Krystal and Saagar discuss a new documentary from Jordan Chariton on Flint Michigan 10 years later, then we talk to Dana Mattioli about her new book on Amazon's monopoly "The Everything War", and James Li talks to Jen Perelman who is running for Congress against Debbie Wasserman-Schulz about AIPAC and student protests.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,
and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of
ways we can up our game for this critical election.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade
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Speaker 3 (00:15):
Coverage that is possible.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
If you like what we're all about, it just means
the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,
let's get to the show.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
It has been ten years since the city of Flint, Michigan,
was poisoned with lead, and there is one journalist I
know who never gave up on the story, never left
the story, and has continued to break explosive news about
what was an unbelievable criminal cover up and conspiracy that
(00:48):
did poison an entire American town. That would be Jordan
Cheriton of Status Kup. And he has a new documentary
coming out that tells the entire story in a way
that I think has never been told before.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
What matters right now is this that that Flint River
right there is still right there, okay, And those people
that are victims of what was played on them are
still victims. The seven thousand babies are still brain dammage.
You fucked up the fact that the matter is. Now,
what do you do about it? Now? You left a
lot of people dead and laying in the street, and
(01:21):
you still got people dead and laying in the streets.
Excuse my friendship.
Speaker 5 (01:32):
They told us we were disposable.
Speaker 6 (01:34):
That's what they told us, is that we are disposable people.
Speaker 7 (01:45):
Do you think this will ever be fixed?
Speaker 4 (01:48):
No?
Speaker 8 (01:51):
And you know I don't.
Speaker 7 (01:54):
I'm never gonna see my baby again, and they're never
gonna see their loved ones again.
Speaker 6 (02:00):
I don't know how to.
Speaker 7 (02:01):
Deal with that. These aren't all elderly people. We're talking
people in there, oh, forties, fifty.
Speaker 9 (02:12):
About eight years old? Oh wow, I'm talking about I
know a young girl have breast casting, eight years.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Old, my grandson.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
He was no longer an AB student, but a d
e F student.
Speaker 10 (02:34):
Year ten of the water crisis and my eighth year
of covering this. I first went to Flint in twenty sixteen, And.
Speaker 11 (02:48):
I guess we should start from the beginning.
Speaker 12 (02:58):
What is happening here in Genesee County? And is this
cancer crisis connected to the water switch?
Speaker 7 (03:04):
Newly released data.
Speaker 12 (03:05):
From the Health Department reveals cancer rates here significantly higher
than anywhere else in the state of Michigan.
Speaker 11 (03:18):
Is the ten year anniversary of the Flint water crisis,
and it's not something from the past.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Jordan's always great to see you, Hey, thank you for
having me. Yeah, of course, So just talk to us
a little bit about what's new in this documentary and
why you felt it was so important to stay on
the story.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 11 (03:37):
I think in today's news cycle, where it's hard to
remember what happened yesterday, it is incredibly hard, since the
media stopped covering Flint long ago, to remember what Flint
is about and also realize that it's actively still a crisis,
not something from the past.
Speaker 7 (03:56):
So I've reported there.
Speaker 11 (03:58):
Twenty times since twenty six and each time I go back,
it's truly shocking and really horrifying that it's still actively
a crisis. You know, we've become numb to that word,
but it's still a crisis. And in this documentary you'll
see cancers through the roof in Flint, and it's not
from the weather, it's from the water. Teens are sadly
(04:21):
now committing suicide. They were children when they were poisoned.
There is serious, serious mental health problems, education problems, in Flint.
You'll learn that a lot of the money that Congress
and elsewhere earmarked for Flint mysteriously did not go to
Flint and water relief. So it's kind of a mix
(04:45):
of showing the active crisis, yes, the water is still toxic,
and the domino effect with the cancers, the teen suicides,
and really a city that is actively in crisis.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Tell us of what residents that you spoke with want
people to know about what has been done to them.
Speaker 11 (05:07):
For the most part, residents desperately want people to know
that they are still actively in crisis.
Speaker 7 (05:13):
Residents I speak with.
Speaker 11 (05:14):
Still ten years later get rashes from the water. Residents
I speak to still their eyes burn when they shower,
still in many cases getting smelly or discolored water. On
the other side, residents are nearly going bankrupt paying for
medical bills because they did not get universal health care
(05:35):
like some other cities with similar issues had Libby, Montana,
for example, with an asbestos disaster.
Speaker 7 (05:42):
They're predominantly white.
Speaker 11 (05:43):
They got Medicare for All for their crisis rightfully, so
Flint did not. Residents desperately want the media to pay attention.
You know, I know we're in a twenty four to seven,
never ending Trump and Russia and now you know understandably
Israel Gaza. But they even get their local media to
continue covering their issues with the water, much less national media.
(06:06):
So I think between the water, the medical problems, the children,
the Lost generation, children who are having serious learning problems,
reading problems, learning disabilities, autism on.
Speaker 7 (06:18):
The rise, and also crime is on the rise.
Speaker 11 (06:22):
We know that heavy metal poisoning, lead poisoning, there's research
to shows that could lead to higher crime. And there
is no kind of understanding or sympathy being shown to
flint teenagers or young adults that are committing crimes, not
to defend those crimes, but you know a lot of
that is because their brain was damaged and they have
volatile mood swings.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Yeah, and there is no cure, There is no recovery,
There is no moving on from lead poisoning. Talk to
us about the process of accountability of any of the
politicians who were involved. Have they been held accountable to
any extent?
Speaker 11 (06:58):
You know, it's funny all we hear about cover a
lot is all this hubbabaloo about saving democracy.
Speaker 7 (07:03):
Well, how's this for democracy? A US city.
Speaker 11 (07:07):
Of one hundred thousand people was poisoned a decade ago,
and not one government official, private and individual has been
held accountable. Not one has even seen a jury, and unfortunately,
it does not seem anyone will be held accountable.
Speaker 7 (07:22):
Not to get two in the weeds.
Speaker 11 (07:24):
But Attorney General Dana Essel of Michigan, she is a
beloved you know MSNBC resistance hero for some of the
cases she brought against Republicans the election scheme, but she
basically tanked the criminal investigation the Michigan State Supreme Court
throughout her offices criminal prosecution, stating that they essentially violated
(07:47):
the state constitution in the way they brought it. As
a result, former Governor Rick Snyder's charges were thrown out.
Eight other state officials charges were thrown out. In many cases,
the statute of limitations has passed those crimes, and as
we speak, the criminal investigation has ended, so it seems
no one will be held criminally accountable.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Jordan, Lastly, what do you think that this story tells
us about America?
Speaker 11 (08:14):
I think the story of Flint tells us about America
that the capitalist system, if you're in the wrong city
at the wrong time, if you have leaders that want
to you know, run government like a business, throw emergency managers,
which are unelected czars to take over power, try to
you know, privatize things, which is what led to this.
Speaker 7 (08:35):
The government is not going to help you, really help you.
Speaker 11 (08:39):
If you are poisoned, whether it's water, whether it's fracking, mining,
whether a train blows up in your town in Ohio,
you know you'll get some kind of artificial surface help
and that the headlines will say you're getting money, but
at the end of the day, they will leave you
to slowly die. And that's what's happening in Flint, between
the cancer and other illnesses from lead and other things
(09:00):
that we're in that water. It's basically a city that's
been abandoned by the government and the media.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
And there are so many places like that around the
country which you have done maybe a better job than
anyone on covering and staying with the story even after
a lot of the cameras go away. Thank you for
joining us, Thank you for doing this incredible work on
the documentary, and thank you also for letting us post
this on our channel. We're really proud to be able
to premiere this and show off the work that you've
(09:28):
done and bring this story to you to the country,
So everybody make sure you check out Jordan's documentary and
any last thoughts Jordan or any additional advice on how
to follow your work.
Speaker 7 (09:40):
And thank you to breaking points.
Speaker 11 (09:41):
There are no mainstream media outlets that are willing to
stay on Flint, so you're not a mainstream outlet and
that's why you're airing it. Yes, you can check out
and subscribe to Status Coup on YouTube Status coup where
we cover Flint, East Palestine and many similar stories, and
you could support our work at status cu dot com, slash.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Join statisticcou dot com. Guys, go check it out. They
do really important work that is totally overlooked by the
mainstream press.
Speaker 13 (10:10):
Jordan always great to see and talk to you. Thank you, sir.
Speaker 7 (10:20):
So.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
One thing we have been covering here for quite a
while is the massive role in the US and really
global economy of the behemoth Amazon. So we're lucky to
be joined this morning by an author of a new
book about that corporate giant. The title is The Everything War,
Amazon's ruthless quest to own the world and remake corporate power.
The author is Dana Mattioli. She's a Wall Street Journal
(10:43):
Amazon reporter, and she joins us. Now, Dana, great to
meet you and welcome.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
Good to see you, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah, of course, So tell us what is sort of
the core thesis of the book.
Speaker 8 (10:53):
Yeah, the book tracks Amazon's rise from this garage startup
to really the most dominant force in corporate America, but
the world of writ large, its effects on the economy,
job creation, competition, and how it's found itself in the
center of this monopoly lawsuit because of the habit it's
reaped across different industries. So it's an investigation to the
(11:15):
company's business practices and the results of it having accumulated
so much power.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
One of the things that you go into data is
about monopoly itself and the definition. I'm wondering if you
could lay that out from our audience, because I know
it's a bit complicated, But what's the effect of that
and how regulators are looking at the power of Amazon.
Speaker 5 (11:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (11:35):
So these anti trust laws were first derived in the
Gilded Age to stop the trust like standard oil, and
for years, in the years decades it was enforced to
allow competition, to protect smaller rivals to compete.
Speaker 5 (11:48):
There was a change in the way that it was
enforced in the nineteen seventies and eighties.
Speaker 8 (11:52):
Where the lens shifted to looking at these laws and
competition through its effect on prices and efficiency. Companies were
offering low prices and they could be more efficient. There
was a standard of letting that happen, and we stopped defending,
you know, David versus Goliath so vehemently, and that's sort
of given rise to companies like Amazon. In the early days,
(12:14):
in particular, it was known as this low cost retailer.
So as long as it was offering low prices for consumers,
it was allowed to get away with lots of other
types of behavior that would have been enforced in years past.
Speaker 5 (12:25):
And you see that throughout big tech with Google and
Apple and Facebook as well.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
So one of the things that you point to an
anecdote that you have in the story just so people
can get like a finer point on the type of
behavior you're talking about, is how when Amazon decided they
wanted to go into the food business and have a
private label, their approach was just to higher up some
former Trader Joe's execs and be like, give us everything
(12:52):
you have about what their top items are and we're
just going to copy them, and that's what we're going
to do to just tell us about that anecdote and
how that connects to their typical business practices.
Speaker 8 (13:03):
So in twenty fifteen, Amazon was launching this food brand
called Wickedly Prime, and they wrote this paper internally to
Pitchet to management and it said, we want to replicate
the top two hundred items at Trader Joe's. Problem was
they didn't know what those items were. So they set
out and hired this executive from Trader Joe's, didn't really
tell her what she'd be working on, and her first
(13:24):
week in Seattle, she stumbles across this very secretive conference room.
It has brown paper covering the windows in the door
so no one could see inside, and she walks in
and it's filled with boxes or Trader joe Snacks, the
exact area that she worked in at Trader Joe's. She
starts getting alarmed, and from there her manager starts pressuring
her to give any sorts of documents she had retained
(13:46):
from her employment at Trader Joe's, even though she has
an NDA and whatnot.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
She caves to the pressure.
Speaker 8 (13:52):
She gives them an Excel spreadsheet with the top items
from Trader Joe's, the sales volume over the course of
a week. But then he just keeps hounding Graces. I
want the margins data, he screams at her. She cries
in the middle of Amazon's headquarters. And someone reported this
to legal so the people that were involved did get
let go. But everyone I've spoken to has said this
(14:13):
was so indicative of the pressure people at Amazon are
under to perform. They need to improve their numbers, they
need to hit their targets because at the end of
the year, the bottom six percent gets cut, and that
has effects on the type of behavior that play out
across the company. And this is like not an isolated
incident by any means.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Right well, And in this instance, they didn't have access
to the Trader joe information, and it's not something that
you can get publicly, So their approach was, all right,
we're going to hire this person and we're just going
to steal the information and then we're going to copy it.
But in lots of cases, you know, they have this
giant marketplace with lots of independent sellers.
Speaker 13 (14:49):
They can see exactly which.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Products are selling really well and performing really well among
their customers. They can replicate those products, and then they
can use their own algorithm to make sure that when
a shopper is looking for something like that product, it's
not that original independent sellers product who gets pushed. It's
their business line that gets pushed, so that they get
(15:11):
to reap the benefits of every aspect of this marketplace.
Speaker 5 (15:15):
And they've been doing that for years.
Speaker 8 (15:16):
The book gets into details about how, first of all,
Amazon has unprecedented access to data not just from its sellers,
but its rivals. It's partners that you see time and
time again in really shocking ways, Amazon uses that information
to undercut them and to reverse engineer their hits and
claim it as their own. On the private label side,
they were spying on their sellers, taking their data on
(15:39):
about what's selling well, and then reverse engineering it in
shins in and just putting some of these sellers out
of business. But we also saw that the on the
VC arm, you know Amazon, because they're so big there,
there's many tentacle octopus with such big market share everywhere.
Founders come and pitch them on an acquisition or funding,
and so many of the people I spoke to came
(16:00):
out of those meetings saying was that a deal making
talk or was that corporate espionage?
Speaker 4 (16:06):
M Wow?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Fascinating, David, So in the future, what do you expect
now that Amazon is already what is it, the second
largest employer in the United States, Their power is only increasing.
They are eventually going to brush up against actual legislative
action or even the FTC. Where do you see the
future going for Amazon right now?
Speaker 8 (16:27):
So, the FTC filed a lawsuit against Amazon saying that
you're a monopoly. It will go to court in twenty
twenty six, so that's still some times away from here.
But what's kind of interesting to me is that they
don't seem at all rattled. They Andy Jasse, the CEO
right now, has told his deputies that we could be
a ten trillion dollar company. Their general counsel a few
(16:49):
weeks after this lawsuit was filed against Amazon, got on
stage in All Hands and was asked about his outlook
for the monopoly lawsuit, and he said, haters are.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
Going to hate, going to shake it off. So we
just quoted, you know, Taylor Swift. So they really don't seem.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Phased or to have any shame about ringe comments like that. Dane,
My last question for you is just to give the
other side, like, you know, there's a lot of people
who love Amazon, who are like Amazon's amazing and they're
super convenient, and guess what, Like they did amazing and
they grew to such size because people really like what
they had to offer and it's super cool that I
can get you know, my toilet paper delivered next day
(17:25):
or whatever. And you know something I saw you got
a question about before. You got a lot of independent
sellers who may be in some small town in Kansas
or wherever, and now they're able to each reach this
global marketplace. Isn't that glorious for them? So what's your
response there?
Speaker 8 (17:41):
I would say for consumers, we should be thinking about
at what costs? So what was very telling to me
is I went back to some of Amazon's earliest employees
from the nineteen nineties, the people.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
That helped build this machine.
Speaker 8 (17:52):
They've become fabulously wealthy from their stock options at the time, right,
I mean, they're living really well, and I've gone back
to them to say, like, how do you.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
Fel about the company now?
Speaker 8 (18:01):
So many of them have canceled their prime accounts, a
lot of them avoid Amazon wherever they can, and some
of them have even said I feel like I helped
build a monster.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
Like they have regrets about this.
Speaker 8 (18:11):
They worry about its impact on innovation, main street, the economy.
I mean, if you look at just the jobs in
retail in twenty eighteen, there's a net loss of seven
hundred thousand retail jobs according to one study, and then
between twenty one and twenty seventeen, half a million department
store jobs were evaporated. That's eighteen times as many as
(18:32):
they were lost in coal mining, to give you an example, right,
And that's just one of their tentacles. And you know,
when I speak to those CEOs, the mall retailer CEOs,
the CEOs of the department stores, of the other retailers,
they point directly at Amazon.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Really a lot to think about. I recommend everybody go
and buy the book. We'll have a link in the description.
Thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah, great to have you, Dana, Thank you, Thank you
very much.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Welcome to Breakpoints Beyond the Headlines.
Speaker 7 (19:05):
My name is James Lee.
Speaker 6 (19:06):
Joining us today is Jen Peerlman. She is running against
Debbie Wasserman Schultz in the Democratic primary to represent Florida's
twenty fifth congressional district.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Jen Welcome to the show.
Speaker 13 (19:15):
Thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker 6 (19:17):
Of course, of course, first question has to be I think,
why are you running? Because we all know that the
Democratic Party probably doesn't want you to run. So tell
us what makes your candidacy different than that of your opponent,
Debbie Wasserman Schultz.
Speaker 14 (19:32):
Okay, So the main reason that I ran in twenty
and the same reason that I'm running now is this
idea of transforming politics into service, this idea that this
is supposed to be a term of service and not
a career, and it is certainly not meant to be.
Speaker 13 (19:46):
A lucrative career.
Speaker 14 (19:48):
So the idea of having somebody in there in representing
this district that is not behold into the military industrial complex,
big pharma, APAC, you name, it is very appealing to
a lot of people in the district. And some people, yes,
there's policy and stuff that they're concerned with, but I
(20:08):
got to tell you, for the most part, what people
want is to get rid of the corruption and as
somebody who isn't looking for a second career and doesn't
need this job and generally gets like a five year, itch.
This is not this is not a career choice for me.
It has to be like, I'm not gonna sit there.
And the only reason I feel like it's hard right
(20:30):
now is unseating a corporate incumbent that's backed by APAC.
Speaker 13 (20:34):
Right, this is about.
Speaker 14 (20:36):
Unseating a corporate monolith and returning this seat and potentially
even the state of Florida to people that may have
its best interest at heart over people that do not.
Speaker 6 (20:48):
I wanted to ask you. You brought up APAX several times,
so I wanted to ask you. Recently, they've been openly
bragging about their influence in Congress, whether with the big
build now to Israel, and also how their support basically
get and tease election to Congress and your opponent takes
millions from a pack. And there's been a lot written about.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
This as well.
Speaker 6 (21:07):
How much control do you think pro Israel lobbies have
on members of Congress?
Speaker 7 (21:13):
Oh?
Speaker 14 (21:13):
I think they seem to own them. They seem to
own actually all three branches of government and the fourth estate.
I find it terrifying. Everybody should be asking themselves why
isn't APAC registered as a foreign agent? Why is APAC
the only lobbying group on behalf of a foreign entity
that does not have to have his lobbyist registered as
foreign agents. Why is that so they can give unlimited dollars.
Speaker 13 (21:37):
It's that's why.
Speaker 14 (21:38):
And so you know, obviously we have we're being ruled
by the zion Estate. You can always tell who's in
charge by what you're not allowed to speak out against.
So if I can sit here and I can talk
about Joe Biden, no problem. I could talk about you know,
I could talk about my congressman, no problem.
Speaker 13 (21:55):
But you talk about Israel, then that's it.
Speaker 14 (21:57):
So that's clearly who's in charge.
Speaker 13 (22:00):
I basically have told Apak to bring it. Bring it.
Speaker 14 (22:04):
You can call me a self loathing Jew. You can
do what ever you want to do. It's of no
matter to me. But I will say to people who
would like to defeat the concept that electing someone like
me as an anti Zionist Jew over someone like Debbie
would be the strongest signal message that the collectively we
(22:25):
could send to APAC. Seriously, that would be like the
biggest fu to APAC. Because right now there aren't any
anti Zionist Jews running for Congress, and I haven't seen any.
But maybe a couple even sort of maybe kind to
say something that are in there, so you know, I'm
the last thing that they want.
Speaker 6 (22:44):
Yeah, speaking of conflation of maybe anti Zionism anti Semitism
a lot. It's been going on in college campuses, most
recently at Columbia with the Gaza and campus sitting sitting.
And I also saw this morning footage from ny You
now reports of MIT tough other universities doing the exact
same thing, and some in the mainstream are really calling
(23:07):
these students terrorists. I've heard that thrown out there, some
members of Congress saying similar you know, not going as far,
but they're saying similar things, basically portraying them as not
anti Zionist protests but also anti Semitic, targeting Jews. I've
seen some videos, you know, both good and bad videos.
So I'm wondering, based on your values that you just
(23:27):
talked about, what's your reaction to what the students are doing.
Speaker 14 (23:31):
I could not be prouder like I could almost cry
like I I those kids are the future of everything.
Those kids are smart and capable and organized, like serious say,
could cry, I am so proud of those kids. They're
not even my kids. But I mean, okay, I'm old
enough to be their mother, but I feel like, you know,
(23:52):
they are doing they are kicking ass. I could not
stand a more solidready. And as far as the people
that are calling them names and calling them out, that
is called the death throws of empire and the death
rows of capital.
Speaker 13 (24:09):
And while it looks ugly, it's it's really a sign.
It's a sign. I know that people.
Speaker 14 (24:15):
You know, it's scary, you know, like what's going on
is scary, but I you know, this is this is
how it needs to be before it can be different.
And so I understand that it's very uncomfortable for people.
But like those students, that is all my goal in
life is to consolidate those people with the union, the
(24:36):
labor movement, with the environmentalist movement, with the block cop
city movement and everybody, and like that's the coalition that
we need to build. So those those kids are you know,
they're fighting for everyone. I'm very pleased with them, and
they need to I am, and I'm also will stand
in solid area with the professors that are putting their
careers on the line for standing up for these students.
(24:59):
And so you know, that is something that I yeah,
major respect.
Speaker 6 (25:04):
If you're I'm curious, if you were one of the
university presidents, how would you handle this, because it's obviously
a very controversial, it's it's uncomfortable and that they're in
a tough spot, So I'm curious, how would you handle this.
Speaker 14 (25:16):
I can actually tell you exactly how I would handle it,
because I can go back to the first time I
saw it was the mi T president and the pen
I think back like it was like a few months
ago when they were sitting in front and being questioned
by that vile woman up in New.
Speaker 13 (25:32):
York, and.
Speaker 14 (25:35):
She was asking them basically trying to get them to say, okay,
that they condone the basically that they condone the suggestion
of genocide, okay by saying that words like intifada and
phrases like from the river to the sea are chants
(25:55):
for genocide. And right there, when neither of those people
spoke up in that moment and looked her in the
face and said, nobody's calling for a genocide. That's not
what that means. And given that woman the.
Speaker 13 (26:08):
History lesson that she needed it at the time.
Speaker 14 (26:10):
I am so tired of people calling things what they
are not those chants have nothing to do with anti Semitism.
In fact, they are ethnic cleansing terms that were created
by the Lequd party in Israel. So if anybody, and
I will say this, like I say every time, every
single thing that Zionists accuse others of our only admissions
(26:33):
of stuff that they do.
Speaker 13 (26:34):
And you know they're lying when their lips are moving.
And I know this because I.
Speaker 14 (26:39):
Was trained and brainwashed and grown up all Zionist and proud,
and it's taken me about fourteen years to deprogram.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
How did you deprogram yourself? What was your journey there?
Speaker 14 (26:51):
It's you know what, It's taken a long time, and
it was it was definitely like a process. But it
started around the time of the Second Antifada, which was
also around the time that I started hearing about BDS.
And then I started hearing about anti BDS legislation.
Speaker 13 (27:09):
This was like.
Speaker 14 (27:11):
Early two thousands, and I started looking into that and
then it just sort of unfolded like a house of
cards online. Because I am someone who very much believes
in the First Amendment, and so the idea that I
am not allowed to boycott a foreign entity and also
get a contract with a city for you know, for work.
(27:33):
That seems like a violation of my first Amendment to me.
And so then I started looking into why are we
so scared of BDS? Where does that come from?
Speaker 13 (27:40):
You know? And it just it was a rabbit hole.
Speaker 14 (27:43):
And up until even twenty nineteen, I still thought that
a two state solution was possible.
Speaker 13 (27:51):
I was still what you.
Speaker 14 (27:52):
Would call they call them liberal Zionists, like you believe
that the state of Israel has a right to exist,
but you believe Palestinians should have their own state. Those people,
and then once you do the research and you realize
that there was never an intent by Zionists to have
a Palestinian state. That was always made up talking point again,
like the whole thing unraveled. And so yeah, that's my background,
(28:16):
but it's very upsetting to me. I grew up in
a working class family that would send money to Israel
to plant trees in Israel. Everything was through J and F.
I did a high school program through the Jewish National
Fund called Alexander Muss High School in Israel where they
have us planting trees and occupied territory under armed guard,
(28:36):
and we all thought.
Speaker 13 (28:37):
Oh, that's so cool.
Speaker 14 (28:38):
This guy has an assault rifle and he's traveling with us.
And as a mother, I'm thinking, if you are taking
my child somewhere where you think that they need somebody
standing over them with an assault rifle to protect them,
you are somewhere you ought not be, and therefore you
are using my child as.
Speaker 13 (28:54):
A human shield.
Speaker 14 (28:55):
That's what I think, and also as a tool of
ethnic cleansing. So my thoughts on a pack and that
they can come for me all they want. I know
all their secrets, I know all their stories, I know
all their talking.
Speaker 13 (29:08):
Points and all they have. They have money, they have money.
Speaker 14 (29:12):
You know, they'll put out tons of constant reminding people
over and over again that I support terrorists, I'm a
Hamas lover.
Speaker 13 (29:19):
You know they'll put that on repeat.
Speaker 14 (29:22):
But the problem is, at the end of the day,
it's still only going to appeal to a very small,
finite echo chamber of voters and the people that will
watched that APAC loop over and over. It's not going
to expand that group of people isn't going to just
get bigger. You're not going to all of a sudden
have somebody that cares about that issue.
Speaker 6 (29:40):
I don't think you're wrong there in terms of the
number of people supporting Israel in the same way they
have done in the past, or be smaller and smaller.
But we just saw this past weekend that doesn't really matter.
In Congress, they just you know, shove through this ninety
five billion dollars a package Ukraine Israel.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
A little bit of.
Speaker 14 (29:57):
It wouldn't have had my name on it. I could
tell you that right now. It would not have had
my name on it. And they could bundle it with
all sorts of other stuff. You could bundle it with everything,
you could put whipp cream and a cherry on top,
and I still would not sign that.
Speaker 13 (30:11):
So yeah, I saw that.
Speaker 14 (30:12):
And of course you know Debbie, she she would She
always gives them more money than they asked for.
Speaker 6 (30:18):
So then, you know, we saw some of the footage
coming out this week from the from the weekend, just
members of Congress waving foreign flags, and it looked, you know,
it was a really striking visual to see, especially since
we have been more or less gridlocked on a lot
of these domestic legislative pieces. But then they got somehow
the ability to do that, also sneaking into the TikTok band,
(30:39):
which I think is a pretty unpopular legislation for for
the American people. So then what what do you say
the folks that you know that have kind of just
given up on the electoral process and say, well, it
doesn't matter who we vote in there, there's just still going.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
To do the things that they do.
Speaker 14 (30:54):
You know what, there is no solid answer for that.
I think you got to just be chipping away at it.
I mean, look, there were there were people that didn't
sign that. There were people there were even some Jewish
congress people that didn't sign that, So you know, it
can be done. You just need to start chipping away
at the corporate tentacles that are basically holding people. And
you can only do that by electing people that don't
(31:16):
take corporate money. And then it becomes even people that
don't take corporate money, but they're still scared of being
primaried from that corporate money. So even though they're not
taking it, they're still sort of acting in accordance with it.
So there's a lot of that too. And it's look,
I don't I can't speak for anyone else, right like,
I only know how it is for me, and I
(31:39):
would just always be as transparent and really bring this
home here, what people want, what they want to see,
and not just fall in line with a party or
fall in line with anybody if it's not in the
best interest or what the majority of people really want.
Speaker 6 (31:54):
Yeah, speak seeing a political strategy. So I've noticed that
if you compare them more you can say, more extreme
members of each party, the Freedom Caucus, those guys versus
say the squad one side seems much more willing to
play hardball to kind of get what we want.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Now, where would you stand? How how would you approach politics?
Speaker 14 (32:11):
When I am sitting here and I'm on the same
page as people like Matt Gates and Marjorie Taylor Green
And this wasn't the first time, by the way. Now,
granted I will say this, her reasons for why she
would vote no to certain things are completely different than
my reasons. Okay, like that that's neither here nor there.
She doesn't want to give them money because she's worried
about China and space lasers or whatever her shit is.
(32:33):
But like their strategy of really sticking it to their
party is that's exactly what we need to be doing.
Speaker 13 (32:42):
That's exactly that's.
Speaker 14 (32:44):
The whole point of having a progressive caucus, except there's
like over one hundred people in the Progressive Caucus, but
yet only how many people signed didn't sign this resolution,
and that's barely being progressive. So no, I think that
they they are definitely feckless. I think they don't wield power.
I think they're more concerned with getting primaried. I think
that the rain Makers and the queen Bees and whoever
(33:06):
in that party just scare them and bully them. And
I don't Again, I don't know because I'm not there,
but I do know that there are a lot more
people listed in the Progressive Caucus then there are actually
seemingly progressive people. So maybe if that caucus actually stood
for something and really was a progressive caucus of actual
(33:27):
progressive people, not people that take like, let's say, big
farm and insurance money, then maybe they'd have power. But
they don't have any power because they're infiltrated by so
many different people that aren't really with them. Like there's
no what is that the squad isn't a real thing.
That's a made up term by media. That's not a
real thing.
Speaker 6 (33:48):
Yeah, when I'm looking at this whole election cycle and
in totality all the way from the top to the bottom.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
I kind of see.
Speaker 6 (33:54):
So there's a lot of people, I think gravitating towards
the more Trump like figures. The guys who are out
there saying, hey, we're going to have the best country,
the best economy, we have the jobs coming back, strong border,
a little bit of that, you could say, just trust me,
give me the keys, and I'm going to take good
care of you vibes. And then I think the other side,
the Democrats have characterized that kind of posturing is dictatorial
(34:16):
and that's why we need to vote Joe Biden.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
We got to save democracy.
Speaker 6 (34:19):
They don't really talk too much about their domestic agenda
beyond anti Trump. So what I'm curious about is, let's
say the Democrats are right. Let's say we go with
their definition. One side is dictatorship. The other side is
what maybe what you just kind of characterize as a
pseudo democratic administration that's in effect owned by many of
(34:40):
the same groups lobby I.
Speaker 14 (34:41):
Was talking about Congress. If you want to talk about
Joe now, we're not just talking now, we're talking genocidal. So, yeah,
you might have a dictator on one side, but you
got somebody genocidal on the other, but please continue.
Speaker 6 (34:51):
So then what is one side truly that different than
the other? I guess what are your thoughts on this argument?
Speaker 13 (34:57):
I think it's absurd.
Speaker 14 (34:59):
I think the fact that we're sitting here and talking
about between those two individuals in particular, that that's the
two main choices, that's a sign that we no longer
have a democracy.
Speaker 13 (35:09):
We're already there.
Speaker 14 (35:10):
People, We have so crossed over into the realm of
fascist corporate takeover of this country that I just don't
know what to tell you anymore. But the fact that
that's the choice, what are you scared?
Speaker 13 (35:22):
Seriously?
Speaker 14 (35:23):
And the thing is the people that truly do I
have found this And I have been dialing for dollars
a lot lately, so I talk to a lot of
people on the phone, and I always say, you know,
who do you like in the election? And so I'm
talking to a lot of.
Speaker 13 (35:35):
People, and without without fail, the.
Speaker 14 (35:39):
People whose primary concern is about Trump are more privileged people.
Speaker 13 (35:44):
Without fail, the.
Speaker 14 (35:46):
People who are struggling, working, whatever they it's they don't
even mention Trump. They mention they mentioned healthcare, they mentioned
in clean water, they mention wars, they mention those things.
So the people that are really so scared of Trump
at this point are really a small group of people,
(36:06):
and it is an establishment, democratic, very elitist group of people,
and they are completely out of touch with regular people
because when you talk to like vulnerable people or in
any moment, so for example, Palestinians at the moment, I'm
pretty sure that there's nothing worse than somebody who's participating
(36:28):
in genociding their family. I'm pretty sure that there's no
worse than that, like that, that's as bad as You're
not going to scare them with anything at this point.
So you look at the most vulnerable and oppressed people
at any time, and look at from their perspective, what's
their perspective on who would be worse? Not who would
be worse for rich you know, you know, elitist America.
Speaker 13 (36:50):
That doesn't concern me. You look at it for what
would be worse for the least of these. And I
am telling you from someone who.
Speaker 14 (36:58):
Has been in the streets with the least of these
for the better part of the past five years. It
is six to one half a dozen of the other
between those two people, I assure you.
Speaker 6 (37:08):
Before I let you go, I want to talk about
your campaign specifically. So you ran twenty twenty also against W.
Wasserman Schultz.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
You lost.
Speaker 6 (37:15):
I think the vote count was about fifty five k
for her, twenty one for you, seventy thirty split. So
this time in twenty twenty four, what are you trying
to do differently? What do you see as your path
to victory? You know, between now in August twentieth, what
are the kinds of things that you and your campaign
are doing to strategically try to close that gap?
Speaker 14 (37:33):
Okay, So let me be very clear, even though I
didn't run in twenty two, I have been working canvassing
in this district for the past four years, whether it
was for women's reproductive freedom, whether it was for other
candidates whatever. Okay, So just the amount of community ties,
name recognition, build up all of that connections in city
(37:55):
commission seats that weren't there four years ago, people that
are in positions were other people used to put their
hands on the wait for Debbie, hands on the scale
for Debbie. Just a lot of things in played there,
also just having my podcast having more name recognition. But
our district lines have also changed, and the entire Dade
(38:18):
County portion that used to be in our district, which
is coastal, affluent, very Jewish. That entire portion is no
longer in our district, and instead we gained an area,
a town called Mirramar, which is very working class, canvasible,
regular people, heavy Latino, a lot of Haitian islander you know,
(38:41):
working people, but most importantly canvasible because the rich, hoity
toity high rises that got cut out of our district
were areas that we couldn't even canvas as a grassroots campaign.
So the only way in those is TV and mailers,
which we could do a couple but she's able to
like flood it.
Speaker 13 (38:59):
So to get rid of.
Speaker 14 (39:00):
Portions of the district that aren't canvassible is a huge
gain for us. But then you also look at the
demographic that she lost. She lost, she lost a lot.
Speaker 13 (39:10):
Of wealthy Jewish people.
Speaker 14 (39:12):
It's actually where I'm from is the part of the
district that's no longer in district where I grew up
is that, and so what we gained is not that.
So the demographic has changed, uh as well. That is
also in favor of people fighting for working class issues.
Speaker 13 (39:29):
So there's been a lot of different variables.
Speaker 14 (39:32):
And honestly, what's going on in Gaza is that that
makes it almost a perfect storm in terms of the
people that have been reaching out to me and wanting
to support me, and people especially in the Muslim community
that aren't overly politically involved normally, but are very organized
(39:52):
and involved right now. And I just feel like the
tide is turning. It just feels it just feels it
just different this time. And again it's still it's still
an uphill battle to unseat and incumbent, you know what
I mean, it's by no means, it's by no means,
just like a gimme no matter what. But I definitely
know that we have made huge advancements in terms of
(40:14):
my presence in the community as well as national for
fundraising and name recognition. I actually have a team this time,
which is amazing because last time it was my business
partner and I and it was just the two of
us basically, and we had some people helping us do stuff,
but were we It's.
Speaker 13 (40:31):
This is so much better to have.
Speaker 14 (40:32):
It's so nice to have a campaign manager, it's so
nice to have a finance person. It's just it's like,
it's it feels almost luxurious to me. So I feel
like the way that I did it the first time,
being so insane, made it that.
Speaker 13 (40:44):
Maybe this is why it's easy or feels easier to me.
Speaker 14 (40:48):
Maybe that's why, like people, maybe if you start this way,
you're just used to having a campaign manager and a
comms person and all that.
Speaker 13 (40:55):
I don't. We're not used to that.
Speaker 14 (40:57):
So I definitely feel like there's a team of people
working really really hard, and I'm it's yeah, it's inspiring.
Speaker 6 (41:05):
Where can people find more information about your campaign if
they're interested in learning more perhaps even getting involved.
Speaker 14 (41:11):
Oh for sure at gen j e N twenty twenty
four dot org and go there, sign up. All of
the links are social media are on there. I do
not want to begin to tell you what all the
social media handles are.
Speaker 13 (41:24):
I just I can't. So go to GEN twenty twenty
four dot org.
Speaker 14 (41:29):
And if you're local by any chance and you would
like to help locally, we'd love to have you sign
up and show up in an event or something like
that too. But anybody can volunteer from anywhere. And if
you want to even host a fundraiser, we can do
those on Zoom. If you have like a group of
people that you think would be interested in having a chat,
you know, like I could be you know, I do GEN,
(41:49):
I could do GEN talks for hire. There we just
there're zoom fundraisers and we have a few different things
coming up that are that are going to be fun.
Speaker 9 (41:57):
Uh.
Speaker 14 (41:57):
We're going to be having a Jess Eventura fundraise her
that he's going to do for us. And that's the
one coming up that is a public it will be
a public thing soon.
Speaker 4 (42:07):
All right.
Speaker 6 (42:08):
Well, Jen Perlman, everybody, we appreciate you for joining us
today on breaking points.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Best of luck on the campaign, GRIP.
Speaker 7 (42:13):
Thank you.
Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,
and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of
ways we can up our game for this critical election.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade
the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Coverage that is possible.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
If you like what we're all about, it just means
the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,
let's get to the show.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
It has been ten years since the city of Flint, Michigan,
was poisoned with lead, and there is one journalist I
know who never gave up on the story, never left
the story, and has continued to break explosive news about
what was an unbelievable criminal cover up and conspiracy that
(00:48):
did poison an entire American town. That would be Jordan
Cheriton of Status Kup. And he has a new documentary
coming out that tells the entire story in a way
that I think has never been told before.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
What matters right now is this that that Flint River
right there is still right there, okay, And those people
that are victims of what was played on them are
still victims. The seven thousand babies are still brain dammage.
You fucked up the fact that the matter is. Now,
what do you do about it? Now? You left a
lot of people dead and laying in the street, and
(01:21):
you still got people dead and laying in the streets.
Excuse my friendship.
Speaker 5 (01:32):
They told us we were disposable.
Speaker 6 (01:34):
That's what they told us, is that we are disposable people.
Speaker 7 (01:45):
Do you think this will ever be fixed?
Speaker 4 (01:48):
No?
Speaker 8 (01:51):
And you know I don't.
Speaker 7 (01:54):
I'm never gonna see my baby again, and they're never
gonna see their loved ones again.
Speaker 6 (02:00):
I don't know how to.
Speaker 7 (02:01):
Deal with that. These aren't all elderly people. We're talking
people in there, oh, forties, fifty.
Speaker 9 (02:12):
About eight years old? Oh wow, I'm talking about I
know a young girl have breast casting, eight years.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Old, my grandson.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
He was no longer an AB student, but a d
e F student.
Speaker 10 (02:34):
Year ten of the water crisis and my eighth year
of covering this. I first went to Flint in twenty sixteen, And.
Speaker 11 (02:48):
I guess we should start from the beginning.
Speaker 12 (02:58):
What is happening here in Genesee County? And is this
cancer crisis connected to the water switch?
Speaker 7 (03:04):
Newly released data.
Speaker 12 (03:05):
From the Health Department reveals cancer rates here significantly higher
than anywhere else in the state of Michigan.
Speaker 11 (03:18):
Is the ten year anniversary of the Flint water crisis,
and it's not something from the past.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Jordan's always great to see you, Hey, thank you for
having me. Yeah, of course, So just talk to us
a little bit about what's new in this documentary and
why you felt it was so important to stay on
the story.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 11 (03:37):
I think in today's news cycle, where it's hard to
remember what happened yesterday, it is incredibly hard, since the
media stopped covering Flint long ago, to remember what Flint
is about and also realize that it's actively still a crisis,
not something from the past.
Speaker 7 (03:56):
So I've reported there.
Speaker 11 (03:58):
Twenty times since twenty six and each time I go back,
it's truly shocking and really horrifying that it's still actively
a crisis. You know, we've become numb to that word,
but it's still a crisis. And in this documentary you'll
see cancers through the roof in Flint, and it's not
from the weather, it's from the water. Teens are sadly
(04:21):
now committing suicide. They were children when they were poisoned.
There is serious, serious mental health problems, education problems, in Flint.
You'll learn that a lot of the money that Congress
and elsewhere earmarked for Flint mysteriously did not go to
Flint and water relief. So it's kind of a mix
(04:45):
of showing the active crisis, yes, the water is still toxic,
and the domino effect with the cancers, the teen suicides,
and really a city that is actively in crisis.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Tell us of what residents that you spoke with want
people to know about what has been done to them.
Speaker 11 (05:07):
For the most part, residents desperately want people to know
that they are still actively in crisis.
Speaker 7 (05:13):
Residents I speak with.
Speaker 11 (05:14):
Still ten years later get rashes from the water. Residents
I speak to still their eyes burn when they shower,
still in many cases getting smelly or discolored water. On
the other side, residents are nearly going bankrupt paying for
medical bills because they did not get universal health care
(05:35):
like some other cities with similar issues had Libby, Montana,
for example, with an asbestos disaster.
Speaker 7 (05:42):
They're predominantly white.
Speaker 11 (05:43):
They got Medicare for All for their crisis rightfully, so
Flint did not. Residents desperately want the media to pay attention.
You know, I know we're in a twenty four to seven,
never ending Trump and Russia and now you know understandably
Israel Gaza. But they even get their local media to
continue covering their issues with the water, much less national media.
(06:06):
So I think between the water, the medical problems, the children,
the Lost generation, children who are having serious learning problems,
reading problems, learning disabilities, autism on.
Speaker 7 (06:18):
The rise, and also crime is on the rise.
Speaker 11 (06:22):
We know that heavy metal poisoning, lead poisoning, there's research
to shows that could lead to higher crime. And there
is no kind of understanding or sympathy being shown to
flint teenagers or young adults that are committing crimes, not
to defend those crimes, but you know a lot of
that is because their brain was damaged and they have
volatile mood swings.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Yeah, and there is no cure, There is no recovery,
There is no moving on from lead poisoning. Talk to
us about the process of accountability of any of the
politicians who were involved. Have they been held accountable to
any extent?
Speaker 11 (06:58):
You know, it's funny all we hear about cover a
lot is all this hubbabaloo about saving democracy.
Speaker 7 (07:03):
Well, how's this for democracy? A US city.
Speaker 11 (07:07):
Of one hundred thousand people was poisoned a decade ago,
and not one government official, private and individual has been
held accountable. Not one has even seen a jury, and unfortunately,
it does not seem anyone will be held accountable.
Speaker 7 (07:22):
Not to get two in the weeds.
Speaker 11 (07:24):
But Attorney General Dana Essel of Michigan, she is a
beloved you know MSNBC resistance hero for some of the
cases she brought against Republicans the election scheme, but she
basically tanked the criminal investigation the Michigan State Supreme Court
throughout her offices criminal prosecution, stating that they essentially violated
(07:47):
the state constitution in the way they brought it. As
a result, former Governor Rick Snyder's charges were thrown out.
Eight other state officials charges were thrown out. In many cases,
the statute of limitations has passed those crimes, and as
we speak, the criminal investigation has ended, so it seems
no one will be held criminally accountable.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Jordan, Lastly, what do you think that this story tells
us about America?
Speaker 11 (08:14):
I think the story of Flint tells us about America
that the capitalist system, if you're in the wrong city
at the wrong time, if you have leaders that want
to you know, run government like a business, throw emergency managers,
which are unelected czars to take over power, try to
you know, privatize things, which is what led to this.
Speaker 7 (08:35):
The government is not going to help you, really help you.
Speaker 11 (08:39):
If you are poisoned, whether it's water, whether it's fracking, mining,
whether a train blows up in your town in Ohio,
you know you'll get some kind of artificial surface help
and that the headlines will say you're getting money, but
at the end of the day, they will leave you
to slowly die. And that's what's happening in Flint, between
the cancer and other illnesses from lead and other things
(09:00):
that we're in that water. It's basically a city that's
been abandoned by the government and the media.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
And there are so many places like that around the
country which you have done maybe a better job than
anyone on covering and staying with the story even after
a lot of the cameras go away. Thank you for
joining us, Thank you for doing this incredible work on
the documentary, and thank you also for letting us post
this on our channel. We're really proud to be able
to premiere this and show off the work that you've
(09:28):
done and bring this story to you to the country,
So everybody make sure you check out Jordan's documentary and
any last thoughts Jordan or any additional advice on how
to follow your work.
Speaker 7 (09:40):
And thank you to breaking points.
Speaker 11 (09:41):
There are no mainstream media outlets that are willing to
stay on Flint, so you're not a mainstream outlet and
that's why you're airing it. Yes, you can check out
and subscribe to Status Coup on YouTube Status coup where
we cover Flint, East Palestine and many similar stories, and
you could support our work at status cu dot com, slash.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Join statisticcou dot com. Guys, go check it out. They
do really important work that is totally overlooked by the
mainstream press.
Speaker 13 (10:10):
Jordan always great to see and talk to you. Thank you, sir.
Speaker 7 (10:20):
So.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
One thing we have been covering here for quite a
while is the massive role in the US and really
global economy of the behemoth Amazon. So we're lucky to
be joined this morning by an author of a new
book about that corporate giant. The title is The Everything War,
Amazon's ruthless quest to own the world and remake corporate power.
The author is Dana Mattioli. She's a Wall Street Journal
(10:43):
Amazon reporter, and she joins us. Now, Dana, great to
meet you and welcome.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
Good to see you, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah, of course, So tell us what is sort of
the core thesis of the book.
Speaker 8 (10:53):
Yeah, the book tracks Amazon's rise from this garage startup
to really the most dominant force in corporate America, but
the world of writ large, its effects on the economy,
job creation, competition, and how it's found itself in the
center of this monopoly lawsuit because of the habit it's
reaped across different industries. So it's an investigation to the
(11:15):
company's business practices and the results of it having accumulated
so much power.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
One of the things that you go into data is
about monopoly itself and the definition. I'm wondering if you
could lay that out from our audience, because I know
it's a bit complicated, But what's the effect of that
and how regulators are looking at the power of Amazon.
Speaker 5 (11:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (11:35):
So these anti trust laws were first derived in the
Gilded Age to stop the trust like standard oil, and
for years, in the years decades it was enforced to
allow competition, to protect smaller rivals to compete.
Speaker 5 (11:48):
There was a change in the way that it was
enforced in the nineteen seventies and eighties.
Speaker 8 (11:52):
Where the lens shifted to looking at these laws and
competition through its effect on prices and efficiency. Companies were
offering low prices and they could be more efficient. There
was a standard of letting that happen, and we stopped defending,
you know, David versus Goliath so vehemently, and that's sort
of given rise to companies like Amazon. In the early days,
(12:14):
in particular, it was known as this low cost retailer.
So as long as it was offering low prices for consumers,
it was allowed to get away with lots of other
types of behavior that would have been enforced in years past.
Speaker 5 (12:25):
And you see that throughout big tech with Google and
Apple and Facebook as well.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
So one of the things that you point to an
anecdote that you have in the story just so people
can get like a finer point on the type of
behavior you're talking about, is how when Amazon decided they
wanted to go into the food business and have a
private label, their approach was just to higher up some
former Trader Joe's execs and be like, give us everything
(12:52):
you have about what their top items are and we're
just going to copy them, and that's what we're going
to do to just tell us about that anecdote and
how that connects to their typical business practices.
Speaker 8 (13:03):
So in twenty fifteen, Amazon was launching this food brand
called Wickedly Prime, and they wrote this paper internally to
Pitchet to management and it said, we want to replicate
the top two hundred items at Trader Joe's. Problem was
they didn't know what those items were. So they set
out and hired this executive from Trader Joe's, didn't really
tell her what she'd be working on, and her first
(13:24):
week in Seattle, she stumbles across this very secretive conference room.
It has brown paper covering the windows in the door
so no one could see inside, and she walks in
and it's filled with boxes or Trader joe Snacks, the
exact area that she worked in at Trader Joe's. She
starts getting alarmed, and from there her manager starts pressuring
her to give any sorts of documents she had retained
(13:46):
from her employment at Trader Joe's, even though she has
an NDA and whatnot.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
She caves to the pressure.
Speaker 8 (13:52):
She gives them an Excel spreadsheet with the top items
from Trader Joe's, the sales volume over the course of
a week. But then he just keeps hounding Graces. I
want the margins data, he screams at her. She cries
in the middle of Amazon's headquarters. And someone reported this
to legal so the people that were involved did get
let go. But everyone I've spoken to has said this
(14:13):
was so indicative of the pressure people at Amazon are
under to perform. They need to improve their numbers, they
need to hit their targets because at the end of
the year, the bottom six percent gets cut, and that
has effects on the type of behavior that play out
across the company. And this is like not an isolated
incident by any means.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Right well, And in this instance, they didn't have access
to the Trader joe information, and it's not something that
you can get publicly, So their approach was, all right,
we're going to hire this person and we're just going
to steal the information and then we're going to copy it.
But in lots of cases, you know, they have this
giant marketplace with lots of independent sellers.
Speaker 13 (14:49):
They can see exactly which.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Products are selling really well and performing really well among
their customers. They can replicate those products, and then they
can use their own algorithm to make sure that when
a shopper is looking for something like that product, it's
not that original independent sellers product who gets pushed. It's
their business line that gets pushed, so that they get
(15:11):
to reap the benefits of every aspect of this marketplace.
Speaker 5 (15:15):
And they've been doing that for years.
Speaker 8 (15:16):
The book gets into details about how, first of all,
Amazon has unprecedented access to data not just from its sellers,
but its rivals. It's partners that you see time and
time again in really shocking ways, Amazon uses that information
to undercut them and to reverse engineer their hits and
claim it as their own. On the private label side,
they were spying on their sellers, taking their data on
(15:39):
about what's selling well, and then reverse engineering it in
shins in and just putting some of these sellers out
of business. But we also saw that the on the
VC arm, you know Amazon, because they're so big there,
there's many tentacle octopus with such big market share everywhere.
Founders come and pitch them on an acquisition or funding,
and so many of the people I spoke to came
(16:00):
out of those meetings saying was that a deal making
talk or was that corporate espionage?
Speaker 4 (16:06):
M Wow?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Fascinating, David, So in the future, what do you expect
now that Amazon is already what is it, the second
largest employer in the United States, Their power is only increasing.
They are eventually going to brush up against actual legislative
action or even the FTC. Where do you see the
future going for Amazon right now?
Speaker 8 (16:27):
So, the FTC filed a lawsuit against Amazon saying that
you're a monopoly. It will go to court in twenty
twenty six, so that's still some times away from here.
But what's kind of interesting to me is that they
don't seem at all rattled. They Andy Jasse, the CEO
right now, has told his deputies that we could be
a ten trillion dollar company. Their general counsel a few
(16:49):
weeks after this lawsuit was filed against Amazon, got on
stage in All Hands and was asked about his outlook
for the monopoly lawsuit, and he said, haters are.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
Going to hate, going to shake it off. So we
just quoted, you know, Taylor Swift. So they really don't seem.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Phased or to have any shame about ringe comments like that. Dane,
My last question for you is just to give the
other side, like, you know, there's a lot of people
who love Amazon, who are like Amazon's amazing and they're
super convenient, and guess what, Like they did amazing and
they grew to such size because people really like what
they had to offer and it's super cool that I
can get you know, my toilet paper delivered next day
(17:25):
or whatever. And you know something I saw you got
a question about before. You got a lot of independent
sellers who may be in some small town in Kansas
or wherever, and now they're able to each reach this
global marketplace. Isn't that glorious for them? So what's your
response there?
Speaker 8 (17:41):
I would say for consumers, we should be thinking about
at what costs? So what was very telling to me
is I went back to some of Amazon's earliest employees
from the nineteen nineties, the people.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
That helped build this machine.
Speaker 8 (17:52):
They've become fabulously wealthy from their stock options at the time, right,
I mean, they're living really well, and I've gone back
to them to say, like, how do you.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
Fel about the company now?
Speaker 8 (18:01):
So many of them have canceled their prime accounts, a
lot of them avoid Amazon wherever they can, and some
of them have even said I feel like I helped
build a monster.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
Like they have regrets about this.
Speaker 8 (18:11):
They worry about its impact on innovation, main street, the economy.
I mean, if you look at just the jobs in
retail in twenty eighteen, there's a net loss of seven
hundred thousand retail jobs according to one study, and then
between twenty one and twenty seventeen, half a million department
store jobs were evaporated. That's eighteen times as many as
(18:32):
they were lost in coal mining, to give you an example, right,
And that's just one of their tentacles. And you know,
when I speak to those CEOs, the mall retailer CEOs,
the CEOs of the department stores, of the other retailers,
they point directly at Amazon.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Really a lot to think about. I recommend everybody go
and buy the book. We'll have a link in the description.
Thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah, great to have you, Dana, Thank you, Thank you
very much.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Welcome to Breakpoints Beyond the Headlines.
Speaker 7 (19:05):
My name is James Lee.
Speaker 6 (19:06):
Joining us today is Jen Peerlman. She is running against
Debbie Wasserman Schultz in the Democratic primary to represent Florida's
twenty fifth congressional district.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Jen Welcome to the show.
Speaker 13 (19:15):
Thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker 6 (19:17):
Of course, of course, first question has to be I think,
why are you running? Because we all know that the
Democratic Party probably doesn't want you to run. So tell
us what makes your candidacy different than that of your opponent,
Debbie Wasserman Schultz.
Speaker 14 (19:32):
Okay, So the main reason that I ran in twenty
and the same reason that I'm running now is this
idea of transforming politics into service, this idea that this
is supposed to be a term of service and not
a career, and it is certainly not meant to be.
Speaker 13 (19:46):
A lucrative career.
Speaker 14 (19:48):
So the idea of having somebody in there in representing
this district that is not behold into the military industrial complex,
big pharma, APAC, you name, it is very appealing to
a lot of people in the district. And some people, yes,
there's policy and stuff that they're concerned with, but I
(20:08):
got to tell you, for the most part, what people
want is to get rid of the corruption and as
somebody who isn't looking for a second career and doesn't
need this job and generally gets like a five year, itch.
This is not this is not a career choice for me.
It has to be like, I'm not gonna sit there.
And the only reason I feel like it's hard right
(20:30):
now is unseating a corporate incumbent that's backed by APAC.
Speaker 13 (20:34):
Right, this is about.
Speaker 14 (20:36):
Unseating a corporate monolith and returning this seat and potentially
even the state of Florida to people that may have
its best interest at heart over people that do not.
Speaker 6 (20:48):
I wanted to ask you. You brought up APAX several times,
so I wanted to ask you. Recently, they've been openly
bragging about their influence in Congress, whether with the big
build now to Israel, and also how their support basically
get and tease election to Congress and your opponent takes
millions from a pack. And there's been a lot written about.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
This as well.
Speaker 6 (21:07):
How much control do you think pro Israel lobbies have
on members of Congress?
Speaker 7 (21:13):
Oh?
Speaker 14 (21:13):
I think they seem to own them. They seem to
own actually all three branches of government and the fourth estate.
I find it terrifying. Everybody should be asking themselves why
isn't APAC registered as a foreign agent? Why is APAC
the only lobbying group on behalf of a foreign entity
that does not have to have his lobbyist registered as
foreign agents. Why is that so they can give unlimited dollars.
Speaker 13 (21:37):
It's that's why.
Speaker 14 (21:38):
And so you know, obviously we have we're being ruled
by the zion Estate. You can always tell who's in
charge by what you're not allowed to speak out against.
So if I can sit here and I can talk
about Joe Biden, no problem. I could talk about you know,
I could talk about my congressman, no problem.
Speaker 13 (21:55):
But you talk about Israel, then that's it.
Speaker 14 (21:57):
So that's clearly who's in charge.
Speaker 13 (22:00):
I basically have told Apak to bring it. Bring it.
Speaker 14 (22:04):
You can call me a self loathing Jew. You can
do what ever you want to do. It's of no
matter to me. But I will say to people who
would like to defeat the concept that electing someone like
me as an anti Zionist Jew over someone like Debbie
would be the strongest signal message that the collectively we
(22:25):
could send to APAC. Seriously, that would be like the
biggest fu to APAC. Because right now there aren't any
anti Zionist Jews running for Congress, and I haven't seen any.
But maybe a couple even sort of maybe kind to
say something that are in there, so you know, I'm
the last thing that they want.
Speaker 6 (22:44):
Yeah, speaking of conflation of maybe anti Zionism anti Semitism
a lot. It's been going on in college campuses, most
recently at Columbia with the Gaza and campus sitting sitting.
And I also saw this morning footage from ny You
now reports of MIT tough other universities doing the exact
same thing, and some in the mainstream are really calling
(23:07):
these students terrorists. I've heard that thrown out there, some
members of Congress saying similar you know, not going as far,
but they're saying similar things, basically portraying them as not
anti Zionist protests but also anti Semitic, targeting Jews. I've
seen some videos, you know, both good and bad videos.
So I'm wondering, based on your values that you just
(23:27):
talked about, what's your reaction to what the students are doing.
Speaker 14 (23:31):
I could not be prouder like I could almost cry
like I I those kids are the future of everything.
Those kids are smart and capable and organized, like serious say,
could cry, I am so proud of those kids. They're
not even my kids. But I mean, okay, I'm old
enough to be their mother, but I feel like, you know,
(23:52):
they are doing they are kicking ass. I could not
stand a more solidready. And as far as the people
that are calling them names and calling them out, that
is called the death throws of empire and the death
rows of capital.
Speaker 13 (24:09):
And while it looks ugly, it's it's really a sign.
It's a sign. I know that people.
Speaker 14 (24:15):
You know, it's scary, you know, like what's going on
is scary, but I you know, this is this is
how it needs to be before it can be different.
And so I understand that it's very uncomfortable for people.
But like those students, that is all my goal in
life is to consolidate those people with the union, the
(24:36):
labor movement, with the environmentalist movement, with the block cop
city movement and everybody, and like that's the coalition that
we need to build. So those those kids are you know,
they're fighting for everyone. I'm very pleased with them, and
they need to I am, and I'm also will stand
in solid area with the professors that are putting their
careers on the line for standing up for these students.
(24:59):
And so you know, that is something that I yeah,
major respect.
Speaker 6 (25:04):
If you're I'm curious, if you were one of the
university presidents, how would you handle this, because it's obviously
a very controversial, it's it's uncomfortable and that they're in
a tough spot, So I'm curious, how would you handle this.
Speaker 14 (25:16):
I can actually tell you exactly how I would handle it,
because I can go back to the first time I
saw it was the mi T president and the pen
I think back like it was like a few months
ago when they were sitting in front and being questioned
by that vile woman up in New.
Speaker 13 (25:32):
York, and.
Speaker 14 (25:35):
She was asking them basically trying to get them to say, okay,
that they condone the basically that they condone the suggestion
of genocide, okay by saying that words like intifada and
phrases like from the river to the sea are chants
(25:55):
for genocide. And right there, when neither of those people
spoke up in that moment and looked her in the
face and said, nobody's calling for a genocide. That's not
what that means. And given that woman the.
Speaker 13 (26:08):
History lesson that she needed it at the time.
Speaker 14 (26:10):
I am so tired of people calling things what they
are not those chants have nothing to do with anti Semitism.
In fact, they are ethnic cleansing terms that were created
by the Lequd party in Israel. So if anybody, and
I will say this, like I say every time, every
single thing that Zionists accuse others of our only admissions
(26:33):
of stuff that they do.
Speaker 13 (26:34):
And you know they're lying when their lips are moving.
And I know this because I.
Speaker 14 (26:39):
Was trained and brainwashed and grown up all Zionist and proud,
and it's taken me about fourteen years to deprogram.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
How did you deprogram yourself? What was your journey there?
Speaker 14 (26:51):
It's you know what, It's taken a long time, and
it was it was definitely like a process. But it
started around the time of the Second Antifada, which was
also around the time that I started hearing about BDS.
And then I started hearing about anti BDS legislation.
Speaker 13 (27:09):
This was like.
Speaker 14 (27:11):
Early two thousands, and I started looking into that and
then it just sort of unfolded like a house of
cards online. Because I am someone who very much believes
in the First Amendment, and so the idea that I
am not allowed to boycott a foreign entity and also
get a contract with a city for you know, for work.
(27:33):
That seems like a violation of my first Amendment to me.
And so then I started looking into why are we
so scared of BDS? Where does that come from?
Speaker 13 (27:40):
You know? And it just it was a rabbit hole.
Speaker 14 (27:43):
And up until even twenty nineteen, I still thought that
a two state solution was possible.
Speaker 13 (27:51):
I was still what you.
Speaker 14 (27:52):
Would call they call them liberal Zionists, like you believe
that the state of Israel has a right to exist,
but you believe Palestinians should have their own state. Those people,
and then once you do the research and you realize
that there was never an intent by Zionists to have
a Palestinian state. That was always made up talking point again,
like the whole thing unraveled. And so yeah, that's my background,
(28:16):
but it's very upsetting to me. I grew up in
a working class family that would send money to Israel
to plant trees in Israel. Everything was through J and F.
I did a high school program through the Jewish National
Fund called Alexander Muss High School in Israel where they
have us planting trees and occupied territory under armed guard,
(28:36):
and we all thought.
Speaker 13 (28:37):
Oh, that's so cool.
Speaker 14 (28:38):
This guy has an assault rifle and he's traveling with us.
And as a mother, I'm thinking, if you are taking
my child somewhere where you think that they need somebody
standing over them with an assault rifle to protect them,
you are somewhere you ought not be, and therefore you
are using my child as.
Speaker 13 (28:54):
A human shield.
Speaker 14 (28:55):
That's what I think, and also as a tool of
ethnic cleansing. So my thoughts on a pack and that
they can come for me all they want. I know
all their secrets, I know all their stories, I know
all their talking.
Speaker 13 (29:08):
Points and all they have. They have money, they have money.
Speaker 14 (29:12):
You know, they'll put out tons of constant reminding people
over and over again that I support terrorists, I'm a
Hamas lover.
Speaker 13 (29:19):
You know they'll put that on repeat.
Speaker 14 (29:22):
But the problem is, at the end of the day,
it's still only going to appeal to a very small,
finite echo chamber of voters and the people that will
watched that APAC loop over and over. It's not going
to expand that group of people isn't going to just
get bigger. You're not going to all of a sudden
have somebody that cares about that issue.
Speaker 6 (29:40):
I don't think you're wrong there in terms of the
number of people supporting Israel in the same way they
have done in the past, or be smaller and smaller.
But we just saw this past weekend that doesn't really matter.
In Congress, they just you know, shove through this ninety
five billion dollars a package Ukraine Israel.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
A little bit of.
Speaker 14 (29:57):
It wouldn't have had my name on it. I could
tell you that right now. It would not have had
my name on it. And they could bundle it with
all sorts of other stuff. You could bundle it with everything,
you could put whipp cream and a cherry on top,
and I still would not sign that.
Speaker 13 (30:11):
So yeah, I saw that.
Speaker 14 (30:12):
And of course you know Debbie, she she would She
always gives them more money than they asked for.
Speaker 6 (30:18):
So then, you know, we saw some of the footage
coming out this week from the from the weekend, just
members of Congress waving foreign flags, and it looked, you know,
it was a really striking visual to see, especially since
we have been more or less gridlocked on a lot
of these domestic legislative pieces. But then they got somehow
the ability to do that, also sneaking into the TikTok band,
(30:39):
which I think is a pretty unpopular legislation for for
the American people. So then what what do you say
the folks that you know that have kind of just
given up on the electoral process and say, well, it
doesn't matter who we vote in there, there's just still going.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
To do the things that they do.
Speaker 14 (30:54):
You know what, there is no solid answer for that.
I think you got to just be chipping away at it.
I mean, look, there were there were people that didn't
sign that. There were people there were even some Jewish
congress people that didn't sign that, So you know, it
can be done. You just need to start chipping away
at the corporate tentacles that are basically holding people. And
you can only do that by electing people that don't
(31:16):
take corporate money. And then it becomes even people that
don't take corporate money, but they're still scared of being
primaried from that corporate money. So even though they're not
taking it, they're still sort of acting in accordance with it.
So there's a lot of that too. And it's look,
I don't I can't speak for anyone else, right like,
I only know how it is for me, and I
(31:39):
would just always be as transparent and really bring this
home here, what people want, what they want to see,
and not just fall in line with a party or
fall in line with anybody if it's not in the
best interest or what the majority of people really want.
Speaker 6 (31:54):
Yeah, speak seeing a political strategy. So I've noticed that
if you compare them more you can say, more extreme
members of each party, the Freedom Caucus, those guys versus
say the squad one side seems much more willing to
play hardball to kind of get what we want.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Now, where would you stand? How how would you approach politics?
Speaker 14 (32:11):
When I am sitting here and I'm on the same
page as people like Matt Gates and Marjorie Taylor Green
And this wasn't the first time, by the way. Now,
granted I will say this, her reasons for why she
would vote no to certain things are completely different than
my reasons. Okay, like that that's neither here nor there.
She doesn't want to give them money because she's worried
about China and space lasers or whatever her shit is.
(32:33):
But like their strategy of really sticking it to their
party is that's exactly what we need to be doing.
Speaker 13 (32:42):
That's exactly that's.
Speaker 14 (32:44):
The whole point of having a progressive caucus, except there's
like over one hundred people in the Progressive Caucus, but
yet only how many people signed didn't sign this resolution,
and that's barely being progressive. So no, I think that
they they are definitely feckless. I think they don't wield power.
I think they're more concerned with getting primaried. I think
that the rain Makers and the queen Bees and whoever
(33:06):
in that party just scare them and bully them. And
I don't Again, I don't know because I'm not there,
but I do know that there are a lot more
people listed in the Progressive Caucus then there are actually
seemingly progressive people. So maybe if that caucus actually stood
for something and really was a progressive caucus of actual
(33:27):
progressive people, not people that take like, let's say, big
farm and insurance money, then maybe they'd have power. But
they don't have any power because they're infiltrated by so
many different people that aren't really with them. Like there's
no what is that the squad isn't a real thing.
That's a made up term by media. That's not a
real thing.
Speaker 6 (33:48):
Yeah, when I'm looking at this whole election cycle and
in totality all the way from the top to the bottom.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
I kind of see.
Speaker 6 (33:54):
So there's a lot of people, I think gravitating towards
the more Trump like figures. The guys who are out
there saying, hey, we're going to have the best country,
the best economy, we have the jobs coming back, strong border,
a little bit of that, you could say, just trust me,
give me the keys, and I'm going to take good
care of you vibes. And then I think the other side,
the Democrats have characterized that kind of posturing is dictatorial
(34:16):
and that's why we need to vote Joe Biden.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
We got to save democracy.
Speaker 6 (34:19):
They don't really talk too much about their domestic agenda
beyond anti Trump. So what I'm curious about is, let's
say the Democrats are right. Let's say we go with
their definition. One side is dictatorship. The other side is
what maybe what you just kind of characterize as a
pseudo democratic administration that's in effect owned by many of
(34:40):
the same groups lobby I.
Speaker 14 (34:41):
Was talking about Congress. If you want to talk about
Joe now, we're not just talking now, we're talking genocidal. So, yeah,
you might have a dictator on one side, but you
got somebody genocidal on the other, but please continue.
Speaker 6 (34:51):
So then what is one side truly that different than
the other? I guess what are your thoughts on this argument?
Speaker 13 (34:57):
I think it's absurd.
Speaker 14 (34:59):
I think the fact that we're sitting here and talking
about between those two individuals in particular, that that's the
two main choices, that's a sign that we no longer
have a democracy.
Speaker 13 (35:09):
We're already there.
Speaker 14 (35:10):
People, We have so crossed over into the realm of
fascist corporate takeover of this country that I just don't
know what to tell you anymore. But the fact that
that's the choice, what are you scared?
Speaker 13 (35:22):
Seriously?
Speaker 14 (35:23):
And the thing is the people that truly do I
have found this And I have been dialing for dollars
a lot lately, so I talk to a lot of
people on the phone, and I always say, you know,
who do you like in the election? And so I'm
talking to a lot of.
Speaker 13 (35:35):
People, and without without fail, the.
Speaker 14 (35:39):
People whose primary concern is about Trump are more privileged people.
Speaker 13 (35:44):
Without fail, the.
Speaker 14 (35:46):
People who are struggling, working, whatever they it's they don't
even mention Trump. They mention they mentioned healthcare, they mentioned
in clean water, they mention wars, they mention those things.
So the people that are really so scared of Trump
at this point are really a small group of people,
(36:06):
and it is an establishment, democratic, very elitist group of people,
and they are completely out of touch with regular people
because when you talk to like vulnerable people or in
any moment, so for example, Palestinians at the moment, I'm
pretty sure that there's nothing worse than somebody who's participating
(36:28):
in genociding their family. I'm pretty sure that there's no
worse than that, like that, that's as bad as You're
not going to scare them with anything at this point.
So you look at the most vulnerable and oppressed people
at any time, and look at from their perspective, what's
their perspective on who would be worse? Not who would
be worse for rich you know, you know, elitist America.
Speaker 13 (36:50):
That doesn't concern me. You look at it for what
would be worse for the least of these. And I
am telling you from someone who.
Speaker 14 (36:58):
Has been in the streets with the least of these
for the better part of the past five years. It
is six to one half a dozen of the other
between those two people, I assure you.
Speaker 6 (37:08):
Before I let you go, I want to talk about
your campaign specifically. So you ran twenty twenty also against W.
Wasserman Schultz.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
You lost.
Speaker 6 (37:15):
I think the vote count was about fifty five k
for her, twenty one for you, seventy thirty split. So
this time in twenty twenty four, what are you trying
to do differently? What do you see as your path
to victory? You know, between now in August twentieth, what
are the kinds of things that you and your campaign
are doing to strategically try to close that gap?
Speaker 14 (37:33):
Okay, So let me be very clear, even though I
didn't run in twenty two, I have been working canvassing
in this district for the past four years, whether it
was for women's reproductive freedom, whether it was for other
candidates whatever. Okay, So just the amount of community ties,
name recognition, build up all of that connections in city
(37:55):
commission seats that weren't there four years ago, people that
are in positions were other people used to put their
hands on the wait for Debbie, hands on the scale
for Debbie. Just a lot of things in played there,
also just having my podcast having more name recognition. But
our district lines have also changed, and the entire Dade
(38:18):
County portion that used to be in our district, which
is coastal, affluent, very Jewish. That entire portion is no
longer in our district, and instead we gained an area,
a town called Mirramar, which is very working class, canvasible,
regular people, heavy Latino, a lot of Haitian islander you know,
(38:41):
working people, but most importantly canvasible because the rich, hoity
toity high rises that got cut out of our district
were areas that we couldn't even canvas as a grassroots campaign.
So the only way in those is TV and mailers,
which we could do a couple but she's able to
like flood it.
Speaker 13 (38:59):
So to get rid of.
Speaker 14 (39:00):
Portions of the district that aren't canvassible is a huge
gain for us. But then you also look at the
demographic that she lost. She lost, she lost a lot.
Speaker 13 (39:10):
Of wealthy Jewish people.
Speaker 14 (39:12):
It's actually where I'm from is the part of the
district that's no longer in district where I grew up
is that, and so what we gained is not that.
So the demographic has changed, uh as well. That is
also in favor of people fighting for working class issues.
Speaker 13 (39:29):
So there's been a lot of different variables.
Speaker 14 (39:32):
And honestly, what's going on in Gaza is that that
makes it almost a perfect storm in terms of the
people that have been reaching out to me and wanting
to support me, and people especially in the Muslim community
that aren't overly politically involved normally, but are very organized
(39:52):
and involved right now. And I just feel like the
tide is turning. It just feels it just feels it
just different this time. And again it's still it's still
an uphill battle to unseat and incumbent, you know what
I mean, it's by no means, it's by no means,
just like a gimme no matter what. But I definitely
know that we have made huge advancements in terms of
(40:14):
my presence in the community as well as national for
fundraising and name recognition. I actually have a team this time,
which is amazing because last time it was my business
partner and I and it was just the two of
us basically, and we had some people helping us do stuff,
but were we It's.
Speaker 13 (40:31):
This is so much better to have.
Speaker 14 (40:32):
It's so nice to have a campaign manager, it's so
nice to have a finance person. It's just it's like,
it's it feels almost luxurious to me. So I feel
like the way that I did it the first time,
being so insane, made it that.
Speaker 13 (40:44):
Maybe this is why it's easy or feels easier to me.
Speaker 14 (40:48):
Maybe that's why, like people, maybe if you start this way,
you're just used to having a campaign manager and a
comms person and all that.
Speaker 13 (40:55):
I don't. We're not used to that.
Speaker 14 (40:57):
So I definitely feel like there's a team of people
working really really hard, and I'm it's yeah, it's inspiring.
Speaker 6 (41:05):
Where can people find more information about your campaign if
they're interested in learning more perhaps even getting involved.
Speaker 14 (41:11):
Oh for sure at gen j e N twenty twenty
four dot org and go there, sign up. All of
the links are social media are on there. I do
not want to begin to tell you what all the
social media handles are.
Speaker 13 (41:24):
I just I can't. So go to GEN twenty twenty
four dot org.
Speaker 14 (41:29):
And if you're local by any chance and you would
like to help locally, we'd love to have you sign
up and show up in an event or something like
that too. But anybody can volunteer from anywhere. And if
you want to even host a fundraiser, we can do
those on Zoom. If you have like a group of
people that you think would be interested in having a chat,
you know, like I could be you know, I do GEN,
(41:49):
I could do GEN talks for hire. There we just
there're zoom fundraisers and we have a few different things
coming up that are that are going to be fun.
Speaker 9 (41:57):
Uh.
Speaker 14 (41:57):
We're going to be having a Jess Eventura fundraise her
that he's going to do for us. And that's the
one coming up that is a public it will be
a public thing soon.
Speaker 4 (42:07):
All right.
Speaker 6 (42:08):
Well, Jen Perlman, everybody, we appreciate you for joining us
today on breaking points.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Best of luck on the campaign, GRIP.
Speaker 7 (42:13):
Thank you.
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