again, I have this hope for this
healing period, or at least coming to it. I don't
think we as a society are going to survive if
people aren't forming relationships, having kids and are you know,
kind of like bringing on the next generation. I think
we face a lot of challenges, so there has to
be a growing desire to move more towards people finding
(34:10):
these relationships and people connecting and this loneliness that people
are experiencing being reduced.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Have you ever considered celibacy or has that been a
piece of your journey.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
I mean, I've definitely done celibacy over the past ten years,
certain periods of time. I think we need.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Resets totally, and that's all it is.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Yeah, we break Like I think there's two ways of
thinking about relationships. One it's like you break up. That'sest
way to get over the last relationship is get into
your next relationship. Get into bed with someone else as
quickly as possible. You're gonna get over them quickly.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
And the second one is like, take a pause, totally reflect,
I'm like, what works, what didn't work? Why didn't it work? Yes,
And it's okay to like give your body time to
be alone and to kind of recollect your energy. There's
a lot of energy that goes out during sex. There's
a lot of energy that goes out in relationships. We're
giving up a lot of ourselves. Yeah, so when we
(34:59):
have that moment of pause to really reflect and take
back those elements of ourselves, we'd have to respect that
and we have to consider it as part of our
healing process for relationships, as part of our ability to
kind of like move on and to move on to
the next thing. And I don't think people really take
enough time to consider that sex is an emotional thing.
(35:20):
Sex is an energy exchange. Sex is a lot more
than just the activity of sex. So, like, if you
are active, active, active, if you aren't taking those moments
to take a pause, then you know, what are you
active for? Is it just the action of numbers and
getting as many numbers as possible. Is it the action
of actually trying to form a real connection with someone,
to form a real relationship, or is it the actions
of someone who is just like letting themselves kind of
(35:43):
go with the flow and just be like, Okay, well
this is fine because they want this, And it's like
it's not really my decision.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
I'm just like in it.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
It's been a bit of an escape for me before sex,
Like it's just a way for me to just like
completely clock out mentally.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
And even sexual experiences, you know, in different in different spaces,
Like I still really enjoy anonymous sex where like I'm
not known and like talking to just go into a
space and like, you know, stuff happens, you know. Yeah,
I think you learn how to express sex in multiple ways,
but I think it's very important that celibacy be considered one.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
Of the ways that you express sex.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
I agree, because this is about you taking control, taking
the moment, and sex not being the control.
Speaker 4 (36:22):
In your life totally.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
It's something that you enjoy and experience and you control
in your life.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
I'm so thankful Daniel invited me to the party. It
was clearly a sacred space where people were able to
heal and express and find collective ecstasy, and I felt
really lucky to be a part of that, even if
I didn't want to kiss that girl's boyfriend. I'm curious
to know if any listeners have had experiences with sex parties.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Colin.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
If you have any thoughts, questions, or stories, our phone
number is five one eight eight three seven six two
three seven.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
I'll talk to y'all next week.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Boy Sover is a production of iHeart Podcasts I'm your Host, Hopewordard.
Our executive producers are Christina Everett and Julie Pinero. Our
supervising producer is Emily Meronoff. Our assistant producer is Logan Palau.
Engineering by Bahid Fraser and mixing and mastering by Abu Zafar.
(37:36):
If you liked this episode, please tell a friend and
don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to Boy Sober
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get
your favorite shows
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.