October 3, 2025 • 32 mins
In this interview episode, Cal sits down with Representative Gabe Vasquez of New Mexico to talk about targeting catfish in D.C., legislation that hunters should care about, and so much more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
From Meat Eaters World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
This is Col's Week in Review with Ryan cow Calaan.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Here's Cal.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
All right, Cal's week in Review Listeners, we got another
exciting interview segment. We're getting super political because we have
New Mexico Representative Gave Vasquez the Land of Enchantment with
us this week, and we're going to talk about some
(00:42):
of the federal level news that is pertinent across the country,
but also in Representative Asquez district in New Mexico. And
we're also going to talk about taking advantage of hunting
(01:04):
and angling opportunities near you when you're living life on
the road, such as are duly elected due when they're
bouncing back and forth between their home states and Washington,
d C. So welcome Representative Asquez.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Thanks Cal, it's great to be on here with you today.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Well, great to haven't you. What for our listeners, what
is your district?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yeah, well, let me just say I have one of
the most beautiful districts in the Southwest. I'd say across
the nation. My district is bigger in size than the
state of Pennsylvania. Just for reference for our listeners, we're
home to two National parks, White Sands and Carsbad Caverns.
We've got four National forests that includes the Hila, the
birthplace of America's wilderness. We've got world class hunting and
(01:53):
fishing opportunities, tons of public land, and some really beautiful,
diverse communities, including seven different indigenous communities. We're also home
to the chili capital of the world, which is Hatched,
New Mexico. And so for anyone out there that puts
green chili or red chili in their recipes, I hope
it's coming from Hatch.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Otherwise it probably doesn't taste this good.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
But to get a sense of it, it spans from
Albuquerque all the way down to the US Mexico border,
which is about one.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Hundred and eighty miles the entirety of the.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
US Mexico border in New Mexico, and then from Arizona
to Texas, so it's really about half the state.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
It's one of the largest districts in the country.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
That's a lot, a lot to bite off.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
And it's where folks come and hunt that orx that
everyone you know fantasizes about getting there there once in
a lifetime.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Tag.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I'm jealous because I've heard on many podcasts and for
many stories about out of staters getting that once in
a lifetime and I've been putting in for it for
about a decade now.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
It's laughing front to tag.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
But we're also home to the oryx, you know, barbary sheep, ibex,
some of the exotics that are out here too.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
They're not fenced in, they're out in the wild.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I love New Mexico the sense of hospitality. New Mexican
hospitality is like a very real thing and very food centric,
which I love. New Mexicans by and large have a
real sense of pride in in their landscapes and their
(03:26):
their state and the opportunities and it's just, you know,
it's kind of like a heartwarming thing to be around.
It's a it's a slightly different culture than than what
I grew up with in Montana, but very similar in
the fact that people are are kind of tied to
the land, which yeah, I love.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
No And I think if you look at the most
beautiful flag in the United States, that that is the
Sacred zea symbol from the Zia Pueblo, that that represents
a perfect unity amongst cultures and our ties to the land.
So if you ever wonder what that zia on that
yellow flag is about. It's about who we are as
(04:09):
cultures united and about our connection to the land.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
So it makes sense that you'd say.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
That, Oh, okay, so what you're You're a hunter and angler.
Give us a little sense of your background.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
And yeah, so I you know, I grew up. I
grew up here along the banks of the Rio Grand,
both in Mexico and in New Mexico. And you know,
my first experiences were going out cat fishing with my dad,
my brother, sometimes my grandpa when he had some time,
and we spent most of our time underneath the overpasses
on I twenty five in places like Hatch or the
(04:45):
Messia Dam, fishing the mighty Rio Grand and mostly channel cats,
the occasional blue cat, and when we got lucky, a
flathead or two, especially if we're using bigger bait, and
of course all those annoying bullheads that you catch all
over the place, but of course don't make for good eating.
But that's really how I started. And my grandfather, his
(05:07):
name was Javier Banolos, and he lived in Siatuadas, Chihuaha,
and his passion was was hunted. He came from from
a small farming village called El Remorino or the Whirlwind,
in the central state of Sacatecas. And when he came
to the city, he missed the outdoors and and sustenance
(05:29):
hunting so much that he actually started the city's first
hunting club, so SATs They had a club called the Santaudos,
and my grandfather basically got a bunch of his buddies
together that came from ranches all across the country that
had moved to the border and moved to the to
the Frontea and they'd go out to the Sierra Madre,
(05:50):
better known as kind of the Copper Canyon for many folks,
and so at the at the northernmost easternmost edge the
San Luis Mountains, that's where you know, my grandfather would
take us.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
You know, he had he had ten kids because.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
He's Hispanic and Catholic, and so I was a product
of a big family. And and you know, you learn
all about the ins and outs of conservation and responsibilities
that you have.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
And when your grandpa tells you to do something, you
do it.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
But he also teaches you about you know, the things
you know why you can't keep a certain fish, or
that one time he got really mad at me for
actually putting a turtle back that we could have eaten,
and I said, I didn't think we ate turtles, and
he said, oh man, he said, you're not gonna eat
dinner tonight.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
And so you learn those lessons early on.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
But he hunted everything from from Koo's deer to puma
or mountain lion. Caught a ton of bass and lots
of hovelina as well, and that was all the food
that ended up going back on our plates. And so
at my grandma's house, where you had, you know, twenty
twenty five people running around every night to feed that
(07:01):
many kids and grandkids, you know, you eat what's on
your plate, and most of the time it was it
was wild gaming. And you know, that was a different
upbringing for most kids in a place that's industrialized. You know,
half a million people or more at that time in Chiahaguadas,
and so, you know, those that combination of experiences of
getting to experience the rivers of New Mexico, you know,
(07:24):
laying under the.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Stars with my dad and my brother and and then.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Going back to the city and seeing how much my
grandfather just cared for for the outdoors and and how
you know, how how dedicated he was to making sure
that with a family that big, he could still take
some time for himself and honestly, you know, some time
with his buddies too. My grandma wasn't too happy about
that when he'd be gone for four or five days.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
But that's that's a little bit about how I grew up.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
And you know, from there I went on to try
to hunt and fish as much as I could, and
so my go to was always walleye. So we've got
two reservoirs here, Elfant, but Kabaya Lake, and believe it
or not, there's some really good walleye fishing, at least
there wasn't that time when I was growing up, and
they make for the best eating, but also a lot
(08:12):
of white bass, a lot of black black bass, small
mouth and large mouth. And then eventually, you know, I
got into rabbit hunting, and from there it went into hovelina,
which is you know, that was how I learned how
to use a bow as well, because it's an easy
target and they're not that smart. And then you know,
worked my way up from there to at that time,
(08:32):
my grandpa had passed and and you know, I really
wanted to to get back into the tradition, the family tradition,
and so hunting coups deer out on the border or
something I really enjoyed doing. And any chance I get now,
you know, anything that I can learn, whether it's fishing
for HeLa trout or fishing for artichard and the Artic
tundra in Alaska, I'm all about it. You know, I
(08:53):
really cherish that time, especially now that I get so
busy these days.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Well yet it's it's hard when you have those interests
and then you take on a role, which is a
voluntary role. Nobody forced you into running for the House
of Representatives, and but there's some trade offs there.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Right, Yeah, yeah, there definitely are.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I mean, just just the amount of space that that
you have to work with here in Washington, d C.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Is I just say, it's really annoying.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
You know, I'm used to big, beautiful, wide open landscapes
and you come here and you're cooped up in a
tiny apartment. If you're lucky to have a backyard, you know,
it's a ten x ten little square and it's just
it's not home.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
And so that transition coming from New Mexico to d C.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
I think for many Westerners who are used to this
kind of lifestyle or who represent these rural districts, it
can be tough. You know, it can get kind of
claustrophobic at times. And so there's nearby trails here. You know,
there's local parks, places like Rock Creek Park, which I
spend a lot of time in, but they always have
something going on. Cal you know, there's there's so many
(10:10):
bikers and trailer runners and hikers, I.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Mean, you name it.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
It doesn't seem like I can I can honestly get
on a trail here without seeing you know, two hundred
people on any given day. So you got to you
gotta search for places out in Maryland or Virginia or
West Virginia where I've spent some time as well, to
try to find that quiet in that piece when when
you can get away. But you know, there's there's a
(10:35):
guy I think you know him, Chris would from Trout Unlimited.
And when I when I first came here to d C,
I hooked up with Chris and he, you know, he
turned me onto a place called Fletcher's Coat and that's
still within the city limits. It's about I don't know,
twenty twenty five minutes away from where I live here
on Capitol Hill, and it sits on the edge of
(10:57):
the Cno Canal, right next to the Potomac, where you
have just this bunch of concrete that was dumped from
the construction of the Cno Canal and a bunch of
rocky slabs on the shore that that actually make for
some great cover for all types of fish.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
And so I first got here and Chris and I
went out there.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
We caught some nice stripe bass, and so I go
back when I can to fish there also now for catfish.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
You know, they got a boat dock, so I ran,
I ran a kayak.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
I bring my fishing rods, and I like to get
out there and paddle and find those holes. And you know,
I'll be honest with you, the fishing set are not
great there except during the shad run, which I still
have yet to experience. But you know, I was there
just just last weekend, and there's actually a bunch of
guys that are that are out catfishing out there. You'll
see them along the side of the Potomac, and I
(11:44):
always wonder how the heck they got there, and they're
fishing with with fishing line and gatorade bottles, so I
suspect they may be fishing to for sesssenence as well.
But you know, there's there's more places out there that
you can get out. But it is a tough transition.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
I mean, I think it's cool that you're you're making
it happen though. You know, one of my consistent grapes,
especially during the beginning half of the year here, is
how in my belief system, any elected official who has
(12:22):
experienced public lands and what they can provide would not
be in the business of selling them off. And it's
that lack of connection. So you know, it's important to
me that even though the fishing may not be great,
you're still making it happen here and there.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, I mean you still you still get to see
the osprays, You get to see those little leather back turtles.
I don't know what species they are, but they hang
out on the rocks a lot. You might get to
see bald eagle or two. That makes it all worth
it for me, and I need that time when I'm
out here, if i'm if I'm here long enough to
be able to enjoy a trip out there. It's really important.
(13:02):
And you know what, I've been trying to take my
staff out there too. You know, the the Anacostia River,
which is which is here as well, makes for some
great cat fishing. And in fact, you know, I took
one of my staff members out there just recently and
we were we're catfishing out.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
On a little boat dock.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
And the next actually within a couple of weeks, one
of my other staffers said, hey, you know, i'd really
love to go.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Can somebody take me fishing?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
And she actually, you know, she works on her public
lands portfolio. She's also a vegetarian. She's okay with me
saying this, and so I said, are sure you want
to go cat fishing? And she caught her first catfish
just a few days ago. So this might just become
a ritual or write a passage for anyone who's employed
in our office.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
So that's one of the things that we connected on
here is there's this article with the very catchy headline
congressman's dirty eating habits I could jeopardize path to the
majority for Democrats.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
That's hilarious.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
That's pretty weighted comment there.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
You know, it's it's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Because I you know, I look at where I come from,
or catfishing to us is a tradition. I mean, it's
part of who we are because you know, many people
in the south and the Southwest, you know, where we
have warm waters New Mexico, Texas, Arizona, catfishing isn't looked
down upon. Catfish aren't dirty fish.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
They make for really good eating. And so you know,
that's just how we grew up.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
And so not everyone might understand that, you know, on
the East coast or or even up north. But I'm
proud that not only did I get started fishing on catfish,
but but I still enjoy it today.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
You know, it brings back good memories.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
And by the way, I think you and I talked
about this a little bit too, there are some some
lunkers out there. Wow, in the Potomac. I mean, look
at what guys like earning the hawk snatcher pulling out
of that river with in city limits. You know, you
see the Washington Monument back and then somebody pulling out
a sixty pound blue catfish.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
There's truly some monster fish in there.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
So it's you know, if you get out there and
you find those opportunities it's really cool, and so you
know they they'll try. As a politician, look, they'll attack
you for just about everything. You can't blink, you can't
take a step forward or backwards without somebody criticizing you
for it.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
But that's the job that we take.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
And if they're going to hit me on calf fishing,
then I'll probably defend that every day of the week.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Earnie the Hogsnatcher slowly becoming a national hero here by
the way, God just fishes. I love it.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Yeah it is.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
I know we're tight on time, which is my fault,
but what we have roadless rule right now. One thing
that hasn't like quite hit the presses is the fact
that the Ryan Sammarad, the lead attorney for the defense
side the Missouri fur on the Corner Crossing case, they
(16:04):
just submitted their brief to the United States Supreme Court
yesterday and we're gonna now it's kind of like in
their hands as to whether or not they're going to
hear the Corner Crossing case. But New Mexico it's relevant
because New Mexico is within the tenth surcit And I
(16:29):
haven't looked specifically on on X but I can imagine
there probably are some like corner locked lands within a
district that big in New Mexico.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Oh, there's there's a lot.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
There's quite a bit and effect I was, you know,
before I got this job, I was out with my
Onyx app with my hunting buddies right that I hoe
down in Deming and we were mapping out some of
these corner crossing areas by ourselves so that we could
talk to the State Land Office. You know, New Mexico
looks maybe a little bit in terms of the challenges
(17:01):
that we have then places like Wyoming. But we do
still have a lot of checker boarded land. But what
we've seen in New Mexico is that a lot of
folks have made some backroom deals with the State Land
Office to you know, purchase these different little strips of
property that essentially, you know, prevent the access to thousands
(17:23):
of acres of federal land. I fought a big fight
at a place called the Phelips Canyon Road in a
very conservative county. This was in Chavis County near Roswell,
New Mexico, and asked some of the best barbary sheep
hunting and some pretty good elk hunting out there as well,
and this guy, essentially, you know, he wanted to have
a county road vacated so that we'd lose access to
(17:46):
about seven thousand acres of blm land. And you know,
we brought together hunters and anglers of all political stripes.
We went into that county commission meeting. We said, you
cannot vacate this road because you were essentially given seven
thousand acres to a private and and.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
We think that might be against the anti donation clause.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
It's a lot that we have here in the state
of New Mexico, and not just that, but this is
where our kids hunt, you know, and Barbari sheep hunting
out in that country is a big deal. And so
we were actually able to stop the vacation of that road. Now,
that was about ten years ago, and that was when
I was working at the New Mexico Wildlife Federation. So
we have those access issues here all across New Mexico.
(18:24):
They may look a little bit different, but I think
in general, look when we look at purposeful intent to
limit access to the public, and when private landowners have
essentially public land playgrounds that they market. You know, we've
seen these real estate ads that are out there that
basically say, you know, not only are you buying a
(18:47):
you know, ten thousand acre ranch, but you've got another
fifteen thousand acres to hunt on. And the way that
E plus and A plus are set up here in
the state of New Mexico is that you know, you
can essentially sell those out tags, those private tax or
analyot tags for ten twelve thousand dollars and you have
exclusive access just for you and your clients to both
(19:07):
hunt on your private property and your public property. So
I know there's been a lot of work done on that,
and I think this case in particular, look whether it
goes with a Supreme Court and successful or not, I
think this fight that is ongoing is really important for
us to have this conversation about what public land access
looks like. And one of my missions here in Congress
(19:31):
is actually we're working on some legislation now is to
figure out how to open up more landlocked public land
across the country and to be able to have the
purchasing power not through just LWCF, but also the support
of the Department of Interior, so that if we are
all in agreement and a bipartisan agreement that landlocked public
(19:51):
land does is no good unless you have a helicopter
that we should move forward in an aggressive way to
figure out how we can unlock the these lands. And
so I can't tell you what the Supreme Court is
going to do on this case. I can't tell you
what the impacts will be. I'm not a lawyer. I
do know that, you know, for for myself, you know,
(20:14):
I obviously would like to have a successful ruling on
this case that that confirms the lower Court's ruling. But
in the in this in the case that we don't,
it will be a setback. But I think that's when
we really turn on the gas and and say, if
it is the mission of the Department of Interior in
this administration and by partisan agreement, that we need to
open up more landlocked lands, then let's figure out a
(20:36):
way to do that. And I'll say I have a
bill to do that. So we're gonna we're going to
continue to work on that and hopefully roll it out
soon and hopefully it's something that this bipartisan Public Lands
Caucus can support too, which is something I started with
with Representative Zinki and we're kind of working on, you
know what pieces of legislation we're going to center around
this caucus.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Well, well that's exciting to hear, so please please let
us know, get us on the press list if when
you're ready to roll that language out. Yeah, and you
said the word intent, and it's from the very beginning
of this particular issue getting national interest. It's like most things,
(21:23):
just a little more complicated than the headlines lead people
to believe. And quite unfairly, every landowner gets lumped in
with the bad actors who have the intent to lock
up public ground from the public, which is unfair. And
(21:48):
the intent on an access seeker side actually has a
huge amount to do with this particular case where according
to the Unlawful Enclosures Act, if your intent is to
go from public ground to public round, that that's actually
(22:09):
what matters. And obviously, you know we have bad actors
on the hunting side of things too that could take
advantage of some of this. So, in my opinion, it
does need It's not going to be perfectly cut and dry.
Even if the Supreme Court weighs in in what I'm
(22:32):
going to say is our favor in the public access favor,
it's going to need a little more structure guardrails to
you know, ensure private property rights that we hold deer
in this country are are upheld well and respectively as
but it should be on the same status and tier
(22:54):
as the public access seeker.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
That's my soapbox. No, I think you're right.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
I don't think we want and you know, thousands of
people out there with step ladders going over pasture fences
across the West.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
I don't think that's the intent of opening up these opportunities.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
I think it really just highlights a larger, larger issue
that to your to your point, needs more structure, it
needs it needs a way for us to responsibly access
those lands. And and you know that that may force
some negotiations between private landowners and and uh, you know,
departments of Wildlife and Game and fish and those kinds
of things, or some rulemaking, whether that's at the state
(23:34):
level or at the federal level. But I agree with you,
I don't think we want to also create an unecessary
burden the public to private landowners. And you know, I
know firsthand private landowners contribute to such important habitat work,
and and you know I'm a I'm a private land
rights guy in that sense, but I've also just like
(23:55):
there's bad actors on our side, there's bad actors on
their side too, and so we've got to come to
a consensus of how we solve some of these complex issues.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
You brought up, Lwcful. We could talk about the Secretarial
Order three four four two that just came out, but
I know there's also a lot of implications in your
district regarding the Roadless Rule and yeah, the yeah, you
know the recision of that.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Yeah, the roadless Rule. This one's really important to me.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
The Roadless Rule protects seven hundred and thirty thousand acres
in the Heala National Forest. And you know, you think
about our conservation legacy, the nation's first wilderness, the legacy
that Aldo Leopold left behind, and also a place that
is wholly in my district, and it's it's where I
go to find peace and where I go to fish
and camp and you know, take my family out there
(24:46):
and go sit in the hot springs. I mean, you
name it. It's a special place for me. And part
of the reason is that it is. It is remote,
it is remarkable, it is rugged, and you got to work.
You got to work to find those special places. It's
not like you know a national park where you can
drive into a visitors center and you know, buy a
couple of goodies and go on a trail and make
(25:09):
your way.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
It's it's really a remote and beautiful place.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
And so I think the truth is, like any other forest,
you know, we have to have adaptive management for things
like wildfire suppression, and the twenty twelve Forest Rule that
many forests are implementing, including the HeLa, allow for that,
which means that you can you can change certain management
conditions on the ground on the fly, depending on things
(25:35):
like changing climate, extended drought, you know, wildlife corridors, and
you know, different things that come along the way. So
these new forest plans aren't as rigid as they were before,
and many of them hadn't been updated for twenty thirty years.
And so when we see the impacts of things like
overloaded fuels with recent fires in the HeLa like the
(25:56):
trapped fire and the blackfire, I do agree that we
have to do something to help clear some of that
deadwood to reduce that fuel load.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
But the roadless rule is not the answer for that.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
You know, we've got a dedicated set for service staff
and volunteers out there that are doing that work, prescribe
burns every year.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
But you know, truth be told, cal we don't have
enough of them.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
We need adequate staffing levels at the Force Service and
other land management agencies to put a debt in our
fuel load. And when it comes to timber harvesting, you
know the market and the volume, at least in places
like the Hila, they just aren't there, and as I
suspect that they're not there in other national forest But
this is being used as the principal reason to repeal
(26:37):
the rule. And so there are opportunities for partnerships already
and contracts that help produce things like biofuel and other
niche products in certain parts of the country that partner
with local businesses that are for profit. And so we
should really think about how we can support world communities,
in forced bedroom communities in particular that can benefit economically
(26:59):
from things like for thinning.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
But I think.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Reviving a wholesale timber industry under the guise of repealing
the world this rule is just not going to happen.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
It doesn't make sense for a place like the Hila.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
So I'm a sponsor of the Roadless Worldless Area Conservation
Act and I'd encourage anyone listening to contact your members
of Congress invite them to join that bill as a
co sponsor as well.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Roadless Area Conservation Act. Do you want to tell us
a little bit more about that one, because it's honestly
not on my radar. I will tell you I'd met
with two one retired for a supervisor last night and
one active for a supervisor last night, and this was
obviously the topic. So my research it essentially says that.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah, it essentially codifies the rule. That's basically what it does.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
So it makes it a congressional law rather than administrative
rule making.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Okay, it you know, my research says that the roadless
rule recision just simply cannot be about timber because even
the timber companies are saying this isn't going to make
economic sense.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
So, yeah, some of that mitigation work that you're talking about,
it does employ people. It is largely like physical manual
labors still in a lot of places, especially that steep,
nasty stuff, and there are some economic benefits to get
(28:33):
some of that stuff going. But that that domestic board
foot lumber scenario from everyone I've talked to, that is
not going to happen.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
No, I don't think it is.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
And you know, I recently met with a bunch of
employees at the Forest Service.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Some of them are about to be riff. They're about
to lose their jobs.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
And they had just come many of them working from
other industries, and honestly, a lot of them had gone
through a bunch of tough times in their life.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
They came from Arizona, from Colorado.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Some of them were, you know, they're having personal issues
and they wanted to go out in the forest.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
They wanted to work.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Hard, and they said the saddest thing about losing their
jobs and they were doing maintenance, you know, trail work,
thinning work, that kind of stuff. So the hardest thing
about losing this job is that this was the answer
for me when I needed most in my life.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
And I don't make a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
I can barely get by, but being out here every
day and doing this work is so important to me
or important to me and my families.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
You know, some folks bring their kids and their families down,
and that.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Was heartbreaking because there's not a lot of people in
this country that want to do that work. You know
that the amount of physical strenuous labor that you got
to do, and in remote areas in the case of
the Hila, you know, we got a huge chunk of wilderness.
So nobody's picking you up in the for service truck.
You're you're walking in and walking out for miles on end.
(30:04):
So you know, we need more of those folks. It's
gainful employment and rural communities. Those folks buy local homes,
you know, they go to local businesses.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
We need more of that, not less of that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
The one of the things that really got glossed over
during the early uh dose days is, Uh, every industry
has has some bums, has some folks that aren't shouldering
the load. But in this particular industry, Uh, there's a
(30:35):
hell of a lot of people that are real civil
servants and they're they're working out there for us, for
for you and me, just as much as they are
for themselves.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
That's right, And uh, you've.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Got to figure out a way to celebrate those folks
and lift them up and not concentrate on again the
the what I believe is the vast, vast minority who
they're not good at that job, and they weren't good
at the job they had before.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
So that's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Yeah, well, thank you so much, Congressman for sharing some
time with us today. And you did a good job
of not talking about any specific honey holes there in
the DC area, so we're not going to add to
the overcrowding side of things, but it's good to know
that there's some opportunities out there as well.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Yeah, yeah, no, I encourage any of my colleagues or
anybody who comes and works in Washington. You know, it's
a little bit out of the way. There's a ton
of traffic on all these freeways. It's kind of a
heading to get out there, but it's totally worth it.
And I'm learning, you know, when I go out about
new ecosystems, neat birds, new species, new places to visit,
(31:54):
and it can really help cool down your internal temperature
of the politics of Washington, d C.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
And I think hopefully we'll get to do a little
bit more of that here.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
You know, I'm part of the Congressional Sportsman's Caucus and
you know, put together this Public Lands Caucus, so you know,
more and more folks are reaching out to me now
than tell me about some of those spots, and I'm
grateful for them, so keep it coming because I'm gonna
be here.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
For a while.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
So thank you so much, Kyle. Appreciate everything that you
do and look forward to seeing you soon
From Meat Eaters World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
This is Col's Week in Review with Ryan cow Calaan.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Here's Cal.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
All right, Cal's week in Review Listeners, we got another
exciting interview segment. We're getting super political because we have
New Mexico Representative Gave Vasquez the Land of Enchantment with
us this week, and we're going to talk about some
(00:42):
of the federal level news that is pertinent across the country,
but also in Representative Asquez district in New Mexico. And
we're also going to talk about taking advantage of hunting
(01:04):
and angling opportunities near you when you're living life on
the road, such as are duly elected due when they're
bouncing back and forth between their home states and Washington,
d C. So welcome Representative Asquez.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Thanks Cal, it's great to be on here with you today.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Well, great to haven't you. What for our listeners, what
is your district?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yeah, well, let me just say I have one of
the most beautiful districts in the Southwest. I'd say across
the nation. My district is bigger in size than the
state of Pennsylvania. Just for reference for our listeners, we're
home to two National parks, White Sands and Carsbad Caverns.
We've got four National forests that includes the Hila, the
birthplace of America's wilderness. We've got world class hunting and
(01:53):
fishing opportunities, tons of public land, and some really beautiful,
diverse communities, including seven different indigenous communities. We're also home
to the chili capital of the world, which is Hatched,
New Mexico. And so for anyone out there that puts
green chili or red chili in their recipes, I hope
it's coming from Hatch.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Otherwise it probably doesn't taste this good.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
But to get a sense of it, it spans from
Albuquerque all the way down to the US Mexico border,
which is about one.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Hundred and eighty miles the entirety of the.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
US Mexico border in New Mexico, and then from Arizona
to Texas, so it's really about half the state.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
It's one of the largest districts in the country.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
That's a lot, a lot to bite off.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
And it's where folks come and hunt that orx that
everyone you know fantasizes about getting there there once in
a lifetime.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Tag.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I'm jealous because I've heard on many podcasts and for
many stories about out of staters getting that once in
a lifetime and I've been putting in for it for
about a decade now.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
It's laughing front to tag.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
But we're also home to the oryx, you know, barbary sheep, ibex,
some of the exotics that are out here too.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
They're not fenced in, they're out in the wild.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I love New Mexico the sense of hospitality. New Mexican
hospitality is like a very real thing and very food centric,
which I love. New Mexicans by and large have a
real sense of pride in in their landscapes and their
(03:26):
their state and the opportunities and it's just, you know,
it's kind of like a heartwarming thing to be around.
It's a it's a slightly different culture than than what
I grew up with in Montana, but very similar in
the fact that people are are kind of tied to
the land, which yeah, I love.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
No And I think if you look at the most
beautiful flag in the United States, that that is the
Sacred zea symbol from the Zia Pueblo, that that represents
a perfect unity amongst cultures and our ties to the land.
So if you ever wonder what that zia on that
yellow flag is about. It's about who we are as
(04:09):
cultures united and about our connection to the land.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
So it makes sense that you'd say.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
That, Oh, okay, so what you're You're a hunter and angler.
Give us a little sense of your background.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
And yeah, so I you know, I grew up. I
grew up here along the banks of the Rio Grand,
both in Mexico and in New Mexico. And you know,
my first experiences were going out cat fishing with my dad,
my brother, sometimes my grandpa when he had some time,
and we spent most of our time underneath the overpasses
on I twenty five in places like Hatch or the
(04:45):
Messia Dam, fishing the mighty Rio Grand and mostly channel cats,
the occasional blue cat, and when we got lucky, a
flathead or two, especially if we're using bigger bait, and
of course all those annoying bullheads that you catch all
over the place, but of course don't make for good eating.
But that's really how I started. And my grandfather, his
(05:07):
name was Javier Banolos, and he lived in Siatuadas, Chihuaha,
and his passion was was hunted. He came from from
a small farming village called El Remorino or the Whirlwind,
in the central state of Sacatecas. And when he came
to the city, he missed the outdoors and and sustenance
(05:29):
hunting so much that he actually started the city's first
hunting club, so SATs They had a club called the Santaudos,
and my grandfather basically got a bunch of his buddies
together that came from ranches all across the country that
had moved to the border and moved to the to
the Frontea and they'd go out to the Sierra Madre,
(05:50):
better known as kind of the Copper Canyon for many folks,
and so at the at the northernmost easternmost edge the
San Luis Mountains, that's where you know, my grandfather would
take us.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
You know, he had he had ten kids because.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
He's Hispanic and Catholic, and so I was a product
of a big family. And and you know, you learn
all about the ins and outs of conservation and responsibilities
that you have.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
And when your grandpa tells you to do something, you
do it.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
But he also teaches you about you know, the things
you know why you can't keep a certain fish, or
that one time he got really mad at me for
actually putting a turtle back that we could have eaten,
and I said, I didn't think we ate turtles, and
he said, oh man, he said, you're not gonna eat
dinner tonight.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
And so you learn those lessons early on.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
But he hunted everything from from Koo's deer to puma
or mountain lion. Caught a ton of bass and lots
of hovelina as well, and that was all the food
that ended up going back on our plates. And so
at my grandma's house, where you had, you know, twenty
twenty five people running around every night to feed that
(07:01):
many kids and grandkids, you know, you eat what's on
your plate, and most of the time it was it
was wild gaming. And you know, that was a different
upbringing for most kids in a place that's industrialized. You know,
half a million people or more at that time in Chiahaguadas,
and so, you know, those that combination of experiences of
getting to experience the rivers of New Mexico, you know,
(07:24):
laying under the.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Stars with my dad and my brother and and then.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Going back to the city and seeing how much my
grandfather just cared for for the outdoors and and how
you know, how how dedicated he was to making sure
that with a family that big, he could still take
some time for himself and honestly, you know, some time
with his buddies too. My grandma wasn't too happy about
that when he'd be gone for four or five days.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
But that's that's a little bit about how I grew up.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
And you know, from there I went on to try
to hunt and fish as much as I could, and
so my go to was always walleye. So we've got
two reservoirs here, Elfant, but Kabaya Lake, and believe it
or not, there's some really good walleye fishing, at least
there wasn't that time when I was growing up, and
they make for the best eating, but also a lot
(08:12):
of white bass, a lot of black black bass, small
mouth and large mouth. And then eventually, you know, I
got into rabbit hunting, and from there it went into hovelina,
which is you know, that was how I learned how
to use a bow as well, because it's an easy
target and they're not that smart. And then you know,
worked my way up from there to at that time,
(08:32):
my grandpa had passed and and you know, I really
wanted to to get back into the tradition, the family tradition,
and so hunting coups deer out on the border or
something I really enjoyed doing. And any chance I get now,
you know, anything that I can learn, whether it's fishing
for HeLa trout or fishing for artichard and the Artic
tundra in Alaska, I'm all about it. You know, I
(08:53):
really cherish that time, especially now that I get so
busy these days.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Well yet it's it's hard when you have those interests
and then you take on a role, which is a
voluntary role. Nobody forced you into running for the House
of Representatives, and but there's some trade offs there.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Right, Yeah, yeah, there definitely are.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I mean, just just the amount of space that that
you have to work with here in Washington, d C.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Is I just say, it's really annoying.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
You know, I'm used to big, beautiful, wide open landscapes
and you come here and you're cooped up in a
tiny apartment. If you're lucky to have a backyard, you know,
it's a ten x ten little square and it's just
it's not home.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
And so that transition coming from New Mexico to d C.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
I think for many Westerners who are used to this
kind of lifestyle or who represent these rural districts, it
can be tough. You know, it can get kind of
claustrophobic at times. And so there's nearby trails here. You know,
there's local parks, places like Rock Creek Park, which I
spend a lot of time in, but they always have
something going on. Cal you know, there's there's so many
(10:10):
bikers and trailer runners and hikers, I.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Mean, you name it.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
It doesn't seem like I can I can honestly get
on a trail here without seeing you know, two hundred
people on any given day. So you got to you
gotta search for places out in Maryland or Virginia or
West Virginia where I've spent some time as well, to
try to find that quiet in that piece when when
you can get away. But you know, there's there's a
(10:35):
guy I think you know him, Chris would from Trout Unlimited.
And when I when I first came here to d C,
I hooked up with Chris and he, you know, he
turned me onto a place called Fletcher's Coat and that's
still within the city limits. It's about I don't know,
twenty twenty five minutes away from where I live here
on Capitol Hill, and it sits on the edge of
(10:57):
the Cno Canal, right next to the Potomac, where you
have just this bunch of concrete that was dumped from
the construction of the Cno Canal and a bunch of
rocky slabs on the shore that that actually make for
some great cover for all types of fish.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
And so I first got here and Chris and I
went out there.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
We caught some nice stripe bass, and so I go
back when I can to fish there also now for catfish.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
You know, they got a boat dock, so I ran,
I ran a kayak.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
I bring my fishing rods, and I like to get
out there and paddle and find those holes. And you know,
I'll be honest with you, the fishing set are not
great there except during the shad run, which I still
have yet to experience. But you know, I was there
just just last weekend, and there's actually a bunch of
guys that are that are out catfishing out there. You'll
see them along the side of the Potomac, and I
(11:44):
always wonder how the heck they got there, and they're
fishing with with fishing line and gatorade bottles, so I
suspect they may be fishing to for sesssenence as well.
But you know, there's there's more places out there that
you can get out. But it is a tough transition.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
I mean, I think it's cool that you're you're making
it happen though. You know, one of my consistent grapes,
especially during the beginning half of the year here, is
how in my belief system, any elected official who has
(12:22):
experienced public lands and what they can provide would not
be in the business of selling them off. And it's
that lack of connection. So you know, it's important to
me that even though the fishing may not be great,
you're still making it happen here and there.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, I mean you still you still get to see
the osprays, You get to see those little leather back turtles.
I don't know what species they are, but they hang
out on the rocks a lot. You might get to
see bald eagle or two. That makes it all worth
it for me, and I need that time when I'm
out here, if i'm if I'm here long enough to
be able to enjoy a trip out there. It's really important.
(13:02):
And you know what, I've been trying to take my
staff out there too. You know, the the Anacostia River,
which is which is here as well, makes for some
great cat fishing. And in fact, you know, I took
one of my staff members out there just recently and
we were we're catfishing out.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
On a little boat dock.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
And the next actually within a couple of weeks, one
of my other staffers said, hey, you know, i'd really
love to go.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Can somebody take me fishing?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
And she actually, you know, she works on her public
lands portfolio. She's also a vegetarian. She's okay with me
saying this, and so I said, are sure you want
to go cat fishing? And she caught her first catfish
just a few days ago. So this might just become
a ritual or write a passage for anyone who's employed
in our office.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
So that's one of the things that we connected on
here is there's this article with the very catchy headline
congressman's dirty eating habits I could jeopardize path to the
majority for Democrats.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
That's hilarious.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
That's pretty weighted comment there.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
You know, it's it's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Because I you know, I look at where I come from,
or catfishing to us is a tradition. I mean, it's
part of who we are because you know, many people
in the south and the Southwest, you know, where we
have warm waters New Mexico, Texas, Arizona, catfishing isn't looked
down upon. Catfish aren't dirty fish.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
They make for really good eating. And so you know,
that's just how we grew up.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
And so not everyone might understand that, you know, on
the East coast or or even up north. But I'm
proud that not only did I get started fishing on catfish,
but but I still enjoy it today.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
You know, it brings back good memories.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
And by the way, I think you and I talked
about this a little bit too, there are some some
lunkers out there. Wow, in the Potomac. I mean, look
at what guys like earning the hawk snatcher pulling out
of that river with in city limits. You know, you
see the Washington Monument back and then somebody pulling out
a sixty pound blue catfish.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
There's truly some monster fish in there.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
So it's you know, if you get out there and
you find those opportunities it's really cool, and so you
know they they'll try. As a politician, look, they'll attack
you for just about everything. You can't blink, you can't
take a step forward or backwards without somebody criticizing you
for it.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
But that's the job that we take.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
And if they're going to hit me on calf fishing,
then I'll probably defend that every day of the week.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Earnie the Hogsnatcher slowly becoming a national hero here by
the way, God just fishes. I love it.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Yeah it is.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
I know we're tight on time, which is my fault,
but what we have roadless rule right now. One thing
that hasn't like quite hit the presses is the fact
that the Ryan Sammarad, the lead attorney for the defense
side the Missouri fur on the Corner Crossing case, they
(16:04):
just submitted their brief to the United States Supreme Court
yesterday and we're gonna now it's kind of like in
their hands as to whether or not they're going to
hear the Corner Crossing case. But New Mexico it's relevant
because New Mexico is within the tenth surcit And I
(16:29):
haven't looked specifically on on X but I can imagine
there probably are some like corner locked lands within a
district that big in New Mexico.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Oh, there's there's a lot.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
There's quite a bit and effect I was, you know,
before I got this job, I was out with my
Onyx app with my hunting buddies right that I hoe
down in Deming and we were mapping out some of
these corner crossing areas by ourselves so that we could
talk to the State Land Office. You know, New Mexico
looks maybe a little bit in terms of the challenges
(17:01):
that we have then places like Wyoming. But we do
still have a lot of checker boarded land. But what
we've seen in New Mexico is that a lot of
folks have made some backroom deals with the State Land
Office to you know, purchase these different little strips of
property that essentially, you know, prevent the access to thousands
(17:23):
of acres of federal land. I fought a big fight
at a place called the Phelips Canyon Road in a
very conservative county. This was in Chavis County near Roswell,
New Mexico, and asked some of the best barbary sheep
hunting and some pretty good elk hunting out there as well,
and this guy, essentially, you know, he wanted to have
a county road vacated so that we'd lose access to
(17:46):
about seven thousand acres of blm land. And you know,
we brought together hunters and anglers of all political stripes.
We went into that county commission meeting. We said, you
cannot vacate this road because you were essentially given seven
thousand acres to a private and and.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
We think that might be against the anti donation clause.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
It's a lot that we have here in the state
of New Mexico, and not just that, but this is
where our kids hunt, you know, and Barbari sheep hunting
out in that country is a big deal. And so
we were actually able to stop the vacation of that road. Now,
that was about ten years ago, and that was when
I was working at the New Mexico Wildlife Federation. So
we have those access issues here all across New Mexico.
(18:24):
They may look a little bit different, but I think
in general, look when we look at purposeful intent to
limit access to the public, and when private landowners have
essentially public land playgrounds that they market. You know, we've
seen these real estate ads that are out there that
basically say, you know, not only are you buying a
(18:47):
you know, ten thousand acre ranch, but you've got another
fifteen thousand acres to hunt on. And the way that
E plus and A plus are set up here in
the state of New Mexico is that you know, you
can essentially sell those out tags, those private tax or
analyot tags for ten twelve thousand dollars and you have
exclusive access just for you and your clients to both
(19:07):
hunt on your private property and your public property. So
I know there's been a lot of work done on that,
and I think this case in particular, look whether it
goes with a Supreme Court and successful or not, I
think this fight that is ongoing is really important for
us to have this conversation about what public land access
looks like. And one of my missions here in Congress
(19:31):
is actually we're working on some legislation now is to
figure out how to open up more landlocked public land
across the country and to be able to have the
purchasing power not through just LWCF, but also the support
of the Department of Interior, so that if we are
all in agreement and a bipartisan agreement that landlocked public
(19:51):
land does is no good unless you have a helicopter
that we should move forward in an aggressive way to
figure out how we can unlock the these lands. And
so I can't tell you what the Supreme Court is
going to do on this case. I can't tell you
what the impacts will be. I'm not a lawyer. I
do know that, you know, for for myself, you know,
(20:14):
I obviously would like to have a successful ruling on
this case that that confirms the lower Court's ruling. But
in the in this in the case that we don't,
it will be a setback. But I think that's when
we really turn on the gas and and say, if
it is the mission of the Department of Interior in
this administration and by partisan agreement, that we need to
open up more landlocked lands, then let's figure out a
(20:36):
way to do that. And I'll say I have a
bill to do that. So we're gonna we're going to
continue to work on that and hopefully roll it out
soon and hopefully it's something that this bipartisan Public Lands
Caucus can support too, which is something I started with
with Representative Zinki and we're kind of working on, you
know what pieces of legislation we're going to center around
this caucus.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Well, well that's exciting to hear, so please please let
us know, get us on the press list if when
you're ready to roll that language out. Yeah, and you
said the word intent, and it's from the very beginning
of this particular issue getting national interest. It's like most things,
(21:23):
just a little more complicated than the headlines lead people
to believe. And quite unfairly, every landowner gets lumped in
with the bad actors who have the intent to lock
up public ground from the public, which is unfair. And
(21:48):
the intent on an access seeker side actually has a
huge amount to do with this particular case where according
to the Unlawful Enclosures Act, if your intent is to
go from public ground to public round, that that's actually
(22:09):
what matters. And obviously, you know we have bad actors
on the hunting side of things too that could take
advantage of some of this. So, in my opinion, it
does need It's not going to be perfectly cut and dry.
Even if the Supreme Court weighs in in what I'm
(22:32):
going to say is our favor in the public access favor,
it's going to need a little more structure guardrails to
you know, ensure private property rights that we hold deer
in this country are are upheld well and respectively as
but it should be on the same status and tier
(22:54):
as the public access seeker.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
That's my soapbox. No, I think you're right.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
I don't think we want and you know, thousands of
people out there with step ladders going over pasture fences
across the West.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
I don't think that's the intent of opening up these opportunities.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
I think it really just highlights a larger, larger issue
that to your to your point, needs more structure, it
needs it needs a way for us to responsibly access
those lands. And and you know that that may force
some negotiations between private landowners and and uh, you know,
departments of Wildlife and Game and fish and those kinds
of things, or some rulemaking, whether that's at the state
(23:34):
level or at the federal level. But I agree with you,
I don't think we want to also create an unecessary
burden the public to private landowners. And you know, I
know firsthand private landowners contribute to such important habitat work,
and and you know I'm a I'm a private land
rights guy in that sense, but I've also just like
(23:55):
there's bad actors on our side, there's bad actors on
their side too, and so we've got to come to
a consensus of how we solve some of these complex issues.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
You brought up, Lwcful. We could talk about the Secretarial
Order three four four two that just came out, but
I know there's also a lot of implications in your
district regarding the Roadless Rule and yeah, the yeah, you
know the recision of that.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Yeah, the roadless Rule. This one's really important to me.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
The Roadless Rule protects seven hundred and thirty thousand acres
in the Heala National Forest. And you know, you think
about our conservation legacy, the nation's first wilderness, the legacy
that Aldo Leopold left behind, and also a place that
is wholly in my district, and it's it's where I
go to find peace and where I go to fish
and camp and you know, take my family out there
(24:46):
and go sit in the hot springs. I mean, you
name it. It's a special place for me. And part
of the reason is that it is. It is remote,
it is remarkable, it is rugged, and you got to work.
You got to work to find those special places. It's
not like you know a national park where you can
drive into a visitors center and you know, buy a
couple of goodies and go on a trail and make
(25:09):
your way.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
It's it's really a remote and beautiful place.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
And so I think the truth is, like any other forest,
you know, we have to have adaptive management for things
like wildfire suppression, and the twenty twelve Forest Rule that
many forests are implementing, including the HeLa, allow for that,
which means that you can you can change certain management
conditions on the ground on the fly, depending on things
(25:35):
like changing climate, extended drought, you know, wildlife corridors, and
you know, different things that come along the way. So
these new forest plans aren't as rigid as they were before,
and many of them hadn't been updated for twenty thirty years.
And so when we see the impacts of things like
overloaded fuels with recent fires in the HeLa like the
(25:56):
trapped fire and the blackfire, I do agree that we
have to do something to help clear some of that
deadwood to reduce that fuel load.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
But the roadless rule is not the answer for that.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
You know, we've got a dedicated set for service staff
and volunteers out there that are doing that work, prescribe
burns every year.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
But you know, truth be told, cal we don't have
enough of them.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
We need adequate staffing levels at the Force Service and
other land management agencies to put a debt in our
fuel load. And when it comes to timber harvesting, you
know the market and the volume, at least in places
like the Hila, they just aren't there, and as I
suspect that they're not there in other national forest But
this is being used as the principal reason to repeal
(26:37):
the rule. And so there are opportunities for partnerships already
and contracts that help produce things like biofuel and other
niche products in certain parts of the country that partner
with local businesses that are for profit. And so we
should really think about how we can support world communities,
in forced bedroom communities in particular that can benefit economically
(26:59):
from things like for thinning.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
But I think.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Reviving a wholesale timber industry under the guise of repealing
the world this rule is just not going to happen.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
It doesn't make sense for a place like the Hila.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
So I'm a sponsor of the Roadless Worldless Area Conservation
Act and I'd encourage anyone listening to contact your members
of Congress invite them to join that bill as a
co sponsor as well.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Roadless Area Conservation Act. Do you want to tell us
a little bit more about that one, because it's honestly
not on my radar. I will tell you I'd met
with two one retired for a supervisor last night and
one active for a supervisor last night, and this was
obviously the topic. So my research it essentially says that.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah, it essentially codifies the rule. That's basically what it does.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
So it makes it a congressional law rather than administrative
rule making.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Okay, it you know, my research says that the roadless
rule recision just simply cannot be about timber because even
the timber companies are saying this isn't going to make
economic sense.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
So, yeah, some of that mitigation work that you're talking about,
it does employ people. It is largely like physical manual
labors still in a lot of places, especially that steep,
nasty stuff, and there are some economic benefits to get
(28:33):
some of that stuff going. But that that domestic board
foot lumber scenario from everyone I've talked to, that is
not going to happen.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
No, I don't think it is.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
And you know, I recently met with a bunch of
employees at the Forest Service.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Some of them are about to be riff. They're about
to lose their jobs.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
And they had just come many of them working from
other industries, and honestly, a lot of them had gone
through a bunch of tough times in their life.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
They came from Arizona, from Colorado.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Some of them were, you know, they're having personal issues
and they wanted to go out in the forest.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
They wanted to work.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Hard, and they said the saddest thing about losing their
jobs and they were doing maintenance, you know, trail work,
thinning work, that kind of stuff. So the hardest thing
about losing this job is that this was the answer
for me when I needed most in my life.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
And I don't make a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
I can barely get by, but being out here every
day and doing this work is so important to me
or important to me and my families.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
You know, some folks bring their kids and their families down,
and that.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Was heartbreaking because there's not a lot of people in
this country that want to do that work. You know
that the amount of physical strenuous labor that you got
to do, and in remote areas in the case of
the Hila, you know, we got a huge chunk of wilderness.
So nobody's picking you up in the for service truck.
You're you're walking in and walking out for miles on end.
(30:04):
So you know, we need more of those folks. It's
gainful employment and rural communities. Those folks buy local homes,
you know, they go to local businesses.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
We need more of that, not less of that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
The one of the things that really got glossed over
during the early uh dose days is, Uh, every industry
has has some bums, has some folks that aren't shouldering
the load. But in this particular industry, Uh, there's a
(30:35):
hell of a lot of people that are real civil
servants and they're they're working out there for us, for
for you and me, just as much as they are
for themselves.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
That's right, And uh, you've.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Got to figure out a way to celebrate those folks
and lift them up and not concentrate on again the
the what I believe is the vast, vast minority who
they're not good at that job, and they weren't good
at the job they had before.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
So that's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Yeah, well, thank you so much, Congressman for sharing some
time with us today. And you did a good job
of not talking about any specific honey holes there in
the DC area, so we're not going to add to
the overcrowding side of things, but it's good to know
that there's some opportunities out there as well.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Yeah, yeah, no, I encourage any of my colleagues or
anybody who comes and works in Washington. You know, it's
a little bit out of the way. There's a ton
of traffic on all these freeways. It's kind of a
heading to get out there, but it's totally worth it.
And I'm learning, you know, when I go out about
new ecosystems, neat birds, new species, new places to visit,
(31:54):
and it can really help cool down your internal temperature
of the politics of Washington, d C.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
And I think hopefully we'll get to do a little
bit more of that here.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
You know, I'm part of the Congressional Sportsman's Caucus and
you know, put together this Public Lands Caucus, so you know,
more and more folks are reaching out to me now
than tell me about some of those spots, and I'm
grateful for them, so keep it coming because I'm gonna
be here.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
For a while.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
So thank you so much, Kyle. Appreciate everything that you
do and look forward to seeing you soon
Host
Cal Callaghan
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