July 15, 2024 • 45 mins
Jessica opens up for the first time with details of a very difficult time in her parenting journey, as Camilla attempts to examine her own relationship with her mother.
Plus, find out what happens when you come face-to-face with navigating a new period of parenting.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Call It What It Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camil Luddington,
an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hello Call It Crew, and welcome to a new episode
of Call It What It Is?
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Well.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hello, Hi, Hi, how are you? I'm in the summer.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
You're in summer saying? Yeah, oh, this is the home
edition for me. This is my first time at home
talking to you. It's coming live from my bedroom.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
From your bedroom. I love it, intimate, sexy, we're bringing
the sexist episode. No, when I say summer, I don't
mean like relaxing summer vibes. I mean like kids, Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Do you mean that moment when you realize that they're
out of You're so excited for them to be out
of school, You're so excited for summer mode, and you
have like that first couple of days where you're like,
I don't need to wake up for anything, I don't
need to do that morning rush, I don't need to
do anything. And then it's day three or four and
you're like, okay, but what do I need to do
with them now?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Where do they go? Who's going to entertain them?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yeah? Like where are your parents?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Where are your parents?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
There's there someone to take care of you.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, who's taking care of you? It's not me?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
No.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I signed Hayden up for every camp under this some
of them I don't even know. I'm like, what is that?
Can't you know like a horror movie camp? Great? Sign
her up?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
What is that?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Nine to nine pm? Perfect?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I signed her for so many camps and then this
week I did not have her any in any camps,
and next week I don't And I was like, yeah,
it was because I was like thinking to myself, Oh,
this will be so nice. She'll be at home. We
can we can make smores.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
We can like guess how long it takes to make smores?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Five minutes?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
And how many hours in the day?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Now not many hours.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
No, there's like twelve hours of the day experiments to
make smores. What do you do with the rest of
the time.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
That is the problem in my mind. I'm like, oh,
s'mores right. And it's like ten am this morning, and
she was like I hate today? What are we doing?
And I'm like, oh my god, Like what camp? Is
there an emergency camp?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Uh huh? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Just to shove them in.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Yep, yeah, yep, yep, yep, yep. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Are your kiddos too old for camp.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
No, they're all in camp. They're all in camp. I
love camp. They don't all love camp. But I didn't
love camp as a kid, so I have compassion for
their not loving camp. But we finally did find a
camp that they love, and so now I'm very excited.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
About that camp. But Josie goes begrudgingly to camp.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
What doesn't she like about it?
Speaker 3 (02:45):
She's a homebody. You know, there's four of them.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
They all have very distinct personalities, and Josie would definitely
be the homebody. She's really happy to just chill. She
likes to, you know, I know, do the things that
happen at home. But this week, well, this past week,
I mean it's well, you know, it was full of
firsts for me because this past week was the first
(03:10):
week of having a child who technically as a young man.
M hmm, he has a driver's license, Tamilla. He has
a license to drive, and he's using it.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Honestly, I my soul left my body for a second,
is back in because I remember Luke so little still
and the fact that he might be behind the wheel.
Uh huh, I don't how do you do? Tell me everything?
Speaker 3 (03:39):
All right, so here's what I sort of feel like.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
So after going through this first week, there's the first
feelings that are just excitement and really really dipping into
what I remember getting a license feeling like, which was
sking great.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
It was like independence.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
I mean, the minute I could get my license, I
got it, I was like, the world is my oyster.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I was ready to read those wings and fly. And
was I completely responsible?
Speaker 1 (04:04):
No?
Speaker 3 (04:05):
But was that okay with me in that moment? Yes?
And did my parents need to know about it?
Speaker 4 (04:10):
No?
Speaker 3 (04:10):
There were little things I was keeping to.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Myself, but I was free is what I want? Yeah,
I could pick up my friends, I could go do
my stuff. It was fantastic. So I could really feel
that for him and how exciting that was. And I
didn't want to clip his wings at the same time
that I felt total panic. Yes, because just like you said,
he's my baby, but he's not a baby, he's a
(04:33):
young man. So it felt the most like bear with
me in this analogy. It felt like the beginning of
a new relationship where you don't want to seem like
too needy but not too independent. So I didn't want
to be calling him all the time like hey, what
time did you leave and where are you going? And
can you text me when you leave the place and
then text me when you get to the place. But
(04:54):
I also didn't want to seem like I didn't care,
and I did feel like I needed to know that
information to also just like regulate my nervous system.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Are you tracking him? Like? Do you can you find?
Can you track him so that you can see where
he's going?
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Okay, so we all share our locations with each other
and our family. Yes, I don't. I don't honestly look
at that very much. I sort of depend on good
old fashioned communication. I mean, I get that I could
find him if I wanted to, but I would rather
work on the relationship piece where he understands that I
(05:29):
care where he is and there's a responsibility in our
relationship for him to let me know, as opposed to
me just pulling out my phone and seeing a moving dot.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Does that make sense.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
One hundred percent? I just I think that I'm gonna
have to by the way I think. I think that's
the way to do it. However, I do feel like
I'm going to be in minority report and when they're driving,
I will be like like Matt, don't talk to me. Okay,
she's on Ventura Boulevard, she's just past the McDonald's. It's like, yes,
(05:59):
I don't know if I won't be able to track
twenty four to seven.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
By the way, little known fact because it was a
blink and you might miss it moment, but I was
a helicopter pilot in minority report. Doesn't matter right now.
We'll talk about it later. Actually, there's nothing to talk about.
It was a blink and you would miss it.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Well, I mean the internet misses nothing, so social media
bring that up place for us right now.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I will tell the story later on because I was
in a scene with Tom Cruise and there's a funny
story from that.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Anyways, we digress.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
By the way, you can't really digress. We will let you,
but we're coming back to what Tom.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
We will come back to it. Oh, all the Tom
Cruise stories. Okay.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
So that's how it's been this week. And I'm really
proud of him.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
And I'm really proud of myself.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
And it also happened to be a week where Christopher
it was a little divide and conquer a week for
our family. Christopher took the two older girls even Poppy
on a incredible adventure whitewater rafting, so they were completely offline.
So actually it really only was me that was, you know,
checking with him. And I definitely feel like as I'm
(07:05):
a little Christopher's far better at you know, he believes
in that, like that play based childhood and like, you know,
they're gonna they're gonna slip and fall, they're gonna make
mistakes and we're here to like help and I can
run a little more. I can futurize a little bit more.
I wouldn't say that I'm I.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Don't feel anxious.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
I don't like worry, but I definitely think about what
could happen a little bit more than maybe he does.
So it's been interesting because again it's the beginning of it,
and I don't want him. I don't want Luke to
feel stress for me. I want him to feel excitement
and also expectation of doing like doing this the right way.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Okay, So I have a question because does it help you,
because my fear is that my kids will be learning
to drive possibly in Los Angeles? Does it help you
that you have like two roads in your town, like
a road in and out.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
There's just things I can rely on from you.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I hope, Like I'm being honest, though.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
The one blinking light in the center of town.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Is exactly like it he's gonna be. There's only one
light to deal with. Does it help that you live
in a smaller town? Honestly? Does it help that? Because
imagine him learning. Would you feel differently if he was learning,
if you had just got his license and he was
in Los Angeles, would you feel any different?
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Well, first of all, I understand what you're saying, and yes,
on some level, there's there's a little more room to
practice in like a one lane street type situation that
he said, We do have highways.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Around here, So is he allowed all this?
Speaker 1 (08:42):
They connect because they connect people in places. Yeah, listen,
I think that it. It feels like the system that
the government or the DMV, the Department of Motor Vehicles
has laid out is probably a good one, right. They
ask for certain things of them, And so he got
his parent and then he was able to drive with us.
(09:03):
So we've been driving with him for the past six months.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
And he's a good driver.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
So I mean, although that's a whole other thing too,
because when you're in the drivers when you're in the
passenger seat.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
I was definitely guilty of a lot of mom like.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Who's worse? Who was the worst? You or Christopher were
worse in the passenger seat.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Oh, we're gonna have to have Luke come on as
a guest to tell.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Okay, well, whould Christopher pick?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
I would actually say, I would give this one to Crystal.
I think that crystaler drove with him more. They would
go on longer like road trips and he would drive.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
I mean, thank you, Christopher.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I think Christopher did a really really great job of
driving with him. And I mean I drove with them
all that I could, but it wasn't I don't think
as much as him. And then he took real driver's
lessons with the you know, of course driving lesson people.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
When I first moved to Los Angeles, I could not
drive here. I didn't have my driver's.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Life right and also opposite side of the road.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Yes, very different. And I took the bus for the
first like four years that I lived here, and then
I finally because driving lessons are very expensive, so I
started my driving lesson and I remember driving with this
guy in England. It's very very serious, right, and here
here it's I think it's serious too. But the guy
I was taking driving lessons with. I remember we were
(10:17):
going down the street and he was like, okay, take
a left to take a right, and I'm like, where
are we going? He had me pull into a drive
through because he was hungry. Part of my lesson was
going through in and out drive through. This is not
a joke. He ordered food and I was like, I
guess we're doing this. He was like leaning over me,
like a milkshake, and I'm like, okay, one milkshake. I'm like,
(10:39):
I guess this is how you learn a drive in
the US. You gotta do that. That was part of
my driving lesson. And to be honest, once I passed,
I was like, I know how to go through the
drive through. Once I passed, it was still terrifying. I mean,
they're freeways in it's the wild West. In Los Angeles.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
I always think of clueless.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
It is like clueless it is I have had when
you're pulling in and the freeway is seventeen lanes wide
on one side, you're screaming. Yeah, you're full on screaming
and you're praying, and you make it through and then
you're like great. Yes, that was my driving lesson experience
in the state. It's very different England, I will tell you.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
I mean the new thing that came up this week
was just again, these things just jump right out in
front of you. Didn't expect this one. He will be
driving other people, right, So the driver's license has restrictions
about who. But then you can drive certain people over eighteen,
under eteen blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
And then you think, whoa. I mean, do you need
to do a.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Whole interview with a passenger to make sure that they're
not impulsive, they're not distracting? There, you're a good co pilot,
because now I don't have to just trust my kid.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
I gotta trust the best.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Be honest. Is there anyone that you're like, listen, you're
not to Bob that is not that passenger. Princess is
being a princess somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Luckily there's no Bob, because I'm not sure there are
any Bobs under the age of like forty five. It
was a Bob.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
There's a Bob in every general he's.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Taken a Bob. I want to know why Bob's.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Bob in the car. We have a lot of questions
about Bob, but maybe.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Like, yeah, is he taking a Will or a Jake? Yeah,
I mean there are Wills and Jakes, and I think that.
I was like, I'm gonna have to now get to them.
There's gonna be there's gonna be some protocol. I'm gonna
need to get to know these friends a little more
than I do.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Yes, yeah, what's the cell phone situation. Here's what I
would want to do. I'd want to call to make
sure they're okay, but I don't want to call because
I don't want them picking up the phone.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
We had a huge, huge, huge thunderstrom yesterday, like again,
buckets and buckets and buckets of water coming out of
the sky, and I thought he's on the road. It was,
it was actually, it was definitely my most worried moment because.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yeah, he's driven in rain before. It's okay, but it's
like you just want to know it's hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Anyway, so I had that moment I thought should I
call him or is calling him going to be distracting?
Speaker 3 (13:04):
That's when you pull out the minority life.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
That's when you were like, that's when you do this
is the dots and you're like, the storm's moving this way,
the cars moving this way. You know, you want to
know how many lightning strikes there are? Yeah, no, that's
what that's when you got a minority report it.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yeah, it's been real interesting, but I got I have
to say on the positive note again going back to
how I felt, it's such a huge moment in your independence,
and it's so important, like trust, right, you've been talking
about your whole life with them, and we've talked about
this before. It's the whole thing, right, and been building
your and moving your children towards independence and adulthood. Is
(13:42):
like we've been doing things with them for so long,
and they're going to have to do them on their own,
and and you're going to have to trust that they can.
And so yeah, that's why it's been a big week.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Thank God. Honestly hearing this, I'm not ready for this.
I'm happy to have my three year old who loves
(14:15):
Buzz light Year and my seven year old I do.
I have been there've been camps this summer. We've also
been in and you know this when you have little
kids more so than anybody, a lot of birthday parties.
I am hitting up every birthday party in Los Angeles.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Yeah, I talked to you on Saturday. You sounded exhausted.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
I hit up to that day. But my social life
arc is kids' birthday parties. And luckily, I really love
all the parents that I have to socialize with for
these parties, and their kids are wonderful. But we started
to have this conversation at one of the birthday parties.
We were at about the pressure of throwing a party,
(14:57):
and I blame social me for this. I blame reality
TV shows for this. Even though I do like reality TV.
The pressure to throw a birthday party from when we
were kids to now is really hard and I think
we gotta forget it.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah, take the thut off the gas? Are you talking about?
Just like the fact that everything needs to be instagram worthy?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Do we need fifty fucking balloon arches? Do I need
a balloon arch to go to the bathroom?
Speaker 1 (15:26):
And you know they're not good for the environment, They're
not good for anyone here.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
No, I know, but you can't. Also, you know, everyone's
there's some sort of organic you know, balloon arch that
you know will help feed a tree, so that you
can't it's not even an excuse anymore. But like, I
don't need literally a balloon arch to go pee. It's fine.
I don't need one over the toilet and then the sink. No,
there is a faking balloon arch in every And by
the way, I've been guilty. Have I done a balloon
(15:51):
arch in my time? I've done a couple. I'm guilty
of the arches. But did my mom do a balloon arch? No,
she tied some balloons together and she threw them over there.
And like we both had the tradition because I stole
it from you that we send them up to the
scene and that's cute, but like it's it's out of control.
(16:13):
Now you have the characters. And by the way, I've
had the character show up. I've had Mickey show up
to the party.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
No, no, no, it's too much. It's too much, it's
too much.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
I definitely definitely succumbed the pressure to have that kind
of party. Also, I kind of I enjoyed it. I did,
I kind of liked it and then and then I didn't.
So I feel like as we moved through the years,
I definitely dressed up as Elsa myself.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
And I have Yeah, I have photos.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Guess who's gonna be buzz light Year in August.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Me?
Speaker 3 (16:42):
By the way, guess who's not cute as Elsa?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Me?
Speaker 3 (16:45):
You can't, Jessica.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
No, I'm going to post. I'm gonna post them. I'm
gonna give you a visual. That wig does mean no favors.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Would you wear the wig you wore them? You're blonde?
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Does my hair look like Elsa's?
Speaker 1 (16:57):
No, I needed like the big it was the white flock.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah. No, those things are a fire hazard. By the way,
I mean, I don't know what they're made of.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
But Josie was three or something, and she definitely I
actually don't.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
I actually think she might have thought she was part Elsa.
She would just stand there and like speak to the water.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Anyway, the pressure for birthday parties, yes, too much. I
think we got to do away with we use simplicity
back because by the way, I have thrown I'm gonna
say this really quick. I thrown birthday parties that feel
like way too extravagant and the kids at the end
of the day end up playing Chase. They just want
to play tag, some pizza, some music, call it a day.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Absolutely true.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
You know, I was actually think about it because I
was thinking about Luke driving and I was sort of
thinking about what. You know, you start with this little
baby in your arms, and it's just and he was
our first, and there's just all the feelings and you
have all these ideas about what kind of parent you're
gonna be and everything else, and then through parenting you
(18:03):
realize there's some things that you expected from yourself and
some things that surprise you. Do you feel like you
have a parenting style? Do you feel like you have
an idea of how you like.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Move through parenting?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
No, which is a problem because I want to label it.
I love I love a label. I want to be
like I'm a you know, I think I'm all of
the labels that you can be. I feel like sometimes
my parenting is not consistent, which is probably not great. No,
I don't. Honestly, sometimes I just feel like I'm freaking
(18:42):
winging it take me hour by hour, Like I don't
know that's okay today and then tomorrow? Am I getting
trouble for that?
Speaker 1 (18:50):
You know?
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Like I don't know that's that's the move?
Speaker 5 (18:52):
You know?
Speaker 2 (18:52):
What? Get you want to have chocolate for dinner? Like
I don't have it. I don't care anymore. It's fine,
It's fine. And then tomorrow when you ask me for dessert,
I'm like, are you out of your goddamn when asking
for dessert? What is this okay?
Speaker 1 (19:07):
But that all seems completely okay as long as you
communicate that, right, I mean, I think that as long
as our kids, I mean, I think we actually probably
are more consistent than You're, probably more consistent than than
you think you are, and your kids get to know
you so they know that when today it's chocolate for dinner,
it's because you know X, Y or Z was happening.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
I mean, listen, I feel like I have. I feel like.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
I'm definitely not authoritative, Like it's not like my way
or the highway, although I definitely was far more.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Rigid when I first started parenting, like in.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
My ideas of what was right or wrong, or even
the fact that I thought there was a right or wrong.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Like, I don't feel that way anymore. And I'm definitely
not permissive. So I feel like I'm in the middle.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I love my kids so much and I want to
have a great time with them, and I want to
raise them and to being like young adults that like
I want to.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
I want to hang out.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Like I want.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
I want them to get older and want to keep
coming back.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
And that being said, I don't want to give up
any of my own, you know, my integrity or my
ideas of what I.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Think is best for them.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
So I think that that's something that that comes into
my mind a lot, like how do you parent in
a way that that sets your boundaries at the same
time that allows for the play and the fun and
the the the yummy, the part that's like exciting and
fun and adventurous and.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Not full of a ton of rules.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
I think it's hard because for me, this is our struggle.
For me for sure, because growing up, my mom felt
very much like my best friend and I always wanted
that relationship again. When Hayden was born, I was like,
I know what this is going to be, like, She's
going to be my little buddy. That's how I was,
(20:57):
and she came out a completely different person to me, obviously,
and it was I have to say it was an
adjustment because I felt like, Okay, this relationship is going
to be different. And by the way, I've realized with
time that my mom probably should have had more boundaries
(21:17):
with me than she had. I was a little bit
too much her buddy. I don't think I should have
been maybe privy to certain things that were happening, for example,
like in my you know, I was very privy to
money problems we had and when I was very young,
and I think that it was stressed me out. But
I think she shared a lot and it made me
feel close with her. But then I am so I
(21:39):
feel like I'm really having a hard time a little
bit loving that relationship I had with my mom my
kid is completely different to how I was, and then
trying to figure out how it's going to work for
me but keep that closeness. So it's sort of a
it's a daily struggle for me a little bit. And
I that's what I'm saying, Like, fucking it's our by
(22:01):
hour sometimes I feel like it's our by hour with
both of them. And by the way, what's so surprising
is is that really truly surprising, and that I'm sure
any mom missing to this can attest to this. Your
kids are so different, and so the way I'm parenting
one works for one and doesn't work for the other,
and so that adjustment back and forth and then having
(22:22):
trying to not look like you're favoring one over the
other or you're you're punishing one in a different way
over the other. It's all I'm learning on the job.
That's what's hard about parenting. Your learning on the job
every day. And I want to do well. I want
it to be success. I want to get I'm the
responsible for their childhoods want them to have amazing memories.
(22:46):
But but yeah, who knows how I'm doing speaking of
you treat them differently ultimately, what how that playsut when
they get a little older, is you start hearing in stereo?
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Well, well that's not fair. Well she got that or
he got that.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Oh you think that's happening when they're old, that's happening now.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Well but that was right for him, and that you
know that's not nice for you.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yes, yeah, it is a time you gotta be It's
you gotta think on your feet. You gotta think on
your feet. But I do feel like it's okay to
think on your feet and have things be different again.
I go back to like relationship, like if you're honest,
if you are if you're if you're saying when you're
frustrated and you're letting something happen because you don't have
the bandwidth, or if you are you know, tired, or
(23:37):
if you're full of energy. I mean all the different
things that you can be in a day. I mean,
we're not robots, right. We have an idea of how
we want this to go, but that doesn't always it
doesn't always go like that, So we have to be adjustable.
And and I do say that to them a lot.
I'm like, listen, this is my first time parent.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Yeah, so I'm going to.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Get it right sometimes, and I'm going to get it
wrong sometimes, and I'm gonna.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Just of the right to walk him back right.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Like I may make a decision about something and say
this is okay, or we can do this, and then
tomorrow I may feel differently, and I will explain that,
I'll explain why, because I do think that's what's amazing
about family, Like I think it's so incredible.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Is that you're a team.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
You're a team that's bound no matter what, by the
fact that you're family. And that's an incredible, incredible thing.
So I do try to remind them, like we always
team family, and so you cannot like what's happening on
a team, or you can think you know expart Z,
but ultimately you're stuck with that team.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yeah, you're stuck with me, So I don't know what
to tell you.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Buck up, Buttercup.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
No, I'm gonna use that. This is why, this is
why I love you, Capshaw, I will use that too.
I'm gonna go home and be like, listen, team the
leader doesn't know what they're doing today. But you're on
the team.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
You made the team, and you can't get.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
On the team, you can't get off. You might get benched.
I'm not sure why. I'll explain tomorrow exactly. I'll have
more idea what's going on tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
I feel like the heading, the heading of this conversation
about Luke and getting his driver's license should have been
buckle up, Buttercup, welcome to parenting.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Yeah, cool up?
Speaker 5 (25:17):
Yeah yeah, Okay.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
We have some We have some incredible people that have
written us today. I love them so our episode.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
By the way, I like to say that I'm very,
very grateful for all of these incredible people that write
in like truly to trust us with these questions and
to be excited to write them.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
I mean, it's just it's really wonderful.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
I want to get into the first one because this
person has very similar ages to my kids. So Jess
wrote in and she said, my husband and I have
two adorable boys, ages two and seven. We are talking
about a third child, but we can't decide if it's
the right decision. How did y'all both know your families
(26:15):
were complete? I can answer this very easily. My family
is complete with just two kids, because I know myself
as a mom, and I know the anxiety that I have,
and I think I would be a better mom to
two kids than three. I think that it would overwhelm
(26:37):
me to the point where, yeah, I just don't think
I would be as good of a mom. And I
think that Matt and I are both feel that way,
and I feel very complete with two myself. You have
four those so this is a different answer for you.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Well, I think it well.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
I think that the answer is that it's a very
personal answer, and you have to The first thing you
can do is be really really touch and really really
honest with yourself and with your partner. And I do
think it's one of those things where you both have
to be on board. You know, you hear a lot
of times partners say, you know one would like another
or you know whatever are you so are you hear
(27:13):
people say you know I didn't want any or I
only wanted one and.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
We had three. But I do think, you know, you
have to do it's right for you.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
But I obviously it is far far better when you
have both parents or multiple parent families, even you're all
on the same page, because I think that it you
up for success. For me, I came from a big family,
so I think that it was very natural and I
didn't feel overwhelmed.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
I didn't feel overwhelmed by more.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
And Luke is three years older than Eve, and then
Poppy is only twenty months younger than Eve. So we
went like boom boom with Luke and a break then Eve,
and then I got pregnant when.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Eve was ten months old.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
So we were in it, and I don't think that
I thought about having a fourth. And then Poppy was
then around like two, and I thought, I think I
really want a fourth. I said to Christopher, what do
you think and He's like, yeah, I think that would
be fantastic.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
And then we.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Sort of opened up the possibility for that to happen,
and I got pregnant and I was so excited and
I had never had any issues before getting pregnant. I
was very lucky and I'm very grateful. And then all
of a sudden, at my ten week appointment went in
for the ultrasound, was by myself totally unsuspecting, and there
(28:36):
was no heartbeat, and.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
That was.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
Horrible.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
It was the most shocking and deeply, deeply sad thing,
and I really honestly couldn't believe it. I could not
believe it. So when I found out that there there
was no heartbeat, and when I found out that I
(29:04):
was not going to have a baby, I was not
going to have that baby. I didn't know what happened next.
It had never happened to me before, so I didn't
know if that meant I was going to get my period,
if I was how this baby was going to pass
through my maddie. I had no idea, and that was
(29:28):
when I then and again, your brain is like not working,
no of it's making sense, And obviously, you know, the
biggest part was then because you don't know when it's
going to happen. And so I remember calling Christopher and
(29:49):
I remember like, just do you say it over the phone?
Do you wait till you're together there's just such deep sadness,
and then sharing with him that that's what was happening,
and then feeling that together, just that deep sadness and
disappointment and disbelief. In a lot of ways, there was disbelief,
(30:10):
and then us going to the doctor and sort of saying, Okay,
so what happens next? And I didn't like, I said,
I didn't know. I didn't know if that meant I
was going to get my period or what was going
to happen. And then she was very the best doctor
in the whole world. I love her so much. She
delivered three of our babies. And she said, well, what
happens next is you have a DNC because that needs
(30:32):
to be cleared out of your body. And these are
the steps that we're going to take.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
And that's healthcare. That's called health care.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
And I was very very very fortunate. I was very
very fortunate that I had a doctor who was so
compassionate and took her time to explain to me what
was going on and to teach me, and then to
be with me in that pain and in that disappointment,
and that I had a partner that was there to
(31:01):
be with me in that pain and in that disappointment,
and then you know, life carried on, you know, and
I had I had a chance to take care of
myself and my body and my relationship and my other children,
and it was really incredible. And you know what was
(31:23):
also very strange to me saying this now because I
feel so differently about it obviously, is that I, all
this sudden was very aware that people don't talk about it. Yeah,
that women have miscarriages all the time, every day. Yeah,
(31:43):
and we don't talk about that. And I didn't talk
about it. I didn't talk about it at work. I didn't.
I talked about it with my close friends. But I
didn't go to work the next day before I had
a DNC, by the way, so I knew that I
was still that I still had this body. And I
went to work the next day and I didn't tell anybody,
(32:04):
and I went to work with that feeling and with
that knowledge. And you know, I think that looking back
on it now, again, I'm not sure exactly how, but
I think that the people who are in relationship with you,
whether they're at work or in your family, if you
can and if it's okay with you, I think it
actually should be talked about so that people can help
(32:27):
take care of you, so that maybe at work that day,
people could have been a little more even more, you know,
understanding or had a chance at understanding what it was
that I was going through, because it is total. It
is a total body experience, a mind and body experience.
And anyways, I do think that I do think it
(32:50):
should be talked about and that it would allow for
people to understand where people are coming from. And everybody
wants to deal with it differently, right And by the way,
if you don't want.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
To talk about it, I think that that's okay too.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
It really is what is personal to you and what
you need in that moment from your community.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Yeah, I think that The thing that I'm very aware
of in my own particular story is that I tell
the story with the perspective of having had three children
already and then not that I knew it, but I
would go on to have another and again, because people
(33:34):
don't often share these stories, we don't know what other
people are going through, and there are so many stories
of people who endure miscarriage after miscarriage after miscarriage that
don't already have children or their story isn't that they
go on to have another child. And sometimes that means
that other things happen, and sometimes that means that they
(33:57):
end up having their children through surrogates, or they end
up adopting, or they end up fostering, or they end
up becoming incredibly close and having an insanely unique relationship
with a friend's child or a relatives child. You know,
we all have different stories, and I'm very mindful in
telling mine to be very clear that mine is only
(34:19):
from my perspective. And the sadness that I felt was
my sadness, and it was unique to me in a
lot of moments, defied reason because again I had children.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
But what I realized in going through it was.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
The very very sharp pain of loss like that, it's
a very very unique sense of loss. So my heart
is with any and all the women, the partners, the
family members that deal with it, because it is.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Truly very very hard.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
And then, you know, we got through that, and then
I had never been more convinced. I was like absolutely
there as a fourth and then I did end up
getting pregnant not soon thereafter, and then I had a
very different relationship with the first trimester.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Obviously, At what point did you feel like you could relax.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
I mean, I definitely I loved being pregnant. I really
really really loved being pregnant. So I would not say
that me and my fourth pregnancy was fraught by any stretch.
And that first trimester, I was very mindful. I was mindful.
I was mindful of my expectation of you know, all
the other pregnancies. I you know, I just everyone crossed
(35:48):
my mind that you wouldn't I wouldn't have a baby
in my arms, you know, forty weeks later, and in
this situation, I was very much aware that that could
not be the story, and so I was cautious, you know,
it was.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
It was.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
I wasn't dressed rehearsing tragedy. I wasn't thinking like, oh,
this is going to be terrible, or this is going
to happen again. I was just cautious with my excitement,
with my feelings. And I definitely think that I got
a real dose of living in the moment. This is
the moment that I am, you know, this many weeks pregnant,
(36:22):
and I'm grateful for this and and and all that.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
So yeah, but it.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Was, it was it was a bit different it was
a bit different. And then when we had Josie, I
was so just over the moon and I absolutely to
answer your question.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Just she came out and I was like, I'm done,
We're done. Yeah, I think yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
I also just cannot imagine you without Josie.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
I mean, I know, the little caboose, Oh, the cabooz booze.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Let's go to Milly.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Let's go to Milly.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
I'm Milly and I'm a first time mom with a
four months old. Do I really need mom friends with
babies of similar ages? None of my friends have babies yet,
But does that matter? Can I just wait until my
baby is going to preschool to find more moms to
be friends with. How much do you think it's important
to make friends at this point with people who have
babies the same age. Well, first of all, don't stress. Yeah,
(37:31):
make friends. You're gonna make friends. You're gonna have babies
in your life. It's all gonna be fine, So don't
worry about this. But I do think that another little,
dirty little secret about parenting.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
I don't know if this happened to Chicamila, was.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
I thought you were to have a baby, and again
it was like you and the baby against the world
and you're gonna be hanging out and everything else.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
And then the baby comes in.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
You're like, oh, that baby has done a very good conversationalist.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Yeah. Yeah, baby's not talking, and the baby sleeps a lot.
That baby just needs stuff all the time.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Yeah, And so the beginning of having a baby can
be like the tiniest bit I'm not sure if this
is the right word, but like a little bit lonely
because you're in full caretaking mode.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
A little bit. I think it can be super fucking lonely. Yeah,
it's just too isolating, yep. Yeah, because also you don't
trust that you can get out of the house in time. No,
you're told like, hey, don't hate you know, watch when
they're young because they're succeptible. And you're like, okay, so
you're kind of you almost like you're quarantining a little bit.
Not everyone feels that way. I felt like I was,
you know, me and my health triggers and anxiety. I
(38:36):
was like, if we go out, we're gonna get a
bola I go to Starbucks.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Leprosed diphoid fever is coming for you.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Yeah. Whatever. From eighteen oh five, it'll be back in
that Starbucks and I'll get it.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
So I definitely stayed home. I did not have family
around me. I had no family. Me and Matt do
not have family in the city. I did not have
a nanny I had. I didn't. I was me and
Hades and Matt and it was isolating. It was really hard.
I do think that you don't have to worry about
(39:14):
having moms with babies that age, although I can see
the benefit because you're like, is this happening to you?
Is this happening to me? I mean I wish, I
kind of wish I had, But I think it's a
personal thing. I think as long as you feel support
from people, it can be it can be enough.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Well, And I think that yes, And so I think
because I think that this question is interesting, It's like,
do you need to have friends with babies?
Speaker 3 (39:39):
No? Can it be really additive? And is it fun.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
To have friends who also have babies, you know, at
similar ages? Yeah, because you you do this, you talk
about it, like, Hey, what's going on for you?
Speaker 3 (39:51):
What's going on for me?
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Talking about the things and then also doing these things
together can be very a lot more interesting than staring
at a baby who doesn't talk.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah, you can both stare together, Yeah, your own babies
or talk well the babies you're talking. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
you can stare and you can have a conversation.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
No, I definitely think so. I do think that naturally,
once your kids are in play school in England preschool here,
like you will, you will absolutely find community. But there
are benefits to finding other mamas that age. But again,
again it's a personal thing because some people might not
need that.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah, for sure, I could have done with that, I
think Okay. Denise writes my lockdown baby, Oh I feel
Ya is starting preschool in September. She's four and has
very big emotions. It takes time for her to build
trust with adults, and our stay and play sessions have
not gone well. I've done this three times before, but
(40:51):
she is the most emotional about it. Is it lockdown?
Do I just have a totally different child? It's stressing
me out. Help. I was this kid big feelings. I
had very big feelings. I wanted to be around my
mom all the time. I cried at birthday parties if
she went out of my sight. I was this child.
I don't think it's lockdown. I mean, it could be
(41:13):
part of it, that could be part of it. But
I do think that some children just are not you know,
they don't want to be left away from their parents.
And I think that, you know, when I dropped Hayden
off at her school for the first time, she was
actually totally fine, very independent, and then I dropped when
we dropped her off at school for the first time,
she was one of the last kids to be okay
(41:35):
with it. She was crying for a long time, and
I kept hearing that it does get better, and it
really feels like it doesn't. You feel like it's going
to be an absolute nightmare, and somehow, at some point,
before you know it, they're just waving goodbye to you,
and you feel like it's not going to happen. I
felt like all the I guld see all the other
kids doing it, she was still crying. It really does happen,
(41:57):
So I would not quite simply, I don't think you
would have a different child. I understand the stress. I
was also this kid, And it gets better, it really does.
It feels daunting, but it gets a lot better.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
I totally agree with that, and.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
I think that there are a lot of kids who
just have big feelings and they actually don't go away.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
That's just how they're built, how they're put together.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
I mean a lot of quite frankly, if this helps
you to think this way, geniuses.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
Total geniuses just have really big feelings.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
They have access to a whole other emotional well, and
it might be deeper than another.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
I think that it's then about you.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
And how you manage your parenting and how you manage
them and how you help them feel different degrees of
safe or secure or heard and seen, because typically I
find that the kids that feel out of control or
have the super big feelings are not connecting the feeling
(43:06):
with what's going on, Like what I mean, Am I
scared that my mom's going to leave because she's not going.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
To come back?
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Is that what I'm dealing with?
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Or am I scared about my mom leaving because I
mean like fill in the blank. I think it's so
obviously you know, for as verbal, but as they get
more and more able to communicate with you is just
asking those questions, get really getting really curious about, like
tell me what you're worried about?
Speaker 3 (43:34):
Like how do we solve for these things?
Speaker 1 (43:36):
How do we what are you worried about what do
you think is going to happen. Let's run through those
scenarios and if that happens.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
What will you do? How do you become more prepared?
Because ultimately, again going back to Luke and his driver's.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
License, you're you're raising them to trust themselves, to trust
themselves to fix any problem that comes their way, because ultimately,
in strength and in confidence they will they will know,
and they will know it with your help for quite
a while, but then they will know it on their own,
or they'll make mistakes and then they'll learn it a
different way. Right, But ultimately that you continued to be
(44:13):
curious about helping them help themselves.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
I also did this little thing. Yes it does. And
I also do this little thing that I still do
now with hate. And when she gets nervous about stuff,
when we're leaving her we have to travel or something
like that, we take a marker pen and we draw
a heart. We let her draw heart on us, and
we draw a heart on her hand, and so we're connected.
And if you have feelings, I want you to look
(44:37):
at the heart. And it's like this thing that I
feel like reminds her that we're there or reminds her
of the conversation of like I'm coming back, just a
little thing that we've always done. Yeah, Jessica Capshaw, I
love you so much. I love you, and I love
you for sharing because I know these things are not easy.
(45:00):
Wish they were easier to share, and I just think
you're so sking awesome for telling that story today.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
Well, I'm very glad to have shared it, and I'm
also very I'm very grateful to have you know, it
sounds crazy, but I'm grateful to have had it happen
and to be able to move through it and another
proof that you know, really hard, really terrible things can
(45:28):
happen and you can still be okay.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
Yeah, okay, I'm gonna let you call it.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
Call it. The end of the episode.
Call It What It Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camil Luddington,
an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hello Call It Crew, and welcome to a new episode
of Call It What It Is?
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Well.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hello, Hi, Hi, how are you? I'm in the summer.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
You're in summer saying? Yeah, oh, this is the home
edition for me. This is my first time at home
talking to you. It's coming live from my bedroom.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
From your bedroom. I love it, intimate, sexy, we're bringing
the sexist episode. No, when I say summer, I don't
mean like relaxing summer vibes. I mean like kids, Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Do you mean that moment when you realize that they're
out of You're so excited for them to be out
of school, You're so excited for summer mode, and you
have like that first couple of days where you're like,
I don't need to wake up for anything, I don't
need to do that morning rush, I don't need to
do anything. And then it's day three or four and
you're like, okay, but what do I need to do
with them now?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Where do they go? Who's going to entertain them?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yeah? Like where are your parents?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Where are your parents?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
There's there someone to take care of you.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, who's taking care of you? It's not me?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
No.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I signed Hayden up for every camp under this some
of them I don't even know. I'm like, what is that?
Can't you know like a horror movie camp? Great? Sign
her up?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
What is that?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Nine to nine pm? Perfect?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I signed her for so many camps and then this
week I did not have her any in any camps,
and next week I don't And I was like, yeah,
it was because I was like thinking to myself, Oh,
this will be so nice. She'll be at home. We
can we can make smores.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
We can like guess how long it takes to make smores?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Five minutes?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
And how many hours in the day?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Now not many hours.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
No, there's like twelve hours of the day experiments to
make smores. What do you do with the rest of
the time.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
That is the problem in my mind. I'm like, oh,
s'mores right. And it's like ten am this morning, and
she was like I hate today? What are we doing?
And I'm like, oh my god, Like what camp? Is
there an emergency camp?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Uh huh? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Just to shove them in.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Yep, yeah, yep, yep, yep, yep. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Are your kiddos too old for camp.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
No, they're all in camp. They're all in camp. I
love camp. They don't all love camp. But I didn't
love camp as a kid, so I have compassion for
their not loving camp. But we finally did find a
camp that they love, and so now I'm very excited.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
About that camp. But Josie goes begrudgingly to camp.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
What doesn't she like about it?
Speaker 3 (02:45):
She's a homebody. You know, there's four of them.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
They all have very distinct personalities, and Josie would definitely
be the homebody. She's really happy to just chill. She
likes to, you know, I know, do the things that
happen at home. But this week, well, this past week,
I mean it's well, you know, it was full of
firsts for me because this past week was the first
(03:10):
week of having a child who technically as a young man.
M hmm, he has a driver's license, Tamilla. He has
a license to drive, and he's using it.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Honestly, I my soul left my body for a second,
is back in because I remember Luke so little still
and the fact that he might be behind the wheel.
Uh huh, I don't how do you do? Tell me everything?
Speaker 3 (03:39):
All right, so here's what I sort of feel like.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
So after going through this first week, there's the first
feelings that are just excitement and really really dipping into
what I remember getting a license feeling like, which was
sking great.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
It was like independence.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
I mean, the minute I could get my license, I
got it, I was like, the world is my oyster.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I was ready to read those wings and fly. And
was I completely responsible?
Speaker 1 (04:04):
No?
Speaker 3 (04:05):
But was that okay with me in that moment? Yes?
And did my parents need to know about it?
Speaker 4 (04:10):
No?
Speaker 3 (04:10):
There were little things I was keeping to.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Myself, but I was free is what I want? Yeah,
I could pick up my friends, I could go do
my stuff. It was fantastic. So I could really feel
that for him and how exciting that was. And I
didn't want to clip his wings at the same time
that I felt total panic. Yes, because just like you said,
he's my baby, but he's not a baby, he's a
(04:33):
young man. So it felt the most like bear with
me in this analogy. It felt like the beginning of
a new relationship where you don't want to seem like
too needy but not too independent. So I didn't want
to be calling him all the time like hey, what
time did you leave and where are you going? And
can you text me when you leave the place and
then text me when you get to the place. But
(04:54):
I also didn't want to seem like I didn't care,
and I did feel like I needed to know that
information to also just like regulate my nervous system.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Are you tracking him? Like? Do you can you find?
Can you track him so that you can see where
he's going?
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Okay, so we all share our locations with each other
and our family. Yes, I don't. I don't honestly look
at that very much. I sort of depend on good
old fashioned communication. I mean, I get that I could
find him if I wanted to, but I would rather
work on the relationship piece where he understands that I
(05:29):
care where he is and there's a responsibility in our
relationship for him to let me know, as opposed to
me just pulling out my phone and seeing a moving dot.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Does that make sense.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
One hundred percent? I just I think that I'm gonna
have to by the way I think. I think that's
the way to do it. However, I do feel like
I'm going to be in minority report and when they're driving,
I will be like like Matt, don't talk to me. Okay,
she's on Ventura Boulevard, she's just past the McDonald's. It's like, yes,
(05:59):
I don't know if I won't be able to track
twenty four to seven.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
By the way, little known fact because it was a
blink and you might miss it moment, but I was
a helicopter pilot in minority report. Doesn't matter right now.
We'll talk about it later. Actually, there's nothing to talk about.
It was a blink and you would miss it.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Well, I mean the internet misses nothing, so social media
bring that up place for us right now.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I will tell the story later on because I was
in a scene with Tom Cruise and there's a funny
story from that.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Anyways, we digress.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
By the way, you can't really digress. We will let you,
but we're coming back to what Tom.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
We will come back to it. Oh, all the Tom
Cruise stories. Okay.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
So that's how it's been this week. And I'm really
proud of him.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
And I'm really proud of myself.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
And it also happened to be a week where Christopher
it was a little divide and conquer a week for
our family. Christopher took the two older girls even Poppy
on a incredible adventure whitewater rafting, so they were completely offline.
So actually it really only was me that was, you know,
checking with him. And I definitely feel like as I'm
(07:05):
a little Christopher's far better at you know, he believes
in that, like that play based childhood and like, you know,
they're gonna they're gonna slip and fall, they're gonna make
mistakes and we're here to like help and I can
run a little more. I can futurize a little bit more.
I wouldn't say that I'm I.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Don't feel anxious.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
I don't like worry, but I definitely think about what
could happen a little bit more than maybe he does.
So it's been interesting because again it's the beginning of it,
and I don't want him. I don't want Luke to
feel stress for me. I want him to feel excitement
and also expectation of doing like doing this the right way.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Okay, So I have a question because does it help you,
because my fear is that my kids will be learning
to drive possibly in Los Angeles? Does it help you
that you have like two roads in your town, like
a road in and out.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
There's just things I can rely on from you.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I hope, Like I'm being honest, though.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
The one blinking light in the center of town.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Is exactly like it he's gonna be. There's only one
light to deal with. Does it help that you live
in a smaller town? Honestly? Does it help that? Because
imagine him learning. Would you feel differently if he was learning,
if you had just got his license and he was
in Los Angeles, would you feel any different?
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Well, first of all, I understand what you're saying, and yes,
on some level, there's there's a little more room to
practice in like a one lane street type situation that
he said, We do have highways.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Around here, So is he allowed all this?
Speaker 1 (08:42):
They connect because they connect people in places. Yeah, listen,
I think that it. It feels like the system that
the government or the DMV, the Department of Motor Vehicles
has laid out is probably a good one, right. They
ask for certain things of them, And so he got
his parent and then he was able to drive with us.
(09:03):
So we've been driving with him for the past six months.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
And he's a good driver.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
So I mean, although that's a whole other thing too,
because when you're in the drivers when you're in the
passenger seat.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
I was definitely guilty of a lot of mom like.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Who's worse? Who was the worst? You or Christopher were
worse in the passenger seat.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Oh, we're gonna have to have Luke come on as
a guest to tell.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Okay, well, whould Christopher pick?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
I would actually say, I would give this one to Crystal.
I think that crystaler drove with him more. They would
go on longer like road trips and he would drive.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
I mean, thank you, Christopher.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I think Christopher did a really really great job of
driving with him. And I mean I drove with them
all that I could, but it wasn't I don't think
as much as him. And then he took real driver's
lessons with the you know, of course driving lesson people.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
When I first moved to Los Angeles, I could not
drive here. I didn't have my driver's.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Life right and also opposite side of the road.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Yes, very different. And I took the bus for the
first like four years that I lived here, and then
I finally because driving lessons are very expensive, so I
started my driving lesson and I remember driving with this
guy in England. It's very very serious, right, and here
here it's I think it's serious too. But the guy
I was taking driving lessons with. I remember we were
(10:17):
going down the street and he was like, okay, take
a left to take a right, and I'm like, where
are we going? He had me pull into a drive
through because he was hungry. Part of my lesson was
going through in and out drive through. This is not
a joke. He ordered food and I was like, I
guess we're doing this. He was like leaning over me,
like a milkshake, and I'm like, okay, one milkshake. I'm like,
(10:39):
I guess this is how you learn a drive in
the US. You gotta do that. That was part of
my driving lesson. And to be honest, once I passed,
I was like, I know how to go through the
drive through. Once I passed, it was still terrifying. I mean,
they're freeways in it's the wild West. In Los Angeles.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
I always think of clueless.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
It is like clueless it is I have had when
you're pulling in and the freeway is seventeen lanes wide
on one side, you're screaming. Yeah, you're full on screaming
and you're praying, and you make it through and then
you're like great. Yes, that was my driving lesson experience
in the state. It's very different England, I will tell you.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
I mean the new thing that came up this week
was just again, these things just jump right out in
front of you. Didn't expect this one. He will be
driving other people, right, So the driver's license has restrictions
about who. But then you can drive certain people over eighteen,
under eteen blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
And then you think, whoa. I mean, do you need
to do a.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Whole interview with a passenger to make sure that they're
not impulsive, they're not distracting? There, you're a good co pilot,
because now I don't have to just trust my kid.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
I gotta trust the best.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Be honest. Is there anyone that you're like, listen, you're
not to Bob that is not that passenger. Princess is
being a princess somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Luckily there's no Bob, because I'm not sure there are
any Bobs under the age of like forty five. It
was a Bob.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
There's a Bob in every general he's.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Taken a Bob. I want to know why Bob's.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Bob in the car. We have a lot of questions
about Bob, but maybe.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Like, yeah, is he taking a Will or a Jake? Yeah,
I mean there are Wills and Jakes, and I think that.
I was like, I'm gonna have to now get to them.
There's gonna be there's gonna be some protocol. I'm gonna
need to get to know these friends a little more
than I do.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Yes, yeah, what's the cell phone situation. Here's what I
would want to do. I'd want to call to make
sure they're okay, but I don't want to call because
I don't want them picking up the phone.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
We had a huge, huge, huge thunderstrom yesterday, like again,
buckets and buckets and buckets of water coming out of
the sky, and I thought he's on the road. It was,
it was actually, it was definitely my most worried moment because.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yeah, he's driven in rain before. It's okay, but it's
like you just want to know it's hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Anyway, so I had that moment I thought should I
call him or is calling him going to be distracting?
Speaker 3 (13:04):
That's when you pull out the minority life.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
That's when you were like, that's when you do this
is the dots and you're like, the storm's moving this way,
the cars moving this way. You know, you want to
know how many lightning strikes there are? Yeah, no, that's
what that's when you got a minority report it.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yeah, it's been real interesting, but I got I have
to say on the positive note again going back to
how I felt, it's such a huge moment in your independence,
and it's so important, like trust, right, you've been talking
about your whole life with them, and we've talked about
this before. It's the whole thing, right, and been building
your and moving your children towards independence and adulthood. Is
(13:42):
like we've been doing things with them for so long,
and they're going to have to do them on their own,
and and you're going to have to trust that they can.
And so yeah, that's why it's been a big week.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Thank God. Honestly hearing this, I'm not ready for this.
I'm happy to have my three year old who loves
(14:15):
Buzz light Year and my seven year old I do.
I have been there've been camps this summer. We've also
been in and you know this when you have little
kids more so than anybody, a lot of birthday parties.
I am hitting up every birthday party in Los Angeles.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Yeah, I talked to you on Saturday. You sounded exhausted.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
I hit up to that day. But my social life
arc is kids' birthday parties. And luckily, I really love
all the parents that I have to socialize with for
these parties, and their kids are wonderful. But we started
to have this conversation at one of the birthday parties.
We were at about the pressure of throwing a party,
(14:57):
and I blame social me for this. I blame reality
TV shows for this. Even though I do like reality TV.
The pressure to throw a birthday party from when we
were kids to now is really hard and I think
we gotta forget it.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah, take the thut off the gas? Are you talking about?
Just like the fact that everything needs to be instagram worthy?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Do we need fifty fucking balloon arches? Do I need
a balloon arch to go to the bathroom?
Speaker 1 (15:26):
And you know they're not good for the environment, They're
not good for anyone here.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
No, I know, but you can't. Also, you know, everyone's
there's some sort of organic you know, balloon arch that
you know will help feed a tree, so that you
can't it's not even an excuse anymore. But like, I
don't need literally a balloon arch to go pee. It's fine.
I don't need one over the toilet and then the sink. No,
there is a faking balloon arch in every And by
the way, I've been guilty. Have I done a balloon
(15:51):
arch in my time? I've done a couple. I'm guilty
of the arches. But did my mom do a balloon arch? No,
she tied some balloons together and she threw them over there.
And like we both had the tradition because I stole
it from you that we send them up to the
scene and that's cute, but like it's it's out of control.
(16:13):
Now you have the characters. And by the way, I've
had the character show up. I've had Mickey show up
to the party.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
No, no, no, it's too much. It's too much, it's
too much.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
I definitely definitely succumbed the pressure to have that kind
of party. Also, I kind of I enjoyed it. I did,
I kind of liked it and then and then I didn't.
So I feel like as we moved through the years,
I definitely dressed up as Elsa myself.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
And I have Yeah, I have photos.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Guess who's gonna be buzz light Year in August.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Me?
Speaker 3 (16:42):
By the way, guess who's not cute as Elsa?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Me?
Speaker 3 (16:45):
You can't, Jessica.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
No, I'm going to post. I'm gonna post them. I'm
gonna give you a visual. That wig does mean no favors.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Would you wear the wig you wore them? You're blonde?
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Does my hair look like Elsa's?
Speaker 1 (16:57):
No, I needed like the big it was the white flock.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah. No, those things are a fire hazard. By the way,
I mean, I don't know what they're made of.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
But Josie was three or something, and she definitely I
actually don't.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
I actually think she might have thought she was part Elsa.
She would just stand there and like speak to the water.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Anyway, the pressure for birthday parties, yes, too much. I
think we got to do away with we use simplicity
back because by the way, I have thrown I'm gonna
say this really quick. I thrown birthday parties that feel
like way too extravagant and the kids at the end
of the day end up playing Chase. They just want
to play tag, some pizza, some music, call it a day.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Absolutely true.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
You know, I was actually think about it because I
was thinking about Luke driving and I was sort of
thinking about what. You know, you start with this little
baby in your arms, and it's just and he was
our first, and there's just all the feelings and you
have all these ideas about what kind of parent you're
gonna be and everything else, and then through parenting you
(18:03):
realize there's some things that you expected from yourself and
some things that surprise you. Do you feel like you
have a parenting style? Do you feel like you have
an idea of how you like.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Move through parenting?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
No, which is a problem because I want to label it.
I love I love a label. I want to be
like I'm a you know, I think I'm all of
the labels that you can be. I feel like sometimes
my parenting is not consistent, which is probably not great. No,
I don't. Honestly, sometimes I just feel like I'm freaking
(18:42):
winging it take me hour by hour, Like I don't
know that's okay today and then tomorrow? Am I getting
trouble for that?
Speaker 1 (18:50):
You know?
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Like I don't know that's that's the move?
Speaker 5 (18:52):
You know?
Speaker 2 (18:52):
What? Get you want to have chocolate for dinner? Like
I don't have it. I don't care anymore. It's fine,
It's fine. And then tomorrow when you ask me for dessert,
I'm like, are you out of your goddamn when asking
for dessert? What is this okay?
Speaker 1 (19:07):
But that all seems completely okay as long as you
communicate that, right, I mean, I think that as long
as our kids, I mean, I think we actually probably
are more consistent than You're, probably more consistent than than
you think you are, and your kids get to know
you so they know that when today it's chocolate for dinner,
it's because you know X, Y or Z was happening.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
I mean, listen, I feel like I have. I feel like.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
I'm definitely not authoritative, Like it's not like my way
or the highway, although I definitely was far more.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Rigid when I first started parenting, like in.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
My ideas of what was right or wrong, or even
the fact that I thought there was a right or wrong.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Like, I don't feel that way anymore. And I'm definitely
not permissive. So I feel like I'm in the middle.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I love my kids so much and I want to
have a great time with them, and I want to
raise them and to being like young adults that like
I want to.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
I want to hang out.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Like I want.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
I want them to get older and want to keep
coming back.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
And that being said, I don't want to give up
any of my own, you know, my integrity or my
ideas of what I.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Think is best for them.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
So I think that that's something that that comes into
my mind a lot, like how do you parent in
a way that that sets your boundaries at the same
time that allows for the play and the fun and
the the the yummy, the part that's like exciting and
fun and adventurous and.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Not full of a ton of rules.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
I think it's hard because for me, this is our struggle.
For me for sure, because growing up, my mom felt
very much like my best friend and I always wanted
that relationship again. When Hayden was born, I was like,
I know what this is going to be, like, She's
going to be my little buddy. That's how I was,
(20:57):
and she came out a completely different person to me, obviously,
and it was I have to say it was an
adjustment because I felt like, Okay, this relationship is going
to be different. And by the way, I've realized with
time that my mom probably should have had more boundaries
(21:17):
with me than she had. I was a little bit
too much her buddy. I don't think I should have
been maybe privy to certain things that were happening, for example,
like in my you know, I was very privy to
money problems we had and when I was very young,
and I think that it was stressed me out. But
I think she shared a lot and it made me
feel close with her. But then I am so I
(21:39):
feel like I'm really having a hard time a little
bit loving that relationship I had with my mom my
kid is completely different to how I was, and then
trying to figure out how it's going to work for
me but keep that closeness. So it's sort of a
it's a daily struggle for me a little bit. And
I that's what I'm saying, Like, fucking it's our by
(22:01):
hour sometimes I feel like it's our by hour with
both of them. And by the way, what's so surprising
is is that really truly surprising, and that I'm sure
any mom missing to this can attest to this. Your
kids are so different, and so the way I'm parenting
one works for one and doesn't work for the other,
and so that adjustment back and forth and then having
(22:22):
trying to not look like you're favoring one over the
other or you're you're punishing one in a different way
over the other. It's all I'm learning on the job.
That's what's hard about parenting. Your learning on the job
every day. And I want to do well. I want
it to be success. I want to get I'm the
responsible for their childhoods want them to have amazing memories.
(22:46):
But but yeah, who knows how I'm doing speaking of
you treat them differently ultimately, what how that playsut when
they get a little older, is you start hearing in stereo?
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Well, well that's not fair. Well she got that or
he got that.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Oh you think that's happening when they're old, that's happening now.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Well but that was right for him, and that you
know that's not nice for you.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yes, yeah, it is a time you gotta be It's
you gotta think on your feet. You gotta think on
your feet. But I do feel like it's okay to
think on your feet and have things be different again.
I go back to like relationship, like if you're honest,
if you are if you're if you're saying when you're
frustrated and you're letting something happen because you don't have
the bandwidth, or if you are you know, tired, or
(23:37):
if you're full of energy. I mean all the different
things that you can be in a day. I mean,
we're not robots, right. We have an idea of how
we want this to go, but that doesn't always it
doesn't always go like that, So we have to be adjustable.
And and I do say that to them a lot.
I'm like, listen, this is my first time parent.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Yeah, so I'm going to.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Get it right sometimes, and I'm going to get it
wrong sometimes, and I'm gonna.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Just of the right to walk him back right.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Like I may make a decision about something and say
this is okay, or we can do this, and then
tomorrow I may feel differently, and I will explain that,
I'll explain why, because I do think that's what's amazing
about family, Like I think it's so incredible.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Is that you're a team.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
You're a team that's bound no matter what, by the
fact that you're family. And that's an incredible, incredible thing.
So I do try to remind them, like we always
team family, and so you cannot like what's happening on
a team, or you can think you know expart Z,
but ultimately you're stuck with that team.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yeah, you're stuck with me, So I don't know what
to tell you.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Buck up, Buttercup.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
No, I'm gonna use that. This is why, this is
why I love you, Capshaw, I will use that too.
I'm gonna go home and be like, listen, team the
leader doesn't know what they're doing today. But you're on
the team.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
You made the team, and you can't get.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
On the team, you can't get off. You might get benched.
I'm not sure why. I'll explain tomorrow exactly. I'll have
more idea what's going on tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
I feel like the heading, the heading of this conversation
about Luke and getting his driver's license should have been
buckle up, Buttercup, welcome to parenting.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Yeah, cool up?
Speaker 5 (25:17):
Yeah yeah, Okay.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
We have some We have some incredible people that have
written us today. I love them so our episode.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
By the way, I like to say that I'm very,
very grateful for all of these incredible people that write
in like truly to trust us with these questions and
to be excited to write them.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
I mean, it's just it's really wonderful.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
I want to get into the first one because this
person has very similar ages to my kids. So Jess
wrote in and she said, my husband and I have
two adorable boys, ages two and seven. We are talking
about a third child, but we can't decide if it's
the right decision. How did y'all both know your families
(26:15):
were complete? I can answer this very easily. My family
is complete with just two kids, because I know myself
as a mom, and I know the anxiety that I have,
and I think I would be a better mom to
two kids than three. I think that it would overwhelm
(26:37):
me to the point where, yeah, I just don't think
I would be as good of a mom. And I
think that Matt and I are both feel that way,
and I feel very complete with two myself. You have
four those so this is a different answer for you.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Well, I think it well.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
I think that the answer is that it's a very
personal answer, and you have to The first thing you
can do is be really really touch and really really
honest with yourself and with your partner. And I do
think it's one of those things where you both have
to be on board. You know, you hear a lot
of times partners say, you know one would like another
or you know whatever are you so are you hear
(27:13):
people say you know I didn't want any or I
only wanted one and.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
We had three. But I do think, you know, you
have to do it's right for you.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
But I obviously it is far far better when you
have both parents or multiple parent families, even you're all
on the same page, because I think that it you
up for success. For me, I came from a big family,
so I think that it was very natural and I
didn't feel overwhelmed.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
I didn't feel overwhelmed by more.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
And Luke is three years older than Eve, and then
Poppy is only twenty months younger than Eve. So we
went like boom boom with Luke and a break then Eve,
and then I got pregnant when.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Eve was ten months old.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
So we were in it, and I don't think that
I thought about having a fourth. And then Poppy was
then around like two, and I thought, I think I
really want a fourth. I said to Christopher, what do
you think and He's like, yeah, I think that would
be fantastic.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
And then we.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Sort of opened up the possibility for that to happen,
and I got pregnant and I was so excited and
I had never had any issues before getting pregnant. I
was very lucky and I'm very grateful. And then all
of a sudden, at my ten week appointment went in
for the ultrasound, was by myself totally unsuspecting, and there
(28:36):
was no heartbeat, and.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
That was.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
Horrible.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
It was the most shocking and deeply, deeply sad thing,
and I really honestly couldn't believe it. I could not
believe it. So when I found out that there there
was no heartbeat, and when I found out that I
(29:04):
was not going to have a baby, I was not
going to have that baby. I didn't know what happened next.
It had never happened to me before, so I didn't
know if that meant I was going to get my period,
if I was how this baby was going to pass
through my maddie. I had no idea, and that was
(29:28):
when I then and again, your brain is like not working,
no of it's making sense, And obviously, you know, the
biggest part was then because you don't know when it's
going to happen. And so I remember calling Christopher and
(29:49):
I remember like, just do you say it over the phone?
Do you wait till you're together there's just such deep sadness,
and then sharing with him that that's what was happening,
and then feeling that together, just that deep sadness and
disappointment and disbelief. In a lot of ways, there was disbelief,
(30:10):
and then us going to the doctor and sort of saying, Okay,
so what happens next? And I didn't like, I said,
I didn't know. I didn't know if that meant I
was going to get my period or what was going
to happen. And then she was very the best doctor
in the whole world. I love her so much. She
delivered three of our babies. And she said, well, what
happens next is you have a DNC because that needs
(30:32):
to be cleared out of your body. And these are
the steps that we're going to take.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
And that's healthcare. That's called health care.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
And I was very very very fortunate. I was very
very fortunate that I had a doctor who was so
compassionate and took her time to explain to me what
was going on and to teach me, and then to
be with me in that pain and in that disappointment,
and that I had a partner that was there to
(31:01):
be with me in that pain and in that disappointment,
and then you know, life carried on, you know, and
I had I had a chance to take care of
myself and my body and my relationship and my other children,
and it was really incredible. And you know what was
(31:23):
also very strange to me saying this now because I
feel so differently about it obviously, is that I, all
this sudden was very aware that people don't talk about it. Yeah,
that women have miscarriages all the time, every day. Yeah,
(31:43):
and we don't talk about that. And I didn't talk
about it. I didn't talk about it at work. I didn't.
I talked about it with my close friends. But I
didn't go to work the next day before I had
a DNC, by the way, so I knew that I
was still that I still had this body. And I
went to work the next day and I didn't tell anybody,
(32:04):
and I went to work with that feeling and with
that knowledge. And you know, I think that looking back
on it now, again, I'm not sure exactly how, but
I think that the people who are in relationship with you,
whether they're at work or in your family, if you
can and if it's okay with you, I think it
actually should be talked about so that people can help
(32:27):
take care of you, so that maybe at work that day,
people could have been a little more even more, you know,
understanding or had a chance at understanding what it was
that I was going through, because it is total. It
is a total body experience, a mind and body experience.
And anyways, I do think that I do think it
(32:50):
should be talked about and that it would allow for
people to understand where people are coming from. And everybody
wants to deal with it differently, right And by the way,
if you don't want.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
To talk about it, I think that that's okay too.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
It really is what is personal to you and what
you need in that moment from your community.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Yeah, I think that The thing that I'm very aware
of in my own particular story is that I tell
the story with the perspective of having had three children
already and then not that I knew it, but I
would go on to have another and again, because people
(33:34):
don't often share these stories, we don't know what other
people are going through, and there are so many stories
of people who endure miscarriage after miscarriage after miscarriage that
don't already have children or their story isn't that they
go on to have another child. And sometimes that means
that other things happen, and sometimes that means that they
(33:57):
end up having their children through surrogates, or they end
up adopting, or they end up fostering, or they end
up becoming incredibly close and having an insanely unique relationship
with a friend's child or a relatives child. You know,
we all have different stories, and I'm very mindful in
telling mine to be very clear that mine is only
(34:19):
from my perspective. And the sadness that I felt was
my sadness, and it was unique to me in a
lot of moments, defied reason because again I had children.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
But what I realized in going through it was.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
The very very sharp pain of loss like that, it's
a very very unique sense of loss. So my heart
is with any and all the women, the partners, the
family members that deal with it, because it is.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Truly very very hard.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
And then, you know, we got through that, and then
I had never been more convinced. I was like absolutely
there as a fourth and then I did end up
getting pregnant not soon thereafter, and then I had a
very different relationship with the first trimester.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Obviously, At what point did you feel like you could relax.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
I mean, I definitely I loved being pregnant. I really
really really loved being pregnant. So I would not say
that me and my fourth pregnancy was fraught by any stretch.
And that first trimester, I was very mindful. I was mindful.
I was mindful of my expectation of you know, all
the other pregnancies. I you know, I just everyone crossed
(35:48):
my mind that you wouldn't I wouldn't have a baby
in my arms, you know, forty weeks later, and in
this situation, I was very much aware that that could
not be the story, and so I was cautious, you know,
it was.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
It was.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
I wasn't dressed rehearsing tragedy. I wasn't thinking like, oh,
this is going to be terrible, or this is going
to happen again. I was just cautious with my excitement,
with my feelings. And I definitely think that I got
a real dose of living in the moment. This is
the moment that I am, you know, this many weeks pregnant,
(36:22):
and I'm grateful for this and and and all that.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
So yeah, but it.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Was, it was it was a bit different it was
a bit different. And then when we had Josie, I
was so just over the moon and I absolutely to
answer your question.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Just she came out and I was like, I'm done,
We're done. Yeah, I think yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
I also just cannot imagine you without Josie.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
I mean, I know, the little caboose, Oh, the cabooz booze.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Let's go to Milly.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Let's go to Milly.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
I'm Milly and I'm a first time mom with a
four months old. Do I really need mom friends with
babies of similar ages? None of my friends have babies yet,
But does that matter? Can I just wait until my
baby is going to preschool to find more moms to
be friends with. How much do you think it's important
to make friends at this point with people who have
babies the same age. Well, first of all, don't stress. Yeah,
(37:31):
make friends. You're gonna make friends. You're gonna have babies
in your life. It's all gonna be fine, So don't
worry about this. But I do think that another little,
dirty little secret about parenting.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
I don't know if this happened to Chicamila, was.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
I thought you were to have a baby, and again
it was like you and the baby against the world
and you're gonna be hanging out and everything else.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
And then the baby comes in.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
You're like, oh, that baby has done a very good conversationalist.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Yeah. Yeah, baby's not talking, and the baby sleeps a lot.
That baby just needs stuff all the time.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Yeah, And so the beginning of having a baby can
be like the tiniest bit I'm not sure if this
is the right word, but like a little bit lonely
because you're in full caretaking mode.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
A little bit. I think it can be super fucking lonely. Yeah,
it's just too isolating, yep. Yeah, because also you don't
trust that you can get out of the house in time. No,
you're told like, hey, don't hate you know, watch when
they're young because they're succeptible. And you're like, okay, so
you're kind of you almost like you're quarantining a little bit.
Not everyone feels that way. I felt like I was,
you know, me and my health triggers and anxiety. I
(38:36):
was like, if we go out, we're gonna get a
bola I go to Starbucks.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Leprosed diphoid fever is coming for you.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Yeah. Whatever. From eighteen oh five, it'll be back in
that Starbucks and I'll get it.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
So I definitely stayed home. I did not have family
around me. I had no family. Me and Matt do
not have family in the city. I did not have
a nanny I had. I didn't. I was me and
Hades and Matt and it was isolating. It was really hard.
I do think that you don't have to worry about
(39:14):
having moms with babies that age, although I can see
the benefit because you're like, is this happening to you?
Is this happening to me? I mean I wish, I
kind of wish I had, But I think it's a
personal thing. I think as long as you feel support
from people, it can be it can be enough.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Well, And I think that yes, And so I think
because I think that this question is interesting, It's like,
do you need to have friends with babies?
Speaker 3 (39:39):
No? Can it be really additive? And is it fun.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
To have friends who also have babies, you know, at
similar ages? Yeah, because you you do this, you talk
about it, like, Hey, what's going on for you?
Speaker 3 (39:51):
What's going on for me?
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Talking about the things and then also doing these things
together can be very a lot more interesting than staring
at a baby who doesn't talk.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah, you can both stare together, Yeah, your own babies
or talk well the babies you're talking. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
you can stare and you can have a conversation.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
No, I definitely think so. I do think that naturally,
once your kids are in play school in England preschool here,
like you will, you will absolutely find community. But there
are benefits to finding other mamas that age. But again,
again it's a personal thing because some people might not
need that.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah, for sure, I could have done with that, I
think Okay. Denise writes my lockdown baby, Oh I feel
Ya is starting preschool in September. She's four and has
very big emotions. It takes time for her to build
trust with adults, and our stay and play sessions have
not gone well. I've done this three times before, but
(40:51):
she is the most emotional about it. Is it lockdown?
Do I just have a totally different child? It's stressing
me out. Help. I was this kid big feelings. I
had very big feelings. I wanted to be around my
mom all the time. I cried at birthday parties if
she went out of my sight. I was this child.
I don't think it's lockdown. I mean, it could be
(41:13):
part of it, that could be part of it. But
I do think that some children just are not you know,
they don't want to be left away from their parents.
And I think that, you know, when I dropped Hayden
off at her school for the first time, she was
actually totally fine, very independent, and then I dropped when
we dropped her off at school for the first time,
she was one of the last kids to be okay
(41:35):
with it. She was crying for a long time, and
I kept hearing that it does get better, and it
really feels like it doesn't. You feel like it's going
to be an absolute nightmare, and somehow, at some point,
before you know it, they're just waving goodbye to you,
and you feel like it's not going to happen. I
felt like all the I guld see all the other
kids doing it, she was still crying. It really does happen,
(41:57):
So I would not quite simply, I don't think you
would have a different child. I understand the stress. I
was also this kid, And it gets better, it really does.
It feels daunting, but it gets a lot better.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
I totally agree with that, and.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
I think that there are a lot of kids who
just have big feelings and they actually don't go away.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
That's just how they're built, how they're put together.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
I mean a lot of quite frankly, if this helps
you to think this way, geniuses.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
Total geniuses just have really big feelings.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
They have access to a whole other emotional well, and
it might be deeper than another.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
I think that it's then about you.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
And how you manage your parenting and how you manage
them and how you help them feel different degrees of
safe or secure or heard and seen, because typically I
find that the kids that feel out of control or
have the super big feelings are not connecting the feeling
(43:06):
with what's going on, Like what I mean, Am I
scared that my mom's going to leave because she's not going.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
To come back?
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Is that what I'm dealing with?
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Or am I scared about my mom leaving because I
mean like fill in the blank. I think it's so
obviously you know, for as verbal, but as they get
more and more able to communicate with you is just
asking those questions, get really getting really curious about, like
tell me what you're worried about?
Speaker 3 (43:34):
Like how do we solve for these things?
Speaker 1 (43:36):
How do we what are you worried about what do
you think is going to happen. Let's run through those
scenarios and if that happens.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
What will you do? How do you become more prepared?
Because ultimately, again going back to Luke and his driver's.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
License, you're you're raising them to trust themselves, to trust
themselves to fix any problem that comes their way, because ultimately,
in strength and in confidence they will they will know,
and they will know it with your help for quite
a while, but then they will know it on their own,
or they'll make mistakes and then they'll learn it a
different way. Right, But ultimately that you continued to be
(44:13):
curious about helping them help themselves.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
I also did this little thing. Yes it does. And
I also do this little thing that I still do
now with hate. And when she gets nervous about stuff,
when we're leaving her we have to travel or something
like that, we take a marker pen and we draw
a heart. We let her draw heart on us, and
we draw a heart on her hand, and so we're connected.
And if you have feelings, I want you to look
(44:37):
at the heart. And it's like this thing that I
feel like reminds her that we're there or reminds her
of the conversation of like I'm coming back, just a
little thing that we've always done. Yeah, Jessica Capshaw, I
love you so much. I love you, and I love
you for sharing because I know these things are not easy.
(45:00):
Wish they were easier to share, and I just think
you're so sking awesome for telling that story today.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
Well, I'm very glad to have shared it, and I'm
also very I'm very grateful to have you know, it
sounds crazy, but I'm grateful to have had it happen
and to be able to move through it and another
proof that you know, really hard, really terrible things can
(45:28):
happen and you can still be okay.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
Yeah, okay, I'm gonna let you call it.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
Call it. The end of the episode.
Hosts And Creators
Jessica Capshaw
Camilla Luddington
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