8/7/24: Morning Joe Weeps Over Walz, Trump Loses It On Kamala VP, Cenk Debates Pro-Trump Lawyer, AIPAC Defeats Cori Bush, Elon Says UK Civil War Imminent

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,
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Speaker 3 (00:20):
But enough with that, let's get to the show. Good morning,
and welcome to Counterpoints. Emily. How you doing.

Speaker 4 (00:28):
I'm good, We're matching. We have a matching color scheme too.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Look at that. It wasn't even intentional. You're welcome everyone, excellent,
great work.

Speaker 5 (00:35):
By the way, we've got Breakingpoints dot com to go
to your get your premium, premium subscription, whatever you want
to call it. Support this, support this show. Yesterday I
did an AMA with Sager. People were asking about the
Friday Show because of the election and everything.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
We're still doing the Friday Show.

Speaker 5 (00:51):
We did not kind of fold it up because of
the travel, the convention's coming up in the election, We're
not going to do the exact same format where we have,
you know, those kind of long form debates for the.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
Next we'll do a few of those.

Speaker 5 (01:03):
Yeah, and then after the election, I think we'll go
back to that kind of format.

Speaker 4 (01:07):
We're recalibrating based on the insane news cycle.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
It's it's crazy. It won't love it. We love it,
though we love it.

Speaker 4 (01:15):
We hope you love it. But it's just been insane.
There's no way to, you know, schedule something for a
Friday that is like a shelf life.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
Is two days long, right, But you love to see it,
you really love to see it.

Speaker 5 (01:26):
You love to see Yesterday I filled in for Crystal
on the day that Tim Wallas was announced as the Pick.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
Saga seemed down.

Speaker 5 (01:36):
The vibes are down from this side of the desk,
but so curious how how you respond to the kind
of the joyful Walls Pick where he's at once uniting
the country but uniting them behind bullying.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
Jd Vance that's pretty funny.

Speaker 4 (01:50):
I got you. Our our favorite friends at the Trotsky
World Socialist website sent a great headline this morning next
to a couple of other ones like got people right
wing you know panic about Tim Walls. They send out
from World Socialist website. Kamala Harris picks right wing governors.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
That you love to see it for the trotsky Is.
It's a right wing party, so you love to see it.
You're gonna do.

Speaker 6 (02:13):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (02:14):
It's Corey Bush lost her election last night. We're going
to talk about that in a little bit. What else
we got.

Speaker 4 (02:19):
We've got Corey Bush, We've got a panel, a really
good panel that's going.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
To talk to you and Will Chamberlain going to debate
the Walls pick.

Speaker 4 (02:26):
We're going to debate the Walls pick. There's a lot
to talk about. Like you mentioned when we were talking
about Corey Busch and Elon Musk is predicting a civil
war in the UK.

Speaker 3 (02:36):
Of civil wars, but he's.

Speaker 4 (02:38):
Really predicting a civil war to the point where sometimes
your predictions get to skirt the line of materializing.

Speaker 7 (02:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:46):
Yeah, So he's in a back and forth with Keir Starmer.

Speaker 5 (02:49):
Yes, those riots continue unfold and basically anti immigrant riots
continue unfold in the UK.

Speaker 4 (02:57):
Yeah, absolutely, It's it's actually a fairly interesting story. So
we will get to that, but first let's start with
the news of the day. The news. Everybody's talking about
Tim Walls. Some people are still trying to figure out
who Tim Walls is. But we've had like a day
to get really acquainted with him. Ryan, You're reporting on
Walls has gone back a while. You've at the intercept

(03:18):
you guys were reporting on Tim Walls. There's a lot
to say about him. The rally yesterday, Kamala Harris kind
of got to formally introduce Walls to the country. Let's
take a look at a one here. There they are
just looking like Ryan, you mentioned this, he looks so
much like a social studies You said, he looks so
much like a football coach. And then I said, he

(03:38):
looks so much like a social studies teacher who is
also a football coach.

Speaker 5 (03:43):
A coach Walls, and he looks like the kind of
coach you'd want to have, Like the not the mean coach,
but the one who's a little tough but happy, joyful
the whole time. Like I've seen a whole bunch of
people saying, like, where the heck did they get this guy?
He's so out of perfect central casting for a politician
made in a lab.

Speaker 6 (04:03):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (04:04):
He's, you know, like you said, social studies teacher, military
who becomes a coach whose team wins the state championship
in a in a Midwestern state. He's military, but he's
not uh not not really. He didn't go in as
an officer, but he's not. And he went in as
and his listed men. And they're like, if you're gonna
make him in a labor how about a sergeant major, boom,

(04:24):
sergeant major, give him an injury that he overcomes through
the youth, you know, through his nationalized health care.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
Uh, make him a dog lover.

Speaker 5 (04:32):
How about a cat lover to throw that in two
cute kids.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (04:37):
And then as and and as a you know, driving
driving him innivan, hunting, doing doing all the Americana stuff,
but then also being uh culturally socially quite liberal and
and and but then helping to enact a a sweeping
kind of working class agenda, you know, the left wing
working class agenda through the Minnesota legislature, but then also

(04:59):
the left wing socialist and so it's it's going to
be wild to see, you know, how that unfolds, because
you know, Democrats couldn't kind of have a better mascot
for I think their kind of politics.

Speaker 4 (05:11):
Yeah, it's it's an interesting combination. We'll talk more about it.
I'm sure this again, there's just a lot to say
about how you can combine populous economics with or how
you can sort of try politically to combine populist economics
with either cultural conservatism or cultural progressivism. Here's a flavor
of how the rally went. This is Kamala Harris, a

(05:33):
mashup of sort of some of the things she had
to say about what coach Walls.

Speaker 8 (05:36):
I guess as that Tim Walls will be ready on
day one.

Speaker 4 (05:46):
In fact, in fact.

Speaker 8 (05:49):
When you compare his resume, said Trump's running mate.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
Well, well, well, some.

Speaker 8 (06:11):
Might say it's like it's like a matchup between the
varsity team and the JV squad.

Speaker 9 (06:27):
JD Vance literally literally wrote the foreword for the Architect
of the Project twenty twenty five agenda. Like all regular
people I grew up with in the heartland. JD studied
at Yale, had his career funded by Silicon Valley billionaires,

(06:48):
and then wrote a bestseller trashing that community.

Speaker 3 (06:51):
Come on, that's not what Middle America is.

Speaker 9 (06:56):
And I gotta tell you, I can't wait to debate
the guy, that is, if he's willing.

Speaker 6 (07:01):
To get off the couch and show up. So you
see what I did.

Speaker 4 (07:07):
There's sort of like he's being played by Chris Farley.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
Yeah, but it's Tim.

Speaker 4 (07:16):
It's like a cross between Chris Farley and Rob Ford. Yeah,
when he says, see what I did there and then
makes that kind of grin to.

Speaker 5 (07:22):
The camera, and you know what, Rob Ford and Chris
Farley having common people love him.

Speaker 3 (07:26):
That's true. No, that's not the only thing that's true.

Speaker 4 (07:31):
So we also have so that That was Tim Moll's
comment Harris obviously in Philadelphia.

Speaker 3 (07:36):
Well before they oda Shapiro. Yeah, let's talk.

Speaker 5 (07:39):
I'm curious for what your initial reaction was because the
very end, everybody watching this show is probably actually, I
don't know, we have a very broad cross section of
viewers at this point.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
I was about to say that.

Speaker 5 (07:50):
Everybody watching this show is online enough that they got
the couch reference.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
Yea, I think that's true.

Speaker 5 (07:56):
If you didn't go in the comments section, I'm curious
and tell me if you didn't. It's funny to even
try to explain the couch reference. So I'm not even
going to.

Speaker 3 (08:04):
But it's an.

Speaker 5 (08:05):
Online meme's it's a way that the left has kind
of been bullying jd Vance and he went there, but
he did it with a big midwestern Minnesota and ice
smile on his face, which is that people are like,
that's not Minnesota and ice. It's like, no, that is
Minnesota and ice. You tell me more, you know, the
Midwestern nice more. But there's a there's a there's a

(08:29):
sharpness to it as well.

Speaker 6 (08:32):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (08:33):
I don't know about that. I feel like there's a
sharpness to Southern hospitality. None of the Southerners are going
to get upset with me, whereas the Midwesterners.

Speaker 3 (08:39):
It's pretty genuine. But yeah, yeah, bless your heart.

Speaker 4 (08:42):
Yeah yeah, but it's a way of saying f you, right, yeah,
producer mac he can tell us more about the accuracy
of that assessment. But yeah, the couch thing, I saw
a lot of sort of centrists freaking out about last night.
I don't know if you saw any of that on AX.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
It was very much.

Speaker 4 (09:00):
Some people were just like, this is a really bad sign, right,
this is a unity ticket that is now you know,
making couch jokes at JD Vance and you know, while
they are up here claiming the mantle of happy, go
lucky and unifying, which the media then granted them and said.
You know, a lot of people were like this was
the perfect note. They hit all the perfect notes, and

(09:22):
then you know, at the same time he's making jokes
about the couch. Some people were like, this is a
sign that we have all sort of we're all now
scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
It's just a meme. It's just a meme.

Speaker 4 (09:33):
It's a dumb meme. I don't even think it's a
good meme.

Speaker 3 (09:36):
But it's just a meme. It's a fault because the
AP did it. Is they strisanded it.

Speaker 5 (09:41):
Yeah, the AP did a fact check that you can find,
and then people and then retracted their fact check, which
if they hadn't retracted the fact.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
Check, we might not be where we are today. Yet, yeah,
we are right now.

Speaker 4 (09:57):
They were in Philadelphia, and everyone thought that meant it
was going to be jos Shapiro. And now, of course
Joshapiro didn't want the job. He did not want the job,
it must be said. He was really on the fence
about whether he should leave his very critical role with
Pensylvania Vania governor. And I joke about that because it
seemed to clearly be leaking from his camp that as

(10:18):
soon as he realized the writing was on the wall,
Kamala Harris was going to go with someone else. He
started signaling counter signaling, maybe I don't want the job
now in Philadelphia. Of course, even though you're not picking Joshapiro,
you still kind of have to have Jos Shapiro speak
otherwise it's weird. So here is Jos Shapiro doing his
best Obama impression. And if you're listening to this, you

(10:39):
should also note that he is not wearing a tie.
Sager obviously can hear that, but if you don't have
Sager's ability to just hear tielessness through audio, he's not
wearing a tie, and he's doing his very best Obama impression.

Speaker 3 (10:51):
Obama used to tile at rallies.

Speaker 4 (10:54):
It's just across the board, a cringe Obama impression.

Speaker 3 (10:59):
Take a look.

Speaker 10 (11:00):
And I want you to know I am going to
continue to pour my heart and soul into serving you
every single day as your governor, and and I'm going
to be working my tail off to make sure we

(11:22):
make Kamala Harris and Tim Wallas the next leaders of
the United States of America.

Speaker 5 (11:31):
That's right, Democrats of a certain age, John Ossoff does
a good Obama.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
Buddha Judge was doing it for a while.

Speaker 5 (11:40):
I think he developed his own I guess he doesn't
hit the stump. We'll see if he still has the
Obama as he hits the stump for the reelection campaign
or not re election with election campaign of Paris. We
see him mostly on CNN and MSNBC and Fox, and
that's he's his own kind of rhetorical dude there.

Speaker 3 (12:00):
But yeah, on the stump, he was very Obama.

Speaker 5 (12:01):
It's a and it's like a particular, like twenty twelve
flavor of Obama.

Speaker 3 (12:07):
But I mean he's also a good speaker.

Speaker 5 (12:08):
And he's been pressed about this, Shapiro has and he said, look, yet,
it's not a criticism. Obama is the greatest order Democratic
parties had fifty years. So I'm proud to be compared
to him. It's like, well, it's not exactly what people
are saying.

Speaker 4 (12:20):
It's just way too close. It's so obvious. It's just
the way he even is modifying his tone of voice.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
It's just two it's ridiculus. And the way that Obama
would do it's like a single white female thing.

Speaker 5 (12:31):
Obama would do like the southern accent, and you'd always
be like Obama, where's that coming from? And the y'all
and the you grew up in Hawaii, Kansas, but Hawaii.

Speaker 4 (12:42):
When Hillary Clinton would do it, that was yes.

Speaker 5 (12:45):
But then for Josh Shapiro from sper in Philadelphia to
be doing the southern accent that he's drawing from Obama,
it's like, what are what are we doing here?

Speaker 3 (12:54):
What are we?

Speaker 5 (12:55):
Which is which helps to explain why Walls resonates with
people because he as you can tell, he's not trying
to be anybody else, right, or maybe he's trying to
be an archetype of a football coach, but he's been
doing that his whole life, and he just fits it
so perfectly that you can tell he just feels comfortable
in his skin up there.

Speaker 6 (13:15):
Right.

Speaker 4 (13:16):
So actually that's a good point because one of the
things we wanted to put up on the screen here
is a five. This is Jackie Heinrich of Fox News, saying,
two sources confirm on background. The deciding factor in the
VP's choice was what Senator Fetterman said publicly, concerned Shapiro's
own personal ambitions would cause him to upstage slash override Harris.
The video Shapiro produced with Philly Mayor Schrell Parker's team

(13:39):
solidified this sentiment. On Friday, and absolutely as that video leaked,
everyone said, oh, it's a done deal, done in dusted,
It's Shapiro Philadelphia, the video has been made. Here we go.
And yet if we put the next element up on
the screen, this is a five B. This is one
of the leaks. I was referencing early that after Shapiro

(14:03):
and Harris met on Sunday when she was doing her
Apprentice interviews with the candidates, Shapiro then leaked that he
called Harris's team and said he was quote struggling with
this decision to leave his current job as governor of
Pennsylvania in order to seek the vice presidency. So he
got bad vibes and he made sure the press.

Speaker 3 (14:22):
New pulls, you know, pulling out of contention. Good move.

Speaker 5 (14:26):
Yes, And apparently when when coach was asked, when Coach
Wallas was asked by Harris like what he wanted to
do as vice president, he said, you know you you
tell me, coach, You tell me, coach, like, just put.

Speaker 3 (14:41):
Me out on the field and I'll do what you
need to do.

Speaker 5 (14:43):
Where Shapiro has ideas, can't have ideas, and Kamala Harris
has been just you know, pushed around and given the
worst trek of the Biden administration, as Biden was given
the worst trek of the Obama administration. And so she
wants this crap roll downhill and land on Walls. And
he sounded like happy to take it. She's like, here

(15:05):
we go, yeah, scout. He also said, according to I
Think Politico, he's at the end of his career. Nothing left,
fight for, no no, no personal ambitions. Yeah, he's sixty
she's fifty nine. He'll be sixty eight in two terms.
If by some miracle you can imagine Harris administration serving

(15:27):
two terms, which is young.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
That's spring chicken, compared.

Speaker 4 (15:32):
To our current leadership class.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
Yeah, which he just joined. Absolutely.

Speaker 5 (15:36):
Now, the football coach life expectancy is like sixties.

Speaker 3 (15:41):
Jeez. That's so dark.

Speaker 5 (15:43):
I mean, I don't know what it is, but the
heart attacks they get the football coaches.

Speaker 4 (15:49):
So morning, Joe, I think, reflected the sentiments yesterday that
a lot of the Beltway was feeling when Walls was announced.
You've got to take a look at this morning Joe
meltdown again.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
It seems like it was this.

Speaker 4 (16:06):
If you wanted to take the temperature of the beltwegh yesterday,
this segment did a good job of capturing what people
felt here in Washington, DC after Shapiro was passed over.

Speaker 11 (16:15):
For Walls, Well, exactly, candidate has to make the decisions herself.
And I will tell you the candidate I'm most comfortable
with is a candidate that helps me win Pennsylvania in
twenty twenty four. So let us help Jonathan lemere that
those outside of Pittsburgh loves Tim Walls.

Speaker 6 (16:36):
So talk about Walls.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
Let's talk about how the decision not made, the road
not take. And Josh Shapiro, a guy that has approval
ratings in the sixties in Pennsylvania, the must win state
for both campaigns, and also the one who was considered
the front runner for a very long time. But then
there was a backlash, and we heard backlash. There was

(17:02):
a very public campaign against Josh Shapiro, and and and
really ugly whisper campaign against Josh Shapiro. And and it's
it's unfortunately, uh, it's that's something that is now hanging
over this.

Speaker 5 (17:21):
Can I make one point, and I don't want to
tell Morning Joe how to do their job, but there
was not actually a loud campaign against Josh Shapiro. There
were people on Twitter against Josh Shapiro, but elected officials,
people with power organizations like which of them came out
against Josh Shapiro in the Democratic Coalition apparently.

Speaker 4 (17:43):
Behind the scenes reporting now says Nancy Pelosi and others,
but not.

Speaker 5 (17:47):
In the Pelosi support of walls right. But what he's
talking about is this a genocide, Josh, like the attacks
on Shapiro over his Israel policy. And I'm questioning the
premise that there was actually like a large scale national
Now there were like this show, and people like us

(18:10):
and others like raised concerns about it, like that's a thing,
but nobody with the level of access to power like
Mourning Joe said anything about Shapiro's Israel policy. In fact,
the only reason I would say that it was a
part of the national conversation was Mourning Joe and shows

(18:31):
like Morning Joe, but very specifically Morning Joe when they
would bring out John and Greenblatt from the ADL to
police criticism that was being leveled at Shapiro like on Twitter,
and for green Blat to say, this is all anti Semitism.
This reflects the rot within the Democratic Party and how
anti semitic everybody is. You know, they were elevating that

(18:55):
conversation constantly, And what that signaled to the Harris campaign
is that a choice of Shapiro would mean regular segments.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
On Mourning Joe particularly.

Speaker 5 (19:08):
But then also, you know the kind of left cable
media more broadly highlighting mean tweets about Josh Shapiro and
calling out anti Semitism in the Democratic Coalition and elevating
it and saying that this is, this is something that
needs to be rooted out from the Democratic or in
creating an intramural contest that really is manufactured, like does

(19:35):
not exist on the level that they're saying it exists.
And so I think the Harris campaign was like, you know,
we actually can avoid this entire Morning Joe driven fight.
So I think they actually cost Shapiro far more than
his critics on Twitter did.

Speaker 4 (19:52):
That's interesting because I actually that is a very interesting
point because it's hard to know behind the scenes how
seriously the hair campaign took the possibility. Obviously it was
on the table. Obviously there were people in the sort
of proverbial smoke field back rooms who were saying Josh
Shapiro's having volunteered with the non combat you know, the IDF.

Speaker 5 (20:13):
And then with none of the people who are concerned
about that are in those smoke field rooms.

Speaker 4 (20:17):
Well, but there are people in those smoke field rooms
who know that there might be people who are concerned.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
About it who might win. We're scrolling Twitter.

Speaker 4 (20:25):
Right, No, I don't disagree with that. So to what
degree that was for them a cynical calculation, you know,
or part of what is obviously always going to be
a cynical calculation, I think is an open question and
a giant sort of variable here, because you're right, it's
not as though ilhan Omar was making these decisions for

(20:46):
the Kamala Harris campaign.

Speaker 5 (20:48):
I don't remember her saying. Did she say anything about Shapiro?

Speaker 3 (20:52):
I have no idea. I doubt it. I don't I
don't think. I don't think she did so.

Speaker 4 (20:56):
And this is another thing I accidentally skipped over this element.
But it's premised on this idea that Walts is obviously
a worse candidate than Shapiro. Because you hear that in
the morning, Joe freak out. And we're going to get
to this in the GOP block too. But it's this premise,
is that Walt's is inferior as a candidate. He doesn't

(21:17):
carry the Pennsylvania votes, he's not from a swing state,
and he's just kind of a goofy football coach.

Speaker 3 (21:22):
Blah blah blah.

Speaker 4 (21:24):
So why would you go with this goofy social studies
football coach over the governor, the popular governor of a
big swing state. But let's roll a three, because I
think there is it's worth kind of comparing the political talents.
We saw Shapiro's an Obama impression. Let's watch Tim Wallas
in this video with Kamala Harris.

Speaker 12 (21:45):
Hi.

Speaker 4 (21:45):
This is Tim, It's Kamala Harris. Good morning, Governor, Good morning,
Madam Vice President.

Speaker 13 (21:52):
Listen, I want you to do this with me. Let's
let's do this together. Would you be my running mate
and let's get this thing on the road.

Speaker 9 (22:01):
I would be honored, Madam Vice President, the joy that
you're bringing back to the country, the enthusiasm that's out there.
It'll be a privilege to take this with you across
the country.

Speaker 13 (22:11):
Well, let me tell you I have just the most
respect for you. I have really enjoyed our work together.
You understand our country. You have dedicated yourself to our
country in so many different and beautiful ways.

Speaker 12 (22:25):
And we're going to do this.

Speaker 13 (22:26):
We're gonna win, and we're going to unify our country
and remind everyone that we are fighting for the future
for everyone. So let's get out there and get this done.

Speaker 6 (22:35):
Okay, let's do it, do the work in front of us.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
Let's win this thing.

Speaker 4 (22:39):
That's right, all right.

Speaker 8 (22:40):
Buddy, I'll see you, so take care, thank you, Okay, bye.

Speaker 4 (22:44):
I don't know when we decided that we needed to
film these videos. This is like when Sager and Crystal
called us to do counterpoints.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
I should have been filming it.

Speaker 4 (22:54):
It's probably over text, but you can see how the
phoniness of Josh Shapiro, who is very much like I
don't mean this ideologically, but has the sort of Gavin Newsome.
I'm pretending to be really good at talking to people,
and I'm really good at pretending to be good at
talking to people, so it's almost convincing that I'm good

(23:15):
at talking to people. Type vibes truxtupposed with whatever we
think about Tim Wallas, and we're going to get into
that in a second. I'm sure we disagree on a
lot of things about him, but he comes across as
a much more normal human being, and so I don't
know that that premise, which is that only anti Semitism
or anti Israel cynicism would motivate Harris to pick Walls.

Speaker 3 (23:37):
I don't even think that premise is.

Speaker 5 (23:39):
Correct, right and right, because progressives got the idea that wait,
it's actually possible they might pick Waltz, and so once
that was clear, I think that also ratcheted up the
attacks on Shapiro because you're it's a zero sum contest
at that point. It becomes between these Walls and Shapiro.

(24:02):
You've got to take out Shapiro if you want your
gott to elevate.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
Right right.

Speaker 5 (24:07):
Anyway, the whole question of Antie Simmonsons around that I
think is more complicated than it's being made out to be.

Speaker 3 (24:14):
We can save that for another time though.

Speaker 4 (24:16):
Well, yeah, we'll talk about that in the Goop block
because we have a clip of Ben Shapiro that I
think will open up part of that conversation because he
addresses it in and he addressed it on his show
yesterday as well. Now, if we put a seven up
on the screen, this is a shout out to Kyle.
He compiled a list, and you know there were a

(24:37):
lot of lists bouncing around actually, because the LFG mentality
of the Minnesota DFL folks, led by Tim Walls, has
actually been an LFG agenda, that's the let's f and
go agenda, which Ryan, you've followed very closely and you
can tell us more about. But it has resulted in
this insane list of bills and actions that Tim Walls

(24:59):
has signed or spearheaded just in the last couple of
years in Minnesota, and it's a very interesting collection of
both cultural progressivism and economic populism that has left right appeal.
So Rabamari wrote a piece in Compact immediately after Walls
was nominated or was picked yesterday saying that Republicans can

(25:23):
learn a lot from the economic populism of Tim Walls
and supporting a lot of Tim Walls's sort of economic agenda.
So that said, tell us Ryan a little bit about
what the Minnesota DFL folks have been doing under Walls,
because the reason he started to, I think rise to

(25:43):
the top of the surface of the candidates is people
looked at it and realized, holy smokes, yeah, what they've
been doing in Minnesota is extremely impressive.

Speaker 5 (25:51):
I wonder if he rose in spite of that, because
this is the kind of thing that would actually scare
I think national Democrats, but calmed down. Yeah, Emily and
I had talked months ago about doing a story about
how several years ago Minnesota and Iowa are both swing states,
both purple states, and to some degree Minnesota still is.

(26:13):
In the twenty eighteen election, Minnesota went blue by just
like a handful of votes and a trifecta as well
walls as governor. Democrats took control of both houses. I
think they took the House by like one seat. And
you know, these these house races are decided by hundreds
of votes, sometimes just dozens of votes. And on the
other side of the border in Iowa, a state that

(26:35):
had you know, recently had democratic governors, senators, etc.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
And would you know I did Obama win Iowa. Yeah,
I think.

Speaker 5 (26:46):
That state went republican Republican trifecta, and they pushed through
as aggressive a conservative agenda as they possibly could. But
it's it's it's the kind of mirror version of Minnesota
in the sense that it's very pro business, not the
kind of vancy and Trumpian national populism economics. And then

(27:09):
it was the you know, extremely conservative social stuff as well,
and just across the border with just a few thousand votes,
pushing the state blue. They pushed through and we can
put if we could put up this Kyle tweet again.

Speaker 3 (27:23):
As he runs it down, universal free school meals.

Speaker 5 (27:26):
That's why you see the uh, that's why you see
that picture of the kids hugging him, legal weed, carbon
free electricity by twenty forty, tax rebates for the working
class up to thirteen hundred dollars, twelve weeks paid family leave,
twelve weeks paid sick leave, and then he so then
he banned conversion theories and pro trans stuff, twelve weeks

(27:48):
read gun and then he did gun stuff. Free public
college for people making under eighty thousand dollars. Think like
to me, like the ban on and forever chemicals is
that's that's hard to get like political power behind because
there's everybody supports it, but there's nobody pushing for it.

Speaker 4 (28:09):
Minnesota is a big people don't realize it is a
big business state as well. Huge Minneapolis is a huge
business hub. There are a lot of very corporate.

Speaker 5 (28:17):
Interests, corporations and warehouses, and increase in k through twelve
funding and then a bunch of pro union stuff as well, uh,
and there was a he vetoed a gig worker reform
bill and then in staid he would compromise, come back
with a compromised version because Uber and Lift and threaten
to leave if it passed. And he did come back

(28:38):
with a compromise version. So all of Normally, when a
Democrat wins by a couple dozen votes, they reach across
the aisle they say, you know, we can't, we can't
govern as if we won a huge mandate, we have
to you know, tread lightly here and basically be a
center right party. They said, no, we believe our agenda

(28:59):
is popular, believe that Republican agenda is unpopular.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
We're going to push ours through and we're going to
run on that.

Speaker 5 (29:05):
Yeah, And it's like they basically haven't done that anywhere
except maybe New York after all those DSA people took
over the legislature.

Speaker 4 (29:14):
But even so, it's a completely different thing, and this
is one of them.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
Doing in Minnesota is different than doing in New York.

Speaker 4 (29:20):
It's a conversation. Actually that's been very popular with the
Jdvance types on the right because there's this I go
back to this a lot. Ronald Reagan gave this famous
speech where he talked about painting with not with pale pastors,
but with bold colors. Bold colors, not pale pastals. And
it's sort of a famous saying, but people now associate
Reagan with squishy sort of neoliberalism, when in fact, the

(29:40):
Reagan Revolution was very much a revolution. It was a
war against the Centrists and the Republican Party that had
you know, it was people hated Ronald Reagan and the
Republican Party in DC. And his theory of the case
was always that if you are an ideological conservative, you

(30:00):
will be politically benefited by not trying to hide that
so you can talk about it ideologically. Whether it's more
honest and moral to go about that, but his theory
was that it's more politically beneficial to just be honest
about if you have bold beliefs. It's sort of the
Barry Goldwater and Reagan was a Goldwater supporter. When he

(30:21):
says extremism and defensive liberty is no vice, that is
the theory, and I think that is true in many cases. Obviously,
your elections, you know who your opponent is, all of
those things depend. But Tim Walls is a version of
that on the left, which is I believe these things,
and I'm going to make Minnesota a trans refuge, as

(30:44):
it was dubbed by the AP. Now, I think those
policies that he's pushed through as they relate to children
are awful and will not be well sold on the
national stage. They will be a problem from the national stage.
But I respect the hell out of him for being
honest about the fact that he is a cultural progressive
in a rural state that in northern Minnesota. Donald Trump

(31:05):
did a rally in Duloof. I mean, that is crazy
for Republicans to do rallies and draw thousands of people
in a place like Duluth. It's just that it is
a changing state, and I think Tim Watz is putting
that theory to the test and Democrats for people like you, Ryan,
who probably come down on that same theory of the
case that I believe in and that I would hope
that Republicans would follow. On the left, it's sort of

(31:28):
like a validation. It's saying like, look, this guy is
doing the damn thing right, we can do it too,
Like you don't have to pretend that you are just
like mister Joe Biden, who just gets along straightened. Joe
gets along with everybody and you know, doesn't have any
controversial ideas. You can say that you believe something that's unpopular.

Speaker 3 (31:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (31:47):
And I think the same way that Republicans had a
hard time painting Joe Biden as a far lefty.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
I think they're going to struggle with Tim Walls and
it's identitary.

Speaker 5 (31:59):
It's like sanitarianism, and it's but it's working in democrats
favor because you're like, oh, this like old white guy,
can't be a bad can be a flaming radical communist.
Just like the effort to paint Joe Biden as that,
And I know it like really frustrated Republicans that he
could be basically lined up with Bernie Sanders on a

(32:23):
lot of his domestic agenda while that he was getting
through and it just it just wasn't landing on him
because he's Scranton Joe whatever. And I think we'll see
because Joe Biden had been in the public eye for
fifty years and maybe that matters in a significant way
more so than just his identity.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
It's like a normal looking white guy.

Speaker 5 (32:47):
But we're going to find out because they went and
found this normal looking white guy and Republicans are already
saying he's the most radical nut job ever. We'll talk
about this in the next block, most radical nut job
ever to walk the face of the earth. Like, we'll
see if that works or not.

Speaker 4 (33:02):
And if people like you, so, if you're just a
generally likable person, that's the same thing with Reagan. Reagan
did have ideas that were unpopular and out of step
with a lot of yeah, smiling, right, no, but that's
exactly right. And so with Tim Walls, you can call
him radical. And I think on certain cultural issues he
is radical, and he would I mean people on the
left would say, like, these are radical populist economic policies.

(33:23):
You know, he probably wouldn't embrace that label. But just
last week he was saying one persons socialism is another
person's neighborliness. Like he hasn't sprinted in the opposite direction
from any of this. Now, the electoral implications are fascinating, though,
because all this depends on the coalition that you can
put together. And Sager made a really good point about
this on Twitter X yesterday book on Twitter. Yeah, I

(33:45):
refuse to think of it as as X. But anyway,
Sager said, his job is not to activate blue collar voters.
In reference to Waltz, he said, it's to activate affluent
white suburban liberals who like feeling he could appeal to
blue collar voters, and Sager then clarified he didn't mean
that in a bad way.

Speaker 3 (34:01):
He meant that.

Speaker 4 (34:01):
It was like, this is a successful pick. Who is
They have said this is the goal, and it's not
a dumb goal, and he's someone who can accomplish it.
But let's watch the Steve Karnaki clip explaining how Walls
did in different parts of Minnesota, because Minnesota is one
of those states is very much coming apart right now,
to borrow the famous phrase, between Minneapolis and some of

(34:24):
those rural, especially northern parts. So here's Karnaki on how
Walls is performed in different parts of the state.

Speaker 14 (34:31):
Now here's the key, because this county Democrats used to
be much more competitive in Look at this. In twenty twelve,
Barack Obama won forty three percent of the vote in
this county. It was only a little bit more than
ten points that he lost to Romney.

Speaker 6 (34:44):
By here.

Speaker 14 (34:45):
The floor fell out for Democrats here when Trump came
along in that Clinton race in twenty sixteen and they
haven't recovered it since. In that Walls performance here, it's
a little less than Biden's number, it's more than Clinton's,
and it's a far cry from what Obama was doing.
And again I'm showing you one. This is a stand
in for dozens of counties in Minnesota where you saw

(35:06):
the same thing with large rural populations, blue collar white populations,
where Obama and some of them he was winning. Others
he was holding his own just a dozen years ago.
This is where Democrats have lost grounds, and Walls in
twenty twenty two he didn't gain any grounds that the
Democrats had lost.

Speaker 3 (35:23):
He didn't do that here, he didn't do that in
no other counties.

Speaker 6 (35:25):
Walls really owes his.

Speaker 14 (35:27):
Victory, that big margin, that margin he got eight points
their statewide. He owes it to the Twin Cities area here,
the area where Democrats in Minnesota and all these other
states are already doing well. You know, look at his
electoral history Tim Walls is in twenty twenty two, and
the idea that he's got this automatic appeal with these
small town areas in those three key battleground states, you

(35:49):
don't see it in what he actually did on the
ballot in twenty twenty two.

Speaker 4 (35:52):
So all that is to say, belt white pundits should
be very very careful to assume that Walls being the
governor of Minnesota means that he is reflexibly or categorically
popular and easily sold and packaged throughout the rural Midwest,
because his own electoral victory was heavily dependent on the

(36:14):
most urban part of his state, which is Minneapolis, which
is also.

Speaker 3 (36:19):
A booming metropolis.

Speaker 4 (36:21):
So that is a very very important, I think, piece
of nuance in the big Tim Wall story.

Speaker 5 (36:26):
The only amendment I would have to that is that
if Democrats can maintain Biden's share of the rural white
vote basically white working class vote has brought more broadly,
then they will win. And so that's the only that's
the only caution on that on those stats is that Biden,

(36:47):
you know, did better than Hillary Clinton, and that and
that with Walls, you know, sticking close to Biden.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
That's rather than that. You could look at that two ways.

Speaker 5 (36:57):
One it would be like, oh, wow, he didn't outrun
the national tickets, so therefore he doesn't actually appeal that well.
But you could also say, well, Joe Biden actually outran
the kind of normal Democrat that would have how a
normal Democrat would have performed.

Speaker 3 (37:14):
Biden did better.

Speaker 5 (37:16):
Just because of his whole stick and also stuck with
Biden in that direction. But nobody should be fooled and
think that because he's got there's like a Harris Walls
camo at, that they're going to win Royal America, or
that they're going to even do that much better than
an average Democrat because it's still Harris and Walls. But

(37:40):
but I don't know, Yeah, it's a do no harm thing.
He's not he's not hated in rural America in the
way that kind of Hillary Clinton was so.

Speaker 4 (37:51):
And that Kamala Harris may come to be by the way.

Speaker 5 (37:53):
Yeah, oh well yeah, if she wins, it's going to
be an interesting four years, that's for sure.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
Will stick around for that.

Speaker 7 (38:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (38:02):
I was in like rural Pennsylvania a couple of years ago,
and the amount of like F Joe Biden's signs were
surprising even to me, just like on total dirt back
roads with bolt holes in them.

Speaker 3 (38:15):
Just f Joe by Oh yeah, what's wild.

Speaker 4 (38:18):
Yeah, not a lot of love for Democrats in a lot.

Speaker 3 (38:21):
Of those places. My uncle in Cookstown, Pennsylvania.

Speaker 5 (38:25):
We kept arguing with this guy who had a sign
right at the front of town that said f Joe Biden.
He's like, this makes us what you think whatever you
want about Joe Biden. Can you have a like I
don't like Joe Biden, I like I like Trump, rude
Joe Biden, like anything like this makes us look so trashy,
Like do you have any pride in this town?

Speaker 3 (38:46):
Come on? No answer is no.

Speaker 4 (38:49):
Yeah, the answer the answer was actually probably hell no.
Let's move on to Republican reactions to the Walls pick,
because there's a lot of interesting stuff to talk about
in terms of how Republicans sort of decided to navigate.

Speaker 3 (39:04):
You have this this virural.

Speaker 4 (39:07):
Hunter, you have the Shapiro being passed up, and now
there's reporting suggesting that Team Trump was intentionally coordinating to
take down Shapiro as the pick governor, right, and they
were sort of celebrating that the pick wasn't Shapiro and
was instead Walls because they see Wallas a sort of
weak and easy to attack and easier now to sort

(39:30):
of staple his resume to Kamala Harris. So this is
from Fox News right away yesterday after the pick was announced.

Speaker 15 (39:38):
Well, facts still matter, so let's look back at his record.
Walts's first executive order as governor was to create a Diversity,
Equity and Inclusion Council. He also supported open borders.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
He talks about this wall. I always say, let me
know how hig it is.

Speaker 9 (39:55):
If it's twenty five feet, then I'll invest in the
thirty foot ladder factory.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
And he pushed social don't ever shy away from mark
progressive values.

Speaker 9 (40:03):
One person's socialism is another person's neighborliness.

Speaker 3 (40:06):
Just do the day on work.

Speaker 15 (40:08):
Oh wait, and there's more. He signed an executive order
protecting gender affirming care or surgeries for miners in his state.
And in twenty twenty, he was the governor of Minnesota
during the George Floyd riots that burned part of Minneapolis
to the ground. It was so bad that Waltz himself
called out his own response.

Speaker 9 (40:30):
I got a call from a friend and a dedicated
public servant, Senator torres Rey called in her district and
it was on fire, and there weren't any police there.
There weren't any firefighters, there was no social control, and
her constituents were locked in their house wondering what.

Speaker 3 (40:47):
They were going to do.

Speaker 9 (40:49):
That is an abject failure that cannot happen if the
issue was is that the state should have moved faster.

Speaker 6 (40:54):
Yeah, that is on me. All right.

Speaker 5 (40:56):
So they're at the throwing everything against the wall fase,
what do you think would stick there?

Speaker 4 (41:01):
Well, I mean go to a bar in like outside
du Luth and say you want to invest in a
ladder factory to help people get over a border wall.
See how that goes? Tim Walls.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
I mean there's a.

Speaker 5 (41:11):
Serious I think he's telling a joke that the wall
is a joke because people can easily find ways around it,
and you could you could talk, You could say, hey, look,
the United Kingdom is having a massive immigration problem. They
have a giant ocean around their country.

Speaker 3 (41:29):
Oh can't figure it out? I don't, Yeah, vote the wall.
They have a huge moat and a channel.

Speaker 4 (41:35):
We can continue going on his immigration policies. Defending them
in that proverble bar or that hypothetical bar outside the
Luth would be hard. Whether it's driver's licenses, healthcare assistants,
that's a really hard argument to make now. So to
make that point, I think there is those lines of attack.
I don't think vice presidents matter that much. I could

(41:58):
see on the margins. Same way. On the margins, I
could see you know, stapling jd Vance's you know, all
his his public comments and stuff to Trump could be
painful for them in the suburbs, especially with like affluent
women who look at them and only creeped out by
jd Vance saying different things. I could also see on
the margins people being concerned that Waltz has said things

(42:23):
like one person's socialism is another person's neighborliness, which.

Speaker 3 (42:26):
See that was on the White Dudes. It was on
the White.

Speaker 4 (42:28):
Dudes for Harris called, which by the way, is not
like that's a conversation that we could all have here.
But when your governor freaks people out, and so I
commend him for being honest about it.

Speaker 5 (42:40):
Is politically a way of saying it one personal another
person's neighborliness.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
I think it is. But we're all in this together.

Speaker 5 (42:47):
We're all in this for our neighbors, unless their neighbors
are as long as our neighbors aren't bothering us, will
leave them alone.

Speaker 3 (42:53):
One hundred you know as well they need help, will
help them out.

Speaker 5 (42:56):
If they're not bothering us, they're not going to criticize
them agree completely.

Speaker 4 (43:00):
The label pulls so poorly that Republicans just a couple
of years ago during the dun primary, we're salivating over
the idea of a Bernie Sanders candidacy because they were
just pulling the word socialism in the suburbs.

Speaker 3 (43:12):
And if that's why he's rebranding it to neighborliness.

Speaker 4 (43:15):
Right, but he said it in a way that makes
it they can run that as an ad. I'm just saying, like,
I don't think.

Speaker 5 (43:19):
It's as an ad.

Speaker 4 (43:21):
I don't think it's a.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
Please, it's a please. Run that as an ad.

Speaker 4 (43:26):
It's I think it's Politically it would be I think
it would be wrong to say politically that does not
add some vulnerabilities to the ticket. And now I don't
think those are huge vulnerabilities. I do think they are vulnerabilities.
I also think that his trans policies, in particular, because
they were so specifically related to children, will be a

(43:46):
problem on the campaign trail because the mood in the
country has shifted on those issues significantly. So if Kamala
Harris is asked to defend that over and over again,
that will be tough for her.

Speaker 5 (43:57):
It's also at every VP can it was going to
have some problems when Mark Kelly, his big problem was
he was lousy on labor.

Speaker 3 (44:06):
And you know, at the.

Speaker 5 (44:09):
Intercept back when, back when he used to be at
the Intercept, we're just trying to help Democrats out and
we hammered Mark Kelly multiple times for refusing to sponsor
the pro Act of Major Labor Reform.

Speaker 3 (44:21):
Uh and he didn't take our advice, didn't do it.

Speaker 5 (44:24):
And sorry, buddy, next time, listen to us, and maybe
you'd be VP right now. Instead, you had Sean Fain
out there saying that, you know, the one he really liked,
The two he really liked actually were Basher and Walls
and the U a W the most kind of resurgent
labor union in the country right now.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
I think that really helped him and hurt Mark Kelly.

Speaker 6 (44:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (44:47):
Now on the on the on the point about the
trans politics hurting Walls, I this is where the weird
thing comes in because e and when so when you
pull that question, then in general Americans are against like

(45:07):
the surgeries for minors in general like it, but it's
very complicated. If you call it gender affirming, it's But overall,
I think people don't like that Republicans are making them
think about it, and Republicans are the ones they're tagged
with the weirdness for.

Speaker 4 (45:27):
Bringing it up.

Speaker 5 (45:28):
Like there was a tweet that I saw circulating yesterday
where it's a liberal is saying like good luck, you know,
painting this guy is a comedy and showing him like
hunting with his like hunting dog.

Speaker 3 (45:40):
And I think with Stephen.

Speaker 5 (45:41):
Miller, Yeah, Steven Miller says he puts tampons in the
boys room in high school, and it's like, okay, you're
why are you.

Speaker 4 (45:54):
A grown man talking about tampon's.

Speaker 5 (45:56):
Stephen Miller is the one making me think about this,
Like come on, I don't.

Speaker 4 (46:00):
Know, I see both sides of that one, because I
do think it's like if you guys are selling this
dude in a cameo hat, who's who's hunting? You know,
just like a lot of my family as just your
your average Minnesota And he did sign the bill that
you know, mandated tampons in men's rooms.

Speaker 3 (46:17):
But my thinking on but you're saying that.

Speaker 4 (46:21):
When Republicans talk about children's tampons and also think about it,
and you're like, shut up.

Speaker 5 (46:26):
Right exactly and also because like when I think about
it's like, Okay, should tampons be in the boys room
in middle school or high school? It's like, if they are,
it's probably because some student like found that helpful to them,
and I don't care, like put them, put them wherever.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
And also like the pro tip bring.

Speaker 5 (46:46):
Your own paths or tampons to school, like don't don't
count on the school to have them in the bathroom.

Speaker 3 (46:51):
They're like when you need them, they're not going to
be there.

Speaker 4 (46:53):
So why did right Field the need to dispense this advice?

Speaker 5 (46:56):
Because if somebody's watching this program and they're like, oh,
I can just go to the bathroom either one, it
is why people.

Speaker 4 (47:04):
Watch the show though. For the health advice from.

Speaker 3 (47:07):
Ryan Grimm, yes exactly. This is what mean for people.

Speaker 5 (47:09):
Don't you agree you wouldn't count on like school having
pats or tampons.

Speaker 4 (47:14):
There are a lot of things I would just generally
not come on schools for. That is one of them.
So the Trump campaign's reaction was, I guess sort of
as predicted. Here's what they said yesterday. Frank Lentz made
a funny point, and I'm loath to say that, but
here's Franklinz on AX. Interesting. This is B two. Interesting
that Trump says Tim Walls will be the worst VP

(47:35):
in history because it means that Kamala Harris is not.
That's a Trump campaign email. Obviously, he'll Unleasha get through
the spam filter. I don't know that it does. I
guess it got through frank Lenz's. But this is an
actual quote from it and all caps highlighted. He'll unleash
hell on Earth and open our borders to the worst criminals.

Speaker 3 (47:56):
That's true. That's a good point.

Speaker 4 (48:00):
Maybe keep our borders open to the worst criminals. Imaginable
green news scam. Trillions of dollars on fire, millions of
dirty cash to buy the White House?

Speaker 3 (48:09):
That one I don't fully understand. The real killer.

Speaker 4 (48:12):
He's already pulled in quote millions in dirty cash to
buy the White House. You're right, it does look like spam.

Speaker 5 (48:17):
Now Trump, wouldn't he support lighting the trillions of dollars
on fire because that will reduce the money supply. It's
a good point, and they think there's too much money
supply in the economy. Have you concerned that would be
quantitative tightening?

Speaker 4 (48:29):
You should respond to him on true social This is
what you should be on true Social.

Speaker 5 (48:33):
No, if I can find his email in my inbox,
I'll just reply to whoever whatever that inbox is.

Speaker 3 (48:38):
This is what he posted on true Social.

Speaker 4 (48:40):
Gavin Newsom then pulled it, posted it to Twitter and said,
oh he's scared.

Speaker 12 (48:44):
What are the.

Speaker 4 (48:44):
Chances that crooked Joe Biden the worst president in the
history of the Yes, Who's US whose presidency was unconstitutionally
stolen from him by Cambabla? Barack Hussein Obama, Crazy, Nancy Blowzis, Shifty,
Adam ship cry and Chuck Schumer and others on the
lunatic lock crashes the Democrat National Convention and tries to
take back the nomination, beginning with challenging me to another debate.
He feels that he made a historically tragic mistake by

(49:06):
hanging over the US presidency, a coup to the people
in the world he most hates, and he wants it back. Now.
The Kamabla thing has started to get some traction to.

Speaker 5 (49:15):
It's not great if you can't tell if it's a
typo or an attempt at a nickname.

Speaker 3 (49:19):
Yeah, I agree with Is it a real attempt? I
think so. I think so because and is he.

Speaker 5 (49:24):
Basically calling there for a January sixth to restore Joe
Biden to the nomination.

Speaker 4 (49:29):
Well, we know that there's a January sixth. There's a
soft coup, there's a hard coup. There's a soft J six,
there's a hard J six. Who knows what degree of
J six.

Speaker 5 (49:38):
One thing Trump and Biden have in common, from Trump's perspectives,
that their vice presidents both pulled coups on him, right, and.

Speaker 4 (49:46):
As Trump would be foolish not to remind us of this,
but Tim Wallas also was on Cameronston I think think
could hurt him shortly before Biden stepped down, right after
the debate, saying that Biden was fit to lead. He's
outside the White House saying that into a microphone to
reporters that Biden was fit to lead and fit to
be president for another four years. Basically so that can
earn him as well.

Speaker 16 (50:06):
Now.

Speaker 4 (50:07):
Jd Vance has been hitting the trail hard. Dude has
been everywhere. As you know, the idea was that Donald
Trump was regretting the pick of jd Vance that he
wanted to, you know, sort of turn down the volume
on Vance. This is crisscrossing the country, right, now Here's
what he had to say day about Walls.

Speaker 12 (50:25):
The reason I didn't say a whole lot about Tim Waltz.

Speaker 17 (50:27):
Is because the Democrats have showed a willingness to pull
a little switcheroo on us. So I don't even know
if we're actually going to get Tim Waltz out of
this campaign. And I think that a lot of us
are asking ourselves, well, it's not going to be official
until the Democrats actually nominate him, I guess at their
convention next week.

Speaker 6 (50:42):
So that's the first reason.

Speaker 17 (50:43):
The second reason is, look, Tim Waltz's record is a joke.
He's been one of the most far left radicals in
the entire United States government at any level. But I
think that what Tim Waltz's selection says is that Kamala
Harris has been the nee to the far left of party,
which is what she always does. The only thing I'll
say about Josh Shapiro is I genuinely there's some fans

(51:07):
out here. I genuinely feel bad that for days, maybe
even weeks, the guy actually had to run away from
his Jewish heritage because of what the Democrats are saying
about him. I think that's scandalous and disgraceful. Whatever you
believe or just whatever you whatever disagreements on policy you

(51:28):
have about somebody. The fact that that race, the vice
presidential race on the Democratic side, became so focused on
his ethnicity, I think is absolutely disgraceful.

Speaker 15 (51:37):
Do you think you have any similarities you can talk
about a common ground that you.

Speaker 3 (51:41):
Share with laws?

Speaker 17 (51:42):
Well, look, I mean, yeah, we're we're white guys from
the Midwest. I guess there are similarities there.

Speaker 4 (51:47):
I yes, yeah, What did you make of that?

Speaker 3 (51:53):
Why do you say chaos behind him?

Speaker 6 (51:55):
Like?

Speaker 3 (51:55):
That was? That was my first sign behind him?

Speaker 5 (51:58):
The sign behind him in Yeah, like you got to
think more about the signs you're gonna put behind somebody.

Speaker 3 (52:06):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (52:07):
It combined with that Trump tweet feels like real sour
grapes from from Republicans about the fact that they're not
getting to run against Joe Biden anymore. H And I
get it, like I would much rather be running against
Joe Biden. Like they were about to win Minnesota and
New Mexico and Virginia.

Speaker 3 (52:28):
Yeah, Minnesota, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 5 (52:29):
Yeah, they were on their way to an absolutely historic landslide,
a landslide so historic. Trump was like I'm gonna go
with Don Junior's pick and Jadie Vance my vice president,
and then all of a sudden And also I think
that they're extremely frustrated by the fact that Harris has
been running for president now for two weeks. It's not
had a not done an interview, not at a press conference,

(52:53):
and basically not rolled out any policies except to flip
flop on Medicare for all. Basically everything she ran on,
like anything that was progressive that she ran on in
twenty nineteen. And I will say twenty nineteen because not
twenty twenty, because she did not make it into twenty twenty.
She dropped out before then. She has walked away from

(53:13):
all of those things. She's found time to retreat from
all those policies. But she does not put any affirmative
policies out except she said she's going to make the
Affordable Care Act better, which good. I'd like to see
the Affordable Charact made better.

Speaker 4 (53:27):
I can't really mean anything with her because she raised Herump.

Speaker 5 (53:30):
Says that to take care for all the right but yeah,
Trump also says he's going to make the Affordable Care
Act better.

Speaker 3 (53:36):
He says that everyone will have coverage good.

Speaker 5 (53:38):
Great, if we can have a presidential campaign with both
candidates competing for who's going to make the Affordable Care
Act better, who's going to expand coverage more?

Speaker 3 (53:47):
Better? Great?

Speaker 5 (53:48):
So I think Republicans, tell me, if I'm right, are
just extremely frustrated.

Speaker 12 (53:53):
Now.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
They're used to, like.

Speaker 5 (53:54):
The mainstream media kind of taking this ride, taking them
for this ride, and then and then this. Now, it's
interesting that the Trump campaign was so nervous about Shapiro,
like that they felt like and.

Speaker 3 (54:09):
There was some pole.

Speaker 5 (54:10):
There was some analysis I saw that said that he
would add about a point four percent margin to the
Harris ticket in Pennsylvania, which sounds like not much, but
in a very tight race, is actually a huge amount
if you believe that it's statistically significant like that the
race very likely will be decided maybe by that the town.

Speaker 4 (54:32):
Yeah, because I mean, if you look at the tallies
from twenty sixteen to twenty twenty in some of those states, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania,
and Michigan, they're so I was looking.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
Back at them the other day.

Speaker 4 (54:40):
There's razor thin margins in those days.

Speaker 5 (54:42):
So the Trump campaign seems happy that it wasn't Shapiro.

Speaker 3 (54:45):
But I wonder if they're a little bit.

Speaker 5 (54:48):
I think they expected worse Democrats than they're getting right now.

Speaker 4 (54:52):
Well, I think that's true, and I think they also underestimated,
In fact, I know they underestimated the degree to which
Kamala Harris would be accepted with open arms by this
sort of political establishment, from the media to the elite Democrats.

Speaker 3 (55:10):
The left didn't put up much of a peep, right.

Speaker 4 (55:13):
And you know, so I sent this to you guys yesterday.
It was like Cynthia Nixon sipping like coconut water yesterday,
Like that just has been that the all of the
coup stuff has gone away. And that's what the Trump
campaign really wanted to hammer home is like this was
a soft coup. They have just totally thrown democracy out
the window of the running on.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
That stuff is not sticking and it's nothing.

Speaker 5 (55:34):
It's like Trump saying this is a soft coup against
a guy that I believe should resign.

Speaker 4 (55:38):
So it's like, I feel like that's not it's not sticking,
partially because the media just fully moved on. It's not
entirely untrue that basically what we saw happen, but an
immediate decision after the debate, like everyone was It wasn't immediate.
It took a couple of weeks, but it was immediately
things started to fall into place, and this started to
you know, it didn't happen for the primary for a reason,

(56:00):
and then suddenly happened after the debate.

Speaker 3 (56:01):
So I get that.

Speaker 4 (56:03):
But I think people are frustrated by how big of
a boost Kamala Harris has gotten from pop culture and media.
I don't think they expected it. They should have expected it,
I don't think they did. That said, the race is
still basically tied. She is doing well in some new polls.
But the Shapiro thing in particular, Let's roll this CoIP
of Ben Shapiro, no relation, no relation, talking about how

(56:27):
he ended up getting passed up and what he thinks
that means.

Speaker 3 (56:30):
Roll B five.

Speaker 7 (56:31):
She has opened herself up wide to every attack on
her radicalism by picking Tim Walls. See, there was another
pick that was available, and everyone sort of expected that
person to be picked. That person, of course, was the
Pennsylvania governor, Josh Shapiro. Pennsylvania has eighteen electoral votes. Josh
Shapiro has a sixty one percent approval rating in Pennsylvania.
Very easy pick, super super simple pick. For Kamala Harris,

(56:54):
and we know why she didn't pick Josh Shapiro, and
the reason is because he's a Jew. Also adopted under
tim Way walls as governorship background checks for private gun transfer,
which of course means effectively a gun registry. DFL lawmakers
also banned supposed conversion therapy for LGBTQ people, which is
much more controversial than it sounds like. When they're talking

(57:14):
about conversion therapy, they're no longer talking about the horrible
old practice of taking teenagers who are gay and electroding
them or something. They're talking about, you know, actual therapy
for people struggling with their sexual identity. For example, he
legalized recreational marijuana. He required a carbon free electric grid
by twenty forty. Again, that is such insanity. That is
not going to happen. That is not going to happen

(57:35):
because the alternative sources of electricity like wind and solar
are simply not up to the task of supplying electricity
to an entire state. On the base in the middle
of some of the coolest areas of the United States,
adopted a new reading curriculum based on phonics and passed
a massive two point five eight billion dollar capital construction package,

(57:56):
So that is tax sikes, that is spending, that is
him Walls in a nutshell.

Speaker 4 (58:01):
So again I don't think he's wrong that those bring
vulnerabilities to the table and vulnerabilities that Josh Shapiro might
not have had. But I don't agree with this promise
that Walls does not also bring advantages to the ticket
that Shapiro wouldn't bring to the ticket, and that Shapiro
is just this sort of Gavin Newsom like playing I

(58:25):
could play a politician on TV.

Speaker 5 (58:27):
Kamala is very much a seems like a politician. So
two of those, Yeah, and against Trump, the anti politician
is a tough race.

Speaker 3 (58:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (58:37):
And Shapiro very much acknowledged Walls as a buncularness. He
called it his affability, like his likability, Like I think
it's the one thing that everybody is like, Okay, yeah,
it's likable guy.

Speaker 3 (58:52):
He seems cool.

Speaker 4 (58:53):
Yeah, And that's going to be because one of the
reasons Kamala Harris reportedly was interested in Walls is that
when he went on news Chris and I talked about
this last week.

Speaker 3 (59:02):
And made that weird remark about JD.

Speaker 4 (59:05):
Vancid.

Speaker 3 (59:05):
These people are weird.

Speaker 4 (59:07):
That was impressive because coming from him, it seemed to
stick that he had this. Now Republicans may, because of
that sort of cultural progressivism, may actually have an ability.
We'll see how well it sticks to paint him as weird. Again,
we will see how well that politically sticks. But that
coming from him is different than that coming from Joshapiro.

(59:29):
I don't know that jos Shapiro could even pull that
off because he just seems less regular. And when it
sounds like a regular guy saying it, it's easier to
make it stick.

Speaker 6 (59:37):
Right.

Speaker 5 (59:38):
And the more that Stephen Miller goes on Fox News
like ranting about tampon's tim walls and tampons and getting
offended at the weird things, like you're not beating those charges, man,
I don't think this is the guy you want to
drag out to tell us that you're not weird.

Speaker 4 (59:54):
And again, yeah, I agree that all those things are vulnerabilities,
but to what degree their vulnerabilities in this larger context
of how much much a vice president will even matter?
To your point, there are marginal reasons that these are
important picks in places like Pennsylvania. So I don't disagree
with that, either. But how much this conversation will be
about Tim Walls and his various policies going forward is

(01:00:14):
very much an open question. It depends on what Republicans
decide to run on. Certainly this gives them something to
work with, but voters are thinking about the people at
the top of the ticket for the most part, So
I don't know that this is going to be a
huge part, even like when people are making up their
minds about who to vote for in a place like Pennsylvania,
if your governor's on the ticket, that's different. Republicans probably

(01:00:34):
were not going to win Minnesota even with Joe Biden
at the top of the ticket.

Speaker 5 (01:00:38):
And so I'm next We're going to have two people
debating this very question, Jenk yuger tyt host and Will Chamberlain.
What do you describe my conservative attorney?

Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:00:50):
Conservative, I would say, a sort of new right conservative
attorney and very much a pro Trump voice on the right.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:01:00):
Jenk was taking a kind of counterintuitive contrarian Shapiro not
necessarily pro Shapiro but anti anti Shapiro line.

Speaker 3 (01:01:09):
But is over the moon about the Tim Walls pick.

Speaker 5 (01:01:15):
Joining us now to discuss more on the Tim Walls
VP selection. We've got Will Chamberlain, kind of a new
rite conservative activist writer attained an attorney as well. And
we've got Jenk Yuger, host of tyt's main show, Jenk

(01:01:35):
Will thank.

Speaker 3 (01:01:36):
You so much for joining us. Thanks for having me
and Jenks.

Speaker 5 (01:01:42):
Let's start with you, because talk to talk to us
about how you were feeling during the kind of Veepsteaks competition,
which interestingly was kind of what we had been proposing
democrats do for their actual nomination, is to have this
kind of an open process where it wasn't necessary going
to lead to actual people voting, but by the general

(01:02:04):
vibes of the country, somebody would emerge as an obvious favorite.

Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
And that that that seemed to happen here.

Speaker 5 (01:02:11):
Like it it was a participatory democratic process, even if
nobody got to go and actually cast votes.

Speaker 3 (01:02:19):
So how did you.

Speaker 5 (01:02:19):
Feel about the kind of VP selection before you know,
or or like you know, before the process kicked off,
and how did you feel about it by the end
of it?

Speaker 6 (01:02:30):
Yeah, I felt many different things.

Speaker 12 (01:02:32):
First of all, I felt, told you, second of all,
apprehension and then at the end elation so told you
as in, look at all these amazing Democratic candidates. This
is why we thought that Biden should step aside, because
the idea that Biden was the best that the Democrats
had to offer was so preposterous at this late stage

(01:02:53):
in his life.

Speaker 6 (01:02:54):
I'm like, how about the.

Speaker 12 (01:02:55):
Governor of Pennsylvania or Michigan, or Kentucky or apparently Minnesota.

Speaker 6 (01:03:01):
And it turned out when we looked into them, they
were all fantastic.

Speaker 12 (01:03:05):
I told you, of course, there's a lot of great
Democrats out there.

Speaker 6 (01:03:09):
Now.

Speaker 12 (01:03:10):
The apprehension part was I was like, oh no, here
we go again with the Democrats, with all these great
candidates out there. If they picked like a Mark Kelly
snoozefest because they think they already have this thing one,
or even worse, the corporate lego man Pete Botagic, all
this will have been for naught.

Speaker 6 (01:03:26):
And then I would have put them back as underdogs.
But they didn't.

Speaker 12 (01:03:30):
They didn't, and at the NFL elation is I can't
believe they made the best pick. I can't believe, and
I can't believe that the last two were the best
two Josh Shapiro and Tim Walls. So that couldn't have
gotten any better.

Speaker 5 (01:03:44):
Well, let's start electorally, So just cynically, like setting aside
what you think about the policies that this ticket is
going to put forward electorally from your perspective on the right,
how do you think this pick plays.

Speaker 4 (01:03:59):
Which, by the way, want to add is an important
addition to what Jankis said, is that is Tim Walls
a good candidate? To Ryan's point, is he a good
candidate for Democrats? Or do his vulnerabilities as you see
them outweigh the potential advantages that he brings to the ticket.

Speaker 16 (01:04:17):
I think among the Fanel finalists, he's the pick we're
happiest to see a Republicans. We were worried about Jos Shapiro.
We think that Jos Shapiro has massive favorability ratings and
what's most likely to be the tipping point state if
you saw him speak yesterday at that rally, he's a
hell of an order, like just real talk.

Speaker 6 (01:04:34):
The guy can speak that.

Speaker 16 (01:04:36):
He made a pretty good joke too when people said
he was compared to Barack Obama. He's like, well, Obama
is a pretty good order, so I'm not upset about
that comparison. So we were worried about Shapiro. Tim Waltz
makes this a very simple election. It's make America great
again versus make America burn again. They are going to
have the Minneapolis riots hanging over their head the next
three months. It's going to be an immigration and crime election.

(01:04:58):
They're going to have to explain why Tim Walls decided
to let riders one while while he twiddled his thumbs,
and then why Camala Harris promoted a fund to bail
those riders out.

Speaker 3 (01:05:08):
Yeah, what do you think? Jenk All?

Speaker 12 (01:05:10):
Right, First of all, let's all be amused by the
idea of someone who definitely should not be running if
they didn't call a National Guard soon enough and they
just twiddled their thumbs while there.

Speaker 6 (01:05:21):
Was a riot happening like on January sixth. Awkward.

Speaker 12 (01:05:27):
Okay, so listen, it's hilarious that we have agreement here.
He thinks Tim Wants is the best candidate for them.
I think Tim WANs is the best candidate for us.
The brother passed all these wonderful laws that are intensely popular,
paid family leave you, free lunches for poor kids by

(01:05:48):
the way, free college for lower income families so they
can compete with the rich families, which Republicans are going
to hate, and they did hate. They devoted against it,
passed so many economically populist bills, and then just popular
popular bills like legalizing marijuana and and all of these

(01:06:10):
pull it over seventy percent. So if they're gonna run
on Tim Wall's record, they're going to run straight into
our iceberg.

Speaker 6 (01:06:16):
And I love it.

Speaker 12 (01:06:17):
Please make the case against the American people, how they
shouldn't have paid family leave, they shouldn't have child tax credits,
they shouldn't have abortion rights.

Speaker 6 (01:06:25):
Go for it, go for it. Make our day.

Speaker 12 (01:06:27):
By the way, don't get me wrong. I like Josh Shapiro.
I favored Josh Shapiro. But this whole thing that they
do after every pick is like, well, if you'd picked
the other guy, that we would have been scared of
that guy. But you pick this guy, we're thrilled. I'm
seeing this two thousand times over.

Speaker 4 (01:06:43):
So will I imagine what was going through your head?
And I don't want to put words in your mouth.
But as jenk was talking about, some of these popular
and sort of genuinely populist economic policies that the likes
of Sarabamari and others even on the New Right, have
looked at and said, there's some interesting stuff in here
economically that would that is popular with voters, whether or
and it's right or wrong, popular with voters at the
very least. What was probably coming through your mind was

(01:07:05):
some of the cultural policies that Waltz has passed, So
that would be on LGBT issues, immigration issues, the way
he's talked about both of those issues that create vulnerabilities
for him. So is that something that as Republicans are
looking at this, you think drags Waltz down, drags Kamala
Harris down from now until November.

Speaker 16 (01:07:22):
Well, yeah, I mean it's not twenty twelve.

Speaker 6 (01:07:25):
Mitt Romney's not at the top of the ticket with
Paul Ryan.

Speaker 16 (01:07:28):
We're not about to run on you know, cutting a
title and spending or pending the cost curve or whatever.
So this is a very different Republican party. You know,
the head of the teams who spoke at the Republican Convention,
We're not going to be running on child tax credits
are bad. The real problem with Waltz, I think. I mean,
first off, obviously immigration, Waltz has allowed for taxpayer money

(01:07:49):
to go to paying for illegal immigrants college. That's something
we're certainly going to run on. I mean, I'm generally
of the view that tax American taxpayers money should benefit
American citizens and not the object, not the opposite. He's
got some very big issues on the trans stuff. It's
not merely you know, like should do trans people exist?
This is stuff like, you know, he's going to make

(01:08:09):
it impossible for Red states to set laws that prohibit
transgender surgeries on children.

Speaker 6 (01:08:15):
And you know, I like, as.

Speaker 16 (01:08:16):
Much as jenk wants to say this stuff is popular,
this stuff is not popular. You know, Deacons of reactionary
conservatism like England and Norway and Sweden have banned all
these treatments. This is this is stuff that's not going
to go well with the broader public. And then there's
also the biggest issue, which I think with Waltz, which
really hasn't been covered. He's an appointment dodger. He was
in the National Guard. He was the leader of a unit,

(01:08:38):
and the moment that the Iraq War, that his unit
was about to deploy, he just said, sorry, guys, have
fun and just left the mall go off to rock
and three of them died.

Speaker 12 (01:08:48):
Okay, let me answer that. So the brother was in
the National Guard for twenty seven years. He got at
least three medals that I saw, and he enlisted. Is
the highest enlisted ranked member of the Armed service that
we serve in Congress, and.

Speaker 6 (01:09:05):
You're going to compare.

Speaker 12 (01:09:06):
Him to Commander bone Spurs, who ran from Vietnam and
they asked him, Hey, your daddy wrote you a note
about how you had bone spurs in your ankle. Which
ankle was it? He's like, I don't maybe both, maybe both.
Your guy's a total utter coward. He ran from Vietnam
and then later bragged that his Vietnam was dodging STDs.

Speaker 6 (01:09:30):
At the Orgies he was going to.

Speaker 12 (01:09:32):
So you want to compare him to a guy who
served for twenty seven years, have a a hoss.

Speaker 6 (01:09:37):
Yeah, I'll go right back at you on that.

Speaker 16 (01:09:39):
My guy's the guy who got shot in the face
and got up screaming fight, fight, fight. Your guy at
who's a forty seven year old man supervising teenagers, and
you know, young men who are about to go to
the war, leading them for years the moment they're about
to deploy, walks off the job, total loser. Anybody's a
coward in this race. It's Tim Walls you're nuts.

Speaker 12 (01:09:59):
So you're saying, actually defending the country is cowardly if
you do it for decades on end, and you wouldn't.
When did you defend the country one chance?

Speaker 6 (01:10:08):
He didn't do it. You don't get to talk over me. Sorry, okay,
fair enough.

Speaker 12 (01:10:11):
And then and then wins the Nebraska Citizens Soldier of
the Year. He wins every award there is. And then
you go, well, no, you didn't serve thirty years. You
didn't serve forty years. Your guys served zero years.

Speaker 4 (01:10:22):
Okay. So, jenk though, could you respond to what Will
said about immigration trans issues causing vulnerabilities for Waltz? I
mean it is true that as popular as some of
those economic policies might be, those are way more front
issues and Waltz, who's who really relied on Minneapolis to
win his groupernatorial election. As Steve Karnaki pointed on MSNBC yesterday,

(01:10:43):
those are tougher cells outside of Minneapolis on some of
those big cultural issues.

Speaker 6 (01:10:49):
Yeah, I understand that.

Speaker 12 (01:10:50):
So again, though, I want to make sure that everybody
understands that Donald Trump is a giant coward who ran
for Vietnam and wanted poor people and middle class people
to die on his behalf. But to be fair, his
daddy's doctor note was really sterling well paid for.

Speaker 6 (01:11:05):
Okay. So now in terms of those issues.

Speaker 12 (01:11:08):
Look, it depends on how you ask the questions on immigration, transwrites, etc.

Speaker 6 (01:11:13):
And so if you say, oh.

Speaker 12 (01:11:14):
My god, the police department and the fire department in
Minnesota are wrong. They shouldn't have driver's licenses, even though
it would make the cops lives much much easier and
identifying them and I can't believe that a nondocumented immigrant
would ever get anything. They should be dealianized, and we
should hate them, and we should pretend that they're evil. Okay,

(01:11:34):
you can go that route. You could run a hate
field campaign. And by the way, my resoname with some people.

Speaker 6 (01:11:39):
I get it. But we're going to come back and.

Speaker 12 (01:11:41):
Double down on how he helped the average American and
his economic bills are overwhelmingly popular. In fact, ninety percent
of the bills that he's passed are overwhelmingly popular. Here's
a guy who is a teacher of football, coach and
from the from the Midwest. I almost pulled a Trump said,
from the Middle West, that's the thing that we say. Okay,

(01:12:05):
so look compared to loser bankropt, a businessman and a
vulture capitalist. I've added oss, Okay, tell us about how
popular you guys are, and oh, we have the most
popular billionaires in Wall Street.

Speaker 6 (01:12:19):
Tacoon's on our side. Go for it, okay, But I
don't think those are going to play well at all.

Speaker 12 (01:12:24):
I think they're gonna get their asses handed to him.

Speaker 3 (01:12:28):
What's your response to that one, will Oh?

Speaker 16 (01:12:30):
I mean, I think like Tim Waltz is just goofy.
That's another thing about him. He's really really I mean,
think about Tim Waltz. Here's the other thing. The guy
made a sex joke in his like announcement as VP,
referencing this couch stuff. You know, it'd be one thing
if he was just doing that on some podcast. He's
doing it there on the speech where he's making himself known,

(01:12:51):
and then he shakes his wife's hand. I don't know
if if I shake my wife's hand, I got get slapped.
The guy's ridiculous. And then I think also on the
economic stuff, I mean, Minnesota is an economic basket case.
It's actually relative in other states. It's gotten far worse
than the past few years. People are fleeing the state
to Florida, he's not actually done a good job of

(01:13:11):
managing his state. And then the state's also become a
high crime state because he's so inept on crime, as
demonstrated in Minneapolis in twenty twenty.

Speaker 12 (01:13:19):
Okay, it's the fifth best state for business. So this
whole thing of extreme liberal is absurd. It's the third
happiest state. And then I love every point about Tim
Wallas as it's as if they're talking about Donald Trump
and don't realize it. That guy's really strange, says weird things.
Can you believe he said inappropriate things? Really, a guy

(01:13:39):
supporting Trump is going to tell us about how the
other guy said inappropriate things. A big joke about a couch,
that's what you're But you're not outraged that Trump was like, yeah,
I grab him by the jigitis. You don't think that's weird,
that's totally normal. And then oh my god, I can't
believe he shook his wife's hand. Well that's better than Trump.
Millennia won't even touch his him. So, I mean, everything

(01:14:01):
you say about Tim Wallas is like steroids comically true
of Donald Trump.

Speaker 16 (01:14:08):
I mean, context seems pretty obviously different. What you say
in private versus what you say in a rally. I mean,
ye are read Zoba.

Speaker 12 (01:14:15):
Yeah. I actually as a lot of people that sounds great. Yeah,
that in private's way better.

Speaker 4 (01:14:21):
Can we stick on the question of Walls's economic record, actually,
because Jane, can you flesh out that point about Uh,
this is something I've started to see coming from people
actually within Minnesota who have said, you know, Walts did
pass these economic populist policies, but what he did with
the money and the budget and all that you know
is conservatives in Minnesota unsurprisingly will hammer Walls for having

(01:14:42):
been bad on the economy. Your contention is that actually
it's a benefit for him that he has the over
the economy that he's overseen in Minneapolis or in Minnesota
is a benefit for him on the campaign trail.

Speaker 6 (01:14:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 12 (01:14:56):
So look, first I should also acknowledge that this sexual
assault that Donald Trump was convicted of was in public
he actually assaulted or in public?

Speaker 6 (01:15:04):
Yeah, he did in address, None of that, None of
what you said is true. He didn't was not addictive
of a sexual assault that.

Speaker 12 (01:15:09):
The jury said. He definitely did it, and it was
in public. It was a civil suit. It's not a conviction.

Speaker 6 (01:15:15):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 12 (01:15:15):
It was a civil suit where he jury said he
definitely did sexual assault in public.

Speaker 6 (01:15:20):
Okay.

Speaker 12 (01:15:21):
So to the economic issues, so look, he passes all
these wonderful laws that help America's Like look at paid
family leave. That's a Democrat saying, hey, mom should get
in that case, twenty weeks off after they have a
baby so they could bond with a baby.

Speaker 6 (01:15:36):
And Republicans going that would have hurt interests. Corporations want
you to go back to work the next day.

Speaker 12 (01:15:42):
And so they all voted no, and they said, well,
if you both have moms spend any time with their babies,
and you know how much Republicans hate babies, and if
you do that, my god, it's going to sink the economy.

Speaker 6 (01:15:53):
Except it didn't. It's the fifth best state for business.

Speaker 12 (01:15:56):
So not only did the average Minnesota get a lot
better situation, but you guys.

Speaker 6 (01:16:01):
Were all wrong. It didn't hurt business at all. So
it's always been a mirage.

Speaker 12 (01:16:05):
It's the Republican Party is built to serve the rich
and serve corporations, So they don't want you to have
one day with your baby at all. They don't want
you sickly, they don't want any day. Don't want child Exspreddit.
They don't want any of that stuff because it would
hurt their beloved corporations, they think in their infinite greed.

Speaker 6 (01:16:22):
But it turns out he doesn't even hurt them. It
still makes business perfectly happy.

Speaker 12 (01:16:27):
So he found a way to balance interest in a
way that helped everyone.

Speaker 6 (01:16:31):
You can't argue with them.

Speaker 5 (01:16:33):
And well, I feel like Republicans are going to have
two problems in going after Walls, And one is that,
like you said, Walls seems like a pretty boring white guy,
So painting him as a as a radical is going
to be difficult. And Minnesota is Minnesota, and so painting
it as Steven Miller tried, as like the next Mogadishu

(01:16:54):
is going to be difficult, and like portraying it as
some like you know, communist Mecca is also going to
be difficult because it's Minnesota. But maybe I'm wrong here,
like you like, what is what is your sense of
how you guys are going to be able to turn
Minnesota and Tim Walls into kind of scary figures.

Speaker 16 (01:17:14):
We're just going to keep publishing the images and videos
of Minneapolis. In June twenty twenty, over and over and
over again. That's what we're going to do. I feel like,
I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:17:22):
I mean, I think you're probably I appreciate that.

Speaker 5 (01:17:25):
I suspect you will. I think that people are over
that like that. It's that you're going to look like
you're complaining about something that people are kind of ready
to move past and are going to say, Look, the
protests were well meaning, they were targeting a genuine injustice.
They went overboard at times. We don't necessarily want to

(01:17:46):
be reminded of that. Why are you guys reminding us?

Speaker 3 (01:17:49):
Maybe you're maybe you see my point, Like, I don't
know if this is going to work.

Speaker 16 (01:17:53):
For it, but I think that the sort of people
who are swing voters in this election, I mean, you
look at generally, like what do swing voters care about?
What are the Republican's strongest issues with string voters? Immigration, crime, inflation?

Speaker 6 (01:18:05):
Right? Those three those are the ones, and crime is
a big one.

Speaker 16 (01:18:09):
Like the defund the police stuff that Kamala has said
in the past, abolishized stuff. That's all stuff that she's
extremely worried about. That's why she spent like a whole
week having her flax go out there and claim that
she wasn't the borders are so like they're worried about
this stuff. Tim Waltz makes it much worse for them.
This is where jos Shapiro would have been a really
much stronger candidate, more moderate, better on crime. But Tim

(01:18:32):
Waltz is just it fits into the narrative because one
of again, one of Kamala's weakest points is that she
promoted that bail fund in Minneapolis, and Tim Waltz is
the governor of Minnesota who twittled.

Speaker 4 (01:18:41):
His times and why Jink, is that not a huge
problem for Waltz in your opinion?

Speaker 6 (01:18:47):
Yeah, So a couple of things here.

Speaker 12 (01:18:49):
At number one, this is the same thing Democrats did
about January sixth. They beat it into the ground and
they showed the video after video after video until people
got bored of it. So I'm kind of known for
being honest about our side and the weaknesses in our side,
and I don't think that was great political strategy. And
right now Republicans are remaining that same mistake. I think
Ryan's exactly right. People get it.

Speaker 6 (01:19:10):
Hey, listen, George Floyd was one of the greatest injustices.

Speaker 12 (01:19:13):
I don't know, maybe Republicans changed their minds and they
think maybe he had a coming or something.

Speaker 6 (01:19:17):
I don't know.

Speaker 12 (01:19:17):
Maybe they're going to defend Chauvin like they defended Kyle
Rittenhouse and George Zimmerman. But in terms of the riots,
he did call out the National Guard. They're saying, oh,
he didn't do it fast enough. But again, if your
candidate is Donald Trump, and he refused to call out
the National Guard on January sixth, and he sat around
and enjoyed it while his own supporters chanted, hang Mike Pence,

(01:19:38):
Hang Mike Pence, and he said he didn't mind. I
don't think you get to make the case that, oh
my god, there'll be chaos if the other guys are elected.
So I just don't think that that's a winning issue
for them. I think it feels old and stale. But
they could run it, and when they do again, it'll
feel a little bit racial, and so I think that

(01:19:59):
they can't help them. They keep attacking on race, on
the fact that Kamala Harris is a woman, so you know,
on Tim Walls, I mean, they got nothing because of
what Ryan pointed out.

Speaker 6 (01:20:11):
It's Minnesota. He's a lovable old grandpa.

Speaker 12 (01:20:14):
He passed the laws that the people of Minnesota are
thrilled with and so they're gonna go to weird. But
that's what he said about you guys, and everybody thinks
that's true. So it just seems super weak. I don't
think they have any case at all. Look just real
quick on this. When Joe Biden was in the race,
I said he had a zero percent chance of winning.

Speaker 6 (01:20:35):
So it's not like I'm.

Speaker 12 (01:20:36):
Telling you, oh yeah, raw, raw, Democratic Party they're so
great now. I think they're the clear favorites because his
record of Minnesota is excellent. Kamala Harris has been terrific
on the campaign trail, and now Donald Trump looks like
the stale, old tired guy who's still raving like a
lunatic in the corner. I think they're in a world
of herb.

Speaker 4 (01:20:56):
So Ryan made a point earlier in the show that
about this exchange Stephen Miller had with someone about the
It was someone posting a picture of Tim Waltz with
his hunting gear on, like bird hunting, something like that,
and said, how are you going to paint this guy
as like a San Francisco liberal or coastal leader or something,
And Steven Miller replied, he put tampons in girls' bathrooms

(01:21:18):
or in boys bathrooms. I'm sorry, And when the exchange
went super viral, so Will Ryan was making the point
that it backfires on Republicans because then they look like
the middle aged men who are obsessing over tampon's or
like forcing you to think about tampons. What's your response
to that, because to me, I actually think that Steven
Miller point is pretty successful at undercutting the dumb argument

(01:21:41):
that this is just your average, you know, roural Minnesotan dad.

Speaker 3 (01:21:45):
But on the other hand, I do see Ryan's point.

Speaker 16 (01:21:47):
I think the politics of that issue in particular have
changed over the last eight years, and that the general
public is a lot less sympathetic to especially when it
comes to stuff about trans and kids. So I don't
think it helps Tim Waltz that he was like making
his state a refuge for you know, you know, puberty
blockers for children. I think that it's going to actually

(01:22:09):
look bad for him. But more broadly, I think it's
like generally it's just this hic lip stuff where you know,
it's like, oh, look, it's a liberal with a gun.
That's going to persuade conservatives that he's just a fine guy.
I mean, we've got so many obvious attacks. I mean,
obviously the deployment dodger one is the biggest one. The
guy's not going to have credibility among veterans. Every veteran's
going to look at him be like you would have

(01:22:29):
abandoned me when I.

Speaker 6 (01:22:30):
Was about to deploy. That's what They're going to look
at him and say, that's sick.

Speaker 3 (01:22:34):
Well, I mean it's just prue so smick.

Speaker 12 (01:22:38):
You guys do it every time to actual veterans. It's
an emooral line of attack. You did it to John
Carry after you took bullets for this country. Your guys
are all chicken hawks. They're all loser cowards like Donald
Trump who ran from Vietnam, Dick Cheney who never served,
Tom Delay who said, oh, black people took my spot.
Otherwise they would have gotten to Vietnam they never served.

(01:22:58):
They're always coward or is they always send other people
to die. They're always rich people going, hey, why don't
you poor middle class people die for the wars that
I start and j vance twenty seven years?

Speaker 6 (01:23:08):
Yea van Tim waltsteron, okay, what do you p twenty
seven years? Then I'll judge you. I'll Joe stayed twenty
eight year.

Speaker 3 (01:23:17):
Jack judging you, so jenk to knock on him.

Speaker 5 (01:23:19):
That you're going to hear from the right is that
it was May sixteenth, two thousand and five, just when
when when Walls stepped aside and as he as he retired,
So this was after twenty plus years in the National Guard,
but as he retired, his unit was about to deploy,
and according to people in the unit, he had told
those in the unit that he would deploy with them.

Speaker 6 (01:23:41):
To a wreck.

Speaker 3 (01:23:42):
So that that's gonna be the hit.

Speaker 5 (01:23:44):
You think, it doesn't land because because they go they
went after John Kerry s, they'll go after everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:23:49):
So they've lost.

Speaker 4 (01:23:50):
And Jane, let me add also that Chris Lasovita is
the head of the Trump campaigns wills right now. He
is the architect of the swift boat ad campaign.

Speaker 12 (01:23:58):
Yeah, of course, that's what he does is he does
this to every veteran who's served. Oh, you want to
serve America, We're going to find a way to smear you,
and we're going to pretend that you didn't get shot enough.

Speaker 6 (01:24:08):
We're going to pretend that you didn't serve long enough.

Speaker 12 (01:24:10):
Even though our guys never served, and you served over
two decades, but we're going to find a way to
use that against you. So hey, listen, if you're an
average American and you like politics and you care about
this country and you want to fix it, be careful
if you go into the armed services, the Republicans will
viciously smear you later.

Speaker 6 (01:24:29):
Oh he took a bathroom break once. I didn't like him.

Speaker 12 (01:24:31):
Oh yeah, he was something I didn't like in the
in training, in the army, or in the National Guard. Okay,
where was your guy? Oh no, he didn't have a
unit to deploy because his dad literally bribed a doctor
to write a doctor's note about a bone.

Speaker 6 (01:24:47):
Spur he didn't have. So will can you explain?

Speaker 12 (01:24:49):
I'm being serious because you're smearing a guy who served
for decades. So I want you to answer to me
why Donald Trump isn't a gigantic coward from running from Vietnam.
Don't tell me about an assassination attempt. Okay, that's a
different thing, and I gave him credit for that. Tell
me about why he ran from Vietnam and let Lura
and middle class Americans die. Or and while he bragged

(01:25:12):
about going to Orgy's instead.

Speaker 16 (01:25:14):
I don't know the details of what exactly went on
with his Vietnam stuff, but I will say this, this
is the obvious comparison. He was twenty two when Vietnam
was going on. Tim Waltz was a grown man and
the leader of his unit, and he abandoned them.

Speaker 12 (01:25:27):
So, since he was a spoiled little brat and his
daddy had given him four hundred million dollars and he
was twenty two and he wanted to get laid, he
let other people die for him. That seems like a
really compelling argument. You guys seem super brave and really
into veterans. I mean, Tim waltzs did exactly that. He
could have gone with his unit. Three of his unit died.
These were the men he was leading and told what

(01:25:48):
he would deploy with them, and then fifty thousand died
in Vietnam. None of them were billionaires kids, that's for sure.
None of them were rich kids like Donald Trump who
all dodged. And when you dodged the draft like that,
what you say is, I don't mind if a kid
from Minnesota or Nebraska dies on my behalf. I got
orgies to go to you know, what Donald Trump did

(01:26:08):
with veterans who were homeless in front of Trump Tower.

Speaker 6 (01:26:12):
He had them removed.

Speaker 12 (01:26:13):
He thought that they lowered his property values because those
veterans went to Vietnam. Oh, I guess they were dramatized
because Daddy didn't get them out so here it kicked
them off of my in front of my Trump Tower.
This rich bitch who ran, ran, ran, who never served,
who's a giant coward who doesn't know which ankle had
the bone spurs, has a temerity to go after a

(01:26:35):
veteran who serve for over two decades and has the
medals to show for it. It's disgusting.

Speaker 4 (01:26:42):
Let me, maybe this is a good place to start
winding down the conversation because does any of this actually matter? Like,
that's the question I want to pitch to both of you.
This is the vice president, the vice president's nominee that is,
so does litigating the details of his departure from Army
National Guard, like whether it's that, whether it's economic policy,
is is it going to have a meaningful effect on

(01:27:05):
the Harris ticket or on the Trump Vance ticket? Like
is Tim Walt? Does he really matter? And I'll start
with you on that one.

Speaker 3 (01:27:13):
Drink.

Speaker 17 (01:27:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 12 (01:27:14):
Look, I have to play defense on it because these
guys are immoral, so they keep smearing every Democratic candidate
in the same exact way. Oh, you dare to serve
in our armed services, We're gonna use it against you.

Speaker 6 (01:27:29):
We're gonna weaponize.

Speaker 12 (01:27:30):
So I'm not gonna let them do that, okay, especially
when their parties fill to the rim with cowards who
never serve.

Speaker 6 (01:27:36):
Okay, so you don't get the smear veterans after.

Speaker 12 (01:27:39):
You chose to run from every battle and start those
wars and then never serve in them. So I'm not
gonna let them get away with it in terms of
what people vote on. Go ahead, do your.

Speaker 6 (01:27:49):
Immoral smears of veterans. It's not gonna work. The only
thing people care about is how does this election affect
my life? The reason I was there's.

Speaker 12 (01:27:58):
Many reasons I was against, but one of them was
he kept talking about my legacy and I got to
have a second term, etc. I'm like, yeah, brother, what's
your policies? How are you going to help the average American?
But now we have a team that has a track
record of helping I mean, you want to talk about
Tim Walls.

Speaker 6 (01:28:14):
You're attacking him.

Speaker 12 (01:28:15):
He's a track record of passing dozens of bills that
help the average person in Minnesota. That's why he's intensely
popular in his own state. That's why these bills worked
because they weren't about ego building for tim walls. They're
about actually improving the lives of Americans. And Donald Trump
doesn't have that record. He has a record of what
he did one giant bill when he was in office,

(01:28:37):
enormous corporate tax cuts for his donors, and that's his legacy.

Speaker 6 (01:28:41):
So he's gonna run on that.

Speaker 12 (01:28:42):
Oh, I helped all the corporations, so oh, all the
corporations are my best friends. I gave them all the
biggest tax breaks and they're all now much richer and
you guys have to pay more taxes because of it.

Speaker 6 (01:28:51):
Go ahead, run on that record.

Speaker 12 (01:28:53):
And I think that it's going to be super obvious
who people should vote for.

Speaker 6 (01:28:57):
I think we're gonna win this actually relatively easily. Now.

Speaker 5 (01:29:00):
And will any final words, If you've got like one
minute to talk to this swing voter who was going
to decide this selection or swing, whether whether it's a
vote or not vote, might be their swing decision, what
do you say to them about this pick.

Speaker 16 (01:29:15):
Like, really, are you better off right now than you
were under the Trump administration? Economically, the economy was booming
under Trump and it absolutely crashed under Biden.

Speaker 6 (01:29:24):
Inflation is out of control.

Speaker 16 (01:29:26):
If you would even go to the grocery store, you
can tell gas prices are out of control. And why
they're at war with domestic energy. I mean, Kamal Harris
wants to ban fracking. She said that repeatedly, so you
have I mean, if you're talking about just core economic
issues like this, good is this team Harris Walt's going
to be good for your pocketbook? It's not there. They

(01:29:48):
have a slew of bad policies. Meanwhile, you know they're
trying to portray Trump vance as Romney Ryan. It's a
different Republican party. This is a pro worker Republican party
that had the leader of the Teamsters on epic Men.
You can both be pro worker and not indulge in
insane green delusions that kill your economy, and that's what
the Republicans are all about.

Speaker 3 (01:30:09):
All right, Well, thanks thanks to both of you, guys.

Speaker 4 (01:30:11):
I was gonna say, that's an interesting place to end,
because I think we'll just previewed where Republican messaging will
want to go. And whether or not Donald Trump carries that,
you know, successfully, is an open question. Trump and others
carry that successfully is an open question.

Speaker 3 (01:30:26):
And how it works against Waltz is an open question.
So thank you both. It was a very helpful discussion.

Speaker 6 (01:30:31):
Thank you, guys. Thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:30:35):
Wesley Bell has defeated Corey Bush in the race for
Missouri's first districts Democratic primary. He won ended up winning
by about six points, not five and a half points. Ryan,
you followed this race really closely. A lot of chatter
and the media today about what actually happened. I'm not
convinced that the media knows what actually happened, but I

(01:30:56):
am convinced that you know what actually happens.

Speaker 3 (01:30:58):
But please tell us.

Speaker 5 (01:30:59):
Well, So, I mean, the headline is the you know,
the squad is now depending on how you count it,
shrinking from what was eight members at the BA if
you count summerly in Great Gazar.

Speaker 4 (01:31:09):
Should we start crossing people off on your books? Coyeah,
you can see it. I'm right, Yeah, we got it.

Speaker 5 (01:31:13):
So, yeah, you've got Corey Bush and Jamal Bowmen. So
of those six of two of them have lost primaries.
But have cost a pack a combined total of at
least twenty five million dollars to knock them out. That's
seventeen million in Jamal Bowman's race, and now eight million

(01:31:34):
dropped on dropped on Corey Busch to win the All
the votes are not counted yet, but we're looking at
about sixty three. Yeah, as you see up there, sixty
three thousand for Wesley Bell pushing fifty six thousand over
fifty six thousands for Corey Bush.

Speaker 3 (01:31:51):
So he ended up being a pretty close.

Speaker 5 (01:31:53):
Race for you know, as as massively outspent as as
Corey Busch was. You know, what we learned from the
Nina Turner race and the Summer Lee race is that
millions of dollars in camp in spending on TV can
move the needle roughly twenty to thirty points. It's it's

(01:32:17):
it's a dramatic amount that you can kind of push
the number now if you have. Summer Lee ended up
winning that race where she dropped twenty five thirty points
in a couple of weeks.

Speaker 3 (01:32:28):
She won it by a you know, just a few
thousand votes.

Speaker 5 (01:32:32):
Nina Turner ended up losing that race by something like
four thousand votes. Very close, very close race as well.
But people are not plugged in. People don't have as
you know, a lot of voters don't have a depth
of feeling about a candidate such that millions of dollars
is not going to sway their their choice for that race.

(01:32:54):
And so you get a lot of debating about whether
or not spending APEX spending twenty five million dollar in
these two races matters, which to me is the craziest
question you could ever ask. Like, I get it that
people who can afford to give twenty five million dollars
have enough money that they're not going to be poor
as a result of giving it, But they still are

(01:33:15):
not spending that.

Speaker 3 (01:33:15):
Money for no reason.

Speaker 5 (01:33:16):
And it's almost insulting to their intelligence to suggest that
anybody would spend twenty five million dollars to have no effect,
Like why would you do that?

Speaker 3 (01:33:26):
Yeah, just buy it.

Speaker 5 (01:33:28):
You know, there's things they could spend that money on,
like an elevator, an elevator for your garage so you
can move your cars up and down the different Yeah,
like rommy, Like that would be a cool thing to
have if you're super rich. Instead, you're going to waste
it for no reason. On a political campaign, they have
a lot of money to raise the money. The money matters,
so and this does not count, by the way, the million,

(01:33:49):
we don't know the fine Well, well we can figure
out the final total later. But most of the money
that west Bell raised directly to his campaign was bundled
a pack and that that money is actually more valuable
than the eight million. And it's complicated, but not that complicated.
So if you are a super pac like Apex super

(01:34:11):
Pac which is called United Democracy Project, you have to
pay higher rates for cable television and television advertising, so
your eight million dollars doesn't go as far as it
as as it does for the candidate themselves. So the
candidate gets discounted gets discounted rates. Also, the candidate can

(01:34:31):
coordinate because with their own campaign, the candidate can say,
all right, I want to do you know, a million
dollars on this channel. I want to do a million
dollars targeting these voters. I want to do a million
over here, whereas and these are the exact messages that
I want to hit. Whereas the super pac is just
out on its own, you know, running its own polling

(01:34:52):
and running its own operation. So for those two reasons,
the ability to coordinate the money and the discount you
get on tele vision advertising. It's much better to get
money directly to the campaign. And APAC raised we'll find
out in the next couple of weeks, but enormous sum
directly to Wesley Bell's campaign. And that's on top of
the eight million dollars that they spent through their superpack.

Speaker 4 (01:35:15):
And I want to ask you now about how that
money was spent, because if we look at the polling,
this is the next element D two that we put
this up on the screen, it was absolutely all over
the place. So this is from five thirty eights sort
of coalating of the poles. Last one had Bell up
by six points. Now, these small house races, the polling
is usually going to be scattered through a lot of

(01:35:37):
different time periods of the reliable pulling. At least but
one before that had Bell up twenty three points late
June early July. Another one though that was also taken
in mid June, had Bell only up by one point,
and then one from all the way back in February
have Bell by twenty two points. The one constant in
that is Corey Bush never led in one of those
serious polls, at least as five thirty eight defines them

(01:36:00):
as worthy polls. So how were there wild swings in
public sentiment as it came to Corey Bush. I think
probably the likelier story is that these races are just
really hard to pull, and you know, support for Bell
was probably around you know, ten plus. Then Corey Bush
did come in towards the end of the race, and actually,

(01:36:23):
if there were poles, finding her down by twenty three
points made it closer than it probably should have been.
So what were they talking about? And what was west
Bell doing with the a PAC money in terms of
messaging that was weighing on voter's minds yesterday.

Speaker 5 (01:36:37):
And you know, credit to Mark Mellon who's the head
of the Melman Group and also the founder of d MFI,
which is like basically an a Pack affiliate. Some of
these poles are from Yeah there, he's the one that
did the plus six pole that was in the plus
foio and the plus one pole and I think those
are those look pretty accurate. Like he's so he's a

(01:36:57):
polster and also runs DMFI uh which was which was
the which was the super pac that was running before
APAC developed its own super pack and it still runs
in Democratic primaries.

Speaker 3 (01:37:10):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:37:11):
What Corey Bush was hitting Wessey Belt with everything in
the kitchen sink, including in some in one of her
final ads, attacking him for sleeping with subordinates as a prosecutor,
as a he was a kind of reformist kind of
Soros back to d a in in Saint Louis. He got,

(01:37:31):
he got sued. He was able, Uh, he was able
to or for some reason the lawsuit that would have
involved a lot of dirty laundry being aired was delayed
past the election. Uh, and it was scheduled to take
place maybe six eight weeks ago or so, and on

(01:37:53):
the day of the hearing it was then postponed. So
that that really helped Wesley Bell because he was he's
getting based that he's getting sued by.

Speaker 3 (01:38:02):
Women in his office who either fired or who quit.

Speaker 5 (01:38:06):
And are making all sorts of allegations and maybe those
will come out a year from now and we'll get
a Cory Bush Wesley Bell rematch at a Jamal Bowman
Richie Torres race.

Speaker 4 (01:38:20):
Well, how did how did Belle successfully sort of.

Speaker 5 (01:38:24):
The same playbook that he's that that they went after
summerly with that they went to Jamal Bowman with at
Corey Bush is a radical, she's out of step with Democrats.

Speaker 3 (01:38:34):
Even as a reformist prosecutor. He was able to sort
of make that argument.

Speaker 5 (01:38:37):
Well, that's yeah, because I mean, being a reformist prosecutor
in Saint Louis is very popular among Democrats.

Speaker 3 (01:38:46):
Yeah. So yeah, just just the ads.

Speaker 5 (01:38:50):
None of the ads, to your point, were about Israel Palestine.
Apex spent in the twenty five million dollars they spent
on these two races, all most zero was spent talking
about Israel Palestine. There was one ad that Apax super
Pac ran shortly after October seventh where they came after

(01:39:11):
Corey Bush and they mentioned and it was about Israel
Palestine and you know, basically calling her Hama supporter. And
that was before Wesley Bell had even jumped in the race.
And we can talk about this if we have this
this audio that we published over at drop site News.
Wesley Bell was originally running for Senate and there were

(01:39:36):
rumors last summer that that were published in this in
the Saint Louis Post Dispatch that he was actually running
for Senate to raise his name identification so that he
could then jump into the race against Corey Bush and
benefit from all of the super Pac spending that is

(01:39:57):
always there to go against anybody in the squad. After
October seventh, that that that level of.

Speaker 3 (01:40:03):
Money that was available increased. So he called.

Speaker 12 (01:40:08):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:40:08):
He called Corey Bush after the Saint Louis Paper had
said that he was thinking about doing this and and
swore to her that that absolutely was not happening.

Speaker 3 (01:40:17):
We do we have that audio if we run that.

Speaker 4 (01:40:19):
There's some stuff that I know because I just just
just his game.

Speaker 6 (01:40:24):
Long enough bills are there. Their Hollman is the heck
he is.

Speaker 11 (01:40:33):
In the in the proof of.

Speaker 13 (01:40:34):
It is name one legitimate reported at one.

Speaker 6 (01:40:38):
They eat it close to that and this is stupid, exactly. No,
you're right, you're right, you're right.

Speaker 12 (01:40:44):
Don't big, don't big, don't be big for even a
second that that's the case. And I'm telling you right now,
I'm telling you my word, not running.

Speaker 3 (01:40:56):
Soren.

Speaker 4 (01:40:56):
This is audio a Bell telling Bush that Holloman was
a quote hack.

Speaker 3 (01:41:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:41:01):
So basically, so basically what he's said, what's going on?
So basically what he says is that the author of
the piece is a total hack. Everybody believes he's a hack.
The reporter should not be believed. There's no chance. Don't think
for even a second that that's the case. I'm telling
you right now, I'm telling you on my word, i
am not running against you. That is not happening. And

(01:41:23):
Corey Bush says, well, you know, I'm just thinking. You know,
Steve Roberts, who ran against her last time, had said
the same thing, and but that he wouldn't run against her,
he wouldn't jump from one race to another.

Speaker 3 (01:41:36):
But he did.

Speaker 5 (01:41:37):
And he's like, I'm no Steve Roberts. He says, I
ain't no Steve Roberts. Steve Roberts then ended up endorsing
Westy Bell. So anyway, so shockingly he lied to her
and then jumped into the race. But we could see
a rematch in twenty twenty six, who knows, we'll see what.

Speaker 3 (01:41:57):
And Corey Bush got attacked.

Speaker 5 (01:41:58):
For for paying her husband to do security that that
that quote unquote scan.

Speaker 4 (01:42:04):
Her now husband, right, while also being a defund the
police type progressive it was that was a big item
in conservative media.

Speaker 3 (01:42:13):
Right, that wouldn't have mattered. It is hard, but.

Speaker 5 (01:42:16):
Yeah, and also like the whole premise of the movie,
Bodyguard is about falling in So I don't see how.

Speaker 3 (01:42:22):
Everybody loves that.

Speaker 4 (01:42:24):
Well, I just mean for your average voter there, if
there's a sense or an aura of kind of drama
and chaos around someone, that can someone else comes in
and says, you know, I'm a no drama.

Speaker 3 (01:42:34):
Obama or whatever it is.

Speaker 4 (01:42:35):
It's that can that can actually hurt someone if there's
a lot of like scandal and.

Speaker 5 (01:42:39):
Yeah, that was that was Yes, Corey Bush is causing
too much chaos.

Speaker 3 (01:42:43):
I mean like it's about her.

Speaker 16 (01:42:44):
And this.

Speaker 4 (01:42:47):
So Crystalin and I back at the Hill, Uh interviewed
Corey Bush the morning after she won her primary. So yeah,
that was a while.

Speaker 3 (01:42:59):
It feels like a while ago.

Speaker 4 (01:43:00):
And I just have always been frustrated on some of
the conservative attacks on court Bush because there's she's I'm
very curious about her future because I think she falls
into sort of whatever the we talk about red meat
maybe blue meat. I think she falls into that sometimes.
But she's also a more interesting person than some people give.

Speaker 3 (01:43:19):
Her credit for. Extremely interesting.

Speaker 4 (01:43:21):
Yeah, here's where her future goes.

Speaker 3 (01:43:22):
I hope we haven't heard the last of her.

Speaker 4 (01:43:26):
Ryan in the UK, the Southampton fallout, the tragedy that
happened in Southampton continues to rock the United Kingdom. Protests
are erupting all over London, and Elon Musk is of
course playing very close attention to geopolitics, as he always does.
Worth noting in literally every discussion of Elon Musk and

(01:43:48):
foreign policy that he is a defense contractor, so let's
keep that in mind.

Speaker 3 (01:43:52):
It's not quite as.

Speaker 4 (01:43:53):
Relevant here as it is when he weighs in on
Israel or Taiwan and China, but always worth noting here.
Now Elon Musk has been all over let's actually just
put e one up on the screen. This is an
article from Politico Europe. The headline is UKPM slams Elon
Musk for saying fire right riots for quote inevitable. So

(01:44:14):
a spokesperson for Prime Minister kre Starmer came out and
said there was quote no justification for Elon Musk continuing
to say that Europe is heading towards a civil.

Speaker 3 (01:44:24):
War, that the.

Speaker 4 (01:44:26):
Labor parties policies and actually the Conservative parties policies over
the last decade plus. And this is something that a
lot of excellent writers have pointed out at Unheard where
I work now that those policies were inevitably The word
inevitable has been used a lot in these conversations. Were
inevitably going to come to this climax? If it is

(01:44:47):
a climax, Elon Musk seems to think there's more to come,
full civil war, to come to the point where.

Speaker 3 (01:44:52):
Let's put up this next element.

Speaker 4 (01:44:55):
This is yeah, so he says to care Starmer, shouldn't
you be concerned about a tax on all communities? When
Starmer says we will not tolerate attacks on mosques or
on Muslim communities, this is in reference to the riots
that have broken out after uh there was there were
killings of children in Southampton that were initially attributed to

(01:45:18):
like immigrants. It turned out that it was the child
of immigrants, so a British we know so far.

Speaker 5 (01:45:25):
Was what originally circulated on social media and heavily on Twitter,
was that it was an illegal Muslim that stabbed.

Speaker 3 (01:45:33):
These and killed these three little girls.

Speaker 5 (01:45:37):
It turned out it was a Christian who was born
in Wales to Rwanda, to Rwandan parents, to Rwandan parents,
and the UK took the step of actually putting out
like look, no, like this is this is who did this?

Speaker 3 (01:45:50):
This is miss This is misinformation.

Speaker 5 (01:45:52):
Regardless it it would not justify lynch mobs going through
the street trying to beat, trying to eat up Muslims
throughout throughout the UK. Yeah, gosh, nothing and Elon Musk's
like to attempt to like both sides it there is.

Speaker 3 (01:46:10):
I think.

Speaker 5 (01:46:13):
Doesn't do justice to the reality of the situation that it.
That is, like the rampaging mobs are in general like racist,
anti immigrant folks going after Muslims and refuge and asylum seekers.

Speaker 4 (01:46:28):
Well, what's happened is anybody who looks Muslim In the
aftermath of the original outbreak of protests against Muslim communities
in the UK, Muslim communities have responded to them and
there has been I mean there genuinely now has been
outbreaks of unrest on quite literally both sides. That's not
where what it started with though, was this. I guess

(01:46:50):
a lot of people this is has also justified Cure
Starmer's horrific policies of calling for more facial recognition and
more surveillance of social media, more censorship of social media,
because there was disinformation that circulated on social media and
seems to have provoked some of the response. But a
newsflash to our technocrats in the EU and in Westminster.

(01:47:12):
This is going to people will spread disinformation at pubs
and bars, whether or not there's mother efing Twitter for
them to spread the disinformation on. They will still organize.
People have organized mobs for a long time before social
media came along. Disinformation is not something that you can
technocratically completely suppress. It's not going away, no matter how

(01:47:34):
how many you know civil liberties you clamp down on.

Speaker 5 (01:47:38):
But Elon musk Oh, go ahead, yeah, no, I mentioned
this on the show yesterday. But if it's it's it's
an interesting historical fact to your point that pick pick
a pick a riot or revolution and uprising that you're
familiar with, uh, and then go search like the origin
of how it happened.

Speaker 3 (01:47:55):
World War One, and it almost all war or a
world war.

Speaker 5 (01:48:01):
It almost always was based on something that wasn't actually accurate.

Speaker 3 (01:48:06):
You're going to do the British take on the American Revolution?

Speaker 5 (01:48:10):
Oh yeah, that one too, right, maybe the Boston massacre
and the Party some of that, Yeah, but yes, but
what you always also find is that these structural conditions
were in place for something to set off what came.

(01:48:32):
So it's true that yes, usually it's misinformation and hundreds
of years ago predated Twitter or.

Speaker 3 (01:48:40):
Some mutation, but it also doesn't.

Speaker 5 (01:48:42):
It also doesn't justify algorithms pushing like obviously false things
in front of people's faces, like like where where's the
community note? Like where where's this?

Speaker 4 (01:48:53):
Like that's why we should get rid of algorithms. Go
back to old Twitter, where it was just your timeline
and the and it wasn't put its thumb on the scale.

Speaker 3 (01:49:01):
And just to hear from your friends.

Speaker 4 (01:49:02):
Yeah, yeah, and you know you can be like okay,
so five minutes ago because this is further down in
my feed someone said this. Now you know, five minutes
later and this is the new post, and you can
like make your human being with you know, a brain.
You know, not everybody is going to be brilliant at
making those judgments, but uh, it's it's better than Twitter's

(01:49:23):
like algorithm making.

Speaker 3 (01:49:24):
The judgments for right.

Speaker 5 (01:49:25):
And also the mob didn't care when they were like,
actually it's a Christian from Wales who had rewarded parents.

Speaker 3 (01:49:32):
It's a good point. That's a really whatever we're rampaging well.

Speaker 4 (01:49:35):
And the broader point is that the levels of migration
to the UK have been unsustainable.

Speaker 3 (01:49:42):
So that's what this like, which.

Speaker 5 (01:49:43):
Again, as I mentioned before, it they have a channel
and water around them.

Speaker 3 (01:49:48):
It's also good luck with the wall.

Speaker 4 (01:49:51):
Also a very problematic birth rate, as you have talked
about before. So there's questions about all of that baked
into this, but basically there's this broader argument that is
not just shared by people on the kind of for
far right, so called far right, but also increasingly people
on the left that look at this and say this
has been unsustainable over the last decade. And there's a

(01:50:15):
very necessary conversation about how neoliberal wars pushed these migration
waves into Europe and to the United States. But the
sort of downstream effect of that has been really high
levels of migration from places that have values that are
different than Western values, and that is going to whether
it was Western people coming to their countries or people

(01:50:38):
that have different values coming to the UK. You're putting
two very different cultures together in confined spaces. What did
you think was going to happen? That's what Musk is saying,
and we can put E three up on the screen.
We tease this earlier in the show, but when Eli
Musk is repeatedly tweeting about how civil wars coming through Europe.

(01:51:01):
It gets before it becomes a fine line between prediction
and what did you say, Ryan provocation?

Speaker 3 (01:51:08):
Yeah, civil wars brewing.

Speaker 4 (01:51:09):
Europe appears to be head of her civil war. These
are actually all from last year, like from after October seventh,
so late October to early November last year. But Elon
Musk is very convinced that civil war is coming to Europe.

Speaker 3 (01:51:21):
I think a lot of people.

Speaker 4 (01:51:22):
Are increasingly convinced that civil war is coming, not just
to Europe but to the broader West. And anytime you
have outbreaks of civil unrest like this in ways that
people have not been used to in the last you know,
if you grew up in the eighties and nineties, this
might feel unfamiliar, even though there has been a lot
of civil unrest.

Speaker 5 (01:51:40):
If he would have said Bangladesh, she'd be looking so
precient right now, civil war coming to Bangladesh. But he
keeps saying about America too. Yeah, he's invested in this.
He's one of those guys like and hopefully not literally right.
It's hard sometimes to know what people like him mean
when they say civil war do they really mean? Because

(01:52:01):
when we think of civil wars like we think of
like armies that are fighting each other over you know,
pre dominance within a country. He does, he mean mobs rampaging,
stabbing each other, beating each other what degree? If that's
all he means, then okay, I guess England's got one.

Speaker 4 (01:52:21):
Now there's clearly a cultural war, and as the culture
war civil war when to this example, the child of
these Rwandan immigrants was from Wales, it was not quote
unquote foreign. So then it does kind of become the
argument that it's right, that's true, but it does become

(01:52:41):
civil war if it's internice because of these people who
are born with all of the rights as citizens.

Speaker 3 (01:52:50):
Well again we're getting to the Whales distinction.

Speaker 4 (01:52:52):
But let's just hypothetically say it is from London all
of the same rights as you white Londoner. That that
means these values are just as I mean, that's what
uh is what a lot of people would say. These
values are just as as British as your values. So
is it a hot civil war? Is it a cold
civil war? I think is an open question. Does it

(01:53:14):
keep rupturing into civil unrest like this or is it managed?
And you know, is it managed in a way that
becomes better or worse. That's the question. I do think
at least the premise that there's a war or a
clash is obviously true, but whether that becomes something much
much worse and much much darker is not yet determined.

Speaker 5 (01:53:37):
I hope we manage our imperial decline better, yes, than
the British managed there is maybe we need to look
into the Dutch imperial decline. They seem to have managed
it pretty well. Like they seem pretty I guess it's
they have enough distance from their imperial decline also tiny.

Speaker 3 (01:53:54):
That they're kind of comfy with it.

Speaker 5 (01:53:55):
But I mean they were absolutely massive and destructive and
lately they they caused a lot of misery for a
long stretch time.

Speaker 3 (01:54:04):
Their borders now at least, and they did collapse pretty badly.

Speaker 5 (01:54:10):
So so Elon Musk though announced if we can put
up this this final element that Johnald Trump announced sorry
that he that he's going to be doing a quote
major interview with Elon Musk. Details to follow. My guess
is that he will do this on spaces.

Speaker 3 (01:54:29):
Santis though.

Speaker 5 (01:54:30):
What an absolute disaster that that DeSantis one was.

Speaker 4 (01:54:36):
When you know Trump doesn't put up with that stuff. Like,
even if the lights are wrong in a room, he'll
be like, turn the lights off, they're too bright.

Speaker 3 (01:54:42):
He does not put up with port production.

Speaker 4 (01:54:44):
At the NABG thing, the National Assession of Black Journalist
thing last week, when the audio was bad, it was
driving him visibly crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:54:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:54:52):
Right, He's been doing a top shelf like production work,
celebrity apprentice, et cetera for too long to be putting
up with lousy audio.

Speaker 4 (01:55:01):
He doesn't like it. So that tells us Spaces has advanced.

Speaker 5 (01:55:06):
We'll find out. We'll see Elon Musk do not screw
this up. Trump's gonna be very mad at you.

Speaker 4 (01:55:13):
But Elon Musk says, even he denied the forty five
million monthly thing, he says he's pledged I think like
one hundred and.

Speaker 3 (01:55:18):
Eighty million something like that.

Speaker 4 (01:55:20):
It's it's nebulous what we actually know about it to
the trumpere election campaigns. So for that kind of money, maybe
you put up with that audio, or you put up
with a glitching Spaces. But it does solidify I guess
it should solidify the new or union between Trump and Musk.
With the new alliance between Trump and Musk, Trump is
now pro electric vehicles. He was in a tesla. Did

(01:55:41):
you see his cyber Trek interview.

Speaker 3 (01:55:43):
He hates electric he hates evs.

Speaker 4 (01:55:45):
And now he loves them, and he said he's openly
said he has to love them because of Elon, which
is like a perfect Trump and construction.

Speaker 5 (01:55:51):
On that note, also, can we bask in the delicious
irony of Elon Musk saying that he was taking over
Twitter because he was mad about the election interference and
it's now just like wildly tilting it towards Donald Trump
in the.

Speaker 3 (01:56:06):
Last few months of an election. That's kind of funny.

Speaker 6 (01:56:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:56:10):
Well, Also, I wanted to bask in him saying major
interview because it reminds me of Christmas story where he
says he's won a major award and it's the.

Speaker 3 (01:56:16):
Leg lamp Major Interview, Major Awards, the same thing. On
that note, that's the end of Counterpoint. Hope it goes
better for him than than the leg lamp did.

Speaker 4 (01:56:26):
Yeah, yeah, that is a great note to end today's
episode on. Just a really bad joke from me. This
is perfect, pitch perfect. But thank you everybody for tuning
in and continuing to tune in Breaking Points dot Com
if you want to subscribe to the full show, get
it in your inbox, you get it early, no breaks,
You get all of counterpoints, which is nice. We don't

(01:56:48):
you get access to every segment, as opposed to the
few that get posted to the YouTube.

Speaker 3 (01:56:52):
We were posting them all now, oh well I might
as well. They're all good, I go. I promise you
don't want to miss a single one.

Speaker 4 (01:56:58):
I promise they're all good. Yeah, we listen, We're always on.

Speaker 3 (01:57:01):
That's right, that's right. I never missed leg day. All right,
see you guys.

Speaker 6 (01:57:05):
Don

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