October 26, 2025 • 54 mins
This week, Mandi sits down with leadership and inclusion strategist Ruchika T. Malhotra — author of Uncompete: Rejecting Competition to Unlock Radical Success. In a world obsessed with winning, Ruchika’s message is a breath of fresh air: true success comes from rest, collaboration, and community not from constant competition.
Together, they unpack what it means to unlearn scarcity, how to resist burnout, and why rest is a radical act of self-preservation for women of color. Ruchika opens up about her own experiences balancing authorship, motherhood, and identity while challenging capitalism’s grip on our worth.
It’s an honest, hopeful, and much-needed reminder that we don’t have to play by the old rules to create abundance.
📘 About the Guest
Ruchika T. Malhotra (she/her) is a globally recognized inclusion strategist, speaker, and founder of CANDOR, a consulting practice helping organizations build equitable and inclusive workplaces. Her latest book, Uncompete, challenges the myth that success must come from rivalry and invites us to build from a place of joy, rest, and abundance.
Follow Ruchika:
- Instagram: @rtulshyan
- Website: ruchikatulshyan.com
📚 Resources Mentioned
- Uncompete: Rejecting Competition to Unlock Radical Success — available November 4
- Rest is Resistance by Tricia Hersey
- “Spoon Theory” — by Christine Miserandino
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, ba fam, let's be real for a second, and
y'all know I keep it a book. The job market
has been brutal, now not brutal trash, especially for women
of color. Over three hundred thousand of us have disappeared
from the workforce this year alone, and not by choice,
but because of layoffs, disappearing DEI programs, and stagnant wages
(00:20):
that keep cutting us out of opportunity. Our unemployment rate
has jumped to over seven percent, while our pay gap
continues to widen. I know all of that sounds dire,
but here's what I want y'all to know. You do
not have to wait for the system to save you.
That's exactly why I created the Mandy money Makers Group
coaching community. It is a coaching community that is built
(00:41):
for us by us. Inside the community, we're not just
talking about how to negotiate or to how to get
the job that you want. It's about finding purpose in
your career. It's about finding communities and others, feeling seen,
feeling heard, and also having a sounding board and a
mirror to reflect your own magic, your own sparkle right
(01:03):
back to yourself. In this community, you'll get group coaching
led by me, but you also get peer to peer
accountability with proven tools and resources that can help you
do what we have always done since rise. Even when
the odds are stacked against us, despite all the challenges,
we will rise. If you're interested in joining the Mandy
(01:24):
money Makers community and having that support to bolster you
and help you tap back into your magic so that
you can lead your career with intention and heart and
your own intuition, trusting that again, please join us. You
can find information in the show notes of today's episodes
or go to mandymoney dot com slash community. That's Mandy
(01:47):
m A n d I money dot com slash community.
I would love to see y'all there. Enrollment is open,
so please go check out mandymoney dot com slash community today.
Hey va fam, welcome back to the podcast. I am
so thrilled to introduce my guest, and I guess I'm
(02:09):
gonna call her a friend too, The beautiful and delightful
and intelligent and uber talented Rushika T. Malhotra Chica is
a renowned leadership and inclusion strategist and former Brown Ambition guest.
So y'all may recognize her, recognize her voice, and her work.
She's also founded Candor, which is a global inclusive strategy practice,
(02:31):
and she's the author of a brand new book that's
coming out now. So Ba, fam, we need to go
scoop it up. It's called Uncompete, rejecting competition to unlock success.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Now.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Richica's work has always challenged the deeply ingrained myths that
can be so toxic to us in our working lives,
and this book in particular is tackling the myth that
success only comes through relentless competition, and instead Richie is
positing that we need to trampient champion a new reset
(03:04):
that leans toward collaboration, abundance, and always inclusion because she
is the inclusive queen. Welcome Rachica, Welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Mandy.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
I love you, I love this show. I will say
that you will also be a fam if I can
call you that. See Madam Mandy's name in it as well.
And a little bit about the origins of this wonderful
podcast and show.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I was a little vulnerable, you know, but I talked
about you know, Tiffany and I and our relationship in
building this podcast, and we can talk about that, but
I just want to zoom out because it's I feel
very privileged because when this book was just an idea,
I had the pleasure of just like kind of getting
a little eyes a little a little bit of a
view into the the you know, behind door. And I
(03:52):
remember being so excited when you mentioned the topic because
it just felt so urgent and needed. And I know
that this is a really freaking challenging time to be
coming out with a book that is like, let's build
community and lean toward each other and not be in
competent and not be at loggerheads, but I just want
to say, it still feels so urgent and so needed.
(04:15):
And even though I knew that as I went to start,
you know, diving into the book and and and reading it,
it really warmed my heart. It really did. I knew
I needed the message, but when you start reading the
book you just start to it just feels like a
sigh of relief, like, oh, someone out there is just
(04:36):
still fighting for compassion and community. And so just thank
you for writing it, thank you for getting it across
that finish line. It's no easy feat at all.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Thank you for saying that it's a it's a very
it's a tough time. This is not the world that
I thought I'd be launching this book into. And yes,
yet here we are, and it's hard not to lose hope.
It's hard not to think that the only way to
get ahead is by cutting each other down, because that
is what we're seeing modeled in the world. But we
(05:11):
do what we do because we've always done what we've done.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
So when did you know this was going to be
the next book?
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Oh my gosh, Oh this is a good one.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Actually, this kind of speaks to how yes, things are,
Yes they are different and they're very painful, but they're
also not that different than what felt like the good times.
So it's cutting back from a you know, a speaking engagement.
It was like a thousand person conference. It was about
(05:43):
it was, you know, speaking about my last book, Inclusion
on Purpose. We were talking about the importance of like
inclusion and it was in healthcare, and it was really
you know, we're talking about gender equity, like all of
these things that I care deeply about, and towards the
end of it, towards the end of like my time,
I'm on stage and also talking to other people there,
a lot of the conversation was like, yes, I get
(06:05):
inclusion in theory, like I love it, super important, But
the pushback I'm getting at my organization is like, how
do we also ensure that like white men feel comfortable,
Like how do we ensure that like there isn't they're
not losing out right babies? And I heard this again
(06:26):
and again and again and again, like and I think
that was and to be fair, that was like a
tipping point moment where I was like, Okay, this feels
like I'm hearing this come again and again and I'm
like all the time, I was like, it's not a
zero sum game, like it's not like there aren't limited spots.
And yet that seemed to be the biggest like even
(06:47):
in companies I worked with that were doing amazing things
and big things and really like again, people got it
in theory and we're doing cool things in practice, there
was still this like little nug it of like, oh
my god, like does this mean like I can't get
ahead or like my next generation can't get ahead because
the pendulum has wung too far in favor of women
(07:10):
of color. And I had no idea that this is
the world that we would be launching into. I had
no idea that like three hundred thousand black women would
have lost their jobs and more, and I wouldn't. I
didn't expect that, Like women across the board with various
intersectional identities, mothers, women who work for the federal government,
(07:34):
you know, women living in poverty, like the gender wage gap.
Like everything has started going back in a very noticeable
and painful way because it comes from this idea that like,
if you're winning, like my.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Group is losing.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
So that's a long winded way of saying that that was,
that was that's the core message of this look like
the you know, it's what competition leads us to believe,
and it's wrong.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
You know, we're just seeing this. I mean it's not
even the rise of this authoritarian regime. It's just it
is what it is, which really has centered on, you know,
really pin like pitting people against one another and creating
a collective enemy, you know, whether it's immigrants or the
woke elite, and you know the idea that you know,
(08:24):
these ideals, these people are coming for your opportunities, your jobs.
There's not enough what's giving you hope that there may
be some sanity left where this idea of you know,
uncompeting may actually take root.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
There's so much evidence of it, Mandy, I mean, think
of our friendship. Think of what you do with brown ambition.
Think about the way you champion women to expect more
in their lives and create community around that. About like
the incredible communities of women of color that like we
(09:04):
are part of and we have witnessed. I mean, we've
been doing this work, I know. I mean, I don't
want to make light of how challenging this time is.
And also we've been doing this work like this, We've
been building for moments like this again without being sort
of like glib about it, because things are really tough, indeed,
(09:27):
But I will not I cannot lose hope, right And
I know, and because a lot of these identities that
are being attacked. I am an immigrant, I am a
person of color, I am a mother, I have you know.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Like I have.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
I am known as a DEI person, And there is
now legislation that is like against the thing that I
have advocated for for ten years in many ways, you know,
there it sometimes does feel like there's a target on
my back, and so it is really hard, and but
(10:01):
I will still, like I will not stop because I
know I'm not doing this alone by any you know,
stretch of the imagination.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah, I mean you're right, women of color, like we
have always found community and been so like empowered by it.
I mean there's just no way we could have we
could survive, you know, through generations or the challenges that
our fore mothers have you know, dealt with, Like, yeah,
to sort of put it in context that things were
things have been worse, and the answer for in those
(10:31):
situations was sort of like, you know, community and community
organizing and supporting one another. I think we're so damn
good at it. I feel like, if I can be candid,
I think my fear is that there's like this, there's
this you know, there's this administration and this movement now
to sort of excise those women from positions of power
(10:54):
where we could influence things.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
That's right. That's right.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
And when you talk about three hundred thousand women black women,
you know, losing their jobs in the first half of
this year is definitely more by now, that's that only
goes through July. And you know, and you see the
attacks on like doctor Lisa Cook at the Federal Reserve
Board and you're in New York, Leticia James, you know,
trying to get her ousted, and of course mean, of
(11:18):
course our queen Kamala Harris like yeah, it's just.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Like Mandy when you're Mandy, when you meet Kamala, when
you meet Tamala, and I know you're gonna you're gonna
have a.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Conversation with her sometimes.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Sure, Yeah, I like I'm putting it on, like, Kamala Harris,
please come on this podcast because we.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Need to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I mean, you know, I need to read her book.
But like wow, yeah, right, like wow, and still and
to still kind of I mean she's still around. It's
not like she's licking her wounds and has you know,
kind of on a way she's like, No, this is terrible.
What has happened is terrible, and y'all need to know,
(12:05):
right we need to.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Have an eye toward it. I want to talk a
little bit about how the you know, like the stuff
you're talking about in the book pushing against the idea
of competition, how has that helped you at a time
when like you mentioned, I mean, you you have your
consulting firm that works with corporate corporations, you want to
(12:27):
invest in diversity, equity and inclusion, and I can't imagine
that this climate hasn't had an adverse impact on your work.
What are the girls in your space doing to support
one another and what's been working to sort of like
make up for any lost opportunities or lost funding and
those types of challenges.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah, I mean I have to say that it's been
really difficult, and I think that the through line has
been if we pivot, how do we do it in
a way that still stays really true to who we
are and what we advocate for. And this was part
of like what I was saying. Even with my last
book and the work that I've generally done, I think
(13:10):
to be focused on advocating for a better world, it
doesn't have to be by title. And I'll be honest,
there have been times where even in the past, where
people would be like, DEI expert, and I was like,
I mean, I can understand why everything needs a label,
or like I don't.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
I don't think I can understand.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
I can like appreciate that people need labels to simplify
and to be able to say, like, this is what
this person does. But I would always say to groups
of people all the time who would say, like I
don't know anything about DEI or I'm not, like I
don't have it in my title, and I was like,
you don't need it in your title. You need it
in What we need is like you could be an accountant,
(13:51):
you could be a doctor, you could be you know,
running a school, you could be a teacher. Whatever you do,
there is a real opportunity to ensure you do it
intentionally and do it with a mind towards equity and
inclusion that has nothing to do with your title. So
my hope will always be that even in these times,
(14:12):
even if for many of us, and you know, I
have friends who have closed down their DEI practices. I
have friends who have completely pivoted. I have friends who
have stopped being entrepreneurs and going back to a full
time sort of gig somewhere else and maybe even in
a different field. So some have gone back to get degrees.
(14:33):
I just it's you know, there's pivoting. There is pivoting
happening everywhere. And yet again, like I think this is
where and I know I don't want to like bang
on about community not stop, but there is a lot
of people really understanding that, like this is happening in
a group, and therefore when we resist, like there is
(14:53):
solidarity and coalition here to be built to push back,
you know, en Mass, It's not just happening to one
person or one individual or one business owner or one
person in the workplace.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
You know.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, And I've been thinking about the women who are pivoting,
you know, like if you were lucky enough to I
don't know if lucky is the right word, but if
your situation was that you were part of like an
in house department that was labeled with DEI or some
version of that, there's the total rebranding of it, right.
(15:26):
People are dropping the diversity, maybe the equity, just calling
it inclusive or you know, any other.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Social impact or like I mean, the pivots that my
that my clients in house have made, Like you've got
a laugh, you know, like there's some of it like
it's so ludicrous because you're like you're literally calling it
like all these other things, but you're still doing like
(15:54):
the same thing.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Like what like what I mean you kind of need
like that's a formula. I mean, I've thought of that,
and I've I've thought about like the people in house
who are doing that instead of just doing away with
you know, who are willing to be a little creative.
And it's almost like, I don't know, is there like
an underground railroad of like DEI strategists and like X
(16:16):
you know, speakers and workshops and stuff where it's like, hey,
we're going to call it this, but we are because
we care about the work. They're willing to like make
it work in this new age, and like have you
seen that happening? And like what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I think I think being creative and being very very
practical in our resistance is the way forward.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
So I'll give you an example.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
I have a good friend who sits on the board
off an awesome organization I won't name it and I
won't name her who that essentially provides shelter and housing
for women leaving really dangerous situations. The organization does receive
federal funding. So my friend who's on the board is
(17:00):
telling me like, hey, I've been thinking about you know,
like I've been in these conversations where other board members
are like, hey, like we should stick fast to our
DEI words and you know, we can't just capitulate, which
I mean yes to some extent. And my friend who
is an awesome black woman essentially says said, look like,
(17:24):
are you going to be the one who tells a
woman who shows up at three a m. With her
kid leaving a DV situation, Hey, we don't have a
bed for you tonight because we stuck to our DEI
language and lost federal funding.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Is that going to be you? Are you the person
doing that conversation?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
And so when my friend said this earlier this year
to me, it provided a level of clarity that like
even someone like me, who who you know who doesn't
work in that situation, but it provided a level of
clarity like if there's a way to do this work,
and you've got to be creative about it, you've got
(18:04):
to get you got to get practical, Like you're only
going to resist if you are practical about it, and
you do it in sort of community, in lockstep with
other people in the same situation. And that's the kind
of clarity I think we all need at this point.
You know, like, if you got to push back, you
got to push back, and you will use their sort of.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Tools to push back on them.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
You know.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, And I just feel like the broader mission has
to be taken into account. The impact that you can
have by continuing the work rather than like, you know,
choosing that hill to die on, so to speak. I mean,
I think about what can happen when like the Washington Post,
for example, you know, they fired one of their columnists.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
And my god, Karen Aatiya.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Can we just say she's amazing and I'm so glad
that she has been leading in so many ways, and
then was also very kind of like vocal right now
about what's happening. You know, she didn't kind of like
fade into the night. As someone who is in journalism
and who has worked and written for some of these
(19:15):
or past journalist, it's really hard to take on institutions
like that and be open about what happened. And she's
I mean, more power to you, Karen.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I'm just worried for women of color in corporate institutions
that don't have protections and don't have people in places
positions of power to buffer them against what's happening. And
that being said, like I'm also a coach and I'm
working with women who are fighting tooth and nail just
to get in those corporations. I was on one, I
(19:49):
was on CNBC interviewed by them recently, and I just
was like, it's like musical chairs and there's like one
hundred people going after twelve chairs, And that's just what
the job market can feel like. Now. There's just not
a ton of opportunities because of how terrified companies are
to make investments and talent, because of how jacked up,
you know, this administration is, and no one knows what
(20:11):
the where the economy is going, and that leads to
more people vying after fewer opportunities, which is like literal competition.
How do we, like, I want some wisdom from you
in this moment, how do we stop ourselves from falling
into that like you know, dog eat dog mentality, which
would be really understandable given how tight things are right now.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Yeah, I mean, I love that you named the fact
that it's systemic and it's not an individual issue, right,
And I think a lot of times, until I'd say until,
like until recently, a lot of the narrative was like
you're not trying hard enough, like your resume isn't good enough,
Like you are lacking something inherently that makes you less
(21:00):
employable than your competitor or your rival. And I love
that we are now people like us, people like you
specifically are saying like, no, it's this. It's a huge
systemic issue. Like it it runs the gamut between like
loss of trust in the economy and the government, like
the tariffs, the you know, like where do we invest
(21:22):
in the sort of hypercharge of AI. Am reading a
fantastic book called The Empire of AI by Karen Howe
about how so much especially she writes about open Eye
AI specifically in this and how much like AI was
just accelerated to try and be part of this like
empire and arms race to kind of dominate and to
(21:45):
get its creators very rich, very quickly, without the necessary guardrails,
and certainly with the ideas of like equity and inclusion
built in. So all of this to say, like, yes,
it's absolutely systemic and it's not you know, I hope
that individuals who are trying to get into these corporations
don't see it as an individual failure, which I did.
(22:06):
Like I graduated and was on the job search in
two thousand and eight, which was right out like after
like the year there was this huge financial crisis.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
I saw friends.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Literally like graduate think that they had a job in
banking and have it pulled like the rug under their feet,
and at that time you feel very much like it's you,
Like if you were better, they would have kept you on.
And it was hard to see it as a systemic issue,
which I hope now people have a little more clarity,
(22:37):
like this is totally systemic, and yes, there has to
be a mindset of like supporting each other, collaborating with
each other, sharing opportunities with each other, some of the best. So,
you know, in the book, I write about a good
friend hychobythea a few years ago, her and her and
I Echo is amazing. She also has a book out.
(22:59):
It's called Oh my Gosh, I'm going to Lose Them.
It's I know, there's aligned and accountable in it. There's
a I think there's one more aid for Ico, but
the book's coming out in the new year. But essentially
the you know, Ico and I were buying for the
same opportunity. We pitched the same client.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
She got it.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
She got the client, and I kind of had a
moment where I was like, what matters more to me? Right,
Like does it matter more to me that? Like she
quote one I lost and I'm going to like sulk
in that and I'm going to like get like completely
like overwrought in that feeling of that emotion of losing
out on something that would be a big opportunity.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Or does the relationship matter more?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
You know essentially with Ico, you know, in that moment,
I could either again lick my wounds and feel terrible
and then be like, oh, like she's my rival, or
I could say like, no, she's my friend and she's
like going to be a mentor. And I believe this
relationship is worth so much more than me getting caught
up in one loss. And I again, I don't want
(24:03):
to make light of that situation. And what's wonderful is,
you know, we have this wonderful friendship that has now
you know, been ongoing for years on end, and sometimes
we don't see each other, and then when we do,
it's like like the angel cry.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Type of situation, at least for me.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I know, if you're listening and you disagree, you can disagree.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
I won't judge you.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
But I think again that mindset has to be like,
the right opportunity for me will come for me. It'll
be at the time that I will you know that
is important to me, and that will be the right
time for me, and I think that there is a
level of practicality that we have to build for, you know,
(24:43):
and that does mean that this is a time sadly
where you know, we have to figure.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Out our finances.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
We have to figure out what are the investments that
we can make and the ones that we cannot. And
I think that I think this is, yeah, this is
the time to like organize and push back again a
lot of these ways that have kept us scarce. Because
you and I both know this. It's not that there's
a scarcity of actual money, right, There's never actually a
scarcity of actual resources. The scarcity is in pitting us
(25:15):
against each other and making us fight with each other
and really continue a long tradition of what you know
I write about in the book called Divide and Conquer,
which is when you divide people who have similar interests
and make them think that there's fewer resources than they're
easier to control.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Heyba, fam, we got to take a quick break, pay
some bills, and we'll be right back. So when you
get and I mean, I think it's so relatable that
I do. When you see someone who you respecting, you
admire and your friends and they get something and you're like, god, damn,
I know the feeling nice. Yeah, it's like times like
(25:59):
that the it can be really challenging to then to
not then say oh I can I'll just have to
work harder, be better, push myself something. You know, I
can do this. You want to fix and you want
to move forward, and you want to like, how do
you stop yourself from you know, going down that path, which,
as you write in your book, can lead to burnout
(26:22):
and fatigue and anxiety and all these like internal health
issues that can can really be destructive to us.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
One of the things I really appreciated was looking into
the research around envy and comparison. I mean, we're social animals.
We're born to compare ourselves with each other. Literally, that
is what we are hardwired for. What we are not
hardwired for, which I was very happy to learn and
research despite being told this my whole life is that
(26:51):
like humans are hardwired to compete. That's not true, And
I kind of push back against that science and narrative
in the book. But we are hardwired in many ways,
as you know, social creatures, to like compare ourselves to
each other. See how you know the other person's doing
and kind of rank ourselves a little bit and that
So the research around envy and motivation really gave me
(27:14):
a lot of Like it just gave me fire in
my belly to recognize that it's okay to be envious
of people. It's okay to take that as a signal
around like is this something or to have that moment
of intentionality to ask like is this something I really
really want? And why do I want it? And is
(27:34):
there a way to talk about or think about this
person's win as like is there something I could do
to like fall in love with the process that it
took for them to get to that position? Right?
Speaker 3 (27:46):
And what is it telling me about what are my
career goals?
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Because a lot of times the way that envy sort
of works, especially in our social media world, is oh
my gosh, like someone got like this award and something
completely unrelated to like what I do, but I hate
them now or I feel less than around them, and
I don't think many of us stop and ask ourselves
like is that award something that I really want? And
if I want that award, like what can I do
(28:12):
to make sure that I'm doing the taking the necessary
steps and falling in love with that very hard process
to get to that point. So I think that there
is some really interesting research around like motivation and envy.
It's called benign envy, where you can look at someone
doing something great and kind of motivate yourself to do better,
(28:33):
rather than malicious envy, which is I want to take
them down, I want to like disparage them, I want
to take it away from them. It's not easy to do,
but as I write, especially towards the end of the book,
it really helps safeguard you from you know, these really
like toxic emotions that can lead to burnout and mental
(28:55):
health issues and anxiety and aggression. You know, I know
many people I know, including myself, Like there have been
times in my life where things aren't working out and
I turned to vices, like I turn to more glasses
of wine than I need and things like that to
kind of numb the pain. And I think it's really
important to understand like where those feelings coming from and
(29:16):
process them.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
They're not I mean, there are feelings that you kind
of grow up, especially if you're in your religion religious householder.
You're envious one of the how many sins?
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Yeah, the worth sins?
Speaker 1 (29:26):
And we all know that that expression, and it's the
introduction of your book Comparison, is the thief of joy.
And they're not nice feelings to have and to admit
that you have. And I think I know in my practice,
like I've done so much work just like sitting in
my feelings instead of trying to numb them like you said,
(29:48):
and use these unhealthy kilpy mechanisms. And I got to say,
writing down your feeling and admitting it even to yourself
like I feel, and like labeling it. I feel envious,
I feel jealous. And it's a practice but getting to
a space where you're not judging yourself for that and
where you don't feel worse because it is a human emotion.
(30:10):
And then what I'll do is I'll write down the
feeling and then I have to explain why, and I
have to say, here's what I'm envious of. And I
like the idea, like you said, that sort of thought
exercise of is that something that I actually want? You know,
is that the thing that's for me? And what typically
(30:31):
happens if I'm journaling about that is like, but that
is actually it can't be for me because it was
for her.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Yeah, it's not for me. Something else is for me.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
For me, you know, but in that moment when that
that emotion kind of seizes you, it's quite it's quite
like I don't know, not intoxicating, but kind of when
you're seeing that with that emotion mind, you just kind
of have to slow down. And for me, writing it
out as basic as that sound, it's really helpful.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Oh, it's great advice, and it really pairs a lot
with the actual other research backed way to manage many
of these emotions, which is to write down or speak
out or have some level of practice which is around gratitude.
And I have to be careful because look, gratitude has
been weaponized for women of color, and there's a lot
of like be grateful even if you're treated like shit
(31:23):
or whatever it is, which is this is not it right,
But this is saying and the research behind saying like
slowing down again and saying like, but what are the
things I do have? Like what are the things that
do give my life meaning and joy? Like?
Speaker 3 (31:38):
What do I need to do be doing more? Off
right to.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Engage in those practices of joy and gratitude? And for me,
that has been again really powerful and most of the time,
and again in a capitalistic, hyper capitalistic, in a competitive society,
it's like, oh, well, then the way I deal with
it is I should be on like this amazing vacation
in Italy where I'm drinking wine and whatever it is,
(32:04):
like so and so, rather than understanding that a lot
of times the real joy and the real gratitude can
come from things like can I write about this in
the book, like middle of the Summer, Peaches in Seattle
like magic? And I actually would say, like in being
able to ground yourself in those moments and be really present,
Like that's how we navigate a lot of these bigger
(32:27):
That's how we build that reserve inside, how we navigate
these bigger, huge challenges that we're facing.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Hey, ba, fam, we got to take a quick break,
pay some bills, and we'll be right back. As I
was reading the book, and I loved I talked to
you about this before. I love that you focus on
rest and taking care of yourself and getting off that
hamster wheel, but like really doing good things for your body.
(32:55):
It resonates with me so much because and I haven't
talked about this on the show, and I might cry
to try not to please, I have not been able
to sleep for like six months. I have sleep apnea.
I have I've had this like of this, like really,
you know, intense anxieties come roaring back, and you know,
(33:16):
I'm like trying to work my way through it, and
I'm getting my medical health that I need. But everything
feels so much harder when you're not in a rested,
like cared for state. And I just want to talk
about I want you to talk about that. It's all
I can shut up and get out of my emotions
for a second. But how much easier it is to
(33:39):
live these values and to like think this way when
we're actually like okay and taking care of ourselves to
start with, how much harder it is when we're not
able to It's it sucks. I have no other way
of saying it.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
I'm so sorry, and I feel it in my body.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
I mean, items sleep well for years on end and
got the help I needed and in mostly a manageable place.
It's never like knockout cold for nine hours that like
the body now needs that. Science now proves you know
that we in our communities I think inherently knew, but
capitalism was like no competition was like look, sleep when
(34:21):
you're dead and all of these terrible.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Things. I look, I think that.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
It is really a radical act of resistance for us
to choose rust and embodiment. And of course, the great
Trisha Hersey had this in her book Rest as Resistance.
I write about how reading her book, around the time
I came out with the idea, like came out, like
where the idea of uncompete solidified, was around the time
I actually read rest as Resistance because I was just like, yes, like,
(34:54):
what is happening is disproportionately women of color are being
forced to like not rest because of all these horrible
stereotypes like being lazy or being left behind or not
like working hard enough or not being good enough. But
that is just not the way that we're going to
(35:14):
like be able to like we literally will lose the
ability to stay on in the fight, like be in
the long term fight and in the long term community,
if we're burning ourselves out, if we're running ourselves to
the ground. So I would say rest is one of
the most being in an embodiment.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Practice for yourself.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
And that does mean I mean that is meant that
I have turned down opportunities so that I can make
sure I build and rest. You know, I've turned down
travel opportunities because I have prioritized my health. I have
and you know, and these are newer things. I mean
until very recently in some ways, until I wrote the book,
(35:57):
and that those chapters where I was like a be
a hypocrite now and like run myself ragged when I'm
telling people like to uncompete. But it's been life changing
and I think what it did, and speaking often as
a business owner who literally my business inquiries and I
and you know, I talked to the New York Times
about this. I was nervous about it, but I decided
(36:19):
to go ahead. And I hope people understand, like I
had an eighty percent drop in business inquiries between twenty
twenty four and twenty twenty five and the same one year,
like in a one year period, and I'm sure that's
even more now if I I didn't do the maths
after that, but the rest and embodiment practices that I
(36:41):
had built. I went and got a yoga you know,
teacher certification. I don't teach. It was for myself, but
so much of the certification I got and the teacher
I trained under was around the philosophy of why yoga
came about right the ancient sense and made the trus.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
That have kind of led us to where we are.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
That said, like you you know your body is worthy
the way that.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
It is you're you.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
You know, there's a concept called mudita and in sort
of vasic sensekric traditions, which is like again, like have
joy for other successes, because what's made for you isn't
like going to not come for you like you will
get you will get it. And I think that could
only come like dealing with such a huge loss in
(37:31):
my business and dealing with so much of stress around
like how do I like, how do I like get
creative and make sure that the people who depend on
me to employ them, you know, don't lose their livelihood.
It came from like it came from a place of
like deep like knowing and embodiment of like this is
(37:52):
how we're going to navigate these times. And if I
think I had tried to navigate those times with like
stress and anxiety and running myself ragged, I don't think
I would be able to get to this place of
where I am right now.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Yeah, it can feel like the answer to some sort
of challenge is action, and it's so damn hard to
remind yourself that sometimes in action or like I mean,
rest is in action. But like stepping away from it,
focusing on yourself makes you stronger and more ready to
(38:27):
tackle whatever that challenge is.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
And to take strategic action, right, Like there is action
you take because you're like, oh, like I'm spinning, I'm
throwing everything on the wall and hoping something will stick
to like, know, here are like three things that I
can reasonably do without burning out to try and navigate
(38:49):
these times, you know, and these are like what makes
the most strategic sense and what is the best use
of my time? And in being able to like kind
of lead with that again, even for my own business,
I was able to be like, Okay, here are the
salaries that we definitely need no matter what, how are
we going to make that work?
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Right?
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Like, here are things that were wonderful and lovely, and
I wish I could keep those going. Here's what needs
to get cut right, and I think you can only
if you do that from a place of like calm
and a place of like rest, then you make better decisions.
There's research behind that too, And if you come in
from a place of like the sky is falling. Everything
(39:30):
stressful you're going to make You're just not going to
make good decisions. And that's the reality, and especially in
these moments, we need to a lot of the decisions
we make now is going to be what helps us
in our careers and in our businesses and as women
and as mothers like that. There are many micro decisions
that we're making now that will have a larger impact
(39:53):
in years to come, because you know, the pendulum is
definitely swinging back. Oh obviously, I'm scared and fearful of
what we're losing in the pendulum swing so far one way.
It is of course going to swing back. There'll be
a lot of collateral damage. But this is how we
build resourves for that moment too well.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
We survived the financial crisis. Look at us now, Look
at it now. I also was a newly new graduate
in nine trying to make my way. These things that
alter us, like fundamentally the way that we're wired and
when we move, it's like it's very very toxic. We
think we're comparing ourselves to the hottest bombshell on Love Island,
(40:31):
but really it's like it's that version of me from
a year or two ago. Yeah, Yeah, romanticizing that version. Yeah,
because that ever come up with you or did it
come up for you in this work at all? Two
when you were putting the book together.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
All the time. I mean okay, So two things. One
is thank you for that. And I do want to
say someday like I would I write about Lakita Williams.
I'm going to have her at my launch event in Seattle,
going to be on stage with me. She's my business
coach and a dear friend who told me and talked
to me about spoon theory and as someone you know
(41:08):
she identifies as a badass entrepreneur who has a chronic
health condition. Lakita really talked to me about like spoon
theory and the idea that like not everyone has the
same hours in a day, right, and it's less about
hours and more about energy and if you have chronic
illness or disability, like in the disability just as community,
(41:31):
there is this concept of like you have your energy
is a finite amount of spoons, So how are you
going to kind of and what could take you know,
one spoon of energy today? I e. You know, getting
out of bed and having a shower tomorrow could take
four spoons and then you only have you know, a
remaining number of spoons left. So I have to say, like,
(41:53):
what one of the most pernicious challenges of competition is
this idea that like you have to compare yourself and
you have to immediately rank yourself, and then you feel terrible,
and it sometimes often immobilizes you to then even get
back on your feet because you feel so terrible. So
I want to say that I have to say for me,
(42:14):
the big comparison thing. I mean, I'm living through it
right now. I can't like when you are a second
time author or I mean typically like technically I'm a
third time author, but my first book was like basically
self published, so let's say second time traditionally published author.
It's super hard not to be like, oh, but the
last time that version of me when when I launched
(42:38):
my book, like this is this happened? That didn't happen
this time. I've already had a couple of things happen
even before the book came out that like worked for
the last launch and didn't didn't come through for this one,
for example. And it's really hard not to be like, oh,
it's because I'm not good enough, or like that version
of me was great and worked so much harder, but
this version of me, because of the rest and all
(42:59):
of that, hasn't, you know, achieved the same results. And
it's really easy to fall into that comparison with you,
you know, with yourself or an earlier version of yourself.
And again in those moments like being able to like
really sit down and ground and like what did work out?
Like what are you grateful for this moment that did
(43:20):
work out? The level of community building Mandy this time
around with uncompete it like it that brings tears to
my eyes. I don't care that like so and so
publication or so and so expert or so and so podcast.
Although I would have felt very upset if Brown Ambition
didn't have me back, so I.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
Will, I would have been upset.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
That was a huge win. It was a huge win.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
And I remember it so clearly because the first time
that I came on, like Stacy Abrams had been on
like a couple of weeks ago, and I was like,
what just happened? And this time around you had Zarna
Gargo a few months ago, and I was like, what
has just happened, Like how can I follow this person,
you know, like in the same podcast, and then you
(44:07):
know you of course, and I and I have to say,
like I think it's again, it's very easy. You know,
we think competition, we think competition is about the best
person winning. When you actually peel it back, competition is
about the person who best fits in to an already
defined standard and mold. So there's a part of you
(44:30):
that has to be very okay with saying like I
don't fit into the mold, Like I know, I don't
fit into any mold or any defined standards of success.
So then what are my definitions of success? Like what
are my definitions of me winning at life? Because I
don't want to like conform to the standard which anyway
(44:50):
wasn't built with me in mind.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Yeah, it's about like when the the more you know
yourself and like the deeper your well of self love goes,
and like so acceptance. It makes the uncompete so much
easier because you really like you can self identify what's
for you and what's not for you and what's a
good fit. Even with the show, I mean, there's other
(45:14):
there's tons of other podcasts, right, and I'll see so
and so it's got this book and they're on that episode,
and I love this person, but is that the right
fit for Brown Ambition and for our audience? And you know,
so I've had I'll stop myself from chasing down a
lead for a certain person or certain whatever, and it's
just like, oh wait, girl, you're losing sight again. I'll
(45:35):
just bring it on back, bring it back to your focus.
And that's why, of course it's an easy yes for
someone like you to be on the show. I mean,
you are Brown Ambition personified.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
And I just want to add one more quick thing
with that. I just want to say so much that
like your community like is just really powerful and I'm
glad you're not you know podcast A and B and
C and D, like, this is a really special community
for a reason, and I'm I would be I would
(46:10):
not want you to lose this beautiful community if you
because you chased and became ABCD like that's not any great.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
Yeah, hey, Sam, you're my boss. Tell me how I'm
doing want you and you don't like thanks for saying that. Well,
I want to wrap things up by just again congratulating
you on the book and just to say that I've
been waiting for months, ever since I kind of knew
(46:41):
the book was happening, and before I even launched this
new sort of initiative under Brown Ambition, I've just been
waiting to tell you that I'm going to make Uncompete
my book club selection for November. Yeah. Brown Ambision book Club,
we are going to be scooping out for our copies
(47:04):
of Uncompete. She is the and you know it's kind
of off of my Bob. I've been doing like a
bi monthly book club. Pick your book doesn't come out
until November, but I don't really care because I can
make the system and break it. But Uncompete is going
to be our November December book club pick.
Speaker 3 (47:19):
Y'all stop, yay, I don't have works.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Oh my god, we did it, Joe, You're the best.
We love you. You're not really getting emotions, top it.
It's that important of a message. We need this book.
It's so the opposite of what everything else is telling
(47:49):
us right now. It has to just it just feels right.
You know, it's not going to be about you know,
picking a book. That's going to be like we're going
to invest more and work harder and work smarter and
be more productive. And here's how you're going to use
AI to change your career. No, it's like this book
is the answer. I feel like it's how are we
going to take a breath? How are we going to
(48:10):
stop comparing ourselves? How are we going to reach toward
each other? Start building community, you know, harnessing joy, all
these concepts that just feel like they don't have a
place in this America that we're in right now. I
feel like this is an act of resistance to say, no,
this is a book that we're going to read as
a community. BA fan and I'm just so proud. I'm
(48:31):
so proud to have it on our shelves.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
I mean I'm speechless, I fake speechless.
Speaker 3 (48:38):
Actually, thank you s something. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
I mean I don't have words because it's been so
it's been so hard to push in this moment, you know,
and I know, I know we have each other, and
I know we're all doing this in our own ways,
but thank you. This level of support is like, it's
(49:07):
it's transformational.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
What is it?
Speaker 1 (49:10):
Like?
Speaker 3 (49:11):
What happens right?
Speaker 1 (49:12):
Like?
Speaker 2 (49:12):
What competition does is it has so many of us
believing that we not only are we not worthy? But
like that nobody has our back. But that's what I'm
competing is about, like you, you are showing time and
again that actually there are people who have your back.
Speaker 3 (49:31):
You're not alone. So thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
You're absolutely not alone. And it's just good vibes coming
right back at you, you know, And I'm really grateful
for our friendship and the support that you've shown the
show and me and you know, you know you'll be
getting you'll be getting my my panic emails coming soon.
Speaker 3 (49:53):
And bringing them on.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
It is my third manuscript, yeah, track, I've written about
seventy five books at this point.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
I know it's really hard.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
What you're doing is like it's the hardest part right well,
because the other part's going to come a little easier
to you that than it does to me, which is
the sort.
Speaker 3 (50:15):
Of like talking about the book and being like, I
love you.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
Know, I'm an extrovert, I think, but I also like
get very like podcasts make me very like nervous, so
I have to like get myself ready for it, which
you are natural at. But this is the hardest part
apart from that. So you're in it, but you're not alone.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
You're doing great sweetie, you're doing amazing and I can't
wait to add the book. You know, as I've been
writing my book, when I go to the library, I'll
make a little stack, an emotional support stack of books
that I pull off the shelf, just like by other
women of color, usually in the business category. And it's
just like and I think if each book was just
a person typing away at their computer in the dark
(50:57):
and they got their book done. And I'm going to
add you your book right on top of that stack.
I can't wait again. Brand Ambition. The book is called Uncompete,
Rejecting Competition to Unlock Success by my extraordinary guest Rachika T. Malhotra.
Congratulation on congratulations on the book and much success. And
(51:18):
I'm going to see you in Brooklyn. Thank We're going
to party.
Speaker 3 (51:22):
Thank you so much, my friend.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
Oh my god, wow, Okayva fan, thank you so much
for listening to this week's show. I want to shout
out to our production team, Courtney, our editor, Carla, our
fearless leader for idea to launch productions. I want to
shout out my assistant Lauda Escalante and Cameron McNair for
(51:46):
helping me put the show together. It is not a
one person project, as much as I have tried to
make it so these past ten years, I need help, y'all,
and thank goodness I've been able to put this team
around me to support me on this. And to y'all,
ba fam, I love you so so so so much.
Please rate review, subscribe, make sure you sign up to
(52:07):
the newsletter to get all the latest updates on upcoming episodes,
our ten year anniversary celebrations to come, and until next time,
Talk to you soon, da guy, hey, ba fam. Let's
be real for a second, and y'all know I keep
it a book. The job market has been brutal, now
not brutal trash, especially for women of color. Over three
(52:30):
hundred thousand of us have disappeared from the workforce this
year alone, and not by choice, but because of layoffs,
disappearing DEI programs, and stagnant wages that keep cutting us
out of opportunity. Our unemployment rate has jumped to over
seven percent, while our pay gap continues to widen. I
know all of that sounds dire, but here's what I
(52:51):
want y'all to know. You do not have to wait
for the system to save you. That's exactly why I
created the Mandy money Makers group coaching community. It is
a coaching community that is built for us by us.
Inside the community, we're not just talking about how to
negotiate or to how to get the job that you want.
It's about finding purpose in your career. It's about finding
(53:13):
communities and others, feeling seen, feeling heard, and also having
a sounding board and a mirror to reflect your own magic,
your own sparkle right back to yourself. In this community,
you'll get group coaching led by me, but you also
get peer to peer accountability with proven tools and resources
that can help you do what we have always done
(53:35):
since rise. Even when the odds are stacked against us,
despite all the challenges, we will rise. If you're interested
in joining the Mandy money Makers community and having that
support to bolster you and help you tap back into
your magic so that you can lead your career with
intention and heart and your own intuition, trusting that again,
(53:58):
please join us. You can find information in the show
notes of today's episodes, or go to mandymoney dot com
slash community. That's Mandy m a n d I money
dot com slash community. I would love to see y'all there.
Enrollment is open, so please go check out mandymoney dot
com slash community today
Hey, ba fam, let's be real for a second, and
y'all know I keep it a book. The job market
has been brutal, now not brutal trash, especially for women
of color. Over three hundred thousand of us have disappeared
from the workforce this year alone, and not by choice,
but because of layoffs, disappearing DEI programs, and stagnant wages
(00:20):
that keep cutting us out of opportunity. Our unemployment rate
has jumped to over seven percent, while our pay gap
continues to widen. I know all of that sounds dire,
but here's what I want y'all to know. You do
not have to wait for the system to save you.
That's exactly why I created the Mandy money Makers Group
coaching community. It is a coaching community that is built
(00:41):
for us by us. Inside the community, we're not just
talking about how to negotiate or to how to get
the job that you want. It's about finding purpose in
your career. It's about finding communities and others, feeling seen,
feeling heard, and also having a sounding board and a
mirror to reflect your own magic, your own sparkle right
(01:03):
back to yourself. In this community, you'll get group coaching
led by me, but you also get peer to peer
accountability with proven tools and resources that can help you
do what we have always done since rise. Even when
the odds are stacked against us, despite all the challenges,
we will rise. If you're interested in joining the Mandy
(01:24):
money Makers community and having that support to bolster you
and help you tap back into your magic so that
you can lead your career with intention and heart and
your own intuition, trusting that again, please join us. You
can find information in the show notes of today's episodes
or go to mandymoney dot com slash community. That's Mandy
(01:47):
m A n d I money dot com slash community.
I would love to see y'all there. Enrollment is open,
so please go check out mandymoney dot com slash community today.
Hey va fam, welcome back to the podcast. I am
so thrilled to introduce my guest, and I guess I'm
(02:09):
gonna call her a friend too, The beautiful and delightful
and intelligent and uber talented Rushika T. Malhotra Chica is
a renowned leadership and inclusion strategist and former Brown Ambition guest.
So y'all may recognize her, recognize her voice, and her work.
She's also founded Candor, which is a global inclusive strategy practice,
(02:31):
and she's the author of a brand new book that's
coming out now. So Ba, fam, we need to go
scoop it up. It's called Uncompete, rejecting competition to unlock success.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Now.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Richica's work has always challenged the deeply ingrained myths that
can be so toxic to us in our working lives,
and this book in particular is tackling the myth that
success only comes through relentless competition, and instead Richie is
positing that we need to trampient champion a new reset
(03:04):
that leans toward collaboration, abundance, and always inclusion because she
is the inclusive queen. Welcome Rachica, Welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Mandy.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
I love you, I love this show. I will say
that you will also be a fam if I can
call you that. See Madam Mandy's name in it as well.
And a little bit about the origins of this wonderful
podcast and show.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I was a little vulnerable, you know, but I talked
about you know, Tiffany and I and our relationship in
building this podcast, and we can talk about that, but
I just want to zoom out because it's I feel
very privileged because when this book was just an idea,
I had the pleasure of just like kind of getting
a little eyes a little a little bit of a
view into the the you know, behind door. And I
(03:52):
remember being so excited when you mentioned the topic because
it just felt so urgent and needed. And I know
that this is a really freaking challenging time to be
coming out with a book that is like, let's build
community and lean toward each other and not be in
competent and not be at loggerheads, but I just want
to say, it still feels so urgent and so needed.
(04:15):
And even though I knew that as I went to start,
you know, diving into the book and and and reading it,
it really warmed my heart. It really did. I knew
I needed the message, but when you start reading the
book you just start to it just feels like a
sigh of relief, like, oh, someone out there is just
(04:36):
still fighting for compassion and community. And so just thank
you for writing it, thank you for getting it across
that finish line. It's no easy feat at all.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Thank you for saying that it's a it's a very
it's a tough time. This is not the world that
I thought I'd be launching this book into. And yes,
yet here we are, and it's hard not to lose hope.
It's hard not to think that the only way to
get ahead is by cutting each other down, because that
is what we're seeing modeled in the world. But we
(05:11):
do what we do because we've always done what we've done.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
So when did you know this was going to be
the next book?
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Oh my gosh, Oh this is a good one.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Actually, this kind of speaks to how yes, things are,
Yes they are different and they're very painful, but they're
also not that different than what felt like the good times.
So it's cutting back from a you know, a speaking engagement.
It was like a thousand person conference. It was about
(05:43):
it was, you know, speaking about my last book, Inclusion
on Purpose. We were talking about the importance of like
inclusion and it was in healthcare, and it was really
you know, we're talking about gender equity, like all of
these things that I care deeply about, and towards the
end of it, towards the end of like my time,
I'm on stage and also talking to other people there,
a lot of the conversation was like, yes, I get
(06:05):
inclusion in theory, like I love it, super important, But
the pushback I'm getting at my organization is like, how
do we also ensure that like white men feel comfortable,
Like how do we ensure that like there isn't they're
not losing out right babies? And I heard this again
(06:26):
and again and again and again, like and I think
that was and to be fair, that was like a
tipping point moment where I was like, Okay, this feels
like I'm hearing this come again and again and I'm
like all the time, I was like, it's not a
zero sum game, like it's not like there aren't limited spots.
And yet that seemed to be the biggest like even
(06:47):
in companies I worked with that were doing amazing things
and big things and really like again, people got it
in theory and we're doing cool things in practice, there
was still this like little nug it of like, oh
my god, like does this mean like I can't get
ahead or like my next generation can't get ahead because
the pendulum has wung too far in favor of women
(07:10):
of color. And I had no idea that this is
the world that we would be launching into. I had
no idea that like three hundred thousand black women would
have lost their jobs and more, and I wouldn't. I
didn't expect that, Like women across the board with various
intersectional identities, mothers, women who work for the federal government,
(07:34):
you know, women living in poverty, like the gender wage gap.
Like everything has started going back in a very noticeable
and painful way because it comes from this idea that like,
if you're winning, like my.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Group is losing.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
So that's a long winded way of saying that that was,
that was that's the core message of this look like
the you know, it's what competition leads us to believe,
and it's wrong.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
You know, we're just seeing this. I mean it's not
even the rise of this authoritarian regime. It's just it
is what it is, which really has centered on, you know,
really pin like pitting people against one another and creating
a collective enemy, you know, whether it's immigrants or the
woke elite, and you know the idea that you know,
(08:24):
these ideals, these people are coming for your opportunities, your jobs.
There's not enough what's giving you hope that there may
be some sanity left where this idea of you know,
uncompeting may actually take root.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
There's so much evidence of it, Mandy, I mean, think
of our friendship. Think of what you do with brown ambition.
Think about the way you champion women to expect more
in their lives and create community around that. About like
the incredible communities of women of color that like we
(09:04):
are part of and we have witnessed. I mean, we've
been doing this work, I know. I mean, I don't
want to make light of how challenging this time is.
And also we've been doing this work like this, We've
been building for moments like this again without being sort
of like glib about it, because things are really tough, indeed,
(09:27):
But I will not I cannot lose hope, right And
I know, and because a lot of these identities that
are being attacked. I am an immigrant, I am a
person of color, I am a mother, I have you know.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Like I have.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
I am known as a DEI person, And there is
now legislation that is like against the thing that I
have advocated for for ten years in many ways, you know,
there it sometimes does feel like there's a target on
my back, and so it is really hard, and but
(10:01):
I will still, like I will not stop because I
know I'm not doing this alone by any you know,
stretch of the imagination.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah, I mean you're right, women of color, like we
have always found community and been so like empowered by it.
I mean there's just no way we could have we
could survive, you know, through generations or the challenges that
our fore mothers have you know, dealt with, Like, yeah,
to sort of put it in context that things were
things have been worse, and the answer for in those
(10:31):
situations was sort of like, you know, community and community
organizing and supporting one another. I think we're so damn
good at it. I feel like, if I can be candid,
I think my fear is that there's like this, there's
this you know, there's this administration and this movement now
to sort of excise those women from positions of power
(10:54):
where we could influence things.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
That's right. That's right.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
And when you talk about three hundred thousand women black women,
you know, losing their jobs in the first half of
this year is definitely more by now, that's that only
goes through July. And you know, and you see the
attacks on like doctor Lisa Cook at the Federal Reserve
Board and you're in New York, Leticia James, you know,
trying to get her ousted, and of course mean, of
(11:18):
course our queen Kamala Harris like yeah, it's just.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Like Mandy when you're Mandy, when you meet Kamala, when
you meet Tamala, and I know you're gonna you're gonna
have a.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Conversation with her sometimes.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Sure, Yeah, I like I'm putting it on, like, Kamala Harris,
please come on this podcast because we.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Need to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I mean, you know, I need to read her book.
But like wow, yeah, right, like wow, and still and
to still kind of I mean she's still around. It's
not like she's licking her wounds and has you know,
kind of on a way she's like, No, this is terrible.
What has happened is terrible, and y'all need to know,
(12:05):
right we need to.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Have an eye toward it. I want to talk a
little bit about how the you know, like the stuff
you're talking about in the book pushing against the idea
of competition, how has that helped you at a time
when like you mentioned, I mean, you you have your
consulting firm that works with corporate corporations, you want to
(12:27):
invest in diversity, equity and inclusion, and I can't imagine
that this climate hasn't had an adverse impact on your work.
What are the girls in your space doing to support
one another and what's been working to sort of like
make up for any lost opportunities or lost funding and
those types of challenges.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah, I mean I have to say that it's been
really difficult, and I think that the through line has
been if we pivot, how do we do it in
a way that still stays really true to who we
are and what we advocate for. And this was part
of like what I was saying. Even with my last
book and the work that I've generally done, I think
(13:10):
to be focused on advocating for a better world, it
doesn't have to be by title. And I'll be honest,
there have been times where even in the past, where
people would be like, DEI expert, and I was like,
I mean, I can understand why everything needs a label,
or like I don't.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
I don't think I can understand.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
I can like appreciate that people need labels to simplify
and to be able to say, like, this is what
this person does. But I would always say to groups
of people all the time who would say, like I
don't know anything about DEI or I'm not, like I
don't have it in my title, and I was like,
you don't need it in your title. You need it
in What we need is like you could be an accountant,
(13:51):
you could be a doctor, you could be you know,
running a school, you could be a teacher. Whatever you do,
there is a real opportunity to ensure you do it
intentionally and do it with a mind towards equity and
inclusion that has nothing to do with your title. So
my hope will always be that even in these times,
(14:12):
even if for many of us, and you know, I
have friends who have closed down their DEI practices. I
have friends who have completely pivoted. I have friends who
have stopped being entrepreneurs and going back to a full
time sort of gig somewhere else and maybe even in
a different field. So some have gone back to get degrees.
(14:33):
I just it's you know, there's pivoting. There is pivoting
happening everywhere. And yet again, like I think this is
where and I know I don't want to like bang
on about community not stop, but there is a lot
of people really understanding that, like this is happening in
a group, and therefore when we resist, like there is
(14:53):
solidarity and coalition here to be built to push back,
you know, en Mass, It's not just happening to one
person or one individual or one business owner or one
person in the workplace.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
You know.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, And I've been thinking about the women who are pivoting,
you know, like if you were lucky enough to I
don't know if lucky is the right word, but if
your situation was that you were part of like an
in house department that was labeled with DEI or some
version of that, there's the total rebranding of it, right.
(15:26):
People are dropping the diversity, maybe the equity, just calling
it inclusive or you know, any other.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Social impact or like I mean, the pivots that my
that my clients in house have made, Like you've got
a laugh, you know, like there's some of it like
it's so ludicrous because you're like you're literally calling it
like all these other things, but you're still doing like
(15:54):
the same thing.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Like what like what I mean you kind of need
like that's a formula. I mean, I've thought of that,
and I've I've thought about like the people in house
who are doing that instead of just doing away with
you know, who are willing to be a little creative.
And it's almost like, I don't know, is there like
an underground railroad of like DEI strategists and like X
(16:16):
you know, speakers and workshops and stuff where it's like, hey,
we're going to call it this, but we are because
we care about the work. They're willing to like make
it work in this new age, and like have you
seen that happening? And like what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I think I think being creative and being very very
practical in our resistance is the way forward.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
So I'll give you an example.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
I have a good friend who sits on the board
off an awesome organization I won't name it and I
won't name her who that essentially provides shelter and housing
for women leaving really dangerous situations. The organization does receive
federal funding. So my friend who's on the board is
(17:00):
telling me like, hey, I've been thinking about you know,
like I've been in these conversations where other board members
are like, hey, like we should stick fast to our
DEI words and you know, we can't just capitulate, which
I mean yes to some extent. And my friend who
is an awesome black woman essentially says said, look like,
(17:24):
are you going to be the one who tells a
woman who shows up at three a m. With her
kid leaving a DV situation, Hey, we don't have a
bed for you tonight because we stuck to our DEI
language and lost federal funding.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Is that going to be you? Are you the person
doing that conversation?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
And so when my friend said this earlier this year
to me, it provided a level of clarity that like
even someone like me, who who you know who doesn't
work in that situation, but it provided a level of
clarity like if there's a way to do this work,
and you've got to be creative about it, you've got
(18:04):
to get you got to get practical, Like you're only
going to resist if you are practical about it, and
you do it in sort of community, in lockstep with
other people in the same situation. And that's the kind
of clarity I think we all need at this point.
You know, like, if you got to push back, you
got to push back, and you will use their sort of.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Tools to push back on them.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
You know.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, And I just feel like the broader mission has
to be taken into account. The impact that you can
have by continuing the work rather than like, you know,
choosing that hill to die on, so to speak. I mean,
I think about what can happen when like the Washington Post,
for example, you know, they fired one of their columnists.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
And my god, Karen Aatiya.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Can we just say she's amazing and I'm so glad
that she has been leading in so many ways, and
then was also very kind of like vocal right now
about what's happening. You know, she didn't kind of like
fade into the night. As someone who is in journalism
and who has worked and written for some of these
(19:15):
or past journalist, it's really hard to take on institutions
like that and be open about what happened. And she's
I mean, more power to you, Karen.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I'm just worried for women of color in corporate institutions
that don't have protections and don't have people in places
positions of power to buffer them against what's happening. And
that being said, like I'm also a coach and I'm
working with women who are fighting tooth and nail just
to get in those corporations. I was on one, I
(19:49):
was on CNBC interviewed by them recently, and I just
was like, it's like musical chairs and there's like one
hundred people going after twelve chairs, And that's just what
the job market can feel like. Now. There's just not
a ton of opportunities because of how terrified companies are
to make investments and talent, because of how jacked up,
you know, this administration is, and no one knows what
(20:11):
the where the economy is going, and that leads to
more people vying after fewer opportunities, which is like literal competition.
How do we, like, I want some wisdom from you
in this moment, how do we stop ourselves from falling
into that like you know, dog eat dog mentality, which
would be really understandable given how tight things are right now.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Yeah, I mean, I love that you named the fact
that it's systemic and it's not an individual issue, right,
And I think a lot of times, until I'd say until,
like until recently, a lot of the narrative was like
you're not trying hard enough, like your resume isn't good enough,
Like you are lacking something inherently that makes you less
(21:00):
employable than your competitor or your rival. And I love
that we are now people like us, people like you
specifically are saying like, no, it's this. It's a huge
systemic issue. Like it it runs the gamut between like
loss of trust in the economy and the government, like
the tariffs, the you know, like where do we invest
(21:22):
in the sort of hypercharge of AI. Am reading a
fantastic book called The Empire of AI by Karen Howe
about how so much especially she writes about open Eye
AI specifically in this and how much like AI was
just accelerated to try and be part of this like
empire and arms race to kind of dominate and to
(21:45):
get its creators very rich, very quickly, without the necessary guardrails,
and certainly with the ideas of like equity and inclusion
built in. So all of this to say, like, yes,
it's absolutely systemic and it's not you know, I hope
that individuals who are trying to get into these corporations
don't see it as an individual failure, which I did.
(22:06):
Like I graduated and was on the job search in
two thousand and eight, which was right out like after
like the year there was this huge financial crisis.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
I saw friends.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Literally like graduate think that they had a job in
banking and have it pulled like the rug under their feet,
and at that time you feel very much like it's you,
Like if you were better, they would have kept you on.
And it was hard to see it as a systemic issue,
which I hope now people have a little more clarity,
(22:37):
like this is totally systemic, and yes, there has to
be a mindset of like supporting each other, collaborating with
each other, sharing opportunities with each other, some of the best. So,
you know, in the book, I write about a good
friend hychobythea a few years ago, her and her and
I Echo is amazing. She also has a book out.
(22:59):
It's called Oh my Gosh, I'm going to Lose Them.
It's I know, there's aligned and accountable in it. There's
a I think there's one more aid for Ico, but
the book's coming out in the new year. But essentially
the you know, Ico and I were buying for the
same opportunity. We pitched the same client.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
She got it.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
She got the client, and I kind of had a
moment where I was like, what matters more to me? Right,
Like does it matter more to me that? Like she
quote one I lost and I'm going to like sulk
in that and I'm going to like get like completely
like overwrought in that feeling of that emotion of losing
out on something that would be a big opportunity.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Or does the relationship matter more?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
You know essentially with Ico, you know, in that moment,
I could either again lick my wounds and feel terrible
and then be like, oh, like she's my rival, or
I could say like, no, she's my friend and she's
like going to be a mentor. And I believe this
relationship is worth so much more than me getting caught
up in one loss. And I again, I don't want
(24:03):
to make light of that situation. And what's wonderful is,
you know, we have this wonderful friendship that has now
you know, been ongoing for years on end, and sometimes
we don't see each other, and then when we do,
it's like like the angel cry.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Type of situation, at least for me.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I know, if you're listening and you disagree, you can disagree.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
I won't judge you.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
But I think again that mindset has to be like,
the right opportunity for me will come for me. It'll
be at the time that I will you know that
is important to me, and that will be the right
time for me, and I think that there is a
level of practicality that we have to build for, you know,
(24:43):
and that does mean that this is a time sadly
where you know, we have to figure.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Out our finances.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
We have to figure out what are the investments that
we can make and the ones that we cannot. And
I think that I think this is, yeah, this is
the time to like organize and push back again a
lot of these ways that have kept us scarce. Because
you and I both know this. It's not that there's
a scarcity of actual money, right, There's never actually a
scarcity of actual resources. The scarcity is in pitting us
(25:15):
against each other and making us fight with each other
and really continue a long tradition of what you know
I write about in the book called Divide and Conquer,
which is when you divide people who have similar interests
and make them think that there's fewer resources than they're
easier to control.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Heyba, fam, we got to take a quick break, pay
some bills, and we'll be right back. So when you
get and I mean, I think it's so relatable that
I do. When you see someone who you respecting, you
admire and your friends and they get something and you're like, god, damn,
I know the feeling nice. Yeah, it's like times like
(25:59):
that the it can be really challenging to then to
not then say oh I can I'll just have to
work harder, be better, push myself something. You know, I
can do this. You want to fix and you want
to move forward, and you want to like, how do
you stop yourself from you know, going down that path, which,
as you write in your book, can lead to burnout
(26:22):
and fatigue and anxiety and all these like internal health
issues that can can really be destructive to us.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
One of the things I really appreciated was looking into
the research around envy and comparison. I mean, we're social animals.
We're born to compare ourselves with each other. Literally, that
is what we are hardwired for. What we are not
hardwired for, which I was very happy to learn and
research despite being told this my whole life is that
(26:51):
like humans are hardwired to compete. That's not true, And
I kind of push back against that science and narrative
in the book. But we are hardwired in many ways,
as you know, social creatures, to like compare ourselves to
each other. See how you know the other person's doing
and kind of rank ourselves a little bit and that
So the research around envy and motivation really gave me
(27:14):
a lot of Like it just gave me fire in
my belly to recognize that it's okay to be envious
of people. It's okay to take that as a signal
around like is this something or to have that moment
of intentionality to ask like is this something I really
really want? And why do I want it? And is
(27:34):
there a way to talk about or think about this
person's win as like is there something I could do
to like fall in love with the process that it
took for them to get to that position? Right?
Speaker 3 (27:46):
And what is it telling me about what are my
career goals?
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Because a lot of times the way that envy sort
of works, especially in our social media world, is oh
my gosh, like someone got like this award and something
completely unrelated to like what I do, but I hate
them now or I feel less than around them, and
I don't think many of us stop and ask ourselves
like is that award something that I really want? And
if I want that award, like what can I do
(28:12):
to make sure that I'm doing the taking the necessary
steps and falling in love with that very hard process
to get to that point. So I think that there
is some really interesting research around like motivation and envy.
It's called benign envy, where you can look at someone
doing something great and kind of motivate yourself to do better,
(28:33):
rather than malicious envy, which is I want to take
them down, I want to like disparage them, I want
to take it away from them. It's not easy to do,
but as I write, especially towards the end of the book,
it really helps safeguard you from you know, these really
like toxic emotions that can lead to burnout and mental
(28:55):
health issues and anxiety and aggression. You know, I know
many people I know, including myself, Like there have been
times in my life where things aren't working out and
I turned to vices, like I turn to more glasses
of wine than I need and things like that to
kind of numb the pain. And I think it's really
important to understand like where those feelings coming from and
(29:16):
process them.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
They're not I mean, there are feelings that you kind
of grow up, especially if you're in your religion religious householder.
You're envious one of the how many sins?
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Yeah, the worth sins?
Speaker 1 (29:26):
And we all know that that expression, and it's the
introduction of your book Comparison, is the thief of joy.
And they're not nice feelings to have and to admit
that you have. And I think I know in my practice,
like I've done so much work just like sitting in
my feelings instead of trying to numb them like you said,
(29:48):
and use these unhealthy kilpy mechanisms. And I got to say,
writing down your feeling and admitting it even to yourself
like I feel, and like labeling it. I feel envious,
I feel jealous. And it's a practice but getting to
a space where you're not judging yourself for that and
where you don't feel worse because it is a human emotion.
(30:10):
And then what I'll do is I'll write down the
feeling and then I have to explain why, and I
have to say, here's what I'm envious of. And I
like the idea, like you said, that sort of thought
exercise of is that something that I actually want? You know,
is that the thing that's for me? And what typically
(30:31):
happens if I'm journaling about that is like, but that
is actually it can't be for me because it was
for her.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Yeah, it's not for me. Something else is for me.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
For me, you know, but in that moment when that
that emotion kind of seizes you, it's quite it's quite
like I don't know, not intoxicating, but kind of when
you're seeing that with that emotion mind, you just kind
of have to slow down. And for me, writing it
out as basic as that sound, it's really helpful.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Oh, it's great advice, and it really pairs a lot
with the actual other research backed way to manage many
of these emotions, which is to write down or speak
out or have some level of practice which is around gratitude.
And I have to be careful because look, gratitude has
been weaponized for women of color, and there's a lot
of like be grateful even if you're treated like shit
(31:23):
or whatever it is, which is this is not it right,
But this is saying and the research behind saying like
slowing down again and saying like, but what are the
things I do have? Like what are the things that
do give my life meaning and joy? Like?
Speaker 3 (31:38):
What do I need to do be doing more? Off
right to.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Engage in those practices of joy and gratitude? And for me,
that has been again really powerful and most of the time,
and again in a capitalistic, hyper capitalistic, in a competitive society,
it's like, oh, well, then the way I deal with
it is I should be on like this amazing vacation
in Italy where I'm drinking wine and whatever it is,
(32:04):
like so and so, rather than understanding that a lot
of times the real joy and the real gratitude can
come from things like can I write about this in
the book, like middle of the Summer, Peaches in Seattle
like magic? And I actually would say, like in being
able to ground yourself in those moments and be really present,
Like that's how we navigate a lot of these bigger
(32:27):
That's how we build that reserve inside, how we navigate
these bigger, huge challenges that we're facing.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Hey, ba, fam, we got to take a quick break,
pay some bills, and we'll be right back. As I
was reading the book, and I loved I talked to
you about this before. I love that you focus on
rest and taking care of yourself and getting off that
hamster wheel, but like really doing good things for your body.
(32:55):
It resonates with me so much because and I haven't
talked about this on the show, and I might cry
to try not to please, I have not been able
to sleep for like six months. I have sleep apnea.
I have I've had this like of this, like really,
you know, intense anxieties come roaring back, and you know,
(33:16):
I'm like trying to work my way through it, and
I'm getting my medical health that I need. But everything
feels so much harder when you're not in a rested,
like cared for state. And I just want to talk
about I want you to talk about that. It's all
I can shut up and get out of my emotions
for a second. But how much easier it is to
(33:39):
live these values and to like think this way when
we're actually like okay and taking care of ourselves to
start with, how much harder it is when we're not
able to It's it sucks. I have no other way
of saying it.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
I'm so sorry, and I feel it in my body.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
I mean, items sleep well for years on end and
got the help I needed and in mostly a manageable place.
It's never like knockout cold for nine hours that like
the body now needs that. Science now proves you know
that we in our communities I think inherently knew, but
capitalism was like no competition was like look, sleep when
(34:21):
you're dead and all of these terrible.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Things. I look, I think that.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
It is really a radical act of resistance for us
to choose rust and embodiment. And of course, the great
Trisha Hersey had this in her book Rest as Resistance.
I write about how reading her book, around the time
I came out with the idea, like came out, like
where the idea of uncompete solidified, was around the time
I actually read rest as Resistance because I was just like, yes, like,
(34:54):
what is happening is disproportionately women of color are being
forced to like not rest because of all these horrible
stereotypes like being lazy or being left behind or not
like working hard enough or not being good enough. But
that is just not the way that we're going to
(35:14):
like be able to like we literally will lose the
ability to stay on in the fight, like be in
the long term fight and in the long term community,
if we're burning ourselves out, if we're running ourselves to
the ground. So I would say rest is one of
the most being in an embodiment.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Practice for yourself.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
And that does mean I mean that is meant that
I have turned down opportunities so that I can make
sure I build and rest. You know, I've turned down
travel opportunities because I have prioritized my health. I have
and you know, and these are newer things. I mean
until very recently in some ways, until I wrote the book,
(35:57):
and that those chapters where I was like a be
a hypocrite now and like run myself ragged when I'm
telling people like to uncompete. But it's been life changing
and I think what it did, and speaking often as
a business owner who literally my business inquiries and I
and you know, I talked to the New York Times
about this. I was nervous about it, but I decided
(36:19):
to go ahead. And I hope people understand, like I
had an eighty percent drop in business inquiries between twenty
twenty four and twenty twenty five and the same one year,
like in a one year period, and I'm sure that's
even more now if I I didn't do the maths
after that, but the rest and embodiment practices that I
(36:41):
had built. I went and got a yoga you know,
teacher certification. I don't teach. It was for myself, but
so much of the certification I got and the teacher
I trained under was around the philosophy of why yoga
came about right the ancient sense and made the trus.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
That have kind of led us to where we are.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
That said, like you you know your body is worthy
the way that.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
It is you're you.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
You know, there's a concept called mudita and in sort
of vasic sensekric traditions, which is like again, like have
joy for other successes, because what's made for you isn't
like going to not come for you like you will
get you will get it. And I think that could
only come like dealing with such a huge loss in
(37:31):
my business and dealing with so much of stress around
like how do I like, how do I like get
creative and make sure that the people who depend on
me to employ them, you know, don't lose their livelihood.
It came from like it came from a place of
like deep like knowing and embodiment of like this is
(37:52):
how we're going to navigate these times. And if I
think I had tried to navigate those times with like
stress and anxiety and running myself ragged, I don't think
I would be able to get to this place of
where I am right now.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Yeah, it can feel like the answer to some sort
of challenge is action, and it's so damn hard to
remind yourself that sometimes in action or like I mean,
rest is in action. But like stepping away from it,
focusing on yourself makes you stronger and more ready to
(38:27):
tackle whatever that challenge is.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
And to take strategic action, right, Like there is action
you take because you're like, oh, like I'm spinning, I'm
throwing everything on the wall and hoping something will stick
to like, know, here are like three things that I
can reasonably do without burning out to try and navigate
(38:49):
these times, you know, and these are like what makes
the most strategic sense and what is the best use
of my time? And in being able to like kind
of lead with that again, even for my own business,
I was able to be like, Okay, here are the
salaries that we definitely need no matter what, how are
we going to make that work?
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Right?
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Like, here are things that were wonderful and lovely, and
I wish I could keep those going. Here's what needs
to get cut right, and I think you can only
if you do that from a place of like calm
and a place of like rest, then you make better decisions.
There's research behind that too, And if you come in
from a place of like the sky is falling. Everything
(39:30):
stressful you're going to make You're just not going to
make good decisions. And that's the reality, and especially in
these moments, we need to a lot of the decisions
we make now is going to be what helps us
in our careers and in our businesses and as women
and as mothers like that. There are many micro decisions
that we're making now that will have a larger impact
(39:53):
in years to come, because you know, the pendulum is
definitely swinging back. Oh obviously, I'm scared and fearful of
what we're losing in the pendulum swing so far one way.
It is of course going to swing back. There'll be
a lot of collateral damage. But this is how we
build resourves for that moment too well.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
We survived the financial crisis. Look at us now, Look
at it now. I also was a newly new graduate
in nine trying to make my way. These things that
alter us, like fundamentally the way that we're wired and
when we move, it's like it's very very toxic. We
think we're comparing ourselves to the hottest bombshell on Love Island,
(40:31):
but really it's like it's that version of me from
a year or two ago. Yeah, Yeah, romanticizing that version. Yeah,
because that ever come up with you or did it
come up for you in this work at all? Two
when you were putting the book together.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
All the time. I mean okay, So two things. One
is thank you for that. And I do want to
say someday like I would I write about Lakita Williams.
I'm going to have her at my launch event in Seattle,
going to be on stage with me. She's my business
coach and a dear friend who told me and talked
to me about spoon theory and as someone you know
(41:08):
she identifies as a badass entrepreneur who has a chronic
health condition. Lakita really talked to me about like spoon
theory and the idea that like not everyone has the
same hours in a day, right, and it's less about
hours and more about energy and if you have chronic
illness or disability, like in the disability just as community,
(41:31):
there is this concept of like you have your energy
is a finite amount of spoons, So how are you
going to kind of and what could take you know,
one spoon of energy today? I e. You know, getting
out of bed and having a shower tomorrow could take
four spoons and then you only have you know, a
remaining number of spoons left. So I have to say, like,
(41:53):
what one of the most pernicious challenges of competition is
this idea that like you have to compare yourself and
you have to immediately rank yourself, and then you feel terrible,
and it sometimes often immobilizes you to then even get
back on your feet because you feel so terrible. So
I want to say that I have to say for me,
(42:14):
the big comparison thing. I mean, I'm living through it
right now. I can't like when you are a second
time author or I mean typically like technically I'm a
third time author, but my first book was like basically
self published, so let's say second time traditionally published author.
It's super hard not to be like, oh, but the
last time that version of me when when I launched
(42:38):
my book, like this is this happened? That didn't happen
this time. I've already had a couple of things happen
even before the book came out that like worked for
the last launch and didn't didn't come through for this one,
for example. And it's really hard not to be like, oh,
it's because I'm not good enough, or like that version
of me was great and worked so much harder, but
this version of me, because of the rest and all
(42:59):
of that, hasn't, you know, achieved the same results. And
it's really easy to fall into that comparison with you,
you know, with yourself or an earlier version of yourself.
And again in those moments like being able to like
really sit down and ground and like what did work out?
Like what are you grateful for this moment that did
(43:20):
work out? The level of community building Mandy this time
around with uncompete it like it that brings tears to
my eyes. I don't care that like so and so
publication or so and so expert or so and so podcast.
Although I would have felt very upset if Brown Ambition
didn't have me back, so I.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
Will, I would have been upset.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
That was a huge win. It was a huge win.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
And I remember it so clearly because the first time
that I came on, like Stacy Abrams had been on
like a couple of weeks ago, and I was like,
what just happened? And this time around you had Zarna
Gargo a few months ago, and I was like, what
has just happened, Like how can I follow this person,
you know, like in the same podcast, and then you
(44:07):
know you of course, and I and I have to say,
like I think it's again, it's very easy. You know,
we think competition, we think competition is about the best
person winning. When you actually peel it back, competition is
about the person who best fits in to an already
defined standard and mold. So there's a part of you
(44:30):
that has to be very okay with saying like I
don't fit into the mold, Like I know, I don't
fit into any mold or any defined standards of success.
So then what are my definitions of success? Like what
are my definitions of me winning at life? Because I
don't want to like conform to the standard which anyway
(44:50):
wasn't built with me in mind.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Yeah, it's about like when the the more you know
yourself and like the deeper your well of self love goes,
and like so acceptance. It makes the uncompete so much
easier because you really like you can self identify what's
for you and what's not for you and what's a
good fit. Even with the show, I mean, there's other
(45:14):
there's tons of other podcasts, right, and I'll see so
and so it's got this book and they're on that episode,
and I love this person, but is that the right
fit for Brown Ambition and for our audience? And you know,
so I've had I'll stop myself from chasing down a
lead for a certain person or certain whatever, and it's
just like, oh wait, girl, you're losing sight again. I'll
(45:35):
just bring it on back, bring it back to your focus.
And that's why, of course it's an easy yes for
someone like you to be on the show. I mean,
you are Brown Ambition personified.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
And I just want to add one more quick thing
with that. I just want to say so much that
like your community like is just really powerful and I'm
glad you're not you know podcast A and B and
C and D, like, this is a really special community
for a reason, and I'm I would be I would
(46:10):
not want you to lose this beautiful community if you
because you chased and became ABCD like that's not any great.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
Yeah, hey, Sam, you're my boss. Tell me how I'm
doing want you and you don't like thanks for saying that. Well,
I want to wrap things up by just again congratulating
you on the book and just to say that I've
been waiting for months, ever since I kind of knew
(46:41):
the book was happening, and before I even launched this
new sort of initiative under Brown Ambition, I've just been
waiting to tell you that I'm going to make Uncompete
my book club selection for November. Yeah. Brown Ambision book Club,
we are going to be scooping out for our copies
(47:04):
of Uncompete. She is the and you know it's kind
of off of my Bob. I've been doing like a
bi monthly book club. Pick your book doesn't come out
until November, but I don't really care because I can
make the system and break it. But Uncompete is going
to be our November December book club pick.
Speaker 3 (47:19):
Y'all stop, yay, I don't have works.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Oh my god, we did it, Joe, You're the best.
We love you. You're not really getting emotions, top it.
It's that important of a message. We need this book.
It's so the opposite of what everything else is telling
(47:49):
us right now. It has to just it just feels right.
You know, it's not going to be about you know,
picking a book. That's going to be like we're going
to invest more and work harder and work smarter and
be more productive. And here's how you're going to use
AI to change your career. No, it's like this book
is the answer. I feel like it's how are we
going to take a breath? How are we going to
(48:10):
stop comparing ourselves? How are we going to reach toward
each other? Start building community, you know, harnessing joy, all
these concepts that just feel like they don't have a
place in this America that we're in right now. I
feel like this is an act of resistance to say, no,
this is a book that we're going to read as
a community. BA fan and I'm just so proud. I'm
(48:31):
so proud to have it on our shelves.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
I mean I'm speechless, I fake speechless.
Speaker 3 (48:38):
Actually, thank you s something. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
I mean I don't have words because it's been so
it's been so hard to push in this moment, you know,
and I know, I know we have each other, and
I know we're all doing this in our own ways,
but thank you. This level of support is like, it's
(49:07):
it's transformational.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
What is it?
Speaker 1 (49:10):
Like?
Speaker 3 (49:11):
What happens right?
Speaker 1 (49:12):
Like?
Speaker 2 (49:12):
What competition does is it has so many of us
believing that we not only are we not worthy? But
like that nobody has our back. But that's what I'm
competing is about, like you, you are showing time and
again that actually there are people who have your back.
Speaker 3 (49:31):
You're not alone. So thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
You're absolutely not alone. And it's just good vibes coming
right back at you, you know, And I'm really grateful
for our friendship and the support that you've shown the
show and me and you know, you know you'll be
getting you'll be getting my my panic emails coming soon.
Speaker 3 (49:53):
And bringing them on.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
It is my third manuscript, yeah, track, I've written about
seventy five books at this point.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
I know it's really hard.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
What you're doing is like it's the hardest part right well,
because the other part's going to come a little easier
to you that than it does to me, which is
the sort.
Speaker 3 (50:15):
Of like talking about the book and being like, I
love you.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
Know, I'm an extrovert, I think, but I also like
get very like podcasts make me very like nervous, so
I have to like get myself ready for it, which
you are natural at. But this is the hardest part
apart from that. So you're in it, but you're not alone.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
You're doing great sweetie, you're doing amazing and I can't
wait to add the book. You know, as I've been
writing my book, when I go to the library, I'll
make a little stack, an emotional support stack of books
that I pull off the shelf, just like by other
women of color, usually in the business category. And it's
just like and I think if each book was just
a person typing away at their computer in the dark
(50:57):
and they got their book done. And I'm going to
add you your book right on top of that stack.
I can't wait again. Brand Ambition. The book is called Uncompete,
Rejecting Competition to Unlock Success by my extraordinary guest Rachika T. Malhotra.
Congratulation on congratulations on the book and much success. And
(51:18):
I'm going to see you in Brooklyn. Thank We're going
to party.
Speaker 3 (51:22):
Thank you so much, my friend.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
Oh my god, wow, Okayva fan, thank you so much
for listening to this week's show. I want to shout
out to our production team, Courtney, our editor, Carla, our
fearless leader for idea to launch productions. I want to
shout out my assistant Lauda Escalante and Cameron McNair for
(51:46):
helping me put the show together. It is not a
one person project, as much as I have tried to
make it so these past ten years, I need help, y'all,
and thank goodness I've been able to put this team
around me to support me on this. And to y'all,
ba fam, I love you so so so so much.
Please rate review, subscribe, make sure you sign up to
(52:07):
the newsletter to get all the latest updates on upcoming episodes,
our ten year anniversary celebrations to come, and until next time,
Talk to you soon, da guy, hey, ba fam. Let's
be real for a second, and y'all know I keep
it a book. The job market has been brutal, now
not brutal trash, especially for women of color. Over three
(52:30):
hundred thousand of us have disappeared from the workforce this
year alone, and not by choice, but because of layoffs,
disappearing DEI programs, and stagnant wages that keep cutting us
out of opportunity. Our unemployment rate has jumped to over
seven percent, while our pay gap continues to widen. I
know all of that sounds dire, but here's what I
(52:51):
want y'all to know. You do not have to wait
for the system to save you. That's exactly why I
created the Mandy money Makers group coaching community. It is
a coaching community that is built for us by us.
Inside the community, we're not just talking about how to
negotiate or to how to get the job that you want.
It's about finding purpose in your career. It's about finding
(53:13):
communities and others, feeling seen, feeling heard, and also having
a sounding board and a mirror to reflect your own magic,
your own sparkle right back to yourself. In this community,
you'll get group coaching led by me, but you also
get peer to peer accountability with proven tools and resources
that can help you do what we have always done
(53:35):
since rise. Even when the odds are stacked against us,
despite all the challenges, we will rise. If you're interested
in joining the Mandy money Makers community and having that
support to bolster you and help you tap back into
your magic so that you can lead your career with
intention and heart and your own intuition, trusting that again,
(53:58):
please join us. You can find information in the show
notes of today's episodes, or go to mandymoney dot com
slash community. That's Mandy m a n d I money
dot com slash community. I would love to see y'all there.
Enrollment is open, so please go check out mandymoney dot
com slash community today
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com