July 12, 2022 • 29 mins
Strap on your parachute and jump in to the first of our Red Bull two-parter. On today's episode, Lily and her crew of guests take Michael on a journey to give him wiiings — and by that, we mean tell him the interesting history of the Red Bull energy drink company as well as the F1 team. We'll also meet two very well-known shit stirrers in the Formula 1 paddock by the names of Christian Horner and Helmut Marko. Bonus: There may or may not be a Spice Girl involved in this operation.
Special thanks to our guests: Jennie Gow, Toni Cowan-Brown, Aldas Kavaliauskas, Josh Revell, and Sarah Levenson.
This episode was produced by Lily Herman and Senior Producer Yochai Maital. Sound Design by Yochai Maital. Mastering by Sela Waisblum. Recording at The Cutting Room Studios by Rob O'Leary II. At SI Studios, Max Miller is Executive Producer and Brannan Goetschius is Head of Audio. At iHeartRadio, Sean Titone is Executive Producer.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh m oh, my god, there's a dog. Hello, Hello, Hello,
hello dog. It's Walter. He's shy, he's grumpy. He's only
bit one person and it was a six year old
boy who hit him in the head at a toy star.
So I figured tracks makes sense. I too would hit
a six year old boy in the head, but he
(00:20):
does growl. Go to sleep, buddy, go to sleep. One. Two, Hey,
how's it going? Said? Sound good? All right, I guess
we're all set yo. Hi. So Michael, I'm very excited
to say that I have brought you a Red Bull
for this episode. I could see that, and I'm thankful
for it. All right, it's I guess first and foremost.
Let us uh, let us crack open. All right, So
(00:44):
this is Red Bull with touring. When Red Bull came out,
everyone kind of went, what the ship is that? So
you don't even remember this happening? So this is here
we got ready crack ready. Oh yeah, that was a
little correct. Is this what it sounds like when they
start their car engines? From I Heeart Media and Sports
(01:06):
Illustrated Studios, this is choosing sides one. Wow, Michael, can
you guess who we're talking about today? Red Ball. Sorry,
(01:28):
it's Ferrari's day. Williams, Williams, I love who. You still
don't know what Williams is. You just know Williams comes.
I like their colors, That's true, They're very class. I
like their colors. So maybe that's and maybe what we're
going to find through all of this extensive research by
you and all the other researching producers is that dumb
Michael just wants cool colors, which is why probably how
(01:51):
we all pick a lot of our teams. All right,
So our last two episodes we were all about Mercedes,
you know, the team of hyper efficiency. There this now
actual extension from a luxury car brand. Today we're kind
of going in the opposite direction. So let's talk about
Red Bull. So that was Jenny Gal, prominent f one
reporter for the BBC and other outlets. They are basically
(02:14):
a drinking team because Red Bull gives you wings. Everybody
knows it's a you know, it's a drink. Red Bull
is a is a very different team to Mercedes. Mercedes
is a global automotive brand who were only interested in
selling cars off the back of winning world championships. That's
kind of what they do, whereas Red Bull are there
(02:34):
as a marketing exercise for Dietrict Matter Ships and his
Red Bull Drinks company. Before we get to Red Bull
in Formula one, we have to get a little bit
of a history lesson in Red Bull Dietrich Matter Ships.
Who owns Red Bull um is kind of quite an enigma.
He very rarely turns up to an F one race.
(02:54):
He's not They're kind of cheering on from the sidelines,
like a lot of the owners that we seem of
any sports team. He's very much in the background. He
actually has said he prefers to watch races on TV,
which is the most rich person thing to spend hundreds
of millions of dollars on something and not even be
there in person to see it. Often he's very much
(03:16):
in the background. But it was a marketing exercise first
and foremost for them to get into Formula one. It's
been relatively successful as well. I hear they sell some things.
So I'm going to sound a little bit like I'm
a Harvard NBA student for just like a couple of minutes,
so bear with me. I'm curious to learn about the company.
To be honest with you, I have no fucking clue
(03:38):
how I was introduced to red Bull excellent. So the
company was founded in the form that we know it
inn by this Austrian guy named Diedrich Mattas shits quite
a name. What a surprise, another very rich, old white
guy exactly yeah. Uh. Diedrich is a billionaire, which means
(03:59):
that he has said some controversial things in his life.
More recently, in seen, he said that Austria should close
its borders to refugees and express support for Donald Trump.
This was during Trump's presidency, which obviously makes both of
those things make people feel lots of things about our
(04:20):
dear Dietrich. They don't vitalize, They do not vitalize. Okay,
So moving on to red Bull to Drink. D trip
didat actually create Red Bull to Drink? Red Bull to
Drink was actually created in the mid nineteen seventies by
a guy named Chilea Vedia. He has this idea because
he comes from a farming family that he wants to
(04:42):
create something that gives a little extra pep when folks
are feeling tired. And he really wanted to create something
for the working class, for farmers, for bus drivers, for
taxi drivers. Really a man of the people. This Chileo,
and he creates a drink called creating Dang. In Thailand,
it means red bull, so he comes up with the
(05:03):
idea of red Bull. He puts it in medicine looking bottles,
so it looks like almost a prescription. But even though
it's a thing you can just buy at the store.
And yeah, what really separated it from other kind of
drinks in general at the time was that it was
really catering towards a working class market. That was sort
of his his whole thing. Ud Trick on a business
(05:24):
trip discovers this drink and he has it when he's
really tired and just trying to fly home or do whatever,
and he thinks it's genius. He wants to bring it
over to the West because he thinks there's a huge market.
And keep in mind, by this time and you know,
the seventies and eighties, there's there's not really an energy
drink market. That's not really a thing that you create
(05:45):
that and it was really bad coffee exactly. Yeah. The
other thing he did when he brought it over to
the West is he tweaked to the formula so there
is more sugar. There's actually thirty three percent more caffeine
in like this original European version and the version that
we see today in the States. Then the original drink.
He also adds carbonation to it, which was new, so
(06:05):
it really seems yet less and less like a medicinal
thing and more like what we see today. He added
the new you know, packaging and the logo and all
of this stuff. Just for a slight economic detour. Red
Bull does still hold thirty eight percent of the market
share of energy drinks, so it's the most popular energy
drink on the planet and it has sold over seventy
(06:25):
five billion cans since. What a success story. My God,
does fascinate me that that that we think as humans
are were so stimulated in life as it is. And
this of course makes sense because what we really need
is a drink to calm us down, but instead the
market wants a drink that keeps us going. We're always
(06:47):
on that hamster wheel of life and I'm drinking it
right now. Yeah. So the other big thing that Dietrich
brings to the table is he's a big, long time
I'm you know, lifelong sports fan. He loves sports. He's
trying to figure out how to market this drink in
a brand new space. People don't drink energy drinks, so
(07:10):
so what does he do? He has this great idea
that their biggest tactic is going to be aligning the
company with extreme sports and extreme physical and athletic feats.
All right, stand up on the exterior step, keep your
head down and going to an angel will take care. Yet,
they sponsored a daredevil named Felix bomb Gardner who went
(07:31):
skydiving from space. Yeah, it was that whole big thing.
They put them up in this little capsule twenty miles
above earth and then he free fell and then parachuted.
Can anybody understand? You see if you can get a
respiratory count? And Red Bull was everywhere. It was absolutely ever.
(07:52):
They did films on it, they had all sorts of promo.
It was truly everywhere. They also have sponsored humorous bass jumpers,
so they'll say, hey, jump out of this high thing
and then fly through this tiny crack in a cliff
and hopefully you don't die, because that would be really
bad for our stunt. Uh. They have had time. They
(08:13):
had a stunt where they had pilot's attempt to switch
planes midair. They also had a guy break the world
record in snowmobile jumping, that's you name it. If it's
an extreme sport or just kind of an absurd feat,
red Bull probably is sponsoring it or at least has
(08:34):
a hand in it. The list goes on and on
with red Bull. What is red Bull going for here? Like,
what is the what is this branding? But I guess
in the market filled with drink, you've got to break
through somehow, you gotta get eyeballs on you, and they
have done that. Yeah, So the big question is how
(08:55):
does Red Bull end up owning teams on the Formula
One grid and becoming this big successful teams. So it
is similar to how Mercedes was kind of supplying things
to teams that were already on the grid long before
they themselves joined. Red Bull was a sponsor before they
joined in the mid two thousand's and they decided to
start looking into a team and at the end of
(09:18):
the two thousand four season they purchased an F one
team at the time it was Jaguar and start building
it up for the two thousand five season. We'll get
into more of the team history after this break. We've
got to sell some ads. Remember how we talked about
with Mercedes, how they would kind of supply their their
various stuff to other teams. That's what basically a Red
(09:39):
Bull has to do is buy all these different car parts,
you know, the power unit, the chassis, all this stuff
from other manufacturers to kind of build up this this car.
Uh and they do. You know, like most teams, it
takes a little while to get going, but they really
hit their strides starting in season and they proceed to
(10:00):
in four World championships, both Constructor and Driver's Championships for
realiant brilliant drive. If you joined the Great Yea Bowing
before the Bull, Sebastian Fetal World Champion in two thousand
(10:20):
and ten, eleven, twelve, and now thirteen Red Bull the
Constructors Championship is coming their way as well. Johnny McLaren
and Ferrari is the only constructors to win four consecutive
world titles. So obviously, I'm sure you're wondering, how does
a team that's just a couple of years into the
sports suddenly win four world championships. Yeah, I mean, isn't
(10:42):
that what everybody wants to do? But it's that's very
difficult exactly. Again, speaking to the culture, they were very
good at poaching people, and one of the people they
poached was this genius engineer named Adrian Newey. You hear
Nui's name kind of come up a lot, especially amongst
kind of like tech nerds who love the technical aspects
of one. So Adrian Newey he has basically want or created,
(11:07):
you know, world championship winning cars for multiple teams over
the years, whether it's Williams, McLaren, Red Bull, you name it,
he's he's somehow involved. His big thing is he's great
at aerodynamics and he is great at going into the
regulations and figure out every loophole, every way to skirt
around what's been assigned for for the cars. He's a
(11:31):
real nerd in that way. He's talked about loving reading
the regulation book and reading through the rules and then
he finds kind of funky, weird ways to to get
around that. So that's kind of his deal and Red Bull,
you know, kind of snatched him up and and it
really helped them sort of in the end of that era,
figure out what was going to work best for them.
So so that that's kind of some of Red Bulls
(11:53):
secret sauce or special sauce if you will, is Adrian
Newey Uh, it does seem like the tech side are
the other stars, but you don't see them plastered on
the cans and the and the and the TV as
much well within within F one. And I will say that,
unlike Mercedes, which has been truly dominant for you know,
(12:15):
most of those eight years that they were, they were
really in it to win it and winning everything, Red
Bull is a little bit touch and go. So actually
two of these four championships they win by mere points.
I'm talking two to four points for SEB over. The
second place finisher in both cases was this guy Fernando Alonso,
who we will also talk about uh this season. And
I think what's also important to note with SEB and
(12:36):
with with Red Bullies, they were not quiet about their wins. Right.
So seb for instance, when he won one of the
World championships, finishes up the race and starts doing donuts
in his F one car, I wonder how much that
will cost him it finds, but it's probably worth it.
And that's not common in Formula one because NASCAR, that's
all day long, you have teams do stuff with their cars,
(12:59):
but Red Bull take it to another level. So they
for instance, they had two cars they fitted them with
these like pieces on the front to make them quote
unquote play rugby against each other so you can see
the two cars you've got. They put like special like
chains on the tires and drove across the tundra basically. Uh.
(13:22):
And then they also, yeah, like do kinds of zero
gravity stuff with their cars, right, And everything is well documented,
of course, well photographed, well posted. I mean, you know,
it's marketing. Red Bull has this branding of extreme. You're
not going to see Mercedes playing rugby with its car, right,
(13:43):
So I kind of get what they're going for. And uh,
and it definitely is a specific attitude. As a Formula
one team. I find them very aggressive. So that's Formula
one journalist Tony Cowen Brown when Bull follow this narrative
that men is this a boys club and these are men,
real men, and they don't cry and they scream and
they shout, which I'm like, that's so archaic to me
(14:04):
that it's just it's just not the way the world
is heading. But that's not to say that's bad. Some
people actually love that that sort of mentality of being
vious and unstoppable and unapologetic and you know, flipping table
great go for it. So that that's that's sort of
to paint a picture of how Red Bulls F one
team kind of you know, distinguishes itself. So, uh, red
(14:25):
Bulls on top of the world, you know, coming out
of as we know from our Mercedes episodes, there is
then a regulation shift that begins in Unfortunately for Red Bull,
Mercedes begins to really soar. They really hit their stride
after a couple of years of just getting up to
speed and Red Bulls starts to have some issues with consistency.
They also have issues with driver pairings and uh and
(14:48):
and it all just becomes a little bit rough for
for many years. Alright. So I think the most important
thing about Red Bull as a team is the culture there.
It's all about pressure, It's all about performing on the spot.
It's all about you either swim or you sink. So
my name is I'll Discover Auscas and I basically just
cover the world the Formula one Red Bull. They're a
(15:09):
very cut through team, no doubt about it. But that
competitive edge is ultimately what drives the entire team, you know,
That's what kind of motivates the guys around them. They
want to be younger, they want to be cooler, They
want to be hip, they want to have loud music
playing in the garage, they want to be the young
guns of F one. Yeah, it's a very different team
to Mercedes because when it comes to Mercedes, it's all
about working together and kind of really doing things by
(15:31):
the book, if that makes sense. Whilst with Red Bull
they're a bit more of a wild card. But that's
just what kind of makes them special. It's almost like
a pressure cooker within the pressure cooker of Formula one
as an outsider, and this is what perspective is helpful
because now maybe after seeing a little bit about the
Red Bull team, I have a different opinion about the
Mercedes team. But Red Bull doesn't to me, doesn't exude class,
(15:58):
maybe hyper masculine. We're happy to talk shipped to you
when an L costs type vibe. Not sure if that's accurate,
but that's my first takeaway on it. They're definitely I
would say a little bit grittier in terms of personality,
but I mean a red Bull. How much how much
does each Red Bull cost? I think these were one
like three dollars to fifty like that, and how much
(16:19):
of the Mercedes cost so it's like it does. It
might come down to that that that Red Bull does
need to be more power to the people type vibe,
which again is very funny considering its origin story. But
sure that De Trick loves loves the people, so I
think nothing better kind of exudes this whole pressure cooker
(16:42):
within a pressure cooker mentality at Red Bull than their
young driver program. They've always been very invested in young drivers.
They other teams, to be honest, most big teams like
Ferrari Mercedes, they don't just give a young driver, you know,
the keys to the kingdom and potentially a ce A
winning team unless they have a couple of years of
experience or even more in some cases. Red Bull is
(17:03):
not like that. They do not mind kind of throwing
a spanner into the works and giving a very young driver,
you know, a chance to win races, and that's kind
of been their philosophy. However, if that young driver doesn't perform,
there's been you know, the arm around the shoulder approach
does not last very long and they get cut, they
will sponsor a ton of young drivers, obviously almost entirely men, uh,
(17:25):
and they will give them the machinery so they'll say, hey,
we'll put you in a car, your Red Bull car
sponsored by Red Bull whatever, And that sounds really great,
right if you're like fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, your Red Bull
wants to sponsor you're you know, you're you're a little unproven,
but they're they're willing to give you a chance. Uh.
The big problem is that Red Bull also has no
problem dumping drivers very quickly, so they throw you in
(17:46):
a seat. If you're not doing well, within a couple
of races or a season, you're out of there. They're
known notoriously known for kind of signing people very quickly
and dropping them just as quickly. I think for that
of teams, they really try to push that the drivers
worked together as best as they can to get the
most points for the team. This is Sarah Levinson and
motorsports comms expert and F one super fan. Red Bull
(18:10):
is unique in which they are definitely more driven by
driver first team second. There has definitely always been a
history of really strong rivalry within the team. In the
past five years, there has been really one main driver,
which is Max for step In, and a myriad of
(18:30):
second drivers that they're kind of shifting in to see
who competes best alongside Max, but also who doesn't get
in his way. A lot of these those second drivers
for Red Bull, they only last a few months before
they're replaced. They know that they get one shot, one chance,
and if they don't perform immediately, then they don't get
to keep that shot. They don't need to keep that chance. Obviously,
(18:53):
that can create a lot of chaos and just a
lot of rivalry within the team for certain seats and
and also questions over who gets what. Wow. Okay. The
flip side of this is because they have so many
people and in and out or whatever is that they
(19:15):
do in fact find some great talent and many drivers
on the grid sometimes. I think at one point it
was as many as twelve out of twenty drivers had
their origin stories kind of infused with Red Bull. So
they are, in fact, you know, able to produce results.
But it's not because they mentor one kid at a
time or something. Okay, it kind of comes with pros
and cons uh, And we'll talk about two is the
(19:36):
issue of um some of the leadership is pretty mouthy
about what's going on with their drivers and and their
their Their leadership has no problem saying when they've got
an issue with their own drivers, which also is probably
not great for the psyche of young athletes, as you
can probably attest. Yeah, who's running the show at red Bull?
Who's the toto at Red Bull? And I'm sure he
would love to be described that way. I'm sure Christian
(19:59):
is going to just completely melt into a puddle comparison
through the podcast listening device, exactly exactly. So there's two
names that will typically pop up in F one media
when it comes to Red Bull. Unfortunately it's not Adrian Newey,
who is your high favorite person. Uh So the two
names are going to be Christian Horner. He is the
(20:20):
team principal, so he's number one. And the second name
we're going to hear a lot is Helmett Marco, who
is a former racing driver himself. He's an official advisor
to the team and he also runs their young driver's program,
so he's really in charge of finding the talent and
cultivating the talent and often also dumping the talent when
they are not doing well. Both are known for quite
(20:40):
a bit of ship stirring. But anyway, so let's start
with Christian. He's definitely one of the younger team principles
and was much younger when he first came on as
Red Bulls team principal. He's been there from pretty much
the beginning, how badly mixed things up? Of it with
a little bit of spice. J just spice to the exact.
A fun fact about him, He's married to Jerry how Well,
who many Gen xers and millennials will known as Ginger
(21:04):
Spice of the Spice Girls. You had teased that last time?
Check come Jerry Honah. From what I can see a Christian.
He he doesn't shy away from a camera, definitely does
not and always puts his own spin on things. Sure,
I think he's needs to see a psychiatrist personally. But
(21:25):
if you weren't an F one team boss, what would
you be? Um? I wanted to be a stunt driver
when I was younger, So um, maybe a bit of
modeling as well. You know, I don't need to go
to dinner with Toto. You know, I don't need to
kiss his ass or anything like that. You know what
it means in Mexico, You know what it means big.
There are people who really do like Christians whole stick,
(21:45):
and there are people who really don't. He did recently
say when asked about the rise and popularity of F one,
he said, oh, yes, you know, young girls are really
loving the sport for all of the you know, the
hot drivers is paraphrasing, but that was the sentiment, and
that did not go over well with a certain subset
of Formula one fans. What's an odd thing to say?
Which subset didn't like that? In a world of Christian horners,
(22:06):
BA Lewis Hamilton's that's Christian. He kind of stinks to
me of do as I say, not as I do.
Kind of stinks of like, hey, I I I placed last,
but here's what you have to do to place first.
That's why I've had some of these coaches or whatever
you call it. Keep in mind, I've known this guy
for six minutes. Yeah, that's Christian and Christians right hand
(22:30):
man Helmon Marco. Helmont Marco was a fantastic driver back
in the day. He raced Formula one. He won the
twenty four of lament Rice, one of the most difficult
races in the world, and he managed to still win that.
And now he manages the talent through Ripple and that's
fine because obviously he sort of knows the sport and
(22:53):
knows talent when he sees it. First and last name
Josh Rible and can you give me sort of your
who you are in the world of Formula one and motorsports? Jeez,
I guess um probably would proclaim myself as the informative
jester of Formula one YouTube, presenting things in a way
that is colloquial and somewhat demented at times. So Helmet
(23:18):
definitely is known for more than a few controversial statements.
A good afternoon with Helmett Marco is for him to
call you up after the races say that you're a
waste of life. And that's how he tends to motivate
his drivers. He's um, he's like that, He's he's an US.
(23:38):
But you know, at the same time, you look at
the turnover of drivers who have been in the academy
and got an over into Formula one, and it's high.
I think it's like there are about six drivers on
the current grid who have been through the Rebel program
at some point. There are quite a lot of those
drivers out there and what they're doing is existful. They do,
(24:01):
in fact find some great talent. At one point it
was as many as twelve out of twenty drivers had
their origin stories kind of infused with Red Bull. So
they are, in fact, you know, able to produce results.
But at the same time, you know, there are a
lot of people that don't like these characters. And I'm
I'm not saying I don't like them either. I just
(24:22):
look at them and I just think I've seen better
humans in my life. I'll just put it that way.
You know, I'm getting the sense that this is such
high pressure with such ego, and so you're gonna get
some pressure having to be released all the time, from
(24:42):
a Helmet to a Christian, to the driver to the
Formula one governing body. So I would think the people
that are best successful in the teams that are best
successful are willing to let some of this ego flaring exist.
So if you're Christian and you've got Helmet and he's
awesome for your team, but he does kind of flare,
sometimes you kind of have to let it happen, I
(25:03):
would think. And often too, they're not the most aware bunch,
and Formula One are well informed. So whereas we might say, hey, Helmet,
that that comment was kind of xenophobic, you know, it
doesn't even register for Christian if he even hears the comment. Right.
You know, the first video I saw of Christian, he
was riding a horse. The second video I saw was
him skeet shooting. You know, these are not this is
(25:24):
not socially progressive, woke sport. And in some ways, I
as a consumer appreciate, like I said as before, that
they're just kind of in this lane bubble and they're
and they're just doing just fine with it. Yeah. I
don't think Christians losing sleep at night over these questions.
Are these issues? Yeah, quick break and we're back. So
(25:47):
so what are you thinking? As we kind of wrap
up the team portion of this two parter, I really
like that Red Bull has a team. I like that
it's two dollars and fifty sense that we can get
it at the bodega down the street, and that brand
has a Formula One team because Mercedes isn't like that.
(26:08):
Christian seems like a lot of coaches I've had that
are mad all the time, but really it's because they're
just not winning. I mean, a really competitive coach is
piste off all the time about something, even if they're
number one, they're mad that practice didn't go well. Today.
They're always piste. So I get it, and I think
(26:28):
some of its stick. I think some of us trying
to get his play, you know, fake it till you
make it. But are they the team for me? I
don't know, and I don't know enough about I need
to know about the drivers and if my senses, Max
rubs people the wrong way? Also, is that right? So
I'm wondering if maybe this team, uh, maybe this team
(26:49):
is a lot of birds of a feather stick together
type thing. But I'm excited to see who is actually
in the car racing. Well, we have got quite an
episode coming for you. Come on. So yeah, So next
next episode, we are continuing on with our journey to
the Red Bull team, and we have got two very
different drivers. We've got a guy who, depending on who
(27:11):
you talked to, is either you know, the next Michael Schumacher,
Lewis Hamilton's type. Other people might say he's one of
the villains, if not the villain of the grid. You're
talking about Max, Yeah, yeah, because he's got the jawline
of doc, he's got the face on there. And then
you have another driver who is really chill, playing second fiddle,
(27:31):
which is a very interesting dynamic. He's kind of a
good guy, the family guy. And uh and yeah, they're
two very different drivers who are kind of stuck together
on this team. I think Red Bull has done an
excellent job branding and marketing themselves from start to finish.
I at first thought this was an odd pairing formula one,
(27:53):
but it is so extreme, it is so high pressure.
The logo of Red Bull are two red Bulls charging
each other, and it makes sense. Totally makes sense. Michael Costa,
you know, Hi, anything you wanted us to add or
to say, Walter, that's a rat, buddy. Do you even
(28:14):
know this dog is here? No? I kept forgetting it
and be like, oh, yeah, there is a tiny creature.
This has been Choosing Size F one, a production of
Sports Illustrated Studios and I Heart Radio. The show was
hosted by Michael Costa and Lily Harp. This episode was
produced by Lily Herman and our senior producer Hi Mi Tao,
(28:36):
who also did the sound design at the Cutting room Studios.
We are recorded by engineer Robot Leary, the second mastering
by Cello Weisblu. Max Miller is the executive producer and
Brennan get just his head of Audio at SI Studios.
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(28:59):
For more podcast us from My Heart Radio, visit the
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Oh m oh, my god, there's a dog. Hello, Hello, Hello,
hello dog. It's Walter. He's shy, he's grumpy. He's only
bit one person and it was a six year old
boy who hit him in the head at a toy star.
So I figured tracks makes sense. I too would hit
a six year old boy in the head, but he
(00:20):
does growl. Go to sleep, buddy, go to sleep. One. Two, Hey,
how's it going? Said? Sound good? All right, I guess
we're all set yo. Hi. So Michael, I'm very excited
to say that I have brought you a Red Bull
for this episode. I could see that, and I'm thankful
for it. All right, it's I guess first and foremost.
Let us uh, let us crack open. All right, So
(00:44):
this is Red Bull with touring. When Red Bull came out,
everyone kind of went, what the ship is that? So
you don't even remember this happening? So this is here
we got ready crack ready. Oh yeah, that was a
little correct. Is this what it sounds like when they
start their car engines? From I Heeart Media and Sports
(01:06):
Illustrated Studios, this is choosing sides one. Wow, Michael, can
you guess who we're talking about today? Red Ball. Sorry,
(01:28):
it's Ferrari's day. Williams, Williams, I love who. You still
don't know what Williams is. You just know Williams comes.
I like their colors, That's true, They're very class. I
like their colors. So maybe that's and maybe what we're
going to find through all of this extensive research by
you and all the other researching producers is that dumb
Michael just wants cool colors, which is why probably how
(01:51):
we all pick a lot of our teams. All right,
So our last two episodes we were all about Mercedes,
you know, the team of hyper efficiency. There this now
actual extension from a luxury car brand. Today we're kind
of going in the opposite direction. So let's talk about
Red Bull. So that was Jenny Gal, prominent f one
reporter for the BBC and other outlets. They are basically
(02:14):
a drinking team because Red Bull gives you wings. Everybody
knows it's a you know, it's a drink. Red Bull
is a is a very different team to Mercedes. Mercedes
is a global automotive brand who were only interested in
selling cars off the back of winning world championships. That's
kind of what they do, whereas Red Bull are there
(02:34):
as a marketing exercise for Dietrict Matter Ships and his
Red Bull Drinks company. Before we get to Red Bull
in Formula one, we have to get a little bit
of a history lesson in Red Bull Dietrich Matter Ships.
Who owns Red Bull um is kind of quite an enigma.
He very rarely turns up to an F one race.
(02:54):
He's not They're kind of cheering on from the sidelines,
like a lot of the owners that we seem of
any sports team. He's very much in the background. He
actually has said he prefers to watch races on TV,
which is the most rich person thing to spend hundreds
of millions of dollars on something and not even be
there in person to see it. Often he's very much
(03:16):
in the background. But it was a marketing exercise first
and foremost for them to get into Formula one. It's
been relatively successful as well. I hear they sell some things.
So I'm going to sound a little bit like I'm
a Harvard NBA student for just like a couple of minutes,
so bear with me. I'm curious to learn about the company.
To be honest with you, I have no fucking clue
(03:38):
how I was introduced to red Bull excellent. So the
company was founded in the form that we know it
inn by this Austrian guy named Diedrich Mattas shits quite
a name. What a surprise, another very rich, old white
guy exactly yeah. Uh. Diedrich is a billionaire, which means
(03:59):
that he has said some controversial things in his life.
More recently, in seen, he said that Austria should close
its borders to refugees and express support for Donald Trump.
This was during Trump's presidency, which obviously makes both of
those things make people feel lots of things about our
(04:20):
dear Dietrich. They don't vitalize, They do not vitalize. Okay,
So moving on to red Bull to Drink. D trip
didat actually create Red Bull to Drink? Red Bull to
Drink was actually created in the mid nineteen seventies by
a guy named Chilea Vedia. He has this idea because
he comes from a farming family that he wants to
(04:42):
create something that gives a little extra pep when folks
are feeling tired. And he really wanted to create something
for the working class, for farmers, for bus drivers, for
taxi drivers. Really a man of the people. This Chileo,
and he creates a drink called creating Dang. In Thailand,
it means red bull, so he comes up with the
(05:03):
idea of red Bull. He puts it in medicine looking bottles,
so it looks like almost a prescription. But even though
it's a thing you can just buy at the store.
And yeah, what really separated it from other kind of
drinks in general at the time was that it was
really catering towards a working class market. That was sort
of his his whole thing. Ud Trick on a business
(05:24):
trip discovers this drink and he has it when he's
really tired and just trying to fly home or do whatever,
and he thinks it's genius. He wants to bring it
over to the West because he thinks there's a huge market.
And keep in mind, by this time and you know,
the seventies and eighties, there's there's not really an energy
drink market. That's not really a thing that you create
(05:45):
that and it was really bad coffee exactly. Yeah. The
other thing he did when he brought it over to
the West is he tweaked to the formula so there
is more sugar. There's actually thirty three percent more caffeine
in like this original European version and the version that
we see today in the States. Then the original drink.
He also adds carbonation to it, which was new, so
(06:05):
it really seems yet less and less like a medicinal
thing and more like what we see today. He added
the new you know, packaging and the logo and all
of this stuff. Just for a slight economic detour. Red
Bull does still hold thirty eight percent of the market
share of energy drinks, so it's the most popular energy
drink on the planet and it has sold over seventy
(06:25):
five billion cans since. What a success story. My God,
does fascinate me that that that we think as humans
are were so stimulated in life as it is. And
this of course makes sense because what we really need
is a drink to calm us down, but instead the
market wants a drink that keeps us going. We're always
(06:47):
on that hamster wheel of life and I'm drinking it
right now. Yeah. So the other big thing that Dietrich
brings to the table is he's a big, long time
I'm you know, lifelong sports fan. He loves sports. He's
trying to figure out how to market this drink in
a brand new space. People don't drink energy drinks, so
(07:10):
so what does he do? He has this great idea
that their biggest tactic is going to be aligning the
company with extreme sports and extreme physical and athletic feats.
All right, stand up on the exterior step, keep your
head down and going to an angel will take care. Yet,
they sponsored a daredevil named Felix bomb Gardner who went
(07:31):
skydiving from space. Yeah, it was that whole big thing.
They put them up in this little capsule twenty miles
above earth and then he free fell and then parachuted.
Can anybody understand? You see if you can get a
respiratory count? And Red Bull was everywhere. It was absolutely ever.
(07:52):
They did films on it, they had all sorts of promo.
It was truly everywhere. They also have sponsored humorous bass jumpers,
so they'll say, hey, jump out of this high thing
and then fly through this tiny crack in a cliff
and hopefully you don't die, because that would be really
bad for our stunt. Uh. They have had time. They
(08:13):
had a stunt where they had pilot's attempt to switch
planes midair. They also had a guy break the world
record in snowmobile jumping, that's you name it. If it's
an extreme sport or just kind of an absurd feat,
red Bull probably is sponsoring it or at least has
(08:34):
a hand in it. The list goes on and on
with red Bull. What is red Bull going for here? Like,
what is the what is this branding? But I guess
in the market filled with drink, you've got to break
through somehow, you gotta get eyeballs on you, and they
have done that. Yeah, So the big question is how
(08:55):
does Red Bull end up owning teams on the Formula
One grid and becoming this big successful teams. So it
is similar to how Mercedes was kind of supplying things
to teams that were already on the grid long before
they themselves joined. Red Bull was a sponsor before they
joined in the mid two thousand's and they decided to
start looking into a team and at the end of
(09:18):
the two thousand four season they purchased an F one
team at the time it was Jaguar and start building
it up for the two thousand five season. We'll get
into more of the team history after this break. We've
got to sell some ads. Remember how we talked about
with Mercedes, how they would kind of supply their their
various stuff to other teams. That's what basically a Red
(09:39):
Bull has to do is buy all these different car parts,
you know, the power unit, the chassis, all this stuff
from other manufacturers to kind of build up this this car.
Uh and they do. You know, like most teams, it
takes a little while to get going, but they really
hit their strides starting in season and they proceed to
(10:00):
in four World championships, both Constructor and Driver's Championships for
realiant brilliant drive. If you joined the Great Yea Bowing
before the Bull, Sebastian Fetal World Champion in two thousand
(10:20):
and ten, eleven, twelve, and now thirteen Red Bull the
Constructors Championship is coming their way as well. Johnny McLaren
and Ferrari is the only constructors to win four consecutive
world titles. So obviously, I'm sure you're wondering, how does
a team that's just a couple of years into the
sports suddenly win four world championships. Yeah, I mean, isn't
(10:42):
that what everybody wants to do? But it's that's very
difficult exactly. Again, speaking to the culture, they were very
good at poaching people, and one of the people they
poached was this genius engineer named Adrian Newey. You hear
Nui's name kind of come up a lot, especially amongst
kind of like tech nerds who love the technical aspects
of one. So Adrian Newey he has basically want or created,
(11:07):
you know, world championship winning cars for multiple teams over
the years, whether it's Williams, McLaren, Red Bull, you name it,
he's he's somehow involved. His big thing is he's great
at aerodynamics and he is great at going into the
regulations and figure out every loophole, every way to skirt
around what's been assigned for for the cars. He's a
(11:31):
real nerd in that way. He's talked about loving reading
the regulation book and reading through the rules and then
he finds kind of funky, weird ways to to get
around that. So that's kind of his deal and Red Bull,
you know, kind of snatched him up and and it
really helped them sort of in the end of that era,
figure out what was going to work best for them.
So so that that's kind of some of Red Bulls
(11:53):
secret sauce or special sauce if you will, is Adrian
Newey Uh, it does seem like the tech side are
the other stars, but you don't see them plastered on
the cans and the and the and the TV as
much well within within F one. And I will say that,
unlike Mercedes, which has been truly dominant for you know,
(12:15):
most of those eight years that they were, they were
really in it to win it and winning everything, Red
Bull is a little bit touch and go. So actually
two of these four championships they win by mere points.
I'm talking two to four points for SEB over. The
second place finisher in both cases was this guy Fernando Alonso,
who we will also talk about uh this season. And
I think what's also important to note with SEB and
(12:36):
with with Red Bullies, they were not quiet about their wins. Right.
So seb for instance, when he won one of the
World championships, finishes up the race and starts doing donuts
in his F one car, I wonder how much that
will cost him it finds, but it's probably worth it.
And that's not common in Formula one because NASCAR, that's
all day long, you have teams do stuff with their cars,
(12:59):
but Red Bull take it to another level. So they
for instance, they had two cars they fitted them with
these like pieces on the front to make them quote
unquote play rugby against each other so you can see
the two cars you've got. They put like special like
chains on the tires and drove across the tundra basically. Uh.
(13:22):
And then they also, yeah, like do kinds of zero
gravity stuff with their cars, right, And everything is well documented,
of course, well photographed, well posted. I mean, you know,
it's marketing. Red Bull has this branding of extreme. You're
not going to see Mercedes playing rugby with its car, right,
(13:43):
So I kind of get what they're going for. And uh,
and it definitely is a specific attitude. As a Formula
one team. I find them very aggressive. So that's Formula
one journalist Tony Cowen Brown when Bull follow this narrative
that men is this a boys club and these are men,
real men, and they don't cry and they scream and
they shout, which I'm like, that's so archaic to me
(14:04):
that it's just it's just not the way the world
is heading. But that's not to say that's bad. Some
people actually love that that sort of mentality of being
vious and unstoppable and unapologetic and you know, flipping table
great go for it. So that that's that's sort of
to paint a picture of how Red Bulls F one
team kind of you know, distinguishes itself. So, uh, red
(14:25):
Bulls on top of the world, you know, coming out
of as we know from our Mercedes episodes, there is
then a regulation shift that begins in Unfortunately for Red Bull,
Mercedes begins to really soar. They really hit their stride
after a couple of years of just getting up to
speed and Red Bulls starts to have some issues with consistency.
They also have issues with driver pairings and uh and
(14:48):
and it all just becomes a little bit rough for
for many years. Alright. So I think the most important
thing about Red Bull as a team is the culture there.
It's all about pressure, It's all about performing on the spot.
It's all about you either swim or you sink. So
my name is I'll Discover Auscas and I basically just
cover the world the Formula one Red Bull. They're a
(15:09):
very cut through team, no doubt about it. But that
competitive edge is ultimately what drives the entire team, you know,
That's what kind of motivates the guys around them. They
want to be younger, they want to be cooler, They
want to be hip, they want to have loud music
playing in the garage, they want to be the young
guns of F one. Yeah, it's a very different team
to Mercedes because when it comes to Mercedes, it's all
about working together and kind of really doing things by
(15:31):
the book, if that makes sense. Whilst with Red Bull
they're a bit more of a wild card. But that's
just what kind of makes them special. It's almost like
a pressure cooker within the pressure cooker of Formula one
as an outsider, and this is what perspective is helpful
because now maybe after seeing a little bit about the
Red Bull team, I have a different opinion about the
Mercedes team. But Red Bull doesn't to me, doesn't exude class,
(15:58):
maybe hyper masculine. We're happy to talk shipped to you
when an L costs type vibe. Not sure if that's accurate,
but that's my first takeaway on it. They're definitely I
would say a little bit grittier in terms of personality,
but I mean a red Bull. How much how much
does each Red Bull cost? I think these were one
like three dollars to fifty like that, and how much
(16:19):
of the Mercedes cost so it's like it does. It
might come down to that that that Red Bull does
need to be more power to the people type vibe,
which again is very funny considering its origin story. But
sure that De Trick loves loves the people, so I
think nothing better kind of exudes this whole pressure cooker
(16:42):
within a pressure cooker mentality at Red Bull than their
young driver program. They've always been very invested in young drivers.
They other teams, to be honest, most big teams like
Ferrari Mercedes, they don't just give a young driver, you know,
the keys to the kingdom and potentially a ce A
winning team unless they have a couple of years of
experience or even more in some cases. Red Bull is
(17:03):
not like that. They do not mind kind of throwing
a spanner into the works and giving a very young driver,
you know, a chance to win races, and that's kind
of been their philosophy. However, if that young driver doesn't perform,
there's been you know, the arm around the shoulder approach
does not last very long and they get cut, they
will sponsor a ton of young drivers, obviously almost entirely men, uh,
(17:25):
and they will give them the machinery so they'll say, hey,
we'll put you in a car, your Red Bull car
sponsored by Red Bull whatever, And that sounds really great,
right if you're like fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, your Red Bull
wants to sponsor you're you know, you're you're a little unproven,
but they're they're willing to give you a chance. Uh.
The big problem is that Red Bull also has no
problem dumping drivers very quickly, so they throw you in
(17:46):
a seat. If you're not doing well, within a couple
of races or a season, you're out of there. They're
known notoriously known for kind of signing people very quickly
and dropping them just as quickly. I think for that
of teams, they really try to push that the drivers
worked together as best as they can to get the
most points for the team. This is Sarah Levinson and
motorsports comms expert and F one super fan. Red Bull
(18:10):
is unique in which they are definitely more driven by
driver first team second. There has definitely always been a
history of really strong rivalry within the team. In the
past five years, there has been really one main driver,
which is Max for step In, and a myriad of
(18:30):
second drivers that they're kind of shifting in to see
who competes best alongside Max, but also who doesn't get
in his way. A lot of these those second drivers
for Red Bull, they only last a few months before
they're replaced. They know that they get one shot, one chance,
and if they don't perform immediately, then they don't get
to keep that shot. They don't need to keep that chance. Obviously,
(18:53):
that can create a lot of chaos and just a
lot of rivalry within the team for certain seats and
and also questions over who gets what. Wow. Okay. The
flip side of this is because they have so many
people and in and out or whatever is that they
(19:15):
do in fact find some great talent and many drivers
on the grid sometimes. I think at one point it
was as many as twelve out of twenty drivers had
their origin stories kind of infused with Red Bull. So
they are, in fact, you know, able to produce results.
But it's not because they mentor one kid at a
time or something. Okay, it kind of comes with pros
and cons uh, And we'll talk about two is the
(19:36):
issue of um some of the leadership is pretty mouthy
about what's going on with their drivers and and their
their Their leadership has no problem saying when they've got
an issue with their own drivers, which also is probably
not great for the psyche of young athletes, as you
can probably attest. Yeah, who's running the show at red Bull?
Who's the toto at Red Bull? And I'm sure he
would love to be described that way. I'm sure Christian
(19:59):
is going to just completely melt into a puddle comparison
through the podcast listening device, exactly exactly. So there's two
names that will typically pop up in F one media
when it comes to Red Bull. Unfortunately it's not Adrian Newey,
who is your high favorite person. Uh So the two
names are going to be Christian Horner. He is the
(20:20):
team principal, so he's number one. And the second name
we're going to hear a lot is Helmett Marco, who
is a former racing driver himself. He's an official advisor
to the team and he also runs their young driver's program,
so he's really in charge of finding the talent and
cultivating the talent and often also dumping the talent when
they are not doing well. Both are known for quite
(20:40):
a bit of ship stirring. But anyway, so let's start
with Christian. He's definitely one of the younger team principles
and was much younger when he first came on as
Red Bulls team principal. He's been there from pretty much
the beginning, how badly mixed things up? Of it with
a little bit of spice. J just spice to the exact.
A fun fact about him, He's married to Jerry how Well,
who many Gen xers and millennials will known as Ginger
(21:04):
Spice of the Spice Girls. You had teased that last time?
Check come Jerry Honah. From what I can see a Christian.
He he doesn't shy away from a camera, definitely does
not and always puts his own spin on things. Sure,
I think he's needs to see a psychiatrist personally. But
(21:25):
if you weren't an F one team boss, what would
you be? Um? I wanted to be a stunt driver
when I was younger, So um, maybe a bit of
modeling as well. You know, I don't need to go
to dinner with Toto. You know, I don't need to
kiss his ass or anything like that. You know what
it means in Mexico, You know what it means big.
There are people who really do like Christians whole stick,
(21:45):
and there are people who really don't. He did recently
say when asked about the rise and popularity of F one,
he said, oh, yes, you know, young girls are really
loving the sport for all of the you know, the
hot drivers is paraphrasing, but that was the sentiment, and
that did not go over well with a certain subset
of Formula one fans. What's an odd thing to say?
Which subset didn't like that? In a world of Christian horners,
(22:06):
BA Lewis Hamilton's that's Christian. He kind of stinks to
me of do as I say, not as I do.
Kind of stinks of like, hey, I I I placed last,
but here's what you have to do to place first.
That's why I've had some of these coaches or whatever
you call it. Keep in mind, I've known this guy
for six minutes. Yeah, that's Christian and Christians right hand
(22:30):
man Helmon Marco. Helmont Marco was a fantastic driver back
in the day. He raced Formula one. He won the
twenty four of lament Rice, one of the most difficult
races in the world, and he managed to still win that.
And now he manages the talent through Ripple and that's
fine because obviously he sort of knows the sport and
(22:53):
knows talent when he sees it. First and last name
Josh Rible and can you give me sort of your
who you are in the world of Formula one and motorsports? Jeez,
I guess um probably would proclaim myself as the informative
jester of Formula one YouTube, presenting things in a way
that is colloquial and somewhat demented at times. So Helmet
(23:18):
definitely is known for more than a few controversial statements.
A good afternoon with Helmett Marco is for him to
call you up after the races say that you're a
waste of life. And that's how he tends to motivate
his drivers. He's um, he's like that, He's he's an US.
(23:38):
But you know, at the same time, you look at
the turnover of drivers who have been in the academy
and got an over into Formula one, and it's high.
I think it's like there are about six drivers on
the current grid who have been through the Rebel program
at some point. There are quite a lot of those
drivers out there and what they're doing is existful. They do,
(24:01):
in fact find some great talent. At one point it
was as many as twelve out of twenty drivers had
their origin stories kind of infused with Red Bull. So
they are, in fact, you know, able to produce results.
But at the same time, you know, there are a
lot of people that don't like these characters. And I'm
I'm not saying I don't like them either. I just
(24:22):
look at them and I just think I've seen better
humans in my life. I'll just put it that way.
You know, I'm getting the sense that this is such
high pressure with such ego, and so you're gonna get
some pressure having to be released all the time, from
(24:42):
a Helmet to a Christian, to the driver to the
Formula one governing body. So I would think the people
that are best successful in the teams that are best
successful are willing to let some of this ego flaring exist.
So if you're Christian and you've got Helmet and he's
awesome for your team, but he does kind of flare,
sometimes you kind of have to let it happen, I
(25:03):
would think. And often too, they're not the most aware bunch,
and Formula One are well informed. So whereas we might say, hey, Helmet,
that that comment was kind of xenophobic, you know, it
doesn't even register for Christian if he even hears the comment. Right.
You know, the first video I saw of Christian, he
was riding a horse. The second video I saw was
him skeet shooting. You know, these are not this is
(25:24):
not socially progressive, woke sport. And in some ways, I
as a consumer appreciate, like I said as before, that
they're just kind of in this lane bubble and they're
and they're just doing just fine with it. Yeah. I
don't think Christians losing sleep at night over these questions.
Are these issues? Yeah, quick break and we're back. So
(25:47):
so what are you thinking? As we kind of wrap
up the team portion of this two parter, I really
like that Red Bull has a team. I like that
it's two dollars and fifty sense that we can get
it at the bodega down the street, and that brand
has a Formula One team because Mercedes isn't like that.
(26:08):
Christian seems like a lot of coaches I've had that
are mad all the time, but really it's because they're
just not winning. I mean, a really competitive coach is
piste off all the time about something, even if they're
number one, they're mad that practice didn't go well. Today.
They're always piste. So I get it, and I think
(26:28):
some of its stick. I think some of us trying
to get his play, you know, fake it till you
make it. But are they the team for me? I
don't know, and I don't know enough about I need
to know about the drivers and if my senses, Max
rubs people the wrong way? Also, is that right? So
I'm wondering if maybe this team, uh, maybe this team
(26:49):
is a lot of birds of a feather stick together
type thing. But I'm excited to see who is actually
in the car racing. Well, we have got quite an
episode coming for you. Come on. So yeah, So next
next episode, we are continuing on with our journey to
the Red Bull team, and we have got two very
different drivers. We've got a guy who, depending on who
(27:11):
you talked to, is either you know, the next Michael Schumacher,
Lewis Hamilton's type. Other people might say he's one of
the villains, if not the villain of the grid. You're
talking about Max, Yeah, yeah, because he's got the jawline
of doc, he's got the face on there. And then
you have another driver who is really chill, playing second fiddle,
(27:31):
which is a very interesting dynamic. He's kind of a
good guy, the family guy. And uh and yeah, they're
two very different drivers who are kind of stuck together
on this team. I think Red Bull has done an
excellent job branding and marketing themselves from start to finish.
I at first thought this was an odd pairing formula one,
(27:53):
but it is so extreme, it is so high pressure.
The logo of Red Bull are two red Bulls charging
each other, and it makes sense. Totally makes sense. Michael Costa,
you know, Hi, anything you wanted us to add or
to say, Walter, that's a rat, buddy. Do you even
(28:14):
know this dog is here? No? I kept forgetting it
and be like, oh, yeah, there is a tiny creature.
This has been Choosing Size F one, a production of
Sports Illustrated Studios and I Heart Radio. The show was
hosted by Michael Costa and Lily Harp. This episode was
produced by Lily Herman and our senior producer Hi Mi Tao,
(28:36):
who also did the sound design at the Cutting room Studios.
We are recorded by engineer Robot Leary, the second mastering
by Cello Weisblu. Max Miller is the executive producer and
Brennan get just his head of Audio at SI Studios.
At I Heart Radio, Sean Titone is our executive producer.
(28:59):
For more podcast us from My Heart Radio, visit the
I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts, and don't forget to rate us and tell
your friends. It'll mean a lot. H
Host
Michael Kosta
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Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.