Finding Joy in the Messy Middle of Motherhood

In this unfiltered Brown Ambition mama check-in, Mandi sits down with fellow podcasters and moms Jessica Norwood and Rana Campbell for an honest conversation about motherhood, depression, grief, survival mode, and rediscovering joy amidst the chaos.

Mandi opens up about her battle with depression and what it means to mother while navigating mental health challenges. Rana shares her journey through grief and juggling caregiving for both her children and her ailing mother. Jessica reflects on living with chronic pain, parenting through fatigue, and the gratitude that comes with having support.

Together, the trio talk about the silent struggles moms face—postpartum transitions, work-from-home pressures, and the impossible balance between self-care and survival—and how they’re each reclaiming small pockets of joy in their everyday lives.

 

💡 You’ll Learn

• Mandi opens up about living with depression and the complexity of being a mom in survival mode.
  -Rana on grief, caregiving, and trying to shield her kids from chaos.
  -Jessica shares how chronic pain impacts her motherhood and the value of having a supportive partner.
  -The invisible weight of motherhood—mental load, burnout, and the myth of “having it all.”
  -The guilt of “just surviving”—and redefining what thriving really means.
  - Finding joy in small ways: cooking, gardening, dancing, and laughter..                                           -The need for community, support, and sisterhood among mothers.

🧠 Key Takeaways

• Depression is a liar: It tells you you’re alone, unworthy, or toxic—but speaking it aloud breaks its power.
• Moms need mothering too: Community care and physical presence matter as much as emotional support.
• Joy can be small and deliberate: A home-cooked meal, a dance break, or a solo coffee can change your day.
• Workplace empathy is survival: Corporate policies must evolve to support mothers’ well-being.
• Healing requires honesty: Naming what hurts opens space for connection, laughter, and growth.

 

 Episode Challenge

Take one small action this week that’s just for you—no kids, no chores, no guilt.
Cook, dance, nap, or call a friend who gets it. Because joy counts, even in the messy middle.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, ba fam, let's be real for a second, and
y'all know I keep it a book. The job market
has been brutal, now not brutal trash, especially for women
of color. Over three hundred thousand of us have disappeared
from the workforce this year alone, and not by choice,
but because of layoffs, disappearing DEI programs, and stagnant wages

(00:20):
that keep cutting us out of opportunity. Our unemployment rate
has jumped to over seven percent, while our pay gap
continues to widen. I know all of that sounds dire,
but here's what I want y'all to know. You do
not have to wait for the system to save you.
That's exactly why I created the Mandy money Makers Group
coaching community. It is a coaching community that is built

(00:41):
for us by us. Inside the community, we're not just
talking about how to negotiate or to how to get
the job that you want. It's about finding purpose in
your career. It's about finding communities and others, feeling seen,
feeling heard, and also having a sounding board and a
mirror to reflect your own magic, your own sparkle right

(01:03):
back to yourself. In this community, you'll get group coaching
led by me, but you also get peer to peer
accountability with proven tools and resources that can help you
do what we have always done since rise. Even when
the odds are stacked against us, despite all the challenges,
we will rise. If you're interested in joining the Mandy

(01:24):
money Makers community and having that support to bolster you
and help you tap back into your magic so that
you can lead your career with intention and heart and
your own intuition, trusting that again, please join us. You
can find information in the show notes of today's episodes,
or go to mandymoney dot com slash community. That's Mandy

(01:47):
m A n d I money dot com slash community.
I would love to see y'all there. Enrollment is open,
so please go check out mandymoney dot com slash community
today being held together by hope and prayers right now.

(02:07):
So if it just clunk one of my screws got loose, I.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Know mine's really weird today too.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
That's I love that you have a Should I make
my mic visible in the screen so everyone else's is? No,
it's for continuity, Like I think it's the majority of.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
My listeners still coming just through the audio.

Speaker 3 (02:28):
But that's type A in me.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
Because the YouTube audience. We're going to manifest continued growth,
slow and steady and for us to please. Yes, yeah,
we love our youtubes. It's made me thirty four dollars
and sixty four cents. We love it. Actually to the
YouTubers though, because the comments they're just so kind. The
trolls haven't really found Brown Ambition yet.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
That's good.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
I did find that one episode after Kamala lost, but
you know, since then, I just OURBA fan on YouTube
is just so sweet and so positive. So while while
you're listening, go follow Brown a Vission on YouTube. But
let me say hello to my beautiful Brown Table guests
for today. They are familiar faces. This is our six

(03:17):
we're calling it our six month by annual Mama check
in Uh with Jessica Norwood and Reina Campbell my two
podcast and Mama Sisters in Arms, Sisters in arms, Like
what we at battle, Jessica, is aren't we aren't we
We're all fighting our but we're like the This is
like the un We're just different countries fighting our waging

(03:38):
our own wars, and now we are assembling to debrief.
But y'all have both become pals of mine. Jessica is
the co host of the Sugar Daddy podcast, which she
co hosts with her husband Brandon Norwood. And we have
Reina Campbell, who is the beautiful, delightful host of the
Dreams and Drive podcast. Has been doing that for quite

(04:00):
a while.

Speaker 3 (04:01):
Almost ten years. Like in next year, crazy.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
I hit my tenure in September. I didn't. It kind
of felt like a fortieth birthday or like a bird
like I'm just like a little So I was like,
I don't want to make a big deal out of this,
but ten years, ten years is a big deal. You
should I know I should. Well, yeah, I haven't been
in like the right headspace. I've just been I've come

(04:28):
out of the closet Raina. I told Jessica a little
bit while we were waiting on you that I've come
out of the closet and I'm kind of I'm opening
up about my struggles with depression.

Speaker 3 (04:39):
And at first I thought you were going to say
something else.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
What we're gonna say.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Most when people come out of the closet.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
Anymore, Okay, you can't shock anybody anymore. It's like s
right by, who needs labels? No, not that kind of closet.
The depression closet. Just I've been talking more about I've
had depression basically my whole life since I was a
little kid, since I was about the age my oldest
son is now. And I think so it's just tough.

(05:14):
It's been. It's been tough, and it's been like exhausting.
And so when the ten year anniversary of Brown Ambition
came up, I had plans underway to do things, and
depression won that battle. I'm not gonna lie. It just
really had me. It's had me feeling, it's had me
very isolating, like isolating myself and withdrawing, and it's almost

(05:40):
like a trick. It's like if I just disappear more
and more, and every time, you know, you disappear a
little bit more, you kind of For me, it was
sort of like not a test, but just like a
way of validating that idea that oh well it's fine,
like nobody needs or cares that much. If I could

(06:03):
just sort of disappear and there's no like big ripples,
then I was right all along. You know, I don't
need to like this isn't that big of a deal.
But yeah, I'm just it's sad to admit that but
in a way it feels a little liberating. And I

(06:24):
was hoping that one of the things we could talk
about today is like, well, what I've been what's about
on my mind? A lot is being depressed as a
mom and what a weird what a weird like relationship
those two things have to each other. It's it's bizarre,

(06:45):
but it's also like in a lot of ways, like
my saving grace, my like life raft amidst all, this
is the fact that I'm a mom, and it like
forces me to dig myself out of those you know,
like those challenging times and oh like even talking about
it right now, I'm still like a little uncomfortable. But

(07:06):
I haven't come out of the depression closet with y'all before,
so it's my first time. So thanks for Wedding Space.
It better be I pay for those river Side subscription.
It better be safe.

Speaker 3 (07:22):
And I think it's just so timely because I've been
thinking about like this, this theme of when you're a mom,
that always is going on, right, you can't turn it
on and off unless you want to be a bad mom.
And like as these kids, right, but for the most part,
we all are intentional moms. We all show up for
our kids all the time, but at what cost? And

(07:43):
how do you, you know, navigate when you're not feeling
your best, when you're not always want to be mentally there?
But you have these kids who are like, feed me,
take me to school, you know, hug me, build.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
A magnetile tower with me again.

Speaker 3 (07:58):
Again, right, So yeah, very timely for me as well.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
Like what's y'all experience been with like have you ever
like as as mothers, I think there's a lot of
we do I think as a collective understand like postpartum
depression fairly well probably not definitely, not as well as
we could, right, but there's at least among moms, like
post prime depression. The marketing campaign's been working, girl, Like
we're aware, and doctors are aware, your primary care, your

(08:27):
guy knows, check it in with you. But being in
the messy middle of like you know, mothering adolescents and
they're growing up and they're so aware, and my five
year old's so plugged in and me being conscious of
like the kind of the kind of environment I was
in at his age and sort of where my depression

(08:49):
originated from. It was from growing up in like a
really volatile household where it wasn't like I wasn't necessarily
the target of anything super traumatic, but I was a
witness to it, and my being okay became really essential
in my mind, like I had to be okay. And

(09:11):
I think, even as I'm saying this out loud now,
I'm I always say, like, depression is a big liar.
It lies, and it tries to tell you that you're
not good and that you're toxic, and that things will
end up the way that like things will go in
a in a bad direction. But even as I'm kind
of describing the way that I grew up, I can

(09:33):
comfort myself knowing that my son. I think about my
five year old most because he's you know, so so present.
He's just like he's entered consciousness in a very intense
a way. Mm hmmm. They always always listening. I can't,

(09:56):
you know, but I have to, like I have to
remind myself that he's not going to experience what I experienced,
and that I do feel at least I know that
he's going to be seen by me, like I'm going
to see him, and if he starts, if he starts
exhibiting any any signs that like I was showing at

(10:18):
his age that would have told someone who cared to
look that I was depressed as a little kid. Like,
he'll have a mama who is so locked in, and
at least I'll know I can support him through that.
But it's it's hard to parent, you know, a kid
at an age when you know that you're like, it

(10:40):
makes you it's like a mirror back kind of reflecting,
making you think about your own childhood a little bit.
And I just got to I don't know how to
put a bow on that other than just to say
that's what I'm feeling. Sometimes is like, oh shit, I
don't want I don't want him to experience what I
did and to be talking on a podcast thirty years

(11:01):
later about how he's oppressed. I've been depressed since five.

Speaker 3 (11:08):
You you know, I mean, you haven't blamed anyone, right, yeahfully.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
I would never, But being like, you know that book
Grumpy Monkey, No you don't, Oh my god, Grumpy Monkey.
It's such a good book about depression without being about depression.
But it's a kid's book and it's it's the Monkey

(11:35):
I wish. I think that the name of the author
is Susanne Collins we read it a lot, and it's
basically a book about a monkey who feels grumpy and
everyone around him is like, but it's a beautiful day.
Don't be grumpy. But look at all these bananas. Don't
be grumpy. But come, you know, the hyaenas are like, come,
come laugh with us, and the the I almost a dinosaur, no,

(11:58):
like keep it to the to the aa. The gorillas like,
you know, come dance with me. And everyone's means well,
but they're trying to stop the monkey feeling grumpy. And
at the end of the book he just gets to
be grumpy and then the feeling changes.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, sometimes you need to just sit in the feeling
and feel your feels.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah, harder to practice.

Speaker 3 (12:24):
Then, that's so true. I've been feeling like that. I
don't for me, it hasn't been depression manifesting like in
that way. But I think, you know, I think we
talked about this on our last episode. But my father
died pat last year in November, and so I feel
like I've been navigating grief but not fully grieving because

(12:48):
I feel like if I go into the throes of
what it means to grieve, as you know, you see
your TV and all that stuff. Right, Like I just
want to, you know, just scream and be alone, and
but I can't because I have two kids who need me.
So I feel for me, it's like, how do I
still allow myself to grieve but not lose everything around me?

(13:09):
And then like right now I'm dealing with the sick mother.
Like for me, I feel like I'm just constantly navigating
chaos and trying to like make sure it doesn't land
on the kids, right, like it's landing on me, it's
landing on everybody else, but like I just don't want
them to have to feel it. But it's kind of like,
you know, I was watching Chernobyl. This is gonna be

(13:30):
so so uh this is this is Have you guys
seen have you seen that the HBO series?

Speaker 1 (13:36):
I don't know, but I know what happened.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yeah, it doesn't sound happy in rainbows, but basically.

Speaker 3 (13:43):
There's a character, Yeah, there's a character who like I
guess she her fetus absorbed all the radiation she was pregnant, right,
So the fetus absorbed the radiation and it didn't affect
the mother as much as it affected her her. So
I kind of feel like I'm like absorbing everything around

(14:05):
the kids so that they don't feel it, but at
what cost. And that's really been difficult for me to navigate.
Like I just feel sad sometimes, right, and I just
don't know what to do with it. But I know
that I still have to try to make moments of
joy for my kids. Although I'm feeling sad and sometimes
it doesn't feel fair, but at the same time, it's

(14:25):
not their fault, you know. It's like this weird feeling
of like it has nothing to do with them, but like,
I just want to be sad, but it's just weird.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
Carry the extra weight of not being able to just
be sad because you're trying to shield them from her.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
Yeah, And I mean I can just be sad, but
then they'll be like Mommy, what's wrong, And I'll be
like I miss Grandpa. Then my oldest son, who remembers him,
will be like I miss Grandpa too, and then he
just goes down, you know, rabbit hole.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
Wait, but in our last session, Raina, we talked about
you finding a therapist. Oh did you do that?

Speaker 3 (15:04):
I did? I did? I did? Okay, then she got
a nine to five and she's like, I can't do therapy.
I'm looking for any one. Oh, I'm looking for anyone.
I guess it wasn't working out for her. You know,
she was doing it solo and she someone approached her
to work corporate or do something like I think with children,

(15:25):
or she works as in the educational system now. So
I'm like, girl, we were just vibing. You just went
out and left me.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
No, it's hard being a therapist.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah, I could not. Oh my gosh, taking one.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
My therapist also got a nine to five. I had
seen her for five years. She saw me through my
whole first pregnancy, my first four years of my son's life.
And then she yeah, it was too. It was really
tough on her. So she she like works at a
hospital now for in the ob like with new moms
and stuff.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
Well at least it's like match to what she was
able to help you with. But yeah, it did help.
Although I mean I I was still like maybe we
did like maybe five sessions, and I was kind of like,
what's the point of this? But I was starting to
see the point of it, and she was like starting
to help me, like just unpack some things or keep
promises to myself stuff like that. Like she's like, you
know what, get your daily get your monthly manicure, right,

(16:16):
even if you go during lunch at work, go out,
get your manicure, get your pedicure, like little stuff like that.
That was helping me. But now she's going, I have
to find a new one.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
Maybe she can refer you.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
Yeah, that's just when you start to tell they start
to know all the characters in the plot, you know,
they remember names, and I gotta tell.

Speaker 3 (16:34):
You all the details. And she got it because she
was also Jamaican American, which I think for me was
a very important cultural, you know, intersection to have, like
someone who really understood like the nuances of just being
a Jamaican American and dealing with parents and dealing you know,
all that stuff. But yeah, I need to find another

(16:55):
one that's on me. But I did. I did take
that takeaway, take it that serious, proud of you.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
That's really good. I wonder, Mandy, I don't have the
experience of depression, And thank you for sharing your experience.
And you know, I think we're here for you if
you need us and when it feels right, you know,
please let us know how we can support you. But
I have like some chronic health issues. They mostly affect

(17:26):
my back, and then you know, if your back ain't right,
then you're not sleeping right. And then it's just as
this big spiral of like, well, you didn't sleep, and
then you have to wake up and get the kids
ready for school, and then you know, I'm still corporate
nine to five, so then you're pushing through. And so
I have this feeling a lot where I'm like, I'm
just surviving every day. I'm just like, I'm not thriving.

(17:48):
I'm just making it barely to eight o'clock the next night,
you know, where I can put the kids down and
then maybe put myself down. But I am thankful because
I in those hearts moments, or when I'm in a
flare up, or i have, you know, some really tough
times where I'm just exhausted in my body aches, I
can lean on Brandon and I can tell him, hey,

(18:12):
I you know, I need you to go ninety five
today because I've barely got five percent in me. And
so he's a wonderful partner in that way, and it
always makes me really grateful that I have him as
a support to, you know, do all the things that
need to be done with the kids, Like he's completely
fully capable of, you know, doing Aston's hair or taking

(18:34):
her to her therapy sessions or you know, whatever it
might be. And it at the same time makes me
like feel so so sad when I think about the
women who don't have the support, Because even if you're
completely healthy, even if you're not battling any kind of
mental health struggles, being a mom is so hard, right,

(18:59):
Like thinking about just the schedules. Oh, now we're coming
into fall. We have to change all the clothing sizes,
nothing fits. They have no warm clothes. What about you know,
volunteering at school, and now there's the book fair and
I've got to put money on their book fair account.
I mean, it's just like never ending. So even if
you're thriving otherwise, like the tasks of motherhood can feel

(19:20):
so overwhelming that I don't know how people do it
without a partner and I'm just so grateful for mine.
And I just want to like give a big hug
to all the moms who are doing it alone because
I don't, I literally don't know how you're doing it.
So shout out to the single moms.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
Or with partners who are not.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
Oh, don't even get me started where you're like a
married single mom.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
Yeah, yeah, that's even worse. I feel like too, rite
like imagine, I hear, I hear. I know this one,
this one person who was purposely single momming. I think
she went through fertility. So she like, you got a
sprim dover. She said, like her and her group of
friends are like a group of single moms who all
went fertility and they did this intentional single mothering, which

(20:03):
I kind of wonder of the effects later down the line.
But she was just like, it seemed more stressful to
have a man who wasn't going to be there than
to have one, you know, then to yeah, that's a
whole nother story, but yeah, it is only if.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
You're expecting I don't need a whole another adult.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
In my house.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, if you're not contributing, okay.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yeah, I mean I think that you expect. The pain
of that is like you have an expectation for what
it will be like and then and and what partnership
looks like, and then if it's not living up to
that expectation or what you need, and then you're like,
but I have this baby now, and you know, it's

(20:43):
like such an impossible situation because there's there's not really
like a right or wrong move to make at that point.
Either you know, your partner does what it takes to
step up to offer that support, which can take it
the long time to work on that, or you know,
you make a move. And you know my former financial planner,

(21:06):
I got a newsletter from her for the first time
and I don't know how long, and it was it
really sent me to my knees, like my jaw was
on the on the floor because she revealed that like
for the past five years she's been like really depressed
and was having this whole crisis of I don't know,
like confidence and just like her her life was really

(21:29):
out of alignment with what she really wanted, and she
she stopped her she ended her financial planning practice, she
divorced her husband, and her whole life had totally changed.
And that is what it can look like sometimes. But
that journey to get to that decision when you have kids,

(21:49):
it's really hard. And I think about my own mother.
My mom divorced when I was ten from my dad.
She really was a single parent in a married relationship.
And I'm and she got rid of him. I'm still
stuck with him and his big head and his stubborn ways,
not wanting to listen to what does doctors say. But
you know, I always thought I always thought she was

(22:12):
so brave to do that, and I like worshiped her
for it. But I think when you're in that you
kind of you worry about what the kids are going
to think, and you know, should we keep it together
for them?

Speaker 2 (22:27):
But that.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
There's just no easy right answer. But I just yeah,
to your point, Jessica, at my heart is just aching
for any woman, whether you're doing it alone or you're
together and alone at the same time and trying to
be a mom, It is about just day to day survival,
one day at a time.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
The idea, yeah, yeah, that idea of survival is something
that I think it's something that a lot of moms
aren't talking about enough, is like, what are the ways
that you're feeling like you're just surviving? Right? I was
recently at there's this conference in New York last week
called Black Week, and it's like a week of like
different panels and stuff across different venues, and I was

(23:13):
on one with doctor Joey Therapy for Black Girls. Well
not on one, I was listening to one with doctor
Joy Therapy for Black Girls and Tiana Madison. She's a
former like track and field athlete, And I asked the
question like I had saw this quote on Instagram. I
don't know how real the quote was, but it was like,
you know, working moms have the highest cortisol rate of
all like people they say, like working moms like equal

(23:36):
to three full time jobs or whatever. So I was
just talking to them about like the ways at which
like we're ways that we can keep well across the board.
But I really thought about it though, guys, and I
feel like the idea of just admitting that you're struggling
is something that's so hard, especially for us moms. Of
just like if I show up in the workplace and

(23:58):
say like I'm struggl They're gonna be like, well, no
one told you to have kids, And I'm like, but
no one told me to. You know, It's this whole
there's this never ending cycle of you want us to
speak up. When we speak up, we're not taking seriously.
So is it better to just not say anything and
just persevere? And I think a lot of us are
just keeping it in, But at what's sake? Right, and

(24:22):
the biggest thing I'm dealing with guys, And I'll say
it because I think it's public knowledge, Like my nine
to five company is now moving five days in office?

Speaker 2 (24:31):
No, absolutely not unsubscribed.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
In January and layoffs.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
Well they do exactly.

Speaker 3 (24:43):
I won't talk about there's been like stuff that's been
happening in the background. But the thing that a lot
of the moms, we've all been whispering to each other,
were like the ones who haven't, you know, taken the
severance package. We're all like, what the right? But no
and saying anything too loud because a we all still
need our jobs, right and who do we really like?

(25:05):
Who really has our back? And when you feel like
there's no one who has your back, you just kind
of keep it in. And I'm really worried about a
lot of the moms come January, who are going to
now like it's been five years, since almost six years
since COVID, Why are companies now going backwards?

Speaker 2 (25:27):
Especially if the profit Like what do the numbers say?
If the numbers say we're okay, we're doing well, we're
maintaining or doing better than before, why Because when you
say five days back in office, I hear minimum ten
hours of commute time. That's what I hear. I hear

(25:47):
and I physically see, like sitting in traffic, wasting time.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Paying twenty bucks an hour for childcare.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
Oh, that makes me so angry that guys is probably
I am.

Speaker 3 (26:01):
I'm after here and like my kids have never known
a world. Also me as a mother, I've always been
a mother where first it was fully remote, then it
was hybrid. Two days, okay, three days pushing it, but
I can do it. But the five days is just
something now where I'm just like, is it fair to them?
Like I'm really nervous for how they're going to feel

(26:22):
because they've only known me as a mother, like you know,
showing up for them after school and having that flexibility.
But it's also tough to kind of think about like
a finding something new like that's another stress, right or
going into my own thing full time, that's another stress.
It's really tough. And these are the things that work constantly.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
Did you start did you start remote or did you
started remote and then they started trickling it in.

Speaker 3 (26:49):
Yeah, I started remote because I was hired during the pandemic,
so everybody was remote, and then they everyone returned to
office and then now everybody's the mandate of everybody's here.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
Know why it's happening because too many dicks are still
running shit. Men are still the top of the totem
pole and the top of the pyramid at these places,
and as long as men are in power, these policies
will continue. Like they're chuckling and they're like, yeah, it's
great to have us back in the office. This is great.
We can all handle it. I mean, there's just.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah because their wives are at home, cooking, cleaning, folding
all the laundry, doing all the grocery shopping.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
And they can afford or they can afford the help,
you know, to make it happen. If you're going to
ask people, like if you're going to ask your workers
to come in five days a week, then and this
is just like I don't think I can think of
a company who does this, but it has to be
like a family first company. Provide benefits and resources so
that your people.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
Have a daycare in office, so I can bring my
two year old.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
You know, yes, you have a daycare, have an aftercare program,
bust the kids in from wherever the you know, wherever
they get in from school, provide a meal, dinner time time,
stories of entertainment, give a bounce house.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
And preferably a meal I can take home to my
family too. Let's be serious, like, oh, is there a
grabbing go station?

Speaker 3 (28:09):
Thank you?

Speaker 2 (28:10):
Grab this on my way my family. I know we're
giving you a free Hello fresh or that I don't
I still cooking exactly.

Speaker 3 (28:22):
But I've been grappling with and I don't know if
you guys feel like this. Do you ever feel like
you shouldn't complain in this sense of like you have
it good and other people have it worse. Like there
are people who have like Joss, where they have to
go in Like I mean, let's say you're a nurse,
like you have to work in the office, unless you're
like a virtual nurse whatever that is, right, Like, there

(28:44):
are some career paths that you have to be in
the office. And I'm like, oh, there are women who
don't have a choice. So is me complaining about this?
Like am I just you know? But I have to
tell myself no, Like this is not the career path
that you choose. Chose because you want flexibility or you
know that you don't want to be a mom that
shows up only for an hour before bedtime and that's okay.

(29:06):
So I've been having to like affirm to myself that
your desires are validated or valid you deserve to be
able to be the mom that you want to be
and how you want it at that to look. And
I've had to kind of like tell myself that because
there's been this voice in my head like, Ranna, just
do whatever you gotta do. But at the same time,

(29:27):
I'm like, but why I don't want to have to
just say yes.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
To say yes, yes, I think you answered your own question.

Speaker 3 (29:34):
But now is the actual figuring it out. It's the
figuring out that, my god, that's just another thing to
do and finding the energy or on top of grieving,
or on top of just trying to make sure my
five year old doesn't kill my two year old, and
two year old doesn't kill a five year old, you
know what I mean. It's just a lot. It's just
a lot. How did people do this in the past?

Speaker 1 (29:57):
They had more kids, lived in the village school, you know,
and a little.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
Yeah, it was different, the community was different. I think
we talked about this the first time.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
We did talk about community last time, and like and
I and I have done my best. I think I have.
I have my close mom friends and was as great
as like it is to to call y'all friends as well.
We're not able to help each other really.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
Yeah, not physically?

Speaker 1 (30:23):
Yeah, what can we do for each other other than
you know?

Speaker 3 (30:26):
And is the most important part of.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
It exactly can you hold a baby? Can you can
you pick up? Like if you had a flare up
and I was in your neighborhood, I'd bring you soup
like I do my friends and like you do you
do you need those like physical, closely close friendships. But
at the same time, I'm what I'm realizing is that
like having a baby during the pandemic during that cold

(30:51):
winter of twenty twenty, and also like getting slammed with
postparum depression and like a bunch of challenges boom, I
haven't healed, like I haven't really dealt with. The doctor Judith,
who wrote the book High Functioning Depression, calls it lower
t trauma, lowercase TA trauma. I haven't really fully healed

(31:12):
from that lowercase tea trauma. And I think that feeling
of being alone and on my own and no one
really there because at the time that I was so
deeply isolated. I'm sure y'all can relate. I don't want
to feel that way anymore, and I'm feeling that way,
but I don't. It's actually like artificial. It's like depression

(31:32):
is a liar, and I've been thinking of ways to
fix that. Even though I have like my neighbors and
I have friends who are mothers, and there's nothing like
I have a living mother. I'm so blessed to say that.
And I have a sister who adores my kids and
a brother who adores my kids and me, and none
of us lives in the same place. And I did

(31:53):
make a I made a personal decision that hasn't become
reality yet because it's hard to do. But I'm ready
to move close to my mom again. And my mom
and my sister are both moving back to Georgia. They've
been in the Midwest. And my brother already is in
Georgia and are from Georgia. Yeah, I'm from Georgia. I've

(32:16):
lived in New York since twenty ten.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
I'm hearing family compound.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yes, family comn family.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
The way go past the garden and go to Grandma's house.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
You know, Like, so that's what we're trying to do.
It's been it's not easy because my husband has work here,
but like it's becoming like an emergency for me, Like
I actually don't want this life anymore. Like I don't
like to your point about surviving or thriving. I'm just

(32:48):
surviving every day now, But I think I could be
thriving if I was closer to like that and just
taking full advantage of, like I said, having a living mother,
and you know these siblings who want to help but
they can't because are not here.

Speaker 3 (33:04):
The mother needs mothering. Who mother is the mother?

Speaker 1 (33:09):
Hey ba, fam, We got to take a quick break,
pay some bills, and we'll be right back.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
We have both moms here in town. One is like
ten minutes up the road and my mom's about thirty
minutes away. And even just being able to drop the
kids off on a Saturday or Sunday for a few
hours is a game changer. And most of the time
Brandon and I we want to be better about this.
I'm like, oh, we could do a lunch date. Like
it doesn't always have to be a dinner date, you know,

(33:38):
Like I was just talking to it that I.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
Was like, we could go to we can go to
Chipotle and leave.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yeah, you have to go grocery shopping together and then
go to Chipotle, like, or get a capable like, it
doesn't have to be something. Who stand drive? You know,
you are getting an iced coffee and driving around like glamorous,
huge out in the back seat. Neighborhoods, girl, and nobody
get time for that. We want to look at mansions,
you know. But it makes a difference. I mean, most
of the time we are just doing errands. Right, he's

(34:05):
editing the podcast, I'm doing laundry, we're doing yard work.

Speaker 3 (34:09):
Like.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
We utilize the time to do things that are easier
to do when the kids aren't around. But even just
not having somebody say Mama, Mama, Mama, mama every two
point five seconds for a couple of hours, it's again, kids,
Jessica again, six and seven just turned six and then

(34:30):
I guess seven and a half technically, yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
Oh bam with the six and seven.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
I know, well we had two under two in the
pandemic and talk about surviving, not thriving, and still not
taking care of pastor. I'm still together, girl, I know,
it's amazing. I did throw a cheerio him once. That's
only in twelve years that I've ever done anything like that.

(34:55):
And yeah, I just I lost it and I threw
a cereal box at him and he still loves me.
So here we are.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
My our casualty. Yours was a cheerio box. We had
a casualty or Google our Google home became a casualty.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
You can do it across the room.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
No, I didn't. Husband cracked. He cracked.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
We're going to put that time into its own special
box and it's just going to live there and we
don't need to revisit it because.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Times rio is like remember the Google Home. I'm Michael about.

Speaker 3 (35:31):
What are some things that you guys, I know, despite
you know, navigating this depression closet, Mandy, Jessica, all of
us just trying to figure it out, Like, what are
some things that you've been able to find joy in
despite even if their little pockets of joy, pockets of reprieve,
things that have reminded you about who you are.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
I was literally thinking about this on the way to
daycare drop off this morning, was how can I incorporate
some joy because one of the lies that depression tells
me is that I'm not allowed to like take to
do something fun or frivolous, while there's so much to
do and while I have so much to fix in
myself that I can't do those things until I'm like

(36:17):
in a better place. And so this morning I was
actively thinking against that, and I was like, what is
something I can do that would spark a little bit
of joy that doesn't involve the crutch of my kids,
Because the problem with my children is there's such little
joy nuggets that if I'm around them and like we

(36:39):
can go to Legoland, I can take them to a
trampoline park, I can go to the library, like I
can find little activities that can but we're they're having
We're there joyful, and then that makes me feel joyful.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (36:53):
But are you finding true joy or are you just
finding joy through them? Because again, you're a great mom.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
No, that's what I'm saying. So that's I've been.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
It's not your true joy.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
Not my true joy. And when I'm like really, I'm
in like a really heightened depressive state, and my husband
will take the kids off somewhere to give me some space,
then I'm like, wait, I need my oxygen back, like
I need I don't like it, so I don't really
have a good answer. I think where I think, I

(37:24):
don't know what brings joy.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
You definitely need to find that. But I also it
makes me think, like my mom definitely undiagnosed, untreated, I
would say, anxiety and depression. And so my run now
that my parents they've been divorced, but my parents divorced
after thirty five years of marriage, and like my brother
and myself and now the grandkids are her entire world.

(37:50):
And that's a pressure too that I think is very
dangerous because she finds her joy in us, which is
and he doesn't live year but I do. So then
who gets the guilt and the smothering the pressure of life?

Speaker 1 (38:06):
I don't want. I'm so aware of that.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
Yeah, so I'm thinking of like your future life when
the boys are you know, late high school, early college,
heaven forbid they get married. Then it's like, if that's
your oxygen.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
I am not going to be that mom, hail to
the now.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
Well, but you probably have to work on that now.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Right, there's things, you know, there's this expression there's this
symptom of depression, or maybe it's not a symptom of depression,
but it often comes in line with depression called on
Hondonia and Hondonia, which is the the challenge of like,
you don't feel things, like you don't feel the joy
or the positivity. Things that once brought you joy, You're

(38:47):
not deriving pleasure from them. So I found so much
joy and comfort in gardening this summer.

Speaker 3 (38:54):
And I saw that on social media US she can
hit tomatoes.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
Wasn't there a watermelon? Am I making that up?

Speaker 1 (39:02):
One singular watermelon? Yes? And cute and it tastes great.
But we grew it there. The kids ate it in solidarity.
I did find a lot of joy from gardening, but
then that the depression, I just it started to fade.
I don't feel it quite as much. And cooking and baking,

(39:25):
you know, I haven't been cooking at all. And one thing,
you know that there is that expression I've been thinking
about too, which is to feel different, you have to
act different. Sometimes the action is first and then the
feelings follow. And one thing I did I went to
the grocery store this weekend and I got I made.

(39:46):
I decided to do like a big Sunday roast like
the brit and the Brits do it. And I spent
like three hours in the kitchen cooking and making a
meal and just for the pl and I was feeling.
I felt, I felt a little something, and.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
Keep doing it gas or something where you can like
learn a new skill or be in community with other
people who were like my class. Yeah, I just got
a present for a friend of mine. Again, like you know,
we have what we need, and so I was like,
let's do an experience. And so I got us a
pasta making class. And so we're going to do like

(40:25):
the Italian feast pasta making with like ravioli and Alfredo's
and all the sauces and then you like actually sit
and eat what you've cooked. And it's a little local,
veteran woman owned business in Durham, North Carolina. And I'm
so excited because I think it'll be so fun and
we're learning a skill that, you know, if we wanted
to make pasta at home later hopefully we'll learn it

(40:48):
well enough to do that. But maybe something like that.
Doing that with a friend, Yes, with two friends. One
it was one birthday present and then we it's kind
of our little foodie group. So it's going to be
the three of us next month.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
Doing an activity with friends is something that I have
withdrawn from, like in the depression, like I pulled back,
but I actually crave it, Like I haven't had like
a dinner or drinks with girlfriends in ages.

Speaker 3 (41:16):
So combine it. Maybe you can do if you want
to experience the joy of cooking, could you invite someone
over for dinner, Like, Hey, next Sunday, I'm going to
make something and let's eat it and then tell your
husband to take the kids.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
Yeah, like a little dinner club like tiny, Like doesn't
need to be this big thing because then it becomes exhausting.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
It's already exhausting just thinking about it. But I think
going out to dinner and just having a nice I
would like to just have a really nice cocktail with
a friend with no kids around. It's hard to if it's.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
Hard for scheduling, could you do it during the day.
I'm like, maybe a lunch date with a friend if
that's easier, because I know we're like scheduling at night.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
Especially midweek. I know because these two friends that I'm
doing the cooking class with they are married but don't
have kids by choice, and the rule is you always
have to invite me. But most of the time I'm
not going to be able to come. So even last
night the text came through of like, hey, we're meeting
you know here at this time, let us know if
you can make it. And it's just it's so hard

(42:15):
because then you have the guilt of like, uh, the
midweek is chaos and we just came back from to
school from track out and then to leave the kids
with you know, it's just I don't know, but yeah,
it make it happen.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
I had some weird combination of like, I have friends
who don't have kids, but they're they're in the city,
and so that's the challenge. But also I'm also I'm
like one of the only work from home moms in
my mom group. They're all busy and they work and
they commute, and so sometimes I'm just like I would
love to do like a midday thing, but it's not

(42:49):
a lot of yeah, people have, but there can be time.
My depression was really bad this weekend, and my my
dear friends, she has a big important job, she has
to go into the city. So there's whenever we get together,
it's like rare. It's like once a month, which is
actually decent.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
That's pretty good. Actually, I would.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
Say yeah, honestly, and she we really both put in
the effort and I I canceled plan. She had invited
me over, and I just I made it. I said
I was sick, but it's not that bad all the time.
But it was a bummer that in that I was
just so and you know, and I could have probably
told her how I was feeling and she would have said,

(43:31):
we'll come over anyway, But depression is a liar, and
it just told me I was too toxic and too
too negative to be around anybody in that in that time. Meanwhile,
I did send my son over because her son and
my son are best friends.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
So now there you go.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
You had a good time. But that is definitely something
I could be adding back into my life. What brings
you all joy?

Speaker 2 (43:57):
Yeah, for me, it's always try so Raina. When you
were saying like, how are you finding like the micro joy,
I'm not going to say that I don't find joy
in the small doses because I try to be really
intentional about that and like practice gratitude and you know,
mindfully say like here are five things today that I'm

(44:19):
grateful for. Even if I woke up in a mood
or if my body's hurting or whatever it might be.
But I really love looking forward to a vacation. And
so again, because we have four sets of grandparents, we
are able to travel with the children and without them.
And so like next month, Brandon and I are going

(44:41):
to Saint Lucia. It was supposed to be my fortieth
birthday trip from the spring, but because Brandon tores Achilles,
we had to push it. And so I've been waiting
for this trip for like months and months, and then
I looked up and I was like, oh my gosh,
it's next month. Like I'm so happy to get at
a couple of nights away where I don't have to

(45:03):
do anything. I don't have to lift a finger, I
don't have to make a bed, I don't have to
empty the dishwasher every morning at seven am. I don't
need to, you know, run the vacuum cleaner after every
meal because the kids don't know how to eat over
their dang plates, like.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
So deciding what to eat everything so many times another meal,
I have to.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
Decide it's either that or My son is like he's
like literally addicted to goldfish at this point, Like he
like will have a full on hantrum breakdown if I
deny him goldfish and I'm like, great, he's an addict, Okay,
here we are.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
You're made to be addicting, I know, and he literally
is and it so I'm so excited for you. I
haven't had a vacation. My husband and I took a
vacation in August together. It was a marriage resuscitation week
because girl we was on life support and it was
so needed. But in order to accomplish that, I had
to fly my children to Saint Louis, fly back the

(46:06):
same day, and then do it again two weeks later.
And it was so expensive. And but when we were
in when we were in, yes, but we can't recreate
it easily. But when we're in a family compound, I
look forward to that day.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
What if I mean, even aside from the family compound,
like we have a friend, they will fly the mom in.
They're in North Carolina, they fly the mom in from Tennessee,
so they cover her flight or do it with points
or miles or however they can get it done. But
that way, you're not taking I mean, who wants to
be at an airport twice in one day to like
drop your kids off and then you know, is there

(46:49):
anything that you could do like that, like if you
flew your brother in or your sister in and then
they stay with you. Because I also find that the
kids do better if they're in their beds, they have
their toys, they have their environment. And then also we
typically travel during the week so that the kids are
in school when possible, So then that way it kind

(47:11):
of alleviates some of the burden on the grandparents because
being with the kids kind of twenty four to seven
is a lot. But if they're going to school for
a big chunk of the day, then as long as
they get them out on time, do their lunches, and
then they can do the nighttime routine. But they get
a nice, you know, seven eight hour break during the day.
I think it really helps them because again, of course

(47:32):
our parents are My parents are mid sixties, late mid
and late sixties, so giving them a little bit of
a break during the day really helps them. But that's
kind of how we've been able to travel and make
it work and have people come stay with us and
our kids.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
Yeah, that's a good idea. Unfortunately, it hasn't been able
to work out as someone's either got a health issue
or they have a partner, like there's there's just complicating factors.
So them coming here, it's always it's rarely like an
easy an easy thing, and like it's more comfortable for

(48:11):
them to be in their space and like, fortunately my
boys have a really good time when they're like at
my mom's. But then to justify it, you do have
to make it a long trip. And so it's like
two weeks and that that's bored us too much. For me,
I had to miss them, miss them babies.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
But it's good to miss them.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
It's good to get addicting. You're like when you want
to be away from them, and then when you're away
for them too long, you like start to itch.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
Like healthy because usually at the end of our vacations
we're like, oh, we're ready to see the kids, and
then within you know, three hours of being with them,
were like, yeah, I'm going to be back on vacation.
But I think it's healthy to miss them too.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
It was worth it for us though, for the for us,
for our relationship, it was it was so needed to
look at some things we had been neglecting.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
Yeah, that's so good.

Speaker 3 (49:02):
Yeah. We did a mini trip with the kids. But
we haven't done like my family. We haven't met my partner.
We haven't really done as much like solo traveling. We
went to a wedding once that was like a two
night thing, which was fun. That's when my dad was alive,
my dad life before my dad was here, life after right, Uh,
it was easier and it's like just a it was

(49:25):
a nice I feel like two days, a nice weekend away.
It's like a nice recharge for me. The things that
have found brought me joy. I've been dancing again. I
used to be like a really big dancer, like in college.
I danced before the babies. Actually, the reason why I
have my son is because I went to a heels
dance class and after the he'll dance class, I was like,

(49:46):
let me try these moves.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
Oops, I don't know advertising they were going for.

Speaker 3 (49:56):
Beware, I've found I haven't been able to get to
a dance class, but just turning on music. Like the
other day, I just had a dance party in the
living room and my kids were looking at me like
I was crazy, But then they started dancing with me,
like I was still dancing by myself. But it was
just fun to kind of just like get moving. I
think for me, movement has brought me joy. I used

(50:18):
to be a really big mover, Like I used to run,
I used to do so much, and I just feel
like that movement part of me hasn't been prioritized because
it's always like I don't want to go on a
walk with the kids all the time, right, But like,
at the same time, bring them out the house or
getting them to the park or you know, pushing the
stroller around the lake is good for them. So I

(50:39):
think that I can kind of get them, you know,
kill two birds with one stone. But at the same time,
it's not the same you're It's like it's not the
same walk. So I've been trying to like maybe the
next step is after work or before I go home,
take a dance class in the city or something like that,
Like that might be a way to alleviate or to

(51:01):
bring more joy. Cooking has been a big one for me,
And I was going to talk about the act of
like mirror neurons. Maybe I've heard of the idea of
mirror neurons of like when you see someone doing something
that you desire, you can kind of have that feeling
yourself it's kind of how social media works. Like it's
like the dopamine hit that you get when you see
someone like going on a trip, Like why don't we
watch these shows because we kind of sickly desire that life?

(51:25):
In some way, I've been doing that with cooking videos.
I'll wasch chefs like just cooking, and it brings me
this joy where I feel like I'm the chef cooking myself.
So I don't know, maybe that could be a way
of tricking my body into more joy, but it's been
inspiring to me to just like watch these videos and
in my head I'll try to recreate it, like I

(51:45):
make everything a scene. My friend told me I have
a friend who she should be clinically depressed by just
her life, right, but she gave me this hint. She
was just like, I'm delusional. I just tell my self
delusional shit. That's probably not true, but just the act
of like saying it out loud, like I'm living a grand,

(52:08):
fabulous life. I have a huge kitchen, I'm making all
these things. It might sound like a creative, fanciful thinking,
but for her, it's just like faking the joy a bit,
or speaking the joy into things. That might see mundane sense.
Even the commute, well, the commute into work is so boring.

(52:29):
But what I like to do is all people watch
and I'll write it down what I see, or like
I'll overhear conversations and I'll just write it down and
I'll use it as a creative prompt for my writing.
I'm like, all right, I heard this person gossiping about this,
Like there was this one lady who was talking about
talking to her nanny about how her barbecue chicken better
be done when she's home. And I'm like, oh, that
could be a cute. Like I start to a movie,

(52:52):
like I'll just write what all my stuff as inspiration,
I try to find the joy around me when I
can't find the joy in me. Sometimes be a good quote.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
That is a good quote. But you know they say
that your brain doesn't actually know the difference between like reality,
like truth and lies. So like you do need to
lie to yourself. You do need to say.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
I believe in a lot of negative shit. That's depression. Yeah,
I just choose to believe.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
You need to change that and exactly and and lie
to yourself and we do a lot of that. Yeah,
it's like.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
This but it creates like a bullet proof screen in
front of me people's positivity. It just can't. It's hard
to get it in. Like it's like trying to get
to the center and.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
You know, leave everybody else's positivity. But just like lie
to yourself positively, like start start talking to yourself about
is the salulu. Yeah, like you're any family compound that's
going to be incredible and like the garden in the
middle that everybody's going to be participating in and you're
going to completely live off of the land and grow

(53:58):
your watermelons.

Speaker 3 (54:00):
You know. I'm going to a mood board, Mandy. Can
you do like a mood board that you have in
your office space where you're like starting to plant it out,
like you know, put a little garden on the side
on one side. Yeah, psychologist, I don't know all this
will work.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
But visualize it. No, it certainly can't hurt. I think
we should set some goals before we because I think
we should do this call again, maybe not another six months,
but sooner. And well, let's not put any pressure on
it because y'all know we Mom, she's you know too much.
But I don't want to be committing. But I think

(54:41):
if I was going to set a goal, my goal
would be don't be depressed anymore. But that's not realistic.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
Okay, that's too much pressure.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
My goal is to do a thing that find my
find something that brings me joy, that can get through
the bulletproof depression glass and and can bring me some joy.
And I think your cooking class idea might be a
good one. But even if it's like a cocktail with
a friend or just baking something ridiculously intricate because I

(55:14):
like take off. I always wanted to I make like
a character cake for my kids birthdays, but I just
I could just do one for the heck of it.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
Oh my god, they would love it. Yeah, you know that, right,
shred the carrots, Mandy, shred the carrots. Yeah, no, this
is for you.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
It's not Remember a weekly joy. Daily sounds like too much,
isn't that sad? Daily joy is too much? Maybe once
a week, but try to find my joy activity.

Speaker 3 (55:48):
I was going to say something X rated, but I
think we have I'll tell it to you after after that.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
Oh, now I want to know what please does is it?
Does it involve the heels?

Speaker 3 (56:02):
It could evolve here? Pregnant you might get a dopamine
fix in another way, maybe a self dopamine fix, you know,
put that into your masturbate more. Get yes, get some toys.
You know what's funny. I never told anyone this. So
if you're listening to this and you listen to my podcast,

(56:24):
this is gonna sound so weird. Guys to advertise that go,
I used to like if I had a bad day
at work, because before when I used to like early
in the podcast days, I used to only record afterwork,
which is like seven eight. Now that I'm thinking about it,
I don't know how I got people to record with
me seven and eight o'clock. Anyway, that was a different time.

(56:44):
I used to like sometimes masturbate before interview, just to
get like a little like I'm thebombed diggity dot com.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
Before it sounds healthy, it sounds cocaine.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
Oh my gosh, I.

Speaker 3 (56:56):
Mean that was my bump. That was my little like
little like pocket a vibrator, And I'd like, all right, now.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
You're really good to go.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
Oh my gosh, that's kind of jealous that you could
just like turn it on like that. I need to buy.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
I love that people are like I do a five
minute Superman stance before and you're like, I'm going to
take a different the.

Speaker 3 (57:22):
Good now I'm ready. That's I mean, maybe like finally
little like fake a fake cocaine moment for you that can.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
Oh, you're right, well, I do have a box of
gummies that's just for mommy, obviously, and I have found
that to be like if I'm really struggling things already,
I'll take a little a little gummy.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
But those make my heart palpitate so much I can't
do it anymore.

Speaker 3 (57:44):
I've never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever ever ever gonna
try edibles again.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
Experience. Yeah, not great for me either, Not great for.

Speaker 3 (57:53):
I had a twenty four hour I can't get out
of my mind experience because I had an event and
someone gets gave me a cake pop and they told
me to eat it in nipples. It was not nipples
and nibbles.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
Like a sponsor.

Speaker 3 (58:09):
It was a sponsor and like she she provided like
the people at my event, like you know edible like
it was like cookies and cake pops. I didn't know
that meant you take a little portion of the cake pop.
I ate the whole.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
Weird thing to expect someone to portion out like how nibbles,
slice a.

Speaker 3 (58:27):
Cake, nibbled.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
I ate it, and.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
I ate it really slowly.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
Just put it in your pocket, just get a little
nibble everything.

Speaker 3 (58:35):
I didn't know that, and I'm just like, have that.
Life is not meant for me. It scared me. I
said never again. I felt like, I'm like, is this
how crackheads become crackheads? And they're trying to convince people
they're normal. Like in my mind, I was like, this
is not prepared, No, no, no.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
You have to do a reputable, reputable, you know, brand
that's not a homegrown no no, yes, and food that
people bake with butter, none of that. Like we need
like very well portioned, like and you're right to your point,
like you have to be you should be careful and
like it's definitely not It took me a while to
find something that actually could take the edge off a

(59:12):
little bit. But now that I've found it, and uh,
it's like a Filipina owned woman, she's Filipina, she makes
them herself. They're so delicious. And then there's some that
don't have THHD, they just have CBD, and there's some
that have a combination of both. And it's like you
can like you have to know how many milligrams you
can take or what is it? Mcg's what does that

(59:33):
stand for? Yeah, micrograms, the dosing and all that. Anyway,
have you.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
Ever done the drinks?

Speaker 1 (59:40):
I have not tried to drink yet. I yeah, no,
I haven't.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
I'm gonna have to get my brother to send you.
He like partners with this company. It's a friend of
his owns the company and he has multiple CBD type
stores and dispensaries and stuff. And it's I don't know
if it's it's got THHC, but it's a that's like
happy and so it's meant to be a social drink

(01:00:05):
and it's called nine Dot. I'll send you the link
and people love it. Again, it's not my thing because
I just don't like that feeling. But it's supposed to
like make you just super giddy and happy and like
you know, not like femo out.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
Yeah, it's that. The whole conversation is like a good
one to have. Like again, you know where we can
do it more in depth because I have I don't
want to become reliant on anything, and I don't want
to like mask, I'd rather I want to work on healings,
I can like mask, not in a massive fix heel.
So I'm not ressed, right, moved like actually moved through

(01:00:44):
it rather than trying to numb through it like during
like really acute moments if I can't sleep or if
it's like really really intense a gummy once a week
or once every other week whenever, you know. But yeah,
I don't want to be because I'm so like the
depression is like more rampant now. I'm just a little
weary of like adding something. Yeah, I want to like

(01:01:07):
see my therapist and and you know, I'm also in
a weight loss program. I'm getting a sea pop machine
because girls got sleep apnea, Like oh yeah, all these.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
Because you tell you alls apart, that's just the reality.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
What's that?

Speaker 3 (01:01:24):
Yeah? I was gonna say, Mandy, can I tell you something?
And it is you are doing it like you give
yourself a hug, like you know, like you so much hard.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
Mama is doing everything, elkit, babe, every single one I'm trying.

Speaker 3 (01:01:44):
That's so like courageous of you, and that's so commendable
and like it's it's going to work out for you,
Like this is you know how I know? I don't
I don't know when I don't like to like say
cliche things, but like you know, there's that say like
this too shell pass And I think because you are
doing the work for it to pass, like it's going

(01:02:06):
there is going to be light at the end of
the tunnel. So I'm giving you a virtual hug because
I just want to I can hug you, give you
a hug, and someone listening in right now, who may
be feeling like you, may be may be able to, like,
you know, to understand what one of us is going
through as well, Like this is the work. Just talking

(01:02:26):
about it is the biggest thing, and so many people
aren't talking about it. So just by allowing us to
have this conversation today, you're not only helping yourself, but
you're helping you know, whoever's listening to this as well.

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
Yeah, you're helping people not feel alone and what they're
battling with, which is so important, especially when things in
today's world feel so isolating.

Speaker 3 (01:02:49):
So yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's the biggest And they
say motherhood is like the biggest the biggest party that
you feel the most alone at, right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
Well, it's hard to go along with you, ladies, and
thank you for your fundability to and Jessica, and you know,
whether it's like a chronic like physical pain. I mean,
that is so real. And when it's messing anything that's
messing with your sleep, girl, like we know it all
can mess with your sleep.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
And then everything about a twenty mattress because I was like,
I got to do something. I'm already doing all the
other things, all the physical therapy and all the injections,
all the I'm like, all right, let's change the mattress.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
But yeah, I hope it works, just anything. And I
send that love right back to you all too, Rena.
Whatever you decide about that damn job in this commute,
in that five days a week, I'll be thinking about you.
But I hope you are some more dancing. Yeah yeah,
maybe that can ease it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
But I will not end up pregnant again.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
Okay, guys, very my deepest depression. Sometimes I think, could
I have another baby and feel better?

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
Oh no, A liar, get you and I U d
while you still can listen.

Speaker 3 (01:04:04):
One of those, because I will say, although we say
children shouldn't bring us joy, it shouldn't be the only
thing that brings us joy. I am so happy. I
have them, because imagine if you didn't. I sometimes think about, like,
I know that I use them for you know, that
little joy spike that you need sometimes. But if I
didn't have them, damn, this ship would probably be even tougher.

(01:04:26):
Like I don't agree with that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
I don't agree with that, No, okay, but okay, I
just say that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
If you didn't have them, you'd probably be very happy,
as you'd be very well rested, your bank account would
be I wouldn't have a black circles under my eyes
that I literally cannot get rid of.

Speaker 3 (01:04:45):
Yeah, but you know what, for the sake of society,
we mothers still need to We still need people to
want to be mothers, so that you know, you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
Can't go there, you can't go to the what if
they weren't here? I know, I know that's just you
can't take that that Pandora's box has been open.

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
I'm happy that they're here because they they do provide
me a at least for the life I'm in now,
something to motivate me, even if I am using them,
as you know, probably shouldn't always use them as joy crutches.

Speaker 1 (01:05:10):
But I'm gonna take pole like you're giving, like there's
there's that you know that the truth is when you
give and you're you're doing something that's outside of yourself,
Like it feels good to be the giver. And as
long as you're giving and receiving and it's reciprocal, then
I don't think it's toxic. And you you know, feel

(01:05:31):
that humans and absorbed.

Speaker 3 (01:05:35):
My son said something to me the other day. Oh sorry,
my son said something to me the other day, and
I'm like, whoa, this is so weird. So like I
always say to him, I know my son, right, Like
if I know that he's doing something he shouldn't, I
be like, axel, I know my son. And so I
was telling him about how I really want to make
this recipe and he was like, Mom, you're just gonna
watch a YouTube video and how to do it. Then

(01:05:57):
he was like, I know, my mom got you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
That's so cute.

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
And so just those moments they just make you know,
they make it worth it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
Wait, so I have my goal? Did y'all want to
set a little personal goal before we reconvene in the future.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
I don't know that I have anything, not that I
don't have goals, but I feel like my goals are
they're more work related, you know, which is like not fun,
and I don't feel like that's the vibe of our conversation.
So I'm going to keep mind to myself today.

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
What about the I When does that get here?

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
Oh? I've been sleeping on it for maybe a month
a month and a half now, and I do notice
a difference, but it's hard to truly feel a difference
when you're just like in so much pain. But I
literally had an epidural shot in my spine this morning,
so hopefully steroid not a block, but hopefully it'll just

(01:07:00):
give me the relief that I'm looking for. The last
injections that I got did little to nothing, So that
was four hundred and eighty three dollars almost down the drain.
Today will be the three hundred and sixty three dollars
if those do anything, and then from there we'll have
to wait and see. But yeah, hopefully the next time
we have this conversation, I will be feeling more like

(01:07:20):
myself and feeling more rested and less in pain. That
is for sure the ultimate goal.

Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
I'm praying for that for you so wonderful vacation.

Speaker 3 (01:07:30):
Hoping that well, yes, yes, my goal would be. I
think it's also like returning to little moments that define
raina before kids, so like getting those weekly or you know,
monthly pedicures, dancing again. I booked a style consult with

(01:07:52):
this like professional styleist really today just because I feel
like visually I'm not showing up how I want to
show up as much anymore, and I'm just like I
just need to, Like, I think the bigger goal is
spend money on the things that bring you joy, because
I can be a cheap joy finder where there are
some things you just need to spend money on life.
You really want to work with a stylist, just pay

(01:08:15):
the money right now, Like, don't hold on to the
money just because you're trying to always save safe safe,
I know, you know, my financial girl tell me I
need to say to a budget I have and I.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
Value based spending.

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):
So I think that's the big thing for me, is
like don't be afraid to spend the money to make
life happier, easier, more joyful. Like some days I'm like,
we get in takeout today because that's it might cost
more for budget grotriy wise, but it just makes sense
for our peace of mind as a family. Right, And

(01:08:49):
they're not gonna eat it anyway, So why am I
sleeving over a meal that they're not eating.

Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
My husband and I get take out the kids. They're
not going to eat it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
And strap eat some fruit.

Speaker 3 (01:09:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:01):
Oh, I can't wait to see how you show up
on the next call right now in your new style.

Speaker 3 (01:09:06):
We'll see, we'll see. I didn't I said I booked it.
I didn't say I booked her. I booked the console.
But it's not it's not the actual session.

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
Speak for yourself. This is my BJS. No, this is
Cole's versus plaid little I'm from finest now. But to
that point, yeah, spending some time investing in yourself and
the way you look and present it matters, you know,
even if you got nowhere to go.

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
Thank y'all so much for letting me come out of
my depression closet and surprise you with that and.

Speaker 3 (01:09:41):
Hopefully, but we have a quart to action for the listeners, Mandy,
do you have a quo to action they chime in
or what they are doing, maybe that can be the
call to action for this episode, Like, moms, what are
you doing to you know? What's your goal? What's your
joy goal for this month or what's your joy goal
for the end of the year.

Speaker 1 (01:09:59):
I love that, Or what's your struggle if you just
want to share, like you, what's your what is it
that you're going through that maybe you don't feel like
you can really acknowledge because you're doing doing doing for
the kids and for the family. And just like Raina
you opening up about grieving your father's passing and Jessica
your chronic pain and my depression. Like we all, everyone's
got something that we are, like an inner life that's

(01:10:23):
not always the most positive, but maybe saying it out loud,
we can be that safe space for y'all. And of
course ba fam, you can always reach out to me
Brand Ambition Podcast at gmail dot com. But if you're
watching on YouTube, you can leave a comment, put your
business on the internet. Why not everyone else does it?
Or DMV at Brand Ambition Podcast on I T And

(01:10:44):
where can they find y'all? Sugar Daddy Podcast I think
on it right.

Speaker 2 (01:10:49):
Yep, Matt the Sugar Daddy Podcast. And we did just
get our blue check, So dismiss any of the other
ones please, they're not real.

Speaker 3 (01:10:57):
Verify you can find me Dreams and drive. But my
personal is rain r ai N shine, s h I
N E, l U V love. It's funny because that
has been This has been a model my entire life.
You always have rain in life, good times, you always
have bad times, rain right, good time, shine and love,
like think of those things. Those are three constants in

(01:11:19):
our life. So we accept that we're all going to
be going through cycles of life and it just makes
this journey a little bit better.

Speaker 1 (01:11:27):
I'm just gonna just accept that we're grumpy monkey and
that's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
I'm gonna find that book.

Speaker 1 (01:11:32):
Yes, thank you, it's so good. It's I love it
all right, y'all be well, ba fam until next time,
take care bye, okay v a fam. Thank you so
much for listening to this week's show. I want to
shout out to our production team, Courtney, our editor, Carla,
our fearless leader for idea to launch productions. I want

(01:11:55):
to shout out my assistant Lauda Escalante and Cameron McNair
for helping me put the show together. It is not
a one person project, as much as I have tried
to make it so these past ten years. I need
help y'all, and thank goodness, I've been able to put
this team around me to support me on this journey
and to y'all bea fam. I love you so, so,

(01:12:17):
so so much. Please rate, review, subscribe, make sure you
sign up to the newsletter to get all the latest
updates on upcoming episodes, our ten year anniversary celebrations to come,
and until next time. Talk to you soonba guy, hey,
ba fam. Let's be real for a second, and y'all
know I keep it a book. The job market has

(01:12:38):
been brutal, now not brutal trash, especially for women of color.
Over three hundred thousand of us have disappeared from the
workforce this year alone, and not by choice, but because
of layoffs, disappearing DEI programs, and stagnant wages that keep
cutting us out of opportunity. Our unemployment rate has jumped
to over seven percent, while our pay gap continues to widen.

(01:13:02):
I know all of that sounds dire, but here's what
I want y'all to know. You do not have to
wait for the system to save you. That's exactly why
I created the Mandy money Makers Group coaching community. It
is a coaching community that is built for us by us.
Inside the community, We're not just talking about how to
negotiate or to how to get the job that you want.

(01:13:23):
It's about finding purpose in your career. It's about finding
communities and others, feeling seen, feeling heard, and also having
a sounding board and a mirror to reflect your own magic,
your own sparkle right back to yourself. In this community,
you'll get group coaching led by me, but you also
get peer to peer accountability with proven tools and resources

(01:13:46):
that can help you do what we have always done
since rise. Even when the odds are stacked against us,
despite all the challenges, we will rise. If you're interested
in joining the Mandy money Makers community and having that
support to bolster you and help you tap back into
your magic so that you can lead your career with

(01:14:07):
intention and heart and your own intuition, trusting that again,
please join us. You can find information in the show
notes of today's episodes, or go to mandymoney dot com
slash community. That's Mandy m A n d I money
dot com slash community. I would love to see y'all there.

(01:14:27):
Enrollment is open, so please go check out mandymoney dot
com slash community today