Call It with Ariana DeBose

Jess is flying solo with actress and singer, Ariana DeBose.

They discuss insecurities and fitting into the industry, working with castmates who can’t remember their lines and interesting toxic traits.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Call It What It Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camille Luddington,
an iHeartRadio podcast. Hello, Hello, Hello, Welcome to another episode
of Call It What It Is with a very special guest.

(00:24):
My dear, I get to look at your eyes while
I say this in person, in real life, Arianna Devozo. Hi.
We got too excited, and we got too excited we
saw each other, and now I'm like, okay. Just when
I first saw you in the green room, I actually
thought to myself, Okay, just don't talk for a minute,
but you gotta save it. These are things that sometimes

(00:45):
when Camille and I will get on we'll be like no, no, no,
and I'll be like, save it. You are one of
my favorite people to talk to and we don't get
to see each other enough. So you coming on here
today is such a gift, just for all the reasons,
like spams, the friend category, the professional category, all the categories.

(01:06):
I've been thinking about you a lot the past couple
of days, in knowing that I was about to see you, okay,
and I was thinking, do you remember when we first met.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
We were on No Pressurets at West Side Story right and.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
We were shooting.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
It was one of the days we were shooting America
in New Jersey, yep. And I can't remember. I think
I was injured. I had a busted ankle, and I
was like, in my mustard yellow garb, the most beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
It was so gorgeous.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
Thank you, Paul Taswell Academy Award Winter Paul Taso.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
We love to see it, those costumes.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
And I was a little like dazed because I was like, oh,
I've got to I've got to run up hills and
I've got a twirl and the skirt is a bit
heavy and awesome, and you were just like hi, and
you talked to.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Me like we know each other for years, and I
was like, maybe we have I's like dig her spirit
and maybe I needed this verst of energy. Not a
clue what I said to you, though, Okay, So my
memory all of that tracks and makes complete sentence sentence.
It makes complete sense because you I had sort of

(02:20):
been with you longer than you've been with me, right,
because the casting process is so long, especially in a
case like this, yeah, long, and you being on my
side of it, which is just you know, in the
family of you were so familiar and the story of

(02:40):
who plays who and how and all that stuff is
sort of something that I'm definitely not a part of,
but that I am. I am in proximity too, So
you had I had a familiarity with you, and I
remember actually first meeting you on stages behind the camera
and being like in awe of even being really shy,

(03:02):
and you being super warm and giving me a really
big hug and like, oh my gosh. And I think
that you had maybe mentioned that you had either watched
or seen Grays and I was like, yeah, she knows
who I am. Yes, I knew you were. Are you kidding?
It was so clear being on that set that every
single person was giving their actual everything. Yeah, it was bananas.

(03:25):
That time was so it was very visceral.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
But it's even sitting here now, it's like I remember
like what it felt like, but I don't remember all
of the details anymore, And oh my god, I hope
as I.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
Mature that the details come back.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
But it was such a visceral time and there was
so much energy and everyone was working so hard, but
no one worked harder than hefe.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
Like Stephen was in there. It was the first one
in and the last one out. Yeah, every night, well
and he never really goes out because as you meet
with him, yeah, it's in the car and he's thinking
and he's looking at the window. Yeah, he's I have
to say, he's so self aware that man has done
his work at work and also at home. Because when
I was younger, my experience was that he would you would,

(04:15):
he would just be lost in thoughts. But you were.
I wasn't old enough to know that those thoughts were
about work. I just you know, it would mean to me, like,
you know, he was just he was somewhere else, right,
And now there's this self awareness where even just the
other day, we were gonna have dinner and he said
to me on the phone beforehand, he said, hey, I
just want to let you know. You know, I'm prepping
for this thing and I'm really thinking about it a lot.

(04:35):
So if I don't talk for a little bit, it's
really about that. It's not about anything else. And I was,
that's so it's so gross, it's so adults.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
It's so always interesting your parents are real adults, real adults.
And like for creative brains, I mean we come across
creative people all the time, right, not all creatives very mature.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
What what about what so and other interested.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
Uh yeah, And I love that fact about him. To
be who he is, to have all the experience he has,
and to be such a deep, deep thinker and to
have that self awareness, it's rare.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
It's rare. It's kitties, it's rare. Well. And also speaking
of that, I think that having just lived such a
long life with him as a creator and as a parent,
I've really watched him create these work families. And when
I was younger, I did a different relationship with it
because I kind of was a little jealous, you know,

(05:37):
not I want to take it away from you, weigh,
but in like a oh, you really like working with her?
That's nice. I get that she does that so well,
that's great. God, she was so good, was she. I
didn't actually think she was that good that seeing Honestly,
I thought you could have pulled something better out of her.
But it's fine, it's great. They're so nice.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
I actually get that though My mom's a public scho
teacher and so and she raised me a single parent.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
Gina shout out to Gina Jana.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
But I get that because there were times in my
childhood where, you know, when you're an educator, you inevitably
if you're a parent.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
Also, you don't just have one kid, You got all
the kids are teaching.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
You spent so much much time not only educating but
raising in a way.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
Yeah, other people's children. Yeah. And I did at times
feel like I was sharing her. And there were times.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
My childhood that I had to check myself because I
was like, Oh, you really like that student.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
That student's so smart. I'm smart. So I remember you
having this work family. I remember going to visit. I
remember being wowed that you knew who I was. I
then remember watching you on the cue. They have the
monitors and you watch the performances by the chairs, and
I was sitting that was there with Tony Kushner and
the dialect coach.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
Victor Cruze and Tom Jones were our dialect coaches.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
I believe Tom was there that day and script and
it was just watching the magic and yan Oush and
the lighting and this you're watching. You're watching magic happen
and it's been happening, and I I couldn't be more
grateful to have been able to watch this, you know,
for the great majority of my life. So that's when
I remember first meeting you. But then I remember I

(07:19):
had to go back to Los Angeles because it was
shot in New York and New Jersey. I went back
to Los Angeles for work and I had to take
a red Eye, which I strongly just like. And I
came and I landed, and I came straight to New Jersey.
I remember you coming down this street and it was
like magic, like the dancing, the intensity you're you have

(07:46):
a great game face. Your face was I mean, every
single fiber of you was in this and the I
mean again I don't know the correct terms, but like
just all the like choreography, yes, the choreography, and you
came around and you were looking at the you know,
actors come around to look at the playback to make
sure that they're doing and you were this incredible balance

(08:09):
and I want to hear you talk about it. Oh
my god, I love that.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
That's your experience of watching meat process and how I'm
doing whatever whatever it.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
Is that I'm doing. At the time.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
It was very funny because I I didn't really like
to watch a lot of playback, and Hefe and I
had spoken and I was like, I'm going to trust
you on the scenes. I'm not going to watch my
playback on scenes because I will get to I was
very self conscious about my acting, and I was like,
if you think you got it, then I'm gonna trust you,

(08:42):
and you got it.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
Because you would be worried that you would I.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
Would not be in balance, yep. Whereas with dance, I'm
such a technician that But I also like, for me,
dances is spiritual.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
It's like communion.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
So I know what I'm looking for, and I'm like,
this is a moment where this character needs to let go,
and this is a moment where I do need to
execute this technique. So I was able to find balance,
and so that's what I was really looking for. Is
like Justin Peck, our choreographer on that film, who, by
the way, I don't think he gets his flowers enough.
Oh he did such a beautiful job in executing both

(09:20):
the Sharks and the Jets, creating two different worlds.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Because that's really what I think.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Is movie musical magic is the definition of worlds.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
And I think the best musicals you really get to
see that.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
I haven't seen it in every movie musical since West
Side Story, but I have seen it in a few times.
But Justin really did that well and So what I
was looking for that day because that section there are
moments that are odes to the original nineteen sixty one
film and odes to the Broadway stage production and the
original choreo.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
That I was like, this does have to be right.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
They would have done it this way, not this way,
and I was trying to tweak that whilst also finding
those moments of like real clarity within losing oneself. So
it's it's alchemy, is really what I think I'm doing.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, but I don't know what I'm doing. Well, you
did it. You did it in one hundred and five
degree weather and a very y'ah knews's lights. He said,
it's already hot. Let's put another football stadium light on you.
It just looks so beautiful. Everything was painful, question Mark,
I don't know it was painful. I mean I burned
wholesome shoes. That was what I was going to get.

(10:37):
So I remember that how many different pairs of she
so I think she's talking about burning holes in the
soles of her shoes because of how hot the pavement
was and how hard you were dancing. Yes, I mean
you were a lot of twirling, so much twirling.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
So the reality of situation is we're dancing on cement.
It's not like there's a.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
Floor are laid out on the street for you. You're
dancing on the cement. And I just whittled down the
body of my shoes. Classy. It was worth it. It
was so it was so worth it. It was worth
it all again. Yeah, there's nothing I would have changed
about any of that. I really wouldn't have well, maybe
a few things, but it's okay, progress, not perfect, progress,

(11:20):
not perfection.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
But I loved it, and it's something I deal with
kind of on the daily because that film and that
process of getting to dance and getting to sing and
act and do all of these things.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
And I'm really I think.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
I'm really good at in one film with great material.
Thank you Tony Kushner for that beautiful adaptation. That was
the very thing I did, I know, and it was
for all intentsive purposes perfection.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
Of an experience, truly like collaborative. Ah woar.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Years from having given it to the world, we made
it pre panned.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
Yeah, yeah, so that was a minute ago. I was
cast in twenty eighteen. Yep. Wow, it's so insane.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
Banana pancakes and the movie got made in twenty nineteen.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yeah, I could be wrong, but the timeline, the timeline,
the timeline was funky because we had time as relative.
Time is relative. Time is relative.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
But then it was a long time so to have
done that first, and now there are reasons why I'm like.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
I'll try anything. You cannot duplicate that alience. And I've
come to the conclusion that, like, you gotta stop trying.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
You just got to show up everywhere you go and
accept the experience and try and like do your part
in it.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
In a weird way, I think that the environment that
we're working in right now as actors, I'm only I'm
only an actor. I'm not a triple threat like you.
In my own mind, I like to think, here's the thing.
I like to think I could sing. I actually know
I can't dance. I'm sure sure, yes I will. I

(13:17):
will make the story short. But there was a time
in young Jessica Kaepshaw's life and she too was willing
to try anything, and she auditioned for I'm talking about
myself in the third person. Else I'm gonna go with it.
She auditioned for Thoroughly Modern Milli the Revival, and she
made it to final callbacks and got flown to New
York City to complete the trible threat process. And yes,

(13:40):
she fell apart during the dancing. She knows. It's been proven.
It's a lot of tap. It was so tap tap
harm horrendous. It was. I was terrible. I wish there
was I'm not joking. I actually genuinely wish there was
camera on it. Maybe there is, I could find it.
It would nothing would give me greater pleasure. It wasn't
that a genine story show. She might would have the

(14:02):
tape on that. Yeah, and you know what I feel
like maybe at some point during the filming of she
said something about like didn't.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
You about it the time?

Speaker 1 (14:16):
But again, in my mind, it's okay, great. In my mind,
I'm a pop star. Oh yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
Like, in my mind, I am just doing my things,
probably along the lines of like Gaga style, just because
she could not put that woman at a box. She's
everything and all things. But that's what I am in
my mind. But I'm actually I'm just trying to triple
thread it and like hold a line.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
But before you went on to do all that, you
had to do that little thing which is called winning
an Oscar. Yeah, And I'm just curious because we don't
need to belaebor the point you want it. We know it.
Spoiler alert, she wanted one. I'm curious, what if you
were going on opposite ends the spectrum, the thing that

(15:01):
you now remember really enjoying the most about that journey,
if you will, And I guess I mean from like
the minute you get the phone call saying you're nominated
for an Academy Award to you're standing on stage accepting
a fucking Academy award, which is again, I mean, you
just talked about a perfect experience and then sort of

(15:22):
I mean a perfect ending. Yeah, you know, to wrap
that nicely up. So I'm curious what the thing was
that you enjoyed the most about that and then the
thing that you were like, oh man, okay, that happened.
And I'm really happy that that's a mammor ofview mirror. Oh,
I know, just pick one.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
You know, I'm still just so grateful that it happened.
I think I knew for me the win was getting
to make the movie itself, because at the time I
was sure they were going to stun cast that thing.
I was like, I don't have a chance in hell.
Why would I go in for that, like just to

(16:07):
be like thank you so much. On my god, you're talented,
but you're not getting this job. So just the fact
that I got to make the movie was the thing.
I was surprised by every single nomination. Every time I
think people ask like, were you faking, like you know
you're winning. Think Katrina Bouf at one point during the

(16:28):
Awards season was like, you know you're winning, And I
was like, I don't, like I think I won a BAFTA. Yeah,
it's like they said my name and I was like.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
Holy shit, I don't go here. I don't go here
my home school. No, it's not like I was.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
I was just honored to be included because I was like,
like British film.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yetish theater, Like, yeah, it is a whole thing. I
love it. I revere it. I'm still watching BBC. I
love those shows. The writing is better girl.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
Sorry those writers, man, they get it right over there.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
But like, I just was.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
Surprised by it all, and so I was able to
truly enjoy every moment. There were little sprinkles of drama
here and there, because honestly, actors the nature of the beasts,
I know, but like the joy outweighed any of that.
I the rear view mirror portion of your question. I

(17:30):
didn't realize. I can't think of a better way to
say this. I didn't realize what a race it actually was, though,
Like once you give the movie, like you you'll do
a press tour for the release of the film, and
da da da da, and that's like great because you're
all celebrating, and then the awards stuff starts happening.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
And I didn't realize what a race it was, Like,
what a campaign it was.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
I can't realize the stamina. And I didn't realize how
many people I was going to have to talk to
and meet, Like, I didn't realize how tired I was
gonna be. I got sick, I developed fifty two food allergies. Yeah,
I was stressed out all the time. But I was
thrilled that I was even getting the opportunity to do.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
With this thing. Yeah. And that is funny because that
is the weight in the counterweight, because so often people
who are listening or watching people talk about the experience
of this exact thing. Yeah, Like people are like, oh,
she's so tired, Oh he's so tired, Like, how tired
must it be? Because they see the glamorized parts, they

(18:39):
see the fashion, or they see they see the result,
they see all that and or they watched I mean
again show. I mean, being on a show that works
ten months out of the year is very different than
being on a movie for three months. So you know,
in our world, it was like if you were sick, okay,
so you're still showing up, take your pills. At this point,

(19:01):
I put a mask because it was before they would
even have you put on They would never have you
put on a mask. You would show up and you
would just yeah, for sure, don't touch anyone. I mean,
I don't think I'm like, I don't. I don't think
I'm like letting out some dirty dark secret. But there
was always like the doctor. They'd call the doctor. There
was definitely some sort of like B B three shots,

(19:23):
something like that, twelve like complex because if they need
to just prop you up sometimes they will, oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
One of my most infamous at this point, but one
of my most infamous performances I've given in my career
was not the year I wanted aft up, but the
year after that with the whole did the thing debacle.
I think it was still fun whatever. Yeah, but I
was very sick. Yeah, and I'm trained for the show
to go on. And I did have a doctor come

(19:51):
and prop me up yep, so that I could fulfill
the commitment. I said that I would do yeah them,
and I did want to, but I was like, wow, hi, pneumonia.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah, No, the show must go on. But the show
went on and I did my thing and I went home. Yeah,
and you.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
Know, I got to eight a lie for it and again
lesson learn Hindsight's twenty twenty.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, pneumonia, stay home. I know, I know, I know.
We need to learn. We need to learn, but that's okay,
we need to grow. It's also we do.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
We do need to grow, and I make different decisions
as a result of that experience now. But I do
think you get to moments like that because a part
of the I hate to do it, but the system.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
That was created that we were all.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
Sort of like indoctrined by. Yeah, there are things that
you do. You push forward, you say yes, you keep
going yeah, no matter what I know, And that's not
always healthy. And I think it is a myth that
you can do it all yes, can I do it all?

Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yeah, but I can't do it all at one time? Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
And the idea that that's achievable, I think is unhealthy.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
So for me, I do like what you say, maybe
it's not balanced, it's compromise, right, Like, I will compromise
this thing for the moment so that I can do
this and do it really well.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yeah, and I it's sort of again, I mean, it's
so mindset base, but it's also this it feels like
the same or similar relationship that I had when I
started realizing what the difference was between reactivity and responsivity. Yeah, Like,
how am I in this situation? Is my reaction what
this situation needs? Or is actually the best thing for

(21:41):
me to hmm, sit with it for a second, take
a couple breaths, maybe sit in a little discomfort even right,
discomfort is great. It has been my greatest teacher of
the last year. Talk about that I've had.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Hey, I mean, twenty twenty five has been a but
twenty twenty four was a real yeah too, Like I
had several like situations where I just was like, I,
my response is not necessary, it's not I cannot control.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
Cannot control. Oh, it's a word. It's it is. It
is well in a world that surges for perfection. Yeah,
control is like m it seems like the highway to it,
but it's not. It's so not. In fact, it's the antithesis.
It's flow the roadblock. Lets the roadblock, like, let go
with that stit.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
But I I had several situations and it just felt
like I was like, ooh, this is one thing after another.
But the answer to all of it was to let
myself be uncomfortable, to hear it, learn what is mine,
to take on what is not mine, water off a

(22:58):
ducts back.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
But yeah, I have to breathe through it.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
You just have to, because not everything needs a response
from you. I want to defend myself so often, and
I would love to tell people how wrong they are,
But guess what, it's not really gonna help the situation
because people are gonna say and do and think what
they want to think without being informed.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
Yep. And that's their ignorance, not mine. Yep. I can
only do what I can do.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
So last year was a practice for me of sitting
in my discomfort and actually thinking consciously about what I
want to choose.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
So when you talk about not knowing what you're doing. Now,
will you do you? Do you believe that you need to? Like,
do you think that you'll think about it and then
you'll manifest it and it will come? Or you vision
boardy or do you that's a good question.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
I'm I do vision board a journal a lot, but
I stopped getting I used to be like.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
Oh my god, I would love to work with so
and so one day and I got their picture. I'm
a little bit board. Or I'd love to make a.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Movie, lie and h, I'd love to do this vias
the call.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
I don't do that anymore.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
I I use photos to represent the feeling of an
experience that I would like to have, because I realized,
in trying to manifest so specifically, I was leaning into
an assumption I had made about what that experience would be,

(24:59):
or an assumption i'd made about a person I really
want to work with.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
Because when you're.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
Or in my youth, like a lot of people do,
we look at starry people and because of the access
that the media has.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
To them, we assume that that is so clearly who
they are. We know them, they're our bestie. Yeah they're not.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
And I love all of the folks that I've had
the privilege to work with. But I would be lying
if I didn't say that I've met some folks that
I really thought were one thing or this was the
narrative that they put out in.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
The world, and it became a different thing.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
And when you make assumptions about people, you rob them
of their humanity because the reality is they have the
right to be whoever they are. Yeah, And so I
was like, that was a big thing for me, So
I stopped manifesting so specifically, but like, I want to
I want to work with this these types or these
people and more like I would like an experience that

(25:58):
is a.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Fantasy type of peace, and.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
The people that come together to make it happen are
truly collaborative and.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
Like really want to play in like the most weird
creative ways, Like.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
I manifest from that space now, Yeah, because then I
can be surprised by who the universe sends me. And
I trust and trust, so I'm in a real trust relationship.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
I love it trust with the universe right now. I
used to think that manifesting was like telling the universe
what I wanted and then then it to give us me.
That's not how it works. It's not how it works.
I I appreciate you describing your experience because it sounds wise. Yeah,
I that has really worked for me.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
I've also gone on a spiritual journey over the last
couple of years, spending time with the universe, whatever that
is to you. That could be going on a walk,
noticing the trees, listening to the sounds of wherever you are, Like,
that's that's spiritual to me.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
Yeah. And how you commune with it, like how you
how are you get from it? What do you get
from it? What energy are you putting out? And how
quickly it can change your day? Like, so we're in
New York City, right, We're in New York City at
the end of March, which on any given years, really
you never know what you're gonna fucking get, really, don't.
I saw daffodils the other day and they changed your

(27:20):
whole day. I heard you say like, this is what
I'm good at, and this is what I want and
I and I know this about myself, and that to
me is so easy and confident. And I've seen you perform,
I know you as a person. So that's like, yes, check,
I'm so glad she sees her like I see her.
When do you find yourself on the other side of that?

(27:41):
When do you? When do you? What are the creepy sneaky?
You know? Because a lot of our listeners, you know,
will either call in with questions, and there are different
parts of their life, right, like they're in high school
or they're you know, in their twenties, thirties, all the decades, right,
and there's so many questions about like ugh, I I
I tell myself this story and I doubt myself, or

(28:02):
I think I've got I think I've already seen everything,
like the end game has already arrived. I'm gonna be
in this job forever, I'm going to be in this
toxic friendship forever. I'm in the wrong friend group, I'm
I want to be in this one like all these things.
And when you find yourself in those moments, is there
something that is unique to you that kind of helps
you get out of it or reframe it? I mean

(28:26):
I love that question first of all. Yeah, I love
a reframe yep. From this space of.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
I think every person, place, thing, experience that I have
in my life is literally a lesson every single person,
and it could be big or small. So I try
to reframe things when I have these moments of self

(28:57):
doubt or this feels like I've grown out of it. Okay, well,
if that is the question, If the question is I've
grown have I grown out of this space? Answer the
question for yourself. But also have you asked the questions?
For example, in a friend group. I love that as
a as an example in a friend group, if you

(29:20):
think you've grown out of it, have you used your words?
Have you actually made the effort to be in conversation
with these people that have been lifelong friends. Or if
something has gone down and it's not great, is the
offense so vile that you don't want to have the
conversation And it doesn't matter what the answer is, but

(29:41):
just know that that's the answer.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
If your answer is no, you got to own that. No. Yeah,
So if anyone ever asks you got an answer like no,
I walked away. So because we live in this time
now with the phones, we can just spit off the
like first of all, cop out. No, I know, cop out.
So you're saying, go, go ask the questions, say the things, Go.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
Say the things when you're living through wild times like this, Yes, yes,
I think the way that you survive them, the way
that you enrich yourself, your humanity, your your human experience,
is by asking those questions of yourself and other people.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
And you got to be brave. And you do have
to be brave.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
There's some conversations I'm putting off because I'm too chicken
shit to have them.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
I know, oh, I know that I got a girl pair.
Put my girl pants pretty soon and have them. Because
what do you do to do that? Like, how do
you do you self talk? Do you give yourself a deadline?

Speaker 2 (30:37):
I do like a deadline because hey, accountability love.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
I do like a deadline.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
But I also, again, being an energy person, I have
to feel my way into it.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
And nine times out of ten, if I set that
deadline and I'm committed to getting there, the moment will
show up before the deadline.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
Yeah, but that's because I'm.

Speaker 2 (31:01):
Like, no, I know that I need to have this conversation.
I want to have this conversation. But again, if you
ask yourself those questions, need want the why will it
change anything?

Speaker 1 (31:12):
Mm hmmmm mmm hmm. Those are great because there are
a lot of people whose ears are closed. They don't
want to be opened. Yeah, or better, worse or whatever.
But I just feel like, okay, stop with the going.
If you're doing that and you're following that and you're
not getting what you need or want from it, that's

(31:33):
an awsome. I was gonna say, that's the and having
the courage to hear it, not just I was.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
I was at a dinner with a director that I love,
and we were chatting and we were talking about two
very different experiences but similar in the ways that when
you're working in groups, sometimes like the group that found
you and gave you your start may not always be
the group that's like.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
Gonna see you and elevate.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
Sometimes you got to take a big leap and run
away and go do it yourself.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
Yeah, it's not unkind to grow, it's not You're not
doing anything to that group by leaving. And how you
do it is the most important thing. Yes, yes see
I love that. Oh my god, you just modeled literally
what I do.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
Like I sit there and I'm like, cool, birds of you,
how are we going to do this? And I like
to say, like, it's how you Nine times out of
ten it's not necessarily what you're saying, but it's how
you're saying is and in a professional capacity and personally,
I mean, I'm blunt.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
I will say, are you, but I will say it kindly.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
Yes, you do the first time, the second time, the
third time.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
You're pushing you luck. I know I respect that about you.
I'm not great at that yet. I'm gonna work in
progress in that way, you know. And it's funny because
other people. I say this to my kids all the time.
They say things, and especially the teenagers. It's not what

(33:08):
they're saying the content. The content of what you're saying.
The content is totally passable. Yay, good for you. That's
a great question to ask, it's how you asked it.
And oftentimes and it's made me think, hmm, is there
a connection between adolescents and adulthood in this way? They

(33:30):
don't hear themselves right? And I feel like I've spent
quite a bit of time with adults that I am
now understanding as people who do not hear themselves, ding
ding ding. And I need to figure out when I
can say, oh, they just don't hear themselves, and when

(33:51):
I need to say you use me hear yourself, You're not,
or rather I'm I'm this is what I'm hearing from you.
Does that match up with what you're trying to say? Yeah,
because if it doesn't, then we can have a conversation.
And if it does, fuck off. You're not for me
the road Like I'm done. I can't. Yeah. And and

(34:14):
I wish you well. I do. And that's the thing.
I love a lot of people from Afar, I really do.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
I love a lot of people from Afar because I'm
just like, I respect it.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
I see it. Yeah, I cannot vibe with that energy. Yeah,
it's draining to me. Yeah. And what if you do
if you work I mean, you know, I mean, what
do you do when you're working with that? Oh? Boundaries
a love boundary? Oh but are you one of those
people who can like I'm asking for a friend cold. No,

(34:47):
I know you're not cold, because I know you, But
I'm saying, like, are you able? Is it? Like? Is
the boundary kind of like? Because again, we work, we
work in an environment where we're doing the scenes and
then they call cut and then we go to our
cast chairs or our trailers or whatever. But there's still
community outside of the scene, right, Yeah, And so when
you're working with someone, well, it's just like I'm going
to manufacture the example, so it's not in personal right,

(35:08):
but like someone who's like they can't stop talking and
it's just such a dream, Like everything's wrong. The costume
is not right, and the makeup didn't have this, and
the coffee is terrible, and like everything's wrong. And I
struggle with the fact that I probably am a little
bit I'm a little the other direction. I'm like, everything's great. Yeah,

(35:29):
you're holding a bagish, it's not that great, right, Okay,
I'm just kidding, But it's not dripping on me.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
Like the container is fine, the bag is not at all.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah. No, but like when they're doing that, So when
you're working and they call it, do you do? You
is the boundary, the personal boundary, and then once you
start working, you're able, like you're like we're in a
different world and so who we are doesn't matter. I've
done a couple I've done it a couple of different ways.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
I've still very much in process and feel like every
time I've made a film, like my choices.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
Are a little different.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, I'm not exceptionally methods. Sometimes my characters like creep
in a little bit.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yeah, yeah, but I'm the type of person that.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
If you've caught me on a good day, I'd be like, ugh, babes,
I had a joy, and then I will go to
crafty and get a snack because yeah, there's my joy.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
Yeah yeah yeah, that to me helps put up a
boundary joy babes. Yeah, I find a joy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
Fine, you catch me on a day where I might
have had it a little bit, and it's gonna be.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
Like, do you hear yourself? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (36:44):
Okay, okay, I mean you're excellent, but do you hear yourself?

Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah? Cool? And then action, yeah, yeah I have.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
I mean, sometimes the choice, depending on who you're dealing with,
I mean, sometimes the choice is to just let I.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
Know, you know, and that's hard. I know. I'm a helper.
I do like me too.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
I can't fix anybody's like problems, but I like to
support and help if I can well.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
And obviously the let them is is so interesting because it's,
you know, it hails from just ancient religions and a
little bit of stoicism, a little bit this little bit that.
But mel Robbins has made it very popular with her book,
which is a beautiful book, and we had her on
the show and it was very funny because Camilla, we're
very in and yang and I wish she was here,
and she was like, I'm missing Ariana. But she she

(37:36):
was a little bit like and you hear it in
the podcast. She's like, I'm like, yes, all on board,
Like let them, let them go do their thing. And
they could just be talking all sorts of stuff about
me somewhere else and I'm just going my fine with that.
And she's a little bit like, hold hold on a second.
Why do I have to let them? Why do I
have to let them? And she she talked to mel

(37:58):
and she was like, hmm, no, I don't know about this,
like what about this? And what about that? And it
was great because I realized that and it's my way.
It's okay. I will take the information in and go
be the helper and the doer and the fixer and
the whatever. And we need those, right, we need those
in our communities. We also need the people that are like,

(38:19):
oh wait a second, wait a second, prove it, prove it.
Why why do you think so? Because then we actually
really deeply believe in it. It's been it's been shown
to us, it's been proven, it's been questioned. I mean
that's the most amazing thing about debate. I love that.
I love that when it's in a respectful way, right.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
I love that story that maryl tells about Jane Fonda
when they were doing Julia, and Meryl was like, well,
apparently it was like one of her first films or something.
She's so excited to be there, and she's like, goes
for rehearsal and she like dad, and they're putting things
on the floor and da da dah.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
So they do the first first take and it's fabulous.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
She's like, Gray, I'm gonna try something new, and she
does something completely different.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
And then Jane says, Eryl, if you stand on the marks,
you will be in the light and then you will
be in the movie. It's like, well, I.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
Think she told that story at Jane's like afi lifetime
achievement ceremony, and it's I've never forgotten it. And in fact,
I watched that when I was like on the road
doing Bringing On the Musical years ago, because that's how
I was like learning, and I never forgot that. I
was like, if I ever make a movie, I know
that the tape on the floor is my mark, and
I need to stand on it.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
Because then I will be in the light, I will
be in the movie. Yeah, that's exactly right. That was
a hard lesson for me to learn, girl, because I
liked when I first came into it, When I first
came into this business as an as an actual I mean,
I'd always been on the sidelines watching it and just
like with the literal stars in my eyes, watching all
these incredible people do all these incredible things. It was
a little bit, I mean a bit, like you said,

(40:06):
starting off with something that was just so I mean,
it's so hard to come up with the word right.
It's like it's not perfect, it's not high end, it's
so ideal, like it's an ideal everything. You're working with
people who are the best of the best and all that.
So you got to be in it as your first
like like that you said, first experienced thing. I got

(40:27):
to watch from the sidelines, and so in a lot
of ways, I thought that's how everybody was, right. I
thought everybody brought their best game, their a game, and
I thought everybody was like Tom Hanks who famously says,
right like, he shows up on time, and by on time,
he means a little bit early, a little bit earlier,
and he knows his text, which means he knows his lines. Yeah,

(40:47):
you ever worked with people who don't know their lines? Yes,
it's very hard. It is. Can't be. Can't find it
uniquely challenging, It really can't be.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
I I have learned, though, and I don't know if
this is like a toxic trait.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
I will improv to help them find their line. I
think that's being a helper. I know. I guess what
you do after is probably what's either helpful or not helpful. Really, No, oh, look,
I have the privilege of working with the like I

(41:28):
don't know.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
I just I will when I show up, and I
can only speak for myself and what I do. But
like when I show up, like, I'm like, nope, I'm
going to do whatever I need to do to get
the best performance out of me and probably you too.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
Yeah, yeah, because that's just what it is.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
No I even know, like what you're walking into. I
don't enjoy it when other people don't know their lines.
I try not to be the person that doesn't know
their line.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
Yeah, but every once in a while this happens.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
You have a bad day and you're just like, what,
what's the line?

Speaker 1 (41:57):
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, it doesn't connect. Yeah, And I'm not
trying to blame the writer, but sometimes when it doesn't connect,
I actually if it doesn't over and over and over again,
I do actually always go I always think of me first,
and then I just go, is there, like, am I
bumping on this for a reason? Does it not connect
to the thing? Why would they say that? Do I
not think to say this? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (42:16):
Well, and I've I've learned over a couple of years.
It's like, oh, this is why I want to get
to know the writers i'm working with really well, because
I want to understand why they did we did. And
I want to also have that like open communication of
being able to ask questions because if I don't feel
safe on a set to be like home human, homeboy, homegirl,
home whatever, person, can we chat?

Speaker 1 (42:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (42:40):
Because I am busting this up for you, yes, and
not the positive way, and I really want to get
it right.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
Yeah. And I've said that very thing many times.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Yeah, I'm busting it up for you not a great way.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
Well, I mean again, just having been on a show
for so long where you have so many lines and
so you're doing so many pages a day, I mean
on a movie you're doing. I mean, yeah for people
listening that don't know about this making, yeah, but when
you're making a movie, you're probably doing like what a
couple pages a day. I mean, if you're doing an
action movie, you're doing like half a page a day,

(43:13):
and on a television show you're doing nine to I
think one days, like twelve pages in a day. So
it's a lot of dialogue. It's a lot of dialog.
And to be fair, there was an actor who was
I was working with. They could not remember their lines
to save their life. And the farthest that I went,
I didn't just improv. I was like, we're not all

(43:35):
going to go home unless this gets done, so let's
help get this done. I went over to scripty and
I grabbed some blank pages and I wrote down their
lines and I taped them to my chest so that
they could just because the camera didn't even need to
be on them, no, right, it just we just needed

(43:57):
them to just say it. It happened, and I drove
home that night and I had the same thought like,
is this a toxic trait? Is this a toxic date? Helper?
Right now?

Speaker 2 (44:08):
And it again, compromise, balance, whatever you want to call it,
but sometimes you got to get in there and just
get it done. Yes, It's like I think about the
state of our industry sometimes, and you know, a lot
of these shows cost a lot of money. There's a
lot of time, a lot of resources, a lot of
people are doing so much work to make this thing

(44:29):
happen and not I know, we as the actors are
the like shiniest part of the.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
Front of house. We're the front of house, but we're
like the last component.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
So many other things got to come together for us
to be able to do those things. But that's why
when I show up, I'm like, not most of this
is not about me. This is just about me doing
my part. Sometimes it can become toxic without even knowing it,
and it's like you wake up one day and you're.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
Like, what happened? We were good? Yeah, it started off
so strong. Yeah, like you know, I can see to
go back to the where we started with this. You
have to have leaders that are morally centered, kind, mindful, efficient,

(45:19):
and I mean fill in the business that they're in, right,
because they're any other things if they're going to be
in certain businesses. But when you have that, when you
have that kind of leadership when someone goes awry, right,
if mom and dad or mom and mom or dad
and dad are driving down the road and the kids
are in the back and sisters hitting brother, brothers hitting sister,
then what would happen. You'd pull over the car and

(45:43):
someone would get life right, same same and the rules
of life right. We need the leaders to pull the
fucking car over and be like, hey, stop hitting your brother. Yeah,
I think, yes, I stop hitting your sister. Kind of
love that.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
And I mean there are times where I'm just like, again,
industry wide, it's not like just movies or just to
be or whatever, but there are moments where I'm like, hey.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
Guys, whomever you are, whomever my parents are today, Wizard
of Oz health help, yes, who made that choice?

Speaker 1 (46:20):
Yes you know. And again it's just I think I
think we're.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
Ideally you'd like it to not be hr for real,
for real, but I think we're living in.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
Wild times as it is.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
So as I'm like moving through the industry trying to
do it with as semblance of integrity and whatnot and
are maintain my own sense of humanity, It's like I
look at that stuff and I look at how companies
seem to be run and I try to choose wisely
and to find projects, people companies that feel like we

(46:53):
have the same.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
Ethos, Yes, and that you're matched, right, you're matched in
so far as you can, because I think that, you know,
I do think it's wild to me that actually there's
plenty of people who actually have a terrible reputation but
they continue to be hired. Which that's the part that's
wild to me. But I actually feel very strongly that

(47:15):
it's imperative that you have a good reputation. Like, I
care very much. I don't know what that I don't.
Maybe that makes me sound like a pigmy, but I
don't think I care very much about my reputation. I
care very much what it is, what people's experience is
of working with me, and that it is and that
it is positive. Yeah, I don't. I'm the same.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
And it's not as I would be honest in saying,
like it used to be from a space of.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
Like I have to be liked. If I'm liked, I'll
continue to work, which can feel really trivial ye of authorit.
But it's actually not that I care what.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
People feel and think when they work with me. So
in essence, I do care about my reputation because when
I come, I am always going with the intention of
being a problem solver, of churning in good work. Of
I am of maintaining the reality that I am a

(48:13):
problem solver, not someone who creates problems.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
I'm I'm not the problem.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
Yeah yeah, and might rather be known for excellence. Like
when she shows up, she does excellent work, she's kind,
we have a good time. Energy is not rank Like
why would you want that? I was always taught like,
be the be the energy in the room you want
to work with. So if that's what you really want
to work with, my god, fin, I want to get

(48:42):
you a rieki session.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
Immediately clear your aura.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
I can't Like, that's not for me, it's so true,
it's so true.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
Yeah, well, I think it's you know, I think our
our industry also. I mean, I don't know, maybe if
this is this is this speaks to when or how
I started, But I think that it used to be
very focused on the outside, like how things looked. And
I still think there's that, you know, that that element.
But I think we're entering a time where, in a
very positive way, there's just there's there's there's actual room,

(49:17):
there's actual space, there's actual desire to hire a lot
of different kinds of people. So your looks are different,
and because they're different, we're all just getting used to
the fact that we live in a real world where
we are where we're going to look at things on
screen that look like the world around us instead of
just looking at one kind of thing. And I think

(49:40):
that it's it's so important for the younger people, but
I mean the older people, the younger people in between.
It's important for everyone. But it's it's changing things. Yeah,
it's good. We all have to embrace that change. Yeah,
you know.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
And that's where like the generations have to find that compromise, right,
like the ability to embrace the changes that are necessary
we all agree are necessary, Yeah, and start to.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
Live into the change. It's and I agree with you.

Speaker 2 (50:12):
I think we are saying that, and I think it's
important and it should continue to be, Like it's part
of that change is how I'm even here.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
It's how you met me. Yeah, yeah, you know what
I mean, Like, that's it's it's good.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
I think the fact that we can see that is
indicative of something really positive. It's it's our ability, I think,
in the midst of all the crazy to continue to
embrace the change and be a part of the positive
change instead of letting.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
All that good, good change, Yeah, slip right on back
to what it used to me. Yeah. And the recognition
of humanity and the experience of being human, and the
experience is being very, very different for every single human.
You can't hear yourself the same way. I mean, think
about all the things we've talked about in the past hour,
where it's like everybody's coming with a different perspective, a
set of different set of experiences, a different set of intentions,

(51:07):
so many And it's funny. I remember talking to someone
who he was a young father and he raised his
kid in New York City, and I remember saying like,
oh gosh, I hadn't had kids yet. I was like,
what's it like to raise a kid in New York City?
And it was close. And there's a million things that
are really hard about it. But the thing that I
love the most is that, you know, my kid is
sixteen right now, and you know what word he never says.

(51:28):
And he was like, word and he says, he never
says the weird he never says, that's weird. I love
that because he grew up in New York City. And
when you're in New York City and we don't all
live in New York City, and it's not like it's
the best city in the world except for it is. Yeah,
you get to see it all, and by getting to
see it all, you don't think anything's weird, because there

(51:49):
is nothing that's weird. It's just the experience of being human.
And sometimes it looks like this, and sometimes it looks
like that. Yeah, okay, so we have to talk about

(52:12):
something that looks new, sassy, spicy, special, and it is
your hair, my hair, short hair. I don't care, I care,
why do I carry? Why do I care? I love
this hair. I saw it on the GRAM first. I

(52:33):
was old. Is what I think we'reld I think it's bold.
I like it.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
I no, I love it. I started as short haired girly,
and then over the last four years, like was on
a long haired journey. And I loved that, like I
loved how I felt.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
I felt like, you know, it was my armor. You
couldn't tell me nothing with them inches. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I got home to New York and a day
later I called Ursula Stephens, my fabulous, fabulous hairdresser, was like,
chop it and this is what she did.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
I started immediately feeling the vibration of liberation as she
was cutting my hair off.

Speaker 1 (53:14):
And I love it. I love it.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
And it's funny because I like grow even more into myself.
And there's this part of me that has always been there,
but I realized was kind of buried and that part
of me doesn't have a name quite yet.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
But we're not okay. Please let me know when you
when I get there, I'm gonna shoot you, text you like,
oh my god, uh huh. But I I don't know.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
There's a there's an energy that's living with me right
now that I love and it is this haircut, this
new and vogue do.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
I love the nineties. I love it so much. So
I saw you and one of the first things I
said to you was, I too have had that hairdo.
Yes you did. I'm gonna unearth the picture of it
and I'm gonna text you it. Please do, and I'm
gonna and we're gonna I'm not even gonna I'm not
even gonna tip. I'm not even gonna tell you how
I felt about it. I mean from my voice, you

(54:07):
don't know if I loved it or but I feel
like you've got this good, good job. Well you've got
the best. I'm just I'm just gonna just I'm not
gonna falsely flatter. I'm going to just tell you that
it looks better on you than it did on me.
But we're gonna find the photo. I'm gonna find the photo.
Mine was more inspired by Wilson Phillips. It was a
China Phillips. You know, some day somebody's gonna want by baby.

(54:34):
But no, yeah, a lot of that, a lot of that. Yeah,
we did that. I I will also say that the
fantastic thing about living in this modern age that we
live in is that while it's short and you can
have this incredible energy. Julian Haff said the same thing,
by the way, because I said I I to toy
with this, Bob idea great bob is that you in

(54:56):
the just in with the with this. All you have
to do is in a share for a couple hours
and you can have long hair. Again, correct, It's true.
Like honestly, I love a wig like I do.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
I've worn you wigs for quite a while, Like so great,
so easy.

Speaker 1 (55:11):
Honestly, I could have long hair tomorrow. You could have
a tomorrow, and it's so easy. And most people think
that it's they don't understand the magic of it. And
I was actually telling the girls. I honestly, I almost
made one of them cry by telling them that I
did not think that Sabrina Carpenter's hair was probably all hers.
She wanted to die. She was, what are you talking about?
I said, well, she probably keeps the front out and
she was like, what is this language you're speaking? Why

(55:32):
are you trying to tell me that Sabrine's hair is
not hair, it's Sabraine's hair.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
But you know that's the thing though, you again, popstars
are real people too, and they have to protect their hair. Yes,
Like that's a lot of like doing goes you know
what I mean?

Speaker 1 (55:51):
Stage light? Yeah, if I was them, i'd probably be
wearing a wig too. Yeah, so I think it's I
definitely would. I'd have a room full of them, like
I don't flash your share? Does? Yes? That makes sense
to me, right, Yes, makes so much sense. Yeah, and
you just keep Yeah, you pull out the front because
I do think that the hairline does give it away. Yeah,

(56:12):
I don't. I'm not. I'm not a lace front fan
if I'm honest.

Speaker 2 (56:16):
Yeah, it looks so, yeah it can nine times out
of ten I can see it.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
Yeah, yeah, of course you can't.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
And I'm very picky about the wigs I wear in film. Yeah,
on camera, because ah.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
I cannot bad wig well, because listen, a bad anything,
a bad wig, a bad prosthetic, it just takes you
out of it, girl, don't it. Yeah, that's why the
unsung heroes man all those people I'm telling HMU like, oh,
not only do they make you look like that, but
they also give you all the best gossip.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
They do give you the best cause of their Yeah,
I love I love a hair and makeup trailer.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
I really do. It's the best. But then but then again, you.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
Gotta be like it's gonna be okay, guy, every thanks good.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Yeah yeah, yeah, no, don't worry. I do that. I
would do that, okay. And also I'm also much more
like I definitely always make sure that I'm like I'm
an incoming receiver of the information. Yeah, it doesn't go anywhere.
I don't. Ever, I'm good at keeping that that that
that line. Yeah, you also like, I'm I like to
partake in We were talking about this the other day
on the show. I like to partake in community building, gossip,

(57:20):
like the things that tie us together. Yeah, did you.
I'm not a nasty gossiper. No, I don't pass on
bad information. But I've been known to come to go
up to people who I don't know because someone else
said something great about them and be like, you don't
know me at all, but this person says that amazing
thing about you. Yes, I.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
Love you.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
Here you are.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
I've also done that. I'm pretty sure people look at
me like I'm insane. But it's a good insane. It's
a good insane, and you're spreading.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
Your power is good. Spread joy kindness. It's free, exactly. Yeah.
And it's a renewable source resource. It's a renewable resource.
I like that. You should put that on a T shirt.
There you go, kindness. It's like, call it renewable resource
of kindness. That's good. I want you to know that
my experience of being with you for the past hour

(58:09):
has been very good. I have very much enjoyed this.
I will repeat your reputation is in town. I will
further your good reputation. Thank you and I yours, as
will all the people, no doubt that have listened to this,
and thank you, Thank you very much for being here
with me. I look forward to every single time I
get to see your bright, shining eyes, and you are

(58:31):
just one of the greatest gifts to UH, to our
industry and being able to watch you. But thank you
for being here. And I love you. I love you.
Thank you for having me. You're so cool, You're so cool.
My friend is amazing. Oh I love my friend. Oh
you heard your first All right, Well that's what we
call the end of the episode.