November 6, 2024 • 35 mins
Elián and his dad went back to Cuba in June 2000, just four months before the US Presidential election between George W. Bush and Al Gore. Miami Cubans, hurt and angered by President Bill Clinton’s handling of the Elián case, resolved to vote against the Democrats and for the Republicans in what was called el voto castigo — the punishment vote.
To understand the political influence of Cuban-Americans, the stakes, and lasting impact of this moment, producer Tasha Sandoval takes the mic. We meet Tasha’s grandmother, an 87-year-old Miami Cuban, and learn how her story as a first wave Cuban exile informs her perspective.
This season's cover art by Ranfis Suárez Ramos.
Thanks to These Archival Sources:
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ooh, hi there. I'm Tasha Sanload, a producer for this series.
You might remember me from those long days of reporting
and eating fasilitos with Penny in Miami.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
So I'm going to try to carlas Facilito writer.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
It's giving toaster Strudel vibes like it has those holes.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
This want is really good, but I really liked more
than one yesterday, and.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
They're just warm and delicious. I'm going to take the
mic for this episode to tell you about a very
critical moment in this story and how it relates to
my family. Let's start in June two thousand, when Elean
went back to Cuba. It was just four months before
the two thousand presidential election. Vice President Al Gore led
the Democratic ticket.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
I think his point now is to ensure the prosperity
and riches Allmark families, not just a cute.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
While Texas Governor George W. Bush, the son of a
former president, led the Republican ticket.
Speaker 5 (01:03):
We should help people live their lives, but not run them.
I'm asking for your vote.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
The two candidates had different approaches to the usual issues
foreign policy, social security, energy, and the environment, but there
was a central question how to restore integrity and honor
to the White House after Bill Clinton's affair. Every election
is defining, but this one was seemingly higher stakes. If
(01:30):
Bush won, the election, results could usher in a new
era of conservative politics, a foreshadowing even on the overturning
of Roe v. Wade.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
This is a very important issue because a lot of
young women in this country take this right for granted,
and it could be lost. It is on the ballot
in this election, making no mistake of it.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
I'll tell you what kind of judges he'll put on there.
He'll put liberal activist judges who will use their bench
to subvert the legislature. That's what he'll do.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Kept mounting. For Miami Cubans, the memory of the raid
and Eleon's return to Cuba was still fresh, and it
affected the way the community approached the election. They expressed
outrage they felt betrayed by President Clinton and the Democrats
who had allowed Eleon to go back to Cuba to
(02:23):
become a trophy for Fidel Castro's revolution. Influential channels, including
popular radio station Rajomanbi, called on the Cuban American community
to turn their anger into action at the voting booth.
It was called Eloto castigo, the punishment vote. Here's Cuban
(02:44):
American historian Ada Ferrier.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
They blamed Clinton, they blamed Janet Reno, and Gore was
Clinton's vice president.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Gore was reluctant to break with his party's stance on
the Eleion case, but on the campaign trail he did
express his for leaving the decision to the family courts.
Here's Gore in an April campaign speech, reiterating what he
said during a January Iowa debate.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
This whole thing ought to be decided on the basis
of that standard, what is in the best entrance of
the child.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
The media characterized gore stands as inconsistent, and Bush called
Gore out for foot flopping on the issue.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
I am concerned that Al Gore's sudden change of position
yesterday may have had more to do with the vice
president's political interests than with the best interests of Alian Gonzales.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
And the thing is, by election day, people believed that
the results would come down to the electoral votes in
the swing state of Florida, where Cuban American voters were
still fresh off the Elian case. Recently, I was talking
about that election with my Cuban grandma who lives in Miami.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yo, my awlitadab Yes, Mediocon.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
It was like being stabbed in the back, she says.
He like giving Cuba a precious treasure. Elyen, My grandma
is part of the first wave of Cuban exiles, the
Golden Exiles. These are Cubans who left the island between
(04:23):
nineteen fifty nine and nineteen sixty two, right after the revolution.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Europian Republicanoctoria Republican Cubans are a Republican, she tells me,
matter of factly, in an attempt to support staunch opposition
to communism in Cuba.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Many exiles que to the American right politically, and in
my experience, in some liberal and progressive spaces, Cuban Americans
are sometimes painted as the boogeyman, the exception to a
perceived democratic Latinian monolith. But Latino Republicanism can be found elsewhere,
far beyond Cuban Miami. They're actually more Latina Republicans in
(05:02):
Arizona than there are in Florida. It's specifically Cuban Americans, though,
who seem to have a reputation as the political odd
man out. I bet you've seen the memes Selena Kinanida
as Latins in the US, her murderer sad as Cuban Americans.
(05:25):
Cuban Americans are vilified internationally too. My dad's side is Colombian,
so I grew up visiting family in Boada. While visiting
the Ni Naal in my twenties, I was shocked to
find a giant mural of Cheguada dominating the central plaza.
(05:48):
I realized that for most of the Latin American left,
Cuba is long seen as a kind of utopia. It's
the revolution that succeeded that seemed to triumph over us imperially. Then,
when traveling in Europe after college, some French backpackers told
me my grandparents were the problem. They were the self
(06:10):
serving land owning elites who had abandoned the revolution. Though
I defended my grandparents at that moment, these comments done
because I love my Grandma Morena, and I love Cuban Miami.
(06:33):
Oh this is when it sends here. I know it's
not as simple as those who left and those who
stayed in Cuba as good and bad, right and wrong.
I also care about the Alian story. I remember staying
with my grandma one weekend during that time, seeing Cuban
(06:56):
flags all over the place, wondering what was going on.
Even though I was only eight years old, I understood
that something big was happening. So to continue to tell
you about Elian and about the election that followed, I'm
going to tell you about my grandma, the story of
a woman in her eighties from a group I feel
is often misunderstood. I'm also going to tell you about
(07:19):
one of the most highly contested presidential elections in US history,
to clarify and complicate how it's all connected and how
it's possible that one little boy's bait changed US politics forever.
I'm Tasha Sanlol and this is Chess Piece. The Ilian
(07:40):
Gonsale Story a production of Fututo Studios in partnership with
Iheart's Mike and Guda podcast Network. As we explained in
(08:06):
episode five, Alan was taken from the Little Havanah home
through the federal government raid. This was late April two thousand.
Cuban Americans had until November seventh, election day to coalesce
against the Democrats. Through El Voto Castigo. Voters expressed their concerns, I.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
Used to be a Democrat up to the time of
the Lean Gonzalez incident. And I believe that our government,
the United acting the best interest of all Americans.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
I know. Mayawa Liita Ais said Cuban Americans are typically Republican,
but that hasn't always been a foregone conclusion. In nineteen
ninety six, when he was re elected, Bill Clinton won Florida, but.
Speaker 6 (08:45):
He got more Cuban American votes than any other Democrat before.
He was a Democrat that Cubans supporting.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Gillermo Grenier Cuban American sociologists who we heard from earlier
in the series. His area of expertise is Cuban American
identity and ideology. It's difficult to verify if Clinton got
more Cuban American votes than any other Democrat ever, but
he was certainly more popular than Democrats had been among
(09:12):
Cuban Americans during the Reagan and Bush years. You see,
Cubans weren't Republicans by default. In a twenty twenty one article,
Giedmo highlighted a Miami Herald analysis of the nineteen sixty
eight presidential election. According to Guilledmo, it shows that Cubans
who had already become citizens were splitting the vote pretty
(09:32):
evenly between the two parties. Then, in the nineteen seventy
six presidential election, Jimmy Carter, a Democrat, won about seventy
five percent of the Cuban vote. But in the eighties,
the Republican Party started to strategically court Cuban Americans.
Speaker 6 (09:51):
They serviced the community. The Cubans became Republicans because the
Republican Party nurtured them.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
In the next presidential election, just four years later, eighty
six percent of Cuban American voters in Dade County voted
for Republican candidate Ronald Reagan. President Reagan's anti castro and
anti communist foreign policy initiatives were popular in Miami, but
some continued to vote for the Democrats.
Speaker 6 (10:18):
Bill Clinton had kind of mended enough of the framework
so that Cubans were not automatically going to vote Republican.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
In nineteen ninety six, President Clinton signed the Helms Burton Act,
a piece of legislation that enforced the economic embargo against
the Cuban government. He ended up winning Miami Dade County
by a significant margin, so in two thousand there was
a chance that Gore could do the same.
Speaker 6 (10:45):
Gore turned himself inside out trying to appease the Cuban
American community on eliankicks.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
But after the raid, those chances of winning the Cuban
American vote seemed to diminish. The damage was Ellion's great
uncle in Miami, las Aro Gonzalez, even went on Spanish
language radio urging his fellow Miami Cubans to vote against Gore.
With Ilvoto Castigo, the exile community rallied together.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
People blame the Democrat for sending Alien back.
Speaker 6 (11:17):
Even Cuban Democrats that otherwise would have voted for a
Democratic candidate punished whether vote. They kind of said, all right,
this was the Democrats doing, and we're going to vote Republican.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
So was Ilboto Castigo successful. It would take not hours,
not days, not weeks, but over a month after election
night to find out once and for all, because this
wasn't just any election. At seven forty nine on election night,
NBC was the first network to call Florida for Gore.
Speaker 7 (11:58):
We're going to now for check an important win for
Vice President Al Gore. NBC News for checks that he
wins the twenty five electoral votes in the state of.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Florida, but they soon took it back all.
Speaker 7 (12:09):
Right, we're officially saying that Florida is too close to
call because of a recall.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
In the wee hours on election night, Gore called Bush
to concede.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
We are told the Vice President will concede the election
in his brief remarks here tonight.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
But then, in an unprecedented move, Gore recanted his concession
because he hadn't officially lost.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
People around the country awoke.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Today to find yesterday's presidential election is still too close
to call. The world seemed to stop. There was a
recount in Florida, a recount that would expose faulty ad
hoc election systems in the United States.
Speaker 8 (12:51):
Vote o medic machines and conflicting rules about ballots and
fuzzy rules about what is a vote.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
There was no uniform ballot across the country or across
the state of Florida, and there was a particular problem,
including in Miami Dade County. Some voting machines had an
old school punch card system. If the machine didn't punch
a ballot all the way through, that vote wasn't counted.
The remaining pieces of paper came to be known as chads.
(13:27):
You might remember this hanging chads pregnant chads. So to Democrats,
this seemed to prove that there were many uncounted votes
for Al Gore.
Speaker 9 (13:37):
The so called pregnant or dimpled ballots. Do they show
voters intent to select Gore, as Democrats claim, or are
they simply an indentation on the ballot from an indecisive
voter as Republicans claim.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
There were also so called butterfly ballots, which led some
voters to accidentally vote for a third party candidate.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
Thirty five hundred people did not vote.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
If you can it come on this heavily democratic Homage county.
All eyes were on Florida and especially on Miami Dade County.
So would Cuban Miami get its revenge?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
M plant?
Speaker 1 (14:49):
My grandma loves her plants American. They're her companions. She
says they talked to her and say thank you, and
so she talks to them, help them grow.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yaeta.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
When I stay with her, she makes me her expert Cubano.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
It natasa roma mm hmm perfect.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
My grandma's name is Yosada de los Angeles translation God
Given of the Angels. She goes by Daddy, so I
call her a Wilita daddi, and she has a nickname
for me too, Masta no.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Sashi. Really, come Onita, thatshi.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Really, it doesn't mean anything, she says, It's just cute,
like a small Tasha. As she's gotten older, I've noticed
Mayita really lose her filter.
Speaker 9 (16:05):
She says.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Whatever she's thinking, wissi ak. As she pointed to our
family photos in her living room. She described us as
her zoo. But she still insists that she's quiet and shai.
She also says she's never been very political. She's just
(16:26):
gone with the tide.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Your matava concentra babys.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
When she first got to this country, she was too
busy raising her family to be political, she says. But
there was a time when she was more tapped into
politics in the nineteen fifties in Cuba.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Is sur.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Ailita says that by the time Batista, Cuba's dictator before Castro,
had been in power for five years, she and her
peers were hoping for a revolution.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Han Tekhoven she.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
At first they cheered on castro.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
Resign board bloodshed and fled. His departure touched off while
rejoicing in the capitol.
Speaker 6 (17:18):
As the first element of rebel forces entered nevana.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Eva abbera kova democratica.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
They hoped that Castro could deliver on the promise of
a free and democratic Cuba in also sidio, but she
says that didn't happen. I'd never heard this part of
the story. It never occurred to me that there was
a time when my grandma could have had any admiration
for Castro, because I've only usually heard the second part
(17:51):
of the story what happened after Fidel Castro took over.
My grandparents left Cuba in nineteen six two because my
great grandfather said it was time for them.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
To go initial surhio ye ya kia de Cuba keyota
a completamenttin.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
So Awalita Lali did as she was told, with my
grandfather and their one year old baby. She got on
a flight to Miami, back when there were still commercial
flights leaving the island. But Davi was sure she'd be
back and soon in a couple of months.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Even yode he documente la veta princan.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
And said, missus, she left important documents and paperwork in
her dust drawer. But Ami Casita am of course, she
was going to return to Cuba, to her home, to
her cositas her things, but she would never return home
(18:57):
ever again. There would be very little to go home too,
because meanwhile in Cuba, one day, Dali's brother, who had
stayed behind, drove up to the family dairy farm.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Well I think Io the Lecheria, and there were men
guarding the entrance. Gio and Schoeta e aviendoda.
Speaker 7 (19:30):
Hero.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
This isn't yours anymore. You can't come in. The men said,
this belongs to the revolution, and so her brother wasn't
allowed in. Remember the revolutionary government confiscated land from Cubans
(19:57):
who held more than a thousand acres. This fact is
often brought up in the abstract as something the revolution
did to redistribute wealth. And I get the principle it
was part of a plan to create greater economic equality
on an island that was deeply unequal. But I want
you to think about what this actually looks like on
a personal level. A soldier shows up at your door
(20:20):
and doesn't let you back in ever again. It's something
that after more than six decades, Mayamita Lali still mourns.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Maybe that Kei is otos de may know a Santaios.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
At eighty seven, she's been in the US since nineteen
sixty two.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Gelo aya mimente aseal or really sal.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
But she says she still hasn't fully realized or accepted
that her life is here. And so it's this feeling
of uprootedness, the essence of exile that informs everything in
her life, from the mundane, a loyalty to a specific
coffee brand, belong to the consequential, a particular sway in politics.
(21:15):
Mayamalita seemingly ticks all the boxes expectations of what a
Cuban American woman in her eighties might think and feel.
But she would go on to tell me something about
Ilian that's anything but typical. By early December two thousand,
(22:06):
the presidential election still hadn't been called. The Florida election
recount went all the way up to the Supreme Court.
Speaker 10 (22:14):
It is ended the election, literally one of the closest
elections in American history.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
On December twelfth, the highest court in the US ruled
to reverse the Florida Supreme Court order for a manual recount,
effectively ending the recount. It ruled that the recount violated
the equal Protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. This is
because there was no set standard for how to properly
count all ballots. So at last, over a month later,
(22:42):
there was a winner.
Speaker 10 (22:44):
Six hundred votes approximately separated the Gore and Bush in
the state of Florida, and now by one vote on
the Supreme Court, this election is over.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Remember the vote total was so narrow.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Kendall Coffee one of the lawyers for Elyon's Miami relatives.
He also happened to litigate the Supreme Court recount case
on the Gore side.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
Even if everything else had gone right with the election
and there are no other problems, the impact on Cuban
Democratic voters cost Gore the election.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
In the end, George W. Bush officially won by a
tiny margin in Florida, five hundred and thirty seven votes,
and that victory in Florida gave Bush the bare majority
he needed in the Electoral College to win the election,
even though he lost the national popular vote. Here's GAYD
(23:39):
Mr Grenier again.
Speaker 6 (23:41):
He probably will not find any smoking gun that says
that definitely Eleon costs the election. But yeah, Eli uncost
the election.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Whatever happened, I Looto Castillo seemed to be a success.
The Cuban American community had gotten its revenge Gore lost
and Bush became the forty third president of the United States.
Speaker 5 (24:08):
The presidency is more than an honor, It is more
than an office. It is a charge to keep, and
I will give it my all.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
From this election onward, Florida gained a reputation as the
quintessential swing state and would go on to become more
and more and more read Over half of Cuban Americans
in Florida voted Republican in twenty twenty. The two thousand
election results would have major lasting consequences for US politics
(24:40):
and for the world.
Speaker 5 (24:42):
The United States military has begun strikes against al Qaeda
terrorist training camps and military installations of the Taliban regime
in Afghanistan. These carefully target coalition forces have begun striking
selected targets of military importance to undermine Saddam Hussein's ability
to wage war. These rogans to abandon the Patriot Act
(25:03):
would deprive law enforcement and intelligence officers of needed tools
in the war on Terror and demonstrate willful blindness to
a continuing threat.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
So Alion's fate may have influenced years of American foreign
policy and political history, but as us back in Miami
(25:47):
this past spring, after Mayaulita watered her plants.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Flora Flora.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
I asked her about Alien, how does she think about
him now, so many years later. She would have liked
to see him grow up in the US, she said.
But then when I asked her about the issue about
Elian's return to Cuba, she really surprised me. She said
(26:20):
she thinks it was the right thing for him to
go with his father Ke, even if it meant going
back to Cuba. I was shocked. It has two sides.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Alian's mom died.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
She couldn't make choices about the.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Boy kiprox Superbarlo.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
So the dad was next in line, and he didn't
do anything wrong. He had every right as a father.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
She told me better.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I wasn't expecting my grandma to say all of this
as a first wave of Miami Cuban. I didn't think
she would move past the emotion of it all, that
she would be so clear eyed. It felt antithetical to
the hard lined exile way of thinking. Afterwards, I shared
this with my mom. She thought that him going back
(27:28):
to his dad was like the correct thing. I was
really surprised.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
I think that's interesting because that's not what she expressed
in the moment in the crisis, it was always, oh,
they should let him stay because his mom died trying
to bring him to freedom. But you know, as you
get older, you see things differently. Your perceptions kind of
change and soften and begin to see like the bigger
(27:54):
picture beyond.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
When I finally visited Cuba for the first time, I
began to understand the bigger picture too. At fifty six.
My mom had never been to Cuba either. She was
born in Miami less than a year after my grandma arrived,
and travel to Cuba used to be much more difficult
until twenty sixteen when President Obama loosened some travel restrictions
(28:25):
and I wanted to go, but the idea of going
to Cuba is so fraught for many Cuban Americans. For us,
it was weighed down by all this family history, and
so we waited. We waited so long we thought we
had missed our chance because under President Trump, many of
Obama's Cuba policies were reversed. But luckily we realized we
(28:50):
could still go on a quote family visit. So finally
in twenty nineteen, I found myself in Havana with my
mom and Sisterawita Lavi could have joined us on the
trip too, she decided.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Not to Joash.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
She wasn't ready and she still doesn't feel ready to
go back to have her memories be replaced by the
current reality. But she's glad we went.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Eropian Saparte the me Historia.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
It was a good experience for us because it helped
us understand that part of her story. She says. On
our trip to Cuba, we were able to meet the
family we have on the island, Maya Alita's cousins. We
spent Christmas with them on Baradedo Beach. This is the
resort town about fifteen miles from Gardanas, where both Alien
(29:45):
and Maya Alita Lai are from. One of the many
coincidences we've come across in reporting this story. The trip
was beautiful and magical and surreal. When we were saying
our goodbyes, I hugged and thanked one of our cousins
who I had grown close to. I told her how
much I envied her stunning ocean front view. I shared
(30:07):
this story with my grandma.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Si per Oh.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
My cousin's response, I would give it all up for
what you have. She went on to say that I
was lucky. I could visit Cuba, live in the US, Colombia,
anywhere I was free to choose, free to ask difficult questions,
even about my own family.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Ai Yo.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Sometimes wonders what would have happened if she had stayed
in Cuba. What would have become of her.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Daughters sevan revolution.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Would they have worked for the government or been counter revolutionaries,
or would they have drowned in the Florida streets trying
to get to Miamimilianilian, like Alian's mom who died with
her convictions. My grandma says.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
You suba.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Alita that he tells me she travels to Cuba too,
in her own way, in her sleep.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Concenando.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
She's in her old kitchen in Cuba, cooking. No time
has passed since she told me that. I've been wondering
about her dreams for me. I wonder if she's surprised
by how I turned out non traditional, a bit nomadic queer,
and tattooed someone with a pretty different worldview. But if
(32:20):
these things have surprised her, She's never expressed it. Instead,
she tells me how proud she is.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Tu tere jum futuro Briti.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
She may belong to a group that stereotyped, blamed, and vilified,
in particular for potentially swaying the two thousand election results.
But Mayamalita Lali and others like her are so much
more complex than that. She's someone who was uprooted and
had to start over from nothing, someone who loves her community,
(32:55):
but who, as she's gotten older, has formed her own opinions.
Someone who will always talk to her plants and call
me Dashi Duli.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah, but get to hear the characle ahorn me beating
your shuyne.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Someone who would rather keep returning to Cuba in her dreams.
Next week, Honey takes back the mic Elean receives a
(33:36):
heroes welcome in Cuba and he meets Fidel Castro for
the first time and through the years they become quite close.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
The only god he believed in it was Fidel.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Chess Piece. The Inian Gonzale Story is a production of
Futuro Studios in partnership with Iheart's Make Ultura podcast network.
This show is written and reported by me Tasha san
Looa with Benide Remidez, Maria Garcia, and Nicole Rothwell. Our
editor is Maria Garcia. Additional editing by Marlon Visha. Our
(34:31):
senior producer is Nicole Rothwell. Our associate producers are Me
Tasha Sanloan and Elizabeth Lowenthal Thorers. Sound designed by Jacob
Rizzatti with help from JJ Carubin. Our intern is Evelyn
Fajardo Albrees. Our senior production manager is Jessica Ellis, with
production support from Nancy Trujuijo and Francis Poun. Mixing by
(34:53):
Stephanie LeBeau, Julia Carriso and JJ Carubin. Back checking by
Media about Gista, scoring, a musical curation by Jacob Rizzotti
and Stephanie Lebau, and credits music from Rosa Chios. Our
executive producers are Marlon Bishop and Maria Garcia. Legal review
by Neil Rossini. Futuro Media was founded by Maria Ininojosa.
(35:17):
This episode was recorded at White Lemon Studios in Bogota, Colombia.
For more podcasts, listen to the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. I'm Pasha Sandled.
Thanks for listening.
Ooh, hi there. I'm Tasha Sanload, a producer for this series.
You might remember me from those long days of reporting
and eating fasilitos with Penny in Miami.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
So I'm going to try to carlas Facilito writer.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
It's giving toaster Strudel vibes like it has those holes.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
This want is really good, but I really liked more
than one yesterday, and.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
They're just warm and delicious. I'm going to take the
mic for this episode to tell you about a very
critical moment in this story and how it relates to
my family. Let's start in June two thousand, when Elean
went back to Cuba. It was just four months before
the two thousand presidential election. Vice President Al Gore led
the Democratic ticket.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
I think his point now is to ensure the prosperity
and riches Allmark families, not just a cute.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
While Texas Governor George W. Bush, the son of a
former president, led the Republican ticket.
Speaker 5 (01:03):
We should help people live their lives, but not run them.
I'm asking for your vote.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
The two candidates had different approaches to the usual issues
foreign policy, social security, energy, and the environment, but there
was a central question how to restore integrity and honor
to the White House after Bill Clinton's affair. Every election
is defining, but this one was seemingly higher stakes. If
(01:30):
Bush won, the election, results could usher in a new
era of conservative politics, a foreshadowing even on the overturning
of Roe v. Wade.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
This is a very important issue because a lot of
young women in this country take this right for granted,
and it could be lost. It is on the ballot
in this election, making no mistake of it.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
I'll tell you what kind of judges he'll put on there.
He'll put liberal activist judges who will use their bench
to subvert the legislature. That's what he'll do.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Kept mounting. For Miami Cubans, the memory of the raid
and Eleon's return to Cuba was still fresh, and it
affected the way the community approached the election. They expressed
outrage they felt betrayed by President Clinton and the Democrats
who had allowed Eleon to go back to Cuba to
(02:23):
become a trophy for Fidel Castro's revolution. Influential channels, including
popular radio station Rajomanbi, called on the Cuban American community
to turn their anger into action at the voting booth.
It was called Eloto castigo, the punishment vote. Here's Cuban
(02:44):
American historian Ada Ferrier.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
They blamed Clinton, they blamed Janet Reno, and Gore was
Clinton's vice president.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Gore was reluctant to break with his party's stance on
the Eleion case, but on the campaign trail he did
express his for leaving the decision to the family courts.
Here's Gore in an April campaign speech, reiterating what he
said during a January Iowa debate.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
This whole thing ought to be decided on the basis
of that standard, what is in the best entrance of
the child.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
The media characterized gore stands as inconsistent, and Bush called
Gore out for foot flopping on the issue.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
I am concerned that Al Gore's sudden change of position
yesterday may have had more to do with the vice
president's political interests than with the best interests of Alian Gonzales.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
And the thing is, by election day, people believed that
the results would come down to the electoral votes in
the swing state of Florida, where Cuban American voters were
still fresh off the Elian case. Recently, I was talking
about that election with my Cuban grandma who lives in Miami.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yo, my awlitadab Yes, Mediocon.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
It was like being stabbed in the back, she says.
He like giving Cuba a precious treasure. Elyen, My grandma
is part of the first wave of Cuban exiles, the
Golden Exiles. These are Cubans who left the island between
(04:23):
nineteen fifty nine and nineteen sixty two, right after the revolution.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Europian Republicanoctoria Republican Cubans are a Republican, she tells me,
matter of factly, in an attempt to support staunch opposition
to communism in Cuba.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Many exiles que to the American right politically, and in
my experience, in some liberal and progressive spaces, Cuban Americans
are sometimes painted as the boogeyman, the exception to a
perceived democratic Latinian monolith. But Latino Republicanism can be found elsewhere,
far beyond Cuban Miami. They're actually more Latina Republicans in
(05:02):
Arizona than there are in Florida. It's specifically Cuban Americans, though,
who seem to have a reputation as the political odd
man out. I bet you've seen the memes Selena Kinanida
as Latins in the US, her murderer sad as Cuban Americans.
(05:25):
Cuban Americans are vilified internationally too. My dad's side is Colombian,
so I grew up visiting family in Boada. While visiting
the Ni Naal in my twenties, I was shocked to
find a giant mural of Cheguada dominating the central plaza.
(05:48):
I realized that for most of the Latin American left,
Cuba is long seen as a kind of utopia. It's
the revolution that succeeded that seemed to triumph over us imperially. Then,
when traveling in Europe after college, some French backpackers told
me my grandparents were the problem. They were the self
(06:10):
serving land owning elites who had abandoned the revolution. Though
I defended my grandparents at that moment, these comments done
because I love my Grandma Morena, and I love Cuban Miami.
(06:33):
Oh this is when it sends here. I know it's
not as simple as those who left and those who
stayed in Cuba as good and bad, right and wrong.
I also care about the Alian story. I remember staying
with my grandma one weekend during that time, seeing Cuban
(06:56):
flags all over the place, wondering what was going on.
Even though I was only eight years old, I understood
that something big was happening. So to continue to tell
you about Elian and about the election that followed, I'm
going to tell you about my grandma, the story of
a woman in her eighties from a group I feel
is often misunderstood. I'm also going to tell you about
(07:19):
one of the most highly contested presidential elections in US history,
to clarify and complicate how it's all connected and how
it's possible that one little boy's bait changed US politics forever.
I'm Tasha Sanlol and this is Chess Piece. The Ilian
(07:40):
Gonsale Story a production of Fututo Studios in partnership with
Iheart's Mike and Guda podcast Network. As we explained in
(08:06):
episode five, Alan was taken from the Little Havanah home
through the federal government raid. This was late April two thousand.
Cuban Americans had until November seventh, election day to coalesce
against the Democrats. Through El Voto Castigo. Voters expressed their concerns, I.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
Used to be a Democrat up to the time of
the Lean Gonzalez incident. And I believe that our government,
the United acting the best interest of all Americans.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
I know. Mayawa Liita Ais said Cuban Americans are typically Republican,
but that hasn't always been a foregone conclusion. In nineteen
ninety six, when he was re elected, Bill Clinton won Florida, but.
Speaker 6 (08:45):
He got more Cuban American votes than any other Democrat before.
He was a Democrat that Cubans supporting.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Gillermo Grenier Cuban American sociologists who we heard from earlier
in the series. His area of expertise is Cuban American
identity and ideology. It's difficult to verify if Clinton got
more Cuban American votes than any other Democrat ever, but
he was certainly more popular than Democrats had been among
(09:12):
Cuban Americans during the Reagan and Bush years. You see,
Cubans weren't Republicans by default. In a twenty twenty one article,
Giedmo highlighted a Miami Herald analysis of the nineteen sixty
eight presidential election. According to Guilledmo, it shows that Cubans
who had already become citizens were splitting the vote pretty
(09:32):
evenly between the two parties. Then, in the nineteen seventy
six presidential election, Jimmy Carter, a Democrat, won about seventy
five percent of the Cuban vote. But in the eighties,
the Republican Party started to strategically court Cuban Americans.
Speaker 6 (09:51):
They serviced the community. The Cubans became Republicans because the
Republican Party nurtured them.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
In the next presidential election, just four years later, eighty
six percent of Cuban American voters in Dade County voted
for Republican candidate Ronald Reagan. President Reagan's anti castro and
anti communist foreign policy initiatives were popular in Miami, but
some continued to vote for the Democrats.
Speaker 6 (10:18):
Bill Clinton had kind of mended enough of the framework
so that Cubans were not automatically going to vote Republican.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
In nineteen ninety six, President Clinton signed the Helms Burton Act,
a piece of legislation that enforced the economic embargo against
the Cuban government. He ended up winning Miami Dade County
by a significant margin, so in two thousand there was
a chance that Gore could do the same.
Speaker 6 (10:45):
Gore turned himself inside out trying to appease the Cuban
American community on eliankicks.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
But after the raid, those chances of winning the Cuban
American vote seemed to diminish. The damage was Ellion's great
uncle in Miami, las Aro Gonzalez, even went on Spanish
language radio urging his fellow Miami Cubans to vote against Gore.
With Ilvoto Castigo, the exile community rallied together.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
People blame the Democrat for sending Alien back.
Speaker 6 (11:17):
Even Cuban Democrats that otherwise would have voted for a
Democratic candidate punished whether vote. They kind of said, all right,
this was the Democrats doing, and we're going to vote Republican.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
So was Ilboto Castigo successful. It would take not hours,
not days, not weeks, but over a month after election
night to find out once and for all, because this
wasn't just any election. At seven forty nine on election night,
NBC was the first network to call Florida for Gore.
Speaker 7 (11:58):
We're going to now for check an important win for
Vice President Al Gore. NBC News for checks that he
wins the twenty five electoral votes in the state of.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Florida, but they soon took it back all.
Speaker 7 (12:09):
Right, we're officially saying that Florida is too close to
call because of a recall.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
In the wee hours on election night, Gore called Bush
to concede.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
We are told the Vice President will concede the election
in his brief remarks here tonight.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
But then, in an unprecedented move, Gore recanted his concession
because he hadn't officially lost.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
People around the country awoke.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Today to find yesterday's presidential election is still too close
to call. The world seemed to stop. There was a
recount in Florida, a recount that would expose faulty ad
hoc election systems in the United States.
Speaker 8 (12:51):
Vote o medic machines and conflicting rules about ballots and
fuzzy rules about what is a vote.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
There was no uniform ballot across the country or across
the state of Florida, and there was a particular problem,
including in Miami Dade County. Some voting machines had an
old school punch card system. If the machine didn't punch
a ballot all the way through, that vote wasn't counted.
The remaining pieces of paper came to be known as chads.
(13:27):
You might remember this hanging chads pregnant chads. So to Democrats,
this seemed to prove that there were many uncounted votes
for Al Gore.
Speaker 9 (13:37):
The so called pregnant or dimpled ballots. Do they show
voters intent to select Gore, as Democrats claim, or are
they simply an indentation on the ballot from an indecisive
voter as Republicans claim.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
There were also so called butterfly ballots, which led some
voters to accidentally vote for a third party candidate.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
Thirty five hundred people did not vote.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
If you can it come on this heavily democratic Homage county.
All eyes were on Florida and especially on Miami Dade County.
So would Cuban Miami get its revenge?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
M plant?
Speaker 1 (14:49):
My grandma loves her plants American. They're her companions. She
says they talked to her and say thank you, and
so she talks to them, help them grow.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yaeta.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
When I stay with her, she makes me her expert Cubano.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
It natasa roma mm hmm perfect.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
My grandma's name is Yosada de los Angeles translation God
Given of the Angels. She goes by Daddy, so I
call her a Wilita daddi, and she has a nickname
for me too, Masta no.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Sashi. Really, come Onita, thatshi.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Really, it doesn't mean anything, she says, It's just cute,
like a small Tasha. As she's gotten older, I've noticed
Mayita really lose her filter.
Speaker 9 (16:05):
She says.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Whatever she's thinking, wissi ak. As she pointed to our
family photos in her living room. She described us as
her zoo. But she still insists that she's quiet and shai.
She also says she's never been very political. She's just
(16:26):
gone with the tide.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Your matava concentra babys.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
When she first got to this country, she was too
busy raising her family to be political, she says. But
there was a time when she was more tapped into
politics in the nineteen fifties in Cuba.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Is sur.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Ailita says that by the time Batista, Cuba's dictator before Castro,
had been in power for five years, she and her
peers were hoping for a revolution.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Han Tekhoven she.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
At first they cheered on castro.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
Resign board bloodshed and fled. His departure touched off while
rejoicing in the capitol.
Speaker 6 (17:18):
As the first element of rebel forces entered nevana.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Eva abbera kova democratica.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
They hoped that Castro could deliver on the promise of
a free and democratic Cuba in also sidio, but she
says that didn't happen. I'd never heard this part of
the story. It never occurred to me that there was
a time when my grandma could have had any admiration
for Castro, because I've only usually heard the second part
(17:51):
of the story what happened after Fidel Castro took over.
My grandparents left Cuba in nineteen six two because my
great grandfather said it was time for them.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
To go initial surhio ye ya kia de Cuba keyota
a completamenttin.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
So Awalita Lali did as she was told, with my
grandfather and their one year old baby. She got on
a flight to Miami, back when there were still commercial
flights leaving the island. But Davi was sure she'd be
back and soon in a couple of months.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Even yode he documente la veta princan.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
And said, missus, she left important documents and paperwork in
her dust drawer. But Ami Casita am of course, she
was going to return to Cuba, to her home, to
her cositas her things, but she would never return home
(18:57):
ever again. There would be very little to go home too,
because meanwhile in Cuba, one day, Dali's brother, who had
stayed behind, drove up to the family dairy farm.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Well I think Io the Lecheria, and there were men
guarding the entrance. Gio and Schoeta e aviendoda.
Speaker 7 (19:30):
Hero.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
This isn't yours anymore. You can't come in. The men said,
this belongs to the revolution, and so her brother wasn't
allowed in. Remember the revolutionary government confiscated land from Cubans
(19:57):
who held more than a thousand acres. This fact is
often brought up in the abstract as something the revolution
did to redistribute wealth. And I get the principle it
was part of a plan to create greater economic equality
on an island that was deeply unequal. But I want
you to think about what this actually looks like on
a personal level. A soldier shows up at your door
(20:20):
and doesn't let you back in ever again. It's something
that after more than six decades, Mayamita Lali still mourns.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Maybe that Kei is otos de may know a Santaios.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
At eighty seven, she's been in the US since nineteen
sixty two.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Gelo aya mimente aseal or really sal.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
But she says she still hasn't fully realized or accepted
that her life is here. And so it's this feeling
of uprootedness, the essence of exile that informs everything in
her life, from the mundane, a loyalty to a specific
coffee brand, belong to the consequential, a particular sway in politics.
(21:15):
Mayamalita seemingly ticks all the boxes expectations of what a
Cuban American woman in her eighties might think and feel.
But she would go on to tell me something about
Ilian that's anything but typical. By early December two thousand,
(22:06):
the presidential election still hadn't been called. The Florida election
recount went all the way up to the Supreme Court.
Speaker 10 (22:14):
It is ended the election, literally one of the closest
elections in American history.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
On December twelfth, the highest court in the US ruled
to reverse the Florida Supreme Court order for a manual recount,
effectively ending the recount. It ruled that the recount violated
the equal Protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. This is
because there was no set standard for how to properly
count all ballots. So at last, over a month later,
(22:42):
there was a winner.
Speaker 10 (22:44):
Six hundred votes approximately separated the Gore and Bush in
the state of Florida, and now by one vote on
the Supreme Court, this election is over.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Remember the vote total was so narrow.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Kendall Coffee one of the lawyers for Elyon's Miami relatives.
He also happened to litigate the Supreme Court recount case
on the Gore side.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
Even if everything else had gone right with the election
and there are no other problems, the impact on Cuban
Democratic voters cost Gore the election.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
In the end, George W. Bush officially won by a
tiny margin in Florida, five hundred and thirty seven votes,
and that victory in Florida gave Bush the bare majority
he needed in the Electoral College to win the election,
even though he lost the national popular vote. Here's GAYD
(23:39):
Mr Grenier again.
Speaker 6 (23:41):
He probably will not find any smoking gun that says
that definitely Eleon costs the election. But yeah, Eli uncost
the election.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Whatever happened, I Looto Castillo seemed to be a success.
The Cuban American community had gotten its revenge Gore lost
and Bush became the forty third president of the United States.
Speaker 5 (24:08):
The presidency is more than an honor, It is more
than an office. It is a charge to keep, and
I will give it my all.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
From this election onward, Florida gained a reputation as the
quintessential swing state and would go on to become more
and more and more read Over half of Cuban Americans
in Florida voted Republican in twenty twenty. The two thousand
election results would have major lasting consequences for US politics
(24:40):
and for the world.
Speaker 5 (24:42):
The United States military has begun strikes against al Qaeda
terrorist training camps and military installations of the Taliban regime
in Afghanistan. These carefully target coalition forces have begun striking
selected targets of military importance to undermine Saddam Hussein's ability
to wage war. These rogans to abandon the Patriot Act
(25:03):
would deprive law enforcement and intelligence officers of needed tools
in the war on Terror and demonstrate willful blindness to
a continuing threat.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
So Alion's fate may have influenced years of American foreign
policy and political history, but as us back in Miami
(25:47):
this past spring, after Mayaulita watered her plants.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Flora Flora.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
I asked her about Alien, how does she think about
him now, so many years later. She would have liked
to see him grow up in the US, she said.
But then when I asked her about the issue about
Elian's return to Cuba, she really surprised me. She said
(26:20):
she thinks it was the right thing for him to
go with his father Ke, even if it meant going
back to Cuba. I was shocked. It has two sides.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Alian's mom died.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
She couldn't make choices about the.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Boy kiprox Superbarlo.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
So the dad was next in line, and he didn't
do anything wrong. He had every right as a father.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
She told me better.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I wasn't expecting my grandma to say all of this
as a first wave of Miami Cuban. I didn't think
she would move past the emotion of it all, that
she would be so clear eyed. It felt antithetical to
the hard lined exile way of thinking. Afterwards, I shared
this with my mom. She thought that him going back
(27:28):
to his dad was like the correct thing. I was
really surprised.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
I think that's interesting because that's not what she expressed
in the moment in the crisis, it was always, oh,
they should let him stay because his mom died trying
to bring him to freedom. But you know, as you
get older, you see things differently. Your perceptions kind of
change and soften and begin to see like the bigger
(27:54):
picture beyond.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
When I finally visited Cuba for the first time, I
began to understand the bigger picture too. At fifty six.
My mom had never been to Cuba either. She was
born in Miami less than a year after my grandma arrived,
and travel to Cuba used to be much more difficult
until twenty sixteen when President Obama loosened some travel restrictions
(28:25):
and I wanted to go, but the idea of going
to Cuba is so fraught for many Cuban Americans. For us,
it was weighed down by all this family history, and
so we waited. We waited so long we thought we
had missed our chance because under President Trump, many of
Obama's Cuba policies were reversed. But luckily we realized we
(28:50):
could still go on a quote family visit. So finally
in twenty nineteen, I found myself in Havana with my
mom and Sisterawita Lavi could have joined us on the
trip too, she decided.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Not to Joash.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
She wasn't ready and she still doesn't feel ready to
go back to have her memories be replaced by the
current reality. But she's glad we went.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Eropian Saparte the me Historia.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
It was a good experience for us because it helped
us understand that part of her story. She says. On
our trip to Cuba, we were able to meet the
family we have on the island, Maya Alita's cousins. We
spent Christmas with them on Baradedo Beach. This is the
resort town about fifteen miles from Gardanas, where both Alien
(29:45):
and Maya Alita Lai are from. One of the many
coincidences we've come across in reporting this story. The trip
was beautiful and magical and surreal. When we were saying
our goodbyes, I hugged and thanked one of our cousins
who I had grown close to. I told her how
much I envied her stunning ocean front view. I shared
(30:07):
this story with my grandma.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Si per Oh.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
My cousin's response, I would give it all up for
what you have. She went on to say that I
was lucky. I could visit Cuba, live in the US, Colombia,
anywhere I was free to choose, free to ask difficult questions,
even about my own family.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Ai Yo.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Sometimes wonders what would have happened if she had stayed
in Cuba. What would have become of her.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Daughters sevan revolution.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Would they have worked for the government or been counter revolutionaries,
or would they have drowned in the Florida streets trying
to get to Miamimilianilian, like Alian's mom who died with
her convictions. My grandma says.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
You suba.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Alita that he tells me she travels to Cuba too,
in her own way, in her sleep.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Concenando.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
She's in her old kitchen in Cuba, cooking. No time
has passed since she told me that. I've been wondering
about her dreams for me. I wonder if she's surprised
by how I turned out non traditional, a bit nomadic queer,
and tattooed someone with a pretty different worldview. But if
(32:20):
these things have surprised her, She's never expressed it. Instead,
she tells me how proud she is.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Tu tere jum futuro Briti.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
She may belong to a group that stereotyped, blamed, and vilified,
in particular for potentially swaying the two thousand election results.
But Mayamalita Lali and others like her are so much
more complex than that. She's someone who was uprooted and
had to start over from nothing, someone who loves her community,
(32:55):
but who, as she's gotten older, has formed her own opinions.
Someone who will always talk to her plants and call
me Dashi Duli.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah, but get to hear the characle ahorn me beating
your shuyne.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Someone who would rather keep returning to Cuba in her dreams.
Next week, Honey takes back the mic Elean receives a
(33:36):
heroes welcome in Cuba and he meets Fidel Castro for
the first time and through the years they become quite close.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
The only god he believed in it was Fidel.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Chess Piece. The Inian Gonzale Story is a production of
Futuro Studios in partnership with Iheart's Make Ultura podcast network.
This show is written and reported by me Tasha san
Looa with Benide Remidez, Maria Garcia, and Nicole Rothwell. Our
editor is Maria Garcia. Additional editing by Marlon Visha. Our
(34:31):
senior producer is Nicole Rothwell. Our associate producers are Me
Tasha Sanloan and Elizabeth Lowenthal Thorers. Sound designed by Jacob
Rizzatti with help from JJ Carubin. Our intern is Evelyn
Fajardo Albrees. Our senior production manager is Jessica Ellis, with
production support from Nancy Trujuijo and Francis Poun. Mixing by
(34:53):
Stephanie LeBeau, Julia Carriso and JJ Carubin. Back checking by
Media about Gista, scoring, a musical curation by Jacob Rizzotti
and Stephanie Lebau, and credits music from Rosa Chios. Our
executive producers are Marlon Bishop and Maria Garcia. Legal review
by Neil Rossini. Futuro Media was founded by Maria Ininojosa.
(35:17):
This episode was recorded at White Lemon Studios in Bogota, Colombia.
For more podcasts, listen to the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. I'm Pasha Sandled.
Thanks for listening.
Host
Peniley Ramírez
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