May 24, 2022 • 43 mins
Jana Kramer joins Burke in the Game to ask the tough questions about divorce, dating, and does Cheryl want to have children. Jana knows from her own experience dating is difficult, divorce is devastating, and dating after divorce is brutal. But, they are in it together and are willing to keep at it.
Jana Kramer is known for being an open book and sharing her own experiences, good and bad.
What should Cheryl do next, well that is up to you.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
This is Burke in the Game and I heard radio podcast.
Hey guys, welcome to Burke in the Game. This is
your host of the show, Cheryl Burke, and I've got
my podcast dad once again here to join us. Sam
Rubin from kt L A. How are you, Sam? Good? Cheryl?
You know what we talked about this on television. The
(00:25):
podcast has been out for a while. The bigger question,
how are you doing well? You know, I've had mixed feelings,
like I wake up some mornings and I'm like, what
the hell did I just do? And then I, um, am,
you know what I feel like. I I have empowered
a few people, you know, and a lot of women
have reached out to me and I've said thank you
so much for your vulnerability. You've really helped me in
(00:46):
my marriage. But for as far as I'm feeling, um,
it's a roller coaster of emotions and I'm you know,
I'm still going through this whole divorce process as well,
so like obviously I am wondering if I heard the
podcast or what's happening on that front. So I can't help.
But um, I feel a little bit nervous, but also
(01:07):
I feel I feel like I've accomplished something. As far
as me and my own mental health, I think this
has really helped me in a therapeutic way. All right.
That that that's really interesting. Let's talk about that a
little bit more. And what way do you think it's
helped you? Well, it's helped me first of all to
hear my therapist talk to you and being a fly
(01:28):
on the wall a little bit, right, It was interesting
just to really learn about my process the past eight
years that I've been going to her. You know, normally
it takes the years for me to hear like a
summary of what's going on. But to hear her say,
you know, Cheryl has commitment issues or she has trust issues, really,
(01:48):
um made me think, really made me just it helped
me knowing that I do have trust issues and that
this is just a process that I need to work on,
you know, like it just goes back to that accountability.
All right. So there's that. And then have you heard
from people who have actually taken in the podcast either
having listened to it our discussion about it on TV,
(02:11):
people who uh know what you're trying to accomplish and
what their thoughts might be about it. Well, I think
people are like well, what happened to the privacy? I
thought you wanted privacy, Cheryl, and now you're airing your
dirty laundry. And then a lot of people are dmng
me and saying thank you for your vulnerability and for
helping me. I'm go also going through a divorce. Um,
(02:33):
you know, I think this has not talked about, and
this is this type of situation, uncomfortable situation isn't talked
about enough, I think, and I think a lot of
women feel like, Okay, they're not alone. That that to
me is always is a super super positive thing. Has
anybody said, because it does sort of defy convention? As
(02:53):
anybody said, because I think that's what happens sometimes. I
think when people go through the process of a divorce,
that's like like this giant time out and you you
emerge afterwards. Right. Has has anybody said to you, g
that would that would be a better approach? You know?
This is great, but it's premature. Yeah, because I think
people are confused as to why I posted about, you know,
(03:16):
my divorce and saying I needed some privacy. I think
that people are a little shocked that I've been so outspoken,
but I obviously can't predict what's going to happen when
I was going through that at that moment, and I
did feel a sense of comfort, you know, being able
to talk about it, even if it were to a
bunch of strangers. It is what it is that that's true,
the idea that you're getting, the support that you're getting. Uh.
(03:39):
And the one thing that we talked about from the
comfort of your lovely home was your reluctance and reticence
to leave your lovely home. Has that Has that improved
at all? I have been going out to dinners. I
went out to three this week, actually, which is huge.
I lost my I thought I lost my I d
Thank god I found it because I would have had
to go to the d m V tomorrow. But I
(03:59):
definitely have gone out quite a lot, to the point
where I feel irresponsible, Like I feel like my my
renting a place right now because my house is under renovations.
So I just feel a little out of control, which
is probably a good thing for me, because I'm such
a control freak, all right, that's gonna And then and
then going out three times no less, how did that feel?
(04:21):
Did it feel like, oh, this is something I can
slip into because I tell you what, I think you're
gonna have more success quite obviously removed from the you know,
four walls of your dwelling than just staying stuck in inside. Yeah,
you know, it felt it feels good. I mean, mind you.
I went out with like em A Slater from Dancing
with the Stars, and you know, we definitely caught up
(04:42):
and it was nice to be around other people. But
you know, I still get at I do prefer sitting
in a corner, in a dark corridor of the restaurant.
So that's me. I'm the person that's like hiding away
from the crowd. But um, hey, at least so I
got out, it felt good. I did miss my dog.
I don't know if that's weird. It's probably codependent the
issues that I have now that have grown to my dog.
(05:04):
But yeah, it's been Um it's been interesting just to
like be out and not go and have a drink
for example. You know, like it definitely going out at night,
I do start to think about maybe I want to
drink or oh well that that that's a whole another thing. Sure,
(05:25):
but the idea one thing that we talked about, and
again this sort of surprised me. And maybe I was
a little bit pushy because I was like, oh, just
meeting somebody for coffee. It's just coffee, it's not that.
But the the process of going up and going out.
Do you think that warms you up a little bit
for that other than the drinking part. Yes, definitely. I
(05:45):
think that. I don't think I want to do dinners
because then just could be so long and it's like
what if I don't like the person. I do believe that,
like we can hike maybe or just take a long
take a long walk, So maybe I need to like
lose him. No, I'm kidding, um bakeme un Walking like
a coffee would be okay, like in a break during
the day or something like that, but to commit to
(06:07):
a dinner, I better like you. Okay. I I really
liked the hike, but somebody just did a comedy but
the other day saying that when a woman offers to
go on a hike, you know, and it was like,
face it, ladies, No men want to hike. It's it's
it's nothing any man ever wants to do. No. But
I do find that when I'm in motion and I
am talking, I think the vulnerability comes out that more
(06:30):
than just like staring at each other across the table. Okay,
that's all right now, that makes me or would make
somebody else want to take you for a hike. That's
a really interesting that. See, here's the thing that that
I think you've been taking the time to do, which
a lot of people either are afraid to do or
don't have the time to do. Do. Do you think
now as much as ever you're you're in the process
(06:51):
of getting better to know yourself. Yeah, I think that
my identity has been a little skewed, you know, from
coming here, just moving here, coming from the ballroom competitive world,
to being here and then having to figure out like
I remember, I'll never forget the answering that Thars asked
you what my favorite color was. I couldn't answer the question,
you know, and it was like, it's really getting to
(07:12):
know myself without having somebody attached to me at the
same time, you know. And um, also now being newly sober,
like I'm getting to know myself even more, you know.
So it's um, it's a I'm a work in progress. Well,
and do you think all things being equal, because this
is something else we talked about, and we talked about
you know this, this initial reticence. Would it be great
(07:35):
if if Mr Charming and Mr Wonderful existed, uh and
and was interested in taking you for golfe. I actually
have to say and admit that I didn't interview with
entertainment tonight today. And they guessed. So they asked me
the same question, and they said, so, who would be
your ideal boyfriend? And I said, or and what occupation
would that be? And I said, probably a neuroscientist. And
(07:56):
they guessed the neuroscientist that I had a crush shot,
or that I have a crush on. Isn't that crazy? Anyway?
And I want to tell you who what his name is?
His name is Dr Andrew however Hubert Tit Oh god,
I forgot his last name anyway, Hooverman anyway from Stanford.
All right, well, you know what, you're a Bay area person.
(08:16):
Let's yeah, I do not think wrong with putting the
word out there. You never why not? Crazier things have happened? Yeah,
I know, No, I know. And by the way, this
is like a good like it's it's kind of like
an excuse for me not to have to approach it myself. Right,
So I just say it out to the public and
for sure I'll reach him at some point, right, right,
I would think I think it day. Well, there's a
(08:37):
right now in Palo Alto. Somebody's like, excuse me, doctor, Yeah, exactly.
This is girl named Sheryl Brook, also from Palo Alto,
has a huge crush on you. Anyway, We've got a
great guest today that we've got, Janet Kramer, and she
talked about someone who's been vulnerable. I mean, I am
a huge fan of her podcast, Going Down. Have to
give he heard of it before? Alright, sure, have no.
I've talked to her many times. She's she's a great career,
(08:59):
but she also has navigated an enormous amount of ups
and downs in the public eye to a large Yeah.
I mean she's publicly got a divorce basically right her
husband and her co hosted Wine Down and now no longer.
Now it's obviously Jane's um and I just appreciate her
vulnerability and I've learned actually so much from her podcast actually,
so I'm very excited to talk to her. Be right
(09:21):
back with Janna Kramer. Hi are you okay? How are you?
I am good? A little tired today, but good. You're beautiful.
(09:41):
Thank you. It's so good to see you. And I'm
so happy that you're doing this podcast. Thank you. I'm
to talking to you and picking my brain about everything.
Of course, girl, I got you, I got you, I
got you. So how are you. I've been listening to
I mean, I've always listened to your podcast, and I
have to say that I really love the episode with
that Irish guy who writes the book who wrote Love
(10:05):
Love un fund or something. He was amazing, Oh my gosh,
because I can't even it just like it triggered something
nasty in me, but that it also like made me
just soak you. So I'm listening to this book right
now in audible and it's freaking amazing. Yeah, he's like
he was the Actually it's a really good I want
to go back and listen to and the things he
said because he was just so spot on with you know,
(10:28):
with with just everything, reliscountability, like the fact that he
said and it's so true, it's a hundred percent true.
It's just that it's hard for people, I think too,
and for me, by the way, to really point the
finger at yourself when you know things get complicated, for sure,
how are you, by the way, Like, I'm okay. You know,
(10:49):
it's been a rollercoaster ride of emotions. I am still
grieving and I think I will be for a while.
It's um, it hasn't been as easy as maybe I
never would think it would be easy, but I guess
it was just the pain of it, right, like you never.
I'm still grieving my father's passing. So it's like there's
(11:10):
just a lot, a lot, right and I'm choosing to
feel my feelings, which brings up so much shipped from
the past, um that I don't know. It's it's difficult.
There's days and mornings and nights that I miss him
like crazy, you know, and it sucks. But um, ultimately
I know that it's what's best. But it's hard to
kind of have that realization sometimes when you're in it,
(11:35):
when you're in the emotion. And I've chosen to really
like not alienate myself, but too, I know myself when
it comes to feeling my feelings that I tend to
please other people, Like I don't. I get too scared
about what people are thinking about me when I'm feeling
my feelings. So I've chosen to really be alone and
feel because like I can't mask it anymore. It's too much. Yeah,
(11:59):
I am. I've kind of gotten to a place where
holding and what would help me like in my healing process, um,
just with relationships, life and just in general, is like
holding space for both um saying said it's family, but
it's and it's like I'm hurting and I'm healing, like
I miss him and I'm going to be okay, And
(12:20):
it's like space for both has been like such a
such a helpful tool for me to realize it's like
both things can exist, like I can, I can move
on and I'm still healing, you know, um and not
you know, it's just it's just holding space and I
just I that's been something that's been great because I
feel like it has to be kind of like one
(12:42):
or the other. And it's like it's not black and white,
like it's relationships, life, love and nothing is black and
white with with that, and so it's like to be
able to go like okay, like today I might feel
great and tomorrow might really hurt. You know. Yeah, yeah, no,
I'm very black or white. I'm working on this. There
be currently it's uh, there is a gray area there
(13:03):
is a middle ground, and I just don't. I think
my brain is very black or white. So I'm like,
that's a great advice, thank you. I'm actually getting an
and like and that's an amber sand I think tattoo
like I'm gonna get it and just like right here
in my army. Just remember like it is. It is
okay to be you know, um in in both places
(13:24):
and you will be fine and you will you know total.
I feel it's like, you know, remember some total you know.
The dating world is just like right, I'm not looking
forward to that. Yeah, it's not like you know, it's
it's um it's interesting. But I remember a guy said
to me, um, you know, call me when you heal,
(13:45):
and I'm like, oh yeah, and I just remember going
that's so triggering for me. Oh yeah, well it's triggering.
Also it's like you're almost taking like yeah, and I'm like, yeah,
I know, I have like healing work to do, but
like I will be I'm not holding onto it anymore.
It's just some days not you know, I'm feeling there's
(14:08):
no like hocus pocus. I'm healed either like I either
want to be in it with me or not, Like
you're also being honest and true with your feelings. You
just couldn't handle it and we can have like bad days,
and so I just remember going, yeah, now I'm actually
good like you can you can walk away? Wait how
did that? So? How did that come up with as
part of your dating process? Like how did you? First
(14:28):
of all? How long until you started dating? Um? I
definitely I should have waited a little bit longer. Um.
That is definitely something I look back on and go
but and UM, it taught me a lot of things too.
And I will say, like I just got back from
(14:49):
this amazing place, and I would I really encourage you
to do. It's called on site. I've been a couple
of times. But where is it. It's it's in Nashville.
There's actually a place in San Diego. They just opened
it there. But I would I would say it's not
I should say Nashville. It's it's like an hour and
a half outside of Nashville. But it's a it's a there.
It's a experiential experiential therapy workshop place. And so it's
(15:11):
like and for me, like I've I've done the group setting,
like the Living Centered program twelve years ago and then
with Um. Then I was just like I need to
just get into a room with a therapist for four days.
It was like six hours a day and within a
room with this and just like hash out some of
these like patterns and and for me, like, I don't
(15:35):
think I would have been able to see some of
those things if I did it, yeah, like right after
the divorce, you know, Like I think like you go
through that process of like numbing out with it's like
going on a date with a guy or like and
it gets sure, that's not the healthiest thing to do.
But I don't think I would have been ready to
do that work a year ago as opposed to like
(15:56):
the work I just did, you know this last week
and it's like this mind blown experience where like oh wow,
like I needed to kind of go through the last
year to get me here to where I'm like feel good.
So is it like a so is it one on
one or is it a group setting so you can
do whatever you want. I chose to do an individual um,
just because I really needed to, Like pleas are focused,
(16:17):
Like here's my issues? Why do I keep picking the
same man? Why do you know? What what does that say?
What does it say? About me and I learned from
it was like I didn't realize how much shame I
was holding onto. So like I thought shame was something
that my ex dealt with, you know, and like because
he did things wrong in the marriage. And it's like, no,
like the shame messages where it was like I didn't
(16:38):
feel good enough and I deserved it, and I like
don't deserve respect just were the things that I was
like holding onto and it was just like holy crap,
Like I didn't realize that was right. And so do
you You do have your own therapist, right I do? Yeah,
she's amazing her so much. And so with this, do
(16:58):
you have to like my whole thing? It's like that
overwhelming feeling of having to explain everything again and you're like,
oh my god, Like it's overwhelming, you know, to have
to like talk through like what happened to me as
a kid, the trauma and my dad cheating on my
mom and then me getting sexually molested and then me
getting into the horrible it's like it's just like that's
going to take five hours, which is why it's it's
(17:19):
really the transition is so hard for me. And then
on top of it, I have social phobia, so like
anything group, anything, it really scares me, well and you
can and you can do intensive and kind of what
we did was like it was you know, I get
the whole thing, like having to say everything again the
same thing. It's like, okay, yes, this is what happened.
I was when I was five years old. That was
the first time I was scared of a man, and
then my duch, my mom, and then that made me
(17:39):
feel abandoned and then I'm not good enough and it's
like so it's like I definitely get that process. But
it was a sheet of paper and she just made
me pinpoint like the trauma points and then like the
messages and then we just went off of that and
then you know we had experiential like talking from the
other you know people, and I was able to like
you know, reverse roles and it was it's wild. Yeah, amazing.
(18:04):
It's like a rehab, but for like therapy. Yeah, it's
a rehabby your heart, for your heart. Yeah, for yourself
actually with everyone should be a part of That's so cool.
And do you have any other like did you ever
go on other retreats or is this like would this
be considered a retreat or would this be considered more
like yeah, because I mean it's definitely there wasn't anything
like well, I mean like I was gonna say there's
(18:27):
something any fun about anything fun about it, but um,
so it's fun for me. Yeah, And the on'st thing
I love, like learning and growing, like doing doing the
hard work. Um and the community there, like you end up.
Even though I was comhensive, there was a community there,
and it was just I didn't want to leave and
(18:47):
I didn't have my phone, and at the end of
the day, like everyone tried out and just like exhausted
that like we all kind of came together and just
like became this like family of like we're we all
have issues and we all just need love and support.
Yeah that's great. Yeah it was. But it wasn't like,
let's go do yoga in the morning and then go
(19:11):
down this cute little waterfall. Like I definitely room for
six hours a day. I went to one of those
let's go do yoga in the morning, and I was
like action. And then group dinners with name tags and
I was like, mom, I can't do this, mom My mom.
And I went to this Call of VI like retreat,
which I loved. Yeah, I was so happy that you
did that. Looks like really, um, like you were refreshed
(19:33):
and it was I didn't. I didn't choose to do
the group yoga's or the group, you know, but it
was still nice just to get out and be with
my mother. But anyway, UM, it's just been really challenging
with my sobriety as well, just to like, I guess
still try to figure out my own identity if that
makes any sense, and then also my own identity without
(19:54):
somebody with me because I got sober a while I
was so. Um, it's interesting too for the first time
feel certain feelings that living alone again, you know what
I mean, and just um figuring out life and the
dog and you know, simple things but big things because
I used to, I guess, depend on him a lot more.
(20:18):
Can I ask a question around around that? Because he
was like, you're I don't say this person person going
becoming sober? Has that been? I know, I read an
article saying that you've definitely um struggled with right staying
(20:38):
sober then came out, But like do you think it
was because like, like okay, I'll say this. My my
ex husband was kind of like my anxiety blanket. So
it's like I needed him to be with me because
or I needed to um uh like, oh god, I
(21:00):
can't sign this thing like he's like because he was
he would always like he because I kind of worked
through my anxiety like a lot, like in the marriage,
and that kind of like made him be like my
blanket of my anxiety. Right. But the weird thing was
like when I got out of it, I had zero anxiety,
Like I've had the least anxiety in my entire life.
So it's like, I'm curious if you if you've seen
(21:21):
anything where it's like yes, like you've struggled with it,
but is there a piece of you that's um where
you realize like maybe something that was like like for me,
like my act was actually making my anxiety worse. Yes, yes,
Well I see a difference in the dog. Is that
weird to say? I mean like dogs do feel energy.
I mean I also see a difference in um in
(21:44):
the way I handle things, right, Like I I've always
said you are who you hang out with, right, So
there'd be like little tendencies that started to happen, like
I would leave the fridge open too, I run the
water longer than I normally do, and I actually started
not liking that so of me all of a sudden,
you know. And but when it comes to just the
(22:05):
you know, right now, my house is going under renovations
at the moment, and the energy of the house is
completely different. Because I hear it from other people that
walk in. They're just like, it's so much more calmer
and it's peaceful and um, and I just think that
I my expectations right like are not being let down
anymore in a way like I feel that I don't know,
(22:30):
I think my expectations in general are so high that
moving forward, what I've learned most really is um that
I need to not have such high expectations because then
I'm setting myself up for failure. I think, in general,
what do you fear for the next chapter? Well, first
of all, I just fear dating. I freaking don't. I
(22:53):
don't love going out, let alone, going out sober and
meeting new people. I'm mean, this is exactly why I
have sociophobia. And on top of it, it's like the
small talk and the oh hi, how are It's just
like and then if I do like somebody's like waiting
by the phone, like I don't like that feeling, yeah,
you know, and like right, like, god forbid, is this
(23:18):
guy gonna text back? How long is it going to be?
Like I actually don't like that, and I feel so
um desperate in a way, in a weird way, you know.
And um, the whole dating app thing scares me a
little bit too. I'm just like, there's gotta be some
people out there that just want to like try this
old the old fashioned way, you know. Yeah, no, I
definitely hear that. And it's something where I feel like, um,
(23:42):
for the last year of kind of being single, Um,
I put myself on trial and that's not how it
should have been. And I think it was what do
you mean by that? So I I put myself on
trial to be like are you gonna pick me? Am
I going to be? And it's like I shouldn't put
(24:04):
myself on trial. They should be on trial where it's
like enough for me, yes, you know. And it's like
but I think, because you know, I had all those
like shame messages, I just again, you're right, Am I
good enough? Are you're gonna love me? Am I lovable?
Because I've been told not and I've been told that
I'm this and I'm so it's like so I just
(24:25):
had that like constantly questioning yourself like are you good enough?
And if this person is going to define it by
if his response basically exactly and so you know, and
that's like such a and I've been able to like
see the like twist and the change into that where
it's like, you know, I'm not waiting by the phone
if someone's not texting me, it's like I know my worth.
(24:47):
So like girls, you didn't want to text me, but
like if you don't, like cool because I'm not like
gonna and I think like getting that power back and
like not putting myself on the trial has been like
switched to now obvious slay. There's moments where I'm like,
that's like you know yeah, and also like if someone
doesn't because I'm not a small talker, I'm like, this
(25:08):
is my ship. This is what I've done. You probably
would read about it anyways, UM, X, Y and Z
and here it is. Yeah, I love that, but I'm
not like but I'm not you know, I'm not going
to make excuses for it. I'm not gonna say sorry
for it. This is what I learned this is who
I am today. So it's either you know, believe it
(25:29):
kind of thing that's amazing. I mean, that's the thing
that I aspire. No, it's not. I don't think it
is at all. And I think that, Look, I aspire
to be where you are today because I don't think
i've ever had UM. I don't think I've ever not
put myself on trial like I don't think i've ever
I don't know if I'm there yet to say that,
you know, to really believe that I'm good enough, that
(25:50):
I that no other man is going to define me,
or that UM, I go through insecurities, you know, and
I think that that has a lot like you said
to do with shaneam And until I am able to
call it out and really do the work, um, which
I'm starting to definitely do, then I don't think that
I can get there organically or even be But this
(26:11):
is why I say I want to wait to date,
because until I'm there, I'm going to repeat the same
pattern and I'm gonna end up with the same person.
Well here's here's the thing that I'll say to that.
So I've been getting my shame messages since I was five.
How old were you I was four, Okay, so how
many years So that's thirty that we have heard those messages.
(26:37):
Girlfriend is never gonna leave us. No, we will always
struggle with not feeling chosen. And it's gonna suck when
someone because it's going to ignite those like just like
it'll like but that is and I'm also knowing, Okay,
when I go there, I have to affirm myself. No,
I am good at like I I am going to
choose myself or I'm not going to stay in this situation.
(26:57):
That's that's not serving me. And those those messages will
always be there. It's just what I do with them,
and if I believe them or not, like if I
give them more power than what I would tell like
you know they talk about your inner child, it's like
that's my my little girl inside of me deserve to
feel this way. No like that. Having said that, we've
(27:19):
had so many of these messages for our entire life
that of course, like we're going to deal with that forever.
The power too, But you also said is something that
is um key believing it and I am definitely I
know intellectually what to say and I can give advice
and I know what that their therapeutic way to say things.
(27:41):
And I know what I need to do eventually, but
I don't believe it yet. Sure, I mean, it's just
that's the thing. It's like it's a you know, the
thing that we were doing process. Yeah, it's on site.
You know, I'm chucking these rocks, like you know, abuse
and like I don't you know, thinking I deserved abuse
and like yeah, and she's like, say the thing back
and like I'm just like bawling, and I'm like, well
(28:02):
what if I do? And then it's just so it's
like that like just retraining your brain that like people
deserve that, and like and I know that people don't
deserve that. But then I you know, of course it's
it goes back to me and it's like, you know,
I love yourself how you would love your friends back?
But don't you think though that I actually And the
(28:23):
question was this to the audience the last episode was
you know, I was talking to Teddy and Tamara about
this and I was saying, you know, I'm just not
ready because Tamra's advice was to get over someone, get
under somebody else, and it's like that to me is
actually I am a professional number, Like I actually can
do that easily. But that's I'm trying to break the pattern, right,
(28:44):
I'm trying to actually break it so that I look
within and that I start to do the work from within,
because I could easily be distracted, I could easily be
all up in whatever it is in order to numb
right that, Now that I don't have drugs and alcohol,
it's like, now I can just figure it out, because
I can't. I'm a professional number. But I'm really trying
to sit in it. And I think I need to
(29:05):
feel that pain and that emptiness in order to start
building that foundation again, if that makes any sense. Yeah,
and and believing in yourself so that way you don't
repeat the pattern, the same pattern, because it's because again
the messages like we will continue to repeat if we
don't break that cycle totally here. Like I've always I
have always put my worth in me being in a
(29:29):
relationship and a man. Yes, that has always defined me.
And if I wasn't in a relationship, well guess what
that means. I'm not lovable, I'm not chosen enough. Um,
And then when I am with someone, I'm like, oh
my god. So I'm like it's just that like it's
like I want to be so solid in myself that
like cool if a man comes in, cool if he doesn't.
(29:50):
You know. Yeah, that's the work that I've been doing
the past, you know, a few months. And well are
you there, I will say. And so I just got
you know, back from the earth treats. So right now
I'm all like self love. I don't. I'm definitely like
people still, um. And I also know that I'm not
going to let myself be in bad relationships again. And
(30:13):
so when I said, when you know, someone lies to
me again, like I'm gonna be like no, like I
don't deserve that, and I'm out or you know, um,
if they don't respect me like I will, I will
leave so much sooner. And I've done a better job
of leaving of leaving sooner than I haven't the um.
But again, it's just you know, I write write things
(30:35):
on my mirror like I'm enough, I'm worthy, okay, And
it's like just like seeing the positive messages instead of
the negative ones heads just like as elementary as that is, No,
it's not I do the same thing totally. Yeah, um.
And now it's kind of like you know, yeah, you know,
like I'm just texting someone, but it's like like I'm
(30:56):
not gonna put like, hey, I'm not going to put
myself on trial. So if you don't want to get
to do right right cool and be like I don't
really need it, which is kind of nice, and like
I'm kind of looking forward to like singles hawk girl summer.
It s like like not even do just like going
to have fun, Like it's arrangement. Now. I'm like, all right,
I got like a week to go see my friend
(31:18):
in West Palm or a week to go see my
girlfriend in Colorado, and just like not like, oh well
this guy. It's like no, like I don't want to
live my life for a thing, right you want to
do you? Yeah, yeah, that's important. So I know you're
just in a relationship. Back to the question of like
because I'm just trying to figure it out for myself,
Like I know there's no rules, but like I don't
even see myself dating anytime soon, right, Like, and I
(31:40):
mean I just know that I can't give I don't
have I don't have anything to give at the moment
I need to. I owe so many years to myself
that I don't think that I would be of any
I guess it be a waste of time. Like, honestly,
I think that I would get so consumed with that
person as I do, I get very obsessed and consumed
(32:01):
with one person sometimes that it's just totally will take
me off track. So I'm being very um, like I'm
not teching anybody, Like there's nobody right, nobody around. Um.
And so how long did how long was that from
your separation? I guess to you dating, how long did
you take? So again, it was something where I should
have I should have taken more time. Um. So I
(32:25):
separated in April, and I started hanging out with someone
in July, um in and that ended in August, you
know what I mean. So it was so it's like
that was that was fast, um. And then I, you know,
took another break and then I started dating that one
guy and September that in October and then I met
(32:49):
you know, and then I was like, Okay, I'm ready
to have a boyfriend. But I think at the time,
like again, I wish I would have just um, I
wish I would have taken six months just to like
not focus my whole thing. Again, was like I am
I'm not whole unless I'm in a relationship, and so
(33:11):
I'm trying to find like who's who's my like, who's
gonna be my tryings and like you know, just like
and and and then you know you you end up
staying in or I do is I end up staying
in situations that don't serve me at all and that
you aren't good for me? And then I repeat the
same pattern and ends up being the same man. And
I'm like, because I'm just grasping for like someone, it's
(33:34):
my focus is my kids and just continually believe that
I that I am worthy and then I'm deserving of
a love. And I'm a big believer that you know
when that all aligns, like He'll God, God will send
me my man. So and how have you? Thank you
for letting me know and telling me. I know it's
(33:55):
private information, but um, it really helps you know, just
to feel like I'm not alone. But when it comes
to being alone now and waking up alone when you
don't have your kids, how does how do you feel?
Is it all new to you? Do you feel like empty?
Or I go and waves So it's um again, It's
(34:17):
like I was forced to file for divorce. It was
something that I never wanted to do. I didn't really
have a choice. Um, And it's really hard not having
my kids. And also my marriage was very toxic. So
I'm so thankful my kids aren't in that environment anymore.
(34:37):
I'm thankful I'm not in the environment anymore. So, Yeah,
am I lonely and sad that my kids aren't here? Absolutely,
Like I hate it. It tears me apart. And I
also know that they're getting they're going, they're going, they're
experiencing happier, healthier mom, they're experiencing a happier and healthier dad.
Um when they are here, I just really cherished the
(34:58):
times that I have with them. Yeah. Uh, because here's
the deal. I can I can cry about all I want,
and I have those moments where I definitely get sad
and it sucks and I'm like, I don't it doesn't
make sense and it's not what I wanted and I
hate it, Like what is that doing for me? Though?
You know, it's like I can't change it being back
(35:19):
together ever, So like this is just like this is
just what it is. And now I to go, Okay,
how am I going to make this the best experience
for everyone, and what am I going to do in
this process when my kids aren't here? So you know,
last night I had a girl's night and I stayed
up really late and I would sleep in and like,
you know, take care of some self care and you know,
I'm so good, good for you. It's the holidays though,
(35:42):
that really get me. Um. Yeah, this will be the
first year that I don't have them Christmas morning, Like
that's gonna stay. And I will for sure ugly cry
because that's because that's how you feel. Yeah, painful. And
so you know, speaking of kids, do you think I should? Um?
So I'm like in the like do I freeze my
(36:02):
eggs or not? I'm thirty eight years old? Um. And
I also suffer from the body dysmorphia. So it's like
I have this thing in my head where it's like
I can't freeze my egg until I have a man
or I can't freeze my eggs until I'm retired off
of the show, because you know, if I gain a pound,
god forbid, I'm gonna my mental health will be at risk. Um.
What do you think of freezing my eggs? I guess
(36:24):
for freezing eggs in general, do you want kids. I
don't necessarily I'm not like saying yes, I but I'm
also saying I'm not saying no, I don't like I
want to have the option in when you're seventy on
your front porch, on your little whatever chair threats if
(36:46):
you didn't have a kid, yes, freeze your eggs. Okay, thanks,
that helps. Yeah, no, I've never thought of it like that,
because yeah, you're right, like there is I don't like
to live in the what if you know, and might
not have an option. It's not like I'm actually having
a kid. Well there's it's it's there. And at the
(37:07):
end of the day, if you're so, I've got a
girlfriend she's forty, Um, still hasn't found the one. Fine,
don't find the until later in life or at least
I pray for our safety, like because I mean I
would like to, like, you know, eventually, like I want
to share your life with somebody. Yes, I'm a companionship. Yes, um,
(37:31):
too bad. I don't like sorry, but I know seriously, man, Like,
so my friends who's forty so she's like hasn't found
it and she's like at the point where she froze
her eggs when she was thirty five and now she's
like considering getting an embryo or like the y and
(37:57):
I'm like, also do that, because like you're eating for
this person that might not come for the next he
might not come for the five years, and then you're
gonna be like, man, I wish I would have like
tried or because yeah, being a single mom is hard,
but you can do it, and you can do it
like you would you can you can definitely do it.
Of course you want to do it with someone. And
(38:19):
but I'll also say when I was, you know, raising
my kids, I was so alone. It was like, you know,
because he wasn't really you were basically doing it alone. Yeah,
so you know, you know, it's one of those things.
And also like when I met my ax and he
had cheated two weeks into us dating, I stayed because
I'm like, well, I'm thirty, I'm gonna be thirty one.
(38:39):
I need tough kids. And it's like, don't settle either
or the then you're in this situation. But also like
to say, with my parents before we were really quick,
I was just going to add that my mom was
a single parent, my dad cheated on her, and at
the end of the day, Like I don't think I
would be where I am today if they stayed together, right,
Like sometimes it get better better for the psyche and
(39:01):
just in general the environment it's just so toxic. But
thank you Janna so much for doing this. And I
appreciate everything that you do and all the work you
do and keep it up. So thank you. Well. I
love you and I appreciate you, and I know that, um,
I know this is a really really hard season. Yeah,
and give yourself like a ton of grace totally, and
(39:24):
um yeah, I just I know, I I know and
believe for both of us, for other ladies out there,
and there's always like the silver lining in the end,
and there's the light that will come. It's just you've
got to walk through the dark path to get there.
Unfortunately for it's always light. I don't believe that anyone,
(39:47):
um or I mean, you know, yeah, but I just
I always believe like there is light at the end
of the tunnel, Like it's just it's a minute sometimes
to get there. And it's like I'm still like as
happy as I am, Like I still have my moments
of yeah, you know, I still wonder, like am I
ever gonna someone ever gonna love me again. And also
it's kind of like one day you will have that
(40:09):
feeling and I'll have that feeling again of falling in
love hopefully again and like that and hopefully it's it's real,
and you know, because yea many these days. Christ, they're good,
they're good, they're they think with one thing. Yeah, anyway,
I love you too. Let me know when you're in
(40:30):
l A and we'll this romance between me and you together.
It's dude, like, clearly I'm like, well Glenn and Doyle like,
I'm like, she maybe had something on it, you know,
but I still don't like so regretting. I know, I
like Dick. But I'll be there for you emotionally, Okay,
I'll be there for you emotionally. Perfect. All right, Well,
let me know next week and we'll get together, okay,
(40:51):
by friends, see you alright, guys. So, we got lots
of responses from listeners from episode one question of the week,
which was when do you think you're ready to date
again after a breakup? And I want to read one
of the first emails that I've gotten from Jeff. So
(41:15):
Jeff says, Hi, Cheryl, where to start first? Of all
wow in caps and lots of exclamation points. To listen
to you on this podcast. Being so open and honest
and raw is really a privilege, and I'm so appreciative
that you are allowing me, as a fan to get
a glimpse into your real life and into the difficulties
that we all face. Perhaps I'm guilty of assuming that
you have less problems than the rest of us because
(41:36):
of being a champion dancer. It's enlightening to be able
to see the challenges that you have to deal with.
F y, I I am fifty eight, just turned fifty
eight on my third We have the same birthday. Happy birthday.
Jeff married for thirty five years with three grown kids.
So let me say relationships are harder, and even after
thirty five years, still require constant work. But if you
find someone who is willing to put in that work,
(41:56):
it is so worth it. I wish I could give
you a big hug and tell you that everything is
going to be okay, but since I can't, I just
want to say thanks for allowing yourself to be so vulnerable,
and hopefully you'll be able to grow and learn things
about yourself from this podcast, From everything I've read and
watched and heard about you. You seem to be a
wonderful person who someone will be so lucky to be
in a relationship with you one day. In the meantime,
(42:17):
I will be continuing to listen to your journey. Please
stay strong and take one day at a time. Excuse me,
Thank you, Jeff. That is so encouraging. Your words are beautiful,
and yes, it really is just one day at a time,
right Like I I, you just really can't control or
predict the future, and that's what I'm learning. So thank
you for listening and thank you for your beautiful email.
(42:39):
UM alright, So, as you guys know, at the end
of every episode, UM I asked a question to you listeners,
and the question for this week's episode is what is
the key to getting back your confidence after a breakup?
So make sure you email us at work in the
Game at iHeart radio dot com or d m s
on Instagram at Burke in the Game. Again, the question
(43:01):
is what is the key to getting back your confidence
after a breakup? Thank you, guys, and see you next week.
Thanks for listening and coming along this journey with me.
If you like what you hear, then feel free to
give this podcast five stars. You can also follow along
with my journey on Instagram at burke in the Game
and if you have any advice or want to write in,
then email me at burke in the Game at I
heart radio dot com
This is Burke in the Game and I heard radio podcast.
Hey guys, welcome to Burke in the Game. This is
your host of the show, Cheryl Burke, and I've got
my podcast dad once again here to join us. Sam
Rubin from kt L A. How are you, Sam? Good? Cheryl?
You know what we talked about this on television. The
(00:25):
podcast has been out for a while. The bigger question,
how are you doing well? You know, I've had mixed feelings,
like I wake up some mornings and I'm like, what
the hell did I just do? And then I, um, am,
you know what I feel like. I I have empowered
a few people, you know, and a lot of women
have reached out to me and I've said thank you
so much for your vulnerability. You've really helped me in
(00:46):
my marriage. But for as far as I'm feeling, um,
it's a roller coaster of emotions and I'm you know,
I'm still going through this whole divorce process as well,
so like obviously I am wondering if I heard the
podcast or what's happening on that front. So I can't help.
But um, I feel a little bit nervous, but also
(01:07):
I feel I feel like I've accomplished something. As far
as me and my own mental health, I think this
has really helped me in a therapeutic way. All right.
That that that's really interesting. Let's talk about that a
little bit more. And what way do you think it's
helped you? Well, it's helped me first of all to
hear my therapist talk to you and being a fly
(01:28):
on the wall a little bit, right, It was interesting
just to really learn about my process the past eight
years that I've been going to her. You know, normally
it takes the years for me to hear like a
summary of what's going on. But to hear her say,
you know, Cheryl has commitment issues or she has trust issues, really,
(01:48):
um made me think, really made me just it helped
me knowing that I do have trust issues and that
this is just a process that I need to work on,
you know, like it just goes back to that accountability.
All right. So there's that. And then have you heard
from people who have actually taken in the podcast either
having listened to it our discussion about it on TV,
(02:11):
people who uh know what you're trying to accomplish and
what their thoughts might be about it. Well, I think
people are like well, what happened to the privacy? I
thought you wanted privacy, Cheryl, and now you're airing your
dirty laundry. And then a lot of people are dmng
me and saying thank you for your vulnerability and for
helping me. I'm go also going through a divorce. Um,
(02:33):
you know, I think this has not talked about, and
this is this type of situation, uncomfortable situation isn't talked
about enough, I think, and I think a lot of
women feel like, Okay, they're not alone. That that to
me is always is a super super positive thing. Has
anybody said, because it does sort of defy convention? As
(02:53):
anybody said, because I think that's what happens sometimes. I
think when people go through the process of a divorce,
that's like like this giant time out and you you
emerge afterwards. Right. Has has anybody said to you, g
that would that would be a better approach? You know?
This is great, but it's premature. Yeah, because I think
people are confused as to why I posted about, you know,
(03:16):
my divorce and saying I needed some privacy. I think
that people are a little shocked that I've been so outspoken,
but I obviously can't predict what's going to happen when
I was going through that at that moment, and I
did feel a sense of comfort, you know, being able
to talk about it, even if it were to a
bunch of strangers. It is what it is that that's true,
the idea that you're getting, the support that you're getting. Uh.
(03:39):
And the one thing that we talked about from the
comfort of your lovely home was your reluctance and reticence
to leave your lovely home. Has that Has that improved
at all? I have been going out to dinners. I
went out to three this week, actually, which is huge.
I lost my I thought I lost my I d
Thank god I found it because I would have had
to go to the d m V tomorrow. But I
(03:59):
definitely have gone out quite a lot, to the point
where I feel irresponsible, Like I feel like my my
renting a place right now because my house is under renovations.
So I just feel a little out of control, which
is probably a good thing for me, because I'm such
a control freak, all right, that's gonna And then and
then going out three times no less, how did that feel?
(04:21):
Did it feel like, oh, this is something I can
slip into because I tell you what, I think you're
gonna have more success quite obviously removed from the you know,
four walls of your dwelling than just staying stuck in inside. Yeah,
you know, it felt it feels good. I mean, mind you.
I went out with like em A Slater from Dancing
with the Stars, and you know, we definitely caught up
(04:42):
and it was nice to be around other people. But
you know, I still get at I do prefer sitting
in a corner, in a dark corridor of the restaurant.
So that's me. I'm the person that's like hiding away
from the crowd. But um, hey, at least so I
got out, it felt good. I did miss my dog.
I don't know if that's weird. It's probably codependent the
issues that I have now that have grown to my dog.
(05:04):
But yeah, it's been Um it's been interesting just to
like be out and not go and have a drink
for example. You know, like it definitely going out at night,
I do start to think about maybe I want to
drink or oh well that that that's a whole another thing. Sure,
(05:25):
but the idea one thing that we talked about, and
again this sort of surprised me. And maybe I was
a little bit pushy because I was like, oh, just
meeting somebody for coffee. It's just coffee, it's not that.
But the the process of going up and going out.
Do you think that warms you up a little bit
for that other than the drinking part. Yes, definitely. I
(05:45):
think that. I don't think I want to do dinners
because then just could be so long and it's like
what if I don't like the person. I do believe that,
like we can hike maybe or just take a long
take a long walk, So maybe I need to like
lose him. No, I'm kidding, um bakeme un Walking like
a coffee would be okay, like in a break during
the day or something like that, but to commit to
(06:07):
a dinner, I better like you. Okay. I I really
liked the hike, but somebody just did a comedy but
the other day saying that when a woman offers to
go on a hike, you know, and it was like,
face it, ladies, No men want to hike. It's it's
it's nothing any man ever wants to do. No. But
I do find that when I'm in motion and I
am talking, I think the vulnerability comes out that more
(06:30):
than just like staring at each other across the table. Okay,
that's all right now, that makes me or would make
somebody else want to take you for a hike. That's
a really interesting that. See, here's the thing that that
I think you've been taking the time to do, which
a lot of people either are afraid to do or
don't have the time to do. Do. Do you think
now as much as ever you're you're in the process
(06:51):
of getting better to know yourself. Yeah, I think that
my identity has been a little skewed, you know, from
coming here, just moving here, coming from the ballroom competitive world,
to being here and then having to figure out like
I remember, I'll never forget the answering that Thars asked
you what my favorite color was. I couldn't answer the question,
you know, and it was like, it's really getting to
(07:12):
know myself without having somebody attached to me at the
same time, you know. And um, also now being newly sober,
like I'm getting to know myself even more, you know.
So it's um, it's a I'm a work in progress. Well,
and do you think all things being equal, because this
is something else we talked about, and we talked about
you know this, this initial reticence. Would it be great
(07:35):
if if Mr Charming and Mr Wonderful existed, uh and
and was interested in taking you for golfe. I actually
have to say and admit that I didn't interview with
entertainment tonight today. And they guessed. So they asked me
the same question, and they said, so, who would be
your ideal boyfriend? And I said, or and what occupation
would that be? And I said, probably a neuroscientist. And
(07:56):
they guessed the neuroscientist that I had a crush shot,
or that I have a crush on. Isn't that crazy? Anyway?
And I want to tell you who what his name is?
His name is Dr Andrew however Hubert Tit Oh god,
I forgot his last name anyway, Hooverman anyway from Stanford.
All right, well, you know what, you're a Bay area person.
(08:16):
Let's yeah, I do not think wrong with putting the
word out there. You never why not? Crazier things have happened? Yeah,
I know, No, I know. And by the way, this
is like a good like it's it's kind of like
an excuse for me not to have to approach it myself. Right,
So I just say it out to the public and
for sure I'll reach him at some point, right, right,
I would think I think it day. Well, there's a
(08:37):
right now in Palo Alto. Somebody's like, excuse me, doctor, Yeah, exactly.
This is girl named Sheryl Brook, also from Palo Alto,
has a huge crush on you. Anyway, We've got a
great guest today that we've got, Janet Kramer, and she
talked about someone who's been vulnerable. I mean, I am
a huge fan of her podcast, Going Down. Have to
give he heard of it before? Alright, sure, have no.
I've talked to her many times. She's she's a great career,
(08:59):
but she also has navigated an enormous amount of ups
and downs in the public eye to a large Yeah.
I mean she's publicly got a divorce basically right her
husband and her co hosted Wine Down and now no longer.
Now it's obviously Jane's um and I just appreciate her
vulnerability and I've learned actually so much from her podcast actually,
so I'm very excited to talk to her. Be right
(09:21):
back with Janna Kramer. Hi are you okay? How are you?
I am good? A little tired today, but good. You're beautiful.
(09:41):
Thank you. It's so good to see you. And I'm
so happy that you're doing this podcast. Thank you. I'm
to talking to you and picking my brain about everything.
Of course, girl, I got you, I got you, I
got you. So how are you. I've been listening to
I mean, I've always listened to your podcast, and I
have to say that I really love the episode with
that Irish guy who writes the book who wrote Love
(10:05):
Love un fund or something. He was amazing, Oh my gosh,
because I can't even it just like it triggered something
nasty in me, but that it also like made me
just soak you. So I'm listening to this book right
now in audible and it's freaking amazing. Yeah, he's like
he was the Actually it's a really good I want
to go back and listen to and the things he
said because he was just so spot on with you know,
(10:28):
with with just everything, reliscountability, like the fact that he
said and it's so true, it's a hundred percent true.
It's just that it's hard for people, I think too,
and for me, by the way, to really point the
finger at yourself when you know things get complicated, for sure,
how are you, by the way, Like, I'm okay. You know,
(10:49):
it's been a rollercoaster ride of emotions. I am still
grieving and I think I will be for a while.
It's um, it hasn't been as easy as maybe I
never would think it would be easy, but I guess
it was just the pain of it, right, like you never.
I'm still grieving my father's passing. So it's like there's
(11:10):
just a lot, a lot, right and I'm choosing to
feel my feelings, which brings up so much shipped from
the past, um that I don't know. It's it's difficult.
There's days and mornings and nights that I miss him
like crazy, you know, and it sucks. But um, ultimately
I know that it's what's best. But it's hard to
kind of have that realization sometimes when you're in it,
(11:35):
when you're in the emotion. And I've chosen to really
like not alienate myself, but too, I know myself when
it comes to feeling my feelings that I tend to
please other people, Like I don't. I get too scared
about what people are thinking about me when I'm feeling
my feelings. So I've chosen to really be alone and
feel because like I can't mask it anymore. It's too much. Yeah,
(11:59):
I am. I've kind of gotten to a place where
holding and what would help me like in my healing process, um,
just with relationships, life and just in general, is like
holding space for both um saying said it's family, but
it's and it's like I'm hurting and I'm healing, like
I miss him and I'm going to be okay, And
(12:20):
it's like space for both has been like such a
such a helpful tool for me to realize it's like
both things can exist, like I can, I can move
on and I'm still healing, you know, um and not
you know, it's just it's just holding space and I
just I that's been something that's been great because I
feel like it has to be kind of like one
(12:42):
or the other. And it's like it's not black and white,
like it's relationships, life, love and nothing is black and
white with with that, and so it's like to be
able to go like okay, like today I might feel
great and tomorrow might really hurt. You know. Yeah, yeah, no,
I'm very black or white. I'm working on this. There
be currently it's uh, there is a gray area there
(13:03):
is a middle ground, and I just don't. I think
my brain is very black or white. So I'm like,
that's a great advice, thank you. I'm actually getting an
and like and that's an amber sand I think tattoo
like I'm gonna get it and just like right here
in my army. Just remember like it is. It is
okay to be you know, um in in both places
(13:24):
and you will be fine and you will you know total.
I feel it's like, you know, remember some total you know.
The dating world is just like right, I'm not looking
forward to that. Yeah, it's not like you know, it's
it's um it's interesting. But I remember a guy said
to me, um, you know, call me when you heal,
(13:45):
and I'm like, oh yeah, and I just remember going
that's so triggering for me. Oh yeah, well it's triggering.
Also it's like you're almost taking like yeah, and I'm like, yeah,
I know, I have like healing work to do, but
like I will be I'm not holding onto it anymore.
It's just some days not you know, I'm feeling there's
(14:08):
no like hocus pocus. I'm healed either like I either
want to be in it with me or not, Like
you're also being honest and true with your feelings. You
just couldn't handle it and we can have like bad days,
and so I just remember going, yeah, now I'm actually
good like you can you can walk away? Wait how
did that? So? How did that come up with as
part of your dating process? Like how did you? First
(14:28):
of all? How long until you started dating? Um? I
definitely I should have waited a little bit longer. Um.
That is definitely something I look back on and go
but and UM, it taught me a lot of things too.
And I will say, like I just got back from
(14:49):
this amazing place, and I would I really encourage you
to do. It's called on site. I've been a couple
of times. But where is it. It's it's in Nashville.
There's actually a place in San Diego. They just opened
it there. But I would I would say it's not
I should say Nashville. It's it's like an hour and
a half outside of Nashville. But it's a it's a there.
It's a experiential experiential therapy workshop place. And so it's
(15:11):
like and for me, like I've I've done the group setting,
like the Living Centered program twelve years ago and then
with Um. Then I was just like I need to
just get into a room with a therapist for four days.
It was like six hours a day and within a
room with this and just like hash out some of
these like patterns and and for me, like, I don't
(15:35):
think I would have been able to see some of
those things if I did it, yeah, like right after
the divorce, you know, Like I think like you go
through that process of like numbing out with it's like
going on a date with a guy or like and
it gets sure, that's not the healthiest thing to do.
But I don't think I would have been ready to
do that work a year ago as opposed to like
(15:56):
the work I just did, you know this last week
and it's like this mind blown experience where like oh wow,
like I needed to kind of go through the last
year to get me here to where I'm like feel good.
So is it like a so is it one on
one or is it a group setting so you can
do whatever you want. I chose to do an individual um,
just because I really needed to, Like pleas are focused,
(16:17):
Like here's my issues? Why do I keep picking the
same man? Why do you know? What what does that say?
What does it say? About me and I learned from
it was like I didn't realize how much shame I
was holding onto. So like I thought shame was something
that my ex dealt with, you know, and like because
he did things wrong in the marriage. And it's like, no,
like the shame messages where it was like I didn't
(16:38):
feel good enough and I deserved it, and I like
don't deserve respect just were the things that I was
like holding onto and it was just like holy crap,
Like I didn't realize that was right. And so do
you You do have your own therapist, right I do? Yeah,
she's amazing her so much. And so with this, do
(16:58):
you have to like my whole thing? It's like that
overwhelming feeling of having to explain everything again and you're like,
oh my god, Like it's overwhelming, you know, to have
to like talk through like what happened to me as
a kid, the trauma and my dad cheating on my
mom and then me getting sexually molested and then me
getting into the horrible it's like it's just like that's
going to take five hours, which is why it's it's
(17:19):
really the transition is so hard for me. And then
on top of it, I have social phobia, so like
anything group, anything, it really scares me, well and you
can and you can do intensive and kind of what
we did was like it was you know, I get
the whole thing, like having to say everything again the
same thing. It's like, okay, yes, this is what happened.
I was when I was five years old. That was
the first time I was scared of a man, and
then my duch, my mom, and then that made me
(17:39):
feel abandoned and then I'm not good enough and it's
like so it's like I definitely get that process. But
it was a sheet of paper and she just made
me pinpoint like the trauma points and then like the
messages and then we just went off of that and
then you know we had experiential like talking from the
other you know people, and I was able to like
you know, reverse roles and it was it's wild. Yeah, amazing.
(18:04):
It's like a rehab, but for like therapy. Yeah, it's
a rehabby your heart, for your heart. Yeah, for yourself
actually with everyone should be a part of That's so cool.
And do you have any other like did you ever
go on other retreats or is this like would this
be considered a retreat or would this be considered more
like yeah, because I mean it's definitely there wasn't anything
like well, I mean like I was gonna say there's
(18:27):
something any fun about anything fun about it, but um,
so it's fun for me. Yeah, And the on'st thing
I love, like learning and growing, like doing doing the
hard work. Um and the community there, like you end up.
Even though I was comhensive, there was a community there,
and it was just I didn't want to leave and
(18:47):
I didn't have my phone, and at the end of
the day, like everyone tried out and just like exhausted
that like we all kind of came together and just
like became this like family of like we're we all
have issues and we all just need love and support.
Yeah that's great. Yeah it was. But it wasn't like,
let's go do yoga in the morning and then go
(19:11):
down this cute little waterfall. Like I definitely room for
six hours a day. I went to one of those
let's go do yoga in the morning, and I was
like action. And then group dinners with name tags and
I was like, mom, I can't do this, mom My mom.
And I went to this Call of VI like retreat,
which I loved. Yeah, I was so happy that you
did that. Looks like really, um, like you were refreshed
(19:33):
and it was I didn't. I didn't choose to do
the group yoga's or the group, you know, but it
was still nice just to get out and be with
my mother. But anyway, UM, it's just been really challenging
with my sobriety as well, just to like, I guess
still try to figure out my own identity if that
makes any sense, and then also my own identity without
(19:54):
somebody with me because I got sober a while I
was so. Um, it's interesting too for the first time
feel certain feelings that living alone again, you know what
I mean, and just um figuring out life and the
dog and you know, simple things but big things because
I used to, I guess, depend on him a lot more.
(20:18):
Can I ask a question around around that? Because he
was like, you're I don't say this person person going
becoming sober? Has that been? I know, I read an
article saying that you've definitely um struggled with right staying
(20:38):
sober then came out, But like do you think it
was because like, like okay, I'll say this. My my
ex husband was kind of like my anxiety blanket. So
it's like I needed him to be with me because
or I needed to um uh like, oh god, I
(21:00):
can't sign this thing like he's like because he was
he would always like he because I kind of worked
through my anxiety like a lot, like in the marriage,
and that kind of like made him be like my
blanket of my anxiety. Right. But the weird thing was
like when I got out of it, I had zero anxiety,
Like I've had the least anxiety in my entire life.
So it's like, I'm curious if you if you've seen
(21:21):
anything where it's like yes, like you've struggled with it,
but is there a piece of you that's um where
you realize like maybe something that was like like for me,
like my act was actually making my anxiety worse. Yes, yes,
Well I see a difference in the dog. Is that
weird to say? I mean like dogs do feel energy.
I mean I also see a difference in um in
(21:44):
the way I handle things, right, Like I I've always
said you are who you hang out with, right, So
there'd be like little tendencies that started to happen, like
I would leave the fridge open too, I run the
water longer than I normally do, and I actually started
not liking that so of me all of a sudden,
you know. And but when it comes to just the
(22:05):
you know, right now, my house is going under renovations
at the moment, and the energy of the house is
completely different. Because I hear it from other people that
walk in. They're just like, it's so much more calmer
and it's peaceful and um, and I just think that
I my expectations right like are not being let down
anymore in a way like I feel that I don't know,
(22:30):
I think my expectations in general are so high that
moving forward, what I've learned most really is um that
I need to not have such high expectations because then
I'm setting myself up for failure. I think, in general,
what do you fear for the next chapter? Well, first
of all, I just fear dating. I freaking don't. I
(22:53):
don't love going out, let alone, going out sober and
meeting new people. I'm mean, this is exactly why I
have sociophobia. And on top of it, it's like the
small talk and the oh hi, how are It's just
like and then if I do like somebody's like waiting
by the phone, like I don't like that feeling, yeah,
you know, and like right, like, god forbid, is this
(23:18):
guy gonna text back? How long is it going to be?
Like I actually don't like that, and I feel so
um desperate in a way, in a weird way, you know.
And um, the whole dating app thing scares me a
little bit too. I'm just like, there's gotta be some
people out there that just want to like try this
old the old fashioned way, you know. Yeah, no, I
definitely hear that. And it's something where I feel like, um,
(23:42):
for the last year of kind of being single, Um,
I put myself on trial and that's not how it
should have been. And I think it was what do
you mean by that? So I I put myself on
trial to be like are you gonna pick me? Am
I going to be? And it's like I shouldn't put
(24:04):
myself on trial. They should be on trial where it's
like enough for me, yes, you know. And it's like
but I think, because you know, I had all those
like shame messages, I just again, you're right, Am I
good enough? Are you're gonna love me? Am I lovable?
Because I've been told not and I've been told that
I'm this and I'm so it's like so I just
(24:25):
had that like constantly questioning yourself like are you good enough?
And if this person is going to define it by
if his response basically exactly and so you know, and
that's like such a and I've been able to like
see the like twist and the change into that where
it's like, you know, I'm not waiting by the phone
if someone's not texting me, it's like I know my worth.
(24:47):
So like girls, you didn't want to text me, but
like if you don't, like cool because I'm not like
gonna and I think like getting that power back and
like not putting myself on the trial has been like
switched to now obvious slay. There's moments where I'm like,
that's like you know yeah, and also like if someone
doesn't because I'm not a small talker, I'm like, this
(25:08):
is my ship. This is what I've done. You probably
would read about it anyways, UM, X, Y and Z
and here it is. Yeah, I love that, but I'm
not like but I'm not you know, I'm not going
to make excuses for it. I'm not gonna say sorry
for it. This is what I learned this is who
I am today. So it's either you know, believe it
(25:29):
kind of thing that's amazing. I mean, that's the thing
that I aspire. No, it's not. I don't think it
is at all. And I think that, Look, I aspire
to be where you are today because I don't think
i've ever had UM. I don't think I've ever not
put myself on trial like I don't think i've ever
I don't know if I'm there yet to say that,
you know, to really believe that I'm good enough, that
(25:50):
I that no other man is going to define me,
or that UM, I go through insecurities, you know, and
I think that that has a lot like you said
to do with shaneam And until I am able to
call it out and really do the work, um, which
I'm starting to definitely do, then I don't think that
I can get there organically or even be But this
(26:11):
is why I say I want to wait to date,
because until I'm there, I'm going to repeat the same
pattern and I'm gonna end up with the same person.
Well here's here's the thing that I'll say to that.
So I've been getting my shame messages since I was five.
How old were you I was four, Okay, so how
many years So that's thirty that we have heard those messages.
(26:37):
Girlfriend is never gonna leave us. No, we will always
struggle with not feeling chosen. And it's gonna suck when
someone because it's going to ignite those like just like
it'll like but that is and I'm also knowing, Okay,
when I go there, I have to affirm myself. No,
I am good at like I I am going to
choose myself or I'm not going to stay in this situation.
(26:57):
That's that's not serving me. And those those messages will
always be there. It's just what I do with them,
and if I believe them or not, like if I
give them more power than what I would tell like
you know they talk about your inner child, it's like
that's my my little girl inside of me deserve to
feel this way. No like that. Having said that, we've
(27:19):
had so many of these messages for our entire life
that of course, like we're going to deal with that forever.
The power too, But you also said is something that
is um key believing it and I am definitely I
know intellectually what to say and I can give advice
and I know what that their therapeutic way to say things.
(27:41):
And I know what I need to do eventually, but
I don't believe it yet. Sure, I mean, it's just
that's the thing. It's like it's a you know, the
thing that we were doing process. Yeah, it's on site.
You know, I'm chucking these rocks, like you know, abuse
and like I don't you know, thinking I deserved abuse
and like yeah, and she's like, say the thing back
and like I'm just like bawling, and I'm like, well
(28:02):
what if I do? And then it's just so it's
like that like just retraining your brain that like people
deserve that, and like and I know that people don't
deserve that. But then I you know, of course it's
it goes back to me and it's like, you know,
I love yourself how you would love your friends back?
But don't you think though that I actually And the
(28:23):
question was this to the audience the last episode was
you know, I was talking to Teddy and Tamara about
this and I was saying, you know, I'm just not
ready because Tamra's advice was to get over someone, get
under somebody else, and it's like that to me is
actually I am a professional number, Like I actually can
do that easily. But that's I'm trying to break the pattern, right,
(28:44):
I'm trying to actually break it so that I look
within and that I start to do the work from within,
because I could easily be distracted, I could easily be
all up in whatever it is in order to numb
right that, Now that I don't have drugs and alcohol,
it's like, now I can just figure it out, because
I can't. I'm a professional number. But I'm really trying
to sit in it. And I think I need to
(29:05):
feel that pain and that emptiness in order to start
building that foundation again, if that makes any sense. Yeah,
and and believing in yourself so that way you don't
repeat the pattern, the same pattern, because it's because again
the messages like we will continue to repeat if we
don't break that cycle totally here. Like I've always I
have always put my worth in me being in a
(29:29):
relationship and a man. Yes, that has always defined me.
And if I wasn't in a relationship, well guess what
that means. I'm not lovable, I'm not chosen enough. Um,
And then when I am with someone, I'm like, oh
my god. So I'm like it's just that like it's
like I want to be so solid in myself that
like cool if a man comes in, cool if he doesn't.
(29:50):
You know. Yeah, that's the work that I've been doing
the past, you know, a few months. And well are
you there, I will say. And so I just got
you know, back from the earth treats. So right now
I'm all like self love. I don't. I'm definitely like
people still, um. And I also know that I'm not
going to let myself be in bad relationships again. And
(30:13):
so when I said, when you know, someone lies to
me again, like I'm gonna be like no, like I
don't deserve that, and I'm out or you know, um,
if they don't respect me like I will, I will
leave so much sooner. And I've done a better job
of leaving of leaving sooner than I haven't the um.
But again, it's just you know, I write write things
(30:35):
on my mirror like I'm enough, I'm worthy, okay, And
it's like just like seeing the positive messages instead of
the negative ones heads just like as elementary as that is, No,
it's not I do the same thing totally. Yeah, um.
And now it's kind of like you know, yeah, you know,
like I'm just texting someone, but it's like like I'm
(30:56):
not gonna put like, hey, I'm not going to put
myself on trial. So if you don't want to get
to do right right cool and be like I don't
really need it, which is kind of nice, and like
I'm kind of looking forward to like singles hawk girl summer.
It s like like not even do just like going
to have fun, Like it's arrangement. Now. I'm like, all right,
I got like a week to go see my friend
(31:18):
in West Palm or a week to go see my
girlfriend in Colorado, and just like not like, oh well
this guy. It's like no, like I don't want to
live my life for a thing, right you want to
do you? Yeah, yeah, that's important. So I know you're
just in a relationship. Back to the question of like
because I'm just trying to figure it out for myself,
Like I know there's no rules, but like I don't
even see myself dating anytime soon, right, Like, and I
(31:40):
mean I just know that I can't give I don't
have I don't have anything to give at the moment
I need to. I owe so many years to myself
that I don't think that I would be of any
I guess it be a waste of time. Like, honestly,
I think that I would get so consumed with that
person as I do, I get very obsessed and consumed
(32:01):
with one person sometimes that it's just totally will take
me off track. So I'm being very um, like I'm
not teching anybody, Like there's nobody right, nobody around. Um.
And so how long did how long was that from
your separation? I guess to you dating, how long did
you take? So again, it was something where I should
have I should have taken more time. Um. So I
(32:25):
separated in April, and I started hanging out with someone
in July, um in and that ended in August, you
know what I mean. So it was so it's like
that was that was fast, um. And then I, you know,
took another break and then I started dating that one
guy and September that in October and then I met
(32:49):
you know, and then I was like, Okay, I'm ready
to have a boyfriend. But I think at the time,
like again, I wish I would have just um, I
wish I would have taken six months just to like
not focus my whole thing. Again, was like I am
I'm not whole unless I'm in a relationship, and so
(33:11):
I'm trying to find like who's who's my like, who's
gonna be my tryings and like you know, just like
and and and then you know you you end up
staying in or I do is I end up staying
in situations that don't serve me at all and that
you aren't good for me? And then I repeat the
same pattern and ends up being the same man. And
I'm like, because I'm just grasping for like someone, it's
(33:34):
my focus is my kids and just continually believe that
I that I am worthy and then I'm deserving of
a love. And I'm a big believer that you know
when that all aligns, like He'll God, God will send
me my man. So and how have you? Thank you
for letting me know and telling me. I know it's
(33:55):
private information, but um, it really helps you know, just
to feel like I'm not alone. But when it comes
to being alone now and waking up alone when you
don't have your kids, how does how do you feel?
Is it all new to you? Do you feel like empty?
Or I go and waves So it's um again, It's
(34:17):
like I was forced to file for divorce. It was
something that I never wanted to do. I didn't really
have a choice. Um, And it's really hard not having
my kids. And also my marriage was very toxic. So
I'm so thankful my kids aren't in that environment anymore.
(34:37):
I'm thankful I'm not in the environment anymore. So, Yeah,
am I lonely and sad that my kids aren't here? Absolutely,
Like I hate it. It tears me apart. And I
also know that they're getting they're going, they're going, they're
experiencing happier, healthier mom, they're experiencing a happier and healthier dad.
Um when they are here, I just really cherished the
(34:58):
times that I have with them. Yeah. Uh, because here's
the deal. I can I can cry about all I want,
and I have those moments where I definitely get sad
and it sucks and I'm like, I don't it doesn't
make sense and it's not what I wanted and I
hate it, Like what is that doing for me? Though?
You know, it's like I can't change it being back
(35:19):
together ever, So like this is just like this is
just what it is. And now I to go, Okay,
how am I going to make this the best experience
for everyone, and what am I going to do in
this process when my kids aren't here? So you know,
last night I had a girl's night and I stayed
up really late and I would sleep in and like,
you know, take care of some self care and you know,
I'm so good, good for you. It's the holidays though,
(35:42):
that really get me. Um. Yeah, this will be the
first year that I don't have them Christmas morning, Like
that's gonna stay. And I will for sure ugly cry
because that's because that's how you feel. Yeah, painful. And
so you know, speaking of kids, do you think I should? Um?
So I'm like in the like do I freeze my
(36:02):
eggs or not? I'm thirty eight years old? Um. And
I also suffer from the body dysmorphia. So it's like
I have this thing in my head where it's like
I can't freeze my egg until I have a man
or I can't freeze my eggs until I'm retired off
of the show, because you know, if I gain a pound,
god forbid, I'm gonna my mental health will be at risk. Um.
What do you think of freezing my eggs? I guess
(36:24):
for freezing eggs in general, do you want kids. I
don't necessarily I'm not like saying yes, I but I'm
also saying I'm not saying no, I don't like I
want to have the option in when you're seventy on
your front porch, on your little whatever chair threats if
(36:46):
you didn't have a kid, yes, freeze your eggs. Okay, thanks,
that helps. Yeah, no, I've never thought of it like that,
because yeah, you're right, like there is I don't like
to live in the what if you know, and might
not have an option. It's not like I'm actually having
a kid. Well there's it's it's there. And at the
(37:07):
end of the day, if you're so, I've got a
girlfriend she's forty, Um, still hasn't found the one. Fine,
don't find the until later in life or at least
I pray for our safety, like because I mean I
would like to, like, you know, eventually, like I want
to share your life with somebody. Yes, I'm a companionship. Yes, um,
(37:31):
too bad. I don't like sorry, but I know seriously, man, Like,
so my friends who's forty so she's like hasn't found
it and she's like at the point where she froze
her eggs when she was thirty five and now she's
like considering getting an embryo or like the y and
(37:57):
I'm like, also do that, because like you're eating for
this person that might not come for the next he
might not come for the five years, and then you're
gonna be like, man, I wish I would have like
tried or because yeah, being a single mom is hard,
but you can do it, and you can do it
like you would you can you can definitely do it.
Of course you want to do it with someone. And
(38:19):
but I'll also say when I was, you know, raising
my kids, I was so alone. It was like, you know,
because he wasn't really you were basically doing it alone. Yeah,
so you know, you know, it's one of those things.
And also like when I met my ax and he
had cheated two weeks into us dating, I stayed because
I'm like, well, I'm thirty, I'm gonna be thirty one.
(38:39):
I need tough kids. And it's like, don't settle either
or the then you're in this situation. But also like
to say, with my parents before we were really quick,
I was just going to add that my mom was
a single parent, my dad cheated on her, and at
the end of the day, Like I don't think I
would be where I am today if they stayed together, right,
Like sometimes it get better better for the psyche and
(39:01):
just in general the environment it's just so toxic. But
thank you Janna so much for doing this. And I
appreciate everything that you do and all the work you
do and keep it up. So thank you. Well. I
love you and I appreciate you, and I know that, um,
I know this is a really really hard season. Yeah,
and give yourself like a ton of grace totally, and
(39:24):
um yeah, I just I know, I I know and
believe for both of us, for other ladies out there,
and there's always like the silver lining in the end,
and there's the light that will come. It's just you've
got to walk through the dark path to get there.
Unfortunately for it's always light. I don't believe that anyone,
(39:47):
um or I mean, you know, yeah, but I just
I always believe like there is light at the end
of the tunnel, Like it's just it's a minute sometimes
to get there. And it's like I'm still like as
happy as I am, Like I still have my moments
of yeah, you know, I still wonder, like am I
ever gonna someone ever gonna love me again. And also
it's kind of like one day you will have that
(40:09):
feeling and I'll have that feeling again of falling in
love hopefully again and like that and hopefully it's it's real,
and you know, because yea many these days. Christ, they're good,
they're good, they're they think with one thing. Yeah, anyway,
I love you too. Let me know when you're in
(40:30):
l A and we'll this romance between me and you together.
It's dude, like, clearly I'm like, well Glenn and Doyle like,
I'm like, she maybe had something on it, you know,
but I still don't like so regretting. I know, I
like Dick. But I'll be there for you emotionally, Okay,
I'll be there for you emotionally. Perfect. All right, Well,
let me know next week and we'll get together, okay,
(40:51):
by friends, see you alright, guys. So, we got lots
of responses from listeners from episode one question of the week,
which was when do you think you're ready to date
again after a breakup? And I want to read one
of the first emails that I've gotten from Jeff. So
(41:15):
Jeff says, Hi, Cheryl, where to start first? Of all
wow in caps and lots of exclamation points. To listen
to you on this podcast. Being so open and honest
and raw is really a privilege, and I'm so appreciative
that you are allowing me, as a fan to get
a glimpse into your real life and into the difficulties
that we all face. Perhaps I'm guilty of assuming that
you have less problems than the rest of us because
(41:36):
of being a champion dancer. It's enlightening to be able
to see the challenges that you have to deal with.
F y, I I am fifty eight, just turned fifty
eight on my third We have the same birthday. Happy birthday.
Jeff married for thirty five years with three grown kids.
So let me say relationships are harder, and even after
thirty five years, still require constant work. But if you
find someone who is willing to put in that work,
(41:56):
it is so worth it. I wish I could give
you a big hug and tell you that everything is
going to be okay, but since I can't, I just
want to say thanks for allowing yourself to be so vulnerable,
and hopefully you'll be able to grow and learn things
about yourself from this podcast, From everything I've read and
watched and heard about you. You seem to be a
wonderful person who someone will be so lucky to be
in a relationship with you one day. In the meantime,
(42:17):
I will be continuing to listen to your journey. Please
stay strong and take one day at a time. Excuse me,
Thank you, Jeff. That is so encouraging. Your words are beautiful,
and yes, it really is just one day at a time,
right Like I I, you just really can't control or
predict the future, and that's what I'm learning. So thank
you for listening and thank you for your beautiful email.
(42:39):
UM alright, So, as you guys know, at the end
of every episode, UM I asked a question to you listeners,
and the question for this week's episode is what is
the key to getting back your confidence after a breakup?
So make sure you email us at work in the
Game at iHeart radio dot com or d m s
on Instagram at Burke in the Game. Again, the question
(43:01):
is what is the key to getting back your confidence
after a breakup? Thank you, guys, and see you next week.
Thanks for listening and coming along this journey with me.
If you like what you hear, then feel free to
give this podcast five stars. You can also follow along
with my journey on Instagram at burke in the Game
and if you have any advice or want to write in,
then email me at burke in the Game at I
heart radio dot com
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