November 18, 2024 • 47 mins
"Scandal" star Dan Bucatinsky sits down with Jess & Camilla to talk about "drinking the Kool-Aid" in their careers. They also have an honest discussion about Elisabeth Finch as Dan shares a terrifying real life extortion experience that also involved his husband.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Call It what It Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camil Luddington,
an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello Call.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
It crew, and welcome to another episode. This one's got
a little holiday, a little holiday feel into it.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
A little holiday shimmy, a little shimmy shake Yeah, a
little sparkle sparkle le tie joy.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Who do we have on to talk about? One of
my favorite things? You guys, I'm addicted. You probably already
noticed to holiday movies, and we're gonna be talking about
one today.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
We're gonna be talking about holiday movies. We're gonna be
talking about all of our favorite Grey's Anatomy episodes and
how Gray's Anatomy has done what it does so well
for so long with an actor. First he was an
actor on the show, and then he ended up becoming
a writer and simultaneously became a fan favorite, also as
(01:04):
an actor on a little show called Scandal. Yeah, I
am so excited to bring on Dan Bukatinski. Yes, I am.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Hi. Hello, it's been too long.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
It's been too long.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
We're talking about Grayson Aatama.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
You guys, everyone, Dan was a writer and you acted
on the show too.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
You're on our show I.
Speaker 5 (01:25):
Acted on the show before your character.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
I acted on the show season seven, no season six,
I can't remember.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
I came season five, so maybe right after that.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
I did an episode, and then two years later I
joined the writing staff part time while I was acting
on Scandal.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Okay, and I just feel like we need to just
give this due respect. So we're talking to Dan Bukatinsky, who, honestly,
I think I just knew of you because you are
one of the people that I would describe as multifaceted,
multi connected, and ubiquitous. It's sort of like Dan's everywhere,
Like of course he is. He's of course, he's next
to you in line, you know, grabbing a juice. Of course,
(02:07):
he's on set with you and now a writer. Of course,
he's at the fabulous party with his husband, having a
fabulous time with their beautiful children.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Like you just were everywhere.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
So then when you came to the show and then
we're acting, and then we were so excited to have
you around. But then you got to become an actor
a writer, I was like, I didn't even know that
you also wrote, So now you're writing and acting, and
I would just be so excited when you came to
set because we don't always get the writers on set
because you guys have to go to your room and
make the magic. But you were always, i think, an
(02:38):
acter favorite for set visits and being on set patrol.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I feel like that's why they sent Dan out.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yeah, because you wanted to Yeah, because you wanted to
do with you. Yeah, spilling the tea, coming up with
all our ideas and thoughts about all the shenanigans that
were happening in the world.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Yeah. Yeah, the lost of shenanigans, both on set and off.
But I also loved Look, I'm an actor first, writer second,
but I've been writing for twenty five years, and the
opportunity to be on set and produce episodes either that
I was part of writing or that were other writers' stuff,
(03:15):
but to connect with the actors talk about the work,
but also gossip about everything else.
Speaker 5 (03:21):
Yes, you know, we all have mutual friends. Camilla.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
I think I think I was there at the season
that introduced your character.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
You were, Yes, you.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Were definitely there that season, so I just knew you.
Was like, yes, you were there, That's what I'm saying.
Good Jazz like for me, you were og like you
were one well We were one of the original writers.
You were there and then they stole you.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Scandal stilly scandal stall.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Well, but I'm telling you writing on Gray's Anatomy for
hyper kondriac was such a bad idea. You know that
every morning is and that this is not that you asked.
But I'll just tell you very quickly. We were a
writer on Gray's Anatomy. Every morning, six in the morning,
you were at least back then, you would receive an
email called the Morning Medical. And the Morning Medical was
like the researchers would find some incredible, real story of
(04:11):
something that happened to someone for real somewhere you.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Know you hadn't even yet imagined could happen, and put
on your worry list yet.
Speaker 5 (04:20):
No, and I had little thing.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
You just had to add it.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
And so many of you were pediatric are you.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
I don't remember what your specialties are as the doctors
that you are on the show, but so many were
pediatric surgeons, so so many of the stories were pediatric
in nature. So all I would do is wake up
in a fit of anxiety, like, oh my god, now
I have that to worry about.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yeah, yeah, that was That was pretty much me. You
can blame me for that. That was me back in
the day in Pedes and I it had the opposite
effect for me when the stories would come up because
I knew they were because because by the time they
got to us they were fiction, I could just say,
this is made up.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
I didn't know you.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I would just ignore the fact that it had come
from a real story, and I was right, this is
fake blood, and this is a fa this is an
actor playing a sick child, and so this is.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
All make believe. I recently, like last year, I think
I did two episodes of Chicago med as you know,
as somebody coming in through the er covered in blood,
and I was just it was such an acid flashback
to being on set of Grays and knowing how the
donuts are made, but then from a completely different point
(05:29):
of view. It was very interesting.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Is there an episode that comes top of mind for
you that you loved so much being a part.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
Of on Grays?
Speaker 5 (05:37):
Yeah, there are a bunch. I mean, there's one that
I was involved in.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
My favorite that includes me.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Oh my god, it doesn't Dan, it doesn't have to
include Jess.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
There were so many twenty fourth season times, the two
fifty episodes that I.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Was trying to help him narrow it down. Camilla, I know,
so if she just thought of me, if you focused
on looking at my face, damp.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
Listen, you know I love you and you know where
you were one of my favorites. Both of you were.
I mean, Camilla, I was just meeting for the first
time and you were like deer in headlights the whole
first the whole first season, you were sort of like, Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
It was a lot.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
It's a lot that that set is is not you know,
it didn't like her huge, Yeah, Jessica didn't like me.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
It was a huge ensemble.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
And you guys were so well established. It was an
intimidating and to be the new intern class and our
and our our fandom have very strong feelings about new
people on our show, you got to really win them over.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
You have to earn their trust.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
You knew who intimidated me the most was working with Chandra.
And Sandra Chandra did not ever intimidate me. She was
so yummy to me.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Well she is.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
She's the nicest and the yummiest, but she's so good.
Oh and like so she would say her lines and
I wouldn't even know she was acting yet like i'd, oh,
we're starting, Like she's that good. I think I was
just intimid by by yeah, just yeah, she's just And
also she you know, as I've said this before, but
you know, Schandra knows everything. She knows she knows her lines,
(07:09):
she knows your lines, she knows where the props should be,
she knows the orientation of the story where you are
in it, and so she just I was intimidated by
the fact that she knew it all. And Sandra, oh,
kind of the same way. Like Sandra's such a deep
she analyzes each script and she's got it all. Like
I mean, looking at her script was like a piece
of art and also like a journal, like it was
(07:30):
so deeply like personal, and she just is the hardest worker.
And I so, I mean, I mean intimidated or inspired,
I guess, I guess.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Both Sandra and I were in a movie together ten
years earlier called Under the Tuscan Son. We had no
scenes together in the movie, but we became best friends.
So then I was writing on Grays and we had
a shorthand. But her script was like dog hair, yeah
on every other page, with like thoughts, and it was
intimidating like as a writer even just to be like,
(08:01):
all right that you're asking really good questions and we
need to answer them.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah, yeah, she really am.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
I think it helped me to be coming from both
points of view. I mean, I didn't love you know
how I wound up on a medical show given my
feelings about medicine in general. It was just crazy. And
then I wound up writing the most ridiculous episode based
on a true story about a magician who sawed his
assistant in half as part of the show, but actually
(08:30):
sawed her in half.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
We're either of you in that episode.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, I was there. I don't know what I was doing.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
I didn't deal with that medical if I would.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
The medical medical medical.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Are you telling me that you did Scandal before you
came to Grace.
Speaker 5 (08:44):
No, No, it was simultaneous.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
What happened. I did the first season of Scandal three episodes,
and I took a meeting with Betsy and Shanda and
Joan and Tony, the showrunners at the time, and they
were like, we want you to write on the writing staff,
and I was like, I'm excited about that, but if
there's any chance that this character is going to come
back on Scandal, I certainly don't want to shoot myself
in the foot, Yeah, and take this job and not
(09:10):
be able to do that, and she can.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
I guess what came next. You became like a fan
favorite on Scandal. Isn't that what happened next?
Speaker 4 (09:17):
No, what happened next is Sean has said, we know
where to find you if you're at Gray, so I'll
know where to find you.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
That's literally what she said.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Oh so she just occupied you don't worry about it.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
If you're going to consult on I was consulting anyway.
It was like, technically a consultant is like three days
a week, but you can work as many days. You know,
you work half days or full days or five days,
and then you miss two days the next week. If
you're going to be consulting on Gray's, we'll know where
to find you. And season two they used me again.
And season two is when the show really exploded. The
(09:48):
audience really connected to it, the whole live tweet movement
at the beginning of season two, which got people to
watch appointment TV Thursday nights for and I remember the
fall of that year of season two, something had changed.
I would be walking in New York and I felt
(10:08):
a visceral change that had I could not have predicted.
It was just like people were watching the show, and
people really responded to this kind of normal guy who
this monster Jeff Perry's character was married to. So I
did both, and I just I bounced back and forth
all the time, and my character would get two scenes
(10:30):
in an episode and I'd shoot them out and then
I'd be at grace the rest of the time.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
That's so you were, do you remember.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I remember the.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Tgit happening right where the line up was all Shonda,
and that is just that whole thing explode.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I mean that exploded.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
It did.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
It took on a life of its own.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
And Scott Foley had been on our show, and he
was on that show. And I knew Carrie from like
early days, meeting her when we were all starting out,
and I just knew her to be such a kind
and wonderful person. And then and I remember when you
guys started doing the live tweeting because we weren't doing it,
and we were like and then and then I had
to and you could see what was happening, and and
(11:11):
then I also remember, I remember and I'm sure that
I attacked you with questions because I like, what is
going on over there? Because the skin everyone in the
scandal cast was like they were the happiest, most hard
working family, just family, and and it was so it
(11:31):
was I mean believing me. There was a moment where
I was like, this can't be true. This is too much,
is too much. I can't handle this, this is too
much nice, too much. I just love my job. I
just love my job so much. I love working twenty
four hours a day. But it was actually true. And
I remember asking and like really really like putting people's
feet to the fire, like ones that I had real relationships.
I'd like pick them off from the pack and be like,
so really tell me what's up, Like you don't really
(11:53):
like them that much, right, And they'd all be like,
I love them, I love them, And I was like, okay, great.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
This is amazing.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Was weird. It was weird. It was a it was
a kind of kool aid. I mean, I don't really understand.
I credit I always say this, I credit carry with
it because you really do. It does start there, always, yeah,
and then how that trickles down and the culture that
starts to form, and everybody was really grateful for their
(12:22):
jobs and the writing. The writing was really good and
the scenes that we got to do, and everybody was
very very close, even people who you know, Josh Molina
was a total prankster and he would come to set
like armed to create problems in a joking way, and
even he got and he's really cynical, and even he
(12:42):
got sucked into the cult of Yeah, and we're all
still very close.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
I know.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
I was want to say, you can tell it's real
because years later you're not having to do a pressed
war together and like bullshit, it like you guys really
do still love each other. I mean, I saw Carrie's
picture for Halloween and she's like she did the challenges
for Halloween with the boys. It's so like it's you
guys are still so close.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
We're very very close. And I'm close to people who
I never had a scene with in thirty episodes like
I did. I did thirty episodes of Scandal and not
one time was ion screen with Katie Lowe's and he
was one of my closest friends.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
She's great, she's great, she's great. Well you, I mean,
you all got very lucky because for different reasons, when
we would do crossovers, or we would do press, or
(13:40):
we would do like the big photo shoots or whatever.
I mean again, it just every single person in your
cast was so welcoming, so kind. I remember the very
very the most. The strongest note that I felt being
around you all was that everyone seemed so grateful and
everyone was a grown up, right, Like everybody had been
on others shows, done to the things, and then they'd
(14:02):
come to this show like knowing who they were and
being really grateful for their job, knowing what it takes
to make a show a hit, which is no small feat.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
You hit it on the head. I mean, that's one
hundred percent what it is. I was in my forties
when I got that gig, and I had been in
LA for twenty years trying to have that kind of
like trying to get a break like that. I was
just a guest star, by the way, for all twenty
nine episodes, but I was so grateful for getting to
do that material. Jeff Perry had been on Grey's Anatomy
(14:32):
and he had been on series before, but was really
grateful to get to dive into that kind of material.
Everybody was a grown up and Grays forty seven years
ago when it started, you know, they were everybody. Everybody
as you know, and even Familie when you started, like
the whole premise of the show were interns. It's like,
(14:54):
you're getting people in their twenties, and how how a
twenty seven year old is going to react to their
first big series regular role as opposed to a thirty
seven year old those supposed.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
To a forty seven year old. Is it's just different.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
And you know there's been so much turnover, but what
do you credit the longevity of Grays too? Not that
I'm allowed to ask any questions, but I do want
you know.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
This is an equal opportunity streaming.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
I think, you know streaming really I came on it
in season nine, right, and I think it just is
one of those shows that exploded and hit the other
generations a couple I want to say, around season eleven
or twelve was when I started to notice like, oh,
it's really it's really getting in fact, our numbers came
in today and we're in the top ten of streaming. Still,
(15:40):
I think it's just hitting new generations.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
You're right, Hitting a new generation is the key, because
after ten seasons, suddenly the nine year olds who are
now nineteen who want to binge Gray's Anatomy are your
new fans.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
For the next twenty years exactly. It will live on forever.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Well, so that's sort of more the business part of it.
But I will that the magic of Grey's Anatomy is
is is. I was a fan first because I wasn't
on it, but I appointment television did. I watched it
on Sunday when it first came out on Sunday nights,
and then I got to be on it, and now
I am not on it, but I watch it from afar,
(16:18):
and I think that the magic has always been this
incredible circumstance of a world that has implicit incredibly high
stakes because it's life or death every day, right, and
then these wonderful actors, these grounded, real, like incredible casting
by the way, speaking back, I mean when you say, Jeff,
(16:38):
I can't not think of Linda. So it's like the
casting was always so phenomenal, these very grounded, very real actors.
And then these high arching, crazy stories that were like
again the Shondaland roller coaster, right, the kind of storylines
that you see on soap operas, just like I mean,
unbelievable like, no way it be her twin sister. But
(17:02):
you're talking about sawing someone in half. That's a real story.
We get to play with it.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Right, except what you're saying is totally true the balancing
act of some crazy medical story that like where you're
going to watch this group of people that you're already
invested in, like replace the heart of this person and
the hearts I mean, I used to love the episodes
where the helicopter would land and somebody would hand the
(17:27):
cooler with the organ and you'd run down the stairs
and you'd be in the elevator with the organ of
somebody who had to have that organ within the next
eight seconds. And yet you're in the elevator with your
ex boyfriend and so suddenly that elevator ride, despite the
medical tension and stakes.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
And music playing that you can't hear.
Speaker 5 (17:47):
How can you didn't call me back last night?
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Like the really e Merging that level of intimate, romantic
personal drama with real high stakes life or death drama
is just genius.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Yeah, and we always have a new intern glass that
turnover is like it just it's fresh for new stories
and new love.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Interesting. Yeah, it's just it just works.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
My secret dream as an actor and has been for
Maybe it started around Grays. I want to wear a
lab coat on a show so badly. I so badly
wanted to be a visiting doctor who then comes back
on Grays And of course, like my episode, I was
the spouse of somebody in the hospital bed. I was like,
how's that guy ever going to wind up? I was like,
wait a minute, maybe he goes off to college, gets
(18:33):
his medical degree, and he comes back in three years
and he's a doctor. But then I was on Scandal
and got murdered horribly and there was no way that
I was going to wind up in that world ever again.
But it's there's something about playing somebody who can who
can get to do the duality of a love story
and the high stakes of life saving that's kind of aspirational.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
We I don't know why you have decided that you
couldn't come back on.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Our show because I played a character and like the
super fans are going to be like, that's the husband of.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
The option, the husband left and when God, his isn't
the hole like in the world like you can't lay
I mean, no, this can't be the rule, because we
have meritiths you know, like we have people on both shows.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
If you're listening, Dan needs the lab coat.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Dan wants to come in as a visiting dermatologist or
visiting surgeon in the areas of.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yeah, pitch it now, Dan there, I'm all for it.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Would I would love it with all my heart, especially
to get to see you guys again.
Speaker 5 (19:35):
Wait, just are you am?
Speaker 1 (19:37):
I I'm not on it anymore, but were you?
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Just? Weren't you? Just? Sorry?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yes, I went yes, I mean, listen, it's always going
to be I will always go back. Yes, I went
back last year.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
Okay, I thought so, and it was so much fun.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
It was so much fun. And also I got to
like rewrite my departure. I got to go back and
have a wonderful time. And not that I love that, Yeah,
I love that.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
And you know, it's just I have such relationships like
Kim Raver and I have been friends because I was
a writing producer on a show called Lipstick Jungle that
she was on on NBC in two thousand and eight, right,
two thousand and eight, so four years.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Has also been everywhere. Kim's been on so.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
Many everywhere, Yes, Kim's been everywhere.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
I want to talk about I want to talk about
this holiday movie that you've done. Okay, because well, first
of all, I have eyeballs and ears, and so I've
experienced like Lindsay Lohan, and I watched every single moment
like her, all of all of her things. So she's
in it. And then also Kristin Chenowith, who's just nice sister.
Did you get to work with her?
Speaker 4 (20:38):
Talk about suspension of disbelief. I play Christian's husband, and
we don't have a great marriage. I'll just spoiler alert,
but this is like a fun Christmas rom com that's
got a little bit of meat. The Fokker's in it
because it's all about this family Christmas reunion where the
(21:00):
parents played by me and Kristin chenow With have our
children grown children, come home with their boyfriend and girlfriend
and it just so happens that their boyfriend and girlfriend
used to date and have the history. And that's Ian
Harding and Lindsay Lohan. So the show is really about
I didn't know this term until recently.
Speaker 5 (21:20):
You know, meet cute, right. We used to write them asatomy.
Speaker 4 (21:23):
This is a meat ugly apparently when two people, when
two people have a history and they hate each other,
and they were like, I never wanted to see you again,
and they meet in a rom com it's called a
meat ugly.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
I've never heard that term.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Well, it looks like from the trailer that Kristin plays
sort of a yeah, like a little she's a little grumpy,
a little thorny, a little what does she She's got
some rough edges.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
She is not the nicest she she's not the nicest
most welcoming to Lindsay Lohan. And a lot of the
movie's tension has to do with Lindsay trying to stay
in her good graces. That's a big premise of the movie.
And as my wife, she definitely puts me in my place.
(22:07):
You know, Listen, I bounce around in the movie. I
appear here and there, and then I have this incredible
scene with a huge secret of my own, which is
not how which you think it is. It's not what
it's not even what I thought it was going to
be when they it's a bigger secret than that. But
but it's a very fun movie where everyone in it
sort of is hanging on to something that you find
(22:28):
out by the end.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Well, I cannot wait to watch it.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Well, this is wait. We have to say the name
of it.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
You don't even say the name of it.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Secret, Yes, secret on Netflix. I'm a sucker for Christmas movies. Dan,
I're still gonna tell you.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
And Lindsay Low.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
We do have to talk about Lindsay for a second.
She's having this renaissance. Yes, she looks incredible. I fully,
I was always a fan of Lindsay. I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
I feel like she's really back.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
She's doing amazing work. She looks incredible. She's always been
super talented her. I watched another Christmas movie of hers
last year.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
I like her voice. It's always like been kind of
like that gravelly like.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Yeah, gravelly like smoky yea.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
I wish I was cool like that.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
I love it so much.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Jessica, you were in on Netflix Christmas movie Holiday with Kristen.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
I was, and she was fantastic, so funny. She played
my aunt Susan. She is such a hoot and holler.
And she's coming on the show too. And she cracks
me up because we became dear friends. And then when
you're friends with Kristin Jenna with what ends up happening
is she does not text as much as she sends
(23:41):
me videos She sends me videos from all kinds of places.
Some places you would not you would not think someone
would send you a video from them, but she will
send you a video from them.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yeah, exactly. And she and she's always like, you're you're
my sister, and we need, honey, we need to do
a movie. Be together. We're gonna find something. That's how
she talks to me, I know. And she'll tell me
all about her day in detailed slab.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
I get videos when when she's gone to sleep, she's
gone to sleep and the lights are out and it's
completely dark, and all I see are just like just
the hints of two little eyes. Hi husband. Yeah, I'm
so tired because she works. She works like nobody. But
we got very close. She's got the biggest heart of
(24:28):
anybody on the planet, and we had a great time.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
We ad lived like crazy.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
We really tried to feel what this completely dysfunctional marriage
would really be like. And so there's little hints of
that throughout the movie. We had a great time. Tim
Meadows is in the movie as well. This hilarious John
Rodnitski is in the movie. Has my son and it's
it's really fun and Lindsay, I have to tell you
I also a huge, huge fan when you see the
(24:55):
work she did as a kid. Oh, I know, in
the movie Trap.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
I just watched it with Hayden.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
I watch it. I think I've seen it five times.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
I have two. But she's so talented, she's so innately talented,
and so you know, now she's got a kid of
her own, and she's really settled down, and it's really funny,
and she was a delight.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
And you know what I mean just naming it, talk
about being a grown up. She's been through it, you know,
And I don't. I don't know because I haven't been
following the press that she's done. I don't know if
she's speaking to it. But I remember the like the
meltdown days when just things. I mean, she had such
a huge level of fame and attention on her and
(25:38):
she was just trying to live her life. And life
can be real messy sometimes, and when.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
We see our twenties, eighteen to twenty eight is not
an easy decade. It's just not imagine the amount of
scrutiny and having to answer to it and having it
all played out publicly.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
It's just not no, and you're usually not peaking then, like,
that's not when we're not that's not when we're peaking.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Now, those are when you're in the trenches. You want
to be able to make mistakes. You just need it,
not on the cover of People magazine.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
That's exactly right. You want to be able to make
your mistakes and not. This is one of the reasons
I started this thing on Instagram. If you follow me
on Instagram, I do this thing called Failure Fridays, which
is all about this idea that you know, social media,
since it's the beginning, has become the place for the
humble brag, where you scroll all day long to see
(26:27):
people with bodies better than yours, and cappuccinos that look
better than yours, and the bread that's been baked better
than yours, and awards and dresses and red carpets, and
it's also fabulous, and it's easy to compare and despair.
But the truth is, if we were to use social
media a little bit more, all of us as a universe,
to also share in our setbacks, our humiliations, our embarrassments,
(26:48):
and our failures, we would realize that the path to
success is paved with failures and embarrassments and setbacks. And
so I started this thing failure Friday, where I encourage
peopeople to comment tell their story post hashtag failure Friday.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
I have so many I'm so aware I start.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
That is part of the problem.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
Part of the problem is like, oh god, where I
have my parenting fails, my relationship fails, my professional fails.
But the truth is all of them are also surrounded
by these moments of triumph. And we don't all only
triumph and we don't all only fail. It's just we
can't define ourselves wholly by one success or one failure.
And so anyway, I'm encouraging people to embrace their setbacks
(27:33):
and then the comeback is so much more lovely. Like
I think there's so much goodwill towards towards Lindsay, maybe
because her setbacks were all so public.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
I also think that if you're if you're if you're
really paying attention and you're failing and you're succeeding and
you're honest with yourself and you're naming it, you have
a far better relationship with the success and with the failure.
So you you you can have the median be really
(28:18):
nice and static. Okay, like you're always going to go
back to Okay, you're gonna you're gonna get really high
and you're gonna go really low. By the way, if
you're not making mistakes, you're not trying, right, So you
got to try and sometimes it'll work and sometimes it won't.
I mean, it's interesting. I don't know why, but to
this morning, I was talking to a friend about that
(28:38):
experiment they did with the with the Olympians, the study
with the the those who win gold, silver, and bronze,
and I don't know if you've seen it, but the
greatest incidences of depression and suicide come from the silvers
because they didn't they were they were just shy of
being funds.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
I've written pilots that have been so personal to me
and have been like I put my blood, sweat and
tears in them, and when they don't move forward, I'm like,
oh my god, I'm never gonna what's the point, what's
the point?
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Oh my gosh. And the sadness, I mean, I literally
go boneless on the floor. I had what happened maybe
a year and a half ago, and it's the trailers
are playing now and Camilla, how many times have I
sent you like screenshots of like, Okay, I'm just gonna
feel I'm gonna feel my feelings right now between me
and the girl who got it. I'm real happy for her,
but I'm all sad for me and all the things, right,
(29:33):
And that's the thing. Also, it's like you want to
recognize that you you were competitive, you.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Just didn't get it. You just didn't get it, because
there's sometimes if you're like, well, I'm I lost, therefore
I'm a loser. Therefore I'm not going to do this again.
I'm not doing this again, Like you definitely won't get
another opportunity if you don't do it again.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Yeah, right, Like you're dancing too, because I like this failure.
Fridays is when you're scrolling right now, your own people
are only posting the gold medal moments, right, and it's
actually getting kind of boring.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Like in movies, you're rooting.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
For Rocky, right, Like Rocky isn't isn't like at the
top of his game, He's is How boring is that
story you're rooting for? Like the growth of being a
rock bottom and working your way up. I think it's
so cool to I like the failure Fridays. I think
that Jess and I have gotten. One of the things
we've enjoyed about podcasting actually and doing this is that
(30:26):
we've ended up sharing so much of our shit. Yeah,
and it's been really therapeutic.
Speaker 5 (30:33):
But listen, what you're doing.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
You're creating something that's a conversation that allows for that
to be part of it, so something successful can come
out of the conversation around something.
Speaker 5 (30:44):
Not so successful. It was very hard for me to do.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
I'll be honest with you, Like many actors and certainly
at my age, I'm very reluctant to let people think
that I'm flawed. I mean, obviously we all are. What
I'm saying, Like, I don't want people to see I
wear spanks twenty four seven, Like I don't want to
let my spanks out and let people see. And I had.
I did one failure Friday where I was like challenging
(31:07):
myself to do five pull ups and I didn't make it,
and I showed it on camera, and it's really sad
and hilarious but really pathetic. But you know what, it's
only motivating me to try to just get stronger and
eventually I'll be.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
Able to pull up up it.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
I can do some I can do. I can do
underhand hin ups, a lot of them, but the overhands hard.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Are you kidding? It's very hard? But you could start
them with the little assist thing, the little rubber bands.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
If you get them that, you know what I gotta
I gotta start doing that.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Because, by the way, there's another lesson. Sometimes you just need.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
Help, yes, yes, advocate.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Sometimes you can do the thing. You just need some help.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
The thing.
Speaker 5 (31:49):
You just need to ask for help.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
And it's not embarrassing to ask for help. It's not gosh, no,
my gosh.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
I asked for help all the time my mother. I
don't know how this is possible going. I actually don't
have it on films, so I might need to have
it on film. My mother can do a five minute plank?
Speaker 4 (32:06):
What what?
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (32:08):
No assist?
Speaker 1 (32:10):
No assist. Evidently no assist.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
Oh that's incredible. Yeah, he course eel.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
I've gone back to the gym in the past, I
probably about two and a half months ago, with like
real regularity. I'm holding myself accountable, and my goal is
I want to do a five minute plank. And I'm
just going to tell you right now, I haven't been
out for the past two and a half months, and
I'm I'm only a minute and a half.
Speaker 5 (32:32):
Yeah, but a minute and a half.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
You only have three and a half to go, exactly.
Speaker 5 (32:36):
You started with five to go three and a half.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
And it's been like, it's been humbling, it's been all
the things we're talking about. And obviously it's a silly example,
but it's just, you know, the things that make you
stronger but also remind you that you have room to
grow and and a weakness that needs to be developed,
and also inspiration and you have help and all the things.
I love talking you.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
I miss having you, and I like to tell your.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Mom that I say hello. I'm not going to get
into it, but your mother was incredibly incredibly helpful to me.
I don't I don't you know what. I can't talk
about it because I don't want to get choked.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Up, but you'll start crying.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
We had we had a particularly rough period with our
You know, I'm the parents of teenagers now. They don't
tell you what to expect when when you're expecting, is
that eventually those babies are going to become teenagers. Don't
listen to this.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Oh God, I know I'm listening so intently.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Dan, I'm like, tell me.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Do we had some challenges in the teenage years and
and and you know, I've got we're two dads and
navigating our daughter through those things. And your mom was
incredibly helpful to me. So please just tell her I
say hello, and I hold that very close to my heart.
We love to talk about the unspeakable, which is.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Oh, we've talked about it. I know where you're going.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
Anatomy of a lie.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Yeah, oh gosh, yes we can. We can out to just.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
Tell you something I'm coming to you with. Like when
I met my husband thirty years ago. He was taking
care of a woman who was dying of cancer, who
had lost all of her hair, and five of us
came around, six of us galvanized around her for an
entire year and took her to chemo and bought her
everything and paid her rent and bathed her and I
(34:22):
mean horrible things that we did.
Speaker 5 (34:23):
And it was all a lie. Good night, everybody.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
It was all I There's more than one person who
would do that one.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
This is my point, is I met I met you
know obviously, when I came back to the writer. When
I came back to the writer's room of Grace to
visit all my buddies in the year that I she
started on Grays the year after I left, maybe even.
Speaker 5 (34:46):
My slot went to her.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
And then I went into that right into that writer's
room to say hi to Tia and the whole gang.
And I met her and she was wearing a scarf
on her head, and she obviously had lost had lost
her hair, and she really she did a number. And
I was riveted by that documentary. Obviously I have a
connection you met her.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
Was there any part of you that was like, she's
a little she's a little odd.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
No, well, yes, yeah, she was a little odd.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
But never did you ever not believe? Did you?
Speaker 1 (35:15):
I mean, that's what I was saying when we talked
about it. I said, there was never a moment where
I would have thought to say, it's.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
A perfect crime. People asked us that all the time,
like how did you guys all fall for it? I'm like,
fall for it? When will you ever when someone tells
you that they have been diagnosed with cancer, would you
ever say to them prove it? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (35:32):
I was a person if you make someone if you
say that to someone.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Dan, did you find out did you find out the
news that it was not true from the article or
because of whispers.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
I'm very good friends with Christa and a lot of
the gang, the Old og Original Gray's Anatomy folk, so
I think I heard it from them first, but it
was it was around the time that the article was
bubbling up, so I didn't hear it early. I heard
it around the same time.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
And you watched the documentary, and.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
I watched the documentary, and you.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Watch all three parts.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
I sure did, and I have to tell you, I'm
it's so it's so much more disturbing than what we
experienced because it goes so far beyond that the illness,
like lying about the illness is like a fraction of
what the larger story is. And it's extremely upsetting. Yeah,
I and I and I to you, who had a
(36:32):
very strong relationship, And I can only imagine, and I
just know what. All I know is I can imagine
because I experienced it also with somebody else.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
That's insane that there's somebody else I did. We have
talked about this a little on the pop before, but
I said to Jess, it felt I went into the
first episode.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Not knowing what it was like. It came out and
I was like, nobody had talked.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
To me about it, and I was like with my husband,
I just watch the first one and it was like
watching myself in a dateline episode. I had no idea
how much I would be in it, and it was
so jarring that I have not watched beyond. But it
is interesting always to talk to other people. It's you know,
(37:17):
it's not many of us that have were part of
this insane story.
Speaker 5 (37:22):
I have compassion for those with mental illness.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
This particular one takes down so many people that I
have a very hard time like drumming up the compassion
only because I experienced it and I feel like nine
months of my life my compassion for another individual was
was squandered. But that said, much like Munchausen, where you
are making yourself sick, actually making yourself sick in order
(37:48):
to get cared for, the lying about events in your life,
the lying about drama and or illness.
Speaker 5 (37:55):
In order to bring people towards.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
You, is a phenomenon that is far more common and
what we think, and it's very upsetting.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
You're talking and I was just reminded of something that
I can't believe. I didn't talk about when we were
talking about liars maybe, I don't know. Six or seven
years ago, Christopher got a message through some platform when
he was honest about a young woman who was dealing
with a disease that was going to that she was
(38:39):
going to die, she was going to die soon, and
her favorite show was Graise and she just wanted to
talk to me, and so we got her number and
I called her and I was on the phone with
her for about forty five minutes because it wasn't just illness,
but there had also been there had been abuse, and
there had been and forty five minutes of listening to
her and listening to her, and then we went to
(39:01):
get off the phone, and she was saying that she
was meant to die any day like this was she
was in hospice and it was happening, and she said,
you know, if i'm here tomorrow, would you be able
to talk to me one more time? And I said absolutely.
So the next day I get messaged I'm still here,
can you talk? I call her, We talk, and I
(39:21):
don't know what it was. At minute thirty two that
just was like something, there's just something off, like I
didn't know what it was, but it's just something that
was off. And I ended it just like I had
the day before, like I'm sending so much love and
I'm so glad that I was able to be here
for you. And I hung up and I called the
(39:42):
person that in my life helps check on these kinds
of things, and I said, I just have a feeling
that this something's not right. I'm going to give you
the phone number, and I'm going to give you all
the documentation of how this came to me and everything else.
Full blown lie now.
Speaker 5 (39:57):
But guess what she got to talk to jess A Capshaw.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Yeah, so bonkers, Dan, How did you find out that
you're the person you were taking care of?
Speaker 1 (40:08):
How did you find out that that was not true?
Speaker 4 (40:11):
Not to plug something again, but I'm gonna plug something. Yeah.
My book Does This Baby Make Me Look Straight? Is
a story of how Don and I became parents. But
chapter two, if you just listen to one chapter in
the whole audiobook, chapter two, it tells you, tells you No,
I'm not telling you to do that, because I'm going
to tell you right now. But the chapter two tells
the entire story of how I met my husband and
(40:33):
the circumstances of meeting this person and how we to,
you know, and how it all played out. But in
a nutshell, it's one of those things where as I
was saying before, you never really want to check, because
what kind of person would you be? The very things
that don't feel right to you, you just swallow and
(40:53):
you think, I guess this is what it's like to
be with someone who has very little time left and
as annoying as there be. And I mean, there were
elements of this woman's life that were like, she's asking
so much.
Speaker 5 (41:06):
There's not one moment where.
Speaker 4 (41:07):
She's ever like, guys, you go out, go to the movies,
don't worry about me, Just have a good night out.
I'll be fine. I'll see you tomorrow. Like it was
never that, which I don't know, knock on wood, I've
never had.
Speaker 5 (41:19):
An illness like that.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
But I know that I'm I know that I would
want those around me who were spending time caring for me,
who also I would love them enough. So there was
an element about her that just bugged everybody. So six
of us went to go see Manhattan Murder Mystery, which
is all about people like it's like only merged in
the building. Really the inspiration behind it, But it's all
(41:43):
about this couple who live next door and they sort
of uncover a mystery domestically in their own home. They're
not detectives. And we went to a restaurant afterwards, and
I don't know how it happened, but we started talking
and comparing notes about our this person's nurse that all
of us have clearly met, and they're like, no, no, I
(42:05):
never met her nurse. Well, you're paying her. How did
you pay Tanya if you never met her. It's like
I thought you were paying Tanya. So we started to
compare notes on a bunch of things that didn't make sense.
She had lost her sight in her right eye, but
she was always wiping both sides of her glasses. I
don't know why I had to demonstrate that, and so
(42:25):
we started to compare notes and then we were like, guys,
this is horrible, but let's just like tonight, let's just
do a little bit of like you call her mom
and you find out whether she ever really played the violin,
because she lied about about being a virtuoso violinist. That's
the other thing. They all have sort of delusions of grandeur,
which is another thing that Elizabeth Finch had like there's
(42:46):
this grandiosity that goes along with I mean the balls.
It's crazy. But in one day, in a matter of
eight hours, we were able to get confirmation that every
single thing would been told was not true. And we
confronted her and said, you can never you know, we
can never speak to you again, and we put her
in jail. She went to jail, huh for two months
(43:12):
because we made a case of all the money that
we had paid to her, and she had extorted that
money based on a fabrication. And there's there's a law
depending on the city you're in, Like we were able
to file charges in Hollywood, but we couldn't in Beverly Hills.
So we filed charges that she had that we were
the victims of fraud.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Yeah, oh my god, I have the cry.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
This is give me he gbs that there are so.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
Many you think it's just one person that's like this,
and the fact that there's three stories happening.
Speaker 4 (43:45):
It's just it's crazy and anyway, there's there's more to
it than all that, but I'll spare it.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
We should have had you on with a liar episode, Dan.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
I know.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
The deep line as they tell well.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
There is a Christmas movie to lift our spirits.
Speaker 4 (44:05):
There's a Christmas movie Lindsey lohand Kristin Shanna with Tim
Meadows Ian Harding, Netflix, November twenty seventh. Really fun.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Oh my gosh, And we need to make Christmas movie
to love. I'm such a nerd in our family. We
print the holiday movie list and we laminate it and
we put it on the coffee table.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
By the family too, so we never are We're never.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Without an inspiration or idea of what to watch.
Speaker 5 (44:31):
Well, this one's really unique.
Speaker 4 (44:33):
It's not like your cookie cutter rom com, which is
one thing I love about it.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
I know, you know what, that's the most fun too.
But they actually weirdly become like they become a new normal,
and they'll become a classic. My eight year old, by
the way, decorated her room for Christmas before Halloween, so
we're really in the spirit.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
Oh my god, I can't wait. Dan, this is like
right up my alley. I love it so much. I
live for all these movies. I cannot wait to watch.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Well, Dan, we love you.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Please come on again, Sue.
Speaker 5 (45:00):
Whenever you ask you. First of all, you guys are stunning.
You both look so beautiful.
Speaker 4 (45:05):
We're on zoom and I know you're in your homes
and whatever, but you both look so amazing.
Speaker 5 (45:10):
I can't wait to see you in person.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
Well, I don't have any of these awards that you
have behind me, but.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
I know, I know, I know, don't even talk about
the award.
Speaker 4 (45:20):
This is my zoom room.
Speaker 5 (45:21):
But here that's talking about That's that's no I would have.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
By the way, I'd have it even closer. Dan, they're
too far away.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Little in fact, do you know that I haven't Emmy
for what?
Speaker 5 (45:35):
I'm not surprised.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Who did you steal it from?
Speaker 1 (45:39):
The capsule?
Speaker 4 (45:40):
Face was just like, I'm surprise.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Tell us, jess Jessica, what do you have a Emmy for?
Speaker 1 (45:47):
I'm gonna surprise you even put it in the background
of my saday. I'm just going to tell you I
haven't Emmy and I'll tell you another episode for what.
Speaker 4 (45:56):
I'm going to google.
Speaker 5 (45:57):
I'm you guys check.
Speaker 6 (46:03):
We will by Dan and make a lab coat please
for stat Okay, Dan, Bye, sending you all the love.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
Bye.
Speaker 5 (46:16):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
He had a juicy story at the end.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
We couldn't let it stop and he knows Finchy.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Oh, I know, well, we just we love Dan and
we love a Christmas movie and it's he's part of
the family forever. And I didn't know he knew your
mommy too.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Well, she's another one. Just you don't know your mom,
I know. Yeah, where are we gonna find her? If
I had a dollar for every time someone came up
to me and said, your mom did this, your mom
did that, And I'm always it always makes me so
so so proud. Yeah, of course it's been. It's been
a delight to be with you and Dan. I'm not
gonna watch that holiday movie.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
Yeah, And truly, I am such a Lindsay Lowan fan,
our little Syncred.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
I'm rooting for Lindsay.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
She doesn't even need rooting for her. She's already doing
I know. No, she's back, she's back. I'm gonna go
watch our little Secret and I'll see you later.
Speaker 3 (47:08):
Okay, let's call it the end of the episode.
Call It what It Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camil Luddington,
an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello Call.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
It crew, and welcome to another episode. This one's got
a little holiday, a little holiday feel into it.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
A little holiday shimmy, a little shimmy shake Yeah, a
little sparkle sparkle le tie joy.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Who do we have on to talk about? One of
my favorite things? You guys, I'm addicted. You probably already
noticed to holiday movies, and we're gonna be talking about
one today.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
We're gonna be talking about holiday movies. We're gonna be
talking about all of our favorite Grey's Anatomy episodes and
how Gray's Anatomy has done what it does so well
for so long with an actor. First he was an
actor on the show, and then he ended up becoming
a writer and simultaneously became a fan favorite, also as
(01:04):
an actor on a little show called Scandal. Yeah, I
am so excited to bring on Dan Bukatinski. Yes, I am.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Hi. Hello, it's been too long.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
It's been too long.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
We're talking about Grayson Aatama.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
You guys, everyone, Dan was a writer and you acted
on the show too.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
You're on our show I.
Speaker 5 (01:25):
Acted on the show before your character.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
I acted on the show season seven, no season six,
I can't remember.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
I came season five, so maybe right after that.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
I did an episode, and then two years later I
joined the writing staff part time while I was acting
on Scandal.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Okay, and I just feel like we need to just
give this due respect. So we're talking to Dan Bukatinsky, who, honestly,
I think I just knew of you because you are
one of the people that I would describe as multifaceted,
multi connected, and ubiquitous. It's sort of like Dan's everywhere,
Like of course he is. He's of course, he's next
to you in line, you know, grabbing a juice. Of course,
(02:07):
he's on set with you and now a writer. Of course,
he's at the fabulous party with his husband, having a
fabulous time with their beautiful children.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Like you just were everywhere.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
So then when you came to the show and then
we're acting, and then we were so excited to have
you around. But then you got to become an actor
a writer, I was like, I didn't even know that
you also wrote, So now you're writing and acting, and
I would just be so excited when you came to
set because we don't always get the writers on set
because you guys have to go to your room and
make the magic. But you were always, i think, an
(02:38):
acter favorite for set visits and being on set patrol.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I feel like that's why they sent Dan out.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yeah, because you wanted to Yeah, because you wanted to
do with you. Yeah, spilling the tea, coming up with
all our ideas and thoughts about all the shenanigans that
were happening in the world.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Yeah. Yeah, the lost of shenanigans, both on set and off.
But I also loved Look, I'm an actor first, writer second,
but I've been writing for twenty five years, and the
opportunity to be on set and produce episodes either that
I was part of writing or that were other writers' stuff,
(03:15):
but to connect with the actors talk about the work,
but also gossip about everything else.
Speaker 5 (03:21):
Yes, you know, we all have mutual friends. Camilla.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
I think I think I was there at the season
that introduced your character.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
You were, Yes, you.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Were definitely there that season, so I just knew you.
Was like, yes, you were there, That's what I'm saying.
Good Jazz like for me, you were og like you
were one well We were one of the original writers.
You were there and then they stole you.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Scandal stilly scandal stall.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Well, but I'm telling you writing on Gray's Anatomy for
hyper kondriac was such a bad idea. You know that
every morning is and that this is not that you asked.
But I'll just tell you very quickly. We were a
writer on Gray's Anatomy. Every morning, six in the morning,
you were at least back then, you would receive an
email called the Morning Medical. And the Morning Medical was
like the researchers would find some incredible, real story of
(04:11):
something that happened to someone for real somewhere you.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Know you hadn't even yet imagined could happen, and put
on your worry list yet.
Speaker 5 (04:20):
No, and I had little thing.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
You just had to add it.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
And so many of you were pediatric are you.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
I don't remember what your specialties are as the doctors
that you are on the show, but so many were
pediatric surgeons, so so many of the stories were pediatric
in nature. So all I would do is wake up
in a fit of anxiety, like, oh my god, now
I have that to worry about.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yeah, yeah, that was That was pretty much me. You
can blame me for that. That was me back in
the day in Pedes and I it had the opposite
effect for me when the stories would come up because
I knew they were because because by the time they
got to us they were fiction, I could just say,
this is made up.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
I didn't know you.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I would just ignore the fact that it had come
from a real story, and I was right, this is
fake blood, and this is a fa this is an
actor playing a sick child, and so this is.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
All make believe. I recently, like last year, I think
I did two episodes of Chicago med as you know,
as somebody coming in through the er covered in blood,
and I was just it was such an acid flashback
to being on set of Grays and knowing how the
donuts are made, but then from a completely different point
(05:29):
of view. It was very interesting.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Is there an episode that comes top of mind for
you that you loved so much being a part.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
Of on Grays?
Speaker 5 (05:37):
Yeah, there are a bunch. I mean, there's one that
I was involved in.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
My favorite that includes me.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Oh my god, it doesn't Dan, it doesn't have to
include Jess.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
There were so many twenty fourth season times, the two
fifty episodes that I.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Was trying to help him narrow it down. Camilla, I know,
so if she just thought of me, if you focused
on looking at my face, damp.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
Listen, you know I love you and you know where
you were one of my favorites. Both of you were.
I mean, Camilla, I was just meeting for the first
time and you were like deer in headlights the whole
first the whole first season, you were sort of like, Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
It was a lot.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
It's a lot that that set is is not you know,
it didn't like her huge, Yeah, Jessica didn't like me.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
It was a huge ensemble.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
And you guys were so well established. It was an
intimidating and to be the new intern class and our
and our our fandom have very strong feelings about new
people on our show, you got to really win them over.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
You have to earn their trust.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
You knew who intimidated me the most was working with Chandra.
And Sandra Chandra did not ever intimidate me. She was
so yummy to me.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Well she is.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
She's the nicest and the yummiest, but she's so good.
Oh and like so she would say her lines and
I wouldn't even know she was acting yet like i'd, oh,
we're starting, Like she's that good. I think I was
just intimid by by yeah, just yeah, she's just And
also she you know, as I've said this before, but
you know, Schandra knows everything. She knows she knows her lines,
(07:09):
she knows your lines, she knows where the props should be,
she knows the orientation of the story where you are
in it, and so she just I was intimidated by
the fact that she knew it all. And Sandra, oh,
kind of the same way. Like Sandra's such a deep
she analyzes each script and she's got it all. Like
I mean, looking at her script was like a piece
of art and also like a journal, like it was
(07:30):
so deeply like personal, and she just is the hardest worker.
And I so, I mean, I mean intimidated or inspired,
I guess, I guess.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Both Sandra and I were in a movie together ten
years earlier called Under the Tuscan Son. We had no
scenes together in the movie, but we became best friends.
So then I was writing on Grays and we had
a shorthand. But her script was like dog hair, yeah
on every other page, with like thoughts, and it was
intimidating like as a writer even just to be like,
(08:01):
all right that you're asking really good questions and we
need to answer them.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah, yeah, she really am.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
I think it helped me to be coming from both
points of view. I mean, I didn't love you know
how I wound up on a medical show given my
feelings about medicine in general. It was just crazy. And
then I wound up writing the most ridiculous episode based
on a true story about a magician who sawed his
assistant in half as part of the show, but actually
(08:30):
sawed her in half.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
We're either of you in that episode.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, I was there. I don't know what I was doing.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
I didn't deal with that medical if I would.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
The medical medical medical.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Are you telling me that you did Scandal before you
came to Grace.
Speaker 5 (08:44):
No, No, it was simultaneous.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
What happened. I did the first season of Scandal three episodes,
and I took a meeting with Betsy and Shanda and
Joan and Tony, the showrunners at the time, and they
were like, we want you to write on the writing staff,
and I was like, I'm excited about that, but if
there's any chance that this character is going to come
back on Scandal, I certainly don't want to shoot myself
in the foot, Yeah, and take this job and not
(09:10):
be able to do that, and she can.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
I guess what came next. You became like a fan
favorite on Scandal. Isn't that what happened next?
Speaker 4 (09:17):
No, what happened next is Sean has said, we know
where to find you if you're at Gray, so I'll
know where to find you.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
That's literally what she said.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Oh so she just occupied you don't worry about it.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
If you're going to consult on I was consulting anyway.
It was like, technically a consultant is like three days
a week, but you can work as many days. You know,
you work half days or full days or five days,
and then you miss two days the next week. If
you're going to be consulting on Gray's, we'll know where
to find you. And season two they used me again.
And season two is when the show really exploded. The
(09:48):
audience really connected to it, the whole live tweet movement
at the beginning of season two, which got people to
watch appointment TV Thursday nights for and I remember the
fall of that year of season two, something had changed.
I would be walking in New York and I felt
(10:08):
a visceral change that had I could not have predicted.
It was just like people were watching the show, and
people really responded to this kind of normal guy who
this monster Jeff Perry's character was married to. So I
did both, and I just I bounced back and forth
all the time, and my character would get two scenes
(10:30):
in an episode and I'd shoot them out and then
I'd be at grace the rest of the time.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
That's so you were, do you remember.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I remember the.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Tgit happening right where the line up was all Shonda,
and that is just that whole thing explode.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I mean that exploded.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
It did.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
It took on a life of its own.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
And Scott Foley had been on our show, and he
was on that show. And I knew Carrie from like
early days, meeting her when we were all starting out,
and I just knew her to be such a kind
and wonderful person. And then and I remember when you
guys started doing the live tweeting because we weren't doing it,
and we were like and then and then I had
to and you could see what was happening, and and
(11:11):
then I also remember, I remember and I'm sure that
I attacked you with questions because I like, what is
going on over there? Because the skin everyone in the
scandal cast was like they were the happiest, most hard
working family, just family, and and it was so it
(11:31):
was I mean believing me. There was a moment where
I was like, this can't be true. This is too much,
is too much. I can't handle this, this is too
much nice, too much. I just love my job. I
just love my job so much. I love working twenty
four hours a day. But it was actually true. And
I remember asking and like really really like putting people's
feet to the fire, like ones that I had real relationships.
I'd like pick them off from the pack and be like,
so really tell me what's up, Like you don't really
(11:53):
like them that much, right, And they'd all be like,
I love them, I love them, And I was like, okay, great.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
This is amazing.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Was weird. It was weird. It was a it was
a kind of kool aid. I mean, I don't really understand.
I credit I always say this, I credit carry with
it because you really do. It does start there, always, yeah,
and then how that trickles down and the culture that
starts to form, and everybody was really grateful for their
(12:22):
jobs and the writing. The writing was really good and
the scenes that we got to do, and everybody was
very very close, even people who you know, Josh Molina
was a total prankster and he would come to set
like armed to create problems in a joking way, and
even he got and he's really cynical, and even he
(12:42):
got sucked into the cult of Yeah, and we're all
still very close.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
I know.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
I was want to say, you can tell it's real
because years later you're not having to do a pressed
war together and like bullshit, it like you guys really
do still love each other. I mean, I saw Carrie's
picture for Halloween and she's like she did the challenges
for Halloween with the boys. It's so like it's you
guys are still so close.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
We're very very close. And I'm close to people who
I never had a scene with in thirty episodes like
I did. I did thirty episodes of Scandal and not
one time was ion screen with Katie Lowe's and he
was one of my closest friends.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
She's great, she's great, she's great. Well you, I mean,
you all got very lucky because for different reasons, when
we would do crossovers, or we would do press, or
(13:40):
we would do like the big photo shoots or whatever.
I mean again, it just every single person in your
cast was so welcoming, so kind. I remember the very
very the most. The strongest note that I felt being
around you all was that everyone seemed so grateful and
everyone was a grown up, right, Like everybody had been
on others shows, done to the things, and then they'd
(14:02):
come to this show like knowing who they were and
being really grateful for their job, knowing what it takes
to make a show a hit, which is no small feat.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
You hit it on the head. I mean, that's one
hundred percent what it is. I was in my forties
when I got that gig, and I had been in
LA for twenty years trying to have that kind of
like trying to get a break like that. I was
just a guest star, by the way, for all twenty
nine episodes, but I was so grateful for getting to
do that material. Jeff Perry had been on Grey's Anatomy
(14:32):
and he had been on series before, but was really
grateful to get to dive into that kind of material.
Everybody was a grown up and Grays forty seven years
ago when it started, you know, they were everybody. Everybody
as you know, and even Familie when you started, like
the whole premise of the show were interns. It's like,
(14:54):
you're getting people in their twenties, and how how a
twenty seven year old is going to react to their
first big series regular role as opposed to a thirty
seven year old those supposed.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
To a forty seven year old. Is it's just different.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
And you know there's been so much turnover, but what
do you credit the longevity of Grays too? Not that
I'm allowed to ask any questions, but I do want
you know.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
This is an equal opportunity streaming.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
I think, you know streaming really I came on it
in season nine, right, and I think it just is
one of those shows that exploded and hit the other
generations a couple I want to say, around season eleven
or twelve was when I started to notice like, oh,
it's really it's really getting in fact, our numbers came
in today and we're in the top ten of streaming. Still,
(15:40):
I think it's just hitting new generations.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
You're right, Hitting a new generation is the key, because
after ten seasons, suddenly the nine year olds who are
now nineteen who want to binge Gray's Anatomy are your
new fans.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
For the next twenty years exactly. It will live on forever.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Well, so that's sort of more the business part of it.
But I will that the magic of Grey's Anatomy is
is is. I was a fan first because I wasn't
on it, but I appointment television did. I watched it
on Sunday when it first came out on Sunday nights,
and then I got to be on it, and now
I am not on it, but I watch it from afar,
(16:18):
and I think that the magic has always been this
incredible circumstance of a world that has implicit incredibly high
stakes because it's life or death every day, right, and
then these wonderful actors, these grounded, real, like incredible casting
by the way, speaking back, I mean when you say, Jeff,
(16:38):
I can't not think of Linda. So it's like the
casting was always so phenomenal, these very grounded, very real actors.
And then these high arching, crazy stories that were like
again the Shondaland roller coaster, right, the kind of storylines
that you see on soap operas, just like I mean,
unbelievable like, no way it be her twin sister. But
(17:02):
you're talking about sawing someone in half. That's a real story.
We get to play with it.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Right, except what you're saying is totally true the balancing
act of some crazy medical story that like where you're
going to watch this group of people that you're already
invested in, like replace the heart of this person and
the hearts I mean, I used to love the episodes
where the helicopter would land and somebody would hand the
(17:27):
cooler with the organ and you'd run down the stairs
and you'd be in the elevator with the organ of
somebody who had to have that organ within the next
eight seconds. And yet you're in the elevator with your
ex boyfriend and so suddenly that elevator ride, despite the
medical tension and stakes.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
And music playing that you can't hear.
Speaker 5 (17:47):
How can you didn't call me back last night?
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Like the really e Merging that level of intimate, romantic
personal drama with real high stakes life or death drama
is just genius.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Yeah, and we always have a new intern glass that
turnover is like it just it's fresh for new stories
and new love.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Interesting. Yeah, it's just it just works.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
My secret dream as an actor and has been for
Maybe it started around Grays. I want to wear a
lab coat on a show so badly. I so badly
wanted to be a visiting doctor who then comes back
on Grays And of course, like my episode, I was
the spouse of somebody in the hospital bed. I was like,
how's that guy ever going to wind up? I was like,
wait a minute, maybe he goes off to college, gets
(18:33):
his medical degree, and he comes back in three years
and he's a doctor. But then I was on Scandal
and got murdered horribly and there was no way that
I was going to wind up in that world ever again.
But it's there's something about playing somebody who can who
can get to do the duality of a love story
and the high stakes of life saving that's kind of aspirational.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
We I don't know why you have decided that you
couldn't come back on.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Our show because I played a character and like the
super fans are going to be like, that's the husband of.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
The option, the husband left and when God, his isn't
the hole like in the world like you can't lay
I mean, no, this can't be the rule, because we
have meritiths you know, like we have people on both shows.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
If you're listening, Dan needs the lab coat.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Dan wants to come in as a visiting dermatologist or
visiting surgeon in the areas of.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yeah, pitch it now, Dan there, I'm all for it.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Would I would love it with all my heart, especially
to get to see you guys again.
Speaker 5 (19:35):
Wait, just are you am?
Speaker 1 (19:37):
I I'm not on it anymore, but were you?
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Just? Weren't you? Just? Sorry?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yes, I went yes, I mean, listen, it's always going
to be I will always go back. Yes, I went
back last year.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
Okay, I thought so, and it was so much fun.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
It was so much fun. And also I got to
like rewrite my departure. I got to go back and
have a wonderful time. And not that I love that, Yeah,
I love that.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
And you know, it's just I have such relationships like
Kim Raver and I have been friends because I was
a writing producer on a show called Lipstick Jungle that
she was on on NBC in two thousand and eight, right,
two thousand and eight, so four years.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Has also been everywhere. Kim's been on so.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
Many everywhere, Yes, Kim's been everywhere.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
I want to talk about I want to talk about
this holiday movie that you've done. Okay, because well, first
of all, I have eyeballs and ears, and so I've
experienced like Lindsay Lohan, and I watched every single moment
like her, all of all of her things. So she's
in it. And then also Kristin Chenowith, who's just nice sister.
Did you get to work with her?
Speaker 4 (20:38):
Talk about suspension of disbelief. I play Christian's husband, and
we don't have a great marriage. I'll just spoiler alert,
but this is like a fun Christmas rom com that's
got a little bit of meat. The Fokker's in it
because it's all about this family Christmas reunion where the
(21:00):
parents played by me and Kristin chenow With have our
children grown children, come home with their boyfriend and girlfriend
and it just so happens that their boyfriend and girlfriend
used to date and have the history. And that's Ian
Harding and Lindsay Lohan. So the show is really about
I didn't know this term until recently.
Speaker 5 (21:20):
You know, meet cute, right. We used to write them asatomy.
Speaker 4 (21:23):
This is a meat ugly apparently when two people, when
two people have a history and they hate each other,
and they were like, I never wanted to see you again,
and they meet in a rom com it's called a
meat ugly.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
I've never heard that term.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Well, it looks like from the trailer that Kristin plays
sort of a yeah, like a little she's a little grumpy,
a little thorny, a little what does she She's got
some rough edges.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
She is not the nicest she she's not the nicest
most welcoming to Lindsay Lohan. And a lot of the
movie's tension has to do with Lindsay trying to stay
in her good graces. That's a big premise of the movie.
And as my wife, she definitely puts me in my place.
(22:07):
You know, Listen, I bounce around in the movie. I
appear here and there, and then I have this incredible
scene with a huge secret of my own, which is
not how which you think it is. It's not what
it's not even what I thought it was going to
be when they it's a bigger secret than that. But
but it's a very fun movie where everyone in it
sort of is hanging on to something that you find
(22:28):
out by the end.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Well, I cannot wait to watch it.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Well, this is wait. We have to say the name
of it.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
You don't even say the name of it.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Secret, Yes, secret on Netflix. I'm a sucker for Christmas movies. Dan,
I're still gonna tell you.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
And Lindsay Low.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
We do have to talk about Lindsay for a second.
She's having this renaissance. Yes, she looks incredible. I fully,
I was always a fan of Lindsay. I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
I feel like she's really back.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
She's doing amazing work. She looks incredible. She's always been
super talented her. I watched another Christmas movie of hers
last year.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
I like her voice. It's always like been kind of
like that gravelly like.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Yeah, gravelly like smoky yea.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
I wish I was cool like that.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
I love it so much.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Jessica, you were in on Netflix Christmas movie Holiday with Kristen.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
I was, and she was fantastic, so funny. She played
my aunt Susan. She is such a hoot and holler.
And she's coming on the show too. And she cracks
me up because we became dear friends. And then when
you're friends with Kristin Jenna with what ends up happening
is she does not text as much as she sends
(23:41):
me videos She sends me videos from all kinds of places.
Some places you would not you would not think someone
would send you a video from them, but she will
send you a video from them.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yeah, exactly. And she and she's always like, you're you're
my sister, and we need, honey, we need to do
a movie. Be together. We're gonna find something. That's how
she talks to me, I know. And she'll tell me
all about her day in detailed slab.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
I get videos when when she's gone to sleep, she's
gone to sleep and the lights are out and it's
completely dark, and all I see are just like just
the hints of two little eyes. Hi husband. Yeah, I'm
so tired because she works. She works like nobody. But
we got very close. She's got the biggest heart of
(24:28):
anybody on the planet, and we had a great time.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
We ad lived like crazy.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
We really tried to feel what this completely dysfunctional marriage
would really be like. And so there's little hints of
that throughout the movie. We had a great time. Tim
Meadows is in the movie as well. This hilarious John
Rodnitski is in the movie. Has my son and it's
it's really fun and Lindsay, I have to tell you
I also a huge, huge fan when you see the
(24:55):
work she did as a kid. Oh, I know, in
the movie Trap.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
I just watched it with Hayden.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
I watch it. I think I've seen it five times.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
I have two. But she's so talented, she's so innately talented,
and so you know, now she's got a kid of
her own, and she's really settled down, and it's really funny,
and she was a delight.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
And you know what I mean just naming it, talk
about being a grown up. She's been through it, you know,
And I don't. I don't know because I haven't been
following the press that she's done. I don't know if
she's speaking to it. But I remember the like the
meltdown days when just things. I mean, she had such
a huge level of fame and attention on her and
(25:38):
she was just trying to live her life. And life
can be real messy sometimes, and when.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
We see our twenties, eighteen to twenty eight is not
an easy decade. It's just not imagine the amount of
scrutiny and having to answer to it and having it
all played out publicly.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
It's just not no, and you're usually not peaking then, like,
that's not when we're not that's not when we're peaking.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Now, those are when you're in the trenches. You want
to be able to make mistakes. You just need it,
not on the cover of People magazine.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
That's exactly right. You want to be able to make
your mistakes and not. This is one of the reasons
I started this thing on Instagram. If you follow me
on Instagram, I do this thing called Failure Fridays, which
is all about this idea that you know, social media,
since it's the beginning, has become the place for the
humble brag, where you scroll all day long to see
(26:27):
people with bodies better than yours, and cappuccinos that look
better than yours, and the bread that's been baked better
than yours, and awards and dresses and red carpets, and
it's also fabulous, and it's easy to compare and despair.
But the truth is, if we were to use social
media a little bit more, all of us as a universe,
to also share in our setbacks, our humiliations, our embarrassments,
(26:48):
and our failures, we would realize that the path to
success is paved with failures and embarrassments and setbacks. And
so I started this thing failure Friday, where I encourage
peopeople to comment tell their story post hashtag failure Friday.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
I have so many I'm so aware I start.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
That is part of the problem.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
Part of the problem is like, oh god, where I
have my parenting fails, my relationship fails, my professional fails.
But the truth is all of them are also surrounded
by these moments of triumph. And we don't all only
triumph and we don't all only fail. It's just we
can't define ourselves wholly by one success or one failure.
And so anyway, I'm encouraging people to embrace their setbacks
(27:33):
and then the comeback is so much more lovely. Like
I think there's so much goodwill towards towards Lindsay, maybe
because her setbacks were all so public.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
I also think that if you're if you're if you're
really paying attention and you're failing and you're succeeding and
you're honest with yourself and you're naming it, you have
a far better relationship with the success and with the failure.
So you you you can have the median be really
(28:18):
nice and static. Okay, like you're always going to go
back to Okay, you're gonna you're gonna get really high
and you're gonna go really low. By the way, if
you're not making mistakes, you're not trying, right, So you
got to try and sometimes it'll work and sometimes it won't.
I mean, it's interesting. I don't know why, but to
this morning, I was talking to a friend about that
(28:38):
experiment they did with the with the Olympians, the study
with the the those who win gold, silver, and bronze,
and I don't know if you've seen it, but the
greatest incidences of depression and suicide come from the silvers
because they didn't they were they were just shy of
being funds.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
I've written pilots that have been so personal to me
and have been like I put my blood, sweat and
tears in them, and when they don't move forward, I'm like,
oh my god, I'm never gonna what's the point, what's
the point?
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Oh my gosh. And the sadness, I mean, I literally
go boneless on the floor. I had what happened maybe
a year and a half ago, and it's the trailers
are playing now and Camilla, how many times have I
sent you like screenshots of like, Okay, I'm just gonna
feel I'm gonna feel my feelings right now between me
and the girl who got it. I'm real happy for her,
but I'm all sad for me and all the things, right,
(29:33):
And that's the thing. Also, it's like you want to
recognize that you you were competitive, you.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Just didn't get it. You just didn't get it, because
there's sometimes if you're like, well, I'm I lost, therefore
I'm a loser. Therefore I'm not going to do this again.
I'm not doing this again, Like you definitely won't get
another opportunity if you don't do it again.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Yeah, right, Like you're dancing too, because I like this failure.
Fridays is when you're scrolling right now, your own people
are only posting the gold medal moments, right, and it's
actually getting kind of boring.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Like in movies, you're rooting.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
For Rocky, right, Like Rocky isn't isn't like at the
top of his game, He's is How boring is that
story you're rooting for? Like the growth of being a
rock bottom and working your way up. I think it's
so cool to I like the failure Fridays. I think
that Jess and I have gotten. One of the things
we've enjoyed about podcasting actually and doing this is that
(30:26):
we've ended up sharing so much of our shit. Yeah,
and it's been really therapeutic.
Speaker 5 (30:33):
But listen, what you're doing.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
You're creating something that's a conversation that allows for that
to be part of it, so something successful can come
out of the conversation around something.
Speaker 5 (30:44):
Not so successful. It was very hard for me to do.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
I'll be honest with you, Like many actors and certainly
at my age, I'm very reluctant to let people think
that I'm flawed. I mean, obviously we all are. What
I'm saying, Like, I don't want people to see I
wear spanks twenty four seven, Like I don't want to
let my spanks out and let people see. And I had.
I did one failure Friday where I was like challenging
(31:07):
myself to do five pull ups and I didn't make it,
and I showed it on camera, and it's really sad
and hilarious but really pathetic. But you know what, it's
only motivating me to try to just get stronger and
eventually I'll be.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
Able to pull up up it.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
I can do some I can do. I can do
underhand hin ups, a lot of them, but the overhands hard.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Are you kidding? It's very hard? But you could start
them with the little assist thing, the little rubber bands.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
If you get them that, you know what I gotta
I gotta start doing that.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Because, by the way, there's another lesson. Sometimes you just need.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
Help, yes, yes, advocate.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Sometimes you can do the thing. You just need some help.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
The thing.
Speaker 5 (31:49):
You just need to ask for help.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
And it's not embarrassing to ask for help. It's not gosh, no,
my gosh.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
I asked for help all the time my mother. I
don't know how this is possible going. I actually don't
have it on films, so I might need to have
it on film. My mother can do a five minute plank?
Speaker 4 (32:06):
What what?
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (32:08):
No assist?
Speaker 1 (32:10):
No assist. Evidently no assist.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
Oh that's incredible. Yeah, he course eel.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
I've gone back to the gym in the past, I
probably about two and a half months ago, with like
real regularity. I'm holding myself accountable, and my goal is
I want to do a five minute plank. And I'm
just going to tell you right now, I haven't been
out for the past two and a half months, and
I'm I'm only a minute and a half.
Speaker 5 (32:32):
Yeah, but a minute and a half.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
You only have three and a half to go, exactly.
Speaker 5 (32:36):
You started with five to go three and a half.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
And it's been like, it's been humbling, it's been all
the things we're talking about. And obviously it's a silly example,
but it's just, you know, the things that make you
stronger but also remind you that you have room to
grow and and a weakness that needs to be developed,
and also inspiration and you have help and all the things.
I love talking you.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
I miss having you, and I like to tell your.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Mom that I say hello. I'm not going to get
into it, but your mother was incredibly incredibly helpful to me.
I don't I don't you know what. I can't talk
about it because I don't want to get choked.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Up, but you'll start crying.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
We had we had a particularly rough period with our
You know, I'm the parents of teenagers now. They don't
tell you what to expect when when you're expecting, is
that eventually those babies are going to become teenagers. Don't
listen to this.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Oh God, I know I'm listening so intently.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Dan, I'm like, tell me.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Do we had some challenges in the teenage years and
and and you know, I've got we're two dads and
navigating our daughter through those things. And your mom was
incredibly helpful to me. So please just tell her I
say hello, and I hold that very close to my heart.
We love to talk about the unspeakable, which is.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Oh, we've talked about it. I know where you're going.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
Anatomy of a lie.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Yeah, oh gosh, yes we can. We can out to just.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
Tell you something I'm coming to you with. Like when
I met my husband thirty years ago. He was taking
care of a woman who was dying of cancer, who
had lost all of her hair, and five of us
came around, six of us galvanized around her for an
entire year and took her to chemo and bought her
everything and paid her rent and bathed her and I
(34:22):
mean horrible things that we did.
Speaker 5 (34:23):
And it was all a lie. Good night, everybody.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
It was all I There's more than one person who
would do that one.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
This is my point, is I met I met you
know obviously, when I came back to the writer. When
I came back to the writer's room of Grace to
visit all my buddies in the year that I she
started on Grays the year after I left, maybe even.
Speaker 5 (34:46):
My slot went to her.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
And then I went into that right into that writer's
room to say hi to Tia and the whole gang.
And I met her and she was wearing a scarf
on her head, and she obviously had lost had lost
her hair, and she really she did a number. And
I was riveted by that documentary. Obviously I have a
connection you met her.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
Was there any part of you that was like, she's
a little she's a little odd.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
No, well, yes, yeah, she was a little odd.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
But never did you ever not believe? Did you?
Speaker 1 (35:15):
I mean, that's what I was saying when we talked
about it. I said, there was never a moment where
I would have thought to say, it's.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
A perfect crime. People asked us that all the time,
like how did you guys all fall for it? I'm like,
fall for it? When will you ever when someone tells
you that they have been diagnosed with cancer, would you
ever say to them prove it? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (35:32):
I was a person if you make someone if you
say that to someone.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Dan, did you find out did you find out the
news that it was not true from the article or
because of whispers.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
I'm very good friends with Christa and a lot of
the gang, the Old og Original Gray's Anatomy folk, so
I think I heard it from them first, but it
was it was around the time that the article was
bubbling up, so I didn't hear it early. I heard
it around the same time.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
And you watched the documentary, and.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
I watched the documentary, and you.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Watch all three parts.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
I sure did, and I have to tell you, I'm
it's so it's so much more disturbing than what we
experienced because it goes so far beyond that the illness,
like lying about the illness is like a fraction of
what the larger story is. And it's extremely upsetting. Yeah,
I and I and I to you, who had a
(36:32):
very strong relationship, And I can only imagine, and I
just know what. All I know is I can imagine
because I experienced it also with somebody else.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
That's insane that there's somebody else I did. We have
talked about this a little on the pop before, but
I said to Jess, it felt I went into the
first episode.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Not knowing what it was like. It came out and
I was like, nobody had talked.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
To me about it, and I was like with my husband,
I just watch the first one and it was like
watching myself in a dateline episode. I had no idea
how much I would be in it, and it was
so jarring that I have not watched beyond. But it
is interesting always to talk to other people. It's you know,
(37:17):
it's not many of us that have were part of
this insane story.
Speaker 5 (37:22):
I have compassion for those with mental illness.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
This particular one takes down so many people that I
have a very hard time like drumming up the compassion
only because I experienced it and I feel like nine
months of my life my compassion for another individual was
was squandered. But that said, much like Munchausen, where you
are making yourself sick, actually making yourself sick in order
(37:48):
to get cared for, the lying about events in your life,
the lying about drama and or illness.
Speaker 5 (37:55):
In order to bring people towards.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
You, is a phenomenon that is far more common and
what we think, and it's very upsetting.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
You're talking and I was just reminded of something that
I can't believe. I didn't talk about when we were
talking about liars maybe, I don't know. Six or seven
years ago, Christopher got a message through some platform when
he was honest about a young woman who was dealing
with a disease that was going to that she was
(38:39):
going to die, she was going to die soon, and
her favorite show was Graise and she just wanted to
talk to me, and so we got her number and
I called her and I was on the phone with
her for about forty five minutes because it wasn't just illness,
but there had also been there had been abuse, and
there had been and forty five minutes of listening to
her and listening to her, and then we went to
(39:01):
get off the phone, and she was saying that she
was meant to die any day like this was she
was in hospice and it was happening, and she said,
you know, if i'm here tomorrow, would you be able
to talk to me one more time? And I said absolutely.
So the next day I get messaged I'm still here,
can you talk? I call her, We talk, and I
(39:21):
don't know what it was. At minute thirty two that
just was like something, there's just something off, like I
didn't know what it was, but it's just something that
was off. And I ended it just like I had
the day before, like I'm sending so much love and
I'm so glad that I was able to be here
for you. And I hung up and I called the
(39:42):
person that in my life helps check on these kinds
of things, and I said, I just have a feeling
that this something's not right. I'm going to give you
the phone number, and I'm going to give you all
the documentation of how this came to me and everything else.
Full blown lie now.
Speaker 5 (39:57):
But guess what she got to talk to jess A Capshaw.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Yeah, so bonkers, Dan, How did you find out that
you're the person you were taking care of?
Speaker 1 (40:08):
How did you find out that that was not true?
Speaker 4 (40:11):
Not to plug something again, but I'm gonna plug something. Yeah.
My book Does This Baby Make Me Look Straight? Is
a story of how Don and I became parents. But
chapter two, if you just listen to one chapter in
the whole audiobook, chapter two, it tells you, tells you No,
I'm not telling you to do that, because I'm going
to tell you right now. But the chapter two tells
the entire story of how I met my husband and
(40:33):
the circumstances of meeting this person and how we to,
you know, and how it all played out. But in
a nutshell, it's one of those things where as I
was saying before, you never really want to check, because
what kind of person would you be? The very things
that don't feel right to you, you just swallow and
(40:53):
you think, I guess this is what it's like to
be with someone who has very little time left and
as annoying as there be. And I mean, there were
elements of this woman's life that were like, she's asking
so much.
Speaker 5 (41:06):
There's not one moment where.
Speaker 4 (41:07):
She's ever like, guys, you go out, go to the movies,
don't worry about me, Just have a good night out.
I'll be fine. I'll see you tomorrow. Like it was
never that, which I don't know, knock on wood, I've
never had.
Speaker 5 (41:19):
An illness like that.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
But I know that I'm I know that I would
want those around me who were spending time caring for me,
who also I would love them enough. So there was
an element about her that just bugged everybody. So six
of us went to go see Manhattan Murder Mystery, which
is all about people like it's like only merged in
the building. Really the inspiration behind it, But it's all
(41:43):
about this couple who live next door and they sort
of uncover a mystery domestically in their own home. They're
not detectives. And we went to a restaurant afterwards, and
I don't know how it happened, but we started talking
and comparing notes about our this person's nurse that all
of us have clearly met, and they're like, no, no, I
(42:05):
never met her nurse. Well, you're paying her. How did
you pay Tanya if you never met her. It's like
I thought you were paying Tanya. So we started to
compare notes on a bunch of things that didn't make sense.
She had lost her sight in her right eye, but
she was always wiping both sides of her glasses. I
don't know why I had to demonstrate that, and so
(42:25):
we started to compare notes and then we were like, guys,
this is horrible, but let's just like tonight, let's just
do a little bit of like you call her mom
and you find out whether she ever really played the violin,
because she lied about about being a virtuoso violinist. That's
the other thing. They all have sort of delusions of grandeur,
which is another thing that Elizabeth Finch had like there's
(42:46):
this grandiosity that goes along with I mean the balls.
It's crazy. But in one day, in a matter of
eight hours, we were able to get confirmation that every
single thing would been told was not true. And we
confronted her and said, you can never you know, we
can never speak to you again, and we put her
in jail. She went to jail, huh for two months
(43:12):
because we made a case of all the money that
we had paid to her, and she had extorted that
money based on a fabrication. And there's there's a law
depending on the city you're in, Like we were able
to file charges in Hollywood, but we couldn't in Beverly Hills.
So we filed charges that she had that we were
the victims of fraud.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Yeah, oh my god, I have the cry.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
This is give me he gbs that there are so.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
Many you think it's just one person that's like this,
and the fact that there's three stories happening.
Speaker 4 (43:45):
It's just it's crazy and anyway, there's there's more to
it than all that, but I'll spare it.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
We should have had you on with a liar episode, Dan.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
I know.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
The deep line as they tell well.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
There is a Christmas movie to lift our spirits.
Speaker 4 (44:05):
There's a Christmas movie Lindsey lohand Kristin Shanna with Tim
Meadows Ian Harding, Netflix, November twenty seventh. Really fun.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Oh my gosh, And we need to make Christmas movie
to love. I'm such a nerd in our family. We
print the holiday movie list and we laminate it and
we put it on the coffee table.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
By the family too, so we never are We're never.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Without an inspiration or idea of what to watch.
Speaker 5 (44:31):
Well, this one's really unique.
Speaker 4 (44:33):
It's not like your cookie cutter rom com, which is
one thing I love about it.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
I know, you know what, that's the most fun too.
But they actually weirdly become like they become a new normal,
and they'll become a classic. My eight year old, by
the way, decorated her room for Christmas before Halloween, so
we're really in the spirit.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
Oh my god, I can't wait. Dan, this is like
right up my alley. I love it so much. I
live for all these movies. I cannot wait to watch.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Well, Dan, we love you.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Please come on again, Sue.
Speaker 5 (45:00):
Whenever you ask you. First of all, you guys are stunning.
You both look so beautiful.
Speaker 4 (45:05):
We're on zoom and I know you're in your homes
and whatever, but you both look so amazing.
Speaker 5 (45:10):
I can't wait to see you in person.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
Well, I don't have any of these awards that you
have behind me, but.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
I know, I know, I know, don't even talk about
the award.
Speaker 4 (45:20):
This is my zoom room.
Speaker 5 (45:21):
But here that's talking about That's that's no I would have.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
By the way, I'd have it even closer. Dan, they're
too far away.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Little in fact, do you know that I haven't Emmy
for what?
Speaker 5 (45:35):
I'm not surprised.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Who did you steal it from?
Speaker 1 (45:39):
The capsule?
Speaker 4 (45:40):
Face was just like, I'm surprise.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Tell us, jess Jessica, what do you have a Emmy for?
Speaker 1 (45:47):
I'm gonna surprise you even put it in the background
of my saday. I'm just going to tell you I
haven't Emmy and I'll tell you another episode for what.
Speaker 4 (45:56):
I'm going to google.
Speaker 5 (45:57):
I'm you guys check.
Speaker 6 (46:03):
We will by Dan and make a lab coat please
for stat Okay, Dan, Bye, sending you all the love.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
Bye.
Speaker 5 (46:16):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
He had a juicy story at the end.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
We couldn't let it stop and he knows Finchy.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Oh, I know, well, we just we love Dan and
we love a Christmas movie and it's he's part of
the family forever. And I didn't know he knew your
mommy too.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Well, she's another one. Just you don't know your mom,
I know. Yeah, where are we gonna find her? If
I had a dollar for every time someone came up
to me and said, your mom did this, your mom
did that, And I'm always it always makes me so
so so proud. Yeah, of course it's been. It's been
a delight to be with you and Dan. I'm not
gonna watch that holiday movie.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
Yeah, And truly, I am such a Lindsay Lowan fan,
our little Syncred.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
I'm rooting for Lindsay.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
She doesn't even need rooting for her. She's already doing
I know. No, she's back, she's back. I'm gonna go
watch our little Secret and I'll see you later.
Speaker 3 (47:08):
Okay, let's call it the end of the episode.
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Jessica Capshaw
Camilla Luddington
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