June 29, 2023 • 26 mins
Marisa and Steven kick off the Brand New podcast with the first episode! They share why they came together to host this new podcast, and then dive into the show’s “Hot Topic” with a candid post-mortem on Cannes Lions. Was it really all about AI or was there something more to the festival this year? Plus, they answer the “What’s On Your Mind?” question and share valuable advice for early career professionals. Send us your questions at ideas@brand-new.com
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hi, and welcome to the very first episode of Brand New,
a brand new podcast from the iHeart Podcast Network and
Brand New Labs. I'm Marissa Thalberg.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
And I'm Stephen wolf Data.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
And we're so excited to be here doing this together,
not only as fellow working executives in this industry, but
as friends. So shall we start with what's new?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
We've been talking about doing this for a while and
it's finally here. Wow, what's new? There's so much to
talk about.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I think what's new is this podcast? Maybe we should
just make that our topic this week. So let's just
talk about why we wanted to do this together. I
think it's a good idea to share that.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I think people want to know. I think people want
to hear why what is this important for yours?
Speaker 1 (00:45):
You and I are both people who really connect in
with the industry. We love creating connections with our peers,
with people who are now following potentially in our footsteps,
and as people that think through the lens of brands,
we're always thinking about where's the white space? And I
think what occurred to both of us is there are
(01:06):
a lot of interview formats and they're amazing, but what
about just real dialogue, real dialogue between two people who
aren't doing it as armchair pundits, who aren't doing it
to sell anything. We just really are deeply immersed and
care about the world of team right, technology, entertainment, advertising, media, marketing.
We care about that and we don't always agree. That's
(01:28):
the fun part.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
That keeps it real, that's the real talk that keeps
it interesting. I feel like you're hitting on such an
important point, which is how do you actually have the
banter and the debate. But we're not trying to sell anything.
We are not trying to hawk a product or something
like that. What we really do is there's so many
folks out there that are starky that are tearing things down,
and I think because we love our industries, we want
(01:50):
to build it up. That's right, And how do you
really help the next generation of talent that are coming
to this business at such a chaotic time. I mean, obviously,
coming back from can it is just AI everywhere, all
of these kind of doom and gloom scenarios. I just
feel that it's really important for people to hear real,
authentic conversation and we're not going to always agree because
you're going to come at this from all your experience
(02:12):
working at these you know, incredible companies, Fortune one hundred,
all of your experience as a brand, as a marketer,
as a creative, and I'm going to come at it
from a very different factor, right I started in finance,
and I worked in tech for a long time, and
then of course you know media and advertising and being
an entrepreneur. I feel like that kind of hodgepodge of
experiences and very diverse network of folks that we've worked with.
(02:32):
Hopefully we could provide some type of insights that are
going to help lift up the next generation.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
That last point is really important because I think you
and I both perhaps distinguished ourselves by caring about communities
and lifting people up. You're the most one of the
most devoted people I know to being a voice to
the Latina community, I've really tried to have a voice
for women in business and particularly working moms. What I
want our friends to expect when they tune in to
listen is that we're always going to talk about what's
(02:56):
on our minds and a hot topic every week. But
then we're always going to ask what's on your minds
and try to make this an interactive conversation. So should
we start with our first hot topic.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Let's get into it, eh.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
So, I think the hot topic inevitably for episode one
is coming out of Can. Stephen, you just came back
from the Can Lions, the International Festival of Creativity in
the South of France this year. I didn't get to go.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Well, in all fairness, you kind of had a big
new job. So you're actually doing the work, which is
a really interesting perspective because lord knows, probably people have
so much fomo.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I had some fomo I did.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
But that's kind of the critique that marketers get. You
have to do the work right, So kudos to you
for actually doing the work.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Look, I think this is what we should start by
debating a little bit, because it's something that comes up
pretty often each year and the run up to CAN is.
First of all, is Can the right thing for our industry?
And I think there are pros and cons to it.
I mean there are some real benefits.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Beyond Rose, right, beyond just hanging out south of France.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Well, the optics are definitely the Rose all day and
the yachts and the expense are going to the South
of France. So what's your point of view, the right
thing for our industry today.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
No, Look, it's hard because who doesn't want to go
to the South of France. You see everyone posting pictures
in the feed, and there's music and parties and all
that kind of stuff. That's all great. I think that
is really one perspective. A different perspectives is actually the
work that's being done in the South of France when
you actually have this congregation of executives and just everyone
(04:32):
in the industry. Again we talk about team technology, entertainment, advertising,
media and marketing. That convergence of all those vectors in
one place, you actually get a lot of work done,
and you're able to meet with everyone, and it's all
senior people. You are able to have the CEOs of
major media companies, senior executives across the tech industry, and
obviously celebrities. I mean, when you see that convergence, it's
(04:54):
actually incredibly impactful and productive to have everyone there for
a week, and certainly there's a lot of fun to
be had, but there's real work being done. My issue
is are we really talking about creativity? Are we really
kind of seeing the work? I Mean, Mark Pritcher talks
about this Antnio Lucio talks about this. People don't even
go into the pallet anymore, if we're being honest, because
it's so overprogrammed and everyone is doing kind of their
(05:16):
own thing. You go to Meta Beach, or you go
to Google, or you go to you know, now Netflix
is there. You know, Jeremy Gorman had an incredible layout
on the top of the JW. Marriott. You see all
of this programming, and it's really hard to kind of
focus on the work and really get inspiration around the ideas.
And that's hopefully what it should be about.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
I do think Ken winds up being different things for
different people at this point, based upon where you are
in your career and what, as you said, like which
one of the vectors of team if you will, are
you coming at it from. I agree. I think it
is unique because it's global, so this convocation of people
from absolutely every part of these converging industries that you'd
(05:57):
want to meet with. But you know, I think in reality,
making sure that when you come back home you're bringing
back the value to the organization is really really important.
And how much of this is about winning awards and
how much of this is about actually using the time
to be together to get stuff done. I know I've
always tried to do that. But you said something interesting
(06:20):
to me when we were talking on the phone the
other day, and I wanted to pick up on that
because you said being there was also a moment of
reflection for you. You know, that's more of a personal
insight that you don't necessarily take back to your company.
But I've found that too when I've gone in the past,
So talk about that.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
It's interesting because the whole idea of CAN being global,
it's an international festov of creativity, but I spoke with
numerous folks, even executives at CAN Lyons that are running
the festival, and it really has not been that global. Actually,
American presence and power and impact and influence have crowded
out a lot of the global elements of what CAN
(06:58):
used to be. And so if you think about it,
it's all the American tech companies, right, it's all the
media companies, and so being Latino and trying to have
a different vector, a different perspective, how do you actually
bring in, you know, kind of all the incredible creativity
coming from Latin America or obviously think about how important
Asia is you're not really getting that same kind of
perspective from other places around the world, from Africa to
(07:18):
the Middle East, you name it. And so it was
just very interesting that I think there is a beginning
kind of pull back from being so American dominated and
we're trying to bring that global perspective.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Okay, well, straight ahead, we're going to talk about hot
topics coming out of can Stephen. You said that last
year it was one thing. This year it's a little different.
I have my take on what it was, So don't
say AI.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Okay, we're not going to play the Rose drinking game.
Everyone got too drinking because I was mentioned so much,
so I hope it's something else.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
I wasn't going to say AI.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Good good, and we're back for the deeper dive in
this week's hot topic. All right, Marisa, you're promise me
that it's not going to be AI. So what is
the true hot topic for this year's camp.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
This is my non Rose influenced take, since I was
back here in the good old United States working as
I was observing it. But what I thought was very
interesting to read about is the fact that as those
of us who've been in years past really felt the
presence of purpose in every single conversation, and purpose was
(08:31):
starting to become almost so weighty and possibly, dare I say,
a bit divorced from the purpose itself of the companies
for which we work. And of course that kind of
creativity was really lauded, but there is I could feel
a bit of a course correction happening, and I spoke
about this last year, so I have to say I
(08:53):
was pretty happy to read about the fact that there
were now people, whether it was advising the jury who
are actually judging the work, to say, hey, it doesn't
all need to be about politics this year. It doesn't
all need to be just about greater societal work, which
God knows we all want to use our platforms for
(09:14):
greater good, but it needs to come back to the
commercial purpose of the work. And I think that's right.
I think that where it all makes sense for boards,
for CEOs, for investors is when you can do well
by doing good and you can connect whether it's ESG
or the greater societal good that you can use your
platform of a company for. When it's really plugged back
(09:37):
into why you exist as a brand or a company
or a service or product, that's when it makes sense,
and I've really tried to practice that as a CMO.
It's something I felt really passionately about at Low's, at
Taco Bell and my new role, and I just thought
that bit of a course correction made sense because we
are not purely in the business of art. We're in
(09:58):
the business of art meeting commerce. I think finally there
was a little bit of a wake up call the
can Lions. Yes it's the International Festival of Creativity, but
in this commercial world and we have to bring the
art and commerce together and purpose needs just be a
little more closely connected that way. That's my point of view.
What do you think.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Look, I feel at the end of the day, if
you're running a for profit enterprise, it has to be
about growing your business. I started my career in finance,
investment banking, and you know, it's interesting now to see
that there's a lot of venture capital and private equity
in CANDE, right, and so I feel like all eyes
are looking at the people that are here, and it
(10:38):
can't just be about the ad. It can't just be
about kind of a slogan the brand. When it's connected
to purpose, there is this authenticity through line that all
these things should be in sync. When the CEO is
trying to talk about why should investors invest in my business?
Why should consumers buy my products? It is going to
(11:01):
be tied to purpose. But I feel like it's understanding
the why, the how, and the what. I think a
lot of people get that order in the sequencing of
that confused. Ultimately, your why has to be I mean,
again classic Simon Sinek, it has to be something that's
bigger than you, something that we all can relate to.
How you're doing that. I feel like that is going
to be certainly connected to, you know, your unique value proposition,
(11:24):
your reasons to believe in classic you know, marketing speak,
and then ultimately like the what, like what is it
that you're going to be offering, whether it's a product
or service for me? Purpose is really the connectivity of
all those things. I always talk about Ikey Guy, that
Japanese perspective of understanding what you love, what you're good at,
what does the world need, and what you can get
paid for, and the intersection of all four of those
(11:45):
vectors is one's purpose.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Maybe more American companies need to use a little bit
of Japanese philosophy to think about this.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
But I mean everyone should know they're ikey guy, not
like an ikey guy, right like, not like, oh this
guy's hitting on me and he's creepy.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Oh not that kind of ikey guy.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
It's ikey iki gai itchy guy.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
See, we just uncovered one of the problems of audio.
We need to spell it out. Okay. Now, I think
that's great because I believe where it all started to
go a little perhaps too far, was in a way
it's arguably easier. Maybe this is a controversial thought to
make beautiful work about something deeply societal and emotional. But
(12:29):
then when you think about what our industry is really
oriented around is how do you do really incredibly disruptive
work that moves consumers to behave and that is connected
to the bottom line of a company. To your point,
so I think there's plenty of room. What's the saying,
do well to do good? Yes, but it just tests
to all be plugged in a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
The reality is there's no better place to really convene
with every single executive and leader in the industry. Maybe
the can Film Festival gets all the publicity, ken lyons
is where the business is getting done. And you actually
increasingly see so many different entertainers and celebrities coming to
can perspecially for that reason. I mean Kevin Hart was
the Entertainer of the Year. Well Kevin has you know,
(13:13):
his global multi platform entertainment and consumer products company Heartbeat.
Everyone from Asa Ray and Liza. I mean, you see
all these different types of folks convening here because they're
getting work done. They're getting business done. But I think
for us, where folks can tear down the industry and
things I can, we're trying to build it up. I
think the best thing is that we actually get to
meet with all of our friends and we actually have
(13:35):
time to connect because this is a beautiful community and
you know, maybe we just need to not have so
many panels where we're kind of speaking to ourselves a bit.
I think what people really want is that space, the
networking opportunity to just meet, catch up and actually share, Hey,
this is what I'm working on or I need some
help with this. That's what I love about our community.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah, networking with the emphasis on the work in network
to bring it back and create the value add for
the expense of going.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
First off, I think it's so important to talk about
how potentially we've jumped the shark and a lot of
these things. There is a true backlash that's happening, especially
on Wall Street in the investor community. I mean ESG,
which is you know, environmental, sustainable and governance practices. Having
a whole basket of stocks that now were tracked for
ESG causes a lot of investors are turning their back
(14:25):
on that.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Are they turning their back or they're just trying to
make sure that it ladders up though to a benefit, I.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Would say investors have kind of called bullshit on ESG.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
That makes me nervous.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
There's a real backlash because they don't feel that it
is truly driving the business. They feel like it was
almost like this kind of like what a lot of
marketers were doing in Camp with AI. They're just slapping
the label of ESG on it. It's really not rooted
in the business, and you hit upon something which is
really powerful around purpose. Richard Dixon, who's the president and
CEO of Mattel, was in Ken talking about certainly barbieing
(14:57):
kind of the evolution of Mattel, But he had a
great ques, which is evolution makes a brand relevant, but
purpose makes a brand immortal, but I would come at
it as purpose needs to be tied to, you know,
kind of the why, the how, and the what of
that brand of that business.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Right now, I'm going to push back with you a
little bit push back well on the ESG being rejected.
I haven't experienced that. I mean, having come out of
big public company roles. I think actually an interesting way
where the fire has been lit on companies to do
more on ESG than they're doing is surprisingly from the
investor community, and so you see that pressure and maybe
(15:34):
there's a little bit of the course correction. I don't
see that changing, and thank goodness, because without that we
won't make any progress. I just think when you put
it in the context of can the International Festival of
Creativity that we want to see work where you can
understand if it is about quote purpose, where I could
(15:56):
understand without even seeing a brand logo, how that purpose
connects to the brand, to the company.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
This is a real, real issue because when you have
folks like Warren Buffett rejecting ESG at Berkshire Hathaway, right,
that means that you know, one of the most savvious
and most successful investors of all time is saying no
to something like this. I think there's something there, but
I agree, it's not like throwing the baby out with
the bathwater. And when you think of ESG, how is
(16:23):
it really integrated into the company. Not every company is
going to be able to say that authentically. And I
think what you've done either of places like Taco, Bell, Lows, whatever,
se like it's really trying to understand how do you
incorporate these kind of things?
Speaker 1 (16:35):
I agree. I think the other interesting thing that I
just want to touch on before we wrap up our
hot topic for this first episode is the idea that
our industry is fickle.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Go on? In what way are we fickled.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
With what we think is important?
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Is this the real talk?
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Well, it's the real talk about how do we discern
between a fast moving world and jumping on board versus
and I as a marketer, this is always always the
dance between I don't want to be left behind? But
am I just chasing shiny new toys? Last year, everything
you know and I felt that pressure as a CMO
(17:15):
was about the metaverse and this year you're saying no
one was even talking about it. AI seems like a
true revolution. But are we going to look back next
year and no one's talking about AI. Probably not, but
I think it kind of forces us to be reflective
and thoughtful about what are the perennial issues that we
(17:38):
have as business leaders, as brand stewards, as company leaders,
and just watch out that we don't look like we
all convene and every year it's like a different fad
versus a genuine changing tide in our business.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
No, for sure. I mean this is something where across
every industry, understanding the difference between signal and noise is paramount,
and there's a lot of noise in this industry. And
I think that is the challenge. Because we're always skating
to where the puck wants to be. We need to
understand how there's a difference between kind of a fat
and something that is a shift. Just to be clear,
(18:13):
AI is not new. When I started at AK of
my technologies in nineteen ninety nine, which came out of
you know, the lack for computer science at MIT, we
were using machine learning. Artificial intelligence has been around since
the nineteen fifties, right, It was actually coined in nineteen
fifty six, So this is not new, but a lot
of technologies you really need to wait until there's a
consumer application where it really starts to go mainstream. And
(18:36):
what you see is things are kind of overhyped in
the short term, but they are under hyped in the
long term. And this, to be clear, is a platform shift.
So the same way that it was the year of
mobile for like a decadel until the iPhone came out, I.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Was just going to say that I remember that every
year when I was at the Yesterday Latter Companies as
head of digital, it was the year of mobile and
the year and it wasn't until it was So I
think that's right. I think to sum it up, what
we agree can continues to maybe have a little bit
of froth associated to it, but a lot of value.
(19:13):
And if anything happened this year to get us a
little closer to remembering it is the intersection of art
and commerce with purpose being purposeful. That feels like a
good thing to me. So up next, we're going to
do something very important to us for every episode, right Stephen,
which is that we just talked about what's on our minds,
but this is about making sure we also talk about
what's on your minds.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Orsa each week, We're going to be putting a spotlight
on our listeners. What's on your mind? I mean, Marsa,
you and I have been helping develop talent, nurture talent
for many, many years, maybe decades, But the reality is
we care about lifting up the next generation of talent.
And I've been doing a lot of things where we
spotlight different talent that may not get the recognition, you know,
(20:03):
whether it's diverse talent, women, you name it. But we're
really passionate about doing that. And I think you've been
doing this as well through all of your mentoring and
nurturing new talent. You started an organization called Executive Moms,
so you know when we have this week's question where,
by the way, please send your questions to ideas at
brandashnew dot com. What's this week's question?
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Well, I think you and I are both really whole
people in the sense that we're not afraid to talk
about our lives to our colleagues or employees. That's something
that when I founded Executive Moms over twenty years ago,
became a big part of my own personal brand, if
you will, in making other colleagues, including women and young moms,
(20:45):
feel like it's okay to have that integration, and so
it only seemed appropriate. I mean, we're going to get
lots of good questions, I know, in the future, to
our social channels, to our email. But I wanted to
ask my daughter, who my oldest daughter is a new executives.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
In our industry, in our industry or is.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
It not even a year and she is brand new
in the industry? And I thought, what, so, which daughter
is this? This is Hannah? And I think Avery, who knows,
may follow in her footsteps, but she's got another year
of high school left. But Hannah's out there, my.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Kid on the younger side, you know, so your kids
are younger, they're going to have to get mentored by you.
They've got a.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Little bit more time. They're being mentored in soccer right
now by their dad, right Steven. That's so for Hannah,
I asked her, what would you want to know from
people like Stephen and me? And she had, if I
may say so in a mom humble brag, a really
smart question. So here's our question of the week. What's
one piece of information you wish you knew starting out
(21:44):
as a marketer. Fair question for someone who's just starting
out in the world of brand and consulting and strategy
and media and tech, which she is. So I'll punt
it over to you to start. What would be your answer,
one piece of advice or information you wish you knew
starting out.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
It's so funny because I feel like a lot of
folks in this industry know me from either working at
publics when you're young, you know kind of all these
different marketing stints. But I feel like I had a
whole other life because I started my career in finance,
and I was fortunate enough to start in investment banking
and private equity, and it was such a crash course.
I mean to have this Dominican kid coming from money
(22:23):
or a Mount Vernon who didn't know anything about Wall Street,
to kind of be thrust into that world. That's really
where I learned about the foundations of business, understanding how
to build a financial model, to understand an income statement,
a balance sheet, a cashflow statement, And I feel like
understanding business and finance at the most fundamental level was
the best preparation for me to eventually go into any
(22:46):
of the industries that we talk about, whether it was tech, entertainment, advertising, media,
or marketing. So I would recommend anyone starting out, especially Hannah,
understand the business. You cannot have show business without the business.
And I feel like if you are a marketer that's
aspiring to be successful in this industry, ultimately, when you
get to the top, like Marissa, you're going to be
(23:07):
in the c suite and you will not have credibility
talking to a CEO, talking to a CFO, managing a
P and L, running a budget if you do not
understand the fundamentals of finance and business.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
I wish I had gotten that advice. It's really good advice.
And we all have our insecurities and our feeling that
we have an Achilles heel. I mean, the idea of
imposter syndrome is something that exists because we think it's
unique to us, and yet everyone has it. And I'll
put my female perspective on it. This is something that
I think women tend to really struggle with as we
(23:37):
rise further up the ranks. I think that's great advice.
And my only additive piece is that the world is
changing so quickly. I've done so many different things in
my career, none of which I think I could have
really predicted that. I believe that the best thing is
to be a critical thinker and to learn how to
connect dots. To me, that's more of an underlying theme
(24:00):
and success the necessarily the vocational expertise, because what is
the vocational expertise anymore in a world that's shifting so quickly.
So for me, I want to see people who can
think and who can demonstrate that clarity of as I said,
connecting dots, connecting ideas and finding novel smart solutions to
(24:22):
your point connected to an end business benefit. So I
hope that helps well.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
By the way, what I love about that is what
you are doing is you're future proofing the next generation
of talent because if you think about how literally we're
just at the dawn of the AI era, every single brand,
every single industry will be impacted by this, and you know,
I think people will certainly get sick of talking about AI,
and eventually the technology will become invisible if you do
(24:48):
not understand how to think. I mean literally, the most
important thing is something like CHATGBT. It's actually asking smart questions.
It's all about the prompt, right, and so now you're
going to see the word prompt kind of proliferate everywhere.
How to be a critical thinker and to use these tools,
because that's all they are, their tools. But if you
understand how to really ask more questions, that's going to
(25:08):
be the key.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Well, to use a cliche to end us up. The
one constant we know is change and our kids, certainly
your kids can't imagine that we grew up as kids
without Google. So now we'll see what the next generation things.
But that's it for episode one. I think we covered
a lot of ground.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
What do you think this was great? I mean, look,
we're just kicking this off. There's going to be a
lot more real talk. We're going to have a lot
more banter. We're going to invite a lot of our
friends from very different walks of life. Part of the
whole spirit of brand New is really having brand new voices,
brand new perspectives. Agree, we love our industry, but obviously
the same kind of folks keep on getting featured or interviewed.
(25:44):
The reality is we need to get fresh, young voices
to also shine a light on them, and so I
think that's really one of the main objectives that I
want to have with this podcast.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Well, hey, we may not be the youngest, but we're
definitely fresh.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Steven you're certainly fresh.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
And I'm excited to keep this banter with you. So
don't forget to send us your questions and thoughts to
ideas at brandashnew dot com. If you like this content,
don't forget to follow us at the Brand New Podcast
wherever you listen to your podcast so you never miss
an episode.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
And leave a rating comment anything on Apple podcast hol
us how much you like the content that will help
us spread the word and feed that algorithm. So join
us next time for What's brand New?
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Thanks so much for joining us. Episode one done
Hi, and welcome to the very first episode of Brand New,
a brand new podcast from the iHeart Podcast Network and
Brand New Labs. I'm Marissa Thalberg.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
And I'm Stephen wolf Data.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
And we're so excited to be here doing this together,
not only as fellow working executives in this industry, but
as friends. So shall we start with what's new?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
We've been talking about doing this for a while and
it's finally here. Wow, what's new? There's so much to
talk about.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I think what's new is this podcast? Maybe we should
just make that our topic this week. So let's just
talk about why we wanted to do this together. I
think it's a good idea to share that.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I think people want to know. I think people want
to hear why what is this important for yours?
Speaker 1 (00:45):
You and I are both people who really connect in
with the industry. We love creating connections with our peers,
with people who are now following potentially in our footsteps,
and as people that think through the lens of brands,
we're always thinking about where's the white space? And I
think what occurred to both of us is there are
(01:06):
a lot of interview formats and they're amazing, but what
about just real dialogue, real dialogue between two people who
aren't doing it as armchair pundits, who aren't doing it
to sell anything. We just really are deeply immersed and
care about the world of team right, technology, entertainment, advertising, media, marketing.
We care about that and we don't always agree. That's
(01:28):
the fun part.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
That keeps it real, that's the real talk that keeps
it interesting. I feel like you're hitting on such an
important point, which is how do you actually have the
banter and the debate. But we're not trying to sell anything.
We are not trying to hawk a product or something
like that. What we really do is there's so many
folks out there that are starky that are tearing things down,
and I think because we love our industries, we want
(01:50):
to build it up. That's right, And how do you
really help the next generation of talent that are coming
to this business at such a chaotic time. I mean, obviously,
coming back from can it is just AI everywhere, all
of these kind of doom and gloom scenarios. I just
feel that it's really important for people to hear real,
authentic conversation and we're not going to always agree because
you're going to come at this from all your experience
(02:12):
working at these you know, incredible companies, Fortune one hundred,
all of your experience as a brand, as a marketer,
as a creative, and I'm going to come at it
from a very different factor, right I started in finance,
and I worked in tech for a long time, and
then of course you know media and advertising and being
an entrepreneur. I feel like that kind of hodgepodge of
experiences and very diverse network of folks that we've worked with.
(02:32):
Hopefully we could provide some type of insights that are
going to help lift up the next generation.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
That last point is really important because I think you
and I both perhaps distinguished ourselves by caring about communities
and lifting people up. You're the most one of the
most devoted people I know to being a voice to
the Latina community, I've really tried to have a voice
for women in business and particularly working moms. What I
want our friends to expect when they tune in to
listen is that we're always going to talk about what's
(02:56):
on our minds and a hot topic every week. But
then we're always going to ask what's on your minds
and try to make this an interactive conversation. So should
we start with our first hot topic.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Let's get into it, eh.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
So, I think the hot topic inevitably for episode one
is coming out of Can. Stephen, you just came back
from the Can Lions, the International Festival of Creativity in
the South of France this year. I didn't get to go.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Well, in all fairness, you kind of had a big
new job. So you're actually doing the work, which is
a really interesting perspective because lord knows, probably people have
so much fomo.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I had some fomo I did.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
But that's kind of the critique that marketers get. You
have to do the work right, So kudos to you
for actually doing the work.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Look, I think this is what we should start by
debating a little bit, because it's something that comes up
pretty often each year and the run up to CAN is.
First of all, is Can the right thing for our industry?
And I think there are pros and cons to it.
I mean there are some real benefits.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Beyond Rose, right, beyond just hanging out south of France.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Well, the optics are definitely the Rose all day and
the yachts and the expense are going to the South
of France. So what's your point of view, the right
thing for our industry today.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
No, Look, it's hard because who doesn't want to go
to the South of France. You see everyone posting pictures
in the feed, and there's music and parties and all
that kind of stuff. That's all great. I think that
is really one perspective. A different perspectives is actually the
work that's being done in the South of France when
you actually have this congregation of executives and just everyone
(04:32):
in the industry. Again we talk about team technology, entertainment, advertising,
media and marketing. That convergence of all those vectors in
one place, you actually get a lot of work done,
and you're able to meet with everyone, and it's all
senior people. You are able to have the CEOs of
major media companies, senior executives across the tech industry, and
obviously celebrities. I mean, when you see that convergence, it's
(04:54):
actually incredibly impactful and productive to have everyone there for
a week, and certainly there's a lot of fun to
be had, but there's real work being done. My issue
is are we really talking about creativity? Are we really
kind of seeing the work? I Mean, Mark Pritcher talks
about this Antnio Lucio talks about this. People don't even
go into the pallet anymore, if we're being honest, because
it's so overprogrammed and everyone is doing kind of their
(05:16):
own thing. You go to Meta Beach, or you go
to Google, or you go to you know, now Netflix
is there. You know, Jeremy Gorman had an incredible layout
on the top of the JW. Marriott. You see all
of this programming, and it's really hard to kind of
focus on the work and really get inspiration around the ideas.
And that's hopefully what it should be about.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
I do think Ken winds up being different things for
different people at this point, based upon where you are
in your career and what, as you said, like which
one of the vectors of team if you will, are
you coming at it from. I agree. I think it
is unique because it's global, so this convocation of people
from absolutely every part of these converging industries that you'd
(05:57):
want to meet with. But you know, I think in reality,
making sure that when you come back home you're bringing
back the value to the organization is really really important.
And how much of this is about winning awards and
how much of this is about actually using the time
to be together to get stuff done. I know I've
always tried to do that. But you said something interesting
(06:20):
to me when we were talking on the phone the
other day, and I wanted to pick up on that
because you said being there was also a moment of
reflection for you. You know, that's more of a personal
insight that you don't necessarily take back to your company.
But I've found that too when I've gone in the past,
So talk about that.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
It's interesting because the whole idea of CAN being global,
it's an international festov of creativity, but I spoke with
numerous folks, even executives at CAN Lyons that are running
the festival, and it really has not been that global. Actually,
American presence and power and impact and influence have crowded
out a lot of the global elements of what CAN
(06:58):
used to be. And so if you think about it,
it's all the American tech companies, right, it's all the
media companies, and so being Latino and trying to have
a different vector, a different perspective, how do you actually
bring in, you know, kind of all the incredible creativity
coming from Latin America or obviously think about how important
Asia is you're not really getting that same kind of
perspective from other places around the world, from Africa to
(07:18):
the Middle East, you name it. And so it was
just very interesting that I think there is a beginning
kind of pull back from being so American dominated and
we're trying to bring that global perspective.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Okay, well, straight ahead, we're going to talk about hot
topics coming out of can Stephen. You said that last
year it was one thing. This year it's a little different.
I have my take on what it was, So don't
say AI.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Okay, we're not going to play the Rose drinking game.
Everyone got too drinking because I was mentioned so much,
so I hope it's something else.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
I wasn't going to say AI.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Good good, and we're back for the deeper dive in
this week's hot topic. All right, Marisa, you're promise me
that it's not going to be AI. So what is
the true hot topic for this year's camp.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
This is my non Rose influenced take, since I was
back here in the good old United States working as
I was observing it. But what I thought was very
interesting to read about is the fact that as those
of us who've been in years past really felt the
presence of purpose in every single conversation, and purpose was
(08:31):
starting to become almost so weighty and possibly, dare I say,
a bit divorced from the purpose itself of the companies
for which we work. And of course that kind of
creativity was really lauded, but there is I could feel
a bit of a course correction happening, and I spoke
about this last year, so I have to say I
(08:53):
was pretty happy to read about the fact that there
were now people, whether it was advising the jury who
are actually judging the work, to say, hey, it doesn't
all need to be about politics this year. It doesn't
all need to be just about greater societal work, which
God knows we all want to use our platforms for
(09:14):
greater good, but it needs to come back to the
commercial purpose of the work. And I think that's right.
I think that where it all makes sense for boards,
for CEOs, for investors is when you can do well
by doing good and you can connect whether it's ESG
or the greater societal good that you can use your
platform of a company for. When it's really plugged back
(09:37):
into why you exist as a brand or a company
or a service or product, that's when it makes sense,
and I've really tried to practice that as a CMO.
It's something I felt really passionately about at Low's, at
Taco Bell and my new role, and I just thought
that bit of a course correction made sense because we
are not purely in the business of art. We're in
(09:58):
the business of art meeting commerce. I think finally there
was a little bit of a wake up call the
can Lions. Yes it's the International Festival of Creativity, but
in this commercial world and we have to bring the
art and commerce together and purpose needs just be a
little more closely connected that way. That's my point of view.
What do you think.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Look, I feel at the end of the day, if
you're running a for profit enterprise, it has to be
about growing your business. I started my career in finance,
investment banking, and you know, it's interesting now to see
that there's a lot of venture capital and private equity
in CANDE, right, and so I feel like all eyes
are looking at the people that are here, and it
(10:38):
can't just be about the ad. It can't just be
about kind of a slogan the brand. When it's connected
to purpose, there is this authenticity through line that all
these things should be in sync. When the CEO is
trying to talk about why should investors invest in my business?
Why should consumers buy my products? It is going to
(11:01):
be tied to purpose. But I feel like it's understanding
the why, the how, and the what. I think a
lot of people get that order in the sequencing of
that confused. Ultimately, your why has to be I mean,
again classic Simon Sinek, it has to be something that's
bigger than you, something that we all can relate to.
How you're doing that. I feel like that is going
to be certainly connected to, you know, your unique value proposition,
(11:24):
your reasons to believe in classic you know, marketing speak,
and then ultimately like the what, like what is it
that you're going to be offering, whether it's a product
or service for me? Purpose is really the connectivity of
all those things. I always talk about Ikey Guy, that
Japanese perspective of understanding what you love, what you're good at,
what does the world need, and what you can get
paid for, and the intersection of all four of those
(11:45):
vectors is one's purpose.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Maybe more American companies need to use a little bit
of Japanese philosophy to think about this.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
But I mean everyone should know they're ikey guy, not
like an ikey guy, right like, not like, oh this
guy's hitting on me and he's creepy.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Oh not that kind of ikey guy.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
It's ikey iki gai itchy guy.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
See, we just uncovered one of the problems of audio.
We need to spell it out. Okay. Now, I think
that's great because I believe where it all started to
go a little perhaps too far, was in a way
it's arguably easier. Maybe this is a controversial thought to
make beautiful work about something deeply societal and emotional. But
(12:29):
then when you think about what our industry is really
oriented around is how do you do really incredibly disruptive
work that moves consumers to behave and that is connected
to the bottom line of a company. To your point,
so I think there's plenty of room. What's the saying,
do well to do good? Yes, but it just tests
to all be plugged in a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
The reality is there's no better place to really convene
with every single executive and leader in the industry. Maybe
the can Film Festival gets all the publicity, ken lyons
is where the business is getting done. And you actually
increasingly see so many different entertainers and celebrities coming to
can perspecially for that reason. I mean Kevin Hart was
the Entertainer of the Year. Well Kevin has you know,
(13:13):
his global multi platform entertainment and consumer products company Heartbeat.
Everyone from Asa Ray and Liza. I mean, you see
all these different types of folks convening here because they're
getting work done. They're getting business done. But I think
for us, where folks can tear down the industry and
things I can, we're trying to build it up. I
think the best thing is that we actually get to
meet with all of our friends and we actually have
(13:35):
time to connect because this is a beautiful community and
you know, maybe we just need to not have so
many panels where we're kind of speaking to ourselves a bit.
I think what people really want is that space, the
networking opportunity to just meet, catch up and actually share, Hey,
this is what I'm working on or I need some
help with this. That's what I love about our community.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah, networking with the emphasis on the work in network
to bring it back and create the value add for
the expense of going.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
First off, I think it's so important to talk about
how potentially we've jumped the shark and a lot of
these things. There is a true backlash that's happening, especially
on Wall Street in the investor community. I mean ESG,
which is you know, environmental, sustainable and governance practices. Having
a whole basket of stocks that now were tracked for
ESG causes a lot of investors are turning their back
(14:25):
on that.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Are they turning their back or they're just trying to
make sure that it ladders up though to a benefit, I.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Would say investors have kind of called bullshit on ESG.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
That makes me nervous.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
There's a real backlash because they don't feel that it
is truly driving the business. They feel like it was
almost like this kind of like what a lot of
marketers were doing in Camp with AI. They're just slapping
the label of ESG on it. It's really not rooted
in the business, and you hit upon something which is
really powerful around purpose. Richard Dixon, who's the president and
CEO of Mattel, was in Ken talking about certainly barbieing
(14:57):
kind of the evolution of Mattel, But he had a
great ques, which is evolution makes a brand relevant, but
purpose makes a brand immortal, but I would come at
it as purpose needs to be tied to, you know,
kind of the why, the how, and the what of
that brand of that business.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Right now, I'm going to push back with you a
little bit push back well on the ESG being rejected.
I haven't experienced that. I mean, having come out of
big public company roles. I think actually an interesting way
where the fire has been lit on companies to do
more on ESG than they're doing is surprisingly from the
investor community, and so you see that pressure and maybe
(15:34):
there's a little bit of the course correction. I don't
see that changing, and thank goodness, because without that we
won't make any progress. I just think when you put
it in the context of can the International Festival of
Creativity that we want to see work where you can
understand if it is about quote purpose, where I could
(15:56):
understand without even seeing a brand logo, how that purpose
connects to the brand, to the company.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
This is a real, real issue because when you have
folks like Warren Buffett rejecting ESG at Berkshire Hathaway, right,
that means that you know, one of the most savvious
and most successful investors of all time is saying no
to something like this. I think there's something there, but
I agree, it's not like throwing the baby out with
the bathwater. And when you think of ESG, how is
(16:23):
it really integrated into the company. Not every company is
going to be able to say that authentically. And I
think what you've done either of places like Taco, Bell, Lows, whatever,
se like it's really trying to understand how do you
incorporate these kind of things?
Speaker 1 (16:35):
I agree. I think the other interesting thing that I
just want to touch on before we wrap up our
hot topic for this first episode is the idea that
our industry is fickle.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Go on? In what way are we fickled.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
With what we think is important?
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Is this the real talk?
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Well, it's the real talk about how do we discern
between a fast moving world and jumping on board versus
and I as a marketer, this is always always the
dance between I don't want to be left behind? But
am I just chasing shiny new toys? Last year, everything
you know and I felt that pressure as a CMO
(17:15):
was about the metaverse and this year you're saying no
one was even talking about it. AI seems like a
true revolution. But are we going to look back next
year and no one's talking about AI. Probably not, but
I think it kind of forces us to be reflective
and thoughtful about what are the perennial issues that we
(17:38):
have as business leaders, as brand stewards, as company leaders,
and just watch out that we don't look like we
all convene and every year it's like a different fad
versus a genuine changing tide in our business.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
No, for sure. I mean this is something where across
every industry, understanding the difference between signal and noise is paramount,
and there's a lot of noise in this industry. And
I think that is the challenge. Because we're always skating
to where the puck wants to be. We need to
understand how there's a difference between kind of a fat
and something that is a shift. Just to be clear,
(18:13):
AI is not new. When I started at AK of
my technologies in nineteen ninety nine, which came out of
you know, the lack for computer science at MIT, we
were using machine learning. Artificial intelligence has been around since
the nineteen fifties, right, It was actually coined in nineteen
fifty six, So this is not new, but a lot
of technologies you really need to wait until there's a
consumer application where it really starts to go mainstream. And
(18:36):
what you see is things are kind of overhyped in
the short term, but they are under hyped in the
long term. And this, to be clear, is a platform shift.
So the same way that it was the year of
mobile for like a decadel until the iPhone came out, I.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Was just going to say that I remember that every
year when I was at the Yesterday Latter Companies as
head of digital, it was the year of mobile and
the year and it wasn't until it was So I
think that's right. I think to sum it up, what
we agree can continues to maybe have a little bit
of froth associated to it, but a lot of value.
(19:13):
And if anything happened this year to get us a
little closer to remembering it is the intersection of art
and commerce with purpose being purposeful. That feels like a
good thing to me. So up next, we're going to
do something very important to us for every episode, right Stephen,
which is that we just talked about what's on our minds,
but this is about making sure we also talk about
what's on your minds.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Orsa each week, We're going to be putting a spotlight
on our listeners. What's on your mind? I mean, Marsa,
you and I have been helping develop talent, nurture talent
for many, many years, maybe decades, But the reality is
we care about lifting up the next generation of talent.
And I've been doing a lot of things where we
spotlight different talent that may not get the recognition, you know,
(20:03):
whether it's diverse talent, women, you name it. But we're
really passionate about doing that. And I think you've been
doing this as well through all of your mentoring and
nurturing new talent. You started an organization called Executive Moms,
so you know when we have this week's question where,
by the way, please send your questions to ideas at
brandashnew dot com. What's this week's question?
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Well, I think you and I are both really whole
people in the sense that we're not afraid to talk
about our lives to our colleagues or employees. That's something
that when I founded Executive Moms over twenty years ago,
became a big part of my own personal brand, if
you will, in making other colleagues, including women and young moms,
(20:45):
feel like it's okay to have that integration, and so
it only seemed appropriate. I mean, we're going to get
lots of good questions, I know, in the future, to
our social channels, to our email. But I wanted to
ask my daughter, who my oldest daughter is a new executives.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
In our industry, in our industry or is.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
It not even a year and she is brand new
in the industry? And I thought, what, so, which daughter
is this? This is Hannah? And I think Avery, who knows,
may follow in her footsteps, but she's got another year
of high school left. But Hannah's out there, my.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Kid on the younger side, you know, so your kids
are younger, they're going to have to get mentored by you.
They've got a.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Little bit more time. They're being mentored in soccer right
now by their dad, right Steven. That's so for Hannah,
I asked her, what would you want to know from
people like Stephen and me? And she had, if I
may say so in a mom humble brag, a really
smart question. So here's our question of the week. What's
one piece of information you wish you knew starting out
(21:44):
as a marketer. Fair question for someone who's just starting
out in the world of brand and consulting and strategy
and media and tech, which she is. So I'll punt
it over to you to start. What would be your answer,
one piece of advice or information you wish you knew
starting out.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
It's so funny because I feel like a lot of
folks in this industry know me from either working at
publics when you're young, you know kind of all these
different marketing stints. But I feel like I had a
whole other life because I started my career in finance,
and I was fortunate enough to start in investment banking
and private equity, and it was such a crash course.
I mean to have this Dominican kid coming from money
(22:23):
or a Mount Vernon who didn't know anything about Wall Street,
to kind of be thrust into that world. That's really
where I learned about the foundations of business, understanding how
to build a financial model, to understand an income statement,
a balance sheet, a cashflow statement, And I feel like
understanding business and finance at the most fundamental level was
the best preparation for me to eventually go into any
(22:46):
of the industries that we talk about, whether it was tech, entertainment, advertising, media,
or marketing. So I would recommend anyone starting out, especially Hannah,
understand the business. You cannot have show business without the business.
And I feel like if you are a marketer that's
aspiring to be successful in this industry, ultimately, when you
get to the top, like Marissa, you're going to be
(23:07):
in the c suite and you will not have credibility
talking to a CEO, talking to a CFO, managing a
P and L, running a budget if you do not
understand the fundamentals of finance and business.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
I wish I had gotten that advice. It's really good advice.
And we all have our insecurities and our feeling that
we have an Achilles heel. I mean, the idea of
imposter syndrome is something that exists because we think it's
unique to us, and yet everyone has it. And I'll
put my female perspective on it. This is something that
I think women tend to really struggle with as we
(23:37):
rise further up the ranks. I think that's great advice.
And my only additive piece is that the world is
changing so quickly. I've done so many different things in
my career, none of which I think I could have
really predicted that. I believe that the best thing is
to be a critical thinker and to learn how to
connect dots. To me, that's more of an underlying theme
(24:00):
and success the necessarily the vocational expertise, because what is
the vocational expertise anymore in a world that's shifting so quickly.
So for me, I want to see people who can
think and who can demonstrate that clarity of as I said,
connecting dots, connecting ideas and finding novel smart solutions to
(24:22):
your point connected to an end business benefit. So I
hope that helps well.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
By the way, what I love about that is what
you are doing is you're future proofing the next generation
of talent because if you think about how literally we're
just at the dawn of the AI era, every single brand,
every single industry will be impacted by this, and you know,
I think people will certainly get sick of talking about AI,
and eventually the technology will become invisible if you do
(24:48):
not understand how to think. I mean literally, the most
important thing is something like CHATGBT. It's actually asking smart questions.
It's all about the prompt, right, and so now you're
going to see the word prompt kind of proliferate everywhere.
How to be a critical thinker and to use these tools,
because that's all they are, their tools. But if you
understand how to really ask more questions, that's going to
(25:08):
be the key.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Well, to use a cliche to end us up. The
one constant we know is change and our kids, certainly
your kids can't imagine that we grew up as kids
without Google. So now we'll see what the next generation things.
But that's it for episode one. I think we covered
a lot of ground.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
What do you think this was great? I mean, look,
we're just kicking this off. There's going to be a
lot more real talk. We're going to have a lot
more banter. We're going to invite a lot of our
friends from very different walks of life. Part of the
whole spirit of brand New is really having brand new voices,
brand new perspectives. Agree, we love our industry, but obviously
the same kind of folks keep on getting featured or interviewed.
(25:44):
The reality is we need to get fresh, young voices
to also shine a light on them, and so I
think that's really one of the main objectives that I
want to have with this podcast.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Well, hey, we may not be the youngest, but we're
definitely fresh.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Steven you're certainly fresh.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
And I'm excited to keep this banter with you. So
don't forget to send us your questions and thoughts to
ideas at brandashnew dot com. If you like this content,
don't forget to follow us at the Brand New Podcast
wherever you listen to your podcast so you never miss
an episode.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
And leave a rating comment anything on Apple podcast hol
us how much you like the content that will help
us spread the word and feed that algorithm. So join
us next time for What's brand New?
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Thanks so much for joining us. Episode one done
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