October 18, 2023 • 36 mins
Burden of Guilt has been turned into a docuseries, now streaming only on Paramount+. Available to watch HERE!
And make sure to binge all episodes of the podcast that inspired the show before you watch!
The loss of her baby brother has haunted Tracyraquel Berns ever since she was 2 years old. Growing up, her questions about her brother’s death were met with beatings from her father. As an adult, Tracyraquel did her own investigation and what she discovered would change everything. It caused a burden that she would carry with her for the rest of her life. That burden of guilt coupled with a nagging suspicion that there was more to the story, led Tracyraquel to revisit her abusive and dysfunctional childhood in a quest for the whole truth. Hosted by Emmy-winning journalist Nancy Glass.
If you would like to reach out to the Burden of Guilt Team, email us at burdenofguiltpod@gmail.com
If you or someone you know is a victim of domestic abuse, please reach out and call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233.
To report a case of child abuse, please contact your local police department or call the Childhelp National Child Abuse Hotline at 1.800.422.4453.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, all, we have some exciting news to share. Paramount
Plus has turned Burden of Guilt into a docuseries. You
will get to meet the people involved, You'll hear from
the people who have never spoken before, and you get
to see where the story took place. We are so
proud and excited to share it with you. You can
(00:20):
stream it right now on Paramount Plush. Right next, witness,
please stay called Tracy Rain. You raise your right hand
from You're listening to a trial which took place in
(00:41):
nineteen ninety seven. A beautiful twenty seven year old blonde
woman named Tracy raimes on the stand.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Because you pull a microphone just over the closer to you.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Hi, good O. You said you live in Savannah.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Do you have any children?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yes? I do? How many children?
Speaker 1 (00:57):
I have two children. Tracy was impeccably dressed with perfectly
quaffed hair, but her appearance was deceiving. She grew up
on the poverty line and was exposed to extreme abuse.
The prosecutor asked why she had worked so hard to
see this case brought to trial. It was a search
for truth.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I realized that something bad had happened, and it was
to correct that bad.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Thing, A bad thing did happen. When she was just two,
Tracy Riquel's brother Matthew died. He was only four months old.
There were many accounts as to what occurred, but her
family chucked it up to a tragedy and life moved on.
(01:45):
So what was your brother's death? Described as? What did
they tell you?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
So? When I was growing up, I was always told
that Matthew died at crib death, that he slipped between
the bars and fell on the floor. I had this
idea of what I thought I knew. I was twenty five.
I had finally gotten the records sent to me.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
These were the hospital records from the day of his death.
They contained all the details she was desperate to know.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I remember waiting for those documents on a daily basis.
It was a bright sunny day. I was downstairs in
the living room. I had to get them open as
fast as I could, and that's when the world caved
(02:38):
in around me. I wasn't prepared for what they said.
It states child was thrown from crib. My sister, Oh,
hold on, did I do this? Is this everybody trying
to protect me?
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Imagine just imagine seeing a report that says you were
the reason someone died. Tercy Riquel is a kind and
caring person. She couldn't picture hurting a baby ever, even
by accident. Yet there it was, in black and white.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Child drawn from crib.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
My sister Tracy saw in writing that she had thrown
her little brother out of his crib? Was that true?
Could she have done this or did something much more
sinister happen? My name is Nancy Glass. I'm an investigative reporter.
I've covered some of the most notorious crimes in US history.
(03:43):
I've interviewed Jeffrey Dahmer in prison. I practically lived at
the courthouse for a year covering the OJ Simpson trial.
But even after being close to evil time after time,
this is the story that has affected me more than
any other. This is Burden of Guilt, Episode one, Age
(04:07):
of Innocence. Tracy changed her name several years back to
Tracy Riquel, so you will hear her referred to as
both Tracy and Tercy Riquel in this podcast, especially since
many of the people we speak to remember her from
her younger years. I'll explain why she made that change
(04:28):
later in the series, but out of respect for her,
I will only refer to her as Tracy Riquel from
here on out. This series talks about crime, domestic abuse,
and homicide, but it's so much more than a true
crime story. It's a real account of survival, resilience, and justice.
(04:49):
It's taken us two years to put it together because
it's that hard, it's that dramatic, and most importantly, it's
taken twenty five years for Tracy Riquel to be able
to tell her story. I went to see her at
her home in Colorado. She lives on a heavily protected
military base. We sat outside, so it's a little noisy.
(05:13):
Do you just sit and enjoy the few.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I can only see the very top of it from
my house, but I'm under Shyanne Mountain, you know wargames,
the movie Nora At That's where we are. It's all
beautiful there.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
This place has everything her soul needs, peace, tranquility and
beauty and a garden. But there's also everything her head needs. Fences,
uniforms and protection.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I mean those are yeah, that's just the little pilot's
training over there at the Air Force Condemy.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Really, yeah, that's them.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
That's their touch and goes.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Tercy Riquelt is a veteran. She served in the Army
for two years. She has lived all over Hawaii, Colorado, Alabama,
different states, cities and bases. To her home is where
her family is. She's a wife, a mother, and a grandmother.
Against all odds, she has created a stable and comfortable
(06:11):
life for herself and her family with her husband, Bart,
who is still on active duty.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Because I'm with him, I don't feel terrified. I don't
feel as vulnerable. I feel safe. I guess that's the
easiest way to say it, right, Yeah, I feel safe.
I think we're that coupled now that when you see
pictures of us, we've start to look like each other,
like people look like their dogs. Sometimes are their dogs
look like them? And then you see people, I think
that's where we are, and you've got to the same
(06:38):
little querks. Now.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
I love hearing the way she talks about her husband.
It's really special. When I see her life in Colorado
and hear about her family. It makes me smile because
the odds were so stacked against her.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
If I decide something's gonna be, something's gonna be. I'm
a pretty annoyingly tenacious If I believe something has to happen,
that it's going to happen.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Well, that's the theme of all of this, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah, Yeah, I guess it is.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Before I went to Colorado, I had been fascinated by
Tracy Roquel's story for almost a decade. A few years
ago we started corresponding, and I have spent the last
four years getting to know her. We come from such
different backgrounds, yet we do have so much in common,
like our love for gardening and poodles and cooking and
(07:31):
our kids. Of course, Tracy Riquel is in a safe
place now and any pain is well hidden, but her
road was a long and difficult one. Now at times
the story can be difficult to hear, but please stick
with me. After seeing hospital records that said Tracy Riquel
(07:52):
was responsible for her four month old baby brother's death,
it was a reckoning. The night Matthew died also happens
to be her very first memory.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
At the time. I didn't understand what all the lights
and sirens are, and I don't really have a memory
of an emotional state at that point, just asking what
they were doing. Were you scared? I was terrified.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
She has flashbacks some images of herself in a car.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I remember it being a dark green el Camino. I
remember standing up in the seat with my arms around
that headrest and looking around at all the sirens everywhere,
and Jan saying they're trying to help Matthew.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Jan Is Jan Barry Sablin, Tracy Riquel's father. Matthew, a
four month old baby, was hurt and needed serious medical attention.
Journalist Jill Jordan Cedar explains how the sequence of events
started with Tracy, Raquel and her mother.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
That day, Kathy and Tracy went on an errand Jan
was at home babysitting little Matthew. When they return, Jan
came to the door, blocked her entry, and asked her
to retrieve something from the car. Kathy did that and
Tracy went inside the apartment. When Cathy comes back, she
(09:23):
goes into the bedroom finds Tracy in the crib, Matthew
on the floor, eyes out of focus, looking in a
world of trouble. At that point, j says that Tracy
has caused Matthew to fall out of the crib, hit
(09:43):
his head and is really chastising Tracy. Jan spanks Tracy
and scolds her for what she's just done. Cathy said, look,
there's something wrong with Matthew. We've got to get him
to the emergency room and they leave.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
They raised the baby to North Side Hospital. The staff
took X rays and realized he needed more care than
they could provide. He was transferred by ambulance to the
Cab Medical Center. As Matthew was evaluated, extended family began
to gather outside the hospital. Kathy's sisters and grandparents hovered
(10:23):
close by Uncle butch Jan's older brother paced in the
parking lot.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
He said, I arrived at the emergency room and you
were sitting on a concrete slab where ambulances pull up.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Little Tracy Riquel had no idea what was going on,
but Matthew was in dire condition. He had extensive skull fractures,
brain bruising, and his pupils were fixed and dilated. Doctors
felt they needed to perform surgery to give him a
chance to survive. Kathy signed the paperwork giving permission, but
(11:00):
it was of no use. Before midnight, Matthew died. Racy
Riquell lost her baby brother. The next paper Kathy would
sign would be a release for the county coroner to
perform an autopsy and permission for Matthew's body to be
sent to a funeral home, but after he died, Matthew
(11:23):
just wasn't mentioned much. Tracy Riquel, of course, was always
aware of him because of the memories of that night,
but the family didn't do much to keep his memory
alive or to memorialize him. You told me a story
about a very scary car ride when you were a
little kid. Will you tell that story?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
I mean, I was seven. I was in the car
with Kathy and she said, day after tomorrow is Matthew's birthday.
And I just had this child like remark of you
don't take me to the cemetery of everyday speak to
you. It's funny. I can remember exactly where we were on
the road and next to the highway. And her reaction
(12:08):
was shocked.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Shocked about what that you would even mention him.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
You're exactly right. Her and Jan were together then, and
she went home and had a complete fit. She told Jan,
and he beat me terribly. He really enjoyed the belt,
the wrong end of the belt.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
He beat you with a belt. Yes.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
He wanted to ensure that I didn't talk about Matthew
again to her, so I didn't.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Although she was too young to articulate a desire to
honor her brother. She craved a connection her father. Jan
wasn't interested in the least except in teaching her a lesson.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
And I guess some people think we all got whoopings
with belts back in the day or whatever. But it
wasn't like that. It wasn't disciplined. It was don't ever
talk about this kid, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
And all this time we've been talking, you have never
referred to Kathy and Jan as mom and dad. Why not?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
I don't think genetics makes you a parent, So now
I don't refer to them as a mother and a father.
They weren't that. They weren't parents to me. They were monstrous.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Tracy Riquel's parents had a long, complicated relationship dating back
to their childhoods. Jan Barry Sandlin and Kathy Ahman had
grown up into Cab County, Georgia. Even decades later, Kathy
would admit she had been in love with Jan since
she was twelve years old. One look at Jan's teenage
(13:57):
photo you could see something in him. Confidence maybe, or
maybe over confidence is more like it. He had a
handsome face in charisma even as a teenager. Reporter Jill
Jordan cedar.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Jan and Kathy had known each other for a long time,
since sixth and seventh grade, through elementary school into high school.
She found him charming. He was a cutup, sort of
the class clown. He was very popular, very mischievous, had
a lot of the girls after him, and she was
(14:32):
one of them.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Jackie Wilson knew Jan Sandland's family growing up. A few
of her girlfriends had crushes on him in school.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Jan didn't mind showing how much he cared about somebody
whenever he did care for but he was also demanding
and domineering and expected whatever he stand to go.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
In the early nineteen seventies, it wasn't unusual for couples
to get married right after high school. Although Jan and
Kathy eventually married, they took a circuitous route with other
partners first. Now, this is going to be tricky, so
if you're multitasking, and I know I do that when
I listened to podcasts, lean in for this. In high school,
(15:17):
Kathy wanted to be with Jan.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
He came from a bad name, bad family, so she
wasn't allowed to be with him.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
But obviously she found a way because when she was fifteen,
she became pregnant by Jan and her mother found out.
You told me about something very traumatic that happened to
Kathy around that time.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
What was it? Her mother, my grandmother told her that
someone was going to come and just check to make
sure that the baby and the pregnancy was okay, and
the woman I actually came to do an illegal abortion.
They didn't tell her what was going on.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Since Kathy was forbidden to date Jan, she found another
boy with a better reputation Publicly.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
She dated this really nice boy, Ted Golder through high school,
but at the same time, she was seeing Jan on
the side the whole time. And then when Ted was drafted,
she found out she was pregnant with me. She was
in the army, and then he went off to war.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Despite her marriage to Ted, Kathy still carried a torch
for Jan and continued to see him on the side.
How did Kathy ultimately end her relationship with Ted.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
She had sent him a Dear John letter while he
was deployed over in Vietnam saying, this is not your child,
It's Jane's child. I don't love you, I'm in love
with him.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
And it was true. Kathy wanted Jan, and she knew
the baby wasn't Ted's Ted was willing to forgive Kathy
and raise the baby with her, but Kathy wasn't interested.
That baby was Tracy Riquel. Soon after, however, Kathy found
out that Jan married another woman, a pretty brunette named
(17:10):
Nancy Tikeeter. With Jan now married, Kathy reconciled with Ted,
and during that reconciliation they conceived Matthew. Just a month
after Matthew's birth, Jan's wife, Nancy, tragically committed suicide, and
suddenly Kathy's true love was free. It was only weeks
(17:32):
after Nancy's death before Jan found comfort with Kathy, who
had open arms waiting. Ted Golder was forgotten and Jan
moved in with Kathy, Tracy Riquel, and baby Matthew. They
lived together as a family.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
They were on some honeymoon phase for two days, and
then there was enormous amounts of violence.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
The house was chaos. There was drug abuse and booze.
Jackie Wilson saw the debauchery firsthand.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
I know for a fact that Jan sniff BLEUW because
I sain it with my own eyes that I know.
I know that he took pills, but I don't know
what kind of pills. I know he drank alcohol like
it was water.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
It was no longer a charming teenage romance. The couple's
attachment evolved into a rough adult relationship, and Tracy Riquel
was exposed to most of it.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
I remember Jan and Kathy were at Jan's mother's apartment
and there was this huge domestic situation that was going on.
She was screaming bloody murder and he was beating her up,
and his mother was yelling at her.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
And where were you?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I was sitting outside and there were people walking on
the sidewalk across the street, looking and obviously taking notice.
Nobody did anything.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Keep in mind Tracy Raquel was observing these acts a
small child.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
She would put her through horrible beatings and rapes, but
she would say, it's the love of my life. It's
loved my life. It was one of these things that
I didn't understand.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
But she had something inside her that was very strong.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
Even measures buttons and makes buttonholes.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
She found ways to seek refuge from the toxic, dysfunctional
environment that surrounded her.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Here's the story.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
To quiet the noise, just be a kid.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
I would get two cookies in milk and I could
watch the Brady Bunch.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yes, She watched the family all of America embraced, and
she dreamed, it.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Is escape watching that family work. It was hope. It
was hopeful, That's what it was. It was hopeful.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Despite her escapism, Tracy Roquel was haunted by the loss
of her baby brother. He was a ghost, an ever
present ghost. Let me describe him to you. I'm looking
at a photo of him at four months old. He's
wearing a blue pinafore with a white starched collar. He's
(20:20):
got a little tuft of hair on top of his head,
and he has this wide eyed look. There's baby fat.
The little ones start getting wrinkles around the wrists and
folds around the neck. He was adorable. Tracy Roquel didn't
(20:41):
attend Matthew's funeral, but relatives shared details with her over
the years.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Matthew was buried in Alabama. Our family is stretched from
Alabama to Georgia, so with a lot of people. I
was told that the procession from the chair to the
grave side for Matthew, that Kathy and Jan were in
the hearse.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
They did say that the vault that Matthew was in
was iron coffin, that Jan had paid for.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
The funeral was strange. Jan and Kathy displayed odd behavior
on the way to the cemetery on what should have
been one of the hardest and most painful days of
their lives.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
They pulled into McDonald's and went and through a drive.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Through to order food in the middle of being in
a funeral procession. Yes, their dead baby lay in a
coffin in the back of their car, but that didn't
stop them.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
And they pulled over and stopped and ate before they
proceeded to the graveside to barry Matthew.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
What was your family's reaction to that?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
It was explained to me that everybody was just mortified.
Grandmothers and great grandmothers and aunts were just sobbing in tears.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
After matthew death, Kathy couldn't cope.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Kathy's attempted to aside. A couple of months after Matthew died.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
She took Tracy Raquel onto the balcony of their apartment
and then, right in front of her own two year
old child, Kathy climbed up on the railing and jumped
jumped right off the two story balcony.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
She said she sat me there so that the police
would find me. I think she broke both legs in
both arms.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
It was only two floors, so Kathy survived, but was
badly injured, immobilized. Jan couldn't be counted on, and Tracy Raquel,
a toddler, was thrust into the caretake a role. It
was mind blowing.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
I remember days later she was on the couch in
this pretty much full body cast, yelling at me, telling
me how to scramble eggs. So that's the first time
I scrambled eggs because she didn't do it.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Can you imagine scrambling eggsit two? It's hard to fathom.
Kathy became more dependent on Tracy Riquel for other adult
tasks as well.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
I was buying cigarettes for her when I was five, all.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
By yourself as a little kid. Why do you think
she did that.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Your electricity gets hut off or your water gets cut off,
and you send your child to stand in line with
a bunch of adults who are paying their bills because
you don't have enough courage to stand in there and
pay her own white bill.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Kathy didn't want to stand in line because her bills
were being paid late. That's why she sent her daughter
to do it. I have this image of this little
blonde child reaching up to a cashier with a money
order and then asking in a tiny voice, please can
I have a pack of Virginia Slims. It all feels surt.
(23:57):
As time went on, life presumed. Nobody seemed to talk
much about what happened to Matthew. He was just there
one day and then he wasn't. A few years after
Matthew died, Kathy and Jan had another son. He was
named Jason. Tracy Raquel had a new, younger brother, but
(24:20):
another baby in the house did nothing to quell the violence.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
I guess chaotic people do chaotic things, so lots of
violence and abuse. We would be settled somewhere from the
time I was a little child, and he would just
show up in the middle of the night and throw
us on the street.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Where would you guys go?
Speaker 2 (24:41):
We spent lots of time just sleeping on a park
bench just wherever. One time, I think I was seven
or so, he showed up in the middle of the
night and beat the door down and beat her up
really bad, and took Jason.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
But Tracy Riquel could hardly look to her mom for comfort.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Kathy was equally as bad as Jan, just in a
different way.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
In what way.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
I was in the first grade and got gom in
my hair. Her answer to that was just to shave
my head and then send me to school.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Wow, that story hit me in the gut. And when
Tercy Raquel first told me this, my thought was, didn't
anybody else notice or try to intervene.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
My aunt Jane is Kathy's older sister. She's the oldest
of the five of them. It's my understanding that she
and my grandfather tried very desperately to take me away
from Kathy shortly after Matthew died. The system just wouldn't
allow it. So I think you do what you can
(25:49):
do when you can, and that's what they did.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
But her family was also fearful of offering shelter to Kathy.
They believed Kathy would always take Jan back and they
would put themselves in harm's way for nothing. No one
wanted to be on the receiving end of Jan's rage,
only to find Kathy back in the same situation days later.
When Jan threw Kathy and the two kids on the street,
(26:14):
she would take the kids two motels and then Jan
would show up. It was a cycle. So as a child,
Tracy Riquel was basically homeless. Her life was completely erratic,
going through her day avoiding what emotional or physical landmind
(26:34):
she could step on. Next, her mother was beaten down,
broken and her dad well, there was another side to
Jan Sandlin that I haven't shared yet. Her father was
involved in criminal activity.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
He was connected to an organized crime group in the South.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
She was even a witness to some of it.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
I must before. At the time, I remember for all
of these men being in this apartment living room and
they were making a plan. There were guns everywhere, and
they were getting ready to do something.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Jan was focused on the task at hand, and when
Kathy objected, Jan got her out of his way.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
They had a protest about something, and he locked her
in a tiny little closet while they went did their
I don't know, robbery, whatever they were doing.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
How long was she stuck in there?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
She would be able to tell you how many hours
she stayed in that closet, but a long time. And
there was also this this Cat County police officer was
murdered and Kathy said, yeah, he killed that police officer.
She didn't even know his name.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
There were rumors that Jan was involved in the murder
of the officer. Only twenty four years old. The young
police officer had been shot execution style while working at
a part time security job.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
But Kathy said he killed that police officer and then
we drove to Alabama and for the Guynilite.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
I'll tell you more about his story later in the series.
It seems like there was never a moment of stability.
Tracy Riquel has vivid memories of Jan breaking into the
house and kidnapping her and Jason as a way to
get a Kathy. Jan had a special affinity for Jason
(28:23):
because he knew for certain that Jason was his son.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
I believe that Jan is the personality type that's very primal.
I only take care of my own, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
In Jane's mind, Tracy Riquel's paternity was a little more
dubious considering the overlapping relationships Kathy had with Jan and
her first husband, Ted Gold. But Tracy Riquel was useful
to Jan in one way, used her to look after
her younger brother. She has a memory that plays almost
(28:59):
like a short film. In her mind. Jan had kidnapped
her and her brother Jason.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
When it was time for Jason to take a nap,
he would put us both in there and we would
take a nap, and I had this little girl, and
she knew what was going on. She knew that he
had kidnapped us or taken us, that this was a
violent situation.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
The little neighbor girl started coming to the bedroom window
every day at lunchtime to try and help Tracy, Raquel
and Jason escape.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
And I would be like, okay, I can do this.
I could pick him up and hand him down there.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Did you have a plan.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
This place was at the end of the decab airport
and my uncle Steve worked at the airport. I just
thought if I took get him out, I could run him.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Down this rudway and we'd be fought.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
But I was so afraid I was going to hurt him.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
She had already lost her younger brother, Matthew. She couldn't
bear the thought of doing anything that would harm Jason.
We tried every day for about two weeks, and then
what happened.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
The police came. One day, This nice policewoman came and
took my hand and he was arrested and off we went.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
It sounds like a disconnect, but here's what happened. The
police showed up because justice had finally caught up with
Jan in the spring of nineteen eighty one, ten years
after Jan and Kathy got together. He was going to prison.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
He drove to Panama City committed armed robbery and a
gas station or comedience or something like that, and then
got into a shootout on Panama City Beach with the
Panama City Police Department, and then he was arrested and
sentenced in Florida. And I understand it was like twenty
five to life.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
He had done time for crimes like forgery and breaking
and entering, but this conviction would be the one to
put him out of their lives.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
I thought for sure everything was going to be great.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Life would be great without jam.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Sometimes you just don't see the forest for the trees.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Kathy didn't physically abuse Tracy Riquel, but the relationship was
broken dysfunctional. Kathy was a battered woman and couldn't see
much beyond her own pain to offer any love or
comfort to her daughter.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
When I was fourteen years old, I was very ill
and ended up in the hospital and they diagnosed me
with a seizure disorder.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
It was just done. What did you mean you were done?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
There was no way out. There's nowhere to go. I
just really didn't want to be in that environment. I
didn't know how to get out. There was just not help.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
So she saved thirty days of a medication tagridol, an
anti convulsiant drug, and she took it all at once.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
At the time, I thought I'd be with Matthew, or
I'd be in some better place. He's kind of hokey now,
but at the time it seemed like there was probably
something far better than what was going on.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
She figured a month's worth of the tablets would have
been enough to kill her, and it should have.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
I woke up to Kathy standing over me, shaking my face, saying,
oh my god, what have you done now?
Speaker 1 (32:31):
That is not the reaction you'd expect from a mother
who just discovered her daughter had attempted suicide.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
And all I could think was, Wow, I'm really still here.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
It's remarkable that she survived. Maybe it was luck, maybe
it was fate. Perhaps she was destined for a greater purpose.
There was a lot of wrong at Tracy Raquel's childhood,
enough to break anyone, but for Racy Raquel, her upbringing
only in still build a strong sense of right and
wrong and something with those medical records did not seem right.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
It stays child was thrown from crib by sister. Rather
than just looking at my own abuse and suffering, I
took on this whole full thing. I'm going to find
out what happened to Matthew.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
On the next episode A Burden of Guilt, Tracy Raquel
persuades an investigator to look into Matthew's debt.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
In someone of great important just the child that died.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
It's terrible, yeah, but why would I take it?
Speaker 2 (33:37):
But Tracy said some things that intrigued.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Me, and later this season There's no way in hell
that this child died from being pushed out of a crib.
I'm Nancy Glass. That's all coming up on Burden of Guilt.
Stay tuned for Burden of Guilt, the documentary coming in
twenty twenty four only on Paramount Plus. If you would
(34:03):
like to reach out to the Burden of Guilt team,
email us at Burden of Guiltpod at gmail dot com.
That's Burden of Guilt Pod at gmail dot com. If
you or someone you know is worried about maltreatment or
suspect that a child is being abused or neglected, call
the Child Help National Child Abuse Hotline. You can call
(34:27):
or text one eight hundred four a child that's one
eight hundred four two two four four five three. One
way to show support is by subscribing to our show
on Apple Podcasts and don't forget to rate and review
Burden of Guilt. Five star reviews go a long way.
(34:48):
A big thank you to all of you who are listening,
and also be sure to check us out and follow
us on Instagram at Glass Podcasts, Burden of Guilt is
a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group,
in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is hosted and
executive produced by me Nancy Glass, written and produced by
(35:11):
Carrie Hartman and Andrea Gunning. Also produced by Ben Fetterman
and associate producer Kristin Melchiori. Our iHeart team is Ali
Perry and Jessica Crincheck. Special thanks to Tracy Riquel Burns
and her husband Bart. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio.
(35:32):
Burden of Guilt's theme composed by Oliver Baines. Music library
provided by my Music and For more podcasts from iHeart,
visit the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts, Stay tuned for Burden of Guilt, the documentary,
(35:52):
coming in twenty twenty four and airing only on Paramount
Plus
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Okay,
Hi, all, we have some exciting news to share. Paramount
Plus has turned Burden of Guilt into a docuseries. You
will get to meet the people involved, You'll hear from
the people who have never spoken before, and you get
to see where the story took place. We are so
proud and excited to share it with you. You can
(00:20):
stream it right now on Paramount Plush. Right next, witness,
please stay called Tracy Rain. You raise your right hand
from You're listening to a trial which took place in
(00:41):
nineteen ninety seven. A beautiful twenty seven year old blonde
woman named Tracy raimes on the stand.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Because you pull a microphone just over the closer to you.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Hi, good O. You said you live in Savannah.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Do you have any children?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yes? I do? How many children?
Speaker 1 (00:57):
I have two children. Tracy was impeccably dressed with perfectly
quaffed hair, but her appearance was deceiving. She grew up
on the poverty line and was exposed to extreme abuse.
The prosecutor asked why she had worked so hard to
see this case brought to trial. It was a search
for truth.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I realized that something bad had happened, and it was
to correct that bad.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Thing, A bad thing did happen. When she was just two,
Tracy Riquel's brother Matthew died. He was only four months old.
There were many accounts as to what occurred, but her
family chucked it up to a tragedy and life moved on.
(01:45):
So what was your brother's death? Described as? What did
they tell you?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
So? When I was growing up, I was always told
that Matthew died at crib death, that he slipped between
the bars and fell on the floor. I had this
idea of what I thought I knew. I was twenty five.
I had finally gotten the records sent to me.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
These were the hospital records from the day of his death.
They contained all the details she was desperate to know.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I remember waiting for those documents on a daily basis.
It was a bright sunny day. I was downstairs in
the living room. I had to get them open as
fast as I could, and that's when the world caved
(02:38):
in around me. I wasn't prepared for what they said.
It states child was thrown from crib. My sister, Oh,
hold on, did I do this? Is this everybody trying
to protect me?
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Imagine just imagine seeing a report that says you were
the reason someone died. Tercy Riquel is a kind and
caring person. She couldn't picture hurting a baby ever, even
by accident. Yet there it was, in black and white.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Child drawn from crib.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
My sister Tracy saw in writing that she had thrown
her little brother out of his crib? Was that true?
Could she have done this or did something much more
sinister happen? My name is Nancy Glass. I'm an investigative reporter.
I've covered some of the most notorious crimes in US history.
(03:43):
I've interviewed Jeffrey Dahmer in prison. I practically lived at
the courthouse for a year covering the OJ Simpson trial.
But even after being close to evil time after time,
this is the story that has affected me more than
any other. This is Burden of Guilt, Episode one, Age
(04:07):
of Innocence. Tracy changed her name several years back to
Tracy Riquel, so you will hear her referred to as
both Tracy and Tercy Riquel in this podcast, especially since
many of the people we speak to remember her from
her younger years. I'll explain why she made that change
(04:28):
later in the series, but out of respect for her,
I will only refer to her as Tracy Riquel from
here on out. This series talks about crime, domestic abuse,
and homicide, but it's so much more than a true
crime story. It's a real account of survival, resilience, and justice.
(04:49):
It's taken us two years to put it together because
it's that hard, it's that dramatic, and most importantly, it's
taken twenty five years for Tracy Riquel to be able
to tell her story. I went to see her at
her home in Colorado. She lives on a heavily protected
military base. We sat outside, so it's a little noisy.
(05:13):
Do you just sit and enjoy the few.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I can only see the very top of it from
my house, but I'm under Shyanne Mountain, you know wargames,
the movie Nora At That's where we are. It's all
beautiful there.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
This place has everything her soul needs, peace, tranquility and
beauty and a garden. But there's also everything her head needs. Fences,
uniforms and protection.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I mean those are yeah, that's just the little pilot's
training over there at the Air Force Condemy.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Really, yeah, that's them.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
That's their touch and goes.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Tercy Riquelt is a veteran. She served in the Army
for two years. She has lived all over Hawaii, Colorado, Alabama,
different states, cities and bases. To her home is where
her family is. She's a wife, a mother, and a grandmother.
Against all odds, she has created a stable and comfortable
(06:11):
life for herself and her family with her husband, Bart,
who is still on active duty.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Because I'm with him, I don't feel terrified. I don't
feel as vulnerable. I feel safe. I guess that's the
easiest way to say it, right, Yeah, I feel safe.
I think we're that coupled now that when you see
pictures of us, we've start to look like each other,
like people look like their dogs. Sometimes are their dogs
look like them? And then you see people, I think
that's where we are, and you've got to the same
(06:38):
little querks. Now.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
I love hearing the way she talks about her husband.
It's really special. When I see her life in Colorado
and hear about her family. It makes me smile because
the odds were so stacked against her.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
If I decide something's gonna be, something's gonna be. I'm
a pretty annoyingly tenacious If I believe something has to happen,
that it's going to happen.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Well, that's the theme of all of this, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah, Yeah, I guess it is.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Before I went to Colorado, I had been fascinated by
Tracy Roquel's story for almost a decade. A few years
ago we started corresponding, and I have spent the last
four years getting to know her. We come from such
different backgrounds, yet we do have so much in common,
like our love for gardening and poodles and cooking and
(07:31):
our kids. Of course, Tracy Riquel is in a safe
place now and any pain is well hidden, but her
road was a long and difficult one. Now at times
the story can be difficult to hear, but please stick
with me. After seeing hospital records that said Tracy Riquel
(07:52):
was responsible for her four month old baby brother's death,
it was a reckoning. The night Matthew died also happens
to be her very first memory.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
At the time. I didn't understand what all the lights
and sirens are, and I don't really have a memory
of an emotional state at that point, just asking what
they were doing. Were you scared? I was terrified.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
She has flashbacks some images of herself in a car.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I remember it being a dark green el Camino. I
remember standing up in the seat with my arms around
that headrest and looking around at all the sirens everywhere,
and Jan saying they're trying to help Matthew.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Jan Is Jan Barry Sablin, Tracy Riquel's father. Matthew, a
four month old baby, was hurt and needed serious medical attention.
Journalist Jill Jordan Cedar explains how the sequence of events
started with Tracy, Raquel and her mother.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
That day, Kathy and Tracy went on an errand Jan
was at home babysitting little Matthew. When they return, Jan
came to the door, blocked her entry, and asked her
to retrieve something from the car. Kathy did that and
Tracy went inside the apartment. When Cathy comes back, she
(09:23):
goes into the bedroom finds Tracy in the crib, Matthew
on the floor, eyes out of focus, looking in a
world of trouble. At that point, j says that Tracy
has caused Matthew to fall out of the crib, hit
(09:43):
his head and is really chastising Tracy. Jan spanks Tracy
and scolds her for what she's just done. Cathy said, look,
there's something wrong with Matthew. We've got to get him
to the emergency room and they leave.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
They raised the baby to North Side Hospital. The staff
took X rays and realized he needed more care than
they could provide. He was transferred by ambulance to the
Cab Medical Center. As Matthew was evaluated, extended family began
to gather outside the hospital. Kathy's sisters and grandparents hovered
(10:23):
close by Uncle butch Jan's older brother paced in the
parking lot.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
He said, I arrived at the emergency room and you
were sitting on a concrete slab where ambulances pull up.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Little Tracy Riquel had no idea what was going on,
but Matthew was in dire condition. He had extensive skull fractures,
brain bruising, and his pupils were fixed and dilated. Doctors
felt they needed to perform surgery to give him a
chance to survive. Kathy signed the paperwork giving permission, but
(11:00):
it was of no use. Before midnight, Matthew died. Racy
Riquell lost her baby brother. The next paper Kathy would
sign would be a release for the county coroner to
perform an autopsy and permission for Matthew's body to be
sent to a funeral home, but after he died, Matthew
(11:23):
just wasn't mentioned much. Tracy Riquel, of course, was always
aware of him because of the memories of that night,
but the family didn't do much to keep his memory
alive or to memorialize him. You told me a story
about a very scary car ride when you were a
little kid. Will you tell that story?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
I mean, I was seven. I was in the car
with Kathy and she said, day after tomorrow is Matthew's birthday.
And I just had this child like remark of you
don't take me to the cemetery of everyday speak to
you. It's funny. I can remember exactly where we were on
the road and next to the highway. And her reaction
(12:08):
was shocked.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Shocked about what that you would even mention him.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
You're exactly right. Her and Jan were together then, and
she went home and had a complete fit. She told Jan,
and he beat me terribly. He really enjoyed the belt,
the wrong end of the belt.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
He beat you with a belt. Yes.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
He wanted to ensure that I didn't talk about Matthew
again to her, so I didn't.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Although she was too young to articulate a desire to
honor her brother. She craved a connection her father. Jan
wasn't interested in the least except in teaching her a lesson.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
And I guess some people think we all got whoopings
with belts back in the day or whatever. But it
wasn't like that. It wasn't disciplined. It was don't ever
talk about this kid, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
And all this time we've been talking, you have never
referred to Kathy and Jan as mom and dad. Why not?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
I don't think genetics makes you a parent, So now
I don't refer to them as a mother and a father.
They weren't that. They weren't parents to me. They were monstrous.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Tracy Riquel's parents had a long, complicated relationship dating back
to their childhoods. Jan Barry Sandlin and Kathy Ahman had
grown up into Cab County, Georgia. Even decades later, Kathy
would admit she had been in love with Jan since
she was twelve years old. One look at Jan's teenage
(13:57):
photo you could see something in him. Confidence maybe, or
maybe over confidence is more like it. He had a
handsome face in charisma even as a teenager. Reporter Jill
Jordan cedar.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Jan and Kathy had known each other for a long time,
since sixth and seventh grade, through elementary school into high school.
She found him charming. He was a cutup, sort of
the class clown. He was very popular, very mischievous, had
a lot of the girls after him, and she was
(14:32):
one of them.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Jackie Wilson knew Jan Sandland's family growing up. A few
of her girlfriends had crushes on him in school.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Jan didn't mind showing how much he cared about somebody
whenever he did care for but he was also demanding
and domineering and expected whatever he stand to go.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
In the early nineteen seventies, it wasn't unusual for couples
to get married right after high school. Although Jan and
Kathy eventually married, they took a circuitous route with other
partners first. Now, this is going to be tricky, so
if you're multitasking, and I know I do that when
I listened to podcasts, lean in for this. In high school,
(15:17):
Kathy wanted to be with Jan.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
He came from a bad name, bad family, so she
wasn't allowed to be with him.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
But obviously she found a way because when she was fifteen,
she became pregnant by Jan and her mother found out.
You told me about something very traumatic that happened to
Kathy around that time.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
What was it? Her mother, my grandmother told her that
someone was going to come and just check to make
sure that the baby and the pregnancy was okay, and
the woman I actually came to do an illegal abortion.
They didn't tell her what was going on.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Since Kathy was forbidden to date Jan, she found another
boy with a better reputation Publicly.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
She dated this really nice boy, Ted Golder through high school,
but at the same time, she was seeing Jan on
the side the whole time. And then when Ted was drafted,
she found out she was pregnant with me. She was
in the army, and then he went off to war.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Despite her marriage to Ted, Kathy still carried a torch
for Jan and continued to see him on the side.
How did Kathy ultimately end her relationship with Ted.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
She had sent him a Dear John letter while he
was deployed over in Vietnam saying, this is not your child,
It's Jane's child. I don't love you, I'm in love
with him.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
And it was true. Kathy wanted Jan, and she knew
the baby wasn't Ted's Ted was willing to forgive Kathy
and raise the baby with her, but Kathy wasn't interested.
That baby was Tracy Riquel. Soon after, however, Kathy found
out that Jan married another woman, a pretty brunette named
(17:10):
Nancy Tikeeter. With Jan now married, Kathy reconciled with Ted,
and during that reconciliation they conceived Matthew. Just a month
after Matthew's birth, Jan's wife, Nancy, tragically committed suicide, and
suddenly Kathy's true love was free. It was only weeks
(17:32):
after Nancy's death before Jan found comfort with Kathy, who
had open arms waiting. Ted Golder was forgotten and Jan
moved in with Kathy, Tracy Riquel, and baby Matthew. They
lived together as a family.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
They were on some honeymoon phase for two days, and
then there was enormous amounts of violence.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
The house was chaos. There was drug abuse and booze.
Jackie Wilson saw the debauchery firsthand.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
I know for a fact that Jan sniff BLEUW because
I sain it with my own eyes that I know.
I know that he took pills, but I don't know
what kind of pills. I know he drank alcohol like
it was water.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
It was no longer a charming teenage romance. The couple's
attachment evolved into a rough adult relationship, and Tracy Riquel
was exposed to most of it.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
I remember Jan and Kathy were at Jan's mother's apartment
and there was this huge domestic situation that was going on.
She was screaming bloody murder and he was beating her up,
and his mother was yelling at her.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
And where were you?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I was sitting outside and there were people walking on
the sidewalk across the street, looking and obviously taking notice.
Nobody did anything.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Keep in mind Tracy Raquel was observing these acts a
small child.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
She would put her through horrible beatings and rapes, but
she would say, it's the love of my life. It's
loved my life. It was one of these things that
I didn't understand.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
But she had something inside her that was very strong.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
Even measures buttons and makes buttonholes.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
She found ways to seek refuge from the toxic, dysfunctional
environment that surrounded her.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Here's the story.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
To quiet the noise, just be a kid.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
I would get two cookies in milk and I could
watch the Brady Bunch.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yes, She watched the family all of America embraced, and
she dreamed, it.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Is escape watching that family work. It was hope. It
was hopeful, That's what it was. It was hopeful.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Despite her escapism, Tracy Roquel was haunted by the loss
of her baby brother. He was a ghost, an ever
present ghost. Let me describe him to you. I'm looking
at a photo of him at four months old. He's
wearing a blue pinafore with a white starched collar. He's
(20:20):
got a little tuft of hair on top of his head,
and he has this wide eyed look. There's baby fat.
The little ones start getting wrinkles around the wrists and
folds around the neck. He was adorable. Tracy Roquel didn't
(20:41):
attend Matthew's funeral, but relatives shared details with her over
the years.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Matthew was buried in Alabama. Our family is stretched from
Alabama to Georgia, so with a lot of people. I
was told that the procession from the chair to the
grave side for Matthew, that Kathy and Jan were in
the hearse.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
They did say that the vault that Matthew was in
was iron coffin, that Jan had paid for.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
The funeral was strange. Jan and Kathy displayed odd behavior
on the way to the cemetery on what should have
been one of the hardest and most painful days of
their lives.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
They pulled into McDonald's and went and through a drive.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Through to order food in the middle of being in
a funeral procession. Yes, their dead baby lay in a
coffin in the back of their car, but that didn't
stop them.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
And they pulled over and stopped and ate before they
proceeded to the graveside to barry Matthew.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
What was your family's reaction to that?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
It was explained to me that everybody was just mortified.
Grandmothers and great grandmothers and aunts were just sobbing in tears.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
After matthew death, Kathy couldn't cope.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Kathy's attempted to aside. A couple of months after Matthew died.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
She took Tracy Raquel onto the balcony of their apartment
and then, right in front of her own two year
old child, Kathy climbed up on the railing and jumped
jumped right off the two story balcony.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
She said she sat me there so that the police
would find me. I think she broke both legs in
both arms.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
It was only two floors, so Kathy survived, but was
badly injured, immobilized. Jan couldn't be counted on, and Tracy Raquel,
a toddler, was thrust into the caretake a role. It
was mind blowing.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
I remember days later she was on the couch in
this pretty much full body cast, yelling at me, telling
me how to scramble eggs. So that's the first time
I scrambled eggs because she didn't do it.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Can you imagine scrambling eggsit two? It's hard to fathom.
Kathy became more dependent on Tracy Riquel for other adult
tasks as well.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
I was buying cigarettes for her when I was five, all.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
By yourself as a little kid. Why do you think
she did that.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Your electricity gets hut off or your water gets cut off,
and you send your child to stand in line with
a bunch of adults who are paying their bills because
you don't have enough courage to stand in there and
pay her own white bill.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Kathy didn't want to stand in line because her bills
were being paid late. That's why she sent her daughter
to do it. I have this image of this little
blonde child reaching up to a cashier with a money
order and then asking in a tiny voice, please can
I have a pack of Virginia Slims. It all feels surt.
(23:57):
As time went on, life presumed. Nobody seemed to talk
much about what happened to Matthew. He was just there
one day and then he wasn't. A few years after
Matthew died, Kathy and Jan had another son. He was
named Jason. Tracy Raquel had a new, younger brother, but
(24:20):
another baby in the house did nothing to quell the violence.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
I guess chaotic people do chaotic things, so lots of
violence and abuse. We would be settled somewhere from the
time I was a little child, and he would just
show up in the middle of the night and throw
us on the street.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Where would you guys go?
Speaker 2 (24:41):
We spent lots of time just sleeping on a park
bench just wherever. One time, I think I was seven
or so, he showed up in the middle of the
night and beat the door down and beat her up
really bad, and took Jason.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
But Tracy Riquel could hardly look to her mom for comfort.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Kathy was equally as bad as Jan, just in a
different way.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
In what way.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
I was in the first grade and got gom in
my hair. Her answer to that was just to shave
my head and then send me to school.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Wow, that story hit me in the gut. And when
Tercy Raquel first told me this, my thought was, didn't
anybody else notice or try to intervene.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
My aunt Jane is Kathy's older sister. She's the oldest
of the five of them. It's my understanding that she
and my grandfather tried very desperately to take me away
from Kathy shortly after Matthew died. The system just wouldn't
allow it. So I think you do what you can
(25:49):
do when you can, and that's what they did.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
But her family was also fearful of offering shelter to Kathy.
They believed Kathy would always take Jan back and they
would put themselves in harm's way for nothing. No one
wanted to be on the receiving end of Jan's rage,
only to find Kathy back in the same situation days later.
When Jan threw Kathy and the two kids on the street,
(26:14):
she would take the kids two motels and then Jan
would show up. It was a cycle. So as a child,
Tracy Riquel was basically homeless. Her life was completely erratic,
going through her day avoiding what emotional or physical landmind
(26:34):
she could step on. Next, her mother was beaten down,
broken and her dad well, there was another side to
Jan Sandlin that I haven't shared yet. Her father was
involved in criminal activity.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
He was connected to an organized crime group in the South.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
She was even a witness to some of it.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
I must before. At the time, I remember for all
of these men being in this apartment living room and
they were making a plan. There were guns everywhere, and
they were getting ready to do something.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Jan was focused on the task at hand, and when
Kathy objected, Jan got her out of his way.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
They had a protest about something, and he locked her
in a tiny little closet while they went did their
I don't know, robbery, whatever they were doing.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
How long was she stuck in there?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
She would be able to tell you how many hours
she stayed in that closet, but a long time. And
there was also this this Cat County police officer was
murdered and Kathy said, yeah, he killed that police officer.
She didn't even know his name.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
There were rumors that Jan was involved in the murder
of the officer. Only twenty four years old. The young
police officer had been shot execution style while working at
a part time security job.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
But Kathy said he killed that police officer and then
we drove to Alabama and for the Guynilite.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
I'll tell you more about his story later in the series.
It seems like there was never a moment of stability.
Tracy Riquel has vivid memories of Jan breaking into the
house and kidnapping her and Jason as a way to
get a Kathy. Jan had a special affinity for Jason
(28:23):
because he knew for certain that Jason was his son.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
I believe that Jan is the personality type that's very primal.
I only take care of my own, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
In Jane's mind, Tracy Riquel's paternity was a little more
dubious considering the overlapping relationships Kathy had with Jan and
her first husband, Ted Gold. But Tracy Riquel was useful
to Jan in one way, used her to look after
her younger brother. She has a memory that plays almost
(28:59):
like a short film. In her mind. Jan had kidnapped
her and her brother Jason.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
When it was time for Jason to take a nap,
he would put us both in there and we would
take a nap, and I had this little girl, and
she knew what was going on. She knew that he
had kidnapped us or taken us, that this was a
violent situation.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
The little neighbor girl started coming to the bedroom window
every day at lunchtime to try and help Tracy, Raquel
and Jason escape.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
And I would be like, okay, I can do this.
I could pick him up and hand him down there.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Did you have a plan.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
This place was at the end of the decab airport
and my uncle Steve worked at the airport. I just
thought if I took get him out, I could run him.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Down this rudway and we'd be fought.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
But I was so afraid I was going to hurt him.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
She had already lost her younger brother, Matthew. She couldn't
bear the thought of doing anything that would harm Jason.
We tried every day for about two weeks, and then
what happened.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
The police came. One day, This nice policewoman came and
took my hand and he was arrested and off we went.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
It sounds like a disconnect, but here's what happened. The
police showed up because justice had finally caught up with
Jan in the spring of nineteen eighty one, ten years
after Jan and Kathy got together. He was going to prison.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
He drove to Panama City committed armed robbery and a
gas station or comedience or something like that, and then
got into a shootout on Panama City Beach with the
Panama City Police Department, and then he was arrested and
sentenced in Florida. And I understand it was like twenty
five to life.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
He had done time for crimes like forgery and breaking
and entering, but this conviction would be the one to
put him out of their lives.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
I thought for sure everything was going to be great.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Life would be great without jam.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Sometimes you just don't see the forest for the trees.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Kathy didn't physically abuse Tracy Riquel, but the relationship was
broken dysfunctional. Kathy was a battered woman and couldn't see
much beyond her own pain to offer any love or
comfort to her daughter.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
When I was fourteen years old, I was very ill
and ended up in the hospital and they diagnosed me
with a seizure disorder.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
It was just done. What did you mean you were done?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
There was no way out. There's nowhere to go. I
just really didn't want to be in that environment. I
didn't know how to get out. There was just not help.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
So she saved thirty days of a medication tagridol, an
anti convulsiant drug, and she took it all at once.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
At the time, I thought I'd be with Matthew, or
I'd be in some better place. He's kind of hokey now,
but at the time it seemed like there was probably
something far better than what was going on.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
She figured a month's worth of the tablets would have
been enough to kill her, and it should have.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
I woke up to Kathy standing over me, shaking my face, saying,
oh my god, what have you done now?
Speaker 1 (32:31):
That is not the reaction you'd expect from a mother
who just discovered her daughter had attempted suicide.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
And all I could think was, Wow, I'm really still here.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
It's remarkable that she survived. Maybe it was luck, maybe
it was fate. Perhaps she was destined for a greater purpose.
There was a lot of wrong at Tracy Raquel's childhood,
enough to break anyone, but for Racy Raquel, her upbringing
only in still build a strong sense of right and
wrong and something with those medical records did not seem right.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
It stays child was thrown from crib by sister. Rather
than just looking at my own abuse and suffering, I
took on this whole full thing. I'm going to find
out what happened to Matthew.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
On the next episode A Burden of Guilt, Tracy Raquel
persuades an investigator to look into Matthew's debt.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
In someone of great important just the child that died.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
It's terrible, yeah, but why would I take it?
Speaker 2 (33:37):
But Tracy said some things that intrigued.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Me, and later this season There's no way in hell
that this child died from being pushed out of a crib.
I'm Nancy Glass. That's all coming up on Burden of Guilt.
Stay tuned for Burden of Guilt, the documentary coming in
twenty twenty four only on Paramount Plus. If you would
(34:03):
like to reach out to the Burden of Guilt team,
email us at Burden of Guiltpod at gmail dot com.
That's Burden of Guilt Pod at gmail dot com. If
you or someone you know is worried about maltreatment or
suspect that a child is being abused or neglected, call
the Child Help National Child Abuse Hotline. You can call
(34:27):
or text one eight hundred four a child that's one
eight hundred four two two four four five three. One
way to show support is by subscribing to our show
on Apple Podcasts and don't forget to rate and review
Burden of Guilt. Five star reviews go a long way.
(34:48):
A big thank you to all of you who are listening,
and also be sure to check us out and follow
us on Instagram at Glass Podcasts, Burden of Guilt is
a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group,
in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is hosted and
executive produced by me Nancy Glass, written and produced by
(35:11):
Carrie Hartman and Andrea Gunning. Also produced by Ben Fetterman
and associate producer Kristin Melchiori. Our iHeart team is Ali
Perry and Jessica Crincheck. Special thanks to Tracy Riquel Burns
and her husband Bart. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio.
(35:32):
Burden of Guilt's theme composed by Oliver Baines. Music library
provided by my Music and For more podcasts from iHeart,
visit the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts, Stay tuned for Burden of Guilt, the documentary,
(35:52):
coming in twenty twenty four and airing only on Paramount
Plus
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Okay,
Host
Nancy Glass
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